Coming at this from a post-Three Jokers/Doomsday Clock world is so strange, hearing all of the ideas they throw around, and what did, and what didn't come to fruition with it. It's wild, and I kinda love going back to when Rebirth was fresh and new, and how exciting of a time it was as a reader!
There were ALOT of good titles back then. Superman fans were eating well back then. King’s run just started, but it wasn’t too bad for Batman. Rucka returned to writing WW. It was great…until Johns left
I love that it was the lack of wally that makes the dc universe a little darker. Reminds me of the cartoon that when lex killed wally the whole league turned into the justice lords and went all injustice on society.
June 2nd, 2016 - Ethan asks "what does it mean that there's three Jokers?" DC - You'll just have to wait to find out. It's coming! You'll be amazed at what we do! August 2019 - Everybody: "We don't care about the Three Jokers thing any more!" DC - But it's coming! You'll be amazed at what we do! You just have to wait!
21:31 With the way Sal frames Dr. Fate's revelation about Blue Beetle's scarab, I would love a DC/Marvel crossover with Dr. Strange and Dr. Fate where the duo just go around, explaining everything in their respective universes as MAGIC. Mutants? MAGIC. Daredevil's senses? MAGIC. Kryptonian powers? MAGIC THAT'S WEAK TO MAGIC.
This is a bit of a weird question, but I would love to see an episode where Ethan and Ben read a book that Sal has not read and have to explain it to him
Joel, I think i figured it all out.Think of it: the entity of the white lantern is hanging out on Earth when suddenly a giant blue space dong pops out of a tear in the sky. A voice cries out: "well I said I wanted to create life. I don't actually know how to do that though, so........ hows it going baby? You come here often? Can I buy you a drink?" The entity is bored of hanging out with her weird ex nekron, so she chats the voice up while chugging white Russians. Nine months after she wakes up on Mars with a note saying he had an early meeting, the DCU is born in the form of a bunch of crying blue babes on a little planet called Malthus. Being almost as apathetic as their pops, these children of a single mother decide to build a bunch of robots called manhunters, then later recruit a bunch of idiot humans to their private army. So when Korona was looking for the origin of the universe, he was actually looking for his dad. He became evil after seeing his folks bang for like a thousand years.
I think it's fitting that Dr. Manhattan made this gritty and dark DC universe as a reflection of what he experienced in his Watchmen universe... Just as Alan Moore initially started the dark and gritty deconstructed superhero myths that has changed the comic book industry...
I definitely think the "meta-text" here was that stories like Watchmen and TDKR changed the way DC made comics. It's what made them want to do more dark and gritty stories. I think Johns is saying that letting those past stories dictate what they did with the New 52 was a mistake. So in this story, the New 52 is just Dr. Manhattan messing with the universe because he's bored
The implication wasn't that Dr. Manhattan created the DCU but more so that he interfered when the reality was being remade during Flashpoint and he stole a decade from the DCU as well as all the hope, love, legacy, optimism and turned into this dark, cynical, edgy place without friendships, love, happy relationships, legacy and rich connective history with heart like there was. Also, Mr. Oz who shows up in the book is totally Adrian Veidt. So we won't get Rorscach or Comedian, who're dead because this is all post-Watchmen, but we'll certainly get to see Ozymandias and Doc for sure. This is all esp great because its a meta narrative about how the post-Watchmen influence of the industry has ruined comics with many creators taking the wrong message from it and being all "Dark=better!" and making stuff dark for no reason by using Watchmen, TDKR etc as an instruction manual. It's not a shot at Miller or Moore or guys like that or their work, but it's a critique aimed at all the creators who read watchmen and thought "This! This is how superhero comics are made! Dark and edgy!" and applied it to the genre at large. A good example being Zack Snyder and his DCEU. Johns' Rebirth is telling us how wrong that is and how that approach is bullshit that ruins a place like DCU and that...a world like that isn't DC, DC is optimism, DC is hope, DC is love, DC is legacy and without that positivity there, it's just no DC. (Again, the head of DC films wrote this at a time when a creator obsessed with TDKR and Watchmen is making DC movies that are being panned and are necessarily dark, edgy and cynical. Says a lot.) Rebirth is probably the most DC book they've put out in a looong time. I fucking love it. Johns' best work in a while.
King Faraday I love your interpretation but your making a lot of assumptions about guys you've never met before. For instance Zack Snyder said he loved watchmen but after he made the movie and got it out of his system, he realised how bleak and hopeless it ended and he did not like that. He said he saw the dceu as like a second chance for watchmen, he made things start out dark but it's going to end hopeful to prove that the world isn't hopeless and that no matter how bad things get there is always hope and redemption. he even said when he was a teenager that he only liked dark and edgy comics with murder in them but now he knows better, of course people took it out of context and started reporting thar Zack only likes edgy comics with murder and stuff. I'm just saying you're talking about this guys like you know them and have known them your whole life but you don't really know how they think so you can't really psychoanalyse them even interviews aren't reliable because people misquote, take words out of context and actively try to make them look a certain way.
"We know who the big bad is, and he's trying to fuck our universe!" "Don't you mean 'fuck up our universe'?" _"NO!"_ *points to sky at giant donger* "Mother of God!" *Dr. Manhattan:* "Her name was Inge Osterman, by the way." "God is real, and he's..." *Dr. Manhattan:* "American." *Alan Moore (looking up to the sky):* "...I came out of my cave for this?"
