22-250 is arguably the best coyote gun and really good for the Prarrie dogs. In my book as a coyote hunter it's max range is about 400 yards because after that you need to do a bunch of wind and elevation calculations. Inside of that it's almost a layup for the good ole 250.
@@rkba4923 well there used to be a few companies that made AR10’s in 22-250 but since the bolt face is like .470 same as a .308 and 6.5 CM it had to be on a AR10 Many dont understand the appeal of the valkyrie and many of those that have one understand whats special about it for some and for some people it just will not so what they want. A Valkyrie pushes a heavy bullet with a good BC faster than a 223 can and lower pressures and fits in an AR15 mag. And it isnt a barrel burner A 22 creed etc will push a 88gr berger way way faster and burn out is barrel way way faster and will not fit into an AR15 mag. For a bolt gun their are better options
In the 60s I used to hunt marmots with a 220 swift. I’d hand load 50 grain bullets and a 24” barrel. It would push the bullets out at 4100 FPS. The issue was throat erosion. Barrels had very short lives and they had a terrible problem with yawing under 50 or so yards as well. I moved to the 22-250 in the 70s and it was more accurate and barrels lasted longer. I think the 224 Valkyrie is going the right way with heavier bullets. However it’s pushing into the 6mm range with more bullets and very good BC
They were fast but figure 3k rounds for the barrels. Luckily I was working for a gunsmith part time. My 22-250 used to push the 50 grain bullet at 3700. It was much more accurate ( different twist)
No problems with my swift ,I shoot 55 grn Bergers on varmints and 60 grn nosler partions on deer when I come to rebarrel I will go with a 1-8 twist and make it a 220 swift AI ,it's a ruger no 1 with a 26 ins barrel I'm old school , but the 224 Valkyrie is a interesting round, but the next calibre I add to my gun safe will be a 6.5 Grendel in a cz 527
thesheepman220 sounds like a nice setup. I used to shoot the 6.5 Remington mag that was a nice round out of a short action. I suspect that Grendel has similar ballistics. The ballistic coefficient of the 6, 6.5 and 7mm seem to all be excellent.
No AR-15 in 22-250. 1,000 yards with a 22-250? The 224 Valkyrie is irrelevant if you don't want to use an AR-15 and you don't plan to shoot long distances. Of course, every single cartridge on the market -- EVERY SINGLE ONE -- can be made to look 'irrelevant' if you take it out of its intended use. For hard-target sniping in the military, 22 LR is irrelevant. For low-cost plinking without being too disruptive to the neighbors, 50-BMG is irrelevant. Bottom-line: it's as irrelevant as you want it to be.
Olympic Arms makes a 22-250 AR15 model. Accepts all other mil spec AR15 components. Just need the 22-250 Mag and 22-250 UMAR lower with the machined Mag well.
Exactly. I've built a 7 twist 22-250 with a 26 inch shilen tube on a savage model 12 action. I absolutely love this cartridge with the 90 grain bergers and the 90/95 grain sierras. Turns a 22-250 into a legit 1000 meter rifle
Great discussion! As you mentioned, the biggest advantage of the 224 Valkyrie is that it fits in the AR 15 platforms. On the 22-250, I don't know anybody that shoots one and does not handload, and you can get the same 90gr bullet going at 2900FpS (33gr Hogdon H4350). Having said that, I am looking at building and upper for the Valkyrie and retiring my 243 varmint gun in its favor.
I had a custom barrel from Rocky Mountain Rifle works with a 1/8 twist to shoot SMK80 grainers at 3000fps in 22-250. I have shot it out to 2000 yards. With a scope with 140 MOA. Fun cartridge.
I believe the fastest twist rate from a factory barrel chambered in 22-250 is a 1-9 twist from savage in the model 12vlp and 12lrpv. Fast enough for the 75 grain bullets.
Ruger made a limited run of American rifles in 22-250 with a 1:8 twist. Similar to the 243, I'd expect to see some 22-250's come in the faster twists now because of the 224 valkyrie. Like he said the advantage of the Valkyrie is that it can fit in an AR. The heavy 22 idea has been around but I had read they were having jacket separation problems when driving the 90's really hard.
Thank you for the superb videos you post on TH-cam. I look forward to them with great anticipation. Regarding this video, I shoot a Savage Model 12 in 22-250with a 1 - 9 twist and have no problems stabilizing 70 grain Berger VLD bullets with velocities reaching over 3300 FPS. After watching your video, I ran a simulation on my Ballistic AE app and found that the 22-250 will out perform the .224 out to 1125 yards when it goes transonic. The data is consistent with my real world experience albeit only through 600 yards. While the 22-250 is a dated cartridge, it still is very shootable over 1000 yards with the right barrel twist and bullet selection.
That's great to hear. I hope folks continue to tweak the .22-250. It's such an excellent cartridge. It's the first rifle cartridge I handloaded for; I made lots of mistakes, but it still shot tight, tiny groups.
Back in the 70's there was a master gunsmith in Central CA named Gerald Clarke... I had a Sako chambered in his "wildcat" .224 Clarke. It was, like 22-250; based on a larger case, .257 Roberts if I remember right. FLAT SHOOTER! 1000 yards all day shooting ground squirrels for bounty. Barrel lasted about 2500 rounds. My earlier 22-250 didn't last that long. It seems the .224 Valkyrie may solve those issues (at least in the AR platform), I will be interested to see what barrel life will be in future testing. Thanks for sharing!
22-250 rem can easily handle 60gr bullets and some Boutique brands offer up to 70 grain bullet for 22-250 Remington really good long-range performance.
How long it stays supper sonic is totally dependent on the atmospherics for that day. Same for the 224 Valkyrie. With today's conditions just over 1350 yards.
This is the way to go with a bolt action....... Your rig will outperform the Valkyrie 10 times........ By the way Bullet stability is dependent mostly on twist rate to bullet bearing surface ( the long bearing surface tend to make the bullet heavy !!!! lol )
@@SocialRegressive if it had a 7.5 twist with 80.5 Berger bullets it would be doing just over 1300 feet a second at 1200 feetmines does and with a 30 in barrel using 34 grains cafe great rifle shooting crows at 817 yards
he said guess so I think he's about to try a 22-250 with a real slow twist and a longer throat. But folks he has a point about his comment to consider what you want and real-life use. For me, I bought a 22-250 for punching paper and chuck hunting figuring 500 yds would be the long end and 250-350 the practical range. at that point, the 22-250 will hold it's own quite well.
Many years ago I skipped the 22-250 and purchased a Remington 700 in .243, the smallest center fire caliber most state require to take dear. The 224 Valkyrie is an outstanding varmint load, including coyotes and is very accurate out to 1000 yards. I know it is touted as a 1300 yard round, however, I have never seen it shot that far.
My rifle: A Remington 700 with a 26 inch 1-9 twist Bartlein Barrel chambered in a 22-250 Ackley Improved (with a 40 degree shoulder). Loaded with a Sierra 69 gr. Match King or Hornady 73 grain ELD bullet, it beats the 22-250 Remington loaded with a 45 to 55 grain bullet and the 224 Valkyrie loaded with a 80 to 90 grain bullet.
