@dancingvalkyrie just because you are well intentioned doesn't mean you're 100% right. No the jedi weren't 100% right and in the past they commit crimes like the sith genocide or the padawans massacre on Taris. Dealing in absolute take you on the same level as the sith, my dear absolutist.
I think one of the biggest issues of the Jedi Order isn't even mentioned here: There major role in escalating the separatist crisis to a galactic-scaled war. Yes the CIS secretly built up a huge droid army, but there was never any hint of them actually intended of causing war - more so to use their army as weight for their diplomatic demands. Even in Episode 2, when Count Dooku speaks with the separatist council, he never speaks of any war efforts, only their demands to the republic. And it's obvious they need an army to give them diplomatic weight, because even without the clone army, the Republic sill has a lot of local militia and the Jedi Order to enforce their will. The extended lore even explains that General Grievous later had to unify the droid army command structure to be even ready to a galactic-wide conflict. If the CIS really wanted war from the beginning, they would have done this on Geonosis already. Geonosis wasn't a member of the republic (or at least they declared themself not to be), so no Jedi or any Republic enforcer have any legal rights on their soil. Despite this, Obi-Wan got there and spied around in secret dungeons. Did they have to execute him? No, but again, Dooku gave Obi-Wan a chance to join him. Otherwise, from the CIS point of view, letting him go would risk their plans to be revealed and the Republic raising an army. Later Anakin and Padme showed up, and Anakin straight up killed Geonosians for simply defending their home, which again, they entered as armed, foreign spies. Even after all this, the Jedi never bothered to contact Count Dooku - which to this point they believed not to be capable of killing innocents as a former Jedi - and simply tried a diplomatic solution. Their reaction is to sent in a strike force and solve this issue with violence. Ladies and Gentlemen, i present to you the "Guardians of Peace". Even if the separatists wanted war it's no excuse for the Jedi to directly go for violence. The Clone Wars haven't even started yet. This is also why so many - not just separatists - blame the Jedi for this war. And they are right. The CIS may have not been this innocent victim, but the Jedi never bothered to even *try* to resolve this peacefully.
I wouldnt say the Jedi or the Mandelorians or any faction in star wars is fully good and without flaws. Part of what makes this series interesting. I like when characters use criticising the Jedi to do something bad because those arguments hit harder and are more narritively interesting if they have some merit.
The more I think about the Jedi, the more I sympathize with Luke's disillussion on them. Even if their existence DOES inspire hope on the galaxy, they should probably not have that much power ever again.
I agree. While many/most of the Jedi were good on an individual level, and did good on an individual level, as an organization they had sacrificed their ideals for political convenience. They should have had the ability to intervene in the affairs of the galaxy, but they never should have become enforcers for the Senate.
@@WhereinMedia Ideally, the Jedi post-TRoS should be reworked into an organization separate from the galaxy's politics. A better version of what Luke was working towards. So I guess the answer is a separation of the church and the state.
@@matti.8465 Honestly, that's a pretty solid analogy. Mace Windu was going to execute the legitimately elected leader of a secular government because Palpatine was the Jedi equivalent of a heretic. Granted, Palpatine was playing both sides of the war and definitely should have been removed from power, but that doesn't empower the Jedi council to play judge/jury/executioner.
@@WhereinMedia As horrible as the galaxy becoming a police state was, the thought of it being ran by a cult is scarier (and probs why people sided with Palpatine) Beings who see themselves as superior and have a complete disregard for the regular people should NOT be in power. They are not servants of the people, they only serve their dogma and the supposed "will of the force"
@@matti.8465 Agreed. The Jedi attempt to remove Palpatine from power played right into his hands, and gave him all the reason he needed to declare the new order. From the perspective of the Senators and the general populace, half the galaxy had betrayed them and then the Jedi betrayed them. You bet your boots they would want a strong figurehead for a "safe and secure society".
Lmao at pixelated Jar Jar. I'm on season 2 of clone wars. Anikin's fall to the dark side is more believable watching the show. Here's an open question: Is the prophecy explicitly documented anywhere? It's always bothered me that the Jedi embraced the coming of "the one who will bring balance to the force" when there's hundreds of Jedi vs only a handful of dark side practitioners. Maybe I'm missing something, otherwise balancing the force is a matter of simple arithmetic.
The dark side does not cause imbalance, but the Sith do. The Force sends a Chosen One to destroy the Sith after Darth Plagueis tries to manipulate the Midichlorians to create life. The Force retaliates Plagueis by giving Shmi Skywalker a child from no father. I don’t fully remember the prophecy’s quote but it mentions an oval building as the core of evil, and with that we assume Jedi are quite dumb.
@@gabrielferracini8859 by balance we mean genocide right? In phantom menace the Jedi clearly state there are 2 sith, master and apprentice. Maul is assumed dead so an entire Jedi council seeks to kill what they believe is the last and ONLY sith in a whole damn galaxy? Not nation, planet, but a whole galaxy. Grevious is not a sith. Dooku is believed to be the master who obtains new apprentices until revenge of the sith where they learn palps is the master. So for the Jedi council they believe balance means eradicating literally all sith despite there only being believed to be 2 in a whole galaxy?
@@82Goobers but not in context of the actual franchise. Even since the OT the dark side appears to be naturally occurring. In dagobah there was some dark side cave Luke went into and the dark side is achieved via normal emotions we know Jedi have as shown in the PT like ambition, pride, anger, etc. I think an interesting question is why are other force sensitive or even non-force sensitive beings NOT tempted by the dark side? Why is the dark side in EP 1-6 only accessible to sith and Jedi?
I would argue that yes they were. They taught and were taught all the right moral lessons and they genuinely were trying to help the galaxy. That said good people can do great evil when mislead. I also do think that while their lessons were correct, their dogmatic approach to teaching those lessons were harmful. It is ok to love and it is ok to have attachments so long as those attachments don’t turn to possession, and so long as you are able to let go of those attachments and accept loss without turning to hatred.
I don't know how good the Jedi are but they're at least better than the mandalorians I don't think the reason that the weekend with the force was because they're closer to the dark side I think it's because they are more closed off from the Galaxy than ever before.. if you look at Legends and Canon the Jedi do some pretty horrible things before the prequel era hey Google start using abilities as a non-standard they don't even have to be dark side abilities per se. I'd save a prequel era Jedi are actually the most moral since they founded the Jedi tradition
Counter point, they're taught this code because an untrained person at any age with force powers is friggin dangerous. Even just knowing telekinesis they can be a massive threat. Also as Ahsoka proves, when they're old enough they can just fuck off and leave.
It is striking to ear Obi Wan answering to Anakin : only a sits deals in absolutes, what about Yoda then "do or do not, there is no try" he must be a sith according to them.
7:40 "In their defense they were right." It is not completely right or wrong as the Jedi never truly trusted and even respected Anakin despite everything he did for them. Sure they had a point of Anakin's flaws but I don't think fanning the flame on him was a good idea.
If I choose between the Jedi or Sith order? I would pick the Jedi every time because they stand for peace and justice teaches people how to be responsible for using the force without falling to the dark side sure they are flaw but no knightly order is perfect it just shows that they had more to learn to be better protectors and I can live with that. As for the Sith while I can understand the appeal of the Sith order and there code felt more relatable to normal people but using the dark side isn’t reliable long term. If it was Sith like Darth Marr and Darth Malgus in the old republic yeah I would willing follow them because they actually care for the Sith empire more than themselves but if it Sith like Darth Nihlius,Valkorian,Sidious,and others like them than no. So yeah I choose the Jedi as for lightsaber color for me I want a natural red color lightsaber for my primary lightsaber because I want to redeem the red color lightsaber cause in the end of the day colors are subjective and for my secondary lightsaber will be green for wisdom.
