Who had more help in their career: LeBron James or Michael Jordan? | NBA | UNDISPUTED
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ค. 2018
- Skip Bayless and Shannon Sharpe talk NBA. Hear their thoughts on LeBron James and Michael Jordan. Which star had more help?
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About Skip and Shannon: UNDISPUTED:
UNDISPUTED is a daily two-and-a-half hour sports debate show starring Skip Bayless and Shannon Sharpe. Every day, Skip and Shannon will give their unfiltered, incisive, passionate opinions on the biggest sports topics of the day.
Who had more help in their career: LeBron James or Michael Jordan? | NBA | UNDISPUTED
• Who had more help in t...
Skip and Shannon: UNDISPUTED
/ undisputedonfs1 - กีฬา
Will LeBron lead the Cavs to the finals?
Yes he will make the finals. Lebron has taken his game to another level. The way he's playing it highly possible that he win his 4th ring this year.
Yes he will take the Cleveland Cavaliers to the NBA finals LeBron James is mvp
it's going to be tuff , Boston is not playing and they look hungry to. and btw Jordan had way more help than LeBron ever had.
Yes because no one on the east could stop him...
Yes and then lose in 6 to the warriors, there's jus not enough consistent help to beat the warriors
Steve Kerr has had the most help in NBA history
Ying Li bruh.. swea. Even as a coach
He is the common denominator in all instances... he might be the reason why all those guys had success 😂
@@sandernista6499 He's been known for clutch shots too. He's like a Kyrie Irving in a Mario Chalmers body
Agree. Both as player and coach. Blessed white boy Steve!
Or robert horry
Skip: Jordan had no help, he carried the bulls
Also Skip: The Bulls were loaded, easily the best team of all time
The term you're looking for is "role players".
Take Dennis Rodman for example. The man was one of the greatest rebounders and hustle players of all time. He was a hall of famer. Yet only average 7 Ppg for a career. He also never averaged even 1 block per game or one steal per game for a season his entire career. Yet was considered an elite defender, and won defensive player of the year 2 times, because he could get in the oppositions head and was good at taking charges. His impact on games could not be measured by stats alone. That is why the Bulls are still considered one of the best teams to ever do it.
On the defensive side the Bulls teams were amazing. On the offensive end they basically had Jordan and Pippen with role players. A guy like Dennis' main role on the offensive end was to grab offensive rebounds.
2 face lol
Dude ✋ Stop
Lebron James carried numerous team's he's been on now he can play how he want for real lebron Lakers
Miami Heat and Lakers really look at that roster and you will know who had more help..
before every argument they both always say "okay hold on, help me out here" 😂😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😭💀
🤣🤣😂😂😂
Skip lies when he says that no player was an all star before they joined Jordan because Rodman was in 1990.
Cowardly Lions
Only reason Pippen wasn’t one is because he was injured. He had played 14 games before the voting and STILL came in 3rd.
@Dats a paddlin In 92-93 with Jordan, Pippen averaged 18.6 ppg and in 93-94 without Jordan, Pippen increased his ppg a whopping 3.4 ppg to 22 ppg. Yea, it looks like Jordan was a ball hog lmao.
Exposed!!! 😂🤣😂🤣
@Dats a paddlin bj was never an all-star and LBJ played with players batter than Pippen namely Wade and Kyrie
Kevin Jackson lebron goat
Skip is teaching me how to listen to my wife as she yells at me: "mm..hmm...yeah...hm..ok..yep...mm.."
😂😂😂
Lmfao 🤣😂🤣
I love it
'....mmhm interesting...'
lmao
Sports debate shows are a great example of how you can find or twist statistics to create any narrative.
Absolutely. But, it shows that stats aren't everything. It's not all about analytics. You have to produce. You have to win. You cant just build up amazing stats and get the same level of appreciation. That's not a slight at any particular player. But, I think the media makes analytics the entire arguement sometimes. When it shouldn't be.
Well said
CDH Imagine how much politicians twist statistics to fit their narrative
Pretty much Skip's career. Reduce the argument down to a single data point and make it everything. He's worthless.
@@JonSmith-hk1bq 💯 FACTS
I like how Shannon weighs in on Rodman for winning 2 DPOY awards BEFORE joining Jordan. I wonder if he keeps the same energy about the 3 time DPOY Dwight Howard who was part of Lebron's 2020 championship team
I think Rodman did more on the bulls than Howard did for the lakers tho.
@@jeremykrause153 probably. But my point is, there’s no reason to mention their past achievements in a “who had more help” debate. It’s what they did during their years with Jordan/LeBron that matters.
@@loukaspappas8476 I agree
Fun fact. This just popped up on my recommendations nearly 3 years later in 2021.. AND I SWEAR TO GOD, at first I thought it was a 2021 topic. BECAUSE THEY ARE OBSESSED WITH TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING DAILY LOL
Recommended to me in 2024. I’ll take this back over what we have now
Don't let Skip fool you, Scottie got hurt and only played 44 games in 98. That's why he didn't make the all star team
exactly. skip and shannon talk about things with no regard for context
MJ never had a teammate avg more than 22 points in his career and hes won a title with his 2th best player avg 12 points a game
@@tyronemonsanto3090 who? scottie pippen's points were only diminished because he played next to an all time great scorer. and don't even talk about 94-95. it looked like scottie held back a little, not playing to his fullest. pippen was the 4th selected player for the dream team, the previous being mj, bird and magic. the man almost became one of the few in history to ever win dpoy and mvp together. he was 3rd and 4th in 94 and 7th and 2nd in 95
@@knicks8099 Pippen was great with MJ and After MJ left in 98 he never again made in All star selection and Wade won a ring without Lebron and Bosh was an all star before he Join Lebron in Miami too
@@knicks8099 Bron played with 14 all stars and MJ played with 6 all star
Its funny how most of these MJ fans underrate Scottie so much.
James Burgess and it hurts me as a Bulls fan who had Scottie as my fave player..nobody wanna respect how good he was.
James Burgess it's funny how bronsexuals think pippen was that dude. When he wasn't, pippen couldn't shoot and couldn't score in the clutch. He went to central Arkansas lol
It’s funny how LeBron fans overrate Scottie so much. Jordan made Pippen look like one of the all time greats. Pippen only averaged 20 points or more twice in his career with Jordan. When LeBron has that for his best teammate people act like LeBron has no help.
Scottie better than Kobe....
When MJ left the bulls they went from a 57 win team to a 55 win team. When LeBron left Miami they didn't make the playoffs. Anyone who would take the Miami team over the 95 Bulls is crazy. You're talking about 72 win team with Pippen and Rodman.
Jordan was surrounded by great players because he made his teammates better. Look at Pippen when he first entered the league vs Pippen when the Bulls won their second championship. Scottie Pippen deserves all the respect in the world as an NBA legend, but don't tell me he didn't become a better player by being alongside Jordan.
Jordan didn't make anybody better. If he did, then how
This debate didn't age well
Lebron James had way more help than MJ Uncle shannon
Lmao you mad bruh?
@@shubhamkumarmishra3942 how is he mad?
Explain why LeBron has more help ? because *"he played with more all stars"* right ? what a dumb take, awards are media voted, a player's on court production, impact, physical abilites on court are what they actually are without an award, an award does not change what the player did or caused on the court.
