Actually, the trade embargo with Romulus was due to a cold war. The thing with Cuba only happened after Fidel Castro used the US to take control of Cuba, then turned to Communism and invited the Soviet Union to set up shop 90 miles away from US boarders. But the US and Cuba were never at war.
Jame M I think that the actual Cold War with the USSR and its puppet states like Cuba has something more to do with it. Read up on the Cuban Missile Crisis for some context.
Don't get assigned to a Miranda-class ship, they're guaranteed to get blown up whenever there's a space battle! Especially if flying nearby ships with main characters on them.
A Miranda class starship was, in it's day, well equipped and quite powerful. Reliant, for example. The problem is, Starfleet sunk so much resource into the mass production of them, it can't afford to produce newer, better ships in the same quantities. If there were half as many Galaxy, Defiant, or even Ambassador class ships around, the fleet would be much more up to date, not to mention stronger compared to the more militaristic cultures out there.
Why not join the borg, you'll get connected, meet new races, share ideas, travel to far places using the transwarp conduits, face exiting challenges (caution, there challanges are potentially dangerous, such as the assimilation of Spaces 8472) and your voice will always be heard.
You are never alone, you - at least your memory will be immortal, they always have a place for you, they don't care how you look. You are a part of a big happy family who work together towards one goal :)
*your - the " ' " symbol stands for a vowel. There is no vowel in "your", only in "you Are" (you're). Don't worry, your grammar errors will be autocorrected once you join the Collective.
IKR? It's like "We don't use money!" but every other power does. So guess what, the federation has to use some currency to trade with them. "We promote peace!" but you are surrounded by aggressive expansionary powers, so you gotta learn how to fight. They are a big target. Imagine being the power that toppled the Federation, how much respect that would get you from like-minded powers.
No. You're looking at it the wrong way. All the other major powers are at war with the Federation, because they want to dominate all the other intelligent life forms in the galaxy. Just like the U.S. has been at war with countries like Germany because they wanted to rule Europe. And now they do, thanks to the EU.
When you're the only positive-sum game in town, the others peddling their brand of winner-take-all don't like you. Also, it takes a specific brand of arrogance to hate diversity (cough* me and mine are better than you and yours *cough).
"I know you. I was like you once, but then I opened my eyes. Open your eyes, captain. Why is the Federation so obsessed with the Maquis? We've never harmed you. And yet we're constantly arrested and charged with terrorism. Starships chase us through the Badlands and our supporters are harassed and ridiculed. Why? Because we've left the Federation, and that's the one thing you can't accept. Nobody leaves paradise. Everyone should want to be in the Federation. Hell, you even want the Cardassians to join. You're only sending them replicators because one day they can take their 'rightful place' on the Federation Council. You know, in some ways you're even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. You're more insidious. You assimilate people and they don't even know it."
Except these were former Federation citizens committing acts of war against Cardassia. The Federation -had- to deal with those criminals or it would be forced into a war it didn’t want.
I would say that that also applies to the US - Union of Sovereign States which kept their Sovereignty, it is a good idea when it started but Lincoln said or implied that once joined you are in it for life and can never leave - Like 'Hotel California' by the Eagles.
I want you to try something for me. Take a sip of this. What is it? A human drink; it's called root beer. I dunno... Come on. Aren't you just a little bit curious? What do you think? It's vile! I know. It's so bubbly, cloying...and happy. Just like the Federation. And you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it. It's insidious. Just like the Federation.
@@johnwclick well eventually the Ferengi sign an association treaty with the Federation, they didn't want to join the Federation because that would have severely limited their options but with negotiation they signed a kind of association agreement that allowed them to send people that wanted to, to Starfleet Academy and set up formal trade routes
You will like the UFP. It is the greatest power in the quadrant and is the center of all love peace and prosperity. It takes care of you, and looks after you, it is your religion and your ruler. UFP is life, UFP is love. *please don't kill me section 31, I did what you asked for...
I don't want to join the Federation for my reasons, 1. The prime directive. 2. The lack of earth culture. 3. No cloaking device for Federation ships. 4. Romulan and cardassian treaties are terrible And 5. Starfleet is too weak and the 24th century ships are like luxury Cruisers and they're really easy targets to be destroyed.
@@springtrapstarwar5557 Well, the 'no cloaking device' was reasonable because it was a compromise to keep the 'cold war' between the Klingons, Romulans, and UFP from going 'hot war'. That said when it became clear that the Romulans would look for any reason to break the agreement, the UFP should have said "Quit this crap or we start cloaking device research!" The UFP ships were known to be superior to Romulan craft at that time and the mere threat of doing that would have made the Romulans come back in line.
@Kick gum, and chew ass. i rather declare indepance from the federation and form a galactic government for the sucessor to the usa. it will be called the united states of galatic america.
Oh, Hal, Hal, Hal..... you just had to mention us by name... Would you like us to send your personal effects to your parents on Earth, or your sister on Nova Pittsburgh?
@@Sorestlor In the end the Dominion was forced to surrender to Star Fleet due to an engineered virus created by Division 6. Cardassians and Klingons were forced to make peace in order to rebuild their cripple civilizations. Finally the Romulans lost their home world due to a singularity and are no longer much of a threat.
Yes but to this date it seems most of the enemies aren't a thread any more, Dominion is not it the alpha quadrant any more . Romulan lost their homeworld , Cardassians lost the Dominion war wouldn't surprised if they join the federation. Which leaves only Klingon, Borg and some inner enemies and maybe a returning Iconian civilization + unknown. Orion Syndicate their way seems out of place their is a chance they will change their way of life and later join the federation maybe...
I hope you don't mind, I chose it because of its appearance in STO, but now I know who drew it I was able to find your DA account and link it. So thanks for creating a nicer image!
Not a problem at all, that's what I made them for! I hated the old versions of the Orion insignia and the official ones from STO were way too small. Feel free to use any of the other insignias for any future Cultural Indexes. Been watching lots of your videos the last few days and you have gained a subscriber!
its in canon that the majority is human - simply because most other member are either industrial less strong, less populous or they maintain their own fleet and only commit a small or no percentage at all to star fleet
I kind of like the Romulan "BIG ASS SHIP" doctrine, but they're a little too paranoid for my tastes. Being Vulcan would be awesome. The ability to live for centuries is a huge bonus.
To be fair, we only get hints and glimpses into how the United Federation of Planets works - most of our focus is on Starfleet, who carry out all the leg work...
Honestly, I think I wouldn't want my race joining for two reasons. 1. The ban on cloaking research. 2. The ban on genetic research. Both have proven to be tremendously powerful shown many times as the Romulans use their cloak 100% of the time and the fact that a single genetically modified human has easily taken over thousand person ships (Klingon and Human) multiple times.
L4Z3RF4C3 the ban on cloaking tech is only due to a treaty with Romulans and since its canon that Romulus blew up (thanks JJ) the Star Empire is in better place for renegotiation And there isn’t a ban on genetic research but a ban on modification because the side effects are too severe , bashir being an exception not the rule
In the first Titan book Riker is told in no uncertain terms that after the disaster that was Shinzon Starfleet Command considered the Treaty of Algeron null and void. As to genetic engineering it is not banned genetic augmentation is. True the "super soldier" project that created Ensign Jannos overcame the flaws of the Khan pattern augments by combining species and only including a rudimentary intelligence so there was no chance of "super Hitlers" but even that backfired spectacularly causing a secession and a war with the Tholians shortly after the Dominion armistice.
@@DarthAzabrush You say that, but it comes down to semantics when the Federation was willing to more or less let Andoria die, as the only real way to save the Andorian species was cutting down on their mating to only need two sexes, instead of four, and they'd temporarily left the Federation. This is a founder species of the UFP and they were willing to just let them go extinct over this. It's not just augmentation, it's any modification on a genetic level that is not directly lifesaving for the individual. Furthermore, it is outright moronic that so many species are bound by the misfortune of one or two, and the Federation itself had not fully outlawed it until long after foundation -- it was originally JUST a human ban on it, if memory serves.
@@Recoil1808 Denobula, Ilyria and a fair few other member worlds would never have joined if the ban was all species. The Andorian issue in the books was entirely the fault of whoever classified the meta genome research with such a high clearance that the President didn't even know about it. The Andorians refused a lot of the regular gene treatments offered because they would have lost their 4 sexes.
Many of the flaws in the Federation can be traced back to a failure in writing during the TNG era's later years. Many times some writers directly contradict what had come before just to tell their story. Some of them didn't want to see the Federation as an idealistic society, so they purposefully wrote in ways to make it seem distasteful, and everything thereafter was forced to maintain these precedents because "canon". The whole purpose of the Federation in Star Trek was to be a brighter future we would hope to one day achieve, as if as a platform for saying "the world seems like a horrible place today, but a brighter future can come if we all work toward it". Yet, down the road, writers wanted things to be "more realistic" to today's problems, which completely invalidates the whole reason for the Federation and Star Trek's existence. Rick Berman may be the principal culprit to blame for that
while you are right that later writers broke canon in order to tell their stories, Gene Roddenberry also did this with the whole not a military but it is a military thing, or the no money but with money thing. same thing happens with elves in fantasy. they are idealistically Utopian, and so everyone wants their version to be the thrown into the mix. it can't maintain internal consistency, but because it was made to be Utopian it was made unable to maintain internal consistency.
And thank gd for those writers. The federation due to simple logic cannot be a utopistic society, and writing it as such would be an insult to the intelligence of the viewer.
Its a bigger insult to ones intelligence that we are so mired in our current ways of thinking about things that we feel it is impossible things can ever change, even though they change with every passing century. It is pure unabashed arrogance to feel you are currently at the heights Humanity will ever reach.
Sure. Becuse Humans will stop striving for self betterment, caring about those close to them, and abandon independent thought on the altar of the promise of a Utopia. Because what the society you suggest would take.
I just rewatched the TNG episode "legacy" and the fact Turkana IV even exist is a blemish on the Federation. It is a huge humanitarian crisis the Federation willingly allowed to happen. Even though Turkana IV was unaffiliated, the Federation still would have been obligated to resecure the settlement in order to safeguard citizens that were likely trapped in the chaos at no fault of their own. The Federation had the "military" means to do so, and refusing to is one of the Feds most cold-hearted and cruel actions of all Trek.
Turkana renounced the federation and the federation stuck to general order 1 and the prime directive to not interfere except for when they did, but here's a question the border colonies with Kardashian didn't renounce the federation the federation gave them away but still trying to keep authority over the people why?
I always wonder what would happen to an emergent species that popped up on the Federations doorstep there must be a whole bunch of them - who are not happy about being territoriality surrounded and having their ships searched all the time. I guess he Cardassians were close to being that. But what if in the space of a century some planet decided it wanted to be a big cheese and it's territory was inside the federations sphere of influence. Could get awkward - the Federation would either have to oppress them harass them or even exterminate their ability to travel in space and quarantine them. It's possible they could even set off a subspace sink hole device and leave them stranded with no way out short of sleeper ships.
Something that was pointed out to me about the Romulans, Cardassians, to a lesser degree Klingons, and maybe the Breen, is that they're fucking terrified of the Federation. They're geographically hemmed in, and maintaining sovereignty over their borders is extremely difficult with a neighbour like the Federation. UFP has fantastic defence. Whenever anyone attacks them, they just lock down their borders and funnel overwhelming manpower to the area of the problem, not to invade and take over territory, but to simply destroy the will for military solutions of their neighbour. They don't invade, not because it's too costly, or against their morals, but because their diplomatic way just works better. A real life precursor to this may be the Norwegian solution for global security. Instead of having a standing military army to physically take strategic areas, Norway used their oil boom money to invest in a global foreign securities fund, wherein they used all that oil money SOLELY for investments into politically potentially dangerous nations, and developing hotbeds. The reason for this is that, sooner or later, these nations are going to be incentivized to use brute force to expand their hegemony, so Norway slides into their DMs, like "Hey, we'll invest in your country. No strings attached." but then when that country invades their neighbours, Norway calls them up, like "Yo, stop invading your neighbours, or we'll pull out our investments." and the invading nation has the choice of continuing to invade, but gain virtually no profits, because their home economy has just tanked, or to give up on the invasion and go home, because otherwise, their economy will tank. The UFP doesn't want to oppress you. It wants to exploit you. It doesn't want to take away your personal freedoms or happiness, just your ability and desire to manufacture your own destiny. It doesn't want you to be unhappy, because unhappy nations seek to challenge the status quo. A slave who is happy will never relinquish his chains. The Rick and Morty Unity episode has a great line about this. "Unity, I don't think Summer is saying life without you would be great. Just that it would be... Life."
@@BenjiQ575 to make matters worse this is all talking about Prime Timeline UFP, considering that Kelvin Timeline UFP is more militerist to START thanks to Nero
There are many such examples of this. And the UFP simply leaves them alone if they decide not to join or are unaware of the UFP if they don't have warp drive yet (the prime directive.) But there is also Empires like the Satarran Empire and the Lysian Alliance both completely surrounded by Federation Space. Those two are at war with eachother and technologically inferior to StarFleet however the UFD leaves them be.
@@BenjiQ575 Well the alternative is General Order 24. I honestly don't get it. People say the Federation is pacifist when its ships are armed, they say they're weak when they regularly go head on with the great military powers of their region and others, and say they're oppressive if they try to maintain peace within their territory and keep other powers from unleashing chaos and death in their sphere of influence.
@Mighty Fist Of Zeon! -- The Federation only continues to exist BECAUSE it's a buffer state between five different highly militant expansionist powers. Their continued existence is strategically ESSENTIAL to both the Romulans and the Klingons. Militant pacifism and obsessive bureaucracy and a facade of moral integrity are ideal traits in someone seeking to maintain a stalemate. The Federation doesn't seek to defeat anyone BECAUSE it can play its enemies off against each other and always present itself as the least worst option. Thus fostering alliances of convenience. The primary strategy during the Cardassian Border Wars was to destroy enemy fleets in detail but avoid ground combat as much as possible FOR SIXTY YEARS. This encouraged the Cardassians to become even more militant and expend enormous resources on building ships and a large standing army rather than economic or technological development. By the end of DS9 their entire government, economy, infrastructure, legal system and moral codes are all essentially destroyed and over half their population are dead and the Federation has barely built its first purpose warships in over a century. They could have ended the whole thing in 20 minutes with a couple Genesis Devices. But instead, they played a longer game and preserved the balance of power in the quadrant.
@@brodriguez11000-- ending the cold war (to my knowledge) relied heavily on Mutually Assured Destruction to prevent general war and proxy wars and arms races to drain the Soviet economy. Sounds pretty Federation.
1. Didn't the Klingons nearly drive themselves to extinction with the destruction of Praxis because they lacked resources, and ran to the Federation for help? 2. Weren't the Maquis completely wiped out?
