I just found your channel this morning. Yay! I feel like you are right about the rules. Every system has rules, but they might not be the ones we are used to. I've seen some folks getting upset with the ending, because they were trying to just "timey wimey" it using their existing conception of Doctor Who, but I agree, I feel like RTD has shifted things into a more fantasy/supernatural type space, and that Ruby herself has some sway over reality (making it snow indicates that and seems to be some kind of emotional expression). The timeline reminds me a little of a mix of turn-left, and also had the vibe of "Years and years" another RTD show which explores the future and the passage of time. But what was this timeline, but an expression to some extent of Rubys experience/fears of abandonment. When it happens, the Doctor suddenly vanishes, the TARDIS key doesn't work for her, anyone she tries to get help with in approaching the lady abandons her. She doesn't know why, and the "Ask her!" bit reminds me of the feeling of someone being shunned, but not understanding the "Why". Another interesting part, remembering "Blue Yonder", the doctor says: "It's funny, cos I wonder where the Tardis goes at random. Maybe it lands on some outcrop by the sea. ... Time passes and the city falls. It all gets swept away. And there's the Tardis... still on its outcrop... by the sea." Which I found interesting, because there was the TARDIS, sitting on an outcrop by the sea, as time passed.
I honestly tend to like better the episodes where not everything is explained. like the one where 10 encountered that creature that repeated his words. they are much scarier this way. you can see there's a logic to them, and you use that logic to "defeat" them, but you never fully understand them. its whatever were trying to do with the toy maker and Maestro, but in my opinion, this is the first one that actually worked.
We've seen before that knots are like a kind of circuitry - the circle that the Doctor broke is some sort of fixed-event regulator. Once the circle is broken, different timelines diverge until the paradox it creates resolves and thw orhpaned timeline is repaired. My opinion of what Old Ruby says to people is that she lets then know its an orphaned timeline and its ultimately doomed, so they aren't 'real', and that Ruby was part of kf the reaskn why. That would explain the looks of disgust. But it ultimately doesn't matter what the haunting figure says - we just need to arrive at a point where Ruby resolves the paradox.
I love that this story isn't fully explained to the audience, and we're left to make up our own minds about this mystery. Not every story needs to have a rational explanation, especially folk horror stories. It had vibes of Don't Look Now, The Wicker Man or even The Quiet Earth.
Im a big ol fan of this episode, my interpretation of what happened was that as the doctor broke the circle, the magic that was imbued within created a split timeline to reverse that action by using Ruby to change the fact about Roger ap Gwilliam that the doctor had said earlier, rewriting history and changing the timeline so the doctor never did break the circle. I’m personally not sure if the “Mad Jack” thing was preexisting prior to the step on the circle. A bit like if no one’s around does a falling tree make noise. Would that paper have said anything without reading it? Very good episode with lots of things to think about and I really love it.
I don't know what the theories are about the timeline but I'm 99% sure it's due to condensed season. Also, I think "Devils Chord" explained Bi-Generation as well as we're gonna get. But also, it does it in a way that really fits the different things they added like magic and soul elements. 15 said facing that force AKA the Toy Maker nearly destroyed him. It tore his soul in two. Meaning, what the Toy Maker did, what he said, what he implied about the Doctor and the consequences of them. It did what the Master failed to do all these years. It broke the DOCTORS hearts, it tore his soul, so that the only thing he could do was to literally draw from a future version of himself to heal. The doctors soul literally splintered time, in order to heal.
THANKS for this!!! IIRC (from what RTD says), the fairies had trapped (the spirit of?) Jack, The Doctor and Ruby freed it when they violated the circle, the fairies dealt punishment--no Doctor, Ruby having to deal with the loop. With Jack thwarted, the fairies forgave her--and now, this is me--waited for her to die to close the loop (back?). Editing You is saying a lot of what I've been watching in terms of reactions. And yes, mysteries on top of mysteries.
this episode was so dark and heart breaking to watch, just seeing Kate and Ruby's mum abandon her like that felt so out of character, you knew something was serious
Someone theorized that this was a timeloop and that when Ruby died the first time she was made into a sort of wraith. Which, actually, if that's true, that would be a similarity to Aaaalllll the way back to the first revamp, in Ecelstons Era. The time wraithes that were like antibodies to the universe. So what I'm wondering is if, during like the 5 or 6th loop (just spitballiing a number.) When Wraith Ruby went back, she actually added the note about Mad Jack. Knowing her young self would be curious and read the notes. After all, old Ruby did say something to the effect of "I've tried so hard" which makes me think she's been through this more than just once. Another theory I came up with yesterday was, at the end of the episode we hear old Ruby whisper through time, "Don't Step." But the voice was ethereal and quiet I don't know about anyone else but, for me at first it sounded like "Don't Stare" Well, human nature, we're gonna look, we're gonna stare. 2 possibilities. 1. They see the old woman and the young Ruby and think one is a ghost they run from both. 2. If there is something around Ruby that changes her appearance or reshapes her presence somehow, maybe a combination of magic and the perception filter cancel each other out. And they see what Ruby really is.
