Just think of all the times McCoy tried to cajole Spock into acting more "human," and "emotional." He probably never realised how close he was to getting his head stomped into paste.
I loved how on enterprise they went into the Vulcan history, especially the interaction between admiral Forrest and ambassador Soval, then sirrac and archer.
It really is such a shame Adm. Forrest died mere seconds after finally coming to understand his Vulcan allies. Had that bomb not been planted, I think the future of the galaxy would look very different, though possibly not for the better.
Would love a show about warlike Vulcans...The time of Sudoc, Warlords in charge of cities and fledgling colonies on other worlds...like Star Trek meets Game Of Thrones.
😆 "HEARKEN TO MY CALL, BARE BREASTED NYMPHS OF MY TEMPLE! Bring forth my Plomeek Soup... for I hunger! Whilst I wait, I shall observe, with great delight, as my "War Saleks" devour my captured opponents alive, and know that the last image that shall burn hot within their dying eyes shall be... ME! Standing, most statuesquely, and indominately, high above them! My WANG... hanging thusly in the breeze! Hahaha!"
yea n their already menacing phyisucal atributes seem amplified by intense emotion they could probbly crush ur scull with 1 pinch with that kinda promal power😂
Sure would be interesting, reckon such a universe exists, abs the Vulcan star empire, mentioned in a STO mission butterfly, via if the iconions never existed in the timeline!
Btw I have a video on my channel called the Vulcan star empire, which has a mentioning of this idea and universe, from the STO mission butterfly from the iconion war arc
If you read the novel Spocks World that delves into Vulcan Origins and History you will realize that Surak who taught the lessons of logic and emotional suppression is the first of his people to reach for the decaff, seriously the Vulcans were tribal, brutal, and 2 steps shy of self destructive....they tried to nuke each other into annihilation before Surak and his teaching taught them a different path...logic, reason, peace through mastery over emotion.
@@johnmanno2052 There are ways we can achieve something you may find startlingly similar through the Greek philosophy of Stoicism. Read Marcus Aurelius’ “Meditations”. Vulcans are basically just stoic space elves (and I freaking love it)!
@@Just_Call_Me_Tim I've not only read Marcus Aurelius, but I've also read Epictetus and Seneca, so I'm very familiar with Stoicism. Please forgive me for saying this, but given the undeniably martial nature of Stoicism, I would say that although it does share certain features with the kind of fictional culture and philosophy of Vulcan as it was originally conceived, the inherent and absolute pacifism of said culture/philosophical system makes it too different from Stoicism to say that they're anything other than tangentially related. None of the Stoics advocated vegetarianism, for example, which was a prime component of Vulcan culture in the original series.
I think STO had a storyline - back during the Iconian Arc - where they explored the use of the Annorax. One started with "The Vulcans never embraced logic" and stuff just went downhill from there.
Admiral Forrest " Ambassador are Vulcans afraid of humans ? Why? " Ambassador Soval " because there's one species you remind us of " Admiral Forrest " Vucans "
I actually wonder if Soval was high ranked enough to know something else he was referring to and not saying - that “you remind us of us before we embraced Logic” = “you remind us of the Romulans”
It's always kind of amazed me how so many of the other big players in the galaxy aren't all that much older than mankind, and they almost universally had cultural histories so bloodthirsty and violent that they would have considered Attila the Hun and Vlad Dracul to be models of restraint, but somehow it's only humanity whose history of warfare kept us from the stars for thousands of years.
I’m not sure that tracks - it took Vulcans centuries to develop warp 2 after getting to warp 1, while humanity did so comparatively quickly. If Vulcan had kept-up the pace they’d have been millennia ahead of Earth, but as it was in _Enterprise_ they were only about 50-100 years ahead in human terms. If anything I’d say humanity was the one that war _didn’t_ hold back, as although the progress was started later than some of these other cultures, progression was quicker after beginning. After all, it took the Vulcans 500 years after their nuclear war to invent warp drive, versus… 10 years for humanity.
@@kaitlyn__L That's a fair point, though it's kind of what I'm getting at. The Vulcans only really started to stagnate technologically when they forced themselves to calm down. Prior to that, around the time humanity considered steel to be the new hotness, the Vulcans' squabbling, warlord-led city-states had built a collection of offworld colonies and were bombing each other from orbit on the regular.
@@tba113 so wars accelerated Vulcan and Human technological development, right? (And indeed, given the depiction of the 32nd century, one could suggest humanity had plateaued a couple of centuries after attaining peace, too.)
@@kaitlyn__L In terms of IRL history, a complete answer to that is far more of a philosophical, historical, and economic discussion than TH-cam comments are suited for, but the short version of my view basically comes to the Ferengi having it right in their 34th and 35th Rules of Acquisition: "War is good for business" and "Peace is good for business", respectively. Conflict is a strong motivator to solve problems and can develop handy things for peacetime use, but can also redirect resources away from projects that would have developed those new technologies anyway and with less need to adapt them from versions designed to break things. With respect to Trek, my overall point is that Humanity is almost uniquely described as only having blossomed once we gave up things like war, with many going so far as to say Humanity only came into its own _because_ we moved beyond that supposedly disreputable past, while most other powers' biggest leaps were practically from one bloodbath to another.
@@tba113 fair enough. I am inclined to agree with you IRL, though it was my impression in Trek that warp drive was quoted as the key factor rather than peace - it just so happened to also usher-in peace on Earth. Cooperation is frequently said to be the Federation’s X-factor, but Trek also showed that cooperation was leveraged harder in war (such as the Dominion War, or implied in the Sphere Builder War and the Temporal Wars). I think this is largely due to narrative considerations rather than being intended as a philosophical meditation, though it’s worth noting that arguably the only period of faster development in peacetime was under Roddenberry as part of the backstory for TNG, suggesting ideological concerns may be at play to greater or lesser degrees among the more recent writers. IRL I do believe war frequently sucks away many resources which could be used on improvements, yet also provides a strong impetus for R&D. Peacetime R&D can be just as if not more impressive, but that’s at the whims of groups/companies/states deliberately pushing those conditions, and is therefore also sadly more vulnerable to complacency.
Storn was peeved that he was called "Moe", one of the 3 Stooges due to his hairstyle. He was one of the 3 Vulcans who visited Pa.in 1957 in the episode 'Carbon Creek'. T'Mir, a 2nd foremother of T'Pol, became the captain when their ship crashed. Mestral stayed behind and later had his hairstyle compared to a Beatle's mop-top.
