This guy tuned/dialed in my stock suspension on my '08 KTM Super Duke 990 at a track day at Sonoma Raceway. It took him maybe 2 minutes. Totally transformed the bike and I was easily 5 seconds faster a lap the next session. I was blown away by the stability. BEST $20 I EVER SPENT.
I just had my Ninja 300’s suspension set up by Dave. I learned so much in just 10 min of speaking to him and watching him work. He’s a Wizard, I tell ya!
Interesting tool, especially when there is no assistant with a tape measure around :) I work as mechanical engineer at Ohlins Racing, and can vouch for his statement that sag adjustment is the very first step that should be done if you want to get the most performance out of your suspension(and ultimately faster lap times). There also some misconseptions out there what the preload does. Some people believe that the spring will become stiffer by adding preload, but that is not the case. Preload only changes the sag or "ride height", that's all it does. The spring has the same spring rate (Newton/mm) throughout the whole stroke (unless you have progressive springs, which is not very common on sport bikes).
Hi Mikael, Good point, thank you for the input! I think alot of people just don't have enough time to learn about this stuff so it is easy for others to spread bad information. We need more people like you that are willing to add to the conversation rather than start their own! If you see Chris Nilsson (Stockholm) if he is back from paternity leave!
@@SlackerUSA Ahh, so you know Cristopher? I wouldn't say I know him very well, since we never have worked in the same department, but I have talked to him briefly. I'm with the MC OEM dept. since 2013, and he is with the marketing dept. in the north end of the Ohlins building. I will tell him you said hi next time I see him :) And regarding suspension setup, and analyzing/solving mysterious chassis behavior, there is a lot more to be said. Although I've worked at Ohlins for more than 8 years, I still learn new things almost daily, and there is always things to improve, so I have never seen myself as an "expert". But I'm willing to share my accumulated knowledge to anyone who is interested. It's also in the best interest of Ohlins that our customers knows what to do with all the knobs and dials, so they make full use of their investment.
@@mikaeljonsson2078 Yep, we met a few years ago at the Anaheim Supercross and he is a great guy! Thank you for the input, you are welcome here any time;-)
But if F=Kx, doesn't that mean that as you compress the spring (more preload), then the minimum force to compress the spring further, is now higher? That's why commoners say it is now "stiffer", because it is?
xxMegaHDxx They run $150 for Slacker and $25 for the street kit. We sell them as a bundle on our site. If you are interested email me and I can get you a discount code- johny@motool.co
Yep, a great guy and straight up genius on street setup. We will be working together closely moving forward to educate riders on the importance of setup for both performance and safety.
Finally saw this vid the other day. My Motool V2 is on the way. Dave, thanks for this cool information. I've been going crazy trying to setup my R1M. Now I don't have to explain what to measure and what to do.
Hey dave 2007 r6 when i press down the front end. Im gettin a crunch or smal clunk noise. What could it be ? Possible stem bearing adjustment? Or fork suspension issue? Thanks
Hey Dave! I have a 2019 Yamaha R3 that I just bought as my first motorcycle (other than dirtbikes). I am having a hard time getting the rear spring preload set to a decent amount. I have played with settings 3 through the softest/less compressed setting but the ride is pretty firm on the cracks in the road. At one point I had to stand up yesterday because it felt like I could get bucked off. I weigh less than most riders (150 lbs). Also, I have the dunlop sportmax gpr 300f tires on it that are brand new. I am running 29 psi in the front and 36 psi rear like it says on the swingarm. Also, I thought it was odd, but I am only getting around 15% compression of the rear spring when I sit on it and it is set on the weakest setting. I also do not see any static sag when I pick the bike up on the weakest setting or any setting for that matter.
If you have no static its too much pre load! I push my rear down let it rebound then lift up to check for sag. Also that tire pressure is way too high!! Mine says the same but 36 is a lot & will only get higher the more you ride from heat. Friction makes heat plus road temp! As seasons change you'll need to adjust the psi, where i live in the south psi can increase by about 10 with aggressive driving in the summer. Ive been riding on decent days recently about 28 & 30 psi, which only increases, the warmer the air temp the warmer the road & the more increase your tire pressure will have! In warmer weather & summer I'll drop to 26 & 28 & maybe more. All bikes & all tires are different! I weigh not much more than you & my preload is almost at the maximum adjustment, if you have too take it to the max to get that static sag you need & take out some tire pressure! That will for sure make a difference! The roads around here can be awful so i fight the same thing. If you have been to the softest setting with no relief that should tell you tires are all thats left. 29-30 psi in the rear is absolutely plenty! Some run a lot less than that, youll have to experiment & see what you like. If you're at 36 & you ride a few hours you may be at 40psi or even more which would be a hard tire. Hope this can help you & you get it straightened out. If you don't believe me just listen to what this guy says about tires & pressure, anyone that knows will say the same! Good luck, ride safe!
Good info, that’s why I always check cold and hot tire pressure. It gives you a good reference of a starting point, if do it a lot you will know the about start pressure. I street ride and if its 95 degrees out side I know to set cold tires at around 28, when I ride I know it will end up around 35-36. Just s trick a buddy taught me many moons ago.
For an even more accurate reading, you can put a small block of wood under rear tire to match the front wheel's chock stand height, otherwise your bike is at at a slight upright angle during all your measurements.
what spring hardness should be mounted close to the original? maybe a little harder. motorcycle is gsxr 600 k4. I mean the front suspension.I can't find the hardness of the original spring anywhere
Great video, ill def. Get it when im confident in messing with the suspension....if you dont mind me asking, where can i get those clips for the D ring fasteners?
Mark Farnsworth he can help you set up everything for you & your Biking needs over his Facebook Account,i think his FB details are in the Descriptions under most of his YT vids ✊💨✌✊💨 hope this helps ??? Keep it Pinned & Rubber side up ✌️
Do I need to completely lift the front and rear suspension with the well of the ground or just lift it a little with my hands? How do I know if I’m lifting it too much or too little?
I told the shop i wanted the suspension adjusted to my weight. And he said ill just use the clickers , ride it then come back if you need it. And soon as i left the shop i could feel the difference. And it wasnt a good difference. The front is too soft now. Almost to the point where front of the bike turns but the read doesnt follow. Feels its slipping under me when i lean the bike. What kind of settings do you recommend for a 2007 zx6r street bike sag & suspension settings that has had its forks worked on a season ago (last year). since i live upstate NY and bike is only barely ridden 5 months .
