2 Clicks Out: Motorcycle Shock Static Sag
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ค. 2018
- www.DaveMossTuning.com
Static or Free Sag is more critical for the rear of the bike than for the front because you're essentially sitting atop the shock. Here we present the full shock static sag spectrum; none, some, just right, and too much.
www.DaveMossTuning.com - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
If you think this is impressive, wait till you see Dave look at a rear tire and tell the rider what food he had for dinner the night before.
Thanks for the good laugh brother.
You sir, are the Gordon Ramsey of motorcycles. But much friendlier
Well said that man
I was thinking Jeremy Wade
Tiitittiitittiiietiitietieeiitietietitietiiteiteititi
Gordon Ramsey is the Dave Moss of culinary...
...but not nearly as cool. Or fast!
I would kinda like to see that, guy rocks up with too much pre-load, "oh for fks sake!".
I'm betting everyone went out to their bike and tested for static sag after this video. Loving your work brother!
I'm setting everything up tomorrow!
bang on mate
Going out to the bike right now...
😂😂😂😂 I left mine alone
I definitely did and I have none, totally wish this guy was closer to me. I'd gladly pay him to tune my cbr
It’s refreshing to see a confident expert, not trying to show off, just educating people and showing them how to be better. Excellence shouldn’t be a dirty word. Cheers.
"Are you riding a chopper ? No you are not. So why should you suffer the indignity of riding one?"
Words right there. Thanks Dave for the amount of info any enthusiast riders can get from your channel and expertise.
I like the fact that he does this on a variety of different motorcycles.
Love how Dave constantly educates the riders of the bikes he's tuning
It's a must. I'd bet half the riders in need of adjustments thought 'more is better' and cranked their adjustments completely out of whack. Ignorance is not bliss on a bike.
Static sag with the bike under its own weight should be 15-25mm in the front and 10-15mm in the rear with cold suspension. Rider sag should be a totally separate number. Add both together. Static sag creates a dead space so when the shock (most important) tops out it does not ping you straight out of the seat.
Dave Moss Tuning when are you coming to the Philadelphia NJ area.
I have just discovered your videos. Do your tips apply to dirt bikes as well? I ride and race dirt and just ride street, no track days.
I have an '06 883C an '83 VT500 Ascot, and race a '84 and '95 CR250r
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Dave, I do not understand why a lack of 'static sag' would "smash you out of the seat". Static sag is being set with no rider on the bike. Bikes normally will have a rider when in motion. For example, when that rider hits a bump, the suspension is not sitting at static sag, its sitting at rider sag...which is 20-30mm more than the static number... Am I missing something? In your metaphor about being the second kid on the trampoline....are we not also the first kid since we are sitting on the bike? How can we be both? Thanks in advance!
@@ssrsuspension8247 I am not disagreeing with that statement. However, i am still not sure why a lack of static sag matters at all since the bike will have rider weight compressing the suspension at all times. If the bike drove itself with no rider, I would understand...but if there is a rider on the bike, you will never have the rear shock fully extended when hitting bumps...unless I am missing something. To be clear, I am not trash talking, I genuinely want to understand the physics behind this concept.
bcyz1000 because under brakes the rear will unload due to weight transferring to the front. A little give beyond that means the suspension has a little give left in it under brakes?
This is really important . This guy's knowledge and work undoubtedly has and will save lives. Very cool.
@4:36 static inception. I have now found a new joy.... 1 coffee + 1 new Dave Moss video. 🙏🏻
Thanks for promoting safe riding and putting people in the know or at least getting them to think about it some
im def scheduling some sort of remote session with you Dave when the weather here in NJ gets nicer and im back on my '18 triumph street triple RS more... pure magic these vids!
Dave's a combination of loving his job & having almost zero patience for people with zero preload lol
Been riding all my life and still learned some really useful stuff from this vid. Thank you!
Your a top bloke!. I have a 2001 R1 & MT-09 2022 which was easy to ride, I followed your steps and did all adjustments, The bike glides around, I'm amazed at how smooth wheelies are now. They should show your videos when people get there learners. You save lives
Thank you for using the information I provided and posting your experiences that resulted from changes being made. A tip of my hat to you sir!
knowledge and humor personality make it easy to like this , nice to watch and learn something along.
Great camera angle and explanation on multiple set ups! Beautiful
This is why I love riding my Multistrada with DSS. JUST PRESS A BUTTON and it figures it out for me and it has taught me how it should feel when properly setup. Watching Dave has taught me the mechanics of what I already knew but needed to see it being implemented.
