@@themrheadacheQ1 Yes they change it right at the release of Xeno because they said that people may end up thinking that while in "runner" mode, the Xenomorph will run faster or gate a haste effect and then complain because their character don't run faster while in "runner"mode.
The issue I have with Xeno isn't even well placed turrets, it's the fact they alert Survivors if you're near. No matter what perk you're running, they WILL notify the Survivors how close you are to them. Why did BHVR think this was a good idea just cause the movies had that? The Xeno can't climb on walls here so it is a huge disadvantage if you want to be stealthy.
The real reason they changed the name from "Runner Mode" to "Crawler Mode" was because people were under the mistaken impression that it increased their move speed.
I use ovomorph egg on my builds because it sometimes gives me hits where they wouldn't be possible without it. More than once I hooked a survivor, saw another one with peripheral vision and went straight for them, only for ovomorph to give my power back at the exact time that they vaulted a window or dropped a pallet. I think that the real value it has is not for when you lose yourpower due to turrets (although it may help with that), but when you lose your powerdue to grabbing someone, especially for retaliation against flashlight/pallet saves, be they succesful or not, or people that hover around hooks.
Cereal Rations is supperior add-on to headset in every way. It just gives you free info of survivor on top of turret placement. Self-destruct bolt is definietly on the stronger side of add-ons. I'm pretty sure they changed runner mode, because everyone thought You was faster in it.
Hi MrHeadache! Just want you to know that you make wonderful Xeno vids! Also, there was a Xeno guide by SmitaFrita that was heavily inspired by your videos (that's how I found you)
I would definitely say xeno is low to mid A atleast for normal matches. in Comp play xeno i would say is Low B and it really feels like thats what Otz was basing most of his tier list on was "how would a Comp player think and play with/against a killer" instead of "how would 90% of the playerbase play with/against a killer"
I really like Otz and he is not wrong that Xeno suffers against survivors that know how to utilize turrets effectively. But the percentage of survivors that know how to utilize turrets effectively is less than 10% in my experience and that is being generous. Xeno just does not feel like a low B-tier killer in the vast majority of matches that I play. Yeah, the add-ons aren't great but plenty of killers have shitty add-ons and they are ranked much higher on his list despite having a much weaker base-kit than Xeno. It doesn't help Otz's case that in the example match he used to make his point he was going against above average survivors and he made mistakes CONSTANTLY throughout the match. He had an extremely slow start and he was still making bad reads late into the match... yet he still got a 3K. That doesn't exactly scream low B-tier to me. I do think Xeno should be reworked but not because they are weak. I just think the turrets work against the killer thematically and they could have done something much more in line with the franchise. Doing something with face huggers, motion trackers, and stealth would feel so much more like you're playing as a Xenomorph. Someone on reddit posted about having facehuggers coming out of Xeno's tunnels and acting sort of like Nemesis' zombies which I think would be great. Then add motion trackers instead of turrets that require the survivor to walk to use and they can't be used on gens. They pick up the facehuggers as well as the Xeno. Then allow the Xeno to enter and exit crawler mode freely, make it more about stealth than anything, and balance his kit around that. That way, BHVR doesn't have to worry about balancing the killer around counter-play that is too strong in the right hands and useless for most of the playerbase.
before I finish watching, I don't think making unrelenting something that xeno has to use would work. really I think being able to see turrets within 24 meters could be nice
hi for future I think you should lower the background volume while speaking, sometimes its like you and otz are fighting for the mic love ur content still :3
I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the otz video as well and assuming since he got a 3k against those survivors, it's going against his point that good survivors are much stronger against xeno, but those suvivors weren't actually that good, they weren't running full meta builds, they weren't amazing at looping and they didn't seem coordinated enough to be a 3 or 4 man swyf. Even under those conditions, all they needed was good turret placements and a bit of gen efficiency to make him fight for a 3k. Now imagine a match against a full swyf on a map like eyrie of crows or badham preschool, with good turret placement, and the results are gonna be very different. Sure that's not gonna happen all that often, the average survivor isn't that good, but if the tier list was indicative of the average match almost every killer would be high tier, last time behaviour posted their statistics freddy had the highest kill rate despite being one of the weakest killers in the game. It makes sense to rank killers based on their maximum potential, and it's true that a lot of the counterplay against xeno, when used effectively, takes away the killer's agency, like with double turrets.
