5 Reasons The Yamaha V-Max Is AWESOME!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2020
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    Quick video going over a few things I totally dig about the 2006 Yamaha V-Max. Enjoy!
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ความคิดเห็น • 117

  • @NOWAY-jw3iq
    @NOWAY-jw3iq 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    I love it when you youngster find out about V-Max.

    • @jeredfowler7194
      @jeredfowler7194 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I have wanted one since before the second gen vmax

    • @2wheelfamily493
      @2wheelfamily493 ปีที่แล้ว

      Im 30 years old come from sportbikes and just bought my 1st vmax can't believe it took me this long to find out what I've been missing such a awesome bike

  • @gtf_outside2181
    @gtf_outside2181 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Nothing like the vmax. I love mine. Ive got a 2000 model. And it was my first bike. The first time I ever got on a full size bike was the day I bought it. Always a wild ride.

    • @stevemackenzie8250
      @stevemackenzie8250 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      And it has enough power to carry those massive balls of yours.

  • @MuppetVT
    @MuppetVT 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    The first 4 reasons are each cylinder in the engine

  • @brettbenson4516
    @brettbenson4516 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    The Vmax is such an awesome and unique motorcycle.

  • @adamr9911
    @adamr9911 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My dad got a 97 Yamaha vmax 1200 about a year ago, 2 months ago I started riding it as my first every 2 wheeled vehicle. As a 15 year old this bike will live with me forever

  • @2wheelfamily493
    @2wheelfamily493 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I come from riding sportbikes and just bought my 1992 VMAX for $2500 I'm addicted to the bike and I own a lot of superbikes says a lot about the VMAX

  • @grahambambeck7452
    @grahambambeck7452 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I had an 89 for a bit over a year and it is definitely a bike I want to own again. Demands your attention when you're pushing it but, is rather tame when you want to cruise. Very cool that the VMAX is still this popular so far into its existence!

  • @jbj18175
    @jbj18175 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I had a 89 model. I loved riding it in the corners i never had a problem with it. I don't know why everyone said it handled bad.

    • @phoenixarizona8441
      @phoenixarizona8441 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I had 88 she was a blast on twisty roads now I have a kz750

  • @zipzap4706
    @zipzap4706 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I had an '85 and loved it (even with the infamous 2nd gear problem). V-boost was insane.
    I ran an 11.29 @ 129 without second gear - what a beast! My favourite bike!

  • @simpleman3682
    @simpleman3682 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I bought a new Honda V65 Magna. 118 HP. Back in 1984. Loved the bike and crazy fast. The vmax came out the year after. 0-60 it was just whoever could get them to hook and go. Haha. They were about equal to 100 but after that the VMAX would walk the dog. I'd love to have one now. Sweet bike for sure. 😎

    • @heathhill7802
      @heathhill7802 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Your v65 is only thing I would suggest running first before the max ! Worked and rode abuch, haven't owned one yet but will .

  • @Tomcat_92
    @Tomcat_92 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I want this or the second Gen to be my first bike. I know I'm crazy, but as an Italian guy I dwelled in madness and visceral feelings since the day I was born and this thing was love at first sight. Just seeing it gave me a feeling that I only experienced when I got into heavy metal music for the first time, a burning, everlasting thrill of passion. I want one for life and never change it.

  • @thtigmif
    @thtigmif 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The first generation V-Max was such a cool looking bike! Not that the second gen is ugly, but it just doesn't look like a muscle cruiser should in my opinion.

  • @tittyrino
    @tittyrino 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have a 1985 Dark Red VMAX with 11,700 original miles. Mint condition. I’m getting new tires this week and changing all the oils n fluids. I am getting ready for the next sunny day 👍

  • @Slakker222
    @Slakker222 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    got a clean 1998 13,000 miles love it,

  • @TheRextc
    @TheRextc 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just got a 2006 myself. Love it so far. Fast bike, rides good, sounds good and looks good. All.while being original.

  • @MichaelSmith-np4xc
    @MichaelSmith-np4xc 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    There is lots of custom things you can do with them I seen one with a big bore kit cams and super charger

  • @CactusJack252
    @CactusJack252 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I had a 97 Magna. This makes me miss that bike

  • @ericbennett2986
    @ericbennett2986 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Cool looking bike, interested to see what else you're going to bring in

  • @Jay_Hall
    @Jay_Hall 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have a 05 since new,,,amazing legend of a machine,,gotta love it. My stocker has 119 RWHP and 80 FPT. When the V-Boost kicks in be ready to shi#!!!!!

