Great video comparing these. Had my 22 REA solar panels with the IQ 8HC Enphase inverters installed by Heatable. Already generating over 40kWh. You guys are the best in the market.
Solar Irradiance (when the sun is unobscured) is the same summer or winter and can exceed 1000 W/m^2 even in winter when the sun is out and there are big puffy white clouds in the sky. There are less hours of sun and more cloudy days in winter, but if your tilt is right you can still get an irradiance of 1000 W/m^2 any time of year. Great video though.
I struggle with microinverters... I've got 430W panels fitted, but am seeing peaks of 525W per panel generated, and regularly over 430W, so MI's seem to not fit well and very expensive... I may have to look at optimisers for my next set of installs as they will be W, N and E facing.
I opted for IQ8ACs rather than the 7+, paired with 420W panels. I live on the south coast so higher than average UK irradiance. My system’s max ac output is 5kW rather than the 4kW it would have been with the 7+ inverters. I know it’s summer but my system has been generating above 4kW (often near the 5kW level) for quite a while on the sunnier days. Yet it still fires up before 6am despite my array being shaded (west facing) in the morning. I can’t imagine I’m losing a lot of generation at the low end. I’m pretty convinced the 8AC was the right choice for me
Lets say i have a 300w microinverter connected to grid and producing 300w, and that my load goes to 500w. What happens to the inverter output? Will it do some sort of load sharing keeping at max power (300w) while the remaining 200w come from the grid? Or will it just shut off and all my power comes from the grid? Thanks!
How do the Enphase inverterscompare to the inverter on the Powerwall 3 for startup voltage? Is there a point where gretaer than X panels in a string the Tesla is better in low-light conditions?
Hi Adrian, great question. We recently had a full training and discovery day with Tesla on the PW3 at our HQ. Tesla have a very low MPPT and start up voltage of 80v, depending on the panel you could go as low as two on one string. As you point out, the more you add the greater the voltage and with such a low activation point we may see equal or even greater performance than with micro's. We'll commission a test.
@@AdrianColes I have both a string inverter and Enphase. If you have a lot of roof space and no shade issues, a string inverter with 1 MPPT per direction is the cheapest option. But if you (or your neighbour) has trees, chimneys or other objects causing moving shade, the Enphase system is great. You can just add panels from any brand in any direction and it will work, and if your roof is small an Enphase system is cheaper because it generally lasts much longer than a string inverter. Also it is super rendundant, so if one inverter or panel does have an issue, the rest will keep working. This is nice when you need to wait for someone to come by or really don't want to replace just one faulty panel because new ones look too different. You can just wait until more fail or if it's worth upgrading more of them in a way that looks good. For my SW roof I have a dual MPPT string inverter with shade issues. The Tigo optimizers were pretty useless as was tech support. i went for cheap GNE HoneyBee optimizers instead which work great, automatically adjusting the voltage to match the string current. Almost like having SolarEdge Optimizers. Just some general advice. Don't be too focussed on startup voltage. Choose the right inverter type for the home.
@@Heatableexcellent, I love data! It’s basically the decision I have to make for my own install (preferably via Heatable), i.e. Tesla battery, or Giv all-in-one and Enphase.
@@TurreTuntematon if you don't have shade issues on your roof it may be a less expensive option to install a hybrid string inverter and add batteries later. Enphase does offer great hardware, but it can get expensive if you need a lot of it.
output of 480 va, how you will you connect this with topcon panel max power output is 480, there will be power clipping issues there will be loss when micro inverters are used
Interesting to hear the the Enphase System Controller is coming to the UK. Any idea whether this can be used with a Enphase solar array and a non-enphase AC battery solution? Would be great to isolate from the grid during power outages and still be able to charge/use the battery and solar.
