Mindful but also playful, at the moment when the mass shifts to the front you can get more rotation out of the car than you would cornering only using steering.
Had an RT Durango thats was prone sometimes, but due to more body roll. Have an open diff, & a staggered setup with good TC in my IS350, I'm thinkin it would be hard to unless high speed corner, in which its not set up for anyhow.
I've been driving rear-wheel drive over 50 years and if you drive it like a Porsche you won't have any problems just remember slow in fast out that's the only way that it is absolutely going to work 100% of the time
@@f.kieranfinney457trail braking and slip angle are the fastest when combined but also when using slip angle you can over do it, and make the slip angle a drift which is slow out but medium/fast mid corner, or you can under do it?/not brake/steer enough, so you use trail braking but you sre too slow/not enough steering to make slip angle work so you understeer Also slip angle is not perfect bcs its more risky than just be little slower, in more sporty cars you have very low space for error when you doing it in long turns, its also easier in short term, like in f1 when they use slip angle in fast and short corners, they use it almost all the time.
Another key thing to consider is smooth inputs. Whether its, throttle, brake, or steering angle.. smooth inputs won't upset the car nearly as much as quick and heavy inputs.
That's exactly what I keep in mind when I drive. Don't press the throttle all the way at once, just the same as you don't stomp on the brakes. You can still drive fast and spirited with smooth inputs; sometimes it even adds to the experience
Very well done. I've been driving FWD all my life (not by choice) and recently had the opportunity to drive a BMW 318d touring. It totally resonated within as the RIGHT driving setup. Look forward buying a RWD car as soon as possible. Best wishes
FWD really depends on the type of car. Most FWD cars (including most older hot hatches) arent that exciting to drive, because they are designed to be understeery (easier for non-car people) and they lack the most important part: an LSD. A FWD hot hatch with a proper setup and LSD is a night and day difference. When I started getting aggressive in my i30N for the first time I nearly hit the inside curb, because I was expecting the car to understeer like my previous hot hatch and not turn in perfectly.
@@xXYannuschXxYes FWD+ LSD is a legitimate setup. However FWD cars are inherently flawed. All FWD cars hang the majority of the vehicle’s weight on the nose of the car which is bad for accelerating. And then there’s the issue with demanding that the front wheels both turn and apply power. Cars like the i30N, Civic Type R, and other hot hatches have done wonders to mitigate those effects, but at the end of the day, getting out of a FWD car and into a RWD car is always a night and day difference.
@@Soh90 " However FWD cars are inherently flawed. " - Not really. Depending on the conditions and tracks FWD cars can have advantages over RWD cars. Nissan for an example even tried a Le Mans FWD car (which sadly failed due to numerous technical issues and caused Nissan to retreat from the LMP1 class). The biggest advantage is the "point and shoot" characteristics of FWD, which can allow the driver to use more aggressive driving techniques and/or drive more consistently. Fun fact: with RC cars there once was a FWD buggy platform, which was rediculed back then, but when the first people used them for racing they won easily against the RWD ones. The problem got so bad they had to put the FWD buggies into the AWD class.
I would like to add 2 important "safety" point for public road spirited driving: 1. Only drive up to 90% of your ability. Most people overestimate their driving ability, especially in high HP cars. 2. Let faster drivers pass you. This is especially important when you are in a older car that have no ABS and Airbag. I always had people in SUV and Pickup truck trying to chase me on the hill. One time, a Landcruiser almost spun out behind me when I was on a twisty downhill in my ND MX5, in the end I let him passed for his own safety. I could had easily out run him but it wasn't worth it. I was there to have fun, not tragedy. Now I have an FC RX7, I don't care if a semi truck wants to overtake me on the hill. This car is too precious to me. 😂
Growing up driving an F150 with the gear shift on the steering column, it was a LOT of fun to downshift during a corner on a dirt road to snap the pickup around and then hit the gas once you got it settled. Just had to make sure there wasn’t a fence nearby until you learned how to do it. Untangling a pickup truck from a fence is a pain and dads really don’t like scratches on their trucks.
This is some of the most important rules I try to teach my friends when we go for racing together, and they keep sliding their bmws and then blaming their cars, this video is perfect !!!!
Whilst I already knew all of these concepts, I only knew as far as "Don't do [this] but do [that] instead, or you're going to have a very bad day." The grip points system really gave me a much deeper understanding of why you lose control. Thanks, this really helped.
Well thats just how driving was, until about 25-30 years ago. You learned these principles pretty quickly in old RWD cars with power, because you HAD TO! haha
Having owned way more RWD cars than I have FWD, I've always found RWD intuitive. FWD I struggle with their lack of adjustability on circuit but they're definitely not slow when driven well
They absolutely are not slow when driven wheel, but against a RWD car they always will be. Easiest and most accurate way to test this PRINCIPLE out is in driving simulator that has great driving physics, like GT7 and then using a 4WD car that allows you to adjust the Torque distribution of the drivetrain as you want. Send the power all the way to the front axle, and you will have understeer pretty much anywhere, having higher lap times than sending it all the way to the rear axle. In fact, depending on the car, they can actually go faster on a circuit with power all the way to the rear vs a 60/40 4WD split.
@@pedinhuh16 "They absolutely are not slow when driven wheel, but against a RWD car they always will be." - That depends on a car. TCR cars with ~340 HP have similar laptimes to GT4 cars that are more powerful (often 400+ HP). Your example of changing the front/rear torque distribution in a 4WD is interesting but it doesn't account that RWD and FWD cars are built and set up differently in order to better utilize the strengths of their drivetrain and better compensate for their drawbacks.
Great quality for a first video; congrats! I pretty knew all this already since I've been driving for 32 years, but instructional videos like this one are a must see for many (not so good) drivers out there. I subscribed to encourage you to release more great content like this!
This video should be MANDATORY viewing for every Mustang driver out there. It seems the majority of them are not familiar with any of these concepts! haha My old E36 328i manual with no traction control taught me a lot of this stuff about 20 years ago. Fun car. Kinda dangerous, but fun.
Maybe you need to drive more cars then…some are harder to do certain things than other. You’re pretty much assuming you could whip the old mustangs like your Beamer…you think you’re different
@@notlohhcaz No thats not what I was saying. I wasn't making a direct comparison between the cars, or saying that I was inherently better. Just noting the very obvious lack of skill so many Mustang drivers seem to display in attempting to handle their cars. Admittedly the same could be said of some BMW drivers too, especially more recently. But there must be a reason Mustung drivers are the butt of so many jokes.
@@soundseeker63 I got you but to answer your last sentence. It’s the car…combined with drivers that don’t have the skill. So both. The way it’s been explained to me is that the older models with live axle tend to be easier to whip out but recovering can be very hard for somebody without lots of practice. I wasn’t much making a car comparison, I was just saying that could be you with your current skill level if you hopped in one even if you could whip your BMW. I just wouldn’t be cocky is all
i don't even own a car, and i won't for years. but that knowledge will help me pass the drivers license easily. at least i hope so. if i don't forget it. . . That's why i watch these vids daily! make more because everything you say is easy to understand, the video is well edited making it easier to watch. You rock dude!
You will not need this for the driving test. That would be a dream scenario if they included stuff like this! I am glad you are already taking an interest. Be safe and be smart.
