I know, I just thought it was kinda funny. I used to (kinda) ride bikes. I think I always put mine at like 70ish. I think they're rated to 65. I know such a rebel.
Spike Kastleman naw broghe some setup benefit from mild camber, think about what happens when you lean into a tight turn. body roll, coil bind, etc. can hurt yer handling especially if the car wasn't meant to be driven hard
Can I just say thank you for making these videos? I've been watching your channel since the beginning of LDC1, and no one I've seen on youtube has been as thorough or knowledgeable as you are. Haggard garage just destroys cars for entertainment, MCM has the sponsorship and money to do whatever they want with the help of their shop friends. I feel like Off Beat is the only channel out there that is a truly competent, grass roots car channel. The amount of time and research you've put into your car shows, and I'm glad to finally see you out drifting. So thank you!
i know and seen you do your own alignment on your car, if you have time you should do a video on how to do alignments on low cars like yours, what tools you use and methods etc.
don't forget acrumen, I put modded knuckles in my car with 0 ish acrumen, and have 0 toe front and rear, 0 rear camber, 6 degrees front camber and stock caster. works mint! I learned a lot from this video, awesome!
this is interesting to me. I hate it much less now. I always just figured it was completely for "aesthetic" purposes. Now that I understand there is a point to cambering the tits out of vehicles, I can appreciate it to an extent. Well spoken, informative video.
IF it's excessive and FWD cars need more camber at the front because that is where the power is being delivered. Camber keeps it in a straight line. Don't quote me.
IForgotHisName that's totally correct. the ideal amount of front camber for RWD/FWD track cars is 3.5degrees to 4 degrees. it reduces understeer during the corner which is a huge killer in track time
Fwd cars already spin their tires really easy even with 100hp so what happens when u add camber to those front tires and even futher reduce grip when on straight line and accelerating hard.
ya i mean camber is fine if you have a car for the specific reason of drifting but people that put it on there honda fucking civic cuz they think its "cool" then its just dangerous and looks really really fucked up
let me just say this to you. i began watching your videos a few days ago and you sir suprized me as one hell of a hard worker! i mean here i am a week ago watching your first drift video and now here you are with this vast of knowledge and what appears to be sponsers on your car? congrats man and keep up the good work!
huh, ive been a serious car guy and love professional drifting and it turns out i didnt know how cambre worked, before this i thought it was to make it so that the tire has a flat contact when the tire deforms under the horizontal stress of drifting or turning. this was way more informative than i thought it would be, i actually completly relearned somthing i thought already knew
if you have McPherson suspension or something that pivots you don't need a fixed camber angle,the car already gains camber angle as it tilts, with extra camber you lose contact the more the car tilts. fixed negative camber is for cars that camber steer, camber steer is when the inside wheel gets positive camber and the outside wheel gets negative camber going into a turn, like how you lean a motorcycle into a turn,, if it had two front wheels, with this setup adding "slight" negative camber ( not too much because the outside wheel is already getting negative camber) will help the inside wheel (wich is getting positive camber) be more flat on the ground in a turn, negative rear camber will help the car slide because the tires arnt flat on the ground so go for it, a lot of people are very misinformed about the camber thing, but it dose look cool on lowriders
Holyshit man I just learned more in this 9 minute and 50 second video then I ever have just trying to figure it out myself. this is internet gold thank you for posting this I also subbed and I will follow you on Instagram!!
That is accurate and a relevant compensation for forward caster, aside from initial steering input, but on a drift car you aren’t overly concerned with the confident feel of the feed back during initial turn in
One thing I don’t fully understand ( I’ve had some but little real life experience working on real drift cars) but my understanding is you want less grip at the front when on lock so the rear end can catch the slide.
This popped up in my suggestions and I fully expected the Bro attitude to this. So I went "humour me" and then you appear on-screen well versed in the topic and I am left seriously reevaluating my stereotypes over here.
Something to add is that the caster affect works best for grip set ups where the outside front wheel is take all the load, so gaining dynamic camber is a good thing. Drift set ups are opposite because like the guys says the lead wheel is now you primary focus. Good explanation!!
Ive been watching your Offbeat Garage videos since you first started drifting and building the first 240. I really like you education and knowledge behind what you do to your car instead of just throwing shit at a car and saying it's going to work! I don't drift, I like drag racing but alignment angles are just as important in both areas. Love the video's still!
2:43 Can you give a more thorough explanation of how caster is effected by suspension geometry? If I understand correctly positive caster (tilting the steering axis rearward) adds negative camber at lock on the outside tire, and positive camber at lock to the inside tire. I believe that aftermarket knuckles (hubs) often give you some adjustment, but I don't understand what you said here about 'false caster trail'. If it is the case that the mounting point of the the hub (the spindle) is forward of the ball joint and the coil-over mount, then it seems to me that would add a totally untenable amount of negative caster. So I must be misunderstanding something....
