It just sucks that with killer you are essentially bottlenecked into running some sort of slowdown in your builds or else you just can’t stand a chance. I don’t want to sweat every game I should be able to have a chance to win even if I decide to run a fun build. It’s like you are punished for legit trying to be different and fun. That’s why chaos shuffle is so liked because even if you get a shit build so will survivors usually and both sides are somewhat in the same boat. There’s just too many factors to consider when you talk about just overall balance in the game
Killer will always be the sweatier role. If they buff killers to not need slowdown to win, then the killers who do bring slowdown will just easily dominate every match. Or, ya know, you could just play as an S tier killer like Nurse or Hillbilly and win no matter what your build you bring
Slowdown is one of the things that remind me of "Slag" from BL2. Tldr, they made Slag so important on BL2 that they balanced around it and therefore, you basically HAD to have it at higher difficulties. So sometimes I wonder what DBD would've been like if they never introduced perks that affect gen speeds.
With MMR I've come to the conclusion that if I don't want to bring more than 1 slowdown, then I'll have to take some L's and let the survivors T-Bag at the exit gates and escape. A price to pay, and maybe if I get better in chase I'll win more despite the handicap.
unfortunately bhvr always nerfs the fun perks nobody asked a nerf for like what happened to machine learning. Already a situational perk had it’s duration decreased by a whole 20% making it not worth the hassle of activating
Survivors are shadow buffed/op. They run so many perk builds that somehow work but they are still often weaker builds. I see so many survivors not even running one slot for anti tunneling and I just see how easier the game gets for the killer because of that. From both sides because I play Killer and Survivor. I know I would lose more games if I would face more survivors with anti tunneling. Items are included in this as well. So, many don't even run a medkit or a toolbox and that would make the game easier as well for the survivors. But I also think this is a good game. In the past around the DS time every survivor would go for a hardtry build and playing Killer was just dumb.
I do hope we get other perks like leverage and gift of pain. It feels good others perks I can reliably use and not feel like throwing. I actually would not be opposed to nerfing slowdown if like you said all the other options didn’t suck. I would only want adjustment of Gen perks on survivor end or toolboxes to equalize that cause I don’t wanna do something like add 10 seconds to gens.
You're actually very right, I had this same thought. My whole problem with Dead by Daylight is a lot of things will entirely ruin a match for you as killer. Even one flashlight save at the start can COMPLETELY take away any and all momentum you had, especially on M1 killers. So you feel obligated to bring things that help maintain consistency, but those get boring and stale. You're right, I DO just want to stand a chance. Realistically, I never actually WANT to 4K, as that's not fun for the other side. But when the alternative is 0 kills and t-bags at the exit gate, I find it hard to want to queue up when the game is simply so heavily tilted on one side or the other. This is to say, I'm excited for the feature that 2v8 is getting where the gens get slower or faster depending on which side is winning. I think that should honestly be basekit for every game of DBD, as it would HELP (not guarantee, you would still need to play decently) ensure that each game is still a somewhat fruitful one.
The problem is for most killers one bad chase ruins your game most of the time unless you have slowdown. Since all a survivor has to do while you're in chase with another survivor is hold a button while on a gen if you have a bad early chase the game already feels over (2-3 gens pop and you might not even have your first down), and slowdown is the only way most of the time to even stand a chance. I feel like nerfing slowdown perks but adding some of it to universal base kit or just giving more methods to disrupt gen progress especially in the early game (Maybe corrupt base kit?) would be a good idea to promote doing shit that isnt just 4 slowdowns, but then you have to worry about the turbo meta killers like nurse that are just inherently in a league of their own and they don't seem keen on reworking even though they make it harder to give help to killers that need it across the board.
Recently I realized that gift of pain was like sloppy for m2 killers + a bit of gen slowdown. I wanted to try builds with agi + gift+ pain res. Now I'm afraid they're going to nerf gift of pain instead of toning down leverage
You make good points - anti-heal that requires 2 whole perk slots is demonstrably weaker than previously, when you could slap on 1 perk or even just an addon and devote the rest of the build to info/gen slowdown. It sucks that the game is balanced around Killers running some slowdown, but what can you do.