The shorter case design of 224 Valkyrie allows you to load the 90gr Berger BC of .551 or the SMK 90gr BC of .535. Can’t come close to those BC’s in 22-250 and keep COL within SAAMI spec
65 Grendel FTW, deer hunt with it, better long range stability... I can consistently hit the 500 yard steel at my range. But you'll never find ammo or magazines locally. Buy everything online :/
idlehands333 no sir, 6.5Grendel will do everything the 6.8 can do, better than the 6.8, and more. Better short range ballistics, better long range ballistics, larger range of bullet weights. There's a reason the military never adopted the 6.8 round, yet the 6.5 Grendel is in trials presently for both US service and HAS been adopted by a standing government military.
jimhans1 incorrect. The 6.8 wins within 350-400 yards then the Grendel surpasses it. However, they are both so close in both close and long range performance that the difference is negligible. The reason the Army stuck with the 5.56 is because of the logistics required to change caliber. Too much time, money, effort required to change to a caliber that may or may not be more effective in actual combat. That and nothing beats the 5.56 in weight and carrying capacity while still remaining effective.
I like the way you later that out. I'm a fan of the 22-250 for coyote but love my AR, can't wait to see what 224 will make it it self, also couldn't help making the 224 th comment.
It's very fun and challenging to push the limits of a small caliber. Shooting long distance with them to see just what there capable of can be very surprising. I have a video shooting my .17WSM at 500 yards. I've gone out as far as 615 yards with it but haven't made a video yet. At 615 it was going through a 1/2 thick piece of plywood. Very surprising.
I got my wife a savage 12 over black Friday of course I had to get the 6.5 creedmoor. $219 is what I paid and couldn't pass it down. I've been watching your axis build (mostly the pillar and glass bedding videos) and I'm excited to start. Stock comes in on tuesday!
The Social Regressive, ended up getting the pro varmint with the coyote finish and cheeck riser. I wanted boyds because I need to cut it down to 12.75 LOP, any idea how workable the boyds butt pad Is?
You should be able to easily trim the length of the stock. When you reattach the buttpad, it probably won't fit perfectly, but you can use these techniques to re-snug it: th-cam.com/video/xQUTFow61Eg/w-d-xo.html
Very interested to see how the 224 Valkyrie performs in real world testing. I'm still thinking about getting a 6.5 Grendel spr together but man if this cartridge does like they say it does, that might change.
That is does. A budget ar running nothing but steel cased 6.5 would be a pretty awesome plinker, no doubt. Only concern would be eating up a nicer barrel if it has a bi metal jacket. And honestly, I could probably get hand loads down pretty cheap either way.
Colson Customs sadly, there are not any truly cheap bullets for 6.5mm. I've got 4 Grendel's built, and will build a Valk, but it won't replace any of my Grendel's, the bullet weight range I can run (85gr-156gr) in the Grendel and the availability of the steel cased ammo win the day for me.
That is very true. I see the 224v as being a nice upgrade for people wanting to push the limits of 5.56 as far as heavier bullets with higher bc. 6.5 Grendel is something I would feel more comfortable taking a deer with which is far more likely than getting to shoot past 1,000 yards on paper.
In terms of the AR-15 form factor constraints (magazine length, bolt face) the 224 Valkyrie marries the super high BC SMK 90gr (.534) and even the Berger 90gr (.561) with the larger 6.8SPC case. There is no better performing long range option anywhere for the AR-15 form factor.
Peter Southern Boy I'll still stick with a 6.5 Grendel or if I just NEED a .224" bullet got with the .224LBC, I have a Valk barrel coming to test out, but it won't replace any of my Grendel guns/chamberings.
Olympic arms made a ar 15 in 22-250 and 243wssm. I have both uppers. a 25wssm is also available. One of the uppers is a piston gun with a adj gas block. It also has a proprietary magazine for each caliber to fit longer cartridges in a ar15 lower. The lower is cut out longer for the magazines.
Charles Wittmer while Olympic DOES make the UMAR15, it doesn't fully apply to this as it is only available with a 1:14 twist barrel. Which is great for Bullets up to 50-55gr, it will not stabilize anything past that. So no true long range use out of it. Also a pain for proprietary mags. That only hold 5 rounds
Best round I personally ever used was the old .25 REM fired from a model 30S Remington last made in 1929......the Enfield action handled very hotttt loads, very accurate at long range and packed a punch....... Why not neck/shoulder down a .30 REM to 223 (not a 30-06 case)
Best explain of 22-360 I've seen. Know the bullet is light but at over 4000ft/sec can't be too much wind drift for first 200 yds. Just not in the air that long. One neg I've found to 22-250 is some indoor gun ranges ban it. Not sure why they just say it's hypervelocity. These ranges do not ban other .223 caliper ammo except for the Swift
At 4000fps it smokes straight through AR500 steel used for the bullet traps. The other rounds can’t generate the needed velocity to damage their bullet traps.
PERFORMANCE UPDATE FOR THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY: And right on que as expected (because of Federals outlandish hype of the 224Valkyrie), and the fact that the Valkyrie is a slow childs caliber, another company has popped up to give shooters a real choice in performance offerings for the AR platform. You can now get custom match grade barrels for the 224grendel at TacticalCannon dot commmm (and no its not me just passing info along to the shooting community), they even carry the dies, pre made brass, match bolt/barrel sets. Pretty dang cool.
I've seen a couple of comments about .243 and 6mm x 47 here and I have a 6x45mm AR that will shoot a 75gr out to a 1000. So maybe a 6mm Valkyrie with a 105 some day? Thoughts?
Update... I finally found what it's called, plenty of wildcatters are working on the 6x6.8 SPC. Ballistics calculators comparing the 90gr 224 Valkyrie to a 107gr 6mm indicate about 25% more terminal power with about 5% more drop, so long range and bullet options for hunting.
Gary Carroll - you can’t run 107gr in a 6x6.8 at PRI mag length (2.3” coal) and it’s throated for bullets under 90gr... this comes from Ritch of Ritch’s Precision Guns. The more appropriate comparison is a 243 LBC which is. I had one with a 20” and could only get accuracy nodes around 2750 fps with a 95gr VLD. A 22 Grendel or 224 LBC would be the better option if high BC being pushed at AR15 pressures is what you want.
Yep agree I can shoot 55 grain for song dogs or go up into the 100’s for bigger game all shooting very fast. Wind drift is going to get you if it’s going to get you in a hunting situation. Not like you have several shots to walk it in to steel like you can on the range.
The best cartridge doesn't always win, I'm a die hard 6mm Remington fan, my first rifle I owned, better than the 243 Wich I do despise. I love my 22-250 but as soon as someone builds a 22" version of the valkarie I'll buy one
I've always heard that from 6mm shooters. As far as a longer Valkyrie barrel goes, you should check out the new CMMG with the 24" barrel. That sucker's gonna be massive.
I love my .224. it always makes me smile to hear the rhythm of repeated gong hits on semiauto. If I hunted past 200 yards, I would switch to something stronger, but out to 200, this will do just fine all day (20", 1:7 twist, with a leupold mark 4 8.5-25x)
Well put. I'm a fan of the 22-250 and had one built about 5 yrs ago that is stupid accurate. I totally agree with your long range comparison of bullets. I limit mine to 500 yds. So for long range, I'm going to have another build in the near future but this time it will be in .260 Remington.....just as accurate as the Creed but 200 fps velocity edge.
i have a browning x-bolt in 22-250 with factory 1:9 twist rate, heaviest factory load i can get my hands on at the moment is 64 grain winchester which is helpful for longer shots. looking forward to experimenting with some heavier hand loads though
Yeah .224 val is the next 6.5 creed for AR15. Plus a lot of people don’t want to spend the money on an AR10. Hopefully PSA or Anderson will pick it up the round and make some uppers for people who want a budget long range gun. Can’t wait to see what the future has for us!
