Product Review: Top-Gun Winwing MIP
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- wwsimstore.com/
0:00 Intro
01:13 Unboxing
03:30 Downloading files
03:45 Assembly
04:09 SimApp Pro
05:22 Top Gun kit - F/A-18C
09:05 Top Gun kit - F-16C
10:53 Phoenix kit - AH-64 (VR)
12:49 Pricing
13:14 Comments
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UPDATE: Hello folks. I've just tested a few other DCS airframes to see what would happen if I left the "MFD Screen" activation in the F-18 mode, while opening aircraft that are not currently listed. GOOD NEWS! All versions of the A-10, the Harrier, the Blackshark, the Mirage 2000, the FCS F-15 work. So, any DCS aircraft that are supported in the standard "viewport-export" list will work.
Did it work with the F16?
@@UNiTEDDKSilent21 Yes
Have you tested more airframes?
Isn't it amazing that we live in a time when this kind of kit is available? I remember playing Flight Simulator 3 or 4 on some creaky old 486SX 25mhz with 4mb RAM with no joystick, and I thought that was amazing at the time! 🤣
That takes me back to dipswitch days and high blood pressure!!! 🤣
I remember playing Aces Over Europe on my computer that ran at a 233Mhz processor. Oh yeah. You read that right. The fact that I had a joystick at all felt cutting edge. What a time to be flight sim fan.
the prices are unfortunately not amazing , can hardly afford one
Chuck Yeager's Air Combat for me. Most basic joystick ever and that was it. I can't even imagine how 12 year old me would react.
In a couple years it'll be "Skil and Kelso from GR here. Today we'll be unboxing and reviewing the WinWing F18 Hornet Airframe". Wouldn't that be something. Good vid Gents!
Yaasss!!! We'll just need a Go-Fund-Me for some Jet A. 🤣
@@wildbillkelso2083 that shouldn't be be a problem. The Valued Viewers love you guys. Have to get Cap one too. Must say "Stupid Bog" on the sides
Sent to them free of charge for their honest review.
@@eq1373 And about 80 hours of our personal time. 🤣
Wow. You guys - and Winwings - really take things to another level.
Thank you Quentin. I think we're pretty lucky on this Winwing gig. Reviews take 40-80 hrs to make, so they aren't really classified as fun. But this one was worth it.😀
Awesome that you guys covered the AH64, since that is my intended primary craft and been wondering the best kit to get.
When I was sat alone playing Ace on my C64 in the 80s I never dared to dream that this kind of peripheral would ever become available, let alone a high fidelity combat simulation. Now where’s my wallet!
We have certainly come a long way! 👍
If this stuff had been available when I was a kid, I would've sold a body part to get it. Truly amazing.
😂 👍
@@wildbillkelso2083 + 1 for the 1941 reference. 😁
@@jreese46 One in the same 😂
dude, whatever it is , just dont sell your body parts
Thank you very much for the USB HUB you use, you solve my problem, my hub had not enough power many thanks
Received my Top Gun kit yesterday and it's excellent quality.
The split screen is the cherry on top
Really nice set up. Good video 😀
The phrase....
"It ain't easy mak'n videos."...
made me want to be a Grim Reaper and no longer a "humanoid" so BAD!!!!
LOL! Great job guys. This gear looks so good!
Thank you Justin. It's not fancy. But then again, we aren't TH-camr pro's. 😆
Thanks for this guys!
Yay! The SKil and Kelso show returns! Great review guys!
Thank you sir! 😀 We aims to please.
Cheers Pritch!!👍
Does anyone else find it odd the Scot is "Skil" when Kelso is in Scotland (I have friends that live there)? 🤣
@@No1sonuk Yes, we should fix that with the next review conducted in Kelso, Scotland. 💪💪
I was pretty close to buy this but I really like playing the SU27 and MIG29. Thanks for clarifying that it only works for specific planes.
Just watched top gun maverick. TH-cam is all knowing.
Woah, this costs way less than I expected.
Yes, given some of the competition's prices, you'd have to piece it together from several sources, verses the MIP.
That was my initial reaction to seeing the prices as well.