Thanks for the explanation. I kinda feel like it was partially in response to my comment about stretching the tires so it wouldn't rub the front fenders. Good information and it makes sense now. Looking forward to more videos! You've come a long way since i first started watching.
Stretched tires actually also provide another benefit for drift cars other than more fender clearance. When stretched, the tires gain lateral stiffness since the sidewalls are diagonal which makes them not snap as hard into grip and slide easier/smoother to the sides. Edit: fender clearance isn't actually a legit benefit since you can easily run a more narrow rim to fit the tires and still not have any rubbing issues.
Thanks for your explanations. First time I see someone explain it while actually showing how their wheels actually move. I've been trying to explain this to a couple of friends, and yet they always look at me like an alien. Now I got a proper video to show them to prove my point! With this I can now SHOW the difference between a drifter's camber/caster setup and those idiots running 20-25 degrees of negative camber on their street cars... Thanks! :P
This is such an amazing good explanation of your alignment, I was just impressed and then more so the longer you kept instructing. Nice work. have a good run on the track.
Hey Adel, could you do another video in regards to the changes you made to your suspension recently? I know you seemed pretty happy with the changes but I didn't quite catch everything you did beyond raising the front end. Thanks so much, and hello from Texas (when you gonna come down???).
Just a thought. Running very high tyre pressures will cause a tyre to wear more in the middle as the tyre will balloon. Although if your drifting a car with low power you're probably using cheap part worn tyres so tyre wear isn't that big of an issue. Nice vid :)
my c33 has probably negative 5 or 6 degrees of camber and in daily circumstances it isnt a big issue as i am simply not going fast enough on the road to cause any affect on brake performance. in fact it handles better than stock. in fact i could even go with 3 degrees more camber to make my tyres wear evenly and this is in daily conditions. not hating on you or trying to prove you wrong this is just my experiences. cheers yo!
Hey dude just a heads up the geometry you're talking about here which flattens the wheel isn't camber it's mostly steering axis inclination. SAI with wheels pointing forward effects your camber, but both geometries completely part ways as soon as you turn the wheels. Camber can be added either via extending the upper or lower links, or changing the axis inclination which for a Mac Strut vehicle like this it's the coilover clevis. You do not need to run -10 degrees of camber to improve your contact patch, you are able to change your SAI at the clevis and correct for that effect on camber via the upper or lower links. With high amounts of camber you tend to lose feel in the front end and can create vagueness. Camber itself is typically used to create camber thrust, which is essentially what it sounds, a cornering thrust provided by the angle of the wheel resisting the lateral forces of the car. Really decent video man!
Great video! Thanks for the info and lesson. I wish the trend of ridiculous camber on street cars would just stop but I now get it for track specific drift cars.
Honest question. Why such a wide wheel on the rear with stretched tires and spacers? I mean if you want more grip wouldn't you want a wider tire with straight sidewall instead of less contact with a stretched tire? Meaning wouldn't it make sense to run no spacer and unstretched tires? Just curious
thanks. learn something new every day. I just can't figure out why some of these cars have so much negative camber that the inside of the rim is the only thing touching the ground.
Yeah it was using the old logo in the animation though which is why I stopped using it. Then I went back to change it and all the files are corrupt now for whatever reason so basically I have to redo that whole thing to bring it back. Maybe a little weekend project would be to make a new one, how's that sound?
Great info but could you explain the stretched tyres? yes I understand to clear fenders etc but why not just choose the correct offset wheels to begin with?
+Mrx1080 Stretching tires has nothing to do with clearing fenders on my car. It's like an 80% aesthetic choice and the other 20% is the benefit of stiffer sidewalls for increased response.
I am really interested into drifting so I want to know what should do as a beginner. Especially which car to buy and whats important when looking for one.
Just out of interest, is there a use for induced roll steer at the rear in drift cars? I was thinking that it may help to increase the 'flick' angle, just a split second before the drift actually starts. Obviously after the tires break traction, any body roll is somewhat reduced, so the steer effect is negated, until the next directional flick. Once I'd learned about it, I always used to build it into my RC cars since around 1980.
another reason why pro cars dial down their PSI so low is tire Hysteria... since rubber is an insulator of heat and temperature is a direct influence of tire pressure... they dial the pressure down because they know the heat they create from the load and friction they generate from the tire will cause the air to expand both quickly and significantly... and since tires are very good insulators, thus being hard to cool down, they factor in how long it will take for the tire to heat up and cool down versus how much time they spend actually in use before they change them... but there could be other factors included too, like lets say tire blankets... you can set them to be at a certain temperature before they even hit the track so the idea of hysteria is practically eliminated... however, I'm not sure about regulations regarding blankets and budget limitations too so that may not even be considered.
