Another feat for their speed. In DMC 5, the demon Fury is stated to be the fastest demon in the entirety of hell, which capable of crossing hell and reaching it's border in matter of seconds, and if you know, hell is the same size of the overworld, which is the entire universe. And Dante plays with the Furies as if they were joke demons (not the same to the players)
@@LegoWhisbecauseyes pluto is faster but its been stated that the sparda family line are all faster then pluto making them infinite speed in base maybe even immesurable
You missed some feats from novels and pinnacle of combat that would skyrocket DMC5's scaling even further. Even if you were to ignore pinnacle of combat's 9D statement dante and vergil would still technically be at complex multiversal levels because the demon world through the lore in DMC3 and DMC1 is dimensionally higher than the human world, it has its own laws of physics, not only a different flow of time but multiple flows of time as well as other timelines and higher dimensions and pocket dimensions such as nervana. The demon world itself is a multiverse.
Yeah as well as getting them to immeasurable speed. Unfortunately I could not for the life of me find some scans, so I had to downplay them a bit as I wanted to give a lowest and highest interpretation
@@marcus7984he beats an omnipresent and nigh omnipotent being named Void Mundus and Chen. Chen is a Human who are the beastheads which allows you to rewrite all of reality see through all timelines and it grants whatever the wielder needs if they’re backed into a corner. Dante beats him and Chen also used the Sparda family’s sword style he also had infinite IQ
This might just be my favorite video from you thus far, you really put in your research and I must give props for that. Plus who doesn't love Dante and Virgil?
Thank you so much man 🙏 It helps that I’ve already scaled Dante and Vergil before it was just a matter of finding all the scans again. And exactly unless a new game just released new DMC content is somewhat rare so I’m more than happy to remedy that 🙏
There’s a lot of other feats missing but it’s a really good video nonetheless we missed some stuff like Dante and the gang being able to kill metaphysical beings or Dante and Vergil I’m DMC3 transcending the concept of time and more
Yeah there’s a lot more we can pull from even some Peak of Combat stuff like Pluto bypassing the time stream and Dante still being able to keep up with him
@@Sci-FiKai Most Definitely I just didn't wish to use anything from POC because so many people love to say it's non canon tho we have statements saying otherwise 😭
There's two more feats I'd like to mention. One is beating Chen the Cannibal, someone who consumed a devil arm known as the beastheads. The arm in question gives the user power and speed rivaling Mundus, all the knowledge of the world, ALL OF IT including, Sparda's and Dante's skills in combat, as well as giving past present and future vision, and Dante managed to best him. The other is obviously Void Mundus: not exactly creative or special, just a more powerful Mundus from another dimension, which Dante solo'd with little difficulty.
two additional abilities these two posses: Dante, due to fusing with the rebellion, has the conceptual power to bring man and devil together. on a personal level, this is as it sounds. fusing demonic power to a human or bringing out the latent demonic power of a hybrid. on the conceptual level, it means he can fuse the demon world and the human world. similar to how Limbo crashed into the real world in the *ahem* "reboot" this could also mean, through fusing specific points in a small localised area he can possible also teleport like Vergil can as seen when he took back the Yamato from Nero. this also means that, technically, he has the ability to absorb infinite demonic power if he learns to utilize this ability to it's full extent, as seen with the Sparda. bringing his human side and fusing with the demonic world itself is a possibility. granted what this would do to him physically and mentally, who knows. but it's a POSSIBLE when looking at Rebellion's conceptual power which now resides within Dante himself (and also the Devil sword Dante) Vergil: obviously with the Yamato, has the opposite power. seperating demonic and the human. we've seen it's conceptual power, with Vergil and V and the hell gates. but it also means he can probably defeat anything which's power relies on the demonic, severing it's bonds with itself as long as he's able to cut it with Yamato. there is a possibility he could just... whittle away at the demon world itself with infinite slashes until it is no more. and this is also probably how Nero's arm came clean off, using the Yamato's power to sever the demon arm from the human flesh.
I've enjoyed the video. Really well done. In the last months of 2023 a lot of PoC has been brought in question , not only with the lack of somethings in the current Beta (like a Book with enemy descriptions that would give Dante and Vergil more hax), as well the validity of the scans has been brought into question (like the ones of 9D souls and Pluto Speed) very recently. So I guess it makes sense for the skepticism. Exclduing PoC, I would like to mention a few things (don't need to agree with them): -A. If you go with the most basic interpretation, it seems that Dante and Vergil would likely be Multiversal. However, there are, possibly, in theroy, two ways (and this is mostly my opinion and after looking around some other sites and arguments) for them to be of a higher scale, close to Low Complex Multiversal, and maybe above: 1. If we take the interaction between of the Human World and Demon World not as two parallel universes, but both stacked on each other. If the Human World is your classic 3D/4D structure (3 of space and 1 of time) and the Demon World is a higher Dimension (since it is hintend that the souls of the dead go to there and mentioned as endless in some descriptions of item and enemies) with, inside of it, several dimensional structures (like the nirvanas and other D. World locations from DMC3) some Universe sized (like the Mirror World from DMC1, the reflection of the Human World and is one entrance to the D. World Dante used). That could make the base of the verse be Low Complex. 2. If the Ruler of Hell who Mundus defeated was the same demon that, according to the DMC3 Manga, splited the two words (which we usually refer as Pluto), that means that both brothers are likley way more powerful than the base of formation of the verse: Mundus defeated Pluto, rivaled Argosax, and was beaten by Sparda. In DMC1 is commented how Dante was as strong or more so than Sparda (according to Griffon, in his death scene); Here he should be close or slightly higher than his father. Rivals Mundus power at worse. During DMC2 years, though, Dante casually beat Argosax, whose Despair Embodied form (the fire one) made him more powerful than his original form that was equal to Mundus; and considered it easy and forgettable (Before the Nightmare). He also beat Void Mundus (way more powerful than regular Mundus) in the 2nd novel and also was considered easy (even this Mundis admitted that Dante didn't rival his power, actually was above him). It all seems to indicate that Dante power grew passively and in high marging, considering the gap between DMC1 and DMC2. And then possibly so on through 4 and 5. That before gaining SDT form. From this, it is possible to believe he is way, way higher than the just Multiversal scale by the end of 5. -B. They should have Immesurable speed. I've seen some discussion pages with links to a image with an image of Argosax Entry Enemy data, in, apparently, the DMC2 Complete Guide, page 98, with the following: 醜悪なアルゴサクス・ザ・ケイオスを触媒とすることで具現化した、 真なる姿。 両性具有の完璧な肉体と光り輝く姿を持つ。 その神々しいばかりの姿とは裏腹に､ 破壊と混沌、絶望のみを欲する究極の魔。 魔界を支配するまでになった実力は伊達ではなく、 時間や距離をも超越した瞬間移動、身に纏う光を収束しての攻撃によりダンテを翻弄する。 "It's true form, embodied by the catalyst of the abomination Argosax the Chaos. It is a hermaphrodite with a perfect body and shining figure. Despite the godlike appearance, destruction, chaos and despair is the desire of the ultimate demon. His ability to dominate the demon world is not for nothing, instantaneous movement that transcends time and distance, he plays with Dante by converging the light that surrounds him." -C. If we go through all the lore, including weapons, itens and enemies descriptions, both brother, by now, should have defense/resitance, to some degree, against most forms of hax. Including, Space, Reality (these from the Demon lords, like Mundus) Time, Mind (Argosax created paradoxes and linked the present and past; also could cause madness on humans), Soul (of course, as mentioned) and others. Sorry for the long comment.
I knew it was a good idea to include both interpretations just in case. I actually made this video before (to my knowledge at least( POC was being debunked, Even still though yeah I did miss some stuff. With all of the abilities and Hax that both brothers have as well as some statements about the demon world I’m sure it wouldn’t be to hard to get them to complex multi.
@@Sci-FiKai This is the way to go nowdays, it was indeed very good to do the video like this. PoC probably will have a final version with hopefully more descriptions to add (for the people that accept as canon). I've look around a few pages, but the one, so far, from Comic Vine called "devil may cry's true scaling unleashed" cover multiple interpretations of scaling related to the Demon World creation better. It could be worthy to take a look, ignoring the 9D stuff and most PoC stuff. If interested. Once again, very well done video.
I’m glad you bring up the Argosax feat since people will obviously continue to attempt at debunking PoC until it’s American release. It’s even more impressive knowing Dante blitzes Argosax, further cementing he has inaccessible/ immeasurable speed. Another good demonstration is during the DMC2 novel, when Dante combats Void Mundus. Void Mundus is the alternate timeline itself, and the void the two fight in. He’s omnipresent. This would make Dante’s reaction time at least nigh-omnipresent himself.
