@@AriH211 great vid. One more thing i wonder. If you increase damping, (by turning the knob to +) does that make the suspension feel softer? As in compressing further/compressing faster. I can’t wrap my head around it
@@HeyAddieImTojo depending if you mean compression damping or rebound damping? Compression is hard/soft rebound is slow/fast. Maybe + could be harder. For compression. Don't get any of these mixed up with pre load
Not sure preload was explained clearly. It can't make the spring harder or stiffer; only the thickness and length of metal can affect spring rate. Higher preload may increase the amount of weight needed to commence movement, but after that preload has no effect. If I apply x Kilos of downforce, surely the spring will be at a certain compression regardless of preload? So surely preload affects only ride height and which part of the shock stroke gets used?
This video in conjunction with a video on measuring and adjusting motorcycle suspension, on a......*ahem* different channel with a suspiciously similar looking guy, are everything you need to get into properly setting up a bike for a specific rider. An often overlooked part of riding by the average rider. Great job, please keep these coming!
The syringe is a good example. I usually give the example of one of those door struts, since I'm pretty sure everyone has used them. On heavy doors, they are hydraulic, just like suspension dampers. They slow the movement of the door closing, and the harder / faster you try to close the door, the more you'll feel the resistance. They're a bit different, since they are one-way compression dampers (you can open the door quickly, but can't slam it shut).
beautiful! Been so confused about pre-load for a while until I saw this video. Nobody else mentioned that the amount of suspension travel is not the same as the amount the spring can compress.
There is no correct setting. It depends on what bike you ride, how long since the suspension was serviced, how heavy you are, how your weight is distributed on the bike, any additional weight such as luggage or pillion, even tyre pressure. Generally speaking, if you can't get the sag numbers, or are at the maximum adjustment to get the number, you need to replace the springs. You can set rebound damping by compressing the forks and letting them return to the natural position and adjusting flow so the forks extend as quickly as possible, without topping out and going back down. It is worth the fifty bucks or so to get a professional setup if you don't know how to do it yourself.
@@theresanothersteve True, but that's what formulas are for; like the one he used for the sag setting. From there you can adjust till it feels just right.
As an engineer, it warms my heart to see damping correctly used. I bet you also know that counter-steering works at ALL speeds, not just above some “magic” speed. 😁
It does work at all speed. People often think it as counter steering to where the bike goes, it actually is giving a counter force to where the bike leans. The bike goes to same direction where it leans. However, At low speed, there’s not enough momentum to hold the bike to from gravity. So people counter steer against the bike from falling to the ground, which looks like steering to where the bike goes. If people have ever practiced static balance when the bike isn’t moving forward at all for enduro riding they will know better. Counter steer is working for the bike’s leaning and that’s not exactly the same as the direction the bike goes.
@@timmychen6 Correct. People used to cars where the steering directly controls the rate of turn have a hard time understanding countersteering. The also have a hard time learning to fly an airplane as airplane physics is nearly identical to motorcycle physics. In an airplane, turning the control wheel simply changes the angle of bank of the airplane, it doesn’t directly initiate a turn. The turn is initiated by the bank of the airplane. So, unlike a car where you turn the wheel a certain amount and then hold it steady for the duration of the turn. If you hold the control wheel in an airplane in a fixed position, you will do an aileron roll and not a turn. You turn the control wheel to establish a certain bank angle and then you return it to center for the duration of the turn. You then turn it the opposite direction to remove the bank angle and thus stop the turn. So, even though you don’t turn the airplane wheel the opposite direction as with a motorcycle, you are using the control to establish an angle of bank just as a motorcycle establishes an angle of lean.
That was a nice vocabulary lesson. Most of the riders I know just need to know how to properly set up their suspension for their weight and adjust for a passenger or luggage, I was really hoping you get more into those weeds. Next video?
They are dampeners though. The word dampeners has been used to mean what is being called "dampers" in this video since literally before the existence of the automobile (and the word dampen, as in to lower the impact/strength of something, has had that definition even longer, before Descartes said "I think therefore I am")
I need a part 2 that covers 'understanding and using damper settings' pretty please. This one happens to end perfectly after covering exactly what I already knew. Great video covering the basics in a clear way however. I'm sure it will help a ton of people.
Actually, I know a bit more. I understand how to set compression, more or less. It's rebound that throws me for a loop, don't really know how to think about it let alone build intuition around it. Also 'slow' vs 'fast' rebound and compression is one of those things I nod my head to while someone explains it, but it doesn't really click with a deeper understanding. High frequency vs. low frequency bumps, yadda-yadda, but how does that translate into feel or knowing the right settings?
Awesome as always !! Just a suggestion on a follow up future video if you would please. How to read your tires so you know what you suspension is doing or not doing. My connie 14 tires were a little choppy last change. Nobody seems to know . Cheers!!