On a planet as hot as Vulcan, it paid to have short hair as it was easier to wash-using less water-and easier to comb-being more practical. Not sure why they all had to have the same style, but apparently the Syrannites-like Syrann and T'Paul-read Surak's writings-the Kir'Shara-and realised they'd been wrong about a lot of things. T'Pol started to grow her hair longer too.
12:47 - “the little M Class orb on their doorstep” - Have you done, or could you do, a video on the distances between the worlds/star systems of the Star Trek universe? Such as Earth to Vulcan, Vulcan to Andoria, Earth to Q’onos, and such. Please and Thank you.
Vulcan orbits the Star we know as 40 Eridani A, which is just 16.39 light-years away. Andoria Is a moon orbiting the planet Andor and has stated* to be either the 7th planet orbiting the star Procyon (Alpha Canis Minoris) just 11.46 light-years away. Or the eighth planet of the orange dwarf Epsilon Indi which is 11.86 light-years away. (depending if Andoria is in the Alpha or Beta Quadrant, still up for debate) Tellar Prime is* located in the 61 Cygni Starsystem which is 11.40 light-years away, and is the 5th planet orbiting either 61 Cygni A or 61 Cygni B * Locations provided by Beta canon. Vulcans locations was originally stated by Roddenberry in 1991, Then its distance from Earth confirmed in ENT: Home and its location as 40 Eridani A confirmed in DIS: Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad
I'm intrigued by your theory but I've got the impression the reason Vulcans suppressed and controlled their emotions is because of their psionic abilities. On Vulcan war is not merely a matter of politics but is actually contagious. Once the psychic energies are released a reoccurring cycle of attack. and retaliation begins fed by the planet's collective rage (not unlike the Kreel in Forbidden Planet) the only way to break the telepathic chain is through nuclear bombing or mediation that stills the rage
@@toomanyaccounts Yes, I think for all they look like humans with ears, Vulcans have a psychology that is very alien. Is like their Id is really close to the surface and influence their Superego not merely in an unconscious way given the right conditions. Their psionic abilities wouldn't have helped at all, by creating a feed loop of contagious strong emotions and as the previous poster mentions creating a type of psionic induced mass hysteria.
Thank you for this video..... I believe, The Vulcans, and their Romulan cousins, intrigue me more than any other races in Star Trek !!!! You always seem to have something new and fresh, to add to their history... 🖖
Wow. I know Enterprise talks a little about Vulcan history specifically, and of course there are many vague mentions of Vulcan's warlike past, but I enjoyed learning all these specifics! Thank you for the video! Stay well out there everybody, and God be with you, friends. ✝️ :)
During first contact, they land... a little roughly. Stagger out of their ship, drunk as shit, and instead of saying, "Live long and prosper." they say, "HEY! Where the hell ARE WE?" Humans would've loved 'em instantly. 😏
A shame that Diane Duane's work is considered apocrypha, despite having been borrowed from a lot by STO. She did what I think was an excellent history of early Vulcan, as well as the Romulans.
Read “Spock’s World”. I don’t remember if she is the author, but that book creates an insightful, beautiful collage of Vulcan history through snapshot stories of different parts of Vulcan’s history woven into a story set in the time Spock served on the TOS Enterprise.
@@leeshwan903 Yep, she did Spock's World, also The Romulan Way and My Enemy, My Ally. And also The Wounded Sky, which isn't Vulcan/Romulan related, but does introduce a character and some other things that are referenced in Spock's World. My favroite of the Trek novel authors, and it both amuses and slightly annoys me (to to the apparently non-crediting of her) that I see elements (pun unintended...if you read the books you know what I mean. :-) ) seen only in her work show up in STO.
@@VulpisFoxfire Bits of her work were revived by authors like Josepha Sherman and Susan Schwartz, albeit with new twists and changes, as I recall (for instance, see the 'Vulcan's Soul' trilogy)
Dorothy Fontana was one of the earliest writers to work with Roddenberry and Nimoy to flesh out and give life to Vulcans. If you like Dian Duane’s work, check out “Vulcan’s Glory” by D.C. Fontana for a bit of a look into some of the more “out of the public eye” of Vulcan behavior and habits. It focuses mostly on Cmdr Spock and the 5 or 6 other Vulcans assigned to the Enterprise.
I always appreciated that when we meet Surak in Enterprise, he is very respectful of humanity. Generally the more arrogant a Vulcan is, the more they struggle with controlling their emotions.
How many species actually evolved on their home planet? Between species like the Preservers and ancient colonization it starts to feel rare. Maybe there's a ancient Vulcan empire waiting out there.
OOOOOOH NOW THAT'S A STORY IDEA FOR NEW TREK SHOWS! ships o missing in a certain sector and the crew comes across a FORTRESS of a planet with a bunch of people who look very Vulkan/Romulan but are about as paranoid as Stalin on Ketamine
4:43 the idea of neutron bombs is to leave infrastructure and materials intact, but the neutron bombardment would kill anything alive within the area. So the warlord wouldn't "level" a city with neutron bombs - the warlord would just kill everyone in it, though unsure of extent of damage in area bomb is dropped/detonated. Curious if that wording is from the source material, or of the choosing of the narrator.
neutron bombs do cause some damage. it does allow one to seize a city mostly intact compared to a regular nuclear bomb. the idea may have been to kill all those with knowledge to make space travel a reality and hence stop anyone else doing it. the problem is when you aware it can be done it is just a matter of figuring out how to achieve it. it may take decades but it would just be a matter of time.
@@toomanyaccounts You also have the problem of ideas being very hard to kill. It might only take one or two rocket scientists going on vacation to preserve much of the technical know-how and speed up the reclamation of the Vulcan space race.
@@irregularassassin6380 there was an episode of the 90s Outer Limits in which a guy figures out how to make a cold fusion bomb and at the end the gov't was still not aware of how the guy figured it out. then the end shows a student going all mad during an exam and it shows the exam question which was "demonstrate why cold fusion is impossible" so say something cannot be done and someone will figure out how it can be done.
Diane Duane's Vulcan and Romulan novels from the 80s (Spock's World and The Romulan Way among them) did alot to flesh out the story of the early Vulcans and the Romulan exodus. I can tell that this video referenced some of that material, particularly regarding S'Task and his philosophical falling-out with Surak. BTW, I noticed that one of the warlords' names sounds like "Jarok." A distant ancestor of Alidar Jarok from TNG "The Defector," perhaps? 🖖😎👍
12:46 also in another universe( mentioned in STO online butterfly mission) most of the galaxy conquered by the Vulcan star empire with the dominion the last ti fall to the Vulcan barbarians
How about Trip calling Malcolm's new alarm " a bag of sehlats"? I wonder how a bunch of bear-cats would sound. A cross between Winnie the Pooh and Tigger's girlfriend should they have cubs of kits? I wonder if that's even possible!
