ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Sharing my experience of using Auro 3D to upmix content on the Denon AVR X4700H and Arendal 1723 S and 1961 speakers
If you want to learn more about Auro 3D watch the Daily HiFi podcast with it's creator: • Auro-3D with Wilfried ...
The problem with Atmos is there is too many lazy sound engineers that doesn't want to mix the sound properly and by the end the movie lost a good sound immerse experience
I agree. Dolby Atmos when done right is brilliant, sadly were few movies have fully utilized Atmos tracks :(
@@mariusm5187👍🏼... Exactly
Agree 100%. I installed a 7.1.2 atmos setup in my home theater and have not been wildly impressed. I too found that the height speakers are barely used and it made them pointless. I ditched my Yamaha receiver for the Denon 4700H for Auro3D and will be running Auro upmixing for everything. Much better tech. I just wish I had known beforehand so I can optimally place my speakers in the ceiling.
I'm glad to hear that 😃 Everyone has heard or Atmos due to large marketing that they have done but Auro 3D didn't have that kind of budget yet it's really good! If they get more advertising I think many more people would adopt it
One prob you'll have is you have only 2 overhead speakers. Does Auro cancel that problem?
On the new receivers Auro3D appears to have more options, even full support for only 2 overhead speakers
When one hears sound come from above, the sound is usually off in the distance first! 🤔 therefore by my calculations height speakers are always better than ceiling speakers.
That's how human hearing works. I've listened to a few Atmos systems with speakers in the ceilings and I honestly think mine give a better overheard effect not being in the ceiling.
There is an interview with the inventor of auro 3d and he says you are right!!! Will try and find it again and link. He also says dolby can't use height for copyright reasons so dolby recommend ceiling speakers BUT he claims dolby atmos sounds better with height speakers so recommends using them for dolby atmos as well. Unfortunately my system has neither and I won't upgrade for at least a year until I build a dedicated home theatre room to try myself.
watch fury you can hear the missiles coming from a distance before slamming into the ground, it sounds so realistic
I have a 5.1.4 setup with heights, on the front and rear walls. I had a Denon X3700, an excellent AVR, but when the X3800 came out with Auro-3D and Dirac capability, I didn't think twice and bought one, keeping the X3700 as backup if the 3800 ever needed a repair. While there are some home release movies that do have excellent Atmos audio tracks, too many don't and that's where Auro-3D saves the day (although Neural:X is very good also) and you can set its Surround parameters to your own preferences (I Iike medium at 12 or Movies at 14). I probably use Auro at least 80% of the time.
More or less, exactly my experience as well
I posted your video on my community page. Good job explaining!
Thank you. That means a lot! I also plan to make a video on what Auro 3D does to the bass. You mentioned as well that you found bass stronger when having Auro 3D on which is what I've noticed as well. I haven't measured it using REW yet but plan to do this week, will be an interesting thing to see.
A perfect example of humans being cr*p at hearing from above working on a roof shout down at someone I bet you 100% of the time the next thing you will do is "Oi up here " as they look around confused as to where its coming from, or sitting on a 2nd floor with the window open listen to people talking in the street.
sound is all around you not pin pointed only the general direction of where the sound is coming from again try sitting on the second floor with your eyes closed and listen to a car driving past
My theory is that Dolby Atmos is mixed properly only for movie theaters. Imax theaters also obviously use some kind of Atmos or 3d-type sound. But for home use I'm not surprised that producers don't mix Atmos sound very well.
That's a really interesting theory. Because the mixing for Blu-ray releases are separate from the cinema ones. And usually they don't give the Blu-ray releases much time to mix at all
@@mariusm5187 Also Blu-ray and Blur-ay 3D mixes don't tend to get Dolby Atmos mixes. Usually reserved for 4K UHD Blu-ray
That's a very fair point. I just recently got mission Impossible collection in normal Blu-ray and upmixing with Auro 3D was much better than the native mix on the disk.
I agree with every word you said about AURO3D..
I did exactly the same test 2 months ago and the difference was choking..
I also tested Avengers end game
And the result was night and day ..
Thanks for the video..