@@HeatableThat would be brilliant. Great channel, enjoying the content and one of the best explanations on the Enphase micro inverters and the importance of pairing to panel size I’ve seen 👏
With Enphase you pay for quality and excellent customer support. Having 25 years of warranty and no high voltage cables on the roof just brings peace of mind 😊
I noticed that one post said IQ7 and IQ8 inverters cannot be mixed on the same system. Is that true? I have 20 405W panels that were installed in late 2020 with IQ7 inverters. I just added six 430W bifacial panels and the company doing the install said they were unable to use the IQ8M inverters, specified in the initial quote, and substituted the IQ7+ inverters. So, if I wanted to change out some of the older panels for the newer, higher producing panels would I need to change all of the inverters to the IQ8 model if I wanted to get maximum output? I live in Southern California.
I like the thinking behind micro inverters and went on your website to arrange a quote, the company that rang me back couldn't supply them or even quote me for the REA panels 😢, are they a myth? 🤔
Hey, we have the rights to REA panels meaning no one else can install them in the UK. If you've contact any other company this would be why. If you'd like a quote for REA panels and micro inverters, head to the link in the description or speak to one of our team on 0330 113 1333.
Hi there, I'm very new to this and so still learning but I've just had a quote from you for 11 × 440W REA Power FUSION 2 paired with 11 × Enphase IQ8MC-72-M-INT · 325W. Why would you not pair these with the IQ8HC microinverters given what you advised in this video? Thanks in advance.
Hey Mike, there's a price difference between the IQ8MC, AC & HC. If you contact your Heatable design consultant, they'll be able to get you a no cost upgrade to the 440w panel with the integrated IQ8HC (there are around 200 left of the first 3000 we got).
@@Heatable I'm confused by this too - my system is due to be installed on Monday with 440 panels and IQ8MCs but it sounds like you're not recommending these and instead the HC's?
I have one IQ7+ that just failed at two years and six weeks after installation. Looks like it’s going to be a nightmare to have it replaced within the warranty and I ‘ll have to pay a considerable sum. Should have gone with a string inverter in my garage. Hindsight; such a beautiful thing
You have warranty of 25 years so you would not have to pay anything. These fail very seldom and even then you know exactly which micro so you can swop that one out.
@@TurreTuntematon Enphase forwarded contact details of installers in my area. Two of them responded initially and when I gave more details about the failed microinverter, both companies stopped responding to my emails. Furthermore, Enphase emailed me the warranty terms which clearly covers ONLY the cost of the microinverter. Labor and equipment for roof access is NOT included. Based on my personal experience, I can say with huge confidence that the Enphase 25 year warranty is totally USELESS.
@@serraios1989 So what company installed it as they are supposed to swop it out and Enphase will pay for that work as per their warranty? This is how it works globally. Sounds like you have dodgy installers. You can also swop it out yourself as swopping one micro is plug and play and not rocket science.
@@TurreTuntematon The installers went bust. I can easily remove the broken micro and install the new one, however to access the roof I need to hire a cherry picker that costs £800 Enphase the best they can do is refund me £120 which is the cost of the failed IQ7+, as it’s been discontinued. They will not even send to me an IQ7a which is still available, but costs £30 more.
@@serraios1989 Ok, that’s a pity and I understand. I would just get Enphase to reimburse you the IQ7 and then you buy yourself the IQ7A and replace it the next time your roof needs cleaning or something fixed anyways.
You can not mix iq7 and iq8 series micro inverters on the same envoy. So if you want to expand in the future, the iq7 series may be a dead end. With the iq7 series the micro inverter can work without an envoy (nice for small cheap installs without monitoring cost). The iq8 series will not do that from what I have read. A nice advantage of the iq8 series is that it has a buffer that will gather any sunlight in low light conditions without starting up the ac conversion side of the inverter. Once enough has been gathered, it will start up the inverter, convert the buffered energy to AC for home use and shut down again if there is still too little light. So it powers down the ac side and starts gathering energy again for the next burst. And that is on top of the extra efficiency of this series. This may be worth it for typical UK weather conditions. On my NE roof in the Netherlands it works great and beats the SW roof with a string inverter on many cloudy days.
