Dave, just wanted to sincerely say, thank you. I just did my first track weekend in about 3 seasons, and have learned a TREMENDOUS amount about suspension from your videos and DVDs. I was able to correctly set up my bike, help a friend with theirs, identify a rebound problem with my friends shock, and accurately record all data. This was all verified on track by our local club suspension tuner, and I have you to thank for it. While I still have much to learn, ie reading tires, tire pressure, and becoming overall more knowledgeable about suspension, all of the information you have provide has gotten me leaps and bounds from where I was. I hope that someday I get the chance to thank you in person, and maybe even buy you a beer. Until then, keep doing what you're doing, you are the man!
Thank you for taking all this on board and most importantly, to help others out around you. Hopefully they too see the value in making their bike work for them and have taken time to learn from you and from the information I provide. Congrats on your success, and if a trip to the UK pops up it will be posted on my Facebook page: davemosstuning
Absolutely man. And totally forgot that I also helped another buddy set up his new bike. I was able to explain to him why he need stiffer spring up front and in the back. I'll continue to spread the word, and try to point people in the right direction. I've told tons of riders about you and your videos. Also, I'm over here on the East Coast of the US. Just waiting for you to make it out here, lol.
E.S. Slc Hey bud, sorry for the late reply. I bought my dvd's from Amazon, but you can also purchase them directly from OnTheThrottle.com, and sometimes they pop up on eBay. They are absolutely excellent, have TONS of information.
Mr. Moss, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I’m learning so much from your videos. You’ve already helped me to be more safe and gain more enjoyment out of riding. Thx!
Thank you for the kind words and I am glad to read that you are leveraging the information to improve you and your motorcycle. Please continue sharing the information with your fellow riders to pay it forward and help me with my mission.
Hey Dave , Wow what genius you are , I tried this n believe me i can feel a big difference while leaning on corners ,it gives me more confidence on the corners .Thanks
thank you for getting tools out and getting to work on your bike. Please now pay this experience forward with other riders you know to help them, to help me with my mission of saving a life every day.
Thank you so much for your videos! I recently purchased a 2017 FZ-10, and after watching numerous videos from you, and editor Dave lol, it gave me the confidence to begin working on my suspension settings myself. Hopefully the next time you visit NorCal, i can catch you. Thanks again!
Thanks for all the videos Dave, where should you be in your clicker range for track riding if your springs are set properly to your weight and ability? Should you be around 60-70% out and why? Thanks in advance!!!
Thanks for the kid words! Clicker settings are ideally in the middle third of the total range of adjustment no matter clicks or turns if springs are correct for your weight and ability. As the oil ages you will move toward the maximum/closed settings to control hot/thin oil. You would not leave engine oil in for 20,000 miles.
If a spring is stiffer, would the fork require less compression damping and more rebound damping? Would it be similar in the opposite direction? If the spring is softer, would it require more compression damping and less rebound damping?
Love your videos . Currently tuning my new mt-09-sp. Regarding my KYB forks; It seems to make sense but I haven't specifically heard you specify if front breaking is considered "slow speed compression" ?? And also, my zip tie seems to be stopping at about 3/4" from the bottom of the lower tube but I'm not able to find any data anywhere to tell me where the bottom limit of travel actually stops relative to the bottom of the lower tube? I would presume that If I grab a hand full of front brake with ABS on, that I would want the zip tie to stop about 1/2" above whatever the bottom limit of the travel is? Thank you for any help you can offer.
Brake set up for fork travel used is via preload. Low/slow speed compression sets the speed at which the forks collapse. Fork travel is 130mm from the spec sheet so you can measure bottom out this way: th-cam.com/video/eds3dn1LBkw/w-d-xo.html
What is the advantage/disadvantage of having one adjuster (Comp or rebound) in either fork leg, as opposed to both adjusters in both legs? My 765 Street Triple RS has both rebound and compression adjusters on top of both legs, so I assume there are valves for both, in both legs?
The advantage is that you cannot cause interference by using each adjuster against the other and creating almost a hydraulic lock in the fork. The separation creates balance and precise adjustments in each leg. I much prefer this system as it allows me to get the bike set up quicker.
my bike came with ohlins suspension in it, the guy said it was set for a 250 pound guy, i m 150 so i bought a stock suspension and installed in the bike. my question is can i set the ohlins i have to my weight? its just sitting in the garage, or is it to hard?