Honestly, at the start of the video I saw that negative camber and immediately thought "not another stance moron". Good video, glad to be proven wrong....
First kinda don't get it but then I realise that drifting work on counter steer. As you go left the right wheel kinda turn left with very small slip angle.
so i get the part where the centripetal forces of a grip car are perpendicular and why they can run more negative camber. but i dont understand the way the forces differ to drift cars.
OOOOOOOOOOOOO SHIT yeah yeah. That makes more sense. so you dont have as much force acting perpendicular to the wheels because it's not gripping the ground so it wont roll onto the wheel and cancel out the camber ... right ?
Quick question regarding your overfenders at the rear of the 240! do we need to cut off the old fender, so the rear wheels won't rub on it?? or simply you roll it a little bit?
Camber doesn't need to be that much, you can run around 3 degrees camber or even less, change the caster forward more and use a trailing knuckle and still have a flatter contact patch through out your whole steering. If I remember, I thought people ran so much camber was for clearance when angle kits started being developed more. Now they move the top hats and extend the arms together to not have that much camber and have more inner clearance now days.
+OffBeat Garage very interesting video! Does even front and rear toe adjustments change the behavior of the car in drifting or you dont need to touch it? thanks :D
One question about rear camber; say I put down over 300 ftlbs to the rear wheels and my trans is rated to about 300. Running about 40 psi in the rear with -1 camber in the rear could be safer for the trans than -0.5 or neutral?
what's up bro,I just wanted to ask a few questions if I may, I have an 2002 acura cl type S, it's my daily Drive and I want to put -camber on it for the look but also want to get the most performance out of my tires and turning ,what degree should i put the front cambers too and what degrees should I put the rear campers too,i want it noticeable with negative camber but also want the most surface space and performance as possible?
Great video. You know your stuff, and I learned a lot, thanks. You did cover the alternatives well, such as the front sliding, which should be rolled into the Ackerman discussion, and choice in rear, but i'd like to elaborate. I think the rear camber vs. PSI at rear tires can also be better the other way, depending on car, power, surface, etc. You are mimicking the set-up of a high powered pro car that has tire restrictions, but in a non-turbo/very low powered car, requiring you to crank PSI. In some way you are satisfying the need to get the "pro look" lol. It may seem like a nuisance to flip tire, but you may be able to get twice the use of tire by cambering and running lower psi to give grip. it also changes the feel, and breakaway character, which may be better, or not, depends. If u run zero camber, but have to pump psi up to degrip, the higher psi will increase heat and accelerate wear, even to the point of premature catastrophic chunking, and losing a good tire very early( thou usu. not in KA, beacause low power), but in any even low powered turbo car aka. SR20det or VQ car, u will destroy tires at those high pressures. Also, just using a 205 or 195 stretched on same rims would be better way to degrip at zero rear camber, thus using cheaper tire at lower tire saving pressures, perhaps.
I was trying to understand caster 😕 Wasn’t much talk about caster. Does positive caster move the wheel to the front or the back of the car and what’s best for drifting
Positive caster pivots the steering axis to the rear. Here's a comparison example, assuming both cars have no camber when the wheels point straight: Car A (stock caster): 5° of positive camber on steering lock Car B (positive caster): 10° of positive camber on steering lock In drifting, you'd want some positive caster to allow the car to self-steer more quickly when you're transitioning between drifts. Running stock caster is OK if you want to see how quickly it self-steers when stock. This is why you'll see pro-level drift cars featuring more negative camber than grassroots drift cars' because their caster value is more positive, so they need more negative camber to offset for the positive caster made at 90 - 100% steering input.
***** That why i stated that decent drift setups "get rid of" ackerman...read the comment correctly, In your video you didn't even get into ackerman and why and what it does!
***** Although Ackerman is relevant to toe, but only while steering (at angle) this would be a great vid to do, because you explain things pretty well to people who may not understand 100%
SAI is more important to getting the camber gains you want than Caster, Less SAI and more caster would allow you to run less static camber but still get your camber gains.
you look familiar man! did you buy this car and start building it on here and then find all weird camber and caster etc then correct it and realise it threw the wheels out and then showed you had a bent frame? if so i watched the start of them and lost my wifi and your account name over time and couldnt find the videos, if its you damn happy i found you
On my old e36 I bought it with much angle but the fitment was really messed up and after further inspection my dad found out it had a shorter front subframe I got a really good amount of angle with out hitting anything but I didn't run that much camber so when I tried to do a fast entry I would lose all speed and spin out a lot on the track can some one explain what I should have done because I sold it and got another one that I wanna do every thing my self on
Damn dude i used to see your videos when you still had your other 240 then got the other 240 that was shitty af (idk if its not this black one) and then i also saw like your very first time attempting to drift and now i come back and you already got the hang of it and everything! Thats crazy dude but congrats man its very noticeable that all your hard work has been paying off
I'm assuming this is a 240sx which are normally fr drive cars so I would also assume the camber is in alignment with that. What would the camber difference be for ff drive and aw drive cars?
