@@565goodmoney - because I know you’re just a little kid living with his parents and have not developed your frontal lobe yet, here’s the link th-cam.com/users/shortsoLiASN4Tao4?feature=share You’re welcome - 🤪🤣
I remember Gilbert constantly telling a story about playing with Jordan on the wizards. Fact is he never played on Jordan’s team. That should tell you enough.
There is NO WAY a player with a losing record in the Finals can be considered the greatest of all time, no matter how many points he scores. And it’s impossible for someone to claim that when the player only brings home a bronze in the Olympics. If MJ was 2-4 in the Finals I would not call him the GOAT. BUT HE ISN’T, he is 6-0 and 11 - 0 in all championship games he played in, which includes college, FIBA, the Olympics and of course the Finals. Stats aside, it’s very simple. The NBA is just entertainment and there was no player more entertaining in the history of the NBA than MJ. Period. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves.
Yes he can absolutely, because your finals record isn’t an individual accomplishment, it’s a team accomplishment. While i don’t think any one player can be the greatest of all time, because the game has been around for 76 years, and had so many rule changes, however i do think he earned the right to be in the debate.
LeBron is the Worst Finals Performer of All Time (no joke) *take all a players Finals games combined and add them up. ideally you want as much Games WON and as few Games LOST as possible. this is Finals games winning % and the higher the better TOTAL FINALS GAMES WON/LOSS CAREER *JORDAN : 24-11* in all of Jordans Finals games put together. this is the _HIGHEST_ Finals winning % in history, higher than Bill Russell who ranks 5th all time *KOBE : 22-15* in all of Kobes Finals games put together. this is not bad, but not great either. its respectable *DUNCAN : 23-11* guess who has the _SECOND HIGHEST_ winning % of all time? clear proof that Duncan has been criminally under rated his entire career *LEBRON : 20-33*
@@youboob6297 Jordan is a worse playoff player 6-9 record chasing rings. Couldn’t even make the finals 7 times and that’s your GOAT losing record chasing rings 😂😂🤣
EEEEEESSSSSSPPPPPPECIALLY with all the new rules to protect players. Jordan was literally getting bullied and tossed around the court back in his day. And just shrugged it off and got better and beat them.
What I find interesting about the Jordan vs Lebron GOAT debate is I keep hearing the Lebron camp saying "well if this isn't enough, what else does Lebron have to do?". In my mind, that's exactly the wrong mindset and why people are so stat focused. To me, Jordan is the GOAT not just because of his stats but because of his image, his work ethic, what he represented for the NBA, and how he inspires future generations. It also why I would put even Kobe above Lebron in a GOAT debate. Lebron is who he is. He's a great player and one of the best to ever lace up. But he is who he is as an athlete and role model. Jordan takes it personal and and will work even harder destroy the opposition, Lebron complains and comes up with excuses. Kobe will win with bones spurs, pops back dislocated fingers without even pausing the game, and sink free throws with a blown achilles, Lebron puts on a cast for a post-game to show how he's not 100% after a loss. There's nothing Lebron can really do to change who he is and the image and legacy he's already established. So there's nothing Lebron can do to become the GOAT.
@@ShawnE31415 knowing how to play, and knowledge of the game are different things. This is the same guy that basically said Gianni’s is not a good player because he doesn’t have a jump shot our crazy dribbling
It's obvious that being an NBA player doesn't indicated you know basketball. Consider Shaq. Probably one of the best centers in NBA history but he's an absolute idiot. Profressional athletes are not the smartest people in our society.
People also forget that with the advancements in sports science and just medical science in general has given players nowadays a huge advantage in terms of being able to play at a high level for longer. We're seeing it in all sports across the globe with more elite athletes with unprecedented longevity. MJ being elite at 35 when he won his last chip in the 90s is simply insane.
Gilbert asks us what does winning "have to do with the best player"? Nothing I guess, Gilbert. You're right. Why did we ever think winning was the goal in competition?
These are the type of illogical arguments you have to come up with to support LeBron.....how many rings would the bulls have without m.j.???? All the bulls rings came with m.j.
Jordan’s single playoffs game scoring record has stood for 36 years, almost as long as Kareem’s record. Oh, and he has 5 of the other top 15 single playoff game performances.
Son a gun I literally was about to make this comment but u beat me I literally just did the math lol but word the all time playoff scorer ain’t even beat 63pts
-- Lebron is a great scorer. But greatest scorer? MJ Lebron has more points than MJ bc he has 20 seasons. MJ had 15 seasons and...skipped 1.5 years of PRIME MJ (age 30).
Using Arenas' argument: So why wasn't Kareem being considered the ultimate GOAT, while having the career points record for 40 years before Lebron broke it? So does Lebron having the record for most career turnovers negate many of his accomplishments, since Arenas is talking about career records?
The biggest problem with Bron's GOAT argument is you have to down play the most important thing...winning. Herm Edwards said it best "You play to win the game!" Everyone will have stats if they play long enough, but the greats of the greats win more. Melo has more points than Hakeem and Duncan, but you will find no one that will say Melo was better than Duncan or Hakeem. Hell winning one chip is the only reason Doc Rivers was ranked a top 15 coach all-time. Winning is and was everything until Bron came along and his fans had to change the narrative.
I believe the quote I heard recently went something like this..... "When you're good, you tell everybody. When you're great, they tell you." I rest my case.
Melo wasn't better than either 😂 Again no defense. Hakeem could score as good as him and was light years better defender. Hakeem has 2 quadruple doubles in his career only player to do that. Melo isn't even in the NBA, not that he doesn't want to be, he does but no one wants to watch a dude score 12 points off the bench but turn around and give up 25 to whoever he's guarding
You know they were making the same kind of arguments about Jordan. Before Jordan, it was all about sharing the ball and the big man down low and someone as selfish as Jordan could never be the goat. "A Real good player passes the ball". I remember a quote for some no-name Streetballer from back in the day circa 1993 "I'm beginning to hate Jordan he is a selfish Ball-hog" The bottom line is you can make all kinds of arguments as to why Lebron doesn't deserve to be the Goat but I've heard it all before about: 1. Jordan 2. Magic 3. Kobe 4. Kareem The real reason that you cannot crown Lebron the Goat is because of your own immaturity and short-sightedness, but mostly your own immaturity. Immature men who haven't accomplished anything in Life hate success Me? I give Credit where credit is due but then again...... I've been there and have done that..... Or maybe I am not an Immature Child anymore.... We will be having this same conversation about Steph Curry later on. I can see it now the stupid arguments against Steph Curry being the Goat circa 2040.... " A good player dominates in the paint" "A good player dunks to send a statement" "Steph Curry is not the goat because he is too selfish to be a point guard" or... "HE HAD A SUPERTEAM!" (that is the most laughably hysterical argument I have ever heard yet...) History just repeats itself over and over again and people are just too shortsighted despite the 200-core 500 gigabyte ram super computer they have. People are stupid!
90s was still BEST ERA. Fact, not opinion. Of the list of top 75 players ever, 27 played at least a part of their prime in the 90s. More than any other decade. And yet... During that time Jordan 3-peated, left to play another professional sport for 2 years, came back and 3-peated again.
You know why that record lasted for 40 years? Because MJ was not really motivated to break it, he could've easily broken that record if he wanted to. It will only take him like 2-3 more season to break it. That would mean he wouldn't retire the 2nd time and his body may not be as bad as those times he was in washington. All MJ cares about is winning games and collecting rings thats why he retired coz unlike LBJ, MJ built the chicago team, waited for it to become better and won championships with that team.
That’s what I’m saying. It’s annoying watching these guys pretend like LeBron accomplished something that Jordan couldn’t do. LeBron would still be like 4,000 points away from first place if Jordan played 5 more seasons.
Let's be real, what is Gilbert Arenas known for besides his nickname "Agent 0" and for him pulling a gun out on a teammate in the locker room over a card game bet? And Arenas asked "What does the chip have to do with it?" It has a lot to do with it because you play the game to win and to win the ultimate prize, which Arenas seems to have forgotten. But i guess it's easy to forget when he never won one.
You don't need to disrespect the older player's era to prop up today's era it's so lame! From the second someone says F winning or winning doesn't matter, they should not be taken seriously!
MJ said it best, it’s not fair to compare players from different eras. Yet here are the LeDouche 🍆 riders keep trying to prop him up as the GOAT. Puh-leeze. MJ never claimed to be the GOAT, and he’s always given props to the people who came before him. LeDouche proclaiming he’s the GOAT is top-notch douchebaggery.
Lebron is not even in the conversation for Goat. I seen him quit against the Celtics walking off the floor with minutes left. I seen him get outplayed by Jason Terry in a championship series when he was in his time. Plus he travels all the time 😂😂.
@@cressro That is smart! Prolonged his Career! If you are a lock to be #1 seed in the playoffs why play the last 10 games? Football does that all the time, why not basketball!
I only feel bad for the impressionable youth who don’t know better and actually listen to Gilbert, who we can see didn’t prioritize winning, especially when it counts to downplay the legacy of one of the greatest winners in all major sports. Between him bc and JJ Reddick, they’re both building tall fortresses with all these bricks they’re offering up
@@catalyst4518 Not starting this ridiculous debate. That Bulls team SWEPT a 60 win Magic team with prime Shaq and Penny and endless shooters that would have dusted that Warriors team. And that Bulls team beat a 64 win Sonics team in the Finals. Please just stop.