You can research the spring rates on the shock as an test to see what is on there and if that equates to his weight you can use a softer spring and try the Ohlins. If the valving was built for the springs, you'll need to revalve and respring. Do you have an Ohlins dealer near you that you can talk to?
I get and understand compression on the front. A good tip it to cable tie the fork and be approx 20mm above the bottom out. I've never known how to set rear compression accurately? any tips for setting the compression for the rear?
If you shock is visible, exactly to same way with a small zip tie. You want to be 5-8mm off the rubber bumper ideally. In some cases, dirty and clean on the shaft is easy to spot. The only downside to a zip tie is losing it in the bottom out bumper and having to pull the shock and remove the spring to get it out of there. For shocks that you cannot see, a mirror on a telescopic arm works fine.
Hi Dave and editor, If you would be so kind to respond, I would lile to know if the age/mileage of the oil only afects its viscosity and damping ajustsments when it's hot, or even when it's cold has an influence? Other thing is, should my compression be more or less the same front and rear? And what should I test ride 1st front and then read or both at same time?? Thanks a lot, Cheers :D :D
Oil viscosity change from cold to hot increases with age so the effect is seen at cold and hot oil temperatures of 5C and 80C. Compression is set to the middle for test rides, then you try 75 and 25% to see what you prefer. Engineering for the forks and shock is different, so compression is not the same in adjuster position.
@@catalystreactionsbw oh okok. But if I have 75% front compression i should try to be around the same value on the back? Thank you sir, your awesome :)
So when we turn it to "+" (which is clockwise here), r we closing the compression valve and making the fork stiffer or opposite? Same question for rebound, when we turn it "clockwise / +" we should close the valve and this will make suspension rebound/extended to org length slower... ?? Thank you Dave in advance.
A rear shock requires quite a bit of special equipment and therefore a little investment in a nitrogen tank, pressure regulator, schrader valve, hypodermic needle and fitting, and specialised tools to get the shock apart. There are plenty of videos on TH-cam on dirt bike shock services if you want to see what is involved in principle.
Are the forks with asymmetric adjustments (as these) good enough for street and track days use? I'm investigating whether my choice would be adjustable fork cartridges and springs vs ohlins forks on a retro bike
Most big piston forks in today's bikes work extremely well and perform very well all the way into the advanced group. I know that from my own work at the track. The only thing that may need to be changed would be spring rate based on weight and ability.
If you are buying that model there are many different fork kits available for you to choose from. I have worked on Andreanni forks but have not seen much else. I would imagine Nitron and K-Tech make kits along with Ohlins etc.
Dave can you have 2 different compression settings in motorcycle forks?...My current compression setting is a tad too soft... If I go up to the next click (compression) on both forks it's too stiff... Can I jus go up 1 click on just one fork leg?
If you have compression in both legs and you have 2 adjusters (inside the nut and the nut itself), you have low speed/screw and high speed/nut. If just one adjuster in both legs set the same. If one adjuster in one leg (separate function forks), you can move in 2-3 click or .25 of a turn increments.
Compression adjusters can be in both fork caps, one fork cap, the left or right leg or on the base of the fork in the axle casting. There is no standard or universal placement now since the introduction of big piston forks.
big piston forks give better damping overall as you have more oil control and better flow management with a much bigger piston. Changing springs or seals is a bear though compared to cartridge forks.
@@catalystreactionsbw Fair point, caution it is. Out of curiosity, would adding a bit of preload be an effective means of mitigating any ill effects, or would that only upset the rest of the dynamics?
Damping means to control or restrict oscillation. With motorcycle forks, for example, that would be their up and down movement. The down movement is the "compression" stroke, and the up movement from that compression is the "rebound" stroke. The means of damping those two strokes is accomplished via oil flow. The compression and rebound screws on the forks are used to control the flow of fork oil; righty tighty lefty loosey. Turn them to the right and less oil flows thus slowing the movement, turn them to the left and more oil flows which speeds up the movement. Most people mispronounce "damping" and say "dampening". The linguistic reason is long and boring.
Can one single shock have rebound and compression controls? Or is it usually one front shock is for the rebound and the other front one is for compression as adjustments goes?