Thanks Dave, your simply amazing.
Thank you for wanting to learn more and trusting my videos to leverage to that end.
@old man strength Measure to a decal, piece of tape or scratch. Your call on the point to measure to.
I just came across your video, and I subscribed. Thanks for waking me up to properly setting up my bike Sir!!! Now I can have a safer ride at 64 yrs old!!
Never too young to learn something new right! :) Welcome to a new and more comfortable (old) bike.
Excellent video and free knowledge, thank you Dave.
Dave Moss is such a genius that when he talks very few people can keep up with him.
Dave, your accent, I can't place it - but I don't need to. This is straight down to earth facts, clearly you know your science and there is none of the repetitive bluster of so many other channels. Maybe thats not an accent, that is the voice of knowledge and experience. This is absolute mustard.
I've been watching some of his videos and trying to guess the accent too. Think I hear hints of northern English (Manchester maybe) but it's faded a bit from probably travelling a lot. Anyhow yeah watched a bunch of videos about suspension and he's the only guy I really feel like I'm understanding
Truly therapeutic to watch. Informative too!
Sir Dave Moss. You may have saved my life by the importance of correct suspension settings. I no longer bounce around corners but smoothly progress around corners. I am now in my 70 so I thank you so much for your advice from NZ where we have a lot of bumpy roads.
Thank you Denis. Hope to be back on tour with classes in NZ for 2022 if NZ opens up to tourists. I would love to get back to saving lives with Shiny Side Up events.
Lol im 69 and been riding since 1971 and didn't have a clue about suspension set up until i started watching these videos, they are so informative. I ride in the UK and there are bumps and potholes everywhere so hoping this will help improve my riding experience
valuable information thank you for shearing 👍 we even lowered our bike 30 mm mounting longer 🦴 dog bones and 15 mm in the front forks after adjusting the static’s i think an adjusting of the low beam on the headlight are also necessary
much appreciated for all the examples Dave! I watched your other vids to learn what each suspension setting do and learned where to find them all on my '10 Z1000. just missing the C spanner wrench, but once I get that I hope to fix the stiff suspension problem on my bike soon! I never re-adjusted after previous owner and he was doing a lot of stunts, so I bet he set suspension to hardest levels ... rear is killing my butt over road bumps on highway, smacks my own rear-end so hard sometimes that it hurts to the point I brace myself before each one LOL .... time to first document what each one is at and change that and I think I can do it the right way by checking for static and rider sag, rebound, etc. Great vids! I will definitely be sharing those with fellow riders!
I went and took a click out of preload on the back of my bike because of this video. I kinda think I had static sag but now I am sure I have some. Have to see how the bike rides tomorrow
Just checked the static sag on my 2018 MT - 07. Absolutely none with all the pre-load removed. Hitting big bumps on the highway does make me want to fly off my bike. Thanks Dave! for teaching me why my bike is doing that to me.
As soon as you get the fork oil viscosity changed and trim the spacer, it will be a different bike. th-cam.com/video/X-uiiksWsOs/w-d-xo.html
Not only working on there Bikes u have to deal with customers.Great Job Dave
Not sure why only 47k subscribers. It’s fast, clear, without talking too much. Once some time ago I have used PB Uk magazine chart they did with group of bikes. I followed that chart for zx6r, risen rear height, soften rear spring (a lot) added preload to the front forks, played some clicks with compression. This was only based on tester weight, so not really custom setup. It was really different from factory setup anyway. I mean the bike was completely different, it was amazing, softer and more friendly on the road, but way sharper to turn and nimble because of added rear height. Guys! Don’t do crazy upgrades, don’t buy shit you don’t need. Make sure you have good tyres and do professional suspension setup! You will be amazed. Most of bikers should watch his videos to get the idea. Thank you Dave!
Thanks for the support! We have no idea why so few subscribers. This channel is unique so the only thing we can think of is that it is too technical.
Dave Moss Tuning it is technical indeed, but it gives idea how important suspension is. You go down to dealers to buy new bike, no one ever ask what’s your weight, 70-80-110kg. You just get the bike and that’s it. If it’s too technical just go to see specialist! Best tuning you can do without changing hardware on the bike (in most of the cases). Thank you Dave and Guys for being there!
