I had 4 in ceiling Atmos for about a year. I could hear the potential, but they didn't offer the dynamics I demand to run with my bed layer. A few months ago, I changed my 4 overhead, side surrounds and rear surrounds all for JBL 8330a (pro cinema surrounds). These are most comparable to the bookshelf option in your video. It was a tremendous difference. I would recommend everyone use a more capable overhead speaker, which in most cases is a mounted, box speaker.
I totally agree with you, i use genelec powered monitors. I have G4 in bed layer and G3 as height speakers. These series sound alike so i am happy with them.
I went the high on wall route with polk owm3s always thinking inceiling was superior but not wanting to commit to holes! Years later it seems a lot are shifting back to on wall or on ceiling rather than in ceiling. My experience has been fantastic although sounds have seemed elevated above tv but not above listeners. Recently added 2 more heights right above MLP and it has connected everything, the atmos sounds incredible, the difference is astonishing. How i expected Atmos to sound! 7.2.6. i dont think people realize how important top middles are, reality is top rear has the lowest volume of sound/content in any atmos mix. Also the degree difference between fronts and rears can be a massive gap in your sound stage throwing everything off. Similar to having your front left and right waaaaaaay too wide or far apart. Great video!
Thanks for sharing! I have considered going to 6 height channels but so far have not pulled the trigger. Maybe I should just do it. I even have an exceptional pair of Paradigm bookshelf speakers in my closet that are collecting dust. Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for watching!
Yep. In order to do in-ceiling speakers right, you really have to plan it out and choose the in-ceiling speakers that have the right kind of baffle-angle built in. And even then usually only the main row gets good sound. If you have multiple rows, they will likely be off-axis. With bookshelf speakers, its easier to aim to cover multiple rows.
And I agree wholeheartedly. The Top-Middles are absolutely essential. Especially if you have multiple rows or are in a long room where there is a lot of distance between the front stage and the rear stage. The Top-Middles bridge the gap between them and really add a lot of presence and dimensionality to objects passing through the room. People have no frame of reference for what this adds to a soundtrack till they experience it.
this is why M AND K had the s300 and k4 dipole back speakers, cause they did not need ot be hughe, as the sounds they get are, low and less. they threre to close in the gaps, front to back.
I am currently observing and educating myself on the home theater experience. I am a novice in this field but I found your video to be very helpful and informative.
I have the Klipsch in-ceiling speakers that allows me to direct the woofer and the tweeter towards the listener. I can pivot them independently of each other.
Me too! And I like what I'm hearing. I also have Klipsch Atmos speakers which has an on/off switch on the back of each speaker (for either wall mount or as tower toppers); I have them mounted on the wall above my TV. Frankly, I like what I'm hearing from my Klipsch in-ceiling speakers.
If you have low ceilings like me, "bookshelf" speakers can actually be on-wall speakers on an articulating mount for a lower profile (like Polk OWM 3, or OWM 5 if you can mount them safely.) Remember: ceiling mounts need to be screwed into studs. Don't mount to just drywall nor even drywall with anchors!!
Up firing speakers that are built in the towers work very well on 8ft ceilings like the klipsch rp 280fa and the rp 8060fa but i do agree the up firing modules don't work. The reason they don't work is line of sight. If you can see the drivers then your going to hear the off axis before the ceiling bounce. Unlike the ones in the towers gets the off axis blocked by the cabinet there for the first reflection is off the ceiling.
this might be sacrilege, but can acoustic foam or something be used to block the line of sight path so only the ceiling bounce is heard? I assume it would be ugly but might work I assume ultimately there's a hard ceiling (no pun intended) to sound quality from the up firing ones. Seems like so much effort goes into high quality drivers, and cone materials, cabinet shape, room acoustics, on and on for mains. But then someone goes "oh Atmos? just bounce it off your ceiling or something" ??
@ShouterOfSanity even a peace of cardboard to make 4 walls around the atmos module would work for testing but thin wood with half inch foam on the inside would work better..... but straight foam would still let sound go through it.
Good vid. I'm almost at bookshelves running 4 kef egg uni q satellite speakers as my heights. They have their own little mounts to which I attached some mecanno style brackets from the local hardware store to attach them more easily to some plasterboard screws in the ceiling, 88db efficient, 80hz cutoff, 100w max, 4" drivers.. I moved them a couple of days ago so they fit within the 55 degree front and back, side to side of the listening position per ht gurus recommendations. They sound fantastic. I bought them for $200 aud second hand. The thing you've rightly highlighted is for some reason Atmos made people forget about speaker dispersion characteristics. Your listening position just has to be on axis to the speaker. I swallowed the cool aid too having them in line with the mains for more than a year following the stupid diagram from Dolby. I'm a firm believer small angleable bookshelves or satellites IN THE RIGHT POSITION (extremely important) will out perform all other solutions. For the record I've tried Dolby enabled speakers on mains and surrounds and book shelves at the the front and rear high on wall positions as well. These solutions just don't really work.
Nice! Sounds like those Kef speakers are working well for you. You’re right, correct positioning and angles makes such a difference. Thanks for watching!
I have had Atmos since about 2017. I started with All-weather speakers. Really cheap ones ($50 a pair) just as a "proof of concept" to see if Atmos worked. Long story short, it worked like a charm. A couple of years later, I upgraded from the cheap all-weather speakers to a much more expensive pair of Def Tech all-weather speakers that matched my center channel. These were much better than the original pair and enhanced my Atmos a bit more. Noticeably better. Then when I bought a home, I started setting up a dedicated room and switched to a pair of bookshelf speakers that matched my front mains. The bookshelf speakers have been, by far, the best option. Now I am getting ready to upgrade from 5.2.2 to 7.4.6. Really excited to get started.
Nice!! I like your approach of dipping your toe in with a low cost option to prove out if it actually works. Good luck with your project. It sounds like it will great! Thanks for sharing and thanks for watching!!
@@mediaconnect4135 the dimensions of my theater is 12 x 20. Because of the length I feel it will benefit from 6 height channels. Especially because I am setting up 2 rows
I’m a 25yr long veteran of the DIY “cult”😂 ( now retired at 72), and member of the system wide timbre matching school of thought - i e the same make if not model on all channels - but that can be hard to achieve if you’re not able to build from the room from scratch around the system - or commit to major renovations with each moving of the target of “best design”. What I have been able to achieve in an already fully finished basement room is commonality on the bed layer - a combination of DIY towers and small bookshelf enclosures for the 3 front row & front /rear surrounds, with 4 channels of budget priced in wall & ceiling types for the Atmos effects channels. It’s taken well over 10years to get this system to its current status- I’m currently on my 4th AVR and at least third upgrade of external amps - and hopefully have finally been vaccinated against further resurgences of the FOMO virus that plagued my first 30 years addicted to this hobby.
@@mediaconnect4135 my theater dimensions are pretty good though not perfect: 20 x 12 x 7.5. Plenty of space for the 7.4.6 setup I am planning (currently up to 7.2.4) The room has a lot of limitations. Some of which were recently fixed, but still have some work to do. The big one I cant fix are the fact that the rear wall is half glass because its a sliding glass door that accesses the back yard and pool. And the other major issue is that the ceiling is slanted. 8 feet on the right side, 7 feet on the left side. Right in the middle its 7.5 feet high. My height channels are about 10" difference in height from the floor and seating area.
You can have in-ceiling speakers that are angled to the listening position like these Polk Audio 80 F/X-LS. I run 4 of them and sound amazing. They are super over kill for Atoms but I like them.
I am running a 7.2.4 set up with big vaulted ceilings and an open concept house. I went the route of bookshelf speakers.. … in hindsight, not sure the positioning is the best, but I worked with what I had. my front heights with the brackets I purchased are just over 8 feet high at 45° angle, slightly wider and closer than my main towers. my rear height speakers are only about 7 feet high at the bottom of the slope. And since they’re closer to the main listening position and lower, I’ve got them closer together. To position my front heights, I measured 5 feet forward and then 5 feet to either side of the main listening position. Am I rear heights were 4 feet behind and then 4 feet to either side …. If that makes sense. The speaker positioning may not be the most optimal, but I had to work with the restraints of my living space. I’m very happy with the set up and I think it sounds pretty damn good.
I went with an even more uncommon atmos speaker: a center channel. I was looking to find a very shallow but lightweight speaker that had mounting holes. Certain speakers have limited orientation placement because of their horizontal and vertical dispersion patterns. So I was able to procure 4 Martin Logan Motion 8i speakers that would allow me to have very steep and flexible placement angles while keeping the tweeter vertical to maximize their excellent horizontal dispersion while minimizing their lack of vertical dispersion. I was also able to get them quite flush with my ceilings too. The most flexible type of bookshelf speaker you can use are ones with concentric drivers, so you mount them horizontally or vertically. You were wise to choose the kefs exactly for that reason.
I have satellite speakers set up as front height and angled towards me as part of a 5.1.2 system and while they definitely provide a much fuller sound and solid height in front of me they rarely produce the sensation of sound right above me but I guess that is to be expected.
Some in ceilings are angled to provide aiming to the MLP, so that could provide the best of all the options if they match the base layer drivers. The other reason is for aesthetics. That would be one answer to your question "why not?" Many people put a lot of effort and money into the "looks" of their theater and mounted bookshelves on the ceiling would be a huge eyesore.
Yeah, the “invisible” nature of in-ceiling speakers is a major advantage. I looked into the angled in-ceiling speakers but the price was significant. Lots of factors to consider. Thanks for watching!
@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome Absolutely a lot of variables to consider indeed. I think aiming speakers to the MLP is optimal for a MLP, single row seating or low ceilings. Perhaps not as much for multi row seating configurations. Regarding price, there are some reasonable priced angled in ceilings from manufacturers such as RSL and OSD, for example, which may fit the bill. It all depends on the approach, matching brands/drivers vs. mix and match I suppose.
@@dxsloparr I don’t think most in ceiling speakers are aimable really. Typically they are down firing with at most a tweeter that can be angled to some extent. They do exist certainly, but are typically angled baffles which aren’t what he discusses in the video. A ceiling mounted bookshelf speaker, on the other hand, can be simply mounted and nearly infinitely adjusted.
