Why Does the Kelvin Timeline Look So Different?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2024
- The Hobus Supernova created a whole new alternate timeline for Star Trek, the 2009 films, the Kelvin Timeline.
But why did it visually turn out so different?
Let's look at the in-universe reasons that the designs of Starfleet's most iconic ships, like the Enterprise were altered so radically.
As usual we turn to the books and games surrounding Star Trek to find our answers.
And they involve the Borg.
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So I feel the need to clarify. At 49 seconds in I state that I'm not looking at real world licence agreements but I'm well aware of the real world financial motivations. This video focuses on in-universe reasons for the differing appearance that are brought up by Memory Beta content. Thank you for reading this before commenting.
I think a better theory is that instead of simply traveling backwards through time, they slipped into a parallel universe as well. Substantially similar, but not exactly the same. That would account for different styling and some other variations. However, that wouldn't cause the Constitution class to be built 13 years later because an impending threat doesn't delay new development, it accelerates it, as we've seen in real war. The Constitution class, with all its development work already done, would be built as-designed with only minor modifications and follow-on designs would be accelerated. Now, here's where my memory is a bit hazy, but I do not recall them actually saying the Enterprise in the movie was Constitution-class. This means that it's entirely possible this Enterprise was not Constitution-class and is actually of one of the follow-on designs. This would actually make everything make sense, that she's midway between a Constitution and an Excelsior timeline-wise, BUT because of the accelerated development she's a fair bit ahead of where Federation ships of the prime universe were at that time. It is also possible that, due to parallel universe variations, the name Constitution was not awarded to that earlier class (even though the design wound up being built substantially similar) and it was instead simply given to a later class of ship.
there's no prime time *there is cannon and kelvin time* with it's products such as prime time and it's own mirror universe
As Chief O'Brien likes to state: "I hate Space-Time Mechanics."
As somebody who reviews Star Wars books and comics, that Order 66 joke really made me giggle lol!
Star Trek has lost plot; the only reason for the, "Kelvin," rubbish is a crap licensing agreement intended to divvy up the anticipated profits that were expected to arise from rebooting the franchise, so they had to blow up Vulcan and the idea that Benedict Cumberbach could possibly become Khan in any universe was so completely absurd that the whole stupid idea chocked to death on it's own greed driven ridiculousness.
Lets face not even the, "fans," wanted to watch it and no one really cares what they think anyway
Romulan tech is green. Borg tech is green. So they're compatible.
Federation tech is blue. Obviously incompatible.
This is the power math people
XD
So, all we need now, is a red, Kamala class tech.
Ehem... assimilated voyager....
Klingon is red, Incompatable.
Dominion is Purple. Incompatible
Romulan is grée. Compatible.
Starfleet is blue. Incompatible
The Kelvin universe is a prime example of why the Temporal Prime Directive, and the Prime Directive in general is absolutely necessary.
this may be an unpopular opinion....but I have always hated the time travel shit in star trek.
Prime Directive - like other invented rules - is meaningless if it can be ignored and can't be enforced.
Useless when klingons enslave primitive planets, when vengeful future-romulans kill advanced planets.
Especially in the case of ST Picard and Discovery. NUKE IT FROM ORBIT. ITS THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE.
@@tsdobbi Time Travel in my view always needed to have a point. Whether it’s allowing events to play out and not using the power of foreknowledge to effect a life… aka Edith Keelers unfortunate death, or setting right what once went wrong (cough)
The temporal Cold War in ENT was an interesting premise when it dealt with future events, but going back to WW2 with nazi aliens was essentially just a romp. Romps can be fun, but to much time travel without purpose leads to a forgettable, or unfortunate episode.
Take The TNG episode where Picard and Guinan first meet, Pretty sure aliens were mucking around with history, but no one remembers that. All they know is Data’s head came off and Picard and Guinan… met for a few hours? The episode should have focused on that relationship because the connection between them felt kinda rushed in a way that didn’t support the later friendship… unless you look at it from a 4th dimensional perspective where they decided to become friends are different points in time. Dr Who knew how to pull that off but Trek tried and failed to carry that POV to the audience.
@@tsdobbi even First Contact??!!!
Personally I just assume the Kelvin Timeline was ALWAYS an alternate universe even before the Narada's incursion. Similar to how the Prime Timeline's Defiant was sent back to the Enterprise-era Mirror Universe. That's an easier handwave to explain the continuity disparities than saying the Narada Incursion created an alternate reality, and fits more in line with previous Trek's time travel rules.
Considering the way they also traveled, it's probable they did indeed skip to a different universe. The jump was subtle, but obviously noticeable.
There were already massive discrepancies BEFORE the Nerada arrived. They format their stardates differently, their ships work differently, are a different scale, etc. Spock jumped back and into a different mirror universe. There's the only explanation for so many changes.
That's have always been my primary suspiction also, in the kelvin timeline Spock actually is born three year before his origin birth, Jonathan Archer is still alive in 2258, but he is now an aging and retired admiral, which doesn't make much sense if he was the first elected President of the Federation. In fact, i did read somewhere that the creator of the plot of the Kelvin timeline were concern about the fact that essentially their movie would have erased the entire continuity of Star Trek lore and that it could have therefore alienated much of the fan community. As such, they did make an escape route that it would explained how when Nero and Spock passed first in the black hole they not only where throw back in time, but also in another parallel reality, which while far more similar to the original Star Trek universe, would have also explain any and all potential divergence in the plot and lore production. Apparently, they even were considering making a scene when the two Spock meet in which the Prime Spock would have realized this fact while speaking with his counterpart, but itwas later never make due to production costs and the producer thinking it would have make the all plot losing its value with the fan(since it's not technically the same Star Trek universe ), thus personally to me it would have made much more sense and explain also why Nero never returned to Romulous after going back in time, since it could have been explained that Nero did realize that it was actually throw in an entire different universe and therefore there was not way he could have return back to his true home.
@@francescosaporiti1431 oh and the deleted scenes where Nero and co were held at rura penthe the entire time? Like, the klingons just left that ship alone the entire time? And in the countdown comic they went and used Vger to find Spock?? Very much a stretch.
It has to be an alternate timeline because the u s s. Kelvin was never that big . Kelvin class vessel cree compliment was 120 max not 800.
"My advice on making sense of temporal paradoxes is simple: don't even try."- Captain Janeway
Janeway is a boss.
"If we don't learn to take care of ourselves someone else will." - Babylon 5
"I hate temporal mechanics!" - Both Miles O'Briens
It actually makes a lot of sense, when you realize there are these extra-dimensional creatures called movie-studio executives, who will fck-up any universe's timeline for a quick buck.
@@benoosthoek Y E S
Levels of understanding of time travel. Level 1 - Basic: time splits. Level 2 - Advanced: time bends. Level 3 - Proper: wibbly wobbly, timey wimey...
Level 4 - Whatever The Fuck Homestuck Is: there are multiple timelines, but only one is truly canon, but all are canon, and nothing can be changed, except everything can, but it fucks everything up, except for when a character is retconning stuff.
Wait- What? Level 3? THREE!?! Are you kidding? It's got to be at least Twice that for any of this to make sense... Still, no... You're talking about a prime universe and basic split... Still "Advanced : theory at Level 3 and you've go what a "bend"? Pshaw! A Bend? What are we at the pub having a pint? Where's your Bootstrap Paraodox? Universal comstant faster than what? Faster than Light? No, seriously just no, Just start over. [Erases everything.]
