Spice is basically an analogy for oil, btw. The decision to alter Chani's character is one that I think makes this story's message stronger. Although, it arguably makes her relationship with Paul confusing (and I do think the characters could've been a tad more relatable). It'll be interesting to see what that means moving forward (will she be his concubine?). Despite "absolute power [corrupting] absolutely," I do think Paul is still Paul (ish) - A lot of what I say in this might contradict that idea. I was focusing on his manipulation tactics and/or thirst for revenge. Overall, this film was a STUNNING experience, and one that has become even more powerful upon rewatch(es). I imagine Villeneuve’s Dune (s) will age like Jackson’s Lord of the Rings trilogy - you’ll just watch them forever.
The only thing I can't comprehend is practically cutting out of Spacing Guild, no navigators, no "The Spice must flow" line, wtf it's like the coolest piece of science fiction in the books.
I honestly didn't like how Chani was changed. It feels like a change meant to make her character resonate with a more modern audience, but I believe the original character actually made for a better story. If you think about it, "Book Chani" is a character born in a feudal-like setting where marriages between members of noble houses are a commodity spent to cement alliances. Being a woman of her time, living in that specific place, she acknowledges a custom that is greater than her and that she has no chances to subvert, but she is also assured both by Paul and Jessica that she - as a concubine - is the one Paul truly loves and cares about, while Irulan will be just a figurehead condemned to a loveless marriage and will never receive a single tender attention from Paul. To me the original character fits much better the setting as depicted.
@leonardofacchin1452 I actually do understand your take - it's definitely a change made to appeal to a modern audience and one that doesn't necessarily make sense setting wise. Also, the more I think about it, the less I buy Paul and Chani's relationship given the latter's distrust of him and the propaganda surrounding him. It's just cool they gave Chani the courage to stand alone, and I loved that ending lol.
I saw this by myself in theaters, having not wanted to deal with organizing people, folks being late, getting crappy seats cuz they brought more people than expected etc. I went straight from work to the theater and it was freaking awesome. I did it again a few weeks later. Same movie, still awesome and before the movie started I enjoyed a random conversation about the books with an old bloke that also was by himself in the seat next to me.
Same! Went twice to see it in IMAX, one in my native French at around midnight and the other in English during a late pm run. Had way less uncivilized and disturbing people at midnight
My read on the "desert spring tears" scene: Paul probably only needed a few drops of the poison to shock his system and wake him from the coma, but Jessica, knowing all the details of Fremen prophecy, takes the opportunity to call on Chani to orchestrate the myth of the Mahdi being saved by desert spring tears. As written.
Paul was awake the whole time, he could hear what was going on around him, he was just waiting for Chani to do what she did so that it would fit ghe Fremen belief.
@@Atrydka in the book he did not need a drop from Chani, in fact he woke up as Chani was removing the poison from the water saying it was not necessary.
At the end of the movie I feel like Paul knows he is becoming the villain but he also knows that it must be done. You can hear in his voice how sad he is to give the order when he says "lead them to paradise"
@@cosmocoatl Well I haven't read the books so this is speculation. But my feeling is that Paul knows he has to do dark things now to allow someone better to rise and follow him. The movie is hinting at his sister or Chani being that successor.
@@cosmocoatl if you dont care SPOILERS AHEAD XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. its for the survival of the human race basically.
@@cosmocoatl: Well, the film has changed some things enough that it might have to be considered its own canon, so it's hard to tell exactly. Going by the books, at that point the holy war has been impossible to avert for a while; in the book Paul concludes to himself after killing Jamis that the only way to avert the holy war at that point would be to kill every single person present, including Stilgar, Chani, and his own mother (and her unborn child, his sister, too). The relevant part is: _«I have seen this place in a dream, he thought._ The thought was both reassuring and frustrating. Somewhere ahead of him on this path, the fanatic hordes cut their gory path across the universe in his name. The green and black Atreides banner would become a symbol of terror. Wild legions would charge into battle screaming their war cry: “Muad’Dib!” _It must not be, he thought. I cannot let it happen._ But he could feel the demanding race consciousness within him, his own terrible purpose, and he knew that no small thing could deflect the juggernaut. It was gathering weight and momentum. If he died this instant, the thing would go on through his mother and his unborn sister. Nothing less than the deaths of all the troop gathered here and now-himself and his mother included-could stop the thing.» As you can see, in the book he already gets his Fremen names very early on, and it's made more clear that even if he were to die at that point his legend would still endure and lead to the holy war without him, which he comes to realize would be even more brutal than with him at the helm, so in terms of the book "what must be done" would be the attempt to somewhat dampen and soften the impact of the coming war, but whether that's what it refers to in the context of the film or not is not as clear.
