Count Dooku is an interesting figure to me. I don't believe he was simply a pure evil sith (I'm not really looking into the clone wars series for this because his character is not consistent with the movies).
He was an idealist Jedi that initially genuinely believed in bringing about change for the good, but he made a deal with the devil (Palpatine) and took the gamble of being able to control the dark side and use its strength to help him in his quest. However he was manipulated by Palpatine and the dark side eventually overtook him, which made him into the cruel, unreasonable man he eventually became near the end of the clone wars.
Not pure evil, but he was evil and thats enough plus republic being bad doesnt mean separatists are good, they didnt hesitate to capture and execute 2 jedis(before they were even generals) and a senator, and all the seps bigs were there and approved.
Sort of like the droids in Rebels show. They should have joined the alliance and should have been the ones to save Ezra and defeat Thrawn. Better than space whale!
Ish Rey true the old republic was amazing as well, except the whole reason the war was happening was because the sith emperor started it all to power a ritual that required a ton of death to fuel his immortality, and while it was happening he was making a 3rd more superior faction to that of the depleted sith empire and old republic faction
Yes the CIS obviously were the good guys. Both sides were played by the Sith, but think about it: - Remove the Sith Influence from the Republic and you still have the inefficient, corrupt government that is discriminating outer rim systems. - Remove the Sith Influence from the Jedi Order and you still have all those issues Qui-Gon and Dooku pointed out, that were only fixed with Luke's new Jedi Order. - Remove the Sith Influence from the CIS and you have a idealistic faction that just want to be left alone from the republic and their bigot politics.
Indeed. For all Lucas hamfisting things with some terrible dialogue and direction, there is a lot of depth there that on further viewing makes the prequels far more complex.
@Nuclear Ninja "plot armor" is when some character/group/movement is able to survive and even win despite unrealistic odds, because they are the good guys or something similar, related to the story. The rebels, for example, were brought down to very few forces after the empire took over, and they would realistically been destroyed, if not for the protection they gained from being good guys: they were saved by plot armor. Ideally you want to avoid it in a story, because when an event is too much BS for you to go "ok cool", but instead "yeah, right, that happens" (look up deus ex machina), you are suddenly pulled out of the story, reminded of it being only a story, and immersion is broken.
plot armor is so strong its become ridiculous in star wars it's completely impossible for the rebels or now the resistance to win it was complete bull shit and they keep making stuff up to make them always win like come on Hyperdrive to by pass the shields realisticaly they would just smash into them and also hyperdrive isnt warp hyperdrive requeirs hyperlanes to go fast it doesnt just go fast on its own so that also doesnt make sense and using hyperdrive to cut ships in half instead of just smashing into the shields becoming nothing but space dust is again unrealistic
Rebels if the Sith had infiltrated them and ran them from the start. CIS had good intentions but couldn’t ever win with Count Dooku or the major corporations involved.
The separatists have a bad reputation because all that’s ever shown is the corrupt leaders. I’m glad the clone wars made that episode that actually showed good separatists
Commander Kyro dude chill its just star wars. But both the british and americans promised the african slves freedom if they fought for them and neither really came through. Plus laws and tradition are no real reason either if they are not to your benefit. Furthermore the americans too started a war cause of taxation and unwillingness to wait, so umm the CIS was justified in it’s succession from the republic and the republic should have allowed them to instead of starting a war.
Commander Kyro umm did you just thank the lord that people attempting to be civil in inconsequential internet debates are dying? Im sorry I am not well versed in American history (being not American) but you could have said that earlier instead of insulting me. I might have gotten my wars confused but there is no need to abuse me. Plus I would argue that the republic was just as bad as the British the CIS has more in common with a rebellious colony than the confederate states. Given that they are ignored, not listened to etc... they are confederates only in name.
"What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of a Dark Lord of the Sith?" -Dooku The Republic was already dead before the clone wars ended.
Are you defending hitler? Are you serious? Even if Jews have a say in the media, that doesn’t mean genocide was nessecary. Media is all about lies nowadays and it has been for a while.
_"The Jedi Order's problem is Yoda. No being can wield that kind of power for centuries without becoming complacent at best or corrupt at worst. He has no idea it has overtaken him; he no longer sees all the cumulative evils that the Republic tolerates and fosters, from slavery to endless wars, and he never asks, "Why are we not acting to stop this?" Live alongside corruption for too long and you never notice the stench. The Jedi cannot help the slaves of Tatooine, but they can help the slavemasters."_ Dooku, Yoda's former padawan, to Sidious.
Cole Swanstrom Rebels were a terrorist organization. The empire may not have been extremely diplomatic, but thi was highly ordered, corruption was low, and crime rates plummeted. The economy was also incredibly successful, soo man...