Take that Level 3 and doubke it there,,, Ok at 6, well it's a start, but those first two levels are pretty much rubbish. What's this other stuff you've got? A Gslsctic Barrier? Ohhh two of them? Isn't that convenient? Omega particles that can blow up what now? Ohh I see. [Chcuckles] I knew a fellow named Omega, now that was a nasty piece of work. But where were we? Level 3,,,
Right. Take that and double it, now six, that's a good start. Six senses, six sides on a cube... I'd say double it, but then we'd be here forever working out the maths. But In real-space...It'd never work No, ok. factor out the first two, total rubbish and then add them to the six/// but that would only really work with N Space geoimetry, but let's just take that as a given, Yes N-Space is a real thing! Yes just trust me on that! OK? Okay now what have you got eight? What? Eight? Okay, that's good. Now just take that 8 and turn it ninety degrees and what've you got? Ahh? Now you're getting it!
Jeremy Bearimy*
@@DJCornelis Easily one of the best shows in history.
@@spark9189 It's linearity of the loop...
Basically, all of the time travel is happening in one slightly larger timeline that keeps it all contained.
I could easily represent this with some rather simple weaving, but I don't have sewing materials or the software alternative.
I would freaking LOVE to see what later Kelvin-timeline ships (i.e. Galaxy- and Nebula-class) would look like and what their capabilities would be.
They would be at least bigger than their prime variants, and maybe loaded with more weapons.
@@CalvinNoire certainly would be. Just take a look at the development of warships in real life. A 7k long ton destroyer in 1945 would be pretty impressive with its 4 or 5 five or five and a half inch guns and numerous anti air weapons. We're as if we go just 75 years in the future. We see ships of the same type gain an extra 2k tons of displacement and upgrade to fast firing 127mm guns firing advanced ammunition up to 30 rounds per minute. Not to mention the up too 97 cruise missle launch tubes that are present on a modern Burke class destroyer. The reason this matters is because there are other counties still building 5k to 7k ton displacement destroyers. And those ships have infinitely less offensive capabilities in a package only 2k tons smaller. The kelvin constitution was SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the TOS constitution. Probably having multiple times the displacement. Imagine applying the same logic of real life too that, a ship only 30% larger than its contemporaries can carry 3x the firepower. Now how about a galexy class that's 4 times LARGER than the main timeline.
Voyager probably got home in days if the ships kept advancing at the speed they did
There were NO 7k ton destroyers in WW2. You’re looking at half that for a Sumner for example, biggest of the late war USN DD’s.
Around 7k tons you’re looking at a CL like Alanta which has more than double the firepower of a WW2 DD.
The Titan in ST: Picard is a good example, no?
The thing I hated was that he was back in time so he had a chance to save his planet from exploding again. But nope decided to be stupid af and try and get revenge instead.
Well, given that Romulus wouldn't be destroyed for over 100 years, he maybe figured he had time for both. He did not count on LOSING, after all.
As far as he was concerned his family was dead. His wife wasn’t even born in this timeline so his life was drastically changed
@@Milkman69ner but he could have changed it for his future self.
Saad Qureshi yes but imagine there are two copies of you and your family. If your copies family dies you don’t care as it’s not your family. If your family dies but the copies remain that’s not your family so it will affect you more. Why would he care about his future self. His life is ruined in his eyes
One of the MANY MANY reasons why the reboot movie was complete garbage.
Nero was fiddling around while Romulus burned
Wait....
"Nero Fiddles, Narada Burns" - actual movie score song name.
Nero screwed around on his wife. He was cheating while Romulas burned.
@@aevangel1 this cool 😎
I just thought of something.
Q revealed himself to Picard because they'd come so far from home without being ready for things like the Borg. But... now they've seen the Borg, plus more.
The Kelvin Timeline could possibly never come into contact with the Q Continuum. There's no need this time around.
Do you think Q would pass up a chance to mess with Picard in some other way?
They haven't seen the borg, the only person who knows about the Borg was original spock, who swore never to reveal important future knowledge like that.
@@GemmaHentsch Until you mention Khan, then he spilled the beans
I mean the Q are smart and usually well behaved. Except Q and his son Q, Janeway's nephew. The rest are chill. So they wouldnt mess up again with any captain anymore.
They probably do since Q aren’t apart of the space- time contiuum.
what about the time police from the 30th century introduced by voyager. they should have stopped Nero
"We do not discuss time paradoxes."
And what about Daniels who was seen in Enterprise
Temporal agents may not exist in the new time line.
When Nero and Spock went back in time, it created an alternate timeline called the Kelvin Timeline. Since the Kelvin Timeline is separate from the Prime timeline, whatever Nero and Spock done in the past has no effect on the Prime Timeline because they're in the Kelvin Timeline. Temporal Agents in the 30th century probably did detected Spock and Nero going back in time through the black hole...but since the was no temporal change in the Prime Timeline, they left things as they are.
@@sonofwhat2615 Maybe you're right, but the time travel in the prime timeline caused many changesin that universe, something confusing this time line
I went in to the 2009 knowing they'd be facing Romulans, they had put that out there before the movies release.
My very first thought upon seeing the Narada was "that's not Romulans. That's Borg."
And I was kind of right....
When I first saw the movie I thought the same... The whole look and sound of the Narada was adapted Borg tech.
Was kinda hoping they'd show up... 😂
They were miners...they mined it
@Dj Nichols iphone thumbs
It was an adapted mining vessel, it had sod all to do with the Borg. They were not even thought about at this time.... But it'll be interesting to see a Kelvin timeline Borg race...
Darran Sykes the background info from before the movie was released states that the Narada was upgraded by the Tal Shiar with Borg tech.
"A wall of fiery explode." I'm gonna have to use that one at some point.
You mentioned something here that I fully appreciate about Star Trek Beyond. Even though the villain is kind of weak, the Enterprise and her crew really feel like they're explorers again.
Honestly, I want to see a TNG show but in the Kelvin timeline. The Kelvin Constitution class is as big as a sovereign class, so imagine the size of the galaxy and sovereign classes in the Kelvin Timeline.
They would never build a glorified cruise ship like the galaxy.
The only reason the Kelvin Connie ended up being so big was because they wanted to fit so many shuttles in the ass end. Total retcon.
I guess they actually fucked it up because they kept using imperial AND metric units.
The ship was supposed to be just ~700f long, now it ended up beeing ~700m long, i guess they just "went with it", that mentality seemed to be a reoccuring thing in the Kelvin Timeline.
I doesnt make sense to build such a big ass ship in that era.
So a federation starship as big as a borg cube. Cool.
Well if you go by the logic in the video the size difference should be negligible if it exists at all by the time of the next generation they would have been able to miniaturize the tech by then
Copyright: *Exists, necessitating design changes*
Ancient Aliens meme guy: “I’m not saying it’s the Borg, but it’s the Borg.”
Borg technology is essentially self replicating nanites. If they ever visited, the nanites should be ubiquitous.
@@johnwang9914 Quote: "Borg technology is essentially self replicating nanites."
No, it _really_ isn't! I think you've been watching a little too much Stargate: SG1, without paying enough attention. Machines of this scale still behave like machines - they follow their programming, and *unless* one of their primary directives is to *unconditionally* replicate/reproduce, without regard for environmental variables (such as the existence of life, or an 'enable'/'disable' signal), then the process of _self-replication will_ *_only_* _occur as programming dictates_ (i.e. as/when required).
However, should corruption of the code eventuate, which is entirely plausible given that _all_ forms of replication, reproduction, duplication etc. (of electronic _or_ organic forms of information), are prone to errors, it could lead to a state of *_unconstrained replication_* which would rapidly devour a world.
Of course, this behaviour could also be coded for _intentionally,_ by a madman!
Nanomachines following such wayward instructions would strip planets of all resources requisite to that imperative for incessant replication. This would - _incidentally_ - annihilate virtually any life it encountered, for the want of the small quantities of useful elements, molecules, and compounds, contained within.