Seems like this kid was born yesterday. Try watching some other sport coz basketball aint for u
LeBron needs the help because 1 he's getting old and 2 there are other super teams in the league so for him to actually have a chance to win he has to get help
I love Jordan but don’t disrespect Pippen, he is an amazing player
Orlando Z88 I’m get’n sick of that $h!t, was second in MVP the year Jordan left
Cashflo Digital Sports Network - CDSN He was 3rd... The same way y’all Lebron fans disrespect Wade (who was better than Pippen)... Disrespect Kyrie who averaged damn near 30 in back to back finals... Disrespect Bosh, Ray Allen, and Love.... Stop it.. Pippen is a top 50 player of al time and a HOF but only because Jordan made him that... He was trash when he first came to the Bulls and wouldn’t have been a HOF and top 50 player without Jordan... Wade was already a HOF and established player without Lebron
MINK FACTS!!! Wade proved he could win without LeBron. Pippen couldn’t win without MJ at all.
Bruce Rivers Facts Wade was a finals mvp, and a NBA champion way without Lebron.. Pippen isn’t winning a ring without Jordan
MINK 💯
scottie pippen wasnt an allstar in 98 because he was injured and only played 44 games and didnt start his season until january... the allstar game was in Febuary. He played 14 games before the allstar game. He was still third in voting among forwards with 475000 votes
Rayray Schnapps Scottie had two seasons averaged 20 ppg Lol
@@JohnConroy. lebron durant curry ad harden giannis kawhi kyrie embid westbrook cousins lillard... etc etc
Bump N Dump I know you didn’t seriously type “Draymond is probably top 10 or 15” smh but I do see and agree with your point
ufster81 wanna know how good Dwayne Wade was without Lebron ? Won finals mvp averaging 33 ppg Lol
Benjamin Franklin this was before lebron got there wtf. 😭 After bron left wat happened to dwade?
LeBron
- Wade
- Bosh
- Allen
- Kyrie
- Love
- AD
- Westbrook
Jordan
- Pippen
- Rodman
2013 nba finals:
Game 7: Chris Bosh, Ray Allen 0 points
2014 nba finals:
Dwayne Wade = 15 ppg 43 FG% 33 3P%
Chris Bosh = 14 ppg 54 FG% 38 3P%
2015 nba finals:
Kyrie played one game
Kevin Love stats: N/A
2016 nba finals:
Kevin Love in game 2: 5 points 28 FG% 25 3P% in 20 mins, had a head concussion and missed game 3, his final averages: 8.5 ppg 36 FG% 26 3P%
2017 nba finals:
Kevin Love in game 3: 9 points 11 FG% 14 3P%
Kyrie Irving in game 3: 0 points in the last 5:29 minutes of the game
Kyrie Irving in the 4th quarter of game 5: 0 points 0 FG%
LOL
@@dynamic6645
I wish I had the ability to pick and choose like this
@@dynamic6645where’s James’ stats? And those stats aren’t indicative of the actual players. They just weren’t good enough when it was time to be good enough.
The thing with Jordan was that he did make a lot of those players better. He was super strict with everyone on the team, as much as he was on himself, and the players trained like they were maniacs because Jordan was a real psycho, breathing down their necks. Of course, a few of the players didn't need that motivation, they were already super tough and played hard. But Dennis Rodman, and Scottie Pippen, Steve Kerr, they all were whipped by jordan.
And Lebron never pushed any of his teammates. He either had them traded away or he left.
@@gdiggedy9 Good luck trying to push Love and Irving, Jordan would have put them both in the insane asylum.
How is this even a debate? Dude literally left a team to join a super team and still lost.
How is this even a debate - Lebron left a team that was a ONE seed with him and then became a LAST seed without him, and when Jordan left his team they won 50+ games and almost made it back to the finals SMH
JDawOfficial You act like bron won a championship with that Cavs team. If you compare Bron's championship team to that team then bron had more help. Twisting the narrative to fit because at that point that team had already won 3 back to back titles of course they were better than the 06 07 Cavs guy. Your rebuttal is invalid.
I'm not acting like they won a championship with that team?? What are you even talking about? Just putting words in my mouth. Not twisting the narrative - HE LEFT A ONE SEED AND THEY BECAME A LAST SEED because that team sucked - a team he played on for 7 years, not one, that he somehow dragged to a finals. And you are the one "twisting the narrative" - yeah they had won 3 straight.. because of how much help MJ had which was clear after he left. What happened to the Miami team that Lebron left that had gone to 4 straight finals? Answer me that? Oh yeah, they sucked without him. You're whole position is invalid. Cop an L
JDawOfficial he dumb asl they had shaq and yung wade come on now and bosh wasn’t even on the team bring Came and they got bosh from raptors dwade was by hisself so is y’all forgetting tht too?
Not too mention he still carried the HEAT WHEN HE GOT THERE ALSO
Pippen became good with Jordan. Wade was already good
KYRIE BECAME GOOD WHEN LBJ CAME BACK & HE HELPED HIM BECOME AN ALLSTAR!
MJ lost in the first round 3 times in a row before pippin came
Thassa Flex pippen wasn’t an all star the moment he came in. It took a couple years . MJ molded him. MJ is the goat still regardless
Thassa Flex LeBron couldn’t make the playoffs until Larry Hughes showed up
DEE~LYTE hope. He was already good. Lebron wouldn’t have came back if not. He was already averaging 20 and had the most buzzer beaters. You can’t name any star that played better with lebron.
Michael Jordan never played with another player who demanded a double team, that pretty ends this debate.
Not really
People always talk about how Jordan's team was loaded and how he always had the best players. When MJ came out of retirement the Bulls record was 34-31, they won 13 of their next 17 regular-season games to finish 47-35. The following year they went 72-10... Who really elevated that team... because it wasn't Pippen.
Except the fact that the bulls also added dennis rodman.
@@dynamic6645 expect the fact the won 3 before he got theee
@@amadoubah91760 before pippen 🤷🏾♂️ pippen lead them ecsf game 7 came 2 mvp when jordan was force out the league
Bill Cartwright, Luc longely, Bill Wennington ect...These are the guys Jordan had back when the NBA was a CENTER dominated league. Against guys like David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Alonzo Morning, Shaquille Oneal, Patrick Ewing, Kareem Abdul Jabar, Rick Smits...need i go on?
Come on. These were different era's. Jordan performed when hand-checking and centers were critical and Jordan never had ONE great one.
Open Up their Eyes for me with some Common Sense Plz ... I Thank You
The bulls other than mj pip, wouldn't be able to get on an nba floor. Hands down lebron has had more help. Jordan never jumped ship or ever recruited players. Worst player bron ever had I'm thinking deliadova, but he better than...Dickie simpkins member him....off topic that's why I think warriors would beat the bulls. Bulls would barely beat the Cavs. Only because of Jordan's greatness.
Ragen Storm now put four of those guys together and that’s who lebrons playing against
@oj lott He had Orlando Woolridge back then he's a decent center.
Michael Jordan averaged 28 points in his rookie year bruh
pramey tripathi with checks
He was literally playing against mail men and truck drivers😂 let’s be real on his level of competition
@@dahc0023 So a prime Larry Bird was a mail man? Yeah, you don't know basketball 🤣🤣🤣
@@dahc0023 kids today like karl malone is a plumber ahhahhahah like they are there when had played
Jon155 you literally named one player lmao. Any person with half a brain could see how the game has evolved from the late 80s early 90s MJ was one in like less than 10 people with decent agility and athleticism
I got to say these two guys are good together. Thanks for a wonderful show. Keep up the good work!
