Finally a straight, clear, answer to: Caster on the rear? The fact that is "irrelevant unless" let's shorten... It might be why many content creators have completely forgot to explore this aspect. Even some that are exploring designing their own geometry like I am. Well done!!
@@besty453 Literally, yes. Front Sway-Bar: It gives stability, but causes understeer. The thicker/harder the material/resistance, the more understeer you will experience- vise versa. A Sway-Bar in the front can actually be useful for people running lower tire pressures, as it can produce a balanced, smooth feel when drifting. Personally, I ride with a Front Sway-Bar. Chelsea Denofa, 2023 FD Champion, uses both Front & Rear Sway-Bars in his cars. Rear Sway-Bar: It gives stability, but it's absence can produce more forward-bite, instability, and understeer. Putting a Rear Sway-Bar on your car will make it easier to slide, but doesn't reduce/change your drift speed. The biggest difference you feel having vs not have a Rear Sway-Bar, is drifting banked corners. Without the Sway-Bar, the task of drifting the bank seems like a pipe dream. When you do have the Sway-Bar, there isn't any struggle of understeer or incompliance of going past the slip-angle. If you're in a low HP car, It's best to remove the front bar, and keep or add the rear bar, for a experience somewhat free of struggle.
@@KingDeadMan it's not true about ARB on the rear: it crates more oversteer; it will make your car slide easier, yes, but also it connects both of the tyres together, making it so the rear gets less grip, because the tyres aren't independent anymore, and that does affect your speed in drift. For low hp car i would suggest running stiffer rear ARB, so you can get easier slides with higher angles and remove front ARB totally to reduce understeer more. On the other hand, for high hp drift car setups i would put stiff front ARB and get as soft as possible or remove competely the rear ARB for hella lot of grip, providing that much power delivery through the drift. The reason for pro drifters to still use soft-medium rear ARB is to get more control of the car(oversteer), at the end it all comes to the one between seat and steering wheel.
Great video! You should do course teaching more advanced suspension geometry, kinematics, shocks and how different setups work. I would buy that and I think others would too
These are such good videos. I grew up in a car family and have been lightly modifying my cars and never really understood or have these explained. I built one heavily modified car and just about died in it because it would go really fast in a straight line but on the expressway it was dangerous. Thanks for all the tips. ✌️
Didn’t say it was too much, just said the effects of caster are more dramatic on a McPherson strut so generally run a different value vs double wishbone
Hey I know there’s lots of other great ideas to discuss next, but would you consider talking about steering rack placement re: over centering and steering bind in relation to the tie rod pickup point on the knuckle? I’ve been fighting this for a year with my angle kit and need to learn how to correct steering bind going toward full lock bidirectionally.
I got a question, as you mentioned in rain day high caster setting can increase tractions because the weight jacking if the tire without grip, but the traction not all about grip?
Now I know why my drift rc wheels center back a bit when it’s off and I am turning them manually. It also have the lifting effect. I guess its kind of a good thing since there is zero traction with the track/tire combo we use.
He talks about it at the end when he mentions rotating the knuckles. “Kingpin” as a term in alignments isn’t really relevant anymore as cars no longer have a kingpin.
I'd like to know, if someone knows, what is the difference if there's one, in setting the front caster by offsetting the two a-arms while keeping them parallel to the ground (no antidive there), Versus instead setting the caster by tilting backwards the two arms and their pickup points. Hope to have described comprehensibly the 2 scenarios. Whoever will answer thanks in advance.