This "doomsday" nano-tech scenario has been played out graphically in at least one documentary that I've seen, and also - with a bit of a twist - in a Stargate episode where a world had been almost entirely converted into "replicators", or pieces thereof, and thus depleted of energy sources and construction materials.
By the way, something that _is_ inarguably ubiquitous, with regard to the vast majority of TH-cam commentators, would be the Dunning-Kruger effect.
@@anhedonianepiphany5588 Are you saying Voyager didn't use Borg nanites from 7 of 9 to make torpedoes to use against species 8472 or that the Borg don't assimilate by injecting nanites into their victims? I never said anything about the morphing ability of SG1's nanites and to be frank, those were replicators. In truth, nanites would be more similar to viruses and bacteria than anything in either series, indeed it could be said that prions, phages, viruses and bacteria are nature's nanites and we probably won't be able to achieve functionality beyond what nature has evolved over billions of years.
@@johnwang9914 No. He's saying that without some sort of stimulus to order replication the nanites won't bother doing so, largely because setting that as the default may have nasty consequences for anything not entirely made of nanomachines, such as the Borg's biological substrate.
The Borg have nothing on The Lawyers
I dont understand the "you tried to help me but failed, now i want revenge" trope...
Probably because it's a sucky and contrived premise.
@@Quimper111 are you kidding? It happens all the time in real life. Just Google lawsuits against fire departments/police/ambulance companies/ hospitals etc.
Then you don't understand the romulan mindset...Don't forget..even though Nero wasn't Romulan himself...He was still part of the Romulan Empire...and Vengeance was deep into how they think....and they hated the Federation with a passion then.
@@shawnarthur5921 yeah but he literally traveled back in time and could save his planet again tho.
@@saadqureshi7127 it's not his planet. He knows that. Vengeance is the only recourse left to him, in his mind.
Why does the Kelvin timeline look so different? Lens flares. Lots and lots of lens flares.
And Beastie Boys
The movies get criticized for that a lot, but a lot of real life footage from space stations have a buttload of lens flares so it’s surprisingly realistic
@@TW-sh2un What space stations are you looking at where you see lens flares everywhere?
Trevor H The International space station. Granted, it’s primarily just the Sun, but in certain footage of Chris Hadfield videos, light reflecting off the Earth/other parts of the station also cause some lens flares
Trevor H Seach “sunset timelapse from international space station” You’ll get a super cool view of the lens flare type effect the sun makes on their cameras
The problem I have with this whole alternate timeline thing is that Star Trek has already established that changes in the past effect the current timeline. When the Enterprise-C accidentally traveled to the future the timeline was immediately changed, leaving the Enterprise-D a warship. Kirk and Spock had to stop McCoy from saving a woman in the past because the federation no longer existed. Had the Enterprise-E not been caught in the wake of a temporal vortex, they would have been erased from history by the Borg.
Yet Nero going back in time creates this entire new timeline while the prime timeline is fine and unaffected.
Travis Breazile technically you’re both right and wrong... you can only time travel once in any timeline before you’ve created an alternate reality. Assuming you’re in the original timeline then TOS is correct. Past events affect the future and altering either end of the timeline will impact your perspective. But if you’re in the paradoxical timeline created AFTER the prime universe has been altered then you’re already IN the altered timeline in your own perspective so your actions will not change the outcome.
Both scenarios are correct and incorrect depending on which universe you’re in. The kelvin timeline took place in universe C. While the initial time travel event happened in universe B. The prime timeline no longer exists because of the initial event in the 24th century. Instead the new prime timeline is the one where ambassador Spock traveled back with Nero and entered universe C. The kelvin line.
And the reason I say the prime timeline no longer exists is because the prime timeline has ambassador Spock in it without going back in time. Prime became B. And created C.
Remember that TNG episode where Word is shifting between different realities? I think it was Data who theorized that every possible outcome happens and starts an alternate reality and Worf was shifting in and out of them. Anyway, that theory could explain what you're asking.
Also the Kelvin fit in really well in that alternate universe too.
The designs didn't change
@@fortunatejeremy TNG also had an episode where a hundred different _Enterprises_ popped into the same spot, they were all of different alternate universes, and of course there's the original Mirror Verse. It's already long established canon that alternate universes exist.
So I simply view it that the JJ timeline was always an alternative universe, just it was one that was originally following the "normal" prime timeline until the time travel incident.
Thanks for explaining why those 'newer' films were so different from the original series, movies and TNG/DS9/Voy and why everything's changed. I just hoped it didn't mean the 'prime timeline' ceased to exist.
No, for the rational minds amongst the fandom everything that's been written since then is not canon. The reboots, kelvin, discovery and SNW are all bad fan fic. Even Picard seasons 1 and 2 are terrible, destroying the lore and premise of what came before. Season three at least is better, but only because the people who had previously been in charge were tired of dragging Trek through the mud and gave it to someone who actually gave a damn about treating the characters, story and fans with respect.
I feel like without Vulcan's influence in starfleet, the Federation ships should be way more powerful and ready for war unlike that only one designed by Kahn
I dunno, Vulcan engineering was always pretty good at making rather potent combat vessels. Just look at sonething like the D'kyr class for proof of that.
Personally, I go by Simon Pegg's explanation of the Kelvin Timeline he gave when talking about 'ST:Beyond' since it explains things such as radically changed ages/birthdates and why things that are Pre-Kelvin are different:
"Spock’s incursion from the Prime Universe created a multidimensional reality shift. The rift in space/time created an entirely new reality in all directions, top to bottom, from the Big Bang to the end of everything. As such this reality was, is and always will be subtly different from the Prime Universe. I don’t believe for one second that Gene Roddenberry wouldn’t have loved the idea of an alternate reality (Mirror, Mirror anyone?). This means, and this is absolutely key, the Kelvin universe can evolve and change in ways that don’t necessarily have to follow the Prime Universe at any point in history, before or after the events of Star Trek ‘09."
Basically, the Kelvin Timeline is more akin to the Mirror Universe except that it was originally only slightly different from the Prime Universe (maybe Archer made a right turn when exploring in the Kelvin Timeline when in the Prime he made a left turn or something). The IDW Comics kind of take this stance as well since Prime Spock visits the Kelvin K-7 and he notes that it's broadly the same but there are some very minor differences to the Prime K-7 Station which apparently was constructed Pre-Kelvin incident.
And let's not forget the massive jumps in tech the Mirror Universe Terran Empire got when the USS Intrepid phased out & ended up in the ST-E Mirror Universe. Would they have continued 'normally' in development had the Intrepid gone elsewhere/when? Say, to a alternate timeline where WW3 & the Eugenics Wars *not* happened, and the history of Starfleet played out as a semi-popular science-fiction entertainment program?
@@TheHorndOne that was the Defiant (NCC-1764) which probably has a record for showing up/effecting events in three series now (and is a decent part of STO's Agents of Yesterday TOS campaign). As for tech in the Mirror Universe they probably need infusions of tech since a lot of advancements are probably horded and they are overall a bit less concerned about tech and research than the Federation. Without infusions they would probably be behind the Prime. Also WW3 & the Eugenics war would have happened by then (if they happened in the MU)
The Mirror Universe seems to have always been a bit darker than prime, Mirror Phlox notes that characters in prime were meeker with the exception of Shakespeare who was apparently equally grim. Which is in line with some Beta sources which have the characters in literature being more brutal back to Homer's Iliad with Achilles killing King Priam instead of returning Hector's body so he could have a funeral.
As an aside I want a series where Daniels or someone steals back that upgraded Defiant and runs off exploring or getting lost in the Trek Multiverse and trying to get back to Prime.
Two words lazy writing
Dude no matter how much you explain it, the "it's not Star trek" crowd is still gonna complain. But awesome explanation.