I'm glad to hear that :) I mean it doesn't work 100% of the time for movies as few of them do have great Atmos tracks but for the 95% that don't Auro 3D really makes a big difference
One of the best Auro3D reviews on TH-cam.
This is the auro 3d review I was looking for. Thanks. Great comparison! I am trying to convince my wife to approve the purchase of Denon 4700 and 4 more speakers :)
It really is worth it!
@@mariusm5187 man, this is so cool, I just found another video of yours where you review the QAcoustic 3000. I am running (almost) the same setup right now: 3050 fronts, 3090 center and 3010 in the back. Dual PB1000 subs, Marantz SR5009. I am looking to add 4x3010i (no "i" are not available any more) to be the hight for auro + Denon 4700 to complete the setup.
I guess everything should sound quite well :D
How did the QAcoustic perform when you had them with front hights?
It's great system and setup and of wow yeah very much the same 😁 Yes 3010 were good as height speakers and also the QA bracket for wall mounting is good and allows for great flexibility so going for 3010 as heights would be a great call.
Go for it, it's a great system...
@@shakhussain21 Denon 4700 already acquired :)
Awesome I have the Marantz with Auro 3-d, and I’m so disappointed spending all that money for Atmos, and my atmos speakers are on the wall like yours, so now I’m definitely up mixing to Auro 3-d m, thanks so much
Glad to hear that 😄 I really hope you enjoy it
I found Auro3D by accident too and I am currently using Auro3D only.
Here is another shocker for you. You are missing the center height and the voice of god or Top Sound. If you have only one choice, then setup the VOG. The up mixed of VOG changes everything.
I would like to hear anyone else’s input.
I see. Well yeah I'm really curious about the VOG channel myself but sadly for me installing a speaker above would be really really difficult.
I bet an outdoor style speaker would work great as ceiling speakers. Has a bracket on it already. I bought some for my height/ceiling
That's a fair idea. However, it is also the athletic aspect of it, the vog speaker would need to look right in the room
WOW I SAW THE DIFFERENCE!!! AURO 3D THE BEST
Nobody needs the cinema when you can fully invest into one in your house. Love it man👏🔥
I completely agree. I'm getting a better exclusive at home rather than in a movie theater. For example when low bass goes off in my home theater my hair shakes 🤣 I've never had that in a movie theater
@@mariusm5187 exactly I own two 12s and those shake the whole entire house. I have a 7.2 system
Plus no annoying people eating around you or kids screaming. That's a massive bonus
@@mariusm5187 I totally agree with you on that. And it’s actually sad that atmos doesn’t utilize the height channels enough. That’s why I don’t mind having a 7.2 system cause I know you are not missing a whole lot. But I do own a 5.1.2
It is a big shame. I mean there are few really good ones but they really really rare sadly
The truth is gradually becoming apparent - Dolby and DTS have the commercial clout to apply their brand to everything and it’s ridiculous - lap tops, soundbars e.t.c. - this is clearly NOT immersive audio, just like THX started certifying junk - where is THx now? Auro 3D has patents which prevent DTS and Dolby from copying their immersive audio. Look at cinema Atmos - 128 different objects - domestic Atmos loses most of these channels and they need to be remixed into fewer objects for home listening - do the engineers do this for every movie? Apparently they don’t. Please can a DTS or Dolby technician comment - you must be out there and you have been very quiet!
I mean most budget receivers support Atmos with only 2 height speakers which really is not enough. And yep Atmos branding is being put on almost everything regardless of quality
if you ever do another demo you'll want to mimic binaural audio with just two mic sources. It doesn't have to be perfect but have one center left and the other center right of the listening area. Then in post set the left mics track to just left channel and the right mics track to right channel.
Thanks for the advice. I might be doing another demo in the future and I shall definitely keep what you said in mind :)
Auro-3D sounds like a great format, but so far I’ve only come across 1 movie that even has it, and it was the import version lol. The US edition didn’t even have it. (The Texas Chainsaw Massacre).
It's very sad that there is not many auro 3-D movies, but the good part is that you can upmix atmos to auro 3-D that don't have a good atmos sound out like they're supposed to have.
Yeah, Auro 3D strength is definitely in it's upmix any content you throw at it
The main idea is to use the auro3D upmixer, it's very good.