@@gjhunter9326 Sonance makes aimable speakers for $150 a pair at Best Buy. That’s what I bought for my in ceiling. Every major speaker manufacturer makes aimable in ceiling speakers. Where are you finding these non-aimable speakers?
I use the bookshelf on ceiling method, I use an older design, Infinity US-1, a 4" and ].5" with a built in adjustable mount. They are only rated for 75 watts, and 80-18khz. Integra Drx 3.4, 5.2.4 Atmos
An important factor that needs to be mentioned when choosing the route your taking with a type of speaker you wanna install is also; the accessibility of PASSING in-wall or in-ceiling speaker WIRES. Because if your passing wires on-wall, then all options are possible and fairly easy (although not as aesthetic!). Otherwise, you want to choose an option that is not too difficult to pass your speaker wires to GET to your speaker destination (and mounting option). Some homes or apartments may make in-ceiling wire installation pretty complicated (or if you don't own the location either). In my home theatre, I had to go with on-wall Front and Rear heights for my .4 set-up, with Canton Atmos speakers. Good topic choice, thumbs up! Atmos is always fun to talk about, thanks.
Thanks for this video, I am working on a 5.1.2 system now. I have concrete ceiling, virtually impossible to do in-ceilings there. But I found a very nice solution, I will go for the Teufel Reflekt speakers (nice small pretty satellite speakers) and I have ordered special ceiling brackets custom made for these speakers (on Etsy). So I can mount them above my couch and also angle them towards the MLP. This should work great and looks great, I am very curious about the results!
I have Sonance 6” in-ceilings for atmos. They sound really good, but I will be getting bookshelves. Also, bookshelf speakers have a calculated box that provides the best sound for that speakers while in-ceilings have an infinite baffle and may lack in sound quality becuse of that.
My movie room is in the basement with 8' height. To keep it feeling taller, I didn't put a ceiling in. I bought a pair of Sony Atmos speakers that could be installed bouncy house or overhead. The width of the seating area is just over 10 feet and in my case, the angle of the speakers mounted overhead directs them to the center of the seating area. They sound great but then again, they are the only thing I've installed. Had I thought about it deeper, I probably would have gone with bookshelf speakers as you are recommending.
First time here! I am glad to hear someone agrees with my thinking. I have hesitated to jump quickly, but I saved up my $$'s and my Atmos 'bookshelf speakers' are finally here. Adding .4 elevation speakers to my 40 year old home theater will now bring it to a 7.2.4 system. It seems to have taken forever, but the plan has been there the whole time. With the rears aimed from a rear wall book case, this leaves just the fronts to be clamped into mounts aimed from the front side walls. Of course they will be the same distance and same angles as the rears are. My side surrounds are dipole and elevated not only due to room constraints, but also because I think there needs to be space to develop the sound envelope. I have had smart people try to convince me this is bad, but in a theater there is much more space than my 14'x27'x8' room. David
I would think you'd have to have an extremely high-end in-ceiling speaker to match the quality of sound from a well-designed bookshelf speaker. I've always been skeptical of in-wall/ceiling speakers over bookshelf/towers until I heard GoldenEar's high end theater speakers, which are absolutely stunning...like most everything GoldenEar does.
I have golden ear in ceiling 7 inch angled for med atmos and rear atmos. Considering at front height for 6 atmos. Room is 14x18 so trying to decide. I am also trying to work out rear speaker placement as I have a closet in the way lol
Hi I'm looking at mounting Polk ES10s for my Dolby Atmos like you, could you please share a pic of how you mounted them using that ceiling Mount bracket.
@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome Thanks for reply, My reply was meant for @frankkniseley9951also noticed @bretonsmith1939 has the same speakers I have and I would love to see a pichow they mounted their Polk ES10's
I’m running a unique scenario with bookshelves in the middle height, and upfiring on top of the rear surrounds, but my rear surrounds are mounted about halfway up the wall. It’s working great.
I did a video tour of a Chane home theater. The sound from those speakers was excellent! Here’s the link if you wanna check it out th-cam.com/video/Y6kfk_nuIV8/w-d-xo.html
I have some old Onkyo little bookshelf speakers that i angled down to try atmos while I upgraded my bed speakers (Klipsch Rp M2 series). Now I intend to upgrade em and was wondering what to buy between the angled atmos speaker (rp 500sa 2) or the bookshelf with same dimensions but with rear ported (rp 500 m2). They cost the same and can mount em.
Nice video, people use elevation type speakers because they look better than a bookshelf on a articulating arm, which stick out quite a bit. I agree that they are not the way to go for a dedicated cinema room (where looks don't really matter) but for a living room they look way better (height speakers are already eye soring enough as it is).
I mounted four tubular speakers a foot or so below the ceiling, aimed at my seating position. The two in front are taped to a pipe that was mandated by the City to feed the sprinkler system. The two in back are hung in black rubber tie-down straps from a hardware store. Each strap (two per cylinder) is hung from the ceiling with a pair of two heavy-duty eyelet bolts attached to the ceiling with spreader type nuts over the drywall to distribute the weight. Why rubber straps? To soak up the vibrations, protecting the ceiling tiles they're hung from. I fully agree with aiming the overhead speakers at the main listening position. I also advocate that after running the automated room EQ pass to match the channels' tonality and arrival times, you manually tweak the volume levels of all channels to make your system's test tone sound equal to you while you're facing the screen. This is to compensate for the tendency of the typical upward-facing EQ mike to hear the surround and overhead speakers as louder than our forward-facing ears do, causing the automation to set those channels too quiet. which is why I finish up by matching the levels of all channels by ear while facing the screen.
Great advice. Not only is cutting into the ceiling more difficult than mounting a small speaker, but it locks in speaker and furniture placement. Yikes. My overheads are Mirage Nanosat Prestiges mounted upside down, as recommended by the manufacturer for "surround" positioning. Their imaging is fuzzy by design, almost "lawn-sprinkler" in nature and it makes them extremely forgiving about placement (both theirs and the listener's). Mirage couldn't have known they made the perfect and most economical Atmos overhead speaker back when these were released, but they're so well-suited due to their mounting design and diffuse soundstage. I've only got a pair mounted overhead now due to AVR constraints, but I bought a quartet so I'm ready when I upgrade.
I don't have a dedicated theater room yet. My living room has vaulted ceilings & I'm sitting perpendicular to the split. Bouncing was out & wasn't sold on the idea. Wasn't sure how in-ceiling would sound so I bought some wall mounts for some old Pioneer speakers I had lying around. I did hide some Hue Play lights behind them too. I love having Atmos!
Nice article. My ceiling is acoustic tile, so I just see the up firing, bouncing style working very well. Plus they are costly for what they are. So I wall mounted some Polk T15 they are front ported and are working well. As you said, because of the adjustable brackets, I was able to aim them directly at my listening position. Plus, they sit a little off the wall, so it should help with bass response. All in all, it was the best solution for me. I bet the q150 that you showed would be better than the T15, but the little Polks are working great for me. Thanks for validating my install. Subscribed.
Yeah, I have 4 in ceiling Atmos speakers that are adjustable to allow the sound field to be directed at the 4 main listening positions and they are amazing. Not just according to me, but everyone who’s come over to watch movies. It took a few try’s to get them aimed correctly, but once I did and ran some sound tests, I find they are spectacular. I have a 7.4.4 system set up with two 10s and two 12s crossed over to cover specific lower end. It is extremely clean. I had three friends come over last weekend after I installed the two new amps, and one commented that he would never go out to see a movie again if he had my home movie theater in his house. Which prompted another friend to say he simply would never leave his house again if he had it. I am very pleased with my final set up.
Thanks for this. I’m working on my first Atmos installation this weekend. I am using DefTech ProCinema 800’s for the height channels, since I already had them on hand. Because the eventual room layout may be rotated 90° from the way it is currently, I am not mounting the speakers on the walls yet. Instead, I bought some inexpensive telescoping 7’ speaker stands for the rear height channels which are like oversized camera tripods. The front heights will sit on some bookcases in what is currently the front left and right corners of the room. I have articulating pole mounts that will allow me to experiment with angling the rear height speakers toward the main listening position, but I’m still trying to come up with a way to angle the front heights at MLP.
Cool! Sounds like you’ve got a great project going. Part of the fun of home theater is figuring out the best layout given the room and constraints. Good luck!
Well explain video. I always wanted to install in ceiling I even installed a new ceiling so I can pre wire. I had the elevation the day they came to the market but I didn’t like them. I this point I been using a Polk on ceiling they are flat I put a bracket that are flash to the ceiling and I can angle the speakers to my seating position I’m so happy with the sound just to point out all my bed layer are B&W and I don’t hear the different on the sound having a different brand on my tops.
I use round anthony gallo speakers. Baseball size for the 4 ceiling and softball size for the front,middle sides and back. All of them aimed at me. Nice!
I like using 6 in ceiling speakers for the Atmos speakers, now I don’t think their was many constraints, but I could be mistaken… but over all I like using the in ceiling, since the height effects should come from above you, so having the speakers up their, works out, I am still trying to find a great movie, or audio that uses 6 height speakers above me, which I am still trying to find, if anyone has any good suggestions for movies that will have good/accurate height effects
I'm doing a home theater in a new house. I plan to slant part of the ceiling, not just to serve the interior decorative, but also to house the in-ceiling speakers at the best angle.
Great video. I have a 5.2.4 and I use four bookshelves for the two fronts and the two backs. They are on brackets and angled straight to the listening positions. I never liked hiding my speakers but I do keep the covers on the speakers all the time. My side surrounds are elevated a little since I'm sitting so close to him. But the sound I get from the ceiling is amazing. I just watched The Twister movie that was remade in 4k and holy crap.
Makes perfect sense. I have a 7.2.2 setup, plan to do front bookshelves after I install a 120" ALR screen for short throw projection. Speaker dispersion is critical for the MLP. One type of ceiling speaker you forgot to mention is LCR Ceiling speakers. They have the ability to direct the tweeter in a 2 way speaker. Most don't allow the directional woofer to be pointed at your MLP. Therefore angled ceiling heights or ceiling mounted bookshelves remain the best option for the most decible gain, clarity and lower distortion.