If you're talking about grip driving setups, it's more or less the same for all layouts. All wheels have some negative camber, maybe a little more for the front wheels.
now I can tune my cars better in forza
thats pritty much how i set mine up
Forza FTW
Devonte Mitchell lmfaooo exactly what ive been doing and it does work lol
-5 max camber in forza so gl. #RfactorFTW
Brandon C yea bro
Holy shit a car video with someone who knows what they are talking about!
"The tires are only safely rated to like 50 psi, but you can just go ahead and ignore that"
Tip top advice #pro
I mean he's not wrong... Same goes bikes too...
I know, I just thought it was kinda funny. I used to (kinda) ride bikes. I think I always put mine at like 70ish. I think they're rated to 65. I know such a rebel.
+First name Last name for road tyres 600c wheels like mine generally are rated at 65 psi max... then 700c are rated at 120psi
+First name Last name for mountain bikes, 26ers are rated at 45 psi and 29ers are rated 65 psi
Edgy
Camber for drifting = All good.
Camber on a non-drift car = Ricer crap.
Spike Kastleman preach brother and just because you have camber also does not mean you are a drifter
Spike Kastleman naw broghe some setup benefit from mild camber, think about what happens when you lean into a tight turn. body roll, coil bind, etc. can hurt yer handling especially if the car wasn't meant to be driven hard
TheBikemaster94
Let me correct myself: *Excesive* camber. Lol. My bad!
Thank you for saying that this guys camber isnt even bad but i see niggas with excessive camber on a toyota camry 😂😂😂😂
Spike Kastleman Camber for race cars and track cars is also good for reducing understeer and increasing traction during turn in
Thanks now im ready to drift in my Fiat Panda.
@Biggus Dickus pvc rings in the back, slow motion sliding^^
Can I just say thank you for making these videos? I've been watching your channel since the beginning of LDC1, and no one I've seen on youtube has been as thorough or knowledgeable as you are. Haggard garage just destroys cars for entertainment, MCM has the sponsorship and money to do whatever they want with the help of their shop friends. I feel like Off Beat is the only channel out there that is a truly competent, grass roots car channel. The amount of time and research you've put into your car shows, and I'm glad to finally see you out drifting. So thank you!
Well you're welcome my man :) glad to be here and making these videos for ya!
Is it just me, or does just the right amount of camber look really good?
GTR_Scott its very sexy
it looks good
Yea max -2
Hebele Hübele lmao i’d say that’s about max if you’re not gonna drift
On a Ferrari formula1 race car a team I am familiar with ran mostly a -2°camber in the rear and slightly more up front.
the reason why I couldn't drift with the Evo in Project cars.. it had too much negative camber on the front. great explanation
Keep making videos like this and you're gonna give engineering explained a run for his money! Very very informative!
i know and seen you do your own alignment on your car, if you have time you should do a video on how to do alignments on low cars like yours, what tools you use and methods etc.
For someone like me with NO tuner experience, this was incredibly educational! In all seriousness, thank you.
+Storm Rider Glad to hear it :)
don't forget acrumen, I put modded knuckles in my car with 0 ish acrumen, and have 0 toe front and rear, 0 rear camber, 6 degrees front camber and stock caster. works mint! I learned a lot from this video, awesome!
Totally comes off as a drift bro. Starts talking and its very clear hes a rift pro.
Respect
this is interesting to me. I hate it much less now. I always just figured it was completely for "aesthetic" purposes. Now that I understand there is a point to cambering the tits out of vehicles, I can appreciate it to an extent. Well spoken, informative video.
F1, DTM and most other touring racing, professional drifting...many race cars have negative camber. Some are even on all four corners.
so if i see a fwd car running this kind of camber, i can call it a ricer?
IF it's excessive and FWD cars need more camber at the front because that is where the power is being delivered. Camber keeps it in a straight line. Don't quote me.
IForgotHisName that's totally correct. the ideal amount of front camber for RWD/FWD track cars is 3.5degrees to 4 degrees. it reduces understeer during the corner which is a huge killer in track time
Nicholas Mcintyre not really. 3-4 degrees of camber on a fwd car reduces understeer throughout turns
Nah, you simply turn the other way.