This expiration satisfies me entirely as I always felt having the Kelvin timeline be that, a new branch of time, felt false. After all, if it was simply a temporal incursion event why didn't the time cops show up like in Agents of Future Past or ENT?
My friends and I, huge Trek neeeeerds all, have come to the conclusion that the Kelvin timeline is the result of divergence from the main timeline much further back than the Kelvin incident: Star Trek: First Contact. Contact with the Enterprise-E, not to mention probable Borg remains in orbit, would have given Earth, if not a moderate technological leg up, a significant motivation to advance at a faster pace, not to mention a slightly more militaristic outlook shown in Enterprise.
Yes, we consider Enterprise to be part of this new divergence. Why? The first episode of Enterprise shows the Zephram Cochram of First Contact giving a speech. Admiral Archer is referenced in the first JJVerse Star Trek. The NX Enterprise is shown on the desk of Admiral Robocop in the line of Enterprises.
So the insertion of the Narada, while significant, was not the break point. The Kelvin is already much different, and far more advanced, than anything of comparable technology in the main timeline due the far earlier break point of First Contact.
In the deleted shot in admiral RoboCop's office... Hanging from the ceiling is a large Constitution model that looks like a cross between TOS and STD Enterprise.... Hmmmmm
In a meta sense, I'm going to say a prototype model for the Enterprise. In an in-canon sense, could just be a "minor refit" of the standard JJ-Connie.
I thought I was alloooone!!!! Thank you!
@@russelljackman9629 no. Watch the scene. It's very much an updated TOS Enterprise. Nothing like there jj prize or even STD prize.
In all honesty, Canon Prime-ST pre Kelvin (and Pre-FIrst Contact, for those that favor that explanation) provides a simple answer; ANY messing about with timelines causes "ripples" along the WHOLE timeline, not just into the future but the past as well.
So, in 1981, at the end of the day during one of my elementary grade school days, for some reason out in the parking lot, there was a girl who had a model kit open and was looking through it. It was an AMT or Revell model kit of the the U.S.S. Enterprise. She let me look at it in detail, and the thing that jumped out at me were the pictures on the inside and outside on the box. I remember seeing the lines on the pylons being curved. It had big round Bussard collectors, and the navigation dish was slightly off-set from the hull. And the colors were bright white and blue. I was amazed by this 'different' version of the Enterprise. I'd never seen it before.
Our whole family was very into Star Trek at the time, so I came home looking for one of my brothers TOS Enterprise models. Sure enough it was very different from what that girl had. I was totally confused and brooded over what I had saw constantly. I never could find the girl to ask her what that model was despite looking for her all the time after school.
A year or so later, my dad took me and my brothers to see Wrath of Khan (I guess he felt I was too young to take to TMP), and I had learned there was a 'movie' Enterprise. I had hoped that this would be the big reveal that would show me that this girl had the Enterprise from the movies. When I saw the newer Enterprise refit, I was disappointed and still bewildered. It was not the same ship.
Fast forward to Star Trek 2009... the SECOND I laid eyes on this 'Kelvin' Enterprise, I knew that was it. In fact, if you pause this video at 8:55, this is exactly the picture on the box cover of the model the girl had. It was like she had some sort of model sent to her from the future. Or... was this some MAJOR Mandela Effect? Crazy stuff.
HUH?
A time traveler? Maybe we are in the Kelvin timeline...
I like to think the borg wreckage found in the north pole during Enterprise probably is the true divergent point in the timelines. They probably only found tid bits up there but it would of been enough to steer every aspect of everything subtly and set the stage for the Kelvin encounter which took the subtle steering and did a hard right.
When those Borg drones awakened, they took everything with them as a result. There was only the research outpost was all there is.
Back around closer to 2009 I recall reading something somewhere that one of the reasons they decide to build bigger ships (and indeed why the Kelvin is bigger too) is something to do with an earlier point of divergence where Starfleet found a shell of a crashed 1st federation ship. *that might even be where the multiple warp core idea came from too*
Though I don't have a huge issue with the timeline chicanery due to how it MUST have already have been changing over time anyway - the past that Wesley Crusher learned in school isn't the same one Kirk learned as a child and the past as taught to a child in the early 25th Century would be completely different too.
Events from the far future also changed the past too - for example originally the XINDI never attacked earth that is a change in the time line already - so that can also explain the change in technology as Starfleet (of the NX era) had access to some ridiculously advanced tech centuries before they should have - and indeed later Voyager changed it's own timeline too with Admiral Janeway's actions.
This sort of retrospective timeline change might even account for the situation being so different with Discovery too - it could be a daughter timeline of the NX-era changes that were in turn not effected by Nero on this run through.
An analogy is the fantasy/religious idea of an unseen hand with a book of everything that they can scrub things out of and re-write parts (or like the Greek idea of the fates) once one things is changed everything related to that rearranges to compensate. The idea of if this happens backwards in time or not is a complex one.
But just think about the Borg and how they were introduced Q changed the entire fate of the Alpha and Beta Quadrant with his actions of introducing them to Picard. In a way he did them a favor otherwise they'd have been trying to fight the dominion war with the kind of ships that got smashed flat at the Battle of Wolf 359.
But then The Sisko would never have gone to Bajor then either and so the wormhole would remain closed.
The Kelvin timeline is the end result of several changes to the timeline. First Contact created the NX-01 timeline. Zefram Cochrane in the NX-01 time line was more paranoid and militant which was compounded by the discovery of the Borg sphere in Antarctica. Then NX-01 Spock (not Prime Spock) was the one who went back to the Kelvin timeline.
@90 Lancaster.. Nice explanation 👌
This is now my headcannon too.
I mean the Greek god Apollo literally existed in TOS and was aboard the enterprise... by that logic the fates would also exist too
Were gona need a bigger boat, now that is priceless
Next Star Trek: star sized ships
@@bobbiusshadow6985 not like they don't have the tech for a death star. Just not the motivation.
@@bobbiusshadow6985 hmmmm....a Federation ship the size of a Death Star but loaded with weapons technology far in advance of anything employed by the Galactic Empire/First Order (laser based weapons such as the "turbolasers" of Star Wars lore were already at least a century out of date by the late 23rd century)...yeah I'd say the bad guys in the SW universe probably wouldn't know what hit them :P
Starfleet: "Get me Captain Roy Scheider to command the USS Spacequest - STAT!" ;)
@@josephamendolea3431 I mean even one Galaxy Class could fuck a Death Star up, so a Federation Death Star would be pretty overkill, a Borg Death Star would be Overoverkill.
"That's not radiation, that's a firey wall of explode." nice one rick.
So prime Kirk started his command when he was 13 younger than kelvin Kirk??? That's insane, he must have been in high school! Classic prime Kirk, what a guy!
where you get that from? Are you referring to the launch date of the Big E? Kirk is the third captain of the Enterprise in some canon.
It's late 24th century romulan borg technology from the prime timeline..
Actually, I'd argue that the timelines were altered before the Kelvin's destruction. Kelvin herself, her design, interior and exterior, uniforms, etc,. are all radically different fro that of the Prime timeline. Whatever happened to reset continuity happened before the Kelvin went ka-boom. The changes between the Kelvinverse and the Primeverse are too serious to have taken place in only 13 years. No, something else happened.
Personally, I tend to like the idea that the events of First Contact did the trick. After all, they arguably resulted in the NX-01, a ship we had never, ever heard of before. They also introduced Earth to Borg technology, even on a small scale, long before the Kelvin was a dream in its designers' minds. There's more, but that's the basic idea.
Yes, I've been saying this for years. Kelvin is the end result of several changes to the timeline. First Contact created the NX-01 timeline. Zefram Cochrane in the NX-01 time line was more paranoid and militant which was compounded by the discovery of the Borg sphere in Antarctica. Then NX-01 Spock (not Prime Spock) was the one who went back to the Kelvin timeline.