@@Pallidum 👍
"we can't bring you the whole cockpit..." well they're getting pretty damn close I'd say lol
Yes, yes they are. 😆
that's next level stuff. using vr i feel like this would be a bit overkill. But for a huge monitor this would be awesome
I agree. I tried VR 3 times and kept going back to the crisp view of monitors. The last time I went big, 43" 4k, 120hz gaming screen.
Great vid. Thanks! I wonder if the Top Gun MIP and the AV8B will work at some point (not familiar with the Winwing sooftware/hardware at all). Cheers!
Thank you Lerxter. I'm sure they'll get around to adding the AV8B to the activation lineup. 😀
Really hoping for a F16 version! I would buy it now LOL - I have the Winwing F18 throttle and stick and F16 Throttle and Stick and they are fantastic
We are so flattered by your praise and will keep updating our service and products, thank you so much for supporting WINWING.😊
@@WINWING-SIMULATOR I should mention that I came from the Thrust master Warthog Wich is a great HOTAS but I find the Winwing to be better quality and more buttons
Unfortunately they dropped the ball on the 16. Viper pilots want the whole setup, not just a flip over with Hornet MFDs
One thing I notice, is the LCDs are definitely a buy. Not having them and seeing that side by side is really standing out to me. Just my honest opinion here.
I agree, if you are playing on a monitor I think you really do want/need to get the screens for the full effect.
VR users do not need the screens, so it is great that there is the option to get the kit without them, so that you don't have to pay for screens you cant see. 👍
@@skilgannon5069 That would literally be the only use case not too.
What a hardcore set up 😲
Nice review.
Thank you. 😃
Cheers!!👍
Now we are going to have kids claiming they know how to fly a jet
Perfect Jobs !!!! Well done !!! Perfect Job !!! Lg from Laakirchen/Austria !!!! Best regards Stockhammer Thomas Franz
Thank you sir. 😀
Cheers!👍
this is neat
If anyone is curious about shipping to USA... I ordered my Top Gun MIP on 9Jan. I was just delivered to my home in TX (13Jan). Now it has to sit in the box for a 6 weeks awaiting my return to TX. Unfortunately, Winwing would ship to my military APO address, but it's a small inconvenience.
Wish they could give a realistic timeline of when they'll be available again.
They posted a notice on their store today, saying the 20th. You may want to check out the specifics. Good luck.
@@wildbillkelso2083 I appreciate this info, thank you!
@@jehlybean636 You are welcome.
Thanks for the review looks awesome just worried about fps drop using the ddi screens did you notice any significant drop?
I tested the fps issue and found no perceivable drop in fps.
That's great news thanks
That was a good question
Could you chaps make a video about monitors to use with the MFDs? Not necessarily the specific product, just an overview, some how-tos and a few recommendations?
You can find several documents and videos by searching "DCS viewport"
Top 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you. 👍
We need a F-15E version next, and not just a ICP (fail for 16…)
Would you happen to have the dimensions from left to right of all panels put together and also height from the desk to the top of the middle panel? I'm trying to see if it will fit in my rig but the website doesn't appear to have any dimensions listed...thanks!!
Do the DDI's show the color red? Does the bottom MFD displays more than green so you can see the map in colors? How high does the entire unit sits above the desk so not to block the view of the monitor? How many USB connections do you need?
11) Yes on 8-bit colors for the DDI's. You can view the color map on the AMPCD only, but you have to reduce the viewing distance for the color map to show. 2) About 10 1/2" or 267mm. As a hobby welder, I TIG welded 2" square tubing stand offs for the 3 legs of my monitor. 3) The Top-Gun, with screens require 7. 1 for the UFC/HUD. 1 each for the Push Button DDI/AMPCD's. And 1 each for the screens. The Phoenix doesn't use the screens so 4 for that one.
I am also curious if this setup is designed to work specifically with DCS only, or could it possibly work with other sims? Now, I ask that question and at the same time I am sitting here asking myself... what other sim even has that kind of functionality? Perhaps newer versions of P3D...? MSFS2020 maybe?
hi there great VID, do you have the Bindings for the winwing MFD for the apache please
I assume each component has its own individual USB connection? Up to 5 for the top gun MIP?