I’ve had the 224 Valkyrie since it came out. It has disappointed time and time again. 90gr, doesn’t shoot for crap, loading with ELDM has been very finicky, and brass is horrible. With the 22-250ai or a 223ai they’re easy to load for and easy to find nodes for.
The Social Regressive - I’d love for the Valkyrie to do great but not until a premium brass manufacturer comes out with match quality brass. Believe it or not all 3 brass manufacturers, Federal, Hornady, and Starline require major case prep to get right but the Federal brass has the best case capacity and after weeding out the loose primer pocket pieces, they’re gtg and I’ve been getting the best accuracy with the Federal brass once it goes through prep.
Love the .22/250 - under 400 yards it's a laser, but I never use it for long distance with light bullets. I'm always tempted to rebarrel it in 1-7" or less and launch 90gns bullets out of an AI chamber. But that's a project for another year.
224 valk has been haveing trouble with 90 grain bullets even with 1:7 twist. My Savage msr15 did not like anything over 75 grains bullet. I am a reloader and a gunsmith so everything was inspected. I got good accuracy in the .486 in with 60 grain pills.
I have a bergara b14 hunter 22-250 with a 1in9 twist barrel and I load the 75gr bthp match hornady bullet and can get between 3250 and 3350fps. I don't have but 500 yards to shoot it but it drops about an inch less than the 55grn vmax at that range. And it stabilizes great.
I have a older Savage, bolt action, single shot with a 26 inch barrel with a 1 in 7 twist barrel in which I shoot a 90 grain BT hollow point bullet at 2950 FPS. Extremely flat shooting and extremely accurate
The biggest problem with 22-250 is the lack of faster twist rate barrels which dont allow you to stabilize heavier bullets. Heavier bullets weigh more but they also carry more energy making their drop pretty much the same. The more important part is the heavier bullets do better in windy conditions. Thats why the 224 does well at 1000 yards 90 gr bullet with a .224 diameter is great with wind. Its basically the AR15 versions of the larger cartridge used in the AR10. The 6.5CM. 22-250 on the other hand stops showing its greatness after 500 yards tops. Its made to use 55 gr bullets and with the same .224 caliber their BC is much worse then the 224 Valkyrie. The 22-250 is a close to mid range varmint cartridge and its great for that. The 224 Valkyrie is a ELR cartridge that doubles as a varmint cartridge. I appreciate the 22-250 and of course i have one but the 224 Valkyrie is more versatile.
John Ganshow I shot a 2 3/4" group "3 shot" at 760 yards with my 22-250 AI. I love it when people say 22's aren't long range guns. Oh yeah an have several first round hits on ground hogs at 800+.
Anyone make factory loads for the 22-250 in a 70 to 80 grain bullet? Or would that be strictly hand loading. Then I would have to find a bolt rifle in a 1-8 twist...
Agreed, BUT, I think Federals intent behind the Valkyrie was for competition shooters, low recoil but still getting you to 1,000 yards with less drop and drift. But like the 6.5 Creedmoor (for competition upon inception) that was adopted by hunters, etc. Federal took advantage and is offering it for plinkers (75gr TMJ/FMJ), varmint hunters (60gr Nosler) and medium sized game hunters (90gr Fusion). Lot of people want that one rifle to do everything...
Anyone able to explain the hype of shooting larger bullets out of a .22 calibre rifle? Why not go up to a .243 or 6.5? Is it mainly so those with ARs can stretch out their range?
Having a custom 22-250 barrel made to a longer throat witha 1 in 7 twist is child's play for barrel makers these days and one could easily have several made for a Ackley Improved version of the 22-250 Heavy Bullet Special and wax the Valkyrie until the cows come home..... Just because you have one in an AR and you have "fire power", what do you really have in the real world against a good Bolt Gun? Not much. Besides, I doubt that the .22 will get enough interest with the 6.5 CM taking off as it has to gain much but a small and specialized following in the Valk. The 22-250 on the other hand has a well established and loyal following from the 1930s!
Food for thought. The Hornady Manual lists hand loads up to 80 Grains for the 22-250 traveling upwards of 3200FPS with a with a ELD .457 BC bullet. I have seen AR-10 uppers listed for sale for the semi-auto AR platform crowd. Given those numbers I would think that the 22-250 should be able to keep pace with the 224 Valkrie to at least 1100 yards before it goes subsonic. Given that the hornady reloading manual tends to be a little conservative with its pressures, you might be able to push that 80grain bullet even faster.
260 in a ar 10 once you leave the ar15 platform. I have a 243 wssm in a ar15 and it shoots win ballistic tips great but it is finicky to load for. the 65 cm can use a longer bullet than the 260 in the ar10
In the Hornady reloading book, they prefer 75-grain ELD-Match with 1:8 twist rate, but I cannot find any off-the-shelf rifles with that twist rate, the closest is 1:9
I've been a strong proponent of 22-250 (but not 22-250AI) with heavy bullets for years now. I got into it because i could hand load for them much cheaper than my 308's I run a Savage model 111 & 12 with pacnor barrels (and chassis systems so i can squeeze every bit of accuracy out of them as possible) with 90gr smk all the way down to 69gr loads I think people have a lot of misconceptions about heavy 22-250's but a stout load with 90gr will shoot flatter than a 6.5cm with less recoil. As for barrel life, i have close to 3000 through my model 111 which was my first and so far all is well. My newest built on a Savage model 12 and MPA chassis has a pacnor stainless barrel that i had nitrided so I'm expecting the barrel to last even longer yet but only time will tell
I want to have a .224 with a wider case and maybe some more weight like 120 grains. I love it, but I want just a little more energy. I guess what I'm saying is that I want it to have energy of the more powerful 6.5 Grendel while keeping its excellent ballistic performance.
I know that centerfire ammo under .25 were not leagle for big game animals in the state where I live when I last hunted as they were considered to be for varmet hunting only
How come you aren't comparing it to the 6.5 Creedmoor. It seems these two cartridges will be in direct competition with each other for long-range competition shooting.
Sooooooo, if I get a new barrel (with the proper twist) for my 22/250 and I decide to shoot the same 90 grain bullets, then . . . But as others have noted, when shooting at 800 + yards, then there are better cartridges.
Oh if I were to choose anything outside of the AR-15 form factor constraints (magazine, bolt) then for PRS gas gun it would be 6mm Creedmoor and for LR hunting it would be 6.5 SAUM GAP 4S - but that’s not the OP’s thread. OP is about the AR-15 form factor constraints
224 Valkyrie is ok for target shooting, I don’t see that it has a place in the hunting world though. I also don’t see a plethora of bolt action rifles coming out in this chambering so a custom job may as well be a fast twist 22-250 vs a 224
Barrel a rifle in the Ackley improved .22-243, it will beat the pants off the .224 Valkyrie from either a bolt gun or an AR-10. Down side is that currently you still have to make your own brass for it, thankfully the parent case (.243 Winchester) is very plentiful.
It probably really comes down to not being able to get a standard .22-250 with proper twist rate for heavier bullets, where it likely would perform similarly or better than .224 Valkyrie. Personally, I'm really eyeing an AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel, but .22 Nosler seems like a serious contender as well. So many choices, it gets pretty overwhelming.
The Ruger American .22-250 has a 1:10 twist. I have one in a Boyd's stock using 62gr TSXs for PA deer & coyotes. 1:10 is borderline for a long 62gr copper bullet, 1:9 would be better. I don't get sub-1" groups, but 1"-ish @ 100yds. Which in PA is plenty since 99% of everything is shot inside 150yds anyway.
