Is There A Timeline in DC?! New 52, Rebirth, DC Universe! - Comics Experiment | Comicstorian
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Barry messed up the timeline so bad it takes a college degree to explain it.
TO THE TOP WITH THIS COMMENT!
Barry did not doc manhattan did
*Doctor Manhatten
@@clarkkentwithglasses4759 No, Barry still did, Nd its what prompted manhattan to experiment with it
prindy 14- It’s been said that Dr. Manhattan is the one that “pushed” Barry to “make” Flashpoint I agree with that because there is no real way he could have done it which in turn creates The New 52.
I'm sure I'm single in every timeline.
Agnel me too bro
me three
Wierd flex but ok
Zaim Hilmi that meme has to die soon 😑
Agnel i think theres at least one timeline where im with my ex without all the crazy mental disorder stuff
This is why Crisis of Infinite Earths happened. The multiverse confuses everything and nobody (not the readers, writers or executives) knows where everything fits in. As I read a new comic, my thoughts always go towards “which universe does this fit in?” Yeah, sure, there are 52 universes in this new multiverse and they’ve touched on many of them, but not all of them. They shouldn’t have capped them at 52. That way they could put stories together that go together, instead of leaving things the mess that they are.
I think it would be cool to see a single series or even novel from an outside perspective of one character who has been through it all just filling in the missing pieces and giving a clear definitive perspective on everything that has happened
I remember what a nightmare it was to get into comics via Batman a few years ago. The recommendations I got were so contradictory that I just winded up buying three collections from different time frames: Year One, Hush and The Return of Bruce Wayne. After that, I got wise and just bought New52. Now, I just recommend recent series that I know my friends will like the atmosphere of.
Honestly the way everything turned out in rebirth and everything after dark knights metal and no justice, the timeline isn't needed. Just knowing that everything after those 2 events is the direction of all the comics.
At 48 seconds I dipped cause rob was gone
DC Comics: Space is warped and Time is bendable.
Yep. I got into DC with the New 52. I loved it, but I went back to reading the old stuff and realized just how crazy and unprepared the whole thing really was. I love DC, but they really put themselves in a corner and just go into a panic for things they can easily fix.
My guess is that Rebirth, because of the whole "time was stolen" thing, caused some really wierd, Doctor Who style, timey-wimey... thing. All parts of time happened, but some parts were never experienced. Despite that, some people remember the things they never experienced because it still happened. Kinda like Deja-Vu. You remember something having happened, even if it hasn't yet.
Yeah, like the old school Teen Titans happened. Wally I West was the Barry's first sidekick. But Iris' visions about her wedding with Barry and her children didn't happened, are just Flashpoint's remnants
Rebirth kicked things off as a prologue. I'm guessing that when the Doomsday Clock run is over, we'll get some sort of new understanding / change in the DCU. This would be the time to fix things.
@@tomleonard830 it won't make things better, it makes even worse because you have two wally west on one earth, i'm pretty sure the specter should have come by right now
@@maymay5600 Heroes in Crisis took care of the two Wally Wests problem.
@@tomleonard830 HE'LL COME BACK I KNOW HE WILL (don't let the tears get to you DON'T LET THEM)
Every time I try to watch an explanation of one of the comics, and they bring up rebirth, and reboots and stuff, I always get lost.
Bascially its the New52/rebirth timeline. They just adding things they need from the pre52 timeline and say it happened here also. There alot of hints to this and it makes the most sense. This is how i see it and everything that comes now makes perfect sense to me
I like all your videos in general. But this one is so thought provoking, with great back & forth w/o stepping over, this is easily 1 of my faves. Thanks!!
i think dc struck gold with rebirth and metal. it really gives them a chance to choose what they want to keep in continuity and also make new stories like sideways and silencer. its really remarkable. now i can't wait for the new young justice comics.
the new green lantern run is awesome too
This is was an amazing conversation and discussion about comics and the comic book industry 👏 👏 👏
You guys do a really good job bouncing ideas off off each other. Another great episode.
The glow about Benny is definitely the pregnancy.
