Okay let me make this clear. I had a problem with the QUANTITY of fairy tale tropes and the ones that were used. It was super predictable and made the beginning of the story bland to me. Some old tales are based off of things that actually happened but usually what REALLY happened isn't so cookie cutter. They did NOT have to write it that way. I know that SOME of the characters are based off of fairly tales, that's irrelevant. It's not bad just underwhelming.
Vexed Viewer True but cookie cuter does not always mean bad. You can have the same tropes from fairy tails but have a twist to them. I believe the twist of this fairy tail was how Salem refused to accept the death of Oz. Also, I believe she did have a solid plan because she realized one thing. If I can fool the gods then she can defiantly fool humanity. I also doubt she could fool the gods again. It would be like the saying: “Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you.” The idea that you can’t be fooled again. And one more thing, I believe that one other reason that Oz kept this story hidden was because of shame. He was once a man who put the world before himself but when given a second chance to save humanity, he chose to be with Salem who wants destruction. Also, we have to remember that when it comes to questions in shows. Hindsight is 20/20. We can’t just say that they should of asked x question when we are not in the characters place. When it come to destroy and defeat, destroying someone is defeating someone but not always when it comes to defeat. For the most part, defeat is normally used in the since of a physical since so it makes sense he would ask it in that way, they are seen as synonymous.
To many problems in this one episode, let me list them I just found. 1. Every character being that doe implant contradictions in their statements. 2. The point of Ozpins Resurrection. 3.The logic of humanity completely wiped out only to return out of no were. 4. The people fighting the gods just because of a selfish lady who is immortal. 5. The maidens as children that is given no personality. 6. The gods leaving in the first place as well as wiping humanity for no moral reason. 7.The point of the entire backstory. 8. Lazy Writing that contains large plot holes and clichés.
Andrey Santiago 1. Don’t know what you mean. May want to check spelling or explain more. 2.The point of his resurrection is to save the new humanity. 3. The idea is life finds a way. The idea that humans evolved from the word left by the gods. 4. They fought the gods for selfish reasons as well and the were mislead by Salem. 5.It was not confirmed that the children were maidens. They could have been inspirations for the maidens. 6.Gods do not view morals the same way. They are gods, they can do what the want. You would stop caring for an experiment if it fails. 7.The point of the backstory is to show what Oz is hiding. Rewatch the episode for more details. 8.What are the plot holes? If you are going to say that something is lazy, explain why.
If they're going to base ALL of their characters on fairy tale tropes then what's wrong with basing the origins of the world on one too? I mean, the only predictable part about it was the beginning bit and it wasn't even the most interesting part. Plus they did enough to give it it's own unique spin and did a lot of things out of the norm too. It's not like it's possible for any story or tale to be 100% original at this point in time so why not build on the thing the show was advertised over in the first place?
@@mangamandrew 1. Salem has just defied the gods for her own ego yet I feel she was given harsh punishment by killing everybody else and resurrecting Ozpin counters the gods plans to not be with Salem. 2. the god of light should have done the work to save humanity by him self with almost no effort don't you think? 3. How can humans exist without other humans if they were all killed except one, also Ozpin can't be resurrected if their are no humans on earth unless he can be reborn as animals. 4. I know that, I was trying to say is how dumb situation is and with out a good plan or reason. 5. The stories about the maidens could be fake because of Ozpin but just think about it, four females with super natural powers, has two god like parents. That can't be a coincidence. 6. The God of darkness is doing immoral acts but the god of light is doing nothing about this chaos? 7. This backstory is not given enough clearance on changing the fact that Ozpin has no plan to stop Salem and the grim possibly dooming the world with his own interaction with his loved one.. 8.I already listed all the bad things in this episode, please understand.
Ozpin was the one who was going to take the kids in the divorce. Salem was the one who decided she'd rather just kill everyone then pay the lawyer fees in the upcoming custody battle.
He brought him back after he called the planet a failed experiment, and after he said his brother's exterminatus was a tragedy It is less running a planet and maintaing balance, and more "call me if you can prove humanity is worthy"
Reincarnation is likely the loophole of his own rules so its not dumb. Whats dumb is choosing Ozpin rendering the reason for her punishment null and void. Like arent their like thousands of humans with no relation to Salem that are worthy for the task ahead? Honestly it feels like this was done to move the plot forward.
The whole balance thing went right out the window when he made Salem immortal. There is no balance, or there is one but it is very broad and can be played with without fear of consequences.
The main thing that kind of annoyed about this episode was that out of all the people the gods could've resurrected, they chose Ozma despite the fact that they know Salem is still alive. Wasn't the whole punishment based around the fact that she could never see Ozma again until she learned about life and death or whatever? What's the point of trying to teach Salem a lesson if you take away her reason to give a shit in the first place? I can't be the only one who saw how stupid that was.
If you think about it, the gods punished salem so she could learn the importance of life and death. However salem refused and instead turned everyone towards the gods which led the humans to their death. With Salem (the witch) growing in her power the god of light decides to send Ozma perhaps becuase she could learn life and death from Ozma's reincarnation? I dont know. I dislike this episode as well. Im just throwing my 2 cents in it.
I honestly feel bad for Ozpin and actually respect him a bit more now. The man has been through hell: he died young from sickness, was ressurected and killed twice by the gods, was threatened with the annihiliation of his planet by the God of Light, found out that his beloved was immortal and corrupted by the God of Darkness, was a warlord for a while, realized that his wife wanted to commit genocide, probably witnessed the death of his children, and is now trapped reincarnating with his immortal ex-wife who has grown to loath him. He doesn’t believe that he can defeat Salem and probably doesn’t believe that the Gods will judge man favorably. So, in such an utterly horrific and impossible situation, what does Ozma do? He grits his teeth, and sets about protecting mankind from Salem for all eternity, because he genuinely believes that mankind deserves to live on Remnant, damn the Gods and damn Salem.
loafhero I honestly think both sides have a point and neither Ozpin nor the rest of the group is 100% right or wrong here. Ozpin has some good reasons to keep secrets and not trust others, but he was wrong to lie to the others and make them think he had a plan to defeat Salem when all he is really doing is endlessly stalling for time. The rest of them were justified in their anger, but their emotions clouded their judgment and they refused to even listen to Ozpin's explanations or apologies and instead lashed out at the poor guy.
@loafhero considering how much emotional pain Ozpin is going through, I don't think we're not meant to have some sympathy for him. Besides, the volume's not even at his half-way point, so we don't know what the girls will do after expressing their frustrations.
Add the fact he was crying at the confrontation ( remember a grown thousand year old man crying) and the fact the he has so far shut down in Oscar's mind. ( Remember Oscar cant feel Ozpin anymore.) And yup the emotional pain is likely unbelievable.
@@MrRemicas I expect them to be b**ches to Ozpin until the volumes end. Most of the Volume should be done when the first episode aired meaning expect so much stupid for Vex to rant about.
He could of just spent hundreds of years boning Salem but nooooo, he had to have a conscience about people who will fight now matter what happens. Humanity will never find peace. He should have just accepted it and ruled as a god, even if they really weren't.
It's not even about "caring" either.He fucking KNOWS humans wont change,and could have went with salem to make a better humanity.Not to mention that these gods killed the entirety of humanity cause "fuck you thats why",making ozpins loyalty questionable at best.
Actually pretty dumb. Could have had eternity with his invincible immortal wife. Maybe the gods wanted to punish her then give her what she wanted after letting her despair, either knowing or not knowing the two would arrogantly split due to their own selfish interests....
@@Ay-xq7mj that would make sale even MORE fucked up.The gods taking pity on her and humanity only for her to fuck it up twice.Kinda makes you wonder how she functions as a person.
@@Ay-xq7mj The "god" of light knew how it would end up, he sent the man Salem "threw the world away" to bring back, with a mission knowing Salem hated him and everything to do with him.
I don't mind the cliche fairy tale aspects. I think the point is served well enough that they had a fairy tale romance and everything should have been happily ever after ... Except not. It would have been nice to know what they grew to like about one another and more details about their dynamic, what they complete about each other etc, but in terms of plot relevance it's not that necessary, especially when that has nothing to do with the question Jinn was asked. Salem was a princess who felt entitled to her happy ending and went on a tantrum when she couldn't have it, corrupted herself so that she could never have it, and is now the scourge of humanity. That's more or less good enough for me with character moments that can happen later to flesh out some of the gaps.
Joseph Ingram One person had a theory that she couldn’t accept death because losing Ozma and losing control of her situation was like living in the tower where she had to control of her life.
I quite liked the episode because it feels like the writers are finally learning the idea of showing and telling rather than just telling. Maybe the back story has a bunch of holes in it, but it's a lot better than Qrow or Ozpin telling people to gather 'round the campfire to listen to a bedtime story that adds more tangles to the already spaghettied lore of the RWBY Universe.
Honestly I feel like what you said was a much better option than what we got. Showing and telling may be an important rule but some things deserve to be unrevealed, and Jinns tactic of going to the past just seems too cheap and cliche for me, and that is forgetting the entire fairytale bullshit we got from this. Telling would make Salem more mysterious.
@@necromelodia2432 when most of the RWBY critics I've seen have been getting on the writers asses since v4 to stop constantly using dialogue for exposition and just show what they wanna say, I see this as them just responding to that. And idk I enjoyed this one, was visually appealing and I mean complaining about fairy tail tropes? Eh, I don't think it ruins much, the general point of Oz and Salem being former lovers got across, they were just going for a storybook like approach I guess
You forgot to mention that the reason the moon is in pieces is because the gods bumped into it on their way out of earth. *slow clap* great reveal RT well worth losing the mystery.
GTGAMERZ I think he destroyed the moon as a reminder of their failed experiment and Salem's folly. Even if humanity comes back with no knowledge of what transpired in the past, the scar of the old era will still remain. That's how I see it anyway.
God of Light when Salem wanted Ozma ressurected: "Let him rest" Also God of Light: ressurects same person who he said to let rest and was the cause of this whole thing in the first place
Am i the only one whose biggest problem with this epsode is how shit the moon origin is. Oh god of darkness just was flyong throught ot on his way out. I mean what absolute waste of buildup. It makes no sense that god of darkness made magic because he hated humanity, its the exaxt reason why he made the Grimm, because he cant make anything as good as his brothers, so he makes something tgat destroys everything his brother makes. Salem is also like super dumb because she completly ignores what god of light said. He said "until you learn the meaning of life and death, then you may rest." So instead of wasting her time assembling humanity she could have just spent said time trying to reunite with ozpin.
Idk if anyone has brought this up, but my theory is that the dust is possibly the remnants of the first humans that the god of darkness destroyed. They were capable of pure magic and now their ashes have hardened into crystal dust, which allows non-magic people today to use magic.
"Dust - the fossilised bones of the first humanity. SDC processed so you know its quality. Buy now." Tell me I am not the only one who is thinking the SDC is using fossilised people in this senario as magic dust.
Eh, I don't like this episode, but I'd say humanity trying to kill the gods is justifiable grounds for wiping them out. And the God of Light seemed like he was just trying to uphold order and the rules he and his brother made, to me, he felt more uncompromising and principled than petty. Still, you could say the God of Darkness was petty for bringing back Ozpin only to kill him when he realized Salem only went to him after his brother said no.
@@nmjjmn663 I will agree that the God of Light was at least a bit more reasonable. Before his brother wiped out all the humans he seemed to turn away knowing what was about to come. At the very least knowing humanity would one day return he at least left the with a chance at redemption.
I'm sorry but Light bro isn't getting off that easily. He lets Dark bro kill EVERYONE. How is that upholding order? Why not kill off the attacking party? Why not erase their memories? Why does the citizen have to suffer? He revives Ozma, the very same person he didn't want to revive in the first place. So Why him? Light bro knew Ozma has a relationship with Salem; it would make Ozma emotionally comprised to do the quest. The mission he gave to Ozma is impossible. Unite humanity? Do faunus count? What kind of level of harmony are we talking about? What do you do about criminals? What about people who don't agree with your ideals? Don't forget that he throws Dark bro under the bus when he was talking to Ozma.
@@btrando1 The show's a little unclear, but if I recall correctly, Djinn said Salem turned _humanity_ against them, not just some of them or a few of them, most of if not all of them would have to be either involved or supportive of the idea for that statement to be right. And erasing their memories feels unnecessary, if someone tries to kill you, I'd say you're not obligated to show them any mercy. Also there _is_ an afterlife, meaning if any innocents got caught up in the God of Darkness' attack they'd presumably go to the equivalent of heaven. You're right on the second point, while you could argue Ozma was the only one capable or willing, or that the God of Light cared about humanity and wanted to give them a shot at redemption, even if it meant breaking the rules, the show never clarified and it does feel contradictory judging from what we'd seen before. Also, technically, Salem _did_ unite humanity, against them, which would mean it's possible. He should've mentioned the faunus though.
I'm glad Vex actually said something bad about this episode! A lot of other theorists were only pointing out the good Edit" Also 2:45 the music in the background is so great! It fits so well lol
My favourite thing about this episode is that it once again highlights how completely irrelevant the Faunus are to the main story, and that most likely wasn't even intentional.
Underwhelming is the right word. I don't think it was bad, I'm glad we actually came to understand Salem and Ozpin more, and also now have an idea of the endgame. I have some sympathy for Salem now, even though I agree she's the one mostly at fault for not looking past what she wanted for herself, her decisions making things worse and worse. On Oz's part though, I agree they could have made him do more wrongs.
They took what should've been awesome and made it cliche and honestly despite the fact that it's still a morally gray scenario it's still relatively black and white. *sighs*
@@SuperDeadzombeh Fairy tales have a morale to them. There was no morale. You don't need a tragic love story to tell a fairy tale, you don't need a love story at all, and it makes everyone involve come off as children. Most fairy tales have more competence
The Name of the Game is - to put it simply - what I wanted to see from RWBY. There's really too much to go through, so I recommend to look it up for yourself and see what you think (Just a warning though: chapters get loooooong)
Vexed, I like your videos a lot, and most of your criticism is more than valid and I definitely feel that it will continue to be helpful in improving the writing of this show, but I disagree with a lot you had to say here. For example, you talk about how stupid and arrogant it is for Salem to have tried to bring Ozma back to life, and to challenge the gods, and that it was also stupid for Ozma to come back and fall in love with Salem again despite being warned by the god of light that she is not the woman she once was, but isn't that the point? These were emotional decisions, not logical ones. Humans are flawed, and they make mistakes. Sometimes, as in this case, they make dumb decisions so great that they harm and haunt them for the rest of their lives, even if their hearts are in the right place. I feel that is what happened here. Salem couldn't accept the fact that she lost her love in such a way, and would do anything to get him back because it just was unjust and unfair. This is how many people feel during grief, they blame the world for the injustice it caused them, and would do anything and everything to get their loved ones back. I did pity her, I did empathize with her. A lot of your points seem to rely on the logical fallacies in these characters (which in most of your videos are more than valid with this show, trust me I know lol), but here I feel they were intentional, and made sense in the context of these characters and the story. That doesn't mean that this was necessarily perfect, jury is still out on that haha, we will have to see where the volume goes from here.