@@Doctor_MobiusGood on mentiontiong Void Mundus. The novel is often overlooked And to add to that you mentioned, in one possible translation for the DMC Novel 2 in japanese, page 199: 魔王は...ムンドゥスは理解できなかった。 彼こそは絶対の存在であり、永遠に、時の流れからさえ独立した支配者として、森羅万象のすべてを統べることができるはずであったのだ。 しかし今ここに、彼と比肩し得る力を備えた相手がいる。 いや、もしかするとこの相手は、彼をも凌ぐ力を備えているのかもしれない。 "The Demon King, Mundus, could not understand this. He was supposed to be an absolute being, an eternal ruler free from even the flow of time, and to rule over all things in creation. Yet now, here was an opponent who had power that could rival his-- Nay, perhaps this opponent is even more powerful than he is." This is mentioned in the official english release (pg. 145). it confirms Dante as more powerful, I don't even think he uses his full power/potential in either Void Mundus or Argosax, both he claims, in the 2nd novel and Before the Nightmare, as "easy", and he just kept becoming more powerful in DMC4 and 5, even before unlocking Sin Devil Trigger.
I know why Dante is keep getting stronger, it actually has context *UNLIKE A CERTAIN BLUE HEDGEHOG* Human blood is stated to be power source for demons Dante is half demon and half human And besides, he was hurt a lot of times during series, revealing his human blood to everywhere Do I have to explain? This answers the question of why Vergil was weaker than Dante and now equal at end of DMC5 He did not get injured as much as Dante, so he had to close the gap with Nero's arm and Qlippoth Fruit
Nero should be easy to scale He’s obviously weaker than Dante during dmc 4 but slowly getting the hang of it to dmc 5 where he’s still slightly under Dantes level. Until the end of the 5th game where (Albeit Dante and Vergil were already injured and weakened) was able to keep up and damage both of them. So safe to say Nero is still weaker than Dante and Vergil but definitely have gotten really close to their level.
If you'd ask me, Nero has WAY more potential than Dante and Vergil combined Why? Dante and Vergil gained their Devil Trigger forms by getting hurt too much while Nero got his lost arm back and achieved Devil Trigger by his pure determination in not letting Dante and Vergil killing each other He's got a lot more potential, and may even get stronger than Dante and Vergil in future
He's not. Vergil was just totally gassed from fighting Dante. You can see it in the combat of each fight. When fighting him as Dante, he's hyper aggressive and fast. When fighting him as Nero, he's a lot calmer, a little slower, and even seems to have less HP. If he was fresh and serious, Vergil would have turned Nero into a stain on the ground lol.
8:12 And coincidentally, being faster than the speed of light means that their universe has different laws of physics. So, we don't know how their physics actually works, it may look similar to ours in some way, but just the fact that something in that universe CAN be faster than light means, theirs are fundamentally different. We can't even know if the mass of one litre of water of their universe and of our universe have the same mass. And because we don't know it, we don't have the knowledge to actually compare them to other franchises (or our universe) either.
Who/what says the universe's laws allow anything/anyone in the verse to be faster than light? What makes you think dante needs permission from the pesky laws of physics to be FTL? Did the source itself not once say demons ignore the laws of reality or something along those lines? Lol
After all that and there are still ppl that think kratos is stronger than dante which is beyound funny, kratos has no chance in hell beating dante at base forum not to mention DT or SIN DT
So basically what your saying is they're at least 9d and at max 18d-45d or more which reverts back to 11 or 12 (infinitesimal) (incalc) meaning they're stronger than anyone in comics and manga combined.
Dimension scaling needs to go in the garbage. Sure, some characters are just way stronger than others and esoteric abilities can get weird; but this higher dimension stuff is honestly absurd. Claiming Kratos wouldn't even be able to perceive or interact with Dante because Dante is 4 dimensions over his head is an utterly deranged statement.
Especially since it very specifically says the SOUL is 9D, not just every random fucker with one. By this guy's absurd understanding of what was probably just a cool statement about how esoteric the soul is, Kratos couldn't even "perceive" a regular fucking human from Devil May Cry, because they also have souls. It's idiotic. Especially since Kratos also perceives and manipulates souls so he would be at the same tier anyway -_-
@@Sci-FiKai still doesn't make any sense, since the fact that they said every soul is 9th dimensional might have completely different meaning than what you described. you lost me after that, really a shame that you led of that.
@@InfiniteEscuro i'm pretty certain it was as an off hand statement, to show how mystifying the soul is. there is absolutely no chance that the writers meant this.
To me I aways thought the difference between Dante and Vergil was Speed Vs Power with Vergil clearly being the faster one and Dante being the my physically stronger one.
Fodder demons are 9th dimensional but are maybe only building level in strength…. Explain yourself. This 9th dimensional tweet is blown way out of proportion
I'd like to see someone scale Dante and Vergil against the Nasuverse ( Fate Grand Order ) mostly against the Aricude ( Tupe Earth ) and other true ancestors. It's pretty clear now that Death battle did do their research properly b4 that fight.
Something I think all you power scalers need to understand we are 4th dimensional beings by default. That is height width depth and time. If you are willing to accept spirit or the dimension of the mind( I see those two as the same) humans are 5th friendship😢 beings irl
But if we want to get really anime. . . Humans exist in 1) height 2) width 3) depth 4) time 5) mind/imagination 6) spirit/ki 7) emotional I would imagine that 8 and 9 might be dimension of concepts/ideas and in-between space (where trickster and dark stalker travel through
could you do sephiroph vs dante and how that would go in a deathbattle, since vergil lost which i feel was rigged its interesting to know how dante would fight him im huge on the whole styles makes fight thing just like in boxing
I really dislike power scaling, it's so unnecessary. Why can't we just have everyone be friends and bad guys never winning because they are wrong? Anyway good video.
Your comment needs more likes fr. Because I honestly hate debate after goddamn debate. Like honestly, people just need to enjoy the motherfucking shows, games, movies, etc, and just shut the fuck up. 😒
Power scaling exists for those who want to better understand a character/weapon/etc and the capability or destructive power in a much more comprehensive approach
Because having a basis (if not fully defined or developed) allows to not go too far when making a character and make a mistake that allows for ‘Mary Sue’s to exist or on a level that isn’t fun or interesting, especially in a good guy vs bad guy story setting. It also allows for characters to grow in power and skills for different power level battles.
@@RPGgamerWolf It's all good and useful, but irrelevant to power scaling. The things you mentioned are just general good writing. Power scaling is an inherently fan's concept which tries to attribute numbers or tiers to "feats" often regardless of their meaning. Specifically in DMC such concepts simply don't apply, since fights are won with motivation, respect and soul. Scale of power plays no deciding role in conflicts. No need to give stupid power levels to good characters.
SSS video! New sub right here! I’m glad you did a lot of research. Just for your knowledge, there’s a channel called “Zimatorn” and he has a lot of In-depth DMC powerscalling.
i only clicked on this video to say that before i zoomed in, i thought your user icon was a dog wearing a femto mask and i though that was preddy cool. but godzilla is also cool.
When you were explaining dimensions, im pretty sure thats not how dimensions work right? If dante was a 9th dimensional being, wouldnt he be able to just exist in every timeline and change his reality by being able to go fowards and backwards in time? Correct me if im wrong please.
That would be true if the verse itself had lower dimensionality than him. But the whole verse would be 9D so it’s basically the same as a 3D being in a 3D verse (tho unfortunately the Peak of Combat stuff has recently been proven non canon)
Smth to note. They will keep getting stronger, since I’m not sure if there is a confirmed time where Dante and Vergin hit old ages, but since human blood powers demon blood, and both mingle in their veins, they will as I said previously, keep getting stronger as times goes on.
If the soul is 9th dimensional, couldn't it just be that when in the body we have a few slices of it (like a 3d person going in 2d sace would appear as slices of them), but when out of the body it's the full thing?
The problem is we don’t have a 100% answer of the devs or Capcom stating it is or isn’t canon. We have a statement of them saying it takes place between DMC3 and 1, which there are plenty of series that have what if material that takes place during a certain period of the story that’s non-canon. Personally I think it’s canon, but I mainly did that so my comment section wasn’t filled with people saying “it’s NoT CaNon”
@@Sci-FiKai it is "canon" in the same way the ultimate 1610 universe is "canon" , its an alternate timeline in the dmc continuity . So you can use feats and statements but technically its not the same dante vergil we are used to.
That would be interesting, Death Battle did that a long time ago but that was before Bayo 2 and 3 and dmc5 i think. I'll have to look into Bayo scaling I imagine she can get pretty high@@BlueCosmo369
to the kratos statement: you forgot that he has been to a place beyond dimensions in his canon crossover playstation allstars, otherwise everything great
Since when is all stars canon? And before you say it, the homage in gowr is not a confirmation of the game being canon. I could also argue that bayonatta is canon to dmc simply because it featured phantom and enzo in it.
