glad to see some more well thought out thoughts on the changes in the finals. I think embark needs more detailed and logical feedback and not just "this bad" that gets spammed in the discord n stuff. answering the question of why is always important for the devs to know.
Brother people need to stop calling the game dead like c'mon, I literally can find a game in any mode in under 30 seconds, and even when I turn Crossplay off on Xbox it takes under a damn minute to find a game. You wanna talk about a game that's dead? Try freaking skull and bones THAT game is dead.
Hundred percent bro! Although lately the tournaments have been taking 5 to 10 min for me in NY on Series X but all the other modes load in relatively fast.
The tricky part about the tax idea is that it re-introduces quite a serious problem which is that it makes the early cashouts matter less. Before the update the final cashouts were pretty much the only ones that mattered and that’s still partially true now - the earlier cash is earned the less of it is likely to remain to the end of the game with a tax from team wipes.
Without team wipes the first cash outs feel much less impactful. Typically one team activates and starts the cash out while the other steals and there points remain pretty similar. The first cash out used to be more impactful if you don't team wipe, but progress would be removed for wiping.
Honestly I haven’t felt the rage I used to when getting third partied, and I feel like a big part of it is the lack of wipes and the guaranteed cash when cashing in
I feel like the change to cash out completely destroys the nuances of the game mode. Teams wipes made it so that running in and dying like a bozo was super consequential. There was a lot more brain power needed to play og cashout. Being 3rd’d almost felt like a skill issue cause it meant you were in a bad position. Now it feels like 3rd parties happen more now that players are more kill hungry and have zero consequence other than time for being squad wiped
@@TurboSwag3000 thats true in theory, but playing this weekend it truly felt like the better players qualified. It used to happen a lot where a hail mary attempt could allow you wipe two weak teams, and steal the cashout, taking you from last to first place. I havent seen unfair qualifications since the new update (which funny enough, I did see a complain that this specific form of “chaos” was eliminated) I’m sure I will experience eventually not qualifying against worse teams, but havent yet
@@julio1148 to be fair, I really only played with the new rules for one night, and at the time my buddies and I were pretty salty about the changes. I’ll have to hop back into WT and get a second opinion. I will say, I loved the last second Hail Mary wipes and wins. It sucked when it happened to you, but it was amazing when your team pulls it off. On the flip side, being able to fend off both teams to keep the cashout was absolutely electric. There’s definitely pros and cons to both versions of cashout, but since I haven’t played much I’m, personally, still yet to see the pros of the change.
@@TurboSwag3000 that is totally fair, I did also get the dopamine hit on those last second wins, and not experiencing that last weekend felt odd, but remembering that the objective is to have a better ranked experience for S4, I’ve been net positive on it 👌🏻
@@julio1148 if the changes mean that ranked will be better in S4, then I’m all for it. As much as I’ll miss my OG cash out, growing the game is far more important lmfao
The "Team Wipe Tax" idea sounds good on paper. And it directly addresses my original concerns of a team getting ahead and staying ahead due to no wipe penalty. But it's feels like with this "tax", teams get punished for doing well. And I see that as further incentivizing avoiding a fight when you're winning, which is simply not fun. Almost as not fun as the two top teams mutually agreeing to gatekeep cashboxes to prevent overtime. Even if you consider it a "pro gamer move" to not play the game, it's a lame experience for everyone else involved. So in my opinion, it's less about balancing Risk/Reward, and more about giving the player a reason to stay active no matter where they are on the leaderboard. I think your second and third suggestions would support this. More opportunities to win AND lose for everyone.
Exactly! Ever since the update my world tour matches have been way more exciting, chaotic, and action packed! And that what people say the finals should be, yet they complain.. they also say it doesn’t help with third parties but idk the match is so chaotic and fun I don’t even care about that anymore lol
Great vid and great ideas. I have to say I love your idea for the new casual mode - it already sounds like it could be a lot of fun, while feeling like a more meaningful mode than the 'quick cash'. Also like your thoughts regarding the changes to the main cashout mode - especially the removal of the team wipe penalty. The bonus for a clean hold is a great idea that they definitely should bring into the game. Don't like the partial payment for 50% holds though - for me, what makes cashout so addictive is the jeopardy involved in holding/stealing the cashout, which means there needs to be high risk and high reward. Anything that dilutes the significance of those pivotal moments (eg. stealing a cashout with 2 secs left and going from 3rd to 1st) makes it less of a compelling mode, imo.
That's a good point about a partial payment taking away from the high risk, high reward of the cashout process, and with the ~30% reward for depositing the cashbox, maybe that's sufficient reward prior to the full cashout.
As for creating a new casual mode, here's my crazy suggestion. 5v5 with a power shift kinda platform, but instead the platform moves in a circle around the map if someone is on it or not, this platform is where the vaults spawn on. The cashout stations however are located at either random locations or close to other teams spawns. Either way, the goal would be to get the vault an have to chuck it into the cashout box much like basketball.