@@donaldsnead215 Because MJ had a SUPER TEAM! No he didn't LOL! It was just MJ one on five. He did it all by himself. Ok you win lets end this ridiculous debate now.
I would argue that the only thing players are consistently better at today is shooting the ball. 80s and 90s ballers were better at everything else, especially physical defense, which doesn't exist in today's league. Best defender used to mean something, but now nobody cares who the dpoy is.
@Giovanni Williams lebron started at 18 on NBA. Not just those 2 season. Also the season from bulls to wizard. He didnt play. Plus 1985, he got injured.
@@giovanniwilliams9009 yeah coz MJ only played 15 seasons meanwhile Kareem played almost 20 years that's almost 5 years more and Kareem played about 500 more games and 17000 minutes than MJ, and MJ only played 13 proper seasons as he was injured in other 2 and still had a better average than Kareem. Kareem was ahead of MJ by 6k points so MJ would've had to average like 3k points a season that's 37 ppg and averaging that for 2 seasons would be impossible onl Wilt could average such crazy numbers
Just imagine if Jordan had gone straight from high school to the NBA and never interrupted his career to play baseball. We wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
@@aarontrainor9918 Bill Russell played when there were only 9 teams in the league and Boston had the monopoly on talent. The Celtics run was way overrated !
If you have two employees, one that made more widgets per week than the other. But he leaves for another job after 5 years. When the other employee ends up making more total widgets after working 8 years, he wasn't ever better at it. Just was around longer.
Correct we have always heavily favored per game stats over total stats so long as they had at least decent length of career....say at least 10-12 years
Agreed. The flaw of Gilbert's argument is at its core, ignorant. If we are choosing points scored as the measurement stick of greatness, then points scored in each season becomes part of defining greatness. In 11 full seasons with the Bulls, MJ lead the league in points scored 11 times - the only player to achieve this. In 20 seasons LeBron has achieved this 1. In 11 playoffs MJ scored the most points 8 times. In 15 playoffs LeBron scored the most points 6 times. LeBron has scored over 2000 points in a season 10 times his highest score 2481. (32nd in NBA history). In playoffs he has scored over 550 points 8 times, highest score 748. (2nd in NBA). In 11 seasons MJ scored over 2000 points 11 times, highest score 3041. (3rd highest in NBA history). In fact MJ scored over 2500 points 6 times. In the playoffs MJ was over 550 points 8 times highest score 759 (1st in NBA). And in game scores MJ's highest score is 69, with 31 games scoring over 50, - in 1072 games played. Lebron's highest is 61 with 4 games over 50 - in 1417 games played. If they want to use points scored as the new greatest measuring stick, no problem, however, Gilbert should review the numbers as LeBron gets swept it's not even close.
Does he not realize that he is basically saying that a guy like Ginobili was a better scorer than he was because Ginobili had more total points in his career? Ginobili averaged 13 and Arenas 20, but Ginobili scored 3000 more total points.
So is Elgin Baylor a better scorer than KD because he averages more points? Is Kobe not even a top 10 scorer of all time because he isn't top 10 in PPG? Be consistent with your own logic.
@@gggyy7104 Be consistent? I literally pointed to one instance where it would be a bad argument. Everything needs to be looked at in context. Not only did MJ average more points than LBJ, but he also won significantly more scoring titles as well. On top of that he played the latter stages of his career in an ultra slow paced league and still averaged around 30 PPG. Did you know MJ averaged the same percentage of his teams points in 2001 with the Wizards as LeBron is this year with the Lakers? As for Baylor and KD I would say that Baylor played at a time when stats were heavily inflated and he also just spent more time on the floor per game than KD. Their per 36 actually has KD ahead by a couple points. MJ is still comfortably ahead of LeBron in points per 36 as well. A more telling stat is probably points per 100 possession and MJ is comfortably ahead there as well.
@@cobra7282 I’m not saying Lebron’s the better scorer. I’m saying if PPG were the only thing that mattered, Baylor is top 3 scorer ever. Now you wanna apply context and look at per 100 and per 36 and all? Most Jordan fans don’t say anything about that when comparing two scorers, they simply go ‘but but PPG’
Karl Malone would have broken Kareem's record if he wanted to continue playing, he just didn't have the motivation anymore after his last try with the Lakers.
The talent is so much better today than in the 90s though. Just because the game in the 80s and 90s was more physical doesn’t mean defense was overall tougher.
He does but he has to back bron cuz what he cares about is himself and he knows he'll be talked about it he goes against common sense. The man acknowledged Jordan would average over 40 in this league and he thinks totals matter more? What do you think he would say if you told him jj reddick and hundreds of others are better scorers and players than arenas?
@@ShawnE31415 The talent is much better on offense, but that has a lot to do with increased spacing and players not being allowed to be physical on defense. An average athlete that is allowed to be physical is likely to play better defense than a great athlete that isn't allowed to be physical. Not that there weren't a lot of great athletes in the league back in the 80s and 90s either.
@@ShawnE31415 Defense was overall tougher. You play good defense on a star now the refs start blowing the whistle. You saw that last night with Dame. There were no one on one possessions where the Rockets were allowed to get a stop on Dame without a foul call. It was double him or he scores one way or another. There's a reason why Luka said the NBA is easier than Euroleague and why LeBron averages 30 at 38 years old. You're not allowed to play defense now.
I like how all of these guys actually played against transitional players that didn't dominate the supposedly "weak era" of the 90s, but did dominate in the 2000s and beginning of the 2010s, lol. Kobe being a prime example. Shaq and Tim Duncan, another. It's like they can't even fathom the irony of their own argument disproving itself. Especially LeBron. Here's a guy that wasn't the best player in the 2000s, but dominated in the 2010s and even the 2020s, and yet, today's players are supposedly so superior. 🤔🙄
Those players you mentioned weren’t in their peak in the 90s but babies around that time. Once Shaq became unstoppable the league changed the illegal defense rule because Shaq took advantage of it just like MJ did. Jordan ain’t go up against any zone defenses
@@omaidolor8929 False. Teams ran zone in the 80s-90s even though it was illegal. Shaq was elite the moment he stepped foot in the NBA and played 7 seasons in the 90s. Getting rid of illegal defense was to increase scoring and make more perimeter players Jordan like. Also it shouldn't matter if they were babies if the league was weak. Players from the 80s-90s played throughout the 00s-10s.
I disagree with you in saying that LJ didn't dominate in the 2000's he did, LJ didn't win for the same reason that AI.... because they didn't have a solid squad! Give LJ and AI the same squad that Kobe had and the same coach and his unselfish game and they've won easily 5.
@@sideshowbobsaget8876 Teams snuck in zone occasionally but end of the day subconsciously they knew they couldn’t so obviously it makes it hard to maintain that zone coverage. Compared to todays era teams can literally sit in a zone all game long, 2-3, 3-2, 1-3-1, etc. Back in the 90s and 80s dominant teams would literally move players far away from the basket so players like MJ would go one on one with weaker defenders with 0 help coverage. That’s easy for any superstar f the 2000s and 2010 era why? Because they are more skilled and would be able to get by a defender a whole lot easier. Players today are more athletic, faster, bigger, stronger I mean let’s be serious Mugsy Bogues and Soud Webb wouldn’t even be thought of in an NBA draft today.
@@omaidolor8929 False, teams ran zone all the time in the 80s-90s. Iso happens all the time in the 00s-10s and 20s. Players from the 80s-90s played throughout the 00s-10s. All you have to do is watch full games from the 80s-90s
@East Bee103 if 38% long distance is "best optimal shot".. then NBA HQ should've moved the line back 5 years ago. - Emphasize the mid range and post game fundamentals again.. like 1990s (best Era)
Even without the gun incident, one call tell that Gil's elevator doesn't go all the way to the top floor. Another fallacy he mentioned was that LeBron is primarily a passer. He's primarily a scorer. Not an elite scorer, but he scores at a high level. He's an above average passer, below average rebounder for his size (compared to Larry Bird, who averaged 10 rebounds while playing with Kevin McHale and Robert Parish during a more physical era). Meanwhile, Jordan's passing has become underrated over time, and it's not a stretch to place him as one of the best passers/rebounders at his position (he still has more total offensive rebounds than LeBron does)
Yes it was !! Today's NBA is a joke. Un watchable. Thats why ratings are at an all time low. The bubble championship had everyone home due to Covid-19 and only 4 million viewers tuned in to watch Lebum lol Jordan's last championship against Utah in 98 drew 88 million lol says it all
@@michaelbenbow4396 yeah and I often hear him brag about his scoring record for a single game in that series. Weird almost like he cares more about winning than stats
@@michaelbenbow4396 man was essentially playing on his own against a Celtics team that had 5 HOFers on its starting lineup…MJ still dropped the all time playoff points single game record in them that’s yet to be broken
@@michaelbenbow4396 of course it counts you can't rewrite history. Only difference is people aren't dating things like those losses should count since he was getting swept by the bird Celtics. Lbj gets swept and all you hear is he never stood a chance or is not fair
I started to stop watching after hearing the word flowers, then I realized Lebron was figuratively sitting on Gilbert's shoulders. Guess where Gilbert's head is?