Vulcan was apparently once a lush and thriving biosphere. Turned into a scorching desert after centuries of war with atomic, psionic, and futuristic weapons. The Federation homeworld apparently experienced centuries of similarly destructive warfare, the Eugenics Wars, WW3, the Post-Apocalypic Horrors, etc. But Earth (circa 24th century) is shown to be a lush California paradise world. Humans restored and rebuilt it with centuries of work and help from the Vulcans. Since the Vulcans are apparently expert terraformers with advanced biological engineering methods - which they developed while repairing their own homeworld. The Vulcans seem focussed, disciplined, productive. They've been a spacefaring species many centuries before humans. They've colonized other worlds (including Romulus, lol), they have access to plenty of resources and advanced technologies. They can survive in a sterile poisoned desert but they evidently prefer more comfortable climates whenever given a choice. So why is the Vulcan homeworld still a barren wasteland?
The 'Vulcan's Soul' trilogy, while officially non-canon are nonetheless absolutely brilliant in my opinion. For me they form the official history of The Sundering. 'Vulcan's Forge' and 'Vulcan's Heart' are damn good too--some of the best 'Spock books' (and therefore Vulcan history books) that have been written, *much* better than the turgid and over-cooked 'Phoenix' series of twenty-five years earlier that covered _slightly_ similar ground.
I feel like the Vulcans should have a stock response to the "you're to stuck up/hawty/overly logical" something like "yes and it is to your benefit. For if our race carried about as it did in its younger years, there is no telling what would have become of yours."
The naturally rational and almost emotionless species in StarTreek are the Humans, the Vulcans need intense training to develop something like human clarity and have to suppress their own nature almost totally to do so.
Humans, rational yet irrational, emotional yet emotionless, kind yet cruel, merciful yet merciless, peaceful yet desiring of war, the greatest riddle of the galaxy
Early Vulcans were basically Humans of all their existence. But Vulcans made a choice, not genetic modification, to change themselves for the sake of longevity.
@@chrisinnes2128 There are fan theories that because Vulcans chose to suppress their emotions rather than dealing with them naturally, the emotions became stronger and stronger over generations. Since the ancestors of Romulans didn't choose that method of control they would not have the same result.
thats why they are afraid of humanity, they saw how fast things progressed and tried to hold it back out of fear, but after Archer's speach after the plasma explosion that killed the colony of Paraagan II and the planet, thats was the starting moment for when Vulcan actually starting to realise slowly that humanity was actually pretty mature.
@@jamescooper7878 Other episodes of the series Enterprise also had the Vulcans remarking on how humanity managed to avoid the more severe regressions that plagued the ancient vulcans so they wondered how it could be that humans were able to at least manage their emotions better than the vulcans did and without the strict disciplines they adopted. We weren't just similar to them but we did not have to revert to the strict measures that saved their society and they wanted to know how that could be. I wouldn't say they feared us but just did not understand how humanity could manage without the strict dedication to logic they used and they did not believe we could manage without the same methods they used.
Maybe that's a reason the Vulcans who left looked for a world that was like their previous planet was like and settled there. Over years. They changed due to the planet's cooler climate and lighter gravity and allowed themselves to experience emotion. The ones who later did on Vulcan-like Cpt. Tanik, Tolaris, and Kov-didn't know how to mind-meld properly and infected others with Pa'nar Syndrome. The VHC at one time decided to outlaw mind-melds and misunderstood Surak's teaching-which the Kir'shara taught. T'Pau was influenced by Syran-a student of Surak's teachings and knew how to cure her illness. I thought it was strange she didn't know how to pick up on T'Pol's remaining trellium addictions and cure those symptoms too.
@@the11382 they never said. Perhaps they didn’t have the technology then and by the time they did it had healed to the point they didn’t have to and it served as a reminder of why they control their emotions so stringently. Just a thought. They talked about it in the series under the raptors wings (I think that was the title). One of the Enterprise book series. I know they talked about the time period in question and the journey by the Romulans. They were attacked, exposed to radiation and shaped by the migration. They weren’t even sure if Vulcan survived the period. It took generations of travel of course. At first I wasn’t crazy about the story but I ended up enjoying it. Overall a good read.
Where did the Montanans from ST: The Next Generation “Who Watches the Watchers?” come from? Did the proto-Vulcans from Shakari go to many places instead of just Vulcan?
There is a novel called the lost years by J.M Dillard, which specifically refers to mind masters, or mind lords with incredibly powerful psionic abilities. One was named zakal the terrible with the ability to incinerate his enemies at will with his mind
Diane Duane's excellent ST novel "Spock's World" ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spock%27s_World ) has IMO a good description of pre-reformation Vulcan including how the Romans came about.
Would’ve been interesting if First Contact in the Mirror Universe was btwn paranoid/xenophobic humans & paranoid/warlike Vulcans. (But alas, it was just btwn paranoid humans & seemingly-unchanged Vulcans.)
To me, all the evidence from ST canon (prior to 2009, of course) points to Vulcans being genetically engineered, possibly as the result of a eugenics era on Vulcan. But, unlike on Earth, where the Augments were defeated and driven off, on Vulcan the non-augmented were driven off to become the Romulans (and perhaps also the Debrune and the Mintakans). This would explain why the Romulans left Vulcan, and also why they appear to be just another ordinary humanoid species, while the Vulcans have many super-humanoid characteristics. It would also explain why the Vulcans found it necessary to adopt a discipline of logic, to help them control the negative side-effects of genetic engineering they have in common with Earth Augments.
Head canon: Surak was Neurodivergent. Hear me out ND people process things differently, they work by their own mechanism. It makes sense to me that someone who has trouble adapting to social norms would see the constant warfare and fail to see any sense in it
As someone with ASC, that checks out. Modern Vulcans are pretty good analogues for Autism. Ritualised behaviours, hyperspecialisation in areas of interest, introverted social norms and so on.
Awhile back, by awhile I mean a few weeks ago, I came up with a theory on why there is such a genetic difference between the vulcans and romulans. It all stems back to how romulans got their ridges, and it goes back to the second episode of star trek picard season 2, where we get to see all those skulls. More specifically, the skull of Sarek, which apparently had light brow ridges. Through that, it established that the romulan ridges might have originally been a vulcan trait, which likely got exacerbated through the genetic bottleneck the romulans went through during their diaspora. It then got me thinking, wait, why are they so different though? Like, why are they considered separate species? I theorize that the main reason why that is the case is because of the nuclear warfare that occurred on Vulcan, which likely irradiated the vulcan people causing many genetic mutations. The romulans being in space and therefore being exposed to less fallout overall, getting less mutations. Yes, I am positing that the vulcans are not the original vulcans, but are their successors while the romulans are the true original vulcans despite being a little bit inbred.