Yeahh to the creator. this is a really really really well explained video! Beautiful really. And to you - Remember to drive gently and not make sudden jerky movements and obviously make sure you know and carry out all the laws and regulations and you should ace it :)
liftoffs in rwd is when rear tires experience engine braking, it is more like pulling the hand brakes for a moment. liftoff happens to fwd as well, it is when front tires regain grip again suddenly with a weight shift to the front that makes the rear a bit lighter and more grip at front. this one is easy to overcome, just floor it, don't counter steer too much and you will be fine.
Great video. I have had a few snap oversteers during autocross events, with full 360 degree spins in the blink of an eye. The car is a 2004 Porsche Boxster S on Hoosier A7 near slicks. Situation is driving right at the limit, trying to delay hard braking a bit too late into a hard corner, discovering I should have hit the brakes a bit earlier. So, when I lift off the gas suddenly to get on the brakes, I’ve demanded too much of the rear tire grip. The things I’ve adjusted are loosening the rear stabilizer bar a bit, going one size wider on the rear tires, and trying to overcome the fear I won’t make the corner so I can trust the tires, suspension and car balance and make it around. If I don’t, I only suffer a few cone hits and don’t score on that lap. Of course, next few laps I’ll hit the brakes a little earlier on that same corner so I can settle the car before the maximum cornering force is demanded of the tires. In this car for autocross, the entire course can be run in 2nd gear with no clutch demands. On a track, at higher speed, I drive a GT4 with autoblip, which mitigates part of the challenge here, as downshifts are rev-matched by the ECU. I tend to do more of my high speed braking before hard turn in so that the apex and corner exit are more steady on the grip challenges. With a little bit of trailbraking, to assist the rotation, these higher speed corners in the GT4 feel great from the driver’s seat. That said, my instructors with Porsche mid-engine experience tell me it’s only a matter of time before I experience a snap oversteer event from driving at the limit - that I should always have that possibility in mind approaching every corner.
Good video. Raced and Rallied for a number of years when i was younger. Always do your braking in a straight line and power through and out of the corner.
Based on the simplistic, beginner nature of the video presentation...it is something to be avoided for the target audience, until they get some slow practice in a safe place. Even beginner track enthusiast get taught to brake in a straight line prior to turn in, at least until they start to get the hang of things and the feel of their car. Almost all of us have been off into the grass backwards as we started learning to trail brake. Getting good at it means learning how to smoothly implement it at the right time, for just the right amount of time, getting just the right amount of rotation in a smooth and controlled fashion to affect a small correction as necessary. You SHOULD be pointing the car at he apex of the corner 95% accurately without it anyway, with the real goal of the trail braking simply to allow braking later, with the ability to use it for small corrections when required being secondary.
@@xtnuser5338 If your not using every tool you have to position your car, someone else who is will be passing you. Not much of a problem on your daily commute, but at any kind of competitive event the point is to be faster than the other guy. You can't leave anything on the table if you want to win.
I learned all this on my racing sim setup. Here in Southern California most spirited driving areas are on the sides of mountains with 100+ft drops. It’s so important to know before you total your car, or even worse. Hurt yourself, or someone else.
A lot of high speed / high RPM corner stuff involves doing unorthodox things like left foot braking while keeping the right foot on the gas, but how hard or soft depends on whether you're going uphill or downhill.
Trail brake can be usefull (but dangerous) on agressive sports driving to be faster. You can downshift while cornering if revmatching perfectly and fast, with a car you know well (that is without rear diff weirdness). PDK owners probably do it all the time, and conventional TC autos without you telling (not the video point I know). Non-double clutch robotized might upset balance. Pressing the clutch gets all tires rotating at contact speed, which might help regain traction if handled gently (in ice works great). 4WD allows you to escape most the limitations...
Great review. I already knew this, but it’s always good to refresh your knowledge. While watching this video I kept thinking about how none of this is taught in driving school in the US, at least as I recall. These are considered _advanced driving techniques,_ but really every driver should know these points because many of us will unexpectedly encounter them during normal driving. As for traction control, I think I picked up this concept from motorcycle training, but it applies to cars too. _You can either brake or steer, pick one._ Tires aren’t very good at doing both at the same time. Brake before a turn/curve, steer through it, and accelerate out of it. Techniques like trail braking should be reserved for race tracks because they leave little room for unexpected hazards on the roadway.
My best advice is practice all this stuff on autocross days they're relatively affordable, and they're in parking lots that are normally local to you. In the worst case scenario you hit some of the cones and suffer a little bit of embarrassment however you get to drive your car home. Track driving is One step above this, more expensive (time prep and cost) and is relatively safe. However practicing this stuff on a b road or canyon you are asking if not begging for something bad to happen. It may not even be your fault people Cross Lanes all the time, and all it takes is for them to clip you or for you to panic and you are in a really bad situation. There people in your life that would be devastated if something happened to you. If you don't feel like you have people like this in your life. Know that some random guy on the internet, cares about you 😁 Stay safe ❤
And those deer tend to be out… or areas where they put the cows out… Cow vs car is pretty ugly!! I always drive the same section 2x after some recon, but never > 80-85%
I damaged my first car by hitting a deer, it ran out from the side and the road was wet, I kinda just froze and braked gently and hit it going about 20MPH. because I didn't want to lock up the brakes and slide nor did I want to swerve because the road was built on the side of a mountain... Smashed my headlight surround a bit on it's rear end and it just ran off seemingly unharmed... Spoiled a 1980 model car that was in real nice condition at it's age. I was pretty upset... There was deer poo sprayed all up my bonnet too, it literally crapped itself lol.
Gotta say i had a blast driving back my NC MX5 from Italy to France on small roads, with the trunk loaded of heavy things, worn out summer tire and going on some snowy mountain roads... And it reflect perfectly what you said in the video about all those possible cause for the rear to spin out
As a car turns the majority of grip caused by static friction transfers into kinetic friction and this lowers the grip and the threshold of grip/slide. This leads to a very practical advice : when you feel your speed is too high when entering a curve you have to turn immidiately even more towards the corner ( to the point of loosing the grip), then unturn your stearing to staighten the line you drive and simultanously press your brakes fast but not too hard ( left foot braking useful ), then without braking continue on the curve as you need. This technik gives you more room for the manouver, creates better conditions for quick and effective braking and allows you to acknowledge where the critical point of grip/slide actualy is. The only important thing is to coordinate these actions properly in time. It saved me several times but I must say clearly - it needs training and adjusting to the car and performed in full speed may lead to a disaster at the first time.
With Front wheel drive I tend to back off my throttle on entry to corners and seem to have better overall control of the car, it seems to stay more stable (ie. flat) and the back end just flows around beautifully.
Roll throttle, roll steering wheel, roll brakes. Always roll on and off when possible. Be light and gentle with your inputs. In a straight line you can sap off the clutch and gas all you want, but always roll on gas and steering no matter what.
I believe the downshift in corners one is actually used to initiate oversteer for drifting and rally sometimes, its called shift lock. If i remember correctly, Keiichi Tsuchiya used this technique
As an advanced trained driver, I wouldn't recommend heel and toe on the road. Rev matching is a good start, but mastering double de-clutching is the best method to practice and will protect your clutch and gearbox at the same time.
@@Aleiza_49 Double clutching is essentially rev matching but saves wear on your clutch and gearbox. You can do it all day long on your road car without messing up the syncros in the box. It's actually smother than a simple rev match as well, as you're correctly aligning the whole transmission to the engine.
More please this is great. I tried my heel and toe as i once did in my Audi of many years back. I nearly broke my nose on the windscreen. Modern cars are now equipped with maximum brake force and counteract that with abs. No fun anymore.