Thank you! I agree completely. For the vast majority of the criticisms people bring up with this episode to be valid you have to strip humans of their emotions completely and turn them into unfeeling robots that only make the most logical decisions. The most annoying this about it is that this isn't the first and it won't be the last time people do this. It's ridiculous how often people make this mistake when criticizing fiction.
I dunno man, my ability to sympathize with Salem ended around the time she got humanity exterminated over her grudge with the gods. You don't drag people into your personal shit if you can help it, and Salem should've realized that people all around the world have to deal with loss and grief, she and Ozma aren't special just because she wants to be. It's not about being emotional or unemotional, it's about being mature and having the wisdom and emotional strength to understand and accept that there are some things that are just going to happen no matter what you might want, and Salem lacked that emotional strength and maturity, and everyone paid the price for her failings.
@@badjuju8624 I think that's the point. I didn't see this as a "Salem's tragic past weep for her" this looked like a "Salem had her heart in a good place at first but fucked up and is going too far in her selfishness" kinda backstory. And the big reveal that makes Oz look bad is that he's essentially doing what many are mad at Salem for doing in the flashback, bringing ppl into a fight that they can't win as far as we know and losing their lives for it. He had the choice to stay dead but he rushed back to life for an understandable but selfish reason and it led to all this unnecessary sacrifice
This is the problem with Salem's backstory. She was supposed to be a villain only after the dip in the Grimm pool, but she's behaved like a villain the entire time. Going to be hard to redeem that character... which is the only way she can be defeated, apparently.
What's really interesting about this backstory is that it simultaneously sets up a sympathetic backstory yet botches it in equal measure. There are moments where the gods demonstrate potential flaws in their character but Salem at no point calls them out on it. This leads me to believe that Miles and Kerry were completely focused on using this as a "Ozpin's past mistake" story but they couldn't even do that particularly well either, unless Ozpin's mistake was trying to bail on her ASAP rather than try to talk her down.
Ozpin:hey sweety,can we NOT rule over humans? Salem:Why not? Ozpin:Because then things will get worse......again. Salem:ok. And thus the world was saved by a 5 minute conversation.
What was Oz even supposed to do? The writers made Ozpin dumb / incompetent at worst. He didn't have to hide everything that he did when none of it made him look bad. Otherwise what should he have done? Sit there and whine that he can't find a way to kill the woman he loved? At least he is trying to keep her from summoning the gods and torching humanity again. What, is that not good enough?
He is tricking people to join him by giving them false hope and making them think he knows what he is doing, when he is just making things up on the go On the other hand, Remnant is screwed if Ozpin has a lot less people to recruit, and the ones who join up have a defeatist atitude
What shadow said. And besides, there could be more to this story that we have yet to see, if they're willing to pull a Billy Mays down the line and we get Salem's recollection of the events or something
Didn't the original writer die half way though volume 2. What i mean is that this probably wasn't even a part of the plan the and as a result Ozpin is retroactively made stupid by things that weren't even a planned part of the Series yet.
I liked this episode but i completely agree with the points you made,i still like the episode but now i see it in a different perspective great job Vexed!😀🎊
On a positive note I do like the explanation for why the gods are aloof. Humanity is just a science experiment for them. They look at Humanity with only slightly more care and concern then you would give a lab rat. Doesn't change the disappointment but that part wasn't bad.
@Vexed Viewer While I probably disagree with how sympathetic Salem should be (even though it's kinda underwhelming in the grand scheme of things), I am glad that you pointed out how stupid Salem and Ozma's plans are, especially Ozma's. It frustrates me how no one else will point that out.
I mean, looking at Salem's POV, you can see that due to her upbringing, she is an emotionally stunted womanchild that lacks the coping mechanisms to deal with loss and loneliness, who can't even comprehend the idea of "keep moving forward". Oz and the Gods don't know because they assume she's an ordinary woman. And chances are, I'd probably be also guilty of doing the same thing - bringing back someone to life if there ever was one. So I won't fault her there, even though I understand that the entire situation is supposed to vindicate the idea of "keep moving forward." I do think that from the rebellion onwards, she needs a hug - and a massive smack on the head to get through to her the idea of taking personal responsibility. Still, I'm surprised RWBY didn't get the hint that Salem can't be destroyed through brute force even though they knew she was immortal from the get go. And if Oz has done nothing wrong, why hide any of it?
Now, for defenders of Ozma who think Salem can't be talked down, we don't see that onscreen, and thus we can assume that he hasn't tried that option yet. All he needs is to frame his words correctly. Salem, at this point, has enough mental fortitude to brood in a rundown shack for countless eons by herself, despite the fact that she hates being alone. She remains calm and composed instead of breaking down like a raving lunatic, unlike most other people. She has enough empathy in her to suppress her urges around her family, including her daughters. I mean, have you seen her being proud that their daughters can do magic? And Oz already has an idea on how she thinks given that she told him her life story at this point in time. What Ozma needs to do is to frame his arguments that would make sense in her mind. He could argue that if she tries to exterminate the infidels and heretics, or purge every apostate that refuses to worship their "religion", she would be no different than the Gods who cursed her - which would give some kind of pause. I mean, if he frames it as her punishment would create more people who were bitter and angry like her, and that she should do something different to avoid this. Of course, he might also make an emotional appeal about their daughters by saying that her genocidal ideals would make their daughters unhappy, or that their worshippers are just like her and their daughters who deserve to live happy lives for a change, even if they don't necessarily agree with them. If he succeeds, Ozma and Salem can continue uniting humanity and maintain their relationship.
Even if he fails, it still shows the viewer that he's actually exhausted every option, so they can't fault him for trying at this point. Instead, because they don't try to have him use these specific arguments first, we are led to believe that Oz simply took the kids away and did nothing else without exploring every possible action first. Also, I agree that Salem's backstory is kinda disappointing because I am doing everything in my power to try and sympathize with her, but she does some of the most stupid and cringeworthy shit that deflates it. I was expecting Ozpin to curse her to be this Grimm woman, intentionally or by accident and that the Gods would forcibly reincarnate him as punishment until he fixes his shit. Then Oz would have a legitimate reason to hide from RWBY, and Salem's sympathy wouldn't be undermined by her own stupidity.
@Xavier Alexander The show does a terrible job of SHOWING it. WE are left with the impression that Oz didn't try any other solution first BEFORE taking the kids away. WE are sent this mixed message, and left with this idea. It goes double because Oz KNOWS FROM HER OWN ACCOUNT HOW SHE TELLS HER SIDE OF THE STORY and how she perceives herself as the victim of the Brothers WAY BEFORE THIS. He knows she thinks the Gods were dickheads in separating the two of them, he knows based on her pride in their daughters' magical prowess that she cares deeply about them. Oz knows HOW SHE THINKS. If he can argue his viewpoint to benefit Salem AS WELL, further conflict can be avoided.
@Xavier Alexander If he'd just talk to her FIRST, so much bloodshed would not occur. He could argue that her megalomania would hurt the girls by causing massive resentment in them and take away their happiness and what's best for her daughters, which in turn, WOULD CAUSE HER GREAT SUFFERING, GIVEN THAT THEY ARE HER PRIDE AND JOY. That is something she wants to avoid. He could also argue that purging mankind in favor of her own master race WOULD MAKE HER NO DIFFERENT THAN THE GODS WHO "SCREWED HER OVER" AND STRIPPED HER OF HER HAPPINESS AND FREEDOM. I doubt she would be very happy to realize the hypocrisy in her plans. But no, despite knowing just how she HATES being alone, Oz just HAD TO TRIGGER HER ABANDONMENT ISSUES LIKE THE DUMBASS HE IS.
You're not alone there. The moment I saw Cinder, I was tempted to just skip the whole scene. Let her die already and get Hazel to adopt Emerald and Mercury please.
@@amoil6537 you know what worse? I think they gonna make her kill someone of our favourite characters just to show how "dangerous" she is...if i would place a bet it would be neo
@@nikolasferreira3247 oh no, that would be my worst fears realised. The moment I saw her silhouette on the poster and her showing up in the opening, I was scared how "relevant" she was going to be this volume. ps, if Neo dies by the hands of this poor excuse for a villain, I will spew and riot.
I feel like the REAL key detail from all that lore that Oz was trying to hide was the “All 4 Relics Together = Judgment Day/Doomsday” part. Like, Oz has been making a big deal about needing to find all the relics ASAP, but now it seems like he’s only wanting to do that because he’s given up on his original mission of restoring humanity, and knows that “All 4 Relics + Divided Humanity = Complete World Erasure”.
Other than that, I agree with Vexed’s assessment. Everything past Ozma’s death-by-sickness was very predictable and “eh”, but still fun to watch. Everything before that was pretty dull and uninspired to me, though.
They both loved each other too dame much. A classic u made terrible decisions cause of the ones u loved. They're both victims of isolation. Salem was isolated until someone freed her. I liked that But her refusal to let her love one go led to further isolation in an immortal body. And ospin is trapped in....a infinite loop of life and death reincarnated as the same person with a different body that isn't his. Maybe I'm overly hopeful and easily pleased. But I was happy with this episode and I feel for both of them. There dicks but still. Well ok its mainly salem who's a dick. Ozpin is slightly less of a dick.
I bet they'll end up using Salem as a tool, by introducing her to humanity as a threat that needs to be eliminated, which will unite everyone in the world against her. Then our heroes will bring all four relics together to summon the gods back into the world. After which they'll judge humanity as "united", get rid of Salem, introduce magic back to the world and everyone will live happily ever after. The story becomes very predictable when there's an abundancy of fairytale elements.
I got a few words about this episode. 1) I lost it when they were really drawing back arrows trying to kill a literal god and the god of darkness ate it up. 2) I love how Salem pulled a Medea and killed her own kids. Like girl, do your breathing exercises it will be okay. 3) The gods were a mood for me this episode because when shit went south they fucking dipped lmao. 4) TBH Salem could've just killed herself to be with Ozma when he first died. He's clearly her only reason for living and there's a confirmed afterlife sooooooo. I know that's dark, but highkey that's what she should've done. 5) Ozpin, how you gonna spend entire lives in mourning. I get your kids died, but you gotta get over that eventually. It shouldn't take over 100 years. Like you gonna possess this man's body and give him and yourself liver failure, FOR WHAT? Through all the shit, I'm going to take something good from this episode. Guys, cope in productive ways. Don't get liver cancer, kill your kids, or try to kill gods. Do your breathing exercises and maybe some of the good kush on occasion. 😊
Lamp = Knowledge Crown = Choice Staff = Creation Sword = Destruction I fine it funny how hard V6 Ch3 really drives in what the foundation of the plot is... aka gather the macguffins to summon/prevent the summoning of higher beings (that have dragon forms too). I kinda liked the maiden's but like Watts said they're just a means to an end now: their essentially possess 1/4 of Oz's true power yet Oz's true power couldn't beat Salem thanks to her immortality and then even their power, pales in comparison to the gods... I feel like the maidens importance to the story has been shafted to just being glorified keys now... I still liked V6 Ch3 but I'm still not sure if I'm fan of the direction Rwby's taking (according to RT V6 Ch3 was supposed to be longer but was cut short yet its still one of the longest episodes yet... so I'm wondering what was cut?, I feel like WoR might need to comeback imo).
RWBY is like the Greek Legend of Icarus. Flew too close to the sun then ended up crashing and failing spectacularly due to sheer stubbornness and lack of good judgment. Thank God I am watching Daredevil Season 3 over the train wreck known as "EWBY" (as my girlfriend calls it). Bullseye / Benjamin Poindexter / Dex is a far more interesting and sympathetic villain than Salem.
@@Rugybrat Ah, what a "mindful" retort. Let me indulge you, good sir/ma'am. You're wasting your time being sarcastic and bitter on the Internet because you're probably some punk kid with no direction in life who indulges in dreadful writing from untalented and unintelligent people like yourself. You deserve a Darwin Award. 😉
@@Rugybrat Oh, and I (did) get a medal recently. From a National Arnis/Filipino Martial Arts tournament here in the Philippines that I joined. So while I appreciate the offer (you) might need that medal more than I do, Bub. 😁
I personally believe making this 2 episodes would have helped fix some problems like the cliche and expand on the story. Instead telling us they where madly in love, show us it and it might have been less cliched.
There are rumors going around that the daughters were the original maidens. If that's the case, then this retcons the World of Remnant episode. There, Ozpin said he met the girls by chance and that was when they first got their powers. The daughters having the powers means they either survived Salem's tantrum or, somehow and assuming Salem wasn't the only woman that was in their final thoughts (remember, that's the only rule to getting another maiden's power without the grimm glove) or reincarnated into new hosts with the abilities. The only way this can't be a retcon is if the original maidens recieved his powers because they REMINDED him of his daughters and that's it.
Fal'cie curses Humans for no reason. RWBY is now a Final Fantasy FNC spinoff. we did it yall. I'm done with RWBY. if anyone needs me im gonna be trying to make Dead Fantasy into a video game.
Man, you know a story has hit rock bottom when it shares elements with ff13. ...Oh god, it even has Qrow giving a haymaker to Ozpin ( Oscar) in the next episode.
And Salem still lacks any intrigue despite a flashback episode on her past. Because we still don't have even a tentative answer to the most crucial question: What does she want?
I know you're not focusing on the Gods, and while I honestly think the Gods are cool, they do contradict their own "God system" they made for themselves for some weird reason. Light God to Salem: "Sorry, can't bring him back because it'd destroy the balance of life and death lel" God of Darkness brings him back, Light God: "Bro wtf you can't bring her back to life think of the balance" Dark God after Salem attacks: "Kill their whole race, a few dozen of them done pissed me off." Light God: "You go bro" Like I understand that Salem attacked one, but it's not like it was remotely a threat...
@@DarkCircles698 Evolution. Duh. It's pretty simple. Either way, who really cares? The god said that humanity would eventually resurface. Humanity eventually resurfaced. Because god said they would. And what god says goes. Obviously.