You should email Dave Moss directly. You can check out his website davemosstuning dot com - he can do all your suspension setup via skype! I've met him several times IRL and he's the best!!!
I was wondering, if I want to measure the dynamic sag for my pre load, do I have to worry about the compression settings, because if there is a lot of compression rebound, the results I measure will be different from the results with no compression rebound, I suppose.
Great info on how to get the numbers... But NOW, what do we DO with them..?? How do we come back and find the setting that is best for US individually? And how do we know if the front and rear are 'level' with each other?
Start in the middle and work either direction to find your sweet spot. A balanced bike would be something like 30mm in the front and 30mm in the rear for street. From there you can try some different settings to find what works best for you.
Hello Dave, I want to thank you very much for all the videos and trying to help us riders, especially they are good for me, as I keep trying to figure this out!!! :) (happy face doesn't work on TH-cam) regardless, I have the measurement with myself on it, then to the same line/place, measure without myself, then again when I top out the shock. have I got it by---I just get a mental block, have learning disabilities- averaging the three??? but if that's so, then do I set the free sag to the average number? I hope that isn't a dumb question. I'm trying and I have nobody, (live with my dogs) to help me figure it. Thank you again. Average OF the three I should have wrote.
liveatvictoria This is Johny with Motool. Typically we set the rider sag and then look at the static. Using the average is a good way to do it, the biggest thing is always do it the same. Consistency is key to making gains in bike setup;-)
@@SlackerUSAThank you very much. I have a 2017 GSX-R1000R, really should know at least some of this by now, but used to have a person helped and my last bike was a 1987 Honda CBR1000F Hurricane, which had spring shocks, with very minimal adjustment availability. Now to try and learn the rebound and compression settings. Won't mess with it till I understand better. Thank you again.
@@liveatvictoria6853 No problem, it is confusing for everyone at first. As long as you pick a little bit up here and there you will get there! Happy New Years!
It does affect the damping as the fluid gets hotter and thinner. It will only slightly affect the sag due to the damping being a little softer but nothing major.
This is Johny, typically 25-35mm depending on the track. We do have more specific videos here from Dave and you can find recommended setting in our user guides and Service Assistant App.
I understand what is all about but as for me I am not going on track and I do not need a specific set-up for a specific track, what I will like to know what is the balanced set-up and what this set-up of sag will do to my driving? Can I have some tips?
For general street riding I would shoot for 30mm on both ends. It will allow the bike to do everything pretty good and be very predictable as opposed to a race setup that would be geared towards a particular track and focus on doing one or two things extremely well and sacrificing in other areas.
@@SlackerUSA ..thanx, you got exactly my point but 30mm on front is not too much soft? As far as I understood should be less than back, let say 30mm back, 20mm front, but what I also will like to understand more, other than compression and dumping (which are essential the most) how the bike will react on front with the 20 or 30 mm sag? How the back will react with 30 or 20mm sag? I get how the bike work in breaking and acceleration but how it effect it?
@@robertking1032 It is a matter of what you like but generally I would start flat like 30 on both ends or 25 on both ends. To adjust the stiffness, that is all dampers, sag set the bikes posture and you do not use the springs to adjust the stiffness or prevent bottoming typically. As far as balance, having the front lower than the rear will make it turn sharper but be less stable at speed. If the rear sits lower it will be more stable at speed but will not steer very well. Racers make a compromise for turn or speed, for typical street riders you want a balanced, flat bike typically. The best way to find out is set it up and try tweaking it to find what you like. No rider is the same;-)
I don't make any adjustments to damping prior to taking the measurement. The key is consistency so just make sure you always follow the same routine;-)
@@ringsting The only one I know is www.mirivi.co.za/ but they haven't ordered in quite a while so I doubt they have stock. We can ship it to you for about $25.00 and if you use code VIP10 that will get you 10% off to help cover shipping. Shoot me an email if you have questions- johny@motool.co
Whats a good sag setting front n back on a 2012 gsxr 750 track bike on dlop slicks, stock suspension, stock geometery,185lb. Old rider but i "was" an expert racer, 8 year out of the game.
I would start at 30mm both ends for the most balanced bike. You can go a little more in the front if you want tighter steering but this would be a good starting place for you and you can experiment from there to find what you like best;-)
I've just bought the slacker and I'm a bit confused to be honest , when I lift the back of the bike to find static sag I'm getting a reading of 26mm , but when I zero it and sit on bike to get rider sag I'm getting 24/25 mm so do I take preload of or put preload on . thanks for any help
You need to start with the tool at zero with the suspension unloaded. I know Dave starts with the tool at zero with the bike under it's own weight here, but he likes to add and subtract and it is not necessary. With the bike under it's own weight, simply put the tool in auto zero and lift the bike until the suspension tops out. Then all your measurements are in real-time. By the sounds of it you likely have way too much sag and are seeing a static of 26mm plus 25mm (51mm) you are reading when you sit on it. Make sure the tool is zeroed out with the suspension fully unloaded and then let me know what the measurements are;-)
@@SlackerUSA fantastic , I've now got a static sag of 10mm ( slacker zeroed out bike upright and me lifting the rear end ). after some adjustments and when I'm on the bike with it under my weight I've got 28mm ( bike upright and slacker zeroed out and then me on it ). So is this a rider sag of 38 mm . Do you add the to figures together ?. Thanks for any help . Dylan .
@@DylanGSXR You are right on the money! No need to add, this is showing you 10mm with the bike under it's own weight and 28mm with you mounted. No need for math as it is measuring from where the shock topped out when you placed it in auto zero. Good work;-)
Dave will not get this as this is posted under the Motool channel. You will want to be around 25-35mm in the front and 30-40mm in the rear depending on the track. For street run the same number on both ends and for a track run less sag in the rear to make it more aggressive. Feel free to hit up Dave on his channel;-)
Actually the damping is critical but you first start with getting the bike balanced which is what Dave is discussing here. He has a complete TH-cam channel you can follow for more in depth setup advice;-)
For typical street riding running the same on each end is recommended. It will provide a bike that does everything decent and is well balanced. For racing it gets a little more complicated depending on the track style and conditions;-)
if I were to aim 30mm of sag for both static and rider sag. The measurement would be 60mm of sag with the suspension fully extended to with the rider on it. Correct?