The Top-Gun, with screens require 7. 1 for the UFC/HUD. 1 each for the Push Button DDI/AMPCD's. And 1 each for the screens. The Phoenix doesn't use the screens so 4 for that one.
i wasnt sure about this to begin with but now i am sold!!! once i get my sticks and throttles sorted, this is next on the list!!!
Question: using the top gun package can you export the AH-64 screens on the winwing MFD Units?
Yes. Skil demonstrates that in the video. It also currently supports the F-16. They'll roll out updates, adding additional aircraft in the future.
@@wildbillkelso2083 ahh right okay, I was not sure as he has the kit without the actual displays and was only showing the button/controls side of it so I was wondering if you could export the MPD's and TEDAC from the AH to the Winwing displays like you did with the DDI's and MPCD, can say for sure though this is definitely something I will be saving up for
@@jtormie7517 Well, I appreciate your request. But after 3 weeks and about 80 hrs in this project, I'll have to pass. I'm sure you'll be able to find someone on the net who has or will shortly post a video for you.
@@wildbillkelso2083 ahh you misunderstand, it was not a request, just a generic question if you happened to know from the testing you conducted😄
Hi @JtOrmie, I will include the TEDAC in my review
That is a flight simmers dream :)
Yaaasss!!😆
Any idea if WinWing is going to make a "dumbed down" version of the F/A-18-UFC Unit1 and F/A-18-HUD Unit1, without the displays and illumination, for total VR use?
if DCS can recognize all the panels on the Phoenix kit is it necessary to have to run SimApp Pro software? That software is known to be a huge resource hog and would rather bind everything individually inside of DCS for each airframe
I think I will get one of these after I get my pit frame. I do with someone would make a quality trim wheel kit with axis not encoders I have a 3d printed one but it's just not the same. Pretty please wingwing
You will love it.
Great vid - quick question - I used the link, bought the system. The UFC works great until I go to SHIFT F1 (to remove cockpit and just use outside view with HUD symbology) and then the UFC stops displaying… any thoughts????
Never mind - fixed it myself by editing the config files. Now system works perfectly in both views. Cheers.
Is dude wearing an Aragon watch? I like it.
Hamilton Field Mechanical 50mm. 👍
Thanks for this video. Looks great. I wish DCS would provide the capability to remove the instrument panel from the screen for exactly this reason. I also wish WinWing would have included a HUD, but I guess that would be expensive. Have you heard anything about flight pedals from WinWing? Seems strange they would go after these new products before having flight pedals. I think they are missing some low hanging fruit. I need some flight pedals and would prefer to stay in the WinWing family. Seems they should be able to put together some flight pedals pretty quickly as it is probably the simplest of all of the controls.
I was thinking the same thing.... When I get my MIP set, how am I gonna turn off those same components in the sim on the monitor?
And yeah, how about a rudder pedal set from WW? I just "upgraded" my pedals from the old Logitech G940 pedals to a set of Saitek pedals and I absolutely hate them. My next cockpit purchase was gonna be a set of high end pedals from Virpil or Falcon. But I think I will hold out for a while and get an MIP system ad possibly a couple more add-on panels.
The big question I've been hunting for an answer to is how many usb lines actually run between the unit and your computer?
As for locating buttons under VR, I put a dot of super glue on the middle button for each side of my cougar mfds, makes it easy to find where I am with my other identifier being the buttons on the edge of each side
The Top-Gun, with screens require 7. 1 for the UFC/HUD. 1 each for the Push Button DDI/AMPCD's. And 1 each for the screens. The Phoenix doesn't use the screens so 4 for that one.
@@wildbillkelso2083 thanks a bunch, the other review I saw almost made it look like the UFC worked as a partial hub to cut the numbers down a bit
@@deathsicon Yes, the HUD plugs into the UFC, only requiring 1 to the computer.
@@wildbillkelso2083 ok, I saw one for sure in that video, nobody mentioned if it was one or multiples
Will there ever be any type of hardware that Winwing will build for the F-14? I understand that if Heatblur were to come out with a D model ever some of these items could crossover. But in the meantime, would there ever be consideration for building a left or right knee panel of the Tomcat by them? Maybe these items already exist out there, I’ve just never seen them. But knowing Winwing’s reputation for building good equipment for DCS I was just wondering if they’ve ever considered it, cause I’d definitely spring for it.