When Atmos mixing is good, Auro 3D is more natural but less accurate. As it happened in this demonstration. If you look closely, when the light is moving in circles and goes underneath, the speakers sound at a high level, which shouldn't happen.
In atmos this is more accurate and only sounds when the light passes overhead. So in this demo it's superior dolby atmos. Greetings!!
Yeah I would agree, with native content Atmos is going to be more accurate. For me the natural sounds more appealing than accurate but a lot of it is down to ones personal preference
He said in the video this demo is best case scenario and movies often are worse. Did you miss this bit? If you understand how we listen we don't hear an object like the red light or say a bird from just the location of the bird, we hear it naturally reflecting throughout the environment and our brain process the direct and indirect sounds in nature. The upmixer was tested and designed based on how music normally is received in a concert hall and that background of understanding how music is received was studied and added to the upmixer.
Regardless of all that, you will see so many people just like this guy try auro3d and preferring it. I have no agenda, I don't care, I just push a button on the avr, dolby, dtsx, auro, I just choose the one that sound like a natural bubble of sound around me.
I don't even want to bring up how good the VOG speaker is in auro, (voice of god) that is placed at the highest most 3rd level above the floor, then heights, and the vog is a speaker directly above you that is amazing, for me.
Playing ATMOS with Auto 3d is a terrible idea
Could you elaborate a bit more?
Auro-3d ruels....💪! Great choice mate.! 👍🐱
I agree with you 😃
I have Auro3D running for about 6 years (Denon AVR-X7200) and I love it.
I'm glad to hear that. Make people are not aware of it
Love the Auro 3D use of height speakers. You’re right. Atmos doesn’t always include them. Thanks for the review.
Happy to help 😃
I will Upgrade to Auro in the Future too. But I need to move out first in a New Location and then I need to buy 2 More Speakers. One for the Center High and the other one for the Voice of God. Then I have a 7.1.6 Setup. Oh first off I need to Upgrade to an Receiver that Supports Auro. Currently it Supports only DTS X and Dolby Atmos, good enough for now.
Good call. Also more receivers are supporting Auro and Yamaha is adding it too.
Thanks for this.
I'm too running 4 heights, Any idea if it is better to identify them as ceiling speakers vs heights on the receiver?
And, when upmixing with auro3d, is there way to reduce the sound that comes from RL sapeakers when sound should be playing only from heights ? many thanks.
If you're running heights, it would be best to set them as heights in the receiver.
Depends on your receiver, but there should be a setting to adjust the upmixing strength
Just did the demo myself. When Atmos only, the rain in the further part of the demo is the ONLY part in full Atmos. The rest of it is not. They really didn't do a great job of using Atmos in the proper way. It's nice, but not the full experience without the rest of the system.
Yeah I know what you mean. It's a shame tbh, they could do so many more amazing things.
Great objective report! Thx!
You convinced me to spend the $200 to upgrade my Denon to Auro. I had Atmos installed in the past but was seriously disappointed with the performance. I moved around my living room recently but did not bother with the height channels. Basic 5.1 is actually really good.
Your demo was impressive. I'm gonna take the time to set up my speakers for Auro.
Thanks.
Well I had a similar experience. Since I was upgrading my speakers and getting the higher tier receiver I decided to go for a different layout and after using Auro 3D I would not go back. I mean as I said in the video if you got a good Atmos track on the movie, well Auro 3D won't do much but if it's lacking then Auro 3D really helps out with immersive sound. I mean upmixing music and normal 2 channel content has been awesome. Also to be able to use full Atmos and Auro 3D make sure in layout you set the height speakers at the back rear height. This will allow to support both Atmos and Auro 3D :) I might make a video about the settings and the unified layout.
Well I have been very familiar with this format for a few years by now and yet you forgot to mention a very important thing in your rather interesting video. It's that to fully enjoy your Auro-3D sound you must absolutely deactivate the bitstream from your BD player and put it on LPCM . And there, you will see the difference after that.
Cheers !
Most old Blu-ray releases have LPCM 5.1 including ones from Sony. The releases of Blu-ray movies have something like Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio.
