I picked Autocannons for mostly aesthetic purposes, they've always been solid but unremarkable weapons as well. Seems like they may be a bit better than usual in 2.0. While we're already talking Heavy Support squads, I wish they had introduced a Graviton option in 2.0. I think a heavy support weapon is one of the only places where we miss the option for them, at least to me it's the place I notice their exclusion the most.
I'm just getting into HH and after reading and gluing some models I come to realize how one needs to be informed when it comes to building an army. Didn't go into this realizing that all the guns have to be purchased seperately to make up squads. Still loving it though. Got my Sons of Horus comin along.
Glad to hear that Volkite Culverins work in multiple roles and are actually good. Because the way they look and the way they are carried makes a squad of Marines with them look really awesome. And they come in the same box as the lascannons, the other great weapon option!
Really enjoying your videos! Hard to find good informational videos out here without some sort of drama or weirdness creeping in. Keep up the great work
Still on the fence about taking a 3rd heavy weapon squad. The Kratos with flashburn shells, volkites, flare shield, searchlight and pintle havoc with a techmarine standing next to it seems like a better 3rd heavy slot. Missile launchers are my personal choice for the versatility/ anti air for the heavy support squads but 20 is overkill with augury scanners. The only lascannon I might take is on the Contemptor with helical targetting array. For the real anti tank I'll spam 3 x rhinos with pintle multimeltas and a deep striking land speeder proteus with a multi melta. Already have the Proteus model before you tell me how useless it is but the mark 6 crew are really cute ;)
One thing I've learned about missile launchers is that even though Krak Missiles can get around the Heavy sub-type's ability to re-roll failed saves against blast and template weapons, 10 Frag Missiles are still pretty effective against other marines through sheer wound saturation when the 3" blasts hit their mark. Naturally, just like with any other blast weapon, nuncio-voxes are your friend for that re-roll to scatter. I currently run a squad of 10 in my Salamanders lists with missile launchers and an armistos, and being able to not only use the augury scanner without sacrificing a missile shot but also effectively shoot at BS5 is a godsend. I'd argue that the armistos is a better fit with them than the siege breaker (Sunder can be pretty effective when shooting at vehicles), though your mileage may vary.
If you shoot 10 frag missile templates at me and scatter with rerolls for each one and don't even wipe the squad, I'm going to beat you to death with a resin spartan.
This is the first list I'm reasonably happy with. It's a 3k list but it can start at 1500 and then there are 3 x 500 point add-on blocks. Posting it here because it's relevant to the video and your vids are awesome! Raven Guard Loyalist 3k 'balanced' army HQ Praetor - cameleoline, archaeotech pistol, thunder hammer +Legion command squad - 1 standard bearer, 7 Legion chosen - power weapon x 5 HQ Master of Signals - cameleoline HQ Legion Consul Chaplain - bolt pistol, master crafted power axe, cameleoline Elite Techmarine Elite 2 x apothecaries - minor combi weapon (one combi flamer, one combi grenade launcher) Troops Legion Tactical squad (10) chain bayonet, nuncio vox, vexilla, sgt - powerfist Rhino - pintle mounted multimelta, searchlight Troops Legion Despoiler squad (20) nuncio vox, vexilla, power weapon x 4, heavy chainsword x 5, sgt - hand flamer Troops Tactical support squad (5) volkite charger Troops Legion Scout squad (10) bolt pistol, chainsword, sgt - hand flamer, powersword FA Land Speeder Proteus - multimelta FA Land Speeder Proteus - volkite culverin FA Dark Furies (10) chooser of the Slain x 2 (290 pts) HS Legion Heavy Support squad - missile launchers, augury scanner, nuncio vox Rhino - pintle mounted multimelta, searchlights HS Legion Heavy Support squad - lascannons, augury scanner, nuncio vox Rhino - pintle mounted multimelta, searchlights HS Legion Kratos - flashburn shells, flare shield, searchlights, hull - volkite culverins, sponson - volkite calivers, pintle mounted havoc launcher ---- 3000 Chaplain goes with the despoilers and the land speeders and dark furies deep strike, hopefully aided by the nuncio voxes.