I have a 71 f100 with a mild built 390fe, t19 manual and a full spool in the rear. Power sliding is how I get it around turns, to keep from from snaping another axle and gives max control for the turn. This means ploting out a turn before hand and set desired speed before hand, so if I need to slow down I will no lift down shift and then back back off the throttle some to engine brake before hand. This ensure I do not loose control of steering and is predictable where Im piching the rear if needed, and keeping a higher rpm means can back off the throttle more to slow down more if needed. It is also important to keep as much distance from objects as possible, so if there ends up being more steer than desired I dont have to rush a correction. Say the rear wanted to pich more because it hit a wet spot, I will back off the trottol first, wait a second or two before corecting the steering, and then get back in the throttol if needed. I know how to and have had to dirve it before, in snow and ice conditions with no traction drifting the hole way to the destination. In those condition, slow and stead is the best path to take so that control is maintained. So basically I do not use the brakes much unless wanting to come to a full stop, and will down shift through each gear with no trottol till Im back in 1st or 2nd before braking. Also is good to know the engagement point of the clutch, since is as far as the clutch needs bliped to get it in a gear and can leave a gear with out touching the clutch. As for steering, if rear is pitching one way the steering gose the other way. So if I want to get the rear to pitch in a desired direction, I steer out slightly from the turn, then I will blip the trottole to get the rear loose as Im lightly steering into the turn, then wiped the wheel the other direction and then slowly recenter till I have control of the slide.
Useful information, increasingly important as car technology increases. My Volvo V60 Hybrid can be FWD, RWD or AWD changing modes seamlessly depending on the propulsion system selected as the petrol engine drives the front axle and the electric motor drives the rear or both ends can be driven simultaneously. Fortunately the chassis engineers did a fine job in maintaining a very neutral balance for all modes with a pretty good turn in, essential given the combined 400bhp the vehicle can offer.
I grew up in rainy Washington state, used my car to get me to school, work, snowboarding, mountain biking, and hunting. My 1st car was an 6 speed, LS powered Catfish, I mean Camaro, then I went through 2 regular cab short box, manual transmission, 350 Vortec 5700 then 5.3 LS, pickup trucks. Then I had a BMW E36 3 series in Germany, a 3.6 stick shift 2 door JK rubicon. Another 5.3 RCSB 5speed pickup, 5 spd 4.0 Ranger FX4 level II, my 1st automatic a VQ powered 2001 Nissan Pathfinder, Canyon Duramax, and currently a 6 speed manual Xterra proX4. The only time i've ever slid off a road was during a snowstorm in a front wheel drive car. You can really feel the difference in rear wheel grip and how the vehicle rolls during the start of the turn. I thought not being able to turn the car using the gas pedal was a giant handycap until I figured out you can drift FWD cars by using left foot braking.
Basically in an RWD car, always let the steering wheel to telegram its wilingness to unwind on its own when accelerating or lifting. It will 'talk' to you after some time and will tell you if it was too much steering or throttle. But one can always expect that when in a turn, loss of traction (for one reason or another) will most likely induce oversteering. One exception is when you have an LSD that was set up to lock under coast. That might give you understeer when lifting in a corner.
Friend and I have been racing on my rig, a in my breaktime I've seed this video and it helped me to drive at least slightly better, on a first try 🙂 thank you 🙂
Great video! I would add the compromised vehicle stability during costing. Ideally you always want to have either your front or rear suspension/tires under load (accelerating or braking). You have to avoid coasting, especially on curved roads.
Great ... Now I got no excuse for crashing ... Thanks a lot Sorin Quill ! BTW... great video. Enjoyed your accurate insight and it helped . Thanks again !
I was taught to get the car settled in a straight line and then leave the brakes alone and balance it on the throttle to carry as much speed as possible . I was always spinning my tuned Mini Cooper. Always my fault, but the one time my Spitfire swapped ends I was a passenger.
So one question.. is FWD cars are more safe than RWD?? Or does some of these factors also apply to FWD cars? I understand engine braking part difference but we see car out of control crashes mostly in RWD cars only.
FWD cars have more over steering than RWD cars. You can slide a FWD car however you can't drift them meaning once you've made a mistake that has your rear end sliding out on you, you will not have the same level of recovery potential that a RWD car has. This doesn't mean they are bad though. While racing in a time trial this past Friday at Mid-Ohio Raceway Sports Car Course I witnessed a beautifully built Honda Civic set a new record in its class for a 1:30-ish lap time.
so I'm just wondering about the first critical part of the 4 lets say im at the high rpm and I let off the gas completely... it'll oversteer due to the high engine breaking caused by the high rpm right? couldn't I shift a gear up to counter act this and lower the rpm so that there isn't as much engine breaking therefore im able to let off the gas without the consequences of oversteer but just having less power? what are the cons of this?
We should also be aware that counter steering is a two step process in that you must correct after the counter steer to bring the car back under control.
On shifting in curves: of course, don't. Do it before, on the approach, while still in the straight line, and contain the entire procedure, incl. the final releasing of the clutch pedal, before steering in. If too late to do it the right way, give it up - it is less wrong to handle the corner one gear too high and be momentarily underpowered at the exit, than to risk getting unstable due to meddling with the forces midway and applying some abrupt ones (esp. by releasing the clutch following the downshift).
Now you all know more or less the way to start drifting without using handbreake......LOL!!!!! Great job though m8 and really extended version of explaining.....
Very good. We are so muscle memory trained to let off gas in most situations when road driving that you must really practice this carefully. We can’t really practice oversteer anywhere on the road. I wish we could, because lift off oversteer did cost me a car because muscle memory in FWD cars kicked in and I let off. I wish you could legally practice this in parking lots, but we are really limited to the few and far between tracks with skid pad training.
Yes, the limited opportunities for practicing frustrate me too. Habits can be trained on the simulator - the behavior and control (including ergonomics) of your own car can only be trained in real life.
@@SorinQuill yup I use my car in games like Gran turismo and a wheel/manual shifter setup all the time. I so badly want to take my actual car to an empty area and just go wild finding the limits and learn. Can't though because everywhere around me would have police there in a few minutes.
I like to rev match even in my 1.2l econobox Clio because it's fun to do 😆 I can do heel-toe as well if I try very hard but the pedals aren't very well placed for that so I tend to avoid it
Years ago driving an automatic front wheel drive, at the speed limit early morning frosty road. Driving down a small hill then crested the other side lost the back end may be all four tyres. Was in the zone feathering the steering wheel to keep control. Did this for about 400 meters coming up to sharp bend. Split second decision to touch the throttle gained control and managed to drive the bend. There was car coming the other way on this quiet country side road and if I hadn’t touched that throttle I think it would have been a head on collision.
I'm curious, in the first scenario with lift off oversteer, would applying left foot braking gently be a better solution than letting off the throttle at high rpms?
If we must slow down (5:07) or brake (13:09) in the corner, we may use brakes without lift off throttle, then slow lift the throttle while speed decreasing. All these things may be more necessary to use if the car has more neutral characteristics (i.e. when driving at a constant speed in a curve, both axles - front and rear - lose traction at similar speeds). In cars that understeer is strongly (manufacturers prefer to release such popular cars because they are easier to control), these techniques may not be so necessary. However, if someone sets their car to have oversteering characteristics (rather very few sports drivers try to do this), then they are already familiar with these problems and techniques and know how to use both. Another important thing is the abruptness of the change in characteristics, how the car reacts when changing the balance. Despite the understeering characteristics, in the situations discussed in the film, oversteering may occur. This is influenced by many car parameters, including bumpsteer - changing the suspension settings (wheel alignment and camber) when it deflects.