@@KlingonCaptain Yep, very true. Great minds think alike!
For me, the clincher was that aboard the Enterprise-E was that (in)famous wall with models of every Starfleet ship named, "Enterprise." The NX-01 wasn't there. Therefore, it didn't exist in the Prime Timeline. However, with the MACOs, uniforms, and general look of the Franklin, we know that the NX-01 and all that came with Archer's ship and history did exist in the Kelvinverse. You can toss in the fact that in the one or two Enterprise episodes involving the Borg, it was mentioned that Zefram Cochrane rambled on about mechanoid beings and a threat to the future, or some such. That there indicates a shift in the timeline, as Borg interference much earlier in Starfleet's history clearly had an effect.
@@KlingonCaptain sooo first contact created the nx-01 which is now the prime timeline?
STD explains it all, bad writing, pointless plots and of course lens flare. It's the answer to everything Star Trek now. Sad as that may be...
But that ridiculous final episode of Enterprise takes place on the holodeck of the TNG episode "Pegasus". Meaning the NX-01 is part of the prime timeline.
I've argued for a very long time the "Kelvin" timeline split happened in Star Trek: First Contact and that Enterprise takes place there. Enterprise clearly takes place in an alternate timeline because events occur in different order or completely retcon established Prime canon.
This explains why the timeline is already different before the Kelvin Incident. We know it's different right of the bat in the 2009 film because we have James Kirk's mother already in labor on the Kelvin BEFORE the Narada appears when we know in the Prime timeline he was born on Earth in Iowa.
Pixelated Reality I’ve often said the same thing, actually kind of made it my own personal head canon. Federation was researching the Borg Technology in the Enterprise episode Regeneration. That was what, 100 years before Kirk? Perfect explanation for all the differences in the Kelvin movies.
Could it just be that Abrams does not like star trek? And is a lazy ass writer
@@dillionedmonds5736 are you implying that a major studio would hand over a franchise with an obsessive fanbase to someone who doesn't care about the details?
@@Alareth he outright said it in an interview. He never really liked Star Trek and was into Star Wars.
@@Alareth You're dripping sarcasm all over the place. Here's a towel - wipe that up would ya?
When the kelvin timeline was created it was distorted because of the chaotic nature of universe creation. Like throwing a rock in a pond there were ripples that affected the past of this newly created timeline. This new space-time had an altered history where technology developed at a different rate compared to where they should be at as seen in TOS. The same thing likely applies to ENT and DIS as well. When the temporal cold war started it created the ENT universe that diverged from prime timeline. Thanks to the efforts of archer and Daniels by the founding of the federation the timeline was mostly back on track and at least on the way to reconverging and running parallel prime. It's possible that DIS is actually a sequel to the altered ENT universe as opposed to being a prequel to prime TOS which would explain the discrepancies. Either way we know that things eventually have to look like they did in TNG because they show that time period in ENT as proof that the timeline would be restored or at least look identical to prime by then.
except ENT and STD (because it's a fucking DISEASE on Trek) are officially part of the Prime timeline
Actually it's just the *CBS* executives *snorting* tomato mold and hallucinating none *existent* $$$!
@@DanielRichards644 No, STD is not prime
@@celsustruth8202 sorry, but it very much is, no matter how garbage continuity wrecking it is screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-season-2-prime-timeline/
@@DanielRichards644 Alternately, a point to consider- Discovery *is* Prime Timeline, but the 'Prime Timeline' isn't actually TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT as we know them- but rather an alternate-license depiction of that universe skewed through a legally-required 25% difference filter.
th-cam.com/video/ojtX_Oz4WsU/w-d-xo.html
If 'Prime Timeline' doesn't mean what we thought it did, then there are actually three universes: The original Star Trek canon from 1966-2005, the Kelvin Timeline, and the Prime Timeline- which is a version of the events from that first universe presented with 25% alterations.
This could explain so much.
DC's Flashpoint Paradox solved the issue for why travelling back in time could still alter events prior to when you arrive in the new timeline as such: Breaking the Sound Barrier creates a Sonic Boom, breaking the Time Barrier creates a Time Boom, which is a ripple effect that radiates across all of time that can shift every variable.
If memory serves me, James T. Kirk is the 2nd son of George and Wynonna Kirk. Samuel "Only I Called him Sam" Kirk was the firstborn son. Considering that Wynonna was already pregnant with her first child when the Romulans were thrown back in time and forever changed the timeline, the guy in the "Kelvin timeline" is not really James but Samuel.
Who said it was her first child?
George Kirk died with the destruction of the Kelvin, so Wynonna Kirk had to be pregnant with James T. Kirk at the time that the Kelvin encountered the Narada. So your is wrong because if Wynonna Kirk had been pregnant with Sam Kirk instead, James T. Kirk would have ceased to exist because his father would have died before he was born. Also, and this is specifically mentioned in the movie, both George Kirk and Wynonna Kirk specifically discuss naming the child she gives birth to as James Tiberius Kirk (the names being mentioned in the opposite order). Because of this, there is absolutely no way for Jim Kirk to be mistaken for his brother, Sam Kirk, in the 2009 Star Trek movie.
Plus, if you want to delve into the deleted scenes, then the hitchhiking boy Jim passes in the car is his brother.
I've always understood that the USS Kelvin was a huge deep-space exploration ship and it basically got eradicated so starfleet would probably be a little more cautious and militaristic and the ships would be even bigger than the Kelvin and way more powerful.
Playing mass effect theme while talking Star Trek; well done
Due to the licensing restrictions imposed on the Bad Robot (i.e. Kelvinverse) films, the events shown in those films can only be explained canonically as taking place in a completely different universe even before the Kelvin incident. The Bad Robot films cannot represent a divergent timeline from the one in which the TV series we know and love occurred since they cannot use any of the ships, uniforms, or other visual styles that appeared in those shows. That includes Enterprise, which predates the Kelvin incident, and every ship or costume from the past that were shown on screen, such as the Daedalus class ship in Sisko’s office on DS9. If a film depicting the Enterprise era was made under the Bad Robot license, it could not look anything like the time period as depicted in Star Trek Enterprise.
So everyone bad mouthing JJ Abrams is wrong to do so, he couldn't use the exact designs due to licencing and such. He can make a close approximation but not exact and if he was forced to do that, he might as well make use of the fact that we have better special effects and modern tech then we did in 1963.
If you put lipstick on a pig and tell everyone it's your girlfriend, that doesn't make it a woman. JJ Abrams' films are just generic sci-fi action movies that use the names of characters from the original Star Trek, but that doesn't make it Star Trek. The overall tone of his films is nothing like any of the Trek TV series. If you strip away those modern special effects, Abrams' Trek movies are actually rather mundane.
The contracts between Bad Robot and CBS actually dictate that all designs "must be at least 25% different", to be exact. I read this in an article about the original Enterprise's appearance in ST Discovery and why it looked different. The same amount applied to the "Kelvin" timeline.
@Tone Bone, please note that is AT LEAST 25% different; in most cases, they have diverged a lot more than that. Yet even just 25% is a considerable difference. If a plastic surgeon made your face 25% different, most of your family and friends would find you unrecognizable.
In Star Trek: Into Darkness there is a small model of the prime timelines original Connie.
I love the fact that in the Kelvinverse beta continuity, it is canon that there is a Green Lantern Corps
I always wanted an in universe explanation for the more “high tech” look to the Star Trek ships.