Could you explain how can the caster and kingpin effect on the grip for the front and the rear. And could you talk about 4 way adjustable damper for the front and the rear and their relation with the spring stiffness I know it might take a time but literally no one talked about them
1. KPA is related to caster but also locates the scrub radius, etc. Really need to read a book to explain this properly. Usually KPA is fixed and caster is adjustable is short answer, and the long answer is pages and pages of physics and geomerty. Suspension is such a complex topic people devite their lives to just one aspect of it (geometery, shock valving, bushing design) for one purpose (racing, agressive street driving, drifting, high and low speed offroad, luxury ride, and towing to name a few). 2. Dampers should be matched to the springs. High rate/lowering springs need more damping and will blow oem shocks. Pick your spring rates, and then get your shocks valved to the springs. A non-adjustable damper works as well as an adjustable one if valved correctly and last longer if daily driving. I'd suggest some yellow bils if keeping under $3k on shocks. The value brand adjustable crap goes straight in the bin. Avoid twin-tube designs, they are commuter shitboxes. Be aware the spring rates depend on the geometry of the suspension, and you NEED to do the measurements and math before messing with anything, or risk having to swap springs a bunch to tune it. Check out QA1 for usa-made springs for a decent price. Nobody talks about these because they are deep and wide subjects appreciated by a small (but amazing) group of nerds. Welcome to the club. Some reading is in your future!
@@nobodynoone2500 first thanks for your answer What’s the name of these books and are they talking about drift specifically? And where can I find the guide lines for measuring the spring rate
In drifting the lead wheel is where all of our steering is coming from which is the inside tire (opposite to racing) so for drifting it’s positive gain on the critical tire, for racing it’s negative for the critical tire
Finally a straight, clear, answer to: Caster on the rear?
The fact that is "irrelevant unless" let's shorten... It might be why many content creators have completely forgot to explore this aspect. Even some that are exploring designing their own geometry like I am. Well done!!
maybe its time to talk about Antirollbars in drift ?
Put them in the bin. Fix your roll centre and spring rate
@@janeblogs324so why do all pro cars have sway bars then? They’re a useful tool for dialing grip
@@DallasStewartMusic do they tho?
@@besty453 Literally, yes.
Front Sway-Bar: It gives stability, but causes understeer. The thicker/harder the material/resistance, the more understeer you will experience- vise versa. A Sway-Bar in the front can actually be useful for people running lower tire pressures, as it can produce a balanced, smooth feel when drifting.
Personally, I ride with a Front Sway-Bar. Chelsea Denofa, 2023 FD Champion, uses both Front & Rear Sway-Bars in his cars.
Rear Sway-Bar: It gives stability, but it's absence can produce more forward-bite, instability, and understeer. Putting a Rear Sway-Bar on your car will make it easier to slide, but doesn't reduce/change your drift speed. The biggest difference you feel having vs not have a Rear Sway-Bar, is drifting banked corners. Without the Sway-Bar, the task of drifting the bank seems like a pipe dream. When you do have the Sway-Bar, there isn't any struggle of understeer or incompliance of going past the slip-angle.
If you're in a low HP car, It's best to remove the front bar, and keep or add the rear bar, for a experience somewhat free of struggle.
@@KingDeadMan it's not true about ARB on the rear: it crates more oversteer; it will make your car slide easier, yes, but also it connects both of the tyres together, making it so the rear gets less grip, because the tyres aren't independent anymore, and that does affect your speed in drift.
For low hp car i would suggest running stiffer rear ARB, so you can get easier slides with higher angles and remove front ARB totally to reduce understeer more.
On the other hand, for high hp drift car setups i would put stiff front ARB and get as soft as possible or remove competely the rear ARB for hella lot of grip, providing that much power delivery through the drift. The reason for pro drifters to still use soft-medium rear ARB is to get more control of the car(oversteer), at the end it all comes to the one between seat and steering wheel.
Great video! You should do course teaching more advanced suspension geometry, kinematics, shocks and how different setups work. I would buy that and I think others would too
These are such good videos. I grew up in a car family and have been lightly modifying my cars and never really understood or have these explained. I built one heavily modified car and just about died in it because it would go really fast in a straight line but on the expressway it was dangerous.
