SLOG3 vs S-Cinetone - What’s The Difference?
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Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
01:07 - Side By Side Footage
01:41 - What is SLOG3 and S-Cinetone?
02:50 - Dynamic Range
03:40 - Dual Native ISO
05:05 - Sponsor Epidemic Sound
06:55 - Ease of Use
07:50 - Filming My Life
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Great vid explaining and showing the difference. Of all the sony vids i've watched, no one has pointed out the slog/cinetone base ISO differences. Very informative and well explained.
SO EXCITED FOR THIS!! THANK YOU!!! Now I gotta go and change it to S-Cinetone! 😊
I edit in Davinci Resolve and it couldn't be easier to use any log footage. You literally set up the timeline to convert your footage from log to Rec 709. and you can simply save and apply any adjustments to all the clips you drop in. Then you have log footage that is fine with minimal tweaking that barely takes any time at all and if needed you have log footage that can be heavily adjusted. The only thing I noticed in your footage was Profile B was significantly sharper than A and B looked ever so slightly more saturated. Also, SLOG3 on the Alpha 1 iso's are 800 and 4,000 not 640 and 12,800.
Yeah, similar to how Premiere works where you can have an adjustment layer across your entire timeline that's converting SLOG3 to rec 709. But for those quick and dirty edits, it sure is nice to have S-Cinetone right out of camera!
You might say we’re getting spoiled these days
Makes sense
SLOG3 for Movies - high-budget films or projects that you want high Dynamic Range
S-Cinetone for quick work flow. Shoot and upload
Thanks for this brilliant explanation, I learnt a lot.
This video for sure add value to people who switch over. I came from nikon to Sony due to creating more wedding videos now. Thanks for share the difference and when to use which one.
Great video man!
Excellent informative video.
For filming your life, do you use a 24p or 30p frame rate? And do you keep the record setting at 4:2:2 10bit - as you would for S-Log - or do you go with a lower bitrate, such as 100M 4:2:0 8bit or 60M 4:2:0 8bit, which would be more suitable for dumping straight into Apple Photos?
For the run and gun usage, especially for youtube, s cine-tone is perfectly fine. Nice to have slog3 for low light though.
Thanks for this Video. I also shoot in SLOG3 and edit in DR, and can see the benefits for the future if/when I become more proficient at Color Grading/Editing etc to future proof myself, however, you did make a really great point here. For some impromptu Videos around the Family, out in the Garden etc, S-Cinetone would do the job and avoid editing the footage, so I did a few Videos yesterday and I have to say they were pretty awesome! for my simple needs, this was a great shout, so thanks! I will continue to shoot everything else in SLOG3, but for this kind of purpose which I would usually grab my iPhone for, it's way way better ! thanks man
On the zve1 I think there is a way to embed a custom lut while shooting slog3 so it saves to your footage already graded.
Really good piece. I feel that s cinetone is really underused. I'd say roughly 70% of my work is shot in this as theres a fast turnaround and s cinetone can also take some work in post to tweak the image. Working in slog is great but to get the best from it you dont just throw a lut in it and walk away. I think you have evaluate what the client needs, what platform its going on and take it from there and potentially save yourself a ton of work in post.
What correction lut do you use?
As always awesome work!
ayo any chance you can share what shades you're wearing?? oh, and I appreciate the analysis, dude. always entertaining and informative
Thanks for the vid David. I'm gonna finally bite the bullet and start learning how to shoot and edit S-Log 3. I shoot a lot of real estate and tried a bunch of colour profiles, Cine 4 and S cinetone to try and make my work flow in post quicker easier, but with the need for a high dynamic range when shooting interiors I think I'm finally gonna have to up my game. Looking forward to shooting with the Sony ZV E1 soon!
This is very timely I’ve been learning a lot about this lately. One gotcha I’ve read about is for something like the ZVE-10 that only has 8 bit color depth you’re best to avoid the SLOG because it doesn’t have enough depth depth to support the range of slog so it can end up looking bad. Do I have that right? I’m still learning about this stuff.
Thanks for the video! Love your channel.