@@MotivatedSonOfSpardaIirc, during a boat ride, Kratos does describe and hint to it. I've not actually played Ragnarok yet, so all I can go off is a clip.
Yeah but then in an interview, Corey was asked who would win in a fight between Kratos & Scarlet Witch and Corey basically says Kratos would not be able to beat solar system buster.
W video W everything i just got a few questions does rebelion have a known durability limit and could anyone EOS crack or destroy it Do dopplegangers have same durability and speed as the og dante/vergil
As far as we know it’s durability limit is Urizen. So you’d have to be complex multi to be able to destroy it Doppelgängers are weird, because for Dante they’re shadows of himself and for Vergil it’s different. They have the same speed and strength but you can’t actually damage them. They’re like ethereal. In the case of Dante’s it’s stated that it’s literally a shadow that can hurt you, and with Vergil it’s like ethereal like mirage edge
I don't get it, if japanese studio decides to create a 3D Goku game with realistic faces and bodies to ours, but with powers of the anime, this will mean that Goku will be a 9D being instead of 2D ?
I think calling anything “9D” is just a fancy way of saying they’re strong. There is no explanation of what a 9D or higher being would look like or how the would interact with our universe. The highest dimension we have “knowledge” on is the fourth, which is time, and most of it is still speculation. So saying, “this character is stronger than this character because character A is of a higher dimension” doesn’t really do anything. How does Dante fighting a being who can create a universe outscales Kratos who has beaten beings who are stronger than the ones who created the universe? In God of War before time and space were concepts, the Primordials were at war. Uranus accidentally created the universe when he punched another Primordial which would technically put all Primordials at Zero Dimensional since they existed before time, space, and the Universe itself. These “Zero Dimensional” beings are later bodied by the Titans who are then felled with one single swing of the Blade of Olympus which contained all of Zeus’ power putting Zeus well above all the Titans, all the Primordials, and even all the gods themselves. Kratos later comes through and, aside from Zeus, no diffs the gods. Hades even tried to steal the man’s soul which Kratos outright overpowers before later stealing Hades’ soul. In terms of speed, Kratos is able to react to Helios’ light which can light up all of the Underworld which is confirmed to be an infinite Universe. So this isn’t a Kratos vs Dante question but rather a question as to why Dante’s feat of barely beating a being who created a universe tops Kratos’ feat of stomping beings who outscales the Titans who outscales the Primordials who created the universe, time, and space itself. How can Dante be of a higher dimension when Kratos arguably has better feats than he does? How do you, as a power scaler, determine what dimension a character is if there is no scientific explanation of what these higher dimensions are or what they’d look like? By the way, this isn’t a comment to trash you or anyone. I just found your channel the other day and have been enjoying myself. Isaac vs Leon, Predator vs. Delta Sqaud, and Delta Squad being put in the Dead Space game are some of my favorites so far.
Beowulf uses the power of light but never actually moves at the speed of light. He goes on all fours during the bossfight to gain some extra speed for crying out loud. Also, he does have one attack where a bunch of light beams are shot at you. These are hard as fuck to dodge and you're likely to be hit by at least a few of them. However in DMC5 it is stated Dante can move at hyperspeed in SDT, which by definition means faster than light. So you could scale 5Dante's speed to light in Sin Devil Trigger.
and vergil he is much faster than dante because he can stop time and cut dimensions with his yamato and another beowulf and mirrage blade and mirrage edge and also judgment cut end I thought he would be much faster than dante vergil because that eke yem motivation and also him being a storm in fact author dusse vergil and dante are multiversal
i love that at least people are recognizing them as strong. still, i hate when people start saying "insert dimensions level" or whatever with power scaling these days. even when i agree with the results, it feels so limited and stupid, and rejects so much context, both in universe and IRL. like not everything fits into it and its also just like... self defeating... using its own logic EVERY fictional character is 2d at best. like foder enemies wouldnt be shit to kratos but people think "well 9d blah blah blah" despite the fact that we directly see they cant at ALL preform near on his level. and i say that being a significantly higher dmc fan than ANYTHING else ive ever seen, read, or played. and no, vergil didnt move faster than the speed of light to kill beauwolf. theyve SHOWN vergil using super speed both in gameplay and cut scenes. if they wanted it to be super speed, theyd make it look different than him simply jumping, which they do in other instances. yes dante and vergil can easily break the speed of light ranges, but thy arent constantly that fast, thats why dante can be surprised and capped in the face by a normal human. they have to actively choose to get to that level. theres also just some factually twisted statements in this video. yes, the hell vanguard are embodiments of their sin, BUT their forms that you fight are NOT, and vergil states this and the downside to this in the prequel manga, and dont try saying its not canon as its been stated, any statement that is not strictly contradicted or denied, its still canon, even if the book isnt as a whole. Vergil states that being concepts, they cant do anything to the physical world, as such they need to limit themselves, making the pathetic bodies that make up the vanguard, and he even goes on to state that with every vessel killed, it could potentially limit the power said sin has to begin with. and summons sword being examples of SOUL manipulation? no its fucking not, yes its using his power but its not his SOUL. thats a much different level right there. and he cant manipulate light using beowulf, manipulating light means any light, all light, not just throwing a ball or light following your hands and feet. the weapons emit light energies, they dont MANIPULATE them. shooting something out isnt manipulation at all, i cant manipulate light or electricity just because i can set a flashlight to high or low power. and hey, using that dimensional logic, im beyond anything, as im LITERALLY 3d and NO fictional character is actually beyond 2d. unless i guess you count a cardboard cutout or some shit. even vr, it LOOKS 3d but isnt actually, at all. until its actually real, it will ALWAYS, by LITERAL DEFINITION be 2d.
@@Fighter_Z_9000 me too, but i dont think it has anything to do with that weird demission thing. cause that would mean kratos couldnt even beat a Beelzebub bug from DMC1 which obviously kratos could stop one no problem
0:01 Its Legendary dark knight not just legendary devil hunter like it mentioned in Dmc5,, Its really disgusting how capcom and itsuno downgraded Dante's position
I think both titles fit pretty well but I admit I do kinda like Legendary Devil Hunter more since I feel it fits Dante better and is a unique title for him. I feel like Legendary Dark Knight would fit Vergil a bit more since he’s always looked up to his father and the way he acts and dresses.
“Devil Hunter” has always been the more accurate title for Dante. I know he’s accomplished much higher feats than his father who was the Legendary Dark Knight, but still it’s always been Dante’s thing to exterminate each and every demon who infiltrates the human world
I agree that Dante is stronger than Kratos however saying fodder Daemons are stronger is stupid, lady who is a normal human kills them with ease and humans are clearly shown as humans like us, which is the baseline for power across all universes.
Don’t forget forget in regards to Lady she is a descendant of a Priestess who helped Sparda seal off the Demon realm from the Human one, we don’t have any lore or data to how this power functioned, but considering she not only survived a pretty serious stabbing to the thigh from Arkham in dmc3 and also she survived a lot of punishment from Urizen in doc 5 when other humans died instantly when attacked by Qulipoth roots Andy lesser demons, she is clearly stronger than she looks for a supposed baseline human.
You do know normal humans in fiction are not built the same as humans in real life. You got normal humans in Marvel & DC being able to react to faster than light attacks, let alone frickin normal cops being able to arrest Thanos.
Wait going by dimensions and power scaling, wouldn't characters be low complex off rip as to be 9D you have to be above universal and even multiversal. At a normal universe is 3D while a multiverse is 5-6D.
I think the wildest part of this video in particular has to be the inaccessible speed part. You came to this conclusion by mentioning how Dante gained the ability to stop time. Bit hes still moving, so that puts him in accessible speed. Brother in christ. Thats not how it works. That's just Dante stopping time. There are so many problems with this that I don’t think you realize. Not only would this statement contradict a lot of what happens in the game, but it simply doesn’t even make sense as a concept. By this logic, anybody who can stop time has access to inaccessible speed. Homura now has inaccessible speed because of this. Byleth has inaccessible speed because of this. Jotaro has inaccessible speed because of this. By this logic, Dante wouldn't have any business of beating that demon either. Plus, does this basically mean that anybody who deals with time manipulation automatically places a character at inaccessible speed? Come on. We got to put some realism into account when it comes to this game instead of pulling out weird statements.
My brother in Christ. You brought up realism when talking about inaccessible speed, a concept that is literally fictional and impossible in the real world. Also yes if you can move in stopped time you have access to inaccessible speed. “But he’s still moving” Brother. It’s a video game. Can you actually see something moving at inaccessible speed? No. Goku is FTL, can you see FTL speeds? No. The game has to actually be able to function. Every piece of fiction with superhuman feats has to be able to actually show what it’s trying to convey.