  • @dakkedankos4116
    @dakkedankos4116 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The reserve tank switch is on the handle bar, that's an awesome feature I wish more bikes would do it.

  • @vincebarber6933
    @vincebarber6933 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I only test rode one a while back. Torque. Bucket loads of Torque. I want one in the worst way, but I gotta build up some $$$. I have an 03 VTX 1800 right now :)

    • @ajb1117
      @ajb1117 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That vtx1800 is fast asf.

  • @greengos4545
    @greengos4545 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'm picking up a 1985 vmax tomorrow turns over no spark should be an easy fix. 12k miles for $1200

    • @angelobarrett8086
      @angelobarrett8086 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Are you referring to the one in Baytown Texas off marketplace ?

    • @greengos4545
      @greengos4545 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@angelobarrett8086 I was yes, the deal fell through the bike had no compression and water in the oil looked like a chocolate shake. Looks like I'll save more stash money in my toolbox for a running vmax. 🤦‍♂️

  • @EasyRiderGreg
    @EasyRiderGreg 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    From the side it looks badass like it's already going 100 MPH. From the seat that dash looks ugly. The sound is absolutely killer! I'd really like to rev bomb that under a bridge, in a tunnel, or when going by muscle cars. As far as gas tanks under the seats Honda did that with trail bikes and cub models way back in the '50s.

    • @scootergeorge9576
      @scootergeorge9576 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      A matter of taste, I suppose. The engine looks GREAT but the scoops, or whatever they are, just tacky. The seat? I owned a Honda Trail 55, CT-55 and super cub 90, CM-91. Neither had a Vmax like seat. I still have a picture of my Trail 55. Taken circa 1967. Wish I could post it here.

  • @mansolo1756
    @mansolo1756 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    One unique thing I like about the VMAX is the little switch for the gas reserve, its great!

  • @danielc5205
    @danielc5205 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The first gen. Vmaxs are nice bikes. While the first gen. Vmax isn't the fastest thing on the road anymore, their still fast enough to not be boring to ride. They're a well made motorcycle that are relatively easy to work on, and they're reliable if you take care of them.

  • @barend63
    @barend63 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Love my max. Don't try and stop quickly...

  • @user-il1zj4zm8v
    @user-il1zj4zm8v 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I had a Red 1985 the original BEAST 💪💪👍👍

  • @MOUSEBOWEN
    @MOUSEBOWEN 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I just found a 2004 Yamaha V-Max for $2500 with 43000 miles runs amazing according to the owner I will find out tomorrow morning. I never had rode any Yamaha vmax I heard they are so so powerful even more the 2010

    • @2wheelfamily493
      @2wheelfamily493 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Did you ever buy the bike? Just wondering I just bought my first vmax and I'm addicted to the bike been riding sportbikes my whole life

    • @MOUSEBOWEN
      @MOUSEBOWEN ปีที่แล้ว

      @@2wheelfamily493 I did and absolutely love it but had to sell it for financial emergency 🆘 I regretted it but need it to sell to help my family

  • @charliebrownmn3747
    @charliebrownmn3747 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Beautiful bike but I love my 83 honda Sabre 750 v4 80 hp is enough and 13.85 at 99.4 mph 1/4 mile is pretty quick for a stock bike

    • @JonsMotoGarage
      @JonsMotoGarage  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yeah, no kidding! 140 hp is about 100 hp too many for me. Lol.

  • @Davolas46
    @Davolas46 ปีที่แล้ว

    That thing sounds so good

  • @pipes9878
    @pipes9878 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Sssssssh 🤫 you had me at Vmax 😂🤣👍 epic bike 🤘😎👍

  • @jordancolon6000
    @jordancolon6000 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    that pull at 4:16 was lit now i wanna try it

  • @user-ub6hu4hk1z
    @user-ub6hu4hk1z 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I use to own 85 model, connection rod got disconnected while I was cruising 85mph on the highway rear wheel got locked up... was fun moment)

  • @californiapoontappa
    @californiapoontappa 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This and a z900 and ill be good

  • @brianbiro9094
    @brianbiro9094 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I ran dead even on my fazer 700 with a 85 v max 1200 I had stage 3 jet kit and good old Kerner pipe!

