Nice video, the WS4 is what steered me away from this unit and instead I run mine as a terminator command squad. The combi-flamers are a great shout, it's amazing what you can accidentally skip over and demonstrates the value of videos like this - another set of eyes do wonders!
Combi Flamers are especially great with Salamanders, since you can effectively give the whole squad Heavy Flamers, and a squad of 5 will likely get ignored as a target for your opponents big guns, since they've 'just' got short range Flamers.
Great analysis. One house rule that I request pre-game and my opponents usually agree with is that if the unit can take a Land Raider Proteus Carrier as a dedicated transport, they can also take a Land Raider Mk IIB as such. The Mark IIB has the exact same data sheet as the Proteus carrier, same cost and roughly the same footprint. If you have a Mark IIB, feel free to use it as a Proteus Carrier. You can even squadron one up with an actual Proteus Carrier model.
@@wulfbak I come to roll dice and have fun. Proxy whatever you want and let's roll some dice! - that's my mantra for HH. I would be pretty unenthused to play against people who cannot accept a proxy or a 3d print...
Appreciate the info, coming from 40K I wasn't sure exactly what I needed to be doing with my Cataphractii given their WS4 and didn't want to make them too expensive. The clarity of "this specifically is what they're built to do" is very helpful!
I'd probably still consider going with the power fist over power axe by default. For the same effect of striking at Initiative 1, you may as well get your points worth out of Instant Death vs marines on top of AP2, and if you're feeling plucky you can always substitute a chainfist or two for some boosted anti-armour capability. As for the thunder hammer, you're taking it more for Brutal (2) than you are for anti-armour. As for ranged, that depends on the legion. For instance, you might get some use out of a Dragon's Breath Heavy Flamer or two out of a Salamanders cataphractii squad as a unit that's intending to charge what they just shot at anyway, but the investment to do so requires careful set-up of both force composition, deployment and positioning to pull it off well. As you pointed out, these guys kind of need that Land Raider to bring them into charge range, especially given certain deployment set-ups that may force you to fight up the long edge of a table - the game will likely end before they've crossed no-man's land otherwise - and ideally you'd want to bait out your opponent's Movement phase reactions before committing. This also influences how large of a squad you can use as well, since Terminator squads cannot be assigned a Land Raider Proteus if they have more than 5 models before attached independent characters. My best guess as to whether volkite chargers or combi-bolters are worth taking is entirely dependent on whether you fancy your chances of wounding the target (+deflagrate) vs being able to re-roll failed hits. Like you said, this is more of a melee-oriented unit, so the maximum range of either isn't really going to be much of a consideration when they're lining up for a charge, and they both have the same chance to inflict an initial wound on a marine per shot.
I did the same, Power Fists with my second lot of 5, Power Fists are really good for bullying other non-elite terminators thanks to Instant Death and AP2 at a very reasonable price per model.
Ah that answers that. Your videos are just superb, it can sometimes be a little confusing how to build units in HH and I like a good kit bash. Just picked up the box set to add to my Ultras force so thinking I grab a pack of 5 power axes from forge world. And some missile launchers from somewhere and magnetize them for use as Fulmentarus. 5 axes, maybe 2 sword for ablative wounds, 2 chainfist, See if I can find a cpl of other power weapons in my bits box....I already have 3 with TH and 2 with dual Lightning Claws so I reckon that's the way forward to give me the biggest choice from the 15 figures.
Really appreciate the information, working on my Iron Warriors armoured company - command squad, Dominators, Tyrant Siege and cataphractii, all in land raiders and Spartan
Really happy that the 10 terminators I built years ago when Betrayal at Calth came out actually have a decent loadout with mostly power axes, a couple of heavy flamers and chainfists.
I'm a fan of loading them up with power mace/combi volkite or single lightning claw/combi volkite being able to dump 4 shits into a unit at 12" is pretty fun
I would make use of tanks and heavy support squads to provide fire support for the Terminators and Tactical squads. The Lightning Claws and Power weapons are great options for them.
Great video! I have just been building an 8 man squad with a mix of chainfists and power fists plus a thunder hammer, given me food for thought here for sure.
I feel you under-sell Power fists a bit, for 10 points getting AP 2 and instant death on anything toughness 4 or bellow make them an amazing choice in terminator vs terminator fights. Power Axes are nice given you can get them for free, but 2 wound terminators being killed in one hit is well worth the extra investment. Although perhaps I’m a bit Biased, I play Alpha Legion, and the power axes on my Learnians often just frustrate me cos they don’t kill terminators fast enough.