I am unaware of any plans, even what's up on the next review item, so I cannot help you. Sorry,
It’s all good Wild Bill, just tossing it out there. No pressure from me, if it happens, I’ll be excited and all over it.
Did they get parts in for it yet. Last time I checked they were having distributor/logistical issues. I guess I'll check the site again.
They did. I believe they are shipping as of a day or two ago.
nope, still out of stock as of 5 minutes ago from their store
@@gaudin5573 Damn. I know they started shipping again on the 16th. It's likely going to be a hot item for quite a while.
Just saw a Winwing update. It appears they'll open pre-buys again on the 20th. You may want to take another look.
So this system works with the FA-18 (obviously), the F-16, and apparently the AH-64. So does that mean it's not possible to set it up with say, the JF-17 (which also has three displays), or maybe even DCS's newest cool guy jet, the F-15E? I mean, they have a set of throttle handles specifically modeled after the F-15E throttles, and the FA-18 stick grip is almost identical to the F-15E stick grip. Surely this MIP system can work with a Strike Eagle???
Does the $825 Winwing Top Gun package include the MFD screens? (their website could use some attention/expansion)
Yes it does
So DCS doesn't work with the MFD displays in VR, so if you get the "VR" version of the MFD's what's in the center of them? is it just plastic or something?
If you look closely to the unboxing, then Skil's demonstration of the AH-64, you'll see the supplied black aluminum backing plates.
The Phoenix kit comes with black metal (aluminium) plates which can be fitted in the centre of the MFDs. They are actually very nicely made.
@grimreapers I'm about to buy the f18 topgun mips package along with more control add ons via winwing. Can you tell me what the warranty is on your topgun package? I can't find that info via there site etc. can you tell me if the winwing fixed the software issues that ive seen/read about in the past? I don't want to spend over $1,300 on winwing if its unreasonably buggy and or customer service is as bad as ive heard too. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
can you hide the cockpit ingame and only show the HUD on the screen ingame?
Being Scottish, my head always wants to swap Kelso and Skill around :) Good review as always.
🤣 Thank you Jonathan. Skil, being active duty LEO, and me retired LEO, we're likely to tag team you and all have a pint after 🍻. Thanks again for commenting. 👍
Indeed. I have friends in Kelso.
SimApp Pro used to have a big impact on FPS. is that sill an issue?
Javier, I checked it, with and without SimApp running, and couldn't find the old FPS eating problem with the current version of SimApp.
Thanks!@@wildbillkelso2083 That's good to know. I'm running my panels without SimApp Pro because of that issue and will give it a try. I might even consider getting the Top Gun at some point in the future...
@@Jafergon You won't be disappointed. 👍
Hey that was fixed as of August. Heres a video showing the fix, Winwing added it in their software early Sept. It was due to how they were exporting UDP messages.
Video showcasing fix (Not needed anymore as WW added by default)
th-cam.com/video/3TzNOnOYDbg/w-d-xo.html
Would have been good to see some TGP footage on the screens.
AND, that was the rub. We tried to fly the aircraft and film at the same time. Like I mentioned in the video, we wasted days trying to do just that. It was impossible to fly, in the exact same physical position the camera needed to be to film. I bought and used a chest rig for the camera for a whole day in several attempts. In the low light needed to get a good shot, the shutter speed was so slow, that every little breath or micro-tremor would shake the camera enough to streak and make the image fuzzy.
@@wildbillkelso2083 I wouldn’t bother with split screen. I’d just be happy to see some footage of the screen to gauge the quality of the image. Would it work with a track file replay?
How many usb slots does it take up if you use hubs?
Hello I'm have a problem with when i use the center MFD it work on the right MFD and the same for the left do you have a video on how to program this MFDS so each works individual can you help me thank you
Can you share a video on mounting the equipment and cable management ?