"If I choose between the Jedi or Sith order?" But they are not the only to factions. The biggest political entities in the Star Wars saga was the Republic and later the CIS. And since most galactic beings are not force-sensitive, it is more likely that you had to choose between them instead of Jedi or Sith. Heck, even within the Jedi-Sith-Conflict there are 3rd parties like Grey or Dark Jedi, or being technically a Jedi but not a pawn of the order, like Qui-Gon - arguably the only true Jedi during the prequel era. As a Jedi i would simply leave the Order during the Clone Wars and do my own thing.
The weird thing about the Jedi's fighting tactics is that they really are the result of giving people with no experience leading troops or combat experience beyond the skirmish level the rank of general and throwing them into mass combat after millenia of peace. The big question is how much of that was deliberate in the movie of just a post hoc interpretation that proved to fit? Basically the entirety of the clone war was Palpatine reflecting about the weaknesses and flaws of the Jedi order and the Republic and finetuning his plans to exploit them.
Not all the Jedi were 'good guys'. Jedi like ki Adi Mundi, Jorus C'boath, Cypher Diaz, Count Dooku & many others had issues. Arrogance being one of them.
I agree with the Mind Trick thing, I feel like the Sith would be more likely to use it, mostly to cause just random chaos. “You want to blow up that building with these explosives” and then handing them bombs sounds like something Vader would do.
Vader won't really do it unless he encounters extreme scenarios like a hostile individual/group of individuals/nation/planet. As a Sidious-like manager everywhere he works, he needs careful calculations, even in the most precarious situations. Furthermore, Vader's fighting style is literally the reflection of his cautious working style, he dedicates whole-heartedly to defense and only goes for critical strikes when the hostile still expresses violent manner, or else he just disarm them without so much harm like he did to Luke at Cloud City. Luke lost his hand from Vader's attack because he land the death blow first. If not because of Vader's armour, he would have been dead. For a manager, law enforcer, judge, prime minister, that is crucial.
They were fanatics who thought they were doing good...but Lukes approach of a more neutral approach and just trying to do good with action instead of all the rules and fanatisism
In the grand scheme of things the Jedi did much good for the galaxy as a whole. They weren't the best _at_ it but they did help with a lot of things. But they had a LOT of issues. They operated a lot like a cult, they were out of the loop with how the rest of the galaxy lived, they often were tunnel-visioned on trying to establish a surface peace rather than fixing the issues that caused the conflict in the first place, and they often took things at face value rather than looking into them further. There's actually a Megas XLR quote I can paraphrase here that fits quite well. The Jedi weren't the best guys, but they ain't no bad guys either.
While the Jefi have their flaws, the Sith (particularly people like Darth Sidious) are a lot worse as they actively seek power and destruction alongside choosing to commit henious crimes for their sick amusement.
@@tunebeat3809 Never said the Sith weren't bad, no idea why you're bringing that line of discussion up. Although I would like to bring up Darth Vectivus as being an exception. Darth Vectivus was mostly a scholar of the Dark Side, he didn't really do any of the conquering or murdering or other nasty shit that most Sith do.
Obi Wan was actively hunting an assassin that was very much in the process of attempting to assassinate an innocent woman, and who had been a conspiracy that has just blown up a ship and killed multiple individuals that had the particular ability to change the way the individual appeared which meant they could only act as bait, and if they otherwise did nothing they would be morally complicit in other murders the individual caused or the alternative of removing a single limb that could as you pointed out be replaced which is a cost far short of murder given a lightsabers instant cauterization of the wound and also all peace keeping, or in the clone wars era military force was complicit with coercion tactics in many ways including most powerful modern nations, and police forces.
Albeit the process of recruiting children was wrong however an untrained force user was highly likely to accidentally fall to 'the dark side' which in this particular universe appears to be a corruption that the individual down the path is almost an addict with very few who go down the path coming back to the light which makes it a matter of galactic security that to some extent they would still have the need to track and to some extent guide force users away from the corruption of the dark side and though it was wrong to head the clone armies it was the Republic that ordered the adoption and use of the clones which seemed to be a decision that the chancellors emergency powers meant he would have to be the individual who adopted the official deployment of the clone forces.
But the major problem of the jedi is that they separated themselves from the sith while jedi and sith follows the same force. You shouldn't overcome your emotions, you should keep the balance between reason and emotion.
Yeah, the whole clone thing is one of those story lines that you just cannot think about as it makes no sense. Like why does the republic even have to do this? In a whole galaxy of people they cannot raise an army? Are they broke and cannot afford one so need slave labor? Are there laws against a draft or military service in this universe?
Or it's more that they got caught by surprise and didn't have the time to train a semi-competent Army to hold back the CiS droid Army without taking casualties that would make Stalingrad look like a stubbed toe. It just so happened a Jedi master thought this was stupid and took a bunch of money to Kamino to order a secret clone army. Too bad Dooku got to him first.
In response to the bounty hunter's arm; in fairness, the woman was armed, had used weaponry before and was ready willing to attack at the time. Not very far fetched for obi wan to kill her, let alone maim her.
Yes... because The Maker says they are... The Sith are not misunderstood... the Sith are the bad guys... George explained it simply... Light Side = Good Guys Dark Side = Bad Guys Just because they are the good guys doesn't mean they are perfect and make no mistakes. But they were still written as the Good Guys in Star Wars 💙
They did actually, by orders of the republic a couple of thousand years before the Clone Wars. That's how the eternal conflict between the Jedi and the Sith truly began. Granted, Korriban wasn't blown to bits per say, but it has been nothing but a lifeless husk ever since and the Jedi/Republic massacre of the Sith people directly led into their inevitable extinction as a race. (Emporer Vitiate putting the final nail in the coffin with his actions on Nathema) Leaving just the cult of darksiders that would go on the share their name and become the Jedi Orders nemesis.
No they kidnapped them and force em into something and make them mindless emotionless warriors soldiers that’s why I love cal kestis so much he saw that and destroyed the codex for all children that are/could be force users
You missed the point entirely. Star Wars universe is similar to our own, but there's a crucial difference - THE FORCE, which is the primordial, supreme power and the source of all creation. Jedi following the force consider themselves as followers and executors of its will and what it wants is supposedly for the benefit of all the universe. In Lucas' world religious orders are justified.
the question still raises quite a lot of fuss about Sith/Jedi teachings. Sith's Rule of Two law is really the freaking OP thing, brutal, treacherous, insidious manner to each other is what makes the Sith so powerful compared to the Jedi. But when Sidious takes over the Galactic Empire, he cannot apply that brutal ideologies to managerial stuff, which needs some tenderness and cleverness, not cruel, malicious iron grip. Also the Rule of Two lineage for governing is such a genius idea from Darth Bane when truly examining it. Sith in this doctrine must be intelligent, smart, battle-hardened, but he/she has to show eagerness when learning whatever knowledge they can get their hands on, either from the Sith master or from external sources. In order to penetrate into the Republic political circles, they have to excel at law, managerial expertise, and they have to be extremely rich to rig the Sith apprentice to replace him and go higher, then repeat the cycle until one becomes a monarch like Palpatine. Yikes
2:44 yes but thats just any soldier desertion is a crime punishable by prison or death in some cases in our world, so i doubt its a jedi policy. probably more of a rebublic policy also the jedi don't own the clones, thats the republic
I agree with many of your points but sometimes you the twisted the context like obi wan cutting her hand she had a gun in her hand he did it in self defense and mace windu with teh ziillow beast the beast would have been saved by the republic and they wouldn’t have to kill it
Missed the notification some how. Another insightful video:) 👍🏻 Never liked the Jedi order or how they handled things. The mandalorian show : more mandalorians; less jedis. Would love to see live action Boba best a Jedi or two. :)
@@WhereinMedia we did get Ashoka attack din from behind with dual light sabers. Blocked everything. Whip corded arms to her side and had blaster on her for couple seconds b4 she jumped over tree branch. :)
@@andrewfett142 True. Ahsoka's abilities did feel a touch toned-down in The Mandalorian from what she seemed capable of towards the end of Clone Wars, but I think Din could have taken her in that fight if he wasn't trying to get her help. I definitely would like to see some more Mando v Jedi fights, especially if they included some of the jetpack-incorporated fighting techniques we saw Koska Reeves use against the Quarren fishermen.