Romulans also underwent genetic enginnering. it is why most of them do not have telepathic abilities and are considered a different species. add in the different environment of Romulus over a thousand years having an effect through the generations. not all romulans have the ridges nor all romulans green tinged you have some black romulans and black vulcans. even a few red headed vulcans where most vulcans and romulans have black hair until they age
The only thing is, while spending decades in space,exposed to cosmic radiation of all sorts , they would be more likely to mutate. Sorry, would have been a good theory if not for that.
It seems contradict a bit of what you've said here, but I remember reading a theory that the Vulcans actually had their own eugenics war. That the Romulans are actually descended from the non augments who were chased off the planet, and that the remaining Vulcans didn't adopt an anti-eugenics stance until Surak's teachings caught on. This is why the Vulcans are capable of psychic abilities, and physical feats that we never see in the Romulans.
It's strange to me that Mirror Vulcans have much the same history. If it weren't for Zephrame Cochrines Magic Shotgun the difference between universes would be fairly negligible.
I wonder how much of their previous religion and mythology they preserved even under their new system for historical purposes. Surely they could see the logic in preserving their previous beliefs and views even if they no longer follow them deeply.
I don't know if I agree with this analysis. it's unlikely that an unenlightened Vulcan society would have set out exploring other solar systems let alone ventured to earth in the first place . An important question that's not asked here is Why didn't those who walked beneath the raptor's wings conquer earth when they set out looking to create their empire? they had the technological might to do so but Romulus is as far away from earth as can be and plenty far from Vulcan or Andoria and Kronos as well. Early Vulcans were paranoid, arrogant and little more then blood thirsty savages which explain the evolution of Romulan society but they were not really conquerors because having never been conquered themselves, the concept might have been a little foreign to them. What Vulcans did understand and Romulan society shows is the need for autonomy when two Vulcan Factions clashed against each other, one just up and left the whole planet to create a society they could control for themselves.
There is fluff that suggests that ancient Vulcan's nuclear wars killed off what little green was left on Vulcan. Also the term 'Awakening' was also to describe Vulcan waking from a nightmare or madness.
The transition from dominant unenlightened to dominant enlightened seems to abrupt. I understand that many of the less enlightened left Vulcan, but why would the remaining give up their land, planet, to a group unlikely to fight them? It would be expected that in order to unify a planet under one belief, the enlightened Vulcans at one point had to dominate over the others through war/violence. Unless the other side had an epiphany. Possible, but less probable.
I like to think that the war like ancient Vulcans weren’t much more advanced than modern humans. They apparently had sleeper ships that’s how the ancient Romulans left Vulcan?? But they still had projectile weapons and less advanced stuff.
you know some people say surak’s teachings weren’t meant to suppressed emotions, but to incorporate them into Vulcans’ lives.. cause what logic is there in suppressing emotions?
In ancient times and in modern times, the wife of a Vulcan Ambassador is called a Lady. Amanda, though a human and Spock's mother, was called a Lady as well. I don't know if T'Pol's mother T'Les was called one or not.
Yeah, people tend to forget that Vulcans suppress emotions for very good reasons.
America rules! Fuck aliens, American planet would win
Cthia.
Just think of all the times McCoy tried to cajole Spock into acting more "human," and "emotional." He probably never realised how close he was to getting his head stomped into paste.
They feel them too deeply (2 years late don't care)
Enterprise did so much to help flesh this out. I miss that series.
I really came to enjoy it.
It was my favorite thing about Enterprise. Unfortunately, they were far too invested in making the Xindi happen for it to save the show.
I loved the Surak arc. And anytime the Andorians were on screen :)
I loved how on enterprise they went into the Vulcan history, especially the interaction between admiral Forrest and ambassador Soval, then sirrac and archer.
Surok, I believe you meant.
It really is such a shame Adm. Forrest died mere seconds after finally coming to understand his Vulcan allies. Had that bomb not been planted, I think the future of the galaxy would look very different, though possibly not for the better.
@@virginiaconnor8350 “Surak” with an “a”.
Would love a show about warlike Vulcans...The time of Sudoc, Warlords in charge of cities and fledgling colonies on other worlds...like Star Trek meets Game Of Thrones.
yep
😆 "HEARKEN TO MY CALL, BARE BREASTED NYMPHS OF MY TEMPLE! Bring forth my Plomeek Soup... for I hunger!
Whilst I wait, I shall observe, with great delight, as my "War Saleks" devour my captured opponents alive, and know that the last image that shall burn hot within their dying eyes shall be... ME!
Standing, most statuesquely, and indominately, high above them! My WANG... hanging thusly in the breeze! Hahaha!"
yea n their already menacing phyisucal atributes seem amplified by intense emotion they could probbly crush ur scull with 1 pinch with that kinda promal power😂
That's just dune
It'll be called Stat Trek: Vulcan
I would love to see an episode of Trek where they cross into a universe in which Vulcans never accepted logic and instead conquered Earth.
that would be indeed quite fascinating to discover i do like delving into alternate reality probabilities
Not sure if you're joking or not. You mean the Romulans and the failed Earth/Romulan war?
Sure would be interesting, reckon such a universe exists, abs the Vulcan star empire, mentioned in a STO mission butterfly, via if the iconions never existed in the timeline!
Btw I have a video on my channel called the Vulcan star empire, which has a mentioning of this idea and universe, from the STO mission butterfly from the iconion war arc
@@radionoakmont7756 also aka different universes in the ST multiverse
If you read the novel Spocks World that delves into Vulcan Origins and History you will realize that Surak who taught the lessons of logic and emotional suppression is the first of his people to reach for the decaff, seriously the Vulcans were tribal, brutal, and 2 steps shy of self destructive....they tried to nuke each other into annihilation before Surak and his teaching taught them a different path...logic, reason, peace through mastery over emotion.
Would that we could be so wise
I’m working on that one now! Have you read Vulcan’s Glory? Excellent look into an unmentioned part of Vulcan life!
@@johnmanno2052 There are ways we can achieve something you may find startlingly similar through the Greek philosophy of Stoicism. Read Marcus Aurelius’ “Meditations”. Vulcans are basically just stoic space elves (and I freaking love it)!