I'm quite glad one of the heavy weapons upgrade boxes has both Volkie Culverins and Lascannons in it, thinking about doing a 10-man squad of both. Also got the special weapons box though so planning on at least a rotorcannon squad and maybe some melta guys. Not decided yet. It's crazy how I originally thought "how on earth am I gonna use 40 tactical marines?" And now with a 20-man tac squad, 2 converted 5-man recon squads, 10 Lascannon and 10 Volkites I'm probably gonna have to go get some more now.
On weapon break down videos I would like to see the stats of the weapons alongside the commentary, just so I'm not reaching for my rulebook while watching the video. Really enjoying the content so far
Definitely tossing up with these - especially since I'm playing Death Guard (well as army #1) and Grave Wardens sound like they're a solid option in the Heavy slot.
Everybody can take them, so I dont think its dirty. Also they cant return fire very well at vehicles or dreadnoughts so if you have a mixed list you can counter them. I think theyre fine!
@@Hearesy Dreads are a relatively good answer to them, yeah, although still not exactly safe (chips off 2-3 wounds pretty reliably) but heavy armour shuts them down completely indeed. Maybe they've just overperformed so far, I'll have to play them some more to see. xD Last game they ravaged a Mhara Gal and vapourised Lorgar.
Under 2 wounds off a dread on average with 10 volkites at max size - pretty safe! Yeh they are obviously good of course or i wouldnt recommend them. But everyone can use them and you dont have to spam them, so i think theyre strong but fine!
I've been using a 10 man auto cannon squad as Death Guard. Our Creeping Death rite of war requires a Siege Breaker and so I put mine with the auto cannons and now they get sunder, lol.
Great discussion as usual. Really love how you present things. This had given me a lot to think about. Will you be looking at the Tactical Support Squads in the same depth? Heard a lot of bad things about them Would like to hear your opinion. Thanks
@@Hearesy Great video. What would you recommend for Sons of Horus as a way to be authentic since they are an assault Faction and what are the Special and Heavy weapon profiles (range, AP, strength ect) since the new books only list their points, unless I am missing something as I am only seeing other weapon profiles listed where necessary.
No mention of the assault cannon for Blood Angel heavy support units? Assault 4 with rending 6+? A rhino full of brrrrrt zipping across the battlefield?
@@Hearesy I was going to ask the same question. Good to see you'll be covering it. I just had my first HH2 game the other night and ran an HS squad with Iliastus assault cannons and they're great. Infantry deleters but also decent against dreadnoughts. Drop Alexis Polux in along with a Castellan -- deep strike, rip ass, and score. It's a good combo (based on my sample size of one game, but still...). Great video man. Really dig what you're doing here.
Great video! I do wonder if the culverin needs to go up in points cost for how versatile it is.. Looking forward to hear your thoughts on special weapons!
Really enjoying your tactic videos! Have you had a chance to look and compare the EC sunkiller squad vs a lascannon heavy support squad with a armistos or something? Regarding cost wise etc! A mathhammer check on this would be greatly appreciated!
The sun killers got hurt by the HH1.0 version of the rules being copy/pasted in without any editing, the +40 points per extra model is too high and based of HH1.0 lascannon costs and the augury scanner being 20 pts rather than 10pts like it is on other units. They still need to get over the night fighting debuffs in turn 1 by either taking an armistos (~75pts), techmarine (~75pts), or by giving the sgt the augury scanner (20pts) and the sub-sonic pulser augment (20pts).
Great video! I think the biggest winner is the multi melta with the move to a new edition. If you have a way to infiltrate them or you're up against an aggressive opponent they can really deny a large portion of the board! Isn't there a consul that gives scout/infiltrate?
Yes, but buried in the IC rules is “infiltrators cant join non-infiltrator units” which basically stops the pathfinder from… pathfinding :/ That said, most heresy missions are very “midboard” so i think people will often come to you anyway! Certainly all those Terminators in Spartans will…
What are your thoughts on equipping a vet tac squad with a las cannon, perhaps supported with nemesis bolters as an alternative to 5 man support and/or seeker squad options? Very new to HH and perhaps more interested in the model making, converting and lore rather than competitive play. Cheers - liked & subbed.