Lmao, Shannon cant belive what hes talking about himself 😂😂
Lbj monopolized the East with Wade who would of been Finals MVP 2011 if they won add Bosh. AD, Love and Irving yo it's not even close whose had more help
Skip is not good at arguing with Shannon. When Shannon said: "of all all stars that have played with LeBron, name one who had better defense than Scottie Pippen." Well, the same argument could be done for the opposite side of the court, of all all stars that played with MJ name one better at scoring than DWade and Kyrie!
Chris Faux- Skip doesn't even have to say anything. Lebron played with way more all stars and we know Shannon loves to shine Lebron's scepter. Bronsexuals don't want to bring up the stat sheets.
scoring is only one facet of the game . jordan did the scoring while teammates did the rest so you can say lebron had more jobs to do . one could make the argument that jordan teammates did more him than james teammates did. Lebron lead in all major statistical categories . now imagine if all lebron had to do was score wouldn't that be alot easier
ryanr20091, Lebron is BARELY a better rebounder and getting assist than MJ or Kobe- so much doing for so much more.
Lebron doesn't know how to play with others. Doesn't know how to memorize plays or play without the ball. Lebron is great with guys that can space the floor. Imagine him without those sharp shooters? I remember the 2007 finals.
EmperorJBO bringing up Kobe means you’re argument is null and void. Kobes not even a top 10 player.
JBerta kobe is better than lebron. Thats why USA team begged kobe to save them from losing to Spain and Argentina lol
Soo now Shannon is knocking Jordan for staying with his team.. Than LeBron for bouncing team to team..
Cue Doyle mike went to Washington
@@sigmundsanders8064.. He was part owner of the team.. Him playing was about money.. Reason number one is here donated his salary from playing to the families of 9/11 victims.. Number 2 Washington wasn't selling it any games.. What better way to fill the seat than having Micheal freaking Jordan on your team?? Then he needed to groom his young team.. And from ages 38 - 40 put up 20pts 6rebs 6ast.. #GOAT
Cue Doyle there was no reason for Jordan to live his team tho🤦🏾♂️ he had great and healthy players
@AgooD Avgguy AgooD Avgguy all this sentences you wrote fell short and invalid because of one thing MJ left they didn't win any rings in 1994&1995 the GOAT returned they won another 3peat yeah kiddo your HOF with their GOAT couch phil Jackson FAILED to win Sh*t without MJ defeat that kiddo.
@AgooD Avgguy ur ignorance is laughable #FACTS smfh. U said that the OWNER brought the best?!!!!! 🤫😱🤣😂. Reinsdorf gave control of all basketball decisions to Krause. He's been documented SEVERAL times as saying that. Krause was NOTORIOUS for being cheap. Phil Jackson was a ROOKIE head coach before coaching CHI, he took over for Doug Collins. U mentioned organizations win chips but how many chips has CHI won since MJ left with Krause? 0! The triangle was successful because of MJ & players like MJ, see Kobe Bryant. It's about space, angles & ball movement. U know NOTHING ABOUT NBA BASKETBALL
Don’t forget about coaching staff. Phil Jackson was who made Jordan so dominant when he introduced the triangle offense
Statistically no, Jordan's stats was far better with Doug Collins. In terms of winning yes, but remember it was Jordan who made the plays not Phil.
@@alfarouqaminufor3892 right! Phil made them a team but Michael was most dominant in the late 80s under Collins!
@@samuelgustafsson2322 most dominant yes but they were going nowhere
you forget why its called triangle offense to make way for jordan doing 1 on 1. thats how dominant he is. triangle came from doug collins. not jackson and jordan.
Jordans most dominant individual years were pre phil jackson! The triangle actually made jordan less dominant but the team became better! He learned to be a better team player through Phil and the triangle! Its partly Lebron fault that he doent have great coaches and that he hops grom teams to teams to better his chances for winning a chip! Plus dont act like everywhere LeBron goes his teams have always been great and have always catered to his playstyle! Plus you really cant really build around LeBron on the long term as he has the mentality to go to another team as he sees fit! He has always had great teammate except for his first stint in Cleveland or after Kyrie left for boston!
It's amazing how Shannon revises NBA History with a straight face lol.
Jordan fans do it all the time. Saying jordan retired for two years when in reality he retired for a year and a half and turned the ball over in the deciding possession of the magic series.
@@drewski103 Cherry picking semantics lol.
They have to cherry pick history to try to make a argument for LeBron lol
@John Kavanagh it’s not his fault his two all stars didn’t show up in 2014. It was literally LeBron vs the spurs. MJ quit on his team twice because he was scared of playing outside of Phil’s system. We’d view his career a lot different if he didn’t retire prematurely twice
@@immortal8447 When did Jordan quit on his team
I'm weak af @ Shannon tryna throw Charles Oakley on there 😂😂😂😂😂
Charles Oakley wasn't even making those all-defense teams when he played on the bulls. Shannon should be banned from talking about LeBrick.
@@Abbad1579
It was ridiculous he really tried to slide Oakley in there lmao
oaks the man . brought fear to all opposed him
😂
@@CustomFitted but when people bring up lebron on the cavs, they bring up he had shaq? and don’t mention that he was old and out of shape. but when it’s jordan he gets a pass. interesting how the narrative changes
Skip dodges more questions thats in Lebron favor than Ive ever seen before. He just answers a question with a question lol
finesse laflare ... No Skip Bayless answer the fantasy the Shannon Sharpe is having about Jordan more help than LaBaby is. LaBaby had 14 all-stars. Vs Jordan six.
hershel pogue You just made entirely no sense. But okay.
hershel pogue Lebron never had a good team for more than 4yrs Jordan his whole career
finesse laflare
Whole career? LOL
You're showing your age here 😂
Here's the kick in the nuts.....Jordan lead the Bulls to a chip, with Dennis Hopson, Craig Hodges, Cliff Livingston, Bill Cartwright, Will Perdue, and Stacey King.
Shannon is missing something. The Bulls winning 55 wins were residuals from being a championship team. What happened the following year? They weren't even in the playoff run. They were about to miss the playoffs. How do you fall off that far WITH PIPPEN if he was such a great player? MJ came back and led them to the playoffs and 3 more championships.
Duh, because You lose Horace Grant (all-star) to the magic. You lose Cartwright to Seattle. Jon Paxson retires. Pip was 1st in Def Eff and 2nd in def winshares. He was phenomenal
The truth is the 1st 3peat bulls were extremely overpowered nobody won more than 2 games against them except knicks 1 year lol
You could use this same argument for lebron but tenfold because directly after he leaves the team utterly falls apart
@@sethenglish599 no lies detected here 👍👍👍
Pippen got farther on his own with the Bulls then Michael did on his own.
MJ had to fight the coach and management and LeBron had everything he has ever asked for.
Jordan had the best coach in nba history and an incredible organization. LeBron played for a historically horrible organization. 🤡🤡🤡
@@Ddvgh1 You’re stupid. Phil Jackson didn’t even get recognition until Krause saw something in him
@@Ddvgh1 bruh way to contradict yourself lmao
@@aaronrooks2703 what does that have to do with how good Phil was as a coach?
@yellow Arrow are you saying Phil is nothing without MJ? Cause I can pull up various stats on just how good a coach he was if you so desire.
Give MJ Ty Lue & JR Smith.
Give LeBron Phil Jackson & Pippen.
Lets see who has the better career now.
OzzY FIFA Jordan. LBJ and Pippen play the same type of game. Jordan does not lose with Wade and Bosh period. 4-0. LBJ would probably be 2-4 with Phil Jackson and the Bulls.