I learned a thing or two and a few chuckles along the way. Cheers 👍
Thank you Dave!! Thank you for all your videos
Thanks for many answers,top notch.
I can tell that the camera man has a lot of interest . As he knows exactly where that spanner is going & where he needs to be to get the best shot . Would love Dave to set up my enduro bike
We can do that via remote tuning, so you have the ability for me to help you set it up.
I have watched tis video several times but not got around to checking this my concentration on front end etc/runs revealed despite rider sag matching front some discomfort on some sharp bumps. Checked static rear found barely 4mm adjusted preload now very close to 10mm for my GSXR 1000 K4 suspension fitted K2 - cheers. Look forward to next run out to check results.
reasonable static sag just shows you that you have a reasonable suspension spring if its set for you with reasonable rider sag.
ie zero static sag usually shows you have too light a spring fitted because you have to put a stack of preload on it to stop it sagging too much because of your weight.
The person/s at Yamaha who chose the suspension and base settings for the 2018/19 MT07 needs a good slap 😄...Can't wait till I upgrade
Great video. Thanks for sharing. Keep the good work Dave! It's a life saving advice even on a street riding.
Dave is a credit to the biking community.
Thank you for vídeo class I'm try on my bike here in Brazil. Idid change the rear shock tree times already because mecanics sad that the shock went bad.
This guy is a suspension wizard.
You are watching a master at his craft.
Very informative video's Dave. Great stuff
My conclusion from this video... there is my bike... and then there is my bike's hidden potential for giving me a better ride after applying these tuning tips.. can't wait to try this and unleash the bike within.
Excellent statement, perception and goal. Start with ergonomics, then sag, then damping. Use a cable tie on the right fork tube to assess travel used. Then experiment with cold pressures. In this sequence, your knowledge will grow on a solid foundation.
Love this guy stay strong Dave Moss,
Thank you, Dave!
Great knowledge on suspension
I just bought a used bike that came with box of parts ...mainly emission stuff but ALSO a shock spring ...the stock spring according to second owner/seller I bought from. Now the spring on the bike has a clear to read number on it ...is there somewhere to reference what the number means? I tried to ask one shop and they did not even reply...
THANK YOU! Ill see mine later.
At least one man know what he is doing!!!
as a chopper rider i never even suspected of the indignity i was suffering , i shaw go and inform all of mi friends about this and we will all go on GSX R'S . I am onlyt joking ofc as i assume you are as well , lets respect all riders eh :D . Great vids , the only indigniity i have suffered over the years is i never knew of your chanell before yesterday so now i am binging it all , it is quite unhealthy but at least it will keep me off that chopper :D .
Enjoy the content and start with a cable tie on the right fork leg to see how much travel you are using. Thanks for watching!
"sometimes fancy it cost more money for no reason" an advice from the expert for all newbies that all show no performance, stock is the best afterall
About a month ago I have been forced to swap to stock exhaust, which was passed to me along with the bike. Gosh! It is different machine now, the bike, how its engine was designed and tested in the whole bundle. So much more from... the stock, exactly.
Wow I want to check my bike now Dave your great mate (Y)
This dude is a awesome at his job
Thank you - it took a lot of years to really understand what was needed and then be able to communicate to any rider the what and why in clear and understandable terms.
Thanks Dave my Street triple was showroom set with too much rear preload. It didn't budge and felt light in the rear on breaking, and hard on bumps. Two clicks longer and feels good.
Glad it helped
@@catalystreactionsbw Yes, thanks all the way from Merseyside
@@guyedwards6696 You are very welcome and thanks for rolling up your sleeves and finding the settings you need.
A few mm here and there makes all the difference and also makes Dave Moss a nice living.
There’s only two people in motobike world you need to know. Mechanical topics Dave and riding topics MotoJitsu.
the man is a wizard
Dave, I really enjoy the education you put forth and very greatful for all the effort you give to help the riding community. But you have given me a severe case of spanner wrench envy! Who makes that spanner? and where would I be able to obtain one like it?
First you have to check if the spring is the stock spring. Sometimes a former owner mounted another one because of his weight or he is alway's driving with a passenger. In other words you have to change the spring. When they don't want another spring the compromize it with such a hard spring with no static sag. So there is mostly a reason wy they choose for no static sag.
how much of static sag is enough ,street bike ,now my sag is 32 and free sag or static is 10mm , rebou is ok ,but i still feel the bike is loose
Aren't you afraid, that removing too much preload will make the bike wallow in turns? I would love to have Dave fit my bike. I am impressed.
man you kept me watching these videos non stop... i got to work!!! shit... awersome stuff you have here!