@EightUltra When I say realism, I'm specifically referring within the context of DMC. For example, why exactly would Dante suddenly have inaccessible speed? Does he have a super speed ability that makes him go that fast? Any passive that keeps him unaffected by his own timestop? The idea that having access to timestop = inaccessible speed is just goofy. Only proving that the powerscaling community has gone downhill. Timestop is an ability. This would make Shania getting punched make no sense at all. Because according to you, she has "inaccessible" now. No need for any vehicle either. Sense you're so fast that none of those things aren't even needed. Despite Jotaro being physically slow byself himself, and have multiple limitations, he's inaccessible in speed. So he should've easily have been able to come up to Kira and absolutely wash him without any issues. You realize how goofy this sounds? The only way you can come to this conclusion is through some insane levels of wank. Just because you aren't impacted by your OWN ABILITY doesn't mean that you have inaccessible speed.
Dante has 2 inaccessible speed feats, and 1 omnipresent feat. 1. He blitzes Argosax, who’s stated to have “instantaneous movement that transcends time and distance.” 2. He defeats Pluto, whose speed “bypasses the dimensional axis of time.” 3. He defeats Void Mundus, who’s omnipresent. To top it off, he has Quicksilver, Bangle of Time, Chrono Heart, and the Key of Cronus.
Yeah no dude that is were I stop listing. Just because beowolf uses light attacks doesn't means he is anywhere near the speed of light. So nah sorry, this so called "you have to be at the speed of light to beat somebody" is getting old. Just because you were able to "beat" them, does not in anyway mean that you are stronger than them
Lol, these vids are why comic books and some game lore sucks. well he's faster than light but in ultra mode he's 10x speed of light but then with ultra max he's beyond god. Like... How stupid is this
Gotta correct this: Urizen breaking the Rebellion isn't a feat greater than what Mundus is capable of. Mundus broke the Yamato, a comparable, if not superior, sword. Moreover, we cannot attribute this power to Urizen himself, as his power was being boosted by the Qlipoth, so it's really the tree's power. And given how we never faced Mundus at his full power, it's actually entirely possible he's stronger than post 5 Dante and Vergil.
@@MotivatedSonOfSparda It's questionable if that novel is even canon, but even if it was, we can't really compare that Mundus to dmc1 Mundus, as dmc1 Mundus was using a large portion of his power to open the portal to human world, while dmc2 novel Mundus wasn't, and was speculated to be weaker than the Mundus in dmc1.
Void Mundus is literally embodiment of underworld itself And Dante at base one shotted beings that are stated to be equal to Mundus Argosax for example, he had one hell of a rivalry with Mundus *Destroyed* Aligail, someone that's power is on par with Mundus *Rip*
@@LegoWhisbecauseyes Point by point: Irrelevant, I've already addressed this. Argosax was neither one shotted, as there was an entire two stage boss fight, and his "rivalry" is questionable at best. My theory, so not canon but trying to make sense of it, is that Argosax was an incredibly powerful demon, with a strong following, that, while Mundus wasn't unable to completely wipe out, would have cost him, Mundus, more than he would have wanted to expend doing so. Because if you look at the two boss fights, it's no competition who's more powerful, and only one of them, Mundus, was weakened during their fight with Dante. As for "Abigail", he/it wasn't a threat to base Dante AT ALL, and yet Dante needed the Sparda, at it's full power, and even Trish boosting Dante, just to seal Mundus away. Let me repeat that: Mundus isn't dead, even having the Sparda and Trish boosting him, and Mundus being weakened, Dante couldn't successfully kill Mundus. Whereas "Abigail" was killed without much trouble, by Dante, unboosted. The legends behind Argosax and Abigail are blatantly overblown, there's no other way to, honestly, describe it.
First off Quicksilver doesnt stop time or even slow it down its specifically stated in the dmc3 guide book it makes dante move so fast time seems to slow down 2nd Even if it stopped time we shouldnt assume dante's own ability would affect him Basically meaning hes just immune to his own quicksilver but that doesnt give him inaccisble speed
Very cool video! Always happy to see the DMC verse getting love
Thanks bro 🙏 Cool to have a fellow DMC TH-camr notice my tiny channel lol. Appreciate you 🤝
@@Sci-FiKai keep it up dude, and hope to see more!
Hi digital love your vds
Yoo the dmc goat. Love ur vids digital
@@Sci-FiKaiDmc Is G.O.A.T.E.D🐐💯🔥🔥
The crazy thing about dante speed is that in POC he was able to defeat Pluto who are so fast that he can travel and bypass the axis of time stream
I wanted to show that to but couldn’t find the scan for the life of me
@@Sci-FiKai What's a scan?
He didn't defeat Pluto he stalemates him
Pinnacle of combat or peak of combat?
@@gonhunter3994 no... no,he definitely beat him,I've actually played the game and yes,he does in fact beat him
Another feat for their speed. In DMC 5, the demon Fury is stated to be the fastest demon in the entirety of hell, which capable of crossing hell and reaching it's border in matter of seconds, and if you know, hell is the same size of the overworld, which is the entire universe.
And Dante plays with the Furies as if they were joke demons (not the same to the players)
Fastest in hell, does that make Fury > Pluto?
In terms of speed - maybe. In terms of strength Fury sucks tbh
@@LegoWhisbecauseyes pluto is faster but its been stated that the sparda family line are all faster then pluto making them infinite speed in base maybe even immesurable
Source?
You missed some feats from novels and pinnacle of combat that would skyrocket DMC5's scaling even further. Even if you were to ignore pinnacle of combat's 9D statement dante and vergil would still technically be at complex multiversal levels because the demon world through the lore in DMC3 and DMC1 is dimensionally higher than the human world, it has its own laws of physics, not only a different flow of time but multiple flows of time as well as other timelines and higher dimensions and pocket dimensions such as nervana. The demon world itself is a multiverse.
Yeah as well as getting them to immeasurable speed.
Unfortunately I could not for the life of me find some scans, so I had to downplay them a bit as I wanted to give a lowest and highest interpretation
@@Sci-FiKai my favorite feats are from the DMC2 novel, you should give it a read if you haven't, dante accomplishes some impressive stuff.
@@justtrin2221 I’ll have to give it a look I haven’t heard much about it 👀
@@justtrin2221Could you list them?
@@marcus7984he beats an omnipresent and nigh omnipotent being named Void Mundus and Chen. Chen is a Human who are the beastheads which allows you to rewrite all of reality see through all timelines and it grants whatever the wielder needs if they’re backed into a corner. Dante beats him and Chen also used the Sparda family’s sword style he also had infinite IQ
I needed this bad, im writing Twitter thread about Sephiroth vs Vergil not being close 💀
That sounds like a W thread at least you don’t gotta play through all the games and find all the scans anymore lmao
I see the Death battle left many of us sore 😅.
@@Sci-FiKaifrfr Death battle talking out their ass if they think vergil looses to Sephiroth. Damn boy is more like Simpiroth
@@narusas1222honestly 😭😭
@@keashaneverts4452
And yet, Somehow Sephiroth has Time Travel Magic. Hell, he can literally Speed Himself up!
This might just be my favorite video from you thus far, you really put in your research and I must give props for that. Plus who doesn't love Dante and Virgil?
Thank you so much man 🙏 It helps that I’ve already scaled Dante and Vergil before it was just a matter of finding all the scans again.
And exactly unless a new game just released new DMC content is somewhat rare so I’m more than happy to remedy that 🙏
There’s a lot of other feats missing but it’s a really good video nonetheless we missed some stuff like Dante and the gang being able to kill metaphysical beings or Dante and Vergil I’m DMC3 transcending the concept of time and more
Yeah there’s a lot more we can pull from even some Peak of Combat stuff like Pluto bypassing the time stream and Dante still being able to keep up with him
@@Sci-FiKai Most Definitely I just didn't wish to use anything from POC because so many people love to say it's non canon tho we have statements saying otherwise 😭
There's two more feats I'd like to mention. One is beating Chen the Cannibal, someone who consumed a devil arm known as the beastheads. The arm in question gives the user power and speed rivaling Mundus, all the knowledge of the world, ALL OF IT including, Sparda's and Dante's skills in combat, as well as giving past present and future vision, and Dante managed to best him.
The other is obviously Void Mundus: not exactly creative or special, just a more powerful Mundus from another dimension, which Dante solo'd with little difficulty.