Not really it's just that he is one of few RWBY youtubers (fatmanfalling is one off the top of my head) who looks at things in a constructive way, other people just want don't want to criticize or they don't add any constructive tips and just shit on RWBY and take advantage of backlash for views. That right there doesn't really add much to improving the show and putting it in this format leads to growth. Just look at Vol4 through V6 massive dip and only improving after backlash. I mean even if you look at this video which is mostly negative, he clearly states where why he is dissatisfied.He was unsympathetic toward Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. It focused heavily on these characters but if you didn't like them there was no reason for you to change your mind. He's clearly coming from the point of someone with no power and know his place, gods can do as they please because they have all the power and no change of mind for someone who is still trying to kill humanity. And the dude who is constantly lying and still sending ordinary people like us to their deaths, yet still not leveraging his power to force humanity to confront Salem. Plus let's face Ozpin is still going to be a pussy and lie like a mofo, I mean he's still not talking about the silver eyes which i'm sure is part of his secret plan to confront Salem.
@@jeremycole2164 i agree with what you're saying but other than the relic of knowledge and about Leo (which i think was a good idea since if he told the truth about Leo sacrificing huntsman and huntresses and helping Cinder infiltrate Beacon, people would hate the faunists even more since Leo is a faunist and is supposed to protect an teach people) when did Ozpin lie and what group of people did he send to their deaths?
@@Kratosinferno19 He's been lying this whole journey and although sending people to their deaths is a bit of an exaggeration because they would still need to fight the Grimm. Besides ozpin should have kept people stay in check to prevent groups like the white fang from forming in the first place.
@@jeremycole2164 Honestly, I agree with what Ozpin is doing, sure it seems harsh but telling the world that humanity could be doomed and an evil being is hiding in the shadows manipulating and killing people would be an extremely terrifying truth that alot of people even trusted huntsman and huntresses wouldn't be able to take without forming negative emotions which would only entice Grimm to attack. It's smart to only have an inner circle of people to know some of the truth if not all of it. The deal with Qrow not knowing the full truth was because Ozpin was afraid that he would leave too if he knew that he didn't have a plan, imo anyway at least. I wouldn't say he lied, he just keep some secrets to himself until it was the right time to bring the out.
Semblances are easy to explain thanks to this episode, and it did it nonverbally, why everyone has one. It rather goes with the name of Remnant. Think about it; semblances are obviously supernatural powers. What was magic? A supernatural power. What did humans used to have? Magic. What happened? Humans came back with only a fraction their power, a remnant of the past. Resulting in scattered powers across humans. It also explains Aura, and why it exists. It's a remnant of Humanity's past.
I would agree, as do many. With the names of the world being Remnant, it seems pretty obvious. But with RWBY, and how a lot of established concepts were changed from previous volumes, it's better to have the show or writers say where or how semblance and aura came to be directly.
What's the difference between magic and semblance? What makes them different? If semblance is just weaker magic then why is it called a semblance? And why is it that people have all different types of semblance and why they're all different? Aura wasnt explained either. What is aura and how does it comment to the soul? Where was that answered
@@BabyGirlTiny Simple, this episode. I'll go in order of your questions. - What's the difference between magic and semblance/if semblance is just weaker magic, then why is it called a semblance? -- Magic had many forms, powers, and effects (controlling the weather, levitation, telekinesis, cryokinesis, electrokinesis as far as I remember from Amber's fight with M.E.C) and probably could have been learned and utilized by anyone the first time around (Before the world was wiped of humans). Semblance is very similar to magic, but again, a semblance's power is only a fraction of what magic was capable of, hence its name. It's a RESEMBLANCE of magic. Ruby can burst into rose petals, manipulate her speed and such, Pyrhha had magnetism, Nora can harness electricity, etc. etc. but their power can only grow within those boundaries pretty much. Nora's semblance is going to revolve around electricity, Ruby'll revolve around speed and Pyrhha'd only revolve around magnetism. Ruby'll never be able to use magnetism or utilize electricity with her semblance. - Why is it that people have all different types of semblance? -- Think about it. Humans came back with only a fraction of what they were capable of. "In time, humanity will walk the planet again, but without our presence, they will be but a fraction of what they once were." "If your kind can live in harmony with one another, and set aside your differences, my brother and I will live among you, and humanity will be whole again." Humanity needs to be brought back together, in unity. What's a good way to divide the power and bring them together? Give everyone different powers. I'll give a common, widely known allegory, an MMORPG dungeon group. Usually consisting of one Tank, a Healer, and dedicated Damage Dealers. The Tank has powers to hold a monster's attention and protect the Healer and Damage Dealers, Damage Dealers can flank and attack from different angles, and the Healer keeps everyone alive. A Tank alone can't stay alive and kill things. A Healer will never be able to kill anything on their own. Damage Dealers might kill one thing or two, but will never be able to take on the dungeon by themselves. Same thing with semblances. Sure, Jaune can heal others and boost someone else's semblance to empower it, but he doesn't have much in the way of a combative semblance. Ruby would be an evasive damage dealer. She can zip around and attack from several different angles. Blake's a trickster, her Shadows can throw an opponent off and leave them open. Alone, yes, they're competent fighters that can hold their own, but if they work together, they can work off each other's powers and be more effective. So it's to bring people together as a group. - What is Aura and how does it come from the soul? -- I think it bounced back and forth a little from misinformation over the years (both in-lore and in IRL development) but basically, Aura's just another fragment of the magic humans once had. It's a shielding/sense that everyone could and still can learn to utilize and make stronger. Magic was attached to Amber's aura or essentially, her soul, "Aura is the manifestation of our soul - everyone has it, even animals - the creatures we fight lack a soul (and therefore, Aura) and it was how Ozpin was going to transfer Amber's power to Pyrrha. "We can transfer what those powers are bound to. - Her Aura (SOUL)" "We can't guarantee it'll work, or even if you'll be the same person afterward." (Who has significant experience with a soul taking over someone else?) In summary Semblance - 1/500th the magical power humanity once had, different for everyone possibly to promote unity and camaraderie. Special exceptions where some strains of semblances are hereditary. (Weiss family glyphs and their menagerie of uses and powers) Aura - A magical power humanity was allowed to keep as the power came from souls in the first place, and was pretty much needed to combat the creatures of Grimm. Also, funny note, we got the Maiden's power is connected to her soul in Volume 3 episode 6, we got this explanation in Volume 6 episode 3 :P
It's always hard for me to judge something immediately after I see it. It's kind of impossible. I have to let it mull over a bit before I can do any in-depth critique. Kind of a pain when it comes to RWBY. That Thanos snowglobe crush was pretty cool, though.
You are the first person I’ve seen to point out Ozma’s terrible phrasing of that question. I didn’t even catch it myself. I may not agree with some of your opinions, but I’m sticking around to hear more from possibly the smartest person in the community.
Thanks for your honest opinion Vex I was mostly disappointed about how the moon is broken I mean seriously what a let down -_- so yeah like Unicorn of War said not worth the five year wait all though I didn't get into RWBY until 2015 but I digress still loved the episode tho
@@Rugybrat Ozpin and Salem having an epic god like battle on the moon like Naruto vs Toneri or maybe connected to silver eyes or dust but nope none of that didn't happen
I really like that the God Bros were super nice to each other, though the God of Life and Death are kinda cliche, but I like how the bros respectfully talk to each other and rectify shit immediately.i do feel like Salem could’ve started everything, have to be that she started the brothers died, they made dust and semblances to empower their sides, Life brings back Ozpin in a fit of rage so that he will tirelessly hunt down Salem. Have the brothers realize their mistake and then leave humanity to it’s perceived ruin, only for humanity to be reborn and thrive.
I hate it when stories do the "bad God of death" and "good God of life" thing. It especially annoys me when it's inspired by greek mythology and they make Hades look like Satan. I can respect the decision to make a God of death not have the personality of an evil murderer.
In Ozpin's defence, technically yeah he was cursed(if it were only him and not with Ozma and the others) Of course, that's because he didn't have a say in him getting possessed by Ozma But if it were all of them, then yeah, Ozma would have to take most of the blame I'm not trying to push that Ozpin's a good person, I'm just saying that technically he _was_ cursed. Just not if he were speaking about Ozma as well
Salem is sympathetic because unless you're a sociopath you can understand why a person who JUST lost their love probably isn't going to want to hear "lol get over it" x1000 in a world where ressurection is ACTUALLY possible because literal gods walk the earth also how would salem know that there is an afterlife if the gods didn't mention it until AFTER they made her immortal? meanwhile the gods prove the rules aren't that important by breaking them without consequence and claiming humanity is meaningless so who gives a fuck about teaching salem a lesson or the natural order? just revive ozma and tell her to fuck off or kill her and be done with it. it's just dumb to place all the blame on salem for being human (how on earth did you expect her to know that all the humans on earth could be life wiped in one move by the gods anyway? how would anyone know the precise limitations of the gods?)
Those were my thoughts too. If I were in their place I would of just revived him, and possibly place a time limit, or just killed her so she could at the very least join ozma in the afterlife. Unless they're saying she would have somehow rebelled in the afterlife for some reason and do something? Idk lol
I hardly doubt Salem was the first one to go to GOL and ask him to revive someone. After enduring her punishment she gets reunited with her loved one only to demand even more and decides to on a murdering rampage. If anyone is a sociopath it's Salem. Explains why she was locked away
after learning that karen tooke the kids oz tried to do the same but little dit he know that salem real name was in fact karen , but because he pissed her off , she took his life instead of the kids
Okay, I am admitting to people right now that nowadays my computer sometimes loses the colors of purple, magenta and any other similar colors, turning them grey and black. Why am I admitting this here? Because of that fact, the God of Darkness looks more intimidating, frightening and truly a God of Darkness when he's dark grey and/or black instead of jello purple. Especially in dragon form. When an error on my computer makes a being that's supposed to be the absolute amalgamation of darkness and destruction more intimidating in appearance than the creators did, then... *sigh* why did they make him purple instead of black again? Seriously, who knew a simple color change could define the fear factor and intimidation of a character.
I like how the RWBY fandom pitied Salem and said this... 'gOdS dOn'T uNdErSTaNd hUmAn fEeLiNgS' 'sAlEm iS iNnOcEnt' 'tHoSE gOdS aRe bAd!!111" Dude. They. Are fucking GODS. When a human does something terrible RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES. You REALLY think that they won't punish that person? Salem's Crimes: 1. Demanded to bring someone back to life and became salty when she didn't get what she wanted like a spoiled BRAT. 2. She LIED. TO FUCKING GODS. WHO CAN KILL HER WITH ONE SNAP OF THEIR FINGERS. 3. She tried to kill herself multiple times (suicide is a sin and its bad for you please do not do it anyone.) 4. She manipulated humanity into FIGHTING GODS. 5. After she became evil she started killing THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS...just because she was salty about her husband leaving her. This Character..is EVIL. she is not meant to be pitied, or to say things about her that is like 'It wasn't Salem's fault that she did this. The gods don't understand what she felt at that moment and faked their sympathy towards her.' the ONLY reason this character is meant to be liked is because she's a good villain. Not a good person.
This chapter was the most stupid shit I have ever seen in the series. Man, is like everyone is a deadbrain idiot. The season was going very good, but they have to ruin everything again. The writing is borderline insulting and lazy. That is like a cheaper version of Nanatsu no Taizai. I think we should rename then as Ozpizabeth and Saliodas XD. Been honest, I was expecting this kind of tragic love story. It was obvious and predictable, but I thought it would be more like one of then die and the other one cannot accept it, then goes with the god of darkness (a nice guy compared to what I was expecting). Also I did expect something more like Full metal alchemist, with Ozpin refusing to let her be dead and doing a deal with what was supposed to be the devil. Salem would be brought back to life but in a wicked way or something. Then, the god of light would curse Ozpin to make him fix his mess. Almost anything else would be better than this bulllshit of a chapter. But the thing that almost made go Berserk was the fact that they got married and had a family together. Man, that was horrible. Ozpin's real curse is being an idiot. Ok, this is far larger that I was expecting, but I really needed to express my opinion about this throne chapter. Anyway, keep the good work and I will be waiting for your next review. Bye! Pd: sorry if something is wrong, I am still learning English :•)
@TwisterKirby Yeah, I am fully aware that all what I mentioned in my comentarios are clichés. What I mean is that even if it is "original", it is being doing in a bad way. It doesn't explore the characters and their motivations. A lot of things just happen. ¿Why is Ozma a "hero"? ¿Why did he fight Salem's father? ¿He did it because he was a bad guy or he wanted Salem because she was powerful? ¿Was he entirely a "good guy"? ¿Why was he selected to fight Salem when surely there was another guy better than him? ¿Was he chosen by the gods before? Salem is stupid without reason. After a lot if time wandering the world she comes with a mediocre plan: Oh, I will take, like, 30 guys to fight gods powerful enough to create a world and give us magic. Yeah, they have no chance against me. Man, let's be honest, it was stupid. Clichés are not entirely bad when you use then in a right manner. We didn't need to see those guys having a family. Really, why? She was supposed to be an entity of pure evil and destruction, what she already was considering that her foolishness killed humanity. Also, why are they humans if they were exterminated by the god of darkness? They don't explain that. And where did the faunus come from? Why are they put into cages and treated like slaves? I don't know, it was never explained. Ozpin and Salem's past had enough material for an entirely season well explained. The problem is that they rushed the explanation and there are so many things that doesn't make sense because of that. I know the writers might be doing their best, but it is not enough. If they cannot pay attention to details, they should be replaced. They are not the only writers in the world. They had to use a forced character like D'jinn in a forced situation with Oscar telling them her name to summon her. The thing was forced just to finally explain the origin of this conflict. A good point is that Ruby is finally having some character development along with Blake. Not what I expected, but it is something. I hope to see something more about the secondary characters. I know that not all series can be as good as the last Airbender, but man, I just want a solid story. I won't tell that this episode has ruined the entire season, but has affected the way we see Ozpin and Salem.
Well here's one way you can stop or kill Salem. That device Ozpin was working on to transfer souls and a Maiden's magic to another person? Ozpin could probably use it to siphon off Salem's magic and use it as a containment box. It may even take her immortality because why not? Makes the best sense to me as it can take a person's entire being and put it in someone else (possibly as we only saw it work somewhat until Cinder showed up). If it doesn't steal her immortality then if you want to give it a bit more sense put her body inside of a robot like Penny and destroy her. A side bonus to make the world all peace loving and joyous is for them to try and contain Salem in that place where the Grimm dwell and make the containment indestructible to them so that they only focus on trying to free their new master.