I think everything you suggested about the competitive mode was excellent, they were nearly my thoughts exactly. Embark should really consider what you said. I think your team wipe method is a little complicated, but I do like the visual line of where you wipe to. Definitely need some new casual modes, and also we need some limited-time events like steal the spotlight and Wild West. I was thinking just straight capture-the-flag mode would be great. Teams spawn on opposite sides of a map, a vault deep into both spawns, and cashout stations mildly into the spawn area. Objectives are color-coded so you need to get the vault deep into enemy spawn and get it back to the cashout on your side, the cash box is visible at all times not just visible for moments like it is currently, also it will despawn after a certain amount of time out of the vault (and either team can pick it up). Enemies can steal your cashout and it will just stop it, like you suggested in your mode, and the vault will respawn in the enemy area. Complete 3 cashouts to win, the time a cashout takes reduces either as the match goes on or for each unsuccessful cashout. Possibly, coin respawns could be turned off for a team with an active cashout (but you can still revive), and also maybe faster/immediate/forward respawns for the team playing against an active cashout. If time runs out whoever has the most captures wins or sudden death where cashouts immediately complete and next cashout wins. Would need to think about how wench claw moving the cashout would affect balance (like moving it into their spawn, coin respawns being off while cashout is active would probably solve this). Also maybe have 2 vaults and/or 2 cashouts to choose from when attacking/defending. And maybe also a barrier so players could not get too close to the spawn area of the opposite team, make it like the barriers in terminal attack prep phase but color coded and one team can walk through them. Would probably be a 5v5 mode, I think 10v10 would be too much to be playing at one objective; maybe 7v7.
What you said about new game mode is true. The finals desperately needs a new game mode. Preferably a team deathmatch, this will surely attract alot of people and make more players want to grind the game
@@Gameticksgg fuck it. The Finals Forge Mode. The Finals Kart Racing. The Finals Visual Novel (hentai). The Finals Medeival Shift. The Finals Whack-a-Light. The Finals Ableton Live.
On some points I have to definitely agree, but there needs to be some simplicity kept to the game. I believe they are aware and are just testing out to see how the players will react to see how they can make the best possible mode for us. 10v10 casual mode sounds like it would be some call of duty cluster, rather then the so called "The Finals", but it could be a lil fun event.
Perhaps playerbase isn't large enough for "cashout experimental" and Cashout ranked, and TA ranked. I feel they made a good decision there - rather get all cashout players trying the experiments to get better data feedback. I have a good feeling there's a substantial marketing budget for S4, and that they'll add more gun variety, which is quite lacking atm
I've enjoyed world tour quite a bit more since the update. I feel like the team wipe penalty being removed made it more fun for me to play because the cost of playing aggressive is half gone. 30 seconds of being put on the sidelines and spawning across the map are still pretty substantial penalties, depending on the state of the game. Games also seem a lot closer then they did before. It may be true its harder to "get back in the game" if there are no team wipes and you are one of the bottom teams, however without the team wipes, and the other changes, its substantially easier to "stay in the game" for lower skilled teams. I think keeping the team wipe penalty to time and distance is better then removing cash. Team wipes that cost cash incentivize top teams to not play the game by hiding so they don't get wiped that ends up not being fun for them nor the other teams. Even if its a ranked mode the whole point of video games is to have fun. Any move that could make the game less fun should be avoided imo. Great vid btw!
For the cashout team wipe "loss", Embark could maybe implement a decreasing system. Where the first time you get wiped you get a 30% loss, and after you get wiped for the second time maybe a little bit more of a loss, or less of a loss. So that the amount "taxed" gradually becomes more or less per team wipe. And a team can decrease the tax loss by wiping other teams and playing the objective. Idk, just a thought.
The previous cashout rules always had opportunities to jump up or down the scoreboard. Now we have situations where teams are through or out no matter what making the rest of the match meaningless
I agree wholeheartedly with your view on how cashout could be reworked, and i hope embark watches your vids because you've given them the swankiest pass and all they gotta dunk that shit. Have a great day.
So far I’ve enjoyed the cashout update. What I notice, though, is that is “less casual” meaning that I used to be able to qualify at times when my team was clearly the worst in the lobby. That said, upon reflection, I don’t think that’s bad since we want the game to have a fairer ranked for this mode. If you’re better, then you’ll qualify
Honestly a dynamic loss could be interesting. It should be the team that wipes them gets a cut of the cash lost. This would help create incentives for wiping and evens out teams just waiting for a third party.
So this mightt be a lil bit of a hot take, but I feel like ranked should consist of a random game mode playlist. Then make changes to TA to make it fit in more with the "feel" of tthe game. For instance if you changed TA to function almostt more like OW and their payload maps it could work. Allow each team respawns but make the respawn on either end of the map an increase in time after each death while totally disabling in the last miute of game play. Then once the decryt key is entered, you have to defend it for some amount of time before the next key and decryptor is spawned with like a total of 3 per round. Then switch sides an tteam with the best time would win.
Oh wow that Tax idea for team wipes sounds great! Maybe 50% is a bit too harsh, but the system makes perfect sense in terms of incentives and pushing the gameplay in the right direction!