@@blueskiestrevor5200: Heh, well...I'm not going to spoil anything, but as someone who has read the entire series I can tell you that some parts of that isn't too far off, while other parts of it might not be entirely correct!
I agree that Chani's character is better than the book. Herbert made Chani merely Paul's kissing pillow. This Chani gives us plot tension and highlights the danger of the Messiah trope.
Only two points that I would change would be her giving Paul permission to go south and do what must be done to claim Arrakis for the Fremen and then almost immediately getting mad at him for doing so. It could have been better explained to Chani beforehand that he needs to marry Irulan for political legitimacy. Other than those things her change is better than just a blind follower. Both her and Stilgar could have been more balanced, and then both won over by him surviving the Water of Life.
@@Akaeus Why would we want Chani "won over"? She represents the Freman who are wary of Paul turning this into a fanatical religious uprising and even Paul is deeply terrified by the carnage his actions lead to. Paul's death count is almost uncountable because of this Bene Gesserit fanaticism.
I’m not sure if Chani’s character was better in the movie. Through Jessica, she knew of royal political marriages & was aware what was coming. She also was adept at killing Fremen challengers that intended to kill Paul by challenge, like gunslinger fights in Westerns. She stopped the challenges because it would shame their reputation if it became known that you were not killed by Paul in a challenge, but by his woman. The end brought the lowly title of Concubine up. It is Chani & Paul’s bloodline that affects mankind in the universe, & history will recognize Chani as Paul’s real wife. In the long run, Stilgar was more accurate in recognizing Paul as the Messiah. Not even Paul or Jessica or the Bene Gesserit could see that a greater power was manipulating them & the coincidences propelling him to power was not just good luck. He really was the intended Messiah without believing it himself. This brings on the thought of do we really have free will- Paul was actually compelled to fulfill his intended fate. In a later book, it is the Face Dancers that have manipulated the events because they evolved much quicker than the Bene Gesserit eugenics program. Perhaps there is even a greater power manipulating them. Who knows? Herbert passed away.
@@kenandbarbie-b6c I guess I would disagree. Book Chani is largely just Paul's kissing pillow. The events you describe are only vaguely eluded to they aren't a part of the plot. Movie Chani allows for Herbert's vision of not trusting charismatic leaders to be realized while also making Freman have more of an identity. At least some of them, have agency.
In the books the Baron was ended by Paul’s lil sister wielding a Gom Jabbar. Paul piercing him where the Gom Jabbar would have been is an allusion to that-in that context the “animal” quip is also a reference to what the Reverend Mother Mohiam said to Paul at his test: people who are mere animals will reflexively withdraw from the pain box, and will be ended by the needle.
I appreciate the inclusion of the Arrival scene at the war council! Too many reacters cut it completely. Like you noted, it’s one of the coolest scenes and I love seeing people see it. So cool
Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam (the one who tested Paul with the Gom Jabbar) is Jessica's biological mother/teacher. Jessica's parentage was kept secret from her as well from the Baron. Only the higher up Reverend Mothers knew of this, no one else.
Mohiam being Jessica's mother is lore from the expanded series of novels by F Herbert' son, it is not from F Herbert's original six novels. One can accept details from spin off fiction as "canon" but its probably better to make it clear where you are getting it from, otherwise you're muddying the plot for people unfamiliar with the books.
I loved your commentary! I had similar reactions at multiple points when I saw the film. Also--I saw it multiple times in the theater and ended up going solo, and solo is the absolute BEST. You don't have to worry whether your companions like the film or are enjoying themselves. Highly recommend lol
in that opening fight the harkonens don't activate their shields because one it attracts worms and two and more importantly if a las beam hits a shield you can get an atomic explosion
People often criticize Paul for seeking Pugh's hand, but he is not only following the narrow golden path he perceives as the only way to secure the best future, but he also sees it as a necessary political marriage to gain favour with other houses and legitimize his claim to the throne. Despite resisting his visions for the longest time, believing he can avoid the direst consequences, once he acknowledges the inevitability of his path and the fact that his family and the Fremen won't be safe and free without his own moral and ethical sacrifices, he embraces it. In a lot of reactions people also say that Paul becomes evil/bad after drinking the water of life and waking up, but after being able to perceive time same way he does and having all this knowledge, he just has to make these sacrifices for the Fremen and his family to keep them safe and lead them to the paradise he promised. It does feel like he becomes colder emotionally but I think he is not happy with it himself but has to accept what he has to do, since in his mind he already done these things countless of times.