Wish this combo was as effective in Japan, where I play and where Self Care is the #1 Survivor meta perk... Not saying it's not effective, but 90% of the Survivors I go against aren't really that affected by it.
Leverage would be bad but Gift of Pain should still be very effective right? The self-heal takes longer, there's more opportunity for you to interrupt them and deplete the heal progress, and if they do self heal they get slower gen repair
I always knew this but never understood. Why does japanese think self care is still good even tho it takes a year to finish? Yeah it makes so no other survivor is busy healing you but is making you stay otside of gens and chases for too long
BHVR needs to rework gen speeds, gen repair perks and toolboxes so killers can actually try and make creative builds without throwing the match because of it. There is no logical reason to allow a gen to pop in 30 seconds if survivors bring the right perks or items while the killer is in the middle of it's first chase.
I’m such a build explorer. Probably from my MTG days. I love just building unique things. So I had found this combo pretty early and do like it a good amount. Nothing hurts more than super fast resets. Survivors that know this are scary, though a lot don’t use it. (You should be). I’ve never stayed with meta builds. I actively dislike pain res cause it’s just boring. I’ll use pop if I’m running oppression Surveillance. Yadda Yadda.
I opened DbD to try grind the event tonight, had a Skull Merchant that was really nice, but my 3 teammates DC'd (she let me do the event and then I asked her to mori me). The next few games people hookiciding. I closed the game. Maybe tomorrow... I'm just tired? Of survivors... and I'm so rusty I don't want to touch killer lol. I want more build variety, maybe by buffing other builds gen slowdown will stop beign so popular... honestly... I hate bringing slowdown perks, it feels more like I need them to prevent the game from ending too fast. I just bring 1 gen perk and if survivors are decent, gens fly lol.
Yeah, killer kit has been shoehorned into a very specific corner because of complaints. Meanwhile, the survivor kit is very diverse and broad now. That's sad. I only see about three or four different builds on survivor because they're all lazy and don't want to play with their actual kit, which is a good thing, because some of the stuff that survivors are not using, he is absolutely busted in the right circumstances. Like survivors have a counter to Gift of pain and leverage, it's called autodidact. In fact, whenever we were going to hyper Nerf medkits, autodidact was the first thing that I was thinking of to counter that. If you don't know what autodidact is, it starts off giving you very low healing on skillcheck, and as you get more skill checks, the amount it heals is exponential. To the point they can heal you 70 ish percent in a single check.
I've got a couple myers builds I use you might enjoy: Predator, noed, blood warden, deadlock with hair bow and J myers memorial with midwich offering. Hex build Hex: face the darkness Hex: haunted ground Hex: retribution Hex: pentimento Vanity mirror / dead rabbit Scratched mirror / boyfriends memo Midwich or lery's offering.