Thank you for a good advice video. I was struggling with this unit's weapons option. Could you do a similar thing to the Tartaros Terminators and maybe compare the strength and weaknesses of both of those units?
I’m new to heresy but I have seen some Videos of the old game where people play shattered legion formation of multiple legions. Is that still a thing or are we expecting to be able to run the Warmasters madman horde in a supplement perhaps
A question regarding the Equipment : - Augury scanner : Even as an IF player I wouldn't take it only because of it's Nightfights benefits, as for Bolters it makes no difference, but with Kheres or other long-range weapon.... But wouldn't you take one because of it's capabilities to avoid nasty surprises ( infiltration within 18") and enhanced reaction, especially when the Caties are tasked with objective sittin. - Nuncio Vox : wouldn't it be beneficial for Caties with Grenade-Launchers if they could re-roll scatter dies for the templates and , on a side note, avoiding the -1 Penalty on Leadership during Nightfights ? - Vexilla : yes , save the points for a better P-Weapon...although..these Vexillas look very cool...😉
That part is good but generally you’ll have it elsewhere in your force. Its certainly a legitimate reason to take it though if you dont have it elsewhere!
I like the idea of keeping them in that sweet spot where they're too cheap to pay attention to, but they're too durable to ignore. I've been focusing on building out tartaros termies since I can equip them with 3++ vigil storm shields, but this is something new to think about. How do you feel about loading them with solarite gauntlets? S10 AP1 so they're a legitimate vehicle threat, give more Istant Death opportunity, and hit into dreads better for 15 points - same as a thunderhammer but no brutal. I've got a 5-man Huscarl squad with these (my local meta treats the pdfs the same level as the Libers) and they do a lot of killing. I've 5 more terminators to build and I'm tempted to kit them out similarly with a lot of solar gauntlets but I'm not sure the return on killing power can justify the point investment. The solar gauntlets are cheaper for the huscarls but 15pts is a lot for regular termies. As ever, great video!
Being WS5 or having other rules wildly changes the maths so a lot of the advice in this video doesnt really apply to huscarls etc. For regular catas, id treat solarites the same way I treat hammers in this video. And thanks as ever!
I've gone for 10 Deathwing cataphractii with power swords in a Spartan - not the most competitive but absolutely worth it for the fluff (plus it'll help balance out the 5 Inner Circle and various other terranic greatswords I have scattered about). In my Pride of the Legion list their job is to butcher their way onto an objective and then hold it forever
@@GreatGenus The arms were the hardest part to source, I just sucked it up and bought two FW weapon sets that include Cataphractii arms and used those The swords are a mix from all over - the new MkVI kit, MkIII kit, Deathwatch Veterans, Ravenwing upgrade sprue, Assault Intercessors, plus the one that actually comes with the Cataphractii. I had them all lying around in my bits collection so it was no problem
For someone who made 8 according to your AoD box video =/ The big problem with the AoD box as well as the reboxed HH kit (same sprues) is that you don't get the arms to make squads with power axes or maces. Adding on extra expenses to make a unit "efficient" just feels bad.
The lightning claws are fine if youre not trying to heavily optimise, and they ARE decent weapons. If youve already got some, get a few with axes/maces too and you can mix to make them more efficient! But yes, frustrating how expensive the power weps they literally come with are. 3d printing or 3rd party is good though!
I think the main reason people overlook Combi-Grenade Launchers is getting the grenade launcher part of the combi frame. Iirc FW used to have 2 frames of combi weapons, one had plas, flamer and melta and the other had volkite and GLs, but I believe they were discontinued.
Now this is technically still a Cataphractii Terminator, but if you turn these into a Cataphractii Command Squad, would you still recommend a few "good" weapons and most as standard to keep costs down, or would you say invest here cause WS5?
Go as crazy as you want with command squads! My tartaros command squad has 3 thunder hammers and 2 guys with axes, but could easily just be 5 hammers. Having some “ablative” wounds is still good general advice but i prefer my command squads uber :)
Trying to come up with a good way to run these has been the most annoying part of listbuilding for me. Any cheap option just ends with "But then I don't want to spend points on a Land Raider, and now they're so slow I want Tartaros instead". Any expensive option ends with "Now I might as well use Firedrakes instead", especially when Firedrakes get cheaper Hammers and Shields. Might just be a Salamander thing but it feels like regular Cataphractii are for Legions that don't have their own Elite Melee Terminators.