I would mix the different type of inverters based on which way the panels are facing. Compared to The Netherlands the south of England gets more sun, thats something to keep in mind. With a battery system these micro inverters are actually less efficient because the AC needs to be converted back to DC again for the battery At the moment micro inverters only benefit is AC power and individual panel control, in my opinion not worth the cost yet, just invest in better panels and inverter
The inherent advantage of micros are low voltage installation on roof (fire risks) and panel level monitoring. Couple that with 25 years of warranty and fantastic customer support then it’s a good value proposition. But yes, you can get cheaper and less safe DC systems for sure.
@@TurreTuntematon The Warranty is a nice addition ...but at the end of the day is it such a great selling point? I mean these are really very reliable units and the *individual* cost is relatively small unlike a single String Inverter so what are you actually getting? a couple of hundred quid saving when one does fail in 1-25 years? how many have to fail before your actually bothered about that Warranty and if you did have multiple units die at the same time its almost certainly due to some external factor not covered by that warranty ..and is your installer even going to be in business (or Enphase for that matter ) in 25 years? I don't discount its a nice offering but in the scheme of things its fairly inconsequential when picking which system is right for you...though to be very clear I do like their offerings generally.
Great video comparing these. Had my 22 REA solar panels with the IQ 8HC Enphase inverters installed by Heatable. Already generating over 40kWh. You guys are the best in the market.
Thanks for your kind words, great to hear your system is producing well. All the best :)
Solar Irradiance (when the sun is unobscured) is the same summer or winter and can exceed 1000 W/m^2 even in winter when the sun is out and there are big puffy white clouds in the sky. There are less hours of sun and more cloudy days in winter, but if your tilt is right you can still get an irradiance of 1000 W/m^2 any time of year. Great video though.
Thanks for your comment - always appreciate any feedback!
The IQ7A output wattage might be higher but the bit people miss is the lower amp input.
Yes, that's a good point. Lots of newer panels are higher ampage now too
I struggle with microinverters... I've got 430W panels fitted, but am seeing peaks of 525W per panel generated, and regularly over 430W, so MI's seem to not fit well and very expensive...
I may have to look at optimisers for my next set of installs as they will be W, N and E facing.
IQ8HC (peak 560W at a DC:AC ratio of 1.4) will work well here
Brilliant channel 😊 Subscribed!
Thanks so much - great to have you here 💪
I opted for IQ8ACs rather than the 7+, paired with 420W panels. I live on the south coast so higher than average UK irradiance. My system’s max ac output is 5kW rather than the 4kW it would have been with the 7+ inverters. I know it’s summer but my system has been generating above 4kW (often near the 5kW level) for quite a while on the sunnier days. Yet it still fires up before 6am despite my array being shaded (west facing) in the morning. I can’t imagine I’m losing a lot of generation at the low end. I’m pretty convinced the 8AC was the right choice for me
Hi Steve, the south is blessed with the sun and it sounds like the AC's are paying off well. Great to hear your seeing solid generation. :)
That’s a fantastic setup. Congrats 👍🏻
Lets say i have a 300w microinverter connected to grid and producing 300w, and that my load goes to 500w. What happens to the inverter output? Will it do some sort of load sharing keeping at max power (300w) while the remaining 200w come from the grid? Or will it just shut off and all my power comes from the grid? Thanks!
Yes it will take any additional from the grid.
How do the Enphase inverterscompare to the inverter on the Powerwall 3 for startup voltage? Is there a point where gretaer than X panels in a string the Tesla is better in low-light conditions?
Hi Adrian, great question. We recently had a full training and discovery day with Tesla on the PW3 at our HQ. Tesla have a very low MPPT and start up voltage of 80v, depending on the panel you could go as low as two on one string. As you point out, the more you add the greater the voltage and with such a low activation point we may see equal or even greater performance than with micro's. We'll commission a test.
