The Greatest Player of All Time debate is once again heating up and today we look at Shannon Sharpe and his ridiculous claims about Michael Jordan. Hope you enjoy.
Shannon: All that matters is whether you win or lose! Lebron 4-6 in finals Jordan 6-0 in finals Ok Shannon, you just said that Jordan was better. Confirmed.
@@lancemurdoc6744 pippen averaged 15 to 20 ppg in all of his nba finals appearances mj averaged over 30 mj is the main reason for the bulls championships go look at the 1998 nba finals mjs supporting cast of pippen, Rodman, longley, Harper combined gave mj a total of 30 points pippen averaged 15 Rodman 5 Longley 5 Harper 5 mj averaged 33 ppg in 2018 kyrie Irvin and Kevin love just two players gave lebron a total of 43 ppg that's 13 more ppg from lebrons supporting cast than mjs entire starting lineup supporting cast averaged kyrie averaged 27 love averaged 16 ppg despite lebron having more help than mj did lebron still lost next time you speak of this garbage as if pippen carried Jordan first go do some research and see the truth and not the lie like you're spewing
@@lancemurdoc6744 1998 NBA finals combined Jordan's whole supporting cast gave him 55 ppg lebrons big 3 in 2018 of himself kyrie and love combined scored 70 ppg the whole entire bulls team scored 88 ppg that's only 18 more ppg lebrons big 3 scored more than lebrons big 3 scored of lebron who averaged 27 ppg kyrie 27 ppg love 16 ppg that's 70 ppg from 3 players to mjs whole team 88 ppg out of the 88 ppg mj scored 33 of them despite lebron having more help he still lost despite mj literally having no help statistically the 1998 team was just as bad as the lebrons cavs finals team that he lost with that he supposedly brought to the finals by himself they averaged 1 less ppg than the 98 bulls did
@@jonathanbrown9018 You mean he left every time things got difficult. That sounds like winning in every system. And Phil Jackson is the most overrated coach of all times.
@@jonathanbrown9018 what systems are you talking about, they are all the same lebron system ... Every time he moved, he set the same system but different people around him ...
There are many dumb arguments for LeBron being the GOAT, but acting like moving to different teams is better than creating a dynasty with one team is extremely idiotic to me.
The "LeBron is GOAT" club.. I think they all started watching NBA in 2011. And none of them know what they're even watching. ☝🏽 included in this is are the 40 year old black males who were Locked up during the 90s. They don't know the sport
He moved to a different team because they were younger. Like he said bulls dealt with injuries and they had the oldest team in the league and still won. Lebron didn't want to deal with that and just left.
@@adi_2 for sure. And joined up with two top superstars in the league at the time in their primes. Lebrons time in Cleveland showed he was unable to make his teammates better. Jordan dealt with the growing pains and allowed the team to gel around him. He didn’t need his team to make constant trades and upgrades. He didn’t need to join two top players in their primes just because Detroit had his number for a few years. That is one of the main reason I have jordan above lebron.
Exactly! Phil Jackson became a great coach as the Bulls ascended, and MJ made that happen, much like Bill Belichick ascended as a head coach as Tom Brady developed. Those player/coach relationships rose to greatness together! Jordan was ready when Phil Jackson got there.
@@subzero308 How was he saved his whole career? You're literally making no sense whatsoever. The point you're responding to is relevant and actually makes sense...... yours doesn't.
Jordan accomplished everything in his career in 11 1/2 seasons with the bulls. The half comes from his return from baseball and the year he broke his foot if you combine those two you basically have about a half season. So in that timeframe 6 titles 6 finals MVP’s 5 mvps 10 scoring titles 3 times leading the league in steals Multiple seasons of 200 steals and 100 blocks DPOY 3 time all star game mvp 9x nba all defense 11x all nba Also rookie of the year I’m sure I’m missing stuff but just think this was all done in 11 1/2 seasons with the bulls and Lebron is still playing catch-up in his 20th season.
What’s more impressive; beating the juggernaut 1 of 4 times you face them in the finals? Or BIENG the juggernaut again, and again, and again, then doing it again, and again, and again. This dichotomy always put the goat debate in an effective context.
lebron didn't beat the juggernaut. Let me ask would Klay, Green, and whoever was in that team in 2015~2016 warrior make them a super team if you remove Curry? if the answer is no. Are you guys insinuating that Curry alone is the Juggernaut? if no. what made the GSW a Juggernaut when bron beat them?
@@youboob6297 So why is it the greatest team of all time? if you remove curry are you saying curry alone is above lebron james? As his impact made the GSW the greatest of all time because it definitely ain't klay nor green and even if we remove Klay and Green as long as we leave curry on it it is still a great team. Is Lebron in the belief Curry is above him for him to call the GSW the Greatest of all time?
After all the endless debates with LeBron fans and the way they talk about Pippen I have come to the conclusion that Pippen should be ranked higher than LeBron
"MJ won because of Pippen and Phil!" For sure! But let's not act like Pippen was the 2006 FMVP before joining the Bulls, or the #1 pick from Duke or Kentucky. Pippen was from a very small college and he developed with time. Bulls took a chance on him and didn't trade him away just because he wasn't an All-Star his first few seasons. And let's not act like Phil had been even coaching in the NBA and winning championships before he got the head coach job in Chicago. He was coaching in an overseas league. Phil and Pippen had to prove themselves. And they combined really well with MJ.
@@jordanjenkins1671 wow i guess phil and Pippen shot the ball for Jordan a lot mj won because of theses two, amazing i thought there was a team but wow 3 people and one was a coach. they won because they were a team
@@jordanjenkins1671 who cares about being a finals mvp? or a number 1 pick? all that means nothing. Andre Iguadala was a Finals MVP. KWame Brown was a first pick. what matters is that scottie pippen was in the mvp race in 1994 and wwas always on the first team all defense. lebron never had a first team defender on his team
Shannon Sharpe would be embarrassingly easy to lay waste to in a debate. Lebron quit a 61-win Cavs, a 54-win Heat, and a 50-win Cavs all after being destroyed in the playoffs (2x in the Finals). He fled all of those situations to go and join better players and make winning easier. Achieving a dynasty takes guts, mental fortitude, and the perseverance to repeatedly rise to the challenge of expectations and being the biggest target in the league. Lebron chose to circumvent the spirit of competition and run to greener pastures rather than endure. Shannon also lied and said Lebron won in 3 different systems. Every "system" eventually became The Lebron System and to date, 84 trades have been made since Summer 2010 to support The Lebron System. Shannon saying that the only thing that matters in Club Shay-Shay is "did you win or lose" is cap of the highest order. He and every Lebron fanatic like him deflect, spin, and twist narrative to disarm Lebron's many losses and failures as much as humanly possible. Shannon is as fraudulent as the so-called goat argument.
People need to read your second sentence again because that really is the issue. Everyone likes to dump on those Cavs teams, but record wise they were the best team in the NBA. We didn't see Giannis or Dirk quitting and leaving after they got stomped in the playoffs multiple times. When Jordan was getting smoked in the playoffs we didn't see him leave either. Same with Kobe. Lebron to this date is the only guy we have rated as an all time Great that leaves when things get tough. Going to ten straight finals. Yall don't think players like Jordan could have done that had he joined the pistons in his prime and then leave to the Lakers with Magic after Isiah broke his wrist?
@@MikeBNumba6 EXACTLY! Lebron chose to quit & run and seek out shortcuts where other players on his level ALL ENDURED. This alone to me, disqualifies him from the goat argument, not to mention, a ton of other things.
@@b.g.4266 literally everyone would of left that shit ass cavs team don’t even, jordan’s had it easy being drafted by a team with a competent front office unlike lebron
Michael never face Player who shot 3's from the logo. Michael never face 7ft guys who could shot like guards. Michael had Help from Kukoc, Pippen, Kerr, Rodman, Harper and Longley. Michael was great, but also his Swad. There is no such thing like a GOAT.
Shannon just thinks that if he yells his opinion and mean mugs you, then nobody will notice all the bullshit that's actually being spoken. 🤣 ESPN hires so many dipshits, it's crazy! 🤣
True...they will say LeBron (individual) has been to 10 Finals but because he lost more than he won, they will say it's a team sport. They have to make up their minds.
Shannon is a good analyst, but he needs to let go of brons balls with that goat sht. The reason I got Bron #2 instead of goat is that he lost a few of those finals that Jordan would have easily won, especially against that Old ass Mavs squad his first finals trip with Miami, no way Jordan would have lost to that team with a still prime d wade and Bosh by his side, and heat was favored to win that one
@@ex1dia876 Only goofy Bron fans think you can make a goat case by who he went 1-8 against in 2 finals!! 😂😂😂 Bron has had more help than any other player....even in Miami he could only go .500...with 2 other top ten players!! Ridiculous
@@rightfulone2597 They act like the teams that Jordan went against were absolute trash. Any of those teams that Jordan faced in the finals would absolutely dominate today.
@@fredjones4782 Exactly...they make goat cases off of Durant and Curry...How does getting absolutely obliterated, make a case for being the goat?!! Everytime they knock Jordan's its early in his career....the knocks on Bron are all throughout his career. Kudos to him for knowing he couldn't get it done and needed all star teammates 😂😂
@@rightfulone2597 The fact that they can only use the beginning of his career as a knock against him shows that they know they can’t argue against Jordan’s legacy as the 🐐!
Yup….I wanted my Lakers - and Magic - to beat him SO badly in 1991, but DAMN he was too good. And yes, Lebron is a GREAT player….but MJ was….something I’d never, and still haven’t seen. The elephant in the room I HAVE to address is the “Shannon Sharpe” argument : the, “Well, Jordan got swept 3 times between 1985 - 1987”, which is a fact….but ignores one important detail : …Jordan was either the best or tied for the best player in almost EVERY series he played in… Let that sink in : in 86 & 87, MJ is a 2nd and 3rd year player, going H2H with one of the greatest ever - Bird - who’s in the process of winning 3 straight MVPs, and MATCHING him. In fact the ‘87 series doesn’t get talked about enough…’86 has his 63 point game and he averages almost 44 ppg, but the bulls lose Games 1 & 3 by an average of 19 points…in ‘87, he averages 35/7/6/2/2 (😗!) and the average of the losses goes down to 8! …and the only difference was that they lost Orlando Woolridge…they got WORSE talent wise! 🤷🏾♂️ My point is that THIS is what separates MJ from the rest of the pack : it’s not in the wins, it’s in the LOSSES….he’s NEVER had a shit playoff series…even in the Comeback in ‘95 - despite getting stripped in Game 1 - he’s still the best offensive player in that series (maybe not the best player), so even at his worst, he’s still on a different plane. Whereas with Kobe, Lebron, and others, I can point to multiple times where they didn’t show up.
DR J said it best , no player that has to go to different cities where super teams are bought for quick rings can be in any conversation about being the best period .
Jordan had 6 rings in 15 seasons, 6 Finals MVP, 5x NBA MVP, 2 x Slamdunk champion, 10 scoring titles, 9x NBA All Defense 1st team in an era with hand checking and limited 3s. Jordan didn't leave Bulls to play with other stars for a chip. In fact, there were no other stars save maybe Charles Oakley in his early Bulls years. Horace Grant, Scottie Pippen, Toni Kukoc grew into stars playing alongside Jordan. Dennis Rodman was the only star I remembered brought in to beef the team up after Horace got traded. I give LeBron credits for playing 20 seasons and surpassing Kareem in scoring but to crown him GOAT? Please. Pffft...
That’s just good GM work. No one’s fault. Most of those guys came late 80s/early 90s so that’s 4-5 years of Jordan being in the league. The cavs draft picks after lebron were trash.
LeBron’s been to more championships but factor in his calculated moving around to franchises he felt were already in good contention to win the title. Jordan was the keystone in Chicago for a decade and a half, and after all the work and coming up short, he never lost a championship series.
@@chaximushoffman8102 Jordan couldn't get past the second round because he played against bird and his 3 other hall of fame teammates birds supporting cast scored 354 points during the series to mjs supporting cast 154 so next time you speak of something speak within context of why Jordan couldn't get past the second round not because of jordan because of his lack of scoring production from his teammates vs birds amazing scoring production from his teammates and stop going with the bs narrative to discredit mj mj had bums as his teammates bird had allstars that's the difference who did mj have David Corzine to birds McHale, parish, ainge?