I think you are looking at it wrong. Static sag will only be around 10mm and the rider sag includes that number actually since the bike will just be compressed further when the rider mounts it. Static is measured with the bike under its own weight, and the rider sag is measured with the rider mounted. If you were to adjust to 30mm rider sag in addition to the 10mm static measurement, you would be running 40mm and will be way off track. Does this make sense?
@@lawrenceblah1563 Correct, and static would be fully extended to bike under its own weight. I always adjust my rider sag, then you can look at the static to make sure you are in the ballpark on your spring rates;-)
I wish this guy was at my local track! I've got a brand new Kawasaki ZX-14 r and I only weigh 140 pounds the thing is so stiff it wants to throw me off I wish I had somebody that knew how to dial it in better than my guessing.
Yeah, Dave is amazing with bike setup. The best place to start is to get the bike setup for your weight and then determining if your springs are in the right range for your weight. What are your rider and static sag numbers on each end?
Dave...i have had my bike set up by a specialist.. it's a mt10 Yamaha sp with electric suspension... I watched your video doing the new street fighter Ducati... I noted you adjusted it so u could lift the rear a little for static sag, I had mine set with rider sag by the suspension experts.. however I have no lift on the rear so guess I have no static sag.. is this ok which is most important static or rider.. help please for peace of mind.... thanks
Hi Kevin, it is Johny with Motool. It is hard to say not knowing what the rider sag is. Typically this would mean that the spring is too soft and it took a ton of preload to hold the rider up to get a decent rider sag number. Do you know what your rider sag number is or did the just preload the shock and send you on your way?
@@kevinmill7965 Looks like the spring is way too tight. I would think the bike would be pretty unstable at speed and overall busy. Once you do this you will likely see 8-10mm in static sag. You should be somewhere between 25-30mm with the rider mounted. 30mm would be a great starting point front and rear for a basic street setup and you can tweak it from there for better steering or better stability at speed to see what works best for you for the riding conditions;-)
@@SlackerUSA ok thanks bud I'll double check it .. so when I get 30mm ride sag if I have no static sag after still then diff weight spring required.? Iam around 103 kilos in my leathers
Hi I’ve a new Triumph speed twin.... virtually no sag , suspension barely moves when I sit on , shock on softest setting I weigh 168 lbs ? New suspension.... Hagon built to weight ? Regards Fred
@@FredWilbury Great, let me know the measurement when you are seated as well as the static sag with the bike under it's own weight. With these numbers we should be able to shine some light on the situation;-)
@@FredWilbury You are right on the money! It will sag slightly more once you get it broken in so check it every 5 hours or so and adjust back to 30 to keep things working right;-)
DumbledoreMcCracken Of course the weight will transfer rearwards when accelerating.... But your concept of ‘maximum’ is slightly incorrect. (Half the trick is moving body weight, not only side to side but forwards and backwards to achieve the desired balance and grip required.) Sag is not a measure of suspensions rate and range of ‘movement’. Its a measurement of the springs percentage of compression with the riders mass and the bikes sprung mass (entire mass that is resting ‘on’ the spring. Ie; the mass of the wheel, swingarm, brake calliper etc etc are not included in the bikes sprung mass.)
Absolutely, this is something you need to do on pretty much any bike with adjustable suspension to make sure the bike handles right for your weight and riding conditions;-)
Well, what you can do is: There is probably a spacer on top of the springs inside your front forks. Have a machinist create pairs of spacers like the stock one but in decreasing lengths. This way you can adjust the preload on your front forks also!
Nice vid, that Motool is new to me so I need to see if it's available in the UK. Lose the music though, it irritates and reduces the ability to focus on the tech being provided.
Thanks for the input, we will keep it in mind for the next vid. Also, we don't have much presence over there but we do ship to the UK. If you are interested, shoot me an email and I can get you a free shipping coupon code- johny@motool.co
I'm surprised this gizmo doesn't use a laser and a little mirror for measuring and then have it broadcast results to a phone app. Strings seem inelegant and prone to needing recalibration perhaps.
Great idea. I actually started with laser and then ultrasound. The problem is that you cannot keep them pointed at a fixed position on the body as the axle rotates and they are very susceptible to light interference from sunlight so it never gave a stable or accurate reading I could trust, it was a similar situation with ultrasound. The lasers are also horribly expensive, like $600.0 just for a good one. The retractable cable was actually key to meking it super accurate while keeping it affordable. Inelegant maybe, but also beautiful in it's simplicity after all of the testing was done;-)
That blue thing holding up the bike...Isn't it messing up the results, like he's tuning the bike, on a hill? Shouldn't there be wood or something raising the rear wheel off the ground, the same amount as that blue thing raises the front? With just the front wheel elevated like that, wouldn't the rear behave like it's heavier then it actually is? And should suspension tuning be done with a full tank of gas, or half?
Great question, It is a Baxley stand and might throw it off like 1mm but if you always use the stand it really doesn't matter because it is already considered in the setup you have picked. Consistency is key so always have a full tank of gas, wear all your gear, use the same stand, sit in the same place and do it on level ground. That way, once you find your numbers it is super easy to replicate prior setups quickly;-)
@@SlackerUSA Thank you. I asked about half tank, because I was worried, at half tank or less, and when I'm not carrying anything, the suspension would be too stiff. My bike is a Sport-Tourer. An old Goldwing I'm turning into a Cafe-Racer. But I'm keeping the side cases, because I make a living delivering things. I call this a Delivery-Racer. But by your comment, I guess I should tune my suspension for when my bike is at it's heaviest, not tune for average weight.
@@observingrogue7652 No problem, these are all good things to consider. With sport touring and ADV bikes we set them up pretty much every ride since the loads change so much. If that is not an option I would lean on the stiff side but adjusting for the current situation is always preferred;-) Bike sounds very interesting, we had a few Goldwings back in the 80's but haven't had my hands on one since. I am interested to see this beast when you get it done!
motool I never thought about adjusting frequently, for every situation. I've gotten used to the idea of just having a well-rounded setup, for nearly anything. Maybe I should save a lot and get an electronically adjustable suspension? And if I can't find an aftermarket electronic suspension for my Goldwing, then maybe I can retrofit a system from a high-end bike, or just use an Arduino & servos.