1. Yes and no. Praxis was one of their major energy suppliers but losing it wasn't the problem. The waste killing the homeworld and the massive cost of their military forces them to make peace with the Federation. 2. Only after Cardassia joined the Dominion and zerk rushed them with jemhadar.
The Klingons did not run to the Federation for help, they ran to the Federation to sign a peace treaty that would allow them to downsize their massive, expensive military. They were very much capable of taking care of themselves despite the Praxis incident if they existed in a vacuum, but they did not. They were surrounded by hostile powers (Granted, most of those were hostile because of their own actions.) that needed to be pacified one way, or another, to allow them the shift in focus to fix their issues. There were certainly elements in the Klingon government who were convinced that they could do that pacification by a quick war, so its not like the Klingons were helpless or in need of foreign aid besides a guarantee that they would not be attacked.
You struggled... because you see the reality of each species independently, and are not distracted by the forced perspective of each of the alternate species, through Federation eyes. No nation, real or in ST lore, is as noble as it thinks it is. I'm a huge Star Trek fan and you did an awesome and commendable job on this project.
"If you seek peace, plan for war" Roman phrase, this also applied to the Federation, and is the reason for the many wars., the others (great Powers) have the same Idea as well ;)
Aside from a clear disdain towards humans in TOS, I've never really seen the Klingons be racist. It is my impression that they respect strength and honour alone. If you are strong and honourable, I think you can make it within the Empire, regardless of your race...
@Mighty Fist Of Zeon! But wasn't there an episode where Martok says his application to the Klingon military academy was rejected because Kor found him to not have any noble blood ties, and so was unfit on that ground alone. And then Martok said he would have a difficult time being Chancellor since he was from an impoverished area of the homeworld. Seems like a lot of bigotry to me.
The Klingons are just chauvinistic. Their most common insult is to put another Klingon's "blood" into question, as though mixing with other cultures makes you less Klingon and therefore less of a warrior.
We see Curzon Dax as being highly respected among Klingons, to the point that Jadzia Dax was also automatically honored simply for having a "blood tie" to Curzon. So, yes and no. You could as an ambassador or other diplomat make friends with High Houses, but you as a Hur'q would not gain any personal standing outside of joining one of the houses. You would not gain any commands, you would not find a seat on the council. Respected by klingons in general, sure... but you would not have power in the government or military.
This is why the Ferasans (basically Caitan Augments, like Khan) were conquered by the KDF, but serve in the KDF and are valuable members of their society. They are physically strong, fierce, and dangerous to fight. Which Klingons appreciate and value.
I remember one episode where a Federation Explorer found a primitive alien planet with two species, one of which was dying out because of a disease. Despite being able to cure it easily, the explorer refused to on the basis that the dying species was "a genetic dead end". In other words he consigned all those aliens to die painfully, and to watch their children die. The Federation liked this decision so much they declared it the basis of the Prime Directive. Isaac Arthur makes a good point on why the Prime Directive is both cruel (allowing suffering you could easily fix) and impractical (all it takes is one person who disagrees with it and owns a ship to break it).
The unaffected race (the Menk) was treated as lesser individuals by the dying race who were more evolved (the Valakians) and Phlox discovered the disease was genetic and that the Valakians reached their "evolutionary dead end." He also predicted that they would be extinct in like 200 years while the Menk seemed to be on an evolutionary breakthrough that might lead them to become the dominant species on the planet. So, by curing the Valakians they would be consigning the Menk to stay subservient to the Valakians. Plus they gave them a treatment for the symptoms so they wouldn't all be dying painfully as you say.
@@zax2004 That episode was written by an idiot who has no understanding of how evolution actually works and if you think large swathes of people dying all at once leaving behind more corpses than there are people to bury them isn't going to cause some kind of epidemic that might affect the Menk you aren't very bright either. If the Menk ARE developing they would eventually figure out how they were being treated was wrong and start demanding equal rights. In time they would probably have gained them as well considering that is pretty much how societies change and develop over time amyway.
@@moralityisnotsubjective5 If you couldn't tell that i was describing the episode and the conclusions they came to in the show, then you aren't that bright yourself. However, since you want to create an argument... You don't seem to understand how evolution works either because when a more dominant species is present it tends to stifle less dominant ones. Look at the way things are now in the US even though we are talking within the same species. The ones with power hoard resources and keep the rest in competition for what little is left over which keeps them busy enough trying to survive that most don't realize they are being mistreated and those who do rarely have time to fight for equal rights. You can see how well the fight for equal rights is going. Everyone is equal right? Native Americans eventually gained equal rights... LGBT eventually gained... Oh. Also, I can't remember there being any reason to assume there would be a series of sudden mass extinction events where the Valakians all die suddenly in large groups like you are suggesting that would "[leave] behind more corpses than there are people to bury them."
@@zax2004 That's not evolution. That's social dynamics Evolution is about genetics and passing on your DNA. As tvtropes puts it: Evolution leads species to inadvertent extinction all the time, usually from something like overspecialization, such as a single species parasite being out of luck if that species itself goes extinct. But the idea of a straight up genetic disease, somehow treatable with antibodies yet interfering with protein production to the point of death, spreading enough to doom an entire species, is simply nonsense. Phlox believes, based on scant and untested evidence from less than 2 days of information gathering and genetic profiling, that the Menk will someday be the dominant sentient species on the planet if the Valakians go extinct. But assuming future evolution from current trends, and making a medical conclusion based on that, is extremely arrogant and shortsighted. In addition, evolution has competition as a large component; far from 'holding them back', their relationship with the Valakians could in fact be what is driving the Menk to become more intellectually sophisticated, and Phlox is in fact dooming both species Conflation of theory and Scientific Theory on the topic of evolution, but reversed from the usual misconception that evolution is 'only' a theory; Archer (accurately) says that the conclusions of Phlox concerning the relationship of the Valakians and Menk are only a theory, which Phlox in his response dismisses by deferring to the Theory of Evolution. This is a non sequitur, since Archer was clearly using the term generically to refer to what in scientific parlance would be a hypothesis, something which needs testing and is certainly not a final conclusion. Whether or not the Valakians die in large numbers or gradually WOULD depend on the nature of the disease they are suffering. If it's anything like the Black Death though it would be quite nasty as that killed one third of the population of Europe. World wide it has been estimated to have killed 75 million people. Hopefully it wouldn't be THAT bad, but the show didn't really give enough information to make that determination if memory serves.
I wrote this on the other video before I saw this one, so why not repeat myself! The Federation is quite incompetent. -The Galaxy Class Starships are prone to viruses that can even destroy the entire ship (USS Yamato) Apparently there isn't a honeypot protocol to insulate the ship's core systems, and they are supposed to be the best ships ever built. -The Fire Suppression System almost never works -No one knows how the holodeck works, it doesn't have an easily accessed off switch and artificial hologram people are actually capable of controlling or damaging the ship and the "outside" world. -The Ships are so poorly designed that they can be hijacked or crippled with a very small crew, (the Binars) or even one (Rogue Data) -Medical Technology does not seem to be very good as diseases seemingly easily spread (the Naked Now), and some medical personnel seem confounded by simple emergency procedures like using a splint to set a limb. Even one of the top surgeons was clueless as to how to fix Picard's heart...something that could be replaced in the 20th century. -Star Fleet Command was easily infiltrated by visually detectable brain bugs, almost bringing the Command to collapse -The Federation restricts trade, such as Romulan Ale -Simple animals such as Tribbles can endanger an entire ship -The Federation keeps children and non-Federation personnel on board their "science" vessels when those same vessels are frequently deployed to battle. -Communications are, apparently, a Federation monopoly -Earth doesn't seem to have advanced much as all, as homes can still catch fire and kill people -Replicator technology produces inferior foodstuffs, according to O'Brien who misses "real" food, Scotty, who laments the weakness of "Synthahol" and Troi being annoyed and bored at the "healthy" chocolate the replicator makes. -The Federation makes bad treaties, such as with the Cardassian, displacing the residents of several planets. Especially given that the Cardassians had repeatedly demonstrated they had no interest in peace. -They have no problem displacing many inhabitants of several worlds to satisfy a treaty with a hostile power, but can't properly negotiate a way to work with the few dozen Bakku in order to cultivate the life-preserving radiation that surrounds their planet. -Sponsored Scientists face little oversight and dangerous materials such as Proto-matter can be used without Starfleet supervision -"Mars Defense" is a pathetic joke. -The Federation has very little contact with the outside Galaxy as the Borg were a surprise when first encountered, despite Guinan and other refugees having known about them decades earlier. The Federation had little clue about the Ferengi until they bumped into each other. -Starfleet seems to gobble up resources as private vessels are rare, and almost always small, clunky, dirty and unreliable. -They can't decide on whether or not they actually use money -The prime directive is often abused, used inconsistently, and most worryingly, used as an excuse to allow entire civilizations to die. The excuse being that a non-aligned culture has the "right" to evolve on it's own, and yet if a civilization is facing impending doom, by definition it can't evolve any longer. Saving people who would be the only way to allow any further evolution, natural or not. I could go on and on.
I don't know what Stardestroyer.net is, but it wouldn't surprise me if other people found the same flaws over the years, since they are pretty glaring. I could also go over how Starfleet saw fit to promote Janeway to Admiral when she knowingly, and willingly murdered Tuvix, an independent, sentient being who protested his own sacrifice.
There were sacrifices made along the way, but she managed to keep most of her people alive in hostile territory without any support or backup. Keeping Tuvix would have meant sacrificing Tuvok and Nelix, so it was a classic no win scenario all around, you could tell at the end Janeway was still bothered by her choice.
Which other organization would I want to be a part of, if the Federation does not exist or is not an option? Why, the Citadel Council/Alliance, of course! ;P Seriously though, The Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and Bajorans are, for all intents and purposes, non-options unless you are already at least as powerful as they are, or more so; if you're not, well... The Bajorans are usually seen as targets by other species, so if you are not a strong power already, allying with Bajor unfortunately just makes you both bigger targets. The Cardassians or Romulans will "ally" with you, but unless you're at least as strong as they are, their arrogance and superiority complex will compel them to always view you as a subservient race, never as equals (and "subservient" might be too mild a term, they would most likely think of you as slaves or pets). And the Klingons would scornfully view you as either prey or just not worthy of allying with, since their great pride is in self sufficiency and domineering strength, the ultimate examples of "Might Makes Right". Honestly, your best bet in the non-Federation universe would probably be The Dominion; from what has been said, as long as you pledge your allegiance to the Founders and "pay your dues" they are fairly "hands-off" and "do-as-you-please" when it comes to the races under them.
QUWYKXZ People forget the Ferengi Alliance, which I actually think is a second-best option. I don’t like all that they do but they tend to keep out of war and they don’t hold back their tech as long as you can pay. IF you have enough savvy to hold your own ground in their markets, they don’t give a damn what you do as long as you keep your contracts.
The Dominion is technically a federation as well. Its members are autonomous states and nobody cares what they're doing as long as they keep their loyalty to the Founders. This maybe even a better option than joining the UFP, because Jem'Hadar will protect you from evil neighbors far better than childish Starfleet.
@@Cyborous Just like the modern UN, EU and NATO forces of Earth. Sometime they get along but there is a lot of red tape to cut through in order to make any real progress.
@5:00 Your arguments on Bajor were covered in the first episode of DS9. Bajor had no treaty with the Federation, So the Feds did not help when the Cardasians invaded. After driving them out, then they signed a defense treaty with the Federation.
sure, thats why they stopped existing for a while, then when they tried to re-form they STILL ceased to exist again... meanwhile the federation has been around for the whole time lol the terrans are efficient and ruthless, the federation is competent and stable
@@xGoodOldSmurfehx Empire ceased existing as a result of transformation into UFP-like federal republic with a subsequent disarming of the starfleet, which was done by Spock. After that it was quickly conquered by the klingons and cardassians. But the occupation didn't last for long. After the Terran rebellion succeeded, it formed the Galactic Commonwealth, which is more powerful than UFP. I'd even tell that it's a velvet reincarnation of the Empire.
I want to see a series that deals with a movement in the federation that would rebel against the prime directive which would lead to a civil war probably after a data dump about section 13.
Captain America 1776 I'm a hobby writer and I've been working on a Star Trek story for years it keeps getting destroyed and I have to start again from scratch most recently in a massive house fire, tired of losing it by computer storage I used a typewriter that's what I ended up having, I have a slightly different view as an element of the story I've been writing a group of people resisting against the federation, for it's not genuinely complying with the prime directive.
Well, pretty much all we see of the Federation is from the perspective of Starfleet, which is a quite regimented organization. It's obvious that most people in the Federation are not affiliated with Starfleet, and each individual planet has a great deal of sovereignty when deciding how to govern itself - so depending on which Federation world you live on, you might live under a democracy, a monarchy, or an authoritarian regime that does the bare minimum to abide by the Federation charter but is still pretty repressive. And if you live on a research station out in the galactic void, it's probably like living on the frontier where there is barely any law at all. One of the things I like about the Terran Federation in Heinlein's sci-fi novels is that you get a really good idea of how the society is structured, and he goes out of his way to show you that the military is only a tiny, insignificant sliver of the Federation itself.
And in pretty much every case, they impose their own cultural morality on independent groups., never thinking about the integrity of the other alien culture.
All of the other empires would have to have other species not only in their empire but integrated into it in order to maintain such an empire. Yet we never see any.
Well... we do see examples of integration into ONE of them... THE BORG! ; ) Make of that what you will. (I always assumed everybody else just killed every other species, or banished them, and then strip-mined their planets.)
Mostly we only see their military and political elite. Not really surprising that those are almost exclusively of the dominant species. It's one of the reasons many see the UFP as a human empire.
I never really understood why star fleet only has the one academy I mean yes as SF forcers military or otherwise goes it's tiny as is the federation . Which last time I checked was less than 200 planets and member races large. But surely it would make since to have at least a small recruiting/training centres on worlds other than earth. What happens if say the federation sets up a permanent out posts in the delta or gamma quordaents the poor souls there have to go all the way to earth to get a bage and uniform. Even the imperium of man isn't that ineffective and it's the fucking imperium
183 members, over 150 homeworlds, but those don't include the colonies of the member races (remember, for membership, the member needs a planetary unified government.) As for the training centers, Starfleet academy is for the officer corps, and before the Dominion war and Borg, there simply wasn't that big of a fleet to patrol. They used local indigeonous fleets for immediate response, and Starfleet would be brought in later if that failed. Remember, there were 42 Starfleet starships at Wolfe 359, but during the buildup against the Dominion, it expanded to way more than that (thousands of ships) where a single fleet would have about 1200 ships. They never state how manning was achieved (deputization of planetary militias and field commissions, most likely) but they put in the full resources of the Federation for it.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if "Starfleet Academy" was both the name of the complex in San Francisco and an organization with more than one just one campus. Going to Starfleet Academy might not mean going to that specific place, especially not for all semesters.