I'd never heard anyone ever say that Kareem's scoring record would never be broken. I've heard it said of Wilt's 100 point game and Stockton's steals for example.
James turnover record will never be broken. He is so far ahead of any other current player that he’s setting an astronomical number that will never be touched.
Thanks for reminding me. Exactly what I thought!! It was almost a lock that Malone would break Kareem's record. Any decent scorer with extra longevity can do it.
Lebron has played with 7 great scorers on his teams. Wade, Bosh, Love, Irving, Davis, Westbrook, Anthony. In every case he took more shots than these players. Pass first? Look at Magic playing with Worth, Abdul Jabar, Wilkes and Mcadoo. The teams were potent offensively, while he took less shots then the guys jobs it was to score. That's pass first.
This is such an accurate video. Also Gilbert arenas is part of Lebron circle so they will do anything to move the goal post and lie and contradict themselves for Lebron
I loved watching agent 0 play. It really makes me sad that he has all these silly takes. Gilbert changed his whole tune when Vernon Maxwell was on his podcast 😂😂😂. Be consistent bruh all I can say
@Couldn't find a good name it's a fact that he'd lost after every accomplishment. The disrespect would be me lying on him. Rearrange yo priorities. Cause Gilbert is putting the carriage in front of the horse.
10:03 I don't even think he's 2nd of all time. Kareem, Bird, Kobe, those guys would have never lost with Dwane Wade and Chris Bosh. Remember Kobe getting chips with Pao Gasol as his sidekick? Could you even FATHOM Lebron winning with nothing more? See, Lebron is great, but he doesn't hold a candle next to the players who didn't need to forge their own teams with superstar buddies to win.
Well said! And MJ's WOW Factor? Jordan's tongue and personality get more women. It's just not sexy to pass in order to get the ball back and score an easier shot. It just isn't! Even though all these MJ fans tell their sons in High School varsity to pass. They are all hypocrites!
exactly. look at what you just said then y’all criticize for “ring chasing”. JJ literally played for 14 years in the league and Gil was the number 1 option on his team til he was injured. TH-cam is a shithole because of comments like this
According to Gilbert, record breaking is the main goal of all the players, not winning a chip. So NBA fans youre just wasting money buying tickets to see them live.
@@gggyy7104 you say that like Elgin Baylor wouldn’t be ranked higher if he had won a championship or two. Either way, he, KD, and Bron all average about the same amount. But my comment isn’t necessarily about who is or isn’t the best scorer, it’s about how we generally rank players. There’s a reason no one cares about the player that averages the most total points in the playoffs or regular season each year and why the leading scorer title is based on PPG. Not that cumulative stats don’t matter, just that they don’t generally matter as much as averages.
@@SmittyWerbenJagermannJensenI’m talking about specifically scoring. If PPG mattered as much as you say, Elgin would be considered at the least a top 5 scorer of all time. But the thing is Lebron fans don’t just say cumulative stats are the only thing that matters. They say both matter. Lebron is top 5 in PPG and top 1 in total points. It’s not like he averages 19 PPG. That’s whats so impressive.
@@gggyy7104 I said they both mattered, just per game averages generally matter more. But talking specifically scoring, Jordan is number 1 in PPG and number 4 in total points so what’s you’re scoring argument exactly? Because if being a top player in both categories is you’re criteria, he would still be the best scorer. Again, the scoring title each season does not go to the player with the most total point, it goes to the player with the highest PPG average. They’re not always the same player. Either way, no one really discusses cumulative stats when comparing players. Almost every comparison brings up per game stats.
@@gggyy7104 I didn’t say it wasn’t impressive either or that Lebron wasn’t a great scorer, I think he is. The total stats argument is only just now becoming a thing. No one considered Kareem the best scorer, he would rarely be brought up when talking top scorers. He was considered the prime example of longevity. 20 years of consistent production. That’s impressive on its own. Stockton has the most total assists, but if I asked you who the best passer of all time was you’d say Magic without hesitation.
It's pretty shallow thinking. Jordan is not number one in any of the categories because accumulating career points was never his goal. LeBron's whole mission has always been to accumulate career stats. If that was MJ's goal, he would never have retired in his prime. So we can't compare them that way.
And as for the 80's & 90's not being able to play in today's league...we'll see how many of the players today break the top 50 in overall league scoring. Jordan was just different...a step or 3 above the rest. We were blessed to watch him.
Lebron fans are really making themselves look foolish. All the facts can be right there in everyone's faces and they would still say Lebron is the best and that just makes no sense
I’ved seen LeBron’s whole career never seen MJ and through research and taking the times to watch Full games regular season and playoffs i can honestly say MJ is better. LeBron is awesome but he is not MJ i have him second all time. Till this day a full hall of fame career separates them as you mentioned 2 chips, 2 fmvps, 1 reg season mvp, 1 dpoy, 9 scoring titles, 3 steals titles and 4 all defensive first team selections thats crazy to me. Mr arenas says MJ doesn’t lead in any categories lol but MJ is the all time leader in ppg in the regular season and playoffs. Has the highest ppg average in a playoff series and finals series. MJ is tied for most all first defensive team selections at 9 with Kobe, Garnett and Gary payton should i keep going. LeBron fans have weak arguments its all about excuses and moving the goal post
Crazy thing is he was got scoring titles while getting defensive player of the year and 1st team defensive pretty much every year. LeBron never did that even once
To make a case for LeBron, it's mostly based on opinions,and tearing down Jordan's Era, because it's impossible to argue against Jordan himself.....to make an argument for Jordan, you can simply state the facts of his resume. You don't even have to mention, LeBron or his Era,nor tear down LeBron or his Era, although you could very easily point to multiple stains on LeBrons legacy if you wanted to,but you don't need too.
@@ricardolozano5356 got stopped by JJ Barea in the finals who wasn't even his size or weight meanwhile guys like Hakeem, David Robinson, Dikembe Motumbo, Rodman still couldn't stop MJ in their primes from dropping 50 on them while being much bigger and stronger
If he had broken that record in 14 and years I would call him the greatest. Jordan did a hell of a lot more than Lebron in less time. Jordan will be the first to tell you he came to win not to break a scoring record.
For me, it has always been simple. If I step on a court against a group of 4th graders on an 8-ft court, I can do everything James can do. I do not have the skill or moves like Jordan. Jordan came back better each year, adding a new wrinkle to his game. To be able to get a great, not good, look whenever he wanted. Was Karl Malone a better scorer than Jordan?? Arenas is bugging.
LeBron #1 ability is being allowed to pound the rock entire shot clocks. Burning the playbook for awkward multi-step back 3s, or firing late awkward passes to guys not really open (Korver)
I’m sure you have to be tired of proving these idiots like Gilbert and other LeBron fans wrong constantly. But it sure is entertaining when you do it!! Love your videos!
The narrative is so bad and misleading. Gilbert does know that MJ SACRIFICED personal stats to build a dynasty. Jordan’s accomplishments are far better than mere personal stats. Personal stats are the consolation prize of a loser
How many 3 peats does Braun have? How many scoring titles? How many MVP’s & Finals MVP’s does Braun have? Last but not least, how many 1st defensive teams and DPOY’s does Braun have? All of these Jordan rules hands down. Jordan may always be the GOAT. I’ve not seen nor heard anything to change my mind. There is no I in team so comparing players without the context of their supporting cast is not really fair. How many teams have 3 finals championships in a row? It’s a small list but the Bulls did it not once but twice.
One of the things jordan has that lebron doesn’t is (even if it sounds stupid) he made the people believe he could win anything and fly across the basketball court, lebron doesn’t have the same effect on people
He also built his own mansion. Won 6 rings by himself. Impregnanted himself with 6 kids. Built his own car. Went 72 and 10 going 1 on 5 for 82 games plus 18 playoff games. Scottie Pippen and Rodman 2 of the all-time best defenders in the history of the NBA and Paxon and Toni Kukoc and their "three headed monster" (the Bulls 3 Centers, Thats 18 fouls on Shaq! and with Rodman that's 24 fouls on Shaq! What the fuck! Or any other low post player of the era!) and Phil Jackson the All-time best Coach in the HIstory of the NBA who installed the Best offense ever the traingle, just sat on the bench and watched porno all day!
@@catalyst4518 Wait... You're telling me Jordan needed a team to win championships? I thought he could do it all alone, 1 vs 5 like every other player who won the finals. 🤷🏾♂️🤔 Geez I wonder who the *MVP* was in those games. Please do tell.
I'm convinced that Gilbert props LeBron up because he got beat by him so to make himself feel better he argues for lebron's goat status so his L isn't as bad to himself.
Remember, Kareem went to college and put up that record. LeBron got a huge advantage by going to the league straight out of high school. LeBron is definitely a great player, but he still hasn’t passed many great players of the past in terms of true greatness.
He can’t do anything because he already sealed his fate by being a quitter during his championships! Twice he quit on court no heart couldn’t take over and will the win like a Jordan simple!
Well Jordan has better per game avg stats. Jordan has better per season avg stats. Jordan has better advanced analytical stats. - LeBron has only longevity stats.. plus longevity of LA losing
@@KaineTremaine Jordan wins in per game stats, advanced metrics, accolades (mvps, scoring titles, dpoy, etc.), and winning (6 championships in 15 total years vs 4 in 20). Lebron really only has longevity.