Sal, you were on FIRE this episode. Hysterical. Love where the narrative is headed with DC Rebirth, so I desperately hope they don't go crazy and drive it into the ground. Keep up the great work!
The New 52 (and the Injustice game) brought me back to comic books after over 10 years, but DC Rebirth truly invigorated my love to comic books. I don't care what anyone thinks, sure there are silly weird things happening, but its part of the fun of comics imo.
If they were bring Watchmen back just as a publicity stunt I would agree that that would be shitty. But the fact they are using Watchmen to make a statement about comics, as many consider Watchmen to be the cause of all the dark and gritty stuff we have been getting in comics for decades.
Maybe the plan is ultimately for DC's heroes to go to the Watchmen universe and save the Watchmen from their dark dystopic world. To save the Watchmen from themselves in a way. Would it be good? Maybe it would and maybe it wouldn't. But it would be the ultimate statement about comic books and DC's philosophy.
The second I saw this in my feed, I closed it, waited until I got to the nearest comic shop, bought it, read it, loved it, watched this, loved it even more. I was actually lucky enough to grab a variant cover. Another great episode ComicPOP! By the way, I went to the shop and apparently they decided to put their own price on it (10 Goddamn dollars for 1 issue). Good thing I went there on a super-sale day.
Sal enumerating the attributes of the new 52: dark and greedy and cool and...Has to be the best moment from back issues i have seen. Good job guys love the episodes
+ComicPoP I think you misinterpreted it. It was stated that just as reality (the Post-Crisis multiverse) was coming back together from Barry undoing the events of Flashpoint, they were attacked. So I think Dr. Manhattan prevented the Post-Crisis multiverse from returning by stealing a total of 10 years worth of history from them, causing reality to reshape itself into the bleak/hopeless New 52 multiverse. Other than that this was a great video.
I don't think we misrepresented it at all. I think it's worthy of discussion and interpretation, and just because ours doesn't fall in line with yours doesn't make it incorrect. Glad you liked the rest of it!
That's true. I'm just glad the real Wally West is back. Though I'm confused with what is going to happen to the other Kid Flash Bar Torr who came back from the future a while ago.
I'm still kind of confused, does this mean that the New 52 origins stories of the characters are still true or are just mental construct to fill in the missing years. Like, in the New 52 Dick Grayson was taken in and became Robin when he was 16. But is that still the case or was he taken in when he was much younger and it was just forgotten? Basically, is the missing 10 years pre or post-Flashpoint?
Caitlin Brewer After reading more stuff it seems like The New 52 was indeed supposed to be the Pre-Flashpoint multiverse coming back into existence after flashpoint. Exactly where and how those 10 years were stolen is beyond me. But they are (were) indeed the same multiverse.
As soon as I saw the color of the text boxes I started freaking out. Say what you will about Geoff Johns (*finger guns*), but he writes great Flash stories, and it was so cool to see him writing Wally again. Hopefully the rest of the event(?) gets pulled off with as much skill. And while I'm here: Hell Yes to Ryan Choi being alive again!
I went into the comic store earlier this year after not being there for many years and asked what should I read. The guy handed ,e this book (the hard cover deluxe version). I never considered my self a huge D.C. Fan even though I like batman a lot. After reading this my geeky mind exploded. This story, I thought was so amazing. The idea of this being that the D.C. Universe has never faced before comes in and plays with time is such a cool concept. I can wait until all is revealed at some point. D.C. Is knocking it out of the park in the comic store right now. Way better the. Marvel comics right now by far. DCEU < MCU D.C. Comics > Marvel Comics
I actually like the Dr. Manhattan twist because I love a good meta-narrative. If you read Jon as a symbol for what happened in the wake of Watchmen (how comics got dark and gritty for the next thirty years), that's almost like Dr. Manhattan (or Watchmen/TDKR/Longbow Hunters/etc.) stealing joy and love. It's a commentary about the industry and the way that "dark and gritty" and "bleak" tones sold, and how DC especially was guilty of putting stuff that was dark and gritty as a substitute for stuff that had a good, sensible story (cough Cry for Justice cough). I just hope this is a conflict that gets resolved by conversation, not by fisticuffs. I feel like it's something that NEEDS to be resolved through moral reasoning and reaching whatever of humanity is still in Jon. Anything else will be absurd and stupid.
Yea, thats a good point. There is irony in the fact that they attempt to reintroduce love and hope into their universe through clashing it with the (debatably) most gritty and bleak comic book ever written. I just hope they dont do something stupid like Superman actually landing a punch on Dr. Manhattan or Manhattan's powers not working on supes because of his "Super density" or something stupid like that. Best scenario is Manhattan leaves and the only thing gained is the five years he took. And perhaps him taking the 5 years for a good reason, i.e. to prepare the universe for something even more grand. All of this can be brilliant. But it will need the best writers in the industry and a good framework. If not this entire event will backfire BIG TIME.
There are three Jokers because there were "three timelines" First being the original, pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths The Second being post-Crisis on Infinite Earth/pre-Flashpoint And third would be post-Flashpoint/The New 52
In a way yes I am. The fact is there are 3 Jokers... But why three? Like they said in the video there's a multiverse there are many Jokers. So if you go and look in the issue when Batman is looking in the scene of the 3 Jokers, one is draw in the classic 40s style (the Original) the second is draw like in the Killing joke (the post-Crisis on Infinite Earths/pre-Flashpoint) and last is Scott Snyders Joker (The New 52).