I forgot to mention this, but in the kevil time line of trek (the movies and universe spawned by the 2009 film) or rather in one of its comic tie in the mini series star fleet academy (which I highly recommend) it indicated that yes nearly every specie capable of maintaining a training centre dose so. for example the Vulcans and the andorions (among others) have a academy that trains the crews and staff needed for their ships, fleets and other installations. however it was more or less stated that these are originations are not affiliated with Star fleet our its proxys. and will peruse their own wants/need and desires so long as the fall with in Fedration law.but I think what I was trying to get at was.the system is deeply flawed as its started motoable times with both cannon and bata sources that star fleet only has the one academy on earth. with maybe recruitment officers placed else were with the Federation but these just recruit they don't train thou the existence of these are uncertain.let me try and explain my issue for you as simplely as I can, say you wish to be a cop of fire man but you were told the only place on earth you could be trained to fulfil this ambition is new Zealand. and you live in Cannda. yes while its not impossible to make the trip it's dame inconvenient. then imagine if you will translate that to the whole population of the earth that wishs to become a cop or fire man. they all have to spend X mouths or even years of their life training in a foreign country just so they can put out a fire down the street from were they lived before they did the above.
@@edsr164 humans are the ones who control the federation, what are you talking about? unless you're mocking the brexiteers....in which case, kudos, you had me fooled for a moment.
@@hackman669 More like mixing up the Pentagon/NASA for the entire United States. Though he did highlight how most people's first contact with the Federation will inevitably be through Starfleet.
Gee wonder where they got that from? Still the Gorn are interested in actually going back to being independent, and the Orion Syndicate has seen their criminal empire booming under Klingon protection. The Ferasan are at least like minded.
This series is great! It’s so rare to find someone that posts analytical videos on Star Trek without descending into completely insane theories that aren’t supported by canon, twisting information, and outright lying in order to get edgy clickbait-y videos claiming that the Federation is actually an evil, fascist organization instead of a peaceful, post-scarcity federal republic. Although I do have issues with the map. I’ve seen it floating around online, but I’ve never seen it in any canon source. The production team seems to avoid making maps to make writing easier. Plus, any map of the space would have to be 3D and not 2D. Since you could have a border that stretches along any plane. Also, the other races may have more than one species inside their borders but they may not be considered citizens given the nature of their societies… if they’re still alive that is. Wouldn’t put it past the Romulan, Klingon, or Cardassian governments to wipe out entire species. And the extinction thing is a bit more… grey. The most famous instance, TNG’s Homeward, was only an issue because a) the disaster that destroyed the planet’s atmosphere progressed too fast for the _Enterprise_ to arrive in time to reverse it and b) there were only a handful of survivors that only lived because the researcher on the ground had repeatedly violated the prime directive. Even going so far as to become romantically involved. And while it isn’t stated, there’s another issue with trying to save them at that point. Inbreeding. Quite simply, there’s not enough of a population to be sustainable. They’re already doomed. It's just going to take a generation or two instead of minutes now and it will be incredibly painful for them. As for which organization to run with if the Federation isn't an option? There's really no good options that we of. Most of the other major governments are too isolationist and xenophobic for my tastes or have vastly screwed priorities. Are any of the now defunct governments that formed the UFP an option?
I agree that the federation seems benign or even good, but Starfleet is absolutely the military government of earth (that is; you never hear anyone say "earth is part of the UFP" it's always "starfleet is part of the UFP" and I think we can all agree that starfleet is (at the time of TNG and Voyager, which I am the most familiar with) a military organization. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, mind you, since the Federation absolutely needs a military. In fact I always assumed that the Federation was a reactionary military alliance formed by people afraid of the Klingons and Romulans, both military titans in alpha quadrant.
RedShirt047 You're missing the point. The Federation is the lie that we can "respect" all cultures and get along despite divergent beliefs. Even if you could eliminate scarcity, which is itself somewhat contradicted by episodes dealing with war, you can't don't wish beliefs into harmony. Despite Marx's claims to the contrary, not all conflicts are economic in nature. Ideologies don't just "get along".
If anyone here is missing the point, it's you Kidd. You're a shining example of the kind of people I mentioned in the post. Also, where are you getting Marx from? I didn't even address economics as a source of conflict in my post.
Well Zeta, you're partially right. The direct predecessor of the Federation, the Coalition of Planets, was founded in no small part due to the threat of the Romulan Star Empire. Post Romulan war, the original four governments merged into the Federation and in part or in whole combined their military and exploration forces into Starfleet. Starfleet, however, is not the military government of Earth. Earth, in canon, is a parliamentary republic. We just don't hear much about the government due to the conventions of an episodic narrative and conservation of detail. That's part of the reason why it was such a big deal during the DS9 episodes Homefront/Paradise Lost when Earth was briefly put under marshal law following an apparent Dominion terror attack that crippled Earth's power grid.
Fantastic in-depth analysis! It reflects my feelings I have watching TNG. The hierarchical, non-individual structures onboard the ship contradict the idea of exploration and this versatility, postulated by Picard, as well as the conflicts he had with his superiors and the idealized reputation of the Starfleet Academy, which appears very military in nature. I really wonder, and this is a point you have mentioned, how do all the alien races, their traditions, and possibly non-humanoid psychological makeup fit within the rules and regulations of the federation? It really appears very human-centric and by extension hypocritical.
In reality: Star Trek is a product of 1960s american TV. Made for a country which thought that his own values are of course suitable for everybody else in the world without any question. In Star Trek: The federation originated from an defensive-alliance of a handfull of species. Therefore the miltary-branch is heavily dependand on the infrastructure and organisation of the founding-members. And the federation itself is a bunch of very small single-planet systems in a former unimportant and divided part of the galaxy. Its perhaps a little bit like the City-States and Alliances in Ancient Greece with Athen at the central and dominating part.
They never should have disbanded the M.A.COs and maintained a clearly defined military doctrine. Every Starfleet vessel should be as heavily armed as is technically possible and all possible effort should be put into stay on the cutting edge.
Honestly I would side with the Klingons. I mean yeah they are ruthless and warlike. But at least you can count on the Klingons to act like Klingons. They will "mostly" never stab you in the back, they will stab you in the face. Also I would rather have the "Imperial Defence Force" on my side than "Starfleet". Just sayin'. :)
I feel like the Romulans are more civilized. Belligerent in their own way, but they have style and manners. Even though the Klingons have a caste system much like Feudal Japan, they are still very overtly barbaric, living food, violent sexual rituals, command-by-fist etc. The Romulans, predictably, are more like the Romans: Organized, disciplined and don't simply butt heads, literally and figuratively. They have a proper Senate (or did, anyway) and from what we see of the capital, at least some beautiful cities.
Dakathi66 true in essence, but they always seem to be lacking than it comes to engineering methodologies, at least in terms of thinking outside the box(or boxes I suppose...) especially when dealing with, and opposing those like humans... for humans their intrinsic flaws, their weaknesses are also their strengths, as they’ve made them so, and proven with their own history, history that’s often necessitating having to survive against own species; humans’ are much messier brains and thought structure, indeed, simultaneously more rigid and oft reckless too. But that also makes them Far Far more dangerous than any other naturally aggressive or technologically advanced species... more reasons s to steer clear and remain xenophobic, at least against humans and humanoids... you can really see the point behind the Dominion, getting things done quietly enough for the most part, especially after being suppressed and oppressed for uncounted millennia... Not to emotion there are still those we’ve seen for a long long time, and yet understand very little about, all mostly speculation... Tholians for example... perhaps they are the only real inter dimensional power, with all Tholians, across all various universes being a part of one Tholian union(I mean they all seem at least quite aware of time travel and parallel universes...)well, I’d like to think so anyway... it’s what I would’ve established anyway given their penchant for dealing with such matters and their own territories being so riddled with dimensional tears and pockets, to which they still seem really attached...
The problem with late comers is that much of the Quadrant has already been established. There is a LOT of star systems in the established space and if you are like first contact humans and just recently discovered FTL your options are a bit limited. If you are not already within the space of an existing empire then odds are you might have some room to expand but best make it quick. Also with the size of the federation and it having 180+ species it's easy to say "Oh look at these other species getting all this space to just themselves." but if we maintain a fairly even distribution of alien species that would mean that other empires with similar size territories have oppressed or enslaved around 180+ species themselves. Just as Bajor was probably a footnote when dealing with the Cardasians prior to their independence there are likely hundreds of similarly subjugated worlds throughout the alpha quadrant. Being top dog is tempting but the reality is very few get to be on top, which means the others don't really get a say. This is why a united ruling body made up of various representatives can be quite appealing as going it alone means your more likely to be underfoot rather than be the ones standing on top. Given what we have seen from the early days of Star Fleet this is most likely the primary reason for the formation of the Federation. Humans were at the time late comers to the galaxy, though by current calendar standards they were early. But at the time there were already several warp capable species which had been around for a long time. The Klingons and the Romulans have been around longer than the Federation and were well established due in part to them being among the first, after all it's easy to expand and crush other species when they don't have warp drives or large fleets. The early conflicts of Star Fleet, especial with the Romulans, help to reinforce just how out matched they potential were and given the similarly limited forces of the other early races it made sense to come together in common defense. In fact I suspect the Federation is a natural response to overly aggressive expansion of the other races pointed to in the video. Had the Klingons and Romulan empires not been around and of such a sizable threat it's possible the federation would have never formed and the alpha quadrant would look more like Europe with a bunch of small Nations, rather than being like the US with a bunch of states under a larger Federal Government. The Federation if far from perfect but for most species just joining the galactic stage it's likely the best option out of a lot of bad ones if you consider most of the concerns raised in the video as bad. As some things, like cultural contamination is going to happen with any contact regardless of if they join. It's why Romulans don't let people come and go freely out of their empire, as no contact means no contamination to their culture, along with the whole not wanting their secrets to get out.
PyroMancer2k I still don’t understand what happened to all those ancient super powers that decided to stay xenophobic and not join in with any of the established powers or ones being establishing... there were so many in TOS... or the greater story behind the Gorn ancestors or the lost super powers of the galaxy...
Well I think they have mostly been retconned away. Sometimes things get retconned by pretending that they never existed. For those that don't, like the Gorn, it seems they mostly just remain stagnate in their own corners of space.
@@bevvox The Organians, like the Q, don't really care about corporeal life all that much in the same way we don't care about wolf packs. Just enough to not want to watch us go in an all-out fight, but not enough to help progress to their state of evolution.
The good thing about living under Klingon hegemony, is they more or less let you do whatever you want, while they do all the fighting. You just have to surrender resources to the war effort. So they're not going to take away your Romulan Ale or your Orion Slave Womenz.
I think you are missing a key point in your assessment. For most worlds it is not a choice to NOT join. There are only three choices; join the Federation in some capacity, go it alone, or be absorbed by a less benevolent empire like the Klingons or even some lesser power like the Nausicans. The Alpha Quadrant is not kind to single systems going it alone - see Bajor. The problem with understanding why some join and some do not cannot be made from a human personification as other cultures do not place the same values - if they do it all - on the same aspects of union. Some simply want to be left alone - Sheliak - regardless of any external threat. Some desire membership because they live in a really bad neighborhood - Bajor. Some try to have their cake and eat it too with the Federation - Ba'ku. Some have the luxury of waiting for a time to prepare their people for the state of the galaxy in which they live - Malcor. But, for most of them, it is about being practical. The Federation hands rest very lightly on a member world. Star Fleet does not station troops, Federation law only governs how world's interact with one another with some exceptions such as slavery, certain types of technology - subspace weapons. Then again some races only join one or more of the lesser aspects of the Federation such the Interspecies Medical Exchange. There are many ways to join the Federation and not be a member and even once a member it is a custom fit, not a one size fits all. Thinking of this in terms to the United States. Guam is a US territory but Kansas is a US state, while both are American, they are very different. Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia and Illinois, again all three are very different, but all are American. Ecuador and El Salvador are not America but both us the US Dollar as their primary currency. Neither Costa Rico or Panama field a military relying solely on the US military for protection, yet neither are America. Rodenberry modeled the Federation on the United States, members could get in as far as they liked without having to go all the way and being tied to such a large community allows those smallest members to retain more sovereignty then they would have otherwise.
But they cannot get out of the USA. Nations in the EU can leave. The EU has a wide range of levels of integrations (Norway vs. Switzerland vs. Turkey vs. Schengen countries vs. Euro countries vs. Britain vs. full members of the EU).
Then there are crafted goods. Other people can tell and don't like replicated food. Some things are too large or complex for a replicator to manufacture efficiently.
Totally worth waiting for the rewrite.... If I had to choose another race to align with, I would probably say the Romulans, if nothing else at all: they're strong and they're consistent. Better to keep your friends close and enemies closer...
it also depends on where in the timeline you speak of, I assume after beating down the dominion, the fall of the cardassians, the fracture of romulus after nemesis, and the collapse of the klingon government at the end of ds9, the federation pretty much was standing tall
Only you americans who activly mutilate babies without any real reson. I mean the one Jews and muslims use is still shit but its better then hey its what we do.
Powerful forthought in that method acting. I would argue "Just because it's tradition." and "We're fairly certain God told one guy, who told this other guy, who wrote this book I read, that God wants it. Or at least wanted it in the version of the story that was told before we codified it." are equally valid reasons for mutilating the genitalia of infants.
It should be noted that starships are usually crewed by a single species predominant, it helps with day/night cycles, air temp, luminosity levels and lots of other little things that make a ship comfortable to work in. We only see the Human ships because it's easier on the filming budget. Federation ships crewed entirely by Vulcans and Andorians have been mentioned in the course of the shows.
The thing is that joining the Federation is an option, the rest of the powers will not ask, they conquer you and probably slave or genocide you. I wish our future looks like the Federation and not the Klingon or Romulan.
Sixtus Magicus well yes. But given -any- choice I would prefer being genuinely civilized over all three. Having some actual individual rights, citizen ownership of means of production, a secular state with no Prime Directive, and a government that encourages technological advancement and innovation.
Just because the federation looks like a sparkling snowglobe next to the likes of other fictional civilizations that wouldn't (or really, shouldn't) exist in any stable means is a fallacy in its own right. Personally I'd stay as far as I can away from the fed, if only because of their state enforced control of all means of industrial production. You're a starving dissenter? There is a good risk that you may just find the replicators being unable to service you. Even though such a thing hasn't happened (to my knowledge) in the show, it wouldn't be hard for such a circumstance to take hold, especially due to the moralistic means in which a number of their laws are formulated upon.
Honestly, the ones with ideals I can admire would probably have been the Pre-Federation Vulcans, The Gorn (Actually not that bad according to the Beta Canon), or the Tellerites.