For getting more new players they can add invite program in game when someone invite friends and play with them for like some hours 40-50 or may be get some in game currency maybe 50-70
This tax idea is REALLY good! Edit: so is the 10v10 casual cashout 👀🔥 Some people are saying that it disincentives fighting if you are #1 and this makes winning 'unfun' but i think that doesn't matter cuz if u want to fight you still can. I really like the idea and would make me play this game again
My only problem with the progressive tax system in game is people are already confused in real life about that and I feel like it would be very confusing in game
I don't know much about team wipe penalties, I always liked cashout in casual rather than ranked (which is not a statement, I don't play ranked altogether) but in my opinion a way they can play on the entire cashout formula is to center the majority of the game mode around getting the cashbox to the cashout station. I've been thinking about this ever since they dropped the 2nd trailer to the game, set in the Seoul map, if they want the game to be more dynamic and less filled with campers and 3rd partiers, then just like that Seoul trailer, the fights should take place chasing the cashbox rather than attacking and defending the cashout station. There should only be 1 cashout station and 1 cashbox at any given time, the cashout station should be unmarked and invisible up until the cashbox is within a set proximity to it, a "shortest path to the cashout" line appears on the world for whoever's holding the cashbox and their team (similar to GPS lines on open world games), a "progression bar" (similar to escort/payload gamemodes in games like overwatch/TF2) appears universally on the HUD to show vaguely and linearly how close the cashbox is to the cashout. The primary way to make money in this mode is to fill that progression bar best you can, 70% of the cashbox will be spread out through that progression bar and will be instantly deposited to the team who makes progress on the path to the cashout (any throws of the cashbox that progress the path will be awarded to the player who made the throw's team), if the cashbox makes negative progress the cashflow will halt and pick up again when more new progress is made. the remaining 30% will start a short cashout sequence dependant on how much money it is, in this sequence, anyone who steals the cashout gets to keep the entire 30%. The cashout station will always try to spawn in the farthest possible big area of the map, it ideally will not spawn in any cramped Monaco attics or tight Seoul rooms. Team wipes will last much shorter but still damage your financials, players will be incentivized to stay dynamic but also try to guess where the path is to set up more large scale ambushes and traps instead of your average "fill room with gas lol" strategy, such as destroying bridges or setting up mines and C4s that will de-level buildings, etc. etc. bring some more of that environmental destruction to the forefront of the game. As a sledge main who gets to literally do anything in a match, it's always so depressing seeing people equip their XP5s and FCARs, play identically to CoD, plateau in skill, get bored and quit....
I have thoroughly enjoyed world tour less and many games left puzzled to why we lost and the frequency we have lost. I've also noticed a dramatic increase in the amount of toxicity show to teammates in this version.
I honestly see no issue with S2 ranked if it had matchmaking balance and maybe a solo/team queue if we have enough players. All the changes so far in season 3 have seem to be for the people who don't want to/don't know how to play around the objective.
Call me controversial, but I think third-party is an essential element to the finals. I find it personally exciting and part of the challenge when you know those are always that risk of another team coming in. This being said I completely agree then needs to be a risk reward ratio that players understand when making third-party actions
@@The_Goo_Lord I don’t think this is possible, unfortunately. The cost (as in computational cost) of having server-side destruction and movement makes it too hard. 10 v 10 might be possible though.
I'm having a hard time keeping track of where the money came from on this version. I wish the lil money bars had slightly different colored sections for "from cashbox" and "from elims".
Also the 30% instantly awarded on deposit is waaay to much. Playing as light you can just run around grabbing boxes and depositing even when a team is defending the point. And with no penalty for dying makes this even easier. Coining had also pretty much become worthless and suiciding to get your team grouped up is viable
You will rarely be in a situation where eliminating your own team is viable… only on games 1500 apart Also the guaranteed cash has helped a ton aliviating how punishing third partying was, and if you get every cashout stolen, you won’t qualify
i kinda like the idea of a 10v10 casual mode where the risk for new players isnt too high and its not too serious. a fun mode where you can try out new loadouts and niche weapons without feeling like throwing the round. 10v10 might be a little to much tho idk. imagine running into a room and there are like 7 oponents lol
Love this video. All changes you suggested sound good. I doubt that they'll do it though. Somehow, as the season goes on, the game's optimisation and QOL keeps getting worse and worse. My friends and I have given this a name. We call it "The Embark Effect" lol
The most fun way to play this game is to fight and try to dominate, not run from fights or be dead and watch your 3rd teammate hiding in a corner.. and if your entire team dies you all have to wait to respawn and you then spawn far away from your initial fight and that should be penalizing enough.
I think quick cash already is the perfect cash out-like casual mode… don’t think 2 teams of 10v10 would be good tbh. 3 teams creates the chaos that makes finals so fun. Also 10v10 May get rid of third partying but it makes it way more likely that a player accidentally stumbles into way more enemies than they can handle. If it’s aimed at new and casual players, you can’t expect the teams to be playing together and planning stuff out
These changes to cashout have made defending a point worthless. Those games where you are alone defending your box and the other 3 teams are fighting for the other one leave you at a disadvantage because you aren’t getting kills. Why are we being punished for holding down a position well
I think 10v10 is far too high of players for the mode. 5v5 at the most. The problem isn’t the fights over the boxes itself but the cash out part. 20 players all fighting over one objective would be a bit much imo. Also your new mode of cash out is far to different than the standard mode. The idea of the casual mode of cash out is to practice the mode, the new mode you suggested isn’t bad as a new mode but I feel it would confuse people to much when they delve into rank and it’s a totally new game mode.