Everyone keeps misunderstanding the 5 years thing from the first Justice League. Justice League #1 basically takes place five years before Batman #1 for example(that would be present day). When that arc ends, which I believe is issue 5(?) the Justice League then moves into the Present day(2011) so that's the first 5 years plus the 5 years of the New 52...so 10 years like Wally says. There is also time before that with Morrison's T-shirt Superman which takes place before Justice League #1 where he has the armor suit.
+ComicPOP I just read the Multiversity trade and I didn't understand it at all. I know you guys did a off-the-rack video for #1 but the entire series is confusing. You guys did a really good job explaining Final Crisis and I was wondering if you could do the same for Multiversity.
I honestly thought Sal was misremembering the end of Johns's Justice League with Metron and Owlman and went back and looked and was like "holy shit, yeah, Metron got vaporized too"
Sal, is it possible that by "10 missing years" they mean that the pre-flashpoint universe had superheroes in it for 15 years, and ten of those years were stolen, meaning the heroes where only around for 5. That's what I assumed.
Think of it: the entity of the white lantern is hanging out on Earth when suddenly a giant blue space dong pops out of a tear in the sky. A voice cries out: "well I said I wanted to create life. I don't actually know how to do that though, so........ hows it going baby? You come here often? Can I buy you a drink?" The entity is bored of hanging out with her weird ex nekron, so she chats the voice up while chugging white Russians. Nine months after she wakes up on Mars with a note saying he had an early meeting, the DCU is born in the form of a bunch of crying blue babes on a little planet called Malthus. Being almost as apathetic as their pops, these children of a single mother decide to build a bunch of robots called manhunters, then later recruit a bunch of idiot humans to their private army. So when Korona was looking for the origin of the universe, he was actually looking for his dad. He became evil after seeing his folks bang for like a thousand years.
Jeremiah Vink A simpler and non publicity stuntesque reason for the rebirth would be that the villains from zero hour are still around and evil parallax stole the time to try and save his coast city; or something to do with convergence and Deimos somehow gaining all that power from time travelers.
Watching this 4 years later really makes me sad about how good DC was during this time. My pull list was probably 17 DC titles deep around this time and so many of them felt like must reads. Doomsday Clock feels like a squandered opportunity.
Seems like whatever Dan Didio and Tom King were doing with Heroes in Crisis alongside Michael Bendis touching Superman, they completely murdered the momentum they had with DC Rebirth.
@@rayvenkman2087 I stopped reading Superman at the Action Comics 1000 annual. The Bendis one shot put me off him going into future books, because I did not like the Bendis flavour hint I got. It made me sad, because the previous run was so damned good, because I wanted to see Superman raise his son through the comics, which would have kept the Rebirth element continuing.
@@shauntempley9757 Letting Michael Bendis do Superman is one of the worst comic book decisions that was ever made and that includes prolonging the Spider-Man Clone Saga. All at the cost of losing two of the best Superman runs since the Geoff Johns run.
My mind is just firing on all cylinders with this Dr Manhattan bombshell, and I'm just going spastic. DC should just stop now before they have the opportunity to retcon the accidental genius of Rebirth
Interesting how Marvel and DC are taking different approaches to their marketing. DC charging $3 for Rebirth #1 and all their issues going forward and Marvel charging $6 for Civil War II #1 and $5 for all the issues thereafter. Although I don't read DC I'm hoping the market share evens out between the big two and Marvel will have to re-think their somewhat arrogant pricing, although let's be honest they'll probably be able to pull this off.
I like the way you done things, reading like a story to the others going in blind and heading their thoughts. Can't wait to see more content! subscribed!
I think that it's not Manhattan creating the DCU. Cause Wally talks like it's an invasion, and Watchmen mentions Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman as comics in Watchmen and inspiration to the minutemen of the forties. I think cause Watchmen came out the same year as Crisis. That Manhattan just found the DCU and basically been playing The Sims in it. He's been shaping it into his image. Things started to go really dark thou cause it's a Watchmen hero playing god. And "Mr. Oz"is Adrian who caused the New 52. By convincing Manhattan that to fix this the DCU needs to be "Saved" too. And to do that they stole 5 years together to make them weaker.
They think it's great because it alludes to the idea that part of the industry response to The Watchmen was to eventually ruin superhero comics. The Watchmen book by itself was fine, but for many in the industry it kicked off an age of cynicism that has ultimately brought us to the New 52 comics and the terrible Batman v. Superman film. OK, that's a vast oversimplification, but I think that kind of idea is what Rebirth #1 is getting at, and that makes it kinda brilliant. It's like, critics of New 52 sometimes said, "Well, you can ultimately blame The Watchmen for this!" And DC said, "Hey, that's a great story idea..."
I know the "favorite line" contest was a long time ago but "I would qualify that as a different type of magic" is my all time winner every time. A winner is Ethan
My theory on Dr Manhattan stealing the hope of the DC Universe is him experimenting, he is a scientist after all. An considering how apathetic he is to everything all these huge events that happen could be him introducing different elements to see how his project reacts. Everything stable? Introduces a crisis to mess with the status quo.