I dont find rules of autocanon in my Liber hereticus. There are different autocanon. Which one is the right for infantery ? The only Who is not "jumeled" ?
Unfortunately I’m the case of death guard their legion trait has a special exception for getting out of vehicles so things like multi meltas will still be snap firing after disembarking
Regarding the Death Guard comment on Meltas being able to hop out a rhino and shoot them, swear it says in the rule that lets DG move and count as stationary it says that you can't hop out of a transport and count as stationary?
Hi, I have five marines left and can either equip them as a support squad with rotor cannons or as a heavy squad with heavy bolters. Was thinking of giving them the heavy bolters since they will have more firepower, but I’m reconsidering based on your video. Any advice?
@@Hearesy One reason I’m still on the fence is that a squad of five heavy bolters will (on average) force a small squad of space marines to take a morale check with one attack while the rotor cannons will likely force a pinning check but with fewer casualties. Of course, if you’re up against a 13+ man squad, then the heavy bolter likely won’t force any kind of morale checks. Also, I’m thinking that heavy bolters could possibly do a wound or two of damage to terminators and can (theoretically) wound dreadnoughts as well.
I'm new to Horus Heresy and am doing Death Guard using MK3 armour. How easy are the new weapon kits to use on the older marines? Can you add a bit of green stuff and hide gaps with shoulder pads? Cheers
Frag is better VS large squads of marines. 20 dudes is a large target and its easy to get 5 hits per blast templet. 10 frag x 5 hits per = 50 hits. plus pinning. with a vox you can reroll the scatter dice.
Gotta say it, but hard disagree on the verdict for heavy bolters ESPECIALLY for Imperial Fists. For points to effectiveness, a squad of 10 IF Heavy Support squads are going to be putting out 40 shots, hitting on 2s, wounding marines and terminators on 3s. That's basically your opponent picking up 14 models out of a squad of 20 tactical marines in one round of shooting. For 175 points? You've already paid for yourself and basically neutered and/or removed an entire enemy unit in 1 round. Price to effectiveness, HB are a very solid choice if you play imperial fists. Additionally, you can a castellan in with them and now you have a unit with line and another 5 heavy bolter shots on top of that.
That kills 7 models, not 14. Volkite would kill 11-12 after Deflegrate. Plus Volkite is better vs anything with a higher toughness value like dreads, javelins, etc. And they have 9” more range. And have more calue out of an augury scanner. Its like a 60% effectiveness increase plus other benefits for under 30% extra cost. No contest! Id argue theres no good mechanical reason to run HBs in Fists. They do certainly look cool and add some variety though!
@@HearesyYou're correct! I mathed badly. However Volkite's also gonna cost you another 50 points. 225 is starting to get pricy for a squad of 10 dudes in power armor considering they can't get any of the helpful survivability things like Heart of the Legion. Add in another 20 points because you'll likely want an augury scanner and vox, you're looking at an 8th of your list on 10 guys of questionable staying power. I guess at the end of the day its a cost vs benefit thing for me. I don't think there's enough justification to invest that many points into a squad that can get crippled with only moderate effort. However, I do completely agree with you that HBs could really use something like pinning tacked on to their rules to give them a little more sparkle considering most other heavy weapons have some other additional fire mode, or special rule associated with them.
Slowly ticking off your heresy videos one by one. I've set a heresy merseyside Facebook page up because there wasn't one. Trying to create a connected merseyside heresy gaming community so myself and others can connect and play.
I picked Autocannons for mostly aesthetic purposes, they've always been solid but unremarkable weapons as well. Seems like they may be a bit better than usual in 2.0. While we're already talking Heavy Support squads, I wish they had introduced a Graviton option in 2.0. I think a heavy support weapon is one of the only places where we miss the option for them, at least to me it's the place I notice their exclusion the most.