I co-sign Eric Hall. This is the closest to accurate outcome. MJ wins all Finals with Wade and Bosh. No questions asked. Lebron loses half those Finals. MJ is 6 of 6 Lebron is 3 of 8. Keeping with percentages, giving Lebron %50 win rate is better than his actual.
Ozzy FIFA Lebron isn't a system player therefore he wouldn't fit with Phil and Pippen. Pippen was Lebron.
OzzY FIFA how about Kyrie and Love with it. Or Wade and Bosh. 😂😂😂 I see how you tried to cherry pick
MJ was not stupid enough to de and his while team traded or Phil Jackson fires just to get a him like Tyron Lue coach him.
That is why he is thr greatest and that is why he is 6-0.
In Game 1 of the Lakers Finals, MJ went for 36/8/12 on 58% shooting. I'll take that over Magic's 19/10/11.
Isaac Russell 19 points? The way Shannon was talking it felt like he put up 35.
@@kevinburke6055 Exactly, 19 poiints, 10 boards, 11 assists. Shannon acts like MJ didn't show out. He also had 3 steals that game. Ended the series 31 points, 6.6 boards, 11.4 assists, 2.8 steals, 1.4 blocks on 55%. All that in a more physical, less floor space era. Just the GOAT.
@@demontiakpinkney5881 And Magic won 5 to Jordan's 6, but that's not the issue. Plus, in Game 6, after Pippen was put on Magic, Magic had 16 points, 20 assists, and 11 rebounds. So, he dropped bigger tripple-double on Pippen.
I think you are wrong, but importantly, you are responding to an argument I didn't make. I was talking about the 1991 Finals and Pippen guarding Magic...
To be honest the 2 year break enabled MJ not to wear down and continue his dominance
" I think 14 is much more than 6"
This guy is a genius
Ha I can watch this video over and over all day. Hail the greatness of Jordan.
They are missing the point of today’s top NBA teams consist of multiple All Star players. Having more than one All Star on a team during the Jordan era was considered rare because All Star players would not recruit other All Stars to produce a super team.
Jon T Lebron did it when he moved to miami. He couldnt win teams so he moved to a superteam with 3 all stars and great veterans.
Good points. Nowadays most top teams has more than two all stars. So it is harder to beat other top teams with only 1 or 2 all stars.
Nadav Oneplus no no he help form the superteam
Kohlabear Plays There was a superteam in Boston that gave the Cavs trouble in years prior to Lebron moving to the Heat.
MJ's era there were many super teams and many teams with at least 2 all stars on them.
These Jordan LeBron debates are actually boring now
Eric Appiah-Kubi yea they reaching hard for lebron lol coming up with crazy stuff man
agree.
“hEz MoRe VeRzAtILe aNd cAn dO mOrE” according to Bronsexuals bring a slightly better rebounder and racking up a few more assists makes you more well rounded lol might as well include Westbrook and Draymond in the convo while we’re at it
Legendaryhype reaching? I mean if Jordan was good enough get to finals he wouldn't be 6-0 in finals. LeBron made finals at age 22
Andrew Blackop You're not very smart, are you? I'm not a Lebron fan, but "racking up a few more assists lol". Lebron is literally 100x the passer Jordan was. You can't even compare their playmaking skills. And yes, Lebron is the far more versatile player.
These debates are classic honestly 😂😂😂😂😂
Lebron played with 12 all stars compared to Jordan's 4
Lebron also played with a Finals MVP, ROY, scoring champion, and 2 guys who averaged 20 pts & 10 rebounds in their prime. Jordan never played with those kind of players especially in their prime
Correct! MJ got carried by HoF and some of the best defenders of all time instead
By your name, your disqualified from saying anything
Says who?
Weak ! Oh so we going to forget about Phil Jackson ? He didn’t want to play unless Phil was coach ! Lbj ever have a goat coaching him no ! D rod is better then ever player Lbj played w except wade !
@@AllHailxBuzz25 It's difficult to get a great coach when you constantly leave a team
all star is a fan vote...chris kaman was an all star
Actually, coaches are given a vote as well.
Cause chris Kaman was acutally decent
Kaman was legit that year.
He probably Kaman his pants when he made All-Star
M Gomes lmaoooo
Right now in Lebron's 14th season he has 3 rings and 4 MVPs.
In MJ's 14th season he was decorating his display closet with 6 Championship rings and 5 MVPs along with 2 Slam Dunk champion trophies and 1 time Defensive player of the year trophy.
Londzale dont forget LeBron's two bronze medals!!
Wtf you really brought up Jordan’s 2 slam dunk trophies? Lebron was robbed of defensive player of the year twice smh.
Also don’t compare it by season compare it by AGE.
Karma comparing it by age would be unfair, Jordan played 4 years in college and LeBron came out of highschool. Comparing by number of series shows who's done more in the same amount of time
You forgot 10 scoring titles
Skip literally finds one stat in his favor and he runs with only that the whole debate
Better than Shannon who had no stats and ran with Oakley being some noteworthy player like a Dwade or Kyrie.
Didnt Lebron have
Wade, Bosh, and Ray Allen,arguably the 3rd best 3point shooter in NBA history and in Cleveland didnt he have Love and Kyrie
And jus curious doesnt Lebron play the PG
role besides for Rodman and Pippen who else did he have the difference was MJ had role players that knew there role
Shannon can’t even mention DWade and his achievements and he keeps avoiding the 2011 Finals and saying The Mavs swept LA and Kobe shrink LOL D Wade was a proven player when Lebron played with him Scottie is a superstar yes but Wade has the better numbers
The Golden Boy I’m late to the party, but I have always thought that Wade and Kobe were closer than a lot of people think. Kobe was a better shooter, but Wade’s handles and finishing ability was all-time great.
LeBron played with an old dwade prime dwade was from 2006 to 2008
Jiggly Juice you sure? LOL have you seen D Wade in 2011-2013? LOL
@@johnjoshtvofficial7633 wade was good but LeBron joined wade pretty late
It’s official, Shannon is more entertaining than skiuuuuup
Juan Felipe lmao. He's ALWAYS been more entertaining. Don't agree with the LeBron meat chewing but i get it. It's for the show.
Where you been at???
Juan Felipe skip is more accurate though...
Skip was the weakest link on First Take also
Juan Felipe he is, but his argument was off track and weak on this one. He's awesome, just not in this topic.
Don’t forget Dennis Rodman. And Young Charles Oakley in 86’
Very good role players. Only Scottie was a true star.
Harper all defense as well...smh and kokoc ain't no slouch
RODMAN was old, good only in the 1996 Playoffs. But in the 1997 and 1998 Playoffs, he was terrible.
Prime RODMAN played vs MJ.
1997 Playoffs:
RODMAN = 4-ppg FG-37% and 8-RPG.
1998 Playoffs:
RODMAN = 5-ppg FG-37% and 12-RPG.
Oakley was traded over Jordan’s objections
Oakley made one all star when he was a knick Bosh made 5 time all star, kevin love 5 all stars, Rodman 2 none of them with the bulls mmmm I could go on and on son
LeBron has had better overall teams then Michael Jordan I won’t lie, but MJ had consistency in his robin, consistency in what’s built around him & consistency in being coached by an all time great coach . Part of Jordan being successful is partly due to that little bit of luck, but mostly good management around him . A factor highly underrated in today’s NBA
BIG facts.
Better overall teams? The bulls have a claim to be the best team of all time, none of LeBrons teams do
@@downbadichigo9331 yeah Chicago signing a superstar defender spectacular rebounder in Dennis Rodman, that's definitely true.
