Full podcast episode: th-cam.com/video/F3Jd9GI6XqE/w-d-xo.html Lex Fridman podcast channel: th-cam.com/users/lexfridman Guest bio: Edward Gibson is a psycholinguistics professor at MIT and heads the MIT Language Lab.
Not only the part that this tribe don't have numbers. But they also don't have past or future in their language. There is a really interesting documentary about them called "The Grammar of Happiness" and as well a book by Dan Everett "Don't Sleep, there are snakes" describing the time that him and his family spend in the jungle as missionaries with the Pirahas
Idk if I’ve ever seen so many grammatical errors in a statement that is simultaneously informative & knowledgeable within the context. Makes me feel at home. lol. Thank you 🙏
if you were to offer them a food item or other desirable resource where all items in the set are exactly the same and ask them if they wanted a set with 5 or the set of 7 and then ask them why, there must be a word for more?
I think counting would arrive from trade mainly. Basically, you can't have any form of currency without counting. Any tribe that wants to trade with another tribe will probably expect a very specific number of items received for the number of items given. If you're an isolated tribe, and you don't trade with any other tribes (in fact, you take extreme measures to avoid other tribes), you probably just lose the need for counting. Counting and math also help for construction and city planning, but that's probably only useful for agricultural societies.
I would suggest that its not just farming or counting goats, but the counting of passing days since you cant see em' and they only come one time and you need a grasp on them to become better at farming etc...
I find language interesting and oh this so difficult, so I will watch in part's, it's something I would like to understand more. It's formation thanks Edward sxx bravo juliett
1 to 2 isnt a few. Its a couple. 3 or more but not many could be in the set of "a few". Thats my understanding. I always hated when people said " 2" of something was a " few".
Piraha 1: Oh no, some marxist hogs are chasing us, quick grab the spears. Piraha 2: Yes, I will grab some spears. Family member: Here we come to mourn the loss of our beloved brethren, who bravely fought some pigs with some spears, sadly the pigs were some more than are spears. May we commemorate their lives by fasting for some days . Distant relative: Here we come to mourn the loss our departed brethren, whom hath fasted for some days, sadly they should have stopped have stopped fasting some days before their death to prolong their lives for some more days. Let us fast for some days to commemorate their lives.
Do you mean comparing the Amazon to Africa? The Amazon is 40% of the continent of South America and would've been even more prior to deforestation so it's not really that ridiculous.
Africa has deserts, rainforests, one of the longest rivers and some of the highest mountains. All that diversity can't be compared to a single rainforest .
I realize that Gibson is studying the impact of culture to language of the Amazonians, and these people didn't have words for numbers. So, okay, that is given. But I'm surprised that they didn't show a number of fingers to communicate a given quantity, or something, as a proxy for number words. Of course, not relevant to their language field, but it seems like a lost opportunity for info to someone studying how these communities deal with (communicate) specific quantities (e.g. trade, etc). Whatever.
@doomsk888 I have 12 fingers. My math evolved independently because of this. Calculus and trig are way easier this way. I could teach you, but you already have sausages in your fridge. If you haven't already glued an extra digit on each of your hands to experience this enlightening paradigm shift in mathematical formulation, well, in lieu of a better word, let's just say, you're hopeless.
@kishfoo What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter how many fingers you have, because everyone has fingers (more or less, on the hands, on the feet). They didn't develop numbers because they didn't have "enough" or a different number of fingers in some of the folks, they didn't so for other reasons and live well without them. It is a lack of respect of you thinking because they do not have it now, you can "just show them" and they will have later, without considering their social and cultural context.
@doomsk888 Nope, I must have confused you. They don't have numbers because they never had the need for them. But to play the game of balloons and strings, they need numbers. So a simple way of showing them this concept is to use your fingers and show them by association. Then, they will grasp the concept and make up the necessary words so they can amuse themselves and dazzle the strange foreigners the next tume they play the game of balloons and strings. Easy peasy, nipple squeezy 😃
Just because people at times coin new terms to suit to need does not at all mean that “language is invented.” The universal grammar is due to the fact that we are made in God’s image
Full podcast episode: th-cam.com/video/F3Jd9GI6XqE/w-d-xo.html
Lex Fridman podcast channel: th-cam.com/users/lexfridman
Guest bio: Edward Gibson is a psycholinguistics professor at MIT and heads the MIT Language Lab.
He’s talking at 1.5 speed naturally. I don’t even have to press any buttons.
Because he is all about lies and woke propaganda by 🇮🇱🗑️🇮🇱🗑️🇮🇱🗑️
Love people like this for this very same reason haha.
I think ur brains just a little slow
Not only the part that this tribe don't have numbers. But they also don't have past or future in their language. There is a really interesting documentary about them called "The Grammar of Happiness" and as well a book by Dan Everett "Don't Sleep, there are snakes" describing the time that him and his family spend in the jungle as missionaries with the Pirahas
fascinating indeed!
Sounds like the language of technological stagnation.