Thanks for all the tips. ✌️
Best caster trail explanation I ever seen 👏
Anti squat next!! I repeat anti squat next! Thank you 😊
Short, Simple, effective and easy to understand - good job :)
Thank you!
Can You explain in comments why 8deg is too much on mcphearson strut? I ran 8 deg on my 240sx street car and I loved it.
Didn’t say it was too much, just said the effects of caster are more dramatic on a McPherson strut so generally run a different value vs double wishbone
@@FDFraceshop why/how is it different on a McPherson strut?
Some demonstrations of turning the steering wheel on cars with different castor values would be helpful, if animations aren't feasible
Hey I know there’s lots of other great ideas to discuss next, but would you consider talking about steering rack placement re: over centering and steering bind in relation to the tie rod pickup point on the knuckle?
I’ve been fighting this for a year with my angle kit and need to learn how to correct steering bind going toward full lock bidirectionally.
Man I look forward to getting the tip all week long
I got a question, as you mentioned in rain day high caster setting can increase tractions because the weight jacking if the tire without grip, but the traction not all about grip?
Now I know why my drift rc wheels center back a bit when it’s off and I am turning them manually. It also have the lifting effect. I guess its kind of a good thing since there is zero traction with the track/tire combo we use.
Can you address kingpin angle with caster and how less or more kpi is better or worse in drifting. Thanks 🤙🏼💯
He talks about it at the end when he mentions rotating the knuckles. “Kingpin” as a term in alignments isn’t really relevant anymore as cars no longer have a kingpin.
I'd like to know, if someone knows, what is the difference if there's one, in setting the front caster by offsetting the two a-arms while keeping them parallel to the ground (no antidive there), Versus instead setting the caster by tilting backwards the two arms and their pickup points. Hope to have described comprehensibly the 2 scenarios.
Whoever will answer thanks in advance.
Could you explain how can the caster and kingpin effect on the grip for the front and the rear.
And could you talk about 4 way adjustable damper for the front and the rear and their relation with the spring stiffness
I know it might take a time but literally no one talked about them
1. KPA is related to caster but also locates the scrub radius, etc. Really need to read a book to explain this properly. Usually KPA is fixed and caster is adjustable is short answer, and the long answer is pages and pages of physics and geomerty. Suspension is such a complex topic people devite their lives to just one aspect of it (geometery, shock valving, bushing design) for one purpose (racing, agressive street driving, drifting, high and low speed offroad, luxury ride, and towing to name a few).
2. Dampers should be matched to the springs. High rate/lowering springs need more damping and will blow oem shocks. Pick your spring rates, and then get your shocks valved to the springs. A non-adjustable damper works as well as an adjustable one if valved correctly and last longer if daily driving. I'd suggest some yellow bils if keeping under $3k on shocks. The value brand adjustable crap goes straight in the bin. Avoid twin-tube designs, they are commuter shitboxes. Be aware the spring rates depend on the geometry of the suspension, and you NEED to do the measurements and math before messing with anything, or risk having to swap springs a bunch to tune it. Check out QA1 for usa-made springs for a decent price.
Nobody talks about these because they are deep and wide subjects appreciated by a small (but amazing) group of nerds. Welcome to the club. Some reading is in your future!
@@nobodynoone2500 first thanks for your answer
What’s the name of these books and are they talking about drift specifically? And where can I find the guide lines for measuring the spring rate
I prefer a 2-hour tutorial for alignment on a drift car. I can be longer, too
Just for clarification, rear caster only applies to independent rears, not solid axle…..as much if any.
Caster creates negative camber with steering angle, not positive camber as stated.
In drifting the lead wheel is where all of our steering is coming from which is the inside tire (opposite to racing) so for drifting it’s positive gain on the critical tire, for racing it’s negative for the critical tire
@@FDFraceshopoh, so when describing the static setup do you call, what's normally referred to as negative camber, positive camber?
would love to see pics/illustrations during these. itll be easier to understand. i just need pictures
I would love to hear more about rear knuckle rotation