As a 225 pound rider I'm used to being undersprung on stock suspension. I typically find that the correct (i.e. stiffer) springs give both proper sag figures *and* a more compliant ride on bumpy roads. Whoever said "there's no such thing as a bad motorcycle ride" never did Carmel Valley Road on a bike with almost zero rear free sag. That is an extreme beating, and the spine will remind you for weeks!
Ok I will have to watch it several times but I already can tell this is one of the best content I have found on this regard. Love the way you easily explain it due to English not being my first lenguage
Great work buddy.. it would be great if you can make a follow-up video explaining how set sag , preload and basic of damping.. cheers for the awesome work. Regards to Zack and team Revzilla😀😀
Very soothing and proper explanation bro,well done 👏 I fully overstand what suspension means now and i didn't know yesterday or all the years before....👏👏👏
Great video. Clear explanation of how things work however yes, I will probably have to watch it again and again for it to all sink in. I do have a great reference to draw on👍
Great vid and thanks for going over this subject. I needed it explained just like you did. Now, would you please make a video showing us how to actually set up the bike? It would be appreciated.
Thanks so much for making this one Zack, I hope a fork strip down video is coming? I’m a tall and heavy rider, so find most stock suspension too soft. After paying an eye-watering amount for a proper suspension setup, I decided I’d learn to do suspension work myself. I found it was hard to find all the info you need clearly explained, and it took a lot of research, but once you’ve got over that and got a couple extra tools, suspension work is really easy, if a little time consuming and messy. Sure proper suspension shops are a must if you’re hitting the track, but for most of us just an online spring rate calculator and a bit of trial and error will do wonders for your bike pretty cheaply, especially if you’re +/- the “average weight” they designed your bike for. I’m now a huge advocate of riders learning to service their own forks and if possible shocks. You can massively improve the handling of your bike pretty cheaply and save yourself a bunch of money servicing your own forks, and it’s an extra thing to be aware of when buying a used bike! Old and cracked seals... eh not too bad, cheap to replace; messed up stantions... run!
What a great and fantastic article and explained so well. Thank you. So let me get this straight and clear. As it has always been explained to me that the TOTAL SAG on a motorcycle was to be set at 30% of the TOTAL SUSPENSION travel. I find out my total travel from the manual. In this case 2018 KLR 7.28" or 185mm. (Old method of "30%" would be 2.18" or 55.5mm) Your method: The RIDER SAG is 1/4 of total travel 1.82" or 46mm. The FREE SAG is 1/3 of the RIDER SAG value above 0.61" or 15mm. So my new Measured sag with gear and me should be 1.82" + 0.61" = 2.43" or 62mm. So that is 33.5% of TOTAL SUSPENSION TRAVEL. Like your article says 1/3 (33%) of the available travel. I had never heard of this "1/4 + 1/3 of 1/4" method before and will have to check it out. THANKS AGAIN!
I have to take exception to your explanation of preload. It does not modify the spring rate. If your weight compresses a spring by (let's say) 25mm, adding preload does not change that. If you have 25mm of preload you will still compress the spring 25mm, so with the preload the spring will be compressed a total of 50mm. It will not be any stiffer because of the preload.
This is a terminology problem that vexes engineers when people try to describe what they're feeling using a normal everyday vocabulary. Let's say it takes 200 pounds (90 kg) to move your imaginary shock spring that 25mm (1 inch). With no preload (the spring fully released to free length) a 200 lb rider will sit on the bike and it will move, or sag, 25mm which the rider will easily feel (a 400 lb rider will move it 50mm). Now let's add your 25mm of preload which means we'll load the shock spring with 200 pounds of force before the rider ever gets on the bike. When the rider does it won't move at all, not even 1mm. It won't sag 25mm because it has "pre-sagged" because we "pre-loaded" it with 200 pounds. While the spring rate has not changed, the amount of force required to move the shock 25mm has doubled to 400 lbs / 180 kg (a 400 lb rider will move it 25mm). Every motorcyclist on the planet will notice that, even Quartararo who will say to his engineer, in English, "the shock is stiffer." As you accurately state the spring itself is not stiffer, but the shock, as an assembly, IS stiffer because it now takes twice the force to make it move the same 25mm. Sometimes you'll hear tuners say, "I'm gonna stiffen the spring blah blah blah." I guarantee you they're speaking in shorthand for the benefit of the non-initiated. They know they're not changing the rate of the spring and making the spring itself stiffer. Most of the time they will say, "I'm gonna stiffen your shock... I'm gonna soften your forks" etc which is the more precise phrasing.