@@downbadichigo9331 that happened in 96 . The culture, core & system was figured out by then . LeBron put himself in many new situations & many/all of which had injury plagued stars . The 96 season is a result of maturation, culture & chemistry coming together . That team wasn’t that talented . It had role players who fulfilled their roles perfectly
Coaching as well LeBron not having a great environment or coaching system I think ended up hurting his development
Love this show
Skips argument was based off of one thing and that was All-Star appearances
Well you do make an all-star team for a reason, it’s either you put up great stats, influence winning on a team, or both. So counting all star appearances does matter
@@virgilmanuel3224 who has more now?
@@HTxGhost24 more what? more help? Lebron always had more help than MJ
@@virgilmanuel3224 I meant more All Star selections, remember Dwyane Wade already had bad knees when LeBron got to Miami, but if you wanna say how GREAT he is then how come he doesn't get any blame for the Dallas series? 🤔
@@HTxGhost24 Because D Wade was the reason Miami was even in control of dat series he averaged 27 on 52% shooting he was the best player in dat series Lebron melted down like we’ve never seen a superstar melt before
put jordan on that miami team with wade and bosh and they sweep dallas....and word to the wise Jordan didnt have to leave the bulls to "learn" to be a champion
no because jordans front office didnt give him such amazing talents as zydrunas ilgauskas mo williams anderson varejo delonte west and the shells of antawn jameson and shaq like lebron had to deal with. they drafted and signed talent which is something the cavs front office is completely incapable of doing they lucked out on lebron and kyrie theyve been trash at drafting anyone else
jboogbush2010 put jordan pn that cleveland team that beat the warriors and they lose, jordan might've lost against the spurs too
jboogbush2010
LeBron James went to the league after high school. Jordan couldn't make varsity. LeBron is still relevant in his 15th season. Jordan was washed up by his 15th season.
LeBron at 15 years old would destroy a 15 year old Jordan. God made LeBron to play basketball.
samuel moore
Durant jumped on the golden state bandwagon.
I respect his shot, it's more accurate than LeBron shot.
I never seen a high school player as talented, or be as successful in the league. Jordan NEVER played a team like golden state with Durant.
samuel moore
If that happens curry will have 5 but he isn't better than LeBron. Rings ain't everything.
Tbh Steve Kerr and Phil Jackson are the most helped players/coaches of all time
The difference is that the Bulls drafted pippen and grant, then Jordan taught them how to be killer on the court. It was wade that had to teach Lebron how to be a winner. Lebron had so much help throughout his career that it's not even funny.
Jordan taught them?? No. The Pistons taught them.
@@MrBarberboy42 If the Pistons taught the Bulls then Jordan and Pippen would have been dirty players just like the Pistons.
@@marshallmaxwell2494 Dirty Players? They were Champions. They didn't play any dirtier than any other team. They might've been tougher. MJ is my favorite player. But that loss to the Pistons pushed him to another level. If he had beaten those Pistons early he may have not gotten to 6.
Everyteam in the league back then knew that the pistons were dirty and that's why Thomas was kept off the Dream Team. I don't know how old you are but I watched those games first hand. The Pistons were dirty.
@@marshallmaxwell2494 😂. You must not have a basketball background. It was basketball in the 80's and early 90's. Name me one team that didn't play rough basketball. Basketball isn't Golf. It's a physical sport.
While Skip is forever hating Lebron...I think it's different as Lebron had multiple sets of great supporting casts while Jordan had a more consistent set of help...
but isn't this a team sport? They're talking as if it is a bad thing that a standout player had a good supporting cast
TyrantT316 thank you...
Unfortunately Common sense isnt common...W for you tho cuz u right...
First 3 peat he only had pippen LeBron oh sorry never 3 peated GTFOH!
Lebron has had more all star talented players supporting him on and off his career, but Mj did have longer lasting support from Scottie and Phil. Then factor that players like Horace Grant and Scottie were 7ppg rookies, MJ helped develop them. There's multiple factors to this.
TyrantT316 I don't blame skip Shannon is an Idiot.
Jordan would never allow Jason Terry to out play him
Lebron did tho
Facts. This debate should have ended after the 2011 finals.
How bout mj's first round exits? Why did he allowed it dude can u explain pls. And fyi he is wt teammates who score 20 plus points. Explain pls sir
Raven Panganiban Lim He was missing Pippen, once Pippen joined it was a wrap.
@Adidas Man44 lol and consider that era too. Midrange scoring that era is so easy and im saying players now have more competition than tha oldschool era.
Bro bron brought Anderson varejo, z, Larry Hughes, and Eric snow to a finals, half the help bron had early on wasn’t even help lol
Gets wade and bosh and averages 18 in the finals lol
@@Steven_Martinez where was the heat before lebron?? Knocked out in the first round. He went to the finals every season when he joined
@@noobrou5857 Wade was a finals MVP with Shaq in Miami
That’s easy, it was LeBron. He played with at least 15 all stars, 15 Olympian, had over 100 trades to help his team. MJ never cried for help. Scottie was coming off the bench MJs first chip.
Lebron got outplayed and shut down by Shawn Marion and J. J. Barea
MilitaryPcGamer win a 3-peat, win two 3-peats, win two 3-peats with entirely different team rosters other than the only other player to average double figures in the finals, own 42 playoff records, score in double figures in every playoff and finals game appearance, lead the league in more than one category, win all 3 mvp awards in one season (all star, regular season and finals), score in double figures in more than 1,000 consecutive games (LeBron's streak is currently in the 300s), i could go on but there's no way two time bronze medallist LeBron James can ever catch MJ. He's already played in 55 more finals games! If he hasn't caught him by now then he never will
MilitaryPcGamer Lebron is not mentally tougher in bigger games. Lebron never played against real 7 footers or dunked on any.. Michael did. Kyrie and the refs, and green being suspended beat the warriors
Ronnie Branford 😂😂😂😂😂😂 ALL FACTS
Rich Boss Nick Anderson outplayed Michael Jordan and Made him change his number from 45 to 23
BJ Armstrong , Horace Grant ,Scottie made the Allstar game in 1994
Jordon fans: Lebron had way more help than Jordon
Also Jordon fans: 1996 Bulls is the best team of all time, they'd destroy the Warriors
I do think that lebron in Miami had a better team than Jordan for his first 3 championships. Lebron,Wade, Bosh, Allen... That's easily an All time Great team. Lebron best small forward, Wade arguably 3rd best shooting guard, Bosh rebounding and defensive monster, Allen one of the greatest shooters we've ever seen(especially 3's). I think Miami in that year matches up very well with 96' Bulls.
Eh, I think that's a little disingenuous. They both had help. Who had more isn't really that important to me. What does matter is that Jordan is the greatest of all time and the '96 Bulls are also the greatest of all time *in large part due to Jordan*. The other primary reason the '96 Bulls are the best is that they could basically lock down your top four scoring options because they were such a devastating defensive team. Only a dominant center could really do major damage, and even there, Rodman was actually capable of defending Shaq, and they had lots of fouls to give up with their lesser frontcourt guys. I don't think any team in NBA history really matches up that well with them.
AAA. internet they played defense n everyone knew their role
AAA. internet that is true though
Especially when all Lebron's teammates get injured literally every year
Had to play 2015 finals almost literally alone
Everyone gets hurt no excuses. You act like Michael Jordan wasn't hurt,he was he just wouldn't know by looking at him, Michael Jordan is a man and the leader of his team. Since they know Michael Jordan would play even if he's hurt, they just wouldn't quit on a man like that. It doesn't look good. Now you know another difference between your Lebron and Michael Jordan.