Great reaction and I loved your analysis throughout. At 58:30 your point about the POV hit me especially hard for some reason, a great observation from a filmmaking standpoint.
52:50 / you’re exactly right, it wasn’t good. But what else is he to do, he became the same kind of figure he sought to destroy. But it was either death of his family or this, he chose survival.
Yes Dune inspired Star Wars heavily. Austin Butler learned to speak like Stellen, as the character was raised by his uncle, so he believed he would speak like him. Chani would be his concubine how his mother was with his father. A political marriage with the emperors daughter.
@@BingeBuffoon: Plagiarism might be a bit too strong of a word, but it obviously draws heavy inspiration from Dune; but it also draws a lot of inspiration from other seminal sci-fi works, like Foundation (which Dune itself was also inspired quite a bit by).
@@BingeBuffoonMost fantasy draws from Tolkien or is written in direct opposition to fantasy that draws from Tolkien. I don't discount Star Wars because it drew from Dune.
Absolutely LOVED this watchalong with you, thanks for that. - what is the clip you show at 25:40 of someone running up a hill path? - I now wish you'd do 1982's Gandhi, only because you ended this posting with a really good quote by him.
They did the Harkonnen gladiatorial fight in infrared (looked like B&W) because that's how Villeneuve interpreted the way the weird sun of Giedi Prime would wash out colours. Baron Harkonnen is gay and wouldn't voluntarily have fathered a child, so his nephews are his heirs. Gay villains are overdone nowadays but IIRC it was a breakthrough choice by Herbert in the 60s.
Chani’s not Stilgar’s daughter. I THINK, however, that the aunt she mentioned in the first movie who gave her the crysknife, is supposed to be Kynes. In the book she is related to Kynes, not Stilgar.
Christopher Walken was an awful choice for The Emperor. In the book, although in his 70s, The Emperor has the look of a man in his mid-thirties due to Spice intake, which extends life.
Oh wow. A 30-something-looking old guy as Emperor could've really helped to hammer home spice as an unbelievably desirable commodity for the elites. Super cool and creepy to think about. Didn't know that (obviously).
@@BingeBuffoon Here’s a quote from the Princess Irulan. "My father, the Padishah Emperor, was 72 yet looked no more than 35 the year he encompassed the death of Duke Leto and gave Arrakis back to the Harkonnens. He seldom appeared in public wearing other than a Sardaukar uniform and a Burseg's black helmet with the Imperial lion in gold upon its crest. The uniform was an open reminder of where his power lay."
the spice gives navigators limited prescience letting them safely plot a course, for other users it extends life, gives greater vitality and heightens awareness its also highly addictive and withdrawal is fatal
In the book Kynes is a White guy, half Fremen and Chani’s father. She and Paul bonded over the fact that both their fathers had been killed by the Harkonnens. But the movie totally dispensed with that storyline.
@@Kevin3dp He was big, politically and socially vital to the book-Kynes was Paul’s window into Fremen politics and culture -And most critically their dream for a green Arrakis. Kynes as the ecologist fed fuel to the fire of the Lisan Al-Gaib Legend, in that he stoked the Fremen hope for a paradise Arrakis -And as I wrote before, Paul and Chani bonded over their fathers’ deaths. Kynes helps you understand Chani. No. Kynes was key to the characters’ development, and to the Fremen, and Paul’s grasp of them. He was important. Herbert had a clear vision for who he was and what he did. It’s only the movie that dispensed with “her.”
@@richlisola1 it’s not needed when you don’t have unlimited pages and can do a montage instead. Movies are a visual medium so rather than spending half the movie spelling stuff like that out they can show clips of him integrating and expect the audience to not be completely brain dead. It’s an adaption, not a 1:1 recreation
Bcz the Baron must have had a sister or brother bcz Feyd did kill hes mother so they would be second Cuzns and Paul’s mother would be Fedy first cousin
Yes, there are several echoes of Villeneuve’s “2049” in the DUNE films, including the one noted in this reaction, face bounce, floating objects, flying vehicles crashing with unusual momentum, etc. And yes, they were really asking for the cow bell recollection. Also, Chani comes comically close to saying that her secret name is Zendaya.
