Here you go working for Hornaday and bad mouth old reliable proven cartridge to sell for Hornaday. I knew something was coming hearing said some nonsense. Don't need to see anymore I am out of here
I agree you can kill anything on most contents the only way they do this is get something hot quit making ammo for the parent cartridge so they can sell guns
Plus as a reloader I can use multiple different powders the brass casings last a long time as well and cheaper to buy and find than the modern casings. I have two 6.5 Creedmoor's that I barely ever touch I prefer my 30/06 and 7mm Rem Mag.
@@TheGunNerd taken account different factors they are best. You must consider availibility of ammo, 308 and 300winmag are in military use, which means that there are more manufacturers for those.
@jaripukki267 308 will never die bc it's 6.5 creedmoor but 30 cal so it doesn't want to fragment, and it can stretch its legs out to an easy 300 yards while not being overkill up close
@jaripukki267 I could easily see 300 win mag fading away bc while a magnum 30-06, there's better options for "I want to shoot big bullet way over there and still hit super hard." It'd take a while, but I can easily see 300 win mag giving up the crown, especially seeing as the us military is phasing out its win mag rifles
My old Win Model 70 in .243 Win from about 1980 era still shoots moa or less groups with cheap factory 100 gr soft points if I do my part. That trusty old rifle has taken numerous deer and even a big black bear.
Yeah, this is a bench shooting platform and not a hunting thread! As a retired LE firearms instructor had plenty of local hunters bringing their rifle, scope and ammo in to be set up and zeroed. Most hunters in this area normally do not shoot over about 150 yards. Because you take them on the 200 yard range for a final zero and they're like I ain't shooting that far. As far as factory loads the Hornady Whitetail is one of the worst ! Open a box and weigh each one and I have had 2 grams not grains difference! My advise is to weigh every round and separate by weight, because if it doesn't weigh the same it's not going to hit the same point! I'm by no means hating on Hornady projectiles because I prefer one of their for my black powder rifle! It is consistent and does a great job. Factory ammo is run in large volume and machine wear and built up causes issues. CoreLokt, AAC and Winchester in that order are more consistent. Apparently their QC is better. So for all the Hunter's stick with the old tried and proved caliber of your choice be a little picky on your ammo and enjoy hunting! Benchrest guys stick with the custom builds because factory stuff doesn't win competitions !!!
The 30-06 cartridge was designed for Black Powder and not modern propellants that burn way faster. And why most modern cartridges are designed with a sharper shoulder angle to increase efficiency.
The 30-06 was not designed for black powder. Smokeless powder had already been around for ~20 years when the 30-03 first came on the scene. MR-21 was the original powder used in testing and production, a smokeless, not black, powder. In ~1930, they switched to another smokeless, IMR-1185 Even the 30-40 Krag was developed for smokeless powder, and it predates the 30-06 by about a decade. Other cartridges predating 30-06 that used smokeless - 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser and 7x57 Mauser.
@@JJ-iu5hllol yeah nearly 100 years ago when smokeless powder was the new thing. That’s what’s misleading about this video. There are newly designed bullets out there to maximize performance in the old cartridges. Once you do that there is t much to talk about
Great video Pete, but the one thing that isn't talked about is that the modern cartridges are far more expensive than their older counter parts and harder to come by. I have 2 7mm Rem Mags and rounds are far easily found and much cheaper than its 7PRC counter part. Lets not talk about the Hornady debacle with the powder used, that they cant even meet their own advertise speeds on the box. Unless your a pro competition shooter, the older cartridges are just fine and more than adequate for the hunter shooting 500 m/y and in. Just my 2 cents. :-)
Exactly, these "ancient" cartridges get the job more than done, only reason those new ones really exist is because they need to make money. Not even to mention if you handload your 7mm Rem Mag you can easily outperform the 7PRC. They keep trying to reinvent the wheel.
@@duckgrape2455 He literally says this list doesn't apply to reloaders because of your exact reason. For people not wanting to get into reloading, the newer rounds are just better if you're shooting factory. Reloading isn't for everyone and some people still want to get the "best of the best". So yes, that market is aimed at those people. And that's the whole point of being a company, is to make a profit. If making new cartridges means more profit, of course they're going to do that! And they're not trying to reinvent the wheel, they're just called optimizing. Speaking of wheels, go look at the tires from 1980 vs 2024. They're still tires, but they're BETTER. You'd be an idiot to buy the 1980 designs for 2024, and guess what, they're more expensive because that's how a free market works. Kind of the same can be said for cartridges. Why buy older rounds when new rounds are better in every way? The only reason would be cost savings, in which case, sure don't buy the cartridges and stick with the cheaper one. Because you are right, they do still get the job done, just not AS good of a job.
@@samueldesousa3134 also 7mm PRC is just a simple copycat with a little Flitter here and there from the 2004 introduced but commercial not succesfull 7mm Blaser Magnum
@@Chris-te7uk I get it and can appreciate the new cartridges and respect your and everyone's opinion. If your a competition shooter and reloader, I would think that there is far better rounds than the 7 PRC to go long distance. The 338, 375/408 cheytac, 416 Barret to name but a few. The 30-06, 7 Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag and a few of the older cartridges will easily go 1000 yards and longer, just ask Carlos Hathcock. Hathcock generally used the standard sniper rifle: the Winchester Model 70 chambered for .30-06 Springfield cartridges, with the standard 8-power Unertl scope. Hathcock made a number of kills with this weapon in excess of 1,000 yards, including his record for the longest confirmed kill at 2,500 yards. The point I was trying to make is that the there are so many new rounds coming out that are so slightly different from each other but not living up to the hype, in my opinion. It just seems like marginal gains. These gains may mean something for competition shooting but not so much else where. These rounds are not getting their advertised speeds and they are expensive to shoot. From what I see a box of 7 Rem vs 7 PRC, the cost for the PRC bullets are up to $15-30 more a box. I hunt and plink and yes would like to go the distance but not possible where I live. That said, if it your after the newest and best then chase the dream. For the average shooter and hunter, the old cartridges are easy to find, perform well and are cheaper to shoot. Once again, only my 2 cents :-)
The biggest issue with cartridge selection really boils down to price and availability for most people, particularly if you are talking about a gun that is intended to be used for hunting. Cartridges like the 30-06, .308, .270, .243, ect. will almost always be available everywhere off the shelf (in the U.S.). Most guys that buy a rifle that is hard to source ammo for, either end up sticking in the gun cabinet, or selling it. Most of those aforementioned rounds can still be found regularly at your local Wal-Mart, in stock. I'm not trying to rain on the parade of the new chamberings but i'm not really into early adoption of new loadings. I've seen a lot of cool cartridges over the years that have become unobtanium because they just never took off, and guys that picked them up early sort of got hung out to dry for factory ammo selection. If you're serious into sport shooting, and especially if you're into hand loading, then the sky is the limit. Otherwise it's safer to stick with the proven popular cartridges, that will be available when you need them. A few of the guns that i have bought over the years were decisions based on price and availability of ammo, where the cartridge chosen was adequate to suit my needs.
my 30-06 pushes a 215 berger at 2660fps, matches 6.5 creedmoore drop and drift with a huge amount more energy... if ur a handloader, the 30-06 is still incredible.
@@Adventures4Lou very true, but the 30-06 is very very capable as a long range cartridge. If a 6.5 creedmoor can do it, the 30-06 with the right load is actually better, I think telling people not to buy a 30-06 is silly.
@@440capnhook mine weighs about 10.5lbs, recoil is very manageable, if imagine with a muzzle brake it would be very comparable to a 6.5 creed or maybe even a 243.
I've got 212eldx that I plan to work a load for, and theoretically it matches external ballistics of the creedmoor with 143eldx. But yeah, outside of competition, I have zero interest in new cartridges. 6gt is my competition gun
not only that, i can wander into a hardware store and buy 308 or 3006. ask them for 300 prc and they will think im giving them a part number for lawnmower spark plugs. for normal people and practical shooters, performance is not the only factor.
Friend and I took 13 Springbuck and 3 Kudu last weekend using a 30-06 and a 6.5 Swede Couple freezers full of meat and 250+ years of legacy - whats not to love
its not a flex to say you use something less efficient and neither of those cartridges are anywhere near that old. you can shoot a .45-70 out to 600 with iron sights, why are you such a bad hunter you need bottleneck cases. you probably used jacketed bullets too. shouldn't even be in the field. see how stupid that sounds. its like saying you drove across the country in a rusty ford taurus and bragging its not a newer car. ok.
@@joshuarosenwald6490 where am I in Africa now? where do I live in Africa? or, have I been to Africa, but currently am not there? what are you asking me.
@@hotramen5952 lol I wasn't asking you anything! I was asking original commenter...im not even sure what you said?...read what u said you should clean that word salad up...maybe don't put so much dressing on lol!
@@h4l414 hey don’t forget the 7mm rem mag. All these modern shooters hate it because it’s a belted magnum 🤣 when I come across these youngsters who tell me I it is old & belted I just tell them “ well son daddy has to wear a belt to whip that ass”🤣🤣🤣🤣
I’ll take your word for it but some of those “old school” loads are much more plentiful and cheaper to source. For example 308 and 5.56 are very common in the US and is manufactured in large amounts for the military.
Me watching the video: Hmm, yes, makes sense, plan for the future. My safe (full of Federal Value Pack .22lr and surplus, corrosive 7.62x39): No you won't.
@@brett5990lord have mercy on you. I once made the mistake of asking a Facebook group if I should get a Savage Axis in .308 or 6.5 Creed. I swear it felt like a twitter feed with everyone just tearin each other apart. Out of the few hundred comments 15 were even remotley helpful. Everything else was people just hating each other for saying one is better than the other
@@d.h.9616if it sucks so much why is it still so popular? 😂😂😂 and why are most of these new cartridges dying off so quick and becoming unpopular so quick available, affordability and proven
Ah, but to me, the 7mm Rem mag is a new round, as I use its parent, the 275 H&H. Lots of used 7mm mag brass to resize and reload, just little to no loaded ammo. Have fun
@@revolverguy651exactly all these new cartridges do is shoot flatter then but who is shooting that far most shot in a hunting situation are 200 yards and under. Most these people are target shooters
any of the previous cartridges are perfect. I would recommend it over anything he recommends. largely due to availability and it still gets the job done. Also, some of it is damn cheaper@davidandre886
375 EnABLER. Seriously though, Hornady has designed excellent cartridges here and they have good market support. I just thought it was funny because the information presented could have been said in a 30 sec short.
@@PetterBR Minor disagreement. A lot of 260s won't chamber (or the mags are too small) the 155 gr Lapua Mega/156 gr Norma Oryx/160 gr Woodleigh Weldcore. For 140 gr bullets, yeah, 260 Rem is hard to beat. I prefer my 6.5x55 Tikka to either 260 or 6.5CM, tho.
@@PetterBRprobably dont find much 260 factory ammo or factory chamber guns for that matter lol but its a great case, ideal if you build a custom gun and handload
@@PetterBR availability does matter in this opinion. 260 is great but doesnt have near the rifle options or ammo options. I can see the creed having a major advantage there. Like i said you have to build a custom gun and handload to really benefit from a 260…now the 7 rem mag or 300 win mag vs the PRC equivalents…that is a opinion based discussion since both are available in guns and ammo
One huge factor you overlooked is availability and price/performance. If I can’t find a cartridge in a rural area, it’s not going to be on my have to get list. .308 is not only ubiquitous, but until NATO changes from 9mm, 5.56 x45, and 7.62x51, I’m sticking with those rounds. The 6.5CM may eventually catch up to the .308, but availability is spotty, and at $1.75-$2.50/round, it is cost prohibitive for a lot of shooters for a day at the range. There is no surplus, and very few reloads in the commercial market. Even 7.62x39 steel cased ammo has almost tripled in price since 2015. As short term demand skyrockets, the cost of shooting the 6.5CM may exceed the cost of the firearm in a year’s worth of usage.