I think instead of not losing 30% to not losing anything let it be like this if u or one of ur team member kills the other team and they got wipe then ur team gets 30% so its accshly the other way around is better The players not gonna 3 party just cuz they want but only cuz they need it to win. I hope embark do this cuz this is the situation no joke think about it 30% + if u or ur team wipe a team thats nice
I see TA being pushed into ranked as simple corporate interference. Nexon saw there were a bunch of cash cow games like overwatch with a 5v5 system and thought that was a good idea to go towards. Most people weren’t happy with it, and the best way to display your displeasure is to simply not play that game mode. Nexon may not give a shit, but Embark will have numbers to back up a move to take TA out of ranked.
Team wipe tax idea is too punishing imo. Having a flat %value based on your place would make more sense: 4th place - 10% 3th place - 15% 2th place - 20% 1th place - 30%
In my opinion Terminal Attack belongs in Tac Fps games like CSGO and Valorant and not Fast-paced hero shooters like The Finals especially not the games only ranked mode
Don’t you think that the team wipe penalty would make teams just play safe and hide if there’s only one player left alive ? They would just sit and wait till they can either get a Rez or wait for a teammate to spawn back. During that time whichever can just steal the box and now let’s say that the 1st place team can come back and they get wiped trying to take the box back from a third party or something , not only did they lose the box and fight for what will feel like 30 mins , they get such a big penalty because they got wiped. I under the penalty but it’s not needed. With the changes they just made , it makes people more hungry to fight and other teams still have a fighting chance to make a big play to be in a position to win
RHB my man !! Love ur content buddy ! You forgot about the face cam :D Also I don't think too many casual modes whould be great - Powershift is a must but with some tweaks (for instance random path for platform, not displayed, meaning more random spawns - Bankit as is seems kinda good - Your idea of casual cashout is really nice - +1 nobrainer : team death match Also kill cam is needed to chase better the cheaterz Regarding cashout ranked, Did you watch Piggy's version of a better ranked system ? I like this => th-cam.com/video/HXGI9n7cyJk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ykCv4TuBmfH7VLd7
I feel the season is too long in the finals, games like Call of Duty have 2 seasons within 1 season of the finals. My point being there is lack of content throughout the season and gets played out too fast
I think comp is more important for the game then casual modes, Comp in everygame i have ever played is the flagship mode that all the streamers and content creators mainly play, for the finals to make a good case to potential players it needs to have a strong competitive mode and i think It should be the priority, the sooner the finals has a polished competitive mode the sooner larger events will take place and people will aspire to grind more therefor introducing more players to the game
All good, but 10v10 mode is certified clown moment. Much TA games cant start, because no one playing it, so it is impossible to find twice as much. IMO casual mode must be 3v3 copying final stage of Tournament
I can talk about console experience. Game its too hard for casual player whit actually crossplay system, is not fun. I had a lot of ppl playing on console, after crossplay change they just stop playing. Never come back. For new player is the worst experience you may have on fps game in any mode. So if you want new player (console side) you need to make M&K support on console or just make crossplay by device.
1:11 completely ignoring Xbox and ps. I know for Xbox at least it’s consistently top 20 among all free games. Another good indication is make a new account, pop into the game and play several matches of world tour. Your rank is a good indication. Having played WT up to rank like silver 3 I’m at around 50k in position, from a start of like 400+ k. Buddy of mine played a few matches earlier into the season and ended up at 250~k in placement. There are some very good metrics, you can’t just look at pc for a game across three diverse platforms
@@MothFable it doesn’t ignore console - Dusty literally said across all platforms. The WT ranking will only show you total players who have logged on and become ranked throughout the season, not DAILY active users. Not everyone plays daily of course, but you have to have some timeframe around the numbers to come up with a figure.
@@RockhoundBlack he mentioned the multiple platforms while not really bringing up any specific statistics there but instead using estimates. And WT matches aren’t the best, I agree, but that’s why I said multiple rounds before checking, because WT is a hard number across all platforms. It’s a more solid estimate at least.
glad to see some more well thought out thoughts on the changes in the finals. I think embark needs more detailed and logical feedback and not just "this bad" that gets spammed in the discord n stuff. answering the question of why is always important for the devs to know.
Brother people need to stop calling the game dead like c'mon, I literally can find a game in any mode in under 30 seconds, and even when I turn Crossplay off on Xbox it takes under a damn minute to find a game. You wanna talk about a game that's dead? Try freaking skull and bones THAT game is dead.
Exactly
@@kunai3174 people will call any game that isn’t Fortnite dead.
Same.
Look at shatterline
Hundred percent bro! Although lately the tournaments have been taking 5 to 10 min for me in NY on Series X but all the other modes load in relatively fast.
The opening section on the player counts really helped out my issues w/ DAUs. Very well put!
The tricky part about the tax idea is that it re-introduces quite a serious problem which is that it makes the early cashouts matter less. Before the update the final cashouts were pretty much the only ones that mattered and that’s still partially true now - the earlier cash is earned the less of it is likely to remain to the end of the game with a tax from team wipes.
Without team wipes the first cash outs feel much less impactful. Typically one team activates and starts the cash out while the other steals and there points remain pretty similar.
The first cash out used to be more impactful if you don't team wipe, but progress would be removed for wiping.