Good point but it can be a bit mixed as well. I'll need to triple check this myself but from what I understood using bitstream is just fine: th-cam.com/video/vQavD4-116M/w-d-xo.htmlm59s
@@mariusm5187 Aaahhh .... this dear Patrick, I know him very well we discussed it several times and we remain in contact for a possible project or to see an interview together. But to come back to the main subject we agree on the same point is that it is absolutely necessary to deactivate the Bitstream even if the old Blu-rays have LPCM. Why ? Quite simply, it is by default in Bitstream mode on the player.
I see. So you found better results setting your Blu-ray player from Bitstream to LPCM? Does it have any negative effects on the other formats (Atmos, DTS) ?
@@mariusm5187 Well, it all depends mainly on your speaker configuration because many people don't know. But yes there is a better result and if you ask the question directly to Patrick and he will tell you and it seems to me that he had already alluded to it on the SpareChange channel: th-cam.com/video/osqinzo_AwE/w-d-xo.html. However Patrick and I have the same conclusion that not only Auro-3D can be better than Dolby Atmos but there is another even better alternative it's DTS / DD Neural X and it's certainly the most efficient algorithm EVER to my taste :)
Auro 3D just didn't have the funding to expand itself
That's very true, sadly money controls a lot and Dolby has lots of it.
Hello Marius.. I’m your big fan on TH-cam. I have a question about 3D upmixing . My home theater system just the same your home theater system set up. So, when I watch the movie have Dolby Atmos audio content my Receiver automatically Change to Dolby Atmos I cannot switch it to 3D upmix like you said . Can you tell how? My receiver Marantz sr-8012. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks
Use the green button labeled movie on the remote to switch sound modes.
The buttons at the bottom of your remote with Music, Movie would allow you to change the settings. BUT you will need to have the correct configuration in the receiver to allow Auro3D to show up as an option
Arendal is raising their price on speakers November 1 2021. I’m ordering mine today before the price increase.
Good call. Tbh I've seen prices go up on almost everything hi-fi, so Arendal price increase is inline with everyone else.
@@mariusm5187 I’m so torn on the 1723S or the JTR Neosis 110HT. How do you like your 1723S?
They are good, I'm overall happy with them. JTR are great but they not the best looking. I mean it's all about the sound but I think speakers should also look nice and Arendal's definitely do along with sounding great. Also 10 year warranty is nice
@@mariusm5187 thank you good sir… I’m looking forward to seeing more of your videos. Thanks for all you do and please keep up the good work. I’m really looking for the follow up video of your 1723S.
Thank you, I really appreciate the kind words :)
Very nice video! Thanks from Brazil!
Thank you 🙂
Combine two in ceiling rear or closest to the lp as a VOG substitute. Anyway this is an old post and would love to hear your updates.
Thanks for the demo ..it was worth the watch! Yes my next upgrade will have Auro 3D !
Thank you. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do
@@mariusm5187 yes I did enjoy it...and when I see some of these electronics companies like Anthem ...say it doesn't have Auro 3D ....and you are not missing anything...it makes me think are they that desperate for your business? No they just don't want to pay for the licensing fee for Auro 3D. I believe in it and I have only heard your demo....my experience at home here with my system was not that impressive like they claim in their demo of Dolby Atmos..so I Wil be looking forward to my next upgrade with Auro 3D Thanks again and stay safe!
@@jimhamlin6551 sadly Auro3D just don't have that much money behind as Dolby does and we know that it's not always that the best tech wins the war but those with more money and lawyers. Auro3D is not the perfect system but I do prefer it over the various Atmos systems I've listened to.
Nice bro
Thanks
How does this compare to DSU?
Personally I really didn't like DSU upmixer, it didn't sound natural and was way too processed. DTS:X was much better and then Auro 3D a level above
Yeah. People on the internet were comparing them and one person mentioned that the DTS upmixer takes an aggressive approach and placing sounds that shouldn’t be in the height speakers. DSU using a different algorithm to upmix to height speakers sounding natural and “spacious”.
I mean they weren't awful but Auro 3D was just better at those small details. Sounds only played from the speakers you would expect them to come from there were no oddities
We need another vid about your cable management especially for high channels. 👍
Once I'm done with some house renovations I will be making another video
Brilliant video! Btw, what amp are you using?