@CFL Yea I remember when LeBron fans used to bring up stats. They'd say like "most 25 point w 9 assists and 8 rebound games" or something else stupid. - Now that the legitimate career stats are coming to light.. LeBron fanatics are running from advanced stats like roaches.. Spew a couple of longevity stats, then sprinting away
He also leads the regular season ppg statistics and has the most scoring titles. To be fair, if finals mvp's would've been awarded in the 60's Bill Russell could have more than MJ.
yeah, 10 scoring titles, 6 finals MVP’s, 9x 1st team-all defense, TWO 3-PEATS, lead the league in scoring 7 consecutive years & has the highest PPG all-time
Using this criteria makes Pete Rose the greatest baseball player of all time since he passed Tyler Cobb in hit. He holds the major league records for games (3,562), at bats (14,053), hits (4,256), and singles (3,215). On top of that, LeBron scored a lot of points from behind the 3 point line, it wasn't implemented until 10 years after Jabbar was drafted.
When we talk about GOAT, Lebron is not even top 10 on my list I don’t have to believe all the bs the media talk every day for years even when he keep losing and trying to always create teams to win chips so if winning is not important for the GOAT conversation why he is always complaining about teammates when he is losing that of course is 16 years of his career filing the taste of it
I would love to see how Arenas would fare on a debate show where his points can be refuted. A lot of his takes are ill-thought-out and emotionally based. U would think a former player would have a more nuanced perspective but part of me believes Arenas takes certain positions by design to create controversy.
Also if Kevon Loney, Steven Adams, and Mason Plumlee can play today...Bill Laimbeer could certainly play today. Laimbeer was a stretch 5 before we knew what it was. He shot 37% from 3 while getting 9 boards in 91. That is a perfect fit today. People focus on his thug behavior, but dude had skill.
I appreciate these breakdowns, I think we've all come to a point to where we realize that just because somebody played the game even if they played it at a high level does not mean that they know what the hell they're talkin about when it comes to the media circuit, for years you'd see players criticize the analysts because" they never played the game" , only for some of these former players to have some of the absolute most nonsensical shit takes in the media
It’s funny how nobody brings up the difference in Rules and regulations. Rules play a big part in all of this. With all of the changes MJ and LeBron played in 2 different sports. Just stop and think for a moment, how can you compare stats when your playing a different game? Keep in mind I’m not mentioning the advancements and perks that todays players have over Jordan’s time. What did Lebron ever do for the league? Jordan changed sports because of his greatness. If o was to compare someone to MJ it would be Steph Curry, You see everyone wanting to be like Curry. Steph changed the game. Think about it
Bro lebron is not a top 2 how an all time loser can be a top 2 or even a top 5?? The man has also all time bad records playing for long time also brings you bad records
This man ruined his own career with his infinite wisdom. The man acts like the rules weren't changed to make scoring easy. Lebron passing Kareem does speak to his longevity, but it also speaks to all the many avenues that allow players today have much longer careers.
Bro what you said about karem is the same thing about lebron why didn't people consider karem better than mj and now we just consider lebron better. Why the fuck would not people consider karem better than mj who has more mvps as much chips more finals appearance more all time points rebounds and assists than mj and we just do this to lebron this debate mj vs lebron is saying that karem is better than mj.
Because Karreems Personality is not Marketable! Michael Jordans "Business man" like personality is a lot sexier to the masses and we all know sex sells!
Karreems game wasn't sexy either, even though it was.......(hide me from the Jordan fans please because I am gonna say it!) BETTER! OH MY GOD I HAVE JUST SINNED AGAINST THE BASKETBALL GODS!
I don't know what's going on, why so many of todays or early 2000 era players are just talking crap about past players.. what the hell did these guys do them, what did MJ or Bird or Kareem say to these dudes to make them disrespect them.
“If I played for stats I would’ve never retired in 93….” - Michael Jordan
🧢 Jordan never said this
@@565goodmoney - because I know you’re just a little kid living with his parents and have not developed your frontal lobe yet, here’s the link
th-cam.com/users/shortsoLiASN4Tao4?feature=share
You’re welcome - 🤪🤣
I guess sometimes a dumbass does drop a clever turd
@@565goodmoney - you only have to look at yourself and Gilbert to have realized this…..muppets.
@@565goodmoney he did say this. In an interview before his last all star game
I remember Gilbert constantly telling a story about playing with Jordan on the wizards. Fact is he never played on Jordan’s team. That should tell you enough.
There is NO WAY a player with a losing record in the Finals can be considered the greatest of all time, no matter how many points he scores. And it’s impossible for someone to claim that when the player only brings home a bronze in the Olympics. If MJ was 2-4 in the Finals I would not call him the GOAT. BUT HE ISN’T, he is 6-0 and 11 - 0 in all championship games he played in, which includes college, FIBA, the Olympics and of course the Finals. Stats aside, it’s very simple. The NBA is just entertainment and there was no player more entertaining in the history of the NBA than MJ. Period. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves.
It’s not LeBron James carry the Cavaliers we was 22 and the only thing you got is 2011 because that’s the only time LeBron James in scores much
Yes he can absolutely, because your finals record isn’t an individual accomplishment, it’s a team accomplishment. While i don’t think any one player can be the greatest of all time, because the game has been around for 76 years, and had so many rule changes, however i do think he earned the right to be in the debate.
LeBron is the Worst Finals Performer of All Time (no joke)
*take all a players Finals games combined and add them up. ideally you want as much Games WON and as few Games LOST as possible. this is Finals games winning % and the higher the better
TOTAL FINALS GAMES WON/LOSS CAREER
*JORDAN : 24-11* in all of Jordans Finals games put together. this is the _HIGHEST_ Finals winning % in history, higher than Bill Russell who ranks 5th all time
*KOBE : 22-15* in all of Kobes Finals games put together. this is not bad, but not great either. its respectable
*DUNCAN : 23-11* guess who has the _SECOND HIGHEST_ winning % of all time? clear proof that Duncan has been criminally under rated his entire career
*LEBRON : 20-33*
No player who missed the finals 9 times can be a GOAT. Jordan is 6-9 on his way to a RING.
Y’all delusional 😂😂🤣
@@youboob6297
Jordan is a worse playoff player 6-9 record chasing rings. Couldn’t even make the finals 7 times and that’s your GOAT losing record chasing rings 😂😂🤣
If 90s Jordan played today he would have been unstoppable
EEEEEESSSSSSPPPPPPECIALLY with all the new rules to protect players. Jordan was literally getting bullied and tossed around the court back in his day. And just shrugged it off and got better and beat them.
Gilbert is on the silent lebron payroll list
he has no logic
It's blatantly obvious......either that,or I want to know what type of dr*gs he is on??
Yea LeBron is funding Hella propagandists.
KD already said "Perk sold out"
You nailed it 👍
Payroll?? He on something else. He pregnant🫃🏾
What I find interesting about the Jordan vs Lebron GOAT debate is I keep hearing the Lebron camp saying "well if this isn't enough, what else does Lebron have to do?". In my mind, that's exactly the wrong mindset and why people are so stat focused.
To me, Jordan is the GOAT not just because of his stats but because of his image, his work ethic, what he represented for the NBA, and how he inspires future generations. It also why I would put even Kobe above Lebron in a GOAT debate. Lebron is who he is. He's a great player and one of the best to ever lace up. But he is who he is as an athlete and role model. Jordan takes it personal and and will work even harder destroy the opposition, Lebron complains and comes up with excuses. Kobe will win with bones spurs, pops back dislocated fingers without even pausing the game, and sink free throws with a blown achilles, Lebron puts on a cast for a post-game to show how he's not 100% after a loss.
There's nothing Lebron can really do to change who he is and the image and legacy he's already established. So there's nothing Lebron can do to become the GOAT.
I remember one game where Lebron was taken out in the last quarter, he was sitting on the bench clipping his fingernails.
Amen
Gilbert is the prime example of just because you were an NBA player doesn’t mean you know basketball…
Gilbert was an amazing player and averaged over 25 ppg for 3 straight seasons, so I think he understands what he is talking about.
Facts and he says stupid shit for clicks.
@Couldn't find a good name ooooh, 3 whole seasons???? Wow.
@@ShawnE31415 knowing how to play, and knowledge of the game are different things. This is the same guy that basically said Gianni’s is not a good player because he doesn’t have a jump shot our crazy dribbling
It's obvious that being an NBA player doesn't indicated you know basketball. Consider Shaq. Probably one of the best centers in NBA history but he's an absolute idiot. Profressional athletes are not the smartest people in our society.
People also forget that with the advancements in sports science and just medical science in general has given players nowadays a huge advantage in terms of being able to play at a high level for longer. We're seeing it in all sports across the globe with more elite athletes with unprecedented longevity. MJ being elite at 35 when he won his last chip in the 90s is simply insane.
And yet, with all these advances, players still need to take games off for “load management.”
Gilbert asks us what does winning "have to do with the best player"? Nothing I guess, Gilbert. You're right. Why did we ever think winning was the goal in competition?
These are the type of illogical arguments you have to come up with to support LeBron.....how many rings would the bulls have without m.j.???? All the bulls rings came with m.j.
@@jonthomson9262 you forgot pippin and Rodman. Jordan wouldn’t have won without those guys.