Timbo, a video is not really required for assembly. If you follow the documents and diagrams closely you'll be fine. I'd recommend having a lot of space. I assembled mine, clamping it to the bar-counter space in our kitchen. Make sure to assemble it over a hard surface. There are many small nuts/bolts that will disappear in a carpet.
@@wildbillkelso2083 Thanks for the guidance , nevertheless it would be excellent to show how you mounted the equipment onto a Monstertech configuration using 4080 mounts , plus a sensible way to cable management. Always good to share best practise and take the lead from Grim Reapers
I can't post images here, but I'll put some images up of how i have it mounted and cable managed on our Discord. 👍
@@skilgannon5069 thanks dude , all ideas help
@@skilgannon5069 please note your Discord link does not work , maybe use Facebook ?
I wish there's more universal kit that can be used for A10C2's, JF17, Mirage, etc
They are planning to have more activation choices with future updates. I'm sure the AV8B, A-10, Mirage and others will follow.
@@wildbillkelso2083 That would be lovely. I mean I'm still miles away from having even a decent setup, as of right now I hold my joystick between my legs and the throttle is clamped to my arm rest lol :D far from ideal
@@rixogtr It is a pricey hobby to be sure. Chip away at it, a little at a time or . . . . you could always sell a kidney. 🤪
@@wildbillkelso2083 Oh yeah, or start OF or something like that :D
My biggest problem is that I want to use the computer for normal stuff which means I can't build any sim oriented rig and that makes it hard to get around with setups. Any ideas how I could comfortably and quickly mount/dismount my hotas, possibly the WIP panels to switch from sim playing to normal pc work ?
@@rixogtr fortunately the MIP is very quick and easy to un-mount and move.
I also use my PC for other things, well games, so all of my flight sim gear is set up or mounted so that I can move it out of the way easily.
I want tot know one thing, when I have this Top Gun MIP can I use this MIP in another module?
Hey guys! Does anyone know if the entire 3-MFD and UFC installation fits with Winwing's extended mount for the Libra F18 stick?
I use the full Phoenix kit with a Super Libra and an extension. I have no issues, although my Libra is mounted to a wheelstand pro, so not attached to the MFDs/UFC or the table they are mounted to.
Is this bluish tint on the displays or a camera bug?
The displays look perfect. It's the bad lighting of my camera. 😀
@@wildbillkelso2083 Sweet, thanks! I'd have been pretty disappointed if that's how it looked.
If they made one of these for the F-16, I'd buy one quicker than you could say "where tf are you even going to put it?"
EDIT: Well...it does KINDA work with the F-16...kinda...
Hahahaha, time for a second flight rig. You deserve one. 😂
@@wildbillkelso2083 I can already BARELY walk in there! I really need to sell a bunch of stuff...lol
@@rmp5s There ya go.👍😄
If only I didn't fly exclusively in VR....
Indeed.
VR is a superior experience.
A nice widescreen & TrackIR isnt a bad alternative.
I also fly exclusively in VR, that's what the Phoenix MIP is for (no screens).
It it surprisingly easy and quick to get used to reaching out and using the controls and buttons in VR.
+GrimReapersAtomic *WinWinG seems reliable enough, but the corner panel has the wrong layout.*
Atomic, tell the nice bartender that you've had enough. 🤣
Hi Guys, does anyone know if you need an Winwing flightstick to use an Wingwin throttle in DCS and MFS or can you use them stand alone?
Hi Robin, you do not need a WW flightstick to use a WW throttle. Each component from WW is a separate windows device and is bound separately. Each can be used in any game were you bind control buttons/switches/etc to a control action.
@@wildbillkelso2083 Thanks for your help 👍
@@robinschingen6757 You are welcome.
I’ve been tryna buy one where did You find it there all out of stock??
Bull, their store site just posted a notification that they'll start taking orders on the 20th. You might want to check again. Good luck sir.
@@wildbillkelso2083 oh fr I checked two days ago and didn’t see anything, that helps a lot thanks!!!
@@wildbillkelso2083 I just checked tho and only one part of the entire kit is going to be in stock I need the whole thing
L...... Skil it's for you for Christmas
Thanks!! 🤣
VR!