Yeah I've got the same problem. All the advice I've seen on the Dark Angels discords is not to take regular terminators and just bring 10 Inner Circle Knights. So I can spend $230 and buy from Forgeworld or try and find some decent looking 2-hand swords and kitbash my AoD box set Cataphractii.
Another great video, thanks! Good to shout out the utility of chainfists vs. dreadnoughts - the reroll to wound S8 vs. T7 (or T8 on the Lev) is great, although Terminator elites at WS5 really shine here. A question regarding transporting Cataphractii in Proteus Carriers (or MKIIb Land Raiders). I believe the army list states you can only take this option if the squad numbers 5 models - which is silly given the capacity of 6. Has this been amended in thr errata?
Actually no now you mention it, I think I just forgot about it! The points still hold for five man units Though, the sixth man in the recommended loadouts is really just an optional extra.
I think Power Sword is fine against marines if play take them as DA and make them to a Deathwing as a unit of five. You get keep their ability to shot which I think important. Because Shooting back reaction is strong and if they are terminator cata are so slow. Or if make them to a bigger unit rest models take TH, PF or CF to cover their weakness.
Hello. Great video. How do you rate Larneans? They're 250 pts as opposed to 200 points. So no granade launcher, no thunder hammer, are they worth the extra 50 points just for the line rule? Or should I stick to regular Cataphractii as an alpha legion player?
I really like them. Although they are a little expensive, line terminators can't be underestimated if you play objective based missions. They seem worse than they are because some legions get line special troops that are so undercosted (eg Suzerains) but even so, I wouldnt write them off. I have 2k points of AL I'll probably never assemble but it includes a unit of Lerneans!
Are you gonna do one for Tartoros Terminators. I know they slightly weaker than Cataphractii but they still do same damage output just they're more likely to death sooner than Cataphractii
Combi-meltas and Thunder Hammers. And there's 10 of them This is what I use for my Iron Warriors and they get the job done. Kinda wish the melta wasn't 1shot but what ever
@@Hearesy Yeah I only 1 squad of them cuz like you said they're expensive but have them with 1 job and one job only kill the enemy's HQs, may not be the most recommended job for them but people mostly put them with like Tactical Squads they rarely put them with hard hitting squads. Puss once they're done with that job (if they're not shoot or stabbed to death afterwards) depending on the what my mission is, go claim a objective and just stay there.
Due to the wording of the DT options, even though a Land Raider can fit 6 terminators, they can only take one as an option if they number 'no more than five'
If i was world eaters probably go with the “enhanced” loadout (some thunder hammers/CFs and a few ablative power axes). The basic power wep build is good too though. WE get better value from the hammers than most with their +1A
For a ZM Pride of the Legion list do you think a cheap squad of cataphractii are going to get more value than a squad of breachers with two graviton guns? Love these guides btw!
Personally I like Tartarus terminators for killing +3 saves. The ability to sweeping advance is a big deal. That and they move around the battle field much quicker.
On regular legion cataphractii terminators I prefer to keep them cheap since they lack the WS and BS to be truly scary and instead use them as a tough obstacle to shift, which frees up my elite terminators to go hunting.
What do you think of Solarite gauntlet, worth it over chainfist? Also i have a unit of 5 with 2 hammers, 2 axes, sol gauntlet and storm shields and another unit of 5 with hammer, axes, sol gauntlet, 2 combi-plasmas and iliastus. Are these units ok, and what would you change on them?
Building a squad of Morlocks and a squad of heavy flamer cats. Morlocks getting 1 chainfist, 2x power fists, 2x lightning claw. All with bolters. Heavy flamer with lightning claw, 2x power fist, 1 chainfist, 1 lightning claw. The load out will also be legal in 40k iron hands relic squads. Don't much care for dual lightning claws on a slow unit when it looks cooler on a jump pack squad.
If youre going to spend that you probably might as well just get firedrakes, but i do think 225 points of 3++ guys with power axes is still super good for sitting on things! Same goes for fists
Combi weapons minor with grenade launch is way better than people realise. Plus you can fire both options all the time. Suits iron warriors well also. 👌
If you're looking for a cheaper transport for a 10 man squad the Storm Eagle has almost the same transport capacity as a Spartan (22 instead of 26), deepstrikes, and costs about the same as a land raider (210 bare bones).
I totally agree with you. but sadly it boils down to keep em cheap. Which isn't very cool, because 10 Cataphracts with 2 Hvy Flamers and well 16 Lightning Claws is just sooooo cool. Sadly the Game doesn't support that route.
Correction - only up to 2 squads can gain Line in Pride of the Legion - only those selected as compulsory choices. Rest still will be without Line rule.