@@WhereinMedia you’re welcome. Also, if for some reason you are looking for video suggestions I would like to propose that you look at the nature of the light vs. dark side of the force. Like how the Dark side isn’t exactly EVIL(from my point of view anyway) and rather being self centered and non-caring for the well-being of others is the best way of getting the maximum mileage out of the Darkside of the force.
So wait! The Jedi are bad for having the clones but these are the future stormtroopers that were the majority of the Empire. Didn't Palpatine and Darth have them as slaves and yet Palpatine and Darth were never judged for using the stormtroopers as slaves and yet way to many people admire them
Dang! No wonder Dooku turned to Sidious when leaving the Jedi. You may as well show the clips of Dooku turning to the dark as well. Also 19:25 No! Not necessarily! Haven’t you heard of Benjamin Franklin before??? Benjamin Franklin “Democracy is like having2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner!!!”
Exactly. That's why people like Kissinger said in the 70s _"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves"_ before sending the CIA to orchestrate the coup against Allende that lead to his murder and 17 years of murderous dictatorship... Wait... is the US government and its allies actually the villains of our timeline?
Were the heroes of George's Star Wars "the good guys"? Yes. Yes they were. And the stormtroopers were the baddies. If were wondering. Happy to solve this mystery of yours. I'll throw in a bonus one, the nazis in Schindler's List...they were the baddies. I know it can be confusing sometimes. There are hints here and there...like Kenobi sacrificing himself and the Empire blowing up planets. Tiny details that can be overlooked. You really have to have a keen eye and a sharp mind. Also...the Sith be like "I haaaaaate you!!" and "mohahahaha I'm electrifying your kid" while Jedi be like "Peace...and be kind."
They were the good guys but they also had some problems lol as soon as they were gone the sith made sure everyone suffered. The Jedi prevented that for so long
They were good in the same sense that britain ussr etc were good in WW2. We all know how awful they are when they aren't fighting a genocidal maniac. Or even when they are...
Absolutely not. The Jedi & The Republic are the undeniable and un debatable bad guys of Star Wars: The Clone Wars. That’s why I honestly don’t think that I’ll ever be able to bring myself to watch that again. We all knew that The Sopranos was about mobsters. We all knew that Walter White was gonna Break Bad. But there’s something really creepy and insidious to me about how Star Wars is portrayed as being family friendly and kid centered entertainment but during all 7 seasons and of SWCW the Separatist are the heroes and the Jedi & Republic are the villains. It even made me rethink how much I love the original trilogy. Because after watching every season of SWCW I came away from it not seeing re-establishing the Jedi & Republic as a worthwhile endeavor. And maybe Luke Skywalker would’ve felt the same way if he knew all that we came to know from SWCW 1-7. Star Wars Andor is still amazing though. And at least there we get to see a conflict where the actual good guys are the protagonist.
As much as I might try to sometimes, no. The point I was making there is that we wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) be morally okay with the police maiming people to make their jobs easier. That same morality shouldn't be set aside simply because lightsabers are cool.
Anytime this topic comes up with friends I like to point out that the jedi willfully go around searching for children who have the specific qualities they want, take them from their parents and then indorenate them into their religious cult. the "good guy" doesn't do that. I remember a group in 1939 Germany that did similar things. I also like to ask people "Who would you rather party with? The jedi or the Sith?".
I agree with a lot of this video except for the points at the end comparing the Jedi to the likes of Walt and Frank Castle. Those two men did/do what they did/do because at their core they are narcissists looking for excuses to feel good. At least the Jedi want to do good.
Where is the line drawn between doing things for the sake of good and doing things to feel good? Is there a concrete point at which it turns over, or is it largely down to the manner in which these characters are presented to the audience? I agree that the Jedi began as an organization that was intended to do good, in the same way that Frank Castle and Walter White both set out to do good things (stop criminals and support his family, respectively). And just like with Frank and Walter, somewhere along the line the Jedi lost sight of the point. It's an old cliche, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions
The jedi saved lives and liberated enslaved planets so yeah they were good guys. TCW attempts to spread the narrative that the jedi are "corrupt" without actually elaborating on anything. The prequel trilogy itself was never meant to spread that narrative as even George Lucas himself has said that the rise of the Empire was entirely Anakin's fault for making bad choices.
Well WHY ELSE would the Force have allowed the Jedi to ultimately lose the Clone Wars, hm? Between the two the Sith were the only ones who actually kept to their code
@@jeremyallen5974 What are you blabbering about? The force didnt allow anything, it was Anakin's treachery and Palpatine's plan that allowed the Empire to rise
@@dancingvalkyrie He wouldn't have turned if the Jedi Order had actually given him the benefit of the doubt instead of treating him like shit from the moment he stepped into their temple
There are a multitude of ways to disarm someone that don't involve dismemberment, especially for someone with extra-sensory perception, enhanced reflexes, and telekinesis.
anyone who can fit a argument to their views is not a good person. in star trek voyager tuvok an alien who couldn't lie, cheat and steal did so because of the right point of view and old capt. told him anyone can make the worse seem right with the right view. if it wasn't good for a valcan how does it work for humans and most jedi were humans or humanlike so no bad guys and child kidnappers too.
The Jedi weren’t ok with or sign off on the creation of the clone army also they didn’t jump at the chance to become generals in the army their hands were forced by the senate or be branded traitors to the republic their incompetence as generals doesn’t make them evil it makes them bad generals
The Jedi were only “Good” from a “Certain point of view” as Palpatine just told us as an audience in Episode 3 🤷🏾♂️. Great break down on this video man , just subscribed now 🔥🔥🔥.
That's why Kreia is my favourite character of all SW medias. That's why the trailer of TLJ gave me hope thay took that road with Luke... and they kinda took it, juste watered it down.
Fairly agreeable. Both Jedi and Sith are blinded by their own hubris and inability to act properly at the appropriate time. Improvement on both sides is slow because of the ability to self-correct. At least, to the credit of the Sith, their self-correction was often faster because they had to adapt faster than they could kill each other (speaking of pre-Banite Sith, of course...Korriban) This is not to say that neither was more morally aligned to good and the other to evil, yet though the Sith are aligned with evil and the Jedi to good, evils can and have been committed by both. The Sith revel in it. The Jedi sweep it under the rug or ignore/deny self-righteously. For force-sensitives, it is blind and weak to be dogmatically limited to the teachings of the Jedi, however the exact same can be said of the Sith. Do not only be in the Light (Jedi), for then you are blinded. Do not be seduced and fallen fully to the Dark Side (Sith), destruction of everything for power and then eventually yourself and your power also perish. Both represent a willingness to sacrifice oneself to Force ideology rather than allowing any independence of thought not distorted in extreme or the other by the Force. Be you, and wield rather than control. Let The Force fully immerse you and flow through you, the Light and the Darkness. Fear none of it, but understand what you need not fear before delving in. This is the only way out of the trap. Perhaps no one understood this better than Lord Revan. Well, that and also that there is a difference between a fall and a sacrifice, as well as a great many other things that makes Revan the GOAT in a galaxy full of hollow titles and points-of-view. I would love to see Revan enter the era of the clone wars segwaying into Order 66 and see how he would have handled and responded to all of that. Could Revan have prevented the rise of Darth Sidious and Darth Vader? Fascinating to ponder as a "what-if" scenario. I would spit out my coffee if Disney brought Darth Nihilus to live action. Not holding my breath, but it would be awesome. They could not make him hellish enough, unfortunately. It would have to be filmed more like an action thriller horror film with extra heavy horror overtones and undertones. Either English speaking or Ancient Sith with subtitles so we can finally peer deeply into the mind of the Lord of Hunger in real time.