I Have 4 prime elevation speakers pointed at the listening position. It's weird when listening to atmos. It's better when the speakers are not directly pointed at you with in ceiling to give you more of a special effect. You lose the effect when speakers are pointed straight at you
I have six in-ceiling speakers. They are bookshelves that are physically in the ceiling and fire through specially constructed grills so you don't see them. Rather than using brackets to hold them, I constructed wooden frames with foam rubber on the bottom (didn't want to take a chance on vibration noises). Works really good. I chose bookshelves over surface mount (in-ceiling) speakers simply because I think they sound better. IMO, it was worth the extra trouble and cost. Doesn't look as nice as surface mount, but it's still ok.
I was always under the impression that you couldn't use bookshelf speakers for the height channels. Not sure why. That said, the elevations work well for me, for the size of my room. I found they weren't super loud and I believe they were getting drowned out by my front channels so I moved them to the middle. They sound much, much better.
Many people in Europe use Elevation speakers because of the concrete ceilings here in Europe, or bookshelf speakers. I have elevation speakers, because you can attach them to the wall without any mount. And they are often more compact than bookshelf speakers. I use elevation speakers ( I got rid of my bookshelf topspeakers) and they sound great !!! If you have the right elevation speakers they have the exact angle as is advised for Dolby Atmos without a the need of a mount.
I scored a NIB set of circa 2006 Niles CM760DSFX in-ceiling speakers at my local Goodwill for $50. I was able to place them almost ideally (per Gene's recommendations, not Dolby's), and angle them directly at my MLP. I'm very happy with my new 5.1.2 setup. 👍
Using in 6 ceiling speakers for now. We will see they are decent quality and not angled. I was concerned about that before but not so much now. They are only around that 30 degrees off so still in the wall of sound I think. Either way it's a huge difference coming from two speakers to six. I wanted to get angled focal in walls but those are more like 1k each.
In my 7.2.4 system I repurposed 4 x Bose 161 bookshelf speakers as my Atmos heights and angled them from the ceiling to the MLP area, they work a treat! My room size is 6x8 metres (19.7 x 26.2 ft)
I think one solution for the in-ceiling speakers is what Sonance did with the Sonance VX62R. These speakers can be installed in ceiling and can be angled towards the listening position instead of pointed downwards. I have these speakers as my top fronts.
I'm using two Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 1000 for my front heights, and two Pro Monitor 800 for the ceiling facing downward to my listening position, but I plan on upgrading them to the 1000 for a bigger sound. My system is a 7.1.4.
I have to say. I have the Samsung 990D with the upfiring speakers, it's pretty solid. Not compared to a full blown system with separates, but the atmos effects actually are pretty solid for a $1k setup
I have 4 elevation speakers of SVS and they work great for my livingroom, what concerns using bookshelf speakers i don't like it visual for in a livingroom theatre. In ceiling speakers not possible because i have a concrete ceiling.. another option would be the focal dome speakers as atmos speakers with a bracket. But i'm happy with my svs elevation speakers. Calibrated it with audessey multeq x and it sounds great..
i'm making a théater at hole too, dedicated theater , i do that because i love 3D movies with 3D glasses, but i dont kno much about sound , i was thinking i made a mistake puting cable for the side but sound like it's okay . thank you for this vidéo i understand more about that
I have my elevation speakers on the actual ceiliing, as they are slanted, the front top ones as directing sound towards me and mostly to middle of room. Then the same with the back top ones, towards me from above directed from behiond my head. So although I am using elevation speakers they are not attached to the wall. I drilled a hole for each speaker on the ceiling where I wanted. Then put in raw plugs, then screw, and used the keyhole mount on the back of each speaker.
Bookshelf speaker matches the tone of all the other boxed speakers. I used to have open in-ceiling speakers, but changing it to smaller 4 bookshelf speakers sounded so much better. As usal thanks for this post.
I bought some bookshelf speakers for the height (eBay specials, very cheap, yet in good condition) by the same manufacturer, and same vintage as my mains and surrounds. a) they have roughly the same tonal balance as the rest. b) much easier for me to install than ceiling speakers - less risk of electrocution or bursting a pipe! c) can angle them how I want due to the brackets I'm using. d) cosmetically a match for the rest of the speakers. Seems to work pretty well so far. I never even considered the upward firing speakers as I imagine setting them up to bounce sound off the ceiling how you want is virtually impossible in all but the most 'ideal' room. I also dismissed the angled speakers for the same 'why would you not use bookshelf speakers for this' reasons you did!
I have in ceiling that articulate and angle mostly at my MLP. It works for me but love the idea of bookshelf on the ceiling. It just makes sense. Thank you, great video!
I mounted 4 outdoor speakers lol. Guess that’s considered book shelf. Same 90x90 tratrix horn as bed layer. Angled them towards listening position. Sounds pretty good. It’s just helicopters and sand and rain noises
Most bookshelf speakers are designed to be mounted on a stand in an upright position. In your examples, the bookshelfs are mounted on the ceiling in a horizontal position. Would this change the dispersion pattern of the speaker for those seated outside of the MLP, possibly affecting the sound quality in a negative way? In my personal living room setup, I opted to install spherical, cocentric speakers (elipson planet m) as they can be easily aimed and can avoid any potential dispersion issue of mounting a bookshelf horizontally. Also, some ceiling atmos speakers have an angled chasis, which allows them to be directed in a better position than most standard ceiling speakers that point straight down or only have an aimable tweeter. I personally would prefer the angled ceiling speakers, but the way my ceiling is set up, it would have been extremely difficult to install.
I chose RP-500SA II speakers, 6 pieces, and installed them on projector mounts on the ceiling, so you can perfectly point them towards the audience, the whole set works with Arcam AVR31 and PA410 power amplifiers, they sound really good like the other Klipsch set - and currently in the 7.1.6 setup, ultimately 9.4.6, however, I am waiting for the delivery of acoustic panels, unfortunately acoustics are very important, which we often do not pay attention to, it is worth investing in acoustic panels
Nice! Sounds like a great setup! Acoustic treatment is so underrated. It’s a shame more people don’t treat their rooms because it is a massive upgrade in sound quality. Thanks for watching!
I'm not an audio expert by any means, but it's worth mentioning aim-able ceiling speakers. That's what I went with my for my 5.1.2 setup in my room. They're positioned about 4 feet ahead of my listening position and aimed back at me. They sound good to me! The Mag6r sonance speakers aren't a bad deal on sale at bestbuy for a small atmos setup, considering their flexibility with being aim-able.
When I first bought my front left and right towers, I chose the definitive technology 9080 towers. That have the up firing atmos in them. Although I love the towers, the atmos was very underwhelming. Even after turning them up all the way. Plus I have "popcorn" ceilings, so that acts like a diffuser. So that was a learning experience. I eventually bought a pair of Polk box speakers mounted them with a bracket similar like you explained and that made a big difference. I have a 7.3.4 system. By the way very good video, I just wish I would have watched your video before hand.
Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed it. A lot of this theater stuff is trial and error. I recently made a video about the 10 mistakes I made in my theater. It’s pretty humbling to see all my bone headed mistakes back to back 😆
Upfiring work, they just have to be calibrated using dirac and paired with 2 subs that can get up to 180 hz with a decently flat spl, and a low flat ceiling. I've heard an upfiring systems that are pretty great in that configuration, but it's much harder than just mounting a speaker if you can.
A major positive for using bookshelf is they tend to be higher quality closer to full range and can usually sound better than the angled and in ceiling. The quality of bookshelf speaker that can have a better range and sound quality is a major point in using them as the better speakers choosen will sound better. That's if if passes the wife asthetic factor. I often use auro3D and the auromatic upmixer can make use and actually prefers as close to full range as possible. That way when sounds with lower frequencies are overhead, they can be appreaciated and all of the low sounds don't have to be sent to the sub.
Great review. Thank you. I think it definitely makes sense to have that ability to move the speaker on the mount rather than prefixed angle, if the speakers in both types (book shelf and Atmos) are no different. I have a question. I have a theatre room with distance from screen to listening position at 15 feet. The back wall is at 16 feet from screen with about one foot of back rest of the sofa. If I mount 2 book shelves in ceiling at 15 feet directly above sitting position and 2 surround back speakers on left and right side of back wall at 16 feet, it will be 4 book shelf speakers very closely mounted to each other. I don’t really want to pull my couch towards screen because my screen is 132 inch ALR screen and I want comfortable viewing distance from this big of screen. Will this congested mounting affect sound quality or even make any sense? Thank you for making these videos and answering questions.
My Height speakers aren’t timber matched to my ear level speakers. I can’t hear a difference. For the drop ceiling, that could be tricky. Without looking at your particular setup I’m not sure what to recommend.
Have you got any advice for a slanted ceiling. Goes from 10ft on one side to 8 ft. Planning on using some cheap Boston acoustic bookshelf speakers. Mainly to see if I can get any value from Atmos in my room. Thanks for the video!
You could the mount the speakers directly to the ceiling and one set of speakers would be a further distance from the main listening position. This wouldn’t be a huge deal as long as your AVR has good room correction software (Audyssey, Dirac, Ypao etc) to correct for the difference in distance. The other option would be to use a 2 ft extension for the speakers on the 10 ft high section to get them down to the same level as the other 2 speakers. Good luck with your project!
I am wanting to expand into atmos. Just relocated to Germany and am a renter who has cement 8 1/2 foot tall ceilings. I was thinking about mounting like attitude speakers but I see what he is saying about bookshelf units. I am looking for prime bang for buck to get my system to 7.1.4 but haven't gotten any atmos speakers yet. Still on the fence 😅
I tried that with my original in-ceiling speakers and even with the tweeter aimed right at the MLP I was still getting a major drop off in sound. Some in-ceiling speakers are angled for the whole speaker. That’s probably a decent option.
The Height style speakers can have an advantage over bookshelfs. Many bookshelf style speakers do not offer a way to attach a mount without drilling into the cabinet. Height style speakers normally have provisions to attach a mount properly. They can be installed on the ceiling and properly aimed at the MLP by using a proper mount. As with any speakers in the system, be sure whatever speaker is used for Atmos can be crossed over correctly at 80Hz.
There is a 5th option ( which i am using ) : Elipson Planet M speakers ( a french brand) , which is a perfect sphere shape ( sealed design), and you can buy their original in-ceiling mount . So in the end once installed , u can see it’s half a sphere that is protruding from your ceiling . It’s very aesthetically pleasing , minimalist , and i am happy with the sound with my of those 4 height speakers. I think their marketing is not as strong in USA, hence the low exposure . but the sound quality is great. Find a dealer in your area to try it. i think it’s a perfect solution as the design is sphere shape .