I don't quite agree about power weapons. A lance look way better than a mace to me, unless you somehow have rad grenades. There is a lot non-unwieldy scary weapons and some initiative 5 elite units; being faster or not slower than them is clearly more impactful, than +1 strength. Power axes are pretty useless now, everything that is 2+ also has 2 or more wounds. This one of the reasons, why red butchers are the worst legion terminators now. Power swords, despite low strength, are still good enough to fight tactical marines, you don't need maces or lances to deal with them, while rending 6+ gives you at least some chance against tougher units. And about giving a thunder hammer to the sergeant: +1 attack might be good, but you'll probably lose him in a challenge before he attacks.
@@Hearesy True but wished they could take the same weapons as a normal Cataphractii Terminator Squad. Like come on only Power Fists, Chainfists, Lighting Claws and Combi-bolters
Come back! We miss you.
I would love to hear your take on other patterns of terminator armor as well!
Nice video, the WS4 is what steered me away from this unit and instead I run mine as a terminator command squad. The combi-flamers are a great shout, it's amazing what you can accidentally skip over and demonstrates the value of videos like this - another set of eyes do wonders!
Command squads are ace! And thank you
Combi Flamers are especially great with Salamanders, since you can effectively give the whole squad Heavy Flamers, and a squad of 5 will likely get ignored as a target for your opponents big guns, since they've 'just' got short range Flamers.
Great analysis. One house rule that I request pre-game and my opponents usually agree with is that if the unit can take a Land Raider Proteus Carrier as a dedicated transport, they can also take a Land Raider Mk IIB as such. The Mark IIB has the exact same data sheet as the Proteus carrier, same cost and roughly the same footprint. If you have a Mark IIB, feel free to use it as a Proteus Carrier. You can even squadron one up with an actual Proteus Carrier model.
Seems fair to me
@@Hearesy It also has the same options and cost for such. For all intents and purposes, a Mk IIB *is* a Proteus Carrier.
Yep. I doubt most people would not agree!
@@wulfbak I come to roll dice and have fun. Proxy whatever you want and let's roll some dice! - that's my mantra for HH.
I would be pretty unenthused to play against people who cannot accept a proxy or a 3d print...
@@Mickem91 yeah, as long as it's similar and in the spirit
Your videos have been such a phenominal resource for me just getting in to 30k, thank you so much!
Appreciate the info, coming from 40K I wasn't sure exactly what I needed to be doing with my Cataphractii given their WS4 and didn't want to make them too expensive. The clarity of "this specifically is what they're built to do" is very helpful!
I'd probably still consider going with the power fist over power axe by default. For the same effect of striking at Initiative 1, you may as well get your points worth out of Instant Death vs marines on top of AP2, and if you're feeling plucky you can always substitute a chainfist or two for some boosted anti-armour capability. As for the thunder hammer, you're taking it more for Brutal (2) than you are for anti-armour.
As for ranged, that depends on the legion. For instance, you might get some use out of a Dragon's Breath Heavy Flamer or two out of a Salamanders cataphractii squad as a unit that's intending to charge what they just shot at anyway, but the investment to do so requires careful set-up of both force composition, deployment and positioning to pull it off well. As you pointed out, these guys kind of need that Land Raider to bring them into charge range, especially given certain deployment set-ups that may force you to fight up the long edge of a table - the game will likely end before they've crossed no-man's land otherwise - and ideally you'd want to bait out your opponent's Movement phase reactions before committing. This also influences how large of a squad you can use as well, since Terminator squads cannot be assigned a Land Raider Proteus if they have more than 5 models before attached independent characters.
My best guess as to whether volkite chargers or combi-bolters are worth taking is entirely dependent on whether you fancy your chances of wounding the target (+deflagrate) vs being able to re-roll failed hits. Like you said, this is more of a melee-oriented unit, so the maximum range of either isn't really going to be much of a consideration when they're lining up for a charge, and they both have the same chance to inflict an initial wound on a marine per shot.
Thanks again bruv. Very helpful, this saved me from building units and me being frustrated with why they weren't performing on the tabletop. Cheers
Great video, I made 5 as double claws and have been debating what to do with the other 5. This was helpful, thank you
I did the same, Power Fists with my second lot of 5, Power Fists are really good for bullying other non-elite terminators thanks to Instant Death and AP2 at a very reasonable price per model.