I'm pretty sure by his "Logic" The Buffalo Bills from 1990-93 been the most successful NFL Franchise. (Cause who cares about winning? 🤣🤣 )
@@ShawnE31415your right Jordan never ever won without rodman
@@ShawnE31415 Jordan wouldn’t won without Rodman ?… he won 3 straight championships before Rodman’s arrival👍now Pippen ? Different story!!
Defense does not exist in the NBA today.
Jordan’s single playoffs game scoring record has stood for 36 years, almost as long as Kareem’s record. Oh, and he has 5 of the other top 15 single playoff game performances.
Since 1987 MJ has been points per game career scoring leader as well, if we go, season, for season.
Your right, Jordan has tons of individual records.... Probably the greatest peak of any player in history if we are being honest.
Son a gun I literally was about to make this comment but u beat me I literally just did the math lol but word the all time playoff scorer ain’t even beat 63pts
-- Lebron is a great scorer. But greatest scorer? MJ
Lebron has more points than MJ bc he has 20 seasons. MJ had 15 seasons and...skipped 1.5 years of PRIME MJ (age 30).
Using Arenas' argument: So why wasn't Kareem being considered the ultimate GOAT, while having the career points record for 40 years before Lebron broke it? So does Lebron having the record for most career turnovers negate many of his accomplishments, since Arenas is talking about career records?
The biggest problem with Bron's GOAT argument is you have to down play the most important thing...winning. Herm Edwards said it best "You play to win the game!" Everyone will have stats if they play long enough, but the greats of the greats win more. Melo has more points than Hakeem and Duncan, but you will find no one that will say Melo was better than Duncan or Hakeem. Hell winning one chip is the only reason Doc Rivers was ranked a top 15 coach all-time. Winning is and was everything until Bron came along and his fans had to change the narrative.
I believe the quote I heard recently went something like this..... "When you're good, you tell everybody. When you're great, they tell you." I rest my case.
Your Skills determine how good a player you are!
Just like your skills determine how good a worker you are!
Melo wasn't better than either 😂 Again no defense. Hakeem could score as good as him and was light years better defender. Hakeem has 2 quadruple doubles in his career only player to do that. Melo isn't even in the NBA, not that he doesn't want to be, he does but no one wants to watch a dude score 12 points off the bench but turn around and give up 25 to whoever he's guarding
I Could've Said It Better..!!👍🏾
You know they were making the same kind of arguments about Jordan. Before Jordan, it was all about sharing the ball and the big man down low and someone as selfish as Jordan could never be the goat. "A Real good player passes the ball". I remember a quote for some no-name Streetballer from back in the day circa 1993 "I'm beginning to hate Jordan he is a selfish Ball-hog"
The bottom line is you can make all kinds of arguments as to why Lebron doesn't deserve to be the Goat but I've heard it all before about:
1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Kobe
4. Kareem
The real reason that you cannot crown Lebron the Goat is because of your own immaturity and short-sightedness, but mostly your own immaturity.
Immature men who haven't accomplished anything in Life hate success
Me? I give Credit where credit is due but then again......
I've been there and have done that.....
Or maybe I am not an Immature Child anymore....
We will be having this same conversation about Steph Curry later on. I can see it now the stupid arguments against Steph Curry being the Goat circa 2040....
" A good player dominates in the paint"
"A good player dunks to send a statement"
"Steph Curry is not the goat because he is too selfish to be a point guard"
or...
"HE HAD A SUPERTEAM!" (that is the most laughably hysterical argument I have ever heard yet...)
History just repeats itself over and over again and people are just too shortsighted despite the 200-core 500 gigabyte ram super computer they have.
People are stupid!
The rule changes helped Lebron more than Lebron helped the game. That about sums it up
I want an FBI forensic accountant to do a deep dive into Gilbert’s finances. I’m sure you’ll find payments from Klutch Sports 😂😂
KRUTCH sports...they dont have a leg to stand on and always need help!!
Somebody please 🙏, stop Gilbert from talking , I can't take no more.
😂😂😂
He trains bronny james
90s was still BEST ERA. Fact, not opinion.
Of the list of top 75 players ever, 27 played at least a part of their prime in the 90s. More than any other decade. And yet...
During that time Jordan 3-peated, left to play another professional sport for 2 years, came back and 3-peated again.
You know why that record lasted for 40 years? Because MJ was not really motivated to break it, he could've easily broken that record if he wanted to. It will only take him like 2-3 more season to break it. That would mean he wouldn't retire the 2nd time and his body may not be as bad as those times he was in washington. All MJ cares about is winning games and collecting rings thats why he retired coz unlike LBJ, MJ built the chicago team, waited for it to become better and won championships with that team.
Jordan said that during his playing career too,before LeBron came into the league. Shows you what his mentality was during his career.
That’s what I’m saying. It’s annoying watching these guys pretend like LeBron accomplished something that Jordan couldn’t do.
LeBron would still be like 4,000 points away from first place if Jordan played 5 more seasons.
@@Kimeikus Jordan definitely couldn’t break Kareem’s scoring record man lmao
Because Karl Malone had a child with an underage female, and the nba didn’t want him breaking that record.
@@47thChromosome MJ was the 7x current scoring champ when he retired in 1993, to play baseball at 30.
Let's be real, what is Gilbert Arenas known for besides his nickname "Agent 0" and for him pulling a gun out on a teammate in the locker room over a card game bet? And Arenas asked "What does the chip have to do with it?" It has a lot to do with it because you play the game to win and to win the ultimate prize, which Arenas seems to have forgotten. But i guess it's easy to forget when he never won one.
You don't need to disrespect the older player's era to prop up today's era it's so lame!
From the second someone says F winning or winning doesn't matter, they should not be taken seriously!
MJ said it best, it’s not fair to compare players from different eras. Yet here are the LeDouche 🍆 riders keep trying to prop him up as the GOAT. Puh-leeze. MJ never claimed to be the GOAT, and he’s always given props to the people who came before him. LeDouche proclaiming he’s the GOAT is top-notch douchebaggery.
Longevity doesn't mean you are the best only being the best makes you the best.
Lebron is not even in the conversation for Goat. I seen him quit against the Celtics walking off the floor with minutes left. I seen him get outplayed by Jason Terry in a championship series when he was in his time. Plus he travels all the time 😂😂.
You know when Jordan was still playing they said the same things about him too....
History repeats itself.
So you just stopped watching as LeBron won 4 chips and went to 8 finals after that?
@@kingrakim7016 Jason Terry. DQ😂😂😂
@@catalyst4518 😂😂😂 Load Management.
@@cressro That is smart! Prolonged his Career! If you are a lock to be #1 seed in the playoffs why play the last 10 games? Football does that all the time, why not basketball!
I only feel bad for the impressionable youth who don’t know better and actually listen to Gilbert, who we can see didn’t prioritize winning, especially when it counts to downplay the legacy of one of the greatest winners in all major sports. Between him bc and JJ Reddick, they’re both building tall fortresses with all these bricks they’re offering up
Gilberts, the type that treasures the warriors 73-9 ( finals loss) over 72-10 ( won finals). Sad..
It don't mean a thing if you don't get that ring.
That Bulls team was 87-13 playoffs included. Warriors were 82-18 playoffs included. There's no comparison to be made.
@@donaldsnead215 Except the Warriors had better competition....
@@catalyst4518 Not starting this ridiculous debate. That Bulls team SWEPT a 60 win Magic team with prime Shaq and Penny and endless shooters that would have dusted that Warriors team. And that Bulls team beat a 64 win Sonics team in the Finals. Please just stop.
@@donaldsnead215 Because MJ had a SUPER TEAM!
No he didn't LOL! It was just MJ one on five. He did it all by himself. Ok you win lets end this ridiculous debate now.
I would argue that the only thing players are consistently better at today is shooting the ball. 80s and 90s ballers were better at everything else, especially physical defense, which doesn't exist in today's league. Best defender used to mean something, but now nobody cares who the dpoy is.
Mike is in a Galaxy, Stratosphere, Universe and Solar System by himself
How? MJ was a scoring machine. Even if MJ didn't retire those 2 seasons he would not have passed Kareem.
Overrated
@Giovanni Williams lebron started at 18 on NBA. Not just those 2 season. Also the season from bulls to wizard. He didnt play. Plus 1985, he got injured.
@@giovanniwilliams9009 yeah coz MJ only played 15 seasons meanwhile Kareem played almost 20 years that's almost 5 years more and Kareem played about 500 more games and 17000 minutes than MJ, and MJ only played 13 proper seasons as he was injured in other 2 and still had a better average than Kareem. Kareem was ahead of MJ by 6k points so MJ would've had to average like 3k points a season that's 37 ppg and averaging that for 2 seasons would be impossible onl Wilt could average such crazy numbers
Just imagine if Jordan had gone straight from high school to the NBA and never interrupted his career to play baseball. We wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
Meh. Never discount dean smiths teachings.
MJ should've played 19 Seasons,He could've 8 peat like Bill Russell
@@aarontrainor9918 Bill Russell played when there were only 9 teams in the league and Boston had the monopoly on talent. The Celtics run was way overrated !
If you have two employees, one that made more widgets per week than the other. But he leaves for another job after 5 years. When the other employee ends up making more total widgets after working 8 years, he wasn't ever better at it. Just was around longer.