Ballz Diggity 🧐HMMMMMMMM
I think that when they do another reboot, they should only have one title per character, and then when the Justice League is formed, all of the titles for those characters are either cancelled, or they have a different protagonist
Lol yea it's weird, I'm a big Starfire fan and I actually liked new 52 Starfire. Very sexy yes, but actually a complex character with a good healthy relationship with arsenal. But in the Starfire solo series she acts completely different and doesn't seem to have the 52, history. Even blackfire seems different. In rebirth she seems more similar to new 52 version. So yeah feels like they pick and choose which history happened depending on how much it was liked. And since ppl seem to think new 52 Starfire was a hollow character so that history with the Outlaws doesn't exist
Starfire's history with the Outlaws still exist from New52. This was confirmed in Red Hood and the Outlaws Annual #2
I thought about this about 8 months ago catching up on some Batman comics. I like to think fans can pick and choose some of the events that happened. You can choose your own events depending on what story you are reading. Obviously some of the events are more concrete points in the universe.
I was born in '71. I'm a second generation comic book reader, both my parents did read comics (both Marvel and DC); but that's not a guarantee to be a reader too. What hooked me into comics wasn't "fresh starts" or "understanding everything that was happening", just the opposite. I met, face to face, with a world that extended wide in time and space, connected... stories inside a History. Independent stories can be great, like in Elseworlds and similar stuff, but I can't live reading just that. But if you did read and really enjoy Robinson's Starman as I did, you understand me.
I loved the way batman talked about his belief and thoughts on God.
@@Charziken909 it's in the batman playlist it was just uploaded about a week ago.
What story was that?
@@aidanlavin8211 Batman cold days.
@@shaquilleexavier2613 he is kinda narcissistic now tho.
@Bill The Bull Gates that's exactly what a TROLL would say.
Dat ad transition tho in the middle 😆
I miss the Else Worlds Era, Superman being raised like Tarzan, Gotham By Gaslight, those are the ones that stuck in my mind, but I would love more of those stories.
On another note, what about Joker as an Ultraviolet Lantern..... scary.
Red Son
Vampire batman
Marvel: let's make our time travel make sense
DC: flash point paradox
I think time travel "rules" in Flashpoint makes more sense than the ones in Endgame(if that's what you're talking about)
I like your idea on an "The End" where they could end the pre-52 storylines. I always thought that DC and Marvel should reboot like every 10 -15 years where the heroes age along with the sidekicks. Spiderman gets married and have kid and the issue of being Spiderman and being Father. Superman age a little and Connor Kent slowly taking the mantle where there are 2 Superman. Bruce aging and has to choose his predecessor. People die where others keep living. I would love to see Marvel and DC do this then they keep have a huge universe problem where things have to get rebooted.
Congrats on 2 Million!
I really like New 52 a lot. I liked the new take on Superman and Wonder Woman and I liked Superman's costume. I just missed Connor Kent in the new 52. Although Rebirth is good.
Congrats on 2 million!!
Comicstorian AND ComicPop together! Be still my heart!
Having sal here just makes the video that much better
The lack of continuity is largely what has kept me from reading DC. I really enjoyed Sinestro Corps War/War of Light/Darkest Night/Brightest Day, but everything else has been really confusing to me. Like where in the timeline does Dark Nights Metal take place, especially in regards to Doomsday Clock.
Benny I just want to thank you for this channel you have made comics more popular. Hope become as big as pewdiepie
This conversation about continuity just took like an hour... my point... the real problem with comics and why it’s so hard to get people into comics IS continuity. Continuity is the Achilles Heal of the American comic book
Wrong! Imo the Achilies Heel is cause now their FREE & there's To MANY, Like 8 Bat titles, to many Avngrs titles & also Its People getting their comics FOR FREE! Right Here & elsewhere Online. All of which devalues comics in general.
5 Fold Understanding, I don’t know if I would agree with there being too many because that’s kinda redundant to point out and I feel like that aspect could be better explained by the massive continuity, but I definitely won’t argue with you on your second point. However social media is kinda the Achilles Heal for everything. Plus there are still reasons to go buy hard copies, a lot of people are just into the novelty of having the paper backs, single issues, graphic novels, etc. But your point still stands, and that’s why I think now you’re seeing both DC and Marvel move to there own digital media services. If comic books are going to stay alive then they are going to need to get easier for average people to get into. The two ways you do that... start making stories that can gain critical acclaim on their own merit, that don’t rely on other stories to make sense (fixing your continuity problem)...(DC BLACK LABEL 🧐) and move to digital media so that people can get their comics instantly just like all their other books, and shows. It is truly the digital age everything and everyone that doesn’t want to get left behind needs to hop on the wagon and quick.
I think the biggest problem is that the publishers themselves don't give us any official timelines.