Hey there, sorry if a bit off-topic. Is tail-cancelling still a thing? And is/was it delayed enough to act as dead hard bait? I'd swear I heard somewhere it was a thing but I can't for the life of me remeber...
I saw him place Xeno below Nemmy and that just seemed odd to me. Sure Nemmy got buffed but Xeno essentially gets the benefits of T3 near immediately upon entering a tunnel. His tail is harder to "nem tech" which I love. You can't just duck behind a knee high object with Xeno if you want to avoid the tail. Also map pressure is better than Nemmy all around. I still think he is no higher than B tier though thanks mainly to the double turret strat, and the add ons being a bit jank, but below Nemmy heck no.
Nemmy's tentacle whip has more range than the tail attack in tier 1 and 2, in tier 3 it has significantly further range, it has a shorter cooldown and suffers less of a movement speed penalty during cooldown, it doesn't cancel upon hitting collision and the hit box naturally travels downwards, which means that by strafing you can hit over most obstacles as long as you start the attack over the obstacle, it can shred through god pallets where xeno has to waste time dealing with them like any other killer, and nemmy can never have his power removed and doesn't have to waste time breaking turrets and giving survivors free distance. The only two ways that the tail attack is superior to the tentacle whip is the free zoning and lack of need to charge the attack before using it, which rarely impacts nemmy that much outside of a few tighter loops, and the need to infect before injuring, which is basically a non issue if you bring licker tongue, which everyone does nowadays. The tentacle whip is stronger than the tail attack as a power by far, which means the only area xeno beats out nemmy is in mobility and information with the tunnels, granted that does make a big difference, but the two are still very comparable in power, and nemmy may even edge out xeno purely on the chase side
I agree with Otz. The turrets themselves put Alien in B-tier meaning most of the time you are chasing as an M1 killer or you take the time to destroy turrets and give them time to hold W. I found it weird also that Otz didn't mention the chest bug where chest have higher priority than certain killer props meaning that a chest can spawn next to gen where a tunnel should spawn.
Otz is definitely more correct in placement. The problem with Xenomorph is that for every pro he also has such heavy cons as well. One of the reasons you basically treat the turret add-ons as mandatory is because the turrets are so oppressive when placed well enough. Even if you do double turret add-ons, it won't make a difference against double turrets. When you're not in your power, there is nothing that separates you from someone like Trapper. No killer should feel that certain add-ons are mandatory and it goes to show how oppressive the turrets are. He could also benefit from some quality of life improvements. Namely, when using the tunnels, it would be nice if the control stations had a green arrow or something pointing out from the entrance. Looking up from the tunnels, they look like a big blob of alien crap and it's incredibly difficult to discern where I will be facing when I come out. Having to learn a bunch of maps and objects to know that the Xeno's tail will hit the air molecule above a table or something (invisible walls) that you think aren't there, thus stopping your attack. Then you face an incredibly punishing movement speed slow and cooldown because of poor/lazy map design. Not being able to use an entire game mechanic (Stealth) because of his counterplay (turrets) is wild to me, especially since him being stealthy and scary is one of his primary attributes. I think a lot of these things are why people go: "Why play Xenomorph when I can play someone who doesn't have to deal with such strong counterplay?". I like Xenomorph because I think he's really cool, but I also acknowledge that he's packed full of weaknesses and his add-on choices feels more like an illusion of choice because of inadequate character design.
I don't like killer tier list since the list revolves around the killer's loadout. I understand that dbd is a loadout based game, but I think that if it's a killer tier list it should be barebones killer with as little influence from variables as possible. Using skill based match making in a loadout based game.
Pretty much all the points he said are the same points i made when I said. Xeno is weak and hes one of the few killers that has to yo contend with an extra mechanic that is putely megative and compeletely out of your control
>Let me show you a clip of actually smart survivors that know how to counterplay. >Gets flamed every 2 minutes, sometimes by 2 turrets >Still destroys the survivors on a survivor biased map. Yeah I think Xeno is pretty strong
Otz did not say that Xeno isn't strong. He simply stated that Xeno isn't AS strong as many believe him to be. And by showing this match Otz wasn't trying to prove to everyone that Xeno is weak, he showed that Xeno is hard and against good survivors it'll be very difficult. Otz barely got his 3k, now imagine that Lara would've been a good looper and it was someone else playing Xeno. Average player with less game knowledge than Otz most likely would've got 2k at best (wich is fine considering map, build, etc.), but not that good afterall (entire point of the video).