Correct we have always heavily favored per game stats over total stats so long as they had at least decent length of career....say at least 10-12 years
Great analogy!
Agreed. The flaw of Gilbert's argument is at its core, ignorant. If we are choosing points scored as the measurement stick of greatness, then points scored in each season becomes part of defining greatness.
In 11 full seasons with the Bulls, MJ lead the league in points scored 11 times - the only player to achieve this.
In 20 seasons LeBron has achieved this 1.
In 11 playoffs MJ scored the most points 8 times.
In 15 playoffs LeBron scored the most points 6 times.
LeBron has scored over 2000 points in a season 10 times his highest score 2481. (32nd in NBA history).
In playoffs he has scored over 550 points 8 times, highest score 748. (2nd in NBA).
In 11 seasons MJ scored over 2000 points 11 times, highest score 3041. (3rd highest in NBA history). In fact MJ scored over 2500 points 6 times.
In the playoffs MJ was over 550 points 8 times highest score 759 (1st in NBA).
And in game scores MJ's highest score is 69, with 31 games scoring over 50, - in 1072 games played.
Lebron's highest is 61 with 4 games over 50 - in 1417 games played.
If they want to use points scored as the new greatest measuring stick, no problem, however, Gilbert should review the numbers as LeBron gets swept it's not even close.
Does he not realize that he is basically saying that a guy like Ginobili was a better scorer than he was because Ginobili had more total points in his career? Ginobili averaged 13 and Arenas 20, but Ginobili scored 3000 more total points.
I would rather have Ginobli on my team than Arenas.
@@traviscarver4708 So would I, but that doesn't change the fact that Arenas was a better scorer.
So is Elgin Baylor a better scorer than KD because he averages more points? Is Kobe not even a top 10 scorer of all time because he isn't top 10 in PPG? Be consistent with your own logic.
@@gggyy7104 Be consistent? I literally pointed to one instance where it would be a bad argument. Everything needs to be looked at in context. Not only did MJ average more points than LBJ, but he also won significantly more scoring titles as well. On top of that he played the latter stages of his career in an ultra slow paced league and still averaged around 30 PPG. Did you know MJ averaged the same percentage of his teams points in 2001 with the Wizards as LeBron is this year with the Lakers? As for Baylor and KD I would say that Baylor played at a time when stats were heavily inflated and he also just spent more time on the floor per game than KD. Their per 36 actually has KD ahead by a couple points. MJ is still comfortably ahead of LeBron in points per 36 as well. A more telling stat is probably points per 100 possession and MJ is comfortably ahead there as well.
@@cobra7282 I’m not saying Lebron’s the better scorer. I’m saying if PPG were the only thing that mattered, Baylor is top 3 scorer ever. Now you wanna apply context and look at per 100 and per 36 and all? Most Jordan fans don’t say anything about that when comparing two scorers, they simply go ‘but but PPG’
Karl Malone would have broken Kareem's record if he wanted to continue playing, he just didn't have the motivation anymore after his last try with the Lakers.
Malone mom passed away so he decided to hang it up.
💯
@@lut2843 oh I see, I didn't know that, thanks
If I made a top 10 list of players to not take advice from, Arenas would be on there.
You would think that Gilbert would know that it was harder to score back then because they were actually allowed to play defense
Gil has no respect for the past.
The talent is so much better today than in the 90s though. Just because the game in the 80s and 90s was more physical doesn’t mean defense was overall tougher.
He does but he has to back bron cuz what he cares about is himself and he knows he'll be talked about it he goes against common sense. The man acknowledged Jordan would average over 40 in this league and he thinks totals matter more? What do you think he would say if you told him jj reddick and hundreds of others are better scorers and players than arenas?
@@ShawnE31415 The talent is much better on offense, but that has a lot to do with increased spacing and players not being allowed to be physical on defense. An average athlete that is allowed to be physical is likely to play better defense than a great athlete that isn't allowed to be physical. Not that there weren't a lot of great athletes in the league back in the 80s and 90s either.
@@ShawnE31415 Defense was overall tougher. You play good defense on a star now the refs start blowing the whistle. You saw that last night with Dame. There were no one on one possessions where the Rockets were allowed to get a stop on Dame without a foul call.
It was double him or he scores one way or another. There's a reason why Luka said the NBA is easier than Euroleague and why LeBron averages 30 at 38 years old. You're not allowed to play defense now.
The resume gap between jordan & lebron is literally a 1st ballot HOF resume. That’s insane !
Never call today's cupcake players skilled again you 1d1ot
I like how all of these guys actually played against transitional players that didn't dominate the supposedly "weak era" of the 90s, but did dominate in the 2000s and beginning of the 2010s, lol. Kobe being a prime example. Shaq and Tim Duncan, another. It's like they can't even fathom the irony of their own argument disproving itself. Especially LeBron. Here's a guy that wasn't the best player in the 2000s, but dominated in the 2010s and even the 2020s, and yet, today's players are supposedly so superior. 🤔🙄
Those players you mentioned weren’t in their peak in the 90s but babies around that time. Once Shaq became unstoppable the league changed the illegal defense rule because Shaq took advantage of it just like MJ did. Jordan ain’t go up against any zone defenses
@@omaidolor8929 False. Teams ran zone in the 80s-90s even though it was illegal. Shaq was elite the moment he stepped foot in the NBA and played 7 seasons in the 90s. Getting rid of illegal defense was to increase scoring and make more perimeter players Jordan like. Also it shouldn't matter if they were babies if the league was weak. Players from the 80s-90s played throughout the 00s-10s.
I disagree with you in saying that LJ didn't dominate in the 2000's he did, LJ didn't win for the same reason that AI.... because they didn't have a solid squad! Give LJ and AI the same squad that Kobe had and the same coach and his unselfish game and they've won easily 5.
@@sideshowbobsaget8876 Teams snuck in zone occasionally but end of the day subconsciously they knew they couldn’t so obviously it makes it hard to maintain that zone coverage. Compared to todays era teams can literally sit in a zone all game long, 2-3, 3-2, 1-3-1, etc. Back in the 90s and 80s dominant teams would literally move players far away from the basket so players like MJ would go one on one with weaker defenders with 0 help coverage. That’s easy for any superstar f the 2000s and 2010 era why? Because they are more skilled and would be able to get by a defender a whole lot easier. Players today are more athletic, faster, bigger, stronger I mean let’s be serious Mugsy Bogues and Soud Webb wouldn’t even be thought of in an NBA draft today.
@@omaidolor8929 False, teams ran zone all the time in the 80s-90s. Iso happens all the time in the 00s-10s and 20s. Players from the 80s-90s played throughout the 00s-10s. All you have to do is watch full games from the 80s-90s
What song is that in the Background? It sounds like Aaron Neville. Thank you.
Nowadays this era is just known for step daddy threes and load managing and no defense!!
Yea this Era became awful the minute Duncan/KG/Kobe retired. Now we're forced to watch traffic cone defense and unlimited 3 point bricks.
LMAO stepdaddy 3s
@@KaineTremaine the league wanted more free flowing play and open lanes like in Europe!!
The NBA game is now euro league basketball and soft!!
@East Bee103 if 38% long distance is "best optimal shot".. then NBA HQ should've moved the line back 5 years ago.
- Emphasize the mid range and post game fundamentals again.. like 1990s (best Era)
@@KaineTremaine the fundamentals have been sacrificed to increase scoring and free flow!!
Shet is sad!! I dont like the nba anymore!!
Even without the gun incident, one call tell that Gil's elevator doesn't go all the way to the top floor. Another fallacy he mentioned was that LeBron is primarily a passer. He's primarily a scorer. Not an elite scorer, but he scores at a high level. He's an above average passer, below average rebounder for his size (compared to Larry Bird, who averaged 10 rebounds while playing with Kevin McHale and Robert Parish during a more physical era). Meanwhile, Jordan's passing has become underrated over time, and it's not a stretch to place him as one of the best passers/rebounders at his position (he still has more total offensive rebounds than LeBron does)
Mj played in the better era
Way better
How so?
@@ineffable_name Most hofers are from 90's. Tells you everything you need
Yes it was !! Today's NBA is a joke. Un watchable. Thats why ratings are at an all time low. The bubble championship had everyone home due to Covid-19 and only 4 million viewers tuned in to watch Lebum lol Jordan's last championship against Utah in 98 drew 88 million lol says it all
@@ineffable_name real defensive rules. Better overall play. Better fundamentals. Just better quality of Basketball.
"We're not prisoners of the moment that lack historical context"
Powerful words
I can never wrap my head around people who claim to be competitive excusing losing
Jordan got swept twice on the first round but I guess that don’t count. 😂
@@michaelbenbow4396#8 seed vs
Larry Bird's best team, NBA champions? Ok son....LeBum missed playoffs first 2 years, now what kid
@@michaelbenbow4396 yeah and I often hear him brag about his scoring record for a single game in that series. Weird almost like he cares more about winning than stats
@@michaelbenbow4396 man was essentially playing on his own against a Celtics team that had 5 HOFers on its starting lineup…MJ still dropped the all time playoff points single game record in them that’s yet to be broken
@@michaelbenbow4396 of course it counts you can't rewrite history. Only difference is people aren't dating things like those losses should count since he was getting swept by the bird Celtics.