"We're gonna need a bigger boat" lol, nicely done
Awesome video! I love it when gaps fill in nicely like that.
a related question, did we see the begining of the borg race in "Star Trek - the motion picture"
when captain decker joined with the vulcan girl who was turned into a robotic probe by "veger" (voyager) and someone said to kirk - "did we just see the start of a new race?" kirk replied "yes I believe we did" (or something simular)surely that would be an advanced race of half human and half machine - just like the borg
The Shatner novels explored this, but V'ger was already Bought when it came back to Earth.
No, the Borg Origin is still unexplained, but the Borg origin dated back well before thr 14th Century.
So they are around a thousand years old in Voyager.
They cant be created by V'Ger unless V'Ger did some weird timy thingy.
@@Intrepid17011 the books explain the borg origin and how they end.
@@stevejohnnicholls But is it Canon ? As far as i know its not.
She was Deltan, not Vulcan.
Wow I had no idea that that the timeline was altered in such a way. And makes complete sense thank you for the Star Trek education.
Wow, thanks for making this video! this really helped clear things up when i originally first watched the movie, thanks!
I had a similar idea about the Narada causing Starfleet to rethink its design philosophy and organizational structure. But I didn’t think about adding borg tech into the mix. I like it. It explains a few more things.
As for the design of the Kelvin I think it’s really not too far off to suggest that it could have been a test ship. Starfleet may have already been considering bigger/ different ships. Considering the fact that they had duranium alloys, forcefields, hull polarization, and inertial dampers I don’t think there was really any technological reason they couldn’t have built bigger. In the Prime timeline they could have simply decided that bigger ships weren’t necessary.
Just about the whole narada having borg technology.
You dont really notice it when watching the film as your too busy enjoying it but if you pay close attention to the narada in the film those arms/tentacles/whatever those long pointy things are do actually look like they have had borg technology added to them.
An Iconic quote "Thats a big wall of fiery explode"
"That's a big wall of fiery explode!"
This is in fact the technical term. It's no laughing matter. Big walls of fiery explode are real threats to interstellar civilization.
Amazing stuff. As a person who doesn't know much about the universe, this gave me cartoon special episode vibe
🖖😎👍Very nicely well done and very informatively explained and executed in every way and every detail provided indeed👌...
Q: Why Does the Kelvin Timeline Look So Different?
A: Because it's a movie and they need to sell toys, ship models and other mechandise!
Nail on the head!!!! The only other thing I would add is that J.J. Abrams is a complete tool bag who has single handedly ruined the Star Wars and Star Trek universes with his opinion.
Except that there was almost zero merchandising of the Kelvin timeline. Link to some of that cool merch?
@@RogueLeader21m never really worried about look. The look was limited by our rendering technology so high res textures and fancy lighting seems just fine. Only thing is the technology should be the same but just re skinned.
Because its not the original copyright thats why...
ye because there is kelvin timeline toys all over the place right? ??
"When you break the sound barrier, you get a sonic boom. You broke the time barrier, Flash. Temporal Boom!" - Zoom, FP.
Hey, that's me! But really great video friend! Very informative! LLAP
@Certifiably Ingame I think you got a portion of the alteration a bit wrong. You forget that when in the prime time line the Enterprise E went back in time to save the birth of the Federation with the first contact. The main deflector dish was removed from the Enterprise to prevent Borgs to modify it, thus preventing them from sending a long rang subspace message to this early time Borgs in the Delta Quadrant. Now jumping to the Enterprise series with Capt. Archer, they encounter the Borg drones that came back to life after being discovered in the Artic circle with the saucer dish of Enterprise E. Before escaping the scientist had time to get a good picture of the Borg Technology from the drones, like the nanobots, etc. before their escape and attempt to go in the direction of the Delat Quadrant before they get destroyed during the pursuit with Enterprise & Capt. Archer. That alone can be one of the reasons why ship designs changed and why a ship like the USS Discovery and it's sister ship came to be. The event of First Contact may have already influenced and the comming of Nero ship pushed in overdrive before synching to the normal rythm but with bigger ships for the Kelvin timeline.
And if you look at the Picard series, it's clear we do see a portion of recuring events. When the synthetic went rogue like what happened with Lieutenant Commander Airiam went Section 31 "AI" made her go rogue to get the data from that ancient alien ship. And it's funny to see the Romulan trying to profit from the Borg tech and yes they are afraid anything "Ai" or synthetic.
My head cannon is that when the Romulan mining vessel changed the timeline, it not only changed the future of that universe, but the past. Because of the large amounts of time travel in Star Trek, with some of the most notable changes being Sisko and the Bell Riots and Janeway kickstarting the Silicon Age. When the timeline was changed, if/how these events occurred changes as well, and so the whole timeline going back to the 1900s was altered.
All the more puzzling why the Enterprise was dispatched so easily by every bad guy it encountered from there on out.
Damn good point!!! They should have been kicking ASS!
Everyone was taking pity on the TOS Enterprise and pulling their punches. :)
@@felixautomaton5314 Or Kelvin Kirk's build just sucked. He needed the Trellium-D console, maybe House Martok at epic mark XV for survivability. And to bring some friggin heals along. It wouldn't kill him to take hazard emitters II as well...(anyone who plays STO will get this)
@@Lukos0036 ROFL awesome just awesome
You ever watch this show called Star Trek? Interesting thing about it: the Enterprise gets its ass kicked much more often than it wins, and the reason why is because it's a TV show, which means it needs dramatic tension.
Fun fact: The Prime timeline actually isn't the continuity we'd followed up through 2009. Paramount and CBS are just allowing fans to believe that without correcting them.
See, the scenes that happened in the future had to follow the same "25% different" mandate that was set for the entire 2009 franchise; therefore making characters like Spock, Data, and Picard *already* be different characters to the ones we followed in TOS and TNG.
TOS/TAS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT: Unnamed timeline
DISC/Countdown/opening scene of ST09: Prime timeline
ST09/Into Darkness/Beyond: Kelvin timeline
There are actually no continuity errors in calling Discovery a part of the Prime timeline, because _the Prime timeline isn't anywhere near as established as you think it is._
Shut up furry
@@kiranavb9586 shut up dead man
Enterprise isn't part of the same timeline as TOS-VOY. It is already drastically altered by the events of First Contact, and it is part of the same timeline as Discovery.
I believe the Kelvin Timeline looks so different is not just from the destruction of the USS Kelvin but i believe that the Borg Incursion unto the past to prevent First Contact.
This created two parallel timelines.
1. The Borg never went back, the timeline known as Prime-A continues as it is supposed to, this is the 'original' timeline, but not the one the Ent-E returned to.
2. Prime-B The second timeline where the Borg did invade and were destroyed by Enterprise's. This is the timeline that the Kelvin timeline again branched ,which gave rise to much larger vessels because the Federation knew of the Borg earlier. And much of this is influenced even further with the Narada's appearance.
And Discovery comes from Prime-B where the Narada never appeared.
Prime-A = Enterprise (Minus the Borg episodes), TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY.
Prime-B = (a) Enterprise (with the Borg Episodes), Star Trek Discovery, potential future Star Trek series
(B) Enterprise (with Borg encounter), Narada appears and destroys the Kelvin, Kelvin Timeline established, alternate TOS storyline, differing main character origins and hardships
So there were 2 divergences, the Borg incursion and the Narada's Incursion.
So the Kelvin timeline is two steps removed from the 'original' timeline.
Does this make sense?
Q really set the ball in motion when he meddled that one time, didn't he?
@@felixautomaton5314 not really, Q introduced them early, not forced them to meet when they would never have interacted.
@@TorKelRa Actually there a flaw in that, Prime-A would be Q not interfering. Prime-B would be what we now of the ST:NG & ST:TOS, we won and it had no lasting effect on time. Prime-C would be the Enterprise failed in Generations and the Borg won. Prime-C would be we won and it advance the tech to what we saw in the beginning of the movie. Prime-D would be the changes again in the speed of advancements and size of ships because of Nero's ship scans.