accepting both the Light and Dark but staying loyal to what is right is pretty much what Luke's Jedi ideas, embedded by Luke himself, the council masters that are mainly former dark adepts, and Battle Master Kyle Katarn, who pretty much the one set the Jedi ideas and Luke had little debate since he's too experienced for him. I still miss that quote: "The Force is a tool, Jaden. Sometimes a weapon, sometimes a salve. Dark Side, Light Side, these are distinctions of insignificant difference. Do not fall into the trap of classification. Sentience curses us with a desire to categorize and draw lines, to fear that after this be dragons. But that is an illusion. After all this is not dragons but more knowledge, deeper understanding. Be at peace with that."
@@quangtrungbui675 Nice even down to the finest detail of Luke's caution about the illusion of the dragon. Vader perceived a dragon that he had to crush to be free from the fear of loss and death. If I recall correctly I believe RotS novelization goes into more detail about the dragon because as he is crushing the dragon, he comes out of his anger to realize he had actually just Force choked Padme into unconsciousness. In his succumbing to fear of the dragon, he did the unthinkable even for himself.
@@wyattE415 Yoda's words maybe correct somehow. Fear leads to confusion, confusion leads to mistake, mistake leads to fear, then anger, then hate, then suffering. But Yoda is also the example of how stale the Jedi had become at that time. They dogmatically worship the light. This is quite different in Luke and Katarn' Jedi Order, they both went from everything Yoda fears, but in the end they chose to embrace their feelings, but not sinking into it like the Sith, basically Kakashi but with lightsabers. And from the more natural doctrine, it's much harder to corrupt Jedi.
Yes, they were very flawed but they were still the good guys. I have no idea where this narrative they're not came from, stop trying to put grey element to something that wasn't designed to have one.
What they really need to do is take off their nostalgia glasses and actually think about what would be going through Ani's head as the supposed 'wisest beings in the galaxy' spouted out glorified fortune cookie bullshit in response to him telling them that he was struggling
I like your take on star wars but god I cringed everytime you tried to show the absurdity and the hypocrisy of the morals of this fictional word with what you thought were hyperbolic examples of the real world. Like cops not following "procedure" being something absurd in your example or "an ambassador of the US", the most evil and ruthless regime in the last centuries, doing something silly as threading with a handgun as an unethical thing in the same timeline the US being the only country that used nukes against its enemy. Clearly you are a good guy, and you are enthusiastic about the topics you like, but it may be a good call to do yourself the same questions you proposed for this fictional political body (the Jedi) to the actual, real life affecting political body that is the government of your country. The empire exists in real life, and it's not precisely branding a death star in the space, my friend.
I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying when I compared the actions of fictional peacekeepers to actual law enforcement. My intent wasn't to say "imagine if law enforcement ACTUALLY behaved like this", but rather to say "remember how you felt when you heard about law enforcement did [insert one of far too many horrible things]? That feeling shouldn't go away just because you think the Jedi are cool". The intent was to anchor the fictional bad practices of the Jedi to the actual bad practices of government to point out that having a lightsaber and a philosophical outlook doesn't makeup for an abusive use of power. Granted, it's been a while since I've watched back through this video, so that point may not have come across as clearly as I intended. However, at no point in making this video was I thinking "golly if only the Jedi behaved like the real life government."
Yes, by walking up to the parents, explaining why their kids might actually harm someone, because they can literally throwing trucks when they get upset, and then when the training is done, let them go and do whatever they want.
I mean democracy is not inherently good and authoritarianism isn’t inherently bad. They can both be used for purposes that are objectively bad, but that doesn’t make them explicitly bad on their own
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
i'd like to rephrase.
are the jedi the good guys? Once upon a time, but not anymore.
That's what the Sith would say.
@@Infamous1892and that is what the Jedi would say😂
@@insufferableanarchist Nonsense. They were always good. Even in the end, they were 100% right about who started the war
@dancingvalkyrie just because you are well intentioned doesn't mean you're 100% right.
No the jedi weren't 100% right and in the past they commit crimes like the sith genocide or the padawans massacre on Taris.
Dealing in absolute take you on the same level as the sith, my dear absolutist.
@@MultiNumenor Except none of that EU crap was ever in the movies
I think one of the biggest issues of the Jedi Order isn't even mentioned here: There major role in escalating the separatist crisis to a galactic-scaled war.
Yes the CIS secretly built up a huge droid army, but there was never any hint of them actually intended of causing war - more so to use their army as weight for their diplomatic demands. Even in Episode 2, when Count Dooku speaks with the separatist council, he never speaks of any war efforts, only their demands to the republic. And it's obvious they need an army to give them diplomatic weight, because even without the clone army, the Republic sill has a lot of local militia and the Jedi Order to enforce their will. The extended lore even explains that General Grievous later had to unify the droid army command structure to be even ready to a galactic-wide conflict. If the CIS really wanted war from the beginning, they would have done this on Geonosis already.
Geonosis wasn't a member of the republic (or at least they declared themself not to be), so no Jedi or any Republic enforcer have any legal rights on their soil. Despite this, Obi-Wan got there and spied around in secret dungeons. Did they have to execute him? No, but again, Dooku gave Obi-Wan a chance to join him. Otherwise, from the CIS point of view, letting him go would risk their plans to be revealed and the Republic raising an army. Later Anakin and Padme showed up, and Anakin straight up killed Geonosians for simply defending their home, which again, they entered as armed, foreign spies.
Even after all this, the Jedi never bothered to contact Count Dooku - which to this point they believed not to be capable of killing innocents as a former Jedi - and simply tried a diplomatic solution. Their reaction is to sent in a strike force and solve this issue with violence. Ladies and Gentlemen, i present to you the "Guardians of Peace". Even if the separatists wanted war it's no excuse for the Jedi to directly go for violence. The Clone Wars haven't even started yet.
This is also why so many - not just separatists - blame the Jedi for this war. And they are right.
The CIS may have not been this innocent victim, but the Jedi never bothered to even *try* to resolve this peacefully.
I wouldnt say the Jedi or the Mandelorians or any faction in star wars is fully good and without flaws. Part of what makes this series interesting. I like when characters use criticising the Jedi to do something bad because those arguments hit harder and are more narritively interesting if they have some merit.
18:23 This lands so well, hell yes
The more I think about the Jedi, the more I sympathize with Luke's disillussion on them. Even if their existence DOES inspire hope on the galaxy, they should probably not have that much power ever again.
I agree. While many/most of the Jedi were good on an individual level, and did good on an individual level, as an organization they had sacrificed their ideals for political convenience. They should have had the ability to intervene in the affairs of the galaxy, but they never should have become enforcers for the Senate.
@@WhereinMedia Ideally, the Jedi post-TRoS should be reworked into an organization separate from the galaxy's politics. A better version of what Luke was working towards.
So I guess the answer is a separation of the church and the state.
@@matti.8465 Honestly, that's a pretty solid analogy. Mace Windu was going to execute the legitimately elected leader of a secular government because Palpatine was the Jedi equivalent of a heretic.