@@observingrogue7652 That is really up to you. I would spring it on the heavy side and adjust regularly but if you want to try to setup and Arduino and play with it that works too:)
He did my gsxr750 a couple years ago. Would recommend highly. He was doing tours around everywhere and I was lucky enough he was close to mine and yeah. An awesome set up
Make a note how many clicks things turn for before stopping, write these numbers down and return everything back to where they were. (This is your ‘base’ setting you can always return too if you get it wrong. Now, find out what adjustments your bikes suspension has and go watch more videos that explains why and how these adjustments should be made, and how the various adjustments should be balanced against each other. Then have a try.... All you need is, •a tape measure, •a small flat head screw driver and •a ‘C-spanner’ for your model of bike, which are cheap and your local bike dealership will be able to supply you. •And an extra set of hands to help balance your bike while you sit on it. Just leave any bolts alone unless you have a torque spanner and a manual for servicing your bike.
5:25 I know Dave is world renowned and all, but I'm not sure if everyone would be able to determine whether the bike is "topped out" while lifting 400 pounds of it with their hands XD
Actually it is pretty easy to feel it if you have the strength to lift it. For the fork you could always use a head lift stand or a side stand or buddy will do;-)
motool Yeah but it does lift it for few milimeters, which is significat enough to be noticeable in measurements. Why weren't both rear and front stand used?
it is not significant honestly, Dave is hands down the best tuner I have ever met and he is super picky. If he thought it was an issue, he wouldn't use the Baxley stand. The front tire being 3mm off the ground does not change the measurement by 3mm, it is a fraction of a millimeter. If you feel it is necessary to use two stands that is fine but it is overkill if you ask me. We are measuring in millimeters not tenths or hundredths. The key is to always do it the same and to know your numbers.
Didn't understand half of that. You basically just maxed out the preload. And when you did the front it visibly got lower but you said it was taller...proper confusing
Hi Simon .Not sure why you think the front of the bike got lower. I looked and could not see any movement, but you wont really see a 6 mm change from that distance, in either direction. Adding preload means you are compressing the spring and that the bike's own weight will therefore have less of an effect on the travel of the suspension - hence it sits higher when preload is added. Suspension only has a certain amount of travel so you want the weight of the bike, and you, to only take up a certain amount of that travel. (I'm not an expert, but hope that helps)
WhySoSerious ? Hi there, if you’re compressing the spring you’re making it shorter, by definition. So I don’t understand how this makes the front end sit up unless you’re actually putting tension into the spring to make it stiffer which would make it taller.
Definitely not just a tape measure. It reads everything in real-time and you can use your phone as a remote display and also record all of your measurements into your setup notes in the app. Shockwiz is a totally different concept and only works on air suspension and does not measure anything. I see some value in measuring at the shock but it is more accurate measuring at the axle and it gives you way more granularity for adjustment. I do plan on another product in the MTB space that is probably more in line with your thinking but it is a couple years out still.
So dealers have no right to offer test rides? OR to allow a new buyer to ride his new unmeasured sag motorcycle home? Just saying is all Dave's "no right to ride the bike" seems just a tad bit fanatatical? Maybe should be somehow rephrased (6 years later lol) as "no right to expect an unmeasured motorcycle to be right or as safe as it should be to ride".....something along those lines perhaps...its what I dont care for about Dave....a bit hard to take sometimes
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This guy tuned/dialed in my stock suspension on my '08 KTM Super Duke 990 at a track day at Sonoma Raceway. It took him maybe 2 minutes. Totally transformed the bike and I was easily 5 seconds faster a lap the next session. I was blown away by the stability. BEST $20 I EVER SPENT.
No doubt, Dave is amazing! Once you have ridden a properly setup bike you can never go back:)
@@SlackerUSAHear hear! Even with just the correct rear preload adjustment (can't touch anything else) it transformed the handling!
@@233kosta Awesome, it is amazing what a quick adjustment can do. Cheers!
You gotta love years of experience offered so graciously. Thanks for taking the time to make this video!
Yep, Dave is one in a million! Thanks for watching;-)
Agreed. Nothing more annoying than a person with all that knowledge surrounded by open ears who won't share his years of experience.
I just had my Ninja 300’s suspension set up by Dave. I learned so much in just 10 min of speaking to him and watching him work. He’s a Wizard, I tell ya!
There is no question about it!
Interesting tool, especially when there is no assistant with a tape measure around :) I work as mechanical engineer at Ohlins Racing, and can vouch for his statement that sag adjustment is the very first step that should be done if you want to get the most performance out of your suspension(and ultimately faster lap times). There also some misconseptions out there what the preload does. Some people believe that the spring will become stiffer by adding preload, but that is not the case. Preload only changes the sag or "ride height", that's all it does. The spring has the same spring rate (Newton/mm) throughout the whole stroke (unless you have progressive springs, which is not very common on sport bikes).
Hi Mikael,
Good point, thank you for the input! I think alot of people just don't have enough time to learn about this stuff so it is easy for others to spread bad information. We need more people like you that are willing to add to the conversation rather than start their own! If you see Chris Nilsson (Stockholm) if he is back from paternity leave!
@@SlackerUSA Ahh, so you know Cristopher? I wouldn't say I know him very well, since we never have worked in the same department, but I have talked to him briefly. I'm with the MC OEM dept. since 2013, and he is with the marketing dept. in the north end of the Ohlins building. I will tell him you said hi next time I see him :) And regarding suspension setup, and analyzing/solving mysterious chassis behavior, there is a lot more to be said. Although I've worked at Ohlins for more than 8 years, I still learn new things almost daily, and there is always things to improve, so I have never seen myself as an "expert". But I'm willing to share my accumulated knowledge to anyone who is interested. It's also in the best interest of Ohlins that our customers knows what to do with all the knobs and dials, so they make full use of their investment.
@@mikaeljonsson2078 Yep, we met a few years ago at the Anaheim Supercross and he is a great guy! Thank you for the input, you are welcome here any time;-)
Mikael Jonsson what about just regular street riding? Work ,home ,school?
But if F=Kx, doesn't that mean that as you compress the spring (more preload), then the minimum force to compress the spring further, is now higher? That's why commoners say it is now "stiffer", because it is?
Thanks Mr Moss..., you've got the best technical content out there...
Love this...getting ready for a track day and this is priceless. Thank you sir.
Absolutely, I think the results will speak for themselves. Cheers!
Good luck Always MR Moss .. appreciate your work ..
Really useful Info Dave. Thanks mate! Will be using the Motool as soon as I have it. Best part is I can use it by myself whenever required.