Can you try this one? Addons: J myers memorial and Judith's Journal Perks: Frend´s till the Ende, Game A Foot, Nemesis and Furtive Chase Try to always go for the Obsetion or the Surv with the longest chase time + try to not get into a chase until you got your Tier 3 at 99% so you don´t have hige Chase time on anyone and can pull of a Game A Foot Obsetion swap if needet
I enjoy longer games. And they killed that a long time ago too because people got butthurt and due to power creep (trapper for example) No im not talking about skull merchant. Though her recent changes were awful
Dude considering gift of pain's mangled isn't even a big deal and you can counter leverage with post-unhook healspeed perks and medkits, or just WAIT FOR A BIT, there is literally no reason to complain about leverage and GOP
@sunset4079 Hemorrhage is mediocre at best, and most it does is just force that 'wait for a bit' part. Plus hemorrhage is only ever getting taken advantage of if you go out of your way to interrupt heals, which is basically not doable consistently on most killers without throwing the game
@hess- how is going back to hook throwing most of the time? Of course you have to evaluate how far you are but if you are close enough and you got good mobility which many killers have you barely ever throw since you pressure 2 people one who you can put on death hook and another one
@@sunset4079 That's of course the case ONLY when OTR or instaheals aren't a factor, and better survivors just don't reset under hook if you have leverage or are nearby. It's a status effect that only capitalises on a positioning/decision making mistake
If you want anti heal I do gift of pain deathbound. They can either heal or take the -16% speed, oblivious, and scream, or they can stay injured. Leverage is really good if you wanna keep one guy injured or if you wanna tunnel him, and lets be honest if you're gonna tunnel leverage is not the way to do it
Wait so every different killer has different mmr but not different survivors and I know most people see survivors as just skins but honestly I wish they had different mmr to so the achievements where you escape with there three perks would be a little easier like when a new survivor comes out I don’t want to sweat I just want to test the perks and escape but hey it is what it is
BRO sloppy, old genetic limits, mind breaker and spies. It was my go to im so pissed off they changed genetic limits never seen an exhaust perk never running that now there's no perk that can make the whole team permanently exhaust. I like the only one that had real love for genetic limts it was value in not seeing anything. Legit dc build for high mmr got so much hate but I'm not flicking my cam for a dam dh but now I gotta cuz there's not way to have perma exhaust.
It just sucks that with killer you are essentially bottlenecked into running some sort of slowdown in your builds or else you just can’t stand a chance. I don’t want to sweat every game I should be able to have a chance to win even if I decide to run a fun build. It’s like you are punished for legit trying to be different and fun. That’s why chaos shuffle is so liked because even if you get a shit build so will survivors usually and both sides are somewhat in the same boat. There’s just too many factors to consider when you talk about just overall balance in the game
Killer will always be the sweatier role. If they buff killers to not need slowdown to win, then the killers who do bring slowdown will just easily dominate every match. Or, ya know, you could just play as an S tier killer like Nurse or Hillbilly and win no matter what your build you bring
I agree 💯
I don't care for meta but when it's too necessary it sucks cuz then I can really only bring 1 "fun" perk
Slowdown is one of the things that remind me of "Slag" from BL2.
Tldr, they made Slag so important on BL2 that they balanced around it and therefore, you basically HAD to have it at higher difficulties.
So sometimes I wonder what DBD would've been like if they never introduced perks that affect gen speeds.
With MMR I've come to the conclusion that if I don't want to bring more than 1 slowdown, then I'll have to take some L's and let the survivors T-Bag at the exit gates and escape. A price to pay, and maybe if I get better in chase I'll win more despite the handicap.
unfortunately bhvr always nerfs the fun perks nobody asked a nerf for like what happened to machine learning. Already a situational perk had it’s duration decreased by a whole 20% making it not worth the hassle of activating
Survivors are shadow buffed/op.
They run so many perk builds that somehow work but they are still often weaker builds.
I see so many survivors not even running one slot for anti tunneling and I just see how easier the game gets for the killer because of that. From both sides because I play Killer and Survivor.
I know I would lose more games if I would face more survivors with anti tunneling.
Items are included in this as well. So, many don't even run a medkit or a toolbox and that would make the game easier as well for the survivors.
But I also think this is a good game. In the past around the DS time every survivor would go for a hardtry build and playing Killer was just dumb.
I do hope we get other perks like leverage and gift of pain. It feels good others perks I can reliably use and not feel like throwing.
I actually would not be opposed to nerfing slowdown if like you said all the other options didn’t suck.
I would only want adjustment of Gen perks on survivor end or toolboxes to equalize that cause I don’t wanna do something like add 10 seconds to gens.
You're actually very right, I had this same thought. My whole problem with Dead by Daylight is a lot of things will entirely ruin a match for you as killer. Even one flashlight save at the start can COMPLETELY take away any and all momentum you had, especially on M1 killers.
So you feel obligated to bring things that help maintain consistency, but those get boring and stale.