That mfer is the coach, GM, scout, Team President, Concession stand worker and still has a losing Finals records lol. Also all the milestones he has accomplished has come in a loss. Lol, he has no clutch gene in his entire body.
So did Jordan, So did Bird, and a lot of others in the nba you could name. And remember Phil Jackson. It’s because of Mike Jordan he became head coach in Chicago!
How Lebron fans really feel. I went to one of their secret meetings. It went like this. “ there’s no way Lebron is going to catch MJ in rings, MVP, and FMVP. We need something to elevate our king to goat status. Him winning in 2016 vs 2 3 peats is starting to sound ridiculous even to Bronsexuals” “ I got it. Our king is fast approaching the all time scoring record. We will overhype that record and act like is the end all of basketball” “ brilliant Shannon “ shut your mouth we’re supposed to use code names Nick” This will be it because our king is incapable of winning. He didn’t even make the play in last year with a good roster” “ Ok let’s go on tv and sell this BS to our viewers” Based on a true story no cap
All fax bro. ESPN and Wall Street been trying to sell LeBron since 2005. There's "less" money they could make off MJ, so his legacy needed to be ignored and destroyed. ☝🏽 This is why Skip gives less than half an effort in GOAT debates. Not even worth watching Shannon allowed to spread Fake News with no effort from Skip
Lebron just proved he was just statpadding to get that longevity record, now he's "injured" and probably will remain injured till all star weekend and magically will be in shape to play again, why? Because he needs the praise and will try to win all star MVP since it's the only award he can win
@Robin agreed. Idk why they mad about him resting. It's year 20. - he's nowhere close to MJ tho, bc he left his defense in Miami. Stopped winning MVPs and #1 playoff seeds.
The worst thing about history is how quickly it is forgotten. I've had the pleasure of seeing both MJ and LeBron play from the beginning of their careers to the end (Lebron's future end) and I've seen too many occasions where LeBron has given up on plays, given up on his team, slacked off on defense, taken off games when he wasn't injured and etc. I can't say the same for MJ. And not to say that MJ is perfect and haven't had bad games, but his desire to win and his ability to push his teammates to win (despite his tactics) and what he's done on the court, MJ is without question the G.O.A.T
I have also and even seen him quit twice! Against Celts, Warriors. I didn't even bother to watch the Dallas finals series -- I heard he quit there. And when Miami lost he moved to Cleveland where his return meant they have their 4 number one draft picks in one place, although he chase Wiggins out of town. He returned because that clear easy road to follow. Not hearing crap about bringing a chip home. that team had tools!
There is no debate, period. Basketball is a 2 way sport is it not? Please tell me, at what point has LeBron EVER been the BEST offensive AND defensive player in the league? MJ was twice, undisputed, recorded 200 steals and 100 blocks. 1 of ONLY 3 to EVER do it... Not only did he do it, he is the ONLY person to do it TWICE... oh! While averaging 30 ppg... The legit ONLY thing LeBron had on MJ is rebounding. LeBron is much bigger so if he isn't a better rebounded then that'd be sad lol. I'm tired of hearing "LeBron is a GREAT passer", BULLSHIT. LeBron is a "willing" passer not a "great" passer. The guy is barely top 4 in assists and has literally 1000s of turnovers more than ALL of the people ahead of him... MJ had a higher usage% and had a better assists to turnover ratio... which most people who know ball would say off sheer numbers... Jordan was a better passer... There is no debate... The only person to even step next to mike in the GOAT convo is Wilt... And that's it.
>The worst thing about history is how quickly it is forgotten Oh, now Jordan fans know what it's like whenever they wave off Bill Russell winning more rings and getting more finals than Jordan? Or how they insist that Kareem was boring and Wilt was just a big man who scored a lot?
I want to know how many titles MJ would have if he "took his talents" to L.A. to play with Magic, then joined forces with Ewing in NY, then bolted for Phoenix so he could team up with his buddy Charles, and then finally forced team-ownership to re-work the roster to bring more A-list players to his team so he could avoid developing his own team?
Also, in 89 the Pistons were the reigning world champions with the best record in the NBA.. when Miami lost with Lebron, their team was the favorite but they lost!
@@stephannielsen4177 it’s safe to assume their the world champions when you play in the best league in the world. What champion in other countries would beat the NBA champion lol? Answer is no one.
Awesome video. My best takeaway is when you said "Shannon compares jordan to perfection, but compares LeBron to jordan". That.. to me.. is the end of the debate. Beautifully said and thank you
He'd get a concussion from one of his 3 minute interpretive dance flops gone bad, get she'll shocked and keep living the same non foul over in his head day after day after day. The Basketball Diaries on the Western Front.
He would dominate he would have grown up used to contact. His size and speed would have dominated back then lol. I love the 80s and 90s but I know lebron would have dominated and I can't stand lebron.
@Charles Pendley He'd be swept in EVERY. SINGLE. SERIES. Period. LeBron would get stomped in that era. He might win a few playoff games in his prime but that's it.
Shannon once said that MJ didn’t do anything before Pippen except put up stats since he was losing early in the playoffs…so the question for Shannon is what is LBJ doing now besides putting up stats? By Shannon’s logic, LBJ is doing at the tail end of his career what MJ was doing at the beginning of his
The flaw in your logic is that stat padding at the age of 38 is unheard of in the NBA, the mere fact that LBJ can still stat pad in that age, MJ can't even stat pad when he was in Wizards hahahaha
Lebron wasn't doing anything either. He was losing as well, until he went to Miami. Free riding the weakest East in NBA history to lose to the West every. single. time. isn't an accomplishment. Lebron is technically playing solid ball right now, but somehow they're 13th seed with an actual good team. There's no one in the world that thinks they should be basically dead last with their squad (the bottom 2 teams are awful and probably trying to throw for potential VW draft)
Just imagine if MJ had stomped his feet in hissy fits over wanting to team up with let's say Barkely, Olajuwon, Bird, Malone or Isiah. Talk about 10 chips at least...
he had scottie pippen who was a better fit than any of em and a better defender. yall keep acting like jordan played with bums his whole career like hes allen iverson
@@RobinXlone On the other side Jordan haters act like Pippen came in the league averaging 28-6-5 like Jordan did as a rookie. Pippen as a rookie bench guy in 88 averaged 8ppg and 3rpg but folks act like he's why Jordan was MVP, DPOY, and got out of the first round. Pippen wasn't a bum but he had to develop as a player and he was able to because he never had the pressure of being The Alpha of The Bulls that was Jordan. We never talk about how Jordan helped Pippen it's always made out to look like only Jordan benefitted from their partnership.
@@joshuawilliams7653 just like nobody talks about how lebron helped wade, helped kyrie and help anthony davis. because they are the leaders of the team we talk about how they benefitted from the help
@@kitdman5749 so what? they were together for 4 years before winning. and then pippen was all defensive. jordan had no reason to leave. the bulls got him help. something la failed to give kobe and something cleveland failed to give lebron
@@eyitopeomotosho8129 MJ - Peak 3 years 3 - Championships (3-peat) 3 - Finals MVP 3 - Regular season MVP 3 - All star games 3 - All 1st Offensive Teams 3 - All 1st Defensive Teams 3 - Scoring Leader 2 - Steal Leader 3 - [AP] Athlete of the year 1 - [SI] Sportsperson of the year Lebron - Peak 3 years 2 - Championships 2 - Finals MVP 2 - Regular season MVP 3 - All star games 3 - All 1st Offensive Teams 3 - All 1st Defensive Teams Peak 6 years of each player in the playoffs: Jordan - 34.6ppg, 50.5% fg%, 35.7% 3pt%, 83.1% ft%, 6.7 reb per game, 6.6 ast per game, 2 steals per game, 1 block per game Lebron - 28.1ppg, 51.1% fg%, 34.4% 3pt%, 75.6% ft%, 7.7 reb per game, 7.3 ast per game,1.7 steals per game, 1 block per game Career Playoff Stats: Jordan - 33.6ppg, 6 reb, 6 ast, 48.1% fg%, 36.8% 3pt%, 80.6% ft% Lebron - 28.4ppg, 10.2 reb, 7.8 ast, 48.4% fg%, 35.2 3pt%, 73.1% ft% Top 100 Gamescore games of all time: MJ had 14 out of the 100 greatest gamescore games in nba history MJ owns the #1 greatest game ever played... the #7 greatest game ever played only 6 of the greatest games inside the top 50 14% of the greatest games ever played in the nba come from MJ Lebron had 3 out of the 100 greatest gamescore games in nba history lebron owns the 14th greatest game... the 44th greatest game ever played & the 80th greatest game ever played only 2 of greatest games inside the top 50 3% of the greatest games ever played in the nba come from Lebron Jordan Scoring: 30.1 regular season PPG(highest in NBA history) 33.4 playoff PPG(highest in NBA history) 33.6 NBA finals PPG(highest in NBA history) 8 games of 50+ points, 38 games of 40+ points, never scored under 15 points in a playoff game Lebron Scoring: 27 regular season PPG 28.7 playoff PPG 28.2 NBA finals PPG 1 game of 50+ points, 28 games of 40+ points, never scored under 7 points in a playoff game
@@loganerb3952 only 2 of greatest games inside the top 50 3% of the greatest games ever played in the nba come from Lebron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jordan Scoring: 30.1 regular season PPG(highest in NBA history) 33.4 playoff PPG(highest in NBA history) 33.6 NBA finals PPG(highest in NBA history) 8 games of 50+ points, 38 games of 40+ points, never scored under 15 points in a playoff game -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lebron Scoring: 27 regular season PPG 28.7 playoff PPG 28.2 NBA finals PPG 1 game of 50+ points, 28 games of 40+ points, never scored under 7 points in a playoff game Lots and lots of doubt🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@loganerb3952 MJ - Peak 3 years 3 - Championships (3-peat) 3 - Finals MVP 3 - Regular season MVP 3 - All star games 3 - All 1st Offensive Teams 3 - All 1st Defensive Teams 3 - Scoring Leader 2 - Steal Leader 3 - [AP] Athlete of the year 1 - [SI] Sportsperson of the year ---------------------------------------------- Lebron - Peak 3 years 2 - Championships 2 - Finals MVP 2 - Regular season MVP 3 - All star games 3 - All 1st Offensive Teams 3 - All 1st Defensive Teams
✌🏾 3 peats by MJ23 is waaaaay more impressive then what anything LBJ has done! That will never be done again! Therefore MJ23 is UNTOUCHABLE as the 🐐 ✊🏾💪🏾🖐🏾☝🏾
Jordan didn't play in 13 complete seasons. He played in 11 because he broke his foot his second year and then when he came back from retirement the first time he only played 17 games. So it's even more impressive when you put it that way
Let’s add more context, when he retired he finished 3rd. Only about 6000 plus points behind Kareem who played 20 seasons. Jordan literally accomplished the most in the less time
@@MikeBNumba6 its 13 why do yall always ignore the wizard years? because mj was washed? lebron is the same age right now as jordan was on the wizards. lebron fans arent ignoring these seasons cuz hes old.
I couldn't agree more. Excuse my expression I called it; Shannon is always riding Lebron dick so hard all the damn time. Sorry, that's just how I see it. I do believe Lebron is a great player definitely top ten player of all time. I would say he close to Jordan but not above Jordan. In my opinion Jordan is the Goat!!! If Lebron can get to more Championships than I would put him right near Jordan.
I just looked at the Bulls' stats from 1985-1990. My God, the torture, 1985: 1-3 loss to Bucks 1st round, 1986: 0-3 loss to Celtics 1st round, 1987: 0-3 loss to Celtics 1st round, 1988: 0-3 loss to Pistons 2nd round, 1989: 2-4 loss to Pistons ECF, 1990: 3-4 loss to Pistons ECF, 1991 beat the Pistons 4-0 in the ECF. That was special! It took Jordan 4 tries to decimate the Pistons, but he did it! Shannon is a bigot and should be ignored.
@@Lewise512 Bigot: a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction. Bigot Also means especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
Those two series losses to the Celtics can be forgiven, that 86 Celtics team is considered one of the best ever. Pistons were getting really good in those years as well. MJ was learning still, once he figured it out it was over.