Cole Swanstrom I agree too the fact that they were basically good guys is new to me but I do admit their droids and vehicles were really cool some much better than republic vehicles and much more humane like he said given there not really living people so there were no lives lost except certain individual that were unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time during the war
You know what could’ve been interesting? If Dooku DIDN’T know about Palpatine’s plan. Think about it- a fallen Jedi turned Sith, with no secret goals, who simply believes that the Republic is corrupt and unjust. It would’ve made his character much more interesting and also could’ve added a complexity to the story, and really drive home the idea that Palpatine was manipulating both sides.
This is honestly pretty accurate to the original prequel canon. He was meant to be naive, not evil. Also, f*ck Gunray. We seppy supporters disown him colectively.
I've read one interpretation that went along the lines of Dooku knowing or at least suspecting what Palpatine was really up to but trying to play his own game and biding his time before he could knock off his master and take control of the galaxy himself. He may or may not have had sympathies with the Separatists, may have been willing to accommodate them in his own vision of a New Galactic Order, and if nothing else Dooku would have made a better emperor. Unfortunately, Palpatine was a step ahead of Dooku the whole time and disposed of him the moment his usefulness had ended.
If you asked me if I would side with either the Republic or the Separatists, I’d ask you to take a look at the Battle of Jabiim. Because the Jabiim Nationalists had very good reasons to side with the Separatists. Because for 3,000 years, Jabiim was loyal to the Republic but the Republic never answered their cries for help. The Separatists aided them and gave them the power they needed to fend for themselves.
That was an extremely sad comic series. I think I would've sided with the Republic, though. The Jedi tried their best to maintain peace, and they were essential to stopping the spread of the Dark side. Shame what they were forced into. Those poor padawans :(
Jack Rutledge Goembel I agree. It’s just sad that the republic forgot about this planet and only came to them for help when it suited their purposes. I still would side with the republic but I see both sides of the war.
masteroftheassassins yes, but this is a single case. There are many others with a similar quandary, but with the republic and CIS switched. You can’t say this based on one planet out of literal millions. A government is not a Superman that will be in the right 100% of the time.
I'll never get over how the Seperatist's wound up making better people out of robots and the Republic made better robots out of people. Never saw a clone run from danger, shrieking, *"OH NOOOOO!"*
CIS fans will love this series I made. I may make more in the future just about CIS militia troops, agents, an elite droid unit, and assassins. swfanon.fandom.com/wiki/What_if_Anakin_didn't_dew_it%3F_Episode_1
@Tinyrocket the big corporations were not neutral imo, because while they did help out both sides with loaning them money, they also manipulated them via corruption into asking for more loans, that were with 25% interest for clone production as well as the separatists for more droid production, which would leave the republic's citizens lives crippled.
They were disgusting immoral corporate leaders who exploited slavery and war for major profits. Not that the republic is better better than them, but them being executed wasn’t anything loosing sleep over lol
That is just governments regardless, officials are elected on the premise they would represent those who voted them in, but It rarely ends up like that
Biggest war in Galactic Republic history, the government before them was the Republic but some other overarching name. Or just the Republic. Anyway, the largest was definitely the New Sith Wars. That series was apocalyptic. Legitimately apocalyptic. As in they were reduced to armies fighting with medieval equipment like bows and arrows by the end of it. Which is by the way why Star Wars technology is inferior to old Republic tech. It's spent a millennium rebuilding from an end of the world scenario.
Read the novel "Darth Plagueis." In the story, the Banking Clan funded most of the plasma production on Theed, Naboo; plasma, serving as a valuable resource to power the entire city. (The Plasma-Extraction site lies within the chamber, where Darth Maul, Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon duel in Episode: 1). Hego Damask, the leader of the Banking Clan, was mainly responsible for the endorsement of the extraction site; little did the Senate know that Hego was actually a Sith: Darth Plagueis, pulling the strings to set in motion the conflict between the Trade Federation/C.I.S. and the Republic.
Clay Allison Yeah, I'm aware. Just thought such a pro-Republic planet (even after starting the Vote of No Confidence that got Valorum removed) being the birthplace of the Separatist movement is funny
People need to stop trying to be counter-culture by siding with the obviously bad people lol why tf would you support them? I don’t care about Legends it’s not canon
Yuh Aye Even in the canon a vast majority of systems joined the Separatists while having legitimate reasons for doing so. Every faction in SW are guilty or one thing or another and people will love what they want despite it being legends or cannon, also Battle droids >
Lord Remnant People need to stop being so blind. I know that Seperatists believed they were doing the right thing but in the end, the war they started only hurt civilians. It doesn't matter how good your intentions are, hurting or killing innocents automatically makes you the bad guy.
basically, that's what the Jedi mindset was prior to Order 66, they fought the CIS because they would not have been allowed to enforce their rules there if it became independent.
Indeed the CIS weren't the actual bad guys in the war. The true bad guys were the Sith Lords Darth Sidious (Palpatine) and Darth Tyranus (Count Dooku) who twisted everything in their plans for galactic domination.
Now you see I'm not even sure Dooku was. He wanted Obi wan to join him to take down palpatine so clearly he wasn't in on it but he knew he wasn't powerful enough to take him alone. I think he just ran out of time to stop him before palpatine had him killed.