Dune will be a movie that will be replayed in Imax theaters, forever. I saw this alone in theaters because nobody wanted to see it..."too long" pff...losers. LOL
Yeah, I recently found out that the blue signals she's in love (Fremen women wear blue when they're in love). Later in the reaction, I say something like - "it's a sign of her independence/freedom"...couldn't be more wrong lol.
@@BingeBuffoon in the book it meant she had a child, but Im not sure if it was supposed to be an easter egg for book fans (and a way for the audience to recognize her in the battle) or SPOILER if she's actually pregnant with the first Leto II in the movie
@@Atrydka One flaw with the movie is how time jumps are easy to miss, or perhaps not even shown and left for the viewer to figure out. By the time of the build up and battle Paul and Chani have been together for a while, where we only see a few scenes from the kiss onwards, so perhaps she is before she leaves? And we don't know yet how Denis will be developing their relationship from here, although Paul states knowingly that she will come to understand...but doesn't say she'll be back. I do think just having her throw out her distaste for the manipulation of prophecy as well as taking the princess' hand to gain the throne just because she "understands now" would undermine her development in this movie, so maybe a big part will be them finding some consolidation or middle ground. She still cares for Paul (what there is of him now), so I don't think she'd just stay away. One thing that I thought was in the movie but perhaps it's just from comments I've read from book readers - Chani understands that it's a common thing for men to have a wife for status but a concubine who is actually the lover, so that part wouldn't be a shock, only that it came from nowhere and was happening to her this time.
If I remember correctly, when I said, "how does she know?" I was asking how she knew he'd ultimately come south and drink the water (prescience/an assumption/it's just what needed to happen). I know/knew what the water does.
Spice is basically an analogy for oil, btw.
The decision to alter Chani's character is one that I think makes this story's message stronger. Although, it arguably makes her relationship with Paul confusing (and I do think the characters could've been a tad more relatable). It'll be interesting to see what that means moving forward (will she be his concubine?). Despite "absolute power [corrupting] absolutely," I do think Paul is still Paul (ish) - A lot of what I say in this might contradict that idea. I was focusing on his manipulation tactics and/or thirst for revenge.
Overall, this film was a STUNNING experience, and one that has become even more powerful upon rewatch(es). I imagine Villeneuve’s Dune (s) will age like Jackson’s Lord of the Rings trilogy - you’ll just watch them forever.
I love getting high on oil.
The only thing I can't comprehend is practically cutting out of Spacing Guild, no navigators, no "The Spice must flow" line, wtf it's like the coolest piece of science fiction in the books.
@@bury0777 “The Spice must flow” is *not* in the book Dune. That line was invented by David Lynch for the 1984 film.
I honestly didn't like how Chani was changed.
It feels like a change meant to make her character resonate with a more modern audience, but I believe the original character actually made for a better story. If you think about it, "Book Chani" is a character born in a feudal-like setting where marriages between members of noble houses are a commodity spent to cement alliances. Being a woman of her time, living in that specific place, she acknowledges a custom that is greater than her and that she has no chances to subvert, but she is also assured both by Paul and Jessica that she - as a concubine - is the one Paul truly loves and cares about, while Irulan will be just a figurehead condemned to a loveless marriage and will never receive a single tender attention from Paul.
To me the original character fits much better the setting as depicted.
@leonardofacchin1452 I actually do understand your take - it's definitely a change made to appeal to a modern audience and one that doesn't necessarily make sense setting wise. Also, the more I think about it, the less I buy Paul and Chani's relationship given the latter's distrust of him and the propaganda surrounding him. It's just cool they gave Chani the courage to stand alone, and I loved that ending lol.
Going to the theatre by yourself is underrated.
Real ones know.
I saw this by myself in theaters, having not wanted to deal with organizing people, folks being late, getting crappy seats cuz they brought more people than expected etc. I went straight from work to the theater and it was freaking awesome.
I did it again a few weeks later. Same movie, still awesome and before the movie started I enjoyed a random conversation about the books with an old bloke that also was by himself in the seat next to me.