You're right, I DO just want to stand a chance. Realistically, I never actually WANT to 4K, as that's not fun for the other side. But when the alternative is 0 kills and t-bags at the exit gate, I find it hard to want to queue up when the game is simply so heavily tilted on one side or the other.
This is to say, I'm excited for the feature that 2v8 is getting where the gens get slower or faster depending on which side is winning. I think that should honestly be basekit for every game of DBD, as it would HELP (not guarantee, you would still need to play decently) ensure that each game is still a somewhat fruitful one.
Production quality on this one was top tier lmfao. Happy Halloween. 🖤🕷
The problem is for most killers one bad chase ruins your game most of the time unless you have slowdown. Since all a survivor has to do while you're in chase with another survivor is hold a button while on a gen if you have a bad early chase the game already feels over (2-3 gens pop and you might not even have your first down), and slowdown is the only way most of the time to even stand a chance. I feel like nerfing slowdown perks but adding some of it to universal base kit or just giving more methods to disrupt gen progress especially in the early game (Maybe corrupt base kit?) would be a good idea to promote doing shit that isnt just 4 slowdowns, but then you have to worry about the turbo meta killers like nurse that are just inherently in a league of their own and they don't seem keen on reworking even though they make it harder to give help to killers that need it across the board.
This video is one of those things nobody ever wants to talk about, but I'm glad you did. I couldn't have said it better.
Recently I realized that gift of pain was like sloppy for m2 killers + a bit of gen slowdown. I wanted to try builds with agi + gift+ pain res. Now I'm afraid they're going to nerf gift of pain instead of toning down leverage
You make good points - anti-heal that requires 2 whole perk slots is demonstrably weaker than previously, when you could slap on 1 perk or even just an addon and devote the rest of the build to info/gen slowdown. It sucks that the game is balanced around Killers running some slowdown, but what can you do.
Wish this combo was as effective in Japan, where I play and where Self Care is the #1 Survivor meta perk... Not saying it's not effective, but 90% of the Survivors I go against aren't really that affected by it.
Leverage would be bad but Gift of Pain should still be very effective right? The self-heal takes longer, there's more opportunity for you to interrupt them and deplete the heal progress, and if they do self heal they get slower gen repair
I always knew this but never understood. Why does japanese think self care is still good even tho it takes a year to finish? Yeah it makes so no other survivor is busy healing you but is making you stay otside of gens and chases for too long
@@ErickDarkArtsI think they pair it with Botany, it can be good with that
6:14 Tell that to the stealthy claudettes and Dwight's hiding at the back of the map or in lockers all game 🤣
BHVR needs to rework gen speeds, gen repair perks and toolboxes so killers can actually try and make creative builds without throwing the match because of it. There is no logical reason to allow a gen to pop in 30 seconds if survivors bring the right perks or items while the killer is in the middle of it's first chase.
Devour hope defense is a viable alternative to slowdown builds in my MMRs
As survivor if I really wanna be healed I just wait 30s, but I don't mind staying injured
I’m such a build explorer. Probably from my MTG days. I love just building unique things. So I had found this combo pretty early and do like it a good amount.
Nothing hurts more than super fast resets. Survivors that know this are scary, though a lot don’t use it. (You should be).
I’ve never stayed with meta builds. I actively dislike pain res cause it’s just boring. I’ll use pop if I’m running oppression Surveillance. Yadda Yadda.
I been running that perk combo with sloppy butcher and Claurophobia
I opened DbD to try grind the event tonight, had a Skull Merchant that was really nice, but my 3 teammates DC'd (she let me do the event and then I asked her to mori me). The next few games people hookiciding.
I closed the game. Maybe tomorrow... I'm just tired? Of survivors... and I'm so rusty I don't want to touch killer lol.
I want more build variety, maybe by buffing other builds gen slowdown will stop beign so popular... honestly... I hate bringing slowdown perks, it feels more like I need them to prevent the game from ending too fast. I just bring 1 gen perk and if survivors are decent, gens fly lol.
Ahoy matey, great video
Another inspired intro!