  • @RicksAquariumsuk
    @RicksAquariumsuk 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love mine it's a 1990 there definitely 1 of a kind ,great video mate from England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 uk

  • @mikehebronsr264
    @mikehebronsr264 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I just purchased a 99 vmax beginning of this year and i'm super glad with it i have 2300 in it now that I put a battery. After a couple rides I'll say it is dumb they put the RPM on the tank I was way up there at like 10 before I looked down was like ohh shit haha. Great bike so far I dig it it is also my first motorcycle lmao what a rush.

  • @briankrasne3518
    @briankrasne3518 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    having this bike as my first bike has given me some shit your pants moments and really has tought me some discipline with the throttle and yes it puts the fear of god into my eyes that I'm going over 100 in 3rd gear and doesn't want to turn or countersteer for shit at that speed. Yamaha really did mean point it in a safe direction and open it up. the only reason I started o this bike is cause my dad used to drag race a little back in the 80s and knows these bikes really and he tought me how to ride it with respect so I dont kill myself on it. this is not a bike for any beginner in my opinion coming from a beginner. I'm on my second year strong and I find myself only openly it up in 3rd because of how quick it pulls like it's hard to hold on to the bars especially If your rolling off in first or second gears. it's too much bike for most people including me witch is why I love and respect it so much
    in fact you can never show it too much respect because it demands it or it will through you off like bull in a rodeo!

  • @yossiallen3316
    @yossiallen3316 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I sat pillion on one in 1989. It went like a rocket.........in a straight line.
    Subsequent models were stiffened with better forks.

  • @lincolnbrooking2592
    @lincolnbrooking2592 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Ik its a terrible idea but i want this as my first bike

    • @JonsMotoGarage
      @JonsMotoGarage  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Hahaha! All I can say is take it extra easy if you get one! lol

    • @kierenmoore3236
      @kierenmoore3236 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Nice knowin’ ya! 😉

    • @Theologic
      @Theologic 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      It's my first bike.
      Took it across Europe to rip up Norway's Fjords.
      It's just great, if you don't mind the steep learning curve.
      Just respect the power, but of course use it as well, otherwise what's the point of getting a Vmax?

    • @dnutzz8279
      @dnutzz8279 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      It was my first bike and i absolutely love it. I want to upgrade to the gen 2 because the handling on them is better. The reason i chose it as my first bike was i wanted a bike i would be scared of so it would help me to not make a stupid decision and try riskier shit

    • @jared2661able
      @jared2661able 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I just bought a new 2020 V Max. It’s not my 1st bike, but is the only bike that I’ve owned since 1990. The V Max 1700 is a beast...I just purchased mine in Orlando also the only one that I was able to locate in North America and rode it 1,365 miles to Ar. in parts of 3 days.
      I made a pass around a semi running close to 4,000 rpms at approximately 80 mph and with about a quarter twist of the throttle it immediately thrust forward to 90. I honestly said shit ! I couldn’t believe the torque it had. The last bike that I owned in 1990 was a 1985 V 65 Magna also wasn’t a slouch, but like I said the V Max is a beast & deserves your respect.

  • @JG-ct5en
    @JG-ct5en 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Never not gonna be a cool bike. What a ripper

  • @mothor161
    @mothor161 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I could have a '90 model for really cheap. But it only has 74.5 kW. Still worth it?

  • @michaelj.kastner5165
    @michaelj.kastner5165 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wanna try a 2020 real bad

  • @greatlakescopwatchglcw127
    @greatlakescopwatchglcw127 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    IMHO there are only 2 muscle bikes. The Vmax and the Kaw Eliminator.
    2 of the finest 80's era muscle bikes

  • @upsidedowndog1256
    @upsidedowndog1256 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    4 into 1 on a V Max sounds like nothing else. Kudos to Yamaha for daring to build something unique, most companies don't.

    • @Jimbom74
      @Jimbom74 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I had an 86 with a Kerker 4 into 1 with no Baffle. That thing would rattle the windows in your house when I rode it. Only better sound is a dragster!

    • @upsidedowndog1256
      @upsidedowndog1256 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Jimbom74
      My buddy just bought his 85 in OK, the Kerker 4 into 1 spit off the baffle on his way home. He rode without it for years!

    • @Jimbom74
      @Jimbom74 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      upside downdog can’t blame him for not wanting to fix it. The sound is Amazing and turns people’s heads. Loud pipes save lives!!