Yep I tend to always see movies by myself and it's great.
I took a day off and went on a Thursday afternoon to the IMAX. It was me and two others. It was awesome lol
Same! Went twice to see it in IMAX, one in my native French at around midnight and the other in English during a late pm run. Had way less uncivilized and disturbing people at midnight
My read on the "desert spring tears" scene: Paul probably only needed a few drops of the poison to shock his system and wake him from the coma, but Jessica, knowing all the details of Fremen prophecy, takes the opportunity to call on Chani to orchestrate the myth of the Mahdi being saved by desert spring tears. As written.
Oh ok. That makes total sense. Even when her son is on the brink of death, she uses it as an opportunity to manipulate. Wild
Paul was awake the whole time, he could hear what was going on around him, he was just waiting for Chani to do what she did so that it would fit ghe Fremen belief.
@@1Theraptor i dont buy it, it was similar in the book, he needed the drop of the poison to wake up
Paul needed a few drops of the transmutated water of life, the one not poisonous.
@@Atrydka in the book he did not need a drop from Chani, in fact he woke up as Chani was removing the poison from the water saying it was not necessary.
At the end of the movie I feel like Paul knows he is becoming the villain but he also knows that it must be done. You can hear in his voice how sad he is to give the order when he says "lead them to paradise"
The question is " it must be done" ... for what goal?
@@cosmocoatl Well I haven't read the books so this is speculation. But my feeling is that Paul knows he has to do dark things now to allow someone better to rise and follow him. The movie is hinting at his sister or Chani being that successor.
@@cosmocoatl if you dont care SPOILERS AHEAD XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.
its for the survival of the human race basically.
@@cosmocoatl:
Well, the film has changed some things enough that it might have to be considered its own canon, so it's hard to tell exactly.
Going by the books, at that point the holy war has been impossible to avert for a while; in the book Paul concludes to himself after killing Jamis that the only way to avert the holy war at that point would be to kill every single person present, including Stilgar, Chani, and his own mother (and her unborn child, his sister, too). The relevant part is:
_«I have seen this place in a dream, he thought._
The thought was both reassuring and frustrating. Somewhere ahead of him on this path, the fanatic hordes cut their gory path across the universe in his name. The green and black Atreides banner would become a symbol of terror. Wild legions would charge into battle screaming their war cry: “Muad’Dib!”
_It must not be, he thought. I cannot let it happen._
But he could feel the demanding race consciousness within him, his own terrible purpose, and he knew that no small thing could deflect the juggernaut. It was gathering weight and momentum. If he died this instant, the thing would go on through his mother and his unborn sister. Nothing less than the deaths of all the troop gathered here and now-himself and his mother included-could stop the thing.»
As you can see, in the book he already gets his Fremen names very early on, and it's made more clear that even if he were to die at that point his legend would still endure and lead to the holy war without him, which he comes to realize would be even more brutal than with him at the helm, so in terms of the book "what must be done" would be the attempt to somewhat dampen and soften the impact of the coming war, but whether that's what it refers to in the context of the film or not is not as clear.
@@blueskiestrevor5200:
Heh, well...I'm not going to spoil anything, but as someone who has read the entire series I can tell you that some parts of that isn't too far off, while other parts of it might not be entirely correct!
I agree that Chani's character is better than the book. Herbert made Chani merely Paul's kissing pillow. This Chani gives us plot tension and highlights the danger of the Messiah trope.
100%
Only two points that I would change would be her giving Paul permission to go south and do what must be done to claim Arrakis for the Fremen and then almost immediately getting mad at him for doing so. It could have been better explained to Chani beforehand that he needs to marry Irulan for political legitimacy. Other than those things her change is better than just a blind follower.
Both her and Stilgar could have been more balanced, and then both won over by him surviving the Water of Life.
@@Akaeus Why would we want Chani "won over"? She represents the Freman who are wary of Paul turning this into a fanatical religious uprising and even Paul is deeply terrified by the carnage his actions lead to. Paul's death count is almost uncountable because of this Bene Gesserit fanaticism.
