Johnny Marr’s “input” into Andy Rourke’s Smiths’ basslines

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 80

  • @mcauliffej
    @mcauliffej  ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The full interview is now available to listen to here :
    play.acast.com/s/blindboy/johnny-marr

  • @EndoftheTownProductions
    @EndoftheTownProductions ปีที่แล้ว +160

    Those bass lines were worth more than 10 percent.

    • @BobDazify
      @BobDazify 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      Quite right. Morrissey and Marr screwed Andy.

    • @XY-xn4op
      @XY-xn4op 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Johnny is literally describing Andy and Johnny collaborating on writing the songs together. That’s the only possible interpretation of this description. The only thing missing is credit for cowriting the songs.

    • @EndoftheTownProductions
      @EndoftheTownProductions 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @@XY-xn4op Johnny comes across as cool regarding Andy and his contribution, but he still had 40 percent.

  • @evilduckoncrack
    @evilduckoncrack 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

    Alternative title: "Johnny Marr tries to give Andy Rourke as much credit as he can without undermining the validity of why he was only entitled to 10% of the royalties"

  • @tacomadc
    @tacomadc 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    Nice to see a guitarist giving their bass player credit. Andy's bass lines added so much to those songs.

  • @EndoftheTownProductions
    @EndoftheTownProductions 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +51

    People on internet = Marr wrote the bass lines.
    Johnny Marr = Rourke wrote them.

    • @XY-xn4op
      @XY-xn4op 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      People on the Internet: “Marr wrote the bass lines. And the drum parts. And then taught/told Mike how to play them.”
      Bassists and drummers on the Internet: “whut?”

    • @ericsilberstein667
      @ericsilberstein667 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah Rourke and Joyce contributed their parts.

    • @mufc99ok
      @mufc99ok 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Name one bad smiths song

    • @ethanc1719
      @ethanc1719 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@mufc99okmiserable lie, never had no one ever to name a few

    • @sgmeta
      @sgmeta 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@ethanc1719 Haha absolutely not

  • @deedee8568
    @deedee8568 ปีที่แล้ว +45

    But where's Andy's credit on the albums?

    • @xyzxyz997
      @xyzxyz997 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Never for bass lines

    • @craigie1973
      @craigie1973 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      But some of the instantly recognisable parts of Smiths songs are the bass lines

    • @db4035
      @db4035 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      ​@@craigie1973Should have defo got one on Barbarism.

    • @stevetaylor317
      @stevetaylor317 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That's true - the song is nothing but the bassline. Even on This Charming man his bassline totally changes the chord progression and massively improves it.@@db4035

    • @fifty_fifty_clown
      @fifty_fifty_clown 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@db4035100% this

  • @smashinglads
    @smashinglads ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Thanks for uploading this - I was the guy who asked the question in the Q+A at the end.
    Always intrigued me how Marr and Rourke collaborated. Those bass lines are so melodic and original. A lot of the time you find yourself humming the bass line as well as the guitar. And not just the obvious ones like 'Barbarism' or 'This Charming Man' - ALL OF THEM! The bass line 'Rusholme Ruffians' is pure genius.
    I've been a fan of the Smiths for 30+ years and in all of the books, documentaries, interviews etc etc the specific question... who wrote the bass lines for the Smiths and how did Marr and Rourke collaborate? has never really ever been asked (I don't think).
    Anyway, Marr's response was brilliant. Detailed and specific. So honest and complementary of Rourke's genius. 30+ years later I got my answer.
    Thanks again for uploading👍

    • @mcauliffej
      @mcauliffej  ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Agree with everything you said above and have a similar fan background learning most Smiths guitar riffs by ear back in ‘80’s with the help of video / audio bootlegs, etc..
      When I heard you ask that question I immediately whipped out my phone to record thinking.. jeez that’s a question I would like to asked..but hadn’t thought of it..
      it’s crazy with all the interviews done through the years I’ve never seen this question posed by any journalist anywhere..(though I did ask Andy once) …so kudos for asking !!

    • @smashinglads
      @smashinglads ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I was doing the same in the early 90's - before the internet 😬@@mcauliffej

    • @shanereynolds5380
      @shanereynolds5380 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      We have a lot in common. I'm also a Smiths fan 30+ years and the bass lines are a huge part of the music for me ('There is a Light' stands out for me in that regard). I had read various claims and counter-claims on various forums, but never really found an answer I was happy to believe. It is exactly the question I would have wanted answered by Marr himself. Thank you sir. @@smashinglads

    • @robclarkson5356
      @robclarkson5356 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah the 'Marr/Rourke/bass line creation' thing has always been a bit vague. Thanks for your question and thanks to Johnny for such a terrific answer. It's great to hear the specifics, at last!

    • @Malto_Dextrin
      @Malto_Dextrin 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Great question! Andy was an amazing and creative bass player but what I'm hearing from Marr, very modestly, is that he curated and shaped those bass lines.