Fwd cars already spin their tires really easy even with 100hp so what happens when u add camber to those front tires and even futher reduce grip when on straight line and accelerating hard.
ya i mean camber is fine if you have a car for the specific reason of drifting but people that put it on there honda fucking civic cuz they think its "cool"
then its just dangerous and looks really really fucked up
UnethicalGamer its also rice since its race inspired
yup
Nick Tallarigo for?
By the way it's "you're"
UnethicalGamer thanks homie😂 you good brughe?
hey man, what about the track built civics in world time attack? they run about 5.5 degrees up front
OMG ITS YOU!!! I just re discovered you after about 3 years. I remember your og drift builds on that 240 that you got from a panel beater!
lol, not why i run -9.5 degrees of camber up front.. I'm just a swag lord trying to fit dope ass rims.
thats funny
Lol I really love your honesty in this comment!
Angel D.
bruh i have a zenki.... but i cant wait to face lift it...(kouki swap) ;)
wont be doing 65° plus entry in my daily...challenge accepted sir lol
let me just say this to you. i began watching your videos a few days ago and you sir suprized me as one hell of a hard worker! i mean here i am a week ago watching your first drift video and now here you are with this vast of knowledge and what appears to be sponsers on your car? congrats man and keep up the good work!
huh, ive been a serious car guy and love professional drifting and it turns out i didnt know how cambre worked,
before this i thought it was to make it so that the tire has a flat contact when the tire deforms under the horizontal stress of drifting or turning.
this was way more informative than i thought it would be, i actually completly relearned somthing i thought already knew
Glad it helped!
if you have McPherson suspension or something that pivots you don't need a fixed camber angle,the car already gains camber angle as it tilts, with extra camber you lose contact the more the car tilts. fixed negative camber is for cars that camber steer, camber steer is when the inside wheel gets positive camber and the outside wheel gets negative camber going into a turn, like how you lean a motorcycle into a turn,, if it had two front wheels, with this setup adding "slight" negative camber ( not too much because the outside wheel is already getting negative camber) will help the inside wheel (wich is getting positive camber) be more flat on the ground in a turn, negative rear camber will help the car slide because the tires arnt flat on the ground so go for it, a lot of people are very misinformed about the camber thing, but it dose look cool on lowriders
Atleast he backs it up with facts
Holyshit man I just learned more in this 9 minute and 50 second video then I ever have just trying to figure it out myself.
this is internet gold thank you for posting this I also subbed and I will follow you on Instagram!!
That is accurate and a relevant compensation for forward caster, aside from initial steering input, but on a drift car you aren’t overly concerned with the confident feel of the feed back during initial turn in
I wonder if Adam Lz watches your vids ..
This helped so much in CarX drifting
Well...I was educated. Thank you for taking the time out for this reality update on the topic.
One thing I don’t fully understand ( I’ve had some but little real life experience working on real drift cars) but my understanding is you want less grip at the front when on lock so the rear end can catch the slide.
This popped up in my suggestions and I fully expected the Bro attitude to this. So I went "humour me" and then you appear on-screen well versed in the topic and I am left seriously reevaluating my stereotypes over here.
I wanna start drifting next year, and i’m binge watching these as much as i can to prepare lol! This was great, i learned so much
Did you start drifting this year?
Something to add is that the caster affect works best for grip set ups where the outside front wheel is take all the load, so gaining dynamic camber is a good thing. Drift set ups are opposite because like the guys says the lead wheel is now you primary focus. Good explanation!!
Ive been watching your Offbeat Garage videos since you first started drifting and building the first 240. I really like you education and knowledge behind what you do to your car instead of just throwing shit at a car and saying it's going to work! I don't drift, I like drag racing but alignment angles are just as important in both areas. Love the video's still!
It's nice when someone on youtube actually knows what he is saying
2:43 Can you give a more thorough explanation of how caster is effected by suspension geometry? If I understand correctly positive caster (tilting the steering axis rearward) adds negative camber at lock on the outside tire, and positive camber at lock to the inside tire. I believe that aftermarket knuckles (hubs) often give you some adjustment, but I don't understand what you said here about 'false caster trail'. If it is the case that the mounting point of the the hub (the spindle) is forward of the ball joint and the coil-over mount, then it seems to me that would add a totally untenable amount of negative caster. So I must be misunderstanding something....
Centripetal force is tangent to the circle, not away from it. That would be to the side and slightly to the front of the car, not towards the rear
Thanks for the explanation. I kinda feel like it was partially in response to my comment about stretching the tires so it wouldn't rub the front fenders. Good information and it makes sense now. Looking forward to more videos! You've come a long way since i first started watching.
Stretched tires actually also provide another benefit for drift cars other than more fender clearance. When stretched, the tires gain lateral stiffness since the sidewalls are diagonal which makes them not snap as hard into grip and slide easier/smoother to the sides.