@@okboomer1241 Mate, I think you are wrong. A spring will compress at its compression rate, irrespective of the existing load. So, in your example, you have a spring that compresses 25mm for an added weight of 90kg. so if you add another 90 kg it will compress another 50mm. And so on, as shown during the video. If, however, you compress the spring its rate remains the same. So, if you shorten the spring length using preload, it will still compress at the same rate. That means if you take 25mm of travel through preload then add 90kg, it is going to compress 25mm from the preloaded position. Preload is not presag. All preload does is position the spring in the optimum position, allowing for both compression and extension. For the road, I adjust the front preload so the bike sits 24mm lower than with the suspension fully extended. This means the bike sags 38mm with me on it. I have 130mm of suspension travel so I am using about 30% of my travel. So I have 70% for absorbing bumps and 30% for following hollows etc. Note that 24mm (static sag) less 38mm (rider sag) means my weight is using 14mm of travel For the track, I set preload so the suspension is set at 20mm lower than fully extended by adding preload (6 turns instead of 2). Now when I sit on the bike it sags to 33 mm, using only 25% of travel and therefore raising the bike. I have more travel for compression, but less to follow hollows. But, here's the kicker, 20 (static sag) less 33mm (rider sag) means my weight is using 13mm of travel. Allowing for stiction and rounding, preload has made no difference to adding my weight, I still compress the spring the same amount. So when you say "It won't sag 25mm because it has "pre-sagged" because we "pre-loaded"..." you are in error.
@@theresanothersteve Disregard my first question. As I re-read your reply I saw the misunderstanding, and your real world example is excellent. In my hypothetical, the bike has no static sag with no preload (spring fully extended to its free length). A 90kg rider mounts and moves/compresses the suspension 25mm (0mm static sag + 25mm rider sag = 25mm total sag). If we add preload, perhaps 10 turns, to the point that the rider mounts and the suspension doesn't move (0mm static sag + 0mm rider sag = 0mm total sag), then we've pre-loaded 90kg into the spring. You would have to put somebody on the bike who weighed more than 90kg to move the suspension. A 180kg rider would move the suspension 25mm again (if its a linear or straight rate spring). In your real world fork example, you did not remove all the static sag (which is impossible the way forks are engineered, but happens all the time with shocks). You removed 4mm of static sag. You can remove or add as much static sag as you want and it will not affect the amount of rider sag. This is why we add static sag to rider sag to get total sag. My example started at zero static sag, and then added preload to the point that there was also zero rider sag. If you could remove all your fork static sag, and you sat on the bike, it would still move 13 to 14 mm (rider sag). If you could continue to add preload until all your rider sag was gone too (which you can't because of fork engineering, but you can with shocks), then you will have loaded your equivalent weight into the fork springs just like my hypothetical (I had a shock spring in mind). I cannot commend you enough for adjusting your suspension. You're leagues ahead of most riders.
@@okboomer1241 Yes. I cannot understand people who do not take their time to learn about their bike, its suspension, how it works, and what happens due to external influences. When my wife bought her ZX14R, she looked at me while she was filling out the paperwork and asked if I would help her set up the suspension. The sales manager gave me the strangest look and asked if I knew that stuff. He seemed to think it was a black art... I wish dealers would set the sag whenever someone bought a bike and provided some basic information about adjusting suspension. But in today's litigious society they seem to leave it with factory settings. And I'm here to tell you I'm not some 60kg Ducati test rider, so my suspension needed changing to accommodate my more robust build.
I hit repeat but it keeps going back only to Ari on the pogo stick))))))))))))). I'm a bit nauseous but 30 minutes later I know my suspension a bit better. invaluable video. Would love to see a how to on, "Fitting a suspension/bike" to you....levers, suspension, rear sets, zip ties on the forks etc
Simply the best explenation..!! Thanks.. I just build an off road go kart with IRS and I bought some shocks ramdomly (540lbs max load), because I have absolutely no idea about which ones are the right shocks for my ride.. and they are to soft.. I could adjust it and I could add air (nitrogen), but after watching this video something tells me that I need stronger shocks...
Setting up suspension is looked upon as some kind of black art mainly due to the differing terminology for the same subject. Great explanation Zac, really enjoyed being educated by clear informative non bull language, will definitely watch again.
I've watched several videos on motorcycle suspension, and this one does the best job of presenting the information in a way that is easy to understand. Thank you!
Hi Ari, very nice video and very well explained but I think there is a little error on the SAG figures of the RS660. It supposed to be the other way around: free sag 30 mm and rider sag 10 mm, no? You can even see it a few seconds earlier in the video when you drop the bike from the fork stand that it compresses the forks way more compared to when you sit on the bike. Again, great video and very well explained! Keep up the good work
Rider sag is the total amount compressed from full extension, so in your example if you have 30mm free sag and it sags another 10mm with the rider, your rider sag would be 40mm. On street bikes you will generally have a lot of free sag in the front, 20+mm, and the rider sag will be only slightly more. The rear will be the opposite, 5-10mm free sag and rider sag will be much more than free sag.