Honestly I haven’t felt the rage I used to when getting third partied, and I feel like a big part of it is the lack of wipes and the guaranteed cash when cashing in
I feel like the change to cash out completely destroys the nuances of the game mode. Teams wipes made it so that running in and dying like a bozo was super consequential. There was a lot more brain power needed to play og cashout. Being 3rd’d almost felt like a skill issue cause it meant you were in a bad position. Now it feels like 3rd parties happen more now that players are more kill hungry and have zero consequence other than time for being squad wiped
@@TurboSwag3000 thats true in theory, but playing this weekend it truly felt like the better players qualified. It used to happen a lot where a hail mary attempt could allow you wipe two weak teams, and steal the cashout, taking you from last to first place.
I havent seen unfair qualifications since the new update (which funny enough, I did see a complain that this specific form of “chaos” was eliminated)
I’m sure I will experience eventually not qualifying against worse teams, but havent yet
@@julio1148 to be fair, I really only played with the new rules for one night, and at the time my buddies and I were pretty salty about the changes. I’ll have to hop back into WT and get a second opinion. I will say, I loved the last second Hail Mary wipes and wins. It sucked when it happened to you, but it was amazing when your team pulls it off. On the flip side, being able to fend off both teams to keep the cashout was absolutely electric. There’s definitely pros and cons to both versions of cashout, but since I haven’t played much I’m, personally, still yet to see the pros of the change.
@@TurboSwag3000 that is totally fair, I did also get the dopamine hit on those last second wins, and not experiencing that last weekend felt odd, but remembering that the objective is to have a better ranked experience for S4, I’ve been net positive on it 👌🏻
@@julio1148 if the changes mean that ranked will be better in S4, then I’m all for it. As much as I’ll miss my OG cash out, growing the game is far more important lmfao
The "Team Wipe Tax" idea sounds good on paper. And it directly addresses my original concerns of a team getting ahead and staying ahead due to no wipe penalty. But it's feels like with this "tax", teams get punished for doing well. And I see that as further incentivizing avoiding a fight when you're winning, which is simply not fun.
Almost as not fun as the two top teams mutually agreeing to gatekeep cashboxes to prevent overtime. Even if you consider it a "pro gamer move" to not play the game, it's a lame experience for everyone else involved.
So in my opinion, it's less about balancing Risk/Reward, and more about giving the player a reason to stay active no matter where they are on the leaderboard. I think your second and third suggestions would support this. More opportunities to win AND lose for everyone.
Exactly! Ever since the update my world tour matches have been way more exciting, chaotic, and action packed! And that what people say the finals should be, yet they complain.. they also say it doesn’t help with third parties but idk the match is so chaotic and fun I don’t even care about that anymore lol
I strongly agree
nah, without wipe tax, smart winning teams are just camping last cashbox, helping the wrost team, so they will have easier final
@@Kek9z can confirm, my friends and i do exactly that
Good vid bro, just found the channel. The 10v10 mode is a solid idea. Keep up the good work 👍
The fact that the game realeased like last year and we already taking this game seriously lmao but its a w game definitely not ded
Dude your content is really smart - keep it up and I'm sure S4 is going to be big for you
Great vid and great ideas. I have to say I love your idea for the new casual mode - it already sounds like it could be a lot of fun, while feeling like a more meaningful mode than the 'quick cash'. Also like your thoughts regarding the changes to the main cashout mode - especially the removal of the team wipe penalty. The bonus for a clean hold is a great idea that they definitely should bring into the game. Don't like the partial payment for 50% holds though - for me, what makes cashout so addictive is the jeopardy involved in holding/stealing the cashout, which means there needs to be high risk and high reward. Anything that dilutes the significance of those pivotal moments (eg. stealing a cashout with 2 secs left and going from 3rd to 1st) makes it less of a compelling mode, imo.
That's a good point about a partial payment taking away from the high risk, high reward of the cashout process, and with the ~30% reward for depositing the cashbox, maybe that's sufficient reward prior to the full cashout.
As for creating a new casual mode, here's my crazy suggestion. 5v5 with a power shift kinda platform, but instead the platform moves in a circle around the map if someone is on it or not, this platform is where the vaults spawn on. The cashout stations however are located at either random locations or close to other teams spawns. Either way, the goal would be to get the vault an have to chuck it into the cashout box much like basketball.
Thank you so much for making these detailed and organized videos! :)
these episodes are so exciting. reminds me there's a lot more going on in the finals than meets the eye.
I think everything you suggested about the competitive mode was excellent, they were nearly my thoughts exactly. Embark should really consider what you said. I think your team wipe method is a little complicated, but I do like the visual line of where you wipe to.
Definitely need some new casual modes, and also we need some limited-time events like steal the spotlight and Wild West.
I was thinking just straight capture-the-flag mode would be great. Teams spawn on opposite sides of a map, a vault deep into both spawns, and cashout stations mildly into the spawn area. Objectives are color-coded so you need to get the vault deep into enemy spawn and get it back to the cashout on your side, the cash box is visible at all times not just visible for moments like it is currently, also it will despawn after a certain amount of time out of the vault (and either team can pick it up). Enemies can steal your cashout and it will just stop it, like you suggested in your mode, and the vault will respawn in the enemy area. Complete 3 cashouts to win, the time a cashout takes reduces either as the match goes on or for each unsuccessful cashout. Possibly, coin respawns could be turned off for a team with an active cashout (but you can still revive), and also maybe faster/immediate/forward respawns for the team playing against an active cashout. If time runs out whoever has the most captures wins or sudden death where cashouts immediately complete and next cashout wins.