Play Iron Warriors and enjoy s8 on those autocannons against vehicles!
😅
I'm just getting into HH and after reading and gluing some models I come to realize how one needs to be informed when it comes to building an army. Didn't go into this realizing that all the guns have to be purchased seperately to make up squads. Still loving it though. Got my Sons of Horus comin along.
Glad to hear that Volkite Culverins work in multiple roles and are actually good. Because the way they look and the way they are carried makes a squad of Marines with them look really awesome. And they come in the same box as the lascannons, the other great weapon option!
Really enjoying your videos! Hard to find good informational videos out here without some sort of drama or weirdness creeping in. Keep up the great work
Still on the fence about taking a 3rd heavy weapon squad. The Kratos with flashburn shells, volkites, flare shield, searchlight and pintle havoc with a techmarine standing next to it seems like a better 3rd heavy slot.
Missile launchers are my personal choice for the versatility/ anti air for the heavy support squads but 20 is overkill with augury scanners.
The only lascannon I might take is on the Contemptor with helical targetting array. For the real anti tank I'll spam 3 x rhinos with pintle multimeltas and a deep striking land speeder proteus with a multi melta. Already have the Proteus model before you tell me how useless it is but the mark 6 crew are really cute ;)
Culverins going to 5 shots when they might have been the best option in 1.0 is just insane.
Fantastic video! I was considering using Volkite Culverins, but not having played 30k before I wasn't sure about them. You have made up my mind!
Brilliant episode, really informative. Got me re-thinking some choices. Keep it up chum.
One thing I've learned about missile launchers is that even though Krak Missiles can get around the Heavy sub-type's ability to re-roll failed saves against blast and template weapons, 10 Frag Missiles are still pretty effective against other marines through sheer wound saturation when the 3" blasts hit their mark. Naturally, just like with any other blast weapon, nuncio-voxes are your friend for that re-roll to scatter.
I currently run a squad of 10 in my Salamanders lists with missile launchers and an armistos, and being able to not only use the augury scanner without sacrificing a missile shot but also effectively shoot at BS5 is a godsend. I'd argue that the armistos is a better fit with them than the siege breaker (Sunder can be pretty effective when shooting at vehicles), though your mileage may vary.
If you shoot 10 frag missile templates at me and scatter with rerolls for each one and don't even wipe the squad, I'm going to beat you to death with a resin spartan.
Aha! I've been looking forward to your next video... Now I have something to listen to while I work.
This is the first list I'm reasonably happy with. It's a 3k list but it can start at 1500 and then there are 3 x 500 point add-on blocks.
Posting it here because it's relevant to the video and your vids are awesome!
Raven Guard Loyalist 3k 'balanced' army
HQ
Praetor - cameleoline, archaeotech pistol, thunder hammer
+Legion command squad - 1 standard bearer, 7 Legion chosen - power weapon x 5
HQ
Master of Signals - cameleoline
HQ
Legion Consul Chaplain - bolt pistol, master crafted power axe, cameleoline
Elite
Techmarine
Elite
2 x apothecaries - minor combi weapon (one combi flamer, one combi grenade launcher)
Troops
Legion Tactical squad (10) chain bayonet, nuncio vox, vexilla, sgt - powerfist
Rhino - pintle mounted multimelta, searchlight
Troops
Legion Despoiler squad (20) nuncio vox, vexilla, power weapon x 4, heavy chainsword x 5, sgt - hand flamer
Troops
Tactical support squad (5) volkite charger
Troops
Legion Scout squad (10) bolt pistol, chainsword, sgt - hand flamer, powersword
FA
Land Speeder Proteus - multimelta
FA
Land Speeder Proteus - volkite culverin
FA
Dark Furies (10) chooser of the Slain x 2 (290 pts)
HS
Legion Heavy Support squad - missile launchers, augury scanner, nuncio vox
Rhino - pintle mounted multimelta, searchlights
HS
Legion Heavy Support squad - lascannons, augury scanner, nuncio vox
Rhino - pintle mounted multimelta, searchlights
HS
Legion Kratos - flashburn shells, flare shield, searchlights, hull - volkite culverins, sponson - volkite calivers, pintle mounted havoc launcher
----
3000
Chaplain goes with the despoilers and the land speeders and dark furies deep strike, hopefully aided by the nuncio voxes.