There were no multiple time loops. The episode itself and the behind the scenes both confirm this by Ruby stating she's ONLY been to Wales 3 times and by RTD explaining Ruby has to spend her entire life punished for the disrespect she showed. At the end she is forgiven and following death acts as her own omen to close the circle
@monkeyzorr3090 Rule 1: Russel always lies... or is that Stephen? Lol All jokes aside, I'll have to watch it again, I didn't really see a point where the episode itself said there was no multiple time loops or a branching universe. Plus, if you couple it with Dot and Bubble where both Ruby and the Doctor acknowledge that they've seen Susan Twist before but, Ruby just can't quite say when. She remembers the Hiker, but if old Ruby truly closed the loop, shouldn't that mean that never happened? And as far as closing the loop goes, doesn't a loop also have the connotation that someone goes through the same thing at least once? So, if old Ruby did go through it more than once and ended up back at that moment before the TARDIS even lands, couldn't she have written the note herself about "Mad Jack?" As a way to push her young self along to break it the second or third time around?
One of the reasons I loved RTD seasons previously is how real it felt - it felt like real British people. S.M and C.C just felt... fairytaley and unrealistic with the writing. I've been in pubs with people exactly like that at the start, it's such a British (and maybe NZ / Aus?) sense of humour to wind up people like that. The people have felt so real this season
There's a general election campaign going on here in the UK, election date itself is 4th July. The storyline about a government collapsing in chaos feels a bit close to reality right now!
I bet RTD was punching the air when the election was announced earlier in the week. Impeccable timing for the episode! I'm seeing a lot of American reactors referring to the campaign as representative of Trump, which works on some level, but the slogan is much closer to Boris Johnson's "Build Back Better."
This is gonna be a goodun even better than the prior in my humble opinion . My theory is Ruby is an actual Timelord or at least she is from Gallifray . I have watched this episode but not with you yet . But will do I gotta get outa bed 🛏 it's cold ❄ in my corner of Aus but will do in a bit
I just found your channel this morning. Yay!
I feel like you are right about the rules. Every system has rules, but they might not be the ones we are used to. I've seen some folks getting upset with the ending, because they were trying to just "timey wimey" it using their existing conception of Doctor Who, but I agree, I feel like RTD has shifted things into a more fantasy/supernatural type space, and that Ruby herself has some sway over reality (making it snow indicates that and seems to be some kind of emotional expression).
The timeline reminds me a little of a mix of turn-left, and also had the vibe of "Years and years" another RTD show which explores the future and the passage of time. But what was this timeline, but an expression to some extent of Rubys experience/fears of abandonment.
When it happens, the Doctor suddenly vanishes, the TARDIS key doesn't work for her, anyone she tries to get help with in approaching the lady abandons her. She doesn't know why, and the "Ask her!" bit reminds me of the feeling of someone being shunned, but not understanding the "Why".
Another interesting part, remembering "Blue Yonder", the doctor says:
"It's funny, cos I wonder where the Tardis goes at random. Maybe it lands on some outcrop by the sea. ... Time passes and the city falls. It all gets swept away. And there's the Tardis... still on its outcrop... by the sea."
Which I found interesting, because there was the TARDIS, sitting on an outcrop by the sea, as time passed.
I honestly tend to like better the episodes where not everything is explained. like the one where 10 encountered that creature that repeated his words. they are much scarier this way. you can see there's a logic to them, and you use that logic to "defeat" them, but you never fully understand them. its whatever were trying to do with the toy maker and Maestro, but in my opinion, this is the first one that actually worked.
We've seen before that knots are like a kind of circuitry - the circle that the Doctor broke is some sort of fixed-event regulator. Once the circle is broken, different timelines diverge until the paradox it creates resolves and thw orhpaned timeline is repaired.
My opinion of what Old Ruby says to people is that she lets then know its an orphaned timeline and its ultimately doomed, so they aren't 'real', and that Ruby was part of kf the reaskn why. That would explain the looks of disgust.
But it ultimately doesn't matter what the haunting figure says - we just need to arrive at a point where Ruby resolves the paradox.
I love that this story isn't fully explained to the audience, and we're left to make up our own minds about this mystery. Not every story needs to have a rational explanation, especially folk horror stories. It had vibes of Don't Look Now, The Wicker Man or even The Quiet Earth.