There are many configurations for for. All in both legs, one leg only with C&R, one leg with C one leg with R. Rear shocks generally have preload and rebound as a minimum, some don't have any adjustments.
I can do a big piston fork video as they are all generally the same in regards to build, adjustments and settings ranges. The only oddity is the ZX6R which has damping in only one fork and I have a couple of videos on those bikes already.
Looking for a DIY video that you have done. Even if it is not the same bike, but you know the parts and process is similar to the 2011 Zx6r. If you have a video plz link it to me. I belive that a good suspension set up is key to not wrecking in corners...and the forks haven't been touched for 15k miles, what should I relplace if anything (I was kinda thinking replacing everything from seals to spring)?
Given that millage, just fork oil and if needed, fork oil seals, and inspect fork bushings for bear as those forks are "bash apart". The BPF video is here: th-cam.com/video/nznDZpXqNv8/w-d-xo.html
Dave, just wanted to sincerely say, thank you.
I just did my first track weekend in about 3 seasons, and have learned a TREMENDOUS amount about suspension from your videos and DVDs. I was able to correctly set up my bike, help a friend with theirs, identify a rebound problem with my friends shock, and accurately record all data. This was all verified on track by our local club suspension tuner, and I have you to thank for it.
While I still have much to learn, ie reading tires, tire pressure, and becoming overall more knowledgeable about suspension, all of the information you have provide has gotten me leaps and bounds from where I was. I hope that someday I get the chance to thank you in person, and maybe even buy you a beer. Until then, keep doing what you're doing, you are the man!
Thank you for taking all this on board and most importantly, to help others out around you. Hopefully they too see the value in making their bike work for them and have taken time to learn from you and from the information I provide. Congrats on your success, and if a trip to the UK pops up it will be posted on my Facebook page: davemosstuning
Absolutely man. And totally forgot that I also helped another buddy set up his new bike. I was able to explain to him why he need stiffer spring up front and in the back.
I'll continue to spread the word, and try to point people in the right direction. I've told tons of riders about you and your videos.
Also, I'm over here on the East Coast of the US. Just waiting for you to make it out here, lol.
Johnny Gee Hi,
Where can I get his DVD's to learn about suspension?
Thank you
E.S. Slc
Hey bud, sorry for the late reply. I bought my dvd's from Amazon, but you can also purchase them directly from OnTheThrottle.com, and sometimes they pop up on eBay. They are absolutely excellent, have TONS of information.
Mr. Moss, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I’m learning so much from your videos. You’ve already helped me to be more safe and gain more enjoyment out of riding. Thx!
Thank you for the kind words and I am glad to read that you are leveraging the information to improve you and your motorcycle. Please continue sharing the information with your fellow riders to pay it forward and help me with my mission.
Hey Dave , Wow what genius you are , I tried this n believe me i can feel a big difference while leaning on corners ,it gives me more confidence on the corners .Thanks
thank you for getting tools out and getting to work on your bike. Please now pay this experience forward with other riders you know to help them, to help me with my mission of saving a life every day.
Thank you so much for your videos! I recently purchased a 2017 FZ-10, and after watching numerous videos from you, and editor Dave lol, it gave me the confidence to begin working on my suspension settings myself. Hopefully the next time you visit NorCal, i can catch you. Thanks again!
I look forward to meeting you in person to thank you for getting to work on your MT10 via the video help we provide. A tip of the hat to you!
I love your videos, Dave. I've learned so many things already and I always rewatch your tutorials whenever I adjust something.
Thanks for watching and learning to create a better handling bike that works for you.
Thanks for all the videos Dave, where should you be in your clicker range for track riding if your springs are set properly to your weight and ability? Should you be around 60-70% out and why? Thanks in advance!!!
Thanks for the kid words! Clicker settings are ideally in the middle third of the total range of adjustment no matter clicks or turns if springs are correct for your weight and ability. As the oil ages you will move toward the maximum/closed settings to control hot/thin oil. You would not leave engine oil in for 20,000 miles.
If a spring is stiffer, would the fork require less compression damping and more rebound damping? Would it be similar in the opposite direction? If the spring is softer, would it require more compression damping and less rebound damping?
Yes, your logic is correct in principle. This must be viewed against fork and shock travel actually used.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for your response.
Love the shorts.