My theory is he takes away stuff that makes the universe objectively weaker. You know, attachement (in his eyes anyway) makes people weaker, more vulnerable and easier to stab in the back. He is, generaly, min/maxing the universe for peek efficiency in fighting brainiacs, darkseids and such. Also he wants to stay in the shadows and the only people he takes out are the ones that have found out about him. And with the speed force effectively rebelling against him by releasing Barry, he is a ever retreating figure bound to shadows and has to sacrifice more and more people in fear of what they will do to themselves if they find out the truth. In essence, he lies because he cares but doesnt care about the individuals (very much reminiscent of the ending of Watchmen).
I was under the impression no one from Watchman other than Dr. Manhattan was going to be in the DC Universe. I assumed that when he disappears at the end of Watchman he was traveling to the DCU. I think if only Dr. Manhattan is introduced it's an awesome idea. Watchman characters in the DCU doesn't make much sense, other than Manhattan and I trust DC understands that.
I didn't even think of the quarter to midnight thing being symbolic of 4 months. Since Rebirth started in May, 4 months later would be September. Every September for the last few years, that's when DC has had all their big annual events. So now I'm curious if Doc Manhattan will make his official appearance then.
While I completely agree with the Comedian and Rorschach remaining dead. I do love the idea of Ozymandias and Batman fighting each other: Ozymandias: "Fool, I already enacted my master plan 35 minutes ago!" Batman: "Fortunately my counter for it began 40 minutes ago, you've already lost Adrian!" Ozymandias: "You think I'd let my plan be stop by one wrench. There's a back up!" Batman: "Do you think I only had one way of stopping you Mister Veidt?" ad infinum
Buy DC Universe Rebirth right here: amzn.to/2FLeePW
Coming at this from a post-Three Jokers/Doomsday Clock world is so strange, hearing all of the ideas they throw around, and what did, and what didn't come to fruition with it. It's wild, and I kinda love going back to when Rebirth was fresh and new, and how exciting of a time it was as a reader!
Geoff Johns is a madlad
There were ALOT of good titles back then. Superman fans were eating well back then. King’s run just started, but it wasn’t too bad for Batman. Rucka returned to writing WW. It was great…until Johns left
Yeah it was a really nice era for a time
It's so depressing to think about how wasted all of this potential was.
I bought doomsday clock and don’t understand it. Do I need to read rebirth and the button?
I love that it was the lack of wally that makes the dc universe a little darker. Reminds me of the cartoon that when lex killed wally the whole league turned into the justice lords and went all injustice on society.
Yes I thought the same exact thing
That makes _waaaay_ too much sense...
So true about the lex luthor thing, based.
Four years later, even hearing about that scene with Barry and Wally still makes me tear up.
June 2nd, 2016 - Ethan asks "what does it mean that there's three Jokers?"
DC - You'll just have to wait to find out. It's coming! You'll be amazed at what we do!
August 2019 - Everybody: "We don't care about the Three Jokers thing any more!"
DC - But it's coming! You'll be amazed at what we do! You just have to wait!
April 12, 2022 - Everybody "Oh right, there was that story about three Jokers."
DC - "pft. Yeah."
21:31 With the way Sal frames Dr. Fate's revelation about Blue Beetle's scarab, I would love a DC/Marvel crossover with Dr. Strange and Dr. Fate where the duo just go around, explaining everything in their respective universes as MAGIC. Mutants? MAGIC. Daredevil's senses? MAGIC. Kryptonian powers? MAGIC THAT'S WEAK TO MAGIC.
So...basically, Geoff Johns is not rebooting DC...he's trying to restore it to it's former glory.
This is a bit of a weird question, but I would love to see an episode where Ethan and Ben read a book that Sal has not read and have to explain it to him
Sal's New 52 freak out from 2:12 till 3:00
I can watch that on loop for the rest of my life and keep laughing 😂😂😂😂😂😂
OOOOOH RAAAAAH WHOAAAH
Three Jokers
-Silver Age
-Golden Age
-Modern Age
oh shit you right damn ... thing dc rebirth is mind bending dude, its crazy good
Benjamin Hall, don't get my hopes up but I had too strong a feeling that 2 Harleys could explain something ! :P
More like Golden, Bronze, Modern
More like Silver, Modern, New 52
I think what Sal is saying based on the image is that the 3 Jokers are most likely gonna be from the Silver Age, Modern Age and New 52
Maybe in 2011 Alan Moore came out to the DC offices and stole time and love in the life of most of the writters
LOL
Kevin Bravo makes sense
Isn't this the plot of Doomsday clock?
so everything is DARK and GRITTY andYOUNG and COOL and HIP.
Great editing guys
I'm happy my saying Solar Superman has rubbed on Sal even thought they never once say Solar Superman in Super League lol :)
what's up Joel love the channel are you going to be doing a review of the new Flash comics and the rebirth flash issue 1?
jfhaze
probably at some point.
+Caped-Joel nice flash is my favorite hero the new batman seems like it could be really good too
Joel, I think i figured it all out.Think of it: the entity of the white lantern is hanging out on Earth when suddenly a giant blue space dong pops out of a tear in the sky. A
voice cries out: "well I said I wanted to create life. I don't actually
know how to do that though, so........ hows it going baby? You come here
often? Can I buy you a drink?" The entity is bored of hanging out with
her weird ex nekron, so she chats the voice up while chugging white
Russians. Nine months after she wakes up on Mars with a note saying he
had an early meeting, the DCU is born in the form of a bunch of crying
blue babes on a little planet called Malthus. Being almost as apathetic
as their pops, these children of a single mother decide to build a bunch
of robots called manhunters, then later recruit a bunch of idiot humans
to their private army. So when Korona was looking for the origin of the
universe, he was actually looking for his dad. He became evil after
seeing his folks bang for like a thousand years.