@@Just_Call_Me_Tim I've not only read Marcus Aurelius, but I've also read Epictetus and Seneca, so I'm very familiar with Stoicism.
Please forgive me for saying this, but given the undeniably martial nature of Stoicism, I would say that although it does share certain features with the kind of fictional culture and philosophy of Vulcan as it was originally conceived, the inherent and absolute pacifism of said culture/philosophical system makes it too different from Stoicism to say that they're anything other than tangentially related. None of the Stoics advocated vegetarianism, for example, which was a prime component of Vulcan culture in the original series.
He wasn't teaching suppression at all.
So Vulcan is basically Star Trek: Fallout
Fallout: New Vulcan
@@jamchiroptera4258 Patrolling the Forge almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter
Nice report on vulcans, did not know they lived in city-states for such a long time.
I think STO had a storyline - back during the Iconian Arc - where they explored the use of the Annorax.
One started with "The Vulcans never embraced logic" and stuff just went downhill from there.
Dr. Seuss?
ye they were basically Romulans that took controll of all alpha and beta quadrants and were going ham with the Dominion
In the ancient days of Vulcan, they had a class of people called "Mind-Mages." projecting telepaths, they were the witch kings of their age.
Admiral Forrest " Ambassador are Vulcans afraid of humans ? Why? "
Ambassador Soval " because there's one species you remind us of "
Admiral Forrest " Vucans "
I actually wonder if Soval was high ranked enough to know something else he was referring to and not saying - that “you remind us of us before we embraced Logic” = “you remind us of the Romulans”
It's always kind of amazed me how so many of the other big players in the galaxy aren't all that much older than mankind, and they almost universally had cultural histories so bloodthirsty and violent that they would have considered Attila the Hun and Vlad Dracul to be models of restraint, but somehow it's only humanity whose history of warfare kept us from the stars for thousands of years.
I’m not sure that tracks - it took Vulcans centuries to develop warp 2 after getting to warp 1, while humanity did so comparatively quickly. If Vulcan had kept-up the pace they’d have been millennia ahead of Earth, but as it was in _Enterprise_ they were only about 50-100 years ahead in human terms. If anything I’d say humanity was the one that war _didn’t_ hold back, as although the progress was started later than some of these other cultures, progression was quicker after beginning. After all, it took the Vulcans 500 years after their nuclear war to invent warp drive, versus… 10 years for humanity.
@@kaitlyn__L That's a fair point, though it's kind of what I'm getting at. The Vulcans only really started to stagnate technologically when they forced themselves to calm down. Prior to that, around the time humanity considered steel to be the new hotness, the Vulcans' squabbling, warlord-led city-states had built a collection of offworld colonies and were bombing each other from orbit on the regular.
@@tba113 so wars accelerated Vulcan and Human technological development, right? (And indeed, given the depiction of the 32nd century, one could suggest humanity had plateaued a couple of centuries after attaining peace, too.)
@@kaitlyn__L In terms of IRL history, a complete answer to that is far more of a philosophical, historical, and economic discussion than TH-cam comments are suited for, but the short version of my view basically comes to the Ferengi having it right in their 34th and 35th Rules of Acquisition: "War is good for business" and "Peace is good for business", respectively. Conflict is a strong motivator to solve problems and can develop handy things for peacetime use, but can also redirect resources away from projects that would have developed those new technologies anyway and with less need to adapt them from versions designed to break things.
With respect to Trek, my overall point is that Humanity is almost uniquely described as only having blossomed once we gave up things like war, with many going so far as to say Humanity only came into its own _because_ we moved beyond that supposedly disreputable past, while most other powers' biggest leaps were practically from one bloodbath to another.
@@tba113 fair enough. I am inclined to agree with you IRL, though it was my impression in Trek that warp drive was quoted as the key factor rather than peace - it just so happened to also usher-in peace on Earth.
Cooperation is frequently said to be the Federation’s X-factor, but Trek also showed that cooperation was leveraged harder in war (such as the Dominion War, or implied in the Sphere Builder War and the Temporal Wars).
I think this is largely due to narrative considerations rather than being intended as a philosophical meditation, though it’s worth noting that arguably the only period of faster development in peacetime was under Roddenberry as part of the backstory for TNG, suggesting ideological concerns may be at play to greater or lesser degrees among the more recent writers.
IRL I do believe war frequently sucks away many resources which could be used on improvements, yet also provides a strong impetus for R&D. Peacetime R&D can be just as if not more impressive, but that’s at the whims of groups/companies/states deliberately pushing those conditions, and is therefore also sadly more vulnerable to complacency.
I want one time travel episode where they go to Vulcan instead of Earth just for a change.
All honor to Surak. We adopt his haircut as the official Vulcan style in his name!
Storn was peeved that he was called "Moe", one of the 3 Stooges due to his hairstyle. He was one of the 3 Vulcans who visited Pa.in 1957 in the episode 'Carbon Creek'. T'Mir, a 2nd foremother of T'Pol, became the captain when their ship crashed. Mestral stayed behind and later had his hairstyle compared to a Beatle's mop-top.
On a planet as hot as Vulcan, it paid to have short hair as it was easier to wash-using less water-and easier to comb-being more practical. Not sure why they all had to have the same style, but apparently the Syrannites-like Syrann and T'Paul-read Surak's writings-the Kir'Shara-and realised they'd been wrong about a lot of things. T'Pol started to grow her hair longer too.
Moe Howard was pretty quick to punch and slap, so it follows.
Vulcans developed a weapon which could kill with lethal thoughts, Pretty dangerous stuff.
12:47 - “the little M Class orb on their doorstep” - Have you done, or could you do, a video on the distances between the worlds/star systems of the Star Trek universe? Such as Earth to Vulcan, Vulcan to Andoria, Earth to Q’onos, and such. Please and Thank you.
Vulcan orbits the Star we know as 40 Eridani A, which is just 16.39 light-years away.
Andoria Is a moon orbiting the planet Andor and has stated* to be either the 7th planet orbiting the star Procyon (Alpha Canis Minoris) just 11.46 light-years away. Or the eighth planet of the orange dwarf Epsilon Indi which is 11.86 light-years away. (depending if Andoria is in the Alpha or Beta Quadrant, still up for debate)
Tellar Prime is* located in the 61 Cygni Starsystem which is 11.40 light-years away, and is the 5th planet orbiting either 61 Cygni A or 61 Cygni B
* Locations provided by Beta canon.
Vulcans locations was originally stated by Roddenberry in 1991, Then its distance from Earth confirmed in ENT: Home and its location as 40 Eridani A confirmed in DIS: Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad
I love how much Greek-Roman influence Gene Rodenberry poured into Star Trek.