Love your videos . Currently tuning my new mt-09-sp. Regarding my KYB forks; It seems to make sense but I haven't specifically heard you specify if front breaking is considered "slow speed compression" ?? And also, my zip tie seems to be stopping at about 3/4" from the bottom of the lower tube but I'm not able to find any data anywhere to tell me where the bottom limit of travel actually stops relative to the bottom of the lower tube? I would presume that If I grab a hand full of front brake with ABS on, that I would want the zip tie to stop about 1/2" above whatever the bottom limit of the travel is? Thank you for any help you can offer.
Brake set up for fork travel used is via preload. Low/slow speed compression sets the speed at which the forks collapse. Fork travel is 130mm from the spec sheet so you can measure bottom out this way: th-cam.com/video/eds3dn1LBkw/w-d-xo.html
What is the advantage/disadvantage of having one adjuster (Comp or rebound) in either fork leg, as opposed to both adjusters in both legs?
My 765 Street Triple RS has both rebound and compression adjusters on top of both legs, so I assume there are valves for both, in both legs?
The advantage is that you cannot cause interference by using each adjuster against the other and creating almost a hydraulic lock in the fork. The separation creates balance and precise adjustments in each leg. I much prefer this system as it allows me to get the bike set up quicker.
my bike came with ohlins suspension in it, the guy said it was set for a 250 pound guy, i m 150 so i bought a stock suspension and installed in the bike. my question is can i set the ohlins i have to my weight? its just sitting in the garage, or is it to hard?
You can research the spring rates on the shock as an test to see what is on there and if that equates to his weight you can use a softer spring and try the Ohlins. If the valving was built for the springs, you'll need to revalve and respring. Do you have an Ohlins dealer near you that you can talk to?
Does compression have to be same with rebound?
I get and understand compression on the front. A good tip it to cable tie the fork and be approx 20mm above the bottom out. I've never known how to set rear compression accurately? any tips for setting the compression for the rear?
If you shock is visible, exactly to same way with a small zip tie. You want to be 5-8mm off the rubber bumper ideally. In some cases, dirty and clean on the shaft is easy to spot. The only downside to a zip tie is losing it in the bottom out bumper and having to pull the shock and remove the spring to get it out of there. For shocks that you cannot see, a mirror on a telescopic arm works fine.
Hi Dave and editor,
If you would be so kind to respond, I would lile to know if the age/mileage of the oil only afects its viscosity and damping ajustsments when it's hot, or even when it's cold has an influence?
Other thing is, should my compression be more or less the same front and rear? And what should I test ride 1st front and then read or both at same time??
Thanks a lot,
Cheers :D :D
Oil viscosity change from cold to hot increases with age so the effect is seen at cold and hot oil temperatures of 5C and 80C. Compression is set to the middle for test rides, then you try 75 and 25% to see what you prefer. Engineering for the forks and shock is different, so compression is not the same in adjuster position.
@@catalystreactionsbw oh okok. But if I have 75% front compression i should try to be around the same value on the back?
Thank you sir, your awesome :)
@@JoaoFerreira-qj4zp The back is not engineered the same, so in answer to your question, no. Shock settings are unique to the shock.
So when we turn it to "+" (which is clockwise here), r we closing the compression valve and making the fork stiffer or opposite? Same question for rebound, when we turn it "clockwise / +" we should close the valve and this will make suspension rebound/extended to org length slower... ?? Thank you Dave in advance.
If you go +/clockwise flow is slowed down making movement slower.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thank you Sir. Just an extra Q. :) have you ever seen an adjustment turns clockwise not + but - ?)
@@plt4415 On old WP shocks yes.
Dave, I have confidence in myself to rebuild forks (damper rod and cartridge) but is the rear shock rebuild doable as a home mechanic ??
I don't have a spring compressor ...
A rear shock requires quite a bit of special equipment and therefore a little investment in a nitrogen tank, pressure regulator, schrader valve, hypodermic needle and fitting, and specialised tools to get the shock apart. There are plenty of videos on TH-cam on dirt bike shock services if you want to see what is involved in principle.
Are the forks with asymmetric adjustments (as these) good enough for street and track days use?
I'm investigating whether my choice would be adjustable fork cartridges and springs vs ohlins forks on a retro bike
Most big piston forks in today's bikes work extremely well and perform very well all the way into the advanced group. I know that from my own work at the track. The only thing that may need to be changed would be spring rate based on weight and ability.