Thank you. I'm using Denon 4700H to power the 4 height speakers, and the 5 floor level speakers are powered by Emotiva A5175 power amp
@@mariusm5187 thank you for responding. I'm in the market for an amp and I'm trying to figure out which way to go. I have the same receiver as well, how does the sound of the receiver compare to the sound of the amp?
No worries, there are many options to go for, I just got a really good second hand deal on my Emotiva. I find it good and detailed, listening to classical music for example the speakers sound dynamic and not strained, there's a really good separation between the instruments. Sadly I can't really provide a good comparison between the receivers amp and the power amp as I have not listened to the front 3 using the receiver. I would suggest looking elsewhere for more in depth comparison between the two
@@mariusm5187 absolutely and thanks again for the video and all the info. Very informative!
Thank you for watching :)
Trying to set up my Auro here. Bumped into wife factor....
Did you try or heard small (very small) speakers like Cambridge Audio Minx Min 12 as front/rear hight? Would they be producing sufficient sound and do the job? My room (living room) is not large, I am not listening at high volumes, but sound quality is important too. Need an advice, man..
I know some people on the forums have used them and had rather decent results not ideal but better than nothing. Look them up on avforums
Best to get some Auro 3D movies from Germany they sound amazing! Spiderman Homecoming is the best.
That's my plan actually. I already got 2 Auro 3D Blu-rays I just haven't had the chance to watch them yet.
Txs. I thought the Auro-matic was an add-on. My living room is not big, same as yours. were you able to set the rear elevation speakers at 30 degrees? How low can you install the rear elevation speakers?
They are in between the 30. Left is 32 and the right one is 28 which is still fine. It's really hard to get a perfect 30 degree elevation when the seating position is not in the center. It's between 25 and 35 degrees, that's the sweet spot
Do you still use the Auro3D upmixing today?
Yep, still tried out the other methods but always keep going back to Auro3D
Where can I find this demo you’re using??
It's linked in the unified layout video I did which also explains how to play it properly using VLC media player
Does Auro 3D upmixing bleeds centre channel dialogue for example to the hight channels. Can anyone explain how the upmixing actually works. Thank you.
Hmm I don't think bleed the right the term here. Yes some vocals go into heights based on what source is being upmixed. But vocals always sound like they are coming from the center speaker. There are great videos from Daily HiFi with the creator of Auro 3D I would suggest watching those
yes there is but that's normal and natural. Whenever we talk, our voice doesn't only come from our mouths directly to the person we talking to there are also roof reflections Wilfried explains that Auro adds in these reflections that make your voice sound more natural
Your video is play where? From TH-cam in your laptop? What is your connection for play de demo? Thanks
It's from Dolby website, I used VLC player with audio passthrough so the Denon would do all the decoding and it was connected via HDMI 2.1 cable to the receiver
@@mariusm5187 thanks
Where can I download the demo atmos video?
I use this: thedigitaltheater.com/dolby-trailers/
Auro 3d for yemaha which avr can use. Kindly advise
Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A6A and AVENTAGE RX-A8A should support Auro3D
@@mariusm5187 thanks so much
What about the upmix dts Natural:X compared to Auro 3D...? Have you tried that?
I did but not that extensively, DTS:X was better than Atmos upmixing that much was very clear. I might do more in depth comparisons later
@@mariusm5187 thanks, I think it would be more fair comparison between Auro 3D and dts Natural:X especially for those without Auro 3D.
I agree, I'll have a look into it some time in the future
X4700 have enough power for 9 speakers? or you need an external amp?
Depends how far you sit to your speakers, if it's less than 3m you should be just fine
@@mariusm5187 thx
But it also depends on the sensitivity rating of your speakers. If they are above 87dB and you sit less than 3m away from the speakers you should be fine to run all 9 of them
Thanks man for your knowledgeable video ❤️. I requesting you to please create a video. How to get dobly atmos true from VLC i tried a lot but mostly I'm getting pcm signal. If possible plz do a tutorial kind of video.. I'm waiting for that video bro.. 😉
Yeah sure would be happy to do that, I'll also show what settings to use to get Auro 3D working with Dolby Atmos in a single layout. I'll try to film and get the video up on Friday :)
@@mariusm5187 lovely bro thanks in advance..