I experimented with this the other day, to see the difference between 8bit and 10bit slog3 footage. would say you won't really see much difference unless you start doing some severe color grading. I took three shots of a very bright sky and the ground with some darker shadows, one in 8bit slog3, one in 10bit slog3 and one in rec709 for comparison. for the rec709, i set it to have normal exposure of the ground. in this shot, the ground looks nice, but the sky is basically just white. now i wanted to bring the exposure of the sky down to show its blueness and the clouds. so i selected the sky parts with a rough qualifier mask and then reduced gain/gamma and adjusted some hue vs sat and hue vs luma curves to bring the colors of the sky back. with 10bit slog3 i eventually ended up with a shot with beautiful ground colors and a beautiful blue sky and visible white clouds. in the 8bit slog3, copying over the same grading, i could see severe, very apparent banding in the sky. way past "banding", it was just completely destroyed. looking as if in a heavily compressed gif. anybody, even my mom, could have said that it looked really bad.
but this was an extreme case, recovering colors and details from severely overexposed areas. i dont want to say too much because i am still just an amateur and learning, but it seems to me that i think while you can do "normal" color grading in 8bit slog3 without noticeable problems, with "normal" color grading you wont get much further than the look you get from simply filming in rec709 or s-cinetone in the fist place anyway, so maybe not that much point shooting in slog3.
@@Bcutter this is great info thanks!
Great video. In Davinci, what should I configure when applying CST (or color management) for s-cinetone?
When you bring your family videos directly from the camera in to Apple Photos, do you still reduce the bit rate in any way? If so, what is the format that you are using?
Some of the cameras you mentioned can shoot with LUTs baked in meaning no post processing needed.
i Learn Few thing Thanks for that
Would like to see the low light comparison
I thought the native ISO for sony a7iv was 800 and 3200
you're right. That's when you shoot on slog 3 and use PP8 which is the best profile for Slog 3 on Sony cameras. When I use PP8 the base iso is 800
Id be really intrigued with how the dual-base iso works, and whether ISO4000 (1 stop over base) in s-cinetone, looks cleaner than 25,600 (1 stop over base) in Slog3 , as they're both only 1 stop above their 2nd native ISO. In theory they should/could be the same, but also could be different.
I Appreciate the video, and yes, or was helpful. You can see the difference
Solid to see that the difference is still coming through on TH-cam!
I’m wondering with the 14 stops for SLOG3 and the 11 with SCinetone, are there only 14 stops while the footage is ungraded/flat? And therefore, after grading you end up with the similar 11stops that you have with SCinetone? In other words, is SCinetone simply Sony’s “$100k” grade of SLOG3?
Thanks 🤙
I find the Slog noisier in low light than S Cinetone. Struggled to get Slog looking great. Since I commented below and you replied, I’ve got a ZVE1. I’ve mainly stuck to S Cinetone as setting up the exposure correctly on S Log is a major pain for run and gun type shooting.
Great Video
I've been having issues with both exposure and white balance shooting S-Log3. It's probably operator error, but I'm going to try S-Cinetone, because it's been a pain in the butt trying to fix those issues in post, especially white balance. I don't think it's worth the work for the few views my videos get, lol.
HI David, nice video!! Which PP /settings in PP you used for film @ 7:17 - 7:21 , iso, shutter .....? Can you please share luts for this clip @ 7:17 - 7:21 /lut for color correction and lut for this color grading ? Thanks in advance! //Dennis
When j shoot in s cinetone the camera doesn’t allow me to select iso 100. Weird. I’m using the s7r5. Any idea why?
Good but you dont speak about the main thing. How to use both with the good settings & who is the better for that
Thats the point of having a family! Make some noise!
Does the FX30 have a dual native iso?
Was very compelled to move over to Cinetone for my TH-cam content (mainly talking head). However, I often mix talking head studio setting with outdoor footage. For me slog3 is no more time intensive than cinetone as daVinci Resolve's conversion is pretty accurate. So to allow mixing my footage more seamlessly slog3 is the clear winner. (I do admit that I liked the skin tones in cinetone out of the box better)
Is it dual native iso or dual gain iso with these cams? I believe they are dual gain which is a different process in the light to sensor chain of command. But I could be wrong! Thanks
Cinetone requires are more light than SLOG3. Switching my Sony Alpha 1 (sony a1) from slog3 to Cinetone (in the picture profile menus), Monitor+ shows two completely different native ISOs. What is also notable is how much lower the ISOs are in Cinetone. So one disadvantage of Cinetone is that it requires much more light. The dual gain ISOs in Cinetone are 125 and 640. And the dual gain ISOs in SLOG3 are 800 and 4000.
Отличная работа!
What about picture profile off. Does it have dual iso aswell?
