Good ish homie! Your point on short form content + timing was a big wake up call for me as I've been investing so much time into trying to learn Slog3 Color Grading and it's like "why am I really doing this?". Thanks again!
I’m not a pro, but have been shooting is Slog-3 and it’s always a struggle in post. I switched to S-Cinetone for the first time today and the images are great! Right out of the camera they are great. I’m a convert to S-Cinetone! Love it!
Totally agree. I just got my a6700 and tried editing Slog3 and it’s so time consuming trying to get the image to look the way I want. I’m switching to S-Cinetone
What are your settings for the S- CINETONE THOUGH, thought you were gonna show on the camera how you set it up.. perhaps in another video? Sticking to S- CINETONE on my Sony ZV E10. YIPPEE..
If I have the turnaround time, I prefer S-log 3 and use a good LUT (currently Phantom LUTs are my fav) BUT I recently had a shoot where I had a short turnaround window and used S-Cinetone and I was floored with how good the footage looked right out of the camera! It's really a great look. It's important to note the base ISOs for S-Cinetone on the FX3 are 100 and 2000. So try to stick with one of those ISOs. Night streetlight lit shots with S-Cinetone and ISO 2000 @F1.4, looks very good.
I've struggled with Slog3 and converting to S-Cinetone since it was included in the cameras a while ago, but every so often, I run across videos like this that motivate me to give it another shot. So thank you...I'll give it another shot. :) Great video!
Shot in S Log 3 since the a7iii… recently started using s-cinetone hard to imagine ever going back. Workflow is so quick. 85% of my work is in s-cine now.
Thanks bro, I'm going back to S-Cinetone after a load of work using S-LOG3. I just keep getting mixed results, especially low-light as you say - despite using zebras and exposure meters.
Since I also own the A7IV and like to shoot in S-Cinetone more, how do you work with S-Cinetone in (extreme) lowlight (ISO, your experience with noise etc.)
for weddings, do you use autofocus lenses? I feel like it'd be easier but I have Cine lenses but manual focus seems like way to much work for that line of work lol
so for weddings, I 100% use auto focus. unless Im trying to do a specific shot. Its way easier and most of the time you dont really want to spend time locking in focus cause these small moments happen so fast. Hope this helps!
On my a74 I noticed iso 640 to 800 using the phantom luts in low light gives me the cleanest image in slog 3. Even though 3200 is the 2nd native iso, I’ve learned to stay away from it in low light if I have a lot of shadows in my image.
Slog3 for the DR and higher base ISO. You can shoot slog3 and back in a LUT for fast turnaround. Slog3 does not require extra 1.5 stop exposure. Just add the exposure LUT in the external monitor and use false colors to absolutely know exposure.
I appreciate your take on this. I Just got an FX30 and I've been shooting in s-cinetone. It's awesome. Such a good looking image, and so simple to use.
I use to shoot in S-Cinetone. However the I wasn’t happy with the flexibility if you mess white balance. The Dynamic range is far superior in S-Log3. After getting comfortable with Log, it’s hard to go back to Cinetone.
Why on the earth slog3 should give more flexibility on white balance? 🥴 People just don't understand how colours are encoded. Slog3 gives you more dynamic range, but you'll pay it on room for pushing colors.
I may have to start trying S-Cinetone. I just bought a Sony A7siii as a Blackmagic Pocket 6k user. On my Pocket 6K, I'm able to trust the image I'm getting in camera holds up on post. But in S-Log 3 with Sony, overexposing by +2 stos in camera is so counterintuitive. And, like you implied, if you don't overexpose enough, you'll get nasty noise artifacts in skin tones. This forces me to do entire shoots on 12,800 ISO with an ND filter, which probably has its own impact on the image. A couple questions: have you ever tried the -2 stops Phantom Luts with S-log 3 to any success? And with S-Cinetone, how much flexibility do you have with color grading?
Grats on your switch ok. so as far as the phantom luts go, they are GREAT. I love them. so yes to that. As far as color grading goes using s cinetone… Id say its not as flexible as slog3, however, you’ll definitely be able to pull a “look out of it” It’ll take a bit before the image starts to fall apart. Hope this helps.