Valkyrie was not designed to be a 22-250 replacement or 22-250 equivalent. It was designed, first, to fit the AR-15 platform and provide for longer bullets for long range shooting. The case capacity on the Valkyrie is only 3.1 grains more than 5.56/223 (34.5 grains vs 31.4 grains). 22-250 holds 44.6 grains. The Valkyrie case is 1.6" in length, the 223 is 1.76". The Valkyrie is .16" shorter for use with long bullets (so the overall length stays within AR-15 specs) and holds a little more powder to make up for those longer bullets also being a bit heavier. If anything, the Val is more of a 5.56/223 replacement than anything.
I'm building a long range/ coyote rig. I was thinking 6.5 cm. but I just might go with a 22-250 with a 1-8 or 1-9 twist. A 90g plus the 75g VLD would be a blast. Plus I could load up 55 grainers for the yotes. Or maybe not. Uggh. Decisions decisions. I'll be ordering the barrel in the new year from JC customs in Canada. He makes great barrels. Plus his price point is decent and not a long wait.
I have been wondering if you had a 224 Valkyrie Barrel with a 1/0 or 1/12 twist barrel and loaded the 224 Valkyrie with a 40 or 45 gr bullet would you have a 22-250 in the 15 platform
What is the difference in the Valkyrie and the 6.5 Grendel? That would be a good comparison to do I think. What do you think. Is the 6.5 not a 224. cal? Thanks
So I have always thought about building a 224 with a 1 in 12-13 twist to run 35-40 grain bullets for Prairie dogs in a auto platform how do you think it would stack up against the 22-250 that way
Sound like a fun project! It won't stack up against .22-250's velocities due to the difference in case capacity, but I would expect stellar accuracy from the .224 Valkyrie case. Those sharp-shouldered, short cases are well known for producing consistent velocities.
You meant faster twists not slower twists 1 in 12 is faster than 1 in 14. And I am sure you can get them faster. A 1 in 12 works great with a 62 grain boat tail. I have not tried higher, but I don't shoot beyond 300 yd anyway.
Hey man, I forgot who built it and put it out but I'm sure a quick Google search will tell you who , but there is an AR-15 chambered in 22-250 that you can buy.
I have a 22-250 with a 7.5 twist rate and a 30 in barrel which is shooting 80.5 at 3398 feet a second and killing crows at 817 yards but have some new Hornsby 90 ATips which am going to try cause she shoots a one hole group with 90 grain Berger same as the 80.5
I am using cfe powder 34 grains and Remington action with a grs stock great rifle hoping to make some videos of it shooting now that I have a tacacam coming so looking forward to it
Just about any out of the box 22-250 with federal premium 60 grain Nosler Partition store box ammo are absolutely lethal on whitetail from 400 yards on in. The Mighty little 250 is a straight up Monster in hiding with the right load and in capable hands. The behind the shoulder exits are unbelievable for such a small caliber. I have yet to have a deer take as much as 1 step either. Seeing people using 338 rums on whitetail is just ridiculous and wasting a lot of good meat that many people need. Ballistics are nice, but just like in sports, paper champs are not field proven like the venerable old 250 is.
If you are going to use an ar15 platform the Valkyrie is the way to go but just for comparison I have a custom 22-250 rem with a 27" bartlein barrel with 1 in 7.75 twist rate. With a 75grn A-max muzzle velocity is 3400fps and with a 200 yrd zero my drop at 1000yrds is only 220 inches. The longest groundhog kill with this rifle is 1026yrds.
22-250 is arguably the best coyote gun and really good for the Prarrie dogs. In my book as a coyote hunter it's max range is about 400 yards because after that you need to do a bunch of wind and elevation calculations. Inside of that it's almost a layup for the good ole 250.
220 swift if you reload
I'd like to see a comparison of a 22-250 with 1x6.5 twist barrel, 90 grain SMK against the .224 Valkyrie.
Check and see if “Mark and Sam After Work” have done the barrel and ELD bullet.
Did you ever locate your comparison of a 22 250 A.R. 15 compared to a A.R. 15 Valkyrie.???
@@captainamer71 Nope, unfortunately not. I would accept Bolt Action comparison too. Do you happen to know of any?
@@rkba4923 well there used to be a few companies that made AR10’s in 22-250 but since the bolt face is like .470 same as a .308 and 6.5 CM it had to be on a AR10
Many dont understand the appeal of the valkyrie and many of those that have one understand whats special about it for some and for some people it just will not so what they want.
A Valkyrie pushes a heavy bullet with a good BC faster than a 223 can and lower pressures and fits in an
AR15 mag. And it isnt a barrel burner
A 22 creed etc will push a 88gr berger way way faster and burn out is barrel way way faster and will not fit into an AR15 mag.
For a bolt gun their are better options
@@captainamer71 Thanks for response. Have a great day!
In the 60s I used to hunt marmots with a 220 swift. I’d hand load 50 grain bullets and a 24” barrel.
It would push the bullets out at 4100 FPS. The issue was throat erosion. Barrels had very short lives and they had a terrible problem with yawing under 50 or so yards as well.
I moved to the 22-250 in the 70s and it was more accurate and barrels lasted longer.
I think the 224 Valkyrie is going the right way with heavier bullets. However it’s pushing into the 6mm range with more bullets and very good BC
Holy cow. I used to get 4,000fps with a 45-grain bullet in .22-250. I'd heard those 220 Swifts were fast, but dang!
They were fast but figure 3k rounds for the barrels. Luckily I was working for a gunsmith part time. My 22-250 used to push the 50 grain bullet at 3700. It was much more accurate ( different twist)
The swift is a hell of a good round. 4100fps is worth the price of more throat erosion to me.
No problems with my swift ,I shoot 55 grn Bergers on varmints and 60 grn nosler partions on deer when I come to rebarrel I will go with a 1-8 twist and make it a 220 swift AI ,it's a ruger no 1 with a 26 ins barrel I'm old school , but the 224 Valkyrie is a interesting round, but the next calibre I add to my gun safe will be a 6.5 Grendel in a cz 527
thesheepman220 sounds like a nice setup. I used to shoot the 6.5 Remington mag that was a nice round out of a short action. I suspect that Grendel has similar ballistics. The ballistic coefficient of the 6, 6.5 and 7mm seem to all be excellent.
22-250 R.E.M. Luv it !
No AR-15 in 22-250. 1,000 yards with a 22-250? The 224 Valkyrie is irrelevant if you don't want to use an AR-15 and you don't plan to shoot long distances. Of course, every single cartridge on the market -- EVERY SINGLE ONE -- can be made to look 'irrelevant' if you take it out of its intended use. For hard-target sniping in the military, 22 LR is irrelevant. For low-cost plinking without being too disruptive to the neighbors, 50-BMG is irrelevant.
Bottom-line: it's as irrelevant as you want it to be.
TROOPERfarcry see your point there.
its technically an ar-10 but alex pro firearms makes one... made it for a while now
Olympic Arms makes a 22-250 AR15 model. Accepts all other mil spec AR15 components. Just need the 22-250 Mag and 22-250 UMAR lower with the machined Mag well.
Both of which don’t qualify as an AR15. TROOPERfarcey is 100% correct.
Snipers like 300 Rem. Ultra Mag over a 22 calibered round ..
Tikka offers a 1:8 twist rate on the T3x for the 22-250. Ruger does too on their American, and I’ve seen it on sale for less than $280 in stainless.