I don't think killer powers should affect perks. I want a plaything Legion. 🔪
+ coulrophobia + Distressing
For extra pain use unnerving presence instead of the scourge hook perk
Yeah, killer kit has been shoehorned into a very specific corner because of complaints. Meanwhile, the survivor kit is very diverse and broad now. That's sad. I only see about three or four different builds on survivor because they're all lazy and don't want to play with their actual kit, which is a good thing, because some of the stuff that survivors are not using, he is absolutely busted in the right circumstances. Like survivors have a counter to Gift of pain and leverage, it's called autodidact.
In fact, whenever we were going to hyper Nerf medkits, autodidact was the first thing that I was thinking of to counter that.
If you don't know what autodidact is, it starts off giving you very low healing on skillcheck, and as you get more skill checks, the amount it heals is exponential. To the point they can heal you 70 ish percent in a single check.
That paired with knight's broken addon is disgusting.
I've got a couple myers builds I use you might enjoy:
Predator, noed, blood warden, deadlock with hair bow and J myers memorial with midwich offering.
Hex build
Hex: face the darkness
Hex: haunted ground
Hex: retribution
Hex: pentimento
Vanity mirror / dead rabbit
Scratched mirror / boyfriends memo
Midwich or lery's offering.
Can you try this one?
Addons: J myers memorial and Judith's Journal
Perks: Frend´s till the Ende, Game A Foot, Nemesis and Furtive Chase
Try to always go for the Obsetion or the Surv with the longest chase time + try to not get into a chase until you got your Tier 3 at 99% so you don´t have hige Chase time on anyone and can pull of a Game A Foot Obsetion swap if needet
I enjoy longer games. And they killed that a long time ago too because people got butthurt and due to power creep (trapper for example)
No im not talking about skull merchant. Though her recent changes were awful
We need a Pirate Bran outfit! ❤
Dude considering gift of pain's mangled isn't even a big deal and you can counter leverage with post-unhook healspeed perks and medkits, or just WAIT FOR A BIT, there is literally no reason to complain about leverage and GOP
Hess until He finds out about hemorrhage
@sunset4079 Hemorrhage is mediocre at best, and most it does is just force that 'wait for a bit' part. Plus hemorrhage is only ever getting taken advantage of if you go out of your way to interrupt heals, which is basically not doable consistently on most killers without throwing the game
@hess- how is going back to hook throwing most of the time? Of course you have to evaluate how far you are but if you are close enough and you got good mobility which many killers have you barely ever throw since you pressure 2 people one who you can put on death hook and another one
@@sunset4079 That's of course the case ONLY when OTR or instaheals aren't a factor, and better survivors just don't reset under hook if you have leverage or are nearby. It's a status effect that only capitalises on a positioning/decision making mistake
Laughs in For the People.
Literally, just run resurgence that's all you need
Doesn’t sloppy butcher make resurgence useless?
Nah, vault build go Brrrrrt
If you want anti heal I do gift of pain deathbound. They can either heal or take the -16% speed, oblivious, and scream, or they can stay injured. Leverage is really good if you wanna keep one guy injured or if you wanna tunnel him, and lets be honest if you're gonna tunnel leverage is not the way to do it
Pirate lol
I thought you were MoistCr1tikal for a sec 😂
Wait so every different killer has different mmr but not different survivors and I know most people see survivors as just skins but honestly I wish they had different mmr to so the achievements where you escape with there three perks would be a little easier like when a new survivor comes out I don’t want to sweat I just want to test the perks and escape but hey it is what it is
There is a base killer mmr, but it is adjusted by a modifier for the different killers you play.
I hate Gift of Pain I’d rather be pain resed 700 times than red barred.
BRO sloppy, old genetic limits, mind breaker and spies. It was my go to im so pissed off they changed genetic limits never seen an exhaust perk never running that now there's no perk that can make the whole team permanently exhaust. I like the only one that had real love for genetic limts it was value in not seeing anything. Legit dc build for high mmr got so much hate but I'm not flicking my cam for a dam dh but now I gotta cuz there's not way to have perma exhaust.