@@AdrianColes I have both a string inverter and Enphase. If you have a lot of roof space and no shade issues, a string inverter with 1 MPPT per direction is the cheapest option.
But if you (or your neighbour) has trees, chimneys or other objects causing moving shade, the Enphase system is great. You can just add panels from any brand in any direction and it will work, and if your roof is small an Enphase system is cheaper because it generally lasts much longer than a string inverter.
Also it is super rendundant, so if one inverter or panel does have an issue, the rest will keep working. This is nice when you need to wait for someone to come by or really don't want to replace just one faulty panel because new ones look too different. You can just wait until more fail or if it's worth upgrading more of them in a way that looks good.
For my SW roof I have a dual MPPT string inverter with shade issues. The Tigo optimizers were pretty useless as was tech support. i went for cheap GNE HoneyBee optimizers instead which work great, automatically adjusting the voltage to match the string current. Almost like having SolarEdge Optimizers.
Just some general advice. Don't be too focussed on startup voltage. Choose the right inverter type for the home.
@@Heatableexcellent, I love data! It’s basically the decision I have to make for my own install (preferably via Heatable), i.e. Tesla battery, or Giv all-in-one and Enphase.
Great info. I would probably go with Enphase solar first and then add battery later as they are dropping in cost every month.
@@TurreTuntematon if you don't have shade issues on your roof it may be a less expensive option to install a hybrid string inverter and add batteries later.
Enphase does offer great hardware, but it can get expensive if you need a lot of it.
output of 480 va, how you will you connect this with topcon panel
max power output is 480, there will be power clipping issues
there will be loss when micro inverters are used
Interesting to hear the the Enphase System Controller is coming to the UK. Any idea whether this can be used with a Enphase solar array and a non-enphase AC battery solution? Would be great to isolate from the grid during power outages and still be able to charge/use the battery and solar.
Hi, thanks for your comment. We are still awaiting the full UK spec. We'll get a full review on the channel as soon as it lands.
@@HeatableThat would be brilliant. Great channel, enjoying the content and one of the best explanations on the Enphase micro inverters and the importance of pairing to panel size I’ve seen 👏
@@OldCodeMonkey 👍
With Enphase you pay for quality and excellent customer support. Having 25 years of warranty and no high voltage cables on the roof just brings peace of mind 😊
I noticed that one post said IQ7 and IQ8 inverters cannot be mixed on the same system. Is that true? I have 20 405W panels that were installed in late 2020 with IQ7 inverters. I just added six 430W bifacial panels and the company doing the install said they were unable to use the IQ8M inverters, specified in the initial quote, and substituted the IQ7+ inverters. So, if I wanted to change out some of the older panels for the newer, higher producing panels would I need to change all of the inverters to the IQ8 model if I wanted to get maximum output? I live in Southern California.
I would not replace panels but just add extra panels instead. The panels last for a very long time.
intresting... What is the upgrade path for older M215's?
Those are so old that I would just go with new IQ8 when you decide it’s the right time for upgrade.
I like the thinking behind micro inverters and went on your website to arrange a quote, the company that rang me back couldn't supply them or even quote me for the REA panels 😢, are they a myth? 🤔
Hey, we have the rights to REA panels meaning no one else can install them in the UK. If you've contact any other company this would be why. If you'd like a quote for REA panels and micro inverters, head to the link in the description or speak to one of our team on 0330 113 1333.
Hi there, I'm very new to this and so still learning but I've just had a quote from you for 11 × 440W REA Power FUSION 2 paired with 11 × Enphase IQ8MC-72-M-INT · 325W. Why would you not pair these with the IQ8HC microinverters given what you advised in this video? Thanks in advance.
Hey Mike, there's a price difference between the IQ8MC, AC & HC. If you contact your Heatable design consultant, they'll be able to get you a no cost upgrade to the 440w panel with the integrated IQ8HC (there are around 200 left of the first 3000 we got).
@@Heatable I'm confused by this too - my system is due to be installed on Monday with 440 panels and IQ8MCs but it sounds like you're not recommending these and instead the HC's?