Have this tool . It is a must have.
Just had my wife get me one if these for Christmas. Awesome device! Super easy to use.
Right on, thank you for your support! Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions;-)
How much is it?
xxMegaHDxx They run $150 for Slacker and $25 for the street kit. We sell them as a bundle on our site. If you are interested email me and I can get you a discount code- johny@motool.co
This is just what I needed to set up the suspension on my 2003 Vmax by myself.
Perfect, glad it helps out!
Get well soon Dave!
I bought one a couple years ago, already used it on a few bikes, it's awesome!
Now you've done it john dave is the man
Yep, a great guy and straight up genius on street setup. We will be working together closely moving forward to educate riders on the importance of setup for both performance and safety.
You know it I'm a huge fan of dave he will agree
I’m silly, first track day at Queensland race track, I need help setting up my 07 Blade, exciting
I like this channel. Highly informative
Finally saw this vid the other day. My Motool V2 is on the way. Dave, thanks for this cool information. I've been going crazy trying to setup my R1M.
Now I don't have to explain what to measure and what to do.
This guy is the best..
Master of his domain.
Thank you so much for the informative videos 🙏🏻👍🏻
i crave for such wisdom for offroad bikes
It is actually very similar, we also have some off-road videos and will be adding more once I get some time. Thanks for stopping by!
motool ok but all of them are just about using slacker...which I use for a long time already...
Hey dave 2007 r6 when i press down the front end. Im gettin a crunch or smal clunk noise. What could it be ? Possible stem bearing adjustment? Or fork suspension issue? Thanks
4:45 what are those 2 other "things" at bottom of cowl? I'm thinking maybe quick connects of sorts...?
Thanks
Hey Dave! I have a 2019 Yamaha R3 that I just bought as my first motorcycle (other than dirtbikes). I am having a hard time getting the rear spring preload set to a decent amount. I have played with settings 3 through the softest/less compressed setting but the ride is pretty firm on the cracks in the road. At one point I had to stand up yesterday because it felt like I could get bucked off. I weigh less than most riders (150 lbs). Also, I have the dunlop sportmax gpr 300f tires on it that are brand new. I am running 29 psi in the front and 36 psi rear like it says on the swingarm. Also, I thought it was odd, but I am only getting around 15% compression of the rear spring when I sit on it and it is set on the weakest setting. I also do not see any static sag when I pick the bike up on the weakest setting or any setting for that matter.
If you have no static its too much pre load! I push my rear down let it rebound then lift up to check for sag. Also that tire pressure is way too high!! Mine says the same but 36 is a lot & will only get higher the more you ride from heat. Friction makes heat plus road temp! As seasons change you'll need to adjust the psi, where i live in the south psi can increase by about 10 with aggressive driving in the summer. Ive been riding on decent days recently about 28 & 30 psi, which only increases, the warmer the air temp the warmer the road & the more increase your tire pressure will have! In warmer weather & summer I'll drop to 26 & 28 & maybe more. All bikes & all tires are different! I weigh not much more than you & my preload is almost at the maximum adjustment, if you have too take it to the max to get that static sag you need & take out some tire pressure! That will for sure make a difference! The roads around here can be awful so i fight the same thing. If you have been to the softest setting with no relief that should tell you tires are all thats left. 29-30 psi in the rear is absolutely plenty! Some run a lot less than that, youll have to experiment & see what you like. If you're at 36 & you ride a few hours you may be at 40psi or even more which would be a hard tire. Hope this can help you & you get it straightened out. If you don't believe me just listen to what this guy says about tires & pressure, anyone that knows will say the same! Good luck, ride safe!
Good info, that’s why I always check cold and hot tire pressure. It gives you a good reference of a starting point, if do it a lot you will know the about start pressure. I street ride and if its 95 degrees out side I know to set cold tires at around 28, when I ride I know it will end up around 35-36. Just s trick a buddy taught me many moons ago.
For an even more accurate reading, you can put a small block of wood under rear tire to match the front wheel's chock stand height, otherwise your bike is at at a slight upright angle during all your measurements.
Good tip, as long as you always do it the same you are good. Consistency is key;-)
what spring hardness should be mounted close to the original? maybe a little harder. motorcycle is gsxr 600 k4. I mean the front suspension.I can't find the hardness of the original spring anywhere
Great video, ill def. Get it when im confident in messing with the suspension....if you dont mind me asking, where can i get those clips for the D ring fasteners?
Alex B. Do you mean the loops to hook the cable to?
Alex B. Yes, it is an adapter attached with a Velcro cinch strap. We have everything on the site if you want to take a look- motool.co
Where is this guy at? I could really use his help🙏! Dude has a lot of knowledge👍
Mark Farnsworth he can help you set up everything for you & your Biking needs over his Facebook Account,i think his FB details are in the Descriptions under most of his YT vids ✊💨✌✊💨 hope this helps ??? Keep it Pinned & Rubber side up ✌️
Do I need to completely lift the front and rear suspension with the well of the ground or just lift it a little with my hands? How do I know if I’m lifting it too much or too little?
You just need to top the suspension out, you do not need to lift the tires off the ground;-).
I told the shop i wanted the suspension adjusted to my weight. And he said ill just use the clickers , ride it then come back if you need it. And soon as i left the shop i could feel the difference. And it wasnt a good difference. The front is too soft now. Almost to the point where front of the bike turns but the read doesnt follow. Feels its slipping under me when i lean the bike. What kind of settings do you recommend for a 2007 zx6r street bike sag & suspension settings that has had its forks worked on a season ago (last year). since i live upstate NY and bike is only barely ridden 5 months .
You should email Dave Moss directly. You can check out his website davemosstuning dot com - he can do all your suspension setup via skype! I've met him several times IRL and he's the best!!!
I was wondering, if I want to measure the dynamic sag for my pre load, do I have to worry about the compression settings, because if there is a lot of compression rebound, the results I measure will be different from the results with no compression rebound, I suppose.
I say it is always good to double check it if you make any major damper adjustments as it will affect where it settles;-)
Great info on how to get the numbers...
But NOW, what do we DO with them..??
How do we come back and find the setting that is best for US individually? And how do we know if the front and rear are 'level' with each other?
Start in the middle and work either direction to find your sweet spot. A balanced bike would be something like 30mm in the front and 30mm in the rear for street. From there you can try some different settings to find what works best for you.