Idk if I’ve ever seen so many grammatical errors in a statement that is simultaneously informative & knowledgeable within the context. Makes me feel at home. lol. Thank you 🙏
Love everett
You don’t need to leave the country to go study a rare indigenous language.
Come learn ojibwe or support the native language of the land you live on ❤
Most Americans don’t give a shit, sadly.
Agree. If you're in the US you'll find indigenous languages as interesting as Piraha or any other "exotic" languages
if you were to offer them a food item or other desirable resource where all items in the set are exactly the same and ask them if they wanted a set with 5 or the set of 7 and then ask them why, there must be a word for more?
I think counting would arrive from trade mainly. Basically, you can't have any form of currency without counting. Any tribe that wants to trade with another tribe will probably expect a very specific number of items received for the number of items given. If you're an isolated tribe, and you don't trade with any other tribes (in fact, you take extreme measures to avoid other tribes), you probably just lose the need for counting. Counting and math also help for construction and city planning, but that's probably only useful for agricultural societies.
I would suggest that its not just farming or counting goats, but the counting of passing days since you cant see em' and they only come one time and you need a grasp on them to become better at farming etc...
Lex is like, as a man who sleeps with goats, I'm offended at the notion that people don't care about goat identities
This is mind blowing.
WEIRD! Love it. ❤❤❤
My grandma knew Quechua
Ancient native language .
There’s some Spanish words that are a mix of Quechua/latin
this dude is the smarter version of Tom Cruise
I prefer Tom then. At least I understand the stories he tells.
I find language interesting and oh this so difficult, so I will watch in part's, it's something I would like to understand more. It's formation thanks Edward sxx bravo juliett
They weren't trying to build large scale Structures...Perhaps?
NEED DAN EVERETT ON THE SHOW!!
1 to 2 isnt a few. Its a couple. 3 or more but not many could be in the set of "a few". Thats my understanding. I always hated when people said " 2" of something was a " few".
5:36
It's possible that without greed you don't need to count exactly. Love is fair enough.
❤... + Without shame and guilt
Piraha 1: Oh no, some marxist hogs are chasing us, quick grab the spears.
Piraha 2: Yes, I will grab some spears.
Family member: Here we come to mourn the loss of our beloved brethren, who bravely fought some pigs with some spears,
sadly the pigs were some more than are spears. May we commemorate their lives by fasting for some days .
Distant relative: Here we come to mourn the loss our departed brethren, whom hath fasted for some days, sadly they should have stopped have stopped fasting some days before their death to prolong their lives for some more days. Let us fast for some days to commemorate their lives.
..interesting how math can enter into language...I had an algebra teacher that only gave us word problems...
Hmm to make it more real world?
Literally just compared a whole continent to a forest 3:00
Do you mean comparing the Amazon to Africa? The Amazon is 40% of the continent of South America and would've been even more prior to deforestation so it's not really that ridiculous.
Africa has deserts, rainforests, one of the longest rivers and some of the highest mountains. All that diversity can't be compared to a single rainforest .
I realize that Gibson is studying the impact of culture to language of the Amazonians, and these people didn't have words for numbers. So, okay, that is given. But I'm surprised that they didn't show a number of fingers to communicate a given quantity, or something, as a proxy for number words. Of course, not relevant to their language field, but it seems like a lost opportunity for info to someone studying how these communities deal with (communicate) specific quantities (e.g. trade, etc). Whatever.
Interesting conversation... Apparently... we are all a byproduct of our environment - whether you like it or not...!!!
Language is invented, no duh. This guy is not smart at all.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😢.. 😂😢😢.
I'm interested in language but not these explanations.
Show them your fingers and teach them the concept. Next time you visit them they'll probably have new words for numbers.
they have fingers already, if you don't realize for yourself up to this point. That's not the point of their "lack of discrete numbers".
@doomsk888 I have 12 fingers. My math evolved independently because of this. Calculus and trig are way easier this way. I could teach you, but you already have sausages in your fridge. If you haven't already glued an extra digit on each of your hands to experience this enlightening paradigm shift in mathematical formulation, well, in lieu of a better word, let's just say, you're hopeless.
@kishfoo What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter how many fingers you have, because everyone has fingers (more or less, on the hands, on the feet). They didn't develop numbers because they didn't have "enough" or a different number of fingers in some of the folks, they didn't so for other reasons and live well without them. It is a lack of respect of you thinking because they do not have it now, you can "just show them" and they will have later, without considering their social and cultural context.
@doomsk888 Nope, I must have confused you. They don't have numbers because they never had the need for them. But to play the game of balloons and strings, they need numbers. So a simple way of showing them this concept is to use your fingers and show them by association. Then, they will grasp the concept and make up the necessary words so they can amuse themselves and dazzle the strange foreigners the next tume they play the game of balloons and strings. Easy peasy, nipple squeezy 😃
Just because people at times coin new terms to suit to need does not at all mean that “language is invented.” The universal grammar is due to the fact that we are made in God’s image