What about cars with 4 wheel steering and semi auto boxes such as my RWD Lexus RC350 F sport coupe? . I don’t drive like a maniac and I have Pilot Sport 4S tyres on it but it doesn’t seem to be losing any grip on corners in any noticeable way. The only way I can get it to break traction under normal conditions is in the wet if I plant the accelerator from the traffic lights. It has a mild tune with an Invidia Quad exhaust but nothing outrageous other than a nice exhaust note many think is too loud. I don’t switch off traction control for the record.
Slow in, fast out may be an old racing concept, however, it does work to help keep control when cornering. So does simply not accelerating during a turn and letting your cars momentum carry you through it assuming your not entering the corner at too high of a speed. At least these are some things I've learned from racing myself.
I use a isuzu trooper 87 carb it's little tune on the carb and it use a/t tires I use downshift on sharp curves that must of regular cars will loose grip at 25 mph and I do it between 45 to 35 mph without risking upcoming traffic and I do it without 4x4 the trick is use the clutch entering the curve to change the weight distribution at the same time you steer earlier than the corner so the front goes first then at half curve you downshift but when you start lifting the clutch ruff you go full throttle all this at the same time your steering the direction you want to go because at high speed you lose traction just use it in your advantage. In front wheel cars, your front loses grip, let go gas and brakes just steer only play with throttle as needed when steering its not working at 100%. All my life has been how fast I can take curves using different cars and have been challenged many times with faster cars, but they can't keep up.
For the braking and turn-in, the optimal is always to induce a neutral steer to the limit, but as mentioned in the video, it is highly skilled and car-dependable.
Same thing for a motorcycle for number 2 in the safety course they tell you never to down shift while cornering as the power will cause the rear tire to slip and go into a lowside that can kill the biker.
Extra weight at first can definitely throw you off, but after you get used to it, you can take corners faster and harder than without the extra weight. Gotta do your math though. For best results, just add enough weight to give your vehicle a 50/50 split. Or as close to 50/50 as possible. Make sure to account for your butt in the front seat.
3 decades as a heavy haulage driver, some very sound advice here, which they really ahould teach people as the learn to drive. People should be taught to drive all three, RWD, FWD and 4WD. The roads wouls be a much safer place to be.
I recently did a quattro manual swap on my Audi FWD CVT... it is a very different car now and I need to relearn how to handle its very different behavior.
i would say those mostly mistake really depend on the car design and set up and how you going to use those weight transfer, lift gas very denpend the suspension height setup, like setup the rear wheel low height to stable the brake, less weight transfer to the front. LSD and tyres grade would help how long to full trottle or half trottle the gas. FR FF MR, totally different. but most people seem to be not going to learn and feel the momentum direction of your car, after you have understand the moentum direction of your car, then you will know how to use those sliding and run your car faster
We drive same car, fk8. Can you do this pls with fwd? Becouse my type r sometimes comes with the rear... but i want it controlled and not randome. So i didn't figure out why sometimes the back is cornering sometimes not. (No engine brake becouse rev match/plip) Sometimes the esp is make it more dangerous, so i turned it off.... onetime i turn 180 in the corner becouse the esp... it dont help me it turn hole car in the corner and brakes strange the wheels wrong alone. Im from Germany and i live @ nurnburgring.
for in my mx5 nb i can only get the rear out when braking hard because i just dont have the power to spinn them, so to drift i steer, brake hard for a split second and then pinn the gaß (even that only works on wet roads because my tires just have too much grip). if you want to drift i´d say get a 2. set of rimms with old and hard tires (less grip) and stick them on the rear so that you dont burn your expensive tires and its more easy to get it sideways.
when braking the weight and mass of the car remains the same but there is a torque around the front wheels that generates a force that lifts the rear so the normal to the surface is reduced thus friction force is lowered but the inertia of the rear remaining the same so it can generate the same force, there is higher chances of losing grip
Well done and good to see AC put to educational use. This is a good explanation of the performance circle that is taught in just about all racing schools.
Essentially, any time the weight gets shifted towards the front axle (removing traction availability in the rear), we need to be mindful.
Yes, thank you!
Mindful but also playful, at the moment when the mass shifts to the front you can get more rotation out of the car than you would cornering only using steering.
@@VexxedSR AKA Trail Braking :)
Exept for front wheel drive cars.
Had an RT Durango thats was prone sometimes, but due to more body roll. Have an open diff, & a staggered setup with good TC in my IS350, I'm thinkin it would be hard to unless high speed corner, in which its not set up for anyhow.
I've been driving rear-wheel drive over 50 years and if you drive it like a Porsche you won't have any problems just remember slow in fast out that's the only way that it is absolutely going to work 100% of the time
I could show you plenty of folks that could screw that up too, lol
And that’s not the fastest technique 100% of the time.
Trail braking allows fast in, fast out.
Yeah but not in a early 911. They are of devil worship and it will claim you every time. Ha ha ha ha
Especially efficient (for the lap time) before a straight, where exit speed is key.
@@f.kieranfinney457trail braking and slip angle are the fastest when combined but also when using slip angle you can over do it, and make the slip angle a drift which is slow out but medium/fast mid corner, or you can under do it?/not brake/steer enough, so you use trail braking but you sre too slow/not enough steering to make slip angle work so you understeer
Also slip angle is not perfect bcs its more risky than just be little slower, in more sporty cars you have very low space for error when you doing it in long turns, its also easier in short term, like in f1 when they use slip angle in fast and short corners, they use it almost all the time.
Another key thing to consider is smooth inputs. Whether its, throttle, brake, or steering angle.. smooth inputs won't upset the car nearly as much as quick and heavy inputs.
That’s in the video mate
That's exactly what I keep in mind when I drive. Don't press the throttle all the way at once, just the same as you don't stomp on the brakes. You can still drive fast and spirited with smooth inputs; sometimes it even adds to the experience
Very well done. I've been driving FWD all my life (not by choice) and recently had the opportunity to drive a BMW 318d touring. It totally resonated within as the RIGHT driving setup. Look forward buying a RWD car as soon as possible. Best wishes
Thank you for your comment. I hope you find a great car with rwd
I like to call Front wheel drive, Wrong wheel drive lol
FWD really depends on the type of car. Most FWD cars (including most older hot hatches) arent that exciting to drive, because they are designed to be understeery (easier for non-car people) and they lack the most important part: an LSD. A FWD hot hatch with a proper setup and LSD is a night and day difference. When I started getting aggressive in my i30N for the first time I nearly hit the inside curb, because I was expecting the car to understeer like my previous hot hatch and not turn in perfectly.
@@xXYannuschXxYes FWD+ LSD is a legitimate setup. However FWD cars are inherently flawed. All FWD cars hang the majority of the vehicle’s weight on the nose of the car which is bad for accelerating. And then there’s the issue with demanding that the front wheels both turn and apply power. Cars like the i30N, Civic Type R, and other hot hatches have done wonders to mitigate those effects, but at the end of the day, getting out of a FWD car and into a RWD car is always a night and day difference.