Well thats the only solution. Render Salem powerless by removing her magic . Although there is a hole. Salem is grimmified she still has grimm powers meaning her magic is Half her potentialn
@@arnowisp6244 That's why I say it would make a great prison for the Grimm as well as they would try and break their new master and most if not all staying there to try and free her.
About Ozpins question, it looks more like Jinn aswers her question whatever way she pleases. When Ruby asked what Ozpin was hiding from them she picked up on the context and intent behind it enough to only tell the relevant bits. Cause clearly she didn't mean his porn stash or anything of the sort. But when Ozpin asks a question she gives only the literal answer, almost as if she aswers question in the way the most likely to upset Ozpin, it's really weird to me. It almost makes me feel like the gods are meant to be the bad guys, and maybe they are. Seriously i feel like the GOL only resurrected Ozma as a prank or something.
I should also point out the massive plot hole that this episode made. We learned that Ozpin can use magic. Therefore he never should've lost to Cinder in the first place, who _just_ got her full maiden powers and therefore magic. He's had more or less since the beginning of time (at least Remnants time) so there's no reason why he should've lost to Cinder.
Also I'm glad someone else caught the fact that Jin said he couldn't destroy Salem and to come up with a better question. And Jin said _you_ can't, doesn't mean someone else can't. How can Salem be destroyed/stopped is a better question. Because he asked how could he, as in, him personally.
I fell like Salem’s dad should have put magic on the door so Osma couldn’t get in it, I mean if they everyone has magic shouldn’t he have thought about if someone found the tower?
Plus no hoots given for their four daughters obliterated during their fight. Is this meta for messy divorces? I see the god of light and the god of darkness as characters, just because they’re “all-powerful” doesn’t mean I cannot. Learning that I’m an “experiment” by them would make me chuckle.
I definitely agree with some points, but I don’t agree entirely. Firstly, we’re only seeing a condensed version of events so there could have been things we didn’t see, like when you asked why Ozpin didn’t talk Salem down. It’s basically the cliff notes version, which I’m personally fine with. The generic story actually makes a lot of sense to me, given how the entire show is supposed to be a mash-up/reimagining of all the classic fairy tales. So it makes sense to me that what kicked the entire story off was a fairy tale. I do agree that the people saying the gods are idiots are wrong tho, because a) they’re gods, so they can do whatever the fuck they want, like you said, and b) as gods, nothing can touch them, so of course giving her immortality is a good choice in their mind. We watched her attempt to destroy them by assembling an army of every kingdom and the gods shrugged them off. They are not bothered by her because they cannot be physically bothered by her. I actually really liked the gods and their interactions. I appreciated that the god of darkness wasn’t an evil asshole like they usually are, plus it really felt like they were brothers with their petty squabbling. I like how Ozmas really only went back to earth because he wanted to see Salem, and I like how they actually do get back together and raise a family. You asked why Ozpin called his reincarnation a curse rather than a gift, but it’s very possible that what began as a gift slowly became a curse to him after many lifetimes of trying to stop Salem and failing. Sure, he asked how to destroy Salem instead of stopping Salem, but that seems like a distinction without a difference to me. If he can’t destroy Salem, or otherwise incapacitate her, then she will continue to divide humanity, meaning Ozpin’s one job is basically null and void. I personally do feel somewhat sympathetic towards Ozpin, given that his only wish was to see Salem again, and when that wish was granted, he realized she had become a monster. His continued failed efforts pushed him into deeper and deeper despair and has become the jaded, shifty man he is now. Salem on the other hand, I don’t really care for. I get her motivations, and I do think it adds a bit to her, given how her own hubris led to her downfall. However, she is still pretty generic. Also, something that always gets on my nerves when people talk about movies and shows is when they ask why characters don’t do a thing you would do as a passive viewer. The reason it gets on my nerves is because a character making a mistake is not inherently a mistake on the show’s part, it’s a mistake of the character. TL;DR I actually really liked the episode and I found some of your criticisms to be too pedantic and nit picky for my liking, but it’s definitely not a perfect episode, nor are you entirely off base with your complaints.
Yeah Vexed Viewer just seems to be jaded by the show at this point. The types of criticisms I can never except from people are those that complain about humans acting as humans would, and that's the kind of criticisms people like Vexed Viewer just love to use. "Oh they didn't do the smart thing. This is so stupid. They should have done the smart thing because obviously all humans are logical and never ruled by their emotions. That's absurd." I don't know why he keeps watching it... okay I do. Those sweet youtube clicks. Complaining about the presence of fairy-tale cliches in this show specifically is just... baffling to me. It's always been rooted in fairy-tales since the very beginning. Fun fact, this backstory was foreshadowed way back in volume 3. When Ozpin asked Pyrrha about what fairy-tales she knows of the first one she listed off was called "The Girl in the Tower". The story of Salem apparently exists as a fairy-tale.
@@jackmanleblanc2518 I honestly envy those who can just turn their brains off and enjoy generic and predictable plots. I really do. I know that the whole fairytale thing is referenced in RWBY, but why not have a plotline that the viewer can't guess right off the bat, or is that asking too much? Also, why is it such a stretch to assume that characters to have intelligence? Like did the kingdom's rulers think they had a chance against the beings that created them. And how would they achieve immortality if they DID manage to kill the gods? I myself was asking why the Light God brought back Ozma even though the whole reason why Salem was made immortal was to make sure that she would never see him again. I don't know why YOU'RE watching Vexxed when he doesn't share your opinion. Just because the story was foreshadowed doesn't make it any less disappointing and cliche.
@@DarkCircles698 The GoL brought Ozpin back to move the plot forward because the REAL CREATORS ( Miles and Kerry) realized late in animation that Ozpin was in the afterlife chilling.
Vexed Viewer I just want to say that team Rwby does somethings that arnt the best but they are still kids. I am not saying the discredits any “stupid” thing they have done but the are still at an age where the are still developing mentally. The may be growing in experience but they are still young.
I actually liked that it was basically filled with Fairy tale troupes. That’s what majorly inspired RWBY in the first place so I thoroughly enjoyed the typicality
There had been theories that dust are the remains of the magical powers that humans once had. So basically fossil fuel, except that instead of dinosaurs, we have magical humans.
I’m going to say what I said in other videos the backstory was sort of a mess, not terrible, but still a mess. Sure it has very nice elements but it’s held back by some inconsistencies Gods are inconsistent, they talk about balance between life and death yet grants Salem immortality, thus disregarding death, contradicting their claim How does Salem expect someone who is based on destruction create life, as in bring someone back? But to be fair she was desperate and was denied by the God of light so I’ll give it a pass Also her motivation on her “revenge” (if you want to call it that) is very childish considering she’s “smart”, someone died and she wanted hack powers to bring him back, Gods said nah, she decides to doom humanity (technically), what did she expect fighting all powerful beings? her motivation just seems ludicrous and how did Humans so easily fall for her deceit? sure she said that she stole it, but why would anyone believe her? in a world that has semblances and magic and power, she may as well have super healing, simply saying "humanity's heart are easily swayed" is very weak. She treats herself like she’s Job from the Bible or something The thing is we’re not given enough insight or time to care or understand the relationship between her and Ozpin for her to snap like a 8 year old child like that, we don’t get into her mental state at all. Alright the positives: the references are nice, the Gods interacting directly with Humans is possibly referencing mythology as well as the Old Testament from the Bible since they decide to no longer interfere with humanity like in the new testament. I like those touches to be honest, they're great. The biggest issue with this is that it’s very rushed and hard to believe, they want humanity to live in peace without them or they will be destroyed while there was little to no indication of peace when they were there, in fact there were many signs of conflict. So yeah overall it’s sort of a mess, but it has nice touches that stops it from being terrible, kinda mediocre overall. this had a huge potential of being great and amazing, but it was very rushed, and they had made things forced into the backstory (like the immortality) and created inconsistencies in the process Thank you for reading and have a nice day :)
Salem's immortality was originally supposed to be temporary, until she appreciates life and death. Maybe the brothers thought she'll start a family or something She got an army to spite the gods and goad them into killing her since she couldn't do it herself Semblances are apparently a semblances of the magic, so it is possible the magic system doesn't have individual-locked abilities. Plus Salem challenged them to kill her, and when Ozpin fought her she was literally turned to ash, so it is legit immortality and not just super healing. She could've tricked them by saying she snuck into the light domain and found an object that gave her immortality, and that they can all use this object as they please if they get the god of creation out of the way
@@shadowwhowalk that is a much better response than one stating "Gods are assholes who cares" so thanks friend! however it is still immortality, literally breaking the rules of nature and thus breaking balance, stating "oh she'll probably understand one day after we literally ruined her..." seems like humanly stupid thing to do there was no indication that Salem doomed humanity and made them fight Gods so they can kill her, it doesn't make sense at all, especially if you're making them fight a God of destruction as well semblances, by your headcanon, are pretty much parts of magic, which makes little sense because from what we see semblances work pretty much like magic if not even better... Ozpin turning her to ash is after the fight, and it is still regeneration when she heals from being turned to ash, unless every last particle of her got destroyed and she came back regardless but that would be reaching. ok let's go with she found an object that makes her immortal, wouldn't the Gods (all powerful beings btw) just take it away? why would they believe that she managed to sneak from all powerful and all knowing (it's how they created the relic of knowledge after all) Gods. unless they are so stupid enough to just believe anything she says with little evidence (little not none, again immortality, considering the world they live in, is simply not enough). and any person with some semblance of a brain would know fighting infinitely powerful beings (infinite being the word here) is not the best idea. thank you for the reply friend and have a nice day :)
Waaaaaait.... If Ruby's silver eyes can kill Grimm, which come from that icor, that black goo stuff, and Salem is evil because of the black goo stuff curupting her, does that mean they're gonna make ruby spam Salem with the silver eyes to purge the Grimm stuff out of her and then talk no jutsu her at the end? Because I feel like that's what they're gonna do.
This what ozpin could've said when he merged his soul with Oscar," God gave a gift, but as many life's I was in, to me it felt like a curse." That all the writers could of done! Nope do the must laziest way the ever done
"I can't say [the gods] are doing anything wrong; they're fucking gods. They're free to do whatever the fuck they want." THANK YOU I've been saying this for ages
Okay let me make this clear. I had a problem with the QUANTITY of fairy tale tropes and the ones that were used. It was super predictable and made the beginning of the story bland to me. Some old tales are based off of things that actually happened but usually what REALLY happened isn't so cookie cutter. They did NOT have to write it that way. I know that SOME of the characters are based off of fairly tales, that's irrelevant. It's not bad just underwhelming.
Vexed Viewer True but cookie cuter does not always mean bad. You can have the same tropes from fairy tails but have a twist to them. I believe the twist of this fairy tail was how Salem refused to accept the death of Oz.
Also, I believe she did have a solid plan because she realized one thing. If I can fool the gods then she can defiantly fool humanity. I also doubt she could fool the gods again. It would be like the saying: “Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you.” The idea that you can’t be fooled again.
And one more thing, I believe that one other reason that Oz kept this story hidden was because of shame. He was once a man who put the world before himself but when given a second chance to save humanity, he chose to be with Salem who wants destruction.
Also, we have to remember that when it comes to questions in shows. Hindsight is 20/20. We can’t just say that they should of asked x question when we are not in the characters place. When it come to destroy and defeat, destroying someone is defeating someone but not always when it comes to defeat. For the most part, defeat is normally used in the since of a physical since so it makes sense he would ask it in that way, they are seen as synonymous.
To many problems in this one episode, let me list them I just found.
1. Every character being that doe implant contradictions in their statements.
2. The point of Ozpins Resurrection.
3.The logic of humanity completely wiped out only to return out of no were.
4. The people fighting the gods just because of a selfish lady who is immortal.
5. The maidens as children that is given no personality.
6. The gods leaving in the first place as well as wiping humanity for no moral reason.
7.The point of the entire backstory.
8. Lazy Writing that contains large plot holes and clichés.
Andrey Santiago
1. Don’t know what you mean. May want to check spelling or explain more.
2.The point of his resurrection is to save the new humanity.
3. The idea is life finds a way. The idea that humans evolved from the word left by the gods.
4. They fought the gods for selfish reasons as well and the were mislead by Salem.
5.It was not confirmed that the children were maidens. They could have been inspirations for the maidens.
6.Gods do not view morals the same way. They are gods, they can do what the want. You would stop caring for an experiment if it fails.
7.The point of the backstory is to show what Oz is hiding. Rewatch the episode for more details.
8.What are the plot holes? If you are going to say that something is lazy, explain why.
If they're going to base ALL of their characters on fairy tale tropes then what's wrong with basing the origins of the world on one too?
I mean, the only predictable part about it was the beginning bit and it wasn't even the most interesting part. Plus they did enough to give it it's own unique spin and did a lot of things out of the norm too.
It's not like it's possible for any story or tale to be 100% original at this point in time so why not build on the thing the show was advertised over in the first place?
@@mangamandrew 1. Salem has just defied the gods for her own ego yet I feel she was given harsh punishment by killing everybody else and resurrecting Ozpin counters the gods plans to not be with Salem.
2. the god of light should have done the work to save humanity by him self with almost no effort don't you think?
3. How can humans exist without other humans if they were all killed except one, also Ozpin can't be resurrected if their are no humans on earth unless he can be reborn as animals.
4. I know that, I was trying to say is how dumb situation is and with out a good plan or reason.
5. The stories about the maidens could be fake because of Ozpin but just think about it, four females with super natural powers, has two god like parents. That can't be a coincidence.
6. The God of darkness is doing immoral acts but the god of light is doing nothing about this chaos?
7. This backstory is not given enough clearance on changing the fact that Ozpin has no plan to stop Salem and the grim possibly dooming the world with his own interaction with his loved one..
8.I already listed all the bad things in this episode, please understand.
Guess Salem didn’t want to pay for child support. 😂
Ozpin was the one who was going to take the kids in the divorce. Salem was the one who decided she'd rather just kill everyone then pay the lawyer fees in the upcoming custody battle.
That and he failed No Nut November...
Don't forget that Light told Salem he wouldn't bring Ozpin back to retain order.
Then he brings him back anyway.
I suppose Recarnation is a Different Story.. If Salem Asked him To Reincarnate Ozama.. Then Maybe it Could Work?
He brought him back after he called the planet a failed experiment, and after he said his brother's exterminatus was a tragedy
It is less running a planet and maintaing balance, and more "call me if you can prove humanity is worthy"
Reincarnation is likely the loophole of his own rules so its not dumb.
Whats dumb is choosing Ozpin rendering the reason for her punishment null and void. Like arent their like thousands of humans with no relation to Salem that are worthy for the task ahead?