Edit: fender clearance isn't actually a legit benefit since you can easily run a more narrow rim to fit the tires and still not have any rubbing issues.
Thanks for your explanations. First time I see someone explain it while actually showing how their wheels actually move.
I've been trying to explain this to a couple of friends, and yet they always look at me like an alien. Now I got a proper video to show them to prove my point! With this I can now SHOW the difference between a drifter's camber/caster setup and those idiots running 20-25 degrees of negative camber on their street cars...
Thanks!
:P
turmat01 lol 40 degrees camber
This is such an amazing good explanation of your alignment, I was just impressed and then more so the longer you kept instructing. Nice work. have a good run on the track.
Saw your vid yesterday, tuned my drift rc came back to thank you for sharing your wisdom with us! My car drifts so good!
As a car lover I seriously appreciate your informative video, this is the way TH-cam should be, not combative and juvenile.
Hey Adel, could you do another video in regards to the changes you made to your suspension recently? I know you seemed pretty happy with the changes but I didn't quite catch everything you did beyond raising the front end. Thanks so much, and hello from Texas (when you gonna come down???).
This is some of the best info ive ever heard, in my life.. Thanks Offbeat for the bomb ass content.
great video man, Lots of good knowledge
Thanks :)
this actually makes me not hate camber anymore, thanks.
Just a thought. Running very high tyre pressures will cause a tyre to wear more in the middle as the tyre will balloon. Although if your drifting a car with low power you're probably using cheap part worn tyres so tyre wear isn't that big of an issue. Nice vid :)
You'd think that would happen but it doesn't. Tire wears out evenly from one side to another. Also I always run brand new tires. Thanks :)
I have an eunos roadster(Miata) 1.6 so I need all the help I can get 😂 bout 85 psi in the rear in the dry.
Hahah there ya go!
my c33 has probably negative 5 or 6 degrees of camber and in daily circumstances it isnt a big issue as i am simply not going fast enough on the road to cause any affect on brake performance. in fact it handles better than stock. in fact i could even go with 3 degrees more camber to make my tyres wear evenly and this is in daily conditions. not hating on you or trying to prove you wrong this is just my experiences. cheers yo!
Hey dude just a heads up the geometry you're talking about here which flattens the wheel isn't camber it's mostly steering axis inclination. SAI with wheels pointing forward effects your camber, but both geometries completely part ways as soon as you turn the wheels. Camber can be added either via extending the upper or lower links, or changing the axis inclination which for a Mac Strut vehicle like this it's the coilover clevis.
You do not need to run -10 degrees of camber to improve your contact patch, you are able to change your SAI at the clevis and correct for that effect on camber via the upper or lower links. With high amounts of camber you tend to lose feel in the front end and can create vagueness. Camber itself is typically used to create camber thrust, which is essentially what it sounds, a cornering thrust provided by the angle of the wheel resisting the lateral forces of the car.
Really decent video man!
+inertiaMS Thanks for the info Stewy, always much appreciated coming from you :)
No worries man, probably the most in depth video on the subject i've seen, and really easy to understand, good work!
Thanks man, that was the goal!
Great explanation! I knew the technical precision was high before the mention of vector diagrams, but that just drove it home 👌😎
Thanks man :)
Bro I've watched all you videos from the start and the knowledge that you have is amazing !
Great video! Thanks for the info and lesson. I wish the trend of ridiculous camber on street cars would just stop but I now get it for track specific drift cars.
Honest question. Why such a wide wheel on the rear with stretched tires and spacers? I mean if you want more grip wouldn't you want a wider tire with straight sidewall instead of less contact with a stretched tire? Meaning wouldn't it make sense to run no spacer and unstretched tires? Just curious
thanks. learn something new every day. I just can't figure out why some of these cars have so much negative camber that the inside of the rim is the only thing touching the ground.
That right there is just a stance show car type thing lol
I need the old intro, it was just perfect, bring it back for nex vid plz
Yeah it was using the old logo in the animation though which is why I stopped using it. Then I went back to change it and all the files are corrupt now for whatever reason so basically I have to redo that whole thing to bring it back. Maybe a little weekend project would be to make a new one, how's that sound?
Yeah!! Do it! Sound like a great idea!!
Pd: love your videos and all the work you'v done keep it up!!
WiseRiver59 Haha alright, I'll try to make something this weekend then. Thanks for the support
Great, I'm looking forward to it!!!!
And it's imposible not to support this awesome content
Great info but could you explain the stretched tyres? yes I understand to clear fenders etc but why not just choose the correct offset wheels to begin with?