Forgot to add the power fist on the despoiler sgt..
I'm quite glad one of the heavy weapons upgrade boxes has both Volkie Culverins and Lascannons in it, thinking about doing a 10-man squad of both. Also got the special weapons box though so planning on at least a rotorcannon squad and maybe some melta guys. Not decided yet. It's crazy how I originally thought "how on earth am I gonna use 40 tactical marines?" And now with a 20-man tac squad, 2 converted 5-man recon squads, 10 Lascannon and 10 Volkites I'm probably gonna have to go get some more now.
On weapon break down videos I would like to see the stats of the weapons alongside the commentary, just so I'm not reaching for my rulebook while watching the video. Really enjoying the content so far
Definitely tossing up with these - especially since I'm playing Death Guard (well as army #1) and Grave Wardens sound like they're a solid option in the Heavy slot.
Wow. Thanks for telling me what I can equip my Heavy Squads with! I didnt see it in the army listing...
Reading is good!
glad to see the culverin is up top, i just wanted to equip them for the look lol
Yeh its a double win!
Awesome, thank you!
Any thoughts on assualt cannons on a BA heavy support squad
My AL heavy squad are pure choom for Legion/Company aesthetic unity. Taking ten with the MoS as I have currently feels a little dirty, though...
Everybody can take them, so I dont think its dirty. Also they cant return fire very well at vehicles or dreadnoughts so if you have a mixed list you can counter them. I think theyre fine!
@@Hearesy Dreads are a relatively good answer to them, yeah, although still not exactly safe (chips off 2-3 wounds pretty reliably) but heavy armour shuts them down completely indeed.
Maybe they've just overperformed so far, I'll have to play them some more to see. xD Last game they ravaged a Mhara Gal and vapourised Lorgar.
Under 2 wounds off a dread on average with 10 volkites at max size - pretty safe!
Yeh they are obviously good of course or i wouldnt recommend them. But everyone can use them and you dont have to spam them, so i think theyre strong but fine!
I've been using a 10 man auto cannon squad as Death Guard. Our Creeping Death rite of war requires a Siege Breaker and so I put mine with the auto cannons and now they get sunder, lol.
Giving mine Aether Fire canons because of sweet sweet Tsons flavour.
What about the imperial fists consort who gives them line. Does that change any of your thoughts?
I think heavy bolters with Olympian frag shells may be worth a look in iron warriors for mass pinning
Yeh going from pointless AP to pointless AP is fine and the range reduction isnt bad as they have enough range. Shrapnel weapons in general are good.
Great content. Looking forward to more
Helpful Appreciate the slides.
Great discussion as usual. Really love how you present things. This had given me a lot to think about.
Will you be looking at the Tactical Support Squads in the same depth? Heard a lot of bad things about them Would like to hear your opinion.
Thanks
Cheers John. Probably, but yeh I agree, theyre a bit expensive!
@@Hearesy Great video. What would you recommend for Sons of Horus as a way to be authentic since they are an assault Faction and what are the Special and Heavy weapon profiles (range, AP, strength ect) since the new books only list their points, unless I am missing something as I am only seeing other weapon profiles listed where necessary.
I think all of the legions used everything so id take what you like - and back your assault units up with some guns!
As a new HH player, this was super helpful. are you going to do one for special weapons? :D
Most likely yes!
No mention of the assault cannon for Blood Angel heavy support units? Assault 4 with rending 6+? A rhino full of brrrrrt zipping across the battlefield?
I am loving the video' - thank for creating such informative content
Thank you Richard!
How about using the assault cannons in imperial fists?