Tikka make a 6.5x55. This round was probably the most ahead of its time ever. It used heavy bullets 140gr / 160gr. In a modern rifle like the Tikka, its pretty much the same thing as the 6.5cm.
Pretty much the same except that, in a modern rifle like your Tika or my CZ, the significantly larger case capacity of the 6.5x55 allows it to be hand loaded to performance levels that the creedmore can't hope to match without dangerously over pressure loadings. The creedmore is on my list to pick up someday but my two 6.5x55s make that purchase very much not a pressing one.
@@jrunestad4508The only benefit of the Creedmore is that it is a short action cartridge, but the Tikka is only made in a long action so there is no benefit. If you are buying a Tikka the Swede is the better choice.
If you’ve got a 30 at six, I would keep it. But 308 is nearly impossible to beat. The price and availability of ammo is unmatched. It is the large NATO round therefore it will always get the bulk manufactured discount. Every manufacture of ammo in the western world produces 308 for their own country and or for NATO it just makes sense to have rifles that always have ammunition for.
The fact that he didn’t address the 270 and 6.8 western ( the 6.5 and 7mm prc biggest competition and is the only non-Hornady cartridge) tells me all I need to know
Because no one is using a .277 caliber cartridge in any modern context. No one's shooting matches, no one's designing modern high BC bullets for it, and no one cares about the revamped 270WSM that Browning released a few years back. And I'm not even saying it's bad, I'm just saying I haven't seen ANYBODY except Hornady haters even mention the 6.8 western at all. The military has a hard-on for the 6.8 bullet diameter, but I think that's literally just because they looked at history and saw that when someone necked down the .30-06 to .270 they got better performance. Now they're hoping they can repeat history by necking down the cartridge that was literally supposed to be a 1:1 replacement for .30-06 but slightly smaller. For the record, one of my favorite cartridges ever is overshadowed on both sides by its competition. The 7mm-08 is looked at as a "women & children" cartridge by most .308 shooters, and it's seen as the old fudd round by many 6.5 shooters I've met, but it has a hidden ability that sadly can only be appreciated by a handloader. It can literally give the best of both worlds from its competition if properly handloaded. It can fire the same bullet weights as .308 which will have a higher BC than ANY 6.5 bullet, at still quite respectable velocities. I can shoot a 162-168gr bullet between 2600-2650 depending on powder choice that's available, and with those weight class of bullets I get 95-98% of the muzzle energy of a .308 and quickly overtake .308 after only 200yds and hold more energy at every range than 6.5 Creedmoor, while also maintaining drop and drift ever so slightly better than the Creedmoor (it's splitting hairs, but it's literally giving every benefit except for slightly lower frontal surface area of the .308 and also beating the .308 in the exact same ways a 6.5 does, with additional benefits. The .308 can launch heavier projectiles, but only at the cost of significantly lower velocity (to the point that not even the higher BC can salvage them at longer range) and with comparable BC bullets the Creedmoor is ever so slightly faster, but the 7mm is slightly higher BC which allows it tocatch up very quickly. I think if given the proper ammunition treatment the 7mm-08 is the best short action .308 family cartridge that exists, the problem is the VAST majority of loaded ammo is too light because people want as high velocity as possible. Coming from antiquated reasoning telling them that speed flattens trajectory (which it does, to a point, but we have technology now that allows us to correct for slightly more drop much more accurately while achieving much better performance through efficiency rather than raw brute force.
Surprise not to see 280 Ackley Improved. Nosler brought it to Saami in 07” and it got approved. Great 7mm option less recoil then the 30-06, same performance as 7rem mag and a wider variety of bullets then the 270win. But I guess from a factory stand point ammo choice may not be available for some but at lest where I’m at there’s 10 different factory loads available to me. But if you a reloader then it’s even better.
@@timothythompson6549 agree 280 rem is so overlooked and it sucks Remington failed to market it properly. There’s still tons of factory loads I’ve seen on the shelves and online lately. I still have a ton of 280 brass and un-open boxes of 280 rem that I have setting over the years.
None of the modern stuff is any good when a lot of the shooters using them cant maintain 1 moa at the distance those cartridges become more effective than the conventional counterparts
Nope. The performance advantages Pieter talks about are marginal and insignificant unless one is competing on the paper-punching circuit. For competition, yes, it pays to be cutting edge, because millimeters and even fractions thereof can make the difference between money and a wasted trip. For hunters and infantrymen, all those minor efficiencies won't make a darn bit of difference in bagging the animal or surviving combat. What hunter has ever thought, "I could do this shot with a 6.5mm Creedmoor, but a 6.5mm Swedish? Too risky." Ridiculous.
And thats only if you buy off the shelf . I get close to 6.5 prc speeds when hand loading my 6.5x55 . The factory rounds are way under powered because of the amount of ww2 and older rifles that are still around . But with a modern 6.5 sweed you can load up much better rounds .
@@davidheath2427 which bullets and which/how much powder? Just curious. I'm not leaning on mine too hard - abut 2400 fps with 160 gr Woodleigh PPSN on top of H4350. The way I look at it is I'd have to get over 2600 fps with that load to really move the needle on both ballistic arc and energy, and for me, the juice just ain't worth the squeeze. I have a tack-driving deer/hog slayer good for about 250 yards as it is. If I need to reach farther than that, I'll go out with my 280 AI anyway. Also, the only rifle for which higher pressure loads is really an issue is the Norwegian Krag-Jorgensens. The Swedish small ring M96 is about as strong as any modern rifle.
@smokedbrisket3033 I'm using 153 grain Berger hunters and ar2206. Not sure what the American or hodges equivalent is of that powder . They are going at about 2740 . No sign of cartridge stresses. But all firearms are different. I'm using a modern rifle not an old military. Tika .
@@davidheath2427 - AR2206 is the same powder as Hodgdon Varget. Seems like kind of a fast powder for a 6.5 Swede. Anyway, I also have a T3X - a lefty. AFAIK, that's the only LH 6.5x55 made. Maybe JP Sauer makes one in LH, but they'd be the only other one. I'm surprised you aren't using Woodleighs, too. Didn't realize you're in Oz. I correspond with the owner every few months, super nice guy. They're not quite back to full production after their fire in...2021 or 2022? Can't remember now.
I'm a bit older but new to shooting and hunting, so had no pre-existing bias, or opinions, and no qualms about adopting newer technology. When looking for my first deer rifle, I watched dozens of videos, looked at what most available in my area, best price point, and another half dozen factors. I even have friends that shoot just about everything, and I did take their opinions into consideration. Ultimately, I settled on the .270 Winchester. Couldn't be happier with that choice.
3006 has been getting the job done since 1906. I have hand loaded for it for years. Running the modern powders and new bullet designs make it a fantastic round. To many new rounds have come and gone, because of cost and only slightly better performance. But if you want to KEEP UP WITH THE GUN SHOP WATER COOLER GOSSIP, go ahead. I'll keep to my old firearms.
That’s all these guys do is get a hard on over these new rounds when people do real test head to head there’s no much difference they just like expensive shit look at his rifles behind him and his place he likes new and expensive new junk
I agree and disagree. Newer bullets have come a long way in terms of terminal ballistics. However, very few cartridges have taken as much or more large game in North America than 30-06 (most of those being classics as well). The "classics" are the classics for a reason Pete.
I am sorry, this video is a Hornady promotion video. The 6.5x55 se in a European action from 1960 and up will do everything and more than 6.5 CR. Thank you for not trashing the .338 wm. Case and cartridge design decades ahead of its time.
True about the swede, but good luck finding guns and ammo, at least in the US. I’ll take the 6.5 creedmoor any day and all day long and twice on Sunday. Other than just being different, (which is a fine reason), there’s no reason here to buy a Swede.
Well you don't need a long action rifle to shoot 6.5 Swede. I have rifles chambered in both and my Swede is nice but with factory ammo it really doesn't compare. Any way, I have built medium/long action rifles, they are 284 Winchester and 338 RUM. 6.5 Swede wasn't even a consideration. 284 is just more of everything, more bullet, more ballistic coefficient, probably more FPS, Lapua brass, lots of 1,000 yard benchrest championships, etc. 338 RUM was just an exercise in how much bullet I could fit in a CIP length long action and a beginner ELR rifle that didn't need an extra large action for 338 Lapua or bigger. With a short action I like 6.5 Creedmoor. If I was going for 6mm it would be 6 GT. The 6 GT is an evolution of 6 BR just stretched out to feed better from standard AICS short action magazines. If I had the money for a top of the line ELR rig, I would probably choose it by which bullet I want to shoot, then figure out who makes the best chamber for that bullet, who makes the best barrel rifling for that bullet, then choose a chambering that has good lathe turned brass available that will put it in the velocity it needs. I might even get a super heavy test barrel to play around with barrel length and tuners to find nodes so I could have a better guess at what will work for my "competition" barrel.
7mm08 is my favourite, but I think when he says 7mm in general is the goldilocks of calibres you can take that as a win. It’s just that 7prc is the newest. I think if you have any 7mm your on the board.
@razz_nz4143 I mean the PRC is a replacement for 7Mag, 280 AI, maybe arguablybthe .270 ince there's barely a difference in bore diameter. 7mm08 is meant to get the job done with less powder, and if anyone is going to try and replace it would likely be AR-15 length, maybe something similar to a WSSM.
i turned the volume down so my model 94 32 W.S., and Model 100 308 couldn’t hear. The 22-250 overheard and screamed from the other room,” Prove it!”. Good video, but that Hornady shadow is pretty huge in this one.
Give some love to the 7-08, better ballistics than the 308, not a barrel burner, and significantly more hitting power than the creedmoor. IMO the Creedmoor is more of a target shooting round meant for long range efficiency (paper puncher) but could still be used on lighter game.
Do not put the 30-06 down , you can do more with that round then one thinks . As a handloader you can have it shoot like a 22lr to full with a 220 gr. Also do not put the 22-250. 308 have more uses then any other besides for what I stated the ammo is not going to be hard to find and get.
I’m all for people being free to speak their opinions. I’m not one of these ultra sensitive folks who gets triggered by someone disagreeing. Personally I love the old cartridges, but it is interesting to hear things like this.
As far as I’ve found in person and online, 45acp, 30-30, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, 22lr and 12 gauge shells are the main cartridges that are worth the price, and most are under 20$ for a box of 20, less than 30$ for a pack of 50, and under 100$ for a tub of 1,400. Comparing rifle/shotgun, pistol, and 22lr respectively.
it should be, and I literally came to comments to tell him he screwed up not mentioning 270 Win as it's the most effected by what he's talking about. 1-10 twist barrels in .270 is a tragedy. Optimal bullet design would be around the 156gr weight and nobody makes a barrel that would stabilize that in 270 Win. 6.8 Western is going to fail because of lack of available ammo and very few mid range cost rifles, but it should explode off the shelves based on the ballistics.