+Mrx1080 Stretching tires has nothing to do with clearing fenders on my car. It's like an 80% aesthetic choice and the other 20% is the benefit of stiffer sidewalls for increased response.
are u gonna boost ur car? i think u should run like 300 thats a fun number to drive :)
Yessir, will end up being between 300-350HP when done :)
u gonna keep the ka?
Yuss
Can't wait to see your engine build videos.
Davis Campbell Me too haha
I am really interested into drifting so I want to know what should do as a beginner. Especially which car to buy and whats important when looking for one.
This is a much better explanation than engineering explained
The hubs are moved rearwards in wisefab knuckles, not forward.
Just out of interest, is there a use for induced roll steer at the rear in drift cars? I was thinking that it may help to increase the 'flick' angle, just a split second before the drift actually starts. Obviously after the tires break traction, any body roll is somewhat reduced, so the steer effect is negated, until the next directional flick.
Once I'd learned about it, I always used to build it into my RC cars since around 1980.
most drive just with hard spring rates. Some drifters use big anti roll bars (like in circuit racing) especially in the font to reduce body roll.
dude bruh how dare you say im unedumecated on drift camber bruh, you cereally offended me bruh. JK good video man
Hahahah
MIND BLOWN... now i also understand those memes with extreme exaggerated front camber and 0 in the rear
another reason why pro cars dial down their PSI so low is tire Hysteria... since rubber is an insulator of heat and temperature is a direct influence of tire pressure... they dial the pressure down because they know the heat they create from the load and friction they generate from the tire will cause the air to expand both quickly and significantly... and since tires are very good insulators, thus being hard to cool down, they factor in how long it will take for the tire to heat up and cool down versus how much time they spend actually in use before they change them... but there could be other factors included too, like lets say tire blankets... you can set them to be at a certain temperature before they even hit the track so the idea of hysteria is practically eliminated... however, I'm not sure about regulations regarding blankets and budget limitations too so that may not even be considered.
Honestly, at the start of the video I saw that negative camber and immediately thought "not another stance moron". Good video, glad to be proven wrong....
Extremely informative video. Knowing nothing about drifting, this was a great primer and explained everything I wanted to know. Thank you for posting
First kinda don't get it but then I realise that drifting work on counter steer. As you go left the right wheel kinda turn left with very small slip angle.
Is there a vid on what you did to get all that angle ?
so i get the part where the centripetal forces of a grip car are perpendicular and why they can run more negative camber. but i dont understand the way the forces differ to drift cars.
Because the car is sliding. Changes the vector towards the rear of the tire instead of the side.
OOOOOOOOOOOOO SHIT yeah yeah. That makes more sense. so you dont have as much force acting perpendicular to the wheels because it's not gripping the ground so it wont roll onto the wheel and cancel out the camber ... right ?
Quick question regarding your overfenders at the rear of the 240! do we need to cut off the old fender, so the rear wheels won't rub on it?? or simply you roll it a little bit?
Cut it up and weld it so the wheel doesn't hit. Rolling it a bit won't give enough clearance.
Camber doesn't need to be that much, you can run around 3 degrees camber or even less, change the caster forward more and use a trailing knuckle and still have a flatter contact patch through out your whole steering. If I remember, I thought people ran so much camber was for clearance when angle kits started being developed more. Now they move the top hats and extend the arms together to not have that much camber and have more inner clearance now days.
was that irwindale speedway in that clip?
thanks from a master tech and a former autoxer that was very informative and cleared things up for me
Wow that's a crazy amount of pressure in the rear tires, do you run more normal pressure in the front
In the front usually anywhere from 25-40 depending on the type of tire and how the track feels that day.
I'M 58 Y.O.A. AND WANT TO "THANK YOU" FOR EXPLAINING THOSE ALIGNMENT MEANINGS TO ME. NO ONE OUT HERE IN THE CENTER OF NEBRASKA UNDERSTOOD IT. (LOL)
Bumping up tyre pressure is a burnout car trick I have seen people use... they go off when the tyre pops tho
Straight to the point!! Probadly the most giving video I've ever seen on YT.
Keep it up bro! Subbed and liked.
dude, another in depth vid. so informative. didn't know you run so little hp in you car either!
+OffBeat Garage
very interesting video!
Does even front and rear toe adjustments change the behavior of the car in drifting or you dont need to touch it?
thanks :D
One question about rear camber; say I put down over 300 ftlbs to the rear wheels and my trans is rated to about 300. Running about 40 psi in the rear with -1 camber in the rear could be safer for the trans than -0.5 or neutral?
what's up bro,I just wanted to ask a few questions if I may, I have an 2002 acura cl type S, it's my daily Drive and I want to put -camber on it for the look but also want to get the most performance out of my tires and turning ,what degree should i put the front cambers too and what degrees should I put the rear campers too,i want it noticeable with negative camber but also want the most surface space and performance as possible?