I purposefully didnt go into legion-specific weapons; ill cover those in the legion videos! But assault cannons are good yep
@@Hearesy I was going to ask the same question. Good to see you'll be covering it. I just had my first HH2 game the other night and ran an HS squad with Iliastus assault cannons and they're great. Infantry deleters but also decent against dreadnoughts. Drop Alexis Polux in along with a Castellan -- deep strike, rip ass, and score. It's a good combo (based on my sample size of one game, but still...). Great video man. Really dig what you're doing here.
Thanks Chris, and yeh I really like ACs too!
What is your opinion on the assault cannons for Fists, assault, rending and 4 shots?
Theyre very good, even for their cost. The reaction limitation is a real limitation though. Id use them in most lists for sure.
@@Hearesy thanks
Great video! I do wonder if the culverin needs to go up in points cost for how versatile it is.. Looking forward to hear your thoughts on special weapons!
Shush!!!!
so would say Las cannons or auto cannons for Iron Warriors as a support option for EC force ( I'm doing an Angel Exterminatus themed list)
Autocannons for big stuff, (av14+), lascannons for 13+ and elite flex options
I’m waiting for official Plasma Cannons to plomp onto TSons. Achean Force is pretty fun.
Really enjoying your tactic videos! Have you had a chance to look and compare the EC sunkiller squad vs a lascannon heavy support squad with a armistos or something? Regarding cost wise etc! A mathhammer check on this would be greatly appreciated!
Inminent!
The sun killers got hurt by the HH1.0 version of the rules being copy/pasted in without any editing, the +40 points per extra model is too high and based of HH1.0 lascannon costs and the augury scanner being 20 pts rather than 10pts like it is on other units. They still need to get over the night fighting debuffs in turn 1 by either taking an armistos (~75pts), techmarine (~75pts), or by giving the sgt the augury scanner (20pts) and the sub-sonic pulser augment (20pts).
@@Hearesy did i miss it or hasnt it been discussed yet by one of your videos yet??
Not quite yet!
Great video! I think the biggest winner is the multi melta with the move to a new edition. If you have a way to infiltrate them or you're up against an aggressive opponent they can really deny a large portion of the board! Isn't there a consul that gives scout/infiltrate?
Yes, but buried in the IC rules is “infiltrators cant join non-infiltrator units” which basically stops the pathfinder from… pathfinding :/
That said, most heresy missions are very “midboard” so i think people will often come to you anyway! Certainly all those Terminators in Spartans will…
@@Hearesy that's a shame :'( but like you say, controlling the midboard could prove useful!
What are your thoughts on equipping a vet tac squad with a las cannon, perhaps supported with nemesis bolters as an alternative to 5 man support and/or seeker squad options? Very new to HH and perhaps more interested in the model making, converting and lore rather than competitive play. Cheers - liked & subbed.
Keep veterans cheap. You're paying for 2 wounds and ws5, use them for melee with power weapons and thunder hammer on the sergeant
I dont find rules of autocanon in my Liber hereticus. There are different autocanon. Which one is the right for infantery ? The only Who is not "jumeled" ?
Unfortunately I’m the case of death guard their legion trait has a special exception for getting out of vehicles so things like multi meltas will still be snap firing after disembarking
Check the show notes :)
I play Salamanders and made some Volkte Culverin Heavy Support Squads to fit my Red Hot Salamanders theme
I mean you still net a catafracty if he fails, they are just so resistant against allot of other stuff
Regarding the Death Guard comment on Meltas being able to hop out a rhino and shoot them, swear it says in the rule that lets DG move and count as stationary it says that you can't hop out of a transport and count as stationary?
It does. I noted this in the description after recording… had a moment :)
Hi, I have five marines left and can either equip them as a support squad with rotor cannons or as a heavy squad with heavy bolters. Was thinking of giving them the heavy bolters since they will have more firepower, but I’m reconsidering based on your video. Any advice?
In an absolute vacuum id say rotors, but it depends what you want them to do. If you arent fists, HBs probably arent much good.
@@Hearesy One reason I’m still on the fence is that a squad of five heavy bolters will (on average) force a small squad of space marines to take a morale check with one attack while the rotor cannons will likely force a pinning check but with fewer casualties. Of course, if you’re up against a 13+ man squad, then the heavy bolter likely won’t force any kind of morale checks.