I'll say it a 1000 times over..... No matter what new cartridge comes on the scene..... 30-06 is the benchmark to which everything is measured..... Sure the old '06 doesn't do everything the best, but it does "just enough" the best, and that's what the average shooter wants from a factory rifle with factory ammunition. I've never heard a dead buck's spirit say "Jeez pal, I'm telling you that new High BC bullet really did a number on me" or "That faster twist rate sure killed me dead in a hurry"..... Nope..... All he would say is "The last thing I heard was bang, and now I'm here" With modern components in modern rifles, the old '06 can compare just as good as it's counterparts. You'll still hit your target same spot as with some new Air Jordan endorsed PRC model. Oh..... shhhh.... Spoiler alert.... PRC = People's Republic of China = COMMIE!!..... 🤫🤫🤫🤣🤣🤣
🚨🚨 Trigger Alert! 🚨🚨 🤣 That aside, I don't need anything new...although the 'new' line Nosler cartridges are really nice, IMO...but yes, older cartridges still work fine. I'm not a Creedmoor fanboy...I....just ....can't...sorry. No.
Why I choose 300 win mag over 300 PRC. Ammo availability, Large amount of different factory ammo of each use case, Price of ammunition, 300 win mag performs everything ill ever need. Sometimes the latest and greatest isn't exactly what's needed.
I have 35 year old Remington model 700 30.06 that I have used for 35 years, I have upgraded it to Magpul 700 long action with detachable magazine, last year and I replaced trigger with Trigger X field trigger, this year I removed standard barrel, and replaced with 26” heavy fluted barrel with M18 muzzle break barrel has 11.25 twist rate, I really like now that I can now shoot a shot every 2 minutes without barrel ever going above 73 F. I currently use Hornady 165 gr BTSP interlock and H4350 powder with large rifle primer. I now get much better grouping with. Heavy barrel. With Magpul stock I can easily handle recoil,
I agree in nearly every aspect of this video... but we have to talk about availability. It is quite impossible for me to aquire most of these new calibers as factory ammo. I'm not reloading myself, so i'm stuck with stuff from the shelf. Gun stores are not always the fastest updating their inventory up to new standards, so i have to depend mostly on "old" and common calibers.
So even as a hand loader why would I want to set aside loads/rifles I have spent hours upon hours developing that have killed game for years reliably to start all over with new reloading components that are hard to find and start that process all over again because somebody came out with a new whiz-bang cartridge. Im sure that many of these new cartridges do some things better than my old ones but dead is dead and I’m not starting over when I have something that works just fine.
Piet, " the 30-06 sucks" | " the 308 sucks" Henry, "bru you talking about me?" Piet, "the 6.5x55 is a fossilised dinosaur that nobody should use." Henry, "Friendship ended."
Let's just say for fun that I get to hunting camp and realize I forgot my ammo and the only store for 30 miles is a little general store. Which do you think they're more likely to have .300 prc or .30/06 springfield?
I have an old Browning 30-06 that might not be a match rifle, but since I rarely have to shoot farther than 200 yards, stuffed with my handloads it has never failed to put game in the freezer. Sure there are "new modern" cartridges that exceed the '06's performance, but for an older person that already has an old rifle in a older caliber, it's enough for me. I also shoot a 223 AI, a 22-250 AI, a 22-284, 6-284, and a few other wildcats. But I find myself reaching tor the old trusty '06 for most of my hunting.
This changes if you reload ammunition. .308 can use almost any rifle powder on the market, the Creedmoor cartridge family requires much slower burning propellants, which can be hard to find.
The 30-06 is a great 30 caliber cartridge for 165/180 gr bullets without going magnum or over bore. I cut my teeth shooting military 30-06 1903 SPFD and 8mm Mauser 98 military rifles with steel but plates. I might have been 11 or 12, and yes they did recoil some but not bad enough to turn me off. I have shot competition and hunted with 6.5C & 270WIN. Also hunted with 7-08, 280REM, 270WIN and 30-06. Now days I hunt deer in the western US and use a 270. With a well built custom 270WIN. I get outstanding accuracy and velocity using factory Hornady 140 SST Superformance ammo. I will never take a shot past 500m and the 140SST in this ammo has a mv of better than 3100fps, enough umph to anchor deer. When hand loading my 30-06 in a MOD70 Classic Winchester I was able to get 180 grain bullets to a mv range of 28**fps without getting to max charge. To upgrade to the modern well thought out 6.5/7mm/300 PRC means a lot more powder burned and harder components to find and pricier factory ammo just to get speeds that are nice but not necessary. My dream cartridge would be a 7mm Mauser cartridge giver the "Creedoor" design elements. Elements like chamber designed specifically for 160gr bullets, sharper shoulder and less taper in the side wall, kinda a 280REM efficiently redesigned. BTW enjoy your videos and agree about the 22 & 6mm Creed's.
A number of the arguments don’t seem to apply to the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x55 Swedish comparison. The difference between case length and COL for the CM is 22mm. For the Swede it is 25mm. Both in 1:8 twist. Seems to me the Sweede can handle longer sleeker bullets. Also, it has a lower chamber pressure.
if the 30-06 is so fricken obsolete why do so many manufactures keep making supplies for it, why is there so much load data available, why is everything compared to the 06 ? hmm! gotta wonder
While I don't shoot long range anymore, and being 49. I still hunt deer and the occasional elk with model 70 in 30-06 that my grandfather gave me when I was 14. I guess that I'm to old to change.
Most of development is very incremental in improvement in the past 100 ish years, if you already have the old cartridges there’s not much reason to get the new ones. This one is definitely generational where new shooters will be going for new rounds as they are _technically_ better. The most surprising not seen here was 280 ackley as the 60 something year old round is still very equivalent to the 7mm prc. There really isn’t much reason to get a prc over an ackley even today. And there’s 7mm saum and rum which don’t really have newer counterparts but those i guess were still created after 2000.
@TaeussKramme I have hunted with my M1 Garand and on occasion with my AR-10 in 338 Federal. I mostly hunt with my Model 70, because it brings back memories of the time spent with my grandfather and father and lessons taught and learned. They taught me things that kids now days don't seem to have.
Just go out and buy whatever gun you can afford. Hes targeting "new shooters" to the market with guns that basically have no support like 22 creedmoor, or guns that get expensive fast such as 375 chyetac at 10-18$ a shot. Pick up a 308, a 30-06, 270 or whatnot because theres an a$$ ton of guns for all these old calibers at relatively cheap prices, especially compared to some of the stuff hes recomending. The 6.5 creedmoor has far more availability on the market than 6mm creedmoor. But 308, and other rounds have those beat when it comes to availability and gun platform choices.
7PRC is just a 7mm rem mag without the belt. It doesn’t offer anything more other than more expensive components. For a reloader, 7mm PRC might be better if they don’t like belts. But its velocity isn’t meeting what was advertised. 7mm rem mag without a belt sounds like an amazing idea personally but I’ll treat it as a belt less 7RM and expect nothing more
I disagree about the 30-06. In a Remington 700 action with a SAAMI chamber, there is plenty of room to seat the bullet out longer. I've already done this. You are limited to 220 grain modern bullets, but that is plenty for hunting ranges inside 1000 yards. It is also the only long action SAAMI 30 cal cartridge with a .475 base. This allows getting one or two more cartridges in the magazine. Given all this, the 30-06 is still a contender with reloading in a magnum length action. Plus it will have better barrel life than a 300 PRC or larger cartridges. Now, if all you wanted to do is shoot ELR, then the 300 PRC definitely gets the nod for the 30 caliber, but make sure to have a muzzle brake or a suppressor as it will have a lot more recoil than the 30-06. There really isn't a 30 caliber cartridges with a .475 base that mimics the 30-06 to be able to replace it. It's more powerful than the 308, but less than the 300 Winchester or 300 PRC. Kind of a sweet spot.
300 WSM smashes 30-06.......... while being a short action cartridge Also a cartridge known for its accuracy, holding multiple records in shooting competition ( including the smallest 10 shot group at 1k)
@theprfesssor True, but it uses a .545 bolt face and not a .475 bolt face. There isn't any 30 caliber SAAMI cartridges with a .475 bolt face that can equal the 30-06. Also the 300 WSM is limted on over all length with it being in a short action.
@@rodgerthackeray7978 There is 1 cartridge that can rival 30-06 and has a 475 base, that would be 30 Thompson Center it is a SAAMI cartridge......granted though it is effectively a dead cartridge...... nearly as dead as the company that made it ( rip Thompson Center )
Didn’t know this was an Hornady informercial, say what you will about the .30-06, .300wm, or. 270, they’re still ringing steel at 1500+yds and costs 1/3-1/2 the price.
The 22, 6mm, 6.5mm were all standard size cartridges. Then you stepped up to magnum for 7mm and above. Furthermore, the moral of the video was "If Hornady designed it, shoot it."
If you need an intermediate recommendation, a 6.8 Western fits short action length with magnum bolt face (like 6.5 PRC). You get energies of heavy 30-06 with better ballistics. If it wasn't clear from the recommendations in the video, the classic long action case doesn't really fit the cartridge design trend because of its long aspect ratio. If you really need a standard bolt face long action cartridge, the closest one to the modern design sensibilities would be a 280 AI or 284 win, but i'm not sure if there are factory rifle offerings with the right twist (or even factory rifles whatsoever)
You guys are doing it wrong. Buy em all. I've got the 308, 6.5 cm and the 6.5 PRC. I honestly don't know if I could just pick one because they are all great in their own right. The PRC is kinda difficult to find ammo for and very expensive compared to the others but a great performer. The creedmoor just smashes deer and is very pleasant to shoot. The 308 doesn't try to destroy itself, ammo price/availability is great and it's overall performance is sufficient for most people.
Re: recommending the purchase of a rifle chambered for a "vintage" cartridge, it depends on what you intend to do with it. If you want to target shoot and are within a relatively short drive of your loading bench, it's a different situation compared to a rifle that you might take with you on a multi-day hunting trek. It's a question of ammo availability; nearly any place that sells ammunition will inevitably have a box or two of many of the older cartridges... .308 Win, 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, etc..., but isn't as likely to have the latest and greatest gee-whiz ballistic flavor of the month. Ideally, you'd never forget your ammo at home, or never drop it in a puddle/river, or never lose it... but stuff happens; and as we see with electric cars, when things don't go according to plan and you are outside of your own "area", there's something to be said for common availability of that which you need in order to keep going.
Biggest risk in traveling to a hunt is the airline losing the ammo. Definitely with you - I'm headed to Limpopo in a couple weeks, bringing my 9.3x62 and my 6.5x55. If the carrier loses my ammo, every gun store in Jo'burg will have ammo for both of those rifles.
Fun Fact CIP Old German 7mm have a 1:8.6 Twist Rate since they where introduced over 100 Years ago so a 7x57 and 7x64 can Stabilice up to 170-180gn 😉 same goes for the old 6.5x55SE 6.5x57 ... also 1:8.6 140gn are no Problem 8mm Mauser is no Problem to get 220gn to fly and you can also seat the Bullets way out till you get to the Lands so some old Calibers where way ahead of Time when it comes to Twistrate and how much the Bullets sticks into the Case, the slow Twistrate thing Was mainly a American issue.