Nicholas Castleton GREAT point! I personally feel bad for the Maquis but cannot condone their actions. They knew the risk of staying in Cardassian space. They chose that.
That rule didn't stop Picard from preventing the removal of the Ba'ku in Star Trek Insurrection, even though the planet they were on wasn't their original homeworld. Which is even more galling when Picard was one of the Federation captains who tried to remove the Federation colonists from the Demilitarized Zone.
Robert Claus In Insurrection, the Sona an Federation also had no claim to the planet. They weren't Federation citizens who chose to stay in Cardassian space.
The planet was in claimed Federation territory. The Ba'ku weren't a pre-warp civilization that developed naturally, they were a technologically advanced race that chose not to use technology. The Maquis were Federation colonists, the Ba'ku weren't even that.
Reminds me of an old African proverb: If you want to go fast go it alone but if you want to go far go together. I would think the Vulcan's are the species to have relations with.
"African" proverb. Could you be a little more specific? 😂 edit: I cannot find the origin either. It's disturbing how all the vast diversity in Africa gets lumped together so clumsily.
@@MatthewLee8383 It may also be that some European made it up and _called_ it an African proverb, like "It takes a village to raise a child" or "walk softly and carry a big stick."
Honestly I might take my chances with the federation. And yes they as well as other empires, have flaws of their own which makes them seem like they're unfit to join in. But for a federation that is not a xenophobia based organization, nor constantly trying to wage war and conquer or subjugate species against their will, I'm likely taking my chances. Breen will be my second option.
The E.U. is a little more sinister and unstable, though. Imagine if you didn't get the worm-aliens out of the admirals in the one episode of TNG... That's the E.U.
These are the same sort of questions nations have or had to ask them selfs to join the European Union or in the past, states to join the United States of America. That's what Brexit all about. Or the discussion of secession of some States, like: Texas (when there is a Democratic federal administration) California (when there is a Republican / Trumpion federal administration) Star Trek, is a metaphor for 'starship' earth, has George Takei ones said.
2:02 In the expanded universe the reasoning was that the UFP settled disagreements peacefully over who would be able to claim or colonize the finite M-class planets which so many species rely on. Starfleet, in turn, would be the collective exploration service which discovered and claimed stakes on new worlds to settle.
"Capin' I did my cultural diversity classes like all the other folks at the academy but all the classes in the universe didn't prepare me for sharin' a turbolift with a lampshade and a spider the size of a pony"- Ethan Kyzak explains why the Federation ideal of diversity can get really disturbing.
Realistically, the Klingons and Romulans are the ones with plot armour. Think of North and South Korea! Which of these is more likely in a hundred years' time to have a presence in space? Totalitarian, repressive societies don't have much of a future as attested by real world history.
While the Romulans clearly have the infrastructure to maintain their Empire, scientifically, economically, politically, and so forth,... the Klingons are another story. Their entire species is basically built on a gimmick, and so many writers are content to just shrug off any questions of how they maintain themselves in the necessary ways. We so often see the Empire nearly tearing itself apart in a power struggle over strong families, even those who are clearly traitors and grasping for power at the behest of a foreign power. A Klingon scientist is almost a laughable idea, and Klingons clearly have little to no concept of economics (reference "The House of Quark"(DS9)), and politically the Klingon Empire is in almost constant internal turmoil. there are many species in Star Trek built entirely on gimmicks, and should not (in any semblance of reality) actually survive
The difference between pre federation and federation times seems to be star fleet coming in and taking over your jobs and forcing you to have a peace treaty with a local species. It’s basically the difference between USA being a collection of countries, each with its own military/currency, occasionally working together (the original version) and the current version of a collection of states sending representatives to meetings to decide what the rules are for one country with one military/currency.
It isn't quite that straightforward, but economic power does give the basis for military power. It doesn't always transfer over efficiently though, a lot of factors are involved in said efficiency. Also, Ferengi are far more likely to exploit you than help you develop. Federation will actively aid you if you give them ideological buttsex. Klingons would be the best to establish ties with _if_ you are strong enough that outright conquest isn't promising to them. Romulans tend to be cold towards everyone, so a lost cause there whatever one might hope to gain. Cardassians are similar to Klingons, except will push you around more if they can. On the flip side, they don't have nearly the military power as the Klingons, so being strong enough to dissuade invasion is easier, though not "easy". With enough military power, I would go with Klingons, or if there were enough systems in place to avoid exploitation, dealing with the Ferengi wouln't be a bad idea as mentioned. But the key would be to have a strong legal and economic heritage to rival theirs.
But the Ferengi abhor direct military power, and can't stand a fair fight. Their political power is all about their economic power. All roads lead to Latinum with the Ferengi.
I'd join in a heartbeat. I heard the Federation ships have carpet throughout. Also I assume heated tile floors as well for when he's gotta make a Captain's Log.
Trill is not a cast based society. Anyone can become a candidate to be a host for a symbiote. They then go through a series of tests to see if they are suitable to be a host. In a caste based system only certain people would be allowed to try to become a host. Which would leave the rest with no hope of being a host.
A lot of Trill are genetically incapable of being joined, making them a caste that receives explicitly worse treatment. And in fact Trill society lies about how few are capable of being joined and fraudulently puts many compatible hosts in the "unjoinable" caste, giving the whole system a clear cultural component.
That is like saying that the British SAS is a caste based organisation because only a very small number are able to successfully get through the training. It is not a caste based system because anyone can try to join but if due to lack of fitness or mental discipline they are unable to get through the training then they fail. That is not a caste based system.
Yeah. But is that not the point. That is was all a farce. I do not remember the episode in detail. But as I remember it UFP was not aware of this injustices. It is bit like how Greece where breaking the rules for being a member of the Euro. They work very hard and making it seem like the fulfilled all the requirements as they wanted the benefits that goes with being a part of the Euro. Once the extent of the cheating was apparent with there collapse of there economy then hard to fix the situation. Throwing them out would create huge problems. But also keeping them in. I would think that the Trill situation would be similar. Where the UFP would likely work moving there society towards a more egalitarian society without expelling them.
pantslizard true that, a better version of Klingons in a way, reasonable too, although I feel they hang on to grudges far too much, understandable given their experiences with the Vulcans but detrimental in the long run, especially with Klingons and Romulans on the look out for opportunities to strike you while you’re distracted...
@@CountArtha Never did get to see how the Tellarites actually contribute to the Feds. Hypothetically speaking, in Archer's time, the Andorians contributed the bulk of military resources, the Vulcans were the scientists, and humans were the middlemen and diplomats. What do the Tellarites contribute? Lawyers?
a "species" cannot join the federation but a faction can there migth be many individual members of a species and when some decide that they want to join the federation that does not mean the rest of them will join it aswell
"Where were they while Bajor was under Cardassian Occupation" isn't quite fair. Using the Memory Alpha dates, the Occupation lasted from 2319-2369. But the Federation wasn't exactly sitting on its hands. An inconclusive war was fought between the Federation and the Cardassian Union from 2347-2366. It is probably fair to say that Bajor was not completely irrelevant to either side in that war. Furthermore there are reasons to believe that even after the war, the UFP helped Bajor in various clandestine ways...
*☼ a fine entry* . good relations w/a hostile border enemy is oft better than alliance w/a gr8 power that will never really step in if it is costly, inconvenient and you dont offer enough. Taiwan & HK come to mind. among others.
There is no official definitive map of the Star Trek universe. I have seen maps in which both the Romulans and Klingons have less territory, and some where the Cardassians have a larger area.
I’ll go for Terran Empire from the Pocket TNG novel “Dark Mirror” that was published before DS9’s episode “Crossover”. In it, the Empire holds all of Saggitarius Arm within its grasp and has defeated both the Romulans and the Klingons.
One does not simply "join" the Borg. They assimilate you, but only if they deem your technology and/or your genetics to be beneficial to them. Otherwise, they just wipe you out. And if they do decide to assimilate you, "you" no longer exist, you're just a dumb drone; there is no place or future there for "you".
QUWYKXZ a singular “you” may no longer exist, but everything you could ever hope to achieve or contribute to the world will continue on in their collective consciousness in its most essential form. And if you ever had any great ideas or plans, they will be continuing your research for you, perhaps even millions of years from now, working on and completing your goals, your plans and projects... now that seems like a legacy of knowledge in action My take on things anyway...
Welcome to Section 31's Persons-of-Interest list. :)
The Romulan Ale situation is basically the same as the USA’s Cuban Cigar situation.
Philip Hawkins the romulan ale embargo was lifted after the Dominion war
Actually, the trade embargo with Romulus was due to a cold war. The thing with Cuba only happened after Fidel Castro used the US to take control of Cuba, then turned to Communism and invited the Soviet Union to set up shop 90 miles away from US boarders. But the US and Cuba were never at war.
Jame M How did Castro use the United States to take control of Cuba? We backed the Battista regime.
Jame M - basically the same in the broad strokes. Regime don’t agree with so impose economic sanctions such as banning goods imported from said area.
Jame M I think that the actual Cold War with the USSR and its puppet states like Cuba has something more to do with it. Read up on the Cuban Missile Crisis for some context.
Don't get assigned to a Miranda-class ship, they're guaranteed to get blown up whenever there's a space battle!
Especially if flying nearby ships with main characters on them.
Considering they are 100 year old light escorts pushed into emergency frontline duty.... Yeah, Imagine Bensons in a modern fleet engagement. Brrr.
A Miranda class starship was, in it's day, well equipped and quite powerful. Reliant, for example. The problem is, Starfleet sunk so much resource into the mass production of them, it can't afford to produce newer, better ships in the same quantities. If there were half as many Galaxy, Defiant, or even Ambassador class ships around, the fleet would be much more up to date, not to mention stronger compared to the more militaristic cultures out there.
I'd request my quarters be right next to the escape pods...
None of what you listed fill the role of light escort. Saber, Norway, Steamrunner or even Defiant would be a much more sensible update to the class.
Oops, replied to the wrong comment. my bad.
Why not join the borg, you'll get connected, meet new races, share ideas, travel to far places using the transwarp conduits, face exiting challenges (caution, there challanges are potentially dangerous, such as the assimilation of Spaces 8472) and your voice will always be heard.
You are never alone, you - at least your memory will be immortal, they always have a place for you, they don't care how you look. You are a part of a big happy family who work together towards one goal :)
*your - the " ' " symbol stands for a vowel. There is no vowel in "your", only in "you Are" (you're).
Don't worry, your grammar errors will be autocorrected once you join the Collective.
If the Borg would be less aggressive, then I'm sure there would be plenty of volunteers.
Retcon the Borg queen and it sounds like a pretty interesting deal.
I actually didn't think about that before, you're right. The Federation was in war with literally every major power in the galaxy. Damn.
IKR? It's like "We don't use money!" but every other power does. So guess what, the federation has to use some currency to trade with them. "We promote peace!" but you are surrounded by aggressive expansionary powers, so you gotta learn how to fight. They are a big target. Imagine being the power that toppled the Federation, how much respect that would get you from like-minded powers.
@@CertifiablyIngame Earth doesn't use money. But there's a Bank of Bolia.
No. You're looking at it the wrong way. All the other major powers are at war with the Federation, because they want to dominate all the other intelligent life forms in the galaxy. Just like the U.S. has been at war with countries like Germany because they wanted to rule Europe. And now they do, thanks to the EU.
The Klingons have been too, and they have experienced harsh civil wars on top of it.
When you're the only positive-sum game in town, the others peddling their brand of winner-take-all don't like you. Also, it takes a specific brand of arrogance to hate diversity (cough* me and mine are better than you and yours *cough).
"I know you. I was like you once, but then I opened my eyes. Open your eyes, captain. Why is the Federation so obsessed with the Maquis? We've never harmed you. And yet we're constantly arrested and charged with terrorism. Starships chase us through the Badlands and our supporters are harassed and ridiculed. Why? Because we've left the Federation, and that's the one thing you can't accept. Nobody leaves paradise. Everyone should want to be in the Federation. Hell, you even want the Cardassians to join. You're only sending them replicators because one day they can take their 'rightful place' on the Federation Council. You know, in some ways you're even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. You're more insidious. You assimilate people and they don't even know it."
"lol ur mum gay" -Benjamin Sisko
Or its because they're terrorists trying to break down a treaty that saved millions of lives. Eddington had a massive martyr complex.
The Federation seems to be a lot like the UN.
Except these were former Federation citizens committing acts of war against Cardassia. The Federation -had- to deal with those criminals or it would be forced into a war it didn’t want.
I would say that that also applies to the US - Union of Sovereign States which kept their Sovereignty, it is a good idea when it started but Lincoln said or implied that once joined you are in it for life and can never leave - Like 'Hotel California' by the Eagles.
I want you to try something for me. Take a sip of this.
What is it?
A human drink; it's called root beer.
I dunno...
Come on. Aren't you just a little bit curious? What do you think?
It's vile!
I know. It's so bubbly, cloying...and happy.
Just like the Federation.
And you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it.
It's insidious.
Just like the Federation.
TheNew Pav quark
Quark and Garak had some of the best scenes and interactions in Deep Space Nine.
I have to agree with Garak. Root beer *is* vile. It *is* better than regular beer, but that's not saying much. It still tastes awful. To me anyway.
It's interesting that Quark says, "Human", rather than the derogatory, "You-mahn" in this conversation.
@@johnwclick well eventually the Ferengi sign an association treaty with the Federation, they didn't want to join the Federation because that would have severely limited their options but with negotiation they signed a kind of association agreement that allowed them to send people that wanted to, to Starfleet Academy and set up formal trade routes
You will like the UFP.
It is the greatest power in the quadrant and is the center of all love peace and prosperity.
It takes care of you, and looks after you, it is your religion and your ruler.
UFP is life, UFP is love.
*please don't kill me section 31, I did what you asked for...
I don't want to join the Federation for my reasons,
1. The prime directive.
2. The lack of earth culture.
3. No cloaking device for Federation ships.
4. Romulan and cardassian treaties are terrible
And 5. Starfleet is too weak and the 24th century ships are like luxury Cruisers and they're really easy targets to be destroyed.
@@springtrapstarwar5557
Well, the 'no cloaking device' was reasonable because it was a compromise to keep the 'cold war' between the Klingons, Romulans, and UFP from going 'hot war'. That said when it became clear that the Romulans would look for any reason to break the agreement, the UFP should have said "Quit this crap or we start cloaking device research!"
The UFP ships were known to be superior to Romulan craft at that time and the mere threat of doing that would have made the Romulans come back in line.
I read this using HAL's voice; amusing as hell!
@Kick gum, and chew ass. i rather declare indepance from the federation and form a galactic government for the sucessor to the usa. it will be called the united states of galatic america.
Oh, Hal, Hal, Hal..... you just had to mention us by name...