@RevZilla @AriHenning Can you guys do a video about pulling in the clutch partially or completely to change gears? What happens if you dont pull it in fully and does it wear out the plates faster?
Nice video Ari, I have a challenge for you. I have and Africa Twin ADV Sports 2020, and i have one thing in the bike that i hate. The ridding modes, ABS /Anti wheelie /TC..... It is a pain to turn it off, and if turn off the bike, the configuration will not stay as i left it the last time around... So... Like on KTM, what would i need to have full control over all the ridding modes and ABS AW TC? Thanks, Wish the best for the show. "Get Busy Living."
I'm familiar with the interface on the AT. It's kinda infuriating! One option is to see if the ABS and TC have their own fuses, and if they do you could wire a switch to cut power to those circuits, individually or together. That way you'd have manual control. I did something similar on my Speed Triple to disable ABS. Modify the electronics at your own risk though! I know it's annoying to reset the system every time you cycle the key, but it is the safest approach.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Read more on Common Tread: rvz.la/3tA8oIQ
Great read and simply explained.
Can you make a topic for motorcycle tune up. Thanks in advance.
@@needlesandtires a a
@@49Roadmaster ààaàaq
You really are among the very top motorcycle related presenters out there. I hope you keep doing these for a long time!
Thank you. It's a privilege to be a resource for riders and I hope to keep at it for years to come.
Top? Him, Zack, and Ryan F9 are the best on the internet.
@@ferociousfrankie I know F9 but who is Zack?
@@tariqholder8818 Zack Courts
@@AriH211 you are the best because you actually work on motorcycles. I'm a trained mechanic but always watch your videos to learn new stuff.
This is gonna be one of those go-to videos for years.
Read the article, nice brake down and couple good ideas in the comments. Cheers !
I watched it the first day, and every couple months come back to it cuz suspension is confusing for me
Now waiting for Zac's daily rider video review of the pogo stick. Great work as always guys. This is another video that goes into the favorites list.
And his Mickey Mouse giggle whilst bouncing around..
Wassup oggy!
Oggy, oggy, oggy...hoi, hoi, hoi...
...getting me coat...
What will his wife think of the pillion ride?
We need this
Your specific correction of the mistake of using "dampening" is much appreciated.
I’ll gladly repeat this video every now and then as a refresh
I've been needing this video for years. I never understood suspension.
Me either bro.
Happy it helped!
@@AriH211 great vid. One more thing i wonder. If you increase damping, (by turning the knob to +) does that make the suspension feel softer? As in compressing further/compressing faster. I can’t wrap my head around it
@@AriH211 it definitely did,thank you!
@@HeyAddieImTojo depending if you mean compression damping or rebound damping? Compression is hard/soft rebound is slow/fast. Maybe + could be harder. For compression. Don't get any of these mixed up with pre load
My Saturday morning coffee always taste better with New Revzilla videos!
It'd be nice with some examples of how to tune a bike with these things in mind.
Great video as always, Ari.
I understood it all, but I need to watch it another 10 times for it to "sink in." Thanks Ari!
Well then thanks for the views ;)
One of the most confusing aspects of motorcycles for me. Thank you!
Not sure preload was explained clearly. It can't make the spring harder or stiffer; only the thickness and length of metal can affect spring rate. Higher preload may increase the amount of weight needed to commence movement, but after that preload has no effect. If I apply x Kilos of downforce, surely the spring will be at a certain compression regardless of preload? So surely preload affects only ride height and which part of the shock stroke gets used?
This video in conjunction with a video on measuring and adjusting motorcycle suspension, on a......*ahem* different channel with a suspiciously similar looking guy, are everything you need to get into properly setting up a bike for a specific rider. An often overlooked part of riding by the average rider.
Great job, please keep these coming!
The syringe is a good example. I usually give the example of one of those door struts, since I'm pretty sure everyone has used them. On heavy doors, they are hydraulic, just like suspension dampers. They slow the movement of the door closing, and the harder / faster you try to close the door, the more you'll feel the resistance. They're a bit different, since they are one-way compression dampers (you can open the door quickly, but can't slam it shut).
This is absolutely crazy. I was legit looking at my suspension and figuring how to to soften things up and this video shows up lol
This is the third time I’m watching this video in 3 years and 6000 miles. Always helpful. Thanks for these great videos
beautiful! Been so confused about pre-load for a while until I saw this video. Nobody else mentioned that the amount of suspension travel is not the same as the amount the spring can compress.
From engine breaking to lingo, I appreciate each of these videos. Over 40k miles down and I have no idea what most of the bike is.
We need a 2nd video explaining what are correct adjustment settings for front and rear.
Something vaguely like this? th-cam.com/video/ZtzTyCKh5fY/w-d-xo.html
There is no correct setting.