@@danielrouw2593 as a Reloader with a modern Rifle 6.5x55SE beats 6.5 Creedmoor without Problems (SAAMI Specs for SE are a damn Joke CIP is ok 3900 bar but a modern Rifle with quality Brass even 4000-4100 Bar is no Problem at all) i shoot my 140gn with Reload Swiss RS60 at 856m/s out of a 22" Barrel 130gn at 902m/s Brass is fine no Pressure Signs Accuracy is great and yes i am a Hunter
@@lenzadlberger the usual yak reason given for the 6.5 swede being loaded lower is because of the older crag and Norwegian rifles chambered in 6.5 swede might not take the higher pressures, however modern 6.5 swede rifles have no such issues with pressure
@@giggergigger1 i know the Norwegian Krag one Lug Bolts are the Main Problem For the Swede with Factory Ammo, i have a Mauser M12 Expert from 2019 For this Rifle more "modern" Pressures are no Problem at all, Funny is that 6.5x55SE is the 4th cheapest Brass that Lapua Produce after 223 7.62x39 and 308 😂 and you allways find once fired Lapua Norma or RWS Brass online cheap as dirt in Germany
I enjoyed seeing what new stuff is available out there and try to keep an open mind, but cost and availability is always my first concern. As far as these “old” rounds go, they’ve been around forever for a reason.
Not to rip on your list, but you have to consider availability. In the land of powder and lead, alot of these modern cartridges are few and far between.
@Verdigris. I've fired 7mm08 and 6.5 cm back to back, and yes, the cm has a bit less recoil in the real world. Not the kind of difference that I'd run and trade in my 7mm08 though.
All your new cartridges make animals deader right? All your cartridges are hyped up by manufacturers, when you reload your own and Chronograph your own (psi with in SAAMI!) none of these "modern replacements are any better than the old. Don't throw out your 300 Win Mag and waste money on a 300 PRC. You can only be sooooooooooooooo dead. Never got into the Creedmore myth.
To be fair, most people have no justification for anything other than having a 22lr, 223, 308/6.5 creed, and 7 rem/(300 win) mag. 99% of hunters and shooters can’t out shoot the cartridge at the given range it’s possible to ethically hunt game. Ruger 10/22, ar15, and a tikka bolt action 308/6.5 creed and 7 or 300 mag covers all grounds
@@ArmedAndIndigenous Yep. Was just up in Salmon ID hunting. The Ace Hardware there sold ammo - 30-30, 30-06, 308win, 270, 7mm. Notice whats missing at your average place?
The Creedmoor line is the biggest fraud thrust on the American shooter in my lifetime. All of the line, is not better than what they are trying to replace. I could make this claim a thousand pages, but it would suffice to say the 6.5x284 is superior in every way. The 243 win is also superior and the 22-250 still remains the "Varminter" of choice. You can change the twist on the older cartridges if needed for the heavier bullets which are now the fad.
Wholeheartedly agree. And 6.5x55 does all that 6.5 CM does, does it better, is easier to handload and much easier on the barrel. .243 Win. is probably one of the best 6mm ever. 6.5 CM is one of the best... marketing operations ever.
Nice work. Great review of more modern cartridges. Shorter, straighter cartridges with faster twist rates are generally more effecient. The .22 Creedmoor is a 22-250 with straight walls and faster twist rate (so heavier bullets, slower velocity and potentially BETTER barrel life). 6mm Creedmoor, 243 with straighter walls, faster twist rate. 6.5 Creedmoor... 260 Remington done properly. Better velocity and less powder than the 6.5x55. I've got 2x 6.5CR and a 6.5x55. I still use the Swede, but it needs more powder and a long action. It's not great compared to the 6.5CR. 300 PRC looks like a 300 Win Mag without the belt, straighter walls... 7PRC, compare it to so many cartridges at long range. The 7PRC is close in terms of drop to 300 Norma, 7mm Rem Mag (but more space for longer BC projectiles). I think you got it all right!!! Even the old 250 Savage, blow it out, faster twist and longer neck and you get... 25 Creedmoor, which seems to be picking up in interest in PRS.
@IMPACTSHOOTING the sweed comes with a 8 or 8.5 twist rate and loads up nicely to just under 6.5 PRC speeds . Maybe not quite the neck angle as the prc . But leaves the needs more for dead .
Great video and good information. I am mostly a hunter/target shooter, not a long-range competitor and have been reloading since 1970. I stick to standard calibers in my rifles with loads that work for me and my shooting/hunting requirements. Your video is very informative with the new technology in ballistics and an 'eye-opener' on the efficiency of the new breed of rifle calibers. Some that 'pooh-hoo' the 'new' calibers forget that several of their 'traditional' calibers were, at one time, 'wildcat' cartridges themselves. The .22/250, .243 Win, .270 Win, 7mm Rem. Mag, .300 Win Mag, etc. were all 'wildcats' when they were developed. Technology marches on! Thanks for the information.
6.5 PRC: General Barrel Life: 1,500 to 2,000 rounds 7mm PRC: General Barrel Life: 1,500 to 2,000 rounds .300 PRC General Barrel Life: 1,000 to 1,500 rounds ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The expected barrel life of the 7 PRC is near identical to the 7 Rem Mag (PRC has slightly lower poeder capacity, but slightly higher max pressure), the .300 PRC is only alightly lower expected barrel life over the .300 Win Mag. Ultimately, bore diameter, powder charge, powder burn temperature and the peak pressure are what determines barrel life. For many of these cartridges, their old school counterparts should have very similar expected barrel life.
@@BLKSMShooting if you take the 7 Rem Mag and 7 PRC, run both with the same bullet and powder, at the same velocity, the barrel life will be near identical. That's not an opinion, just how the science works. If you really want me to, I'll run all the cartridges through GRT and the barrel life estimator I have. Also, to rem mag or win mag having 5k barrel life... maybe if you shoot it extremely slowly and barely ever put proper heat into it. If you shoot a PRC the same way - then it will also have an extremely long barrel life.
Surely prices and availability for ammunition should be a consideration, especially for new shooters coming into the sport. Performance aside, the price and availability for the PRC and Creedmore ranges will take a long time to rival the other cartridges mentioned, and that is assuming they will indeed be the standard of the future, which is a big 'if'.
Become a better shooter here - bit.ly/49bwZZB
For extreme long distance I would pick the 408 Cheytac. Just my opinion
i wonder if vortex is going to warranty thier clock xD
Here you go working for Hornaday and bad mouth old reliable proven cartridge to sell for Hornaday.
I knew something was coming hearing said some nonsense.
Don't need to see anymore I am out of here
@@lurebenson7722 BYE BYE
@@abcertweld Exactly as we found with 3 of our shooters.
Respectfully, Seth
30-06 has one of the widest range of loadings of any cartridge. 30-06 is eternal 🎉
I agree you can kill anything on most contents the only way they do this is get something hot quit making ammo for the parent cartridge so they can sell guns
Plus as a reloader I can use multiple different powders the brass casings last a long time as well and cheaper to buy and find than the modern casings.
I have two 6.5 Creedmoor's that I barely ever touch I prefer my 30/06 and 7mm Rem Mag.
.308 Winchester, 30-06 Springfield, 300 Winchester Magnum. They all bring the meat home! 💪
@@TheTGRproductions 30 cal fucks hard
@@TheGunNerd taken account different factors they are best. You must consider availibility of ammo, 308 and 300winmag are in military use, which means that there are more manufacturers for those.
@jaripukki267 308 will never die bc it's 6.5 creedmoor but 30 cal so it doesn't want to fragment, and it can stretch its legs out to an easy 300 yards while not being overkill up close
@jaripukki267 I could easily see 300 win mag fading away bc while a magnum 30-06, there's better options for "I want to shoot big bullet way over there and still hit super hard." It'd take a while, but I can easily see 300 win mag giving up the crown, especially seeing as the us military is phasing out its win mag rifles
@@TheGunNerd one of most used military calibers, so many other calibers will fade before, most of the newones allso
My 270 wincher shoots 150 grain bullets at around 3000 fps and makes 1 hole 5 shot groups at 100 yards of sandbags.
My old Win Model 70 in .243 Win from about 1980 era still shoots moa or less groups with cheap factory 100 gr soft points if I do my part. That trusty old rifle has taken numerous deer and even a big black bear.
Love the 270...do you handload
270 rocks killed a many whitetail with it .
Yeah, this is a bench shooting platform and not a hunting thread!
As a retired LE firearms instructor had plenty of local hunters bringing their rifle, scope and ammo in to be set up and zeroed. Most hunters in this area normally do not shoot over about 150 yards. Because you take them on the 200 yard range for a final zero and they're like I ain't shooting that far.
As far as factory loads the Hornady Whitetail is one of the worst ! Open a box and weigh each one and I have had 2 grams not grains difference!
My advise is to weigh every round and separate by weight, because if it doesn't weigh the same it's not going to hit the same point! I'm by no means hating on Hornady projectiles because I prefer one of their for my black powder rifle! It is consistent and does a great job. Factory ammo is run in large volume and machine wear and built up causes issues. CoreLokt, AAC and Winchester in that order are more consistent. Apparently their QC is better.
So for all the Hunter's stick with the old tried and proved caliber of your choice be a little picky on your ammo and enjoy hunting!
Benchrest guys stick with the custom builds because factory stuff doesn't win competitions !!!
@@alvinhyman6838Weird. My 308 shoots hornady AWs better than any other round.
It amazing that when all the cartridges are mentioned they always go up against the old 30-06.
Great caliber. Very accurate as well.
That is The Benchmark Caliber !
That 30-06 is The Benchmark Caliber !
I’ve never been a 30-06 fan but I love the 300win. Just personal preference, if I’m going above 308 give me the 300win or 7mm rem.
still the benchmark.
I consider .4 g1bc the baseline to which we measure everything against
Can you point out on the doll exactly where the 30-06 hurt you
🤣
Dirty six...... nothing better. Or?
The 30-06 cartridge was designed for Black Powder and not modern propellants that burn way faster. And why most modern cartridges are designed with a sharper shoulder angle to increase efficiency.
@@johnmartin5147 pretty hard to be designed for modern powders in 1906…
And don’t sit down in a hurry with a 30-06 in your back pocket next time
The 30-06 was not designed for black powder. Smokeless powder had already been around for ~20 years when the 30-03 first came on the scene.
MR-21 was the original powder used in testing and production, a smokeless, not black, powder. In ~1930, they switched to another smokeless, IMR-1185
Even the 30-40 Krag was developed for smokeless powder, and it predates the 30-06 by about a decade. Other cartridges predating 30-06 that used smokeless - 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser and 7x57 Mauser.
I love watching young salesmen reinvent the wheel.
Nice
Yeah, this is a commercial
OH NOOOO! INNOVATION! Did you know that young engineers and salesmen once pushed the 270? And the 300 win mag? Aaand... GASP... the ol' 30-06?!
@ I know right. Just like the 10mm which is my favorite handgun rounds. That being clarified, I think you missed the point.
@@JJ-iu5hllol yeah nearly 100 years ago when smokeless powder was the new thing. That’s what’s misleading about this video. There are newly designed bullets out there to maximize performance in the old cartridges. Once you do that there is t much to talk about
While others argue over which cartridge is best I'll just take my old. 06, pick a bullet weight, and go hunting.
Your Bringing the 180 grain punch
Garranteed to stop Grizzley in his tracks
This was an infomercial. You forgot to mention that unless you're shooting past 400-500 or so yards your gains are negligible at best.😂
Paid for by Hornady
Great video Pete, but the one thing that isn't talked about is that the modern cartridges are far more expensive than their older counter parts and harder to come by. I have 2 7mm Rem Mags and rounds are far easily found and much cheaper than its 7PRC counter part. Lets not talk about the Hornady debacle with the powder used, that they cant even meet their own advertise speeds on the box. Unless your a pro competition shooter, the older cartridges are just fine and more than adequate for the hunter shooting 500 m/y and in. Just my 2 cents. :-)
Exactly, these "ancient" cartridges get the job more than done, only reason those new ones really exist is because they need to make money. Not even to mention if you handload your 7mm Rem Mag you can easily outperform the 7PRC. They keep trying to reinvent the wheel.