Lbj gets swept and all you hear is he never stood a chance or is not fair
I started to stop watching after hearing the word flowers, then I realized Lebron was figuratively sitting on Gilbert's shoulders. Guess where Gilbert's head is?
I'd never heard anyone ever say that Kareem's scoring record would never be broken. I've heard it said of Wilt's 100 point game and Stockton's steals for example.
James turnover record will never be broken. He is so far ahead of any other current player that he’s setting an astronomical number that will never be touched.
Thanks for reminding me. Exactly what I thought!!
It was almost a lock that Malone would break Kareem's record.
Any decent scorer with extra longevity can do it.
Plenty of people have said that, please stop with this guys basketball propaganda he's trying to insert in you people.
@@2357-l9p Name some names of people saying it then..
Chick Hearn Lakers announcer in the 70s threw 2000s said it 😂
Lebron has played with 7 great scorers on his teams. Wade, Bosh, Love, Irving, Davis, Westbrook, Anthony. In every case he took more shots than these players. Pass first? Look at Magic playing with Worth, Abdul Jabar, Wilkes and Mcadoo. The teams were potent offensively, while he took less shots then the guys jobs it was to score. That's pass first.
This is such an accurate video. Also Gilbert arenas is part of Lebron circle so they will do anything to move the goal post and lie and contradict themselves for Lebron
FACTS
100%
This the same guy that had to go therapy cause Lebron said you know your gonna lose if you miss those free throws. Misses Both Free throws.
Exactly!
I loved watching agent 0 play. It really makes me sad that he has all these silly takes. Gilbert changed his whole tune when Vernon Maxwell was on his podcast 😂😂😂. Be consistent bruh all I can say
Someone show me the reel of Jordan flopping a bunch of times. I have seen the LeBron flopping routine
Every big mileston Bron accomplished came with a game loss
@Itachi Is superior to you also had the greatest half court dunk of all-time in basketball history of all time.
Jordan fans love disrespecting LeBron. It’s ridiculous.
@@ShawnE31415 I mean lebron ruined space jam. Why wouldn't we not like him?
@@ShawnE31415are you listening to the disrepect that arenas is spewing right? Ah the irony.
@Couldn't find a good name it's a fact that he'd lost after every accomplishment. The disrespect would be me lying on him. Rearrange yo priorities. Cause Gilbert is putting the carriage in front of the horse.
10:03 I don't even think he's 2nd of all time. Kareem, Bird, Kobe, those guys would have never lost with Dwane Wade and Chris Bosh. Remember Kobe getting chips with Pao Gasol as his sidekick? Could you even FATHOM Lebron winning with nothing more? See, Lebron is great, but he doesn't hold a candle next to the players who didn't need to forge their own teams with superstar buddies to win.
LeBron plays great Michaels a great player Michael has the wow factor
Well said! And MJ's WOW Factor? Jordan's tongue and personality get more women.
It's just not sexy to pass in order to get the ball back and score an easier shot. It just isn't! Even though all these MJ fans tell their sons in High School varsity to pass. They are all hypocrites!
What does he have to do to be the best?...... Why do they play the game?... stats?... or championships? Mic dropped
A lot of ringless low impact guys got a lot to say about those that came before them.
Just like JJ, "No Chill Gil" is just trying to farm engagement
exactly. look at what you just said then y’all criticize for “ring chasing”. JJ literally played for 14 years in the league and Gil was the number 1 option on his team til he was injured. TH-cam is a shithole because of comments like this
@@vintagemonte 🤡
@@rexcango7058 ouuuu you really got me with that one 😂😂
@@vintagemontethey're not in a position to talk about people who did more since you can see the saltiness from their eyes lol
@@Baccanaso the saltiness in their eyes….. lord have mercy 😭😂
According to Gilbert, record breaking is the main goal of all the players, not winning a chip. So NBA fans youre just wasting money buying tickets to see them live.
I could've sworn per game stats have always been the measuring stick, not total stats.
So Elgin Baylor is the 3rd greatest scorer of all time, got it.
@@gggyy7104 you say that like Elgin Baylor wouldn’t be ranked higher if he had won a championship or two.
Either way, he, KD, and Bron all average about the same amount.
But my comment isn’t necessarily about who is or isn’t the best scorer, it’s about how we generally rank players.
There’s a reason no one cares about the player that averages the most total points in the playoffs or regular season each year and why the leading scorer title is based on PPG.
Not that cumulative stats don’t matter, just that they don’t generally matter as much as averages.
@@SmittyWerbenJagermannJensenI’m talking about specifically scoring. If PPG mattered as much as you say, Elgin would be considered at the least a top 5 scorer of all time. But the thing is Lebron fans don’t just say cumulative stats are the only thing that matters. They say both matter. Lebron is top 5 in PPG and top 1 in total points. It’s not like he averages 19 PPG. That’s whats so impressive.
@@gggyy7104 I said they both mattered, just per game averages generally matter more.
But talking specifically scoring, Jordan is number 1 in PPG and number 4 in total points so what’s you’re scoring argument exactly? Because if being a top player in both categories is you’re criteria, he would still be the best scorer.
Again, the scoring title each season does not go to the player with the most total point, it goes to the player with the highest PPG average. They’re not always the same player.
Either way, no one really discusses cumulative stats when comparing players. Almost every comparison brings up per game stats.
@@gggyy7104 I didn’t say it wasn’t impressive either or that Lebron wasn’t a great scorer, I think he is.
The total stats argument is only just now becoming a thing. No one considered Kareem the best scorer, he would rarely be brought up when talking top scorers. He was considered the prime example of longevity. 20 years of consistent production. That’s impressive on its own.
Stockton has the most total assists, but if I asked you who the best passer of all time was you’d say Magic without hesitation.
It's pretty shallow thinking. Jordan is not number one in any of the categories because accumulating career points was never his goal. LeBron's whole mission has always been to accumulate career stats. If that was MJ's goal, he would never have retired in his prime. So we can't compare them that way.
MJ has the most finals mvps...there you go Gilbert
And as for the 80's & 90's not being able to play in today's league...we'll see how many of the players today break the top 50 in overall league scoring. Jordan was just different...a step or 3 above the rest. We were blessed to watch him.
Lebron fans are really making themselves look foolish. All the facts can be right there in everyone's faces and they would still say Lebron is the best and that just makes no sense
I’ved seen LeBron’s whole career never seen MJ and through research and taking the times to watch Full games regular season and playoffs i can honestly say MJ is better. LeBron is awesome but he is not MJ i have him second all time. Till this day a full hall of fame career separates them as you mentioned 2 chips, 2 fmvps, 1 reg season mvp, 1 dpoy, 9 scoring titles, 3 steals titles and 4 all defensive first team selections thats crazy to me. Mr arenas says MJ doesn’t lead in any categories lol but MJ is the all time leader in ppg in the regular season and playoffs. Has the highest ppg average in a playoff series and finals series. MJ is tied for most all first defensive team selections at 9 with Kobe, Garnett and Gary payton should i keep going. LeBron fans have weak arguments its all about excuses and moving the goal post
Crazy thing is he was got scoring titles while getting defensive player of the year and 1st team defensive pretty much every year. LeBron never did that even once
@@jonthomson9262 Facts
MJ #1 All Time career reg Season PER
- MJ #1 All Time career playoff PER
- MJ #1 All Time career NBA Finals PER.
GOAT 🐐
To make a case for LeBron, it's mostly based on opinions,and tearing down Jordan's Era, because it's impossible to argue against Jordan himself.....to make an argument for Jordan, you can simply state the facts of his resume. You don't even have to mention, LeBron or his Era,nor tear down LeBron or his Era, although you could very easily point to multiple stains on LeBrons legacy if you wanted to,but you don't need too.
4 championships in 200 years
No game 7's in finals. Someone pushed their team and themselves a little harder to not fail!!
@@ricardolozano5356 got stopped by JJ Barea in the finals who wasn't even his size or weight meanwhile guys like Hakeem, David Robinson, Dikembe Motumbo, Rodman still couldn't stop MJ in their primes from dropping 50 on them while being much bigger and stronger
@Aarya Sharma jordan was dunking on them especially Patrick Ewing
@@ricardolozano5356 lol 😂.....if your really the greatest, .what's taking you so long, LeBron????
If he had broken that record in 14 and years I would call him the greatest. Jordan did a hell of a lot more than Lebron in less time. Jordan will be the first to tell you he came to win not to break a scoring record.
Don't argue with Gilbert. He might bring a gun.😂
😂😂😆
The only reason this Era has more stars is because of social media and the lack of D
Gilbert WTF you talking about Round and Round he's goes like a cat chasing his own tail lmao
For me, it has always been simple. If I step on a court against a group of 4th graders on an 8-ft court, I can do everything James can do. I do not have the skill or moves like Jordan. Jordan came back better each year, adding a new wrinkle to his game. To be able to get a great, not good, look whenever he wanted. Was Karl Malone a better scorer than Jordan?? Arenas is bugging.
LeBron #1 ability is being allowed to pound the rock entire shot clocks. Burning the playbook for awkward multi-step back 3s, or firing late awkward passes to guys not really open (Korver)
What I've noticed about Lebronites is they play the What If Game whenever it suits their irrational argument.