Honestly it feels like this was done to move the plot forward.
To be fair, there wasn’t really an life left so the order was already fucked....
The whole balance thing went right out the window when he made Salem immortal. There is no balance, or there is one but it is very broad and can be played with without fear of consequences.
Ozpin's thirst was real.
4 little daughters from Salem. That's some thirst.
Y'all just jealous of his zombie waifu.
After saving her, he got sick the next day and couldn't bone. You'd be pissed too if you went through all that effort for nothing. "It's not fair."
So all they have to do is find Naruto and have him talk to Salem
jesse phipps sounds bout right. Or throw Goku in the ring with the Gods
Hes gonna make her have so many breakthroughs man
Sounds legit
They already have Jaune so they might be able to do that.
Just have Naruto and Sasuke seal her in the moon or something
The main thing that kind of annoyed about this episode was that out of all the people the gods could've resurrected, they chose Ozma despite the fact that they know Salem is still alive. Wasn't the whole punishment based around the fact that she could never see Ozma again until she learned about life and death or whatever? What's the point of trying to teach Salem a lesson if you take away her reason to give a shit in the first place? I can't be the only one who saw how stupid that was.
Agreed.
I highkey didn't even notice that. Everything else was so dumb maybe I subconsiously let it slide lmao
Goddamn it i swear this series is great at surface value, but broken on a deeper level.
If you think about it, the gods punished salem so she could learn the importance of life and death. However salem refused and instead turned everyone towards the gods which led the humans to their death. With Salem (the witch) growing in her power the god of light decides to send Ozma perhaps becuase she could learn life and death from Ozma's reincarnation?
I dont know. I dislike this episode as well. Im just throwing my 2 cents in it.
Maybe they were trying to be ironic by having her ex stop her?
This episode has a lot of "don't think about it" moments.
RWBY is practically made up of those moments
Rick: What about the possible future where Salem cures cancer?
"IT'S A CARTOOOOOOON!" - Miles(I think)
@@XDarkEcho Barbara you mean
I honestly feel bad for Ozpin and actually respect him a bit more now.
The man has been through hell: he died young from sickness, was ressurected and killed twice by the gods, was threatened with the annihiliation of his planet by the God of Light, found out that his beloved was immortal and corrupted by the God of Darkness, was a warlord for a while, realized that his wife wanted to commit genocide, probably witnessed the death of his children, and is now trapped reincarnating with his immortal ex-wife who has grown to loath him. He doesn’t believe that he can defeat Salem and probably doesn’t believe that the Gods will judge man favorably. So, in such an utterly horrific and impossible situation, what does Ozma do? He grits his teeth, and sets about protecting mankind from Salem for all eternity, because he genuinely believes that mankind deserves to live on Remnant, damn the Gods and damn Salem.
loafhero
I honestly think both sides have a point and neither Ozpin nor the rest of the group is 100% right or wrong here. Ozpin has some good reasons to keep secrets and not trust others, but he was wrong to lie to the others and make them think he had a plan to defeat Salem when all he is really doing is endlessly stalling for time. The rest of them were justified in their anger, but their emotions clouded their judgment and they refused to even listen to Ozpin's explanations or apologies and instead lashed out at the poor guy.
@loafhero considering how much emotional pain Ozpin is going through, I don't think we're not meant to have some sympathy for him. Besides, the volume's not even at his half-way point, so we don't know what the girls will do after expressing their frustrations.
William Harmon that comment seems familiar...almost as if most of it were from tvtropes...
Add the fact he was crying at the confrontation ( remember a grown thousand year old man crying) and the fact the he has so far shut down in Oscar's mind. ( Remember Oscar cant feel Ozpin anymore.) And yup the emotional pain is likely unbelievable.
@@MrRemicas I expect them to be b**ches to Ozpin until the volumes end. Most of the Volume should be done when the first episode aired meaning expect so much stupid for Vex to rant about.
He could of just spent hundreds of years boning Salem but nooooo, he had to have a conscience about people who will fight now matter what happens. Humanity will never find peace. He should have just accepted it and ruled as a god, even if they really weren't.
It's not even about "caring" either.He fucking KNOWS humans wont change,and could have went with salem to make a better humanity.Not to mention that these gods killed the entirety of humanity cause "fuck you thats why",making ozpins loyalty questionable at best.
Actually pretty dumb. Could have had eternity with his invincible immortal wife. Maybe the gods wanted to punish her then give her what she wanted after letting her despair, either knowing or not knowing the two would arrogantly split due to their own selfish interests....
@@Ay-xq7mj that would make sale even MORE fucked up.The gods taking pity on her and humanity only for her to fuck it up twice.Kinda makes you wonder how she functions as a person.
If you think about it thats could be torture or death by "snu snu" but then again he has reincarnation
@@Ay-xq7mj
The "god" of light knew how it would end up, he sent the man Salem "threw the world away" to bring back, with a mission knowing Salem hated him and everything to do with him.
I’m gonna bet that when Ozpin and Salem meet again they won’t even reflect on, or mourn over their, probably dead, children.
Thats no a bet thats a guareentee.
@@arnowisp6244 We know ozipn was already mourning in one of his lives
Well it was probably centuries ago.
"Or is it the fact that he's been boning women for centuries"
No wonder Oz uses a cane.
He barely survived Snu Snu
He barely survived Snu Snu
I think Oz and Salem need to visit Dr Phil
Omfg yes
Ya'll ever think that the first guy Ozma possessed didn't fight for control over his own body cause he got to bone Salem?
Wouldn’t you?
“Magic and a hot goth girlfriend? Fuck yeah!”
I don't mind the cliche fairy tale aspects. I think the point is served well enough that they had a fairy tale romance and everything should have been happily ever after ... Except not. It would have been nice to know what they grew to like about one another and more details about their dynamic, what they complete about each other etc, but in terms of plot relevance it's not that necessary, especially when that has nothing to do with the question Jinn was asked.
Salem was a princess who felt entitled to her happy ending and went on a tantrum when she couldn't have it, corrupted herself so that she could never have it, and is now the scourge of humanity. That's more or less good enough for me with character moments that can happen later to flesh out some of the gaps.
Joseph Ingram One person had a theory that she couldn’t accept death because losing Ozma and losing control of her situation was like living in the tower where she had to control of her life.
I loved the episode like I personally felt the way it was presented was like no other episode of Rwby but yeah... Salem was pretty dumb
I quite liked the episode because it feels like the writers are finally learning the idea of showing and telling rather than just telling. Maybe the back story has a bunch of holes in it, but it's a lot better than Qrow or Ozpin telling people to gather 'round the campfire to listen to a bedtime story that adds more tangles to the already spaghettied lore of the RWBY Universe.
Same
Honestly I feel like what you said was a much better option than what we got. Showing and telling may be an important rule but some things deserve to be unrevealed, and Jinns tactic of going to the past just seems too cheap and cliche for me, and that is forgetting the entire fairytale bullshit we got from this. Telling would make Salem more mysterious.
@@necromelodia2432 when most of the RWBY critics I've seen have been getting on the writers asses since v4 to stop constantly using dialogue for exposition and just show what they wanna say, I see this as them just responding to that. And idk I enjoyed this one, was visually appealing and I mean complaining about fairy tail tropes? Eh, I don't think it ruins much, the general point of Oz and Salem being former lovers got across, they were just going for a storybook like approach I guess
You forgot to mention that the reason the moon is in pieces is because the gods bumped into it on their way out of earth. *slow clap* great reveal RT well worth losing the mystery.
Yeah it was such a disappointment I forgot about it. lol
Excuse me?
GTGAMERZ you’re all complete idiots
GTGAMERZ
I think he destroyed the moon as a reminder of their failed experiment and Salem's folly. Even if humanity comes back with no knowledge of what transpired in the past, the scar of the old era will still remain. That's how I see it anyway.
Yeah, but it's underwhelming, I actually hate this plot line alot cuz the show is taking itself way too seriously
Ozpin: "How do I defeat Salem?"
Jinn: "Talk no jutsu."
*Salem *Jinn
@@knockthefuture Was tired when I wrote this, but going to correct this. Thanks
@@ObviousHUN yw
The "ask Naruto" bit KILLED me lmaoooo Great video man
Especially because naruto would totally talk-no-jutsu Salem into being a good guy.
God of Light when Salem wanted Ozma ressurected: "Let him rest"
Also God of Light: ressurects same person who he said to let rest and was the cause of this whole thing in the first place
It's basically just a failed High School relationship
Am i the only one whose biggest problem with this epsode is how shit the moon origin is. Oh god of darkness just was flyong throught ot on his way out. I mean what absolute waste of buildup. It makes no sense that god of darkness made magic because he hated humanity, its the exaxt reason why he made the Grimm, because he cant make anything as good as his brothers, so he makes something tgat destroys everything his brother makes. Salem is also like super dumb because she completly ignores what god of light said. He said "until you learn the meaning of life and death, then you may rest." So instead of wasting her time assembling humanity she could have just spent said time trying to reunite with ozpin.
This episode was more underwhelming that badly written, which is honestly better than the volume of pure shit that is V5
Agreed.
Idk if anyone has brought this up, but my theory is that the dust is possibly the remnants of the first humans that the god of darkness destroyed. They were capable of pure magic and now their ashes have hardened into crystal dust, which allows non-magic people today to use magic.
probably.
"Dust - the fossilised bones of the first humanity. SDC processed so you know its quality. Buy now."
Tell me I am not the only one who is thinking the SDC is using fossilised people in this senario as magic dust.
Haha, kinda expected this kind of reaction (can I get a like for every time VV says "wench" in all of his vids? 😅). The gods were petty AF though.
Doesn't really surprise me that the Gods were petty. Seems to be the case with most Gods in mythology.
Eh, I don't like this episode, but I'd say humanity trying to kill the gods is justifiable grounds for wiping them out. And the God of Light seemed like he was just trying to uphold order and the rules he and his brother made, to me, he felt more uncompromising and principled than petty. Still, you could say the God of Darkness was petty for bringing back Ozpin only to kill him when he realized Salem only went to him after his brother said no.
@@nmjjmn663 I will agree that the God of Light was at least a bit more reasonable. Before his brother wiped out all the humans he seemed to turn away knowing what was about to come. At the very least knowing humanity would one day return he at least left the with a chance at redemption.
I'm sorry but Light bro isn't getting off that easily.
He lets Dark bro kill EVERYONE. How is that upholding order? Why not kill off the attacking party? Why not erase their memories? Why does the citizen have to suffer?
He revives Ozma, the very same person he didn't want to revive in the first place. So Why him? Light bro knew Ozma has a relationship with Salem; it would make Ozma emotionally comprised to do the quest.
The mission he gave to Ozma is impossible. Unite humanity? Do faunus count? What kind of level of harmony are we talking about? What do you do about criminals? What about people who don't agree with your ideals?
Don't forget that he throws Dark bro under the bus when he was talking to Ozma.
@@btrando1
The show's a little unclear, but if I recall correctly, Djinn said Salem turned _humanity_ against them, not just some of them or a few of them, most of if not all of them would have to be either involved or supportive of the idea for that statement to be right. And erasing their memories feels unnecessary, if someone tries to kill you, I'd say you're not obligated to show them any mercy. Also there _is_ an afterlife, meaning if any innocents got caught up in the God of Darkness' attack they'd presumably go to the equivalent of heaven.
You're right on the second point, while you could argue Ozma was the only one capable or willing, or that the God of Light cared about humanity and wanted to give them a shot at redemption, even if it meant breaking the rules, the show never clarified and it does feel contradictory judging from what we'd seen before.
Also, technically, Salem _did_ unite humanity, against them, which would mean it's possible. He should've mentioned the faunus though.
I'm glad Vex actually said something bad about this episode! A lot of other theorists were only pointing out the good
Edit" Also 2:45 the music in the background is so great! It fits so well lol
@loafhero "Other theorists" Vexed viewer isn't a theorist.
My favourite thing about this episode is that it once again highlights how completely irrelevant the Faunus are to the main story, and that most likely wasn't even intentional.
Underwhelming is the right word. I don't think it was bad, I'm glad we actually came to understand Salem and Ozpin more, and also now have an idea of the endgame.
I have some sympathy for Salem now, even though I agree she's the one mostly at fault for not looking past what she wanted for herself, her decisions making things worse and worse.
On Oz's part though, I agree they could have made him do more wrongs.
Sad thing is the endgame seems like just them sitting in a room trying to convince salem that life and death is important.
They took what should've been awesome and made it cliche and honestly despite the fact that it's still a morally gray scenario it's still relatively black and white. *sighs*
I'm pretty sure it was meant to seem like a fairy tale, you know RWBY with the fairy tale stuff.
@@tyrianprotectionsquad8938 But they failed, its no fairy tale
@@arnowisp6244 how so?
@@SuperDeadzombeh Fairy tales have a morale to them. There was no morale. You don't need a tragic love story to tell a fairy tale, you don't need a love story at all, and it makes everyone involve come off as children. Most fairy tales have more competence
@@skylermaves7272 A fairytale turned sour then. Give better arguments other than cliche.
Those poor kids, man...
I’mma take solace in the fact the FF.net archive will absolutely do a much better job. (shout out to The Name of the Game by literalsin!)
@@NekoKujo6785 What is name of the game? Also I would love to see good fanfics.
The Name of the Game is - to put it simply - what I wanted to see from RWBY. There's really too much to go through, so I recommend to look it up for yourself and see what you think (Just a warning though: chapters get loooooong)
So I wonder what this all be avoided if she just went to the god of Darkness to resurrect ozpin.
the brothers would both still be fighting. lol
>>know and hate
Ive unironically thought Salem was hot af since she was introduced
Proudly agree
Vexed, I like your videos a lot, and most of your criticism is more than valid and I definitely feel that it will continue to be helpful in improving the writing of this show, but I disagree with a lot you had to say here.
For example, you talk about how stupid and arrogant it is for Salem to have tried to bring Ozma back to life, and to challenge the gods, and that it was also stupid for Ozma to come back and fall in love with Salem again despite being warned by the god of light that she is not the woman she once was, but isn't that the point? These were emotional decisions, not logical ones. Humans are flawed, and they make mistakes. Sometimes, as in this case, they make dumb decisions so great that they harm and haunt them for the rest of their lives, even if their hearts are in the right place. I feel that is what happened here. Salem couldn't accept the fact that she lost her love in such a way, and would do anything to get him back because it just was unjust and unfair. This is how many people feel during grief, they blame the world for the injustice it caused them, and would do anything and everything to get their loved ones back. I did pity her, I did empathize with her.