Would need to think about how wench claw moving the cashout would affect balance (like moving it into their spawn, coin respawns being off while cashout is active would probably solve this). Also maybe have 2 vaults and/or 2 cashouts to choose from when attacking/defending. And maybe also a barrier so players could not get too close to the spawn area of the opposite team, make it like the barriers in terminal attack prep phase but color coded and one team can walk through them. Would probably be a 5v5 mode, I think 10v10 would be too much to be playing at one objective; maybe 7v7.
Interesting video, I'm looking forward to the Finals Future 😁
What you said about new game mode is true. The finals desperately needs a new game mode. Preferably a team deathmatch, this will surely attract alot of people and make more players want to grind the game
bank it
@@Gameticksgg fuck it.
The Finals Forge Mode.
The Finals Kart Racing.
The Finals Visual Novel (hentai).
The Finals Medeival Shift.
The Finals Whack-a-Light.
The Finals Ableton Live.
On some points I have to definitely agree, but there needs to be some simplicity kept to the game.
I believe they are aware and are just testing out to see how the players will react to see how they can make the best possible mode for us.
10v10 casual mode sounds like it would be some call of duty cluster, rather then the so called "The Finals", but it could be a lil fun event.
Perhaps playerbase isn't large enough for "cashout experimental" and Cashout ranked, and TA ranked. I feel they made a good decision there - rather get all cashout players trying the experiments to get better data feedback. I have a good feeling there's a substantial marketing budget for S4, and that they'll add more gun variety, which is quite lacking atm
Yeahhhh super awesome news and hot topics man
Love the team wipe idea
Love these cashout ideas
Kia Kaha! Great stuff!
I've enjoyed world tour quite a bit more since the update. I feel like the team wipe penalty being removed made it more fun for me to play because the cost of playing aggressive is half gone. 30 seconds of being put on the sidelines and spawning across the map are still pretty substantial penalties, depending on the state of the game. Games also seem a lot closer then they did before. It may be true its harder to "get back in the game" if there are no team wipes and you are one of the bottom teams, however without the team wipes, and the other changes, its substantially easier to "stay in the game" for lower skilled teams. I think keeping the team wipe penalty to time and distance is better then removing cash. Team wipes that cost cash incentivize top teams to not play the game by hiding so they don't get wiped that ends up not being fun for them nor the other teams. Even if its a ranked mode the whole point of video games is to have fun. Any move that could make the game less fun should be avoided imo. Great vid btw!
For the cashout team wipe "loss", Embark could maybe implement a decreasing system.
Where the first time you get wiped you get a 30% loss, and after you get wiped for the second time maybe a little bit more of a loss, or less of a loss.
So that the amount "taxed" gradually becomes more or less per team wipe.
And a team can decrease the tax loss by wiping other teams and playing the objective.
Idk, just a thought.
12:30
powershift was the reason to why i got back to the finals
and i play ranked world tour now
The previous cashout rules always had opportunities to jump up or down the scoreboard. Now we have situations where teams are through or out no matter what making the rest of the match meaningless
I agree wholeheartedly with your view on how cashout could be reworked, and i hope embark watches your vids because you've given them the swankiest pass and all they gotta dunk that shit. Have a great day.
So far I’ve enjoyed the cashout update. What I notice, though, is that is “less casual” meaning that I used to be able to qualify at times when my team was clearly the worst in the lobby. That said, upon reflection, I don’t think that’s bad since we want the game to have a fairer ranked for this mode. If you’re better, then you’ll qualify
I thought of that casual cashout mode as well! But it should be 6 v 6 imo since it better matches the density of players in a regular cashout mode
Honestly a dynamic loss could be interesting. It should be the team that wipes them gets a cut of the cash lost. This would help create incentives for wiping and evens out teams just waiting for a third party.
Good content
So this mightt be a lil bit of a hot take, but I feel like ranked should consist of a random game mode playlist. Then make changes to TA to make it fit in more with the "feel" of tthe game. For instance if you changed TA to function almostt more like OW and their payload maps it could work. Allow each team respawns but make the respawn on either end of the map an increase in time after each death while totally disabling in the last miute of game play. Then once the decryt key is entered, you have to defend it for some amount of time before the next key and decryptor is spawned with like a total of 3 per round. Then switch sides an tteam with the best time would win.
Oh wow that Tax idea for team wipes sounds great! Maybe 50% is a bit too harsh, but the system makes perfect sense in terms of incentives and pushing the gameplay in the right direction!
For getting more new players they can add invite program in game when someone invite friends and play with them for like some hours 40-50 or may be get some in game currency maybe 50-70
This tax idea is REALLY good!
Edit: so is the 10v10 casual cashout 👀🔥
Some people are saying that it disincentives fighting if you are #1 and this makes winning 'unfun' but i think that doesn't matter cuz if u want to fight you still can.
I really like the idea and would make me play this game again
My only problem with the progressive tax system in game is people are already confused in real life about that and I feel like it would be very confusing in game
well, i mean if you break it down to "tax the rich" Im thinking everyone will get it eventually
@@taru3374 use brain
I don't know much about team wipe penalties, I always liked cashout in casual rather than ranked (which is not a statement, I don't play ranked altogether) but in my opinion a way they can play on the entire cashout formula is to center the majority of the game mode around getting the cashbox to the cashout station.