+Caped-Joel Yo Joel wasssup?
I think it's fitting that Dr. Manhattan made this gritty and dark DC universe as a reflection of what he experienced in his Watchmen universe...
Just as Alan Moore initially started the dark and gritty deconstructed superhero myths that has changed the comic book industry...
I definitely think the "meta-text" here was that stories like Watchmen and TDKR changed the way DC made comics. It's what made them want to do more dark and gritty stories. I think Johns is saying that letting those past stories dictate what they did with the New 52 was a mistake. So in this story, the New 52 is just Dr. Manhattan messing with the universe because he's bored
U called it mate!
Fucking Alan Moore at the end! hahaha! XD
I think you mean Salan Moore.
The implication wasn't that Dr. Manhattan created the DCU but more so that he interfered when the reality was being remade during Flashpoint and he stole a decade from the DCU as well as all the hope, love, legacy, optimism and turned into this dark, cynical, edgy place without friendships, love, happy relationships, legacy and rich connective history with heart like there was.
Also, Mr. Oz who shows up in the book is totally Adrian Veidt. So we won't get Rorscach or Comedian, who're dead because this is all post-Watchmen, but we'll certainly get to see Ozymandias and Doc for sure. This is all esp great because its a meta narrative about how the post-Watchmen influence of the industry has ruined comics with many creators taking the wrong message from it and being all "Dark=better!" and making stuff dark for no reason by using Watchmen, TDKR etc as an instruction manual. It's not a shot at Miller or Moore or guys like that or their work, but it's a critique aimed at all the creators who read watchmen and thought "This! This is how superhero comics are made! Dark and edgy!" and applied it to the genre at large. A good example being Zack Snyder and his DCEU. Johns' Rebirth is telling us how wrong that is and how that approach is bullshit that ruins a place like DCU and that...a world like that isn't DC, DC is optimism, DC is hope, DC is love, DC is legacy and without that positivity there, it's just no DC. (Again, the head of DC films wrote this at a time when a creator obsessed with TDKR and Watchmen is making DC movies that are being panned and are necessarily dark, edgy and cynical. Says a lot.)
Rebirth is probably the most DC book they've put out in a looong time. I fucking love it. Johns' best work in a while.
That's one interpretation, sure.
King Faraday I love your interpretation but your making a lot of assumptions about guys you've never met before. For instance Zack Snyder said he loved watchmen but after he made the movie and got it out of his system, he realised how bleak and hopeless it ended and he did not like that. He said he saw the dceu as like a second chance for watchmen, he made things start out dark but it's going to end hopeful to prove that the world isn't hopeless and that no matter how bad things get there is always hope and redemption. he even said when he was a teenager that he only liked dark and edgy comics with murder in them but now he knows better, of course people took it out of context and started reporting thar Zack only likes edgy comics with murder and stuff. I'm just saying you're talking about this guys like you know them and have known them your whole life but you don't really know how they think so you can't really psychoanalyse them even interviews aren't reliable because people misquote, take words out of context and actively try to make them look a certain way.
I can't believe I cried during Sal's explanation god damn it I'm so happy Wally's back
it's all good man
it's all food man
Alan Moore killed me at the end
"Bollocks."
Best ending of a back issues EVER. I am on the fucking floor
"We know who the big bad is, and he's trying to fuck our universe!"
"Don't you mean 'fuck up our universe'?"
_"NO!"_ *points to sky at giant donger*
"Mother of God!"
*Dr. Manhattan:* "Her name was Inge Osterman, by the way."
"God is real, and he's..."
*Dr. Manhattan:* "American."
*Alan Moore (looking up to the sky):* "...I came out of my cave for this?"
Sal, you were on FIRE this episode. Hysterical. Love where the narrative is headed with DC Rebirth, so I desperately hope they don't go crazy and drive it into the ground. Keep up the great work!
I really don't want Rorschach and Comedian to come in, but I would LOVE to see an ideological debate between Batman and Ozymandias.
That would be cool.
Well, owlman is dead so a narcistic nihilist spot is empty, a guess... :D
Man, DC Rebirth was such a great set-up for... nothing in particular, it turns out.
48:00 I really hope you guys totally just called everything DC's gonna do in the next year or two. That would be amazing.
The New 52 (and the Injustice game) brought me back to comic books after over 10 years, but DC Rebirth truly invigorated my love to comic books. I don't care what anyone thinks, sure there are silly weird things happening, but its part of the fun of comics imo.
ah back when we all thought they knew what they were doing... good times
Was going to do something else...then I saw this video come up.
Anyone else?
I love Sal's explanations of the New 52! XD
If they were bring Watchmen back just as a publicity stunt I would agree that that would be shitty. But the fact they are using Watchmen to make a statement about comics, as many consider Watchmen to be the cause of all the dark and gritty stuff we have been getting in comics for decades.
Maybe the plan is ultimately for DC's heroes to go to the Watchmen universe and save the Watchmen from their dark dystopic world. To save the Watchmen from themselves in a way. Would it be good? Maybe it would and maybe it wouldn't. But it would be the ultimate statement about comic books and DC's philosophy.
it would be so ironic if Grant Morrison wrote it lol.