Commander Spyder nah I doubt that would help.
Its cool if you know it all though. Having the longest real world time connected universe every written in Fictional history is a pretty cool achievement.
Killing joke may have happened but on the day it stops being included in the timeline... it’s an elseworld where bats kills the joker.
If you guys do a video about the best Stan lee comics that'd be so freaking amazing or even a small blurb in one of your podcasts lol
Just imagine: Superboy prime comes back from the source wall to fight Dr. Manhattan. 😃😃 Do it DC.
@lordgameminator Superboy Prime is going to be in Dark Knights Death Metal comic. F**K YES.
@@chilliciouspatrioticmeatlover DC rebirth sucks because it ruined Watchmen
@lordgameminator Creators deserve rights
@lordgameminator Alan moore needs his characters back
@lordgameminatorDC needs to stop messing with Frank Miller's Batman stories
That beat drop Benny, perfect start lol
2M strong!!! Congrats Benson
Batman doesn't kill,
Villains just
accidentally jump into deadly batarangs
Such a dramatic entrance for Sal! Lol!
Because they have no.1 every 6 months ..lul i cried so badly on that !!Nice vid!!
Yay I loved this episode it was tons of fun
Thats coll
+Comicstorian here's an insane out of my ass theory:
- Darkseid's motherbox is given the ability of time travel.
- Travels to Earth and takes Vandal Savage's immortality.
- Further back in time and tricks the Guardians of the Universe and absorbs the power battery.
- Possesses all the new Forces, no strain due to immortality.
- Travels to his own past and fights alongside himself.
- Due to multiple aberrations, Rebirth, New 52, & old continuity combine. Rebirth is able to bring in old continuity.
As a kid I wasn’t really allowed to just sit and watch tv and I wasn’t into comics cause I thought it was all anime type dbz and I’m not a fan of that stuff but it wasn’t until I was about 18-19 I’m 24 now that I got into that stuff so here I am now really getting into comics and hero’s and I just really want to say thank you to Comicstorian Comicsexplained I know I’m years late but this has been the best like 6mo catching up on literally everything I couldn’t be more happy honestly thank you guy so much man 🤝🏾🤝🏾
This is some really high production value for a TH-cam podcast. Most of them are just people looking at their cellphone cameras.
I'd be interested in seeing DC do an Ultimates style run. An alternate/parallel universe/timeline and just completely reinvent everything. Just jump right into it each character with Parallel [Character Name] #1 and then every so often do #-1 and #-2 etcetera and through the character's history backwards.
*BECAUSE A PORTAL HAS OPENED!*
Dammit Benny lol
They can still do Dc the end series. But it would have to be after Dr. Manhattan restores their memories. And then we get to see them remember what happened just before Manhattan wiped their minds.
PHONEIX would be a real shame if one of them was just sitting on the toilet when that happened xD
That would be hilarious
I don't mind an idea of no timeline, except that DC continues to have huge events in which the whole universe is involved somehow. If there is no timeline, then each book should just have its own timeline and events should happen in isolation. If tie-ins need to happen, make them special issues like annuals are special issues.
I don't think it is fair to readers to have a timeline and not have a timeline at the same time, especially if they are readers who like following characters in different books, like reading JL and JLD because Wonder Woman is in it. If those books were stated to be isolated, then we could choose to fit them into the timeline as we wished.
I personally think that the best stories for DC are those that don't have to fit in continuity: Superman Red Son, Injustice, the Dark Night Returns,...
I think there HAS to be a definitive timeline (maybe not hard-line, but there's always our own headcanons lol) in DCs' main universe, because of several reasons:
- The constant crises and retcon would be completely rendered obselete. After all, Rebirth fixed a lot of the issues with the New 52, so if there's no timeline, why bother?
- Eaglemoss are currently publishing a "Legends of Batman" graphic novel series, which is collecting a ton of well-known and obscure stories into a chronological order, both stories are Pre-Final Crisis and New 52 (not sure if they'll do the same with Rebirth).
These two reasons pretty much make me refuse the idea of a lack of a timeline. Also, Marvel needs their own Rebirth, BADLY lol
Also the new bendis line is called wonder comics which has Young justice featuring Tim drake robin Bart Allen Impulse and finally the return of Conner Kent superboy and Cassie sandsmark wonder girl also we are getting the return of the wonder twins within this new wonder comics line
I think DC rebirth doesn't seem to have a timeline at least not yet anyways but I think DC is using a lot of Hypertime which Hypertime is like the DC multiverse except its where EVERY story ever made in DC's history exists and they can pull from it because I believe in rebirth like in dark knights metal they referenced hyoertime....idk I could be wrong.