FACTS..Which is why i I don’t watch The NBA .These guys play no fundamental ball ,no defense . The woman play more fundamental ball than the man pro & college.
Fun fact: If MJ had played the 1993-94 season and the entire 1994-95 season while averaging 30 a game, he would have had to put up fewer than 10 points a game between 1998 and 2001 to pass Kareem. In other words, had MJ only retired one time (in 2003), his career points would have been FAR north of 40k, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Yep...in his 2003 interview with John Thompson he said if he cared about stats, he would kept playing and passed Kareem. When he played, his main focus was on winning and not stats.
Yes, I just tried computing it. (correct this if I'm wrong) jordan only played 13 full seasons and yet he's 5th overall in the all-time scoring list. what if he played 20 seasons? he averaged 30.1 ppg his entire career and let's say he played 7 more seasons which is 82(games) x 7(season) = 574 games and multipy it by 30 points per game, the outcome would be 17,220. Jordan scored 32,292 and assuming the 7 seasons he might have scored more or less 49,512 overall points. That is the reason why all time scoring list can't make you the goat because it is more to longevity than your scoring skill.
When LBJ passed MJ scoring his team lost by 16 points When LBJ passed Kobe in scoring his team lost by 17 points When LBJ passed Malone in scoring his team lost by 16 points When LBJ passed Kareem in scoring his team lost by 3 points
@@tommygiordano5654 it don't matter melo is a prolific scorer I think he even has a scoring title . And every one thought they was going to get a ring . But Phil being the great coach he is tried running the triangle that 1. Melo anit buy into and the league was changing to a style where that offense is obsolete . Did Phil adjust or bump heads wit melo ?
@Mike Hawk As far as Doug Collins, the Bulls were getting closer to the Finals every year but they didn't win it when Phil coached in 1990 too. Also, don't forget about 1995. We know what happened there. But this all reminds me of when Mark Jackson was coaching the Warriors and then they bring an unknown Kerr (as far as coaching) in to take over the team Mark built. The Warriors were getting better and better every year under M. Jackson. Had Kerr taken that Knicks job instead, he wouldn't have won any rings and certainly not be considered a great coach.
Those buzzer beater stats for both guys were great. Proved that Jordan was more clutch when time was running out! And his finals wins vs losses completely settle this debate. Jordan is the GOAT! Period
It took Jordan 8 years to ascend to Finals level and once he did he only lost one series in the 95 year off his come back. Meanwhile LeBronda repeatedly quit on his team once he got to Finals level, swept multiple times and lost 6x versus winning 4. Jordan has never quit on his team by walking off the floor when his team down 30. A GOAT would never quit on his team. Recently LeBronda showed he’s all about himself by breaking all time scoring record then quits again and watches his team lose, when, if he is the so called scoring leader why didn’t he score and help team get the W? Cos he isnt the GOAT plain and simple. There never has been a debate cos truth be told Jordan is levels above LeBron. LeBron if being truthful isn’t even top 5 all time.
My All Time list: 1. MJ 2. Wilt 3. Russell 4. Magic 5. Abdul-Jabbar (top 3 peak All Time with MJ/wilt) 6. Bird 7. LeBronda 8. Hakeem 9. Shaq 10. Duncan (#11 Late Great Kobe)
I can think of at least 3 guys I’d rather have take the final shot over LeBron James: Kareem with his deadly skyhook, Bird who was the master of the half inch and Jordan who shot nearly the same from the field in the clutch versus any other time in the game. I saw a video where if you expand clutch shooting to the final two minutes of a game, MJ’s shooting percentage was still around 50% and LBJ’s was below 30%. That’s not even close!
Keep the clips coming bro. It seems like I always agree w what you say. I've watched the NBA religiously since the beginning of Jordan's career so I should know better. The only thing that could have made this clip better would have been if you showed the reaction of NBA players who played against both Jordan and Lebron when asked who is better.. All of em, their first reaction is to laugh lol. And who would know better than the pros that played against both? All of them are in agreement it's not even close. You should include that next time.
Watching Jordan play when I was child made me believe in the impossible. The world was a different place back then and I am forever blessed to have been able to watch his games during that time. Both Players are legends. One may be the GOAT. But MJ will forever be my champ.
Jordan did not win a single east conf championship until his 7th season, he simply could not beat Larry Legend. Jordan did not win much of anything until Magic and Bird were gone. As for Lebron, he is not even in the top 4 Lakers.
I remember MJ last NBA finals game when he cross Russell up I was 15 years old in my mind I said let see what MJ going do once he got the steal from K.Malone it felt like time stop in that moment yo for real
I think Bill Russell would agree...but not me, depends on the talent in the league at the time. And just like in Bill's day, there wasn't near the talent as in MJ's. And same goes for MJ, a lot more talent in the past 2 decades than in his era. MJ was still running around slow 7 foot white dudes....today, those 7 footers are shooting 3 pointers and defending guards. Big improvement in talent in level of competition. But keep that on the down low, ESPN might ban me.
@@chaximushoffman8102 hardly anybody plays defense anymore and Jordan would’ve had access to better training, nutrition, “supplements”, and load management like Lebron does now. Jordan was playing 18 holes of golf and then playing a game that night, or partying and gambling all night and showing up and dropping 52 points the next night. Great players are great in any era, because they do whatever it takes to be the best and have an insane desire to win. You put any great player in todays NBA with the access to todays sports nutrition, S&C, coaching, etc and they will still be great.
@@chaximushoffman8102 Let’s compare an era where it was considered a regular foul body slaming players in the paint, you must forgotten about the part where it was normal for your enforcers in the 80’s to purposely cause harm to anyone that tries to go to the hole. The mindset in the 80’s was you want to drive to the paint well you going to pay for it, just like how the NFL used to hardly throw in the MIDDLE because there is a going to be a head hunter looking to make it on Sports Center top ten highlights during the 90’s.
@@chaximushoffman8102no, they don't ban people who aren't affiliated with them. Plus it helps them look better when those same unaffiliated people have no clue as to what they're talking about. You're safe as a kitten
Outstanding video!! As usual Shannon Sharpe's entire argument in favor of LeBron and against Jordan is based 100% on emotion. As much as Skip tries to bring actual numbers and facts into the debate Shannon's only stance is feelings over facts. This is why he can't sustain a consistent argument, which by all accounts makes him the worst possible critic of who should be claimed the GOAT. Aside from the goat mask wearing and/or showing up in a LeBron jersey the most pathetic and embarrassing display of Shannon's obsession with LeBron was exchanging hostilities with Dillon Brooks. Shannon was the proverbial mother at the game who feels the need to defend her baby because someone on the other team is being mean to her sweet baby boy. Again, Shannon cannot be objective and no one should ever listen to him when it comes to the debate of Jordan versus LeBron. He lacks any and all integrity because he doesn't have the ability to detach his emotions. Skip is far from perfect and his takes can come across as being a hater but more often than not he takes the side of stats, facts and figures.
MJ was like watching a movie hero when he play...it seems like his shots were like perfectly coordinated...and you always knew he will come and save the day ..
I think it's important to remember that not only does LeBron have a longer NBA career than Jordan, so do the other three players that rank above him in scoring by at least four years. Clearly if Jordan would have put in the time that LeBron, Kareem, Malone and Kobe did he would have easily been a contender for that record but he got everything out of his career that he wanted earlier than them and retired after his 15th year. If you average it out Jordan actually has a high per/year scoring rating than Lebron so all-time scoring is not a great indicator of player ability. I don't think anyone would argue that Karl Malone was a better player than Jordan and yet he has more points on the board... with 19 years in.
Losing with everything left on the floor with no or little help and losing because of being outplayed/disappeared as the best player on the floor is totally different
Jordan's finesse game was way more fun to watch than LeBron's bully ball style of play. It's not fun watching someone beg for a foul every time they put up a shot.
Two things I think people overlook: 1. Jordan would’ve 8-peated had he not got dumb and tried to play baseball. 2. People talk a lot about how much help he got with Pippen. I’ll say Pippen didn’t win without Jordan and DWayne Wade won a championship without LeBron.
I like Bird's approach to the game! He wasn't trying to play on no team with no other superstar! They were the enemy! Athletes got along back then but they weren't no buddy buddy in the off season! They were very serious! MJ had to go through guys with this mentality! That's a big difference as well! Respect to the GOAT!
@@Screwface115 Bill Russell needs a toe to wear all his Championship Rings at once. Bird was a better rebounder than Jordan, a better passer than Jordan, just as good a shooter as Jordan, a better free throw shooter than Jordan and people don't even realize that Bird's defensive win rating is better than Jordan's. Wilt Chamberlain was a champion hurdler, a champion long jumper and he never lost a high jump competition ever. These things are what a crack free mind can know. Lol.
Hands down Jordan. It's not even close. None whatsoever. Jordan was a walking highlight reel. Not just a play here or there. He played entire games with such intensity. He just didn't stop.
Skip is the worst MJ debater on TV. But MJ game is soooooo astonishing that skip Bayless still wins the debates. 😂 He allows Shannon to tell the biggest lies ever. Like Phil was the greatest coach ever. I've heard people (like Bird) say MJ was the best player ever before a Ring and Phil coaching him. Who in the Heck said Phil was the best coach ever before MJ???? Eazy work. MJ/Ali are da Goats of Alllllllll sports.
Skip clearly been throwing GOAT debates ever since LeBron went to LA. Clearly ESPN wants to sell the turd LeBron package for profit. Skip is decent on most topics, then mysteriously rolls over in GOAT debates for years now.
Best ever doesn't mean played for 20 years near the top... Being the best ever is having the highest peak. It means that at the time of his peak( which Jordans was when he first retired but even so take 91-93) means that at that point there is no other player past or present that can match him. Jordan at his peak was the ultimate competitor and moreover the point is to score points and stop the other team from scoring and he was the best at both
@@skettinbutter3635 yooo what 😂 literally no one who watches basketball seen bill russell play 🤦🏼♂️ rip that man but cmon bro modern era .. only person w more is robert horry and he 7-0
Like MJ said it's his fault that he made this generation think it's all about flash and not the fire from the hard work he did. Also as Kobe said if you aint got the ring job's not finish...
Kobe got it much easier then LJ and MJ. 1 He was a privileged kid, 2. He was lucky to play as a sidekick to Shaq , when Ahaq was on his prime. 3. He was also very fortunate to have Phil Jackson to coach him even though and I quote Phil " he was uncountable". during his beginning years.
@@andyreid6869 that’s an amazing feat that will never be equaled, props to him for that. To add context to it, they only had a total of 8 teams when he started his career & only 14 by the time he retired.
MJ - Peak 3 years 3 - Championships (3-peat) 3 - Finals MVP 3 - Regular season MVP 3 - All star games 3 - All 1st Offensive Teams 3 - All 1st Defensive Teams 3 - Scoring Leader 2 - Steal Leader 3 - [AP] Athlete of the year 1 - [SI] Sportsperson of the year Lebron - Peak 3 years 2 - Championships 2 - Finals MVP 2 - Regular season MVP 3 - All star games 3 - All 1st Offensive Teams 3 - All 1st Defensive Teams Peak 6 years of each player in the playoffs: Jordan - 34.6ppg, 50.5% fg%, 35.7% 3pt%, 83.1% ft%, 6.7 reb per game, 6.6 ast per game, 2 steals per game, 1 block per game Lebron - 28.1ppg, 51.1% fg%, 34.4% 3pt%, 75.6% ft%, 7.7 reb per game, 7.3 ast per game,1.7 steals per game, 1 block per game Career Playoff Stats: Jordan - 33.6ppg, 6 reb, 6 ast, 48.1% fg%, 36.8% 3pt%, 80.6% ft% Lebron - 28.4ppg, 10.2 reb, 7.8 ast, 48.4% fg%, 35.2 3pt%, 73.1% ft% Top 100 Gamescore games of all time: MJ had 14 out of the 100 greatest gamescore games in nba history MJ owns the #1 greatest game ever played... the #7 greatest game ever played only 6 of the greatest games inside the top 50 14% of the greatest games ever played in the nba come from MJ Lebron had 3 out of the 100 greatest gamescore games in nba history lebron owns the 14th greatest game... the 44th greatest game ever played & the 80th greatest game ever played only 2 of greatest games inside the top 50 3% of the greatest games ever played in the nba come from Lebron Jordan Scoring: 30.1 regular season PPG(highest in NBA history) 33.4 playoff PPG(highest in NBA history) 33.6 NBA finals PPG(highest in NBA history) 8 games of 50+ points, 38 games of 40+ points, never scored under 15 points in a playoff game Lebron Scoring: 27 regular season PPG 28.7 playoff PPG 28.2 NBA finals PPG 1 game of 50+ points, 28 games of 40+ points, never scored under 7 points in a playoff game
Hard to know how great Jackson actually was. He’s had 4 of the top 50, 3 of top 30, 2 of top 10, and the unrivaled GOAT on his team. Certainly a great coach, but hard to say his players didn’t make him.