I've been thinking about this ever since they dropped the 2nd trailer to the game, set in the Seoul map, if they want the game to be more dynamic and less filled with campers and 3rd partiers, then just like that Seoul trailer, the fights should take place chasing the cashbox rather than attacking and defending the cashout station.
There should only be 1 cashout station and 1 cashbox at any given time, the cashout station should be unmarked and invisible up until the cashbox is within a set proximity to it, a "shortest path to the cashout" line appears on the world for whoever's holding the cashbox and their team (similar to GPS lines on open world games), a "progression bar" (similar to escort/payload gamemodes in games like overwatch/TF2) appears universally on the HUD to show vaguely and linearly how close the cashbox is to the cashout.
The primary way to make money in this mode is to fill that progression bar best you can, 70% of the cashbox will be spread out through that progression bar and will be instantly deposited to the team who makes progress on the path to the cashout (any throws of the cashbox that progress the path will be awarded to the player who made the throw's team), if the cashbox makes negative progress the cashflow will halt and pick up again when more new progress is made. the remaining 30% will start a short cashout sequence dependant on how much money it is, in this sequence, anyone who steals the cashout gets to keep the entire 30%.
The cashout station will always try to spawn in the farthest possible big area of the map, it ideally will not spawn in any cramped Monaco attics or tight Seoul rooms. Team wipes will last much shorter but still damage your financials, players will be incentivized to stay dynamic but also try to guess where the path is to set up more large scale ambushes and traps instead of your average "fill room with gas lol" strategy, such as destroying bridges or setting up mines and C4s that will de-level buildings, etc. etc. bring some more of that environmental destruction to the forefront of the game.
As a sledge main who gets to literally do anything in a match, it's always so depressing seeing people equip their XP5s and FCARs, play identically to CoD, plateau in skill, get bored and quit....
I have thoroughly enjoyed world tour less and many games left puzzled to why we lost and the frequency we have lost.
I've also noticed a dramatic increase in the amount of toxicity show to teammates in this version.
Like the tax idea
I honestly see no issue with S2 ranked if it had matchmaking balance and maybe a solo/team queue if we have enough players. All the changes so far in season 3 have seem to be for the people who don't want to/don't know how to play around the objective.
Honesly a 6v6 bank it/cashout hybrid could be the perfect casual mode
Call me controversial, but I think third-party is an essential element to the finals. I find it personally exciting and part of the challenge when you know those are always that risk of another team coming in. This being said I completely agree then needs to be a risk reward ratio that players understand when making third-party actions
I keep cross play off and get into games in a few seconds.
I need a Battlefield sized game mode though.
64 player games in the finals
@@The_Goo_Lord I don’t think this is possible, unfortunately. The cost (as in computational cost) of having server-side destruction and movement makes it too hard. 10 v 10 might be possible though.
I'm having a hard time keeping track of where the money came from on this version. I wish the lil money bars had slightly different colored sections for "from cashbox" and "from elims".
🎉
Also the 30% instantly awarded on deposit is waaay to much. Playing as light you can just run around grabbing boxes and depositing even when a team is defending the point. And with no penalty for dying makes this even easier. Coining had also pretty much become worthless and suiciding to get your team grouped up is viable
Maybe i shouldnt have used the ‘s’ word
You will rarely be in a situation where eliminating your own team is viable… only on games 1500 apart
Also the guaranteed cash has helped a ton aliviating how punishing third partying was, and if you get every cashout stolen, you won’t qualify
@@julio1148 no i mean if you are the last alive its faster to unalive and respawn together
@@o4366 ooooohhh yes true but is that bad?
@@julio1148 yes you shouldnt be allowed to easily respawn ur team like that, coins and reviving are how the game is supposed to be played
The cashbox should slow deposit money into your cashbar.
If the world tour badge progress wasnt broken, it wouldnt be soo bad.
Tax brackets are such a good idea
i kinda like the idea of a 10v10 casual mode where the risk for new players isnt too high and its not too serious. a fun mode where you can try out new loadouts and niche weapons without feeling like throwing the round. 10v10 might be a little to much tho idk. imagine running into a room and there are like 7 oponents lol
A way to Deal third party is when you whipe another team our team get revive and maybe a life regen
Love this video. All changes you suggested sound good. I doubt that they'll do it though. Somehow, as the season goes on, the game's optimisation and QOL keeps getting worse and worse.
My friends and I have given this a name. We call it "The Embark Effect" lol
The most fun way to play this game is to fight and try to dominate, not run from fights or be dead and watch your 3rd teammate hiding in a corner.. and if your entire team dies you all have to wait to respawn and you then spawn far away from your initial fight and that should be penalizing enough.