I'm intrigued by your theory but I've got the impression the reason Vulcans suppressed and controlled their emotions is because of their psionic abilities. On Vulcan war is not merely a matter of politics but is actually contagious. Once the psychic energies are released a reoccurring cycle of attack. and retaliation begins fed by the planet's collective rage (not unlike the Kreel in Forbidden Planet) the only way to break the telepathic chain is through nuclear bombing or mediation that stills the rage
vulcans have much stronger impulses. so rage is much more homicidal and sustained for much longer then just the brief feeling for most humans.
That’s an interesting angle, for sure. 🖖🏻
@@toomanyaccounts Yes, I think for all they look like humans with ears, Vulcans have a psychology that is very alien. Is like their Id is really close to the surface and influence their Superego not merely in an unconscious way given the right conditions. Their psionic abilities wouldn't have helped at all, by creating a feed loop of contagious strong emotions and as the previous poster mentions creating a type of psionic induced mass hysteria.
Thank you for this video..... I believe, The Vulcans, and their Romulan cousins, intrigue me more than any other races in Star Trek !!!! You always seem to have something new and fresh, to add to their history... 🖖
"... our little M class orb."
Awe, I love how you phrased that! 💛
Wow. I know Enterprise talks a little about Vulcan history specifically, and of course there are many vague mentions of Vulcan's warlike past, but I enjoyed learning all these specifics! Thank you for the video!
Stay well out there everybody, and God be with you, friends. ✝️ :)
🖖🏻 Live long and prosper.
Now that's a mirror universe style scenario I want to see: The universe in which the Vulcans never embraced logic and were like the Terrans.
During first contact, they land... a little roughly. Stagger out of their ship, drunk as shit, and instead of saying, "Live long and prosper." they say, "HEY! Where the hell ARE WE?"
Humans would've loved 'em instantly. 😏
Be more like Klingon
The 2nd department of temporal investigations novel has a timeline similar to that
12:33 I think this scenario was explored in "Earth Final Conflict", if you swap Taelons with Vulcans.
A shame that Diane Duane's work is considered apocrypha, despite having been borrowed from a lot by STO. She did what I think was an excellent history of early Vulcan, as well as the Romulans.
Read “Spock’s World”. I don’t remember if she is the author, but that book creates an insightful, beautiful collage of Vulcan history through snapshot stories of different parts of Vulcan’s history woven into a story set in the time Spock served on the TOS Enterprise.
@@leeshwan903 Yep, she did Spock's World, also The Romulan Way and My Enemy, My Ally. And also The Wounded Sky, which isn't Vulcan/Romulan related, but does introduce a character and some other things that are referenced in Spock's World. My favroite of the Trek novel authors, and it both amuses and slightly annoys me (to to the apparently non-crediting of her) that I see elements (pun unintended...if you read the books you know what I mean. :-) ) seen only in her work show up in STO.
@@VulpisFoxfire including S'Task.
@@VulpisFoxfire Bits of her work were revived by authors like Josepha Sherman and Susan Schwartz, albeit with new twists and changes, as I recall (for instance, see the 'Vulcan's Soul' trilogy)
Dorothy Fontana was one of the earliest writers to work with Roddenberry and Nimoy to flesh out and give life to Vulcans. If you like Dian Duane’s work, check out “Vulcan’s Glory” by D.C. Fontana for a bit of a look into some of the more “out of the public eye” of Vulcan behavior and habits. It focuses mostly on Cmdr Spock and the 5 or 6 other Vulcans assigned to the Enterprise.
Ohhhh yes. And I'm expecting a bunch of ST:Enterprise love from this too ;) What more could I ask for :D
Great story on the Vulcans looking forward to part two
I always appreciated that when we meet Surak in Enterprise, he is very respectful of humanity. Generally the more arrogant a Vulcan is, the more they struggle with controlling their emotions.
Rule of Acquisition Number 79: "Beware the Vulcan greed for knowledge!"
How many species actually evolved on their home planet? Between species like the Preservers and ancient colonization it starts to feel rare. Maybe there's a ancient Vulcan empire waiting out there.
OOOOOOH NOW THAT'S A STORY IDEA FOR NEW TREK SHOWS! ships o missing in a certain sector and the crew comes across a FORTRESS of a planet with a bunch of people who look very Vulkan/Romulan but are about as paranoid as Stalin on Ketamine
4:43 the idea of neutron bombs is to leave infrastructure and materials intact, but the neutron bombardment would kill anything alive within the area. So the warlord wouldn't "level" a city with neutron bombs - the warlord would just kill everyone in it, though unsure of extent of damage in area bomb is dropped/detonated.
Curious if that wording is from the source material, or of the choosing of the narrator.
neutron bombs do cause some damage. it does allow one to seize a city mostly intact compared to a regular nuclear bomb.
the idea may have been to kill all those with knowledge to make space travel a reality and hence stop anyone else doing it. the problem is when you aware it can be done it is just a matter of figuring out how to achieve it. it may take decades but it would just be a matter of time.
@@toomanyaccounts You also have the problem of ideas being very hard to kill. It might only take one or two rocket scientists going on vacation to preserve much of the technical know-how and speed up the reclamation of the Vulcan space race.
@@irregularassassin6380 there was an episode of the 90s Outer Limits in which a guy figures out how to make a cold fusion bomb and at the end the gov't was still not aware of how the guy figured it out. then the end shows a student going all mad during an exam and it shows the exam question which was "demonstrate why cold fusion is impossible"
so say something cannot be done and someone will figure out how it can be done.
Diane Duane's Vulcan and Romulan novels from the 80s (Spock's World and The Romulan Way among them) did alot to flesh out the story of the early Vulcans and the Romulan exodus. I can tell that this video referenced some of that material, particularly regarding S'Task and his philosophical falling-out with Surak. BTW, I noticed that one of the warlords' names sounds like "Jarok." A distant ancestor of Alidar Jarok from TNG "The Defector," perhaps? 🖖😎👍
12:46 also in another universe( mentioned in STO online butterfly mission) most of the galaxy conquered by the Vulcan star empire with the dominion the last ti fall to the Vulcan barbarians
i have a video of this in my channel if you want to check it out!! labelled "the vulcan star empre
“The seylat was out of the bag.”
How about Trip calling Malcolm's new alarm " a bag of sehlats"? I wonder how a bunch of bear-cats would sound. A cross between Winnie the Pooh and Tigger's girlfriend should they have cubs of kits? I wonder if that's even possible!
This is brilliant. Great work Rick.