Truth. Hell back when the original NBA top 50 came out, Rodman was on it too. He technically had 5 of the top 50 when he was on the lakers with MJ, Pip, Rodman, Shaq, Kobe. Arguably he has 3 of the top 10 too with MJ, Shaq, Kobe (depending on people's lists).
One thing that may not have been mentioned is, maybe Lebron has more late game clutch shots than Michael, but that would also include how many times the Bulls did not NEED a clutch shot to actually win a game!
Lebron got swept by the Spurs 0-4 in the 2007 nba finals, Swept by GSW 0-4 in the 2018 nba finals, Swept by the Denver Nuggets 0-4 in the 2023 nba west finals. Lebron 6 losses in the nba finals. These are all FACTS.
I’m not even the biggest Jordan stan, but the fact that dude is 6-0 in NBA Finals with 6 FMVP says it all. Even super dominant players like Shaq and Wilt couldn’t string together 6 seasons where they were as dominant. Shaq had his stretch where he went 3-0 in Finals with 3 FMVPs, but then fell off afterwards. So even peak Shaq could only accomplish half of what Jordan did in the postseason.
Not if you watched The Last Dance. Phil brought in the Native American philosophies that changed their perspectives on teamwork. He helped Jordan trust his teammates more when he said "Do you wanna average 40 or do you wanna win?" Not the exact quote but close to it. Jordan, Pippen, and Phil. All-time great basketball trio.
@@jordanjenkins1671 Jordan was still winning those titles regardless who coach was as long as he just had Pip, not to take nothing from Phil but Jordan was still winning those titles with or without Phil
Jordan simply never learned to lose after he figured out how to win. Jordan rarely had an off night scoring. Jordan only had two HOF teammates, and only one of them came as a free agent.
8:21 I hate Shannon bru…he gon say allat like the thunder didn’t beat the lakers…regardless of lebron breaking the record, the team still lost but no one talks about that😂😂Shannon a goofy
Not only did they lose, but they're likely not even going to make the free play in for the 2nd year in a row. Imagine if Jordan had 2 other 1st round hall of famers on his team, they added the play in back in his day, and he missed it twice in a row. Lebron fans would latch onto that like a fly on sh*t. Instead when they miss the play in for the 2nd time, they will overlook it and just say he broke the points record... with 4400 more 3 point attempts than Kareem's career 18.
Bigs rarely contested LeBron when he had a head full of steam. Because of that, the only high-profile poster dunks he ever had were on old-school elite defenders Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. But the poster on little Jason Terry is the one that gets all the views 😆
@@jordanjenkins1671 there are hardly any bigs in today's NBA and the rule changes have the paint wide open, so he's benefitted hugely because he can't shoot for shit and statistically 67% of his FGs made are from 0-3 feet. Ledicklicks are oblivious to these non casual basketball analysis .
@@khayotikk1 even when Jordan was playing like or close to LeBron in 1989 when he was the point guard for half the season his dunks and layups were still contested
Yep...MJ even said he had to choose between Dean Smith and Phil Jackson, he would choose Dean because that's where he learned the fundamentals. When he played with Phil, he already knew all of that stuff and more.
Jordan in Finals games 24-11 (6-0) Lebron in Finals games 22-33 (4-6) So in the most important games possible, Jordan ACCOMPLISHED more in 35 games than Lebron did in 55 games, and with less help. -Not to mention, in 5/6 of Lebron's Finals L's, HIS MAN WON FINALS MVP!!!! (Iggy, Kawhi, Durant x3)
A lot of us grew up having seen none of Muhammad Ali's fights live. But we all know he is the Goat. Same applies to Jordan. There are just athletes that are set and stoned to be great. Jordans shoe will continue to be loved. His legacy will continue to live on a long with his amazing legacy of his rings, performances and impact.
Tyson comes close but I think Ali takes it just cause he had more integrity. Ali would never bite an opponent. But Rocky was undefeated and only him throughout boxing history so idk for sure of Ali is an undisputed goat.
Lol. You named a bunch of fuckin b tier at best players while lebron has played with that same number of a level players and doesn’t have shit in Jordan. Mainly because lebron can’t play team basketball.
From Sharp’s logic Robert Horry is the goat…. He won seven championships with three different teams … who cares if he wasn’t the best player on any of those teams … he also 3peated with the Lakers … that’s it Big Shot Rob is the GoAT 🐐!!! 🤣
Shannon said LeBron has been in three different systems…. All 3 were the LeBron James system LOL
Thank you!!!!!!!! Shannon just lies
Literally identical
All except miami cause pat Riley wasnt haven't that shit
System = LeBron holding/dribbling the entire shot clock then jacking awkward step back 3 or firing late awkward pass to guys not really open (Korver)
Exactly. Lying through his horse teeth.
Shannon: All that matters is whether you win or lose!
Lebron 4-6 in finals
Jordan 6-0 in finals
Ok Shannon, you just said that Jordan was better. Confirmed.
@Mike Hawk nah he has Bron as the GOAT
I still don't count the bubble chip
MJ is goat but then what is bill Russell? 11 rings in 13 years
I mean LBJ can go to the Finals without a 2nd star thou, MJ can't get past the first round with Scottie
@Dew Man bills era was completely different than todays nba
There never was a debate...MJ has been the goat and remains the goat.
“There’s MJ, and then there’s everyone else”
Scottie Pippen did disagree
Larry bird
@@lancemurdoc6744 pippen averaged 15 to 20 ppg in all of his nba finals appearances mj averaged over 30 mj is the main reason for the bulls championships go look at the 1998 nba finals mjs supporting cast of pippen, Rodman, longley, Harper combined gave mj a total of 30 points pippen averaged 15 Rodman 5 Longley 5 Harper 5 mj averaged 33 ppg in 2018 kyrie Irvin and Kevin love just two players gave lebron a total of 43 ppg that's 13 more ppg from lebrons supporting cast than mjs entire starting lineup supporting cast averaged kyrie averaged 27 love averaged 16 ppg despite lebron having more help than mj did lebron still lost next time you speak of this garbage as if pippen carried Jordan first go do some research and see the truth and not the lie like you're spewing
@@lancemurdoc6744 1998 NBA finals combined Jordan's whole supporting cast gave him 55 ppg lebrons big 3 in 2018 of himself kyrie and love combined scored 70 ppg the whole entire bulls team scored 88 ppg that's only 18 more ppg lebrons big 3 scored more than lebrons big 3 scored of lebron who averaged 27 ppg kyrie 27 ppg love 16 ppg that's 70 ppg from 3 players to mjs whole team 88 ppg out of the 88 ppg mj scored 33 of them despite lebron having more help he still lost despite mj literally having no help statistically the 1998 team was just as bad as the lebrons cavs finals team that he lost with that he supposedly brought to the finals by himself they averaged 1 less ppg than the 98 bulls did
Magic said that quote
Shannon's argument helps make the case for Jordan's goatness.
What greatness you're talking about MJ who didn't win anything until Phil Jackson got there yet LeBron has won in every system
@@jonathanbrown9018 Hello Jonathan! You’re not old enough to have an account here. Please talk to your parents about breaking our rules. /TH-cam
@@jonathanbrown9018 You mean he left every time things got difficult. That sounds like winning in every system. And Phil Jackson is the most overrated coach of all times.
@@jonathanbrown9018 what systems are you talking about, they are all the same lebron system ... Every time he moved, he set the same system but different people around him ...
@@xerxesllabore LeBron isn't a coach
MJ made everyone believe they can fly. LBJ made everyone believe they can win chips by moving to another team.
And stacking them like crazy too!
MJ made me want to be a Ball player and BRON has made me well not care about Ball ever again
😂😂😂
Lebron thought he can fly too that's why he always jumps on the floor and flops
This would have been better if you said LBJ made everyone believe they can fly to another team.
There are many dumb arguments for LeBron being the GOAT, but acting like moving to different teams is better than creating a dynasty with one team is extremely idiotic to me.
The "LeBron is GOAT" club.. I think they all started watching NBA in 2011. And none of them know what they're even watching.
☝🏽 included in this is are the 40 year old black males who were Locked up during the 90s. They don't know the sport
@Ocean Lives why do you think Kareem is the goat?
He moved to a different team because they were younger. Like he said bulls dealt with injuries and they had the oldest team in the league and still won. Lebron didn't want to deal with that and just left.
@@oceanlives4915 so the only way people don't have Kareem as the GOAT IS because of Nike and the media? Did they make up Jordan's accomplishments?
@@adi_2 for sure. And joined up with two top superstars in the league at the time in their primes. Lebrons time in Cleveland showed he was unable to make his teammates better.
Jordan dealt with the growing pains and allowed the team to gel around him. He didn’t need his team to make constant trades and upgrades. He didn’t need to join two top players in their primes just because Detroit had his number for a few years.
That is one of the main reason I have jordan above lebron.
These guys always assume Phil Jackson came to the Bulls as a Hall of Fame coach. His stock in the NBA rose with the acension of Michael.
THANK YOU!!
Exactly! Phil Jackson became a great coach as the Bulls ascended, and MJ made that happen, much like Bill Belichick ascended as a head coach as Tom Brady developed. Those player/coach relationships rose to greatness together! Jordan was ready when Phil Jackson got there.
They do the same with Scottie. It took three years for Scottie to develop and we know darn well LeBron ain't got the patience like that
@@seanswinton6242 brady a an average QB who was saved his whole career lol... Jordan saved others careers
@@subzero308 How was he saved his whole career? You're literally making no sense whatsoever.
The point you're responding to is relevant and actually makes sense...... yours doesn't.
Jordan accomplished everything in his career in 11 1/2 seasons with the bulls. The half comes from his return from baseball and the year he broke his foot if you combine those two you basically have about a half season. So in that timeframe
6 titles
6 finals MVP’s
5 mvps
10 scoring titles
3 times leading the league in steals
Multiple seasons of 200 steals and 100 blocks
DPOY
3 time all star game mvp
9x nba all defense
11x all nba
Also rookie of the year
I’m sure I’m missing stuff but just think this was all done in 11 1/2 seasons with the bulls and Lebron is still playing catch-up in his 20th season.
I couldn't have that better L.M.A.O
What’s more impressive; beating the juggernaut 1 of 4 times you face them in the finals? Or BIENG the juggernaut again, and again, and again, then doing it again, and again, and again. This dichotomy always put the goat debate in an effective context.
I see you saw the greatest GOAT debate. Nobody can argue with the facts laid out in that video
Yep, this video you referring to, is cult-classic right now.
lebron didn't beat the juggernaut. Let me ask would Klay, Green, and whoever was in that team in 2015~2016 warrior make them a super team if you remove Curry? if the answer is no. Are you guys insinuating that Curry alone is the Juggernaut? if no. what made the GSW a Juggernaut when bron beat them?
@@shade0180 because LeBron _himself_ called the 2016 Warriors "the Greatest Team of All Time"
@@youboob6297 So why is it the greatest team of all time? if you remove curry are you saying curry alone is above lebron james? As his impact made the GSW the greatest of all time because it definitely ain't klay nor green and even if we remove Klay and Green as long as we leave curry on it it is still a great team. Is Lebron in the belief Curry is above him for him to call the GSW the Greatest of all time?
After all the endless debates with LeBron fans and the way they talk about Pippen I have come to the conclusion that Pippen should be ranked higher than LeBron
"MJ won because of Pippen and Phil!"
For sure! But let's not act like Pippen was the 2006 FMVP before joining the Bulls, or the #1 pick from Duke or Kentucky. Pippen was from a very small college and he developed with time. Bulls took a chance on him and didn't trade him away just because he wasn't an All-Star his first few seasons.