Void Mundus is embodiment of underworld and is stronger than actual Mundus
Know that
two additional abilities these two posses:
Dante, due to fusing with the rebellion, has the conceptual power to bring man and devil together. on a personal level, this is as it sounds. fusing demonic power to a human or bringing out the latent demonic power of a hybrid. on the conceptual level, it means he can fuse the demon world and the human world. similar to how Limbo crashed into the real world in the *ahem* "reboot" this could also mean, through fusing specific points in a small localised area he can possible also teleport like Vergil can as seen when he took back the Yamato from Nero. this also means that, technically, he has the ability to absorb infinite demonic power if he learns to utilize this ability to it's full extent, as seen with the Sparda. bringing his human side and fusing with the demonic world itself is a possibility. granted what this would do to him physically and mentally, who knows. but it's a POSSIBLE when looking at Rebellion's conceptual power which now resides within Dante himself (and also the Devil sword Dante)
Vergil: obviously with the Yamato, has the opposite power. seperating demonic and the human. we've seen it's conceptual power, with Vergil and V and the hell gates. but it also means he can probably defeat anything which's power relies on the demonic, severing it's bonds with itself as long as he's able to cut it with Yamato. there is a possibility he could just... whittle away at the demon world itself with infinite slashes until it is no more. and this is also probably how Nero's arm came clean off, using the Yamato's power to sever the demon arm from the human flesh.
The best video for powerscaling Dante and vergil
Thank you goat 🙏
Kinda forgot to mention the demon world is in infinite space
I've enjoyed the video. Really well done.
In the last months of 2023 a lot of PoC has been brought in question , not only with the lack of somethings in the current Beta (like a Book with enemy descriptions that would give Dante and Vergil more hax), as well the validity of the scans has been brought into question (like the ones of 9D souls and Pluto Speed) very recently. So I guess it makes sense for the skepticism.
Exclduing PoC, I would like to mention a few things (don't need to agree with them):
-A. If you go with the most basic interpretation, it seems that Dante and Vergil would likely be Multiversal. However, there are, possibly, in theroy, two ways (and this is mostly my opinion and after looking around some other sites and arguments) for them to be of a higher scale, close to Low Complex Multiversal, and maybe above:
1. If we take the interaction between of the Human World and Demon World not as two parallel universes, but both stacked on each other. If the Human World is your classic 3D/4D structure (3 of space and 1 of time) and the Demon World is a higher Dimension (since it is hintend that the souls of the dead go to there and mentioned as endless in some descriptions of item and enemies) with, inside of it, several dimensional structures (like the nirvanas and other D. World locations from DMC3) some Universe sized (like the Mirror World from DMC1, the reflection of the Human World and is one entrance to the D. World Dante used). That could make the base of the verse be Low Complex.
2. If the Ruler of Hell who Mundus defeated was the same demon that, according to the DMC3 Manga, splited the two words (which we usually refer as Pluto), that means that both brothers are likley way more powerful than the base of formation of the verse:
Mundus defeated Pluto, rivaled Argosax, and was beaten by Sparda. In DMC1 is commented how Dante was as strong or more so than Sparda (according to Griffon, in his death scene); Here he should be close or slightly higher than his father. Rivals Mundus power at worse.
During DMC2 years, though, Dante casually beat Argosax, whose Despair Embodied form (the fire one) made him more powerful than his original form that was equal to Mundus; and considered it easy and forgettable (Before the Nightmare). He also beat Void Mundus (way more powerful than regular Mundus) in the 2nd novel and also was considered easy (even this Mundis admitted that Dante didn't rival his power, actually was above him).
It all seems to indicate that Dante power grew passively and in high marging, considering the gap between DMC1 and DMC2. And then possibly so on through 4 and 5. That before gaining SDT form. From this, it is possible to believe he is way, way higher than the just Multiversal scale by the end of 5.
-B. They should have Immesurable speed. I've seen some discussion pages with links to a image with an image of Argosax Entry Enemy data, in, apparently, the DMC2 Complete Guide, page 98, with the following:
醜悪なアルゴサクス・ザ・ケイオスを触媒とすることで具現化した、 真なる姿。 両性具有の完璧な肉体と光り輝く姿を持つ。 その神々しいばかりの姿とは裏腹に､ 破壊と混沌、絶望のみを欲する究極の魔。 魔界を支配するまでになった実力は伊達ではなく、 時間や距離をも超越した瞬間移動、身に纏う光を収束しての攻撃によりダンテを翻弄する。
"It's true form, embodied by the catalyst of the abomination Argosax the Chaos. It is a hermaphrodite with a perfect body and shining figure. Despite the godlike appearance, destruction, chaos and despair is the desire of the ultimate demon. His ability to dominate the demon world is not for nothing, instantaneous movement that transcends time and distance, he plays with Dante by converging the light that surrounds him."
-C. If we go through all the lore, including weapons, itens and enemies descriptions, both brother, by now, should have defense/resitance, to some degree, against most forms of hax. Including, Space, Reality (these from the Demon lords, like Mundus) Time, Mind (Argosax created paradoxes and linked the present and past; also could cause madness on humans), Soul (of course, as mentioned) and others.
Sorry for the long comment.
I knew it was a good idea to include both interpretations just in case. I actually made this video before (to my knowledge at least( POC was being debunked,
Even still though yeah I did miss some stuff. With all of the abilities and Hax that both brothers have as well as some statements about the demon world I’m sure it wouldn’t be to hard to get them to complex multi.
@@Sci-FiKai This is the way to go nowdays, it was indeed very good to do the video like this.
PoC probably will have a final version with hopefully more descriptions to add (for the people that accept as canon).
I've look around a few pages, but the one, so far, from Comic Vine called "devil may cry's true scaling unleashed" cover multiple interpretations of scaling related to the Demon World creation better.
It could be worthy to take a look, ignoring the 9D stuff and most PoC stuff. If interested.
Once again, very well done video.
I’m glad you bring up the Argosax feat since people will obviously continue to attempt at debunking PoC until it’s American release. It’s even more impressive knowing Dante blitzes Argosax, further cementing he has inaccessible/ immeasurable speed.
Another good demonstration is during the DMC2 novel, when Dante combats Void Mundus. Void Mundus is the alternate timeline itself, and the void the two fight in. He’s omnipresent. This would make Dante’s reaction time at least nigh-omnipresent himself.
@@Doctor_MobiusGood on mentiontiong Void Mundus. The novel is often overlooked
And to add to that you mentioned, in one possible translation for the DMC Novel 2 in japanese, page 199:
魔王は...ムンドゥスは理解できなかった。
彼こそは絶対の存在であり、永遠に、時の流れからさえ独立した支配者として、森羅万象のすべてを統べることができるはずであったのだ。
しかし今ここに、彼と比肩し得る力を備えた相手がいる。
いや、もしかするとこの相手は、彼をも凌ぐ力を備えているのかもしれない。
"The Demon King, Mundus, could not understand this.
He was supposed to be an absolute being, an eternal ruler free from even the flow of time, and to rule over all things in creation.
Yet now, here was an opponent who had power that could rival his--
Nay, perhaps this opponent is even more powerful than he is."
This is mentioned in the official english release (pg. 145). it confirms Dante as more powerful,
I don't even think he uses his full power/potential in either Void Mundus or Argosax, both he claims, in the 2nd novel and Before the Nightmare, as "easy", and he just kept becoming more powerful in DMC4 and 5, even before unlocking Sin Devil Trigger.
I know why Dante is keep getting stronger, it actually has context *UNLIKE A CERTAIN BLUE HEDGEHOG*
Human blood is stated to be power source for demons
Dante is half demon and half human
And besides, he was hurt a lot of times during series, revealing his human blood to everywhere
Do I have to explain?
This answers the question of why Vergil was weaker than Dante and now equal at end of DMC5
He did not get injured as much as Dante, so he had to close the gap with Nero's arm and Qlippoth Fruit
I am not a powerscale kind of person but this video was pretty awesome
That’s surprising considering you’re a DB fan 👀
@@Sci-FiKai I can handle some powerscaling but in DB powerscaling died after the Buu saga I'd say
@@BlazedApples yeah because super scaling is so terrible 💀
very well researched and edited video high quality stuff. i feel compelled to subscribe.
Thanks bro I really appreciate it 🙏
I’m giving you a like from the intro alone!
This is a Massive W I love DMC and this video was so hype
So glad to hear it man I have a lot of other DMC vids on my channel and actually uploading a big one right now 🙏
@@Sci-FiKai Can't wait man!
Nero should be easy to scale
He’s obviously weaker than Dante during dmc 4 but slowly getting the hang of it to dmc 5 where he’s still slightly under Dantes level. Until the end of the 5th game where (Albeit Dante and Vergil were already injured and weakened) was able to keep up and damage both of them.
So safe to say Nero is still weaker than Dante and Vergil but definitely have gotten really close to their level.