Thanks. I'm a newbie who was starting to feel I needed to learn how to use S-Log3 properly. But having reviewed many pros/cons for both, I have decided that I need to get up and running comfortably with S-Cinetone, rather than 'trying to run before I can walk'. I have an FX3 and an A7iv. Former a new purchase - prob driven by all the hype and claimed low light capability. Base dual ISO of 800/12,800 sounds fantastic, but often as not a heavy ND is required. The dual base ISO in S-Cinetone is circa 3 stops lower at 100/2000 - so less ND is required and although less dynamic range (slightly) noise in the shadows is a lot better. So my take conceptually is that S-Log3 is theoretically the better profile for max dynamic range, but it comes with a heavy on-cost in terms of post colour grading work (not great given my current inexperience editing within DaVinci and may yet look worse until my grading skills are 'up to snuff'. I'm now in the keep it simple approach and will slowly start experimenting to see just when and where S-Log makes real world sense. Am I being short sighted? Should I just knuckle down and get with the heavy tech grading prog to get max benefit from an improved DR?
Hey everyone, I just got my first camera a zve1 I’m super green with videography and photography and will be this s-cinetone setting … this s-log thing is intimidating. What picture profile and setting
Totally feel the same. With Run & Gun events i dont have the time to expose for slog. So i go with sCinetone. Glad i am not the only one. Keep your work up. Definetly getting a follow from me. Cheers 🍻
Great to see Belle Isle. Keep up the good work. I'm really frustrated with Slog3. Gonna give this a try. Thanks. BTW if your ever doing any workshops or need a collaborator let me know
Here's my take on things. There's obviously no right or wrong way when it comes to art. We should all be using what works for us and our clients and what makes us want to pick up our cameras and create more art. I used to think of s log3 as what I should be shooting in all the time and I would use other picture profile such as cine1 or hlg as a safety net in case I wasn't confident with what I was seeing out of s log3 on the day of the shoot. I have since gone 180° on this philosophy and realized in most cases it should have been the opposite approach. S log3 is now my fallback plan in case I have a scene with extreme dynamic range that I'm worried about preserving as much as possible. Of course that only makes up maybe 15% of what I shoot. In most cases I use hlg because I like the HDR forward compatibility with the larger bt2020 color space and I find it to be easy to work with. I also like the way the highlights are handled by that profile and how easy to expose it is. If I had something that was one-hundred-percent run-and-gun I will opt to use the cine1 profile with "pro" color space as i find it has a lot of dynamic range in its own right but is already in the rec709 color space so no color space transforms are needed. It is the easiest to grade out of everything i use. I experimented recently with cine1 gamma + s cinetone color space and i liked the experience. It was kind of best of both worlds with better skin tones but less baked in contrast.
Hey bro, I completely agree with you. Slog3 is also my back up method now. Interesting method about the cine1 gamma + s cinetone! I wanna try that now...
@@Ryze-Media yeah, you'll get people that are purists telling you can't mix gamma and color space because the luminance values of the gamma won't be mapped accurately to the color space blah blah blah... scientific benchmarks mean little in real world scenarios. End results are paramount only time I would say not to mix and match gamma and color space would be if you are using gammas or color spaces that require a color space transform in post as the transform might not perform as accurately. But if the gamma and the color space are already meant for rec709 I don't see it being a big issue.
I mostly shoot s log 3. What bothers me with s cinetone is that the dynamic range is all choked up, highlights can clip very easily when using it. Other than that the image quality and color grading is very easy to do after choosing this picture profile.
to be fully honest i prefer using s cinetone but if there’s anything that I need to get the shots for that i can’t do again, i go for s log because i can always fix and adjust anything and put it to my taste, unlike s cinetone if you messed something up it’s done
The exposure meter is pretty bad. I would not rely on it. There's a video here on YT that shows someone shooting a woman in somewhat shadowed area with light coming from a ceiling in the bg. Exposure says 0.0. Then he adds fog to the bg and immediately the exposure meter flashes 2.0 even though the shot is correctly exposed. Way too many variables with the exposure meter. I would trust zebras more. Flase color of course is best but I don't like lugging around me external monitor. I like to keep things as small as possible. Also, I would have loved to see an example of S-Cinetone in actually low light as in talent in front of a camera in the city at night.
you're 100% right, actually there is not perfect way, but all of them are useful, but relying on any one method alone isn't the best idea. Especially when you are going for a specific look
Slog in fact is a sales gimmick.Maybe only for perfectly controlled conditions with raw records.For 99% of the time it is an impractical profile making any benefits insignificant compared to cine4 or s-cinetone.