I’m not sure if Chani’s character was better in the movie. Through Jessica, she knew of royal political marriages & was aware what was coming. She also was adept at killing Fremen challengers that intended to kill Paul by challenge, like gunslinger fights in Westerns. She stopped the challenges because it would shame their reputation if it became known that you were not killed by Paul in a challenge, but by his woman. The end brought the lowly title of Concubine up. It is Chani & Paul’s bloodline that affects mankind in the universe, & history will recognize Chani as Paul’s real wife.
In the long run, Stilgar was more accurate in recognizing Paul as the Messiah. Not even Paul or Jessica or the Bene Gesserit could see that a greater power was manipulating them & the coincidences propelling him to power was not just good luck. He really was the intended Messiah without believing it himself. This brings on the thought of do we really have free will- Paul was actually compelled to fulfill his intended fate. In a later book, it is the Face Dancers that have manipulated the events because they evolved much quicker than the Bene Gesserit eugenics program. Perhaps there is even a greater power manipulating them. Who knows? Herbert passed away.
@@kenandbarbie-b6c I guess I would disagree. Book Chani is largely just Paul's kissing pillow. The events you describe are only vaguely eluded to they aren't a part of the plot. Movie Chani allows for Herbert's vision of not trusting charismatic leaders to be realized while also making Freman have more of an identity. At least some of them, have agency.
In the books the Baron was ended by Paul’s lil sister wielding a Gom Jabbar. Paul piercing him where the Gom Jabbar would have been is an allusion to that-in that context the “animal” quip is also a reference to what the Reverend Mother Mohiam said to Paul at his test: people who are mere animals will reflexively withdraw from the pain box, and will be ended by the needle.
I appreciate the inclusion of the Arrival scene at the war council! Too many reacters cut it completely. Like you noted, it’s one of the coolest scenes and I love seeing people see it. So cool
Incredibly filmed scene.
Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam (the one who tested Paul with the Gom Jabbar) is Jessica's biological mother/teacher. Jessica's parentage was kept secret from her as well from the Baron. Only the higher up Reverend Mothers knew of this, no one else.
Mohiam being Jessica's mother is lore from the expanded series of novels by F Herbert' son, it is not from F Herbert's original six novels. One can accept details from spin off fiction as "canon" but its probably better to make it clear where you are getting it from, otherwise you're muddying the plot for people unfamiliar with the books.
I loved your commentary! I had similar reactions at multiple points when I saw the film.
Also--I saw it multiple times in the theater and ended up going solo, and solo is the absolute BEST. You don't have to worry whether your companions like the film or are enjoying themselves. Highly recommend lol
I'm definitely going to get back to my solo roots (not seeing this one on the big screen was a mistake). Thanks for watching!
in that opening fight the harkonens don't activate their shields because one it attracts worms and two and more importantly if a las beam hits a shield you can get an atomic explosion
Jessica is more interested in the kwizats Haderach. Lisan Algiab is just a story to push him to become KH
True about the lasgun, but I never see the Fremen using lasguns
@@richlisola1 you see then chopping up the harvesters with them and it's also the rifle that the harkonens are carrying in that first scene
Chani lost both Paul AND her people. What a sad end.
Star Wars inspired Dune when Herbert used his time machine to jump a decade into the future and steal Lucas' manuscripts.
😵💫
if i remember right in the book Chani is the daughter of Liet Kynes
But Liet Kynes is a woman in the films, right?
@@BingeBuffoon yes
People often criticize Paul for seeking Pugh's hand, but he is not only following the narrow golden path he perceives as the only way to secure the best future, but he also sees it as a necessary political marriage to gain favour with other houses and legitimize his claim to the throne. Despite resisting his visions for the longest time, believing he can avoid the direst consequences, once he acknowledges the inevitability of his path and the fact that his family and the Fremen won't be safe and free without his own moral and ethical sacrifices, he embraces it.
In a lot of reactions people also say that Paul becomes evil/bad after drinking the water of life and waking up, but after being able to perceive time same way he does and having all this knowledge, he just has to make these sacrifices for the Fremen and his family to keep them safe and lead them to the paradise he promised. It does feel like he becomes colder emotionally but I think he is not happy with it himself but has to accept what he has to do, since in his mind he already done these things countless of times.
Great reaction and I loved your analysis throughout. At 58:30 your point about the POV hit me especially hard for some reason, a great observation from a filmmaking standpoint.
52:50 / you’re exactly right, it wasn’t good. But what else is he to do, he became the same kind of figure he sought to destroy. But it was either death of his family or this, he chose survival.