Thank you very much - don't get fired!!!!
Dave you need to come to massachusetts. Cycle gear in woburn, ma. We spoke last season about this but due to schedule and financial reasons you werent able to make it. If you came during a bike night im positive we could get 50-100 bikes to show up.
Then I will look into this further. I cannot physically get through more than 60 bikes a day before I a physically depleted. I can price out the cost of the trip and see how many bikes it would take to break even. Ir would not be on a bike night - it would be a stand alone event.
Static sag,is used to determine if the spring weight is correct for the rider.
this info is so useful , thanks for posting . .
Thank you for watching
Great video I've become obsessed with watching them thanks for all the great tips, any plans of bringing your tools to the uk?
I go to the UK every year right around Christmas time and have seminars at SSR Suspension in Telford.
reference working on the GSXR, I had to notice, he has got good knees. I would not be able bounce down and back to my feet so often and so effortlessly LOL
The bat man fz1 I've seen that before 😂👍🏼✌🏼
Wished we had you here in Denmark :-)Would love to have a course with you,
It amazes me how popular lowering links are these days - I think it’s a part of the same issue: folks trying to lower their bike by compressing the shock spring.
I am a new subscriber to your channel and so far I am very impressed with what I see there is a lot of things I did not understand and realize with bikes my name is Nigel noble I am all the way from Guyana that's in the South America
Thank you for subscribing Nigel. I hope my videos really help you with the things you do not understand.
I've noticed my gf is starting to have static sag 😭
They all get old
Rider error.
poor maintenance xD
lol
Exchange for a newer model with fewer miles?
I have a mt07 2019 model, I have the rear shock at 1 ( soft) and there is no static sag at all, what can I do?
Take rider sag measurements. If you are the 30-40mm range, the spring can work if you set rebound correctly. If you have 20-25mm of rider sag a softer spring is needed or you get a conversion kit from Race Tech that changes from the ramp adjuster to a threaded ring set up.
A motorcycle is such an alluring machine. It's the capacity for speed and acceleration and the roar of the sweet aftermarket exhausts that draw you in. Then you realize you know nothing about how they actually work. Have respect for your bike. It can make you look real cool but it can also make you look real stupid.
Such an excellent video tutorial Dave. I plan on using your directions to start the set-up on my 2013 RSV4 for some canyon runs this weekend. However, I would like to know if *before any* of the SAG measurements are you supposed to completely back off (Unloaded / Zero) the Pre-load, Compression and Rebound settings for both Front and Rear Shocks ?
Completely up to you. Most will set all damping and preload to minimum and go from there as that is their best case scenario on approaching the task. Mine is a time management issue, so I do not zero out, I see where we are and work form that point.
6 years without rear sag holy.....
Amazing to watch a master at work. I'm wondering if static & dynamic sag should be around the same as these road bikes as opposed to my 07 BMW R1200gs which doesn't have ESA. I dirt ride a lot. Awesome channel thank you.
Thanks for the kind words. Better to use a 30-33% starting point based on total travel available. Then mark bottom out on your forks (use video on fork bottom out) and you can see how much shock travel you can use. Adjust preload up or down on either shock based on travel used. Enjoy the travel.
This guy is intense
Dave I would like to ask you please what's the changes in suspension I need to do after upgrading to carbon fiber wheels. Thank you
Start here: th-cam.com/video/yS9iW3Zyef4/w-d-xo.html
And here I thought getting bucked out of the seat after a bump was just part of riding a sportbike in the city. Time to start experimenting with suspension.
Sooooooo...... what did you do? Please share you experience to inspire others!
"How long have you owned the bike?"
"6yrs"
...oh my...
I'm about to buy my first street bike and I've seen so many DMT videos the first thing I'm going to do is adjust everything lolol. I only wish Dave was around my area.
I developed Remote Tuning for riders like yourself to interact with you in your garage via email or video 1-1. That way I can help anyone anywhere in the world. If you would like that help, please email me dave@davemosstuning.com
thinking about starting to ride at the age of 41 .. not sports .. but street bikes ... no license yet .. nor bike ofc .. and still i`m looking at this vid .. find it interesting as hell haha
Can you please do a video adjusting a Honda XR650L the same way you do these bikes?
Great to see the enthusiasm you have in setting up riders safely.