If you'd ask me, Nero has WAY more potential than Dante and Vergil combined
Why? Dante and Vergil gained their Devil Trigger forms by getting hurt too much while Nero got his lost arm back and achieved Devil Trigger by his pure determination in not letting Dante and Vergil killing each other
He's got a lot more potential, and may even get stronger than Dante and Vergil in future
i still refuse to believe Nero is stronger or equal to the Sparda brothers.
Hes not they were just extremely fatigued from fighting each other for hours
He's not. Vergil was just totally gassed from fighting Dante. You can see it in the combat of each fight. When fighting him as Dante, he's hyper aggressive and fast. When fighting him as Nero, he's a lot calmer, a little slower, and even seems to have less HP.
If he was fresh and serious, Vergil would have turned Nero into a stain on the ground lol.
Dmc peak of combat
Considered canon since it has been approved by capcom and itsuno himself
Great video! Dante and Vergil are the best.
Actually I thought Dante used a small glimpse of devil trigger in the Abigail fight you could see the light that comes down when you use devil trigger
8:12 And coincidentally, being faster than the speed of light means that their universe has different laws of physics.
So, we don't know how their physics actually works, it may look similar to ours in some way, but just the fact that something in that universe CAN be faster than light means, theirs are fundamentally different.
We can't even know if the mass of one litre of water of their universe and of our universe have the same mass.
And because we don't know it, we don't have the knowledge to actually compare them to other franchises (or our universe) either.
Wouldn't that apply to almost all fiction though?
Who/what says the universe's laws allow anything/anyone in the verse to be faster than light? What makes you think dante needs permission from the pesky laws of physics to be FTL? Did the source itself not once say demons ignore the laws of reality or something along those lines? Lol
After all that and there are still ppl that think kratos is stronger than dante which is beyound funny, kratos has no chance in hell beating dante at base forum not to mention DT or SIN DT
Nah "Goku would 1 tap both at full power In base form"
and the feats from the novels? that's literally the first thing that should come to mind when you scale dmc characters
They're strong enough to kill each other, but neither strong enough to deal the final stroke.
So basically what your saying is they're at least 9d and at max 18d-45d or more which reverts back to 11 or 12 (infinitesimal) (incalc) meaning they're stronger than anyone in comics and manga combined.
Exactly
I almost always immediately hit like on any DMC video.
W lets go
I beat dmc 5 for the first time today still fumbling my combos but it's fun regardless
LES GOOOO big W don’t forget to hop in the void to practice you’ll get better s lot faster 🙏
Dimension scaling needs to go in the garbage. Sure, some characters are just way stronger than others and esoteric abilities can get weird; but this higher dimension stuff is honestly absurd. Claiming Kratos wouldn't even be able to perceive or interact with Dante because Dante is 4 dimensions over his head is an utterly deranged statement.
Don’t blame me that’s just how dimensionality works in fiction lol
Idk, I kinda like it. Sounds badass.
Especially since it very specifically says the SOUL is 9D, not just every random fucker with one.
By this guy's absurd understanding of what was probably just a cool statement about how esoteric the soul is, Kratos couldn't even "perceive" a regular fucking human from Devil May Cry, because they also have souls. It's idiotic.
Especially since Kratos also perceives and manipulates souls so he would be at the same tier anyway -_-
@@Sci-FiKai still doesn't make any sense, since the fact that they said every soul is 9th dimensional might have completely different meaning than what you described. you lost me after that, really a shame that you led of that.
@@InfiniteEscuro i'm pretty certain it was as an off hand statement, to show how mystifying the soul is. there is absolutely no chance that the writers meant this.
“But can he beat goku tho”
*yes*
Great video man
Thanks bro I appreciate it 🙏
To me I aways thought the difference between Dante and Vergil was Speed Vs Power with Vergil clearly being the faster one and Dante being the my physically stronger one.
Fodder demons are 9th dimensional but are maybe only building level in strength…. Explain yourself. This 9th dimensional tweet is blown way out of proportion
Yeah that DMC being 9th dimensional is ridiculous
I'd like to see someone scale Dante and Vergil against the Nasuverse ( Fate Grand Order ) mostly against the Aricude ( Tupe Earth ) and other true ancestors.
It's pretty clear now that Death battle did do their research properly b4 that fight.
I’m super unfamiliar with Fate but I hear Fate characters are some of the most absolutely broken characters in fiction lol
@@Sci-FiKai Yeah, I'm not too deep into fate but the power scaling in that verse is utterly ridiculous
No way in the seven hells Sephiroth could beat Vergil.
@@yaqubebased1961 you can’t beat the storm that is approaching
Imagine how powerful will be Nero`s SDT...
there's few beings that can keep up in both the 40k and DBZ universes but here we are
my guy put a whole amv in this
Yessir Dante and Vergil go way to hard 🔥
Something I think all you power scalers need to understand we are 4th dimensional beings by default. That is height width depth and time. If you are willing to accept spirit or the dimension of the mind( I see those two as the same) humans are 5th friendship😢 beings irl
But if we want to get really anime. . . Humans exist in 1) height 2) width 3) depth 4) time 5) mind/imagination 6) spirit/ki 7) emotional I would imagine that 8 and 9 might be dimension of concepts/ideas and in-between space (where trickster and dark stalker travel through
Ultra mega based video. Nero next?
It’s very possible 🌚
could you do sephiroph vs dante and how that would go in a deathbattle, since vergil lost which i feel was rigged its interesting to know how dante would fight him im huge on the whole styles makes fight thing just like in boxing
As I know, Argosax is a platonic being too
I really dislike power scaling, it's so unnecessary. Why can't we just have everyone be friends and bad guys never winning because they are wrong? Anyway good video.
Thank you lmao 🙏
Your comment needs more likes fr. Because I honestly hate debate after goddamn debate. Like honestly, people just need to enjoy the motherfucking shows, games, movies, etc, and just shut the fuck up. 😒
Power scaling exists for those who want to better understand a character/weapon/etc and the capability or destructive power in a much more comprehensive approach
Because having a basis (if not fully defined or developed) allows to not go too far when making a character and make a mistake that allows for ‘Mary Sue’s to exist or on a level that isn’t fun or interesting, especially in a good guy vs bad guy story setting. It also allows for characters to grow in power and skills for different power level battles.
@@RPGgamerWolf It's all good and useful, but irrelevant to power scaling. The things you mentioned are just general good writing. Power scaling is an inherently fan's concept which tries to attribute numbers or tiers to "feats" often regardless of their meaning.
Specifically in DMC such concepts simply don't apply, since fights are won with motivation, respect and soul. Scale of power plays no deciding role in conflicts. No need to give stupid power levels to good characters.
Just subscribed
My goat 🙏
🗿@@Sci-FiKai
Dante used SDT against post-fruit Urizen, this is shown in the dmc Visions of V manga
SSS video! New sub right here! I’m glad you did a lot of research. Just for your knowledge, there’s a channel called “Zimatorn” and he has a lot of In-depth DMC powerscalling.
Thanks man! Yeah I’m actually subbed to his channel lol. There’s also another great channel with DMC content called DigitalYT 🙏
@@Sci-FiKai awesome! It’s great to be connected and explore the lore! Yes, he’s SSS as well! Keep up the good work!
i only clicked on this video to say that before i zoomed in, i thought your user icon was a dog wearing a femto mask and i though that was preddy cool.
but godzilla is also cool.
Ever notice dante never loses to the same enemy twice if he ever loses at all
When you were explaining dimensions, im pretty sure thats not how dimensions work right? If dante was a 9th dimensional being, wouldnt he be able to just exist in every timeline and change his reality by being able to go fowards and backwards in time? Correct me if im wrong please.
That would be true if the verse itself had lower dimensionality than him. But the whole verse would be 9D so it’s basically the same as a 3D being in a 3D verse (tho unfortunately the Peak of Combat stuff has recently been proven non canon)
This vid looks total Halloween fuel of 😰.
Underrated
Way to much 🔥
Smth to note. They will keep getting stronger, since I’m not sure if there is a confirmed time where Dante and Vergin hit old ages, but since human blood powers demon blood, and both mingle in their veins, they will as I said previously, keep getting stronger as times goes on.
I really like how they added a context on getting stronger every second
Meaning at this point the only thing that could actually fight them would be another half human, half demon opponent
If the soul is 9th dimensional, couldn't it just be that when in the body we have a few slices of it (like a 3d person going in 2d sace would appear as slices of them), but when out of the body it's the full thing?
Dam u explained that 9th dimensional shit well bro
2:42
no that's NOT ok dawg
just because they don't think it's canon doesn't mean it's non-canon 💀
The problem is we don’t have a 100% answer of the devs or Capcom stating it is or isn’t canon.
We have a statement of them saying it takes place between DMC3 and 1, which there are plenty of series that have what if material that takes place during a certain period of the story that’s non-canon.