Yes Dune inspired Star Wars heavily. Austin Butler learned to speak like Stellen, as the character was raised by his uncle, so he believed he would speak like him. Chani would be his concubine how his mother was with his father. A political marriage with the emperors daughter.
I just want to say that the more I think about Star Wars and Dune, the more it feels like plagiarism (if Lucas didn't understand Dune thematically).
@@BingeBuffoon:
Plagiarism might be a bit too strong of a word, but it obviously draws heavy inspiration from Dune; but it also draws a lot of inspiration from other seminal sci-fi works, like Foundation (which Dune itself was also inspired quite a bit by).
@@BingeBuffoonMost fantasy draws from Tolkien or is written in direct opposition to fantasy that draws from Tolkien. I don't discount Star Wars because it drew from Dune.
You actually managed the director’s name better than most. Except for the 1st syllable. It’s Duh-nee (french pronunciation)
Noted.
I think you are the only reactor that got the Dennis thought in the movie
Absolutely LOVED this watchalong with you, thanks for that.
- what is the clip you show at 25:40 of someone running up a hill path?
- I now wish you'd do 1982's Gandhi, only because you ended this posting with a really good quote by him.
I absolutely love that your username is chefskiss. That clip was from 1995's Braveheart. Thanks for watching.
@@BingeBuffoon Much appreciated.
*Paul flailing on the worm*
“And Paul. Look what he’s up to.”
😅
The last sight of those Fremen getting onto the ships is so cool...until you remember that 65 billion people are about to die.
They did the Harkonnen gladiatorial fight in infrared (looked like B&W) because that's how Villeneuve interpreted the way the weird sun of Giedi Prime would wash out colours.
Baron Harkonnen is gay and wouldn't voluntarily have fathered a child, so his nephews are his heirs. Gay villains are overdone nowadays but IIRC it was a breakthrough choice by Herbert in the 60s.
The franchise WAS FINISHED after the FIRST book.
The only reason there were ANY more books was due to his publisher’s harassment.
Chani’s not Stilgar’s daughter.
I THINK, however, that the aunt she mentioned in the first movie who gave her the crysknife, is supposed to be Kynes.
In the book she is related to Kynes, not Stilgar.
@57:07 you don't need to correct what you said to galaxy. In the books, the Padishah Emperor is emperor of the known universe in their title
10:55 Also possibly because Stilgar is from the South where the beliefs in the Messiah are more extreme.
Dr Liet Kynes is Chani's father. In the books :)
“Vil-New”, if you hear him say his own name during interviews.
I thoroughly enjoy watching a good movie by myself. Best company ever!
Christopher Walken was an awful choice for The Emperor. In the book, although in his 70s, The Emperor has the look of a man in his mid-thirties due to Spice intake, which extends life.
Oh wow. A 30-something-looking old guy as Emperor could've really helped to hammer home spice as an unbelievably desirable commodity for the elites. Super cool and creepy to think about. Didn't know that (obviously).
@@BingeBuffoon
Here’s a quote from the Princess Irulan.
"My father, the Padishah Emperor, was 72 yet looked no more than 35 the year he encompassed the death of Duke Leto and gave Arrakis back to the Harkonnens. He seldom appeared in public wearing other than a Sardaukar uniform and a Burseg's black helmet with the Imperial lion in gold upon its crest. The uniform was an open reminder of where his power lay."
As good as Walken is, here he was a total miscast.
the spice gives navigators limited prescience letting them safely plot a course, for other users it extends life, gives greater vitality and heightens awareness its also highly addictive and withdrawal is fatal
Loved your reaction to this
13:15 Close… sort of. Dr Kynes was her father in the book.
So is Kynes her mom in the first film? This is where I got confused, I think.
@@BingeBuffoon:
I don't think that's stated at all in the films, so it might be changed completely in the film canon. Could be, though.
Rabban is a bad boss. Stilgar is my favorite.
Rabban is definitely a terrible boss lol
In the book Kynes is a White guy, half Fremen and Chani’s father. She and Paul bonded over the fact that both their fathers had been killed by the Harkonnens.
But the movie totally dispensed with that storyline.
But he isn't... Kynes is her father
No, Kynes is Chani's father in the book. They changed Kynes to female in the movies.
That was just a very minor thing in the books though. Not really a big plot point. I was ok with the change.