Michael Jordan and LeBron James are both great players, and both had help from other great players along the way.
You need help
LeBron never had a HOF coach like Phil Jackson!
MJ goat
Hmm lets see. Jordan had Scottie Pippen(argueably the best wing defender ever who was putting down 20 ppg along with guarding the other teams best player most the time), Dennis Rodman(who is the greatest rebounder in NBA history averagely), Steve Kerr (who has the highest 3pt FG percentage in NBA history), the most winningest coach in NBA history in Phil Jackson, The 6th man of the year Toni Kukoc, and many great roleplayers (Charles Oakley/Horace Grant/Ron Harper/Craig Hodges etc..) while facing legit one-man teams(aside from the old Utah Jazz with Malone/Stockton in the finals(AKA the Clyde Drexler Trailblazers(2x), Charles Barkley Suns, The Gary Payton led Supersonics.
I know you Jordan fans dont want to face it but what has faced is farrr less compared to what Lebrons had to face year after year going up against Golden State/Spurs/OKC and a Golden state that probably has more star power on 1 team than Jordan's had to face in his entire Final's career lol.
Star. Bucks. Ok, stop telling too much truth. Someone will get mad at you soon
Stopped reading when I saw 'winningest'
Jaylen Goggles of course u stopped reading u cant handle the truth lmao
Everything you stated was absolute #truth
Star. Bucks. Lmao you lost your argument when you say steve kerr and Horace Grant LMAOO lebron had ray allen hall of famer,chris bosh hall of famer,wade hall of famer,kevin love hall of famer,kyrie Irving hall of famer CASE CLOSED LeBron had the more help cased CLOSED
Its like skip intentionally made this question and put it on 🤣🤣
Tristen Vro 😂😂😂
Tristen Vro at 0:08-0:09 it sounds like Shannon says it’s lebron😂😂😂
Yep, he frying Leshannon
Stone Love wrong
Lol yup cuz shannon really had no argument here. Lebron has had multiple allstars for most of his career
Legendary debates
skip:4 years is a long time
shannon:is it longer then the 10 years jordan has with scottie pippen
"don't do that" "help me out" "hold on, now"
Jordan played 2 years with Charles Oakley to start his career....Shannon talking like he had Oakley for a decade lol
Joe Isa Oakley was a defensive force to protect young jordan he was a liability on offense he was decent
Ok and? Skip saying lebron played with 14 allstars and jordan played with 6 is misleading because jordan played with the same dudes forever. It’s like saying someone missed more free throws when they have 2000 more attempts than the other player; it’s disingenuous and a false equivalency.
Can we revisit this? Skip and Shannon undisputed😂
30 seconds in and Shannon done lost this debate 🙄
When Michael left the bulls, they knew he was leaving and retooled. Added Rodman, Tony K, Steve Kurr. In that time frame. The Cavs had no clue Lebron was leaving.
Secondly Dwade is arguably the 3rd best shooting guard ever. Jordan, Kobe then Wade. Pippen at best is 6th.
Lebron, Bird, baylor, durant, Erving then Pippen.
Lastly Shannon brings up that Pippen was 3rd runner up for mvp without mj.........Wade SHOULDVE WON MVP 2009. The year before Lebron got there. Averaged more points assists and had close rebound numbers while averaging more blocks and steals than lebron, he was also the only guard since Jordan to get over 80 blocks and 150 steals. Resepct Wade
Arguably the 3rd best shooting guard? There's no argument, he is already #3.
The issue is that no one likes to bring up wade was no longer in his prime after that 2011 season. Knee issues really got to him and played a little over half the season. Bosh was turned into a shell of his former baby dinosaur days when he was an easy 20 and 10 a night player.
londonrd yea wade won scoring title that year too. He’s my favorite player after Jordan just because I had a playing style like his and I like how he could take over games and compete in his prime. He still competes just on backside of career now
John Lee yea but even if that’s the case they lost to one of the weakest finals teams lebron faced in their prime together. No excuse for that!
Bitcoin is LIT not in 2011 or 2012. Wade avg 22 a game in playoffs 11 & 12. How is that a shell when pippen avg under 20 points in couple of bulls playoff championship years??
Is this even a question..... LeBron was apart of teams with 1/4 of the Eastern Conference all stars for 8 years while nobody else in the conference had 3 stars. Not 1 team
2014/2015 heat basically had the same team that they had on there finals run (minus Lebron). They won 37 games missed the playoffs.
Before Lebron comes back to clevland kyrie lead the cavs to a whopping 33 wins.
With Lebron these teams aren’t even making playoffs let alone finals..... pippen brought the bulls to 55 wins and the playoffs. Oh and 6 straight for Jordan is bull.... 1995 he was eliminated in 6 games by the magic in eastern conference semis..... oh and let’s not forget his clutch 1 point in the 4th quarter of the elimination game
theBSexpress First of all Lebron leaves with no warning so teams dont have a chance to prepare after they tailor made a roster full of spot up shooters just for him. Wade played 52 games while Bosh played 44. They shut them both down with the blood clots and knees. And Lebron himself couldnt even make the playoffs til year 3 in Cleveland so why we expecting Kyrie too 🤔🤔🤔🤔
theBSexpress yeah but the fact is LeBron is great in today’s game but you cannot argue Jordan being 6-0 in the finals. Well the NBA finals the hype of the crowd clutch moments. Respect Jordan being the Goat and LeBron being the king
2011 nba final game 4 makes lecramp disqualified for the goat conversation shannon sharpe ...8 pathetic points
Then after ,1000games with 15,5,5 stats...
I been trying to find a video where MJ quit on his team in the finals, where MJ lost a finals, where MJ got swept in the finals, where MJ went to a game 7 in the finals, where MJ gets locked down in the finals, where MJ switched teams just to win a ring... But I can't find anything... Meanwhile u switched MJ with Bron and u can find all that... Smh shannon is wild 😂. Bron should never be put in the GOAT Convo.
@@subzero308 MJ never have to carry a team
@@subzero308 What about MJ losing first rounds of the playoffs? Tbh I’d rather lose in the finals than lose in the first round and be considered and embarrassment.
@@akshay5569 u mean when he averaged 40 in a finals
Scottie was All Star game MVP the year Jordan went to play baseball. They also won 55 games that year.
When MJ left, Scottie loss in the semifinals and the next year was on the verge of missing the playoffs until MJ came back. DWade is a scoring champion and Finals MVP before Bron got to Miami. He beat Dirk without Bron and Bosh but loss in 2011 in 6 because Bron choked. Wade would've won another Finals MVP and be a 4 time NBA Champion
Preach brotha preach!
People never acknowledge the 2015 Heat were injured too. Bosh and Wade each missed over half the year. Next year, 2016, Bosh was hurt again but Wade was healthy. And they got just as far as those 1994 Bulls are. So that argument about Bulls are just as good without MJ is the same for LeBron and Miami
Supermariohoops24 EXACTLY
You realize he was a call away from going to the finals that was a bogus call on scottie pippen kyrie couldn't take the Cavs far with out bron wade couldn't carry his team when everyone left and he had a team like lebron James he had problems with Dan Gilbert and delonte west and they wouldn't get him help
Anthony Hooper so when did the eastern conference semis become one game away from nba finals? Stop LYING they played knicks in 2nd round...