Ah that answers that. Your videos are just superb, it can sometimes be a little confusing how to build units in HH and I like a good kit bash. Just picked up the box set to add to my Ultras force so thinking I grab a pack of 5 power axes from forge world. And some missile launchers from somewhere and magnetize them for use as Fulmentarus. 5 axes, maybe 2 sword for ablative wounds, 2 chainfist, See if I can find a cpl of other power weapons in my bits box....I already have 3 with TH and 2 with dual Lightning Claws so I reckon that's the way forward to give me the biggest choice from the 15 figures.
Really appreciate the information, working on my Iron Warriors armoured company - command squad, Dominators, Tyrant Siege and cataphractii, all in land raiders and Spartan
This definitely reinforces how I was planning to run Termies, at least my non-Legion specific ones (Deathshrouds and Grave Wardens).
Really happy that the 10 terminators I built years ago when Betrayal at Calth came out actually have a decent loadout with mostly power axes, a couple of heavy flamers and chainfists.
Sounds ideal to me!
@@Hearesy awesome, they're the only unit I've actually painted too, ha ha.
I'm a fan of loading them up with power mace/combi volkite or single lightning claw/combi volkite being able to dump 4 shits into a unit at 12" is pretty fun
I would make use of tanks and heavy support squads to provide fire support for the Terminators and Tactical squads. The Lightning Claws and Power weapons are great options for them.
Great video! I have just been building an 8 man squad with a mix of chainfists and power fists plus a thunder hammer, given me food for thought here for sure.
Once again exactly what I needed to hear at exactly the right time!
It’s the little cameras i put in every 30k hobbyist’s hobby rooms…
I feel you under-sell Power fists a bit, for 10 points getting AP 2 and instant death on anything toughness 4 or bellow make them an amazing choice in terminator vs terminator fights. Power Axes are nice given you can get them for free, but 2 wound terminators being killed in one hit is well worth the extra investment.
Although perhaps I’m a bit Biased, I play Alpha Legion, and the power axes on my Learnians often just frustrate me cos they don’t kill terminators fast enough.
Thank you for a good advice video. I was struggling with this unit's weapons option. Could you do a similar thing to the Tartaros Terminators and maybe compare the strength and weaknesses of both of those units?
Best heresy content out there! Hope to see something for thw other terminator armors
Great stuff. Thank you
I’m new to heresy but I have seen some Videos of the old game where people play shattered legion formation of multiple legions. Is that still a thing or are we expecting to be able to run the Warmasters madman horde in a supplement perhaps
i will say two combi weapon to take for a unit is volkite and flamers or nad luncher
Great video, thanks.
You just saved me from building 20 terminators with all kind of expensive weapons.
A question regarding the Equipment : - Augury scanner : Even as an IF player I wouldn't take it only because of it's Nightfights benefits, as for Bolters it makes no difference, but with Kheres or other long-range weapon.... But wouldn't you take one because of it's capabilities to avoid nasty surprises ( infiltration within 18") and enhanced reaction, especially when the Caties are tasked with objective sittin. - Nuncio Vox : wouldn't it be beneficial for Caties with Grenade-Launchers if they could re-roll scatter dies for the templates and , on a side note, avoiding the -1 Penalty on Leadership during Nightfights ? - Vexilla : yes , save the points for a better P-Weapon...although..these Vexillas look very cool...😉
Scanner, Its still not a lot of guns even for IF so probably not worth the 10pts.
Vox could be good for that yes!
@@Hearesy True. and what do you think about the infiltratio and enhanced reaction ? No worth in it ? All the best, Stefan
That part is good but generally you’ll have it elsewhere in your force. Its certainly a legitimate reason to take it though if you dont have it elsewhere!
I like the idea of keeping them in that sweet spot where they're too cheap to pay attention to, but they're too durable to ignore. I've been focusing on building out tartaros termies since I can equip them with 3++ vigil storm shields, but this is something new to think about. How do you feel about loading them with solarite gauntlets? S10 AP1 so they're a legitimate vehicle threat, give more Istant Death opportunity, and hit into dreads better for 15 points - same as a thunderhammer but no brutal. I've got a 5-man Huscarl squad with these (my local meta treats the pdfs the same level as the Libers) and they do a lot of killing. I've 5 more terminators to build and I'm tempted to kit them out similarly with a lot of solar gauntlets but I'm not sure the return on killing power can justify the point investment. The solar gauntlets are cheaper for the huscarls but 15pts is a lot for regular termies. As ever, great video!
Being WS5 or having other rules wildly changes the maths so a lot of the advice in this video doesnt really apply to huscarls etc. For regular catas, id treat solarites the same way I treat hammers in this video.
And thanks as ever!