And let's not act like Phil had been even coaching in the NBA and winning championships before he got the head coach job in Chicago. He was coaching in an overseas league.
Phil and Pippen had to prove themselves. And they combined really well with MJ.
@@jordanjenkins1671 wow i guess phil and Pippen shot the ball for Jordan a lot mj won because of theses two, amazing i thought there was a team but wow 3 people and one was a coach. they won because they were a team
Phil's the luckiest coach in history he benefited from having superstars like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, and Pau.
BASED
"Air Pippen" is how I remembered life in the 90s...
@@jordanjenkins1671 who cares about being a finals mvp? or a number 1 pick? all that means nothing. Andre Iguadala was a Finals MVP. KWame Brown was a first pick. what matters is that scottie pippen was in the mvp race in 1994 and wwas always on the first team all defense. lebron never had a first team defender on his team
“Who gets credited for losing ? “ literally Lebrun does 😭😭😭
Shannon Sharpe would be embarrassingly easy to lay waste to in a debate. Lebron quit a 61-win Cavs, a 54-win Heat, and a 50-win Cavs all after being destroyed in the playoffs (2x in the Finals). He fled all of those situations to go and join better players and make winning easier. Achieving a dynasty takes guts, mental fortitude, and the perseverance to repeatedly rise to the challenge of expectations and being the biggest target in the league. Lebron chose to circumvent the spirit of competition and run to greener pastures rather than endure. Shannon also lied and said Lebron won in 3 different systems. Every "system" eventually became The Lebron System and to date, 84 trades have been made since Summer 2010 to support The Lebron System. Shannon saying that the only thing that matters in Club Shay-Shay is "did you win or lose" is cap of the highest order. He and every Lebron fanatic like him deflect, spin, and twist narrative to disarm Lebron's many losses and failures as much as humanly possible. Shannon is as fraudulent as the so-called goat argument.
People need to read your second sentence again because that really is the issue. Everyone likes to dump on those Cavs teams, but record wise they were the best team in the NBA.
We didn't see Giannis or Dirk quitting and leaving after they got stomped in the playoffs multiple times. When Jordan was getting smoked in the playoffs we didn't see him leave either. Same with Kobe.
Lebron to this date is the only guy we have rated as an all time Great that leaves when things get tough.
Going to ten straight finals. Yall don't think players like Jordan could have done that had he joined the pistons in his prime and then leave to the Lakers with Magic after Isiah broke his wrist?
@@MikeBNumba6 EXACTLY! Lebron chose to quit & run and seek out shortcuts where other players on his level ALL ENDURED. This alone to me, disqualifies him from the goat argument, not to mention, a ton of other things.
@@MikeBNumba6 they were only had 60 wins because of lebron and nothing else, when lebron left, the cavs didn’t even reach 20 wins 😭😭
@@b.g.4266 literally everyone would of left that shit ass cavs team don’t even, jordan’s had it easy being drafted by a team with a competent front office unlike lebron
@@user-sd2gv8vz8fsome other players left too you know not just LeBron
Jordan's moves still give chills when you watch them!!
Watch the GOAT SZN highlights on Maxamillion's channel if you haven't yet. Too good.
His Gracefulness...
@@Mjumbojetpresdent thanks
Michael never face Player who shot 3's from the logo. Michael never face 7ft guys who could shot like guards. Michael had Help from Kukoc, Pippen, Kerr, Rodman, Harper and Longley. Michael was great, but also his Swad. There is no such thing like a GOAT.
MJ wasn't the best shooter MJ was that best at scoring points. 3s or 2s is irrelevant what matter who can make the most points at the end of the day.
The hilarious part is when Shannon argued with Tony Gonzalez he brought up his 3 rings and now championships don't matter 😂😂😂😂
He got upset because they called tony the best TE of all time to introduce him.
Shannon just thinks that if he yells his opinion and mean mugs you, then nobody will notice all the bullshit that's actually being spoken. 🤣 ESPN hires so many dipshits, it's crazy! 🤣
Well they aren’t lying about Tony being a GOAT.
Or the clip that showed Shannon Sharpe against the Memphis grizzles
He said who gets credit for losing but keeps bringing up Lebron has been to finals 10x and only winning 4 lmaoo. That double standard
Very well said
True...they will say LeBron (individual) has been to 10 Finals but because he lost more than he won, they will say it's a team sport. They have to make up their minds.
Shannon is a good analyst, but he needs to let go of brons balls with that goat sht. The reason I got Bron #2 instead of goat is that he lost a few of those finals that Jordan would have easily won, especially against that Old ass Mavs squad his first finals trip with Miami, no way Jordan would have lost to that team with a still prime d wade and Bosh by his side, and heat was favored to win that one
@@dajuanhackett5332 We wouldnt even be having him in GOAT conversation if he didnt jump from super team after another.
@@mequibal hell I'm not sure he ever wins a chip if he doesn't leave CLE the first go round.
The 6-0 with 6 finals MVPs is crazy.
Every single time MJ went to the finals he not only won but was the MVP.
@@ex1dia876 Only goofy Bron fans think you can make a goat case by who he went 1-8 against in 2 finals!! 😂😂😂 Bron has had more help than any other player....even in Miami he could only go .500...with 2 other top ten players!! Ridiculous
@@rightfulone2597 They act like the teams that Jordan went against were absolute trash. Any of those teams that Jordan faced in the finals would absolutely dominate today.
@@fredjones4782 Exactly...they make goat cases off of Durant and Curry...How does getting absolutely obliterated, make a case for being the goat?!! Everytime they knock Jordan's its early in his career....the knocks on Bron are all throughout his career. Kudos to him for knowing he couldn't get it done and needed all star teammates 😂😂
Not to mention Jordan never went to a game seven in the finals
@@rightfulone2597 The fact that they can only use the beginning of his career as a knock against him shows that they know they can’t argue against Jordan’s legacy as the 🐐!
I love Lebron, but each time I watch MJ I''m reminded he was literally out of this world.
EXACLY!!!!!!
Kobe > Bron easy
Yup….I wanted my Lakers - and Magic - to beat him SO badly in 1991, but DAMN he was too good.
And yes, Lebron is a GREAT player….but MJ was….something I’d never, and still haven’t seen. The elephant in the room I HAVE to address is the “Shannon Sharpe” argument : the, “Well, Jordan got swept 3 times between 1985 - 1987”, which is a fact….but ignores one important detail :
…Jordan was either the best or tied for the best player in almost EVERY series he played in…
Let that sink in : in 86 & 87, MJ is a 2nd and 3rd year player, going H2H with one of the greatest ever - Bird - who’s in the process of winning 3 straight MVPs, and MATCHING him. In fact the ‘87 series doesn’t get talked about enough…’86 has his 63 point game and he averages almost 44 ppg, but the bulls lose Games 1 & 3 by an average of 19 points…in ‘87, he averages 35/7/6/2/2 (😗!) and the average of the losses goes down to 8!
…and the only difference was that they lost Orlando Woolridge…they got WORSE talent wise! 🤷🏾♂️
My point is that THIS is what separates MJ from the rest of the pack : it’s not in the wins, it’s in the LOSSES….he’s NEVER had a shit playoff series…even in the Comeback in ‘95 - despite getting stripped in Game 1 - he’s still the best offensive player in that series (maybe not the best player), so even at his worst, he’s still on a different plane.
Whereas with Kobe, Lebron, and others, I can point to multiple times where they didn’t show up.
DR J said it best , no player that has to go to different cities where super teams are bought for quick rings can be in any conversation about being the best period .
Jordan had 6 rings in 15 seasons, 6 Finals MVP, 5x NBA MVP, 2 x Slamdunk champion, 10 scoring titles, 9x NBA All Defense 1st team in an era with hand checking and limited 3s. Jordan didn't leave Bulls to play with other stars for a chip. In fact, there were no other stars save maybe Charles Oakley in his early Bulls years. Horace Grant, Scottie Pippen, Toni Kukoc grew into stars playing alongside Jordan. Dennis Rodman was the only star I remembered brought in to beef the team up after Horace got traded. I give LeBron credits for playing 20 seasons and surpassing Kareem in scoring but to crown him GOAT? Please. Pffft...
Rodman was no longer considered a star. Spurs gave away. MJ told Rodman… all I need you to do is play defense and rebound.
They literally picked up 4 guys from other teams😂
Kerr Harper Rodman and kukoc..😂
That’s just good GM work. No one’s fault. Most of those guys came late 80s/early 90s so that’s 4-5 years of Jordan being in the league. The cavs draft picks after lebron were trash.
And you definitely reaching with that "star" shit...lol Oakley, Kukoc and Horace Grant were not stars at all..
LeBron’s been to more championships but factor in his calculated moving around to franchises he felt were already in good contention to win the title. Jordan was the keystone in Chicago for a decade and a half, and after all the work and coming up short, he never lost a championship series.
Jordan retired for 2 years and the Bulls were not the same. He came back and they win three straight.
@@ryanwalker9378 You misspelled "retired". It's Jordan "Played another professional sport at the highest level" for 2 years...😂
He didn't have to leave...the NBA and the Bulls brought all the talent to him. Before the talent arrived, he couldn't get past the 2nd round.
@@ryanwalker9378 exactly
@@chaximushoffman8102 Jordan couldn't get past the second round because he played against bird and his 3 other hall of fame teammates birds supporting cast scored 354 points during the series to mjs supporting cast 154 so next time you speak of something speak within context of why Jordan couldn't get past the second round not because of jordan because of his lack of scoring production from his teammates vs birds amazing scoring production from his teammates and stop going with the bs narrative to discredit mj mj had bums as his teammates bird had allstars that's the difference who did mj have David Corzine to birds McHale, parish, ainge?
LeBron didn't want to be coached by anyone. LeBron wanted to run everything.
That mfer is the coach, GM, scout, Team President, Concession stand worker and still has a losing Finals records lol.
Also all the milestones he has accomplished has come in a loss. Lol, he has no clutch gene in his entire body.
LeCoach.
So did Jordan, So did Bird, and a lot of others in the nba you could name. And remember Phil Jackson. It’s because of Mike Jordan he became head coach in Chicago!
How Lebron fans really feel. I went to one of their secret meetings. It went like this. “ there’s no way Lebron is going to catch MJ in rings, MVP, and FMVP. We need something to elevate our king to goat status. Him winning in 2016 vs 2 3 peats is starting to sound ridiculous even to Bronsexuals” “ I got it. Our king is fast approaching the all time scoring record. We will overhype that record and act like is the end all of basketball” “ brilliant Shannon “ shut your mouth we’re supposed to use code names Nick” This will be it because our king is incapable of winning. He didn’t even make the play in last year with a good roster” “ Ok let’s go on tv and sell this BS to our viewers” Based on a true story no cap
I believe you cuz you know the main people leading this meeting
@@malcolmhodnett8874 he is anonymous on youtube. _he can be anybody_
All fax bro. ESPN and Wall Street been trying to sell LeBron since 2005.
There's "less" money they could make off MJ, so his legacy needed to be ignored and destroyed.
☝🏽 This is why Skip gives less than half an effort in GOAT debates. Not even worth watching Shannon allowed to spread Fake News with no effort from Skip
Lmao, Kendrick Perkins was the door man guarding the meeting.
Damn you described everything to a T🤣🤣🤣💪🏾💯💯
"Who in the hell get credit for losing?!" - Shannon Sharpe How ironic... 🤔
6x Loser in Finals Lebron 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Lebron just proved he was just statpadding to get that longevity record, now he's "injured" and probably will remain injured till all star weekend and magically will be in shape to play again, why? Because he needs the praise and will try to win all star MVP since it's the only award he can win
Smh. His shot to pass Kareem came on his typical super awkward step back. So ugly to watch this guy. Can't wait til he retires.
Sports r all rigged and scripted they're for entertainment only
💯
lebron cant even be injured yall act like this nigga is superman. yall act like human bodies dont heal with time
@Robin agreed. Idk why they mad about him resting. It's year 20.
- he's nowhere close to MJ tho, bc he left his defense in Miami. Stopped winning MVPs and #1 playoff seeds.