@@duckgrape2455 He literally says this list doesn't apply to reloaders because of your exact reason. For people not wanting to get into reloading, the newer rounds are just better if you're shooting factory. Reloading isn't for everyone and some people still want to get the "best of the best". So yes, that market is aimed at those people.
And that's the whole point of being a company, is to make a profit. If making new cartridges means more profit, of course they're going to do that! And they're not trying to reinvent the wheel, they're just called optimizing. Speaking of wheels, go look at the tires from 1980 vs 2024. They're still tires, but they're BETTER. You'd be an idiot to buy the 1980 designs for 2024, and guess what, they're more expensive because that's how a free market works.
Kind of the same can be said for cartridges. Why buy older rounds when new rounds are better in every way? The only reason would be cost savings, in which case, sure don't buy the cartridges and stick with the cheaper one. Because you are right, they do still get the job done, just not AS good of a job.
@@samueldesousa3134 also 7mm PRC is just a simple copycat with a little Flitter here and there from the 2004 introduced but commercial not succesfull 7mm Blaser Magnum
@@eiszeit9795 i'm from Bavaria 😉 and yes there are some Cartridges that would be nice to have but are very hard to find in Europe.
@@Chris-te7uk I get it and can appreciate the new cartridges and respect your and everyone's opinion. If your a competition shooter and reloader, I would think that there is far better rounds than the 7 PRC to go long distance. The 338, 375/408 cheytac, 416 Barret to name but a few.
The 30-06, 7 Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag and a few of the older cartridges will easily go 1000 yards and longer, just ask Carlos Hathcock. Hathcock generally used the standard sniper rifle: the Winchester Model 70 chambered for .30-06 Springfield cartridges, with the standard 8-power Unertl scope. Hathcock made a number of kills with this weapon in excess of 1,000 yards, including his record for the longest confirmed kill at 2,500 yards.
The point I was trying to make is that the there are so many new rounds coming out that are so slightly different from each other but not living up to the hype, in my opinion. It just seems like marginal gains. These gains may mean something for competition shooting but not so much else where. These rounds are not getting their advertised speeds and they are expensive to shoot. From what I see a box of 7 Rem vs 7 PRC, the cost for the PRC bullets are up to $15-30 more a box.
I hunt and plink and yes would like to go the distance but not possible where I live. That said, if it your after the newest and best then chase the dream. For the average shooter and hunter, the old cartridges are easy to find, perform well and are cheaper to shoot. Once again, only my 2 cents :-)
The biggest issue with cartridge selection really boils down to price and availability for most people, particularly if you are talking about a gun that is intended to be used for hunting. Cartridges like the 30-06, .308, .270, .243, ect. will almost always be available everywhere off the shelf (in the U.S.). Most guys that buy a rifle that is hard to source ammo for, either end up sticking in the gun cabinet, or selling it. Most of those aforementioned rounds can still be found regularly at your local Wal-Mart, in stock. I'm not trying to rain on the parade of the new chamberings but i'm not really into early adoption of new loadings. I've seen a lot of cool cartridges over the years that have become unobtanium because they just never took off, and guys that picked them up early sort of got hung out to dry for factory ammo selection. If you're serious into sport shooting, and especially if you're into hand loading, then the sky is the limit. Otherwise it's safer to stick with the proven popular cartridges, that will be available when you need them. A few of the guns that i have bought over the years were decisions based on price and availability of ammo, where the cartridge chosen was adequate to suit my needs.
and they are the chepes ro bye.
my 30-06 pushes a 215 berger at 2660fps, matches 6.5 creedmoore drop and drift with a huge amount more energy... if ur a handloader, the 30-06 is still incredible.
And 30-06 ammo is available everywhere. Best all-round hunting cartridge. Pieter seems to focus on long distance shooting, which is what he does.
@@Adventures4Lou very true, but the 30-06 is very very capable as a long range cartridge. If a 6.5 creedmoor can do it, the 30-06 with the right load is actually better, I think telling people not to buy a 30-06 is silly.
It may be similar drop and drift but it does it with quite a bit more recoil. For a match shooter that is a deal breaker.
@@440capnhook mine weighs about 10.5lbs, recoil is very manageable, if imagine with a muzzle brake it would be very comparable to a 6.5 creed or maybe even a 243.
I've got 212eldx that I plan to work a load for, and theoretically it matches external ballistics of the creedmoor with 143eldx. But yeah, outside of competition, I have zero interest in new cartridges. 6gt is my competition gun
308 for life.
This video should be titled: "Does your barrel last too long? Rather buy one these barrel burners"
Hahahaha
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
not only that, i can wander into a hardware store and buy 308 or 3006. ask them for 300 prc and they will think im giving them a part number for lawnmower spark plugs.
for normal people and practical shooters, performance is not the only factor.
😂😂😂🤦🏻
@@ghostlight69420Haha yeah. Is that for the Husqvarna weed eater?
The old school calibers got us this far, I think we'll be okay.
With that rationale we would still be fine in caves too?
@@IMPACTSHOOTING Your analogy is absurd.
Friend and I took 13 Springbuck and 3 Kudu last weekend using a 30-06 and a 6.5 Swede
Couple freezers full of meat and 250+ years of legacy - whats not to love
IQ deficiency detected.
its not a flex to say you use something less efficient and neither of those cartridges are anywhere near that old. you can shoot a .45-70 out to 600 with iron sights, why are you such a bad hunter you need bottleneck cases. you probably used jacketed bullets too. shouldn't even be in the field. see how stupid that sounds. its like saying you drove across the country in a rusty ford taurus and bragging its not a newer car. ok.
Where u in Africa?
@@joshuarosenwald6490 where am I in Africa now? where do I live in Africa? or, have I been to Africa, but currently am not there? what are you asking me.
@@hotramen5952 lol I wasn't asking you anything! I was asking original commenter...im not even sure what you said?...read what u said you should clean that word salad up...maybe don't put so much dressing on lol!
Mr. Paul Mauser, and John Browning had it figured out a long time ago.
& Roy Weatherby made every cartridge better... starting in 1943
Outside of the 308/3006, 223, 12ga, and 22lr all the rest are just marketing.
@@h4l414 hey don’t forget the 7mm rem mag. All these modern shooters hate it because it’s a belted magnum 🤣 when I come across these youngsters who tell me I it is old & belted I just tell them “ well son daddy has to wear a belt to whip that ass”🤣🤣🤣🤣
@suzgabverdugo933 Nope, would be no ammo for it if things break down.
Not really
@@h4l4147mm rem mag has been around and been soo popular for so long that ammo is everywhere
Don't forget the trust 30-30
I’ll take your word for it but some of those “old school” loads are much more plentiful and cheaper to source. For example 308 and 5.56 are very common in the US and is manufactured in large amounts for the military.
‘Merica
Marketing. To make sales. To reinvent the old. To duplicate the old. In the name of selling. This guy is FOS.
Me watching the video: Hmm, yes, makes sense, plan for the future.
My safe (full of Federal Value Pack .22lr and surplus, corrosive 7.62x39):
No you won't.
How to start a fight,
Step 1: say 30-06 springfield sucks!
Step 2 :Sit back and relax!
Lol
Yes very true, I have had similar experiences shooting 6.5cm😂
@@brett5990lord have mercy on you. I once made the mistake of asking a Facebook group if I should get a Savage Axis in .308 or 6.5 Creed. I swear it felt like a twitter feed with everyone just tearin each other apart. Out of the few hundred comments 15 were even remotley helpful. Everything else was people just hating each other for saying one is better than the other
Well. It does.
@@d.h.9616if it sucks so much why is it still so popular? 😂😂😂 and why are most of these new cartridges dying off so quick and becoming unpopular so quick available, affordability and proven
I'll stick with the older rounds 30/06 308 7mm remington mag 270 win or Weatherby.
Exactly. There is nothing these new rounds will do that my 7 mag or 270 can't do.
Ah, but to me, the 7mm Rem mag is a new round, as I use its parent, the 275 H&H. Lots of used 7mm mag brass to resize and reload, just little to no loaded ammo. Have fun
@@revolverguy651exactly all these new cartridges do is shoot flatter then but who is shooting that far most shot in a hunting situation are 200 yards and under. Most these people are target shooters
Huh, didn't realize I was clicking on a Hornady commercial
🤣
What would you recommend? Pretty sure hornady has made the best cartridges for factory rifles for normal shooters.
any of the previous cartridges are perfect. I would recommend it over anything he recommends. largely due to availability and it still gets the job done. Also, some of it is damn cheaper@davidandre886
375 EnABLER. Seriously though, Hornady has designed excellent cartridges here and they have good market support. I just thought it was funny because the information presented could have been said in a 30 sec short.
In his defense Hornady has been the only one making new calipers to talk about
Pieter visits America:
Hornady- Hey Petey you want a lil spendin cash
Pieter- Yes daddy 🤣🤣🤣
@@PetterBRagreed, and it’s even farther behind the 6.5x55.
@@PetterBR again I agree
@@PetterBR Minor disagreement. A lot of 260s won't chamber (or the mags are too small) the 155 gr Lapua Mega/156 gr Norma Oryx/160 gr Woodleigh Weldcore. For 140 gr bullets, yeah, 260 Rem is hard to beat. I prefer my 6.5x55 Tikka to either 260 or 6.5CM, tho.
@@PetterBRprobably dont find much 260 factory ammo or factory chamber guns for that matter lol but its a great case, ideal if you build a custom gun and handload
@@PetterBR availability does matter in this opinion. 260 is great but doesnt have near the rifle options or ammo options. I can see the creed having a major advantage there. Like i said you have to build a custom gun and handload to really benefit from a 260…now the 7 rem mag or 300 win mag vs the PRC equivalents…that is a opinion based discussion since both are available in guns and ammo
One huge factor you overlooked is availability and price/performance. If I can’t find a cartridge in a rural area, it’s not going to be on my have to get list. .308 is not only ubiquitous, but until NATO changes from 9mm, 5.56 x45, and 7.62x51, I’m sticking with those rounds. The 6.5CM may eventually catch up to the .308, but availability is spotty, and at $1.75-$2.50/round, it is cost prohibitive for a lot of shooters for a day at the range. There is no surplus, and very few reloads in the commercial market. Even 7.62x39 steel cased ammo has almost tripled in price since 2015. As short term demand skyrockets, the cost of shooting the 6.5CM may exceed the cost of the firearm in a year’s worth of usage.
All you need is a 30-30.
Nonsense.
30-06 with 165-180 gr.
You're welcome.
Check out the new 190 class monos.
Increasing bullet weight in the same cartridge does not give more energy.
@@rishirajsaikia1323Yes, it does- if that heavier bullet has a higher BC and the proper powders are used to keep velocity up.
Rubbish.
30-06 with 110 Vmax.
...for the feels...and head removal.
@@anthonykgarland
Hah!
You know, there's always someone that take the conversation waaay tooo far.
Heh heh heh, we need beers, Australia!
When you need to be trendy...my old 7rem mag been stocking my freezer since 1976. Leopold gold ring, done lets go
Tikka make a 6.5x55. This round was probably the most ahead of its time ever. It used heavy bullets 140gr / 160gr. In a modern rifle like the Tikka, its pretty much the same thing as the 6.5cm.
Pretty much the same except that, in a modern rifle like your Tika or my CZ, the significantly larger case capacity of the 6.5x55 allows it to be hand loaded to performance levels that the creedmore can't hope to match without dangerously over pressure loadings. The creedmore is on my list to pick up someday but my two 6.5x55s make that purchase very much not a pressing one.