@@Soh90 " However FWD cars are inherently flawed. " - Not really. Depending on the conditions and tracks FWD cars can have advantages over RWD cars. Nissan for an example even tried a Le Mans FWD car (which sadly failed due to numerous technical issues and caused Nissan to retreat from the LMP1 class). The biggest advantage is the "point and shoot" characteristics of FWD, which can allow the driver to use more aggressive driving techniques and/or drive more consistently.
Fun fact: with RC cars there once was a FWD buggy platform, which was rediculed back then, but when the first people used them for racing they won easily against the RWD ones. The problem got so bad they had to put the FWD buggies into the AWD class.
Make more of these videos. They are excellent in teaching people what happens and why it happens. Makes everybody a better driver.
I am so glad to hear that. :-) It's my first video and I didn't know if this content and style would be in demand.
Yeah, great video mate. Watched it from England, United Kingdom. 👍
I would like to add 2 important "safety" point for public road spirited driving:
1. Only drive up to 90% of your ability. Most people overestimate their driving ability, especially in high HP cars.
2. Let faster drivers pass you. This is especially important when you are in a older car that have no ABS and Airbag.
I always had people in SUV and Pickup truck trying to chase me on the hill. One time, a Landcruiser almost spun out behind me when I was on a twisty downhill in my ND MX5, in the end I let him passed for his own safety. I could had easily out run him but it wasn't worth it. I was there to have fun, not tragedy.
Now I have an FC RX7, I don't care if a semi truck wants to overtake me on the hill. This car is too precious to me. 😂
Stay in the Jinba Ittai zone. Car & driver, together as one. 👌😌
12:51 here’s a tip. It’s spelled BRAKING.
13:51 it’s a Flux CAPACITOR.
@@raftonpounder6696grip points …. This whole video is some manufactured BS.
Growing up driving an F150 with the gear shift on the steering column, it was a LOT of fun to downshift during a corner on a dirt road to snap the pickup around and then hit the gas once you got it settled. Just had to make sure there wasn’t a fence nearby until you learned how to do it. Untangling a pickup truck from a fence is a pain and dads really don’t like scratches on their trucks.
This is some of the most important rules I try to teach my friends when we go for racing together, and they keep sliding their bmws and then blaming their cars, this video is perfect !!!!
Whilst I already knew all of these concepts, I only knew as far as "Don't do [this] but do [that] instead, or you're going to have a very bad day." The grip points system really gave me a much deeper understanding of why you lose control. Thanks, this really helped.
No abs no traction control just skill an balls
1985 Toyota Corolla sounds like a good vehicle for you.
@@completefemboyr.n.g1308 I'll be happy with my m50b28 swapped E30 once its built tbh mate 👌
Well thats just how driving was, until about 25-30 years ago. You learned these principles pretty quickly in old RWD cars with power, because you HAD TO! haha
@@rs5001988 If it fits, I think m54b30 would be a better fit :)
Rwd is just better. no abs no traction control no problem. Don't like finicky fwd steering their like a punishment to drive.
Having owned way more RWD cars than I have FWD, I've always found RWD intuitive. FWD I struggle with their lack of adjustability on circuit but they're definitely not slow when driven well
They absolutely are not slow when driven wheel, but against a RWD car they always will be.
Easiest and most accurate way to test this PRINCIPLE out is in driving simulator that has great driving physics, like GT7 and then using a 4WD car that allows you to adjust the Torque distribution of the drivetrain as you want.
Send the power all the way to the front axle, and you will have understeer pretty much anywhere, having higher lap times than sending it all the way to the rear axle.
In fact, depending on the car, they can actually go faster on a circuit with power all the way to the rear vs a 60/40 4WD split.
@@pedinhuh16 "They absolutely are not slow when driven wheel, but against a RWD car they always will be." - That depends on a car. TCR cars with ~340 HP have similar laptimes to GT4 cars that are more powerful (often 400+ HP).
Your example of changing the front/rear torque distribution in a 4WD is interesting but it doesn't account that RWD and FWD cars are built and set up differently in order to better utilize the strengths of their drivetrain and better compensate for their drawbacks.
@@vsm1456TCR cars are about 100-200 pounds lighter than a typical GT4 car.
BTCC?!!! BMW, Ford, Honda ....
Great quality for a first video; congrats! I pretty knew all this already since I've been driving for 32 years, but instructional videos like this one are a must see for many (not so good) drivers out there. I subscribed to encourage you to release more great content like this!
Yes, you're right about the video's target group. Thank you for your words, even though you already knew everything :-)
This video should be MANDATORY viewing for every Mustang driver out there. It seems the majority of them are not familiar with any of these concepts! haha
My old E36 328i manual with no traction control taught me a lot of this stuff about 20 years ago. Fun car. Kinda dangerous, but fun.
those things are safer than alot of newer cars thats for sure
Are you recommending an AI generated garbage video as a safety guide?
Maybe you need to drive more cars then…some are harder to do certain things than other. You’re pretty much assuming you could whip the old mustangs like your Beamer…you think you’re different
@@notlohhcaz No thats not what I was saying. I wasn't making a direct comparison between the cars, or saying that I was inherently better.
Just noting the very obvious lack of skill so many Mustang drivers seem to display in attempting to handle their cars.
Admittedly the same could be said of some BMW drivers too, especially more recently. But there must be a reason Mustung drivers are the butt of so many jokes.
@@soundseeker63 I got you but to answer your last sentence. It’s the car…combined with drivers that don’t have the skill. So both. The way it’s been explained to me is that the older models with live axle tend to be easier to whip out but recovering can be very hard for somebody without lots of practice. I wasn’t much making a car comparison, I was just saying that could be you with your current skill level if you hopped in one even if you could whip your BMW. I just wouldn’t be cocky is all
I learned all of this by just driving in the snow. It becomes fun when you learn how the car reacts to certain inputs during certain conditions.
i don't even own a car, and i won't for years. but that knowledge will help me pass the drivers license easily. at least i hope so. if i don't forget it. . . That's why i watch these vids daily! make more because everything you say is easy to understand, the video is well edited making it easier to watch. You rock dude!
You will not need this for the driving test. That would be a dream scenario if they included stuff like this! I am glad you are already taking an interest. Be safe and be smart.
Yeahh to the creator. this is a really really really well explained video! Beautiful really.
And to you - Remember to drive gently and not make sudden jerky movements and obviously make sure you know and carry out all the laws and regulations and you should ace it :)
liftoffs in rwd is when rear tires experience engine braking, it is more like pulling the hand brakes for a moment.
liftoff happens to fwd as well, it is when front tires regain grip again suddenly with a weight shift to the front that makes the rear a bit lighter and more grip at front. this one is easy to overcome, just floor it, don't counter steer too much and you will be fine.
Great video. I have had a few snap oversteers during autocross events, with full 360 degree spins in the blink of an eye. The car is a 2004 Porsche Boxster S on Hoosier A7 near slicks. Situation is driving right at the limit, trying to delay hard braking a bit too late into a hard corner, discovering I should have hit the brakes a bit earlier. So, when I lift off the gas suddenly to get on the brakes, I’ve demanded too much of the rear tire grip. The things I’ve adjusted are loosening the rear stabilizer bar a bit, going one size wider on the rear tires, and trying to overcome the fear I won’t make the corner so I can trust the tires, suspension and car balance and make it around. If I don’t, I only suffer a few cone hits and don’t score on that lap. Of course, next few laps I’ll hit the brakes a little earlier on that same corner so I can settle the car before the maximum cornering force is demanded of the tires. In this car for autocross, the entire course can be run in 2nd gear with no clutch demands.