Also, I’m thinking that heavy bolters could possibly do a wound or two of damage to terminators and can (theoretically) wound dreadnoughts as well.
Sorry I am new… nothing in tactical squad say you can replace with flamer…no flamer in the HH box set
Nope. Tactical squads in HH have bolters and thats it!
I'm new to Horus Heresy and am doing Death Guard using MK3 armour. How easy are the new weapon kits to use on the older marines? Can you add a bit of green stuff and hide gaps with shoulder pads? Cheers
Ive seen people do it with very little issue, yeah. Not done it myself but doesnt look too hard!
@@Hearesy thanks for the quick reply. I'll have to give it a go
Just cut off the left hand at the wrist and you should be good to go.
Just need them to release the other heavy weapons for my marines now!
Id not seen the mk6 heavy weapons that were previewed at the open day until today - they look great!
What sections do they appear in. For some reason they don't show up on battlescribe
i go with las cannons, firstly cause they look cool and secondly they make a mess of what i shoot at.
Aether-fire weapons look like they’d give plasma a leg up. Thoughts?
Theyre very powerful! Potential instant death, no gets hot, for free. Yes please!
Frag is better VS large squads of marines. 20 dudes is a large target and its easy to get 5 hits per blast templet. 10 frag x 5 hits per = 50 hits. plus pinning. with a vox you can reroll the scatter dice.
The armistos also brings an invulnerable save to the unit
He does!
Gotta say it, but hard disagree on the verdict for heavy bolters ESPECIALLY for Imperial Fists. For points to effectiveness, a squad of 10 IF Heavy Support squads are going to be putting out 40 shots, hitting on 2s, wounding marines and terminators on 3s. That's basically your opponent picking up 14 models out of a squad of 20 tactical marines in one round of shooting. For 175 points? You've already paid for yourself and basically neutered and/or removed an entire enemy unit in 1 round. Price to effectiveness, HB are a very solid choice if you play imperial fists. Additionally, you can a castellan in with them and now you have a unit with line and another 5 heavy bolter shots on top of that.
That kills 7 models, not 14. Volkite would kill 11-12 after Deflegrate. Plus Volkite is better vs anything with a higher toughness value like dreads, javelins, etc. And they have 9” more range. And have more calue out of an augury scanner. Its like a 60% effectiveness increase plus other benefits for under 30% extra cost. No contest!
Id argue theres no good mechanical reason to run HBs in Fists. They do certainly look cool and add some variety though!
@@HearesyYou're correct! I mathed badly. However Volkite's also gonna cost you another 50 points. 225 is starting to get pricy for a squad of 10 dudes in power armor considering they can't get any of the helpful survivability things like Heart of the Legion. Add in another 20 points because you'll likely want an augury scanner and vox, you're looking at an 8th of your list on 10 guys of questionable staying power. I guess at the end of the day its a cost vs benefit thing for me. I don't think there's enough justification to invest that many points into a squad that can get crippled with only moderate effort. However, I do completely agree with you that HBs could really use something like pinning tacked on to their rules to give them a little more sparkle considering most other heavy weapons have some other additional fire mode, or special rule associated with them.
Heavy weapon teams are best for bucks considering the reactions.
I think the weirdest thing I've found with the HSS is that 10 lascannons is cheaper then 10 meltaguns in a TSS, seems a little off 😅
Yep. TSS weapons are weirdly expensive. Feels like they all need to be -5 points.
Should dark angels just take interemptors instead of a heavy weapon squad?
Different roles i think. Inters are much closer range!
I want to run a 10 man missile squad for my NL's to help create pinning tests
Yeah that is definitely something that puts them to use!
I was thinking the same thing for the same reason. Then they double as decent anti armour as well.
Heavy bolter should have shred.
Slowly ticking off your heresy videos one by one. I've set a heresy merseyside Facebook page up because there wasn't one. Trying to create a connected merseyside heresy gaming community so myself and others can connect and play.