@@jrunestad4508The only benefit of the Creedmore is that it is a short action cartridge, but the Tikka is only made in a long action so there is no benefit. If you are buying a Tikka the Swede is the better choice.
And Mauser/Sauer make multiple models of rifles for the old Swedish round, it is still a popular cartridge. I have a M18 on order.
@@jrunestad4508 My Mauser 6.5x55 agrees!
And the 260 rem as well
If you’ve got a 30 at six, I would keep it. But 308 is nearly impossible to beat. The price and availability of ammo is unmatched. It is the large NATO round therefore it will always get the bulk manufactured discount. Every manufacture of ammo in the western world produces 308 for their own country and or for NATO it just makes sense to have rifles that always have ammunition for.
amen
Barrel burners vs. Barrel for life. Stick with barrel for life, 308 win.
The fact that he didn’t address the 270 and 6.8 western ( the 6.5 and 7mm prc biggest competition and is the only non-Hornady cartridge) tells me all I need to know
Because no one is using a .277 caliber cartridge in any modern context.
No one's shooting matches, no one's designing modern high BC bullets for it, and no one cares about the revamped 270WSM that Browning released a few years back.
And I'm not even saying it's bad, I'm just saying I haven't seen ANYBODY except Hornady haters even mention the 6.8 western at all.
The military has a hard-on for the 6.8 bullet diameter, but I think that's literally just because they looked at history and saw that when someone necked down the .30-06 to .270 they got better performance. Now they're hoping they can repeat history by necking down the cartridge that was literally supposed to be a 1:1 replacement for .30-06 but slightly smaller.
For the record, one of my favorite cartridges ever is overshadowed on both sides by its competition. The 7mm-08 is looked at as a "women & children" cartridge by most .308 shooters, and it's seen as the old fudd round by many 6.5 shooters I've met, but it has a hidden ability that sadly can only be appreciated by a handloader.
It can literally give the best of both worlds from its competition if properly handloaded. It can fire the same bullet weights as .308 which will have a higher BC than ANY 6.5 bullet, at still quite respectable velocities.
I can shoot a 162-168gr bullet between 2600-2650 depending on powder choice that's available, and with those weight class of bullets I get 95-98% of the muzzle energy of a .308 and quickly overtake .308 after only 200yds and hold more energy at every range than 6.5 Creedmoor, while also maintaining drop and drift ever so slightly better than the Creedmoor (it's splitting hairs, but it's literally giving every benefit except for slightly lower frontal surface area of the .308 and also beating the .308 in the exact same ways a 6.5 does, with additional benefits.
The .308 can launch heavier projectiles, but only at the cost of significantly lower velocity (to the point that not even the higher BC can salvage them at longer range) and with comparable BC bullets the Creedmoor is ever so slightly faster, but the 7mm is slightly higher BC which allows it tocatch up very quickly.
I think if given the proper ammunition treatment the 7mm-08 is the best short action .308 family cartridge that exists, the problem is the VAST majority of loaded ammo is too light because people want as high velocity as possible. Coming from antiquated reasoning telling them that speed flattens trajectory (which it does, to a point, but we have technology now that allows us to correct for slightly more drop much more accurately while achieving much better performance through efficiency rather than raw brute force.
@Kross8761 I agree. Love my 7mm-08
Surprise not to see 280 Ackley Improved. Nosler brought it to Saami in 07” and it got approved. Great 7mm option less recoil then the 30-06, same performance as 7rem mag and a wider variety of bullets then the 270win. But I guess from a factory stand point ammo choice may not be available for some but at lest where I’m at there’s 10 different factory loads available to me. But if you a reloader then it’s even better.
Id have to agree that the 280 AI is probably the best balanced 7mm
It's not a Hornady cartridge... that's why
@@ReloadingWeatherby sadly correct
The original 280 Rem is a tragically overlooked cartridge.
@@timothythompson6549 agree 280 rem is so overlooked and it sucks Remington failed to market it properly. There’s still tons of factory loads I’ve seen on the shelves and online lately. I still have a ton of 280 brass and un-open boxes of 280 rem that I have setting over the years.
I don't think I'll replace my 308 with anything. But I would replace the 6.5cm with the 260Rem.
I recon the 30/06 will still by the caliber of choice for many new hunters, long after this TH-cam channel is gone.
7mm-08 has better ballistics then 6.5 creed
Absolutely ! 6.5 CM brought nothing to the table technically that 260 Rem can't do ...
Old or new, get what works best for you. New and improved isn't always better. Ill take Old and reliable any day.
None of the modern stuff is any good when a lot of the shooters using them cant maintain 1 moa at the distance those cartridges become more effective than the conventional counterparts
Nope. The performance advantages Pieter talks about are marginal and insignificant unless one is competing on the paper-punching circuit. For competition, yes, it pays to be cutting edge, because millimeters and even fractions thereof can make the difference between money and a wasted trip. For hunters and infantrymen, all those minor efficiencies won't make a darn bit of difference in bagging the animal or surviving combat. What hunter has ever thought, "I could do this shot with a 6.5mm Creedmoor, but a 6.5mm Swedish? Too risky." Ridiculous.
💯
And thats only if you buy off the shelf . I get close to 6.5 prc speeds when hand loading my 6.5x55 . The factory rounds are way under powered because of the amount of ww2 and older rifles that are still around . But with a modern 6.5 sweed you can load up much better rounds .
@@davidheath2427 which bullets and which/how much powder? Just curious. I'm not leaning on mine too hard - abut 2400 fps with 160 gr Woodleigh PPSN on top of H4350. The way I look at it is I'd have to get over 2600 fps with that load to really move the needle on both ballistic arc and energy, and for me, the juice just ain't worth the squeeze. I have a tack-driving deer/hog slayer good for about 250 yards as it is. If I need to reach farther than that, I'll go out with my 280 AI anyway.
Also, the only rifle for which higher pressure loads is really an issue is the Norwegian Krag-Jorgensens. The Swedish small ring M96 is about as strong as any modern rifle.
@smokedbrisket3033 I'm using 153 grain Berger hunters and ar2206. Not sure what the American or hodges equivalent is of that powder . They are going at about 2740 . No sign of cartridge stresses. But all firearms are different. I'm using a modern rifle not an old military. Tika .
@@davidheath2427 - AR2206 is the same powder as Hodgdon Varget. Seems like kind of a fast powder for a 6.5 Swede. Anyway, I also have a T3X - a lefty. AFAIK, that's the only LH 6.5x55 made. Maybe JP Sauer makes one in LH, but they'd be the only other one.
I'm surprised you aren't using Woodleighs, too. Didn't realize you're in Oz. I correspond with the owner every few months, super nice guy. They're not quite back to full production after their fire in...2021 or 2022? Can't remember now.
I'm a bit older but new to shooting and hunting, so had no pre-existing bias, or opinions, and no qualms about adopting newer technology. When looking for my first deer rifle, I watched dozens of videos, looked at what most available in my area, best price point, and another half dozen factors. I even have friends that shoot just about everything, and I did take their opinions into consideration. Ultimately, I settled on the .270 Winchester.
Couldn't be happier with that choice.
and when STHF; the old school rounds will be keeping the peace because you wont find your boutique rounds anywhere.
The best rifle on semi automatic mechanism are the 300 Win Mag... And No 300 PCR...
Between 375 cheytac and 408 cheytac the 408 wouldn't be the king ?
Only thing I disagree with is taking the 6.5CM and leaving out the 308W. Everyone needs a 308W, even if that means you have to buy both cartridges. 😁
3006 has been getting the job done since 1906. I have hand loaded for it for years. Running the modern powders and new bullet designs make it a fantastic round. To many new rounds have come and gone, because of cost and only slightly better performance. But if you want to KEEP UP WITH THE GUN SHOP WATER COOLER GOSSIP, go ahead. I'll keep to my old firearms.
That’s all these guys do is get a hard on over these new rounds when people do real test head to head there’s no much difference they just like expensive shit look at his rifles behind him and his place he likes new and expensive new junk
Both the 6.5x55 or a 260rem will out perform a 6.5CM.
The 260 Remington is an awesome cartridge. It is easy to tune and can win matches!
I'll continue to buy what I want, and what works in my equipment. Thanks.
I agree and disagree. Newer bullets have come a long way in terms of terminal ballistics. However, very few cartridges have taken as much or more large game in North America than 30-06 (most of those being classics as well).
The "classics" are the classics for a reason Pete.
I am sorry, this video is a Hornady promotion video. The 6.5x55 se in a European action from 1960 and up will do everything and more than 6.5 CR. Thank you for not trashing the .338 wm. Case and cartridge design decades ahead of its time.
True about the swede, but good luck finding guns and ammo, at least in the US. I’ll take the 6.5 creedmoor any day and all day long and twice on Sunday. Other than just being different, (which is a fine reason), there’s no reason here to buy a Swede.
Yes agreed with the ammo!!! Handloading for realized potential or very expensive European imprt ammo.
@@phild9813 You don't need a man bun to shoot a 6.5 swede.
Well you don't need a long action rifle to shoot 6.5 Swede.
I have rifles chambered in both and my Swede is nice but with factory ammo it really doesn't compare.
Any way, I have built medium/long action rifles, they are 284 Winchester and 338 RUM.
6.5 Swede wasn't even a consideration. 284 is just more of everything, more bullet, more ballistic coefficient, probably more FPS, Lapua brass, lots of 1,000 yard benchrest championships, etc.
338 RUM was just an exercise in how much bullet I could fit in a CIP length long action and a beginner ELR rifle that didn't need an extra large action for 338 Lapua or bigger.
With a short action I like 6.5 Creedmoor. If I was going for 6mm it would be 6 GT. The 6 GT is an evolution of 6 BR just stretched out to feed better from standard AICS short action magazines.
If I had the money for a top of the line ELR rig, I would probably choose it by which bullet I want to shoot, then figure out who makes the best chamber for that bullet, who makes the best barrel rifling for that bullet, then choose a chambering that has good lathe turned brass available that will put it in the velocity it needs. I might even get a super heavy test barrel to play around with barrel length and tuners to find nodes so I could have a better guess at what will work for my "competition" barrel.
You have no idea what you're talking about good Lord get off the internet 🥱
You notice her never mentioned the 7mm-08. Nothing out there that can replace it!
7mm08 is my favourite, but I think when he says 7mm in general is the goldilocks of calibres you can take that as a win. It’s just that 7prc is the newest. I think if you have any 7mm your on the board.
@razz_nz4143 I mean the PRC is a replacement for 7Mag, 280 AI, maybe arguablybthe .270 ince there's barely a difference in bore diameter. 7mm08 is meant to get the job done with less powder, and if anyone is going to try and replace it would likely be AR-15 length, maybe something similar to a WSSM.
Good point regards powder. Never thought about how much you save with the 7mm08 and it still keeps up with some of the big cases.
i turned the volume down so my model 94 32 W.S., and Model 100 308 couldn’t hear. The 22-250 overheard and screamed from the other room,” Prove it!”. Good video, but that Hornady shadow is pretty huge in this one.
Give some love to the 7-08, better ballistics than the 308, not a barrel burner, and significantly more hitting power than the creedmoor. IMO the Creedmoor is more of a target shooting round meant for long range efficiency (paper puncher) but could still be used on lighter game.
There's nothing the Creed can do that the 270 and the 7mm08 can't do better.