On a track, at higher speed, I drive a GT4 with autoblip, which mitigates part of the challenge here, as downshifts are rev-matched by the ECU. I tend to do more of my high speed braking before hard turn in so that the apex and corner exit are more steady on the grip challenges. With a little bit of trailbraking, to assist the rotation, these higher speed corners in the GT4 feel great from the driver’s seat. That said, my instructors with Porsche mid-engine experience tell me it’s only a matter of time before I experience a snap oversteer event from driving at the limit - that I should always have that possibility in mind approaching every corner.
Good video. Raced and Rallied for a number of years when i was younger. Always do your braking in a straight line and power through and out of the corner.
Lift off oversteer is not something to be avoided, it's a tool in your tool box. Its very useful for pointing the car at the apex of the corner.
Based on the simplistic, beginner nature of the video presentation...it is something to be avoided for the target audience, until they get some slow practice in a safe place. Even beginner track enthusiast get taught to brake in a straight line prior to turn in, at least until they start to get the hang of things and the feel of their car. Almost all of us have been off into the grass backwards as we started learning to trail brake.
Getting good at it means learning how to smoothly implement it at the right time, for just the right amount of time, getting just the right amount of rotation in a smooth and controlled fashion to affect a small correction as necessary. You SHOULD be pointing the car at he apex of the corner 95% accurately without it anyway, with the real goal of the trail braking simply to allow braking later, with the ability to use it for small corrections when required being secondary.
Unless you're very experienced and driving on a circuit it's better to avoid it
@@xtnuser5338 If your not using every tool you have to position your car, someone else who is will be passing you. Not much of a problem on your daily commute, but at any kind of competitive event the point is to be faster than the other guy. You can't leave anything on the table if you want to win.
@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus That's correct, but the target audience of this video is not at the level of trying to win competitive events.
..especially in a FWD. Many novices think FWD cars can't oversteer. TTO is *the* way to get a FWD to rotate into corner entry in performance driving.
I learned all this on my racing sim setup. Here in Southern California most spirited driving areas are on the sides of mountains with 100+ft drops. It’s so important to know before you total your car, or even worse. Hurt yourself, or someone else.
A lot of high speed / high RPM corner stuff involves doing unorthodox things like left foot braking while keeping the right foot on the gas, but how hard or soft depends on whether you're going uphill or downhill.
Trail brake can be usefull (but dangerous) on agressive sports driving to be faster.
You can downshift while cornering if revmatching perfectly and fast, with a car you know well (that is without rear diff weirdness). PDK owners probably do it all the time, and conventional TC autos without you telling (not the video point I know). Non-double clutch robotized might upset balance.
Pressing the clutch gets all tires rotating at contact speed, which might help regain traction if handled gently (in ice works great).
4WD allows you to escape most the limitations...
" Trail brake can be usefull (but dangerous) on agressive sports driving to be faster." You can be dangerous too after 10 pints of vodka. 😅
Great review. I already knew this, but it’s always good to refresh your knowledge. While watching this video I kept thinking about how none of this is taught in driving school in the US, at least as I recall. These are considered _advanced driving techniques,_ but really every driver should know these points because many of us will unexpectedly encounter them during normal driving.
As for traction control, I think I picked up this concept from motorcycle training, but it applies to cars too. _You can either brake or steer, pick one._ Tires aren’t very good at doing both at the same time. Brake before a turn/curve, steer through it, and accelerate out of it. Techniques like trail braking should be reserved for race tracks because they leave little room for unexpected hazards on the roadway.
My best advice is practice all this stuff on autocross days they're relatively affordable, and they're in parking lots that are normally local to you.
In the worst case scenario you hit some of the cones and suffer a little bit of embarrassment however you get to drive your car home.
Track driving is One step above this, more expensive (time prep and cost) and is relatively safe. However practicing this stuff on a b road or canyon you are asking if not begging for something bad to happen.
It may not even be your fault people Cross Lanes all the time, and all it takes is for them to clip you or for you to panic and you are in a really bad situation.
There people in your life that would be devastated if something happened to you. If you don't feel like you have people like this in your life. Know that some random guy on the internet, cares about you 😁
Stay safe ❤
And those deer tend to be out… or areas where they put the cows out… Cow vs car is pretty ugly!!
I always drive the same section 2x after some recon, but never > 80-85%
@@07wrxtr1 do you think hitting a a cow and a dear is bad. Wait till you see car versus moose... Yikes 😬
I damaged my first car by hitting a deer, it ran out from the side and the road was wet, I kinda just froze and braked gently and hit it going about 20MPH. because I didn't want to lock up the brakes and slide nor did I want to swerve because the road was built on the side of a mountain... Smashed my headlight surround a bit on it's rear end and it just ran off seemingly unharmed... Spoiled a 1980 model car that was in real nice condition at it's age. I was pretty upset... There was deer poo sprayed all up my bonnet too, it literally crapped itself lol.
@@NickGreiner1988 that gives a whole new meaning to scaring the s*** out of somebody 🤣
But I'm glad you're okay, cars are replaceable you're not ❤️
Best video I have seen. Finally understand how rear drive car handle works.
Gotta say i had a blast driving back my NC MX5 from Italy to France on small roads, with the trunk loaded of heavy things, worn out summer tire and going on some snowy mountain roads... And it reflect perfectly what you said in the video about all those possible cause for the rear to spin out
Thanks for sharing your experience! I hope you arrived safely anyway
@@SorinQuill made it Home safely and with a lot more of experiences and memories... And the car is still in 1 piece🤣
Thank you for aiding in making roads safer and more enjoyable
Was that Ayrton senna heel toe'ing in moccasin loafers? 😂😂
Yep it's a classic clip
As a car turns the majority of grip caused by static friction transfers into kinetic friction and this lowers the grip and the threshold of grip/slide. This leads to a very practical advice : when you feel your speed is too high when entering a curve you have to turn immidiately even more towards the corner ( to the point of loosing the grip), then unturn your stearing to staighten the line you drive and simultanously press your brakes fast but not too hard ( left foot braking useful ), then without braking continue on the curve as you need. This technik gives you more room for the manouver, creates better conditions for quick and effective braking and allows you to acknowledge where the critical point of grip/slide actualy is. The only important thing is to coordinate these actions properly in time. It saved me several times but I must say clearly - it needs training and adjusting to the car and performed in full speed may lead to a disaster at the first time.
One of the very few videos I watched more than once. And it's probably not the last time. Thanks!
Thanks for the lesson, these are the reasons why I love my fwd car... I have less to worry about
Good tips. Some of these apply to fwd cars as well
Flawless, All very well and conceptually correct. 👍 Video saved.
VERY underrated account, incredibly detailed explaination.
With Front wheel drive I tend to back off my throttle on entry to corners and seem to have better overall control of the car, it seems to stay more stable (ie. flat) and the back end just flows around beautifully.
Errr. lifting off will cause instability you are totally wrong!
Roll throttle, roll steering wheel, roll brakes. Always roll on and off when possible. Be light and gentle with your inputs. In a straight line you can sap off the clutch and gas all you want, but always roll on gas and steering no matter what.
I believe the downshift in corners one is actually used to initiate oversteer for drifting and rally sometimes, its called shift lock. If i remember correctly, Keiichi Tsuchiya used this technique
As an advanced trained driver, I wouldn't recommend heel and toe on the road. Rev matching is a good start, but mastering double de-clutching is the best method to practice and will protect your clutch and gearbox at the same time.