Just stumbled across your channel, and really enjoyed your thoughts on the episode! You've got another new subscriber! :D
Im a big ol fan of this episode, my interpretation of what happened was that as the doctor broke the circle, the magic that was imbued within created a split timeline to reverse that action by using Ruby to change the fact about Roger ap Gwilliam that the doctor had said earlier, rewriting history and changing the timeline so the doctor never did break the circle. I’m personally not sure if the “Mad Jack” thing was preexisting prior to the step on the circle. A bit like if no one’s around does a falling tree make noise. Would that paper have said anything without reading it? Very good episode with lots of things to think about and I really love it.
I don't know what the theories are about the timeline but I'm 99% sure it's due to condensed season.
Also, I think "Devils Chord" explained Bi-Generation as well as we're gonna get. But also, it does it in a way that really fits the different things they added like magic and soul elements.
15 said facing that force AKA the Toy Maker nearly destroyed him. It tore his soul in two.
Meaning, what the Toy Maker did, what he said, what he implied about the Doctor and the consequences of them.
It did what the Master failed to do all these years. It broke the DOCTORS hearts, it tore his soul, so that the only thing he could do was to literally draw from a future version of himself to heal. The doctors soul literally splintered time, in order to heal.
THANKS for this!!!
IIRC (from what RTD says), the fairies had trapped (the spirit of?) Jack, The Doctor and Ruby freed it when they violated the circle, the fairies dealt punishment--no Doctor, Ruby having to deal with the loop. With Jack thwarted, the fairies forgave her--and now, this is me--waited for her to die to close the loop (back?).
Editing You is saying a lot of what I've been watching in terms of reactions. And yes, mysteries on top of mysteries.
this episode was so dark and heart breaking to watch, just seeing Kate and Ruby's mum abandon her like that felt so out of character, you knew something was serious
Someone theorized that this was a timeloop and that when Ruby died the first time she was made into a sort of wraith.
Which, actually, if that's true, that would be a similarity to Aaaalllll the way back to the first revamp, in Ecelstons Era. The time wraithes that were like antibodies to the universe.
So what I'm wondering is if, during like the 5 or 6th loop (just spitballiing a number.) When Wraith Ruby went back, she actually added the note about Mad Jack. Knowing her young self would be curious and read the notes. After all, old Ruby did say something to the effect of "I've tried so hard" which makes me think she's been through this more than just once.
Another theory I came up with yesterday was, at the end of the episode we hear old Ruby whisper through time, "Don't Step." But the voice was ethereal and quiet I don't know about anyone else but, for me at first it sounded like "Don't Stare"
Well, human nature, we're gonna look, we're gonna stare. 2 possibilities.
1. They see the old woman and the young Ruby and think one is a ghost they run from both.
2. If there is something around Ruby that changes her appearance or reshapes her presence somehow, maybe a combination of magic and the perception filter cancel each other out. And they see what Ruby really is.
There were no multiple time loops. The episode itself and the behind the scenes both confirm this by Ruby stating she's ONLY been to Wales 3 times and by RTD explaining Ruby has to spend her entire life punished for the disrespect she showed. At the end she is forgiven and following death acts as her own omen to close the circle
@monkeyzorr3090 Rule 1: Russel always lies... or is that Stephen? Lol
All jokes aside, I'll have to watch it again, I didn't really see a point where the episode itself said there was no multiple time loops or a branching universe.
Plus, if you couple it with Dot and Bubble where both Ruby and the Doctor acknowledge that they've seen Susan Twist before but, Ruby just can't quite say when. She remembers the Hiker, but if old Ruby truly closed the loop, shouldn't that mean that never happened?
And as far as closing the loop goes, doesn't a loop also have the connotation that someone goes through the same thing at least once?
So, if old Ruby did go through it more than once and ended up back at that moment before the TARDIS even lands, couldn't she have written the note herself about "Mad Jack?" As a way to push her young self along to break it the second or third time around?
One of the reasons I loved RTD seasons previously is how real it felt - it felt like real British people. S.M and C.C just felt... fairytaley and unrealistic with the writing.
I've been in pubs with people exactly like that at the start, it's such a British (and maybe NZ / Aus?) sense of humour to wind up people like that. The people have felt so real this season
There's a general election campaign going on here in the UK, election date itself is 4th July. The storyline about a government collapsing in chaos feels a bit close to reality right now!
I bet RTD was punching the air when the election was announced earlier in the week. Impeccable timing for the episode! I'm seeing a lot of American reactors referring to the campaign as representative of Trump, which works on some level, but the slogan is much closer to Boris Johnson's "Build Back Better."
Episode 879.
This is gonna be a goodun even better than the prior in my humble opinion . My theory is Ruby is an actual Timelord or at least she is from Gallifray . I have watched this episode but not with you yet . But will do I gotta get outa bed 🛏 it's cold ❄ in my corner of Aus but will do in a bit