Personally I think it’s canon, but I mainly did that so my comment section wasn’t filled with people saying “it’s NoT CaNon”
@@Sci-FiKai it is "canon" in the same way the ultimate 1610 universe is "canon" , its an alternate timeline in the dmc continuity . So you can use feats and statements but technically its not the same dante vergil we are used to.
how does peak of combat take place when you can play as nero in it?
I'm ready to edge so grimmie all you've got 😌😎👌
whats that black throne mod? wheres his plastic chair?
Yo Guys Imagine if Devil May Cry and Marvel Universe! Were In the Same Universe!
Can you do the Bayonetta series?
Absolutely though that will be after a few videos 🙏
@@Sci-FiKai No problem, I also hope to see your opinion on the topic of devil may cry vs Bayonetta
That would be interesting, Death Battle did that a long time ago but that was before Bayo 2 and 3 and dmc5 i think.
I'll have to look into Bayo scaling I imagine she can get pretty high@@BlueCosmo369
to the kratos statement: you forgot that he has been to a place beyond dimensions in his canon crossover playstation allstars, otherwise everything great
Since when is all stars canon? And before you say it, the homage in gowr is not a confirmation of the game being canon. I could also argue that bayonatta is canon to dmc simply because it featured phantom and enzo in it.
@@MotivatedSonOfSparda in god of war ragnarok is it made very clear that it is canon, you can google it or watch videos about it
@@MotivatedSonOfSpardaIirc, during a boat ride, Kratos does describe and hint to it. I've not actually played Ragnarok yet, so all I can go off is a clip.
Yeah but then in an interview, Corey was asked who would win in a fight between Kratos & Scarlet Witch and Corey basically says Kratos would not be able to beat solar system buster.
@RedDusk369 link to the video please.
And I don't think he really knows how powerscaling works so
Dante can basically beat Goku and yet he can't pay the bills
W video W everything i just got a few questions
does rebelion have a known durability limit and could anyone EOS crack or destroy it
Do dopplegangers have same durability and speed as the og dante/vergil
As far as we know it’s durability limit is Urizen. So you’d have to be complex multi to be able to destroy it
Doppelgängers are weird, because for Dante they’re shadows of himself and for Vergil it’s different. They have the same speed and strength but you can’t actually damage them. They’re like ethereal.
In the case of Dante’s it’s stated that it’s literally a shadow that can hurt you, and with Vergil it’s like ethereal like mirage edge
@@Sci-FiKai i see they really are busted
I don't get it, if japanese studio decides to create a 3D Goku game with realistic faces and bodies to ours, but with powers of the anime, this will mean that Goku will be a 9D being instead of 2D ?
I think calling anything “9D” is just a fancy way of saying they’re strong. There is no explanation of what a 9D or higher being would look like or how the would interact with our universe. The highest dimension we have “knowledge” on is the fourth, which is time, and most of it is still speculation. So saying, “this character is stronger than this character because character A is of a higher dimension” doesn’t really do anything. How does Dante fighting a being who can create a universe outscales Kratos who has beaten beings who are stronger than the ones who created the universe?
In God of War before time and space were concepts, the Primordials were at war. Uranus accidentally created the universe when he punched another Primordial which would technically put all Primordials at Zero Dimensional since they existed before time, space, and the Universe itself.
These “Zero Dimensional” beings are later bodied by the Titans who are then felled with one single swing of the Blade of Olympus which contained all of Zeus’ power putting Zeus well above all the Titans, all the Primordials, and even all the gods themselves. Kratos later comes through and, aside from Zeus, no diffs the gods. Hades even tried to steal the man’s soul which Kratos outright overpowers before later stealing Hades’ soul. In terms of speed, Kratos is able to react to Helios’ light which can light up all of the Underworld which is confirmed to be an infinite Universe.
So this isn’t a Kratos vs Dante question but rather a question as to why Dante’s feat of barely beating a being who created a universe tops Kratos’ feat of stomping beings who outscales the Titans who outscales the Primordials who created the universe, time, and space itself. How can Dante be of a higher dimension when Kratos arguably has better feats than he does? How do you, as a power scaler, determine what dimension a character is if there is no scientific explanation of what these higher dimensions are or what they’d look like?
By the way, this isn’t a comment to trash you or anyone. I just found your channel the other day and have been enjoying myself. Isaac vs Leon, Predator vs. Delta Sqaud, and Delta Squad being put in the Dead Space game are some of my favorites so far.
And the GOW fans thinks Kratos can take Dante
How can you top this? Can there be a DMC game that tops five?
You should do a Nero and V video like this
That could be fun 👀
If Mundus also ate the fruit, what makes urizen so much more powerful than him?
Likley that Mundus gained most of his power through the fruit, whereas Urizen was already as powerful as Vergil with a fruit stacked ontop
@@Sci-FiKai true
In other words Muzan is F@$!ed if these 2 went to demon slayer.
Beowulf uses the power of light but never actually moves at the speed of light. He goes on all fours during the bossfight to gain some extra speed for crying out loud.
Also, he does have one attack where a bunch of light beams are shot at you. These are hard as fuck to dodge and you're likely to be hit by at least a few of them.
However in DMC5 it is stated Dante can move at hyperspeed in SDT, which by definition means faster than light. So you could scale 5Dante's speed to light in Sin Devil Trigger.
and vergil he is much faster than dante because he can stop time and cut dimensions with his yamato and another beowulf and mirrage blade and mirrage edge and also judgment cut end I thought he would be much faster than dante vergil because that eke yem motivation and also him being a storm in fact author dusse vergil and dante are multiversal
@@luisfabiobrito8499 What?
None of that proved Vergil to be faster than Dante.
@@liltone829OK. It's true that Vergil and Dante have hyperspeed which means faster than the speed of light
@@luisfabiobrito8499 Alright.
@@liltone829ok
i love that at least people are recognizing them as strong. still, i hate when people start saying "insert dimensions level" or whatever with power scaling these days. even when i agree with the results, it feels so limited and stupid, and rejects so much context, both in universe and IRL. like not everything fits into it and its also just like... self defeating... using its own logic EVERY fictional character is 2d at best.
like foder enemies wouldnt be shit to kratos but people think "well 9d blah blah blah" despite the fact that we directly see they cant at ALL preform near on his level.
and i say that being a significantly higher dmc fan than ANYTHING else ive ever seen, read, or played.
and no, vergil didnt move faster than the speed of light to kill beauwolf. theyve SHOWN vergil using super speed both in gameplay and cut scenes. if they wanted it to be super speed, theyd make it look different than him simply jumping, which they do in other instances. yes dante and vergil can easily break the speed of light ranges, but thy arent constantly that fast, thats why dante can be surprised and capped in the face by a normal human. they have to actively choose to get to that level.
theres also just some factually twisted statements in this video. yes, the hell vanguard are embodiments of their sin, BUT their forms that you fight are NOT, and vergil states this and the downside to this in the prequel manga, and dont try saying its not canon as its been stated, any statement that is not strictly contradicted or denied, its still canon, even if the book isnt as a whole.
Vergil states that being concepts, they cant do anything to the physical world, as such they need to limit themselves, making the pathetic bodies that make up the vanguard, and he even goes on to state that with every vessel killed, it could potentially limit the power said sin has to begin with.
and summons sword being examples of SOUL manipulation? no its fucking not, yes its using his power but its not his SOUL. thats a much different level right there. and he cant manipulate light using beowulf, manipulating light means any light, all light, not just throwing a ball or light following your hands and feet. the weapons emit light energies, they dont MANIPULATE them. shooting something out isnt manipulation at all, i cant manipulate light or electricity just because i can set a flashlight to high or low power. and hey, using that dimensional logic, im beyond anything, as im LITERALLY 3d and NO fictional character is actually beyond 2d. unless i guess you count a cardboard cutout or some shit. even vr, it LOOKS 3d but isnt actually, at all. until its actually real, it will ALWAYS, by LITERAL DEFINITION be 2d.
I got people saying Kratos is outer which i disagree
@@Fighter_Z_9000 this whole power scaling shit is stupid. by its own definition everyone is only 2 dimension at best
@@BloodDragon-rp4xc yup. I still think Dante beats Kratos
@@Fighter_Z_9000 me too, but i dont think it has anything to do with that weird demission thing. cause that would mean kratos couldnt even beat a Beelzebub bug from DMC1 which obviously kratos could stop one no problem
UMVC3 vergil still clears
DMC fans try not to glaze Sparda sons challenge level impossible
(im a dmc fan)
??
Kratos fanboy?
0:01 Its Legendary dark knight not just legendary devil hunter like it mentioned in Dmc5,, Its really disgusting how capcom and itsuno downgraded Dante's position
I think both titles fit pretty well but I admit I do kinda like Legendary Devil Hunter more since I feel it fits Dante better and is a unique title for him.