@nuketea4395 Xeno is op because the only way to deny his power is incredibly incosequential and puts xeno on its feet for, at best, 10-20 seconds, while the twins, for example, after missing a single leap, become an m1 killer for 30-40 seconds. He has level traversal and a super strong anti loop. The "if x was doing y better" argunent is invalid. If everyone was good and knew effective counterplay, any killer would have stood no chance. Xeno exploits the fundamental flaw of soloq dbd - the lack of teamplay and communication, two things that are crucial against this killer.
Why should the xenomorph player be able to react to the double turrets?? It's already crazy enough that you don't get taken out of your power by one of them unless you're just bad at the game and don't know to destroy it
Because it lacks counterplay. I'm not saying "they should just be able to deal with both easy", don't believe I ever state that. But what Otz is pointing out, correctly I might add, is that 2 well placed turrets lack counterplay, so a high skill ceiling solution to be able to deal with them (at a cost) would be appreciated. The game is not as black and white as people seem to believe it is, and trying to narrow that scope always leads to worse solutions.
I believe they changed the name from runner mode because it was confusing for people that didn’t know the reference
Oh did they? I would love to see that. Was it in a forum post or?
@@themrheadacheQ1I don’t remember, it’s been ages, maybe just speculation
Yea it used to be called runner mode but then changed it to crawler mode
@@themrheadacheQ1 I think it was in the release patch notes, it changed after the ptb
@@themrheadacheQ1 Yes they change it right at the release of Xeno because they said that people may end up thinking that while in "runner" mode, the Xenomorph will run faster or gate a haste effect and then complain because their character don't run faster while in "runner"mode.
The issue I have with Xeno isn't even well placed turrets, it's the fact they alert Survivors if you're near. No matter what perk you're running, they WILL notify the Survivors how close you are to them. Why did BHVR think this was a good idea just cause the movies had that? The Xeno can't climb on walls here so it is a huge disadvantage if you want to be stealthy.
The real reason they changed the name from "Runner Mode" to "Crawler Mode" was because people were under the mistaken impression that it increased their move speed.
I’m still such a huge fan of being able to toggle crawler mode on and off, and not being able to m1 in crawler!
I made an excellent video on a friend of the channel, Smug's rework for the Xenomorph which include those very things! I'd check it out!
Bran just casually entering match review mode
LOL
I use ovomorph egg on my builds because it sometimes gives me hits where they wouldn't be possible without it. More than once I hooked a survivor, saw another one with peripheral vision and went straight for them, only for ovomorph to give my power back at the exact time that they vaulted a window or dropped a pallet.
I think that the real value it has is not for when you lose yourpower due to turrets (although it may help with that), but when you lose your powerdue to grabbing someone, especially for retaliation against flashlight/pallet saves, be they succesful or not, or people that hover around hooks.
Cereal Rations is supperior add-on to headset in every way. It just gives you free info of survivor on top of turret placement.
Self-destruct bolt is definietly on the stronger side of add-ons.
I'm pretty sure they changed runner mode, because everyone thought You was faster in it.
Oh crap I got my wish more Bran reacts.
LMAO
Hi MrHeadache! Just want you to know that you make wonderful Xeno vids! Also, there was a Xeno guide by SmitaFrita that was heavily inspired by your videos (that's how I found you)
I would definitely say xeno is low to mid A atleast for normal matches. in Comp play xeno i would say is Low B and it really feels like thats what Otz was basing most of his tier list on was "how would a Comp player think and play with/against a killer" instead of "how would 90% of the playerbase play with/against a killer"
I really like Otz and he is not wrong that Xeno suffers against survivors that know how to utilize turrets effectively. But the percentage of survivors that know how to utilize turrets effectively is less than 10% in my experience and that is being generous. Xeno just does not feel like a low B-tier killer in the vast majority of matches that I play. Yeah, the add-ons aren't great but plenty of killers have shitty add-ons and they are ranked much higher on his list despite having a much weaker base-kit than Xeno. It doesn't help Otz's case that in the example match he used to make his point he was going against above average survivors and he made mistakes CONSTANTLY throughout the match. He had an extremely slow start and he was still making bad reads late into the match... yet he still got a 3K. That doesn't exactly scream low B-tier to me.