As a regular driver, I recommend learning heel and toe in a slow car, possibly fwd or awd.
I would recommend double clutching for modern vehicles
I don't understand the point of double clutching. I rev-match, but that's about it...never double clutched.
p.s, my car is an 80s car 🤷
@@Aleiza_49 Double clutching is essentially rev matching but saves wear on your clutch and gearbox. You can do it all day long on your road car without messing up the syncros in the box. It's actually smother than a simple rev match as well, as you're correctly aligning the whole transmission to the engine.
Just stop. Double clutching is a relict of the past.@@Niko-xz5lk
6:56 If You have 2500 RPM on 3rd gear when change to 2nd geat RPM will be about 3000 RPM in standard car
That depends if you have a 4 speed transmission 5 speed or 6 speed
Another factor that can increase oversteer likelyhood is bad alignment.
More please this is great. I tried my heel and toe as i once did in my Audi of many years back. I nearly broke my nose on the windscreen. Modern cars are now equipped with maximum brake force and counteract that with abs. No fun anymore.
I have a 71 f100 with a mild built 390fe, t19 manual and a full spool in the rear. Power sliding is how I get it around turns, to keep from from snaping another axle and gives max control for the turn. This means ploting out a turn before hand and set desired speed before hand, so if I need to slow down I will no lift down shift and then back back off the throttle some to engine brake before hand. This ensure I do not loose control of steering and is predictable where Im piching the rear if needed, and keeping a higher rpm means can back off the throttle more to slow down more if needed. It is also important to keep as much distance from objects as possible, so if there ends up being more steer than desired I dont have to rush a correction. Say the rear wanted to pich more because it hit a wet spot, I will back off the trottol first, wait a second or two before corecting the steering, and then get back in the throttol if needed. I know how to and have had to dirve it before, in snow and ice conditions with no traction drifting the hole way to the destination. In those condition, slow and stead is the best path to take so that control is maintained. So basically I do not use the brakes much unless wanting to come to a full stop, and will down shift through each gear with no trottol till Im back in 1st or 2nd before braking. Also is good to know the engagement point of the clutch, since is as far as the clutch needs bliped to get it in a gear and can leave a gear with out touching the clutch. As for steering, if rear is pitching one way the steering gose the other way. So if I want to get the rear to pitch in a desired direction, I steer out slightly from the turn, then I will blip the trottole to get the rear loose as Im lightly steering into the turn, then wiped the wheel the other direction and then slowly recenter till I have control of the slide.
Useful information, increasingly important as car technology increases.
My Volvo V60 Hybrid can be FWD, RWD or AWD changing modes seamlessly depending on the propulsion system selected as the petrol engine drives the front axle and the electric motor drives the rear or both ends can be driven simultaneously. Fortunately the chassis engineers did a fine job in maintaining a very neutral balance for all modes with a pretty good turn in, essential given the combined 400bhp the vehicle can offer.
I grew up in rainy Washington state, used my car to get me to school, work, snowboarding, mountain biking, and hunting. My 1st car was an 6 speed, LS powered Catfish, I mean Camaro, then I went through 2 regular cab short box, manual transmission, 350 Vortec 5700 then 5.3 LS, pickup trucks. Then I had a BMW E36 3 series in Germany, a 3.6 stick shift 2 door JK rubicon. Another 5.3 RCSB 5speed pickup, 5 spd 4.0 Ranger FX4 level II, my 1st automatic a VQ powered 2001 Nissan Pathfinder, Canyon Duramax, and currently a 6 speed manual Xterra proX4. The only time i've ever slid off a road was during a snowstorm in a front wheel drive car. You can really feel the difference in rear wheel grip and how the vehicle rolls during the start of the turn. I thought not being able to turn the car using the gas pedal was a giant handycap until I figured out you can drift FWD cars by using left foot braking.
At last, someone who explains clearly the facts. Many thanks to you 👌
Basically in an RWD car, always let the steering wheel to telegram its wilingness to unwind on its own when accelerating or lifting.
It will 'talk' to you after some time and will tell you if it was too much steering or throttle.
But one can always expect that when in a turn, loss of traction (for one reason or another) will most likely induce oversteering.
One exception is when you have an LSD that was set up to lock under coast. That might give you understeer when lifting in a corner.
Friend and I have been racing on my rig, a in my breaktime I've seed this video and it helped me to drive at least slightly better, on a first try 🙂 thank you 🙂
I want my MX5 in that awesome purple. Holy moly. Nice. 🙂
Great video! I would add the compromised vehicle stability during costing. Ideally you always want to have either your front or rear suspension/tires under load (accelerating or braking). You have to avoid coasting, especially on curved roads.
Excellent video! Thanks! Keep it going brother 🤜🤛
Great ... Now I got no excuse for crashing ... Thanks a lot Sorin Quill ! BTW... great video. Enjoyed your accurate insight and it helped . Thanks again !
lift over steer can happen in front wheel drive to
I was taught to get the car settled in a straight line and then leave the brakes alone and balance it on the throttle to carry as much speed as possible . I was always spinning my tuned Mini Cooper. Always my fault, but the one time my Spitfire swapped ends I was a passenger.
coz mini coopers are fwds that's why you balance it with the throttle
Good tips, and good video. Thanks for posting.
Remember: Smooth is fast
So one question.. is FWD cars are more safe than RWD?? Or does some of these factors also apply to FWD cars? I understand engine braking part difference but we see car out of control crashes mostly in RWD cars only.
FWD cars have more over steering than RWD cars. You can slide a FWD car however you can't drift them meaning once you've made a mistake that has your rear end sliding out on you, you will not have the same level of recovery potential that a RWD car has. This doesn't mean they are bad though. While racing in a time trial this past Friday at Mid-Ohio Raceway Sports Car Course I witnessed a beautifully built Honda Civic set a new record in its class for a 1:30-ish lap time.
so I'm just wondering about the first critical part of the 4 lets say im at the high rpm and I let off the gas completely... it'll oversteer due to the high engine breaking caused by the high rpm right? couldn't I shift a gear up to counter act this and lower the rpm so that there isn't as much engine breaking therefore im able to let off the gas without the consequences of oversteer but just having less power? what are the cons of this?
We should also be aware that counter steering is a two step process in that you must correct after the counter steer to bring the car back under control.
Very helpful bruh 👌🏾 👌🏾
On shifting in curves: of course, don't. Do it before, on the approach, while still in the straight line, and contain the entire procedure, incl. the final releasing of the clutch pedal, before steering in. If too late to do it the right way, give it up - it is less wrong to handle the corner one gear too high and be momentarily underpowered at the exit, than to risk getting unstable due to meddling with the forces midway and applying some abrupt ones (esp. by releasing the clutch following the downshift).
Now you all know more or less the way to start drifting without using handbreake......LOL!!!!!
Great job though m8 and really extended version of explaining.....
Very good. We are so muscle memory trained to let off gas in most situations when road driving that you must really practice this carefully. We can’t really practice oversteer anywhere on the road. I wish we could, because lift off oversteer did cost me a car because muscle memory in FWD cars kicked in and I let off. I wish you could legally practice this in parking lots, but we are really limited to the few and far between tracks with skid pad training.
Yes, the limited opportunities for practicing frustrate me too. Habits can be trained on the simulator - the behavior and control (including ergonomics) of your own car can only be trained in real life.