Also, They were only 34-31 THE NEXT YEAR in danger of missing playoffs and MJ CAME BACK out of retirement to help them go 13-4 in the last 17 games of the season. Why don’t you bring that second season without Jordan up??
Can you imagine MJ with the help of Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh ? He's never had a situation like that...
Dont forget Ray Allen.
can you imagine going against kawhi, tony parker, danny green, tim duncan, manu ginobili, and one of the best spurs team to ever exist? how bout the warriors lol
@Toxic Gaming istg, especially playing against kawhi
@Toxic Gaming Oh Hey LeBron James Justice coalition member 😂
@I'm the best at everything I'm never wrong The guy who saved Lebron James and gave him another ring?...
Skip knows that Shannon is speaking facts because when Gary Payton said the same thing, Skip agreed and kept quiet
Facts??? Is 1 all-star against multiple all-stars on multiple big three teams a winner to you 😂😂😂
Stop it man 😂😂😂
I can’t really have an answer to this. Two different eras with different supporting talents 🤦🏾♂️ smh
MJ will always be the GOAT! And yes Skip, best player in the planet!
Lebron is just a ring chaser! MJ made his team great and LeBron just went to a team or joined with a great teammates or recruited establish players to bail him out to win championships!!
All star appearances:
Pippen - x7 all star
Rodman - x2 all star
Wade - x12 all star
Bosh - x11 all star
Allen - x10 all star
Love - x5 all star
Kyrie - x5 all star
Is this even a debate???
RD You forgot about Antiwan Jamison. He was an All-star when Lebron played with him.
Lebron would sweep the 96 bulls.
W
Now do this all star count when those players PLAYED with Jordan/LeBron
RD Rodman didn’t make 5 all star teams he made 2
Kobe showed up in all games in that series vs Mavs in 2011. LeBron shrank in that series and outplayed by a washed up Jayson Terry. 😂
Junzstyle Madapaka did Kobe up show against the Pistons in 2004?
WINSTON GREEN Tell the whole the truth. Him and shaq weren't completely done with each other and they didn't prepare for that series.
Kobe lost in 5 but Lebron lost in 6
dougieesneh and Kobe is 5-2 should had been 6-1
Lakers got swept
Tell me who you’d rather play with in your career. And before all you Lebron fanboys go off I’m listing best players they’ve played with in their CAREER.
Scottie Pippen
Dennis Rodman
Toni Kukoc
Richard Hamilton
Steve Kerr
Or
Dwayne Wade
Kyrie Irving
Anthony Davis
Chris Bosh
Ray Allen
Kevin Love
Bob Jones
First off you need to check your source or your head because Kevin love never averaged anything near 8 PPG when he went to Cleveland. He averaged 17.2 PPG and 10 RPG during his tenure with LBJ.
Secondly Charles Oakley only ever played ONE season with MJ where he averaged 3 PPG and 6 RPG so thank you for destroying your own point about players not being as good as they used to be.
Thirdly
Steve Kerr averaged 8 PPG during his time with MJ. Which is 2 PPG less than what Allen averaged with LBJ. So wait if Allen was washed what’s Kerr?
Fourth
Horace grant was a great player but doesn’t even compare to the likes of Chris Bosh or Anthony Davis. He had identical stats to shaq in 2010 with the Cavs 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Not to mention of all the players YOU mentioned this is combined how many all star appearances they have
MJ Teammates
10x All star
LBJ Teammates
31x All star
Who’d you rather take.
A team of
Pippen
Rodman
Kerr
Harper
Grant
Paxston
Kukoc
OR
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Love
Dwayne Wade
Chris Bosh
Ray Allen (10 PPG)
You’re an idiot. Next time you try to argue something come with facts and not made up BS. Dismantling your idiotic make belief argument was easy.
Not saying Lebron wasn’t great. But to say he had less help is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever heard. Stop watching basketball and please for the love of god.
Stop riding Lebron.
Shannon talking about all these defensive players that Mike had well dang cause they actually played D back then! It’s a offensive game now and the reasons why those players were great cause Mike made them great they knew what Mj expected and he wasn’t gonna settle for nothing less
But did Jordan play with someone who won a finals and finals mvp before he won a title himself? 🤔
MilitaryPcGamer In the Finals*
Dennis Rodman had how many rings before coming to the bulls???
Callie Steele didn’t MJ have more rings that Dennis Rodman? And did he win a finals MVP🤔
Samory Rose Jordan did play with someone who won a ring. D Rod
Steve Gerrard did Jordan not have 3 rings before they played together? (Which is more than Rodman)
Remember when mo Williams was an all star? The all star title is a little overrated.
Mark Scarlet yeah I know I remember a year when Zaza Pachulia almost got voted in.
Shrek Is A Baller let me guess, that finals mvp wade got was also overrated. Without Lebron wade was a role player right ? Scottie and Horace Grant on the other hand were bench players when they joined the bulls lol
Mo William's was a great piece. Catch and shoot on the moneyyy! Above average defender and excellent at moving off the ball for lebron to pile his assists with. that's why lebrons passing to the 3 ball is 7 times more than mjs. Mj got his assists with giving the ball to mid range players and feeding the post off of broken defense. Way more skilled. MJ = Goat
Mark Scarlet that’s a very good point. I thought it was a dumb argument they were making to begin with on all star appearances. On the flip side, dennis Rodman has 2-all star appearances and is hall of famer. He hardly ever got voted in because fans hated him. So yeah, all-star appearances is a flawed argument.
If you think about it, every award is overrated. Every stat is overrated. That's why the eye test is the best way to define a player. Lebron played in the east. Playing in the garbage east helped him lead his team to more wins and allow him to be in the MVP conversation. Lebron would have missed the playoffs 4 times in his career, had he played in the west. And would have had only 3 finals appearances at best
Skip is the master at deflecting and answering hard questions with more questions.
wade bosh ray allen kyrie love now davis..
Dont 4get Howard
MJ had better players because he MADE them better players. The man knew how to light a fire in the guys around him.
Robert B actually, lebron had lots of great and good teammates.. he was surrounded by shooters and all stars
John Jones Dude was coaching in Puerto Rico before the bulls.
Robert B What? Michael Jordan was a terrible teammate
Robert B Jordan's teammates said it themselves Jordan Drilled them during practice to be better than they was or to be better than they ever thought they would be .
You can't name one player that LeBron has elevated his play. LeBron's teams don't draft and develop players.
Skip's all star argument is a stretched. All star voting doesn't translate to greatness.
Say hi to Kaiman, Jameer Nelson, Mo Wiliams to say a few.
But in the case of Wade, bosh, love, Kyrie to say a few does translate to greatness lol
@@SamM-kh2vd amen🙏
Sameer Mehta and Kevin Love
James Nwachukwu reread his comment fam
Sameer Mehta eh they were all on the tail end except Kyrie, who would’ve won b2b ships with Lebron if he didn’t get hurt
Lebron jumped from team to team with numerous all Stars and future hall of famers
MJ only played with one allstar. Lebron played with about 4💀
kevin love was not very good and neither was chris bosh. They were above average. Kyrie is toxic and was a defensive liability. Come on, jordans entire team could play defense and score. Also, I think the coaching staff is the xfactor. Bron had all rookie coaches his entire career, mike had doug collins, dean smith and phil jackson and the best trainers and assistants. Jordans overall teams were much better.