Alan Moore is now swamp thing in justice league dark
Lmfao I fucking love that, 6 years later, Iris West actually IS a fucking Flash. Flash lore since Rebirth has just been nonstop insanity
That thumbnail was epic!!!
And we are almost 4 years later and they still have NOT FUCKING ANSWERED THE THREE FUCKING JOKERS!!!!
To look back at what could have been... HOW did it derail that much!!
Comic Pop is the best thing coming out of DC Rebirth
The second I saw this in my feed, I closed it, waited until I got to the nearest comic shop, bought it, read it, loved it, watched this, loved it even more. I was actually lucky enough to grab a variant cover. Another great episode ComicPOP! By the way, I went to the shop and apparently they decided to put their own price on it (10 Goddamn dollars for 1 issue). Good thing I went there on a super-sale day.
I like every goddamn idea Sal has here more than how it actually played out in the last five years.
Sal enumerating the attributes of the new 52: dark and greedy and cool and...Has to be the best moment from back issues i have seen. Good job guys love the episodes
I have had a few laughing fits watching comicpop but that ending blew them all out the water
+ComicPoP I think you misinterpreted it. It was stated that just as reality (the Post-Crisis multiverse) was coming back together from Barry undoing the events of Flashpoint, they were attacked. So I think Dr. Manhattan prevented the Post-Crisis multiverse from returning by stealing a total of 10 years worth of history from them, causing reality to reshape itself into the bleak/hopeless New 52 multiverse. Other than that this was a great video.
I don't think we misrepresented it at all. I think it's worthy of discussion and interpretation, and just because ours doesn't fall in line with yours doesn't make it incorrect. Glad you liked the rest of it!
That's true. I'm just glad the real Wally West is back. Though I'm confused with what is going to happen to the other Kid Flash Bar Torr who came back from the future a while ago.
I'm still kind of confused, does this mean that the New 52 origins stories of the characters are still true or are just mental construct to fill in the missing years. Like, in the New 52 Dick Grayson was taken in and became Robin when he was 16. But is that still the case or was he taken in when he was much younger and it was just forgotten? Basically, is the missing 10 years pre or post-Flashpoint?
Caitlin Brewer After reading more stuff it seems like The New 52 was indeed supposed to be the Pre-Flashpoint multiverse coming back into existence after flashpoint. Exactly where and how those 10 years were stolen is beyond me. But they are (were) indeed the same multiverse.
Ok thanks, I guess that is one of many questions they will have to be answered.
As soon as I saw the color of the text boxes I started freaking out. Say what you will about Geoff Johns (*finger guns*), but he writes great Flash stories, and it was so cool to see him writing Wally again. Hopefully the rest of the event(?) gets pulled off with as much skill. And while I'm here: Hell Yes to Ryan Choi being alive again!
The convergence tie-in for the Atom gave a pretty cathartic reintroduction to Ryan, Rebirth integrated him in properly.
Ben and Ethan totally called the premise of Justice League Dark with Wonder Woman.
I went into the comic store earlier this year after not being there for many years and asked what should I read. The guy handed ,e this book (the hard cover deluxe version). I never considered my self a huge D.C. Fan even though I like batman a lot. After reading this my geeky mind exploded. This story, I thought was so amazing. The idea of this being that the D.C. Universe has never faced before comes in and plays with time is such a cool concept. I can wait until all is revealed at some point. D.C. Is knocking it out of the park in the comic store right now. Way better the. Marvel comics right now by far.
DCEU < MCU
D.C. Comics > Marvel Comics
I actually like the Dr. Manhattan twist because I love a good meta-narrative.
If you read Jon as a symbol for what happened in the wake of Watchmen (how comics got dark and gritty for the next thirty years), that's almost like Dr. Manhattan (or Watchmen/TDKR/Longbow Hunters/etc.) stealing joy and love.
It's a commentary about the industry and the way that "dark and gritty" and "bleak" tones sold, and how DC especially was guilty of putting stuff that was dark and gritty as a substitute for stuff that had a good, sensible story (cough Cry for Justice cough).
I just hope this is a conflict that gets resolved by conversation, not by fisticuffs. I feel like it's something that NEEDS to be resolved through moral reasoning and reaching whatever of humanity is still in Jon. Anything else will be absurd and stupid.
Yea, thats a good point. There is irony in the fact that they attempt to reintroduce love and hope into their universe through clashing it with the (debatably) most gritty and bleak comic book ever written.
I just hope they dont do something stupid like Superman actually landing a punch on Dr. Manhattan or Manhattan's powers not working on supes because of his "Super density" or something stupid like that.
Best scenario is Manhattan leaves and the only thing gained is the five years he took. And perhaps him taking the 5 years for a good reason, i.e. to prepare the universe for something even more grand.
All of this can be brilliant. But it will need the best writers in the industry and a good framework. If not this entire event will backfire BIG TIME.
Doomsday Clock has entered the chat
@@Favar1
You were sorta right.
This is now one of my top 5 favorite back issues! Great job guys! Love your channel.
"New 52 FUCK YOU!!" Sal understands me.
He understands us all
There are three Jokers because there were "three timelines"
First being the original, pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths
The Second being post-Crisis on Infinite Earth/pre-Flashpoint
And third would be post-Flashpoint/The New 52
Are you implying that, through every major multiversal reshape/reboot, the Joker has always been a remnant left on the Earth after they happened?