The knowledge you have in cameras is baffling. Most stuff you talk about I have never heard of. Btw, did not hear the charm bracelets linking…but what a sweet FD gift, better than a tie.
the slog3 footage has better contrast here on my monitor, probably just the grade tough. I find that once you "master" exposure for slog3 it is tough to go back to another profile and as you said with help of a conversion LUT it does not take much effort to grade.
what's the difference then between s-cinetone and standard color profile which all cameras have/had?
Great video. They changed the native ISO’s for the FX3 are 800 and 12,800 in the last update. TBF there’s a lot of confusion out there about this.
Is this also true for the a7siii? Base also 800/ 12800?
Thanks for that! I'm shooting on the A7Siii and thought they were still the same. I wonder why the FX3 changed to 800 when they're the same sensor
@@DavidManningvlog not sure. When I found that chart yesterday, the base ISO’s were all over the place. Weird considering they share the same sensor etc.
Funny enough, I went for an orientation at the store where I bought my FX3 and they weren’t up to date with the new base ISO 😳
Very useful! Thanks so much! As just a very casual video shooter this helps a lot.
Dual native ISO: with S-Cinetone I get bokeh more easily because of ISO 100; while with S-Log3 and mandatory ISO 640 you have to use a variable ND filter. I still only film with S-Log3.
Does native iso change based on the picture profile??
What are the native isos for the A1 when shooting slog 3?
What correction LUT are you using? I’d like to try combining the two, using SLOG3 for low light situations. Would be interesting to know your workflow on that. Thanks for the overview!
I’ve purchased a number of LUTs over the years, but now I use one that I’ve customized on my own. It’s basically Sony’s SLOG3 to Rec 709 correction LUT with some color adjustments that I’ve made. One of my favorite LUT packs though was Phantom LUTs. Those look incredible!
@@DavidManningvlogI feel like SLOG3 is so easy just drop phantom lut on it and done 😂 they look sooo good lol
What is the advantage of using S-Cinetone vs not using anything at all? And, why did you film the wedding videos in 60p rather than 24p?
What are the best settings for s cinetone?
Cool video. For me the most difficult part is outdoor videos. You want something quick to use. You dont have time to check lighting etc. Especially when with a group, they just want to move and dont care so much about you taking a video.
This is great David! S Cinetone is perfect enough for TH-cam. Besides your content is awesome that I'd still watch it even if you shot it from a 2005 potato phone camera 😂
Hahahaa! You rock Rhyan!😂
I bought the A7 4 cus it was the cheapest camera with Cinetone and I did NOT WANT to learn color editing. But everything in cinetone looks so green.
많이 배우고갑니다
Also, on your monitor you see a difference maybe? On my cell phone the image looks exactly the same
Can someone tell me the Sony A1 Native and Dual Native Iso's? At Slog3 pp8 and S-cinetone pp11
what monitor is the one you have in the background?
what if you use a s-log3 with baked in color correction and baked in color grade picture profile on your camera. so you can have the exact same look as if you color correct and grade in post. i use both on a single camera ;-)
…how? Tell me more!
@@DavidManningvlog it works on ZV-E1. When i combine a correction lut with my grading, then make a new lut and import it onto my zv-e1 i can then set PPLUT1-4 to costum picture profiles with baked in LUT. Its looks exactly as if i use s-log3 on flexible ISO with my combined correction+grading LUT. So i assume, the custom PPs use s-log3 as well and on too of that the lut which i choosed.
What about grading S cinetone
If you are color blind s cinetone would work fine right? That is what I'm thinking
I always shoot log on my a7iv and my fuji xh2, then use luts the sony/fuji luts from their websites. Always looks a bit better that way and gives me more room to adjust.
The ISO and noise is not that simple. Because you need to over expose for slog3. If your meter says 0 for your slog3 footage, it is severally underecposed when color correct it. But for scinetone when meter says 0, it is roughly correctly exposed. So if both set ISO 12800, the one with slog3 is a lot darker than the one with scinetone.The scinetone one need only to be around ISO 3200-5000 range to have same exposure as slog3 at 12800. To my eye they just looks equally clean. So slog3 does not really has any benefit of super high second native ISO.
That's an important point.
I switch back and fourth depending what I’m shooing
Fantastic and super helpful video. I am going to try S Cinetone with my workflow.