Vulcan was apparently once a lush and thriving biosphere. Turned into a scorching desert after centuries of war with atomic, psionic, and futuristic weapons.
The Federation homeworld apparently experienced centuries of similarly destructive warfare, the Eugenics Wars, WW3, the Post-Apocalypic Horrors, etc.
But Earth (circa 24th century) is shown to be a lush California paradise world. Humans restored and rebuilt it with centuries of work and help from the Vulcans. Since the Vulcans are apparently expert terraformers with advanced biological engineering methods - which they developed while repairing their own homeworld.
The Vulcans seem focussed, disciplined, productive. They've been a spacefaring species many centuries before humans. They've colonized other worlds (including Romulus, lol), they have access to plenty of resources and advanced technologies. They can survive in a sterile poisoned desert but they evidently prefer more comfortable climates whenever given a choice.
So why is the Vulcan homeworld still a barren wasteland?
They might keep it as a reminder of what happens if they were to stray from logic and return to their past violence
@@googleuser7454a constant reminder of their baser "instincts"
The 'Vulcan's Soul' trilogy, while officially non-canon are nonetheless absolutely brilliant in my opinion. For me they form the official history of The Sundering. 'Vulcan's Forge' and 'Vulcan's Heart' are damn good too--some of the best 'Spock books' (and therefore Vulcan history books) that have been written, *much* better than the turgid and over-cooked 'Phoenix' series of twenty-five years earlier that covered _slightly_ similar ground.
I feel like the Vulcans should have a stock response to the "you're to stuck up/hawty/overly logical" something like "yes and it is to your benefit. For if our race carried about as it did in its younger years, there is no telling what would have become of yours."
Why did you take so long to mention this origin? It's almost time for my Pon Farr. Lol
I didn't want to watch the vid because the title was PERFECT
This video I have to say was outstanding. The best thing trek so far in 2022.
The naturally rational and almost emotionless species in StarTreek are the Humans, the Vulcans need intense training to develop something like human clarity and have to suppress their own nature almost totally to do so.
Humans, rational yet irrational, emotional yet emotionless, kind yet cruel, merciful yet merciless, peaceful yet desiring of war, the greatest riddle of the galaxy
Wonderful piece!
Early Vulcans were basically Humans of all their existence. But Vulcans made a choice, not genetic modification, to change themselves for the sake of longevity.
Love this
Seems like the vulcans have more trouble controlling their emotions than us humans do.
That's cannon
Vulcan emotions are insanely strong. It takes a lifetime of discipline to master them.
Yet romulans don't really seam to have the same trouble
@@chrisinnes2128 There are fan theories that because Vulcans chose to suppress their emotions rather than dealing with them naturally, the emotions became stronger and stronger over generations. Since the ancestors of Romulans didn't choose that method of control they would not have the same result.
That is why they have learn to suppress them using many meditation techniques.
Great video!!
Keep in mind that the Vulcans sees humans as being similar to their pre-logic ancestors.
thats why they are afraid of humanity, they saw how fast things progressed and tried to hold it back out of fear, but after Archer's speach after the plasma explosion that killed the colony of Paraagan II and the planet, thats was the starting moment for when Vulcan actually starting to realise slowly that humanity was actually pretty mature.
@@jamescooper7878 Other episodes of the series Enterprise also had the Vulcans remarking on how humanity managed to avoid the more severe regressions that plagued the ancient vulcans so they wondered how it could be that humans were able to at least manage their emotions better than the vulcans did and without the strict disciplines they adopted. We weren't just similar to them but we did not have to revert to the strict measures that saved their society and they wanted to know how that could be.
I wouldn't say they feared us but just did not understand how humanity could manage without the strict dedication to logic they used and they did not believe we could manage without the same methods they used.
So... Vulcan could've been a lush green world before all the antimatter bombs and eons of war? 🤯
I imagine that those massive craters that pockmark the surface were not original features
Maybe that's a reason the Vulcans who left looked for a world that was like their previous planet was like and settled there. Over years. They changed due to the planet's cooler climate and lighter gravity and allowed themselves to experience emotion. The ones who later did on Vulcan-like Cpt. Tanik, Tolaris, and Kov-didn't know how to mind-meld properly and infected others with Pa'nar Syndrome. The VHC at one time decided to outlaw mind-melds and misunderstood Surak's teaching-which the Kir'shara taught. T'Pau was influenced by Syran-a student of Surak's teachings and knew how to cure her illness. I thought it was strange she didn't know how to pick up on T'Pol's remaining trellium addictions and cure those symptoms too.
Yes. It was.
So, why do the Vulcans not terraform the planet then?
@@the11382 they never said. Perhaps they didn’t have the technology then and by the time they did it had healed to the point they didn’t have to and it served as a reminder of why they control their emotions so stringently. Just a thought. They talked about it in the series under the raptors wings (I think that was the title). One of the Enterprise book series. I know they talked about the time period in question and the journey by the Romulans. They were attacked, exposed to radiation and shaped by the migration. They weren’t even sure if Vulcan survived the period. It took generations of travel of course. At first I wasn’t crazy about the story but I ended up enjoying it. Overall a good read.
Where did the Montanans from ST: The Next Generation “Who Watches the Watchers?” come from? Did the proto-Vulcans from Shakari go to many places instead of just Vulcan?
Вот это был нереальный камбэк! Офигенно получилось! Лайк жмякнул))
There is a novel called the lost years by J.M Dillard, which specifically refers to mind masters, or mind lords with incredibly powerful psionic abilities. One was named zakal the terrible with the ability to incinerate his enemies at will with his mind
Diane Duane's excellent ST novel "Spock's World" ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spock%27s_World ) has IMO a good description of pre-reformation Vulcan including how the Romans came about.
Thanks rick . So is that st online imagines Vulcan and a shipyard or is it Mars ?
Yeah that's Vulcan in game
I love this video your presentation was awesom
Would’ve been interesting if First Contact in the Mirror Universe was btwn paranoid/xenophobic humans & paranoid/warlike Vulcans. (But alas, it was just btwn paranoid humans & seemingly-unchanged Vulcans.)
It would be nice for humanity to have one.
To me, all the evidence from ST canon (prior to 2009, of course) points to Vulcans being genetically engineered, possibly as the result of a eugenics era on Vulcan. But, unlike on Earth, where the Augments were defeated and driven off, on Vulcan the non-augmented were driven off to become the Romulans (and perhaps also the Debrune and the Mintakans). This would explain why the Romulans left Vulcan, and also why they appear to be just another ordinary humanoid species, while the Vulcans have many super-humanoid characteristics. It would also explain why the Vulcans found it necessary to adopt a discipline of logic, to help them control the negative side-effects of genetic engineering they have in common with Earth Augments.