P.S S-LOG3 ANXIETY IS REAL! Especially as a solo shooter, running the business, editing - just another thing to think about!
I shoot slog3 professionally every day, honestly apart from agencies requesting slog, I find S Cinetone to be just as good.
Good ish homie! Your point on short form content + timing was a big wake up call for me as I've been investing so much time into trying to learn Slog3 Color Grading and it's like "why am I really doing this?". Thanks again!
I’m not a pro, but have been shooting is Slog-3 and it’s always a struggle in post. I switched to S-Cinetone for the first time today and the images are great! Right out of the camera they are great. I’m a convert to S-Cinetone! Love it!
Haha thats how I felt, #Scinetonegangg🔥
Totally agree. I just got my a6700 and tried editing Slog3 and it’s so time consuming trying to get the image to look the way I want. I’m switching to S-Cinetone
So nice Sony gave us consumer tier A6700 peasants S-cinetone
TOTALLY! Looks just as good as S-Log 3 without all the hassle and wasted time!!
What are your settings for the S- CINETONE THOUGH, thought you were gonna show on the camera how you set it up.. perhaps in another video? Sticking to S- CINETONE on my Sony ZV E10. YIPPEE..
yess Ill do it in the next few days! I got you
So spot on!!!! Slog 3 freaks me out. I love scinetone. Thanks
Great video. Very helpful for us run and gun shooters.
Thanks!
Yes I shoot 9O% s-cinetone .. I’m happy you made this video, I think I will also showcase how dope S-Cinetone can be in a TH-cam video … salute
eyy letsget itt😌😌
Is there a LUT converter for S-Cinetone like there is with S-log 3?
I was looking for information on Sony Picture Profiles and found your comments insightful and honest. Thanks for sharing!
If I have the turnaround time, I prefer S-log 3 and use a good LUT (currently Phantom LUTs are my fav) BUT I recently had a shoot where I had a short turnaround window and used S-Cinetone and I was floored with how good the footage looked right out of the camera! It's really a great look. It's important to note the base ISOs for S-Cinetone on the FX3 are 100 and 2000. So try to stick with one of those ISOs. Night streetlight lit shots with S-Cinetone and ISO 2000 @F1.4, looks very good.
I'm in the same boat. S-Cinetone is great for short turnaround stuff. If I have time I still prefer S-Log.
Great point! I actually really agree, the turn around time does matter
hey, I think the metering number depends on what type metering you use ?
can you share how to expose properly while using s-cintone ?
Does using S-cinetone give the same kind of result for a7iv and fx6 (or fx30)? How different would they be in terms of look?
I've struggled with Slog3 and converting to S-Cinetone since it was included in the cameras a while ago, but every so often, I run across videos like this that motivate me to give it another shot. So thank you...I'll give it another shot. :) Great video!
Thank You!!
Shot in S Log 3 since the a7iii… recently started using s-cinetone hard to imagine ever going back. Workflow is so quick. 85% of my work is in s-cine now.
Should I be using s-cinetone to livestream on fx3? Currently I just disable PP and use creative look.
Thanks bro, I'm going back to S-Cinetone after a load of work using S-LOG3. I just keep getting mixed results, especially low-light as you say - despite using zebras and exposure meters.
Since I also own the A7IV and like to shoot in S-Cinetone more, how do you work with S-Cinetone in (extreme) lowlight (ISO, your experience with noise etc.)
Ima do a video about this soon!
So what is the max ISO can I use with S-Cinetone without noticing noise ? Thank you
12,800
@@1sametakman Oh, wow, that high ? Somebody told me 125 and 400.
Different cameras have different base iso, 125 and 400 sounds like the fx30@@elmono3939
for weddings, do you use autofocus lenses? I feel like it'd be easier but I have Cine lenses but manual focus seems like way to much work for that line of work lol
so for weddings, I 100% use auto focus. unless Im trying to do a specific shot. Its way easier and most of the time you dont really want to spend time locking in focus cause these small moments happen so fast. Hope this helps!
On my a74 I noticed iso 640 to 800 using the phantom luts in low light gives me the cleanest image in slog 3. Even though 3200 is the 2nd native iso, I’ve learned to stay away from it in low light if I have a lot of shadows in my image.
solid approach!
what people dont seem to do is how was this recorded? was it 4k 24fps? Or somefootage was 60fps. Was this in auto or manual?