Howdy
I actually got into comics because my local library had some new 52 floppies for green lantern, green arrow, and batman. Then my first event was the throne of atlantis.
Since you guys are the so called experts on comic books from this discussion it seems there isn’t one and they are just throwing ideas at a wall. I agree with Sal I LOVE continuity.
Is that the legend Sal Crivelli in the cut? Automatic like 👍
How I wished rob would have been there. It would have been awesome these three explaining the DC timeline
I would love a video about dc and marvel comics that aren't in continuity but are still a good read. Like kevin smiths batman run or any xmen run.
Benny, did you do a video on the Green Arrow story arc "Quiver"? If not could you or would you do one? It was a great story and involved many of DC's best.
And I do get that it comes down to profit margin and popularity or continuity. Keep up the good work.
Yey for 2M!!
“No mans land”, one of my favorite comic arcs when I first really started getting into comics.
Dc editorial: (shrug)
I liked the New 52 for the most part.
Captain Atom was supposed to be Monarch, and it leaked out, so they made Hawk Monarch(In Armageddon) fans got upset because Wave Rider had already visited Hawk and Dove both, and said in all possible futures they had fought Monarch.
honestly the only DCYOU book i liked was superman lois and clark series which gave us Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy who is so awesome and adorable and that was about it, all of the other DCYOU books were so boring and useless in my opinion that i was so happy with DC rebirth gave us back the real wally west flash which made me so happy and now that he's gone i am worried for the future of DC rebirth.
Armageddon was my first big DC crossover too. 😂
I'd love a definitive clean continuity but for the most part I take each story I'm reading and take whatever continuity it's telling me exists as what I need to know to understand and get or enjoy that story. For the most part I have my own head canon for continuity because it's just as legitimate as what Marvel and DC have established by not having something coherent and clean. I absolutely love Cosmic Ghost Rider and I don't like Fank Castle or Ghost Rider in general. I don't care how or where or why or when anything that happens in that book or in the previous Thanos run interacts or means for the rest of the universe and characters referenced in it. If another book came out next week that dealt with the same point in time as that book takes place and in the same universe and it contradicts everything about it that wouldn't be how I decide if I like that story. I think we all need to realize that as much as we like this stuff for creative reasons at the end of the day it's a business that needs to sell and make money and they have to take care of that as priority #1 and everything else comes second.
Shut up
Is that the mystery box on the coffee table
Also i meant to add this is one of the best conversations about comics in a while. Not a dig at anything or anyone, just showd how much i liked this one.
Wavrider looks like a mix of Booster Gold and Silver Surfer
Snyder's Swamp Thing was awesome. Accidentally bought the first one in a batch of Cable comics. My only exposure to Swamp Thing before this was a bad movie I saw as a kid. Thankful that I decided to read it.
28: 37 it was captain atom, the hawk to be monarch. But later in 52, captain atom later became monarch, so it came full circle
Ivan Reis is currently working with Bendis on his Superman run.
The only that confuses me right now is the Two-Face in Deathstroke and the Two-Face in Detective Comics
I’m not gonna lie, I got into reading weekly essentially because of new 52. About 7 years later I’m still reading weekly 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
Omg yea please make more videos like exactly this im big dc fan but I HAVE NO IDEA WHATS CANON or what actually happend ?!?!?!?
A Sense of Pride and Accomplishment! IKR
Lol the way I see it for DC Canon is
Pre crisis, post crisis all to Flashpoint, new 52 then rebirth.
It simplifies the timeliness for me lol
The ultimate tag-line for Marvel. "Spider-man: Clone Saga...it'll drive your comic geek/nerd to sports".
I like the idea of a "THE END" event where everything gets hard reset, but knowing DC like I do, there will be some continuity leakage neccesitating another reboot in 5-10 years. I would rather they do a time jump like with 52, except longer so that we are now dealing with the next generation of heroes, but not so far that the existing heroes are not still out there in semi-retirement.
For me the big problem is that allow some characters to age and evolve while keeping Superman, Batman and a few others perpetually around the same age (35-ish) And because they are not allowed to age, we are stuck with all the in-continuity events being squished into a 5-10 year time line.