Ruger American is good that way. My 7mm08 is a half inch shorter twist than most.
Hand load a 90 smk in a fast twist 22-250 and you will smoke the valkyrie all day long.
Exactly. I've built a 7 twist 22-250 with a 26 inch shilen tube on a savage model 12 action. I absolutely love this cartridge with the 90 grain bergers and the 90/95 grain sierras.
Turns a 22-250 into a legit 1000 meter rifle
@@davesweeney871 that sounds like an amazing combo. All because it won't fit in an AR the 22-250 is being missed out on by everyone.
@@gw9853 22 250 is built on an ar platform
@@bwlngod lol no it is not.
@@bmacski
AR 10
Great discussion! As you mentioned, the biggest advantage of the 224 Valkyrie is that it fits in the AR 15 platforms. On the 22-250, I don't know anybody that shoots one and does not handload, and you can get the same 90gr bullet going at 2900FpS (33gr Hogdon H4350). Having said that, I am looking at building and upper for the Valkyrie and retiring my 243 varmint gun in its favor.
I had a custom barrel from Rocky Mountain Rifle works with a 1/8 twist to shoot SMK80 grainers at 3000fps in 22-250. I have shot it out to 2000 yards. With a scope with 140 MOA. Fun cartridge.
Good gravy. That does sound like fun.
That sounds like the ticket
I believe the fastest twist rate from a factory barrel chambered in 22-250 is a 1-9 twist from savage in the model 12vlp and 12lrpv. Fast enough for the 75 grain bullets.
Now THAT'S cool. I didn't know that!
Ruger made a limited run of American rifles in 22-250 with a 1:8 twist. Similar to the 243, I'd expect to see some 22-250's come in the faster twists now because of the 224 valkyrie. Like he said the advantage of the Valkyrie is that it can fit in an AR. The heavy 22 idea has been around but I had read they were having jacket separation problems when driving the 90's really hard.
Thank you for the superb videos you post on TH-cam. I look forward to them with great anticipation.
Regarding this video, I shoot a Savage Model 12 in 22-250with a 1 - 9 twist and have no problems stabilizing 70 grain Berger VLD bullets with velocities reaching over 3300 FPS. After watching your video, I ran a simulation on my Ballistic AE app and found that the 22-250 will out perform the .224 out to 1125 yards when it goes transonic. The data is consistent with my real world experience albeit only through 600 yards. While the 22-250 is a dated cartridge, it still is very shootable over 1000 yards with the right barrel twist and bullet selection.
That's great to hear. I hope folks continue to tweak the .22-250. It's such an excellent cartridge. It's the first rifle cartridge I handloaded for; I made lots of mistakes, but it still shot tight, tiny groups.
Back in the 70's there was a master gunsmith in Central CA named Gerald Clarke... I had a Sako chambered in his "wildcat" .224 Clarke. It was, like 22-250; based on a larger case, .257 Roberts if I remember right. FLAT SHOOTER! 1000 yards all day shooting ground squirrels for bounty. Barrel lasted about 2500 rounds. My earlier 22-250 didn't last that long. It seems the .224 Valkyrie may solve those issues (at least in the AR platform), I will be interested to see what barrel life will be in future testing. Thanks for sharing!
Yes my man! The .224 Clark is an excellent unknown caliber! One that NEEDS to be more popular! One of my favs.
Btw, Tikka offers a 1:12 and 1:8 twist rate on their 22-250 on the new T3x, for those who want to stabilize a heavier bullet.
22-250 rem can easily handle 60gr bullets and some Boutique brands offer up to 70 grain bullet for 22-250 Remington really good long-range performance.
I use a 75 grain Berger VLD out of my 22-250 AI. Bullets stability is dependent on twist rate of barrel to the given weight of bullet.
Sounds like a really fun project. How long does it stay supersonic?
How long it stays supper sonic is totally dependent on the atmospherics for that day. Same for the 224 Valkyrie. With today's conditions just over 1350 yards.
Given length, not given weight
This is the way to go with a bolt action....... Your rig will outperform the Valkyrie 10 times........ By the way Bullet stability is dependent mostly on twist rate to bullet bearing surface ( the long bearing surface tend to make the bullet heavy !!!! lol )
@@SocialRegressive if it had a 7.5 twist with 80.5 Berger bullets it would be doing just over 1300 feet a second at 1200 feetmines does and with a 30 in barrel using 34 grains cafe great rifle shooting crows at 817 yards
You do a great job with your videos! Very informative!
Glad you liked it, Josh!
he said guess so I think he's about to try a 22-250 with a real slow twist and a longer throat. But folks he has a point about his comment to consider what you want and real-life use. For me, I bought a 22-250 for punching paper and chuck hunting figuring 500 yds would be the long end and 250-350 the practical range. at that point, the 22-250 will hold it's own quite well.
Many years ago I skipped the 22-250 and purchased a Remington 700 in .243, the smallest center fire caliber most state require to take dear. The 224 Valkyrie is an outstanding varmint load, including coyotes and is very accurate out to 1000 yards. I know it is touted as a 1300 yard round, however, I have never seen it shot that far.
My rifle: A Remington 700 with a 26 inch 1-9 twist Bartlein Barrel chambered in a 22-250 Ackley Improved (with a 40 degree shoulder). Loaded with a Sierra 69 gr. Match King or Hornady 73 grain ELD bullet, it beats the 22-250 Remington loaded with a 45 to 55 grain bullet and the 224 Valkyrie loaded with a 80 to 90 grain bullet.
The shorter case design of 224 Valkyrie allows you to load the 90gr Berger BC of .551 or the SMK 90gr BC of .535. Can’t come close to those BC’s in 22-250 and keep COL within SAAMI spec
65 Grendel FTW, deer hunt with it, better long range stability... I can consistently hit the 500 yard steel at my range. But you'll never find ammo or magazines locally. Buy everything online :/
Ryan Trials 6.8 better for hunting
I'll stick with my 308
idlehands333 no sir, 6.5Grendel will do everything the 6.8 can do, better than the 6.8, and more. Better short range ballistics, better long range ballistics, larger range of bullet weights. There's a reason the military never adopted the 6.8 round, yet the 6.5 Grendel is in trials presently for both US service and HAS been adopted by a standing government military.
jimhans1 incorrect. The 6.8 wins within 350-400 yards then the Grendel surpasses it. However, they are both so close in both close and long range performance that the difference is negligible. The reason the Army stuck with the 5.56 is because of the logistics required to change caliber. Too much time, money, effort required to change to a caliber that may or may not be more effective in actual combat. That and nothing beats the 5.56 in weight and carrying capacity while still remaining effective.
jimhans1 6.8 also superior to 6.5 out of a short barrel at any range.
A lot of great information buddy, well done! I'm just still not sure if I'm ready to jump on the Valkyrie bandwagon just yet..
yeah, I remember when we were taking prairie dogs at 100yds back in dickity three. Good times, open sights and closed minds.
I like the way you later that out. I'm a fan of the 22-250 for coyote but love my AR, can't wait to see what 224 will make it it self, also couldn't help making the 224 th comment.
Great video! Could you also compare 6,5 cartridges like 6,5 Creedmoor, 6,5 Swede or 6,5 Grendel?
Why compare a 55 gr bullet with a 90? Not a practical comparison.
They are completely different cartriges. He said why he didnt. They do not make a 90gr 22-250 or even a 75gr.