Take a peek at this one- th-cam.com/video/7Br-LcnCOWs/w-d-xo.html
Hello Dave, I want to thank you very much for all the videos and trying to help us riders, especially they are good for me, as I keep trying to figure this out!!! :) (happy face doesn't work on TH-cam) regardless, I have the measurement with myself on it, then to the same line/place, measure without myself, then again when I top out the shock. have I got it by---I just get a mental block, have learning disabilities- averaging the three??? but if that's so, then do I set the free sag to the average number? I hope that isn't a dumb question. I'm trying and I have nobody, (live with my dogs) to help me figure it. Thank you again. Average OF the three I should have wrote.
liveatvictoria This is Johny with Motool. Typically we set the rider sag and then look at the static. Using the average is a good way to do it, the biggest thing is always do it the same. Consistency is key to making gains in bike setup;-)
@@SlackerUSAThank you very much. I have a 2017 GSX-R1000R, really should know at least some of this by now, but used to have a person helped and my last bike was a 1987 Honda CBR1000F Hurricane, which had spring shocks, with very minimal adjustment availability. Now to try and learn the rebound and compression settings. Won't mess with it till I understand better. Thank you again.
@@liveatvictoria6853 No problem, it is confusing for everyone at first. As long as you pick a little bit up here and there you will get there! Happy New Years!
@@SlackerUSAThanks, and Happy New Years to you as well!!
Do you make the stand that hold the bike or can find commercially thanks and God bless.
This is made by Baxley and are excellent quality- www.baxleycompanies.com/
Hi Dave, which front wheel stand are you using in this video ?
This is a Baxley sport chalk;-)
Wish he declares the sag as percentages of total travel so we can adapt it to other type of bikes.
does the suspension temperatur effect the measurements? I mean they transfer kinetic energy into heat.
It does affect the damping as the fluid gets hotter and thinner. It will only slightly affect the sag due to the damping being a little softer but nothing major.
Would love to know what front wheel chock he's using cause its rock solid
heykat18 it is a Bailey, the are excellent!
Hi Dave, What range should the front be set at?
This is Johny, typically 25-35mm depending on the track. We do have more specific videos here from Dave and you can find recommended setting in our user guides and Service Assistant App.
I understand what is all about but as for me I am not going on track and I do not need a specific set-up for a specific track, what I will like to know what is the balanced set-up and what this set-up of sag will do to my driving? Can I have some tips?
For general street riding I would shoot for 30mm on both ends. It will allow the bike to do everything pretty good and be very predictable as opposed to a race setup that would be geared towards a particular track and focus on doing one or two things extremely well and sacrificing in other areas.
@@SlackerUSA ..thanx, you got exactly my point but 30mm on front is not too much soft? As far as I understood should be less than back, let say 30mm back, 20mm front, but what I also will like to understand more, other than compression and dumping (which are essential the most) how the bike will react on front with the 20 or 30 mm sag? How the back will react with 30 or 20mm sag? I get how the bike work in breaking and acceleration but how it effect it?
@@robertking1032 It is a matter of what you like but generally I would start flat like 30 on both ends or 25 on both ends. To adjust the stiffness, that is all dampers, sag set the bikes posture and you do not use the springs to adjust the stiffness or prevent bottoming typically. As far as balance, having the front lower than the rear will make it turn sharper but be less stable at speed. If the rear sits lower it will be more stable at speed but will not steer very well. Racers make a compromise for turn or speed, for typical street riders you want a balanced, flat bike typically. The best way to find out is set it up and try tweaking it to find what you like. No rider is the same;-)
Help me out here, do I make the tension and compression harder or softer before I set the preload?
I don't make any adjustments to damping prior to taking the measurement. The key is consistency so just make sure you always follow the same routine;-)
@@SlackerUSA thank you, do you know if there are motool suppliers in south africa?
@@ringsting The only one I know is www.mirivi.co.za/ but they haven't ordered in quite a while so I doubt they have stock. We can ship it to you for about $25.00 and if you use code VIP10 that will get you 10% off to help cover shipping. Shoot me an email if you have questions- johny@motool.co
Whats a good sag setting front n back on a 2012 gsxr 750 track bike on dlop slicks, stock suspension, stock geometery,185lb. Old rider but i "was" an expert racer, 8 year out of the game.
I would start at 30mm both ends for the most balanced bike. You can go a little more in the front if you want tighter steering but this would be a good starting place for you and you can experiment from there to find what you like best;-)
@@SlackerUSA I will try it at this weeks track day
I've just bought the slacker and I'm a bit confused to be honest , when I lift the back of the bike to find static sag I'm getting a reading of 26mm , but when I zero it and sit on bike to get rider sag I'm getting 24/25 mm so do I take preload of or put preload on . thanks for any help
You need to start with the tool at zero with the suspension unloaded. I know Dave starts with the tool at zero with the bike under it's own weight here, but he likes to add and subtract and it is not necessary. With the bike under it's own weight, simply put the tool in auto zero and lift the bike until the suspension tops out. Then all your measurements are in real-time. By the sounds of it you likely have way too much sag and are seeing a static of 26mm plus 25mm (51mm) you are reading when you sit on it. Make sure the tool is zeroed out with the suspension fully unloaded and then let me know what the measurements are;-)
@@SlackerUSA fantastic , I've now got a static sag of 10mm ( slacker zeroed out bike upright and me lifting the rear end ). after some adjustments and when I'm on the bike with it under my weight I've got 28mm ( bike upright and slacker zeroed out and then me on it ). So is this a rider sag of 38 mm . Do you add the to figures together ?. Thanks for any help . Dylan .
@@DylanGSXR You are right on the money! No need to add, this is showing you 10mm with the bike under it's own weight and 28mm with you mounted. No need for math as it is measuring from where the shock topped out when you placed it in auto zero. Good work;-)
@@SlackerUSA great , much appreciated . kind regards Dylan
@@DylanGSXR You got it, keep it dialed!
Dave, I have a 2017 Yamaha FZ-10. I weigh 161 pounds with all gear. What should my suspension settings be?
Dave will not get this as this is posted under the Motool channel. You will want to be around 25-35mm in the front and 30-40mm in the rear depending on the track. For street run the same number on both ends and for a track run less sag in the rear to make it more aggressive. Feel free to hit up Dave on his channel;-)
Thank you for the video! You make no mention of rebound and compression damping at all. Do you not feel these are important?