Please confirm that my reasoning is correct. If rear travel is 90mm then I need total of 30mm sag ( ie 10mm static sag and 20mm rider )
I assume that the measurements are taken with the bike on ground not centrestand??
Also if I take a pillion then the suspension will need to be firmed up, won’t this reduce the static sag??
Yes, correct and make sure you trust the person measuring :)
How do you adjust the preload of a stock 2012 R1? The bikes new to me and it doesn’t seem to have the collar adjuster.
Either with a flat blade screwdriver or a 4mm allen on the remote adjuster under the compression
So I have hurt my preload ring adjuster. My bike is a nuda900r with ohlins , does ohlins use a universal tool for their shocks? every time i find a tool that somehow fits it eats away on my rings.
Ohlins has their own preload tool designed for their shocks, and it normally comes with a new shock with manual preload rings
Dave given the fact that bicycles weigh so much less should my mountain bike have static sag on the rear shock? I've got it set up with about 24% ride sag, (12mm) but I'm wondering if there should be any static sag what are your thoughts. It's a trek fuel ex5. it weighs 32 lbs, it has a RockShox Monarch air shock on the back and a RockShox silver Recon Fork up front.
Great question. I don't know of air shocks would need or even have any staic sag as they always go to full extension. In this case, I think it would be all about travel management in setting pressure to ensure you use 80% of the travel available to you.
Good afternoon. Can you also check sag when the front wheel is on a motorcycle stand held by the botttom of the forks?? Or does specially need to be on one of the chocks you use. Thanks
If you unload the forks and shock first and acquire top out value, then assess the bike under it's own weight using the stands, that will allow you to find static sag. With stands, there is slightly more compression/sag as the wheels are in the air.
Just walked out to my 765RS after having the dealer tweak my suspension, zero static sag. This video was incredibly enlightening! Going to make some adjustments and re-evaluate. Presumably with no other changes, reducing preload on the rear spring and increasing static sag will make the bike turn quicker?
Thanks for the kind words. Setting the bike to flat or neutral will help the bike turn at your command verses the oversteer you get from the rear being rigid and tall.
Thanks! I made some changes to preload and experienced exactly that. Time to experiment more with other settings. Thanks again for the insight and taking the time to respond!
That adjuster tool looks special one. I hardly can’t find it on internet. Can send me a link where to buy that tools. Thanks Dave, you’re the best.
www.maxiscoot.com/en/product/buzzetti-c-spanner-43660
Real pro he is
do you recommend anti-seize, grease or anything on the adjustment collars?
For shock linkages, swing arm bushings and triple clamp bearings I use high temp wheel bearing grease.
Dave, is it possible to lose the rider sag numbers when pursuing static sag via reducing the rear preload?
Absolutely, if the spring is too soft or too stiff.
I don't like that not a single rider rode and tested before / after feeling..
im a larger rider myself. and ive set my bike to have MINIMAL static sag, and i focused more on rider sag.
my bike felt like complete poop when setting it up how others "suggested"
after measuring everything myself and starting with factory suspension settings the bike woke right up.
I then followed a very trusted suggestion of them saying to stiffen everything up tight just like the GP riders.
You HAVE to absolutely consider Cornering stability, and also straight line stability. braking stability and on/off throttle stability.
From my personal experience (and it may not be worth much) i found INFINITELY more confidence through corners when i tightened the bike up.
i absolutely did not like coming on throttle and feeling the rear end squat/sag while im flying through a corner flat out. It made my trajectory
unpredictable at best.
i also noticed that the softer rear makes the bike turn response duller? when i had the bike stiff everything was SHARP. i could avoid anything.
like i said my confidence was through the roof when i measured/stiffened the bike based on FACTORY specifications.
(never listen to the guy that doesnt start from factory)
In my final conclusion i would like to see track times. Bike performance is first priority. Rider comfort is second.
What about static sag in front?
I suppose that should be adapted too? Or is it not relevant...
It is relevant if you want the data points especially in regards to how the chassis sits for weight bias/pitch/balance.
Dave can you please come to UK Silverstone
got a link as to where to buy the adjustable c spanner you are using?
Shop around as this is one source: www.maxiscoot.com/buzzetti-c-spanner-wb-5415-3.html?___store=mxs_en
I'm checking sag now, even though it's 2:54 am.
Im going to book a sessin with you from Ghana one of these Days. Ninja 250 / 2012/ Green Monster