  • @robertturner2189
    @robertturner2189 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    love my V Max!! Imported a '96 anniversary model from Japan an man - perfect! Ride my Ducati multi as pony - Ride my Vmax ,,,,,well, as a VMX1200. Get that front end lifted mate, It;s no more scarey than anything else about this machine.

  • @Rigg15
    @Rigg15 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Doin' wheelies should be easier on the max than on the harley once you find the proper grippage.

  • @jamesc6363
    @jamesc6363 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wheelies are mo worries but the best thing I've found is put some decent MX style bars on it........

  • @allancooper3865
    @allancooper3865 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Dude at work wants 4K , and has only 3 thousand miles on it , looks a lot like the one your on , but it is all oringal except for a stator that he replaced , not sure if it meets my needs as far as the looks department , cause it is a bit late 90’s which it is , but that power and function is all there ... what should I offer ..?

    • @JonsMotoGarage
      @JonsMotoGarage  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      $4k is a pretty smoking deal based on what I've seen. Wish I could say I paid that for mine. Lol.

    • @briankrasne3518
      @briankrasne3518 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      no less than 3500 hundred and even at that price I'd have trouble letting it go cause it's the most bike you can ever get for your money. I mean shit at 3500 hundred the bike is worth more to keep in my opinion. 3500 is a small chunk of cash and can be replaced easier then the bike cause these things are hard to find!

    • @JonsMotoGarage
      @JonsMotoGarage  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@briankrasne3518 yeah, its a lot of bike for $3k, no doubt.

    • @allancooper3865
      @allancooper3865 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Brian Krasne thx man, I’m going to try and get him to bring it to work again , and I’ll try and post a comment and see how it goes , thx for the info

    • @CactusJack252
      @CactusJack252 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That’s a good price for that bike. They are hard to find.

  • @dnutzz8279
    @dnutzz8279 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If you can test drive the gen 2 they are a completely different feel for the handling. Plus it has 200 hp

    • @JonsMotoGarage
      @JonsMotoGarage  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Ive heard they made some improvements. I'm always keeping my eyes peeled for good deals so we'll see.

    • @dnutzz8279
      @dnutzz8279 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@JonsMotoGarage awesome man i hope ya find a good deal and i subbed to your channel have a great night man

    • @fakenews7266
      @fakenews7266 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You can squeeze 20HP from a Gen 1 but it will cost you a lot of cheddar , you will need to beef up every part of the drive train of things will start breaking

  • @Steve-ec6ed
    @Steve-ec6ed 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Man thats kind of a pain in the ass with the tank under the seat like that. Literally every time you fill up you have to get off the bike and take off the seat? Im sure it looks super cool too doing that at the pump lol

    • @JonsMotoGarage
      @JonsMotoGarage  4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Lol. Same as the vrod. Interesting design choice.

    • @Theologic
      @Theologic 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No he took off the entire seat, it's supposed to be in place when you tank.
      Really you should use the 2 hinges to just flip the one part at 5:20 and you're good to fill it up.
      What he shows in the video is an entire seat that's not attached, so be careful Jon!

    • @JonsMotoGarage
      @JonsMotoGarage  4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@Theologic this is true. You don't have to remove the entire seat to fill up. I just removed it to show how it works.

    • @Theologic
      @Theologic 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@JonsMotoGarage Keep up the great work. I love your videos!

  • @russcoaus2043
    @russcoaus2043 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hi bro nice bike that vmax🆒️✌

    • @JonsMotoGarage
      @JonsMotoGarage  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Shout out to Australia! Thanks, brotha!

    • @russcoaus2043
      @russcoaus2043 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@JonsMotoGarage 👊

  • @emmanuelylagan9976
    @emmanuelylagan9976 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    how much is the average gas consumption ?

  • @xlasvegan7x
    @xlasvegan7x 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Never got more looks on any other bike..

  • @oliverrojas7117
    @oliverrojas7117 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yes, I like the idea of being seen on a 4 cylinder, brutish bike.

  • @HerkulesRS
    @HerkulesRS 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    i think only problem with v-max is really the range.. 15 liter tank and consumes 7l/100km so...