A lot of your points seem to rely on the logical fallacies in these characters (which in most of your videos are more than valid with this show, trust me I know lol), but here I feel they were intentional, and made sense in the context of these characters and the story. That doesn't mean that this was necessarily perfect, jury is still out on that haha, we will have to see where the volume goes from here.
Thank you! I agree completely. For the vast majority of the criticisms people bring up with this episode to be valid you have to strip humans of their emotions completely and turn them into unfeeling robots that only make the most logical decisions. The most annoying this about it is that this isn't the first and it won't be the last time people do this. It's ridiculous how often people make this mistake when criticizing fiction.
No I never said it was stupid for Ozma to comeback I said I have no sympathy for him. That's a big difference.
I dunno man, my ability to sympathize with Salem ended around the time she got humanity exterminated over her grudge with the gods. You don't drag people into your personal shit if you can help it, and Salem should've realized that people all around the world have to deal with loss and grief, she and Ozma aren't special just because she wants to be. It's not about being emotional or unemotional, it's about being mature and having the wisdom and emotional strength to understand and accept that there are some things that are just going to happen no matter what you might want, and Salem lacked that emotional strength and maturity, and everyone paid the price for her failings.
@@badjuju8624 I think that's the point. I didn't see this as a "Salem's tragic past weep for her" this looked like a "Salem had her heart in a good place at first but fucked up and is going too far in her selfishness" kinda backstory. And the big reveal that makes Oz look bad is that he's essentially doing what many are mad at Salem for doing in the flashback, bringing ppl into a fight that they can't win as far as we know and losing their lives for it. He had the choice to stay dead but he rushed back to life for an understandable but selfish reason and it led to all this unnecessary sacrifice
This is the problem with Salem's backstory. She was supposed to be a villain only after the dip in the Grimm pool, but she's behaved like a villain the entire time. Going to be hard to redeem that character... which is the only way she can be defeated, apparently.
What's really interesting about this backstory is that it simultaneously sets up a sympathetic backstory yet botches it in equal measure. There are moments where the gods demonstrate potential flaws in their character but Salem at no point calls them out on it.
This leads me to believe that Miles and Kerry were completely focused on using this as a "Ozpin's past mistake" story but they couldn't even do that particularly well either, unless Ozpin's mistake was trying to bail on her ASAP rather than try to talk her down.
Ozpin:hey sweety,can we NOT rule over humans?
Salem:Why not?
Ozpin:Because then things will get worse......again.
Salem:ok.
And thus the world was saved by a 5 minute conversation.
What was Oz even supposed to do? The writers made Ozpin dumb / incompetent at worst. He didn't have to hide everything that he did when none of it made him look bad. Otherwise what should he have done? Sit there and whine that he can't find a way to kill the woman he loved? At least he is trying to keep her from summoning the gods and torching humanity again. What, is that not good enough?
He is tricking people to join him by giving them false hope and making them think he knows what he is doing, when he is just making things up on the go
On the other hand, Remnant is screwed if Ozpin has a lot less people to recruit, and the ones who join up have a defeatist atitude
What shadow said. And besides, there could be more to this story that we have yet to see, if they're willing to pull a Billy Mays down the line and we get Salem's recollection of the events or something
Why didn't Ozpin tell Salem about the god of light's message when he met her?
Didn't the original writer die half way though volume 2. What i mean is that this probably wasn't even a part of the plan the and as a result Ozpin is retroactively made stupid by things that weren't even a planned part of the Series yet.
Hallow Venixya
He died halfway through volume 3 or so but it's not very clear how much was or wasn't planned
I liked this episode but i completely agree with the points you made,i still like the episode but now i see it in a different perspective great job Vexed!😀🎊
On a positive note I do like the explanation for why the gods are aloof. Humanity is just a science experiment for them. They look at Humanity with only slightly more care and concern then you would give a lab rat. Doesn't change the disappointment but that part wasn't bad.
@Vexed Viewer While I probably disagree with how sympathetic Salem should be (even though it's kinda underwhelming in the grand scheme of things), I am glad that you pointed out how stupid Salem and Ozma's plans are, especially Ozma's. It frustrates me how no one else will point that out.
I mean, looking at Salem's POV, you can see that due to her upbringing, she is an emotionally stunted womanchild that lacks the coping mechanisms to deal with loss and loneliness, who can't even comprehend the idea of "keep moving forward". Oz and the Gods don't know because they assume she's an ordinary woman. And chances are, I'd probably be also guilty of doing the same thing - bringing back someone to life if there ever was one. So I won't fault her there, even though I understand that the entire situation is supposed to vindicate the idea of "keep moving forward."
I do think that from the rebellion onwards, she needs a hug - and a massive smack on the head to get through to her the idea of taking personal responsibility.
Still, I'm surprised RWBY didn't get the hint that Salem can't be destroyed through brute force even though they knew she was immortal from the get go. And if Oz has done nothing wrong, why hide any of it?
Now, for defenders of Ozma who think Salem can't be talked down, we don't see that onscreen, and thus we can assume that he hasn't tried that option yet. All he needs is to frame his words correctly.
Salem, at this point, has enough mental fortitude to brood in a rundown shack for countless eons by herself, despite the fact that she hates being alone. She remains calm and composed instead of breaking down like a raving lunatic, unlike most other people. She has enough empathy in her to suppress her urges around her family, including her daughters. I mean, have you seen her being proud that their daughters can do magic? And Oz already has an idea on how she thinks given that she told him her life story at this point in time. What Ozma needs to do is to frame his arguments that would make sense in her mind.
He could argue that if she tries to exterminate the infidels and heretics, or purge every apostate that refuses to worship their "religion", she would be no different than the Gods who cursed her - which would give some kind of pause. I mean, if he frames it as her punishment would create more people who were bitter and angry like her, and that she should do something different to avoid this.
Of course, he might also make an emotional appeal about their daughters by saying that her genocidal ideals would make their daughters unhappy, or that their worshippers are just like her and their daughters who deserve to live happy lives for a change, even if they don't necessarily agree with them.
If he succeeds, Ozma and Salem can continue uniting humanity and maintain their relationship.
Even if he fails, it still shows the viewer that he's actually exhausted every option, so they can't fault him for trying at this point. Instead, because they don't try to have him use these specific arguments first, we are led to believe that Oz simply took the kids away and did nothing else without exploring every possible action first.
Also, I agree that Salem's backstory is kinda disappointing because I am doing everything in my power to try and sympathize with her, but she does some of the most stupid and cringeworthy shit that deflates it. I was expecting Ozpin to curse her to be this Grimm woman, intentionally or by accident and that the Gods would forcibly reincarnate him as punishment until he fixes his shit. Then Oz would have a legitimate reason to hide from RWBY, and Salem's sympathy wouldn't be undermined by her own stupidity.
@Xavier Alexander The show does a terrible job of SHOWING it. WE are left with the impression that Oz didn't try any other solution first BEFORE taking the kids away. WE are sent this mixed message, and left with this idea. It goes double because Oz KNOWS FROM HER OWN ACCOUNT HOW SHE TELLS HER SIDE OF THE STORY and how she perceives herself as the victim of the Brothers WAY BEFORE THIS.
He knows she thinks the Gods were dickheads in separating the two of them, he knows based on her pride in their daughters' magical prowess that she cares deeply about them.
Oz knows HOW SHE THINKS. If he can argue his viewpoint to benefit Salem AS WELL, further conflict can be avoided.
@Xavier Alexander If he'd just talk to her FIRST, so much bloodshed would not occur.
He could argue that her megalomania would hurt the girls by causing massive resentment in them and take away their happiness and what's best for her daughters, which in turn, WOULD CAUSE HER GREAT SUFFERING, GIVEN THAT THEY ARE HER PRIDE AND JOY. That is something she wants to avoid.
He could also argue that purging mankind in favor of her own master race WOULD MAKE HER NO DIFFERENT THAN THE GODS WHO "SCREWED HER OVER" AND STRIPPED HER OF HER HAPPINESS AND FREEDOM. I doubt she would be very happy to realize the hypocrisy in her plans.
But no, despite knowing just how she HATES being alone, Oz just HAD TO TRIGGER HER ABANDONMENT ISSUES LIKE THE DUMBASS HE IS.
“You demand me to bring him back which I cannot do” proceeds to bring him back
I kind of tuned out when Cinder started showing up this Volume. I’m not very excited as to what’s coming next.
@VolTron 2019 Does anyone actually cares about it?
@VolTron 2019 cinder is a joke at this point
You're not alone there. The moment I saw Cinder, I was tempted to just skip the whole scene. Let her die already and get Hazel to adopt Emerald and Mercury please.
@@amoil6537 you know what worse? I think they gonna make her kill someone of our favourite characters just to show how "dangerous" she is...if i would place a bet it would be neo
@@nikolasferreira3247 oh no, that would be my worst fears realised. The moment I saw her silhouette on the poster and her showing up in the opening, I was scared how "relevant" she was going to be this volume.
ps, if Neo dies by the hands of this poor excuse for a villain, I will spew and riot.
I feel like the REAL key detail from all that lore that Oz was trying to hide was the “All 4 Relics Together = Judgment Day/Doomsday” part.
Like, Oz has been making a big deal about needing to find all the relics ASAP, but now it seems like he’s only wanting to do that because he’s given up on his original mission of restoring humanity, and knows that “All 4 Relics + Divided Humanity = Complete World Erasure”.
Other than that, I agree with Vexed’s assessment. Everything past Ozma’s death-by-sickness was very predictable and “eh”, but still fun to watch. Everything before that was pretty dull and uninspired to me, though.
7:53-7:56 needed this laugh today lol
It makes sense actually, only Naruto's Jesus no jutsu can stop Salem lol
I stopped caring for RWBY after season 5
They both loved each other too dame much. A classic u made terrible decisions cause of the ones u loved.
They're both victims of isolation.
Salem was isolated until someone freed her. I liked that
But her refusal to let her love one go led to further isolation in an immortal body.
And ospin is trapped in....a infinite loop of life and death reincarnated as the same person with a different body that isn't his.
Maybe I'm overly hopeful and easily pleased.
But I was happy with this episode and I feel for both of them.
There dicks but still.
Well ok its mainly salem who's a dick. Ozpin is slightly less of a dick.
I bet they'll end up using Salem as a tool, by introducing her to humanity as a threat that needs to be eliminated, which will unite everyone in the world against her. Then our heroes will bring all four relics together to summon the gods back into the world. After which they'll judge humanity as "united", get rid of Salem, introduce magic back to the world and everyone will live happily ever after.
The story becomes very predictable when there's an abundancy of fairytale elements.
I got a few words about this episode.
1) I lost it when they were really drawing back arrows trying to kill a literal god and the god of darkness ate it up.
2) I love how Salem pulled a Medea and killed her own kids. Like girl, do your breathing exercises it will be okay.
3) The gods were a mood for me this episode because when shit went south they fucking dipped lmao.
4) TBH Salem could've just killed herself to be with Ozma when he first died. He's clearly her only reason for living and there's a confirmed afterlife sooooooo. I know that's dark, but highkey that's what she should've done.
5) Ozpin, how you gonna spend entire lives in mourning. I get your kids died, but you gotta get over that eventually. It shouldn't take over 100 years. Like you gonna possess this man's body and give him and yourself liver failure, FOR WHAT?
Through all the shit, I'm going to take something good from this episode. Guys, cope in productive ways. Don't get liver cancer, kill your kids, or try to kill gods. Do your breathing exercises and maybe some of the good kush on occasion. 😊
Lamp = Knowledge
Crown = Choice
Staff = Creation
Sword = Destruction
I fine it funny how hard V6 Ch3 really drives in what the foundation of the plot is... aka gather the macguffins to summon/prevent the summoning of higher beings (that have dragon forms too). I kinda liked the maiden's but like Watts said they're just a means to an end now: their essentially possess 1/4 of Oz's true power yet Oz's true power couldn't beat Salem thanks to her immortality and then even their power, pales in comparison to the gods...
I feel like the maidens importance to the story has been shafted to just being glorified keys now...
I still liked V6 Ch3 but I'm still not sure if I'm fan of the direction Rwby's taking (according to RT V6 Ch3 was supposed to be longer but was cut short yet its still one of the longest episodes yet... so I'm wondering what was cut?, I feel like WoR might need to comeback imo).
RWBY is like the Greek Legend of Icarus.
Flew too close to the sun then ended up crashing and failing spectacularly due to sheer stubbornness and lack of good judgment.
Thank God I am watching Daredevil Season 3 over the train wreck known as "EWBY" (as my girlfriend calls it).
Bullseye / Benjamin Poindexter / Dex is a far more interesting and sympathetic villain than Salem.
You're not watching a show you don't like. Wow you deserve a medal.
@@Rugybrat
Ah, what a "mindful" retort.
Let me indulge you, good sir/ma'am.
You're wasting your time being sarcastic and bitter on the Internet because you're probably some punk kid with no direction in life who indulges in dreadful writing from untalented and unintelligent people like yourself.
You deserve a Darwin Award. 😉
@@Rugybrat
Oh, and I (did) get a medal recently.
From a National Arnis/Filipino Martial Arts tournament here in the Philippines that I joined.
So while I appreciate the offer (you) might need that medal more than I do, Bub. 😁
@@KamenRider1 ...Weird ass flex, but okay.
I personally believe making this 2 episodes would have helped fix some problems like the cliche and expand on the story. Instead telling us they where madly in love, show us it and it might have been less cliched.
I am more concerned as to how all it took was a beggar to cause Gods to conflict and some stupid ideas to cause humanity to be wiped out.
There are rumors going around that the daughters were the original maidens. If that's the case, then this retcons the World of Remnant episode. There, Ozpin said he met the girls by chance and that was when they first got their powers. The daughters having the powers means they either survived Salem's tantrum or, somehow and assuming Salem wasn't the only woman that was in their final thoughts (remember, that's the only rule to getting another maiden's power without the grimm glove) or reincarnated into new hosts with the abilities.
The only way this can't be a retcon is if the original maidens recieved his powers because they REMINDED him of his daughters and that's it.
Fal'cie curses Humans for no reason. RWBY is now a Final Fantasy FNC spinoff. we did it yall. I'm done with RWBY. if anyone needs me im gonna be trying to make Dead Fantasy into a video game.
They'll all be norted soon and time travel too......
So guys, we did it...
It all comes full circle!
@@kevin13cabello NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Man, you know a story has hit rock bottom when it shares elements with ff13. ...Oh god, it even has Qrow giving a haymaker to Ozpin ( Oscar) in the next episode.