In a way yes I am. The fact is there are 3 Jokers... But why three? Like they said in the video there's a multiverse there are many Jokers. So if you go and look in the issue when Batman is looking in the scene of the 3 Jokers, one is draw in the classic 40s style (the Original) the second is draw like in the Killing joke (the post-Crisis on Infinite Earths/pre-Flashpoint) and last is Scott Snyders Joker (The New 52).
The way Sal explained the New 52 was the most amazing synopsis ever.
Oh my god that thumbnail is amazing😂 Awesome episode as usual, keep it up guys!
it's my favorite one so far!
+Ben Baragona I think The Long Halloween episodes' thumbnail can go up against this one even though they're both great xD
It's a contender but one more day has the best thumbnail
@@mobsta163 I'm partial to Phoenix
Everyone keeps misunderstanding the 5 years thing from the first Justice League. Justice League #1 basically takes place five years before Batman #1 for example(that would be present day). When that arc ends, which I believe is issue 5(?) the Justice League then moves into the Present day(2011) so that's the first 5 years plus the 5 years of the New 52...so 10 years like Wally says.
There is also time before that with Morrison's T-shirt Superman which takes place before Justice League #1 where he has the armor suit.
49:08 damn I hate how this kinda became real
that was the best possible ending to an amazing episode. this episode enhanced my liking of DC rebirth and i cannot wait to see how it ends.
Dc really did trip and fall right before the finish line. I forgotten how magical Rebirth felt at the time.
+ComicPOP I just read the Multiversity trade and I didn't understand it at all. I know you guys did a off-the-rack video for #1 but the entire series is confusing. You guys did a really good job explaining Final Crisis and I was wondering if you could do the same for Multiversity.
I feel like Geoff Johns did as well with his DC/Watchmen fanfic as anyone could have.
Oh my god, I've rewatched this a buncha times already and its my first time seeing the Salan Moore at the end lol
I honestly thought Sal was misremembering the end of Johns's Justice League with Metron and Owlman and went back and looked and was like "holy shit, yeah, Metron got vaporized too"
I am so happy my favorite flash aka Wally west is back alive and kicking
Batman looks up to the sky " MANHATTAN! BRING MY PARENTS BACK! “
you guys should have a shirt that says "then he ran faster then he ever ran before" with an angry ben face
OMG, it just occurred to me that this gives Grant Morrison a chance to get his hands on Watchmen characters. God (or Dr Manhattan?) help us.
+Ethan Marsh lol
He already did (kinda) in Multiversity.
The Pax Americana stuff was genuinely great. Loved the Captain Atom story.
Sal, is it possible that by "10 missing years" they mean that the pre-flashpoint universe had superheroes in it for 15 years, and ten of those years were stolen, meaning the heroes where only around for 5. That's what I assumed.
That's what I hope they mean.
Think of it: the entity of the white lantern is hanging out on Earth when suddenly a giant blue space dong pops out of a tear in the sky. A voice cries out: "well I said I wanted to create life. I don't actually know how to do that though, so........ hows it going baby? You come here often? Can I buy you a drink?" The entity is bored of hanging out with her weird ex nekron, so she chats the voice up while chugging white Russians. Nine months after she wakes up on Mars with a note saying he had an early meeting, the DCU is born in the form of a bunch of crying blue babes on a little planet called Malthus. Being almost as apathetic as their pops, these children of a single mother decide to build a bunch of robots called manhunters, then later recruit a bunch of idiot humans to their private army. So when Korona was looking for the origin of the universe, he was actually looking for his dad. He became evil after seeing his folks bang for like a thousand years.
LOL oscar worthy my friend
Jeremiah Vink
A simpler and non publicity stuntesque reason for the rebirth would be that the villains from zero hour are still around and evil parallax stole the time to try and save his coast city; or something to do with convergence and Deimos somehow gaining all that power from time travelers.
Watching this 4 years later really makes me sad about how good DC was during this time. My pull list was probably 17 DC titles deep around this time and so many of them felt like must reads. Doomsday Clock feels like a squandered opportunity.
Seems like whatever Dan Didio and Tom King were doing with Heroes in Crisis alongside Michael Bendis touching Superman, they completely murdered the momentum they had with DC Rebirth.
@@rayvenkman2087 I stopped reading Superman at the Action Comics 1000 annual. The Bendis one shot put me off him going into future books, because I did not like the Bendis flavour hint I got.
It made me sad, because the previous run was so damned good, because I wanted to see Superman raise his son through the comics, which would have kept the Rebirth element continuing.
@@shauntempley9757 Letting Michael Bendis do Superman is one of the worst comic book decisions that was ever made and that includes prolonging the Spider-Man Clone Saga. All at the cost of losing two of the best Superman runs since the Geoff Johns run.
It's 2021, and these 3 still brings a smile to face. We're basically buddies now😅
This is the best DC rebirth discussion I've ever seen
In DC's next event: Dr. Manhattan's MIDLIFE-CRISIS!
Alan Moore is somehow rolling in his grave despite being alive.
He does sleep in a coffin
My mind is just firing on all cylinders with this Dr Manhattan bombshell, and I'm just going spastic. DC should just stop now before they have the opportunity to retcon the accidental genius of Rebirth
I love how back issues is now talking about new things as well as old ones.
Interesting how Marvel and DC are taking different approaches to their marketing. DC charging $3 for Rebirth #1 and all their issues going forward and Marvel charging $6 for Civil War II #1 and $5 for all the issues thereafter. Although I don't read DC I'm hoping the market share evens out between the big two and Marvel will have to re-think their somewhat arrogant pricing, although let's be honest they'll probably be able to pull this off.