Hi @GeorgeTheaterAtHome thx for this video. I recommend that you turn your hight bookshelfs 90 degrees. I know it does not look as good as its does right now but to me it looks like you are wasting 50% of your hight frequencies and even worse you are adding ceiling reflections. Bookshelfs are designed to stand and that is especially true for the tweeter. Use them like an elevation speaker and you should have even better sound exoerience.
I have my elevation speakers mounted on simple articulating mounts so even with their slanted fronts, I can still adjust and point them toward the listening position. I don't use the mounts that come with the speakers, although I did use them when I first got the speakers. I didn't like the fact that when using the mounts that come with the speakers, that even with that slanted front, they always point forward to the back of the room. I wanted them pointed at the listening position. In ceiling speakers are out of the question at my place as are the bouncy bounce type. The ceiling is sloped and much to high anyway.
I built my 9.2.4 home theater myself so my thoughts are influenced by my specific build. 1. I also have a Samsung 990 up-firing Atmos soundbar system and the effect can be quite spectacular. Not as great as in the dedicated theater but the first time I watched All of Us are Dead the perception of overhead sound was remarkable. And it may have been synthed and not true Atmos. I have no issues with its height/overhead effect. 2. I'm not sure about the effectiveness of height corner speakers but they seem so much easier to install than in-ceiling speakers. Crawling around inside attic insulation is hideous work. I refuse to ever go in the attic again. 3. Why use a non-aimable ceiling speaker? Mine aim/swivel both the mid/woofer and the tweeter. 4. Bookshelf speakers hanging from the ceiling are probably the best not for the reason you mention but because a well designed mating of driver and bookshelf enclosure is obviously going to provide better sound than installing any ol' driver in an 'infinite baffle' ceiling cavity. Now, a really well designed in-ceiling/enclosure might be almost as good but those generally still seem to have more compromises than a great sounding bookshelf speaker. Of course, a bunch of boxes hanging from the ceiling is not ideal esthetically.
If I had it to do over again or decided to redo my ATMOS/surround speakers, I would use book shelf speakers on gimbled mounts. I do have a limitation with a door close the one speaker mounting location which makes a book shelf speaker selection limited due to the depth of most book shelf speakers. I'm currently using Polk OHM5 speakers for ATMOS and Surround. I like them for my room because its small-ish and there is a door near the corner where a rear speaker is mounted. The speaker design/mount is so close to the wall it has no impact on the door's swing. The ceiling speakers mount at a 45 degree angle pointing directly at the listening location and are unobtrusive. ATMOS ceiling mounts would also work well, but I would need some very solid mounts that can support the weight of good heavy bookshelf speakers. The OHM's have built-in mounting keys that work at multiple angles and even come with a corner mounting bracket if needed. All rooms are different so each room has its own limitations.
The main problem I have with in-ceiling speakers is that they can end up too close to the listening position and the sound can become localised to them, i.e. you can hear the sound coming directly from each speaker, not as an Atmos positioned object. Having upfiring speakers allows the distance to the listener to effectively be doubled and perhaps pointing the speaker so that the reflected sound is directed at the listener can work well. I’ve never had an Atmos system but I’m moving house so will experiment with speaker placement by playing a stereo source just through the Atmos speakers. Sure, the sound will not be as clear as directly pointing the speakers from the ceiling, but I think the overall effect can be better if the same principles of pointing the speaker through the reflecting surface are followed. In the case of this video, front, up firing speakers probably reflect the sound off the first 1/4 of the ceiling down into the middle of the room, instead of at the listener. If the speakers were angled more at the listener through the reflection you might end up with another issue where sound can be heard directly from the speaker as well as through the reflection unless something (probably acoustically dampening) is placed in front of the speaker to block the direct sound. To me, it seems correctly angled and positioned up firing speakers that are above the listener to stop direct sound, could be a good way to do it. Last thing to note is that the reflecting surface would need to be as non-dampening as possible.
Can you share the type of mount you use for your bookshelves? I have Klispch elevation Atmos heights and they work great but I don’t have them “perfectly aimed” at my “sweet spot.” I’d like to get them on mounts and aim them directly to my sweet spot to really enhance the quality. Yes they are “aimed down” but one still needs to “position” them for the best effect. Btw - nothing wrong with bookshelf. Like you said…just need aimed on mounts. I think people assume you would just hang them and they’d be shooting sound outward in the air - obviously if mounted correctly like yours they’d work fine.
@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome Thank you! I know you would think it’s not hard to find mounts, but my speakers are mounted on some framing that was done around the ductwork when the basement was finished. So I was looking for a set that would work being mounted without needing to suspend them through the ceiling on poles yet could still stick out enough and rotate. Those look like they’ll work perfectly! Thank you!
I have Rp-550SAs and initially I set them on my my towers as theyre supposed to go. I heard them but was not very impressed. I found you can install them as heights on the sides of the tv near the ceiling. Night and day difference. My soundstage sounded fuller and completely more immersive. I would love in ceiling but Don't want to do the work right now or get new speakers. And I will not do bookshelf speakers because I have seen people do it and it looks tacky.
Thanks for your video, very informative. I went from wondering "what the heck is Atmos" to much more dangerous thoughts along the lines of "yeah I think I'll go with the bookshelf for Atmos." Uh-oh. Recently I read audiophile and home theater is like riding the dragon and now it's uncomfortably funny. Just another 5 watts to the mains, oh and another pair of speakers, no big deal. Also nice job with the cable management on the bookshelf speakers. How did you get the speaker wire into the ceiling, and once it's in the ceiling, how do you snake it to your amp? (might be obvious to people that know contracting but I most certainly do not!)
Glad you enjoyed the video! I ran the speaker cable before the drywall was installed. If that isn’t an option, here’s a video I made explaining how I ran cable in a finished room. Good luck with your project! Ep 2: How I Wired Atmos Speakers th-cam.com/video/hBgH92PPPaU/w-d-xo.html
Great topic. In my theater room I have in-ceilings and in another room I have some old satellite speakers, funny enough the Atmos effects are better with the little satellites, they trick us into believing it’s raining outside very often.
@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome Oh yeah. The in-ceilings are the Klispch CDT-3650-C II ($130 each). The satellites were part of a Yamaha 5.1 theater in a box set I bought in 2013, and I paid $119 for the whole set.
Just letting you know upfiring speakers work fine however there are a lot of variables to worry about such as angle of the speakers, ceiling height, ceiling material, listening position. If your listening position is too far away you end up running into the problem you were having with your in ceiling speakers the sound doesn't reach you. In my experience they work well for small spaces or if your significant other doesn't want speakers mounted everywhere in the living room. I do think wall mounted sounds better but is it night and day better well no not really if you you've optimized the positioning of the upfiring speakers. I watched an interview with Andrew Jones, he's a speaker designer talking about upfiring speakers and why he likes them. Basically he said instead of hearing exactly where the sound is coming from with a speaker firing straight at you the sound is dispersed above you and you know it came from somewhere above you and to the left so it may seem more immersive. I don't know if that's just what he was telling people to sell speakers but it kind of makes sense. I really think they get a bad rap from Gene at Audioholics.
I agree with the localisation issue with in ceiling speakers if the ceiling is too low which is why the overall effect could be better with carefully positioned and angled up-firing speakers. The shape of your room will dictate what the best solution is.
I agree, thanks for pointing this out. I am building a 9.2.4 with atmos bookshelves at the moment.
Good luck with your project! Hope it turns out great. Thanks for watching!
You should do 9.4.6 if you can!
The problem with the front effects speakers, they are firing down in the section also, that is why I don't believe in ceiling speakers for the front
I had 4 in ceiling Atmos for about a year. I could hear the potential, but they didn't offer the dynamics I demand to run with my bed layer. A few months ago, I changed my 4 overhead, side surrounds and rear surrounds all for JBL 8330a (pro cinema surrounds). These are most comparable to the bookshelf option in your video. It was a tremendous difference. I would recommend everyone use a more capable overhead speaker, which in most cases is a mounted, box speaker.
Very interesting! Happy to hear your upgrade improved the sound. Thanks for watching!
What speakers were you running before the upgrade?
@@Ocho817 Klipsch in ceiling. The CDT3650ii
I totally agree with you, i use genelec powered monitors. I have G4 in bed layer and G3 as height speakers. These series sound alike so i am happy with them.
I went the high on wall route with polk owm3s always thinking inceiling was superior but not wanting to commit to holes! Years later it seems a lot are shifting back to on wall or on ceiling rather than in ceiling.
My experience has been fantastic although sounds have seemed elevated above tv but not above listeners. Recently added 2 more heights right above MLP and it has connected everything, the atmos sounds incredible, the difference is astonishing. How i expected Atmos to sound!
7.2.6. i dont think people realize how important top middles are, reality is top rear has the lowest volume of sound/content in any atmos mix.
Also the degree difference between fronts and rears can be a massive gap in your sound stage throwing everything off. Similar to having your front left and right waaaaaaay too wide or far apart.
Great video!
Thanks for sharing! I have considered going to 6 height channels but so far have not pulled the trigger. Maybe I should just do it. I even have an exceptional pair of Paradigm bookshelf speakers in my closet that are collecting dust. Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for watching!
Yep. In order to do in-ceiling speakers right, you really have to plan it out and choose the in-ceiling speakers that have the right kind of baffle-angle built in. And even then usually only the main row gets good sound. If you have multiple rows, they will likely be off-axis. With bookshelf speakers, its easier to aim to cover multiple rows.
And I agree wholeheartedly. The Top-Middles are absolutely essential. Especially if you have multiple rows or are in a long room where there is a lot of distance between the front stage and the rear stage. The Top-Middles bridge the gap between them and really add a lot of presence and dimensionality to objects passing through the room.
People have no frame of reference for what this adds to a soundtrack till they experience it.
How did you install thr Polks? Do you have a particular mount for them that works best?
this is why M AND K had the s300 and k4 dipole back speakers, cause they did not need ot be hughe, as the sounds they get are, low and less. they threre to close in the gaps, front to back.
Bookshelf speakers here. Love it.