It depends on what bike you ride, how long since the suspension was serviced, how heavy you are, how your weight is distributed on the bike, any additional weight such as luggage or pillion, even tyre pressure.
Generally speaking, if you can't get the sag numbers, or are at the maximum adjustment to get the number, you need to replace the springs. You can set rebound damping by compressing the forks and letting them return to the natural position and adjusting flow so the forks extend as quickly as possible, without topping out and going back down.
It is worth the fifty bucks or so to get a professional setup if you don't know how to do it yourself.
@@theresanothersteve True, but that's what formulas are for; like the one he used for the sag setting. From there you can adjust till it feels just right.
I just watch the whole Shop manual play list looking for a how to change brake pads. No luck yet, but now I know how to bleed out the brakes
never mind... just found a video by Lemmy at the revzilla common tread
Super helpful! but gotta be honest, I need to watch it maybe 2-3 more times. Awesome stuff!
Ok, now after viewing a 30th video about suspension i started to understand it))))
That neon sign is sick, really gives the video an awesome vibe. And goes without saying, excellent video Ari, really good primer for people
I can finally understand Dave Moss Tuning videos. Thanks Ari❤️
Nice veins man. Looks awesome.
Very lean, tight
Thank you so much for this. Even if all this info is available on the internet, someone explaining it in such a lucid manner makes all the difference.
Excellent content.
What is pretty clear here though, is that Ari like to pogo around.
Not disappointed.
I had to laugh when he broke that thing out
As an engineer, it warms my heart to see damping correctly used. I bet you also know that counter-steering works at ALL speeds, not just above some “magic” speed. 😁
And not "dampening"!
It does work at all speed. People often think it as counter steering to where the bike goes, it actually is giving a counter force to where the bike leans.
The bike goes to same direction where it leans. However, At low speed, there’s not enough momentum to hold the bike to from gravity. So people counter steer against the bike from falling to the ground, which looks like steering to where the bike goes.
If people have ever practiced static balance when the bike isn’t moving forward at all for enduro riding they will know better.
Counter steer is working for the bike’s leaning and that’s not exactly the same as the direction the bike goes.
@@timmychen6 Correct. People used to cars where the steering directly controls the rate of turn have a hard time understanding countersteering. The also have a hard time learning to fly an airplane as airplane physics is nearly identical to motorcycle physics. In an airplane, turning the control wheel simply changes the angle of bank of the airplane, it doesn’t directly initiate a turn. The turn is initiated by the bank of the airplane. So, unlike a car where you turn the wheel a certain amount and then hold it steady for the duration of the turn. If you hold the control wheel in an airplane in a fixed position, you will do an aileron roll and not a turn. You turn the control wheel to establish a certain bank angle and then you return it to center for the duration of the turn. You then turn it the opposite direction to remove the bank angle and thus stop the turn. So, even though you don’t turn the airplane wheel the opposite direction as with a motorcycle, you are using the control to establish an angle of bank just as a motorcycle establishes an angle of lean.
Glad to see your injuries healed dude! You’re the best!
I've been riding for 30 years and when though I know this information, it's easy to forget and a refresher never hurts. Thank you!
That was a nice vocabulary lesson. Most of the riders I know just need to know how to properly set up their suspension for their weight and adjust for a passenger or luggage, I was really hoping you get more into those weeds. Next video?
Can you make a video on how to set your sag with adjustments when having a passenger or/and cargo?
Man that RS660 is awesome.
These basic explainers are great. And yes, I'll need to watch this a few times. Even 2 years later, thanks for all you do.
I'm so happy these videos are continuing since he left MC Garage. Some of the best ELI5 videos on maintaining and using motorcycles out there ...
Finally found you. Got hooked on your videos on MC garage but "lost" you when you left. Nice to be back
Got too get my dose of ari and zack. If I have to come to revzilla now so be it.
Recently picked up an MT-10 and have been racking my brain as to what ten adjusts, now I know thank you!
So far this video is the most effective given it’s length to explain about suspension. Keep it up and hope to see more like this.
Nobody explains tech better than Zac.
I’ll let him know! 😂
cool to see all the work the tire is doing as well in the slow mo riding clips
I swear Ari is making sure hes got a mad pump before all these videos. Bros arms are JACKED
We love you Zack and Ari!
From,
A metric friend!
Haha, thanks! Right back at ya.
Is that ari’s rs660? Suspension always confused me too, glad this video exists...
I am a big fan of your garage videos. Also, the adventures with Zack. Stay safe and keep these videos coming. Thanks.
I have been trying to figure out what these terminologies are… thanks for the explanation!
I see Ari doing a moto vid and I click.
All these years I called shocks "dampeners" not knowing they are "dampers". Damn, I love this series.