You didn’t watch the whole video
It's very fun and challenging to push the limits of a small caliber. Shooting long distance with them to see just what there capable of can be very surprising. I have a video shooting my .17WSM at 500 yards. I've gone out as far as 615 yards with it but haven't made a video yet. At 615 it was going through a 1/2 thick piece of plywood. Very surprising.
I got my wife a savage 12 over black Friday of course I had to get the 6.5 creedmoor. $219 is what I paid and couldn't pass it down.
I've been watching your axis build (mostly the pillar and glass bedding videos) and I'm excited to start. Stock comes in on tuesday!
Which stock did you end up buying?
The Social Regressive, ended up getting the pro varmint with the coyote finish and cheeck riser. I wanted boyds because I need to cut it down to 12.75 LOP, any idea how workable the boyds butt pad Is?
You should be able to easily trim the length of the stock. When you reattach the buttpad, it probably won't fit perfectly, but you can use these techniques to re-snug it: th-cam.com/video/xQUTFow61Eg/w-d-xo.html
So we need a 22-250 barrel with a 1-7 twist and a blumpy
Joe Dirt 22-250 Mach 2, build it and they will come
Criterion makes a remage style barrel that's 22-250 in a 1:7 - Seriously considering it
i want to build a custom 220 swift with a 1 in 6 inch barrel and load it with 80-95 grain bullets
Great vid explanation. Probably 6.5 Creedmor on the Savage in the background although I still like the 7mm-08. REM7600
I got a 7mm-08, absolutely love 7mm
Insane bc's on them.heavier projectiles.
Very interested to see how the 224 Valkyrie performs in real world testing. I'm still thinking about getting a 6.5 Grendel spr together but man if this cartridge does like they say it does, that might change.
Colson Customs Grendel has the advantage of cheap Russian ammo for plinking.
That is does. A budget ar running nothing but steel cased 6.5 would be a pretty awesome plinker, no doubt. Only concern would be eating up a nicer barrel if it has a bi metal jacket. And honestly, I could probably get hand loads down pretty cheap either way.
Colson Customs sadly, there are not any truly cheap bullets for 6.5mm. I've got 4 Grendel's built, and will build a Valk, but it won't replace any of my Grendel's, the bullet weight range I can run (85gr-156gr) in the Grendel and the availability of the steel cased ammo win the day for me.
That is very true. I see the 224v as being a nice upgrade for people wanting to push the limits of 5.56 as far as heavier bullets with higher bc. 6.5 Grendel is something I would feel more comfortable taking a deer with which is far more likely than getting to shoot past 1,000 yards on paper.
Colson Customs I agree.
Not to long ago you could buy an AR15 with a modified Magazine that shot 22-250 from the factory.
That's awesome. I totally missed that one.
Found it! Olympic Arms UMAR. Weird!
can't find em anymore
In terms of the AR-15 form factor constraints (magazine length, bolt face) the 224 Valkyrie marries the super high BC SMK 90gr (.534) and even the Berger 90gr (.561) with the larger 6.8SPC case. There is no better performing long range option anywhere for the AR-15 form factor.
Peter Southern Boy I'll still stick with a 6.5 Grendel or if I just NEED a .224" bullet got with the .224LBC, I have a Valk barrel coming to test out, but it won't replace any of my Grendel guns/chamberings.
Olympic arms made a ar 15 in 22-250 and 243wssm. I have both uppers. a 25wssm is also available. One of the uppers is a piston gun with a adj gas block. It also has a proprietary magazine for each caliber to fit longer cartridges in a ar15 lower. The lower is cut out longer for the magazines.
Charles Wittmer while Olympic DOES make the UMAR15, it doesn't fully apply to this as it is only available with a 1:14 twist barrel. Which is great for Bullets up to 50-55gr, it will not stabilize anything past that. So no true long range use out of it. Also a pain for proprietary mags. That only hold 5 rounds
Best round I personally ever used was the old .25 REM fired from a model 30S Remington last made in 1929......the Enfield action handled very hotttt loads, very accurate at long range and packed a punch....... Why not neck/shoulder down a .30 REM to 223 (not a 30-06 case)
well done , very concise explanation.
I'm surprised they don't make an ar-10 for the 22-250
DPMS used to make one, if I remember correctly.
That would be wonderful if they still did. Or Rock River Arms with a heavy stainless barrel...
APF makes several models in 22-250
We sell the Apfs they are sweet shooters.
John Ganshow - yeah, DPMS tried, nobody wanted it. .308 and Creedmoor is where the demand is at for large frame AR’s.
Best explain of 22-360 I've seen. Know the bullet is light but at over 4000ft/sec can't be too much wind drift for first 200 yds. Just not in the air that long. One neg I've found to 22-250 is some indoor gun ranges ban it. Not sure why they just say it's hypervelocity. These ranges do not ban other .223 caliper ammo except for the Swift
At 4000fps it smokes straight through AR500 steel used for the bullet traps. The other rounds can’t generate the needed velocity to damage their bullet traps.
Great video. Well spoken and informative. Liked and subbed.
Thanks for subscribing! See you 'round!
Thank You...great video, from Italy....ciaooo
PERFORMANCE UPDATE FOR THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY:
And right on que as expected (because of Federals outlandish hype of the 224Valkyrie), and the fact that the Valkyrie is a slow childs caliber, another company has popped up to give shooters a real choice in performance offerings for the AR platform. You can now get custom match grade barrels for the 224grendel at TacticalCannon dot commmm (and no its not me just passing info along to the shooting community), they even carry the dies, pre made brass, match bolt/barrel sets. Pretty dang cool.
Great job on this review... 👍
I've seen a couple of comments about .243 and 6mm x 47 here and I have a 6x45mm AR that will shoot a 75gr out to a 1000. So maybe a 6mm Valkyrie with a 105 some day? Thoughts?
Absolutely. I'll bet right now someone's already testing that wildcat. There are 115-grain bullets out there, too.
Update... I finally found what it's called, plenty of wildcatters are working on the 6x6.8 SPC. Ballistics calculators comparing the 90gr 224 Valkyrie to a 107gr 6mm indicate about 25% more terminal power with about 5% more drop, so long range and bullet options for hunting.
Gary Carroll - you can’t run 107gr in a 6x6.8 at PRI mag length (2.3” coal) and it’s throated for bullets under 90gr... this comes from Ritch of Ritch’s Precision Guns. The more appropriate comparison is a 243 LBC which is. I had one with a 20” and could only get accuracy nodes around 2750 fps with a 95gr VLD. A 22 Grendel or 224 LBC would be the better option if high BC being pushed at AR15 pressures is what you want.
Just stick to my 243.
.243 is still my favorite cartridge.
Yep agree I can shoot 55 grain for song dogs or go up into the 100’s for bigger game all shooting very fast. Wind drift is going to get you if it’s going to get you in a hunting situation. Not like you have several shots to walk it in to steel like you can on the range.
The best cartridge doesn't always win, I'm a die hard 6mm Remington fan, my first rifle I owned, better than the 243 Wich I do despise. I love my 22-250 but as soon as someone builds a 22" version of the valkarie I'll buy one
I've always heard that from 6mm shooters. As far as a longer Valkyrie barrel goes, you should check out the new CMMG with the 24" barrel. That sucker's gonna be massive.
The Social Regressive I'll check it out, thank you
expect to see .223 and 22-250 cartridges with the same bullet as the .224 val soon. There are already hand loaders doing 90-100 grain loads.