And Salem still lacks any intrigue despite a flashback episode on her past. Because we still don't have even a tentative answer to the most crucial question: What does she want?
To die?
I know you're not focusing on the Gods, and while I honestly think the Gods are cool, they do contradict their own "God system" they made for themselves for some weird reason.
Light God to Salem: "Sorry, can't bring him back because it'd destroy the balance of life and death lel"
God of Darkness brings him back, Light God: "Bro wtf you can't bring her back to life think of the balance"
Dark God after Salem attacks: "Kill their whole race, a few dozen of them done pissed me off."
Light God: "You go bro"
Like I understand that Salem attacked one, but it's not like it was remotely a threat...
Well when he brings Ozma back the original "experiment" is over. Now he is starting a new experiment with Ozma.
This doesn't make their actions any less contradicting. Or stupid. @@VexedViewer
@@VexedViewer
No the "experiment" was over the moment they gave Salem immortality.
The dark brother killed everyone but Salem so how did people come back?
Natural evolution
What andres said. The god of light DID tell Ozpin that humanity would eventually resurface.
@@jackmanleblanc2518
But how? Didn't the gods create humanity? If so, did they recreate humanity from their after leaving?
@@DarkCircles698 Evolution. Duh. It's pretty simple. Either way, who really cares? The god said that humanity would eventually resurface. Humanity eventually resurfaced. Because god said they would. And what god says goes. Obviously.
@@jackmanleblanc2518
I wish I had that same attitude whenever I ask questions.
"Who really cares."
That's why Salem's *cruel father* locked away her in tower.
I feel like your videos express what everyone thinks, but you're the only one who will say them lol.
Not really it's just that he is one of few RWBY youtubers (fatmanfalling is one off the top of my head) who looks at things in a constructive way, other people just want don't want to criticize or they don't add any constructive tips and just shit on RWBY and take advantage of backlash for views. That right there doesn't really add much to improving the show and putting it in this format leads to growth. Just look at Vol4 through V6 massive dip and only improving after backlash.
I mean even if you look at this video which is mostly negative, he clearly states where why he is dissatisfied.He was unsympathetic toward Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. It focused heavily on these characters but if you didn't like them there was no reason for you to change your mind. He's clearly coming from the point of someone with no power and know his place, gods can do as they please because they have all the power and no change of mind for someone who is still trying to kill humanity. And the dude who is constantly lying and still sending ordinary people like us to their deaths, yet still not leveraging his power to force humanity to confront Salem. Plus let's face Ozpin is still going to be a pussy and lie like a mofo, I mean he's still not talking about the silver eyes which i'm sure is part of his secret plan to confront Salem.
I didn't agree with a lot of this.
@@jeremycole2164 i agree with what you're saying but other than the relic of knowledge and about Leo (which i think was a good idea since if he told the truth about Leo sacrificing huntsman and huntresses and helping Cinder infiltrate Beacon, people would hate the faunists even more since Leo is a faunist and is supposed to protect an teach people) when did Ozpin lie and what group of people did he send to their deaths?
@@Kratosinferno19 He's been lying this whole journey and although sending people to their deaths is a bit of an exaggeration because they would still need to fight the Grimm. Besides ozpin should have kept people stay in check to prevent groups like the white fang from forming in the first place.
@@jeremycole2164 Honestly, I agree with what Ozpin is doing, sure it seems harsh but telling the world that humanity could be doomed and an evil being is hiding in the shadows manipulating and killing people would be an extremely terrifying truth that alot of people even trusted huntsman and huntresses wouldn't be able to take without forming negative emotions which would only entice Grimm to attack. It's smart to only have an inner circle of people to know some of the truth if not all of it. The deal with Qrow not knowing the full truth was because Ozpin was afraid that he would leave too if he knew that he didn't have a plan, imo anyway at least. I wouldn't say he lied, he just keep some secrets to himself until it was the right time to bring the out.
I like how the gods are just standing there like the "You know he had to do it to em" meme lol.
Semblances are easy to explain thanks to this episode, and it did it nonverbally, why everyone has one. It rather goes with the name of Remnant. Think about it; semblances are obviously supernatural powers. What was magic? A supernatural power. What did humans used to have? Magic. What happened? Humans came back with only a fraction their power, a remnant of the past. Resulting in scattered powers across humans. It also explains Aura, and why it exists. It's a remnant of Humanity's past.
I would agree, as do many. With the names of the world being Remnant, it seems pretty obvious. But with RWBY, and how a lot of established concepts were changed from previous volumes, it's better to have the show or writers say where or how semblance and aura came to be directly.
Yeah but the entire humanity was wiped out because Salem stupidity so....I still dont get it man
What's the difference between magic and semblance? What makes them different? If semblance is just weaker magic then why is it called a semblance? And why is it that people have all different types of semblance and why they're all different? Aura wasnt explained either. What is aura and how does it comment to the soul? Where was that answered
@@BabyGirlTiny Simple, this episode. I'll go in order of your questions.
- What's the difference between magic and semblance/if semblance is just weaker magic, then why is it called a semblance?
-- Magic had many forms, powers, and effects (controlling the weather, levitation, telekinesis, cryokinesis, electrokinesis as far as I remember from Amber's fight with M.E.C) and probably could have been learned and utilized by anyone the first time around (Before the world was wiped of humans). Semblance is very similar to magic, but again, a semblance's power is only a fraction of what magic was capable of, hence its name. It's a RESEMBLANCE of magic. Ruby can burst into rose petals, manipulate her speed and such, Pyrhha had magnetism, Nora can harness electricity, etc. etc. but their power can only grow within those boundaries pretty much. Nora's semblance is going to revolve around electricity, Ruby'll revolve around speed and Pyrhha'd only revolve around magnetism. Ruby'll never be able to use magnetism or utilize electricity with her semblance.
- Why is it that people have all different types of semblance?
-- Think about it. Humans came back with only a fraction of what they were capable of.
"In time, humanity will walk the planet again, but without our presence, they will be but a fraction of what they once were."
"If your kind can live in harmony with one another, and set aside your differences, my brother and I will live among you, and humanity will be whole again."
Humanity needs to be brought back together, in unity. What's a good way to divide the power and bring them together? Give everyone different powers. I'll give a common, widely known allegory, an MMORPG dungeon group.
Usually consisting of one Tank, a Healer, and dedicated Damage Dealers. The Tank has powers to hold a monster's attention and protect the Healer and Damage Dealers, Damage Dealers can flank and attack from different angles, and the Healer keeps everyone alive. A Tank alone can't stay alive and kill things. A Healer will never be able to kill anything on their own. Damage Dealers might kill one thing or two, but will never be able to take on the dungeon by themselves.
Same thing with semblances. Sure, Jaune can heal others and boost someone else's semblance to empower it, but he doesn't have much in the way of a combative semblance. Ruby would be an evasive damage dealer. She can zip around and attack from several different angles. Blake's a trickster, her Shadows can throw an opponent off and leave them open. Alone, yes, they're competent fighters that can hold their own, but if they work together, they can work off each other's powers and be more effective. So it's to bring people together as a group.
- What is Aura and how does it come from the soul?
-- I think it bounced back and forth a little from misinformation over the years (both in-lore and in IRL development) but basically, Aura's just another fragment of the magic humans once had. It's a shielding/sense that everyone could and still can learn to utilize and make stronger. Magic was attached to Amber's aura or essentially, her soul, "Aura is the manifestation of our soul - everyone has it, even animals - the creatures we fight lack a soul (and therefore, Aura) and it was how Ozpin was going to transfer Amber's power to Pyrrha. "We can transfer what those powers are bound to. - Her Aura (SOUL)" "We can't guarantee it'll work, or even if you'll be the same person afterward." (Who has significant experience with a soul taking over someone else?)
In summary
Semblance - 1/500th the magical power humanity once had, different for everyone possibly to promote unity and camaraderie. Special exceptions where some strains of semblances are hereditary. (Weiss family glyphs and their menagerie of uses and powers)
Aura - A magical power humanity was allowed to keep as the power came from souls in the first place, and was pretty much needed to combat the creatures of Grimm.
Also, funny note, we got the Maiden's power is connected to her soul in Volume 3 episode 6, we got this explanation in Volume 6 episode 3 :P
It's always hard for me to judge something immediately after I see it. It's kind of impossible. I have to let it mull over a bit before I can do any in-depth critique. Kind of a pain when it comes to RWBY.
That Thanos snowglobe crush was pretty cool, though.
You are the first person I’ve seen to point out Ozma’s terrible phrasing of that question. I didn’t even catch it myself. I may not agree with some of your opinions, but I’m sticking around to hear more from possibly the smartest person in the community.
thanks.
Wasn't really the first person I heard it from.
But not many people picked that up
Litterally everyone on youtube, twiter, tumblr and shit has already pointed this out. Stop pretending guys.
Rughjnnyuhbgg not anybody I’d seen at the time of the comment. I have seen a few more since, but that doesn’t make the original comment untrue.
Ruby knows talk no jutsu, they go defeat Salem *right now*
Thanks for your honest opinion Vex I was mostly disappointed about how the moon is broken I mean seriously what a let down -_- so yeah like Unicorn of War said not worth the five year wait all though I didn't get into RWBY until 2015 but I digress still loved the episode tho
What did you expect?
@@Rugybrat Ozpin and Salem having an epic god like battle on the moon like Naruto vs Toneri or maybe connected to silver eyes or dust but nope none of that didn't happen
So it's a gender-bent version of
*SPOILERS*
Nanatsu no Taizai?
Plus War of the Roses.
I really like that the God Bros were super nice to each other, though the God of Life and Death are kinda cliche, but I like how the bros respectfully talk to each other and rectify shit immediately.i do feel like Salem could’ve started everything, have to be that she started the brothers died, they made dust and semblances to empower their sides, Life brings back Ozpin in a fit of rage so that he will tirelessly hunt down Salem. Have the brothers realize their mistake and then leave humanity to it’s perceived ruin, only for humanity to be reborn and thrive.
I hate it when stories do the "bad God of death" and "good God of life" thing. It especially annoys me when it's inspired by greek mythology and they make Hades look like Satan.
I can respect the decision to make a God of death not have the personality of an evil murderer.
In Ozpin's defence, technically yeah he was cursed(if it were only him and not with Ozma and the others)
Of course, that's because he didn't have a say in him getting possessed by Ozma
But if it were all of them, then yeah, Ozma would have to take most of the blame
I'm not trying to push that Ozpin's a good person, I'm just saying that technically he _was_ cursed. Just not if he were speaking about Ozma as well
Salem is sympathetic because unless you're a sociopath you can understand why a person who JUST lost their love probably isn't going to want to hear "lol get over it"
x1000 in a world where ressurection is ACTUALLY possible because literal gods walk the earth
also how would salem know that there is an afterlife if the gods didn't mention it until AFTER they made her immortal?
meanwhile the gods prove the rules aren't that important by breaking them without consequence and claiming humanity is meaningless so who gives a fuck about teaching salem a lesson or the natural order? just revive ozma and tell her to fuck off or kill her and be done with it.
it's just dumb to place all the blame on salem for being human (how on earth did you expect her to know that all the humans on earth could be life wiped in one move by the gods anyway? how would anyone know the precise limitations of the gods?)
It's in the name: GOD. Meaning no limit
Those were my thoughts too. If I were in their place I would of just revived him, and possibly place a time limit, or just killed her so she could at the very least join ozma in the afterlife. Unless they're saying she would have somehow rebelled in the afterlife for some reason and do something? Idk lol
@@kevin13cabello Or she could have just killed herself
@@SmoothAsUsual47 gods are limited if they aren't omnipotent though
I hardly doubt Salem was the first one to go to GOL and ask him to revive someone.
After enduring her punishment she gets reunited with her loved one only to demand even more and decides to on a murdering rampage.
If anyone is a sociopath it's Salem.
Explains why she was locked away
after learning that karen tooke the kids
oz tried to do the same but little dit he know that salem real name was in fact karen , but because he pissed her off , she took his life instead of the kids
This was a good episode
@loafhero I know right
it was "good"
Talk no Jutsu for the win! 😆
In all seriousness great review but I can't hit the subscribe button because that would mean unsubscribing.
Okay, I am admitting to people right now that nowadays my computer sometimes loses the colors of purple, magenta and any other similar colors, turning them grey and black.
Why am I admitting this here?
Because of that fact, the God of Darkness looks more intimidating, frightening and truly a God of Darkness when he's dark grey and/or black instead of jello purple. Especially in dragon form.
When an error on my computer makes a being that's supposed to be the absolute amalgamation of darkness and destruction more intimidating in appearance than the creators did, then... *sigh* why did they make him purple instead of black again? Seriously, who knew a simple color change could define the fear factor and intimidation of a character.
You a new monitor or graphics card. Still wow get that computer hired by RT.
If you take up graphic artist than you would know.
I like how the RWBY fandom pitied Salem and said this...
'gOdS dOn'T uNdErSTaNd hUmAn fEeLiNgS'
'sAlEm iS iNnOcEnt'
'tHoSE gOdS aRe bAd!!111"
Dude.
They. Are fucking GODS.
When a human does something terrible RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES.
You REALLY think that they won't punish that person?
Salem's Crimes:
1. Demanded to bring someone back to life and became salty when she didn't get what she wanted like a spoiled BRAT.
2. She LIED. TO FUCKING GODS. WHO CAN KILL HER WITH ONE SNAP OF THEIR FINGERS.
3. She tried to kill herself multiple times (suicide is a sin and its bad for you please do not do it anyone.)
4. She manipulated humanity into FIGHTING GODS.
5. After she became evil she started killing THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS...just because she was salty about her husband leaving her.
This Character..is EVIL. she is not meant to be pitied, or to say things about her that is like 'It wasn't Salem's fault that she did this. The gods don't understand what she felt at that moment and faked their sympathy towards her.' the ONLY reason this character is meant to be liked is because she's a good villain. Not a good person.
This chapter was the most stupid shit I have ever seen in the series.
Man, is like everyone is a deadbrain idiot.
The season was going very good, but they have to ruin everything again.
The writing is borderline insulting and lazy. That is like a cheaper version of Nanatsu no Taizai. I think we should rename then as Ozpizabeth and Saliodas XD.
Been honest, I was expecting this kind of tragic love story. It was obvious and predictable, but I thought it would be more like one of then die and the other one cannot accept it, then goes with the god of darkness (a nice guy compared to what I was expecting).
Also I did expect something more like Full metal alchemist, with Ozpin refusing to let her be dead and doing a deal with what was supposed to be the devil. Salem would be brought back to life but in a wicked way or something. Then, the god of light would curse Ozpin to make him fix his mess.