They are dampeners though. The word dampeners has been used to mean what is being called "dampers" in this video since literally before the existence of the automobile (and the word dampen, as in to lower the impact/strength of something, has had that definition even longer, before Descartes said "I think therefore I am")
I need a part 2 that covers 'understanding and using damper settings' pretty please. This one happens to end perfectly after covering exactly what I already knew. Great video covering the basics in a clear way however. I'm sure it will help a ton of people.
Actually, I know a bit more. I understand how to set compression, more or less. It's rebound that throws me for a loop, don't really know how to think about it let alone build intuition around it. Also 'slow' vs 'fast' rebound and compression is one of those things I nod my head to while someone explains it, but it doesn't really click with a deeper understanding. High frequency vs. low frequency bumps, yadda-yadda, but how does that translate into feel or knowing the right settings?
Look up Dave Moss Tuning for in depth suspension setups.
Awesome as always !! Just a suggestion on a follow up future video if you would please. How to read your tires so you know what you suspension is doing or not doing. My connie 14 tires were a little choppy last change. Nobody seems to know . Cheers!!
Ari still making me do my pushups.
As a 225 pound rider I'm used to being undersprung on stock suspension. I typically find that the correct (i.e. stiffer) springs give both proper sag figures *and* a more compliant ride on bumpy roads. Whoever said "there's no such thing as a bad motorcycle ride" never did Carmel Valley Road on a bike with almost zero rear free sag. That is an extreme beating, and the spine will remind you for weeks!
Ok I will have to watch it several times but I already can tell this is one of the best content I have found on this regard. Love the way you easily explain it due to English not being my first lenguage
Great work buddy.. it would be great if you can make a follow-up video explaining how set sag , preload and basic of damping.. cheers for the awesome work. Regards to Zack and team Revzilla😀😀
How is RevZilla making videos that answer questions I want answered so freakishly
another great teaching video from Ari now added to my reference Moto youtube list, Thank you!
Very soothing and proper explanation bro,well done 👏 I fully overstand what suspension means now and i didn't know yesterday or all the years before....👏👏👏
Great video. Clear explanation of how things work however yes, I will probably have to watch it again and again for it to all sink in. I do have a great reference to draw on👍
Great vid and thanks for going over this subject. I needed it explained just like you did. Now, would you please make a video showing us how to actually set up the bike? It would be appreciated.
Please make a video about suspension adjustment please, preload, compression and rebound
Thanks so much for making this one Zack, I hope a fork strip down video is coming?
I’m a tall and heavy rider, so find most stock suspension too soft. After paying an eye-watering amount for a proper suspension setup, I decided I’d learn to do suspension work myself.
I found it was hard to find all the info you need clearly explained, and it took a lot of research, but once you’ve got over that and got a couple extra tools, suspension work is really easy, if a little time consuming and messy. Sure proper suspension shops are a must if you’re hitting the track, but for most of us just an online spring rate calculator and a bit of trial and error will do wonders for your bike pretty cheaply, especially if you’re +/- the “average weight” they designed your bike for.
I’m now a huge advocate of riders learning to service their own forks and if possible shocks. You can massively improve the handling of your bike pretty cheaply and save yourself a bunch of money servicing your own forks, and it’s an extra thing to be aware of when buying a used bike! Old and cracked seals... eh not too bad, cheap to replace; messed up stantions... run!
Man, Ari really taking me to class!
What a great and fantastic article and explained so well. Thank you.
So let me get this straight and clear. As it has always been explained to me that the TOTAL SAG on a motorcycle was to be set at 30% of the TOTAL SUSPENSION travel.
I find out my total travel from the manual. In this case 2018 KLR 7.28" or 185mm. (Old method of "30%" would be 2.18" or 55.5mm)
Your method:
The RIDER SAG is 1/4 of total travel 1.82" or 46mm.
The FREE SAG is 1/3 of the RIDER SAG value above 0.61" or 15mm.
So my new Measured sag with gear and me should be 1.82" + 0.61" = 2.43" or 62mm.
So that is 33.5% of TOTAL SUSPENSION TRAVEL. Like your article says 1/3 (33%) of the available travel.
I had never heard of this "1/4 + 1/3 of 1/4" method before and will have to check it out.
THANKS AGAIN!
Can we get an episode devoted to Ari's workout routine?
I have to take exception to your explanation of preload. It does not modify the spring rate. If your weight compresses a spring by (let's say) 25mm, adding preload does not change that. If you have 25mm of preload you will still compress the spring 25mm, so with the preload the spring will be compressed a total of 50mm. It will not be any stiffer because of the preload.