  • @TheColeman83
    @TheColeman83 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +29

    The thing is if Andy had been in another band, lets say The Cure - he would have almost certainly got a song writing credit. But this is the curse of Lennon/McCartney, that's how Morrissey/Marr saw themselves. Andy was at the very least an arranger but definitely more than 10%

    • @shanereynolds5380
      @shanereynolds5380 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I agree that the bass lines are so integral, but I think what Marr is saying here is that Rourke was a creative personality whose music needed to be arranged.

    • @christopherwalker2228
      @christopherwalker2228 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      That's because Robert Smith is pure class. There are so many Cure albums where he is doing most of the heavy lifting but he still gives all band members equal credit.

    • @mumbles215
      @mumbles215 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      They should have been full time members not hired cats, but they should. It have gotten a writing credit. If one did not write the chords or melody or lyrics then they did not write the song. Look at gamble and huff.

    • @PM-xu2nq
      @PM-xu2nq 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@mumbles215the bass line is literally part of the melody/chords (infantile way to put it) harmonic progression of the song, you haven’t a clue what you’re on about.

    • @mr_bassman6685
      @mr_bassman6685 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@PM-xu2nq I've been researching music copyright, and generally, legally speaking, melodies (or 'hooks') and lyrics are the copyrightable elements of a musical composition (the recording itself is also copyrightable).
      Harmony (chord progressions), rhythm and arrangement generally aren't, unless they're distinct enough to serve as a 'hook'. Otherwise that would be copyrighting basic elements of music (imagine if blues/jazz/rock musicians got sued all the time because someone copyrighted the chord progression in a 12-bar blues).
      Elements like guitar or bass parts would technically fall under arrangement, unless they're memorable enough that someone could recognise the song from it alone (e.g. "Ice Ice Baby"-Queen sued and got co-writing credit because someone would recognise "Under Pressure" from the bass line/intro pretty quickly). It's pretty context-dependent, though, so sometimes it's not clear-cut.
      Andy could have argued for a co-writing credit for Barbarism Begins at Home since his bass line is distinctive enough to be a hook, but that was likely precluded by him settling for a lump sum and no further co-writing claims during the lawsuit.

  • @ericsilberstein667
    @ericsilberstein667 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Yes Andy Rourke was a great bass player (RIP) and Mike Joyce a great drummer. One of the best rhythm sections in music. They played their instruments to perfection, 100%, while Morrissey and Marr played theirs.
    Each member was more than capable of playing their parts at a high level, equally.
    And yes they all contributed to the music and collaborated as a band should. That’s a band. That’s how music works.
    They were The Smiths. Great alt band.
    RIP Andy. 😔

  • @maljo4604
    @maljo4604 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Amazing vid mate, thanks for the upload

  • @EndoftheTownProductions
    @EndoftheTownProductions 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Johnny gives credit to Andy, but Andy only got 10%.

  • @ThisIsNotaUniversity
    @ThisIsNotaUniversity ปีที่แล้ว +14

    so in other words Rourke should have shared writing credits. He did no less than Adam Clayton from U2 but wasn't credited as a writer

    • @binxboi7156
      @binxboi7156 ปีที่แล้ว

      100%

    • @StephenMerchant-up8sg
      @StephenMerchant-up8sg ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Or Bruce Thomas from The Attractions on Elvis Costellos 70's and 80's hits. Elvis has admitted as much

    • @ewetoo
      @ewetoo 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      exactly

    • @ziggypop79
      @ziggypop79 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Did way more than Adam Clayton

    • @NewFalconerRecords
      @NewFalconerRecords 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      The trouble is, if the song is already written, and even if the bass player (or second guitar player, keyboard player, whatever) comes up with a totally iconic line that is seemingly intrinsic to the song, you could do an acoustic version of the song and completely ignore that secondary musical bit. There's a difference between composition and arrangement. It's a fine line.

  • @TheInfamousLegend27
    @TheInfamousLegend27 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    this!
    needs to be shared everywhere to diminish the misinformation of Johnny writing all the basslines that ppl *_still_* believe to this day. Andy made wonderful music, he was no session musician. People must realise that Andy partly creates that special quality Smiths songs have

    • @Dreyno
      @Dreyno 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I suppose guitar players do have a tendency to play complicated, spidery bass lines that bass players don’t. I’m a guitarist who dabbles in bass and was filling in for a friend’s band for 3 gigs. The songs were all originals and the bass lines had been done by the singer/guitarist and you could tell. They weren’t anchoring the song in the way the bass line of the one (Neil Young) cover we did in the set. Lots of notes on the D and G string, little flourishes that you couldn’t really hear and just too many notes overall.
      You can see why Andy Rourke’s bass lines might’ve been attributed to Johnny Marr. They were up and down the neck and bouncing around. Although Andy had all the bits that anchored the songs exactly where they needed to be. So good.