VR for the win!!👍
Is this also working in microsoft Flightsimulator 2020
Hey guys, I bought the 60watt sabrent USB hub as I was getting ghost inputs from my devices, which I understand is because of lack of power from onboard USB. Unfortunately it's not solved it, I've not got a drastic amount of stuff on it either:
Pimax 8kx
X56 throttle and stick
Two MFDs (no screens)
Keyboard and mouse
Any ideas?
What I'm experiencing is my throttle and one of the MFDs is randomly pressing buttons, strangely it seems to be the same buttons every time.
I have had alot.more devices than you plugged in with no ghost inputs. Have you tried just having the problematic devices plugged in alone to see if the problem persists?
would buy it if i won the lottery, sadly you gotta buy a ticket to win which i will not be doing
Can you do a video with the uk Air Force please?
OK
If I ever get rich... 🥺
I Bought a Winwing Set and the z-axis, and Winwing seems to show no interest in the demands for the z-axis, no timeline on whether or not there is even one coming out....joystick and throttle are pretty useless to me with no z-axis, and just lying there collecting dust - and no I do not want rudder throttle as an option, it's my choice.
lol "we took 5 days making a bunch of footage, then didn't actually use it"
RIP
Is it just me or does a Scot just sound more trustworthy?
Like, they're not here to mess around. They're only here for the truth.
Anything that ISN'T the truth gets wee headbutted halfway across the UK.
If he says a thing is good then a thing is good yeah.
Haha, thanks!!🤣👍
Oh, hell yes! I'm the untrustworthy weasel of the team. 🤣
Did anyone ask winwing about a collective for ah64?
There are no more collectives planned in their lineup
So are these made of plastic or metal? All I heard was "top-of-the-range quality". Not super descriptive.
Hi Buzz. They are plastic. Very sturdy construction.
Yes, sorry, I should have been a bit more specific. All of the controls are made of what feels like a high quality plastic.
They all feel sturdy and I found there to be no flex or movement under normal use.
They always sold out :(
Not a fan of simap pro
It's improved over the years. I'm not a fan of running anything in the background either. The MFD's/Screens/HUD works without SimApp in the background. Only the UFC needs it currently. Hope they can solve the SimApp running in the background bit.
@@wildbillkelso2083 I only have the CRP from WinWing
@@mcelravys I love mine. It does not require SimApp in the background though. The only thing that currently requires it is the UFC.
SPONSORED BY WING WING TECHNOLOGIES...
Not anymore, GR haven't been sponsored by Winwing for a wee while now.
@@skilgannon5069 i know it was just a joke.
As far as I can tell from the footage, this would *NOT* be recommended for anyone sensitive to latency or looking to minimize their button-to-display total input lag.
Single-Player and non-competative Multi-Player should be 'fine' for most people, but it's still a totally unnecessary cost-cutting measure on a product like this.
It looks like the buttons have around 8 frames (@ 60Hz: 16.67ms * 8 = 133.36ms) of input lag to the display, while the LCDs seem to have a WtB response time of 4-5 frames (66.7ms ~ 83.35ms, just for WtB, *not* input lag, nor the full G2G response time).
The input lag might be coming from their software interface and/or synchronization method with DCS (I understand the visual feedback needing state synchronization with DCS, but why can't the button inputs not just directly bypass all of that and just be handled by the standard Microsoft drivers, via DirectInput and DCS's built-in button mapping? However if it's caused by the hardware implementation...), while the LCD panels they've chosen to use for the MFDs has a pixel response time so slow that you can count it on 60 fps camera footage!
Specifically, I consistently get 4-5 frames when looking at transitions when more than 1 MFD LCD is switching, such as at 9:38 (1.e. 66.7ms ~ 83.35ms. Note, this is only for *one* white to black transition, thus 'true' G2G response time would be much slower, which could easily reach > *100ms!* for certain transition pairs.).
Martlet, any perceived lag you were measuring was caused by the inability to sync the live vs DCS videos in the split screens. In real life, the monitor/screens appear to match perfectly.
Erm, the button presses do go directly to DCS, there is no lag introduced by Winwing software between the button press and the action in DCS.
I can be sure of this as I do not have Simapp running when playing DCS.
Cheers for your slightly bizarre observation though. 👍