This is a terminology problem that vexes engineers when people try to describe what they're feeling using a normal everyday vocabulary. Let's say it takes 200 pounds (90 kg) to move your imaginary shock spring that 25mm (1 inch). With no preload (the spring fully released to free length) a 200 lb rider will sit on the bike and it will move, or sag, 25mm which the rider will easily feel (a 400 lb rider will move it 50mm). Now let's add your 25mm of preload which means we'll load the shock spring with 200 pounds of force before the rider ever gets on the bike. When the rider does it won't move at all, not even 1mm. It won't sag 25mm because it has "pre-sagged" because we "pre-loaded" it with 200 pounds. While the spring rate has not changed, the amount of force required to move the shock 25mm has doubled to 400 lbs / 180 kg (a 400 lb rider will move it 25mm). Every motorcyclist on the planet will notice that, even Quartararo who will say to his engineer, in English, "the shock is stiffer." As you accurately state the spring itself is not stiffer, but the shock, as an assembly, IS stiffer because it now takes twice the force to make it move the same 25mm. Sometimes you'll hear tuners say, "I'm gonna stiffen the spring blah blah blah." I guarantee you they're speaking in shorthand for the benefit of the non-initiated. They know they're not changing the rate of the spring and making the spring itself stiffer. Most of the time they will say, "I'm gonna stiffen your shock... I'm gonna soften your forks" etc which is the more precise phrasing.
@@okboomer1241 Mate, I think you are wrong.
A spring will compress at its compression rate, irrespective of the existing load. So, in your example, you have a spring that compresses 25mm for an added weight of 90kg. so if you add another 90 kg it will compress another 50mm. And so on, as shown during the video.
If, however, you compress the spring its rate remains the same. So, if you shorten the spring length using preload, it will still compress at the same rate. That means if you take 25mm of travel through preload then add 90kg, it is going to compress 25mm from the preloaded position. Preload is not presag. All preload does is position the spring in the optimum position, allowing for both compression and extension.
For the road, I adjust the front preload so the bike sits 24mm lower than with the suspension fully extended. This means the bike sags 38mm with me on it. I have 130mm of suspension travel so I am using about 30% of my travel. So I have 70% for absorbing bumps and 30% for following hollows etc. Note that 24mm (static sag) less 38mm (rider sag) means my weight is using 14mm of travel
For the track, I set preload so the suspension is set at 20mm lower than fully extended by adding preload (6 turns instead of 2). Now when I sit on the bike it sags to 33 mm, using only 25% of travel and therefore raising the bike. I have more travel for compression, but less to follow hollows. But, here's the kicker, 20 (static sag) less 33mm (rider sag) means my weight is using 13mm of travel. Allowing for stiction and rounding, preload has made no difference to adding my weight, I still compress the spring the same amount.
So when you say "It won't sag 25mm because it has "pre-sagged" because we "pre-loaded"..." you are in error.
@@theresanothersteve Are your fork springs linear or progressive?
@@theresanothersteve Disregard my first question. As I re-read your reply I saw the misunderstanding, and your real world example is excellent. In my hypothetical, the bike has no static sag with no preload (spring fully extended to its free length). A 90kg rider mounts and moves/compresses the suspension 25mm (0mm static sag + 25mm rider sag = 25mm total sag). If we add preload, perhaps 10 turns, to the point that the rider mounts and the suspension doesn't move (0mm static sag + 0mm rider sag = 0mm total sag), then we've pre-loaded 90kg into the spring. You would have to put somebody on the bike who weighed more than 90kg to move the suspension. A 180kg rider would move the suspension 25mm again (if its a linear or straight rate spring). In your real world fork example, you did not remove all the static sag (which is impossible the way forks are engineered, but happens all the time with shocks). You removed 4mm of static sag. You can remove or add as much static sag as you want and it will not affect the amount of rider sag. This is why we add static sag to rider sag to get total sag. My example started at zero static sag, and then added preload to the point that there was also zero rider sag. If you could remove all your fork static sag, and you sat on the bike, it would still move 13 to 14 mm (rider sag). If you could continue to add preload until all your rider sag was gone too (which you can't because of fork engineering, but you can with shocks), then you will have loaded your equivalent weight into the fork springs just like my hypothetical (I had a shock spring in mind). I cannot commend you enough for adjusting your suspension. You're leagues ahead of most riders.
@@okboomer1241 Yes.
I cannot understand people who do not take their time to learn about their bike, its suspension, how it works, and what happens due to external influences.
When my wife bought her ZX14R, she looked at me while she was filling out the paperwork and asked if I would help her set up the suspension. The sales manager gave me the strangest look and asked if I knew that stuff. He seemed to think it was a black art...
I wish dealers would set the sag whenever someone bought a bike and provided some basic information about adjusting suspension. But in today's litigious society they seem to leave it with factory settings. And I'm here to tell you I'm not some 60kg Ducati test rider, so my suspension needed changing to accommodate my more robust build.