I've gone for 10 Deathwing cataphractii with power swords in a Spartan - not the most competitive but absolutely worth it for the fluff (plus it'll help balance out the 5 Inner Circle and various other terranic greatswords I have scattered about). In my Pride of the Legion list their job is to butcher their way onto an objective and then hold it forever
Sounds good! And power swords definitely better at +1 to hit
How did you get all those swords? Im thinking of doing the same:)
@@GreatGenus The arms were the hardest part to source, I just sucked it up and bought two FW weapon sets that include Cataphractii arms and used those
The swords are a mix from all over - the new MkVI kit, MkIII kit, Deathwatch Veterans, Ravenwing upgrade sprue, Assault Intercessors, plus the one that actually comes with the Cataphractii. I had them all lying around in my bits collection so it was no problem
@@legatenaarifin Ambitious! Got any photos?
@@legatenaarifin nice! very cool
For someone who made 8 according to your AoD box video =/ The big problem with the AoD box as well as the reboxed HH kit (same sprues) is that you don't get the arms to make squads with power axes or maces. Adding on extra expenses to make a unit "efficient" just feels bad.
The lightning claws are fine if youre not trying to heavily optimise, and they ARE decent weapons. If youve already got some, get a few with axes/maces too and you can mix to make them more efficient!
But yes, frustrating how expensive the power weps they literally come with are. 3d printing or 3rd party is good though!
what about IF assault cannons on cataphractii, replaces a heavy flamer
Personally this is my jam, a 10 man cataphractii squad with two iastrus cannons with the rest in melee and storm shields.
@@TheAlterspark i've got 10 like that and i'm doing 10 more with shields and power swords as Huscarls to go with Dorn
What are your thoughts on the Grav Mace for Cataphractii in Iron Warriors lists?
Only characters can have them i believe, otherwise a unit full of them would have been very scary!
RIP. You are correct, they are locked to Characters and Dreadnoughts only.
I think the main reason people overlook Combi-Grenade Launchers is getting the grenade launcher part of the combi frame. Iirc FW used to have 2 frames of combi weapons, one had plas, flamer and melta and the other had volkite and GLs, but I believe they were discontinued.
I'd like to see your thoughts on the Red Butchers unit
Nice analysis. I'm curious if you would hold to similar guidelines for a terminator command squad?
Not at all, no! The WS5 and banner tranforms the unit into something else. Go as crazy as you like with upgrades on those, they’re worth it!
@@Hearesy Cool. Now to decide what to give my Dark Angels command squad.
Now this is technically still a Cataphractii Terminator, but if you turn these into a Cataphractii Command Squad, would you still recommend a few "good" weapons and most as standard to keep costs down, or would you say invest here cause WS5?
Go as crazy as you want with command squads! My tartaros command squad has 3 thunder hammers and 2 guys with axes, but could easily just be 5 hammers. Having some “ablative” wounds is still good general advice but i prefer my command squads uber :)
@@Hearesy yeah, I am sitting on 3 hammers and 2x LC's with mine.
Trying to come up with a good way to run these has been the most annoying part of listbuilding for me. Any cheap option just ends with "But then I don't want to spend points on a Land Raider, and now they're so slow I want Tartaros instead". Any expensive option ends with "Now I might as well use Firedrakes instead", especially when Firedrakes get cheaper Hammers and Shields. Might just be a Salamander thing but it feels like regular Cataphractii are for Legions that don't have their own Elite Melee Terminators.
Yeah I've got the same problem. All the advice I've seen on the Dark Angels discords is not to take regular terminators and just bring 10 Inner Circle Knights. So I can spend $230 and buy from Forgeworld or try and find some decent looking 2-hand swords and kitbash my AoD box set Cataphractii.
Hay hearasy could you cover blood angel's at some point please love your video really helps me out with building awsome hh lists
Great video, love your channel. Need more heresy content!
Thank you!
Another great video, thanks!
Good to shout out the utility of chainfists vs. dreadnoughts - the reroll to wound S8 vs. T7 (or T8 on the Lev) is great, although Terminator elites at WS5 really shine here.
A question regarding transporting Cataphractii in Proteus Carriers (or MKIIb Land Raiders). I believe the army list states you can only take this option if the squad numbers 5 models - which is silly given the capacity of 6. Has this been amended in thr errata?
Actually no now you mention it, I think I just forgot about it! The points still hold for five man units Though, the sixth man in the recommended loadouts is really just an optional extra.
@@Hearesy I kinda wish they'd errata this so you can do it with sixes 😂
Yeh. At least you can get 5 and a character though!