Great video and such a time saver! What gear did you use to film your talking head parts? I love the look!
Slog3 for the DR and higher base ISO. You can shoot slog3 and back in a LUT for fast turnaround. Slog3 does not require extra 1.5 stop exposure. Just add the exposure LUT in the external monitor and use false colors to absolutely know exposure.
Thank you for the great advise! Which mode are you using on your Sony cam to have good settings right out the camera?
I appreciate your take on this. I Just got an FX30 and I've been shooting in s-cinetone. It's awesome. Such a good looking image, and so simple to use.
Dude the fx30 is a beast. I almost got it at some point. good choice!
With the FX30 when shooting in s-cinetone is there a dual ISO setting to get the best image.
@@jasvindersehmbi5253 I stay at 100 or 400 from what Ive heard! try it out. But I think that should suffice
@@Ryze-Media Thank you for the information I'll try shooting at those ISO settings.
I use to shoot in S-Cinetone. However the I wasn’t happy with the flexibility if you mess white balance.
The Dynamic range is far superior in S-Log3.
After getting comfortable with Log, it’s hard to go back to Cinetone.
Good to note!
Why on the earth slog3 should give more flexibility on white balance? 🥴
People just don't understand how colours are encoded.
Slog3 gives you more dynamic range, but you'll pay it on room for pushing colors.
Cant you simply lower the saturation in camera and increase it in post? Then the colors are never oversaturated and can be corrected, I guess.
I may have to start trying S-Cinetone. I just bought a Sony A7siii as a Blackmagic Pocket 6k user. On my Pocket 6K, I'm able to trust the image I'm getting in camera holds up on post. But in S-Log 3 with Sony, overexposing by +2 stos in camera is so counterintuitive. And, like you implied, if you don't overexpose enough, you'll get nasty noise artifacts in skin tones. This forces me to do entire shoots on 12,800 ISO with an ND filter, which probably has its own impact on the image.
A couple questions: have you ever tried the -2 stops Phantom Luts with S-log 3 to any success? And with S-Cinetone, how much flexibility do you have with color grading?
Grats on your switch ok. so as far as the phantom luts go, they are GREAT. I love them. so yes to that. As far as color grading goes using s cinetone… Id say its not as flexible as slog3, however, you’ll definitely be able to pull a “look out of it” It’ll take a bit before the image starts to fall apart. Hope this helps.
@@Ryze-Media Thank you for the insight!
Great vid, thanks for making us some content!
Thanks for watch bro!🙏🏽🙏🏽
What about iso? Does it have the dual base iso for pp11?
Thanks. I'm a newbie who was starting to feel I needed to learn how to use S-Log3 properly. But having reviewed many pros/cons for both, I have decided that I need to get up and running comfortably with S-Cinetone, rather than 'trying to run before I can walk'.
I have an FX3 and an A7iv. Former a new purchase - prob driven by all the hype and claimed low light capability. Base dual ISO of 800/12,800 sounds fantastic, but often as not a heavy ND is required. The dual base ISO in S-Cinetone is circa 3 stops lower at 100/2000 - so less ND is required and although less dynamic range (slightly) noise in the shadows is a lot better. So my take conceptually is that S-Log3 is theoretically the better profile for max dynamic range, but it comes with a heavy on-cost in terms of post colour grading work (not great given my current inexperience editing within DaVinci and may yet look worse until my grading skills are 'up to snuff'. I'm now in the keep it simple approach and will slowly start experimenting to see just when and where S-Log makes real world sense.
Am I being short sighted? Should I just knuckle down and get with the heavy tech grading prog to get max benefit from an improved DR?
how is it going for you? also as far as i know a7iv with slog3 double iso values are 800-3200
What do you use for editing?
CapCut
Final Cuttt
@@Ryze-Mediahave you made a video on S Cientone settings
Hey everyone, I just got my first camera a zve1 I’m super green with videography and photography and will be this s-cinetone setting … this s-log thing is intimidating. What picture profile and setting
Totally feel the same. With Run & Gun events i dont have the time to expose for slog. So i go with sCinetone. Glad i am not the only one. Keep your work up. Definetly getting a follow from me. Cheers 🍻
Well said on the context
Great to see Belle Isle. Keep up the good work. I'm really frustrated with Slog3. Gonna give this a try. Thanks. BTW if your ever doing any workshops or need a collaborator let me know
Slog 3 is great for dynamic range imo the colour roll offs are just better imo just expose properly and the image quality with right lut is 💯
Here's my take on things. There's obviously no right or wrong way when it comes to art. We should all be using what works for us and our clients and what makes us want to pick up our cameras and create more art.