Actually the damping is critical but you first start with getting the bike balanced which is what Dave is discussing here. He has a complete TH-cam channel you can follow for more in depth setup advice;-)
motool give us the link please 🙏🏻
The video is about setting sag, not damping. Damping is the next step and is very important, just not covered here.
@@massieVtec For advanced setup tips you should follow Dave's channel- th-cam.com/users/CatalystReactionSBW
Should the sag be the same mm at the frond as the rear?
For typical street riding running the same on each end is recommended. It will provide a bike that does everything decent and is well balanced. For racing it gets a little more complicated depending on the track style and conditions;-)
Dave my weight 194 pounds, What should my suspension settings be? My Bike Suzuki GSXR1000 2007.
WHERE can I get one of those stands? Or the name of the stand?
These are made by Baxley and they rule:) www.baxleycompanies.com/
if I were to aim 30mm of sag for both static and rider sag. The measurement would be 60mm of sag with the suspension fully extended to with the rider on it. Correct?
I think you are looking at it wrong. Static sag will only be around 10mm and the rider sag includes that number actually since the bike will just be compressed further when the rider mounts it. Static is measured with the bike under its own weight, and the rider sag is measured with the rider mounted. If you were to adjust to 30mm rider sag in addition to the 10mm static measurement, you would be running 40mm and will be way off track. Does this make sense?
@@SlackerUSA so when I set up my sag I would just measure from suspension fully extended to with me on it? Right?
@@lawrenceblah1563 Correct, and static would be fully extended to bike under its own weight. I always adjust my rider sag, then you can look at the static to make sure you are in the ballpark on your spring rates;-)
@@SlackerUSA thanx for the info!
I wish this guy was at my local track! I've got a brand new Kawasaki ZX-14 r and I only weigh 140 pounds the thing is so stiff it wants to throw me off I wish I had somebody that knew how to dial it in better than my guessing.
Yeah, Dave is amazing with bike setup. The best place to start is to get the bike setup for your weight and then determining if your springs are in the right range for your weight. What are your rider and static sag numbers on each end?
Dave...i have had my bike set up by a specialist.. it's a mt10 Yamaha sp with electric suspension... I watched your video doing the new street fighter Ducati... I noted you adjusted it so u could lift the rear a little for static sag, I had mine set with rider sag by the suspension experts.. however I have no lift on the rear so guess I have no static sag.. is this ok which is most important static or rider.. help please for peace of mind.... thanks
Hi Kevin, it is Johny with Motool. It is hard to say not knowing what the rider sag is. Typically this would mean that the spring is too soft and it took a ton of preload to hold the rider up to get a decent rider sag number. Do you know what your rider sag number is or did the just preload the shock and send you on your way?
@@SlackerUSA rider sag set approx 20mm
@@kevinmill7965 Looks like the spring is way too tight. I would think the bike would be pretty unstable at speed and overall busy. Once you do this you will likely see 8-10mm in static sag. You should be somewhere between 25-30mm with the rider mounted. 30mm would be a great starting point front and rear for a basic street setup and you can tweak it from there for better steering or better stability at speed to see what works best for you for the riding conditions;-)
@@SlackerUSA ok thanks bud I'll double check it .. so when I get 30mm ride sag if I have no static sag after still then diff weight spring required.? Iam around 103 kilos in my leathers
@@kevinmill7965 Correct, if you still have no static sag the spring is too soft for you;-)
Hi I’ve a new Triumph speed twin.... virtually no sag , suspension barely moves when I sit on , shock on softest setting I weigh 168 lbs ? New suspension.... Hagon built to weight ? Regards Fred
Hi Fred, what is the actual sag measurement when you sit on the bike?
Hello Dave ...thanks for your reply I’ll try and get my other help me to get the measurements....Fred
@@FredWilbury Great, let me know the measurement when you are seated as well as the static sag with the bike under it's own weight. With these numbers we should be able to shine some light on the situation;-)
motool ....Hi Dave ..... static sag 5mm.....rider sag 30mm ..... regards Fred ....
@@FredWilbury You are right on the money! It will sag slightly more once you get it broken in so check it every 5 hours or so and adjust back to 30 to keep things working right;-)
When accelerating, more than the maximum weight will be in the back (more than maximum sag),
DumbledoreMcCracken
Of course the weight will transfer rearwards when accelerating.... But your concept of ‘maximum’ is slightly incorrect.
(Half the trick is moving body weight, not only side to side but forwards and backwards to achieve the desired balance and grip required.)
Sag is not a measure of suspensions rate and range of ‘movement’. Its a measurement of the springs percentage of compression with the riders mass and the bikes sprung mass (entire mass that is resting ‘on’ the spring. Ie; the mass of the wheel, swingarm, brake calliper etc etc are not included in the bikes sprung mass.)
Does this apply to the newest 2018-19 Super bikes???
Absolutely, this is something you need to do on pretty much any bike with adjustable suspension to make sure the bike handles right for your weight and riding conditions;-)
@@SlackerUSA Thank you. Great stuff
NOBODY Else talks about this....
@@keionchase2144 Not a problem, you will be so much better off with this little bit of knowledge, cheers!
here i am watching this and only have an fz-07 with only a rear preload adjustment.
Well, what you can do is: There is probably a spacer on top of the springs inside your front forks. Have a machinist create pairs of spacers like the stock one but in decreasing lengths. This way you can adjust the preload on your front forks also!
All I could think the whole video is that's a good looking bike
Dave likes electronic beats... 11:46 "we know the static is 24" HEEYYY!!
what kind of bike chock is that?
It is a Baxley, they are excellent for working with the bike.
Nice vid, that Motool is new to me so I need to see if it's available in the UK. Lose the music though, it irritates and reduces the ability to focus on the tech being provided.
Thanks for the input, we will keep it in mind for the next vid. Also, we don't have much presence over there but we do ship to the UK. If you are interested, shoot me an email and I can get you a free shipping coupon code- johny@motool.co
motool thought the music was fine
Do anyone got the coupon code?
Just enter code 20off below the cart and hit "Apply" before you head to checkout;-)
I'm surprised this gizmo doesn't use a laser and a little mirror for measuring and then have it broadcast results to a phone app. Strings seem inelegant and prone to needing recalibration perhaps.