Granted, Palpatine was playing both sides of the war and definitely should have been removed from power, but that doesn't empower the Jedi council to play judge/jury/executioner.
@@WhereinMedia As horrible as the galaxy becoming a police state was, the thought of it being ran by a cult is scarier (and probs why people sided with Palpatine)
Beings who see themselves as superior and have a complete disregard for the regular people should NOT be in power. They are not servants of the people, they only serve their dogma and the supposed "will of the force"
@@matti.8465 Agreed. The Jedi attempt to remove Palpatine from power played right into his hands, and gave him all the reason he needed to declare the new order. From the perspective of the Senators and the general populace, half the galaxy had betrayed them and then the Jedi betrayed them. You bet your boots they would want a strong figurehead for a "safe and secure society".
Lmao at pixelated Jar Jar.
I'm on season 2 of clone wars. Anikin's fall to the dark side is more believable watching the show.
Here's an open question: Is the prophecy explicitly documented anywhere?
It's always bothered me that the Jedi embraced the coming of "the one who will bring balance to the force" when there's hundreds of Jedi vs only a handful of dark side practitioners. Maybe I'm missing something, otherwise balancing the force is a matter of simple arithmetic.
Haha I'm glad somebody else enjoyed that.
In season three there's a whole multi-episode arc dedicated entirely to the prophecy of the chosen one.
The dark side does not cause imbalance, but the Sith do.
The Force sends a Chosen One to destroy the Sith after Darth Plagueis tries to manipulate the Midichlorians to create life. The Force retaliates Plagueis by giving Shmi Skywalker a child from no father.
I don’t fully remember the prophecy’s quote but it mentions an oval building as the core of evil, and with that we assume Jedi are quite dumb.
@@gabrielferracini8859 by balance we mean genocide right? In phantom menace the Jedi clearly state there are 2 sith, master and apprentice. Maul is assumed dead so an entire Jedi council seeks to kill what they believe is the last and ONLY sith in a whole damn galaxy? Not nation, planet, but a whole galaxy. Grevious is not a sith. Dooku is believed to be the master who obtains new apprentices until revenge of the sith where they learn palps is the master. So for the Jedi council they believe balance means eradicating literally all sith despite there only being believed to be 2 in a whole galaxy?
Balance has been reiterated MULTIPLE times as meaning removing corruption in the force, aka the dark side.
@@82Goobers but not in context of the actual franchise. Even since the OT the dark side appears to be naturally occurring. In dagobah there was some dark side cave Luke went into and the dark side is achieved via normal emotions we know Jedi have as shown in the PT like ambition, pride, anger, etc.
I think an interesting question is why are other force sensitive or even non-force sensitive beings NOT tempted by the dark side? Why is the dark side in EP 1-6 only accessible to sith and Jedi?
Perfectly articulated great video from start to finish. Thanks for bringing clarity to this topic.
I would argue that yes they were. They taught and were taught all the right moral lessons and they genuinely were trying to help the galaxy. That said good people can do great evil when mislead. I also do think that while their lessons were correct, their dogmatic approach to teaching those lessons were harmful. It is ok to love and it is ok to have attachments so long as those attachments don’t turn to possession, and so long as you are able to let go of those attachments and accept loss without turning to hatred.
Right moral lessons? You do realize that blind loyalty never did any good for anybody, right?
@@jeremyallen5974What fucking blind loyalty?
And do you get that in Star Wars falling to the Dark Side is a real fucking issue?!
I don't know how good the Jedi are but they're at least better than the mandalorians I don't think the reason that the weekend with the force was because they're closer to the dark side I think it's because they are more closed off from the Galaxy than ever before.. if you look at Legends and Canon the Jedi do some pretty horrible things before the prequel era hey Google start using abilities as a non-standard they don't even have to be dark side abilities per se. I'd save a prequel era Jedi are actually the most moral since they founded the Jedi tradition
Counter point, they're taught this code because an untrained person at any age with force powers is friggin dangerous. Even just knowing telekinesis they can be a massive threat. Also as Ahsoka proves, when they're old enough they can just fuck off and leave.
Where the Jedi the good guys?
From a certain point of view - Anakin
Keep doing my man! love your clips. Enjoy to listen.
Well thank you!
It is striking to ear Obi Wan answering to Anakin : only a sits deals in absolutes, what about Yoda then "do or do not, there is no try" he must be a sith according to them.
Hey who wouldn't want to see clone slave vs droid slave?
Underrated
Never got the notification for this, but thanks man!
7:40 "In their defense they were right." It is not completely right or wrong as the Jedi never truly trusted and even respected Anakin despite everything he did for them. Sure they had a point of Anakin's flaws but I don't think fanning the flame on him was a good idea.
If I choose between the Jedi or Sith order? I would pick the Jedi every time because they stand for peace and justice teaches people how to be responsible for using the force without falling to the dark side sure they are flaw but no knightly order is perfect it just shows that they had more to learn to be better protectors and I can live with that. As for the Sith while I can understand the appeal of the Sith order and there code felt more relatable to normal people but using the dark side isn’t reliable long term. If it was Sith like Darth Marr and Darth Malgus in the old republic yeah I would willing follow them because they actually care for the Sith empire more than themselves but if it Sith like Darth Nihlius,Valkorian,Sidious,and others like them than no. So yeah I choose the Jedi as for lightsaber color for me I want a natural red color lightsaber for my primary lightsaber because I want to redeem the red color lightsaber cause in the end of the day colors are subjective and for my secondary lightsaber will be green for wisdom.
"If I choose between the Jedi or Sith order?"
But they are not the only to factions. The biggest political entities in the Star Wars saga was the Republic and later the CIS. And since most galactic beings are not force-sensitive, it is more likely that you had to choose between them instead of Jedi or Sith. Heck, even within the Jedi-Sith-Conflict there are 3rd parties like Grey or Dark Jedi, or being technically a Jedi but not a pawn of the order, like Qui-Gon - arguably the only true Jedi during the prequel era.
As a Jedi i would simply leave the Order during the Clone Wars and do my own thing.
That is why it is best to master the dark, and the light side of the force.
I would choose the Sith. They have the coolest powers.
@@engelostermann7203 those type of power always have a price in the end.
@@jaieregilmore971🤨
The weird thing about the Jedi's fighting tactics is that they really are the result of giving people with no experience leading troops or combat experience beyond the skirmish level the rank of general and throwing them into mass combat after millenia of peace. The big question is how much of that was deliberate in the movie of just a post hoc interpretation that proved to fit?
Basically the entirety of the clone war was Palpatine reflecting about the weaknesses and flaws of the Jedi order and the Republic and finetuning his plans to exploit them.
Not all the Jedi were 'good guys'. Jedi like ki Adi Mundi, Jorus C'boath, Cypher Diaz, Count Dooku & many others had issues. Arrogance being one of them.
How the fuck do you only have 247 subs? Such amazing videos!
What an awesoke video. The content was convincing, and the humor and edits were on point!
To be fair she had her blaster out ass she approached Obi wan at 6:12
I agree with the Mind Trick thing, I feel like the Sith would be more likely to use it, mostly to cause just random chaos. “You want to blow up that building with these explosives” and then handing them bombs sounds like something Vader would do.
Vader won't really do it unless he encounters extreme scenarios like a hostile individual/group of individuals/nation/planet. As a Sidious-like manager everywhere he works, he needs careful calculations, even in the most precarious situations. Furthermore, Vader's fighting style is literally the reflection of his cautious working style, he dedicates whole-heartedly to defense and only goes for critical strikes when the hostile still expresses violent manner, or else he just disarm them without so much harm like he did to Luke at Cloud City. Luke lost his hand from Vader's attack because he land the death blow first. If not because of Vader's armour, he would have been dead. For a manager, law enforcer, judge, prime minister, that is crucial.