Great video. You know your stuff, and I learned a lot, thanks. You did cover the alternatives well, such as the front sliding, which should be rolled into the Ackerman discussion, and choice in rear, but i'd like to elaborate. I think the rear camber vs. PSI at rear tires can also be better the other way, depending on car, power, surface, etc. You are mimicking the set-up of a high powered pro car that has tire restrictions, but in a non-turbo/very low powered car, requiring you to crank PSI. In some way you are satisfying the need to get the "pro look" lol. It may seem like a nuisance to flip tire, but you may be able to get twice the use of tire by cambering and running lower psi to give grip. it also changes the feel, and breakaway character, which may be better, or not, depends.
If u run zero camber, but have to pump psi up to degrip, the higher psi will increase heat and accelerate wear, even to the point of premature catastrophic chunking, and losing a good tire very early( thou usu. not in KA, beacause low power), but in any even low powered turbo car aka. SR20det or VQ car, u will destroy tires at those high pressures. Also, just using a 205 or 195 stretched on same rims would be better way to degrip at zero rear camber, thus using cheaper tire at lower tire saving pressures, perhaps.
a justification for what i usually think is nutty camber. thanks for the vid!
Very informative video. good job dude
I was trying to understand caster 😕
Wasn’t much talk about caster. Does positive caster move the wheel to the front or the back of the car and what’s best for drifting
Positive caster pivots the steering axis to the rear. Here's a comparison example, assuming both cars have no camber when the wheels point straight:
Car A (stock caster): 5° of positive camber on steering lock
Car B (positive caster): 10° of positive camber on steering lock
In drifting, you'd want some positive caster to allow the car to self-steer more quickly when you're transitioning between drifts. Running stock caster is OK if you want to see how quickly it self-steers when stock.
This is why you'll see pro-level drift cars featuring more negative camber than grassroots drift cars' because their caster value is more positive, so they need more negative camber to offset for the positive caster made at 90 - 100% steering input.
Good drift setup for max front grip, get rid of your ackerman angle on your knuckles
I have 0 ackerman on this knuckle setup. I'm not changing that. Thanks though
***** That why i stated that decent drift setups "get rid of" ackerman...read the comment correctly, In your video you didn't even get into ackerman and why and what it does!
That's cause this video addressed camber and camber only. Ackerman would be discussed in the video about toe.
*****
Although Ackerman is relevant to toe, but only while steering (at angle) this would be a great vid to do, because you explain things pretty well to people who may not understand 100%
Eventually I'll cover the topic :)
SAI is more important to getting the camber gains you want than Caster, Less SAI and more caster would allow you to run less static camber but still get your camber gains.
you look familiar man! did you buy this car and start building it on here and then find all weird camber and caster etc then correct it and realise it threw the wheels out and then showed you had a bent frame? if so i watched the start of them and lost my wifi and your account name over time and couldnt find the videos, if its you damn happy i found you
I didnt think i would learn anytjing going in but i did! Thanks!
Ok what about toe and caster for a dd/ drift event car ?
yoooo you live in. LA? as soon as I'm done with my ls Swap in my Vert we gotta tear it up
Serious question doing the alignment for my z , how bad will the front tire wear if I run -2-3 degrees of camber in the front and 1/8 toe out
On my old e36 I bought it with much angle but the fitment was really messed up and after further inspection my dad found out it had a shorter front subframe I got a really good amount of angle with out hitting anything but I didn't run that much camber so when I tried to do a fast entry I would lose all speed and spin out a lot on the track can some one explain what I should have done because I sold it and got another one that I wanna do every thing my self on
Lots of knowledge, well explained, made it easy to understand. Hats off
I seriously didn't know that, but what about the people who put it on their front wheel drive Hondas?
Style.
Tony Flamingo well that's for track, if you don't use it for track or if it's excessive then it's horrible and should be fixed or burned.
Ive been watching alot of your videos lately and i gotta say they are really informative! keep up the good work!!
Damn dude i used to see your videos when you still had your other 240 then got the other 240 that was shitty af (idk if its not this black one) and then i also saw like your very first time attempting to drift and now i come back and you already got the hang of it and everything! Thats crazy dude but congrats man its very noticeable that all your hard work has been paying off
im not really into drifting but i really like these videos. keep up the good work
well done man, you have come a long way keep it up
I'm assuming this is a 240sx which are normally fr drive cars so I would also assume the camber is in alignment with that. What would the camber difference be for ff drive and aw drive cars?
If you're talking about grip driving setups, it's more or less the same for all layouts. All wheels have some negative camber, maybe a little more for the front wheels.