@@Kevin3dp He was big, politically and socially vital to the book-Kynes was Paul’s window into Fremen politics and culture -And most critically their dream for a green Arrakis. Kynes as the ecologist fed fuel to the fire of the Lisan Al-Gaib Legend, in that he stoked the Fremen hope for a paradise Arrakis -And as I wrote before, Paul and Chani bonded over their fathers’ deaths. Kynes helps you understand Chani. No. Kynes was key to the characters’ development, and to the Fremen, and Paul’s grasp of them.
He was important. Herbert had a clear vision for who he was and what he did. It’s only the movie that dispensed with “her.”
@@richlisola1 it’s not needed when you don’t have unlimited pages and can do a montage instead. Movies are a visual medium so rather than spending half the movie spelling stuff like that out they can show clips of him integrating and expect the audience to not be completely brain dead. It’s an adaption, not a 1:1 recreation
Chani and Paul 1000% did the deed.
Otherwise the book series would not exist. 🤷🏼♀️
I was totally kidding. Pretty sure I said as much.
Giedi Prime has a Black Sun, if you were paying attention. They also filmed that whole sequence with infrared cameras
Also, Giedi Prime having a black sun was Denis' choice, a differentiation from the books to show the contrast of Harkonnen society
Pretty sure I put a note about this in the video.
I am a bit lost to why Paul called Feyd his cousin, if the Baron is his grandfather and Feyd's uncle?
Paul's cousin once removed. Similar idea to that of second cousins, but not really.
Bcz the Baron must have had a sister or brother bcz Feyd did kill hes mother so they would be second Cuzns and Paul’s mother would be Fedy first cousin
Yes, there are several echoes of Villeneuve’s “2049” in the DUNE films, including the one noted in this reaction, face bounce, floating objects, flying vehicles crashing with unusual momentum, etc. And yes, they were really asking for the cow bell recollection. Also, Chani comes comically close to saying that her secret name is Zendaya.
37:49 its not, hes just gay/bisexual because the author of the book was a known homophobe and wanted the villains of his books to be gay 😂
HAR- KOH- NEN
Shoutout Bukowski
@@BingeBuffoon Ham and cheese, post office, women.
Wow, interesting commentary. 🤔
Lol. I have fun sometimes.
Dune will be a movie that will be replayed in Imax theaters, forever.
I saw this alone in theaters because nobody wanted to see it..."too long" pff...losers. LOL
Chani’s blue headscarf in the worm riding scene is IMPORTANT.
Yeah, I recently found out that the blue signals she's in love (Fremen women wear blue when they're in love). Later in the reaction, I say something like - "it's a sign of her independence/freedom"...couldn't be more wrong lol.
@@BingeBuffoon in the book it meant she had a child, but Im not sure if it was supposed to be an easter egg for book fans (and a way for the audience to recognize her in the battle) or SPOILER
if she's actually pregnant with the first Leto II in the movie
@@Atrydka One flaw with the movie is how time jumps are easy to miss, or perhaps not even shown and left for the viewer to figure out. By the time of the build up and battle Paul and Chani have been together for a while, where we only see a few scenes from the kiss onwards, so perhaps she is before she leaves?
And we don't know yet how Denis will be developing their relationship from here, although Paul states knowingly that she will come to understand...but doesn't say she'll be back. I do think just having her throw out her distaste for the manipulation of prophecy as well as taking the princess' hand to gain the throne just because she "understands now" would undermine her development in this movie, so maybe a big part will be them finding some consolidation or middle ground. She still cares for Paul (what there is of him now), so I don't think she'd just stay away.
One thing that I thought was in the movie but perhaps it's just from comments I've read from book readers - Chani understands that it's a common thing for men to have a wife for status but a concubine who is actually the lover, so that part wouldn't be a shock, only that it came from nowhere and was happening to her this time.
#JustWormStuff
How did Jessica know Paul needed to drink the Water? Because she got all the memories of the previous Bene Gesserit
Also, when Paul drank it he got all of the past female Bene Gesserit memories, and he got all of the past male ancestral memories as well
If I remember correctly, when I said, "how does she know?" I was asking how she knew he'd ultimately come south and drink the water (prescience/an assumption/it's just what needed to happen). I know/knew what the water does.
You should've watched Dune Part One before you did this tbh, would've made it much more fulfilling
can’t watch you… you havent a clue
Story of my life.