Almost anything else would be better than this bulllshit of a chapter.
But the thing that almost made go Berserk was the fact that they got married and had a family together. Man, that was horrible.
Ozpin's real curse is being an idiot.
Ok, this is far larger that I was expecting, but I really needed to express my opinion about this throne chapter.
Anyway, keep the good work and I will be waiting for your next review.
Bye!
Pd: sorry if something is wrong, I am still learning English :•)
@TwisterKirby Yeah, I am fully aware that all what I mentioned in my comentarios are clichés. What I mean is that even if it is "original", it is being doing in a bad way. It doesn't explore the characters and their motivations. A lot of things just happen. ¿Why is Ozma a "hero"? ¿Why did he fight Salem's father? ¿He did it because he was a bad guy or he wanted Salem because she was powerful? ¿Was he entirely a "good guy"? ¿Why was he selected to fight Salem when surely there was another guy better than him? ¿Was he chosen by the gods before?
Salem is stupid without reason. After a lot if time wandering the world she comes with a mediocre plan: Oh, I will take, like, 30 guys to fight gods powerful enough to create a world and give us magic. Yeah, they have no chance against me.
Man, let's be honest, it was stupid.
Clichés are not entirely bad when you use then in a right manner.
We didn't need to see those guys having a family. Really, why?
She was supposed to be an entity of pure evil and destruction, what she already was considering that her foolishness killed humanity.
Also, why are they humans if they were exterminated by the god of darkness? They don't explain that. And where did the faunus come from? Why are they put into cages and treated like slaves? I don't know, it was never explained.
Ozpin and Salem's past had enough material for an entirely season well explained. The problem is that they rushed the explanation and there are so many things that doesn't make sense because of that.
I know the writers might be doing their best, but it is not enough. If they cannot pay attention to details, they should be replaced. They are not the only writers in the world. They had to use a forced character like D'jinn in a forced situation with Oscar telling them her name to summon her. The thing was forced just to finally explain the origin of this conflict.
A good point is that Ruby is finally having some character development along with Blake. Not what I expected, but it is something.
I hope to see something more about the secondary characters.
I know that not all series can be as good as the last Airbender, but man, I just want a solid story.
I won't tell that this episode has ruined the entire season, but has affected the way we see Ozpin and Salem.
Well, some things are better if they ARE REVEALED!
This is crazy though, How did Salem gain control of the Grim?!
And if Salem went to the god of Chaos first, this story would of been over!
Can't lie that god of light's voice do be sounding soothing as hell.
Well here's one way you can stop or kill Salem. That device Ozpin was working on to transfer souls and a Maiden's magic to another person? Ozpin could probably use it to siphon off Salem's magic and use it as a containment box. It may even take her immortality because why not? Makes the best sense to me as it can take a person's entire being and put it in someone else (possibly as we only saw it work somewhat until Cinder showed up). If it doesn't steal her immortality then if you want to give it a bit more sense put her body inside of a robot like Penny and destroy her.
A side bonus to make the world all peace loving and joyous is for them to try and contain Salem in that place where the Grimm dwell and make the containment indestructible to them so that they only focus on trying to free their new master.
Well thats the only solution. Render Salem powerless by removing her magic . Although there is a hole. Salem is grimmified she still has grimm powers meaning her magic is Half her potentialn
@@arnowisp6244 That's why I say it would make a great prison for the Grimm as well as they would try and break their new master and most if not all staying there to try and free her.
About Ozpins question, it looks more like Jinn aswers her question whatever way she pleases.
When Ruby asked what Ozpin was hiding from them she picked up on the context and intent behind it enough to only tell the relevant bits.
Cause clearly she didn't mean his porn stash or anything of the sort.
But when Ozpin asks a question she gives only the literal answer, almost as if she aswers question in the way the most likely to upset Ozpin, it's really weird to me.
It almost makes me feel like the gods are meant to be the bad guys, and maybe they are. Seriously i feel like the GOL only resurrected Ozma as a prank or something.
Shes a jinn thats what they do with wishes
What a wonderful thanksgiving present
Thank you for making this dank video :3
I should also point out the massive plot hole that this episode made. We learned that Ozpin can use magic. Therefore he never should've lost to Cinder in the first place, who _just_ got her full maiden powers and therefore magic. He's had more or less since the beginning of time (at least Remnants time) so there's no reason why he should've lost to Cinder.
Also I'm glad someone else caught the fact that Jin said he couldn't destroy Salem and to come up with a better question. And Jin said _you_ can't, doesn't mean someone else can't. How can Salem be destroyed/stopped is a better question. Because he asked how could he, as in, him personally.
I fell like Salem’s dad should have put magic on the door so Osma couldn’t get in it, I mean if they everyone has magic shouldn’t he have thought about if someone found the tower?
That assumes he did or disnt
Plus no hoots given for their four daughters obliterated during their fight. Is this meta for messy divorces?
I see the god of light and the god of darkness as characters, just because they’re “all-powerful” doesn’t mean I cannot. Learning that I’m an “experiment” by them would make me chuckle.
My foolproof plan to get rid of Salem go up to her with last question in lamp, ask Jin why life and death is important, profit.
Sometimes, ignorance is bliss.
I definitely agree with some points, but I don’t agree entirely. Firstly, we’re only seeing a condensed version of events so there could have been things we didn’t see, like when you asked why Ozpin didn’t talk Salem down. It’s basically the cliff notes version, which I’m personally fine with.
The generic story actually makes a lot of sense to me, given how the entire show is supposed to be a mash-up/reimagining of all the classic fairy tales. So it makes sense to me that what kicked the entire story off was a fairy tale.
I do agree that the people saying the gods are idiots are wrong tho, because a) they’re gods, so they can do whatever the fuck they want, like you said, and b) as gods, nothing can touch them, so of course giving her immortality is a good choice in their mind. We watched her attempt to destroy them by assembling an army of every kingdom and the gods shrugged them off. They are not bothered by her because they cannot be physically bothered by her.
I actually really liked the gods and their interactions. I appreciated that the god of darkness wasn’t an evil asshole like they usually are, plus it really felt like they were brothers with their petty squabbling.
I like how Ozmas really only went back to earth because he wanted to see Salem, and I like how they actually do get back together and raise a family.
You asked why Ozpin called his reincarnation a curse rather than a gift, but it’s very possible that what began as a gift slowly became a curse to him after many lifetimes of trying to stop Salem and failing.
Sure, he asked how to destroy Salem instead of stopping Salem, but that seems like a distinction without a difference to me. If he can’t destroy Salem, or otherwise incapacitate her, then she will continue to divide humanity, meaning Ozpin’s one job is basically null and void.
I personally do feel somewhat sympathetic towards Ozpin, given that his only wish was to see Salem again, and when that wish was granted, he realized she had become a monster. His continued failed efforts pushed him into deeper and deeper despair and has become the jaded, shifty man he is now.
Salem on the other hand, I don’t really care for. I get her motivations, and I do think it adds a bit to her, given how her own hubris led to her downfall. However, she is still pretty generic.
Also, something that always gets on my nerves when people talk about movies and shows is when they ask why characters don’t do a thing you would do as a passive viewer. The reason it gets on my nerves is because a character making a mistake is not inherently a mistake on the show’s part, it’s a mistake of the character.
TL;DR I actually really liked the episode and I found some of your criticisms to be too pedantic and nit picky for my liking, but it’s definitely not a perfect episode, nor are you entirely off base with your complaints.
Yeah Vexed Viewer just seems to be jaded by the show at this point. The types of criticisms I can never except from people are those that complain about humans acting as humans would, and that's the kind of criticisms people like Vexed Viewer just love to use. "Oh they didn't do the smart thing. This is so stupid. They should have done the smart thing because obviously all humans are logical and never ruled by their emotions. That's absurd." I don't know why he keeps watching it... okay I do. Those sweet youtube clicks. Complaining about the presence of fairy-tale cliches in this show specifically is just... baffling to me. It's always been rooted in fairy-tales since the very beginning.
Fun fact, this backstory was foreshadowed way back in volume 3. When Ozpin asked Pyrrha about what fairy-tales she knows of the first one she listed off was called "The Girl in the Tower". The story of Salem apparently exists as a fairy-tale.
@@jackmanleblanc2518
I honestly envy those who can just turn their brains off and enjoy generic and predictable plots. I really do. I know that the whole fairytale thing is referenced in RWBY, but why not have a plotline that the viewer can't guess right off the bat, or is that asking too much? Also, why is it such a stretch to assume that characters to have intelligence? Like did the kingdom's rulers think they had a chance against the beings that created them. And how would they achieve immortality if they DID manage to kill the gods?
I myself was asking why the Light God brought back Ozma even though the whole reason why Salem was made immortal was to make sure that she would never see him again.
I don't know why YOU'RE watching Vexxed when he doesn't share your opinion.
Just because the story was foreshadowed doesn't make it any less disappointing and cliche.
@@DarkCircles698 The GoL brought Ozpin back to move the plot forward because the REAL CREATORS ( Miles and Kerry) realized late in animation that Ozpin was in the afterlife chilling.
@@jackmanleblanc2518 The characters are consistently doing the dumb thing. consistently!
Vexed Viewer I just want to say that team Rwby does somethings that arnt the best but they are still kids. I am not saying the discredits any “stupid” thing they have done but the are still at an age where the are still developing mentally. The may be growing in experience but they are still young.
Nice use of Green Day
I actually liked that it was basically filled with Fairy tale troupes.
That’s what majorly inspired RWBY in the first place so I thoroughly enjoyed the typicality
Yeah I didn't like that.
There had been theories that dust are the remains of the magical powers that humans once had. So basically fossil fuel, except that instead of dinosaurs, we have magical humans.
I’m going to say what I said in other videos
the backstory was sort of a mess, not terrible, but still a mess. Sure it has very nice elements but it’s held back by some inconsistencies
Gods are inconsistent, they talk about balance between life and death yet grants Salem immortality, thus disregarding death, contradicting their claim
How does Salem expect someone who is based on destruction create life, as in bring someone back? But to be fair she was desperate and was denied by the God of light so I’ll give it a pass
Also her motivation on her “revenge” (if you want to call it that) is very childish considering she’s “smart”, someone died and she wanted hack powers to bring him back, Gods said nah, she decides to doom humanity (technically), what did she expect fighting all powerful beings? her motivation just seems ludicrous
and how did Humans so easily fall for her deceit? sure she said that she stole it, but why would anyone believe her? in a world that has semblances and magic and power, she may as well have super healing, simply saying "humanity's heart are easily swayed" is very weak.
She treats herself like she’s Job from the Bible or something
The thing is we’re not given enough insight or time to care or understand the relationship between her and Ozpin for her to snap like a 8 year old child like that, we don’t get into her mental state at all.
Alright the positives:
the references are nice, the Gods interacting directly with Humans is possibly referencing mythology as well as the Old Testament from the Bible since they decide to no longer interfere with humanity like in the new testament. I like those touches to be honest, they're great.
The biggest issue with this is that it’s very rushed and hard to believe, they want humanity to live in peace without them or they will be destroyed while there was little to no indication of peace when they were there, in fact there were many signs of conflict.
So yeah overall it’s sort of a mess, but it has nice touches that stops it from being terrible, kinda mediocre overall.
this had a huge potential of being great and amazing, but it was very rushed, and they had made things forced into the backstory (like the immortality) and created inconsistencies in the process
Thank you for reading and have a nice day :)
Salem's immortality was originally supposed to be temporary, until she appreciates life and death. Maybe the brothers thought she'll start a family or something
She got an army to spite the gods and goad them into killing her since she couldn't do it herself
Semblances are apparently a semblances of the magic, so it is possible the magic system doesn't have individual-locked abilities. Plus Salem challenged them to kill her, and when Ozpin fought her she was literally turned to ash, so it is legit immortality and not just super healing.
She could've tricked them by saying she snuck into the light domain and found an object that gave her immortality, and that they can all use this object as they please if they get the god of creation out of the way
@@shadowwhowalk
that is a much better response than one stating "Gods are assholes who cares" so thanks friend! however it is still immortality, literally breaking the rules of nature and thus breaking balance, stating "oh she'll probably understand one day after we literally ruined her..." seems like humanly stupid thing to do
there was no indication that Salem doomed humanity and made them fight Gods so they can kill her, it doesn't make sense at all, especially if you're making them fight a God of destruction as well
semblances, by your headcanon, are pretty much parts of magic, which makes little sense because from what we see semblances work pretty much like magic if not even better...
Ozpin turning her to ash is after the fight, and it is still regeneration when she heals from being turned to ash, unless every last particle of her got destroyed and she came back regardless but that would be reaching.
ok let's go with she found an object that makes her immortal, wouldn't the Gods (all powerful beings btw) just take it away? why would they believe that she managed to sneak from all powerful and all knowing (it's how they created the relic of knowledge after all) Gods. unless they are so stupid enough to just believe anything she says with little evidence (little not none, again immortality, considering the world they live in, is simply not enough). and any person with some semblance of a brain would know fighting infinitely powerful beings (infinite being the word here) is not the best idea.
thank you for the reply friend and have a nice day :)
I find funny noone gets that the balance is between the brothers as they both have the ability to resurect or desroy.
SuperDeadzombeh no my friend that’s the opposite of balance...
salem being immortal just creates issues of doesn't salem hut down the maidens herself
Waaaaaait....
If Ruby's silver eyes can kill Grimm, which come from that icor, that black goo stuff, and Salem is evil because of the black goo stuff curupting her, does that mean they're gonna make ruby spam Salem with the silver eyes to purge the Grimm stuff out of her and then talk no jutsu her at the end? Because I feel like that's what they're gonna do.
This what ozpin could've said when he merged his soul with Oscar," God gave a gift, but as many life's I was in, to me it felt like a curse." That all the writers could of done! Nope do the must laziest way the ever done
The God of darkness seems more reasonable than World of Remnant portrayed him.
"I can't say [the gods] are doing anything wrong; they're fucking gods. They're free to do whatever the fuck they want." THANK YOU I've been saying this for ages
I honestly enjoyed this episode tbh. But yeah, i kinda agree with you.
Just discovered your channel and imo one of the best related to anything to do with RWBY. Keep up the good work m8😁😊
What did we learn humans are dumb and thanos is right
yo, yo THAAAAANK YOOOOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! About damn time someone pointed this out for me!
Wait doesn’t RWBY have a running thing with fairytales
What's RWBY? All I see is a dumpster fire
I personally liked the simple fairy tale structure, nothing too complex, just short and sweet and to the point