Id love to see a 10v10 warmode
I think quick cash already is the perfect cash out-like casual mode… don’t think 2 teams of 10v10 would be good tbh. 3 teams creates the chaos that makes finals so fun. Also 10v10 May get rid of third partying but it makes it way more likely that a player accidentally stumbles into way more enemies than they can handle. If it’s aimed at new and casual players, you can’t expect the teams to be playing together and planning stuff out
These changes to cashout have made defending a point worthless. Those games where you are alone defending your box and the other 3 teams are fighting for the other one leave you at a disadvantage because you aren’t getting kills. Why are we being punished for holding down a position well
The tax idea I feel just encourages the top team to hide at least one member since they would lose too much from a wipe
I think 10v10 is far too high of players for the mode. 5v5 at the most. The problem isn’t the fights over the boxes itself but the cash out part. 20 players all fighting over one objective would be a bit much imo. Also your new mode of cash out is far to different than the standard mode. The idea of the casual mode of cash out is to practice the mode, the new mode you suggested isn’t bad as a new mode but I feel it would confuse people to much when they delve into rank and it’s a totally new game mode.
this vid is great
embark plz watch
I think instead of not losing 30% to not losing anything let it be like this if u or one of ur team member kills the other team and they got wipe then ur team gets 30% so its accshly the other way around is better
The players not gonna 3 party just cuz they want but only cuz they need it to win.
I hope embark do this cuz this is the situation no joke think about it 30% + if u or ur team wipe a team thats nice
🌹
I see TA being pushed into ranked as simple corporate interference. Nexon saw there were a bunch of cash cow games like overwatch with a 5v5 system and thought that was a good idea to go towards. Most people weren’t happy with it, and the best way to display your displeasure is to simply not play that game mode. Nexon may not give a shit, but Embark will have numbers to back up a move to take TA out of ranked.
They should add the desert eagle
Team wipe tax idea is too punishing imo. Having a flat %value based on your place would make more sense:
4th place - 10%
3th place - 15%
2th place - 20%
1th place - 30%
In my opinion Terminal Attack belongs in Tac Fps games like CSGO and Valorant and not Fast-paced hero shooters like The Finals especially not the games only ranked mode
What if wipes start at 5% and go up every wipe caping at 30%
Is anyone on OCE servers able to get a world tour match? It feels like no one in OCE is playing it.
We’ve gotten the occasional match, but often play Asia servers. It’s not too bad ping-wise.
Don’t you think that the team wipe penalty would make teams just play safe and hide if there’s only one player left alive ? They would just sit and wait till they can either get a Rez or wait for a teammate to spawn back. During that time whichever can just steal the box and now let’s say that the 1st place team can come back and they get wiped trying to take the box back from a third party or something , not only did they lose the box and fight for what will feel like 30 mins , they get such a big penalty because they got wiped. I under the penalty but it’s not needed. With the changes they just made , it makes people more hungry to fight and other teams still have a fighting chance to make a big play to be in a position to win
RHB my man !! Love ur content buddy ! You forgot about the face cam :D
Also I don't think too many casual modes whould be great
- Powershift is a must but with some tweaks (for instance random path for platform, not displayed, meaning more random spawns
- Bankit as is seems kinda good
- Your idea of casual cashout is really nice
- +1 nobrainer : team death match
Also kill cam is needed to chase better the cheaterz
Regarding cashout ranked, Did you watch Piggy's version of a better ranked system ? I like this => th-cam.com/video/HXGI9n7cyJk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ykCv4TuBmfH7VLd7
Yeah I hate the removal of team wipe penalty, it's making me more hate my beloved the finals
SECOND!!!!
FIRST!!!!!
You misspelt "third" 😂
I feel the season is too long in the finals, games like Call of Duty have 2 seasons within 1 season of the finals. My point being there is lack of content throughout the season and gets played out too fast
Game is not dead not for till 2025
FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10 v 10 sounds fun
I think comp is more important for the game then casual modes, Comp in everygame i have ever played is the flagship mode that all the streamers and content creators mainly play, for the finals to make a good case to potential players it needs to have a strong competitive mode and i think It should be the priority, the sooner the finals has a polished competitive mode the sooner larger events will take place and people will aspire to grind more therefor introducing more players to the game
Nama Tamabacus 🥚🧮
All good, but 10v10 mode is certified clown moment. Much TA games cant start, because no one playing it, so it is impossible to find twice as much. IMO casual mode must be 3v3 copying final stage of Tournament
I can talk about console experience. Game its too hard for casual player whit actually crossplay system, is not fun. I had a lot of ppl playing on console, after crossplay change they just stop playing. Never come back. For new player is the worst experience you may have on fps game in any mode. So if you want new player (console side) you need to make M&K support on console or just make crossplay by device.
6v6 cashout
1:11 completely ignoring Xbox and ps. I know for Xbox at least it’s consistently top 20 among all free games. Another good indication is make a new account, pop into the game and play several matches of world tour. Your rank is a good indication. Having played WT up to rank like silver 3 I’m at around 50k in position, from a start of like 400+ k. Buddy of mine played a few matches earlier into the season and ended up at 250~k in placement. There are some very good metrics, you can’t just look at pc for a game across three diverse platforms
@@MothFable it doesn’t ignore console - Dusty literally said across all platforms. The WT ranking will only show you total players who have logged on and become ranked throughout the season, not DAILY active users. Not everyone plays daily of course, but you have to have some timeframe around the numbers to come up with a figure.
@@RockhoundBlack he mentioned the multiple platforms while not really bringing up any specific statistics there but instead using estimates. And WT matches aren’t the best, I agree, but that’s why I said multiple rounds before checking, because WT is a hard number across all platforms. It’s a more solid estimate at least.