The worst thing about history is how quickly it is forgotten. I've had the pleasure of seeing both MJ and LeBron play from the beginning of their careers to the end (Lebron's future end) and I've seen too many occasions where LeBron has given up on plays, given up on his team, slacked off on defense, taken off games when he wasn't injured and etc. I can't say the same for MJ. And not to say that MJ is perfect and haven't had bad games, but his desire to win and his ability to push his teammates to win (despite his tactics) and what he's done on the court, MJ is without question the G.O.A.T
EXACTLY!!!! The 2011 Finals doesn't go down like that if it was MJ in LeBron's place. Then again MJ wasn't going to another man's team to win either.
I have also and even seen him quit twice! Against Celts, Warriors. I didn't even bother to watch the Dallas finals series -- I heard he quit there.
And when Miami lost he moved to Cleveland where his return meant they have their 4 number one draft picks in one place, although he chase Wiggins out of town. He returned because that clear easy road to follow. Not hearing crap about bringing a chip home. that team had tools!
@@jlmusic1469 he did it when he got the scoring title as well 😂😂 he sat out after, because they were losing
There is no debate, period.
Basketball is a 2 way sport is it not?
Please tell me, at what point has LeBron EVER been the BEST offensive AND defensive player in the league?
MJ was twice, undisputed, recorded 200 steals and 100 blocks. 1 of ONLY 3 to EVER do it...
Not only did he do it, he is the ONLY person to do it TWICE... oh! While averaging 30 ppg...
The legit ONLY thing LeBron had on MJ is rebounding. LeBron is much bigger so if he isn't a better rebounded then that'd be sad lol.
I'm tired of hearing "LeBron is a GREAT passer", BULLSHIT. LeBron is a "willing" passer not a "great" passer. The guy is barely top 4 in assists and has literally 1000s of turnovers more than ALL of the people ahead of him...
MJ had a higher usage% and had a better assists to turnover ratio... which most people who know ball would say off sheer numbers... Jordan was a better passer...
There is no debate...
The only person to even step next to mike in the GOAT convo is Wilt...
And that's it.
>The worst thing about history is how quickly it is forgotten
Oh, now Jordan fans know what it's like whenever they wave off Bill Russell winning more rings and getting more finals than Jordan? Or how they insist that Kareem was boring and Wilt was just a big man who scored a lot?
I want to know how many titles MJ would have if he "took his talents" to L.A. to play with Magic, then joined forces with Ewing in NY, then bolted for Phoenix so he could team up with his buddy Charles, and then finally forced team-ownership to re-work the roster to bring more A-list players to his team so he could avoid developing his own team?
Wait a minute!!!! Where have I seen this before... oh thats LeBron James whole c😂areer..😮
@@arielmunoz9835😂😂😂😂😂
Also, in 89 the Pistons were the reigning world champions with the best record in the NBA.. when Miami lost with Lebron, their team was the favorite but they lost!
No they werent world champions, they were US champions, only the US participates so it has nothing to do with being world champions.
@@stephannielsen4177 it’s safe to assume their the world champions when you play in the best league in the world. What champion in other countries would beat the NBA champion lol? Answer is no one.
@@stephannielsen4177 Whatever
Lebron and the Cavs were favorites in 08, 09 and 10 also
@@ERizzo5 such a typical American way to look at things, but im not surprised, its so sad.
Awesome video. My best takeaway is when you said "Shannon compares jordan to perfection, but compares LeBron to jordan". That.. to me.. is the end of the debate. Beautifully said and thank you
Imagine LeFlop try and play against the 80s Pistons or 90s Knicks. He'd literally cry in the game and leave.
He'd get a concussion from one of his 3 minute interpretive dance flops gone bad, get she'll shocked and keep living the same non foul over in his head day after day after day.
The Basketball Diaries on the Western Front.
Larry birds Celtics would have broken him first and he would never have been able to recover and get to play the pistons.
He would dominate he would have grown up used to contact. His size and speed would have dominated back then lol. I love the 80s and 90s but I know lebron would have dominated and I can't stand lebron.
@@charlespendley6360 how can he dominate when he doesnt hsve the heart or balls. The biggest factor people leave out.
@Charles Pendley He'd be swept in EVERY. SINGLE. SERIES. Period. LeBron would get stomped in that era. He might win a few playoff games in his prime but that's it.
Jordan made Phil Jackson a house hold name
“Y’all guys found a way to romanticise losing” the most ironic statement by a lebron fan
I know right. :D They are romanticising his 6 finals losses all day everyday...Lebron did everything he could his team mates were bad! :D
Remember at club Shay Shay when you lose don't cry about help!
Romantic goat 4-6
Hahaha 🤣 you're a genius,Facts
Jordan lost too 😂, just not in the finals… but before the finals 😂.
MJ is the goat! No weakness in every aspect of the game.
Except not being a team player...or he may have went to the Finals even more.
@@chaximushoffman8102
😂😂😂
Shannon once said that MJ didn’t do anything before Pippen except put up stats since he was losing early in the playoffs…so the question for Shannon is what is LBJ doing now besides putting up stats? By Shannon’s logic, LBJ is doing at the tail end of his career what MJ was doing at the beginning of his
The flaw in your logic is that stat padding at the age of 38 is unheard of in the NBA, the mere fact that LBJ can still stat pad in that age, MJ can't even stat pad when he was in Wizards hahahaha
@@MrLoverboy6565 mj doesnt stat pad because he doesnt care about stats
Great point!
@@MrLoverboy6565 who's dumb to say that MJ is stat padding during his early years? he's hard carrying 4 fools to playoffs before Pippen came.
Lebron wasn't doing anything either. He was losing as well, until he went to Miami. Free riding the weakest East in NBA history to lose to the West every. single. time. isn't an accomplishment. Lebron is technically playing solid ball right now, but somehow they're 13th seed with an actual good team. There's no one in the world that thinks they should be basically dead last with their squad (the bottom 2 teams are awful and probably trying to throw for potential VW draft)
Just imagine if MJ had stomped his feet in hissy fits over wanting to team up with let's say Barkely, Olajuwon, Bird, Malone or Isiah. Talk about 10 chips at least...
he had scottie pippen who was a better fit than any of em and a better defender. yall keep acting like jordan played with bums his whole career like hes allen iverson
@@RobinXlone On the other side Jordan haters act like Pippen came in the league averaging 28-6-5 like Jordan did as a rookie. Pippen as a rookie bench guy in 88 averaged 8ppg and 3rpg but folks act like he's why Jordan was MVP, DPOY, and got out of the first round. Pippen wasn't a bum but he had to develop as a player and he was able to because he never had the pressure of being The Alpha of The Bulls that was Jordan. We never talk about how Jordan helped Pippen it's always made out to look like only Jordan benefitted from their partnership.
@@RobinXlone lol pippen was drafted and had to develop… he wasn’t allstar from the get go…
@@joshuawilliams7653 just like nobody talks about how lebron helped wade, helped kyrie and help anthony davis. because they are the leaders of the team we talk about how they benefitted from the help
@@kitdman5749 so what? they were together for 4 years before winning. and then pippen was all defensive. jordan had no reason to leave. the bulls got him help. something la failed to give kobe and something cleveland failed to give lebron
Jordan’s resume is impeccable, very hard to compete with the closest thing we’ve seen to perfection in basketball
Imagine if Jordan didn't retire in his prime for almost 2 seasons. This wouldn't even be an argument
But he did.
@@eyitopeomotosho8129 MJ - Peak 3 years
3 - Championships (3-peat)
3 - Finals MVP
3 - Regular season MVP
3 - All star games
3 - All 1st Offensive Teams
3 - All 1st Defensive Teams
3 - Scoring Leader
2 - Steal Leader
3 - [AP] Athlete of the year
1 - [SI] Sportsperson of the year
Lebron - Peak 3 years
2 - Championships
2 - Finals MVP
2 - Regular season MVP
3 - All star games
3 - All 1st Offensive Teams
3 - All 1st Defensive Teams
Peak 6 years of each player in the playoffs:
Jordan - 34.6ppg, 50.5% fg%, 35.7% 3pt%, 83.1% ft%, 6.7 reb per game, 6.6 ast per game, 2
steals per game, 1 block per game
Lebron - 28.1ppg, 51.1% fg%, 34.4% 3pt%, 75.6% ft%, 7.7 reb per game, 7.3 ast per game,1.7
steals per game, 1 block per game
Career Playoff Stats:
Jordan - 33.6ppg, 6 reb, 6 ast, 48.1% fg%, 36.8% 3pt%, 80.6% ft%
Lebron - 28.4ppg, 10.2 reb, 7.8 ast, 48.4% fg%, 35.2 3pt%, 73.1% ft%
Top 100 Gamescore games of all time:
MJ had 14 out of the 100 greatest gamescore games in nba history
MJ owns the #1 greatest game ever played... the #7 greatest game ever played
only 6 of the greatest games inside the top 50
14% of the greatest games ever played in the nba come from MJ
Lebron had 3 out of the 100 greatest gamescore games in nba history
lebron owns the 14th greatest game... the 44th greatest game ever played & the 80th greatest game ever played
only 2 of greatest games inside the top 50
3% of the greatest games ever played in the nba come from Lebron
Jordan Scoring:
30.1 regular season PPG(highest in NBA history)
33.4 playoff PPG(highest in NBA history)
33.6 NBA finals PPG(highest in NBA history)
8 games of 50+ points, 38 games of 40+ points, never scored under 15 points in a playoff game
Lebron Scoring:
27 regular season PPG
28.7 playoff PPG
28.2 NBA finals PPG
1 game of 50+ points, 28 games of 40+ points, never scored under 7 points in a playoff game
@@DfsGamerGuruthank you!! Lebron is the goat!! No doubt about it!
@@loganerb3952 only 2 of greatest games inside the top 50
3% of the greatest games ever played in the nba come from Lebron
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jordan Scoring:
30.1 regular season PPG(highest in NBA history)
33.4 playoff PPG(highest in NBA history)
33.6 NBA finals PPG(highest in NBA history)
8 games of 50+ points, 38 games of 40+ points, never scored under 15 points in a playoff game
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lebron Scoring:
27 regular season PPG
28.7 playoff PPG
28.2 NBA finals PPG
1 game of 50+ points, 28 games of 40+ points, never scored under 7 points in a playoff game
Lots and lots of doubt🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@loganerb3952
MJ - Peak 3 years
3 - Championships (3-peat)
3 - Finals MVP
3 - Regular season MVP
3 - All star games
3 - All 1st Offensive Teams
3 - All 1st Defensive Teams
3 - Scoring Leader
2 - Steal Leader
3 - [AP] Athlete of the year
1 - [SI] Sportsperson of the year
----------------------------------------------
Lebron - Peak 3 years
2 - Championships
2 - Finals MVP
2 - Regular season MVP
3 - All star games
3 - All 1st Offensive Teams
3 - All 1st Defensive Teams
Comparing Jordan to perfection and not lebron james is one of the most intelligent arguments I've heard
Jordan is literally perfect for what humans can accomplish in the sport.
✌🏾 3 peats by MJ23 is waaaaay more impressive then what anything LBJ has done! That will never be done again! Therefore MJ23 is UNTOUCHABLE as the 🐐 ✊🏾💪🏾🖐🏾☝🏾
No game went more than 6 rounds!
Would've been an 8-peat if he didn't leave for a couple of years
Yup ✊🏾
I've always said the same thing. 100 percent agree@@Tellitlikeitis-e8v
Jordan is top 5 in points and steals, even though he only played 13 complete seasons.
Jordan didn't play in 13 complete seasons. He played in 11 because he broke his foot his second year and then when he came back from retirement the first time he only played 17 games.
So it's even more impressive when you put it that way
Top 5 in points and steals in both totals and career averages
Let’s add more context, when he retired he finished 3rd. Only about 6000 plus points behind Kareem who played 20 seasons. Jordan literally accomplished the most in the less time
@@MikeBNumba6 its 13 why do yall always ignore the wizard years? because mj was washed? lebron is the same age right now as jordan was on the wizards. lebron fans arent ignoring these seasons cuz hes old.
@@RobinXlone you're right. My mistake
I don't know why but it makes me uncomfortable seeing how hard Sharp fights this losing battle. It's like it goes a little beyond mancrush.
Thinking the same.
looks like a Democrat fighting facts with his feelings...