It is established that the Borg time travel thing happened in the prime timeline because Seven refers to it in Voyager. She says that the Borg have known about humanity for hundreds of years despite her family being the first humans assimilated.
Thank you so much for explaining this! Makes so much sense.
You're forgetting the encounter between the Enterprise NX-01 and the Borgs from the future that were revived. The same Borg that were left behind after the Enterprise E discarded it's delfector dish when the Borg were modifiying it, this means the federation (Star Fleet) had knowledge of the Borg way before the event that gave the Kelvin Timeline and they had technology from the deflector dish of the Enterprise E from First Contact. I would argue that the Borgs discovered and the deflector dish gave that boost when the encounter with Nero ship showed links with the Borgs found in the frozen ground of the artic. So not only the even with the USS Kelvin changed the timeline, but the USS Enterprise E did also gave that push and probably why the NX-01 was so late to be commisionned on the serie Enterprise, the Vulcan tried to hold back the humans, knowing they are responsible fro some future unknown event that will happen at the moment of first contact.
Ok now explain why captain kirk could not use any of the lantern rings in the green lantern ST crossover comic...
😆 there just wasn't a ring for the powah of Space Cowboy...
...it's too powerful to be cast as a ring xD
well i can't really see him as any lantern
Because, on one hand, you’re talking about Kirk. A ring would be both unnecessary and potentially limiting.
On the other, you’re talking about fanfic crossover comic books. Comic book logic is problematic enough without having to deal with the man, the myth, the legend of one Captain James Tiberius Kirk.
He'd be part of the Indigo Tribe anyways.
Kirk couldn't use any type of lantern ring because the *CBS* executives wanted to use the 💰 for their bonuses. Sexy interns and cigars ain't cheap! 😒
The Kelvin Timeline started way before the events in the 2009 movie. Example: Kirk was born in Iowa in the prime timeline. He was born in space in the Kelvin Timeline. This means the timeline was different before the incursion.
In my opinion, the Star Trek Enterprise time war is what created this alternate timeline that Spock happened into. Also the Borg going back in time to stop first contact could have something to do with it.
Attack on ship = premature birth
The stress from the attack on the kelvin could’ve caused the water to break, causing a premature birth.
Visually the Narada did look more like a Borg vessel than a Romulan vessel. The Borg even came looking for the Narada in the comics.
Which comic ?
@@mnrvaprjct first story arc of the "Boldly Go" ongoing
👏👏👏 Bravo sir, that is *exactly* the explanation I came up with back in 2009 when this Kelvin Timeline started. Despite knowing that JJ just has a hard on for bigger ships unnecessarily, in universe, the inability to miniaturize the technology they were duplicating just made perfect sense. It seems clear to me by the travel time and the different visual that Kelvin Timeline Starfleet ships are using some kind of Transwarp or even Slipstream, so them needing to make larger ships to accommodate these new fangled engines is logical. I can only imagine that they needed to develop new technology to make the tools and parts to build the technology to put into these new upgrades.
And even without Countdown you can look at the Narada and say, "I wonder what that Romulan ship looked like before it got assimilated."
Thank you for this video. THIS really explains a lot!
To imagine that this would lead to further evolution and developement, I wonder how the later iterations of the Enterprise would not only look, but also fare against the Romulan Warbirds, or the actual Borg...
I would love to see the Kelvin versions of the Akira and the other ships similar to her.
This also explains how a Romulan ship so easily takes out most of a fleet of starships, just like the Borg did before it at the battle of Wolf 359
Prime (TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY)
Mirror Universe (8 year Earth/Romulan War instead of 4)
Enterprise (Post-First Contact)
ENT Mirror Universe (welcome Vulcans with a shotgun instead of a handshake)
Kelvin (Nerada alters ENT timeline)
Discovery (sure as hell ain't Prime, so stop telling us it is CBS)
You know, Discovery makes sense if they put it in the Kelvin Timeline, like giant 700+meters Connies and ships, Section 31 got their separate black ships, and both have same technology.
Discovery is set 10 years before TOS. In the Kelvin timeline they gave Kirk the Enterprise right out of the academy, therefore the movies are set 10 years before TOS too.
@@johnilarde8440 Did anybody notice that the Discovery Timeline had ELEMENT F--------ING ZERO in Season 2: Episode 2 (New Eden)?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
If you're a StarTrek Fan, or a decent gamer and have an OK PC, you should absolutely try to play STO, they're filling so many plotholes, and add so many Stories, on sometimes 1-Episede-Characters/Enemies, that it's quite interesting.
For example, if you remember those Parasites, that were in that Gory TNG Episode, when Riker and Picard shot someones head till it exploded, they id build on that episode's Story, adding quite a lot of content.
The Best thing is: You don't really need to pay money for the Game, and even tough, the Game got an ingame Cash-Shop, you may earn that by farming.
Great vid...it helps explain why ST today is different and worthy of appreciation....just wish we could have had more of that explained in the movies....
Right? I guess it doesn't make for dramatic viewing and requires to understand the links so I can see why things get omitted. But that's what Memory Beta is for, I guess.
Viacom split and it lead to license issues. That's why all new Trek looks so different.
Everyone can hate the Kelvin Timeline all they want but Star Trek 2009 introduced lots of people (including myself) to the wonderful world of Star Trek. It may not be the greatest but it would always be in my heart as the thing that showed me the beautiful universe that is Star Trek
it is now officially cannon that temporal agents were aware of Nero's incursion.
Thank you sir for clearing this up now I fully understand what had happened.. THANK YOU !
It's already been established that even in the prime timeline, future tech has arrived and polluted the timeline multiple times. Events from literally all the series further cause disruption to the point that (one) future Starfleet does it's best to minimize smaller incursions and merge timelines back together (somehow). Big incursions are likely too difficult to fully erase, meaning the timeline is a jumble of different futures. ENT looks diffierent because it has been influenced by ST:FC, DIS looks different because of the entire temporal cold war. We've sadly cease to be in a situation where any single time strand is prime, but more of the most closely related ones being a braided cable that we call the "prime timeline".
The only entities we've seen that are aware and actively try to sort things out are one version of far future Starfleet and the Q (and possibly the Borg sensing it).
Actually, the bending of the timeline makes more sense than just chalking it up to design difference.
See my post on time.
I think I have a good explanation for how a star going Nova light years away could affect the Romulans: ABRAMS DOES NOT UNDERSTAND HOW SPACE WORKS.
While that could be true 90% of the “science” in Star Trek is bullshit
I actually don't have a problem with the Hobus star threatening/destroying Romulus. It's whatever. What really irks me is when Spock says that it threatened to destroy the ENTIRE GALAXY. How anyone could think that one star going nova could potentially destroy a fucking galaxy is just so laughable.
He doesn't understand Trek.
Or how far away Delta Vega was when Vulcan went boom... let alone transporting between star systems. I gave up.
If the alternate Enterprise was launched 13 years later than in the normal timeline, how come Kirk and the others are still super-young?
Launched doesnt mean Kirk was its first captain does it ...
Kirk took command of Enterprise in the Kelvin verse around 7 years earlier than he did in the Prime universe. In the Prime verse, Kirk didn't take command until around 2265, while Star Trek '09 took place in 2258 (around when Pike prime started his second 5 year mission as Enterprise's Captain... assuming he went on another instead of sticking to missions around the interior of the Federation... not too long after the last season of Discovery).
Because as others said Kirk was younger when he became captain vs the Prime timeline.
I always assumed the characters different ages were a result of knock on events from the destruction of the Kelvin. Causing the parents of the characters to meet and have children at different times and in different places etc and in some cases which is why they’re appearances also differ.