I do think Xeno should be reworked but not because they are weak. I just think the turrets work against the killer thematically and they could have done something much more in line with the franchise. Doing something with face huggers, motion trackers, and stealth would feel so much more like you're playing as a Xenomorph. Someone on reddit posted about having facehuggers coming out of Xeno's tunnels and acting sort of like Nemesis' zombies which I think would be great. Then add motion trackers instead of turrets that require the survivor to walk to use and they can't be used on gens. They pick up the facehuggers as well as the Xeno. Then allow the Xeno to enter and exit crawler mode freely, make it more about stealth than anything, and balance his kit around that. That way, BHVR doesn't have to worry about balancing the killer around counter-play that is too strong in the right hands and useless for most of the playerbase.
Oh man, back to back I'm so glad to finally be getting notifications!
The Xenomorph
before I finish watching, I don't think making unrelenting something that xeno has to use would work. really I think being able to see turrets within 24 meters could be nice
hi for future I think you should lower the background volume while speaking, sometimes its like you and otz are fighting for the mic
love ur content still :3
I've had the reverse before where the video is too quiet, so I aired on the side of caution. Thanks!
Was hoping for a video about this lol
I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the otz video as well and assuming since he got a 3k against those survivors, it's going against his point that good survivors are much stronger against xeno, but those suvivors weren't actually that good, they weren't running full meta builds, they weren't amazing at looping and they didn't seem coordinated enough to be a 3 or 4 man swyf. Even under those conditions, all they needed was good turret placements and a bit of gen efficiency to make him fight for a 3k. Now imagine a match against a full swyf on a map like eyrie of crows or badham preschool, with good turret placement, and the results are gonna be very different. Sure that's not gonna happen all that often, the average survivor isn't that good, but if the tier list was indicative of the average match almost every killer would be high tier, last time behaviour posted their statistics freddy had the highest kill rate despite being one of the weakest killers in the game. It makes sense to rank killers based on their maximum potential, and it's true that a lot of the counterplay against xeno, when used effectively, takes away the killer's agency, like with double turrets.
Hey there, sorry if a bit off-topic. Is tail-cancelling still a thing? And is/was it delayed enough to act as dead hard bait?
I'd swear I heard somewhere it was a thing but I can't for the life of me remeber...
I saw him place Xeno below Nemmy and that just seemed odd to me. Sure Nemmy got buffed but Xeno essentially gets the benefits of T3 near immediately upon entering a tunnel. His tail is harder to "nem tech" which I love. You can't just duck behind a knee high object with Xeno if you want to avoid the tail. Also map pressure is better than Nemmy all around. I still think he is no higher than B tier though thanks mainly to the double turret strat, and the add ons being a bit jank, but below Nemmy heck no.
Nemmy's tentacle whip has more range than the tail attack in tier 1 and 2, in tier 3 it has significantly further range, it has a shorter cooldown and suffers less of a movement speed penalty during cooldown, it doesn't cancel upon hitting collision and the hit box naturally travels downwards, which means that by strafing you can hit over most obstacles as long as you start the attack over the obstacle, it can shred through god pallets where xeno has to waste time dealing with them like any other killer, and nemmy can never have his power removed and doesn't have to waste time breaking turrets and giving survivors free distance. The only two ways that the tail attack is superior to the tentacle whip is the free zoning and lack of need to charge the attack before using it, which rarely impacts nemmy that much outside of a few tighter loops, and the need to infect before injuring, which is basically a non issue if you bring licker tongue, which everyone does nowadays. The tentacle whip is stronger than the tail attack as a power by far, which means the only area xeno beats out nemmy is in mobility and information with the tunnels, granted that does make a big difference, but the two are still very comparable in power, and nemmy may even edge out xeno purely on the chase side
Wait, did Otz seriously put Pyramid Head above Xeno in his tier list?
Xeno is hard unless your mrheadache 😎
I agree with Otz. The turrets themselves put Alien in B-tier meaning most of the time you are chasing as an M1 killer or you take the time to destroy turrets and give them time to hold W. I found it weird also that Otz didn't mention the chest bug where chest have higher priority than certain killer props meaning that a chest can spawn next to gen where a tunnel should spawn.