@@SorinQuill yup I use my car in games like Gran turismo and a wheel/manual shifter setup all the time. I so badly want to take my actual car to an empty area and just go wild finding the limits and learn. Can't though because everywhere around me would have police there in a few minutes.
@@bjornironsides6474if you can drive to mexico, you can do it there
I like to rev match even in my 1.2l econobox Clio because it's fun to do 😆 I can do heel-toe as well if I try very hard but the pedals aren't very well placed for that so I tend to avoid it
Years ago driving an automatic front wheel drive, at the speed limit early morning frosty road. Driving down a small hill then crested the other side lost the back end may be all four tyres. Was in the zone feathering the steering wheel to keep control. Did this for about 400 meters coming up to sharp bend. Split second decision to touch the throttle gained control and managed to drive the bend. There was car coming the other way on this quiet country side road and if I hadn’t touched that throttle I think it would have been a head on collision.
What you said, is also true with AWD and, part of it, even in FWD. I'd love to see more videos with you explaining other situations. 👍🇵🇱
I'm curious, in the first scenario with lift off oversteer, would applying left foot braking gently be a better solution than letting off the throttle at high rpms?
Well done good descriptions
If we must slow down (5:07) or brake (13:09) in the corner, we may use brakes without lift off throttle, then slow lift the throttle while speed decreasing.
All these things may be more necessary to use if the car has more neutral characteristics (i.e. when driving at a constant speed in a curve, both axles - front and rear - lose traction at similar speeds). In cars that understeer is strongly (manufacturers prefer to release such popular cars because they are easier to control), these techniques may not be so necessary. However, if someone sets their car to have oversteering characteristics (rather very few sports drivers try to do this), then they are already familiar with these problems and techniques and know how to use both.
Another important thing is the abruptness of the change in characteristics, how the car reacts when changing the balance. Despite the understeering characteristics, in the situations discussed in the film, oversteering may occur. This is influenced by many car parameters, including bumpsteer - changing the suspension settings (wheel alignment and camber) when it deflects.
What about cars with 4 wheel steering and semi auto boxes such as my RWD Lexus RC350 F sport coupe? . I don’t drive like a maniac and I have Pilot Sport 4S tyres on it but it doesn’t seem to be losing any grip on corners in any noticeable way.
The only way I can get it to break traction under normal conditions is in the wet if I plant the accelerator from the traffic lights.
It has a mild tune with an Invidia Quad exhaust but nothing outrageous other than a nice exhaust note many think is too loud.
I don’t switch off traction control for the record.
Could you make a video about trail braking? Thanks!
Slow in, fast out may be an old racing concept, however, it does work to help keep control when cornering. So does simply not accelerating during a turn and letting your cars momentum carry you through it assuming your not entering the corner at too high of a speed. At least these are some things I've learned from racing myself.
This is the most complicated explanation for rwd cornering and I’m here for it 😅
Also I only play games with cars I’ve never driven a real car 😅
Make 2 more videos like this w FWD and AWD. Very nice video btw!
I use a isuzu trooper 87 carb it's little tune on the carb and it use a/t tires I use downshift on sharp curves that must of regular cars will loose grip at 25 mph and I do it between 45 to 35 mph without risking upcoming traffic and I do it without 4x4 the trick is use the clutch entering the curve to change the weight distribution at the same time you steer earlier than the corner so the front goes first then at half curve you downshift but when you start lifting the clutch ruff you go full throttle all this at the same time your steering the direction you want to go because at high speed you lose traction just use it in your advantage. In front wheel cars, your front loses grip, let go gas and brakes just steer only play with throttle as needed when steering its not working at 100%. All my life has been how fast I can take curves using different cars and have been challenged many times with faster cars, but they can't keep up.
For the braking and turn-in, the optimal is always to induce a neutral steer to the limit, but as mentioned in the video, it is highly skilled and car-dependable.
Thanks for the video man!
Same thing for a motorcycle for number 2 in the safety course they tell you never to down shift while cornering as the power will cause the rear tire to slip and go into a lowside that can kill the biker.
I get wheel spin in my Jag when i pull away on a wet roundabout. It just doesn't hook up which quite amusing for a while
That's a really good explanation of trailing throttle oversteer, how to not be surprised by it, and how to deal with it.
Excellent 👌 Thank you 👍
Extra weight at first can definitely throw you off, but after you get used to it, you can take corners faster and harder than without the extra weight. Gotta do your math though. For best results, just add enough weight to give your vehicle a 50/50 split. Or as close to 50/50 as possible. Make sure to account for your butt in the front seat.
3 decades as a heavy haulage driver, some very sound advice here, which they really ahould teach people as the learn to drive.
People should be taught to drive all three, RWD, FWD and 4WD.
The roads wouls be a much safer place to be.
I recently did a quattro manual swap on my Audi FWD CVT... it is a very different car now and I need to relearn how to handle its very different behavior.
Thanks for this video, I apprecieted ! Can you lern why it's so much hard to "drift", or to keep skid controled on Honda S2000 ? Thanks A LOT
The Drift kings "Drift bible" took my drifting to another level ,there is a blur between oversteer and understeer if you understand the physics
i would say those mostly mistake really depend on the car design and set up and how you going to use those weight transfer, lift gas very denpend the suspension height setup, like setup the rear wheel low height to stable the brake, less weight transfer to the front. LSD and tyres grade would help how long to full trottle or half trottle the gas. FR FF MR, totally different.
but most people seem to be not going to learn and feel the momentum direction of your car, after you have understand the moentum direction of your car, then you will know how to use those sliding and run your car faster
We drive same car, fk8. Can you do this pls with fwd? Becouse my type r sometimes comes with the rear... but i want it controlled and not randome. So i didn't figure out why sometimes the back is cornering sometimes not. (No engine brake becouse rev match/plip)
Sometimes the esp is make it more dangerous, so i turned it off.... onetime i turn 180 in the corner becouse the esp... it dont help me it turn hole car in the corner and brakes strange the wheels wrong alone.
Im from Germany and i live @ nurnburgring.
Very useful and simplified! 👌🏽💯
Subscribed!!!
for in my mx5 nb i can only get the rear out when braking hard because i just dont have the power to spinn them, so to drift i steer, brake hard for a split second and then pinn the gaß (even that only works on wet roads because my tires just have too much grip). if you want to drift i´d say get a 2. set of rimms with old and hard tires (less grip) and stick them on the rear so that you dont burn your expensive tires and its more easy to get it sideways.
0:33 that topaz blue e46 pfl saloon 😍😍😍😍❤ i have an '00' sienna red manual 330i pfl saloon 👌
when braking the weight and mass of the car remains the same but there is a torque around the front wheels that generates a force that lifts the rear so the normal to the surface is reduced thus friction force is lowered but the inertia of the rear remaining the same so it can generate the same force, there is higher chances of losing grip
What if you just push the clutch? I always do that if the rear steps out too much and it grips up.
Even in FWD you don't lift mid corner. Or you do, but you know what will happen (the car rotates).
We need more videos like this, good stuff !
What additional consideration should we have if it’s a rear engine vehicle like a Porsche GT2RS? Your video is awesome!!
I find that shifting up and accelerating then shifting down again also helps if you have the high rpm slide.
Thankyou for sharing this video, the only rear wheel drive i have is a motorcycle 🏍️ .. my car is fwd 😅
Well done and good to see AC put to educational use. This is a good explanation of the performance circle that is taught in just about all racing schools.
0:23 Jack Doherty ahh moment
Is a bike doing an endo with hard front braking a good analogy?