Based on the shape of the ship, plus similar shapes seen in TOS era games like Starfleet Command, I'm going to guess that the U.S.S. Kelvin is a Destroyer (SFC in-game classification: DD).
In Starfleet Command destroyers are small ships that have at most, one nacelle on the bottom; just like the U.S.S. Kelvin does. Some have two, but in a vertical arrangement instead of a horizontal one like most Starfleet ships have.
In Trek, destroyers are well-known to be testbeds for experimental technology. The latest and greatest, as it were. This would explain why the Kelvin looks so big, because the warp plasma impellers (which you see as the glowy, spinny parts of the warp nacelles on the TOS Enterprise) are bigger - because a larger flow, needs a bigger impeller.
Maybe in the prime timeline the larger impellers caused some kind of issue, which led to them being phased out in favor of the smaller ones you see in the series. But with the addition of Borg tech from the future, the larger nacelles are now more efficient than the smaller ones and continue in service.
This is nice.
Thank you also for adequately explaining why Ensign Chekov isn't 13.
"It's the job of the beta content to clean up after the main event, and only an idiot doesn't give the cleaning staff its due"
amazingly well put.
I had no idea Star Trek Online still existed. Thought it had been a flop from the beginning and went the way of the Dodo.
It's a guilty pleasure. It's bad, but still, you get to fly a federation ship, send your crew on stupid missions to chart anomalies and perform hamlet, and then fight the Borg twice an hour. It scratches an itch... Even if the ground combat is just terrible.
Its decent now
It was never a flop, not even at the beginning. It has always had a very fiercely loyal following.
There ARE no in-universe reasons. It's like people trying to create an accurate Legend of Zelda timeline: it just isn't THERE! They don't care as much as you do and will never pay as close attention.
And if Memory Beta is being cited, then this was all retconning to force it all to fit.
@AlchemicEntropy Translation: they retconned one because fans kept screaming about it.
Very good explanation.
Hey Rick I’ve been watching your videos for the past week I’m loving the channel man
Thank you!
I have a theory in regards to the changes pre Kelvin incident. Remember time was altered when the Borg time traveled back in First Contact and reappeared in that one episode of Enterprise. Also remember that the Xindi altered the timeline also when they attacked Earth. They are briefly mentioned in Beyond .
The movies got me into star trek so I'll always love them for that even if they arent that good. I own all 3 on bluray and I watch them periodically. I do love tos and tng, even voy and ent are wonderful. Didnt like ds9 and cant stand std but damn do I love the movies
At last! I've finally found another fan who doesn't like DS9! 😊
@@StarWarriorCentral i haaaate ds9. Never really felt like star trek since exploration wasn't a thing. Plus babylon 5 did the whole space station thing waaay better
I also don't like DS9
@@asierra86 Not really...DS9 is more important than you ever know
Good: Kelvin timeline movies, Voyager, Enterprise, TOS, TOS movies, Lower Decks
Boring: TNG, Deep space 9
Garbage: discovery, picard
Because of the Viacom split. CBS and Paramount are separate companies. There is no one united Trek canon. There could be if a merger happens and we get Prime Timeline again. I won't accept STD as Prime Timeline.
I don't think anyone will.
Really enjoyed this! Loved the comment “we are going to need a bigger boat”.
Excellent video. I knew most of this stuff already from countdown but still learned a little bit new.
interesting but where is the federation time force should then not be trying to fix that?
Wait! The events until the Kelvin was destroyed were the same in both timelines. Then there had to be Borg on the earth? But how die they came there? That never happend in the Kelvin timeline?
That's what most people think but Kelvin actually has an altered history compare to prime. Think of the timeline as a pond and traveling through it or dropping a stone in it creates ripples and distortions in both directions, past and future.
It probably still happened somehow possibly earlier - in the Kelvin comics a Borg Sphere came calling in 2263 ('Boldly Go' comic) and it wrecked its way through Federation and Romulan space on a mission to head to Romulus and check the place out. Seems the Tech on the Nerada wasn't exactly quiet and the Borg got signals and information from the ship's Borgified tech which they classified as the "Outlier". Starfleet and the Romulans ships had to temporarily ally to fight the Borg (which was what the original storyline was going to be in TNG with what turned out to be the Borg tearing up the Neutral Zone). So the Borg are still going to come in force later (possibly sooner since the ran through the Neutral Zone in the TNG era and in the Kelvin timeline they did it in the TOS era thanks to the Borg tech on Nero's ship).
There was an Episode of Enterprise that had left over Borg from the First Contact movie awaken and try to contact/get back their forces in the Delta Quadrant. They managed to send a transmission, before being destroyed and they said that would take almost two centuries to get there. Enterprise was before the Kelvin "Trousers of time" incident so it's roughly still canon in both universes.
3 words
Better
Special
Effects
3 words
more
lense
flare
@@Zapnl Six words
You
both
said
the
same
thing
“That’s a big wall of fiery...explode!”
That is my new favourite explanation for it now!
I always wonder a few things about the Kelvin timeline. (1) Hopefully by the time the Borg arrive for the Kelvin timeline, they will be more significantly prepared. (2) Does Q know about the differences between this timeline and the other?
I was under the impression that the Akira class was a warship specifically designed to help with interactions with the borg.
Doesn’t explain the “lens flair” !!!
(Was that caused by “nano-partials” too?)
No, it's JJ Particles, similar to the Q Particles that allow Q to manipulate reality at will.
Simple - licensing! CBS and Paramount hold different Star Trek Licenses and new films cannot resemble the other media so you get this.
I actually like the Kelvin Timeline unlike many other fans as it seems. Yes it alters a lot and yes I do agree with you that things will likely switch in that direction. So yes it is actually very possible that a single incident can cause so much change that everything has become rather different from what you knew before it. A Narada with borgified tech all over it would very much be a huge influence for major changes. This would include all known ships, space stations and even a home fleet that would stay around Earth for obvious reasons. It would also make full carriers a possibility much earlier instead of converted ships that were never up to the task.
The future of a Kelvin Timeline would there for likely set the Borg and Starfleet at a more equal footing, the Klingons are more likely to join Starfleet instead of wanting to go to war and even the Romulans are more likely to cool down rather quickly. Also a encounter with the Jem'hadar and the Hur'q would be a lot less one sided and give Starfleet a much bigger footing if not overpowering them. the Cardassians would be in real trouble for sure and trouble started by for example Kai Winn wouldn't be taken so lightly, even acted up on. Yes it would make a Kelvin Timeline DS9 variant a lot less lengthy and it would severely change the station as well, but the Federation would take no bullshit or take a waiting stance because of being the under dogs.
Also for Voyager this would hold a huge impact, not for the species they encounter but the hero ship and the crew. You will most likely not have a terrorist crew in the first place, the ship would be a lot larger with a lot more impressive tech on it and it would be seriously overpowering anything that the Delta Quadrant throws at them. Although fair to be said that species 8472 may still pose a problem if not the Borg once they reach to that part in the end. Yet the ship will be so advanced and so much bigger that they can handle a lot more situations on their own and not having to stop so often either.
The Kelvin Timeline would eventually get so strong that if you would place them against other franchises, like Star Wars for example, that the Kelvin Timeline will win in every case. Even with the design flaws many people claim on the Vengeance for example. If a Galaxy is about 300m smaller then a Victory class ship, then realize the sizes on the end of a Kelvin Timeline reaching the end of DS9/Voyager era. Those ships must be insanely huge and incredibly powerful indeed. Add the cloak system to all the ships which is a most likely outcome and it will be a hell for the Star Wars universe.
And for crybabies: I love both Star Trek as Star Wars, let's not go crying about that. I'm talking about realistic views, not feelings
Spock, Nero and his crew were in the wrong universe like they didn’t know it.