@@Hearesy Indeed, this is my strat to make my Justaerian work - put them in big, tough, scary tanks with an officer!
you ever going to upload again?
I have a unit of 5 with double lightning claws and a dreadclaw assault pod, 340 points drop them in the back line to take out any HSS or the like.
EC catraphractii are super scary for opponents terminators. Getting the charge off making you in 2 with their power fists/chain fists is nasty.
I think Power Sword is fine against marines if play take them as DA and make them to a Deathwing as a unit of five. You get keep their ability to shot which I think important. Because Shooting back reaction is strong and if they are terminator cata are so slow. Or if make them to a bigger unit rest models take TH, PF or CF to cover their weakness.
Hello. Great video. How do you rate Larneans? They're 250 pts as opposed to 200 points. So no granade launcher, no thunder hammer, are they worth the extra 50 points just for the line rule? Or should I stick to regular Cataphractii as an alpha legion player?
I really like them. Although they are a little expensive, line terminators can't be underestimated if you play objective based missions. They seem worse than they are because some legions get line special troops that are so undercosted (eg Suzerains) but even so, I wouldnt write them off. I have 2k points of AL I'll probably never assemble but it includes a unit of Lerneans!
Are you gonna do one for Tartoros Terminators. I know they slightly weaker than Cataphractii but they still do same damage output just they're more likely to death sooner than Cataphractii
You want to how I know that, cuz sometimes I replace my Cataphractii Terminators with Tartoros Terminators instead with the same loadout as them
Combi-meltas and Thunder Hammers. And there's 10 of them
This is what I use for my Iron Warriors and they get the job done. Kinda wish the melta wasn't 1shot but what ever
Thats a killer squad!
@@Hearesy Yeah I only 1 squad of them cuz like you said they're expensive but have them with 1 job and one job only kill the enemy's HQs, may not be the most recommended job for them but people mostly put them with like Tactical Squads they rarely put them with hard hitting squads.
Puss once they're done with that job (if they're not shoot or stabbed to death afterwards) depending on the what my mission is, go claim a objective and just stay there.
is this HH2.0? I cant find the wargear options in the Liber astartes to be able to put a Thunder hammer on the sargents or to use Power Axes?
Yep, 2.0.
Due to the wording of the DT options, even though a Land Raider can fit 6 terminators, they can only take one as an option if they number 'no more than five'
Do you think Cataphractii have a place in a World Easters army? What would the best load out be in your eyes from the one's you've listed?
From a fluff pov absolutely, Angrons body guard where Cataphractii terminators and they get mentioned a few times in the books
If i was world eaters probably go with the “enhanced” loadout (some thunder hammers/CFs and a few ablative power axes). The basic power wep build is good too though.
WE get better value from the hammers than most with their +1A
My alpha legion has a 5man squad, 1 heavy flamer, 1 combi flamer, maces and a thunder hammer on the sergeant. 200p for a line breaker
For a ZM Pride of the Legion list do you think a cheap squad of cataphractii are going to get more value than a squad of breachers with two graviton guns? Love these guides btw!
Also is it just me or does the MkVI power fist seem to be very small compared to the normal ones?
I love your channel!!!
Yo hearesy, you still making videos?
Anyone know where this man's gone?
Personally I like Tartarus terminators for killing +3 saves. The ability to sweeping advance is a big deal. That and they move around the battle field much quicker.
I like them too, but the vid is about cataphractii!
@@Hearesy When do the Tartaros lads get their vid?
I mostly use cataphracto as bodygaurds for my preator and convert them intowarsmiths seige breakers and other iron warrior themed consuls
Like small grouo 4 and the sargant cinverted into a consul or preator
Probley going to mix fist and lighting claws. Maybe a hvy flamer. It's cheap ish in points and in real world money Its cheap aswell
On regular legion cataphractii terminators I prefer to keep them cheap since they lack the WS and BS to be truly scary and instead use them as a tough obstacle to shift, which frees up my elite terminators to go hunting.
Tartaros follow the same general guidelines?
Pretty much yep.
For my Sekhmet Terminators, I normally field eight 10x man squads with 6 force axes, 2 force mauls, and 2 chain fists.
What do you think of Solarite gauntlet, worth it over chainfist? Also i have a unit of 5 with 2 hammers, 2 axes, sol gauntlet and storm shields and another unit of 5 with hammer, axes, sol gauntlet, 2 combi-plasmas and iliastus. Are these units ok, and what would you change on them?
I think solarite occupies the same “space” as a thunder hammer in this video. Dont take too many.