I wanna say. 224 Valkyrie because of your past few videos... Looking forward to seeing the build
Great video and data information! For that you get a new subscriber.
I love my .224. it always makes me smile to hear the rhythm of repeated gong hits on semiauto. If I hunted past 200 yards, I would switch to something stronger, but out to 200, this will do just fine all day
(20", 1:7 twist, with a leupold mark 4 8.5-25x)
Well put. I'm a fan of the 22-250 and had one built about 5 yrs ago that is stupid accurate. I totally agree with your long range comparison of bullets. I limit mine to 500 yds. So for long range, I'm going to have another build in the near future but this time it will be in .260 Remington.....just as accurate as the Creed but 200 fps velocity edge.
I would say thAt savage bolt gun is in 7MM-08 or 257 Roberts
i have a browning x-bolt in 22-250 with factory 1:9 twist rate, heaviest factory load i can get my hands on at the moment is 64 grain winchester which is helpful for longer shots. looking forward to experimenting with some heavier hand loads though
Try the Berger 80.5 yellow boxes they are a great bullet
Yeah .224 val is the next 6.5 creed for AR15. Plus a lot of people don’t want to spend the money on an AR10. Hopefully PSA or Anderson will pick it up the round and make some uppers for people who want a budget long range gun. Can’t wait to see what the future has for us!
I get the feeling this one's going to be very popular.
I’ve had the 224 Valkyrie since it came out. It has disappointed time and time again. 90gr, doesn’t shoot for crap, loading with ELDM has been very finicky, and brass is horrible. With the 22-250ai or a 223ai they’re easy to load for and easy to find nodes for.
I've been hearing more comments along those lines.
The Social Regressive - I’d love for the Valkyrie to do great but not until a premium brass manufacturer comes out with match quality brass. Believe it or not all 3 brass manufacturers, Federal, Hornady, and Starline require major case prep to get right but the Federal brass has the best case capacity and after weeding out the loose primer pocket pieces, they’re gtg and I’ve been getting the best accuracy with the Federal brass once it goes through prep.
Love the .22/250 - under 400 yards it's a laser, but I never use it for long distance with light bullets. I'm always tempted to rebarrel it in 1-7" or less and launch 90gns bullets out of an AI chamber. But that's a project for another year.
224 valk has been haveing trouble with 90 grain bullets even with 1:7 twist. My Savage msr15 did not like anything over 75 grains bullet. I am a reloader and a gunsmith so everything was inspected. I got good accuracy in the .486 in with 60 grain pills.
I have a bergara b14 hunter 22-250 with a 1in9 twist barrel and I load the 75gr bthp match hornady bullet and can get between 3250 and 3350fps. I don't have but 500 yards to shoot it but it drops about an inch less than the 55grn vmax at that range. And it stabilizes great.
Don't sell that rifle. Or sell it to me. 😍
Love my valkyrie!! Super loud though. Also love my 22-250.
good data explained.................... thanks
I have a older Savage, bolt action, single shot with a 26 inch barrel with a 1 in 7 twist barrel in which I shoot a 90 grain BT hollow point bullet at 2950 FPS. Extremely flat shooting and extremely accurate
The biggest problem with 22-250 is the lack of faster twist rate barrels which dont allow you to stabilize heavier bullets. Heavier bullets weigh more but they also carry more energy making their drop pretty much the same. The more important part is the heavier bullets do better in windy conditions. Thats why the 224 does well at 1000 yards 90 gr bullet with a .224 diameter is great with wind. Its basically the AR15 versions of the larger cartridge used in the AR10. The 6.5CM. 22-250 on the other hand stops showing its greatness after 500 yards tops. Its made to use 55 gr bullets and with the same .224 caliber their BC is much worse then the 224 Valkyrie. The 22-250 is a close to mid range varmint cartridge and its great for that. The 224 Valkyrie is a ELR cartridge that doubles as a varmint cartridge. I appreciate the 22-250 and of course i have one but the 224 Valkyrie is more versatile.
If your shooting 800 yards or more, there are much better calibers than 22 diameter...
John Ganshow I shot a 2 3/4" group "3 shot" at 760 yards with my 22-250 AI. I love it when people say 22's aren't long range guns. Oh yeah an have several first round hits on ground hogs at 800+.
Michael, Not saying it's not possible, just saying there are better long range calibers from 800 to 1200 yards...
Anyone make factory loads for the 22-250 in a 70 to 80 grain bullet? Or would that be strictly hand loading. Then I would have to find a bolt rifle in a 1-8 twist...
J. Thanks!! Strange the factories don't offer heaver bullets in their loads...
Agreed, BUT, I think Federals intent behind the Valkyrie was for competition shooters, low recoil but still getting you to 1,000 yards with less drop and drift. But like the 6.5 Creedmoor (for competition upon inception) that was adopted by hunters, etc. Federal took advantage and is offering it for plinkers (75gr TMJ/FMJ), varmint hunters (60gr Nosler) and medium sized game hunters (90gr Fusion). Lot of people want that one rifle to do everything...
Anyone able to explain the hype of shooting larger bullets out of a .22 calibre rifle? Why not go up to a .243 or 6.5? Is it mainly so those with ARs can stretch out their range?
Having a custom 22-250 barrel made to a longer throat witha 1 in 7 twist is child's play for barrel makers these days and one could easily have several made for a Ackley Improved version of the 22-250 Heavy Bullet Special and wax the Valkyrie until the cows come home..... Just because you have one in an AR and you have "fire power", what do you really have in the real world against a good Bolt Gun? Not much. Besides, I doubt that the .22 will get enough interest with the 6.5 CM taking off as it has to gain much but a small and specialized following in the Valk. The 22-250 on the other hand has a well established and loyal following from the 1930s!
Hullo Buddies, please, what about the barrel's longevity using the .224 Valkyrie?
Food for thought. The Hornady Manual lists hand loads up to 80 Grains for the 22-250 traveling upwards of 3200FPS with a with a ELD .457 BC bullet. I have seen AR-10 uppers listed for sale for the semi-auto AR platform crowd. Given those numbers I would think that the 22-250 should be able to keep pace with the 224 Valkrie to at least 1100 yards before it goes subsonic. Given that the hornady reloading manual tends to be a little conservative with its pressures, you might be able to push that 80grain bullet even faster.
260 in a ar 10 once you leave the ar15 platform. I have a 243 wssm in a ar15 and it shoots win ballistic tips great but it is finicky to load for. the 65 cm can use a longer bullet than the 260 in the ar10
Very informative!
In the Hornady reloading book, they prefer 75-grain ELD-Match with 1:8 twist rate, but I cannot find any off-the-shelf rifles with that twist rate, the closest is 1:9
You might check Savage. They used to make one in 1:8.
I've been a strong proponent of 22-250 (but not 22-250AI) with heavy bullets for years now. I got into it because i could hand load for them much cheaper than my 308's
I run a Savage model 111 & 12 with pacnor barrels (and chassis systems so i can squeeze every bit of accuracy out of them as possible) with 90gr smk all the way down to 69gr loads
I think people have a lot of misconceptions about heavy 22-250's but a stout load with 90gr will shoot flatter than a 6.5cm with less recoil.
As for barrel life, i have close to 3000 through my model 111 which was my first and so far all is well. My newest built on a Savage model 12 and MPA chassis has a pacnor stainless barrel that i had nitrided so I'm expecting the barrel to last even longer yet but only time will tell
I want to have a .224 with a wider case and maybe some more weight like 120 grains. I love it, but I want just a little more energy. I guess what I'm saying is that I want it to have energy of the more powerful 6.5 Grendel while keeping its excellent ballistic performance.