Do not put the 30-06 down , you can do more with that round then one thinks . As a handloader you can have it shoot like a 22lr to full with a 220 gr. Also do not put the 22-250. 308 have more uses then any other besides for what I stated the ammo is not going to be hard to find and get.
Not much a man can't fix with $700 and a 30-06.
I’m all for people being free to speak their opinions. I’m not one of these ultra sensitive folks who gets triggered by someone disagreeing. Personally I love the old cartridges, but it is interesting to hear things like this.
Yeah but after a while it gets it gets tiring it's like listening to Democrats and how good the economy is doing you just get tired of it
Its so funny watching a guy from South Africa wearing a sweater that has my childhood area code on it.
Somewhere in Ohio?
@@ryanleech789 yes. Northwest Ohio. I think the company Area 419 is in a small town called Delta. Not far from where I grew up.
419 for life.
Toledo Rockets
As far as I’ve found in person and online, 45acp, 30-30, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, 22lr and 12 gauge shells are the main cartridges that are worth the price, and most are under 20$ for a box of 20, less than 30$ for a pack of 50, and under 100$ for a tub of 1,400. Comparing rifle/shotgun, pistol, and 22lr respectively.
Oh thank goodness, my beloved .270 Winchester wasn't on the list! 🤣
That's because he would have had to say the 6.8 western and hornady aren't paying him to say that
@@darren5956 Don't worry about it. It's one of the best kept secrets. And I know it's one flat shooter
it should be, and I literally came to comments to tell him he screwed up not mentioning 270 Win as it's the most effected by what he's talking about. 1-10 twist barrels in .270 is a tragedy. Optimal bullet design would be around the 156gr weight and nobody makes a barrel that would stabilize that in 270 Win. 6.8 Western is going to fail because of lack of available ammo and very few mid range cost rifles, but it should explode off the shelves based on the ballistics.
Yeah, I was waiting for it too.
He probably hates it but forgot it existed.
@darren5956 did you see your comment and my reply made it into his latest video haha
I'll say it a 1000 times over..... No matter what new cartridge comes on the scene..... 30-06 is the benchmark to which everything is measured..... Sure the old '06 doesn't do everything the best, but it does "just enough" the best, and that's what the average shooter wants from a factory rifle with factory ammunition.
I've never heard a dead buck's spirit say "Jeez pal, I'm telling you that new High BC bullet really did a number on me" or "That faster twist rate sure killed me dead in a hurry"..... Nope..... All he would say is "The last thing I heard was bang, and now I'm here"
With modern components in modern rifles, the old '06 can compare just as good as it's counterparts. You'll still hit your target same spot as with some new Air Jordan endorsed PRC model. Oh..... shhhh.... Spoiler alert.... PRC = People's Republic of China = COMMIE!!..... 🤫🤫🤫🤣🤣🤣
PRC = precision rifle cartridge
@@KristinaBaker-ql5hi respectfully, that was sarcasm, ma'am. I am very much aware what PRC stands for, but thanks for pointing that out👍
🚨🚨 Trigger Alert! 🚨🚨 🤣
That aside, I don't need anything new...although the 'new' line Nosler cartridges are really nice, IMO...but yes, older cartridges still work fine.
I'm not a Creedmoor fanboy...I....just ....can't...sorry. No.
😅
Still my go to for hunting anything smaller than elk for food, but I step up to 338win mag elk and tougher.
Why I choose 300 win mag over 300 PRC. Ammo availability, Large amount of different factory ammo of each use case, Price of ammunition, 300 win mag performs everything ill ever need. Sometimes the latest and greatest isn't exactly what's needed.
75% the price for 97% of preformance. Win mag all day long
I have 35 year old Remington model 700 30.06 that I have used for 35 years, I have upgraded it to Magpul 700 long action with detachable magazine, last year and I replaced trigger with Trigger X field trigger, this year I removed standard barrel, and replaced with 26” heavy fluted barrel with M18 muzzle break barrel has 11.25 twist rate, I really like now that I can now shoot a shot every 2 minutes without barrel ever going above 73 F. I currently use Hornady 165 gr BTSP interlock and H4350 powder with large rifle primer. I now get much better grouping with. Heavy barrel. With Magpul stock I can easily handle recoil,
Why don’t folks talk about 6.5 284 Norma. Mine will take the nuts off a gnat at 1000.
Because they think the 6.5 PRC is all that has ever been
We build them all the time - broke, set, held, more records than all the new junk combined.
I agree in nearly every aspect of this video... but we have to talk about availability. It is quite impossible for me to aquire most of these new calibers as factory ammo. I'm not reloading myself, so i'm stuck with stuff from the shelf. Gun stores are not always the fastest updating their inventory up to new standards, so i have to depend mostly on "old" and common calibers.
So even as a hand loader why would I want to set aside loads/rifles I have spent hours upon hours developing that have killed game for years reliably to start all over with new reloading components that are hard to find and start that process all over again because somebody came out with a new whiz-bang cartridge. Im sure that many of these new cartridges do some things better than my old ones but dead is dead and I’m not starting over when I have something that works just fine.
Piet, " the 30-06 sucks" | " the 308 sucks"
Henry, "bru you talking about me?"
Piet, "the 6.5x55 is a fossilised dinosaur that nobody should use."
Henry, "Friendship ended."
🤣😂🤣😂
Let's just say for fun that I get to hunting camp and realize I forgot my ammo and the only store for 30 miles is a little general store. Which do you think they're more likely to have .300 prc or .30/06 springfield?
I have an old Browning 30-06 that might not be a match rifle, but since I rarely have to shoot farther than 200 yards, stuffed with my handloads it has never failed to put game in the freezer. Sure there are "new modern" cartridges that exceed the '06's performance, but for an older person that already has an old rifle in a older caliber, it's enough for me. I also shoot a 223 AI, a 22-250 AI, a 22-284, 6-284, and a few other wildcats. But I find myself reaching tor the old trusty '06 for most of my hunting.
😍😍
Nice 16 minute Hornady add.
Here is the hint… they are doing it right…
Heres a hint i didnt ask you @@ewetho
This changes if you reload ammunition.
.308 can use almost any rifle powder on the market, the Creedmoor cartridge family requires much slower burning propellants, which can be hard to find.
Same for the 303 Brit especially for cast bullet loads.
The 30-06 is a great 30 caliber cartridge for 165/180 gr bullets without going magnum or over bore. I cut my teeth shooting military 30-06 1903 SPFD and 8mm Mauser 98 military rifles with steel but plates. I might have been 11 or 12, and yes they did recoil some but not bad enough to turn me off. I have shot competition and hunted with 6.5C & 270WIN. Also hunted with 7-08, 280REM, 270WIN and 30-06. Now days I hunt deer in the western US and use a 270. With a well built custom 270WIN. I get outstanding accuracy and velocity using factory Hornady 140 SST Superformance ammo. I will never take a shot past 500m and the 140SST in this ammo has a mv of better than 3100fps, enough umph to anchor deer. When hand loading my 30-06 in a MOD70 Classic Winchester I was able to get 180 grain bullets to a mv range of 28**fps without getting to max charge. To upgrade to the modern well thought out 6.5/7mm/300 PRC means a lot more powder burned and harder components to find and pricier factory ammo just to get speeds that are nice but not necessary. My dream cartridge would be a 7mm Mauser cartridge giver the "Creedoor" design elements. Elements like chamber designed specifically for 160gr bullets, sharper shoulder and less taper in the side wall, kinda a 280REM efficiently redesigned. BTW enjoy your videos and agree about the 22 & 6mm Creed's.
I'll just stick to what I've used back in the Army during my time. 556(223), 762x51(308), 50cal and 9. Thats it. Thanks for the video.
6.5cm is great but it just doesn’t hit like .308. Feel like it’s very bullet specific for its distance.
A number of the arguments don’t seem to apply to the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x55 Swedish comparison. The difference between case length and COL for the CM is 22mm. For the Swede it is 25mm. Both in 1:8 twist. Seems to me the Sweede can handle longer sleeker bullets. Also, it has a lower chamber pressure.
The old 6,5x55 does what the Creedmoor does.
if the 30-06 is so fricken obsolete why do so many manufactures keep making supplies for it, why is there so much load data available, why is everything compared to the 06 ? hmm! gotta wonder
While I don't shoot long range anymore, and being 49. I still hunt deer and the occasional elk with model 70 in 30-06 that my grandfather gave me when I was 14. I guess that I'm to old to change.
What you are doing is going hunting with your grandfather. IMO nothing better.
Most of development is very incremental in improvement in the past 100 ish years, if you already have the old cartridges there’s not much reason to get the new ones.
This one is definitely generational where new shooters will be going for new rounds as they are _technically_ better.
The most surprising not seen here was 280 ackley as the 60 something year old round is still very equivalent to the 7mm prc. There really isn’t much reason to get a prc over an ackley even today.
And there’s 7mm saum and rum which don’t really have newer counterparts but those i guess were still created after 2000.
whatever works is what you use.
@TaeussKramme I have hunted with my M1 Garand and on occasion with my AR-10 in 338 Federal. I mostly hunt with my Model 70, because it brings back memories of the time spent with my grandfather and father and lessons taught and learned. They taught me things that kids now days don't seem to have.
Just go out and buy whatever gun you can afford. Hes targeting "new shooters" to the market with guns that basically have no support like 22 creedmoor, or guns that get expensive fast such as 375 chyetac at 10-18$ a shot.
Pick up a 308, a 30-06, 270 or whatnot because theres an a$$ ton of guns for all these old calibers at relatively cheap prices, especially compared to some of the stuff hes recomending.
The 6.5 creedmoor has far more availability on the market than 6mm creedmoor. But 308, and other rounds have those beat when it comes to availability and gun platform choices.
Very good advertising for the big red machine, Hornady. Will agree these cartridges you highlighted are great for non handloaders and beginners.
7PRC is just a 7mm rem mag without the belt. It doesn’t offer anything more other than more expensive components.
For a reloader, 7mm PRC might be better if they don’t like belts. But its velocity isn’t meeting what was advertised.
7mm rem mag without a belt sounds like an amazing idea personally but I’ll treat it as a belt less 7RM and expect nothing more
I disagree about the 30-06. In a Remington 700 action with a SAAMI chamber, there is plenty of room to seat the bullet out longer. I've already done this. You are limited to 220 grain modern bullets, but that is plenty for hunting ranges inside 1000 yards. It is also the only long action SAAMI 30 cal cartridge with a .475 base. This allows getting one or two more cartridges in the magazine. Given all this, the 30-06 is still a contender with reloading in a magnum length action. Plus it will have better barrel life than a 300 PRC or larger cartridges.
Now, if all you wanted to do is shoot ELR, then the 300 PRC definitely gets the nod for the 30 caliber, but make sure to have a muzzle brake or a suppressor as it will have a lot more recoil than the 30-06. There really isn't a 30 caliber cartridges with a .475 base that mimics the 30-06 to be able to replace it. It's more powerful than the 308, but less than the 300 Winchester or 300 PRC. Kind of a sweet spot.
300 WSM smashes 30-06.......... while being a short action cartridge
Also a cartridge known for its accuracy, holding multiple records in shooting competition ( including the smallest 10 shot group at 1k)
Yes, you can seat it longer, but Piet said this video is for factor guns and factory ammo, not reloading. When reloading you can change a lot
@theprfesssor True, but it uses a .545 bolt face and not a .475 bolt face. There isn't any 30 caliber SAAMI cartridges with a .475 bolt face that can equal the 30-06. Also the 300 WSM is limted on over all length with it being in a short action.