Also, totally agree with the family stuff. I film my baby in SLOG and it never gets to the export because I just dump it on my NAS 😅
hello! Can I use the music on the 'epidemic sound' site for my TH-cam web drama??
Absolutely! As long as you're subscribed, you can use the music on socials. When you stop your subscription, anything you've posted can stay up as well👍
There was a difference, but it was hardly noticeable! The difference could of just been down to how long you spent trying to match the SLog-3 footage...
I come from photography and these ISOs are killing me. Base 800 and 6400 for example on the A7IV. Lol. Plus I’m trying to keep. My 24 fps footage at 1/50.
S cinetone doesn’t require a rec709 conversion? What you see is what you get?
Exactly! What you see on the back of the camera is exactly what you’re recording!
What about for Xperia 1 V. I don't see a huge difference from video from s cinetone vs regular. Is there an advantage to either over other?
From standard to S-Cinetone is just a certain look that the camera is putting on the footage. S-Cinetone has a less saturated, less contrast look over standard footage
@@DavidManningvlog thanks
Great breakdown…..I think slog3 is easy with just dropping the Phantom luts on it and done lol 😂
Which one would you recommend for photography, not for video?
Slog is a flat profile for video. It doesn’t apply for pictures. Closest thing is shooting RAW
So, if it's not for filming your kids playing in the garden, but for a TH-cam video that you'll need to load into a video editor anyway, then SLOG3 makes sense.
When is the a7Siv coming out, thats what i want to know!
Me too! Hopefully, with the Nikon vs RED lawsuit settled, we might see internal compressed RAW recording🙌
@@DavidManningvlog nice!
@@DavidManningvlog can you do a video about how that might effwct the release of the a7siv and perhaps an a1ii? Because im not exactly sure myself why that plays a part in holding the camera back if uts set up for these options, they can just turn them off in firmware then turn them on, if copyright is the issue...
Thanks man
I hear the ISO is different in the 2 modes?
Yeah, what you mean is that the base ISO and second ISO levels are different. When in S-Cinetone, the lowest ISO you can go to is 100 and in SLOG3, the lowest you can go is 640. Those are called the base ISO numbers. But Sony A7Siii has a Dual Base ISO, so for S-Cinetone, it's 100 and 2,000 and for SLOG3 it's 640 and 12,800. Meaning that you can get a much cleaner image at higher ISO levels (low light) with SLOG3
Has there been a report back to committing S-Cinetone for a month?
Trickery
Nice Carbon Hadean!
Dude, it’s so damn fun! Just got my hands on it the other day!
@@DavidManningvlog i love the A/T wheels, they are so smooth.
At the end of the day, the lesson here is shoot for your correct exposure on your subject. It doesn't matter how much it little dynamic range you have. If you don't expose correctly, it'll make the editor/colorist job that much more difficult to match the sequences together.
Try S-Cinetone with +4 contrast and +2 color phase. Thank me later
Let’s go ahead and just combine all these separate settings into one Ai regulated profile
Hi Dave 🙋🏻♂️
Hi Abhijeet 👋
The difference is a lot more work {and money} That nobody notices unless you watch this viseo
“Compression algorithm”
S cinetone absolutely needs color grading. Unless you’re going for a near monochrome look.
But you get something wrong. The dual ISO doesn´t make a diffrence. It´s the same. Just other numbers. Only diffrence is, like you mentioned, the dynamic range. The 12800 is the 2000 Iso. Im not a expert on this but i have a sony a7s3 and the way you explained it, that slog-3 has an adventage over cinetone in lowlight, and thats not correct. But of course you have more options in post. Thank for your video, helpful anyways!
S-Cinetone is god enough... maybe better! Keep it simple!
Your ISO information can't be accurate. On my FX3 in S-Cinetone I see a Massive noise reduction at 12,800 still. That can't be all internal NR frtom sony.
Yep, check it out online. The FX3 Dual Native ISO in S-Cinetone is 100 and 2000. Odd that you're seeing it clean up at 12,800
@@DavidManningvlog uggh it’s probably just cern jumping me into a different timeline again 😩
Firsttt
Please DISABLE noise reduction. This sounds terrible.
01:34
Brush your tongue.
lol you can literally tell the difference in the thumbnail
Solid eye Nick👍
That's not even the only point of this video. Don't be annoying
is s-cinetone the S-gamut3.Cine/s-log3 vs the S-Gamut3/s-log3 is S-log 3 on the FX3?
I instantly repferred the S-cinetone tbh