I am currently observing and educating myself on the home theater experience. I am a novice in this field but I found your video to be very helpful and informative.
Thank you! Glad to have you here!
I have the Klipsch in-ceiling speakers that allows me to direct the woofer and the tweeter towards the listener. I can pivot them independently of each other.
Me too! And I like what I'm hearing. I also have Klipsch Atmos speakers which has an on/off switch on the back of each speaker (for either wall mount or as tower toppers); I have them mounted on the wall above my TV. Frankly, I like what I'm hearing from my Klipsch in-ceiling speakers.
If you have low ceilings like me, "bookshelf" speakers can actually be on-wall speakers on an articulating mount for a lower profile (like Polk OWM 3, or OWM 5 if you can mount them safely.) Remember: ceiling mounts need to be screwed into studs. Don't mount to just drywall nor even drywall with anchors!!
Up firing speakers that are built in the towers work very well on 8ft ceilings like the klipsch rp 280fa and the rp 8060fa but i do agree the up firing modules don't work. The reason they don't work is line of sight. If you can see the drivers then your going to hear the off axis before the ceiling bounce. Unlike the ones in the towers gets the off axis blocked by the cabinet there for the first reflection is off the ceiling.
this might be sacrilege, but can acoustic foam or something be used to block the line of sight path so only the ceiling bounce is heard? I assume it would be ugly but might work
I assume ultimately there's a hard ceiling (no pun intended) to sound quality from the up firing ones. Seems like so much effort goes into high quality drivers, and cone materials, cabinet shape, room acoustics, on and on for mains. But then someone goes "oh Atmos? just bounce it off your ceiling or something" ??
@ShouterOfSanity even a peace of cardboard to make 4 walls around the atmos module would work for testing but thin wood with half inch foam on the inside would work better..... but straight foam would still let sound go through it.
Good vid. I'm almost at bookshelves running 4 kef egg uni q satellite speakers as my heights. They have their own little mounts to which I attached some mecanno style brackets from the local hardware store to attach them more easily to some plasterboard screws in the ceiling, 88db efficient, 80hz cutoff, 100w max, 4" drivers.. I moved them a couple of days ago so they fit within the 55 degree front and back, side to side of the listening position per ht gurus recommendations. They sound fantastic. I bought them for $200 aud second hand.
The thing you've rightly highlighted is for some reason Atmos made people forget about speaker dispersion characteristics. Your listening position just has to be on axis to the speaker. I swallowed the cool aid too having them in line with the mains for more than a year following the stupid diagram from Dolby. I'm a firm believer small angleable bookshelves or satellites IN THE RIGHT POSITION (extremely important) will out perform all other solutions. For the record I've tried Dolby enabled speakers on mains and surrounds and book shelves at the the front and rear high on wall positions as well. These solutions just don't really work.
Nice! Sounds like those Kef speakers are working well for you. You’re right, correct positioning and angles makes such a difference. Thanks for watching!
I agree elevation & bookshelf are best. You can also mount elevation speakers on a mount and direct it to listening position that works equally good.
agree with using bookshelf or smaller satellite speakers mounted on the ceiling and pointed at the listening position.
I have had Atmos since about 2017. I started with All-weather speakers. Really cheap ones ($50 a pair) just as a "proof of concept" to see if Atmos worked. Long story short, it worked like a charm.
A couple of years later, I upgraded from the cheap all-weather speakers to a much more expensive pair of Def Tech all-weather speakers that matched my center channel. These were much better than the original pair and enhanced my Atmos a bit more. Noticeably better.
Then when I bought a home, I started setting up a dedicated room and switched to a pair of bookshelf speakers that matched my front mains. The bookshelf speakers have been, by far, the best option.
Now I am getting ready to upgrade from 5.2.2 to 7.4.6. Really excited to get started.
Nice!! I like your approach of dipping your toe in with a low cost option to prove out if it actually works. Good luck with your project. It sounds like it will great! Thanks for sharing and thanks for watching!!
Enjoy your time. What about theater dimensions
@@mediaconnect4135 the dimensions of my theater is 12 x 20. Because of the length I feel it will benefit from 6 height channels. Especially because I am setting up 2 rows
I’m a 25yr long veteran of the DIY “cult”😂 ( now retired at 72), and member of the system wide timbre matching school of thought - i e the same make if not model on all channels - but that can be hard to achieve if you’re not able to build from the room from scratch around the system - or commit to major renovations with each moving of the target of “best design”. What I have been able to achieve in an already fully finished basement room is commonality on the bed layer - a combination of DIY towers and small bookshelf enclosures for the 3 front row & front /rear surrounds, with 4 channels of budget priced in wall & ceiling types for the Atmos effects channels.
It’s taken well over 10years to get this system to its current status- I’m currently on my 4th AVR and at least third upgrade of external amps - and hopefully have finally been vaccinated against further resurgences of the FOMO virus that plagued my first 30 years addicted to this hobby.
@@mediaconnect4135 my theater dimensions are pretty good though not perfect: 20 x 12 x 7.5. Plenty of space for the 7.4.6 setup I am planning (currently up to 7.2.4)
The room has a lot of limitations. Some of which were recently fixed, but still have some work to do. The big one I cant fix are the fact that the rear wall is half glass because its a sliding glass door that accesses the back yard and pool. And the other major issue is that the ceiling is slanted. 8 feet on the right side, 7 feet on the left side. Right in the middle its 7.5 feet high. My height channels are about 10" difference in height from the floor and seating area.
You can have in-ceiling speakers that are angled to the listening position like these Polk Audio 80 F/X-LS. I run 4 of them and sound amazing. They are super over kill for Atoms but I like them.
Wow those look great! Do you find you get good frequency response at the MLP?
I am running a 7.2.4 set up with big vaulted ceilings and an open concept house. I went the route of bookshelf speakers.. … in hindsight, not sure the positioning is the best, but I worked with what I had. my front heights with the brackets I purchased are just over 8 feet high at 45° angle, slightly wider and closer than my main towers. my rear height speakers are only about 7 feet high at the bottom of the slope. And since they’re closer to the main listening position and lower, I’ve got them closer together. To position my front heights, I measured 5 feet forward and then 5 feet to either side of the main listening position.
Am I rear heights were 4 feet behind and then 4 feet to either side …. If that makes sense. The speaker positioning may not be the most optimal, but I had to work with the restraints of my living space. I’m very happy with the set up and I think it sounds pretty damn good.
I went with an even more uncommon atmos speaker: a center channel. I was looking to find a very shallow but lightweight speaker that had mounting holes. Certain speakers have limited orientation placement because of their horizontal and vertical dispersion patterns.
So I was able to procure 4 Martin Logan Motion 8i speakers that would allow me to have very steep and flexible placement angles while keeping the tweeter vertical to maximize their excellent horizontal dispersion while minimizing their lack of vertical dispersion. I was also able to get them quite flush with my ceilings too.
The most flexible type of bookshelf speaker you can use are ones with concentric drivers, so you mount them horizontally or vertically. You were wise to choose the kefs exactly for that reason.
I have satellite speakers set up as front height and angled towards me as part of a 5.1.2 system and while they definitely provide a much fuller sound and solid height in front of me they rarely produce the sensation of sound right above me but I guess that is to be expected.
Some in ceilings are angled to provide aiming to the MLP, so that could provide the best of all the options if they match the base layer drivers. The other reason is for aesthetics. That would be one answer to your question "why not?" Many people put a lot of effort and money into the "looks" of their theater and mounted bookshelves on the ceiling would be a huge eyesore.
Yeah, the “invisible” nature of in-ceiling speakers is a major advantage. I looked into the angled in-ceiling speakers but the price was significant. Lots of factors to consider. Thanks for watching!
@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome Absolutely a lot of variables to consider indeed. I think aiming speakers to the MLP is optimal for a MLP, single row seating or low ceilings. Perhaps not as much for multi row seating configurations. Regarding price, there are some reasonable priced angled in ceilings from manufacturers such as RSL and OSD, for example, which may fit the bill. It all depends on the approach, matching brands/drivers vs. mix and match I suppose.
I feel like most in ceiling speakers are amiable including the ones in your video. I’m confused
@@dxsloparr I don’t think most in ceiling speakers are aimable really. Typically they are down firing with at most a tweeter that can be angled to some extent. They do exist certainly, but are typically angled baffles which aren’t what he discusses in the video. A ceiling mounted bookshelf speaker, on the other hand, can be simply mounted and nearly infinitely adjusted.
@@gjhunter9326 Sonance makes aimable speakers for $150 a pair at Best Buy. That’s what I bought for my in ceiling. Every major speaker manufacturer makes aimable in ceiling speakers. Where are you finding these non-aimable speakers?
I use my elevation speakers mounted slightly in front and behind my listening positions on the ceiling angled at me to achieve atmos.
I use the bookshelf on ceiling method, I use an older design, Infinity US-1, a 4" and ].5" with a built in adjustable mount. They are only rated for 75 watts, and 80-18khz.
Integra Drx 3.4, 5.2.4 Atmos
An important factor that needs to be mentioned when choosing the route your taking with a type of speaker you wanna install is also; the accessibility of PASSING in-wall or in-ceiling speaker WIRES. Because if your passing wires on-wall, then all options are possible and fairly easy (although not as aesthetic!). Otherwise, you want to choose an option that is not too difficult to pass your speaker wires to GET to your speaker destination (and mounting option).
Some homes or apartments may make in-ceiling wire installation pretty complicated (or if you don't own the location either).
In my home theatre, I had to go with on-wall Front and Rear heights for my .4 set-up, with Canton Atmos speakers.
Good topic choice, thumbs up! Atmos is always fun to talk about, thanks.
Yes, cable mgmt also must be considered. Thanks for watching!
Using good outdoor speakers that have a bracket and can be oriented directly where you want is a great advantage!
Thanks for this video, I am working on a 5.1.2 system now. I have concrete ceiling, virtually impossible to do in-ceilings there. But I found a very nice solution, I will go for the Teufel Reflekt speakers (nice small pretty satellite speakers) and I have ordered special ceiling brackets custom made for these speakers (on Etsy). So I can mount them above my couch and also angle them towards the MLP. This should work great and looks great, I am very curious about the results!
I have Sonance 6” in-ceilings for atmos. They sound really good, but I will be getting bookshelves. Also, bookshelf speakers have a calculated box that provides the best sound for that speakers while in-ceilings have an infinite baffle and may lack in sound quality becuse of that.