@@rodgerthackeray7978
There is 1 cartridge that can rival 30-06 and has a 475 base, that would be 30 Thompson Center it is a SAAMI cartridge......granted though it is effectively a dead cartridge...... nearly as dead as the company that made it ( rip Thompson Center )
@theprfesssor Yes, that does mimic factory loads. With handloads, the 30-06 is better by 150-200 fps.
Didn’t know this was an Hornady informercial, say what you will about the .30-06, .300wm, or. 270, they’re still ringing steel at 1500+yds and costs 1/3-1/2 the price.
The 22, 6mm, 6.5mm were all standard size cartridges. Then you stepped up to magnum for 7mm and above. Furthermore, the moral of the video was "If Hornady designed it, shoot it."
If you need an intermediate recommendation, a 6.8 Western fits short action length with magnum bolt face (like 6.5 PRC). You get energies of heavy 30-06 with better ballistics. If it wasn't clear from the recommendations in the video, the classic long action case doesn't really fit the cartridge design trend because of its long aspect ratio. If you really need a standard bolt face long action cartridge, the closest one to the modern design sensibilities would be a 280 AI or 284 win, but i'm not sure if there are factory rifle offerings with the right twist (or even factory rifles whatsoever)
233 for small game, 308 for mid game and 9,3x62 for heavy game at mid range. 😊 nice oldies.
What's a 233?
@DouglasNorman-im6bm Sorry! Of course.223 Remington.
I will take the 308 over the 6.5 😊 you started out the video talking about barrel life Sri.
In saying that i would take the 7mm 08, would never buy a 6.5 cm.
You guys are doing it wrong. Buy em all. I've got the 308, 6.5 cm and the 6.5 PRC. I honestly don't know if I could just pick one because they are all great in their own right. The PRC is kinda difficult to find ammo for and very expensive compared to the others but a great performer. The creedmoor just smashes deer and is very pleasant to shoot. The 308 doesn't try to destroy itself, ammo price/availability is great and it's overall performance is sufficient for most people.
Piet doesn't give a £u*k about barrel life.
@@moonray1276 he can afford not to
I would for use on elk or similar size game at reasonable ranges. Having the 180 grain option is definitely worth it.
Re: recommending the purchase of a rifle chambered for a "vintage" cartridge, it depends on what you intend to do with it. If you want to target shoot and are within a relatively short drive of your loading bench, it's a different situation compared to a rifle that you might take with you on a multi-day hunting trek. It's a question of ammo availability; nearly any place that sells ammunition will inevitably have a box or two of many of the older cartridges... .308 Win, 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, etc..., but isn't as likely to have the latest and greatest gee-whiz ballistic flavor of the month.
Ideally, you'd never forget your ammo at home, or never drop it in a puddle/river, or never lose it... but stuff happens; and as we see with electric cars, when things don't go according to plan and you are outside of your own "area", there's something to be said for common availability of that which you need in order to keep going.
Biggest risk in traveling to a hunt is the airline losing the ammo. Definitely with you - I'm headed to Limpopo in a couple weeks, bringing my 9.3x62 and my 6.5x55. If the carrier loses my ammo, every gun store in Jo'burg will have ammo for both of those rifles.
Fun Fact CIP Old German 7mm have a 1:8.6 Twist Rate since they where introduced over 100 Years ago so a 7x57 and 7x64 can Stabilice up to 170-180gn 😉 same goes for the old 6.5x55SE 6.5x57 ... also 1:8.6 140gn are no Problem 8mm Mauser is no Problem to get 220gn to fly and you can also seat the Bullets way out till you get to the Lands so some old Calibers where way ahead of Time when it comes to Twistrate and how much the Bullets sticks into the Case, the slow Twistrate thing Was mainly a American issue.
@@lenzadlberger I love the 7×57 and the 7×64 really doesn't get the attention it deserves
Exactly I’ve a Cz in 6,5 x 55 and it’s shootin lights out with 140 gr
@@danielrouw2593 as a Reloader with a modern Rifle 6.5x55SE beats 6.5 Creedmoor without Problems (SAAMI Specs for SE are a damn Joke CIP is ok 3900 bar but a modern Rifle with quality Brass even 4000-4100 Bar is no Problem at all) i shoot my 140gn with Reload Swiss RS60 at 856m/s out of a 22" Barrel 130gn at 902m/s Brass is fine no Pressure Signs Accuracy is great and yes i am a Hunter
@@lenzadlberger the usual yak reason given for the 6.5 swede being loaded lower is because of the older crag and Norwegian rifles chambered in 6.5 swede might not take the higher pressures, however modern 6.5 swede rifles have no such issues with pressure
@@giggergigger1 i know the Norwegian Krag one Lug Bolts are the Main Problem For the Swede with Factory Ammo, i have a Mauser M12 Expert from 2019 For this Rifle more "modern" Pressures are no Problem at all,
Funny is that 6.5x55SE is the 4th cheapest Brass that Lapua Produce after 223 7.62x39 and 308 😂 and you allways find once fired Lapua Norma or RWS Brass online cheap as dirt in Germany
I enjoyed seeing what new stuff is available out there and try to keep an open mind, but cost and availability is always my first concern. As far as these “old” rounds go, they’ve been around forever for a reason.
No need to be so hard on the old dirty-06.
Not to rip on your list, but you have to consider availability. In the land of powder and lead, alot of these modern cartridges are few and far between.
I picked the 7mm08 over 6.5 creedmore. More versatile. Better for bigger game. Very similar recoil.
I've not fired a 6.5mm CM, but I've used a 308 and 7mm-08 (which I find similar) surely the 6.5 would be less?
@Verdigris. I've fired 7mm08 and 6.5 cm back to back, and yes, the cm has a bit less recoil in the real world. Not the kind of difference that I'd run and trade in my 7mm08 though.
@@Verdigris. Less what? Less cartridge?
All your new cartridges make animals deader right? All your cartridges are hyped up by manufacturers, when you reload your own and Chronograph your own (psi with in SAAMI!) none of these "modern replacements are any better than the old. Don't throw out your 300 Win Mag and waste money on a 300 PRC. You can only be sooooooooooooooo dead. Never got into the Creedmore myth.
I'm keeping my old school stuff because they are tried and true, but last but not least, cheaper and readily available
Video never suggested selling your old stuff, its clearly for new shooters as stated multiple times 😅
@IMPACTSHOOTING I have a bunch of young friends who are adamant. The new rounds are the best They didn't have grandpa's like I did
To be fair, most people have no justification for anything other than having a 22lr, 223, 308/6.5 creed, and 7 rem/(300 win) mag. 99% of hunters and shooters can’t out shoot the cartridge at the given range it’s possible to ethically hunt game.
Ruger 10/22, ar15, and a tikka bolt action 308/6.5 creed and 7 or 300 mag covers all grounds
Sounds like you have childhood trauma and just hate 30-06 buddy
Yep, just another BC fanboi, regardless of it mattering.
@terryk9969 it's unamerican
@@ArmedAndIndigenous Yep. Was just up in Salmon ID hunting. The Ace Hardware there sold ammo - 30-30, 30-06, 308win, 270, 7mm. Notice whats missing at your average place?
@@terryk9969 What no 30-30 in the corner for the manager's hunt hat evening?
all the new cartridges are great ballistically but the cost per round for factory ammo is typically higher.
"is typically MUCH higher"
Target shooting and Hunting is a total different science, all talk was accuracy, but none on energy.
270 and 6.8 western. 7mm-08. 281AI
The Creedmoor line is the biggest fraud thrust on the American shooter in my lifetime. All of the line, is not better than what they are trying to replace. I could make this claim a thousand pages, but it would suffice to say the 6.5x284 is superior in every way. The 243 win is also superior and the 22-250 still remains the "Varminter" of choice. You can change the twist on the older cartridges if needed for the heavier bullets which are now the fad.
Wholeheartedly agree. And 6.5x55 does all that 6.5 CM does, does it better, is easier to handload and much easier on the barrel.
.243 Win. is probably one of the best 6mm ever.
6.5 CM is one of the best... marketing operations ever.
I don't have any experience with 6.5 Creedmoor. Are whitetail and elk more deader when hit with Creedmoor than they are from my 6.5x55 and 140 grains?
Nice work. Great review of more modern cartridges. Shorter, straighter cartridges with faster twist rates are generally more effecient. The .22 Creedmoor is a 22-250 with straight walls and faster twist rate (so heavier bullets, slower velocity and potentially BETTER barrel life).
6mm Creedmoor, 243 with straighter walls, faster twist rate.
6.5 Creedmoor... 260 Remington done properly. Better velocity and less powder than the 6.5x55. I've got 2x 6.5CR and a 6.5x55. I still use the Swede, but it needs more powder and a long action. It's not great compared to the 6.5CR.
300 PRC looks like a 300 Win Mag without the belt, straighter walls...
7PRC, compare it to so many cartridges at long range. The 7PRC is close in terms of drop to 300 Norma, 7mm Rem Mag (but more space for longer BC projectiles).
I think you got it all right!!! Even the old 250 Savage, blow it out, faster twist and longer neck and you get... 25 Creedmoor, which seems to be picking up in interest in PRS.
I am gonna buy a 6,5x55 SE now
🤣🤣🤣
@IMPACTSHOOTING the sweed comes with a 8 or 8.5 twist rate and loads up nicely to just under 6.5 PRC speeds . Maybe not quite the neck angle as the prc . But leaves the needs more for dead .
I mean it is extremly good, i have a old swedish mauser and it it extremly accurate, i love it.
The .300PRC has better barrel life than a .30-06?
I love my m96
Great video and good information. I am mostly a hunter/target shooter, not a long-range competitor and have been reloading since 1970. I stick to standard calibers in my rifles with loads that work for me and my shooting/hunting requirements. Your video is very informative with the new technology in ballistics and an 'eye-opener' on the efficiency of the new breed of rifle calibers. Some that 'pooh-hoo' the 'new' calibers forget that several of their 'traditional' calibers were, at one time, 'wildcat' cartridges themselves. The .22/250, .243 Win, .270 Win, 7mm Rem. Mag, .300 Win Mag, etc. were all 'wildcats' when they were developed. Technology marches on! Thanks for the information.
6.5 PRC:
General Barrel Life: 1,500 to 2,000 rounds
7mm PRC:
General Barrel Life: 1,500 to 2,000 rounds
.300 PRC
General Barrel Life: 1,000 to 1,500 rounds
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The expected barrel life of the 7 PRC is near identical to the 7 Rem Mag (PRC has slightly lower poeder capacity, but slightly higher max pressure), the .300 PRC is only alightly lower expected barrel life over the .300 Win Mag.
Ultimately, bore diameter, powder charge, powder burn temperature and the peak pressure are what determines barrel life. For many of these cartridges, their old school counterparts should have very similar expected barrel life.
@@marcmoore4115No they don't; it is closer to 5k rounds.
@@BLKSMShooting if you take the 7 Rem Mag and 7 PRC, run both with the same bullet and powder, at the same velocity, the barrel life will be near identical. That's not an opinion, just how the science works. If you really want me to, I'll run all the cartridges through GRT and the barrel life estimator I have.
Also, to rem mag or win mag having 5k barrel life... maybe if you shoot it extremely slowly and barely ever put proper heat into it. If you shoot a PRC the same way - then it will also have an extremely long barrel life.
Surely prices and availability for ammunition should be a consideration, especially for new shooters coming into the sport. Performance aside, the price and availability for the PRC and Creedmore ranges will take a long time to rival the other cartridges mentioned, and that is assuming they will indeed be the standard of the future, which is a big 'if'.