The videos are very nicely edited, I like it!
Thanks Ranvir!
@@WhereinMedia love it when a Star Wars vid comes out. (ill watch others too no worries)
I’ve always had this in the back of my mind watching Star Wars. The Jedi weren’t good guys, they were better guys than the Sith.
Definitely a "lesser of two evils" situation
Rather put up with the Jedi than the Sith any day of the week.
Awesome video! Thanks!
They were fanatics who thought they were doing good...but Lukes approach of a more neutral approach and just trying to do good with action instead of all the rules and fanatisism
Nobody ever the good guy we all the bad guy in somebody book
In the grand scheme of things the Jedi did much good for the galaxy as a whole. They weren't the best _at_ it but they did help with a lot of things. But they had a LOT of issues. They operated a lot like a cult, they were out of the loop with how the rest of the galaxy lived, they often were tunnel-visioned on trying to establish a surface peace rather than fixing the issues that caused the conflict in the first place, and they often took things at face value rather than looking into them further.
There's actually a Megas XLR quote I can paraphrase here that fits quite well. The Jedi weren't the best guys, but they ain't no bad guys either.
While the Jefi have their flaws, the Sith (particularly people like Darth Sidious) are a lot worse as they actively seek power and destruction alongside choosing to commit henious crimes for their sick amusement.
@@tunebeat3809
Never said the Sith weren't bad, no idea why you're bringing that line of discussion up.
Although I would like to bring up Darth Vectivus as being an exception. Darth Vectivus was mostly a scholar of the Dark Side, he didn't really do any of the conquering or murdering or other nasty shit that most Sith do.
I noticed that you have a Warhammer 40k boxset
Also if I may ask, which Chaos God would the Jedi be most susceptible to falling to and why?
Given the Council's horrible treatment of Ahsoka, well, good in theory but bad because of their extreme arrogance.
Obi Wan was actively hunting an assassin that was very much in the process of attempting to assassinate an innocent woman, and who had been a conspiracy that has just blown up a ship and killed multiple individuals that had the particular ability to change the way the individual appeared which meant they could only act as bait, and if they otherwise did nothing they would be morally complicit in other murders the individual caused or the alternative of removing a single limb that could as you pointed out be replaced which is a cost far short of murder given a lightsabers instant cauterization of the wound and also all peace keeping, or in the clone wars era military force was complicit with coercion tactics in many ways including most powerful modern nations, and police forces.
Albeit the process of recruiting children was wrong however an untrained force user was highly likely to accidentally fall to 'the dark side' which in this particular universe appears to be a corruption that the individual down the path is almost an addict with very few who go down the path coming back to the light which makes it a matter of galactic security that to some extent they would still have the need to track and to some extent guide force users away from the corruption of the dark side and though it was wrong to head the clone armies it was the Republic that ordered the adoption and use of the clones which seemed to be a decision that the chancellors emergency powers meant he would have to be the individual who adopted the official deployment of the clone forces.
But the major problem of the jedi is that they separated themselves from the sith while jedi and sith follows the same force. You shouldn't overcome your emotions, you should keep the balance between reason and emotion.
8:38
❎️ simply to get his way
✅️ to save a life
Yeah, the whole clone thing is one of those story lines that you just cannot think about as it makes no sense. Like why does the republic even have to do this? In a whole galaxy of people they cannot raise an army? Are they broke and cannot afford one so need slave labor? Are there laws against a draft or military service in this universe?
Or it's more that they got caught by surprise and didn't have the time to train a semi-competent Army to hold back the CiS droid Army without taking casualties that would make Stalingrad look like a stubbed toe.
It just so happened a Jedi master thought this was stupid and took a bunch of money to Kamino to order a secret clone army.
Too bad Dooku got to him first.
In response to the bounty hunter's arm; in fairness, the woman was armed, had used weaponry before and was ready willing to attack at the time.
Not very far fetched for obi wan to kill her, let alone maim her.
Yes... because The Maker says they are...
The Sith are not misunderstood... the Sith are the bad guys...
George explained it simply... Light Side = Good Guys
Dark Side = Bad Guys
Just because they are the good guys doesn't mean they are perfect and make no mistakes.
But they were still written as the Good Guys in Star Wars 💙
Did the Jedi massacre children and blow up defenseless planets?
They did actually, by orders of the republic a couple of thousand years before the Clone Wars. That's how the eternal conflict between the Jedi and the Sith truly began.
Granted, Korriban wasn't blown to bits per say, but it has been nothing but a lifeless husk ever since and the Jedi/Republic massacre of the Sith people directly led into their inevitable extinction as a race. (Emporer Vitiate putting the final nail in the coffin with his actions on Nathema) Leaving just the cult of darksiders that would go on the share their name and become the Jedi Orders nemesis.
The jedi used clones
No they kidnapped them and force em into something and make them mindless emotionless warriors soldiers that’s why I love cal kestis so much he saw that and destroyed the codex for all children that are/could be force users
You missed the point entirely. Star Wars universe is similar to our own, but there's a crucial difference - THE FORCE, which is the primordial, supreme power and the source of all creation. Jedi following the force consider themselves as followers and executors of its will and what it wants is supposedly for the benefit of all the universe.
In Lucas' world religious orders are justified.
the question still raises quite a lot of fuss about Sith/Jedi teachings. Sith's Rule of Two law is really the freaking OP thing, brutal, treacherous, insidious manner to each other is what makes the Sith so powerful compared to the Jedi. But when Sidious takes over the Galactic Empire, he cannot apply that brutal ideologies to managerial stuff, which needs some tenderness and cleverness, not cruel, malicious iron grip. Also the Rule of Two lineage for governing is such a genius idea from Darth Bane when truly examining it. Sith in this doctrine must be intelligent, smart, battle-hardened, but he/she has to show eagerness when learning whatever knowledge they can get their hands on, either from the Sith master or from external sources. In order to penetrate into the Republic political circles, they have to excel at law, managerial expertise, and they have to be extremely rich to rig the Sith apprentice to replace him and go higher, then repeat the cycle until one becomes a monarch like Palpatine. Yikes
Lovely video
2:44 yes but thats just any soldier
desertion is a crime punishable by prison or death in some cases in our world, so i doubt its a jedi policy. probably more of a rebublic policy
also the jedi don't own the clones, thats the republic
I agree with many of your points but sometimes you the twisted the context like obi wan cutting her hand she had a gun in her hand he did it in self defense and mace windu with teh ziillow beast the beast would have been saved by the republic and they wouldn’t have to kill it
Missed the notification some how.
Another insightful video:) 👍🏻
Never liked the Jedi order or how they handled things.
The mandalorian show : more mandalorians; less jedis. Would love to see live action Boba best a Jedi or two. :)
Oh, I would pay good money to see that.
@@WhereinMedia we did get Ashoka attack din from behind with dual light sabers. Blocked everything. Whip corded arms to her side and had blaster on her for couple seconds b4 she jumped over tree branch. :)
@@WhereinMedia just rewatched: correction: did not have blaster on her But could have. :)
@@andrewfett142 True. Ahsoka's abilities did feel a touch toned-down in The Mandalorian from what she seemed capable of towards the end of Clone Wars, but I think Din could have taken her in that fight if he wasn't trying to get her help. I definitely would like to see some more Mando v Jedi fights, especially if they included some of the jetpack-incorporated fighting techniques we saw Koska Reeves use against the Quarren fishermen.
Dark side much?
Hey that is a really cool jacket.0
Haha thanks!
Keep up the good work. Great video! Love these analyses.