It is currently still in production might I add
I know that centerfire ammo under .25 were not leagle for big game animals in the state where I live when I last hunted as they were considered to be for varmet hunting only
That's pretty common.
In my opinion if you want bullets of 90 to 100 grains, move up to .24 of .25 caliber.
They don't have the same BC in that caliber, they would have to be heavier.
How come you aren't comparing it to the 6.5 Creedmoor. It seems these two cartridges will be in direct competition with each other for long-range competition shooting.
Sooooooo, if I get a new barrel (with the proper twist) for my 22/250 and I decide to shoot the same 90 grain bullets, then . . .
But as others have noted, when shooting at 800 + yards, then there are better cartridges.
Oh if I were to choose anything outside of the AR-15 form factor constraints (magazine, bolt) then for PRS gas gun it would be 6mm Creedmoor and for LR hunting it would be 6.5 SAUM GAP 4S - but that’s not the OP’s thread. OP is about the AR-15 form factor constraints
Great video man, I'm subscribed now.
Welcome, JayJay! I hope you like the upcoming content!
Nosler makes their Model 48 in 22-250 with a 1-9 twist and they have load data on 80 grain bullets.
I hope we start seeing factory ammo with heavy bullets. The boxes would need big caution labels, though. :P
But 80 wont stabilize in a 1 in 9.
224 Valkyrie is ok for target shooting, I don’t see that it has a place in the hunting world though. I also don’t see a plethora of bolt action rifles coming out in this chambering so a custom job may as well be a fast twist 22-250 vs a 224
Excellent video...
Thank you. That is very positive. Know anything about stag arms ar 15. Thanks again.
Barrel a rifle in the Ackley improved .22-243, it will beat the pants off the .224 Valkyrie from either a bolt gun or an AR-10. Down side is that currently you still have to make your own brass for it, thankfully the parent case (.243 Winchester) is very plentiful.
It probably really comes down to not being able to get a standard .22-250 with proper twist rate for heavier bullets, where it likely would perform similarly or better than .224 Valkyrie. Personally, I'm really eyeing an AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel, but .22 Nosler seems like a serious contender as well. So many choices, it gets pretty overwhelming.
The Ruger American .22-250 has a 1:10 twist. I have one in a Boyd's stock using 62gr TSXs for PA deer & coyotes. 1:10 is borderline for a long 62gr copper bullet, 1:9 would be better. I don't get sub-1" groups, but 1"-ish @ 100yds. Which in PA is plenty since 99% of everything is shot inside 150yds anyway.
Do a video on .204! :) probably my favorite I feel like it would fit in between these two! How about you?
This is off topic but i am from Ireland and noticed that you sound a little irish in your accent......Anyway love the detail on your ballistic info.
My xbolt in 22-250 has 8:1 twist. Very accurate with heavier bullets
Valkyrie was not designed to be a 22-250 replacement or 22-250 equivalent. It was designed, first, to fit the AR-15 platform and provide for longer bullets for long range shooting. The case capacity on the Valkyrie is only 3.1 grains more than 5.56/223 (34.5 grains vs 31.4 grains). 22-250 holds 44.6 grains. The Valkyrie case is 1.6" in length, the 223 is 1.76". The Valkyrie is .16" shorter for use with long bullets (so the overall length stays within AR-15 specs) and holds a little more powder to make up for those longer bullets also being a bit heavier.
If anything, the Val is more of a 5.56/223 replacement than anything.
I'm building a long range/ coyote rig. I was thinking 6.5 cm. but I just might go with a 22-250 with a 1-8 or 1-9 twist. A 90g plus the 75g VLD would be a blast. Plus I could load up 55 grainers for the yotes. Or maybe not. Uggh. Decisions decisions. I'll be ordering the barrel in the new year from JC customs in Canada. He makes great barrels. Plus his price point is decent and not a long wait.
I'm shocked at how good those 75-grain bullets are. Even out of my little 16" AR, they stay supersonic past 1,000 yards. That's bonkers.
Kman31ca
22 250 .......
Hornady Superformance 55 grain is my guess for which cartridge you had your new Savage chambered for.
I have been wondering if you had a 224 Valkyrie Barrel with a 1/0 or 1/12 twist barrel and loaded the 224 Valkyrie with a 40 or 45 gr bullet would you have a 22-250 in the 15 platform
What is the difference in the Valkyrie and the 6.5 Grendel? That would be a good comparison to do I think. What do you think. Is the 6.5 not a 224. cal? Thanks
What if the 22-250 had a ballistics nose? I'm assuming that might Aid in the accuracy. You should almost sit evenly with the casing.
I'm gonna guess it is chambered in 22-250.
The only offerings in the FV are 22-250 Rem, .223 Rem, .308 Win, 6.5 Creed, and 204 Ruger.
I'll stick with my 22-250. I've got my AR, don't need a pretender.
So I have always thought about building a 224 with a 1 in 12-13 twist to run 35-40 grain bullets for Prairie dogs in a auto platform how do you think it would stack up against the 22-250 that way
Sound like a fun project! It won't stack up against .22-250's velocities due to the difference in case capacity, but I would expect stellar accuracy from the .224 Valkyrie case. Those sharp-shouldered, short cases are well known for producing consistent velocities.
55gr 22-250 is old school. We've got slower twists and heavier bullets now
You meant faster twists not slower twists 1 in 12 is faster than 1 in 14. And I am sure you can get them faster. A 1 in 12 works great with a 62 grain boat tail. I have not tried higher, but I don't shoot beyond 300 yd anyway.
Do a 204 Ruger vs 224 Valkyrie.
Yeah id like to see the matchup too. Have .204 and use on coyotes, awesome!
Hey man, I forgot who built it and put it out but I'm sure a quick Google search will tell you who , but there is an AR-15 chambered in 22-250 that you can buy.
I have a 22-250 with a 7.5 twist rate and a 30 in barrel which is shooting 80.5 at 3398 feet a second and killing crows at 817 yards but have some new Hornsby 90 ATips which am going to try cause she shoots a one hole group with 90 grain Berger same as the 80.5
Oh, heck yes.
I am using cfe powder 34 grains and Remington action with a grs stock great rifle hoping to make some videos of it shooting now that I have a tacacam coming so looking forward to it
Just about any out of the box 22-250 with federal premium 60 grain Nosler Partition store box ammo are absolutely lethal on whitetail from 400 yards on in. The Mighty little 250 is a straight up Monster in hiding with the right load and in capable hands. The behind the shoulder exits are unbelievable for such a small caliber. I have yet to have a deer take as much as 1 step either. Seeing people using 338 rums on whitetail is just ridiculous and wasting a lot of good meat that many people need. Ballistics are nice, but just like in sports, paper champs are not field proven like the venerable old 250 is.
If you are going to use an ar15 platform the Valkyrie is the way to go but just for comparison I have a custom 22-250 rem with a 27" bartlein barrel with 1 in 7.75 twist rate. With a 75grn A-max muzzle velocity is 3400fps and with a 200 yrd zero my drop at 1000yrds is only 220 inches. The longest groundhog kill with this rifle is 1026yrds.
Hmmm, i am guessing a .204 Ruger, a nice small round that goes 4400 fps on Hornady 24 gr NTX Ammo.
Hi. Looked at a valkry 224 , it was nice . Also saw a Sig Sauer saint. Is one better
Which rifle was the 224 Valkyrie? The Savage?