Why am I just now learning there's a Sallan Moore appearance at the end of this?
Holy shit
"Is that Robin?" "Yeah."
"Yaaaaay!"
"Wait, witch Robin?" "Damion Wane."
"Ohhhh..."
lolol Damion's my favorite Robin ._."
*DamiAn wayne
crazy this was so long ago
I like the way you done things, reading like a story to the others going in blind and heading their thoughts. Can't wait to see more content! subscribed!
+SHONENJUMPBOY Thank you!
Omg I love how excited you guys were for this story. Too bad Sal was right the story potential thing.
I think that it's not Manhattan creating the DCU. Cause Wally talks like it's an invasion, and Watchmen mentions Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman as comics in Watchmen and inspiration to the minutemen of the forties. I think cause Watchmen came out the same year as Crisis. That Manhattan just found the DCU and basically been playing The Sims in it. He's been shaping it into his image. Things started to go really dark thou cause it's a Watchmen hero playing god. And "Mr. Oz"is Adrian who caused the New 52. By convincing Manhattan that to fix this the DCU needs to be "Saved" too. And to do that they stole 5 years together to make them weaker.
So it's not so much he's playing the Sims, but more like he hacked another person's account?
After a week of a lot of Back Issues episodes... SUBSCRIBED! I really love your videos!
+Matias Carvalho Thanks man!
Should have saved this for two weeks, so you could have done the 120th Rebirth: Crisis!
They think it's great because it alludes to the idea that part of the industry response to The Watchmen was to eventually ruin superhero comics. The Watchmen book by itself was fine, but for many in the industry it kicked off an age of cynicism that has ultimately brought us to the New 52 comics and the terrible Batman v. Superman film. OK, that's a vast oversimplification, but I think that kind of idea is what Rebirth #1 is getting at, and that makes it kinda brilliant. It's like, critics of New 52 sometimes said, "Well, you can ultimately blame The Watchmen for this!" And DC said, "Hey, that's a great story idea..."
Its a 30 year long metanarrative that actually has a good moral. Never seen anything like this before.
I know the "favorite line" contest was a long time ago but "I would qualify that as a different type of magic" is my all time winner every time. A winner is Ethan
Getting metaphysical with Ethan at 22:15
My theory on Dr Manhattan stealing the hope of the DC Universe is him experimenting, he is a scientist after all. An considering how apathetic he is to everything all these huge events that happen could be him introducing different elements to see how his project reacts. Everything stable? Introduces a crisis to mess with the status quo.
My theory is he takes away stuff that makes the universe objectively weaker. You know, attachement (in his eyes anyway) makes people weaker, more vulnerable and easier to stab in the back. He is, generaly, min/maxing the universe for peek efficiency in fighting brainiacs, darkseids and such.
Also he wants to stay in the shadows and the only people he takes out are the ones that have found out about him. And with the speed force effectively rebelling against him by releasing Barry, he is a ever retreating figure bound to shadows and has to sacrifice more and more people in fear of what they will do to themselves if they find out the truth. In essence, he lies because he cares but doesnt care about the individuals (very much reminiscent of the ending of Watchmen).
awesome episode keep doing the tiny bit with moore at the end hahaha
Lil' Allie Moore!
That ending was amazing
I was under the impression no one from Watchman other than Dr. Manhattan was going to be in the DC Universe. I assumed that when he disappears at the end of Watchman he was traveling to the DCU. I think if only Dr. Manhattan is introduced it's an awesome idea.
Watchman characters in the DCU doesn't make much sense, other than Manhattan and I trust DC understands that.
There might have been a few references to Ozymandias in the Superman books.
when it faded to black and the started to play, i literally got chills
I wish DC just went and ran with "Old Superman in a new Universe" because now he has a convoluted as fuck back story.
Really the only reason I like the reyes blue Beatle because of the young justice from back in the day
Casual prediction of three jokers
I feel the guys ideas here is better then actual doomsday clock
Haven't even watched the episode yet, but that thumbnail is on point! Great work!
Man, I remember being hyped after this. Now I feel only disappointment.
I didn't even think of the quarter to midnight thing being symbolic of 4 months. Since Rebirth started in May, 4 months later would be September. Every September for the last few years, that's when DC has had all their big annual events. So now I'm curious if Doc Manhattan will make his official appearance then.
Also showed a blue hand in a episode of Justice league unlimited when Batman had to stop Chronos from getting to the beginning of time
Really???!
El Maguey Studios Dr.manhatten IS dc multiverse good since the early 2000s confirmed
Great episode having Alan Moore read rebirth and saying bollocks at the end was Comic Gold.lol
While I completely agree with the Comedian and Rorschach remaining dead. I do love the idea of Ozymandias and Batman fighting each other:
Ozymandias: "Fool, I already enacted my master plan 35 minutes ago!"
Batman: "Fortunately my counter for it began 40 minutes ago, you've already lost Adrian!"
Ozymandias: "You think I'd let my plan be stop by one wrench. There's a back up!"
Batman: "Do you think I only had one way of stopping you Mister Veidt?"
ad infinum
Great episode! Your line at the end that they wont tap into 10% was hilarious!
I like how they fixed pretty much the entire flash problem they were talking about in the rebirth flash series
watching this and knowing what has happened 3 years later.... oui god dammit DC.
Me Too!