I hit repeat but it keeps going back only to Ari on the pogo stick))))))))))))). I'm a bit nauseous but 30 minutes later I know my suspension a bit better. invaluable video. Would love to see a how to on, "Fitting a suspension/bike" to you....levers, suspension, rear sets, zip ties on the forks etc
Thanks for the video.. This cleared many things for me.
This is exactly the video I needed.... Sounding like a foreign language to me Thanks
Simply the best explenation..!! Thanks..
I just build an off road go kart with IRS and I bought some shocks ramdomly (540lbs max load), because I have absolutely no idea about which ones are the right shocks for my ride.. and they are to soft.. I could adjust it and I could add air (nitrogen), but after watching this video something tells me that I need stronger shocks...
Thanks so much for this. Can't wait for next season to set up both my sag settings now.
Setting up suspension is looked upon as some kind of black art mainly due to the differing terminology for the same subject. Great explanation Zac, really enjoyed being educated by clear informative non bull language, will definitely watch again.
I've watched several videos on motorcycle suspension, and this one does the best job of presenting the information in a way that is easy to understand. Thank you!
You’re the best Ari! I hope you stick around and do this for a very long time!
Glad to see you’re still actively sharing info! Tho today at MC garage sounds way more familiar😂
Great Ari ..this video fully cleared the doubts on suspension terminologies
You are a great teacher. Thank you for helping me to understand what suspension is and how it works. Excellent video. Well done!
I was hoping that this would go into the difference between fast and slow damping
Thanks for passing on the knowledge Ari. Excellent video.
You're welcome.
After watching a lot of motojitsu uploads I needed this. Lol, it was like he was speaking Korean to me 😂
Well done Sir. Well done.
This guy has veins like the Hulk.
The sheer amount of blood flow would rip a brake hose in two pieces xD
It's just the right amount for dampening properly...
@@WillyO That's "damping" properly.
Hahaha 🤣🤣🤣
His face is mostly healed up after blowing half of it off with a judiciously misplaced firecracker.
he must work out just before shooting a video
This was amazing. I've been trying to get a handle on this for decades! Thank you!
Very informative and well presented, Ari! You have just taken these already instructive videos to another level!!
This video should be required viewing for your MC endorsement.
Love to see a new vid with you firecracker!!!
I see its healed pretty good
Just that perfect RS 660 sitting in the background like no big deal....
Only the dopest for TSM.
Because they don't make a camera with enough viewing angle to capture the suspension on my KLR crashing about unchecked
@@danmanthe9335 😂😂
Very good explanation.
Ari is the man! Thanks!
Hi Ari, very nice video and very well explained but I think there is a little error on the SAG figures of the RS660. It supposed to be the other way around: free sag 30 mm and rider sag 10 mm, no?
You can even see it a few seconds earlier in the video when you drop the bike from the fork stand that it compresses the forks way more compared to when you sit on the bike.
Again, great video and very well explained! Keep up the good work
Rider sag is the total amount compressed from full extension, so in your example if you have 30mm free sag and it sags another 10mm with the rider, your rider sag would be 40mm. On street bikes you will generally have a lot of free sag in the front, 20+mm, and the rider sag will be only slightly more. The rear will be the opposite, 5-10mm free sag and rider sag will be much more than free sag.
Very well executed!!!
This is one to watch for sure 👍
Thanks for the video
The rear shock on my 2018 Honda nc750x makes funny sounds whenever I ride on a bumpy road or over speed humps
This is excellent work man.
Awesome video!! Thx!! How about electronic stability control with IMU as a topic?
Thanks, so good, it should be a part of every rider course. You're saving lives with this one.
do a video about vegetable oil as engine oil
Clearest explanation I have witnessed and very appreciated 👍🏻👍🏻💪
Great info, also... HAHAHAHA the pogo stick part.
Thanks again Ari. Best series on yt. Keep them videos coming. Ride safe✌️
@RevZilla @AriHenning Can you guys do a video about pulling in the clutch partially or completely to change gears? What happens if you dont pull it in fully and does it wear out the plates faster?
Nice video Ari,
I have a challenge for you.
I have and Africa Twin ADV Sports 2020, and i have one thing in the bike that i hate.
The ridding modes, ABS /Anti wheelie /TC.....
It is a pain to turn it off, and if turn off the bike, the configuration will not stay as i left it the last time around...
So... Like on KTM, what would i need to have full control over all the ridding modes and ABS AW TC?
Thanks,
Wish the best for the show.
"Get Busy Living."
I'm familiar with the interface on the AT. It's kinda infuriating! One option is to see if the ABS and TC have their own fuses, and if they do you could wire a switch to cut power to those circuits, individually or together. That way you'd have manual control. I did something similar on my Speed Triple to disable ABS. Modify the electronics at your own risk though! I know it's annoying to reset the system every time you cycle the key, but it is the safest approach.
IM for Indonesian , IM mechanical service lokal for suspension motorcycle, nice video❤