I couldn't agree more. Excuse my expression I called it; Shannon is always riding Lebron dick so hard all the damn time. Sorry, that's just how I see it. I do believe Lebron is a great player definitely top ten player of all time. I would say he close to Jordan but not above Jordan. In my opinion Jordan is the Goat!!! If Lebron can get to more Championships than I would put him right near Jordan.
Even if im a hard fan of someone, i wouldnt be acting like him. I dont want to be called a c0cksucker or something.
@@bigjun913 how y'all morons make everything about politics?
I just looked at the Bulls' stats from 1985-1990. My God, the torture, 1985: 1-3 loss to Bucks 1st round, 1986: 0-3 loss to Celtics 1st round, 1987: 0-3 loss to Celtics 1st round, 1988: 0-3 loss to Pistons 2nd round, 1989: 2-4 loss to Pistons ECF, 1990: 3-4 loss to Pistons ECF, 1991 beat the Pistons 4-0 in the ECF. That was special! It took Jordan 4 tries to decimate the Pistons, but he did it! Shannon is a bigot and should be ignored.
Bigot?
@@Lewise512 Bigot: a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction.
Bigot Also means especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
@@thefearlessshaheen2366 you're like Sheldon Cooper but more annoying
@@Lewise512 Where did that come from? I am not like Sheldon.
Those two series losses to the Celtics can be forgiven, that 86 Celtics team is considered one of the best ever. Pistons were getting really good in those years as well.
MJ was learning still, once he figured it out it was over.
Jordan averaged great numbers during a time when the league had a heavy emphasis on defense and much lower scoring totals. Pretty impressive to me.
FACTS..Which is why i I don’t watch The NBA .These guys play no fundamental ball ,no defense . The woman play more fundamental ball than the man pro & college.
Wrong. Early 2000s was the defensive era of basketball.
facts.
Wrong, WRONG, Wrong . . .
You are Wra-Wra-Wrong
Now the nba is boring af to watch
Fun fact: If MJ had played the 1993-94 season and the entire 1994-95 season while averaging 30 a game, he would have had to put up fewer than 10 points a game between 1998 and 2001 to pass Kareem.
In other words, had MJ only retired one time (in 2003), his career points would have been FAR north of 40k, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Yep...in his 2003 interview with John Thompson he said if he cared about stats, he would kept playing and passed Kareem. When he played, his main focus was on winning and not stats.
Don't forget he broke his foot in 85 and only played 19 games
Yes, I just tried computing it. (correct this if I'm wrong)
jordan only played 13 full seasons and yet he's 5th overall in the all-time scoring list. what if he played 20 seasons? he averaged 30.1 ppg his entire career and let's say he played 7 more seasons which is 82(games) x 7(season) = 574 games and multipy it by 30 points per game, the outcome would be 17,220. Jordan scored 32,292 and assuming the 7 seasons he might have scored more or less 49,512 overall points. That is the reason why all time scoring list can't make you the goat because it is more to longevity than your scoring skill.
Facts!!!
@@Hesoyam31 well...🔥🔥💯💯
When LBJ passed MJ scoring his team lost by 16 points
When LBJ passed Kobe in scoring his team lost by 17 points
When LBJ passed Malone in scoring his team lost by 16 points
When LBJ passed Kareem in scoring his team lost by 3 points
Phil was a great coach because he had Mike and then he had Shaq and Kobe .. but flamed out with melo and the Knicks
LeBron uncoachable. Would've got Phil fired.
LeBron can only win on a Super Team
Melo wasn't nearly the same level not a number one guy that can lead a team to chip
@Mike Hawk Ok? So your point is that if Phil coached NY. Mike would have zero rings.
And if Phil coached the Spurs. Kobe would have zero rings.
Ok
@@tommygiordano5654 it don't matter melo is a prolific scorer I think he even has a scoring title . And every one thought they was going to get a ring . But Phil being the great coach he is tried running the triangle that 1. Melo anit buy into and the league was changing to a style where that offense is obsolete . Did Phil adjust or bump heads wit melo ?
@Mike Hawk As far as Doug Collins, the Bulls were getting closer to the Finals every year but they didn't win it when Phil coached in 1990 too. Also, don't forget about 1995. We know what happened there. But this all reminds me of when Mark Jackson was coaching the Warriors and then they bring an unknown Kerr (as far as coaching) in to take over the team Mark built. The Warriors were getting better and better every year under M. Jackson. Had Kerr taken that Knicks job instead, he wouldn't have won any rings and certainly not be considered a great coach.
Those buzzer beater stats for both guys were great. Proved that Jordan was more clutch when time was running out! And his finals wins vs losses completely settle this debate. Jordan is the GOAT! Period
Shannon Sharpe made my IQ drop by 3%
Wow 😳
It took Jordan 8 years to ascend to Finals level and once he did he only lost one series in the 95 year off his come back. Meanwhile LeBronda repeatedly quit on his team once he got to Finals level, swept multiple times and lost 6x versus winning 4. Jordan has never quit on his team by walking off the floor when his team down 30. A GOAT would never quit on his team. Recently LeBronda showed he’s all about himself by breaking all time scoring record then quits again and watches his team lose, when, if he is the so called scoring leader why didn’t he score and help team get the W? Cos he isnt the GOAT plain and simple. There never has been a debate cos truth be told Jordan is levels above LeBron. LeBron if being truthful isn’t even top 5 all time.
My All Time list:
1. MJ
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Abdul-Jabbar (top 3 peak All Time with MJ/wilt)
6. Bird
7. LeBronda
8. Hakeem
9. Shaq
10. Duncan
(#11 Late Great Kobe)
Imagine If Jordan had another superstar with the wizards
Nooo you thinking too small. Imagine if Jordan had the mentality of today’s players and went to LA with Phil, Shaq, and Kobe😱
@@cochise4390 that's 11 rings
@@bloodlust8481 11 easy lol
@@cochise4390 jordan said he wouldve went to the knicks if the bulls didnt give him what he wanted. he had that mentality
it wouldnt do anything. imagine if lebron had a healthy AD he might not have to average 30 at age 38
Shannon: all that matters is did you win or did you lose
Also Shannon: he made 8 straight finals and he averaged a triple double even though he lost
Lakers get harder to defend everyday 😭
You can thank good ol Shay Shay for that lol
I can think of at least 3 guys I’d rather have take the final shot over LeBron James: Kareem with his deadly skyhook, Bird who was the master of the half inch and Jordan who shot nearly the same from the field in the clutch versus any other time in the game. I saw a video where if you expand clutch shooting to the final two minutes of a game, MJ’s shooting percentage was still around 50% and LBJ’s was below 30%. That’s not even close!
Bro that skyhook ain’t deadly only deadly if it goes in
@@nageeyamaal3707 he made it a lot more than he missed it.
@@nageeyamaal3707 no one shoots 100% be realistic and objective
Get your fact right on basketball
@@edmondtanksley6631 I did.
Keep the clips coming bro. It seems like I always agree w what you say. I've watched the NBA religiously since the beginning of Jordan's career so I should know better. The only thing that could have made this clip better would have been if you showed the reaction of NBA players who played against both Jordan and Lebron when asked who is better.. All of em, their first reaction is to laugh lol. And who would know better than the pros that played against both? All of them are in agreement it's not even close. You should include that next time.
Watching Jordan play when I was child made me believe in the impossible. The world was a different place back then and I am forever blessed to have been able to watch his games during that time. Both Players are legends. One may be the GOAT. But MJ will forever be my champ.
This...and I was a HC Piston fan then
Facts!!
Jordan did not win a single east conf championship until his 7th season, he simply could not beat Larry Legend. Jordan did not win much of anything until Magic and Bird were gone.
As for Lebron, he is not even in the top 4 Lakers.
@@richardsnyder4894 what does that mean MJ still beat HOF thats like saying Shaq in Hakeem never won till MJ retired
I remember MJ last NBA finals game when he cross Russell up I was 15 years old in my mind I said let see what MJ going do once he got the steal from K.Malone it felt like time stop in that moment yo for real
6 with the same team is harder to do, because everyone knows your weakness... and has plenty of opportunities to adapt
Not to mention 2 3peats
I think Bill Russell would agree...but not me, depends on the talent in the league at the time. And just like in Bill's day, there wasn't near the talent as in MJ's. And same goes for MJ, a lot more talent in the past 2 decades than in his era. MJ was still running around slow 7 foot white dudes....today, those 7 footers are shooting 3 pointers and defending guards. Big improvement in talent in level of competition. But keep that on the down low, ESPN might ban me.
@@chaximushoffman8102 hardly anybody plays defense anymore and Jordan would’ve had access to better training, nutrition, “supplements”, and load management like Lebron does now. Jordan was playing 18 holes of golf and then playing a game that night, or partying and gambling all night and showing up and dropping 52 points the next night.
Great players are great in any era, because they do whatever it takes to be the best and have an insane desire to win.
You put any great player in todays NBA with the access to todays sports nutrition, S&C, coaching, etc and they will still be great.
@@chaximushoffman8102 Let’s compare an era where it was considered a regular foul body slaming players in the paint, you must forgotten about the part where it was normal for your enforcers in the 80’s to purposely cause harm to anyone that tries to go to the hole.
The mindset in the 80’s was you want to drive to the paint well you going to pay for it, just like how the NFL used to hardly throw in the MIDDLE because there is a going to be a head hunter looking to make it on Sports Center top ten highlights during the 90’s.
@@chaximushoffman8102no, they don't ban people who aren't affiliated with them. Plus it helps them look better when those same unaffiliated people have no clue as to what they're talking about.
You're safe as a kitten
Your channel Is by far the best there is. Always straight facts and objective opinions based in the facts. Can't get enough of it!
I love this guy's channel. Just straight facts. No bias at all
"Who in the hell gets credit for losing?"
4-6 LeCoach
HAH
Outstanding video!!
As usual Shannon Sharpe's entire argument in favor of LeBron and against Jordan is based 100% on emotion. As much as Skip tries to bring actual numbers and facts into the debate Shannon's only stance is feelings over facts. This is why he can't sustain a consistent argument, which by all accounts makes him the worst possible critic of who should be claimed the GOAT.
Aside from the goat mask wearing and/or showing up in a LeBron jersey the most pathetic and embarrassing display of Shannon's obsession with LeBron was exchanging hostilities with Dillon Brooks. Shannon was the proverbial mother at the game who feels the need to defend her baby because someone on the other team is being mean to her sweet baby boy. Again, Shannon cannot be objective and no one should ever listen to him when it comes to the debate of Jordan versus LeBron. He lacks any and all integrity because he doesn't have the ability to detach his emotions.
Skip is far from perfect and his takes can come across as being a hater but more often than not he takes the side of stats, facts and figures.
MJ was like watching a movie hero when he play...it seems like his shots were like perfectly coordinated...and you always knew he will come and save the day ..
Well said!
Y'all saw the slide Jordan did with them J's in the beginning of the video 📸 plus the dunk tsss 😌😊I everytime I watched It I felt new everytime 🤷🏾♂️
Your comment has 23 likes as of now. I wanna add a like to your comment, but it's fitting that it's on number 23 right now.
Real GOATs never have to say it
I think it's important to remember that not only does LeBron have a longer NBA career than Jordan, so do the other three players that rank above him in scoring by at least four years. Clearly if Jordan would have put in the time that LeBron, Kareem, Malone and Kobe did he would have easily been a contender for that record but he got everything out of his career that he wanted earlier than them and retired after his 15th year. If you average it out Jordan actually has a high per/year scoring rating than Lebron so all-time scoring is not a great indicator of player ability. I don't think anyone would argue that Karl Malone was a better player than Jordan and yet he has more points on the board... with 19 years in.
Losing with everything left on the floor with no or little help and losing because of being outplayed/disappeared as the best player on the floor is totally different
"who gets credit for losing?"
LeBron James enters chat
The Shot was the only “win or go home” buzzer beater in NBA history.
Jordan's finesse game was way more fun to watch than LeBron's bully ball style of play. It's not fun watching someone beg for a foul every time they put up a shot.
LBJ been 40 lbs heavier steamrolls his opponent like a mack 🚚. MJ bern 40 lbs lighter had to finesse his opponents which took considerably more skill.