They've arrived and it's got the HC's integrated onto the panel 🙌
@@cckevm That's a superior pairing right there 👌
I have one IQ7+ that just failed at two years and six weeks after installation.
Looks like it’s going to be a nightmare to have it replaced within the warranty and I ‘ll have to pay a considerable sum.
Should have gone with a string inverter in my garage.
Hindsight; such a beautiful thing
You have warranty of 25 years so you would not have to pay anything. These fail very seldom and even then you know exactly which micro so you can swop that one out.
@@TurreTuntematon
Enphase forwarded contact details of installers in my area. Two of them responded initially and when I gave more details about the failed microinverter, both companies stopped responding to my emails.
Furthermore, Enphase emailed me the warranty terms which clearly covers ONLY the cost of the microinverter. Labor and equipment for roof access is NOT included.
Based on my personal experience, I can say with huge confidence that the Enphase 25 year warranty is totally USELESS.
@@serraios1989 So what company installed it as they are supposed to swop it out and Enphase will pay for that work as per their warranty? This is how it works globally. Sounds like you have dodgy installers. You can also swop it out yourself as swopping one micro is plug and play and not rocket science.
@@TurreTuntematon
The installers went bust.
I can easily remove the broken micro and install the new one, however to access the roof I need to hire a cherry picker that costs £800
Enphase the best they can do is refund me £120 which is the cost of the failed IQ7+, as it’s been discontinued. They will not even send to me an IQ7a which is still available, but costs £30 more.
@@serraios1989 Ok, that’s a pity and I understand. I would just get Enphase to reimburse you the IQ7 and then you buy yourself the IQ7A and replace it the next time your roof needs cleaning or something fixed anyways.
You can not mix iq7 and iq8 series micro inverters on the same envoy. So if you want to expand in the future, the iq7 series may be a dead end.
With the iq7 series the micro inverter can work without an envoy (nice for small cheap installs without monitoring cost). The iq8 series will not do that from what I have read.
A nice advantage of the iq8 series is that it has a buffer that will gather any sunlight in low light conditions without starting up the ac conversion side of the inverter. Once enough has been gathered, it will start up the inverter, convert the buffered energy to AC for home use and shut down again if there is still too little light. So it powers down the ac side and starts gathering energy again for the next burst. And that is on top of the extra efficiency of this series.
This may be worth it for typical UK weather conditions. On my NE roof in the Netherlands it works great and beats the SW roof with a string inverter on many cloudy days.
Hi, thanks for your comment. Some great info in there regarding the 8's.
Very good info! Thanks 😊
They don’t sell IQ7 any more so not really a choice anyway
There are still +'s and A's in the market but most now only stock the 8's
I would mix the different type of inverters based on which way the panels are facing.
Compared to The Netherlands the south of England gets more sun, thats something to keep in mind.
With a battery system these micro inverters are actually less efficient because the AC needs to be converted back to DC again for the battery
At the moment micro inverters only benefit is AC power and individual panel control, in my opinion not worth the cost yet, just invest in better panels and inverter
The inherent advantage of micros are low voltage installation on roof (fire risks) and panel level monitoring. Couple that with 25 years of warranty and fantastic customer support then it’s a good value proposition. But yes, you can get cheaper and less safe DC systems for sure.
@@TurreTuntematon The Warranty is a nice addition ...but at the end of the day is it such a great selling point? I mean these are really very reliable units and the *individual* cost is relatively small unlike a single String Inverter so what are you actually getting? a couple of hundred quid saving when one does fail in 1-25 years? how many have to fail before your actually bothered about that Warranty and if you did have multiple units die at the same time its almost certainly due to some external factor not covered by that warranty ..and is your installer even going to be in business (or Enphase for that matter ) in 25 years?
I don't discount its a nice offering but in the scheme of things its fairly inconsequential when picking which system is right for you...though to be very clear I do like their offerings generally.