Would you like us to send your personal effects to your parents on Earth, or your sister on Nova Pittsburgh?
Some of those enemies would be enemies regardless. For example, the Borg.
so would Klingons. and Romulans. And the Dominion.
In fact the Dominion completely rekt the cardassian, romulans and klingon empires. Which is sad considering they all had superior military.
@@Sorestlor In the end the Dominion was forced to surrender to Star Fleet due to an engineered virus created by Division 6. Cardassians and Klingons were forced to make peace in order to rebuild their cripple civilizations. Finally the Romulans lost their home world due to a singularity and are no longer much of a threat.
@@hackman669 They still rekt them. The Iconians are the real threat.
Yes but to this date it seems most of the enemies aren't a thread any more, Dominion is not it the alpha quadrant any more . Romulan lost their homeworld , Cardassians lost the Dominion war wouldn't surprised if they join the federation. Which leaves only Klingon, Borg and some inner enemies and maybe a returning Iconian civilization + unknown. Orion Syndicate their way seems out of place their is a chance they will change their way of life and later join the federation maybe...
2:49 You used my version of the Orion Syndicate logo! Glad to see it's getting some use around the Internet!
I hope you don't mind, I chose it because of its appearance in STO, but now I know who drew it I was able to find your DA account and link it. So thanks for creating a nicer image!
Not a problem at all, that's what I made them for! I hated the old versions of the Orion insignia and the official ones from STO were way too small. Feel free to use any of the other insignias for any future Cultural Indexes.
Been watching lots of your videos the last few days and you have gained a subscriber!
90% of Starfleet is human because of ST production reasons ^^ .. and story telling.. and stuff
Star Trek: Furries Edition.
Hxll, the borg si called assimilated thousands of species, yet we are only ever shown humans in every dxmn encounter!
I actually thought it was human coz we were watching from Earth/Sol System but bases in other planets would have their own type being the majority
Humans also breed like rabbits compared to most of the other Star Trek sentients.
its in canon that the majority is human - simply because most other member are either industrial less strong, less populous or they maintain their own fleet and only commit a small or no percentage at all to star fleet
Which species would you choose? The borg chooses you.
Twi'lek all the way!!!
ask the Maquis why not to join.
TheAtheistPaladin Yea
I kind of like the Romulan "BIG ASS SHIP" doctrine, but they're a little too paranoid for my tastes. Being Vulcan would be awesome. The ability to live for centuries is a huge bonus.
Indeed. I'd probably be rolling a perfect high A in statistics if I was Vulcan.
To be fair, we only get hints and glimpses into how the United Federation of Planets works - most of our focus is on Starfleet, who carry out all the leg work...
Join the Pakled, we search for things to make us go. Simple easy lifestyle.
we give you things and you give us other things, so we can go together.
China
Sounds like MGTOW. We only want the simple things in life. Nothing complicated.
@MLBlue30
You imagining MGTOW jacking off each other seems to involve quite a lot of wishful thinking... :D
We Are Smart
"We don't respect other cultures! We CONQUER them!!!"
- General Martok, KDF
Based
In the Klingon Academy game. General Chang: "They didn't acquire these territories by rite of conquest, but through *disgust* diplomacy! *disgust*"
Honestly, I think I wouldn't want my race joining for two reasons.
1. The ban on cloaking research.
2. The ban on genetic research.
Both have proven to be tremendously powerful shown many times as the Romulans use their cloak 100% of the time and the fact that a single genetically modified human has easily taken over thousand person ships (Klingon and Human) multiple times.
L4Z3RF4C3 the ban on cloaking tech is only due to a treaty with Romulans and since its canon that Romulus blew up (thanks JJ) the Star Empire is in better place for renegotiation
And there isn’t a ban on genetic research but a ban on modification because the side effects are too severe , bashir being an exception not the rule
In the first Titan book Riker is told in no uncertain terms that after the disaster that was Shinzon Starfleet Command considered the Treaty of Algeron null and void.
As to genetic engineering it is not banned genetic augmentation is. True the "super soldier" project that created Ensign Jannos overcame the flaws of the Khan pattern augments by combining species and only including a rudimentary intelligence so there was no chance of "super Hitlers" but even that backfired spectacularly causing a secession and a war with the Tholians shortly after the Dominion armistice.
@@DarthAzabrush You say that, but it comes down to semantics when the Federation was willing to more or less let Andoria die, as the only real way to save the Andorian species was cutting down on their mating to only need two sexes, instead of four, and they'd temporarily left the Federation. This is a founder species of the UFP and they were willing to just let them go extinct over this. It's not just augmentation, it's any modification on a genetic level that is not directly lifesaving for the individual. Furthermore, it is outright moronic that so many species are bound by the misfortune of one or two, and the Federation itself had not fully outlawed it until long after foundation -- it was originally JUST a human ban on it, if memory serves.
@@Recoil1808 Denobula, Ilyria and a fair few other member worlds would never have joined if the ban was all species. The Andorian issue in the books was entirely the fault of whoever classified the meta genome research with such a high clearance that the President didn't even know about it. The Andorians refused a lot of the regular gene treatments offered because they would have lost their 4 sexes.
@@DarthAzabrush Right, thanks for the correction on that. I was going off the limited info on the wikis, so that's my fault.
frankly, I don't think that the Prime Directive and the non-intervention ideas are any specific laws. I think they are more...outlines
Patrick Lenigan ermmmm. general Order 1????
For Kirk they were.
You don't get court-martialed for violating an outline.
Many of the flaws in the Federation can be traced back to a failure in writing during the TNG era's later years. Many times some writers directly contradict what had come before just to tell their story. Some of them didn't want to see the Federation as an idealistic society, so they purposefully wrote in ways to make it seem distasteful, and everything thereafter was forced to maintain these precedents because "canon".
The whole purpose of the Federation in Star Trek was to be a brighter future we would hope to one day achieve, as if as a platform for saying "the world seems like a horrible place today, but a brighter future can come if we all work toward it". Yet, down the road, writers wanted things to be "more realistic" to today's problems, which completely invalidates the whole reason for the Federation and Star Trek's existence. Rick Berman may be the principal culprit to blame for that
while you are right that later writers broke canon in order to tell their stories, Gene Roddenberry also did this with the whole not a military but it is a military thing, or the no money but with money thing. same thing happens with elves in fantasy. they are idealistically Utopian, and so everyone wants their version to be the thrown into the mix. it can't maintain internal consistency, but because it was made to be Utopian it was made unable to maintain internal consistency.
So you mean the writers that actually made TNG actually a good series? Thank GOD they broke from Roddenberry's shit.
And thank gd for those writers. The federation due to simple logic cannot be a utopistic society, and writing it as such would be an insult to the intelligence of the viewer.
Its a bigger insult to ones intelligence that we are so mired in our current ways of thinking about things that we feel it is impossible things can ever change, even though they change with every passing century. It is pure unabashed arrogance to feel you are currently at the heights Humanity will ever reach.
Sure. Becuse Humans will stop striving for self betterment, caring about those close to them, and abandon independent thought on the altar of the promise of a Utopia. Because what the society you suggest would take.
I just rewatched the TNG episode "legacy" and the fact Turkana IV even exist is a blemish on the Federation. It is a huge humanitarian crisis the Federation willingly allowed to happen. Even though Turkana IV was unaffiliated, the Federation still would have been obligated to resecure the settlement in order to safeguard citizens that were likely trapped in the chaos at no fault of their own. The Federation had the "military" means to do so, and refusing to is one of the Feds most cold-hearted and cruel actions of all Trek.
Turkana renounced the federation and the federation stuck to general order 1 and the prime directive to not interfere except for when they did, but here's a question the border colonies with Kardashian didn't renounce the federation the federation gave them away but still trying to keep authority over the people why?
I always wonder what would happen to an emergent species that popped up on the Federations doorstep there must be a whole bunch of them - who are not happy about being territoriality surrounded and having their ships searched all the time. I guess he Cardassians were close to being that. But what if in the space of a century some planet decided it wanted to be a big cheese and it's territory was inside the federations sphere of influence.
Could get awkward - the Federation would either have to oppress them harass them or even exterminate their ability to travel in space and quarantine them. It's possible they could even set off a subspace sink hole device and leave them stranded with no way out short of sleeper ships.
Section 31 has joined the chat
Something that was pointed out to me about the Romulans, Cardassians, to a lesser degree Klingons, and maybe the Breen, is that they're fucking terrified of the Federation. They're geographically hemmed in, and maintaining sovereignty over their borders is extremely difficult with a neighbour like the Federation. UFP has fantastic defence. Whenever anyone attacks them, they just lock down their borders and funnel overwhelming manpower to the area of the problem, not to invade and take over territory, but to simply destroy the will for military solutions of their neighbour. They don't invade, not because it's too costly, or against their morals, but because their diplomatic way just works better.
A real life precursor to this may be the Norwegian solution for global security. Instead of having a standing military army to physically take strategic areas, Norway used their oil boom money to invest in a global foreign securities fund, wherein they used all that oil money SOLELY for investments into politically potentially dangerous nations, and developing hotbeds. The reason for this is that, sooner or later, these nations are going to be incentivized to use brute force to expand their hegemony, so Norway slides into their DMs, like "Hey, we'll invest in your country. No strings attached." but then when that country invades their neighbours, Norway calls them up, like "Yo, stop invading your neighbours, or we'll pull out our investments." and the invading nation has the choice of continuing to invade, but gain virtually no profits, because their home economy has just tanked, or to give up on the invasion and go home, because otherwise, their economy will tank.
The UFP doesn't want to oppress you. It wants to exploit you. It doesn't want to take away your personal freedoms or happiness, just your ability and desire to manufacture your own destiny. It doesn't want you to be unhappy, because unhappy nations seek to challenge the status quo. A slave who is happy will never relinquish his chains. The Rick and Morty Unity episode has a great line about this.
"Unity, I don't think Summer is saying life without you would be great. Just that it would be... Life."
@@BenjiQ575 to make matters worse this is all talking about Prime Timeline UFP, considering that Kelvin Timeline UFP is more militerist to START thanks to Nero
There are many such examples of this. And the UFP simply leaves them alone if they decide not to join or are unaware of the UFP if they don't have warp drive yet (the prime directive.)
But there is also Empires like the Satarran Empire and the Lysian Alliance both completely surrounded by Federation Space. Those two are at war with eachother and technologically inferior to StarFleet however the UFD leaves them be.
@@BenjiQ575 Well the alternative is General Order 24. I honestly don't get it. People say the Federation is pacifist when its ships are armed, they say they're weak when they regularly go head on with the great military powers of their region and others, and say they're oppressive if they try to maintain peace within their territory and keep other powers from unleashing chaos and death in their sphere of influence.
Joining the UFP is optional.
Joining the Romulans, Klingons, Cardassian, Dominion, Borg is compulsory - join or be wiped out.
AdeptPaladin yea I’d join the federation. I would rather join them xD
@@Cyborous I dunno, the Klingons are pretty chill on the lower rungs. all the drama only comes to the people on the top, and the people resisting.
@Mighty Fist Of Zeon! -- The Federation only continues to exist BECAUSE it's a buffer state between five different highly militant expansionist powers. Their continued existence is strategically ESSENTIAL to both the Romulans and the Klingons.
Militant pacifism and obsessive bureaucracy and a facade of moral integrity are ideal traits in someone seeking to maintain a stalemate. The Federation doesn't seek to defeat anyone BECAUSE it can play its enemies off against each other and always present itself as the least worst option. Thus fostering alliances of convenience.
The primary strategy during the Cardassian Border Wars was to destroy enemy fleets in detail but avoid ground combat as much as possible FOR SIXTY YEARS. This encouraged the Cardassians to become even more militant and expend enormous resources on building ships and a large standing army rather than economic or technological development.
By the end of DS9 their entire government, economy, infrastructure, legal system and moral codes are all essentially destroyed and over half their population are dead and the Federation has barely built its first purpose warships in over a century.
They could have ended the whole thing in 20 minutes with a couple Genesis Devices. But instead, they played a longer game and preserved the balance of power in the quadrant.
@@Grizabeebles: Sounds like what we did to end the Cold War.
@@brodriguez11000-- ending the cold war (to my knowledge) relied heavily on Mutually Assured Destruction to prevent general war and proxy wars and arms races to drain the Soviet economy.
Sounds pretty Federation.
1. Didn't the Klingons nearly drive themselves to extinction with the destruction of Praxis because they lacked resources, and ran to the Federation for help?
2. Weren't the Maquis completely wiped out?
Look at the size of the Klingon empire on the map. Should such a vast region of space be reliant on the resources of one moon?
@@HenriZwols Look at the expanse of Human space. If Earth was destroyed, they'd be pretty fucked, don't you think?
1. Yes and no. Praxis was one of their major energy suppliers but losing it wasn't the problem. The waste killing the homeworld and the massive cost of their military forces them to make peace with the Federation.
2. Only after Cardassia joined the Dominion and zerk rushed them with jemhadar.
@@Citrakite Like romulan empire/republic after the destruction of the homeworld system
The Klingons did not run to the Federation for help, they ran to the Federation to sign a peace treaty that would allow them to downsize their massive, expensive military. They were very much capable of taking care of themselves despite the Praxis incident if they existed in a vacuum, but they did not. They were surrounded by hostile powers (Granted, most of those were hostile because of their own actions.) that needed to be pacified one way, or another, to allow them the shift in focus to fix their issues. There were certainly elements in the Klingon government who were convinced that they could do that pacification by a quick war, so its not like the Klingons were helpless or in need of foreign aid besides a guarantee that they would not be attacked.
You struggled... because you see the reality of each species independently, and are not distracted by the forced perspective of each of the alternate species, through Federation eyes. No nation, real or in ST lore, is as noble as it thinks it is. I'm a huge Star Trek fan and you did an awesome and commendable job on this project.
"If you seek peace, plan for war" Roman phrase, this also applied to the Federation, and is the reason for the many wars., the others (great Powers) have the same Idea as well ;)
Aside from a clear disdain towards humans in TOS, I've never really seen the Klingons be racist. It is my impression that they respect strength and honour alone. If you are strong and honourable, I think you can make it within the Empire, regardless of your race...
@Mighty Fist Of Zeon! But wasn't there an episode where Martok says his application to the Klingon military academy was rejected because Kor found him to not have any noble blood ties, and so was unfit on that ground alone. And then Martok said he would have a difficult time being Chancellor since he was from an impoverished area of the homeworld. Seems like a lot of bigotry to me.
The Klingons are just chauvinistic. Their most common insult is to put another Klingon's "blood" into question, as though mixing with other cultures makes you less Klingon and therefore less of a warrior.
@@oldtwinsna8347 that's not bigotry, that's prejudice.