Another banger bro, don’t stop exposing these frauds🔥
He didn't expose anything
Two things I think people overlook:
1. Jordan would’ve 8-peated had he not got dumb and tried to play baseball.
2. People talk a lot about how much help he got with Pippen. I’ll say Pippen didn’t win without Jordan and DWayne Wade won a championship without LeBron.
Your right
I like Bird's approach to the game! He wasn't trying to play on no team with no other superstar! They were the enemy! Athletes got along back then but they weren't no buddy buddy in the off season! They were very serious! MJ had to go through guys with this mentality! That's a big difference as well! Respect to the GOAT!
Bill Russell is the GOAT. Larry Bird is the best all around NBA player ever, and Wilt Chamberlain is the
greatest Athlete of all time.
@@steverenom.299so no jordan u smoke crack for a hobby i bet
@@Screwface115 Bill Russell needs a toe to wear all his Championship Rings at once. Bird was a better rebounder than
Jordan, a better passer than Jordan, just as good a shooter as Jordan, a better free throw shooter than Jordan and people
don't even realize that Bird's defensive win rating is better than Jordan's. Wilt Chamberlain was a champion hurdler, a
champion long jumper and he never lost a high jump competition ever. These things are what a crack free mind can know. Lol.
Hands down Jordan. It's not even close. None whatsoever. Jordan was a walking highlight reel. Not just a play here or there. He played entire games with such intensity. He just didn't stop.
Mj was the real GOAT in just 15yrs, he has so many achievements.
Skip is the worst MJ debater on TV. But MJ game is soooooo astonishing that skip Bayless still wins the debates. 😂 He allows Shannon to tell the biggest lies ever. Like Phil was the greatest coach ever. I've heard people (like Bird) say MJ was the best player ever before a Ring and Phil coaching him. Who in the Heck said Phil was the best coach ever before MJ???? Eazy work. MJ/Ali are da Goats of Alllllllll sports.
Skip clearly been throwing GOAT debates ever since LeBron went to LA.
Clearly ESPN wants to sell the turd LeBron package for profit.
Skip is decent on most topics, then mysteriously rolls over in GOAT debates for years now.
New sub. Great analysis. People pretend like MJ averaged 0 assists and 0 rebounds
Best ever doesn't mean played for 20 years near the top... Being the best ever is having the highest peak. It means that at the time of his peak( which Jordans was when he first retired but even so take 91-93) means that at that point there is no other player past or present that can match him. Jordan at his peak was the ultimate competitor and moreover the point is to score points and stop the other team from scoring and he was the best at both
Bill russell has 11 rings. Bro won more rings in 8 years than jordan did in 15
@@skettinbutter3635 yooo what 😂 literally no one who watches basketball seen bill russell play 🤦🏼♂️ rip that man but cmon bro modern era .. only person w more is robert horry and he 7-0
Like MJ said it's his fault that he made this generation think it's all about flash and not the fire from the hard work he did. Also as Kobe said if you aint got the ring job's not finish...
Kobe got it much easier then LJ and MJ. 1
He was a privileged kid,
2. He was lucky to play as a sidekick to Shaq , when Ahaq was on his prime.
3. He was also very fortunate to have Phil Jackson to coach him even though and I quote Phil " he was uncountable". during his beginning years.
Bill Russell 11 rings🏀🏀🏀🏀🏀🏀🏀🏀🏀🏀🏀
@@andyreid6869 that’s an amazing feat that will never be equaled, props to him for that. To add context to it, they only had a total of 8 teams when he started his career & only 14 by the time he retired.
MJ - Peak 3 years
3 - Championships (3-peat)
3 - Finals MVP
3 - Regular season MVP
3 - All star games
3 - All 1st Offensive Teams
3 - All 1st Defensive Teams
3 - Scoring Leader
2 - Steal Leader
3 - [AP] Athlete of the year
1 - [SI] Sportsperson of the year
Lebron - Peak 3 years
2 - Championships
2 - Finals MVP
2 - Regular season MVP
3 - All star games
3 - All 1st Offensive Teams
3 - All 1st Defensive Teams
Peak 6 years of each player in the playoffs:
Jordan - 34.6ppg, 50.5% fg%, 35.7% 3pt%, 83.1% ft%, 6.7 reb per game, 6.6 ast per game, 2
steals per game, 1 block per game
Lebron - 28.1ppg, 51.1% fg%, 34.4% 3pt%, 75.6% ft%, 7.7 reb per game, 7.3 ast per game,1.7
steals per game, 1 block per game
Career Playoff Stats:
Jordan - 33.6ppg, 6 reb, 6 ast, 48.1% fg%, 36.8% 3pt%, 80.6% ft%
Lebron - 28.4ppg, 10.2 reb, 7.8 ast, 48.4% fg%, 35.2 3pt%, 73.1% ft%
Top 100 Gamescore games of all time:
MJ had 14 out of the 100 greatest gamescore games in nba history
MJ owns the #1 greatest game ever played... the #7 greatest game ever played
only 6 of the greatest games inside the top 50
14% of the greatest games ever played in the nba come from MJ
Lebron had 3 out of the 100 greatest gamescore games in nba history
lebron owns the 14th greatest game... the 44th greatest game ever played & the 80th greatest game ever played
only 2 of greatest games inside the top 50
3% of the greatest games ever played in the nba come from Lebron
Jordan Scoring:
30.1 regular season PPG(highest in NBA history)
33.4 playoff PPG(highest in NBA history)
33.6 NBA finals PPG(highest in NBA history)
8 games of 50+ points, 38 games of 40+ points, never scored under 15 points in a playoff game
Lebron Scoring:
27 regular season PPG
28.7 playoff PPG
28.2 NBA finals PPG
1 game of 50+ points, 28 games of 40+ points, never scored under 7 points in a playoff game
Gotta love how even Shannon says "3 titles". 😂😂
Shannon always messes up his words, he meant with 3 different teams lmao
3 titles out of 10 appearances!! yet these Bronsexuals think he's the GOAT lmao he LOST more titles than he won.
Hard to know how great Jackson actually was. He’s had 4 of the top 50, 3 of top 30, 2 of top 10, and the unrivaled GOAT on his team. Certainly a great coach, but hard to say his players didn’t make him.
Truth. Hell back when the original NBA top 50 came out, Rodman was on it too. He technically had 5 of the top 50 when he was on the lakers with MJ, Pip, Rodman, Shaq, Kobe. Arguably he has 3 of the top 10 too with MJ, Shaq, Kobe (depending on people's lists).
yeah, how much of it was really Tex Winters, too...
So can we say this about Pop and Duncan? Cuz what has Pop won since TD retired? Coaches are just as important as players
MJ made everyone think they can fly. Lebron made everyone believe you can’t win unless you play with an all-star team.
MJ the goat
One thing that may not have been mentioned is, maybe Lebron has more late game clutch shots than Michael, but that would also include how many times the Bulls did not NEED a clutch shot to actually win a game!
exactly..LeBron's clutch shots weren't as important.. Jordans clutch shots were made when it counted the most and during crucial important games.
Lebron got swept by the Spurs 0-4 in the 2007 nba finals, Swept by GSW 0-4 in the 2018 nba finals, Swept by the Denver Nuggets 0-4 in the 2023 nba west finals. Lebron 6 losses in the nba finals. These are all FACTS.
I’m not even the biggest Jordan stan, but the fact that dude is 6-0 in NBA Finals with 6 FMVP says it all. Even super dominant players like Shaq and Wilt couldn’t string together 6 seasons where they were as dominant. Shaq had his stretch where he went 3-0 in Finals with 3 FMVPs, but then fell off afterwards. So even peak Shaq could only accomplish half of what Jordan did in the postseason.
And that was with Kobe too. Jordan's best teammate was Pippen.
C'mon Shannon u know better, Phil was a great coach because of Jordan not vice versa, like MJ wasn't by far the best player before Phil got there
Not if you watched The Last Dance. Phil brought in the Native American philosophies that changed their perspectives on teamwork. He helped Jordan trust his teammates more when he said "Do you wanna average 40 or do you wanna win?" Not the exact quote but close to it.
Jordan, Pippen, and Phil. All-time great basketball trio.
@@jordanjenkins1671 Jordan was still winning those titles regardless who coach was as long as he just had Pip, not to take nothing from Phil but Jordan was still winning those titles with or without Phil
Jordan simply never learned to lose after he figured out how to win. Jordan rarely had an off night scoring. Jordan only had two HOF teammates, and only one of them came as a free agent.
8:21 I hate Shannon bru…he gon say allat like the thunder didn’t beat the lakers…regardless of lebron breaking the record, the team still lost but no one talks about that😂😂Shannon a goofy
Not only did they lose, but they're likely not even going to make the free play in for the 2nd year in a row. Imagine if Jordan had 2 other 1st round hall of famers on his team, they added the play in back in his day, and he missed it twice in a row. Lebron fans would latch onto that like a fly on sh*t. Instead when they miss the play in for the 2nd time, they will overlook it and just say he broke the points record... with 4400 more 3 point attempts than Kareem's career 18.
This conversation is so stupid. Never ending excuses for a man that can't win.
MJ was 11-0 in champion play. 6-0 finals. 1-0 national championships, 4-0 gold medal play. End of discussion.
Interesting how Lebron's dunk highlights are always wide open while Jordan's highlights he's always dunking on a 7 footer. Isn't that something?
It's definitely something
They play completely different styles yea it is something
Bigs rarely contested LeBron when he had a head full of steam. Because of that, the only high-profile poster dunks he ever had were on old-school elite defenders Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. But the poster on little Jason Terry is the one that gets all the views 😆
@@jordanjenkins1671 there are hardly any bigs in today's NBA and the rule changes have the paint wide open, so he's benefitted hugely because he can't shoot for shit and statistically 67% of his FGs made are from 0-3 feet. Ledicklicks are oblivious to these non casual basketball analysis .
@@khayotikk1 even when Jordan was playing like or close to LeBron in 1989 when he was the point guard for half the season his dunks and layups were still contested
Phil became a great coach because of MJ not the other way round.
Yep...MJ even said he had to choose between Dean Smith and Phil Jackson, he would choose Dean because that's where he learned the fundamentals. When he played with Phil, he already knew all of that stuff and more.
Jordan in Finals games 24-11 (6-0)
Lebron in Finals games 22-33 (4-6)
So in the most important games possible, Jordan ACCOMPLISHED more in 35 games than Lebron did in 55 games, and with less help.
-Not to mention, in 5/6 of Lebron's Finals L's, HIS MAN WON FINALS MVP!!!! (Iggy, Kawhi, Durant x3)
MJ was,is,and will always be the greatest player of all time,period!
Sharpe : Who get credits for losing ?!
MJ IS THAT GOOD 😆🐐
A lot of us grew up having seen none of Muhammad Ali's fights live. But we all know he is the Goat.
Same applies to Jordan. There are just athletes that are set and stoned to be great. Jordans shoe will continue to be loved. His legacy will continue to live on a long with his amazing legacy of his rings, performances and impact.
💯💯💯👏👏👏
Tyson comes close but I think Ali takes it just cause he had more integrity. Ali would never bite an opponent. But Rocky was undefeated and only him throughout boxing history so idk for sure of Ali is an undisputed goat.
😅he said, “who in the hell get credit for losing?” Well, Shannon, you just summarized Lebron’s career.
It wouldn't been for Pippen Dennis Rodman kukoc Harper Longley Steve Kerr Paxson Horace Grant Hodgins Michael Jordan wouldn't have six rings NBA
Lol. You named a bunch of fuckin b tier at best players while lebron has played with that same number of a level players and doesn’t have shit in Jordan. Mainly because lebron can’t play team basketball.
@@edmondtanksley6631 If it wasn’t for Wade and Bosch Lebron wouldn’t have but 2 rings
@@ShaneEllington and Kyrie, Love, AD(top 5 player at the time)
@@edmondtanksley6631 this is team argument NBA is all about teamplay LBJ himself switching team to get ring
Lebron's last game summed him up perfectly. Got his empty calories, quit the game, and they lost.
From Sharp’s logic Robert Horry is the goat…. He won seven championships with three different teams … who cares if he wasn’t the best player on any of those teams … he also 3peated with the Lakers … that’s it Big Shot Rob is the GoAT 🐐!!! 🤣
Just wanna say your videos are so great! Very informative, fair and contextual, appreciate you bro 👍🏼
The GOAT never got swept twice in the finals.