I feel like Legendary Dark Knight would fit Vergil a bit more since he’s always looked up to his father and the way he acts and dresses.
“Devil Hunter” has always been the more accurate title for Dante. I know he’s accomplished much higher feats than his father who was the Legendary Dark Knight, but still it’s always been Dante’s thing to exterminate each and every demon who infiltrates the human world
Legendary Dark Knight is what Sparda was called, which is why it's Legendary Devil Hunter now.
I agree that Dante is stronger than Kratos however saying fodder Daemons are stronger is stupid, lady who is a normal human kills them with ease and humans are clearly shown as humans like us, which is the baseline for power across all universes.
Don’t forget forget in regards to Lady she is a descendant of a Priestess who helped Sparda seal off the Demon realm from the Human one, we don’t have any lore or data to how this power functioned, but considering she not only survived a pretty serious stabbing to the thigh from Arkham in dmc3 and also she survived a lot of punishment from Urizen in doc 5 when other humans died instantly when attacked by Qulipoth roots Andy lesser demons, she is clearly stronger than she looks for a supposed baseline human.
You do know normal humans in fiction are not built the same as humans in real life. You got normal humans in Marvel & DC being able to react to faster than light attacks, let alone frickin normal cops being able to arrest Thanos.
garfield still solos though
Entirely, negative dif. Not even dimensionally close. Glory to Garf
Wait going by dimensions and power scaling, wouldn't characters be low complex off rip as to be 9D you have to be above universal and even multiversal. At a normal universe is 3D while a multiverse is 5-6D.
*Goku Enters the Chat*
How come you skip dmc 2? You skipped it with the timeline vid too
And Nero is supposed to be stronger than the Danta and Vergil together?
I think the wildest part of this video in particular has to be the inaccessible speed part. You came to this conclusion by mentioning how Dante gained the ability to stop time. Bit hes still moving, so that puts him in accessible speed. Brother in christ. Thats not how it works. That's just Dante stopping time. There are so many problems with this that I don’t think you realize.
Not only would this statement contradict a lot of what happens in the game, but it simply doesn’t even make sense as a concept.
By this logic, anybody who can stop time has access to inaccessible speed. Homura now has inaccessible speed because of this. Byleth has inaccessible speed because of this. Jotaro has inaccessible speed because of this.
By this logic, Dante wouldn't have any business of beating that demon either. Plus, does this basically mean that anybody who deals with time manipulation automatically places a character at inaccessible speed? Come on. We got to put some realism into account when it comes to this game instead of pulling out weird statements.
My brother in Christ.
You brought up realism when talking about inaccessible speed, a concept that is literally fictional and impossible in the real world.
Also yes if you can move in stopped time you have access to inaccessible speed.
“But he’s still moving”
Brother. It’s a video game. Can you actually see something moving at inaccessible speed? No. Goku is FTL, can you see FTL speeds? No.
The game has to actually be able to function. Every piece of fiction with superhuman feats has to be able to actually show what it’s trying to convey.
@EightUltra When I say realism, I'm specifically referring within the context of DMC. For example, why exactly would Dante suddenly have inaccessible speed? Does he have a super speed ability that makes him go that fast? Any passive that keeps him unaffected by his own timestop?
The idea that having access to timestop = inaccessible speed is just goofy. Only proving that the powerscaling community has gone downhill. Timestop is an ability. This would make Shania getting punched make no sense at all. Because according to you, she has "inaccessible" now.
No need for any vehicle either. Sense you're so fast that none of those things aren't even needed.
Despite Jotaro being physically slow byself himself, and have multiple limitations, he's inaccessible in speed. So he should've easily have been able to come up to Kira and absolutely wash him without any issues.
You realize how goofy this sounds? The only way you can come to this conclusion is through some insane levels of wank. Just because you aren't impacted by your OWN ABILITY doesn't mean that you have inaccessible speed.
Dante has 2 inaccessible speed feats, and 1 omnipresent feat.
1. He blitzes Argosax, who’s stated to have “instantaneous movement that transcends time and distance.”
2. He defeats Pluto, whose speed “bypasses the dimensional axis of time.”
3. He defeats Void Mundus, who’s omnipresent.
To top it off, he has Quicksilver, Bangle of Time, Chrono Heart, and the Key of Cronus.
@@Doctor_Mobius Couldn't have said it better myself. Thinking this other guy just has a hard time comprehending things. Luckily you were here for him.
DEMON POWER..cany expect anything less😂
Me myself and I
Yeah no dude that is were I stop listing. Just because beowolf uses light attacks doesn't means he is anywhere near the speed of light. So nah sorry, this so called "you have to be at the speed of light to beat somebody" is getting old. Just because you were able to "beat" them, does not in anyway mean that you are stronger than them
Dmc 5 Dante solos the dbz universe
*et cetera...
not "exetera"
smt is canon is that enough?
Dante didn't defeat moondus.. he only sent moondus back to the demon realm.. he should've been the big bad dm5.. they need to bring moondus back
Actually in the dmc5 manga it’s stated that Mundus is dead. I thought the same thing but yeah 💀
Both the dmc2 novel and dmc5 manga state Mundus is dead.
@@Sci-FiKai But Mundus said he`ll return
@@Maxim-5_Squaredmaybe in dmc.6?
doesnt the 9th dimensional thing come from a non canon source
The source is canon but 9th dimensional souls are now fodder for dmc☠️
Canon or not, it only upscales stuff like Mirage Edge, a blade made by Vergil's own soul which is 9D
A flashlight emits light therefore you must be able to move at light speed to use it - this video in a nutshell.
Noice
Lol, these vids are why comic books and some game lore sucks. well he's faster than light but in ultra mode he's 10x speed of light but then with ultra max he's beyond god. Like... How stupid is this
Idek what you’re saying lol
Tf you mean 9th dimensional bruh it’s a 3d game on a 2d screen
Odd way to say low multi with mftl+ speeds but ok
Gotta correct this: Urizen breaking the Rebellion isn't a feat greater than what Mundus is capable of.
Mundus broke the Yamato, a comparable, if not superior, sword.
Moreover, we cannot attribute this power to Urizen himself, as his power was being boosted by the Qlipoth, so it's really the tree's power.
And given how we never faced Mundus at his full power, it's actually entirely possible he's stronger than post 5 Dante and Vergil.
Dmc2 novel dante fought and bodied a far stronger version of mundus. Devil trigger wasn’t even needed 🤷♂️
@@MotivatedSonOfSparda
It's questionable if that novel is even canon, but even if it was, we can't really compare that Mundus to dmc1 Mundus, as dmc1 Mundus was using a large portion of his power to open the portal to human world, while dmc2 novel Mundus wasn't, and was speculated to be weaker than the Mundus in dmc1.
Void Mundus is literally embodiment of underworld itself
And Dante at base one shotted beings that are stated to be equal to Mundus
Argosax for example, he had one hell of a rivalry with Mundus
*Destroyed*
Aligail, someone that's power is on par with Mundus
*Rip*
@@LegoWhisbecauseyes
Point by point:
Irrelevant, I've already addressed this.
Argosax was neither one shotted, as there was an entire two stage boss fight, and his "rivalry" is questionable at best.
My theory, so not canon but trying to make sense of it, is that Argosax was an incredibly powerful demon, with a strong following, that, while Mundus wasn't unable to completely wipe out, would have cost him, Mundus, more than he would have wanted to expend doing so. Because if you look at the two boss fights, it's no competition who's more powerful, and only one of them, Mundus, was weakened during their fight with Dante.
As for "Abigail", he/it wasn't a threat to base Dante AT ALL, and yet Dante needed the Sparda, at it's full power, and even Trish boosting Dante, just to seal Mundus away.
Let me repeat that: Mundus isn't dead, even having the Sparda and Trish boosting him, and Mundus being weakened, Dante couldn't successfully kill Mundus.
Whereas "Abigail" was killed without much trouble, by Dante, unboosted.
The legends behind Argosax and Abigail are blatantly overblown, there's no other way to, honestly, describe it.
@@FBI-ju5nothe novel is canon
Dante >>> Goku
First off Quicksilver doesnt stop time or even slow it down its specifically stated in the dmc3 guide book it makes dante move so fast time seems to slow down 2nd Even if it stopped time we shouldnt assume dante's own ability would affect him Basically meaning hes just immune to his own quicksilver but that doesnt give him inaccisble speed
LoL powescaling is always so much dumb (even if this time, dmc lore descriptions are at fault too).
Then why are you watching power-scaling videos lol
Dimensional concepts for scaling characters has gotta be some of the most idiotic shit I've ever heard.
The intro song is long and annoying