Thank you for the prompt answer, but the rig I'm considering is a Bonneville, so it's a right side up fork with no regulations whatsoever
If you are buying that model there are many different fork kits available for you to choose from. I have worked on Andreanni forks but have not seen much else. I would imagine Nitron and K-Tech make kits along with Ohlins etc.
Dave can you have 2 different compression settings in motorcycle forks?...My current compression setting is a tad too soft... If I go up to the next click (compression) on both forks it's too stiff... Can I jus go up 1 click on just one fork leg?
If you have compression in both legs and you have 2 adjusters (inside the nut and the nut itself), you have low speed/screw and high speed/nut. If just one adjuster in both legs set the same. If one adjuster in one leg (separate function forks), you can move in 2-3 click or .25 of a turn increments.
@@catalystreactionsbw I have preload & rebound on top & 1 compression down low on each fork leg
@@bandanamuzic okay so you have only one compression adjuster. Fork high speed adjusters are very rare.
I like how the video on compression has a ton of compression on the vocal mic as well 😬😬😬
Hello, i'm a bit confused, i though adjuster for compression are always on BOTTOM of the fork, near the wheel axis?
Compression adjusters can be in both fork caps, one fork cap, the left or right leg or on the base of the fork in the axle casting. There is no standard or universal placement now since the introduction of big piston forks.
If one has a choice, what would you recommend buying: bikes with big piston forks only or also cartridge forks?
big piston forks give better damping overall as you have more oil control and better flow management with a much bigger piston. Changing springs or seals is a bear though compared to cartridge forks.
Any real downsides to opening up compression on the street?
Suspension stoke increases and on bigger bumps, that means more velocity. Open in 1/4 turn increments so go a step at a time.
@@catalystreactionsbw Fair point, caution it is.
Out of curiosity, would adding a bit of preload be an effective means of mitigating any ill effects, or would that only upset the rest of the dynamics?
@@233kosta Preload is used to get travel to 75-80% of the total range first, then compression after that.
@@catalystreactionsbw Makes sense, thanks for entertaining my nonsense!
are you from the uk originally dave?
Yes, Manchester originally and left for the US in 1987.
Hi. The term "damping " is the same as "compression" or "rebound" ? Thanks
Damping means to control or restrict oscillation. With motorcycle forks, for example, that would be their up and down movement. The down movement is the "compression" stroke, and the up movement from that compression is the "rebound" stroke. The means of damping those two strokes is accomplished via oil flow. The compression and rebound screws on the forks are used to control the flow of fork oil; righty tighty lefty loosey. Turn them to the right and less oil flows thus slowing the movement, turn them to the left and more oil flows which speeds up the movement. Most people mispronounce "damping" and say "dampening". The linguistic reason is long and boring.
Dave Moss Tuning thank you sir for this elaborate explanation
Can one single shock have rebound and compression controls? Or is it usually one front shock is for the rebound and the other front one is for compression as adjustments goes?
There are many configurations for for. All in both legs, one leg only with C&R, one leg with C one leg with R. Rear shocks generally have preload and rebound as a minimum, some don't have any adjustments.
Thanks sir
dave could you do one on showa big piston forks for 2013 honda cbr 600rr
I can do a big piston fork video as they are all generally the same in regards to build, adjustments and settings ranges. The only oddity is the ZX6R which has damping in only one fork and I have a couple of videos on those bikes already.
Anybody got a tip on a video for forks rebuild on the 2011 zx6r?
What tips are you looking for?
Looking for a DIY video that you have done. Even if it is not the same bike, but you know the parts and process is similar to the 2011 Zx6r. If you have a video plz link it to me. I belive that a good suspension set up is key to not wrecking in corners...and the forks haven't been touched for 15k miles, what should I relplace if anything (I was kinda thinking replacing everything from seals to spring)?
Given that millage, just fork oil and if needed, fork oil seals, and inspect fork bushings for bear as those forks are "bash apart". The BPF video is here: th-cam.com/video/nznDZpXqNv8/w-d-xo.html
Dave Moss Tuning You're the man Dave, thanks for the advice! Subscribed!
th-cam.com/video/8T-LtOF5D2I/w-d-xo.html