Great idea. I actually started with laser and then ultrasound. The problem is that you cannot keep them pointed at a fixed position on the body as the axle rotates and they are very susceptible to light interference from sunlight so it never gave a stable or accurate reading I could trust, it was a similar situation with ultrasound. The lasers are also horribly expensive, like $600.0 just for a good one. The retractable cable was actually key to meking it super accurate while keeping it affordable. Inelegant maybe, but also beautiful in it's simplicity after all of the testing was done;-)
I'm riding a 2006 kawasaki 636
That blue thing holding up the bike...Isn't it messing up the results, like he's tuning the bike, on a hill? Shouldn't there be wood or something raising the rear wheel off the ground, the same amount as that blue thing raises the front? With just the front wheel elevated like that, wouldn't the rear behave like it's heavier then it actually is? And should suspension tuning be done with a full tank of gas, or half?
Great question, It is a Baxley stand and might throw it off like 1mm but if you always use the stand it really doesn't matter because it is already considered in the setup you have picked. Consistency is key so always have a full tank of gas, wear all your gear, use the same stand, sit in the same place and do it on level ground. That way, once you find your numbers it is super easy to replicate prior setups quickly;-)
@@SlackerUSA
Thank you. I asked about half tank, because I was worried, at half tank or less, and when I'm not carrying anything, the suspension would be too stiff. My bike is a Sport-Tourer. An old Goldwing I'm turning into a Cafe-Racer. But I'm keeping the side cases, because I make a living delivering things. I call this a Delivery-Racer. But by your comment, I guess I should tune my suspension for when my bike is at it's heaviest, not tune for average weight.
@@observingrogue7652 No problem, these are all good things to consider. With sport touring and ADV bikes we set them up pretty much every ride since the loads change so much. If that is not an option I would lean on the stiff side but adjusting for the current situation is always preferred;-) Bike sounds very interesting, we had a few Goldwings back in the 80's but haven't had my hands on one since. I am interested to see this beast when you get it done!
motool
I never thought about adjusting frequently, for every situation. I've gotten used to the idea of just having a well-rounded setup, for nearly anything. Maybe I should save a lot and get an electronically adjustable suspension? And if I can't find an aftermarket electronic suspension for my Goldwing, then maybe I can retrofit a system from a high-end bike, or just use an Arduino & servos.
@@observingrogue7652 That is really up to you. I would spring it on the heavy side and adjust regularly but if you want to try to setup and Arduino and play with it that works too:)
How the hell do I cancel my account? I can’t find the link.
This is a public channel, not TH-cam. You need to ask them about deleting an account, that is not anything we are responsible for.
If you are talking about Daves channel you need to go to that channel, this is Motool.
Dave just cost me $175 lol
He seems to have a way of doing that:)
So that tool is $175?
Can u just adjust my bike for
Me please?
He did my gsxr750 a couple years ago. Would recommend highly. He was doing tours around everywhere and I was lucky enough he was close to mine and yeah. An awesome set up
Make a note how many clicks things turn for before stopping, write these numbers down and return everything back to where they were. (This is your ‘base’ setting you can always return too if you get it wrong. Now, find out what adjustments your bikes suspension has and go watch more videos that explains why and how these adjustments should be made, and how the various adjustments should be balanced against each other.
Then have a try....
All you need is,
•a tape measure,
•a small flat head screw driver and
•a ‘C-spanner’ for your model of bike, which are cheap and your local bike dealership will be able to supply you.
•And an extra set of hands to help balance your bike while you sit on it.
Just leave any bolts alone unless you have a torque spanner and a manual for servicing your bike.
5:25 I know Dave is world renowned and all, but I'm not sure if everyone would be able to determine whether the bike is "topped out" while lifting 400 pounds of it with their hands XD
Actually it is pretty easy to feel it if you have the strength to lift it. For the fork you could always use a head lift stand or a side stand or buddy will do;-)
13:48, Why you gotta put that kind of pressure on me, Dave? 😰
Why is only one side on stand, but trying to measure difference between front and back...
Because you have to sit on the bike to take the measurement. It is just there to hold the bike up not keep it off the ground.
motool Yeah but it does lift it for few milimeters, which is significat enough to be noticeable in measurements. Why weren't both rear and front stand used?
it is not significant honestly, Dave is hands down the best tuner I have ever met and he is super picky. If he thought it was an issue, he wouldn't use the Baxley stand. The front tire being 3mm off the ground does not change the measurement by 3mm, it is a fraction of a millimeter. If you feel it is necessary to use two stands that is fine but it is overkill if you ask me. We are measuring in millimeters not tenths or hundredths. The key is to always do it the same and to know your numbers.
motool Okay thanks :)
My head exploded
Didn't understand half of that. You basically just maxed out the preload. And when you did the front it visibly got lower but you said it was taller...proper confusing
Hi Simon .Not sure why you think the front of the bike got lower. I looked and could not see any movement, but you wont really see a 6 mm change from that distance, in either direction. Adding preload means you are compressing the spring and that the bike's own weight will therefore have less of an effect on the travel of the suspension - hence it sits higher when preload is added. Suspension only has a certain amount of travel so you want the weight of the bike, and you, to only take up a certain amount of that travel. (I'm not an expert, but hope that helps)
WhySoSerious ? Hi there, if you’re compressing the spring you’re making it shorter, by definition. So I don’t understand how this makes the front end sit up unless you’re actually putting tension into the spring to make it stiffer which would make it taller.
Not confusing at all
wait a second...wat? 159$ for electronic measuring tape O_o What about something similar to Quarq ShockWiz?
Definitely not just a tape measure. It reads everything in real-time and you can use your phone as a remote display and also record all of your measurements into your setup notes in the app. Shockwiz is a totally different concept and only works on air suspension and does not measure anything. I see some value in measuring at the shock but it is more accurate measuring at the axle and it gives you way more granularity for adjustment. I do plan on another product in the MTB space that is probably more in line with your thinking but it is a couple years out still.
missed a trick not have an affiliate to that tool lol
So dealers have no right to offer test rides? OR to allow a new buyer to ride his new unmeasured sag motorcycle home? Just saying is all Dave's "no right to ride the bike" seems just a tad bit fanatatical? Maybe should be somehow rephrased (6 years later lol) as "no right to expect an unmeasured motorcycle to be right or as safe as it should be to ride".....something along those lines perhaps...its what I dont care for about Dave....a bit hard to take sometimes
Great vid , 👍😉 just lose the whiny background music 🙄
Great information but please lose the fucked up music