We see Curzon Dax as being highly respected among Klingons, to the point that Jadzia Dax was also automatically honored simply for having a "blood tie" to Curzon. So, yes and no. You could as an ambassador or other diplomat make friends with High Houses, but you as a Hur'q would not gain any personal standing outside of joining one of the houses. You would not gain any commands, you would not find a seat on the council. Respected by klingons in general, sure... but you would not have power in the government or military.
This is why the Ferasans (basically Caitan Augments, like Khan) were conquered by the KDF, but serve in the KDF and are valuable members of their society. They are physically strong, fierce, and dangerous to fight. Which Klingons appreciate and value.
I remember one episode where a Federation Explorer found a primitive alien planet with two species, one of which was dying out because of a disease. Despite being able to cure it easily, the explorer refused to on the basis that the dying species was "a genetic dead end". In other words he consigned all those aliens to die painfully, and to watch their children die. The Federation liked this decision so much they declared it the basis of the Prime Directive.
Isaac Arthur makes a good point on why the Prime Directive is both cruel (allowing suffering you could easily fix) and impractical (all it takes is one person who disagrees with it and owns a ship to break it).
The unaffected race (the Menk) was treated as lesser individuals by the dying race who were more evolved (the Valakians) and Phlox discovered the disease was genetic and that the Valakians reached their "evolutionary dead end." He also predicted that they would be extinct in like 200 years while the Menk seemed to be on an evolutionary breakthrough that might lead them to become the dominant species on the planet. So, by curing the Valakians they would be consigning the Menk to stay subservient to the Valakians. Plus they gave them a treatment for the symptoms so they wouldn't all be dying painfully as you say.
Dear Doctor. One of my faves.
@@zax2004 That episode was written by an idiot who has no understanding of how evolution actually works and if you think large swathes of people dying all at once leaving behind more corpses than there are people to bury them isn't going to cause some kind of epidemic that might affect the Menk you aren't very bright either. If the Menk ARE developing they would eventually figure out how they were being treated was wrong and start demanding equal rights. In time they would probably have gained them as well considering that is pretty much how societies change and develop over time amyway.
@@moralityisnotsubjective5 If you couldn't tell that i was describing the episode and the conclusions they came to in the show, then you aren't that bright yourself.
However, since you want to create an argument...
You don't seem to understand how evolution works either because when a more dominant species is present it tends to stifle less dominant ones.
Look at the way things are now in the US even though we are talking within the same species. The ones with power hoard resources and keep the rest in competition for what little is left over which keeps them busy enough trying to survive that most don't realize they are being mistreated and those who do rarely have time to fight for equal rights. You can see how well the fight for equal rights is going. Everyone is equal right? Native Americans eventually gained equal rights... LGBT eventually gained... Oh.
Also, I can't remember there being any reason to assume there would be a series of sudden mass extinction events where the Valakians all die suddenly in large groups like you are suggesting that would "[leave] behind more corpses than there are people to bury them."
@@zax2004 That's not evolution. That's social dynamics Evolution is about genetics and passing on your DNA. As tvtropes puts it:
Evolution leads species to inadvertent extinction all the time, usually from something like overspecialization, such as a single species parasite being out of luck if that species itself goes extinct. But the idea of a straight up genetic disease, somehow treatable with antibodies yet interfering with protein production to the point of death, spreading enough to doom an entire species, is simply nonsense.
Phlox believes, based on scant and untested evidence from less than 2 days of information gathering and genetic profiling, that the Menk will someday be the dominant sentient species on the planet if the Valakians go extinct. But assuming future evolution from current trends, and making a medical conclusion based on that, is extremely arrogant and shortsighted. In addition, evolution has competition as a large component; far from 'holding them back', their relationship with the Valakians could in fact be what is driving the Menk to become more intellectually sophisticated, and Phlox is in fact dooming both species
Conflation of theory and Scientific Theory on the topic of evolution, but reversed from the usual misconception that evolution is 'only' a theory; Archer (accurately) says that the conclusions of Phlox concerning the relationship of the Valakians and Menk are only a theory, which Phlox in his response dismisses by deferring to the Theory of Evolution. This is a non sequitur, since Archer was clearly using the term generically to refer to what in scientific parlance would be a hypothesis, something which needs testing and is certainly not a final conclusion.
Whether or not the Valakians die in large numbers or gradually WOULD depend on the nature of the disease they are suffering. If it's anything like the Black Death though it would be quite nasty as that killed one third of the population of Europe. World wide it has been estimated to have killed 75 million people. Hopefully it wouldn't be THAT bad, but the show didn't really give enough information to make that determination if memory serves.
I wrote this on the other video before I saw this one, so why not repeat myself!
The Federation is quite incompetent.
-The Galaxy Class Starships are prone to viruses that can even destroy the entire ship (USS Yamato) Apparently there isn't a honeypot protocol to insulate the ship's core systems, and they are supposed to be the best ships ever built.
-The Fire Suppression System almost never works
-No one knows how the holodeck works, it doesn't have an easily accessed off switch and artificial hologram people are actually capable of controlling or damaging the ship and the "outside" world.
-The Ships are so poorly designed that they can be hijacked or crippled with a very small crew, (the Binars) or even one (Rogue Data)
-Medical Technology does not seem to be very good as diseases seemingly easily spread (the Naked Now), and some medical personnel seem confounded by simple emergency procedures like using a splint to set a limb. Even one of the top surgeons was clueless as to how to fix Picard's heart...something that could be replaced in the 20th century.
-Star Fleet Command was easily infiltrated by visually detectable brain bugs, almost bringing the Command to collapse
-The Federation restricts trade, such as Romulan Ale
-Simple animals such as Tribbles can endanger an entire ship
-The Federation keeps children and non-Federation personnel on board their "science" vessels when those same vessels are frequently deployed to battle.
-Communications are, apparently, a Federation monopoly
-Earth doesn't seem to have advanced much as all, as homes can still catch fire and kill people
-Replicator technology produces inferior foodstuffs, according to O'Brien who misses "real" food, Scotty, who laments the weakness of "Synthahol" and Troi being annoyed and bored at the "healthy" chocolate the replicator makes.
-The Federation makes bad treaties, such as with the Cardassian, displacing the residents of several planets. Especially given that the Cardassians had repeatedly demonstrated they had no interest in peace.
-They have no problem displacing many inhabitants of several worlds to satisfy a treaty with a hostile power, but can't properly negotiate a way to work with the few dozen Bakku in order to cultivate the life-preserving radiation that surrounds their planet.
-Sponsored Scientists face little oversight and dangerous materials such as Proto-matter can be used without Starfleet supervision
-"Mars Defense" is a pathetic joke.
-The Federation has very little contact with the outside Galaxy as the Borg were a surprise when first encountered, despite Guinan and other refugees having known about them decades earlier. The Federation had little clue about the Ferengi until they bumped into each other.
-Starfleet seems to gobble up resources as private vessels are rare, and almost always small, clunky, dirty and unreliable.
-They can't decide on whether or not they actually use money
-The prime directive is often abused, used inconsistently, and most worryingly, used as an excuse to allow entire civilizations to die. The excuse being that a non-aligned culture has the "right" to evolve on it's own, and yet if a civilization is facing impending doom, by definition it can't evolve any longer. Saving people who would be the only way to allow any further evolution, natural or not.
I could go on and on.
kev3d oh please, go on, I have not read one of those StarDetroyer.net’s Federation Rants in over 10 years.
I don't know what Stardestroyer.net is, but it wouldn't surprise me if other people found the same flaws over the years, since they are pretty glaring. I could also go over how Starfleet saw fit to promote Janeway to Admiral when she knowingly, and willingly murdered Tuvix, an independent, sentient being who protested his own sacrifice.
Amarganeitor I can’t tell if that’s sarcasm or not... on the internet nobody can hear your inflection...
There were sacrifices made along the way, but she managed to keep most of her people alive in hostile territory without any support or backup. Keeping Tuvix would have meant sacrificing Tuvok and Nelix, so it was a classic no win scenario all around, you could tell at the end Janeway was still bothered by her choice.
I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic, Alex. StarDestroynet is infamous for it's (often highly inaccurate) pro -'Wars / anti- 'Trek bias.
Which other organization would I want to be a part of, if the Federation does not exist or is not an option? Why, the Citadel Council/Alliance, of course! ;P
Seriously though, The Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and Bajorans are, for all intents and purposes, non-options unless you are already at least as powerful as they are, or more so; if you're not, well...
The Bajorans are usually seen as targets by other species, so if you are not a strong power already, allying with Bajor unfortunately just makes you both bigger targets.
The Cardassians or Romulans will "ally" with you, but unless you're at least as strong as they are, their arrogance and superiority complex will compel them to always view you as a subservient race, never as equals (and "subservient" might be too mild a term, they would most likely think of you as slaves or pets).
And the Klingons would scornfully view you as either prey or just not worthy of allying with, since their great pride is in self sufficiency and domineering strength, the ultimate examples of "Might Makes Right".
Honestly, your best bet in the non-Federation universe would probably be The Dominion; from what has been said, as long as you pledge your allegiance to the Founders and "pay your dues" they are fairly "hands-off" and "do-as-you-please" when it comes to the races under them.
@ Hauke Holst All excellent points, which I agree with; thank you for making them and sharing them with us! :)
QUWYKXZ People forget the Ferengi Alliance, which I actually think is a second-best option. I don’t like all that they do but they tend to keep out of war and they don’t hold back their tech as long as you can pay. IF you have enough savvy to hold your own ground in their markets, they don’t give a damn what you do as long as you keep your contracts.
The Dominion is technically a federation as well. Its members are autonomous states and nobody cares what they're doing as long as they keep their loyalty to the Founders. This maybe even a better option than joining the UFP, because Jem'Hadar will protect you from evil neighbors far better than childish Starfleet.
I'm voting for #Federexit...
Lol!
But we discovered that the Dominion are financing the Federexit party...
I support the federexit.
@@FedoReds88 no they dont
@@springtrapstarwar5557 "I approve!"
(Borg Queen)
All under the guise of friendship, science and progress! Those sneaky bastards!
They're...insidious.
@@chance2smoke Just like that blasted root beer!
Jean d'Esperi they’re beyond left, and right idiocies of today.
@@Cyborous Just like the modern UN, EU and NATO forces of Earth. Sometime they get along but there is a lot of red tape to cut through in order to make any real progress.
Sounds great!
Reason to join:
Possibility of meeting Jadzia Dax
She is dead live or dont even born. Depent of when you land.
Or Ezri. Shes a cutie! 6:08
@5:00 Your arguments on Bajor were covered in the first episode of DS9. Bajor had no treaty with the Federation, So the Feds did not help when the Cardasians invaded. After driving them out, then they signed a defense treaty with the Federation.
Terran Empire seems much more reliable.
sure, thats why they stopped existing for a while, then when they tried to re-form they STILL ceased to exist again... meanwhile the federation has been around for the whole time lol
the terrans are efficient and ruthless, the federation is competent and stable
@@xGoodOldSmurfehx Empire ceased existing as a result of transformation into UFP-like federal republic with a subsequent disarming of the starfleet, which was done by Spock. After that it was quickly conquered by the klingons and cardassians.
But the occupation didn't last for long. After the Terran rebellion succeeded, it formed the Galactic Commonwealth, which is more powerful than UFP. I'd even tell that it's a velvet reincarnation of the Empire.
Been waiting for this one the moment "WHY join the federation" ended!
Be like Norway in the EU. Stay out, but associated with it.
I want to see a series that deals with a movement in the federation that would rebel against the prime directive which would lead to a civil war probably after a data dump about section 13.
Uhhh do you mean Section 31?
Uncle Taylorify, voice to text can do some interesting things.
Captain America 1776 I'm a hobby writer and I've been working on a Star Trek story for years it keeps getting destroyed and I have to start again from scratch most recently in a massive house fire, tired of losing it by computer storage I used a typewriter that's what I ended up having, I have a slightly different view as an element of the story I've been writing a group of people resisting against the federation, for it's not genuinely complying with the prime directive.
I've always thought that there was something incipiently totalitarian about the UFP.
VictorLepanto same
Well, pretty much all we see of the Federation is from the perspective of Starfleet, which is a quite regimented organization. It's obvious that most people in the Federation are not affiliated with Starfleet, and each individual planet has a great deal of sovereignty when deciding how to govern itself - so depending on which Federation world you live on, you might live under a democracy, a monarchy, or an authoritarian regime that does the bare minimum to abide by the Federation charter but is still pretty repressive. And if you live on a research station out in the galactic void, it's probably like living on the frontier where there is barely any law at all. One of the things I like about the Terran Federation in Heinlein's sci-fi novels is that you get a really good idea of how the society is structured, and he goes out of his way to show you that the military is only a tiny, insignificant sliver of the Federation itself.
And in pretty much every case, they impose their own cultural morality on independent groups., never thinking about the integrity of the other alien culture.
All of the other empires would have to have other species not only in their empire but integrated into it in order to maintain such an empire. Yet we never see any.
Well... we do see examples of integration into ONE of them... THE BORG! ; )
Make of that what you will. (I always assumed everybody else just killed every other species, or banished them, and then strip-mined their planets.)
oh. We see a species from the klingon Empire in Ent 2x19 Judgement.
Romulan Empire has Remans and Romulans...
Borg has EVERYTHING
The Dominion has changelings, Jem Hedar, smth else
Mostly we only see their military and political elite. Not really surprising that those are almost exclusively of the dominant species. It's one of the reasons many see the UFP as a human empire.
The Romulans are a vulcanoid species supremacists, other species would likely stay on their worlds serving the Romulan Empire.
I never really understood why star fleet only has the one academy I mean yes as SF forcers military or otherwise goes it's tiny as is the federation . Which last time I checked was less than 200 planets and member races large. But surely it would make since to have at least a small recruiting/training centres on worlds other than earth. What happens if say the federation sets up a permanent out posts in the delta or gamma quordaents the poor souls there have to go all the way to earth to get a bage and uniform. Even the imperium of man isn't that ineffective and it's the fucking imperium
183 members, over 150 homeworlds, but those don't include the colonies of the member races (remember, for membership, the member needs a planetary unified government.)
As for the training centers, Starfleet academy is for the officer corps, and before the Dominion war and Borg, there simply wasn't that big of a fleet to patrol. They used local indigeonous fleets for immediate response, and Starfleet would be brought in later if that failed. Remember, there were 42 Starfleet starships at Wolfe 359, but during the buildup against the Dominion, it expanded to way more than that (thousands of ships) where a single fleet would have about 1200 ships. They never state how manning was achieved (deputization of planetary militias and field commissions, most likely) but they put in the full resources of the Federation for it.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if "Starfleet Academy" was both the name of the complex in San Francisco and an organization with more than one just one campus. Going to Starfleet Academy might not mean going to that specific place, especially not for all semesters.