Dali phantom e-50 (ceiling speakers) has angled drivers so you can point them to listening position.
My movie room is in the basement with 8' height. To keep it feeling taller, I didn't put a ceiling in. I bought a pair of Sony Atmos speakers that could be installed bouncy house or overhead. The width of the seating area is just over 10 feet and in my case, the angle of the speakers mounted overhead directs them to the center of the seating area. They sound great but then again, they are the only thing I've installed. Had I thought about it deeper, I probably would have gone with bookshelf speakers as you are recommending.
First time here! I am glad to hear someone agrees with my thinking. I have hesitated to jump quickly, but I saved up my $$'s and my Atmos 'bookshelf speakers' are finally here. Adding .4 elevation speakers to my 40 year old home theater will now bring it to a 7.2.4 system. It seems to have taken forever, but the plan has been there the whole time. With the rears aimed from a rear wall book case, this leaves just the fronts to be clamped into mounts aimed from the front side walls. Of course they will be the same distance and same angles as the rears are. My side surrounds are dipole and elevated not only due to room constraints, but also because I think there needs to be space to develop the sound envelope. I have had smart people try to convince me this is bad, but in a theater there is much more space than my 14'x27'x8' room. David
Enjoyed this a lot....I concur with your thoughts on this and it will influence the Atmos-ification of my current 5.1 system.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! Good luck with your upgrade!
I would think you'd have to have an extremely high-end in-ceiling speaker to match the quality of sound from a well-designed bookshelf speaker. I've always been skeptical of in-wall/ceiling speakers over bookshelf/towers until I heard GoldenEar's high end theater speakers, which are absolutely stunning...like most everything GoldenEar does.
A very knowledgeable home theater enthusiast recommended GoldenEar. I silently thank them every day.
I have golden ear in ceiling 7 inch angled for med atmos and rear atmos. Considering at front height for 6 atmos. Room is 14x18 so trying to decide. I am also trying to work out rear speaker placement as I have a closet in the way lol
I have the same ceiling mounts as you... I'm using the Polk ES10s for my Dolby Atmos speakers...they are angled down and toed in
I love those mounts
Same.same. 4 ES10s up top😊
Hi I'm looking at mounting Polk ES10s for my Dolby Atmos like you, could you please share a pic of how you mounted them using that ceiling Mount bracket.
@@gab7344 I made a video how I mounted the speakers
How to Install Dolby Atmos Speakers
th-cam.com/video/Dsd1iiMGVBo/w-d-xo.html
@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome Thanks for reply, My reply was meant for @frankkniseley9951also noticed @bretonsmith1939 has the same speakers I have and I would love to see a pichow they mounted their Polk ES10's
Started out with reflective went to wall mount bookshelves then to ceiling mount bookshelves. Ceiling mount bookshelves is definitely the way to go.
I’m running a unique scenario with bookshelves in the middle height, and upfiring on top of the rear surrounds, but my rear surrounds are mounted about halfway up the wall. It’s working great.
I just installed 4 on ceiling speakers bought from Chane from USA..model is Chane 4.5.
Very good built and specs...love them.
I did a video tour of a Chane home theater. The sound from those speakers was excellent!
Here’s the link if you wanna check it out
th-cam.com/video/Y6kfk_nuIV8/w-d-xo.html
Gene would be proud of you for acknowledging the "Bouncy House Speakers"...Lol!
Does he get royalty payments on that use?
@@fonkenful I don't know, but he should! There's probably a bouncy house section in the Audioholics Archives...Lol!
@@michaelslocumbsr.2286 Family BBQs and kids’ / nieces nephews BD parties for sure. 👍
Directional in ceiling speakers are a game changer. I have the Origin Acoustics brand, and they are bloody incredible
I have some old Onkyo little bookshelf speakers that i angled down to try atmos while I upgraded my bed speakers (Klipsch Rp M2 series). Now I intend to upgrade em and was wondering what to buy between the angled atmos speaker (rp 500sa 2) or the bookshelf with same dimensions but with rear ported (rp 500 m2). They cost the same and can mount em.
If it were me, I would go with the rp 500 m2.
Nice video, people use elevation type speakers because they look better than a bookshelf on a articulating arm, which stick out quite a bit. I agree that they are not the way to go for a dedicated cinema room (where looks don't really matter) but for a living room they look way better (height speakers are already eye soring enough as it is).
I mounted four tubular speakers a foot or so below the ceiling, aimed at my seating position. The two in front are taped to a pipe that was mandated by the City to feed the sprinkler system. The two in back are hung in black rubber tie-down straps from a hardware store. Each strap (two per cylinder) is hung from the ceiling with a pair of two heavy-duty eyelet bolts attached to the ceiling with spreader type nuts over the drywall to distribute the weight. Why rubber straps? To soak up the vibrations, protecting the ceiling tiles they're hung from.
I fully agree with aiming the overhead speakers at the main listening position. I also advocate that after running the automated room EQ pass to match the channels' tonality and arrival times, you manually tweak the volume levels of all channels to make your system's test tone sound equal to you while you're facing the screen.
This is to compensate for the tendency of the typical upward-facing EQ mike to hear the surround and overhead speakers as louder than our forward-facing ears do, causing the automation to set those channels too quiet. which is why I finish up by matching the levels of all channels by ear while facing the screen.
I'm using 4x klipsch aw400 exterior bookshelf speakers as ceiling speakers as they have mounting bracket integrated.
Great advice. Not only is cutting into the ceiling more difficult than mounting a small speaker, but it locks in speaker and furniture placement. Yikes.
My overheads are Mirage Nanosat Prestiges mounted upside down, as recommended by the manufacturer for "surround" positioning. Their imaging is fuzzy by design, almost "lawn-sprinkler" in nature and it makes them extremely forgiving about placement (both theirs and the listener's). Mirage couldn't have known they made the perfect and most economical Atmos overhead speaker back when these were released, but they're so well-suited due to their mounting design and diffuse soundstage. I've only got a pair mounted overhead now due to AVR constraints, but I bought a quartet so I'm ready when I upgrade.
I don't have a dedicated theater room yet. My living room has vaulted ceilings & I'm sitting perpendicular to the split. Bouncing was out & wasn't sold on the idea. Wasn't sure how in-ceiling would sound so I bought some wall mounts for some old Pioneer speakers I had lying around. I did hide some Hue Play lights behind them too. I love having Atmos!
Nice! Sometimes our rooms require we get creative. Sounds like you found a great solution.
Nice article. My ceiling is acoustic tile, so I just see the up firing, bouncing style working very well. Plus they are costly for what they are. So I wall mounted some Polk T15 they are front ported and are working well. As you said, because of the adjustable brackets, I was able to aim them directly at my listening position. Plus, they sit a little off the wall, so it should help with bass response. All in all, it was the best solution for me. I bet the q150 that you showed would be better than the T15, but the little Polks are working great for me. Thanks for validating my install. Subscribed.
Yeah, I have 4 in ceiling Atmos speakers that are adjustable to allow the sound field to be directed at the 4 main listening positions and they are amazing. Not just according to me, but everyone who’s come over to watch movies. It took a few try’s to get them aimed correctly, but once I did and ran some sound tests, I find they are spectacular. I have a 7.4.4 system set up with two 10s and two 12s crossed over to cover specific lower end. It is extremely clean. I had three friends come over last weekend after I installed the two new amps, and one commented that he would never go out to see a movie again if he had my home movie theater in his house. Which prompted another friend to say he simply would never leave his house again if he had it. I am very pleased with my final set up.
That is awesome! A home theater is something everyone can enjoy. Sounds like you did it right. Thanks for watching!
Cool, what Atmos speakers do you use?
Thanks for this. I’m working on my first Atmos installation this weekend. I am using DefTech ProCinema 800’s for the height channels, since I already had them on hand. Because the eventual room layout may be rotated 90° from the way it is currently, I am not mounting the speakers on the walls yet. Instead, I bought some inexpensive telescoping 7’ speaker stands for the rear height channels which are like oversized camera tripods. The front heights will sit on some bookcases in what is currently the front left and right corners of the room. I have articulating pole mounts that will allow me to experiment with angling the rear height speakers toward the main listening position, but I’m still trying to come up with a way to angle the front heights at MLP.
Cool! Sounds like you’ve got a great project going. Part of the fun of home theater is figuring out the best layout given the room and constraints. Good luck!
Well explain video. I always wanted to install in ceiling I even installed a new ceiling so I can pre wire.
I had the elevation the day they came to the market but I didn’t like them. I this point I been using a Polk on ceiling they are flat I put a bracket that are flash to the ceiling and I can angle the speakers to my seating position I’m so happy with the sound just to point out all my bed layer are B&W and I don’t hear the different on the sound having a different brand on my tops.
That sounds like a great solution. Happy to hear you’re enjoying them. Thanks for watching!
I use round anthony gallo speakers. Baseball size for the 4 ceiling and softball size for the front,middle sides and back. All of them aimed at me. Nice!
I like using 6 in ceiling speakers for the Atmos speakers, now I don’t think their was many constraints, but I could be mistaken… but over all I like using the in ceiling, since the height effects should come from above you, so having the speakers up their, works out, I am still trying to find a great movie, or audio that uses 6 height speakers above me, which I am still trying to find, if anyone has any good suggestions for movies that will have good/accurate height effects
I'm doing a home theater in a new house. I plan to slant part of the ceiling, not just to serve the interior decorative, but also to house the in-ceiling speakers at the best angle.
Great video. I have a 5.2.4 and I use four bookshelves for the two fronts and the two backs. They are on brackets and angled straight to the listening positions. I never liked hiding my speakers but I do keep the covers on the speakers all the time. My side surrounds are elevated a little since I'm sitting so close to him. But the sound I get from the ceiling is amazing. I just watched The Twister movie that was remade in 4k and holy crap.
Makes perfect sense. I have a 7.2.2 setup, plan to do front bookshelves after I install a 120" ALR screen for short throw projection. Speaker dispersion is critical for the MLP. One type of ceiling speaker you forgot to mention is LCR Ceiling speakers. They have the ability to direct the tweeter in a 2 way speaker. Most don't allow the directional woofer to be pointed at your MLP. Therefore angled ceiling heights or ceiling mounted bookshelves remain the best option for the most decible gain, clarity and lower distortion.