P.S. First.
Thanks man! I'll be honest, I was a bit worried about the response to this video, so it's nice to see a positive response right off the bat.
@@WhereinMedia you’re welcome. Also, if for some reason you are looking for video suggestions I would like to propose that you look at the nature of the light vs. dark side of the force. Like how the Dark side isn’t exactly EVIL(from my point of view anyway) and rather being self centered and non-caring for the well-being of others is the best way of getting the maximum mileage out of the Darkside of the force.
@@benjaminstiles That'd be a pretty good video, thanks for the idea! No guarantees on how soon I'll get to it, but it's definitely going on my list.
@@WhereinMedia 👍
So wait! The Jedi are bad for having the clones but these are the future stormtroopers that were the majority of the Empire. Didn't Palpatine and Darth have them as slaves and yet Palpatine and Darth were never judged for using the stormtroopers as slaves and yet way to many people admire them
Dang! No wonder Dooku turned to Sidious when leaving the Jedi. You may as well show the clips of Dooku turning to the dark as well. Also 19:25 No! Not necessarily! Haven’t you heard of Benjamin Franklin before???
Benjamin Franklin “Democracy is like having2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner!!!”
Exactly. That's why people like Kissinger said in the 70s _"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves"_ before sending the CIA to orchestrate the coup against Allende that lead to his murder and 17 years of murderous dictatorship... Wait... is the US government and its allies actually the villains of our timeline?
I thought you were wil Wheaton for the first bit of this video
This is why i think the armies of the prequels should have be reversed. The Republic should have built droids to counter the separatist clone armies.
Well, then you're lost!
Were the heroes of George's Star Wars "the good guys"?
Yes. Yes they were. And the stormtroopers were the baddies. If were wondering.
Happy to solve this mystery of yours.
I'll throw in a bonus one, the nazis in Schindler's List...they were the baddies.
I know it can be confusing sometimes.
There are hints here and there...like Kenobi sacrificing himself and the Empire blowing up planets. Tiny details that can be overlooked. You really have to have a keen eye and a sharp mind. Also...the Sith be like "I haaaaaate you!!" and "mohahahaha I'm electrifying your kid" while Jedi be like "Peace...and be kind."
Well yeah, duh, of course theyre the bad guys when you look at it through their perspective
Yes
*play credits*
They were the good guys but they also had some problems lol as soon as they were gone the sith made sure everyone suffered. The Jedi prevented that for so long
A gunshot to the knee absolutely CANNOT BE MENDED with current medical technology.
[Arthroplasty has entered the chat]
how bout using young teens in combat like ashoka lol
They were good in the same sense that britain ussr etc were good in WW2. We all know how awful they are when they aren't fighting a genocidal maniac. Or even when they are...
Absolutely not. The Jedi & The Republic are the undeniable and un debatable bad guys of Star Wars: The Clone Wars. That’s why I honestly don’t think that I’ll ever be able to bring myself to watch that again.
We all knew that The Sopranos was about mobsters. We all knew that Walter White was gonna Break Bad. But there’s something really creepy and insidious to me about how Star Wars is portrayed as being family friendly and kid centered entertainment but during all 7 seasons and of SWCW the Separatist are the heroes and the Jedi & Republic are the villains.
It even made me rethink how much I love the original trilogy. Because after watching every season of SWCW I came away from it not seeing re-establishing the Jedi & Republic as a worthwhile endeavor.
And maybe Luke Skywalker would’ve felt the same way if he knew all that we came to know from SWCW 1-7.
Star Wars Andor is still amazing though. And at least there we get to see a conflict where the actual good guys are the protagonist.
So about your point about Star Wars Andor, are you saying that the Galactic Empire are the good guys?
Lmao how did you get this AT ALL? What about the multiple times you see the separatists killing innocents lmao? Are you actually stupid?
6:32 Have you forgotten this is America?
As much as I might try to sometimes, no.
The point I was making there is that we wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) be morally okay with the police maiming people to make their jobs easier. That same morality shouldn't be set aside simply because lightsabers are cool.
Anytime this topic comes up with friends I like to point out that the jedi willfully go around searching for children who have the specific qualities they want, take them from their parents and then indorenate them into their religious cult. the "good guy" doesn't do that. I remember a group in 1939 Germany that did similar things.
I also like to ask people "Who would you rather party with? The jedi or the Sith?".
It seems like a easy choice between jedi and sith
Jedi are bad guys. There is no way to see Sith as good guys, but you can easily see that there are lots and lots of serious problem with the Jedi
I agree with a lot of this video except for the points at the end comparing the Jedi to the likes of Walt and Frank Castle. Those two men did/do what they did/do because at their core they are narcissists looking for excuses to feel good. At least the Jedi want to do good.
Where is the line drawn between doing things for the sake of good and doing things to feel good? Is there a concrete point at which it turns over, or is it largely down to the manner in which these characters are presented to the audience?
I agree that the Jedi began as an organization that was intended to do good, in the same way that Frank Castle and Walter White both set out to do good things (stop criminals and support his family, respectively). And just like with Frank and Walter, somewhere along the line the Jedi lost sight of the point.
It's an old cliche, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions
I always never liked the Jedi as a kid
why did you censor fuckin jar jar
Basically the Jedi do the same things they accuse the Sith of doing.
In some ways, the Jedi are just as bad as the Sith.
Darkness can blind, but so does light.
What police force are you talking about the USA?
As much as I despise the loathsome jedi , sometimes violent coercion is necessary to achieve the desired outcome .
Yes, they were really, really good guys
From my point of view the Jedi are evil
The jedi were good guys that made alot of mistakes.
The jedi saved lives and liberated enslaved planets so yeah they were good guys. TCW attempts to spread the narrative that the jedi are "corrupt" without actually elaborating on anything. The prequel trilogy itself was never meant to spread that narrative as even George Lucas himself has said that the rise of the Empire was entirely Anakin's fault for making bad choices.
Well WHY ELSE would the Force have allowed the Jedi to ultimately lose the Clone Wars, hm?
Between the two the Sith were the only ones who actually kept to their code
@@jeremyallen5974 What are you blabbering about? The force didnt allow anything, it was Anakin's treachery and Palpatine's plan that allowed the Empire to rise
@@dancingvalkyrie He only turned traitor because the Jedi REFUSED to give him anything beyond derision and vague fortune cookie bullshit
@@jeremyallen5974 He turned evil because Palpatine told him he could save Padme. Anakins reasons were always simple minded and shallow
@@dancingvalkyrie He wouldn't have turned if the Jedi Order had actually given him the benefit of the doubt instead of treating him like shit from the moment he stepped into their temple
6:14 you do realize she was about to shoot obi wan so if he hadnt done anything obi wan would have died and she would have gotten away.
There are a multitude of ways to disarm someone that don't involve dismemberment, especially for someone with extra-sensory perception, enhanced reflexes, and telekinesis.
anyone who can fit a argument to their views is not a good person. in star trek voyager tuvok an alien who couldn't lie, cheat and steal did so because of the right point of view and old capt. told him anyone can make the worse seem right with the right view. if it wasn't good for a valcan how does it work for humans and most jedi were humans or humanlike so no bad guys and child kidnappers too.
The Jedi weren’t ok with or sign off on the creation of the clone army also they didn’t jump at the chance to become generals in the army their hands were forced by the senate or be branded traitors to the republic their incompetence as generals doesn’t make them evil it makes them bad generals
The Jedi were only “Good” from a “Certain point of view” as Palpatine just told us as an audience in Episode 3 🤷🏾♂️.
Great break down on this video man , just subscribed now 🔥🔥🔥.
You know who definitely weren't good guys? The Sith.