Otz is definitely more correct in placement. The problem with Xenomorph is that for every pro he also has such heavy cons as well. One of the reasons you basically treat the turret add-ons as mandatory is because the turrets are so oppressive when placed well enough. Even if you do double turret add-ons, it won't make a difference against double turrets. When you're not in your power, there is nothing that separates you from someone like Trapper.
No killer should feel that certain add-ons are mandatory and it goes to show how oppressive the turrets are. He could also benefit from some quality of life improvements. Namely, when using the tunnels, it would be nice if the control stations had a green arrow or something pointing out from the entrance. Looking up from the tunnels, they look like a big blob of alien crap and it's incredibly difficult to discern where I will be facing when I come out.
Having to learn a bunch of maps and objects to know that the Xeno's tail will hit the air molecule above a table or something (invisible walls) that you think aren't there, thus stopping your attack. Then you face an incredibly punishing movement speed slow and cooldown because of poor/lazy map design.
Not being able to use an entire game mechanic (Stealth) because of his counterplay (turrets) is wild to me, especially since him being stealthy and scary is one of his primary attributes.
I think a lot of these things are why people go: "Why play Xenomorph when I can play someone who doesn't have to deal with such strong counterplay?". I like Xenomorph because I think he's really cool, but I also acknowledge that he's packed full of weaknesses and his add-on choices feels more like an illusion of choice because of inadequate character design.
Its just very logically inconsistent to rank hag better than Xeno, when she performs 10x worse against a coordinated team.
DOUBLE BRAN SPECIAL
Only if B was the highest tier, this guy is nearly as unfair as nurse.
I don't like killer tier list since the list revolves around the killer's loadout. I understand that dbd is a loadout based game, but I think that if it's a killer tier list it should be barebones killer with as little influence from variables as possible.
Using skill based match making in a loadout based game.
Pretty much all the points he said are the same points i made when I said. Xeno is weak and hes one of the few killers that has to yo contend with an extra mechanic that is putely megative and compeletely out of your control
>Let me show you a clip of actually smart survivors that know how to counterplay.
>Gets flamed every 2 minutes, sometimes by 2 turrets
>Still destroys the survivors on a survivor biased map.
Yeah I think Xeno is pretty strong
Otz did not say that Xeno isn't strong. He simply stated that Xeno isn't AS strong as many believe him to be.
And by showing this match Otz wasn't trying to prove to everyone that Xeno is weak, he showed that Xeno is hard and against good survivors it'll be very difficult.
Otz barely got his 3k, now imagine that Lara would've been a good looper and it was someone else playing Xeno. Average player with less game knowledge than Otz most likely would've got 2k at best (wich is fine considering map, build, etc.), but not that good afterall (entire point of the video).
@nuketea4395 Xeno is op because the only way to deny his power is incredibly incosequential and puts xeno on its feet for, at best, 10-20 seconds, while the twins, for example, after missing a single leap, become an m1 killer for 30-40 seconds.
He has level traversal and a super strong anti loop.
The "if x was doing y better" argunent is invalid. If everyone was good and knew effective counterplay, any killer would have stood no chance. Xeno exploits the fundamental flaw of soloq dbd - the lack of teamplay and communication, two things that are crucial against this killer.
DAMN man you jumped on his video so fast. He got a 3k.
Jumped on his video? I don't think I was saying at any point in the video that I thought he was going to lose?
Why should the xenomorph player be able to react to the double turrets?? It's already crazy enough that you don't get taken out of your power by one of them unless you're just bad at the game and don't know to destroy it
Because it lacks counterplay. I'm not saying "they should just be able to deal with both easy", don't believe I ever state that. But what Otz is pointing out, correctly I might add, is that 2 well placed turrets lack counterplay, so a high skill ceiling solution to be able to deal with them (at a cost) would be appreciated. The game is not as black and white as people seem to believe it is, and trying to narrow that scope always leads to worse solutions.
Xeno can't do sht against good turrets
I don't mind turrets, I like to win mindgames while being out of power, they are satysfying cuz survivors underestimate me
Big X… the disrespect
This kind of “reaction” content is lazy and lame.
Don’t watch it then. Problem solved.