    • @fakenews7266
      @fakenews7266 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm only getting 7 MPG and 21 for a tank , it is the next best thing for watching the world burn around me besides some popcorn 🙂

  • @panda59043
    @panda59043 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    that's not a stock seat , bars or exhaust. changes to oem change the handling etc

  • @connor2610
    @connor2610 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Lit

  • @michaelj.kastner5165
    @michaelj.kastner5165 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Imagine the 1700-cc VMaxx

  • @fakenews7266
    @fakenews7266 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You are missing 2 X 10mm bolts that hold your seat on , fix it ASAP before it fixes you

  • @briankrasne3518
    @briankrasne3518 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    also from my experience with the bike full synthetic motorcycle oil causes the clutch to slip alot and can cause damage to the clutch plates. I found that regular Kawasaki 20w50 motorcycle oil fixed those problems. any regular 20w50 motorcycle oil from your final four will do.

  • @allancooper3865
    @allancooper3865 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What should you pay for a Vmax ???

    • @highball64
      @highball64 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      4 or 5K for a 15-20 year old bike if in excellent condition w/ no known issues is not unheard of at all. I git lucky and caught one for 2500...'01 aftermarket holes hot exhaust & modified vboost, from 2nd owner, after 5K miles with 30K on it.... live it always wanted one also have an '02 means treat 1500 v-twin as well as '97 BMW R1100Rt. Definitely my favorite and most ridden got it to 129 on hwy and will take on virtually anything next to me at a red light.

  • @phoenixarizona8441
    @phoenixarizona8441 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I had a 88 VMax 1200 she would give my cousins zx14 and gsxr1000 a run for their money

  • @saunatakkijumala2190
    @saunatakkijumala2190 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If i buy a cruiser it is definetly a V-max

  • @briankrasne3518
    @briankrasne3518 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I wouldn't put any synthetics of any kind in your vmax.

  • @EllisBurton3339
    @EllisBurton3339 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Where are all the people , do you know something we don't.

  • @milodebruin4821
    @milodebruin4821 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    The real question is, apart from your garage do you ever not park on a path 😆😆😆

  • @CC-os6df
    @CC-os6df 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sounds kinda like a hellcat

  • @richardhodge4556
    @richardhodge4556 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Man I hate to rain on the vmax lovefest, but frankly I hated mine. To be fair, I think I wound up with a dud with bad carb issues (year 1999), acceleration was nill unless you passed 4500rpm, anything less, and a moped would pass you. But...power aside, it was top-heavy, very unstable to park (It fell twice on me), felt weird to ride, cramped riding style, horrible brakes, fidgety steering, and less fuel capacity than a water bottle. I think the ONLY pro it had were looks, and even then only from certain angles. It did get an occasional compliment from those who gave a crap what the bike was. So why did I buy it you ask? It was a teenage love affair, literally I was promising myself I'd own one someday - and because it looks so bad ass. It was like hooking up with a girl that was hot when she was 18....but 35 years later.
    Meh, I was happy to get rid of it after 1.5 years.

    • @JonsMotoGarage
      @JonsMotoGarage  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hahaha! There are definitely things to hate about the vmax. I have a vid on that coming soon. Lol.

  • @ababbit7461
    @ababbit7461 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Basically, the Vmax 1200 is the "best of the worst." Meaning? Meaning, that it is the best muscle cruiser, that is in a category of "1/4 mile race bikes." If you want to race on a 1/4 track, buy a BMW K1200R, K1200S, K1300S, ZX14R, ZX12R, CBR1100XX, CBR1000RR, GSXR1000, well you get the picture... All of those bikes are going to crush the Vmax 1200 on a "muscle bike race" in a 1/4 run. Put any of those bikes against a Vmax 1200 and "dust to dust, ashes to ashes", yes it is "dead" last. Don't challenge those bikes in any of the twisties with a Vmax. So, the Vmax 1200 can beat the cruisers, but not the fast bikes... The Vmax 1200 is the "Best of the worst" in the 1/4 mile races.

  • @ianmccallum2073
    @ianmccallum2073 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yet another Vmax with that hateful back rest arghhhhh

  • @stevecrawford7814
    @stevecrawford7814 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    What’s with all the porn links?

  • @ianmccallum2073
    @ianmccallum2073 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    It’s not a cruiser !!

    • @danielc5205
      @danielc5205 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      The Vmax is a cruiser, Yamaha even calls it a cruiser.

  • @kierenmoore3236
    @kierenmoore3236 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    #1 on the other list needs to be how ugly they are, imho