Yes
Clone wars shouldn’t count, every character was mischaracterized so the order was as well. Also, the Jedi were effectively slaves as well
A good example, mace windu being a hypocrite because he said “we’re peacekeepers not soldiers” and then serving as a general. Why is it hypocritical?
And in the old canon the jedi commited crimes like the sith genocide or the padawans massacre
Yes, they ARE the good guys. Anyone who tries to claim otherwise doesn't know, care or understand Star Wars.
That's why Kreia is my favourite character of all SW medias. That's why the trailer of TLJ gave me hope thay took that road with Luke... and they kinda took it, juste watered it down.
So we all understand that the clones were slaves and the Jedi were fine with that right? Just like they were fine with Anakin's mum staying a slave
The Jedi themselves are victims but the Jedi order is evil
Execute order 66.
Fairly agreeable. Both Jedi and Sith are blinded by their own hubris and inability to act properly at the appropriate time. Improvement on both sides is slow because of the ability to self-correct. At least, to the credit of the Sith, their self-correction was often faster because they had to adapt faster than they could kill each other (speaking of pre-Banite Sith, of course...Korriban) This is not to say that neither was more morally aligned to good and the other to evil, yet though the Sith are aligned with evil and the Jedi to good, evils can and have been committed by both. The Sith revel in it. The Jedi sweep it under the rug or ignore/deny self-righteously. For force-sensitives, it is blind and weak to be dogmatically limited to the teachings of the Jedi, however the exact same can be said of the Sith. Do not only be in the Light (Jedi), for then you are blinded. Do not be seduced and fallen fully to the Dark Side (Sith), destruction of everything for power and then eventually yourself and your power also perish. Both represent a willingness to sacrifice oneself to Force ideology rather than allowing any independence of thought not distorted in extreme or the other by the Force. Be you, and wield rather than control. Let The Force fully immerse you and flow through you, the Light and the Darkness. Fear none of it, but understand what you need not fear before delving in. This is the only way out of the trap. Perhaps no one understood this better than Lord Revan. Well, that and also that there is a difference between a fall and a sacrifice, as well as a great many other things that makes Revan the GOAT in a galaxy full of hollow titles and points-of-view. I would love to see Revan enter the era of the clone wars segwaying into Order 66 and see how he would have handled and responded to all of that. Could Revan have prevented the rise of Darth Sidious and Darth Vader? Fascinating to ponder as a "what-if" scenario.
I would spit out my coffee if Disney brought Darth Nihilus to live action. Not holding my breath, but it would be awesome. They could not make him hellish enough, unfortunately. It would have to be filmed more like an action thriller horror film with extra heavy horror overtones and undertones. Either English speaking or Ancient Sith with subtitles so we can finally peer deeply into the mind of the Lord of Hunger in real time.
accepting both the Light and Dark but staying loyal to what is right is pretty much what Luke's Jedi ideas, embedded by Luke himself, the council masters that are mainly former dark adepts, and Battle Master Kyle Katarn, who pretty much the one set the Jedi ideas and Luke had little debate since he's too experienced for him. I still miss that quote:
"The Force is a tool, Jaden. Sometimes a weapon, sometimes a salve. Dark Side, Light Side, these are distinctions of insignificant difference. Do not fall into the trap of classification. Sentience curses us with a desire to categorize and draw lines, to fear that after this be dragons. But that is an illusion. After all this is not dragons but more knowledge, deeper understanding. Be at peace with that."
@@quangtrungbui675 Nice even down to the finest detail of Luke's caution about the illusion of the dragon. Vader perceived a dragon that he had to crush to be free from the fear of loss and death. If I recall correctly I believe RotS novelization goes into more detail about the dragon because as he is crushing the dragon, he comes out of his anger to realize he had actually just Force choked Padme into unconsciousness. In his succumbing to fear of the dragon, he did the unthinkable even for himself.
@@wyattE415 Yoda's words maybe correct somehow. Fear leads to confusion, confusion leads to mistake, mistake leads to fear, then anger, then hate, then suffering. But Yoda is also the example of how stale the Jedi had become at that time. They dogmatically worship the light. This is quite different in Luke and Katarn' Jedi Order, they both went from everything Yoda fears, but in the end they chose to embrace their feelings, but not sinking into it like the Sith, basically Kakashi but with lightsabers. And from the more natural doctrine, it's much harder to corrupt Jedi.
Yes, they were very flawed but they were still the good guys. I have no idea where this narrative they're not came from, stop trying to put grey element to something that wasn't designed to have one.
The Jedi in the fall of the Republic are bad guys indeed. The ones who don’t see that need to rewatch the prequels.
What they really need to do is take off their nostalgia glasses and actually think about what would be going through Ani's head as the supposed 'wisest beings in the galaxy' spouted out glorified fortune cookie bullshit in response to him telling them that he was struggling
"Slavery, It's bad"
*Christian's* - Uhh well actually
Seriously did no one else have any fun when they went to college
you are not as knowledgeable as you think
Yes, the Jedi are the good guys, you know, those guys fighting against the literal satan of their universe. The sith and disney are the bad guys.
The good ol..."My religion is moral and better than yours" argument.
Down with the Jedi😂
one minute in already self indulging in a fallacious argument.. lol pass
Yes. They were. Saying otherwise means you are wrong. Simple as.
to me Sith and Jedi is just bunch brat who keep on fighting coz they cannot agree how to use the Force.
I like your take on star wars but god I cringed everytime you tried to show the absurdity and the hypocrisy of the morals of this fictional word with what you thought were hyperbolic examples of the real world. Like cops not following "procedure" being something absurd in your example or "an ambassador of the US", the most evil and ruthless regime in the last centuries, doing something silly as threading with a handgun as an unethical thing in the same timeline the US being the only country that used nukes against its enemy.
Clearly you are a good guy, and you are enthusiastic about the topics you like, but it may be a good call to do yourself the same questions you proposed for this fictional political body (the Jedi) to the actual, real life affecting political body that is the government of your country.
The empire exists in real life, and it's not precisely branding a death star in the space, my friend.
I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying when I compared the actions of fictional peacekeepers to actual law enforcement. My intent wasn't to say "imagine if law enforcement ACTUALLY behaved like this", but rather to say "remember how you felt when you heard about law enforcement did [insert one of far too many horrible things]? That feeling shouldn't go away just because you think the Jedi are cool". The intent was to anchor the fictional bad practices of the Jedi to the actual bad practices of government to point out that having a lightsaber and a philosophical outlook doesn't makeup for an abusive use of power.
Granted, it's been a while since I've watched back through this video, so that point may not have come across as clearly as I intended. However, at no point in making this video was I thinking "golly if only the Jedi behaved like the real life government."
Long live the grey order
they also kidnapped force sensitive children to increase their military power, in the other hand becoming a sith apprentice is a choice.
I don't know much about star wars but I do know they don't kidnap them. They tend to have the parents permission.
Yes, by walking up to the parents, explaining why their kids might actually harm someone, because they can literally throwing trucks when they get upset, and then when the training is done, let them go and do whatever they want.
Anakin was like 10 and he was apperantly "too old" for the jedi...
@@denifnaf5874 10 years is enough time to form strong attachments to people. So training someone like that can and did ultimately backfire on them.
Your videos seem really cool, the editing is fine but I think the only issue is the video is too long.
I mean democracy is not inherently good and authoritarianism isn’t inherently bad. They can both be used for purposes that are objectively bad, but that doesn’t make them explicitly bad on their own
How is authoritarianism "isn't inherently evil"?
@@ChaseDaOrk3767 because the leader doesn’t have to be evil? The leader could be extreme benevolent and want the best for all their people.
Where are the younglings parents? Aren't they child soldiers?