Head canon: Surak was Neurodivergent.
Hear me out ND people process things differently, they work by their own mechanism. It makes sense to me that someone who has trouble adapting to social norms would see the constant warfare and fail to see any sense in it
As someone with ASC, that checks out.
Modern Vulcans are pretty good analogues for Autism. Ritualised behaviours, hyperspecialisation in areas of interest, introverted social norms and so on.
@@localhearthian2387 sounds Japanese more than anything
It would be as if First Contact was made by the Klingons. Ow, there's a good What If idea
Delightful
Awhile back, by awhile I mean a few weeks ago, I came up with a theory on why there is such a genetic difference between the vulcans and romulans. It all stems back to how romulans got their ridges, and it goes back to the second episode of star trek picard season 2, where we get to see all those skulls. More specifically, the skull of Sarek, which apparently had light brow ridges. Through that, it established that the romulan ridges might have originally been a vulcan trait, which likely got exacerbated through the genetic bottleneck the romulans went through during their diaspora. It then got me thinking, wait, why are they so different though? Like, why are they considered separate species? I theorize that the main reason why that is the case is because of the nuclear warfare that occurred on Vulcan, which likely irradiated the vulcan people causing many genetic mutations. The romulans being in space and therefore being exposed to less fallout overall, getting less mutations. Yes, I am positing that the vulcans are not the original vulcans, but are their successors while the romulans are the true original vulcans despite being a little bit inbred.
Romulans also underwent genetic enginnering. it is why most of them do not have telepathic abilities and are considered a different species. add in the different environment of Romulus over a thousand years having an effect through the generations. not all romulans have the ridges nor all romulans green tinged you have some black romulans and black vulcans. even a few red headed vulcans where most vulcans and romulans have black hair until they age
The only thing is, while spending decades in space,exposed to cosmic radiation of all sorts , they would be more likely to mutate. Sorry, would have been a good theory if not for that.
@@davidturner7812 hence why genetic enginnering would have been used if there were mutations that needed to be corrected.
Random comment for channel interaction.
I mistook the thumbnail for the Valley of the Dark Lords on Korriban, holy fucking shit Vulcans were brutal as fuck
It seems contradict a bit of what you've said here, but I remember reading a theory that the Vulcans actually had their own eugenics war. That the Romulans are actually descended from the non augments who were chased off the planet, and that the remaining Vulcans didn't adopt an anti-eugenics stance until Surak's teachings caught on. This is why the Vulcans are capable of psychic abilities, and physical feats that we never see in the Romulans.
What's the name of the weapon the guy's wielding on the thumbnail?
It's strange to me that Mirror Vulcans have much the same history. If it weren't for Zephrame Cochrines Magic Shotgun the difference between universes would be fairly negligible.
Vulcans, not dissimilar to humans:
The bad guy forced to become the Goodest Guy.
1:00 maybe the Vulcans fled Middle Earth? And Will Smith figured out how to hide emotions after initial colonization
In the new "Strange New Worlds", they said that they had never seen a society develop warp bombs, only drives.
I wonder how much of their previous religion and mythology they preserved even under their new system for historical purposes. Surely they could see the logic in preserving their previous beliefs and views even if they no longer follow them deeply.
I don't know if I agree with this analysis. it's unlikely that an unenlightened Vulcan society would have set out exploring other solar systems let alone ventured to earth in the first place . An important question that's not asked here is Why didn't those who walked beneath the raptor's wings conquer earth when they set out looking to create their empire? they had the technological might to do so but Romulus is as far away from earth as can be and plenty far from Vulcan or Andoria and Kronos as well. Early Vulcans were paranoid, arrogant and little more then blood thirsty savages which explain the evolution of Romulan society but they were not really conquerors because having never been conquered themselves, the concept might have been a little foreign to them. What Vulcans did understand and Romulan society shows is the need for autonomy when two Vulcan Factions clashed against each other, one just up and left the whole planet to create a society they could control for themselves.
that is a very interesting take thank you
peace and long life
9:55 Damnit I knew Vivec wasnt a true dummer!
Such angry space elves.
So basically Dark Elves?
When I sae the Vulcan on the thumbnail I thought this was going to be a Street Fighter video.
: Wow, awesome!
There is fluff that suggests that ancient Vulcan's nuclear wars killed off what little green was left on Vulcan. Also the term 'Awakening' was also to describe Vulcan waking from a nightmare or madness.
It would've been more fitting if "those who march beneath the raptor's wing" actually departed Vulcan in 476 A.D. >:)
So good!
Imagine first contact with the Klingons or Romulans?!
Made Klingons look like tribbles.😅
I prefer the storyline where S'task was the founder of the Romulan exodus.
The transition from dominant unenlightened to dominant enlightened seems to abrupt. I understand that many of the less enlightened left Vulcan, but why would the remaining give up their land, planet, to a group unlikely to fight them? It would be expected that in order to unify a planet under one belief, the enlightened Vulcans at one point had to dominate over the others through war/violence. Unless the other side had an epiphany. Possible, but less probable.
*ILLOGICAL*
😈
I like to think that the war like ancient Vulcans weren’t much more advanced than modern humans. They apparently had sleeper ships that’s how the ancient Romulans left Vulcan?? But they still had projectile weapons and less advanced stuff.
1:36 scrapping... I keep forgetting that you're british 😅
What does not make sense is how the went from hunter gathering 3000bc to leapfrogging Earth.
higher intellect
Do you think it’s possible that the Romulans came into contact with the Romans in someway
Crazy Vulcan's were early 🤣
I found it funny that Arret is Terra spelled backward.
You really need to get your dates handled.
When was surak around. 300 BC or 300 AD, because you said BOTH multiple times.
you know some people say surak’s teachings weren’t meant to suppressed emotions, but to incorporate them into Vulcans’ lives.. cause what logic is there in suppressing emotions?
I wonder how a hand to hand fight between a full blooded Vulcan & Klingon would go down
Hooch is crazy.
And James Tiberius Kirk is loved by all of vulcan, or what's left of it.
If the Vulcans didn't either blow themselves out of existence or damage their planet so much that they regressed technically.
Early humans were beasts.
How was Sybok's mother a princess?
In ancient times and in modern times, the wife of a Vulcan Ambassador is called a Lady. Amanda, though a human and Spock's mother, was called a Lady as well. I don't know if T'Pol's mother T'Les was called one or not.
I love this if you're a aquarius ♒ moon
Your a valcan 😅