I forgot to mention this, but in the kevil time line of trek (the movies and universe spawned by the 2009 film) or rather in one of its comic tie in the mini series star fleet academy (which I highly recommend) it indicated that yes nearly every specie capable of maintaining a training centre dose so. for example the Vulcans and the andorions (among others) have a academy that trains the crews and staff needed for their ships, fleets and other installations. however it was more or less stated that these are originations are not affiliated with Star fleet our its proxys. and will peruse their own wants/need and desires so long as the fall with in Fedration law.but I think what I was trying to get at was.the system is deeply flawed as its started motoable times with both cannon and bata sources that star fleet only has the one academy on earth. with maybe recruitment officers placed else were with the Federation but these just recruit they don't train thou the existence of these are uncertain.let me try and explain my issue for you as simplely as I can, say you wish to be a cop of fire man but you were told the only place on earth you could be trained to fulfil this ambition is new Zealand. and you live in Cannda. yes while its not impossible to make the trip it's dame inconvenient. then imagine if you will translate that to the whole population of the earth that wishs to become a cop or fire man. they all have to spend X mouths or even years of their life training in a foreign country just so they can put out a fire down the street from were they lived before they did the above.
300 years later and people still gotta go to San Francisco just to get a decent job. Really gives ya the galaxy sized thonk.
The Federation sounds like the European Union.
And probably just as hard to leave
Yeah, I was just thinking that this video screams Brexit 🤣
It’s time for Texit, Terran exit, let’s take back control!
@@edsr164 humans are the ones who control the federation, what are you talking about?
unless you're mocking the brexiteers....in which case, kudos, you had me fooled for a moment.
And which European Leader first purposed the EU back in the 1930s?
Where were the goes treaties signed? Those two bits of information are revealing
you mixed up The Federation and Starfleet a couple of times there.
Star Fleet is the space naval power of the Federation. It's like confusing the Pentagon for the White House.
@@hackman669 More like mixing up the Pentagon/NASA for the entire United States. Though he did highlight how most people's first contact with the Federation will inevitably be through Starfleet.
Up until the Borg, I was waiting for Starfleet to walk into a situation it couldn't talk its way out of.
Klingons in the Star Trek Online game are very inclusive towards other species and not so demanding of them as the Feds.
Gee wonder where they got that from? Still the Gorn are interested in actually going back to being independent, and the Orion Syndicate has seen their criminal empire booming under Klingon protection. The Ferasan are at least like minded.
This series is great! It’s so rare to find someone that posts analytical videos on Star Trek without descending into completely insane theories that aren’t supported by canon, twisting information, and outright lying in order to get edgy clickbait-y videos claiming that the Federation is actually an evil, fascist organization instead of a peaceful, post-scarcity federal republic.
Although I do have issues with the map. I’ve seen it floating around online, but I’ve never seen it in any canon source. The production team seems to avoid making maps to make writing easier. Plus, any map of the space would have to be 3D and not 2D. Since you could have a border that stretches along any plane.
Also, the other races may have more than one species inside their borders but they may not be considered citizens given the nature of their societies… if they’re still alive that is. Wouldn’t put it past the Romulan, Klingon, or Cardassian governments to wipe out entire species.
And the extinction thing is a bit more… grey. The most famous instance, TNG’s Homeward, was only an issue because a) the disaster that destroyed the planet’s atmosphere progressed too fast for the _Enterprise_ to arrive in time to reverse it and b) there were only a handful of survivors that only lived because the researcher on the ground had repeatedly violated the prime directive. Even going so far as to become romantically involved.
And while it isn’t stated, there’s another issue with trying to save them at that point. Inbreeding.
Quite simply, there’s not enough of a population to be sustainable. They’re already doomed. It's just going to take a generation or two instead of minutes now and it will be incredibly painful for them.
As for which organization to run with if the Federation isn't an option?
There's really no good options that we of. Most of the other major governments are too isolationist and xenophobic for my tastes or have vastly screwed priorities.
Are any of the now defunct governments that formed the UFP an option?
I agree that the federation seems benign or even good, but Starfleet is absolutely the military government of earth (that is; you never hear anyone say "earth is part of the UFP" it's always "starfleet is part of the UFP" and I think we can all agree that starfleet is (at the time of TNG and Voyager, which I am the most familiar with) a military organization. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, mind you, since the Federation absolutely needs a military. In fact I always assumed that the Federation was a reactionary military alliance formed by people afraid of the Klingons and Romulans, both military titans in alpha quadrant.
RedShirt047 You're missing the point. The Federation is the lie that we can "respect" all cultures and get along despite divergent beliefs. Even if you could eliminate scarcity, which is itself somewhat contradicted by episodes dealing with war, you can't don't wish beliefs into harmony. Despite Marx's claims to the contrary, not all conflicts are economic in nature. Ideologies don't just "get along".
If anyone here is missing the point, it's you Kidd. You're a shining example of the kind of people I mentioned in the post.
Also, where are you getting Marx from? I didn't even address economics as a source of conflict in my post.
Well Zeta, you're partially right. The direct predecessor of the Federation, the Coalition of Planets, was founded in no small part due to the threat of the Romulan Star Empire. Post Romulan war, the original four governments merged into the Federation and in part or in whole combined their military and exploration forces into Starfleet.
Starfleet, however, is not the military government of Earth. Earth, in canon, is a parliamentary republic. We just don't hear much about the government due to the conventions of an episodic narrative and conservation of detail.
That's part of the reason why it was such a big deal during the DS9 episodes Homefront/Paradise Lost when Earth was briefly put under marshal law following an apparent Dominion terror attack that crippled Earth's power grid.
RedShirt047- "post-scarcity"? Explain.
Fantastic in-depth analysis! It reflects my feelings I have watching TNG.
The hierarchical, non-individual structures onboard the ship contradict the idea of exploration and this versatility, postulated by Picard, as well as the conflicts he had with his superiors and the idealized reputation of the Starfleet Academy, which appears very military in nature.
I really wonder, and this is a point you have mentioned, how do all the alien races, their traditions, and possibly non-humanoid psychological makeup fit within the rules and regulations of the federation? It really appears very human-centric and by extension hypocritical.
In reality: Star Trek is a product of 1960s american TV. Made for a country which thought that his own values are of course suitable for everybody else in the world without any question.
In Star Trek: The federation originated from an defensive-alliance of a handfull of species. Therefore the miltary-branch is heavily dependand on the infrastructure and organisation of the founding-members. And the federation itself is a bunch of very small single-planet systems in a former unimportant and divided part of the galaxy. Its perhaps a little bit like the City-States and Alliances in Ancient Greece with Athen at the central and dominating part.
Good point, to see the show in a historical context!
How much of the Alpha Quadrant is unexplored?
@@floydlooney6837 They were at about 16% of the Galaxy at the start of TNG. They didn't specify the breakdown by quadrant though.
They never should have disbanded the M.A.COs and maintained a clearly defined military doctrine. Every Starfleet vessel should be as heavily armed as is technically possible and all possible effort should be put into stay on the cutting edge.
Honestly I would side with the Klingons. I mean yeah they are ruthless and warlike. But at least you can count on the Klingons to act like Klingons. They will "mostly" never stab you in the back, they will stab you in the face. Also I would rather have the "Imperial Defence Force" on my side than "Starfleet". Just sayin'. :)
Like with Russia and USA for me view :D
I feel like the Romulans are more civilized. Belligerent in their own way, but they have style and manners. Even though the Klingons have a caste system much like Feudal Japan, they are still very overtly barbaric, living food, violent sexual rituals, command-by-fist etc. The Romulans, predictably, are more like the Romans: Organized, disciplined and don't simply butt heads, literally and figuratively. They have a proper Senate (or did, anyway) and from what we see of the capital, at least some beautiful cities.
I go with the Romulan Republic in Star Trek Onlines extended universe. Because there snappy dressers... >_>
Dakathi66 true in essence, but they always seem to be lacking than it comes to engineering methodologies, at least in terms of thinking outside the box(or boxes I suppose...) especially when dealing with, and opposing those like humans... for humans their intrinsic flaws, their weaknesses are also their strengths, as they’ve made them so, and proven with their own history, history that’s often necessitating having to survive against own species; humans’ are much messier brains and thought structure, indeed, simultaneously more rigid and oft reckless too. But that also makes them Far Far more dangerous than any other naturally aggressive or technologically advanced species... more reasons s to steer clear and remain xenophobic, at least against humans and humanoids... you can really see the point behind the Dominion, getting things done quietly enough for the most part, especially after being suppressed and oppressed for uncounted millennia...
Not to emotion there are still those we’ve seen for a long long time, and yet understand very little about, all mostly speculation... Tholians for example... perhaps they are the only real inter dimensional power, with all Tholians, across all various universes being a part of one Tholian union(I mean they all seem at least quite aware of time travel and parallel universes...)well, I’d like to think so anyway... it’s what I would’ve established anyway given their penchant for dealing with such matters and their own territories being so riddled with dimensional tears and pockets, to which they still seem really attached...
Cythil yes, that too, at least in their earlier years it seems, as the years went on, it seems their fashions have grown duller...
Which species would you choose? The Romulan's, my favorite species of the Star Trek Universe due to there ships not government wise.
I choose... Imperium of Mankind! For the Emperor!
If you have the ability to "choose" the Imperium, trust me they don't want you.
@@PlanetGoddess they respect human but hates xenos, traitors and heretics
Warhammer40K is called ''GRIMDARK'' for A LOT of reasons. You DO NOT want to live in it.
Ah, finally, a fellow imperial, thank the Emperor
The Emperor protests 🙏🏻
Excellent job on this video, can't wait till the next installment Rick, Appreciate it! 👍👍💯
I need to study up on the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition.
The problem with late comers is that much of the Quadrant has already been established. There is a LOT of star systems in the established space and if you are like first contact humans and just recently discovered FTL your options are a bit limited. If you are not already within the space of an existing empire then odds are you might have some room to expand but best make it quick.
Also with the size of the federation and it having 180+ species it's easy to say "Oh look at these other species getting all this space to just themselves." but if we maintain a fairly even distribution of alien species that would mean that other empires with similar size territories have oppressed or enslaved around 180+ species themselves.
Just as Bajor was probably a footnote when dealing with the Cardasians prior to their independence there are likely hundreds of similarly subjugated worlds throughout the alpha quadrant. Being top dog is tempting but the reality is very few get to be on top, which means the others don't really get a say. This is why a united ruling body made up of various representatives can be quite appealing as going it alone means your more likely to be underfoot rather than be the ones standing on top.
Given what we have seen from the early days of Star Fleet this is most likely the primary reason for the formation of the Federation. Humans were at the time late comers to the galaxy, though by current calendar standards they were early. But at the time there were already several warp capable species which had been around for a long time. The Klingons and the Romulans have been around longer than the Federation and were well established due in part to them being among the first, after all it's easy to expand and crush other species when they don't have warp drives or large fleets.
The early conflicts of Star Fleet, especial with the Romulans, help to reinforce just how out matched they potential were and given the similarly limited forces of the other early races it made sense to come together in common defense. In fact I suspect the Federation is a natural response to overly aggressive expansion of the other races pointed to in the video. Had the Klingons and Romulan empires not been around and of such a sizable threat it's possible the federation would have never formed and the alpha quadrant would look more like Europe with a bunch of small Nations, rather than being like the US with a bunch of states under a larger Federal Government.
The Federation if far from perfect but for most species just joining the galactic stage it's likely the best option out of a lot of bad ones if you consider most of the concerns raised in the video as bad. As some things, like cultural contamination is going to happen with any contact regardless of if they join. It's why Romulans don't let people come and go freely out of their empire, as no contact means no contamination to their culture, along with the whole not wanting their secrets to get out.
PyroMancer2k I still don’t understand what happened to all those ancient super powers that decided to stay xenophobic and not join in with any of the established powers or ones being establishing... there were so many in TOS... or the greater story behind the Gorn ancestors or the lost super powers of the galaxy...
Well I think they have mostly been retconned away. Sometimes things get retconned by pretending that they never existed. For those that don't, like the Gorn, it seems they mostly just remain stagnate in their own corners of space.
@@bevvox The Organians, like the Q, don't really care about corporeal life all that much in the same way we don't care about wolf packs. Just enough to not want to watch us go in an all-out fight, but not enough to help progress to their state of evolution.
The good thing about living under Klingon hegemony, is they more or less let you do whatever you want, while they do all the fighting. You just have to surrender resources to the war effort. So they're not going to take away your Romulan Ale or your Orion Slave Womenz.
“But without the Federation, who would serve our Raktajino in Quark’s?”
Quark.
I think you are missing a key point in your assessment. For most worlds it is not a choice to NOT join. There are only three choices; join the Federation in some capacity, go it alone, or be absorbed by a less benevolent empire like the Klingons or even some lesser power like the Nausicans. The Alpha Quadrant is not kind to single systems going it alone - see Bajor. The problem with understanding why some join and some do not cannot be made from a human personification as other cultures do not place the same values - if they do it all - on the same aspects of union. Some simply want to be left alone - Sheliak - regardless of any external threat. Some desire membership because they live in a really bad neighborhood - Bajor. Some try to have their cake and eat it too with the Federation - Ba'ku. Some have the luxury of waiting for a time to prepare their people for the state of the galaxy in which they live - Malcor. But, for most of them, it is about being practical. The Federation hands rest very lightly on a member world. Star Fleet does not station troops, Federation law only governs how world's interact with one another with some exceptions such as slavery, certain types of technology - subspace weapons. Then again some races only join one or more of the lesser aspects of the Federation such the Interspecies Medical Exchange. There are many ways to join the Federation and not be a member and even once a member it is a custom fit, not a one size fits all. Thinking of this in terms to the United States. Guam is a US territory but Kansas is a US state, while both are American, they are very different. Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia and Illinois, again all three are very different, but all are American. Ecuador and El Salvador are not America but both us the US Dollar as their primary currency. Neither Costa Rico or Panama field a military relying solely on the US military for protection, yet neither are America. Rodenberry modeled the Federation on the United States, members could get in as far as they liked without having to go all the way and being tied to such a large community allows those smallest members to retain more sovereignty then they would have otherwise.
But they cannot get out of the USA. Nations in the EU can leave. The EU has a wide range of levels of integrations (Norway vs. Switzerland vs. Turkey vs. Schengen countries vs. Euro countries vs. Britain vs. full members of the EU).
I still cant reconcile the concept of trade in a universe with replicators.
Then there are crafted goods. Other people can tell and don't like replicated food. Some things are too large or complex for a replicator to manufacture efficiently.