To be fair, Lebron played w/ 2 at a time, while Jordan played yes, w/ 1. It is more impressive to keep doing it w/ the same nucleus, as oppose to hopping to greener pastures. Staying w/ 1 team does usually equate to better chemistry, but that's part of the expected reward for loyalty, if you can just keep steadily improving. In yesteryear, a lot of the stars were okay w/ the possibility of winning no rings, so long as they got the delight to just have every chance to one day conquer the greatest competition w/ their own team, as oppose to help a rival.
Like if you were Reggie Miller, you wanted to win a ring for you, but you also were intrigued by the challenge of trying to prevent say Patrick Ewing from winning any. It wasn't hate; it was just the fun of the challenge. Now the Patrick Ewing's & Reggie Miller's of the world are joining each other left & right for the easiest road to take out a Jordan, Lebron or Kareem, kind of like Lebron joined the Heatles to take out the Celtics, and Durant joined the Splash Brothers to take out Lebron.
I mean toni kukoc was a all star no matter what anyone says, Played like one and had all star aura
@@eobardthawne6921 Fringe all-star at best. He was a great 6th man, but if Kukoc counts as an all-star, then Buck Williams & Jerome Kersey should count as all-stars that Drexler played w/ on the early 90s Trail Blazers that had some success, though they never actually made the all-star team w/ Clyde. They were posting borderline all-star level contributions, so your argument is totally flawed. Kukoc was more than just a role player like say Kerr, but he wasn't an all-star, nor should he have been in any of the Jordan yrs.
@@victorcrowell1988 MJ’s team wasn’t full of scorers the 3rd best scorer on the team was kokuc who was barely putting up ten ppg.MJ team was more defenders than scorers.
LeBron is a great great player he deserves and earned his place as a top player to ever do it we never seen a guy like that!!!! With that being said MICHEAL JEFFREY JORDAN is the best Basketball player ever
he's the greatest not the best
@@arahelombi8241 😑 huh?
@@1Flyingfist Micheal Jordan is the greatest player all time. Lebron is the Best player of all time.
Arah Orock You obviously didn’t witness MJ first hand.
@Drew Biggah If you cant call going to the finals 9 times great idk what you on. Whether you like him or not, lose or not. That is great. Hes not the greatest of all time of course but he is one of the best to ever do it. The man broke records. A good player cannot take their team to the finals 9 times. You must not know how hard it is for a team to make it to the finals.
Shannon just can't admit he lost the argument. You can see him overreaching at the end when called Dennis Rodman a top 50 player. He wasn't a top 50 player and joined the bulls at 34 years old. To many excuses for lebron
Rodman should be a top 50 player
@@tehutibrim594 Actually Dominique Wilkins suppose to be a top 50
@@manolopeguero4305 yup #facts
Still top rebounder and all defensive player because he didn't have to score.
@@rgood1204He sure is Rodman was a freak of nature. But Dominique was more valuable than Rodman and wasn't included in top 50 all time. Anyways back to real point is Jordan didn't have to move from team to team because he made his players around him great
Jordan without Scottie would never made the finals.
Lebron without D Wade, Kyrie, AD wouldn’t have a ring, if you would switch and put Lebron in MJ shoes I guarantee to you the bulls wouldn’t make past the first round in the play off and or the semifinals
Skils face and pause when Shannon Jordan 🤣🤣🤣
Lebron played with Ben Wallace and Shannon is talking about mj playing with a two time defensive player of the year
bronsesxual ignore any facts
Think about how good Dwayne Wade, Kyrie Irving, Chris Bosh, Kevin Love are individually. All Franchise perennial Allstar players. Can you sit there and say Jordan had that kind of caliber players on his team throughout his career???? Mind you, the drafted Scottie Pippen was Jordan’s best help and Wade is considered better than Scottie Pippen...Not to mention all the other Great Role players Lebron had like Ray Allen
Steve kerr luc Longley Harper are all better role players than ray Allen, you can let say wade is better than pippen lmao
DruffMan wb mike miller, shane battier , regie lewis, mario chalmers,
Wade is not considered better then Pippen and you forgot Rodman one of the best defenders in NBA history. Steve Kerr one of the best 3pt shooters. Ron Harper one of the most underrated players. So don’t come hear and say that MJ didn’t have help.
Isac Fredheim wade's finals mvp performance is debated as the best in league history. You want to compare pippen to that???
+Druffman Why are you lying? We know of Steve Kerr because of Jordan. Ray Allen was a franchise player in Milwaukee and Seattle and a champion before joining Lebron. Just stop it
Hor Grant 😂 😂 😂 Shannon cant pronounce Horace 😂 im dead
LeBron has played with more all stars, including 5 seasons with two all stars . Wade is a champion without LeBron and both he and bosh combine for 16 all stars without LeBron and finished 3rd in the East. 5 all stars between Kyrie and love without LeBron. Pippen 2 all stars without Jordan
Horace 1
Rodman 2 before Jordan.
It’s not even close.
James handpicked every team he’s been on and who he wants as a number 2 and 3.
Clearly Lebron had more help and let his legacy take a hit by only winning 3 rings and some fools in the media are always trying to put him in the same sentence or level as MJ which is so disrespectful when only Kobe and Kareem are on his level.
@@adamsamuel8593 he has 4 rings first of all second of all you deadass think Kobe is remotely close to them lmao he wasn't the best player on a majority of his finals teams he has horrible efficiency he has 1 MVP he isn't on their level
MVPs lebron
Ppg lebron
Apg lebron
Rebounds lebron
Efficiency lebron
Leadership lebron( you can't even debate this he is one of the greatest leaders of all time he led kyrie who is proving to not be led by anyone but lebron he led his team back down 3-1)
Steals Kobe
Blocks lebron
@@adamsamuel8593 lebron james other superstar were injured in 2015 kyrie and kevin love and wade and bosh were slowly declining
MJ's only played with Two other HOFamers: Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman. Rodman came after Jordan had already won 3 titles! Lebron has played with 4 Potential HOFamers: Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, D-Wade, and Ray Allen and you could argue that Chris Bosh is a 5th potential HOFamer! Lebron fans love to say that talent is better in today's game but always want to say MJ had better players around him!
'''potential''' doesn't count either you are a hall of famer or you are not and everybody you mentioned are currently not hall of famers ,so you cant use that as an argument .
K.dot- Bosh will get in the hall of fame.
+ryanr20091 yes I can! I say "potential" because a few of those guys are still playing. better believe Ray Allen is getting in as soon as he's eligible! D-wade is a lock and as soon as Kyrie and Love are done they will be too!
K. dot Bosh is a first ballot too. I don’t get how u play with Bosh and Wade and only win 2 rings.
ryanr20091 shaq is hof
Real truth is Lebron had help. That help was the Toronto Raptors being in their division and helping him get to the finals every time they faced in the playoffs.
5abivt FACTS
5abivt lol
Lebron averaged 35 against them. What about the series against the Pacers were none of them scored 20 and lebron had to drop 44 points just to win by 3.
That same series he had to drop 20 in the first twice for them to even stand a chance. These people are something ekse
5abivt Even though im rooting for LeBron and Cavs ,this comment was funny to me lol
During the 1993/1994 season the bulls had the chance to acquire Jeff hornacek from the sixers before the jazz acquired him. All the sixers wanted was the bulls 1994 first round pick. Jerry Krause refused the deal because he didn't want to give up the draft pick. Krause picked dickey simpkins a bust with that pick I believe the bulls would have made the finals without Jordan in 1994 if they acquired hornacek because the bulls had big leads against the Knicks in games 1, 2 and 3 and hornacek would have helped the bulls maintain those leads.