I used to think of s log3 as what I should be shooting in all the time and I would use other picture profile such as cine1 or hlg as a safety net in case I wasn't confident with what I was seeing out of s log3 on the day of the shoot. I have since gone 180° on this philosophy and realized in most cases it should have been the opposite approach. S log3 is now my fallback plan in case I have a scene with extreme dynamic range that I'm worried about preserving as much as possible. Of course that only makes up maybe 15% of what I shoot. In most cases I use hlg because I like the HDR forward compatibility with the larger bt2020 color space and I find it to be easy to work with. I also like the way the highlights are handled by that profile and how easy to expose it is. If I had something that was one-hundred-percent run-and-gun I will opt to use the cine1 profile with "pro" color space as i find it has a lot of dynamic range in its own right but is already in the rec709 color space so no color space transforms are needed. It is the easiest to grade out of everything i use. I experimented recently with cine1 gamma + s cinetone color space and i liked the experience. It was kind of best of both worlds with better skin tones but less baked in contrast.
Hey bro, I completely agree with you. Slog3 is also my back up method now. Interesting method about the cine1 gamma + s cinetone! I wanna try that now...
@@Ryze-Media yeah, you'll get people that are purists telling you can't mix gamma and color space because the luminance values of the gamma won't be mapped accurately to the color space blah blah blah... scientific benchmarks mean little in real world scenarios. End results are paramount only time I would say not to mix and match gamma and color space would be if you are using gammas or color spaces that require a color space transform in post as the transform might not perform as accurately. But if the gamma and the color space are already meant for rec709 I don't see it being a big issue.
Why Can't I find this damn setting on the FX30? :') I only get Slog3 options, can't change or find picture profile settings for the life of me...
Turn off log shooting and switch on picture profile 11, make sure both gamma and colour mode say cinetone
Ay this was shot on Belle Isle, shout out to a Detroi player. Solid video appreciate the insight
haha lets goo!!!
yes I live in and love Detroit🔥🔥 Thanks bro
I mostly shoot s log 3. What bothers me with s cinetone is that the dynamic range is all choked up, highlights can clip very easily when using it. Other than that the image quality and color grading is very easy to do after choosing this picture profile.
Hi! I'm also a fan of K.I.S.S. would you share your settings for shooting S-Cinetone?
yesirr! Ima make a quick short about it and Ill send it to you ! Thanks bro
to be fully honest i prefer using s cinetone but if there’s anything that I need to get the shots for that i can’t do again, i go for s log because i can always fix and adjust anything and put it to my taste, unlike s cinetone if you messed something up it’s done
yesss the Slog 3 has benefits for sure! I'll still use it sometimes.
@@Ryze-Media yep especially for high paying gigs s cinetone ain’t it sometimes, unless they require same or next day delivery
@@blackcatooow yesss what do you shoot??
The exposure meter is pretty bad. I would not rely on it. There's a video here on YT that shows someone shooting a woman in somewhat shadowed area with light coming from a ceiling in the bg. Exposure says 0.0. Then he adds fog to the bg and immediately the exposure meter flashes 2.0 even though the shot is correctly exposed. Way too many variables with the exposure meter. I would trust zebras more. Flase color of course is best but I don't like lugging around me external monitor. I like to keep things as small as possible. Also, I would have loved to see an example of S-Cinetone in actually low light as in talent in front of a camera in the city at night.
you're 100% right, actually there is not perfect way, but all of them are useful, but relying on any one method alone isn't the best idea. Especially when you are going for a specific look
man this helped alot!
Slog in fact is a sales gimmick.Maybe only for perfectly controlled conditions with raw records.For 99% of the time it is an impractical profile making any benefits insignificant compared to cine4 or s-cinetone.
Slog3 is superior, but cinetone is very useful faster turnaround
I don’t know why so many people are against cinetone vs using slogs personally I don’t see too much of a difference.
you know what, i don't care
what people dont seem to do is how was this recorded? was it 4k 24fps? Or somefootage was 60fps. Was this in auto or manual?