Totally worth waiting for the rewrite.... If I had to choose another race to align with, I would probably say the Romulans, if nothing else at all: they're strong and they're consistent. Better to keep your friends close and enemies closer...
it also depends on where in the timeline you speak of, I assume after beating down the dominion, the fall of the cardassians, the fracture of romulus after nemesis, and the collapse of the klingon government at the end of ds9, the federation pretty much was standing tall
Come on, they don't even allow ritual mutilation! Tch, nuff said am I right?
wait... does that mean Kirk and Picard are uncircumsized?
Well I know for definite that Patrick Stewart is Uncircumcised. He revealed it in an hilarious interview on the Graham Norton Show XD
Well, he is British, so no surprise there...
Only you americans who activly mutilate babies without any real reson. I mean the one Jews and muslims use is still shit but its better then hey its what we do.
Powerful forthought in that method acting. I would argue "Just because it's tradition." and "We're fairly certain God told one guy, who told this other guy, who wrote this book I read, that God wants it. Or at least wanted it in the version of the story that was told before we codified it." are equally valid reasons for mutilating the genitalia of infants.
It should be noted that starships are usually crewed by a single species predominant, it helps with day/night cycles, air temp, luminosity levels and lots of other little things that make a ship comfortable to work in. We only see the Human ships because it's easier on the filming budget. Federation ships crewed entirely by Vulcans and Andorians have been mentioned in the course of the shows.
Vulcans and Andorians would kill each other over the thermostat settings.
The thing is that joining the Federation is an option, the rest of the powers will not ask, they conquer you and probably slave or genocide you.
I wish our future looks like the Federation and not the Klingon or Romulan.
Sixtus Magicus Agreed
Sixtus Magicus well yes. But given -any- choice I would prefer being genuinely civilized over all three.
Having some actual individual rights, citizen ownership of means of production, a secular state with no Prime Directive, and a government that encourages technological advancement and innovation.
Just because the federation looks like a sparkling snowglobe next to the likes of other fictional civilizations that wouldn't (or really, shouldn't) exist in any stable means is a fallacy in its own right. Personally I'd stay as far as I can away from the fed, if only because of their state enforced control of all means of industrial production. You're a starving dissenter? There is a good risk that you may just find the replicators being unable to service you.
Even though such a thing hasn't happened (to my knowledge) in the show, it wouldn't be hard for such a circumstance to take hold, especially due to the moralistic means in which a number of their laws are formulated upon.
RedMatter Wrong
stardude2006 Wrong
Honestly, the ones with ideals I can admire would probably have been the Pre-Federation Vulcans, The Gorn (Actually not that bad according to the Beta Canon), or the Tellerites.
The Maquis weren't forced to leave, they were offered other colony planets. They refused electing to stay in Cardassian space.
Howard Gleason they also weren’t native species which the federation law he brings up most likely refers to no forced relocation of a native species.
Nicholas Castleton GREAT point! I personally feel bad for the Maquis but cannot condone their actions. They knew the risk of staying in Cardassian space. They chose that.
That rule didn't stop Picard from preventing the removal of the Ba'ku in Star Trek Insurrection, even though the planet they were on wasn't their original homeworld. Which is even more galling when Picard was one of the Federation captains who tried to remove the Federation colonists from the Demilitarized Zone.
Robert Claus In Insurrection, the Sona an Federation also had no claim to the planet. They weren't Federation citizens who chose to stay in Cardassian space.
The planet was in claimed Federation territory. The Ba'ku weren't a pre-warp civilization that developed naturally, they were a technologically advanced race that chose not to use technology. The Maquis were Federation colonists, the Ba'ku weren't even that.
Weren’t there also cases of some member species threatening to leave the federation whenever starfleet tries to make warships because reasons?
Reminds me of an old African proverb: If you want to go fast go it alone but if you want to go far go together. I would think the Vulcan's are the species to have relations with.
The Vulkans are part of the Federation, though. One of the founding members, in fact.
"African" proverb. Could you be a little more specific? 😂
edit: I cannot find the origin either. It's disturbing how all the vast diversity in Africa gets lumped together so clumsily.
@@MatthewLee8383 It may also be that some European made it up and _called_ it an African proverb, like "It takes a village to raise a child" or "walk softly and carry a big stick."
"I re-wrote because I wasn't happy with the quality of the writing."
>still frame from Discovery
🤔what could it mean
Whhaaaaatt? Nooo.. I'd never.
Honestly I might take my chances with the federation. And yes they as well as other empires, have flaws of their own which makes them seem like they're unfit to join in. But for a federation that is not a xenophobia based organization, nor constantly trying to wage war and conquer or subjugate species against their will, I'm likely taking my chances. Breen will be my second option.
If the Federation wasn't an option. I'd hop universes and join the Interstellar Alliance in Babylon 5.
So basically the EU.
rndom persn the EU is not a federation is a confederation
I thought the same thing...
rndom persn the 3
EU tends to be a little more invasive and controlling but i understand why you would make the comparison
rndom persn No
The E.U. is a little more sinister and unstable, though. Imagine if you didn't get the worm-aliens out of the admirals in the one episode of TNG... That's the E.U.
I think I'd try doing what the Federation originally did. Form an alliance with just a few races with a pact to helping each other.
yeah, the Federation has been a pain-in-the-ass for a LONG time...
"LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!?!" ;>)
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A very interesting video and a side of Star Trek and the Federation one doesn't often have spotlighted. Good job!
These are the same sort of questions nations have or had to ask them selfs to join the European Union or in the past, states to join the United States of America.
That's what Brexit all about.
Or the discussion of secession of some States, like:
Texas (when there is a Democratic federal administration)
California (when there is a Republican / Trumpion federal administration)
Star Trek, is a metaphor for 'starship' earth, has George Takei ones said.
Great job and excellent work on putting star trek online clips into ur video
I would join the maquis
OG SHINE sk NVL NORTE 530 and I as a loyal officer under God Sisko would take you out...in the name of peace!
OG SHINE sk NVL NORTE 530 me to
Hail the Maquis!
Yup
The Maquis were wiped out when the Cardassians allied with the Dominion
Sorry to break the news to you
😐
Same. Hell if I was from the future I would travel back in time and give the Maquis future tech to wipe the floor with Cardassia
2:02 In the expanded universe the reasoning was that the UFP settled disagreements peacefully over who would be able to claim or colonize the finite M-class planets which so many species rely on.
Starfleet, in turn, would be the collective exploration service which discovered and claimed stakes on new worlds to settle.
"Capin' I did my cultural diversity classes like all the other folks at the academy but all the classes in the universe didn't prepare me for sharin' a turbolift with a lampshade and a spider the size of a pony"- Ethan Kyzak explains why the Federation ideal of diversity can get really disturbing.
Where's the map from, and how was it devised?
As far as I am aware the maps that float around are a conglomeration of snippets pulled from multiple episodes. It's an educated best guess.
i think that without plot armor the federation will fall after 200-500 years
Realistically, the Klingons and Romulans are the ones with plot armour. Think of North and South Korea! Which of these is more likely in a hundred years' time to have a presence in space? Totalitarian, repressive societies don't have much of a future as attested by real world history.
Maria Dobrinescu sounds like federation propaganda. We dont know what goes on with other races with im their borders
While the Romulans clearly have the infrastructure to maintain their Empire, scientifically, economically, politically, and so forth,... the Klingons are another story. Their entire species is basically built on a gimmick, and so many writers are content to just shrug off any questions of how they maintain themselves in the necessary ways. We so often see the Empire nearly tearing itself apart in a power struggle over strong families, even those who are clearly traitors and grasping for power at the behest of a foreign power. A Klingon scientist is almost a laughable idea, and Klingons clearly have little to no concept of economics (reference "The House of Quark"(DS9)), and politically the Klingon Empire is in almost constant internal turmoil.
there are many species in Star Trek built entirely on gimmicks, and should not (in any semblance of reality) actually survive
The Federation doesn’t exist by the 31st century (according to Daniels in ENT), so you have a ponit there.
When did he say that?
The difference between pre federation and federation times seems to be star fleet coming in and taking over your jobs and forcing you to have a peace treaty with a local species. It’s basically the difference between USA being a collection of countries, each with its own military/currency, occasionally working together (the original version) and the current version of a collection of states sending representatives to meetings to decide what the rules are for one country with one military/currency.
It’s a pity one can’t join the Q Continuum...
Unless you are Riker, but he turned down the offer eventually...
You can but you have to meet there requirements
Klingons (strong protectors and relatively easy to understand/keep happy) or the Ferengi.
I'd establish relations with the Ferengi. Economic power=Military power=Political Power.
It isn't quite that straightforward, but economic power does give the basis for military power. It doesn't always transfer over efficiently though, a lot of factors are involved in said efficiency.
Also, Ferengi are far more likely to exploit you than help you develop.
Federation will actively aid you if you give them ideological buttsex.
Klingons would be the best to establish ties with _if_ you are strong enough that outright conquest isn't promising to them.
Romulans tend to be cold towards everyone, so a lost cause there whatever one might hope to gain.
Cardassians are similar to Klingons, except will push you around more if they can. On the flip side, they don't have nearly the military power as the Klingons, so being strong enough to dissuade invasion is easier, though not "easy".
With enough military power, I would go with Klingons, or if there were enough systems in place to avoid exploitation, dealing with the Ferengi wouln't be a bad idea as mentioned. But the key would be to have a strong legal and economic heritage to rival theirs.
But the Ferengi abhor direct military power, and can't stand a fair fight. Their political power is all about their economic power. All roads lead to Latinum with the Ferengi.
I'd join in a heartbeat. I heard the Federation ships have carpet throughout. Also I assume heated tile floors as well for when he's gotta make a Captain's Log.
Why were the Trill allowed i to the federation when a caste system is effectively hardwired into their biology?
Trill is not a cast based society.
Anyone can become a candidate to be a host for a symbiote.
They then go through a series of tests to see if they are suitable to be a host.
In a caste based system only certain people would be allowed to try to become a host. Which would leave the rest with no hope of being a host.
A lot of Trill are genetically incapable of being joined, making them a caste that receives explicitly worse treatment. And in fact Trill society lies about how few are capable of being joined and fraudulently puts many compatible hosts in the "unjoinable" caste, giving the whole system a clear cultural component.
That is like saying that the British SAS is a caste based organisation because only a very small number are able to successfully get through the training.
It is not a caste based system because anyone can try to join but if due to lack of fitness or mental discipline they are unable to get through the training then they fail.
That is not a caste based system.
Did you even read the last thing I posted? There's a whole episode about how the alleged meritocracy of Trill society is a farce.
Yeah. But is that not the point. That is was all a farce. I do not remember the episode in detail. But as I remember it UFP was not aware of this injustices. It is bit like how Greece where breaking the rules for being a member of the Euro. They work very hard and making it seem like the fulfilled all the requirements as they wanted the benefits that goes with being a part of the Euro. Once the extent of the cheating was apparent with there collapse of there economy then hard to fix the situation. Throwing them out would create huge problems. But also keeping them in. I would think that the Trill situation would be similar. Where the UFP would likely work moving there society towards a more egalitarian society without expelling them.
5:12 Bajor never ended up a UFP member. Ira Behr even says in the documentary that he's very proud it didn't happen.
Why is it called the united federtaion of planets when andoria is a moon
Where did you find this map? I've seen a whole bunch, this one has them being... surprisingly small? And divided.
The Andorians, as presented in "Enterprise". I think they know how to do business. ;>)
pantslizard true that, a better version of Klingons in a way, reasonable too, although I feel they hang on to grudges far too much, understandable given their experiences with the Vulcans but detrimental in the long run, especially with Klingons and Romulans on the look out for opportunities to strike you while you’re distracted...
The Andorians part of the Federation, though. They were one of the original members, along with Earth, Vulkan, and Tellar Prime.
@@CountArtha Never did get to see how the Tellarites actually contribute to the Feds. Hypothetically speaking, in Archer's time, the Andorians contributed the bulk of military resources, the Vulcans were the scientists, and humans were the middlemen and diplomats. What do the Tellarites contribute? Lawyers?
@@dragonknightleader1 Tellarites seem to be engineers
a "species" cannot join the federation but a faction can
there migth be many individual members of a species and when some decide that they want to join the federation that does not mean the rest of them will join it aswell
The United Federation of Planets < The United Federation of Pancakes
Gallen Dugall yum
mmmmmmm pancakes *droll*
UFOP
The pancake federation is evil. They reign in terror with their Waffel-SS
@@T0ghar
They even invaded Poland with their Panzercackewagens
"Where were they while Bajor was under Cardassian Occupation" isn't quite fair. Using the Memory Alpha dates, the Occupation lasted from 2319-2369. But the Federation wasn't exactly sitting on its hands. An inconclusive war was fought between the Federation and the Cardassian Union from 2347-2366. It is probably fair to say that Bajor was not completely irrelevant to either side in that war. Furthermore there are reasons to believe that even after the war, the UFP helped Bajor in various clandestine ways...
*☼ a fine entry* . good relations w/a hostile border enemy is oft better than alliance w/a gr8 power that will never really step in if it is costly, inconvenient and you dont offer enough. Taiwan & HK come to mind. among others.
There is no official definitive map of the Star Trek universe. I have seen maps in which both the Romulans and Klingons have less territory, and some where the Cardassians have a larger area.
For the greater good, I, Gue'vesa, serve the tau.
*Commander Farsight has entered the chat*
Yeah, well worth the wait Rik. Top job. Im away to have a think about who i would sign up with. Probably the tribbles.... Tribbles rock 👍🏻
"Why NOT to Join the Federation"
I've played enough Stellaris to know how cucked Federations are, it's basically the galactic version of the UN
Yeah,... if you want to win in stellaris,... federation's suck, avoid them unless you are getting your butt beat
I’ll go for Terran Empire from the Pocket TNG novel “Dark Mirror” that was published before DS9’s episode “Crossover”. In it, the Empire holds all of Saggitarius Arm within its grasp and has defeated both the Romulans and the Klingons.
Since all star trek factions are so shitty i would probably join the borg
One does not simply "join" the Borg. They assimilate you, but only if they deem your technology and/or your genetics to be beneficial to them. Otherwise, they just wipe you out. And if they do decide to assimilate you, "you" no longer exist, you're just a dumb drone; there is no place or future there for "you".
@QUWYKXZ Unless you're really hot, like Jeri Ryan, or insanely ambitious, like Alice Krieg.
@CasualNotice Lol; you're not wrong... :D
QUWYKXZ a singular “you” may no longer exist, but everything you could ever hope to achieve or contribute to the world will continue on in their collective consciousness in its most essential form. And if you ever had any great ideas or plans, they will be continuing your research for you, perhaps even millions of years from now, working on and completing your goals, your plans and projects... now that seems like a legacy of knowledge in action
My take on things anyway...
You could argue that the Hansens joined the Borg through their stupidity and dragged their poor little girl along too.
I like how the video on why not to join is longer then the video on why to to join