I want to see Dick become Batman. I want to see Jonathan become Superman. I want to see Donna / Cassie become Wonder Woman. And I want this to stick for more than a storyline or two. And this requires that we allow the timeline to progress - if Bruce has only been batman for 10-15 years perpetually, of course he'll never permenantly retire. But if time actually progresses and he's been Batman for 30 years, then we get to see that happen.
I'm prettty sure they were gonna make Rip Hunter turn into waverider in Legends but changed their mind.
They had some weird thing where Rip loves the ship and the ship loves him, I thought they were gonna have them merge and he'd become waverider
Yes! Sal!
Remember that Marvel is also terrified of characters aging. Peter Parker has been a young adult since the seventies.
When he was first introduced they we’re actually aging him up
@@mikejones774 Yeah they implemented the sliding timescale thing when Peter was in his mid-twenties and he hasn't left them since.
ooof love DC
I think both of the theories are right although I think they had/have plan or timeline but because of the doomsday clock delay they are trying to fill in the blanks or whatever with new stories and events
In all honesty, yes, but when it needs to change some little details in the story, it's needed.
42:46 them talking about Earth One DC
43:26 Benny I'm still waiting for Volume 3 of Earth One Batman 4 years and still nothing same with Superman
The Justice League series ultimately ends with them killing The Source, destroying the universe lol
I just hope you or Rob will do No Man's Land sometime soon
I think the simple answer to the question is no, DC has no timeline. However, a non simple is yes, we just don't completely know what that timeline is. Because of Hypertime, everything kinda happened, but the Hypertimeline the main DC Universe seems to exist in has been created thanks to the machinations of Doctor Manhattan, & because of that there is a timeline. But what is on that timeline? I have no fucking clue. Take Batman for example (btw check out The Real Batman Chronology Project for the best possible Batman timeline in The New 52 & Rebirth timelines, as well as Pre-Crisis Earth 2 & Earth 1 timelines & Post-Crisis, Pre-Flashpoint timeline). Batman's origin isn't even concrete anymore. Between Crisis On Infinite Earths & Flashpoint, Year One was THE Batman origin. Then The New 52 overwrote it with Zero Year, which has been the canon origin ever since until recently with Peter J. Tomasi's current Detective Comics run, which seems to ignore Zero Year & re-cement Year One as the current origin. Tom King's current Batman run confusingly seems to have Zero Year & Year One having both happened at once, despite that not making sense, as they contradict each other in several major ways. Questions like "What is Two-Face's origin?" & "Which different costumes did Batman wear?" are interesting to think about, but will probably never have an answer. There is & isn't a timeline. So really it just comes down to your personal headcanon.
I swear I thought Sal was DSP until he started talking
The problem is simple. Too many people write DC Comics stories. If there was a main writer for stories like Justice League and then a main writer for each individual comic like Batman, Flash etc then we'd be fine. But there are countless people who write stories on Batman, Flash, Justice League and all that
As someone just getting into DC comics, I am just relieved that I am not the only one not making sense of the timeline as a whole, I just am reading a few events and side characters that I like right now. And if anyone happens to read this comment, can you let me know why is Mera part of the Justice League now?
My issue is w/ the whole perpetuia debacle. Did Flashpoint by all technicality create perpetua and Perpetua create the new 52? In other words was perpetua always there, in the source wall?
Because if not, theres a whole can of mythos that they could explore considering they just announced that the old pre crisis on infinite earths multiverse still exists.
Thawn and barry be at it again
I started with borrowing Graphic Novels from my library, But i didn't really dive into comics tell Rebirth/Dark Metal and after Marvel Secret War Jane Thor, Wolverine X23 and Ms Marvel
I like to think of it as different universes in a multiverse...
Year one
The man who laughs
Long halloween
Dark victory
Catwoman when in rome
Robin and batgirl year one
New 52
Rebirth
If we are going to get ultra violet and infra red... does that mean we could also get Xray lanterns or better yet...... GAMMA LANTERNS
Don't forget about Microwave lanturns🤣
@@MrSHADOWfox99 LOL!
Benny and Sal, Comic Facial Hair Bros.
There is a website called the real batman chronology project that tries its best to estimate timelines throughout the different reboots.
What if DC ended for a entire year what would that be like?
i hope comicstorian gave a tribute for the great stan lee
I would say new 52 is the best jumping on point
the latest episode of titans was awesome