I Have 4 prime elevation speakers pointed at the listening position. It's weird when listening to atmos. It's better when the speakers are not directly pointed at you with in ceiling to give you more of a special effect. You lose the effect when speakers are pointed straight at you
That is very interesting. I wonder why that is?
I have six in-ceiling speakers. They are bookshelves that are physically in the ceiling and fire through specially constructed grills so you don't see them. Rather than using brackets to hold them, I constructed wooden frames with foam rubber on the bottom (didn't want to take a chance on vibration noises). Works really good. I chose bookshelves over surface mount (in-ceiling) speakers simply because I think they sound better. IMO, it was worth the extra trouble and cost. Doesn't look as nice as surface mount, but it's still ok.
I was always under the impression that you couldn't use bookshelf speakers for the height channels. Not sure why. That said, the elevations work well for me, for the size of my room. I found they weren't super loud and I believe they were getting drowned out by my front channels so I moved them to the middle. They sound much, much better.
Many people in Europe use Elevation speakers because of the concrete ceilings here in Europe, or bookshelf speakers. I have elevation speakers, because you can attach them to the wall without any mount. And they are often more compact than bookshelf speakers. I use elevation speakers ( I got rid of my bookshelf topspeakers) and they sound great !!! If you have the right elevation speakers they have the exact angle as is advised for Dolby Atmos without a the need of a mount.
I scored a NIB set of circa 2006 Niles CM760DSFX in-ceiling speakers at my local Goodwill for $50. I was able to place them almost ideally (per Gene's recommendations, not Dolby's), and angle them directly at my MLP. I'm very happy with my new 5.1.2 setup. 👍
Using in 6 ceiling speakers for now. We will see they are decent quality and not angled. I was concerned about that before but not so much now. They are only around that 30 degrees off so still in the wall of sound I think. Either way it's a huge difference coming from two speakers to six. I wanted to get angled focal in walls but those are more like 1k each.
In my 7.2.4 system I repurposed 4 x Bose 161 bookshelf speakers as my Atmos heights and angled them from the ceiling to the MLP area, they work a treat!
My room size is 6x8 metres (19.7 x 26.2 ft)
That sounds like a great setup! Thanks for sharing.
I think one solution for the in-ceiling speakers is what Sonance did with the Sonance VX62R. These speakers can be installed in ceiling and can be angled towards the listening position instead of pointed downwards. I have these speakers as my top fronts.
I'm using two Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 1000 for my front heights, and two Pro Monitor 800 for the ceiling facing downward to my listening position, but I plan on upgrading them to the 1000 for a bigger sound. My system is a 7.1.4.
This was exactly my question. I just could not justify buying atmos speakers. Using bookshelf is way better bang for buck
I have to say. I have the Samsung 990D with the upfiring speakers, it's pretty solid. Not compared to a full blown system with separates, but the atmos effects actually are pretty solid for a $1k setup
@@300bo8 very cool! I’ve heard a lot of positive chatter about the 990D. I’ll have to hear it sometime.
I have 4 elevation speakers of SVS and they work great for my livingroom, what concerns using bookshelf speakers i don't like it visual for in a livingroom theatre. In ceiling speakers not possible because i have a concrete ceiling.. another option would be the focal dome speakers as atmos speakers with a bracket. But i'm happy with my svs elevation speakers.
Calibrated it with audessey multeq x and it sounds great..
i'm making a théater at hole too, dedicated theater , i do that because i love 3D movies with 3D glasses, but i dont kno much about sound , i was thinking i made a mistake puting cable for the side but sound like it's okay .
thank you for this vidéo i understand more about that
I came for speaker placement advice. I stayed for the highly detailed diagram.😅 Great video.
😆 thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
I have my elevation speakers on the actual ceiliing, as they are slanted, the front top ones as directing sound towards me and mostly to middle of room. Then the same with the back top ones, towards me from above directed from behiond my head. So although I am using elevation speakers they are not attached to the wall. I drilled a hole for each speaker on the ceiling where I wanted. Then put in raw plugs, then screw, and used the keyhole mount on the back of each speaker.
Bookshelf speaker matches the tone of all the other boxed speakers. I used to have open in-ceiling speakers, but changing it to smaller 4 bookshelf speakers sounded so much better. As usal thanks for this post.
I bought some bookshelf speakers for the height (eBay specials, very cheap, yet in good condition) by the same manufacturer, and same vintage as my mains and surrounds.
a) they have roughly the same tonal balance as the rest.
b) much easier for me to install than ceiling speakers - less risk of electrocution or bursting a pipe!
c) can angle them how I want due to the brackets I'm using.
d) cosmetically a match for the rest of the speakers.
Seems to work pretty well so far. I never even considered the upward firing speakers as I imagine setting them up to bounce sound off the ceiling how you want is virtually impossible in all but the most 'ideal' room. I also dismissed the angled speakers for the same 'why would you not use bookshelf speakers for this' reasons you did!
I have in ceiling that articulate and angle mostly at my MLP. It works for me but love the idea of bookshelf on the ceiling. It just makes sense. Thank you, great video!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
I mounted 4 outdoor speakers lol. Guess that’s considered book shelf. Same 90x90 tratrix horn as bed layer. Angled them towards listening position. Sounds pretty good. It’s just helicopters and sand and rain noises
Most bookshelf speakers are designed to be mounted on a stand in an upright position. In your examples, the bookshelfs are mounted on the ceiling in a horizontal position. Would this change the dispersion pattern of the speaker for those seated outside of the MLP, possibly affecting the sound quality in a negative way? In my personal living room setup, I opted to install spherical, cocentric speakers (elipson planet m) as they can be easily aimed and can avoid any potential dispersion issue of mounting a bookshelf horizontally. Also, some ceiling atmos speakers have an angled chasis, which allows them to be directed in a better position than most standard ceiling speakers that point straight down or only have an aimable tweeter. I personally would prefer the angled ceiling speakers, but the way my ceiling is set up, it would have been extremely difficult to install.
I chose RP-500SA II speakers, 6 pieces, and installed them on projector mounts on the ceiling, so you can perfectly point them towards the audience, the whole set works with Arcam AVR31 and PA410 power amplifiers, they sound really good like the other Klipsch set - and currently in the 7.1.6 setup, ultimately 9.4.6, however, I am waiting for the delivery of acoustic panels, unfortunately acoustics are very important, which we often do not pay attention to, it is worth investing in acoustic panels
Nice! Sounds like a great setup! Acoustic treatment is so underrated. It’s a shame more people don’t treat their rooms because it is a massive upgrade in sound quality. Thanks for watching!
Thank you.
Ordering either Micca RB 42's or NHT .Zeros.
I'm not an audio expert by any means, but it's worth mentioning aim-able ceiling speakers. That's what I went with my for my 5.1.2 setup in my room. They're positioned about 4 feet ahead of my listening position and aimed back at me. They sound good to me! The Mag6r sonance speakers aren't a bad deal on sale at bestbuy for a small atmos setup, considering their flexibility with being aim-able.
In-ceiling speakers with pivotable drivers/tweeters offer the best of both worlds between in-ceing and ceing mounted bookshelf speakers.
When I first bought my front left and right towers, I chose the definitive technology 9080 towers. That have the up firing atmos in them. Although I love the towers, the atmos was very underwhelming. Even after turning them up all the way. Plus I have "popcorn" ceilings, so that acts like a diffuser. So that was a learning experience. I eventually bought a pair of Polk box speakers mounted them with a bracket similar like you explained and that made a big difference. I have a 7.3.4 system. By the way very good video, I just wish I would have watched your video before hand.
Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed it. A lot of this theater stuff is trial and error. I recently made a video about the 10 mistakes I made in my theater. It’s pretty humbling to see all my bone headed mistakes back to back 😆
@GeorgeTheaterAtHome Thanks for the kind words. This is a crazy and expensive hobby we have...but rewarding.
Upfiring work, they just have to be calibrated using dirac and paired with 2 subs that can get up to 180 hz with a decently flat spl, and a low flat ceiling. I've heard an upfiring systems that are pretty great in that configuration, but it's much harder than just mounting a speaker if you can.
I use 4 x Klipsch RP-400M bookshelves for my heigh channels. Sounds awesome
A major positive for using bookshelf is they tend to be higher quality closer to full range and can usually sound better than the angled and in ceiling. The quality of bookshelf speaker that can have a better range and sound quality is a major point in using them as the better speakers choosen will sound better. That's if if passes the wife asthetic factor. I often use auro3D and the auromatic upmixer can make use and actually prefers as close to full range as possible. That way when sounds with lower frequencies are overhead, they can be appreaciated and all of the low sounds don't have to be sent to the sub.
All excellent points. Thanks for adding those to the discussion and thanks for watching!
Great review. Thank you. I think it definitely makes sense to have that ability to move the speaker on the mount rather than prefixed angle, if the speakers in both types (book shelf and Atmos) are no different.
I have a question. I have a theatre room with distance from screen to listening position at 15 feet. The back wall is at 16 feet from screen with about one foot of back rest of the sofa. If I mount 2 book shelves in ceiling at 15 feet directly above sitting position and 2 surround back speakers on left and right side of back wall at 16 feet, it will be 4 book shelf speakers very closely mounted to each other. I don’t really want to pull my couch towards screen because my screen is 132 inch ALR screen and I want comfortable viewing distance from this big of screen. Will this congested mounting affect sound quality or even make any sense? Thank you for making these videos and answering questions.
Follow this formula for placing your speakers.
th-cam.com/video/mINO0f5wRCc/w-d-xo.html
Follow this formula for placing the 2 Height speakers.
th-cam.com/video/vuZ56_zHLTI/w-d-xo.html
What if you have a drop ceiling and you can’t hang them to ceiling and what about timber matching our does that matter
My Height speakers aren’t timber matched to my ear level speakers. I can’t hear a difference.
For the drop ceiling, that could be tricky. Without looking at your particular setup I’m not sure what to recommend.
Have you got any advice for a slanted ceiling. Goes from 10ft on one side to 8 ft. Planning on using some cheap Boston acoustic bookshelf speakers. Mainly to see if I can get any value from Atmos in my room. Thanks for the video!