Mate please do one of these for legion veterans!
Building a squad of Morlocks and a squad of heavy flamer cats. Morlocks getting 1 chainfist, 2x power fists, 2x lightning claw. All with bolters. Heavy flamer with lightning claw, 2x power fist, 1 chainfist, 1 lightning claw. The load out will also be legal in 40k iron hands relic squads. Don't much care for dual lightning claws on a slow unit when it looks cooler on a jump pack squad.
Do you think that dragonscale stormshields are worth giving them (10 pts/model)? if so, would you suggest keeping them cheap with power axes/maces?
I think that you're better of with firedrakes if you go shield and hammer, without hammer im not 100% sure :)
If youre going to spend that you probably might as well just get firedrakes, but i do think 225 points of 3++ guys with power axes is still super good for sitting on things! Same goes for fists
Combi weapons minor with grenade launch is way better than people realise. Plus you can fire both options all the time. Suits iron warriors well also. 👌
If you're looking for a cheaper transport for a 10 man squad the Storm Eagle has almost the same transport capacity as a Spartan (22 instead of 26), deepstrikes, and costs about the same as a land raider (210 bare bones).
counterpoint to your point about not taking the reaper autocannon: the reaper autocannon looks sick
Excellent counterpoint and the reason I use them on mine too! Haha
I totally agree with you.
but sadly it boils down to keep em cheap.
Which isn't very cool, because 10 Cataphracts with 2 Hvy Flamers and well 16 Lightning Claws is just sooooo cool.
Sadly the Game doesn't support that route.
Now if only you could get these combi-weapons without needing a mortgage!
Correction - only up to 2 squads can gain Line in Pride of the Legion - only those selected as compulsory choices. Rest still will be without Line rule.
I didnt say anything other than this, I just mentioned them being line!
New episode soon?
Where are you at?
I like 4x Volkite Chargers, 1x Blasma Blaster, 4x Power Fists & 1x Chainfist. Thats my current lineup anyway.
Can we get a video on the storm eagle and fire raptor?
I don't quite agree about power weapons. A lance look way better than a mace to me, unless you somehow have rad grenades. There is a lot non-unwieldy scary weapons and some initiative 5 elite units; being faster or not slower than them is clearly more impactful, than +1 strength.
Power axes are pretty useless now, everything that is 2+ also has 2 or more wounds. This one of the reasons, why red butchers are the worst legion terminators now.
Power swords, despite low strength, are still good enough to fight tactical marines, you don't need maces or lances to deal with them, while rending 6+ gives you at least some chance against tougher units.
And about giving a thunder hammer to the sergeant: +1 attack might be good, but you'll probably lose him in a challenge before he attacks.
Solarite power gauntlets and an assault cannon for my fists
Would you say that everything you stated applies to Tartaros? I've brainfarted and traded my Cataphractii for Tartaros :|
Pretty much yes. They’re just a bit faster and a bit less tough but more or less you can apply the same. Tartaros episode coming in future though!
@@Hearesy Hi there, would an Axe of Perdition on a Tartaros Sgt only cost 5pts? (Terminator Power Weapon 0pts + Perdition Weapon 5pts) Cheers.
Dual lightning claws x10 and a Spartan = Threshing machine.
Better with Tartaros.
Ive played against this 3 times and not once have they made it to combat. I dont actually think its very good for its points :(
My load out was to give up and use inner circle knights 😂
Am half tempted to that so I can have Tyrant Siege Terminators
“I gave up and used the best unit in the game instead” seems like a good option :)
@@Hearesy True the only reason you would bring a Tyrant Siege Terminators is they're cyclone missile launcher
Siege Tyrants are also excellent
@@Hearesy True but wished they could take the same weapons as a normal Cataphractii Terminator Squad. Like come on only Power Fists, Chainfists, Lighting Claws and Combi-bolters
Algorythm
Double claws for 8th legion no matter what
I fall i to this trap evwry bloody time wiith Cataphractii, "oh ill just stick this in, or that, or this" 5-600 points later 🤮
Please...
I used Terminator sqauds for a while, but I've started using Huscarl squads w Solarite Power Gauntlets. They hit like a truck and are tougher to kill.
All the heresy content slowly going by the wayside 🥲
Does anyone know why he isn't uploading?
Heard he hasn't been well but is there any updates?
Maybe he’s trying to find something to talk about? There’s only so many tactics
Not everyone is crazy like Auspex tactics, sometimes you just need a break
I uploaded 5 videos a couple of weeks ago and ive been away working for a couple of weeks!