How do you upmix streaming from let's say Netflix or Disney+ to Auro 3D? I have the Denon 6700H and it doesn't give me the option for it. TIA
Hmmm that's odd, it works just fine for me. What is your source?
@@mariusm5187 Apple TV 4K 2021
And it goes straight to your receiver? If so check what your audio output settings are.
@@mariusm5187 Yes, straight to the AVR, audio format is set to Dolby Atmos on should that be turned off?
I'm not really familiar with Apple TV sadly. What audio format options did it provide you with?
Hi Marius,
Got a random ques for you if you have a sec as you’ve got a 4700 too :-)
I’ve just moved from 9.1 config with just 2ch height, now on 4ch height. When you go to Options, Speakers, manual, levels and scroll through the test tones do you get a weird relay switch on the outputs between the top front and top rear tests? 🤔
If so I wonder what it’s doing, as all 9 amps should be on anyway 🤔
Hmm can't say I've come across that but the Denon has few power modes and it will turn on additional amps to power speakers. What is your eco mode set to?
@@mariusm5187 Eco mode off. It’s fine when in use to be fair, it’s just odd when scrolling through the test tones that it switches relays between top front and top rear. Never seen an amp do that before 😄
@@pauledwards8721 I keep my Eco mode to auto and when I go above -30dB i can hear a relay click, so I am assuming same is happening with yours.
@@mariusm5187 👍 same with mine for Eco, this is something new when scrolling through test tones since enabled 4 height channels.
I’ll try and grab a vid of it 😊
Actually just realised, you’re using a power amp aren’t you? So your setup won’t be switching internal amps like mine :-(
@@pauledwards8721 it still does as the power amp is only for the 5 floor speakers. And the receiver powers the 4 height speakers
Great video. Great explanations. I am now convinced too that Auro 3D is the way to go. I have said for a while the same, that atmos is not all that... Time to make a change.
Give it a go and I really hope you like it
@@mariusm5187 Hello, I have a Marantz 8012 now , its all hooked up but I cant find the settings for auro in menu . I watch your other video on setting up auro 3d, but I dont see those auro settings in the menu.
@@jamesdavisjr1086 what speaker layout are you using?
@@mariusm5187 I'm using 5.1 plus back surrond and front height and back height
@@jamesdavisjr1086 5.1 plus back surround would be 7.1. does that mean you got 7 floor speakers and 4 height speakers?
Very informative video, I have just purchased Denon X4700H two weeks back, I have tried Auro 3D few times but not in so deep as you did, but now I'm going to try tha way you have explained in the video. I'm using 5.1.4 speakers two front hight & two back high not a single speaker in sealing. Hopefully I'm going to enjoy most in this way. Thanks for sharing your experience...👍🏼🙏🏼
For me it made things sound much better! You will also notice that with stereo content it will place people's voices in the center channel which is nice if you are not sitting in the center of the front speakers.
Just make sure you set the height speakers to front and rear height
@@mariusm5187 yes settings are the same in my system setup. I'm assured I will notice the same you had experienced.
When I switch to Auro 3D my Top rear speakers gots inactive. Denon App also shows Top rear speakers disable. Any settings for that...!!!? Please guide.
@@shakhussain21 I'm no expert, but I think you need to set your speakers to Front Height and Rear Height in order for the Denon to recognize all height channels.
@@shakhussain21 look at my next video Auro 3D layout and settings. You need to set up the back speakers as rear height and not top height, this way it will work for Auro 3D and Dolby Atmos
I wish it was available on more receivers :(
I agree but it needs a minimum power rating. I mean Atmos is classed just with 2 height speakers and they can slap it onto any receiver no matter how bad or underpowered. Auro 3D at minimum needs four height speakers. That's why the actual receiver needs to have a better power amplifier rail to run four height speakers compared to just two. So that's why it just needs more premium hardware which of course sadly does mean it costs much more
Auro 3D is dead. put it to rest already.
An interesting claim
your opinion is dead
@@e4superfly obviously not since it got your attention 😉