You could the mount the speakers directly to the ceiling and one set of speakers would be a further distance from the main listening position. This wouldn’t be a huge deal as long as your AVR has good room correction software (Audyssey, Dirac, Ypao etc) to correct for the difference in distance. The other option would be to use a 2 ft extension for the speakers on the 10 ft high section to get them down to the same level as the other 2 speakers. Good luck with your project!
I am wanting to expand into atmos. Just relocated to Germany and am a renter who has cement 8 1/2 foot tall ceilings. I was thinking about mounting like attitude speakers but I see what he is saying about bookshelf units. I am looking for prime bang for buck to get my system to 7.1.4 but haven't gotten any atmos speakers yet. Still on the fence 😅
You can get in ceiling speakers where the cone is adjustable, so you can direct the sound to the best spot.
I tried that with my original in-ceiling speakers and even with the tweeter aimed right at the MLP I was still getting a major drop off in sound. Some in-ceiling speakers are angled for the whole speaker. That’s probably a decent option.
The Height style speakers can have an advantage over bookshelfs. Many bookshelf style speakers do not offer a way to attach a mount without drilling into the cabinet. Height style speakers normally have provisions to attach a mount properly. They can be installed on the ceiling and properly aimed at the MLP by using a proper mount. As with any speakers in the system, be sure whatever speaker is used for Atmos can be crossed over correctly at 80Hz.
I like elevation speakers on the wall beause they take up less space and look better in my opionion.
There is a 5th option ( which i am using ) : Elipson Planet M speakers ( a french brand) , which is a perfect sphere shape ( sealed design), and you can buy their original in-ceiling mount . So in the end once installed , u can see it’s half a sphere that is protruding from your ceiling . It’s very aesthetically pleasing , minimalist , and i am happy with the sound with my of those 4 height speakers.
I think their marketing is not as strong in USA, hence the low exposure . but the sound quality is great.
Find a dealer in your area to try it. i think it’s a perfect solution as the design is sphere shape .
Hi @GeorgeTheaterAtHome thx for this video. I recommend that you turn your hight bookshelfs 90 degrees. I know it does not look as good as its does right now but to me it looks like you are wasting 50% of your hight frequencies and even worse you are adding ceiling reflections. Bookshelfs are designed to stand and that is especially true for the tweeter. Use them like an elevation speaker and you should have even better sound exoerience.
You could use in ceiling speakers with wide dispersion and this helps dramatically
My JBL in-ceiling speakers are able to be angled by about 20 degrees. I am able to point them directly at that main seating area.
Nice! I bet those JBL’s sound great. Thanks for watching!
I have my elevation speakers mounted on simple articulating mounts so even with their slanted fronts, I can still adjust and point them toward the listening position. I don't use the mounts that come with the speakers, although I did use them when I first got the speakers. I didn't like the fact that when using the mounts that come with the speakers, that even with that slanted front, they always point forward to the back of the room. I wanted them pointed at the listening position. In ceiling speakers are out of the question at my place as are the bouncy bounce type. The ceiling is sloped and much to high anyway.
Sounds like you’ve got the Height speakers dialed in. Very nice. Thanks for watching!!
I built my 9.2.4 home theater myself so my thoughts are influenced by my specific build.
1. I also have a Samsung 990 up-firing Atmos soundbar system and the effect can be quite spectacular. Not as great as in the dedicated theater but the first time I watched All of Us are Dead the perception of overhead sound was remarkable. And it may have been synthed and not true Atmos. I have no issues with its height/overhead effect.
2. I'm not sure about the effectiveness of height corner speakers but they seem so much easier to install than in-ceiling speakers. Crawling around inside attic insulation is hideous work. I refuse to ever go in the attic again.
3. Why use a non-aimable ceiling speaker? Mine aim/swivel both the mid/woofer and the tweeter.
4. Bookshelf speakers hanging from the ceiling are probably the best not for the reason you mention but because a well designed mating of driver and bookshelf enclosure is obviously going to provide better sound than installing any ol' driver in an 'infinite baffle' ceiling cavity. Now, a really well designed in-ceiling/enclosure might be almost as good but those generally still seem to have more compromises than a great sounding bookshelf speaker. Of course, a bunch of boxes hanging from the ceiling is not ideal esthetically.
If I had it to do over again or decided to redo my ATMOS/surround speakers, I would use book shelf speakers on gimbled mounts. I do have a limitation with a door close the one speaker mounting location which makes a book shelf speaker selection limited due to the depth of most book shelf speakers. I'm currently using Polk OHM5 speakers for ATMOS and Surround. I like them for my room because its small-ish and there is a door near the corner where a rear speaker is mounted. The speaker design/mount is so close to the wall it has no impact on the door's swing. The ceiling speakers mount at a 45 degree angle pointing directly at the listening location and are unobtrusive. ATMOS ceiling mounts would also work well, but I would need some very solid mounts that can support the weight of good heavy bookshelf speakers. The OHM's have built-in mounting keys that work at multiple angles and even come with a corner mounting bracket if needed. All rooms are different so each room has its own limitations.
The main problem I have with in-ceiling speakers is that they can end up too close to the listening position and the sound can become localised to them, i.e. you can hear the sound coming directly from each speaker, not as an Atmos positioned object. Having upfiring speakers allows the distance to the listener to effectively be doubled and perhaps pointing the speaker so that the reflected sound is directed at the listener can work well. I’ve never had an Atmos system but I’m moving house so will experiment with speaker placement by playing a stereo source just through the Atmos speakers. Sure, the sound will not be as clear as directly pointing the speakers from the ceiling, but I think the overall effect can be better if the same principles of pointing the speaker through the reflecting surface are followed. In the case of this video, front, up firing speakers probably reflect the sound off the first 1/4 of the ceiling down into the middle of the room, instead of at the listener. If the speakers were angled more at the listener through the reflection you might end up with another issue where sound can be heard directly from the speaker as well as through the reflection unless something (probably acoustically dampening) is placed in front of the speaker to block the direct sound. To me, it seems correctly angled and positioned up firing speakers that are above the listener to stop direct sound, could be a good way to do it. Last thing to note is that the reflecting surface would need to be as non-dampening as possible.
Can you share the type of mount you use for your bookshelves? I have Klispch elevation Atmos heights and they work great but I don’t have them “perfectly aimed” at my “sweet spot.” I’d like to get them on mounts and aim them directly to my sweet spot to really enhance the quality.
Yes they are “aimed down” but one still needs to “position” them for the best effect.
Btw - nothing wrong with bookshelf. Like you said…just need aimed on mounts. I think people assume you would just hang them and they’d be shooting sound outward in the air - obviously if mounted correctly like yours they’d work fine.
These are the mounts I used. Thanks for watching!
a.co/d/bglbgXr
@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome Thank you! I know you would think it’s not hard to find mounts, but my speakers are mounted on some framing that was done around the ductwork when the basement was finished. So I was looking for a set that would work being mounted without needing to suspend them through the ceiling on poles yet could still stick out enough and rotate. Those look like they’ll work perfectly!
Thank you!
I use on ceiling outdoor Yamaha speakers with 6 1/2 woofers . Use four and they work great and not to expensive. I have 12 foot ceilings.
Thanks for sharing and thanks for watching!
On my 7.4.4 system 8 of my surronds are Klipsch RP600m and 4 hung to the ceiling with some hangers I welder up.
I also plan to mount shelf speakers on my ceiling.
In what angle did you mount your shelf speakers in relation to the listening position?
I made this video to explain how to determine where to place Height speakers.
th-cam.com/video/vuZ56_zHLTI/w-d-xo.html
I have Rp-550SAs and initially I set them on my my towers as theyre supposed to go. I heard them but was not very impressed. I found you can install them as heights on the sides of the tv near the ceiling. Night and day difference. My soundstage sounded fuller and completely more immersive. I would love in ceiling but Don't want to do the work right now or get new speakers. And I will not do bookshelf speakers because I have seen people do it and it looks tacky.
Thanks for your video, very informative. I went from wondering "what the heck is Atmos" to much more dangerous thoughts along the lines of "yeah I think I'll go with the bookshelf for Atmos." Uh-oh. Recently I read audiophile and home theater is like riding the dragon and now it's uncomfortably funny. Just another 5 watts to the mains, oh and another pair of speakers, no big deal.
Also nice job with the cable management on the bookshelf speakers. How did you get the speaker wire into the ceiling, and once it's in the ceiling, how do you snake it to your amp? (might be obvious to people that know contracting but I most certainly do not!)
Glad you enjoyed the video! I ran the speaker cable before the drywall was installed. If that isn’t an option, here’s a video I made explaining how I ran cable in a finished room. Good luck with your project!
Ep 2: How I Wired Atmos Speakers
th-cam.com/video/hBgH92PPPaU/w-d-xo.html
Great topic. In my theater room I have in-ceilings and in another room I have some old satellite speakers, funny enough the Atmos effects are better with the little satellites, they trick us into believing it’s raining outside very often.
That’s interesting. I’m assuming your old satellites cost less $$ than the in-ceiling, yet perform better?
@@GeorgeTheaterAtHome Oh yeah. The in-ceilings are the Klispch CDT-3650-C II ($130 each). The satellites were part of a Yamaha 5.1 theater in a box set I bought in 2013, and I paid $119 for the whole set.
Just letting you know upfiring speakers work fine however there are a lot of variables to worry about such as angle of the speakers, ceiling height, ceiling material, listening position. If your listening position is too far away you end up running into the problem you were having with your in ceiling speakers the sound doesn't reach you. In my experience they work well for small spaces or if your significant other doesn't want speakers mounted everywhere in the living room. I do think wall mounted sounds better but is it night and day better well no not really if you you've optimized the positioning of the upfiring speakers. I watched an interview with Andrew Jones, he's a speaker designer talking about upfiring speakers and why he likes them. Basically he said instead of hearing exactly where the sound is coming from with a speaker firing straight at you the sound is dispersed above you and you know it came from somewhere above you and to the left so it may seem more immersive. I don't know if that's just what he was telling people to sell speakers but it kind of makes sense.
I really think they get a bad rap from Gene at Audioholics.
I agree with the localisation issue with in ceiling speakers if the ceiling is too low which is why the overall effect could be better with carefully positioned and angled up-firing speakers. The shape of your room will dictate what the best solution is.