Bronsexuals live in hypotheticals
If LeBron had phil jackson if he had pippen If he had them he would abandon them and jump to another team though
Demarcus cousins survived 10 years in the current era so bill laimberr wouldn't huh
He's not in my top 5. He can't hold a candle to MJ.
I’m sure you have to be tired of proving these idiots like Gilbert and other LeBron fans wrong constantly. But it sure is entertaining when you do it!! Love your videos!
The narrative is so bad and misleading. Gilbert does know that MJ SACRIFICED personal stats to build a dynasty. Jordan’s accomplishments are far better than mere personal stats. Personal stats are the consolation prize of a loser
How many 3 peats does Braun have? How many scoring titles? How many MVP’s & Finals MVP’s does Braun have? Last but not least, how many 1st defensive teams and DPOY’s does Braun have? All of these Jordan rules hands down. Jordan may always be the GOAT. I’ve not seen nor heard anything to change my mind. There is no I in team so comparing players without the context of their supporting cast is not really fair. How many teams have 3 finals championships in a row? It’s a small list but the Bulls did it not once but twice.
He lost so much in finals in playoffs and to many of not making the playoffs with teams he should've.
One of the things jordan has that lebron doesn’t is (even if it sounds stupid) he made the people believe he could win anything and fly across the basketball court, lebron doesn’t have the same effect on people
He also built his own mansion. Won 6 rings by himself.
Impregnanted himself with 6 kids.
Built his own car.
Went 72 and 10 going 1 on 5 for 82 games plus 18 playoff games.
Scottie Pippen and Rodman 2 of the all-time best defenders in the history of the NBA and Paxon and Toni Kukoc and their "three headed monster" (the Bulls 3 Centers, Thats 18 fouls on Shaq! and with Rodman that's 24 fouls on Shaq! What the fuck! Or any other low post player of the era!) and Phil Jackson the All-time best Coach in the HIstory of the NBA who installed the Best offense ever the traingle, just sat on the bench and watched porno all day!
DId I forget about Zen Mastery?
OH! And Jordan gave birth to himself too because he is Black Jesus!
Doesd Chuck Norris Stand a Chance?
@@catalyst4518 Wait... You're telling me Jordan needed a team to win championships? I thought he could do it all alone, 1 vs 5 like every other player who won the finals. 🤷🏾♂️🤔 Geez I wonder who the *MVP* was in those games. Please do tell.
That championships make u the great n never chokes
I'm convinced that Gilbert props LeBron up because he got beat by him so to make himself feel better he argues for lebron's goat status so his L isn't as bad to himself.
I think Draymond does this also to make their L not seem as bad and to justify the KD move.
@@Sbcmlg28247 not only that but he can also say he won against the goat. It makes his Steph's and klay's legacy seem better
@@King_Lou96 Yea both him and Gil just trying to pump up their own resume by putting Lebron on this pedestal.
Yah ryt..they're just making that case for them to be also considered as great once challenged LBJ during their time in the NBA.
Remember, Kareem went to college and put up that record. LeBron got a huge advantage by going to the league straight out of high school. LeBron is definitely a great player, but he still hasn’t passed many great players of the past in terms of true greatness.
MJ🐐
He can’t do anything because he already sealed his fate by being a quitter during his championships! Twice he quit on court no heart couldn’t take over and will the win like a Jordan simple!
How did Gilbert pass his G.E.D.??💁🏿♂️🤡
I'm that one fan that didn't think Lebron surpassed expectations because I remember the comical hype he entered the league with.
Pretty simple… one era was based on defence and Championships 🏆 (MJ) the other Era is based on Stats and money 💰 (LBJ) .
Precisely. The whole debate is actually a paradigm shift.
Well Jordan has better per game avg stats.
Jordan has better per season avg stats.
Jordan has better advanced analytical stats.
- LeBron has only longevity stats.. plus longevity of LA losing
@@KaineTremaine Facts 💯 I have Jordan as Goat …. Easily 🤷🏾♂️
@@KaineTremaine Jordan wins in per game stats, advanced metrics, accolades (mvps, scoring titles, dpoy, etc.), and winning (6 championships in 15 total years vs 4 in 20). Lebron really only has longevity.
@CFL Yea I remember when LeBron fans used to bring up stats. They'd say like "most 25 point w 9 assists and 8 rebound games" or something else stupid.
- Now that the legitimate career stats are coming to light.. LeBron fanatics are running from advanced stats like roaches.. Spew a couple of longevity stats, then sprinting away
Gil is starting to come off as a weirdo.
That "Jordan doesn't lead in any category" comes straight from Isaiah
Finals MVPs count? I'd demand it
He also leads the regular season ppg statistics and has the most scoring titles. To be fair, if finals mvp's would've been awarded in the 60's Bill Russell could have more than MJ.
yeah, 10 scoring titles, 6 finals MVP’s, 9x 1st team-all defense, TWO 3-PEATS, lead the league in scoring 7 consecutive years & has the highest PPG all-time
@@xix8597 #1 All Time career 30.12 PPG
#1 All Time playoff 33 4 PPG
#1 All Time NBA Finals 33.6 PPG
And 1st team All Defense his whole prime 🐐
Keep doing what you are doing. Love your vids man
Using this criteria makes Pete Rose the greatest baseball player of all time since he passed Tyler Cobb in hit.
He holds the major league records for games (3,562), at bats (14,053), hits (4,256), and singles (3,215).
On top of that, LeBron scored a lot of points from behind the 3 point line, it wasn't implemented until 10 years after Jabbar was drafted.
When we talk about GOAT, Lebron is not even top 10 on my list I don’t have to believe all the bs the media talk every day for years even when he keep losing and trying to always create teams to win chips so if winning is not important for the GOAT conversation why he is always complaining about teammates when he is losing that of course is 16 years of his career filing the taste of it
Take the Mike from him 🎤
Dude really said winning doesn't matter lol 😂
He could barely roll that nonsense off his tongue.
So many deer in headlight moments
Of course he said that cause he never won a damn thing
I would love to see how Arenas would fare on a debate show where his points can be refuted. A lot of his takes are ill-thought-out and emotionally based. U would think a former player would have a more nuanced perspective but part of me believes Arenas takes certain positions by design to create controversy.
Gilbert is a female!
That is an effeminate man who leads with emotion and not logic!😂
Labron not in top 10 all time actually.
Also if Kevon Loney, Steven Adams, and Mason Plumlee can play today...Bill Laimbeer could certainly play today. Laimbeer was a stretch 5 before we knew what it was. He shot 37% from 3 while getting 9 boards in 91. That is a perfect fit today. People focus on his thug behavior, but dude had skill.
Lambeer would be 3rd team All NBA center at minimum and his team would be a contender bc of his gangster mindset.
I respect that man 💯
Facts. Laimbeer was the 3rd best player on the bad boy during the championship yrs.
lf Gilbert Arenas can make a case that Kareem and Karl Malone are the 2nd and third GOATS, then l'll listen, if its about total points
I appreciate these breakdowns, I think we've all come to a point to where we realize that just because somebody played the game even if they played it at a high level does not mean that they know what the hell they're talkin about when it comes to the media circuit, for years you'd see players criticize the analysts because" they never played the game" , only for some of these former players to have some of the absolute most nonsensical shit takes in the media
It’s funny how nobody brings up the difference in Rules and regulations. Rules play a big part in all of this. With all of the changes MJ and LeBron played in 2 different sports. Just stop and think for a moment, how can you compare stats when your playing a different game? Keep in mind I’m not mentioning the advancements and perks that todays players have over Jordan’s time. What did Lebron ever do for the league? Jordan changed sports because of his greatness. If o was to compare someone to MJ it would be Steph Curry, You see everyone wanting to be like Curry. Steph changed the game. Think about it
Arenas sound like a loser mentality to me.
Bro lebron is not a top 2 how an all time loser can be a top 2 or even a top 5?? The man has also all time bad records playing for long time also brings you bad records
Do a comparison on Jordan vs Lebron in the same amount of games played.
Jordan wins that easily.
This man ruined his own career with his infinite wisdom. The man acts like the rules weren't changed to make scoring easy. Lebron passing Kareem does speak to his longevity, but it also speaks to all the many avenues that allow players today have much longer careers.
Math is hard Gilbert, math is hard!!!
Bro what you said about karem is the same thing about lebron why didn't people consider karem better than mj and now we just consider lebron better. Why the fuck would not people consider karem better than mj who has more mvps as much chips more finals appearance more all time points rebounds and assists than mj and we just do this to lebron this debate mj vs lebron is saying that karem is better than mj.
Because Karreems Personality is not Marketable! Michael Jordans "Business man" like personality is a lot sexier to the masses and we all know sex sells!
Karreems game wasn't sexy either, even though it was.......(hide me from the Jordan fans please because I am gonna say it!)
BETTER!
OH MY GOD I HAVE JUST SINNED AGAINST THE BASKETBALL GODS!
it would be so fun if Jordan and Arenas were still playing. Imagine what Mike would do to him on court after his comments.
MJ would probably retire every other year bc the fans nowadays are shallow. Same as society
I don't know what's going on, why so many of todays or early 2000 era players are just talking crap about past players.. what the hell did these guys do them, what did MJ or Bird or Kareem say to these dudes to make them disrespect them.
They just need to play your videos on these podcasts. That would shut them up so fast