    • @ceruleanstone
      @ceruleanstone 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      ​@@Dreyno Funny, I always thought that Andy wrote his own basslines and was puzzled on the rare occasion that I'd hear someone claim that Marr wrote them for him. Not that I knew for certain, but it seemed so obvious. They just really sound like they were written by two different people playing off each other, rather than one person expressing their particular creative vision.
      Andy's basslines were so interesting in part because they're so unexpected, while still working so well, which I think Marr expresses in this interview. It's an effect that's rare for one person to achieve, at least in rock music--to write in two very different musical "personalities" so consistently. You'd expect either for more elements cross over from one instrument to the other, or for the basslines to be demoted to mainly a support role for the guitar.
      That's my take as someone who plays guitar and bass and taught themselves how to play both instruments simultaneously, but who slightly prefers bass. Despite Marr's brilliance, I don't think he ever could have come with parts like that on his own.

    • @Dreyno
      @Dreyno 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@ceruleanstone I think a lot of the people who say that aren’t musicians themselves. I understand why they might think it but when you play the instruments you know they’re written by different people people.

    • @ceruleanstone
      @ceruleanstone 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Dreyno You're probably right. Music is a language, and as you become more fluent, you start to notice and understand all sorts of stuff that you otherwise would have missed.

    • @Dreyno
      @Dreyno 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@ceruleanstone I know people who love a song and can’t pick out the guitar or bass from the overall sound. Only when they start to play do they appreciate what actually makes the sounds they like.

  • @Malto_Dextrin
    @Malto_Dextrin ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for posting, that's really interesting and rather sweet.

  • @geneburton-pearce
    @geneburton-pearce 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I've recently been listening to a lot of Smiths demos posted on here that I'd not heard before. In a lot of instances, Marr is only strumming basic chords (the "proper" guitar arrangements we're all familiar with were obviously fleshed our later); whereas most of Rourke's basslines are pretty much as on the final versions. It would appear from this that the basslines were completed before the guitar parts; this being the case it's hard to believe that what Marr came up with on guitar wasn't informed/influenced by what Rourke had already come up with on bass. Which is an incredibly long winded way of saying that Rourke should definitely have been given writing credits.

  • @Dani-El.
    @Dani-El. ปีที่แล้ว +5

    What's the interviewer got on his head / face?

    • @mcauliffej
      @mcauliffej  ปีที่แล้ว +4

      A plastic shopping bag, shaped into a balaclava. He always wears it in public performances for anonymity. His podcast is unique and highly recommended.

  • @zouchmusic
    @zouchmusic 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Considering the complexity of the basslines, you could only do that if you felt them. You can tell only Andy could come up with them if he could play them.

  • @simac3880
    @simac3880 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Good to hear how much you valued Rourke. Shame, then, you tried so hard to stop him getting paid royalties for the music, so that you and Morrissey would make money from the Smiths but not him and Joyce. Very many songwriters don't take that choice. Your choice left Rourke in financial distress for decades until he died. Decent band members look after each other. You and Morissey thought only pragmatically, only about yourselves. You two got lost in industry rules and forgot about human values.

  • @LuckyFruitRacing
    @LuckyFruitRacing 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Imagine interviewing someone with the tea towel of the christmas ham wrapped around your face while you vape the whole time. Is there a context to that bizarre display?

    • @mcauliffej
      @mcauliffej  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      JFGI

  • @ST-xg3gy
    @ST-xg3gy ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This was great. Curious, does anyone know what Morrissey's approach to songwriting is? Does he strum an acoustic, sit at a piano?

    • @mcauliffej
      @mcauliffej  ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Huh? He doesn’t play any instruments..
      Tambourine excepted - but is that really an instrument?!
      “Have you heard him play piano?” 😂
      Death of a Disco excepted..but was that really playing piano ?!

    • @shurbret9923
      @shurbret9923 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      In the solo era, he would listen to the music and ask the players to make edits like “extend the verse a couple bars, “take the chorus part and make it the bridge.” Etc. Then show up an song over it.

  • @stuartwray6175
    @stuartwray6175 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    "I always think of bass players...their best friend in the band is"
    The drummer?

    • @mcauliffej
      @mcauliffej  11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Yes that’s what he said (just after vid stopped)… and is generally true

  • @comettripper
    @comettripper ปีที่แล้ว

    ❤❤❤

  • @filmzilla
    @filmzilla หลายเดือนก่อน

    "The Smiths Are Never Getting Back Together" th-cam.com/video/5VUoaHRcj4c/w-d-xo.html

  • @kdchmln
    @kdchmln หลายเดือนก่อน

    Why is he being interviewed by a vape cloud in a Halloween mask?

    • @mcauliffej
      @mcauliffej  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Just some guy called Blindboy from. Limerick who gets millions of listens to his unique podcast.. Johnny Marr is a big fan hence the long interview. It’s not a Halloween mask either btw.
      Was gonna say JFGI, but here I’ll help you with your perplexity ;)
      amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/jan/12/i-have-a-bag-on-my-head-deal-with-it-is-blindboy-the-perfect-podcaster

  • @lorin6673
    @lorin6673 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Johnny, you were not a good friend to Andy.

  • @ziggypop79
    @ziggypop79 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Imagine retiring at 24, marr did effectively to most listeners

    • @Malto_Dextrin
      @Malto_Dextrin 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      No way! he’s been a prolific musician ever since. He’s played with Pretenders, Electronic, the the, modest mouse, pet shop boys and many others, including soundtracks like James Bond and Inception.