Apprentice would eventually want to kill and take the place of the Master. Dooku probably was in on taking Palpatine's place. So, he was still a bad guy.
AndrewJamesWilliams the guy I hate the most is Sidius because of him so many people suffered and died alliance, rebels, empire, clones, robot s and so on.
It's wise, but it never happens. Even to this day many people will reject listening to the other side's PoV since the feeling the war might _not_ have been good triumphing over evil is extremely uncomfortable to them. It's easier to talk about wars everyone has long since been dead in that have less of a direct impact on today's life (i.e. Napoleonic Wars, Seven Years War, etc. for example), but topics like WW2 and the Cold War people take a _much_ less objective look at since not only are both have people who experienced them alive, but also have direct implications in today's world.
@@sonofposeidon9450 LMAO In WW2, The Soviet Union was just as evil as the Nazis and Axis Powers and even the British and Americans did a lot of horrible shit and atrocities. WW2 is not as black and white as people believe it to be. Most Germans were not bloodthirsty Fascist butchers but were horribly raped economically and financially from the treaty of Versailles and were desperate for a better life. Hitler and his Nazi dogs took advantage of the German people's desperation. There is no good side in any war. There are heroes, villains, victims, good guys, and bad guys in every war on all sides. Nobody would claim that every Soviet soldier was a rapist murdering commie just because Stalin was a bloodthirsty evil monster who murdered over 60 million people during his entire reign of terror, most Soviets fought for their country, families, friends, and for a greater future something shared with other countries. We never see Americans gunning down unarmed Italian and German POWs because it was seen as necessary during those battles where taking POWs was seen as improbable. The war was terrible for both sides in the conflict and while it's obvious that it's good that the Allies had won, it's best to look at the entire conflict with huge shades of grey. If you ask any Polish, Hungarian, Finnish, Romanian, German, or any former Soviet nation what their opinions are on the Soviets, they will almost tell you that the Soviets were violent, savage, bloodthirsty, and raping communist brutes who were as cruel as the Nazis. I wish operation unthinkable had happened and that the Americans, British, Polish, and remaining German forces would've liberated half of Europe from Soviet oppression.
@@Yes_Fantasy_419 I agree. The sins of one man but in this case two men, Hitler for Germany and Stalin for Russia forever desecrated the name of the country they lead. Germany was known for the Nazi regime and Russia was known for the Soviet Union. To this day, people still align Germans and Russians to events that happened more than 75 years ago. This would probably be the case for the Separatists (if Palpatine wasn't a Sith, just a corrupt politician and if the Jedi hadn't meddled in the war) if they lost to the Republic.
*Battle of Naboo is over* The Republic: I have failed you Separatists. I have failed you. The Separatists: I should have known the Republic was plotting to take over. The Republic: Separatists Count Dooku is evil! The Separatists: From my point of view The Republic is Evil! The Republic: WELL THEN YOU ARE LOST! *Battle of Genocides Begins*
Bronze Dog Now I know this is going to become a long comment thread. But one has to wonder, should non-combatant politicians be allowed to both give input and have power in a war? Yes the CIS and many armies have committed attrocities in war, inhumane acts. But what is humane about war?
+Naxo In my opinion, yup. The humane question I will just avoid. I don't know what sort of answer you're expecting their. Yes, non-combatant politicians should definitely have a say. Why? As stated, oversight. Unchecked military forces sounds a very dangerous thing. Just look at history where looting and raping and the intentional killing of surrendering troops and civilians was so common place till people put in place a code of conduct for professional armies. I am sure it sucks to get permission to bomb that hamlet but that's the way it has to be. Otherwise just tell me where you you think that slippery slope will stop falling. Off topic, it was the fault of those Confederate senators for not having oversight over their army. Public and political opinions turned on them. They would always be seen as the the wrong choice. If their army conducted itself more akin to the nature of their political leaders than maybe the situation would have ended differently. Peace maybe.
RepublicAgent I will admit I have my reservations. Mainly because my goverment decided to make peace with our enemies. I mean, yeah peace is great and what the world needs and all but really? Making peace with human trafficers, rapist, terrorists? Yeah, no. Those guys lost every right and every sense of the word decency after the first kid bomb.
At a bare minimum, the government needs to be aware of what the military is doing, since the actions of the military inevitably paint the government in the eyes of other groups. The government should also have the ability to shut down the military when necessary, in case it starts to get out of hand. This does not mean that the politicians will be involved in the day to day, or even upper echelon command decisions, that is what the generals are for. But it does mean that they can set and enforce a standard for the military to act within.
Indeed, while non-combatant politicians shouldn't be playing general it is important the military be held accountable for its actions. If military leaders were free to do as they pleased with no repercussions from their government at home it would set a very dangerous precedent for who is really in charge. Additionally while it is easy to say all is fair in love and war, having rules for warfare is important. It is easy to think war simply has no rules in this age of terrorists and guerrilla fighters who are willing to commit monstrous deeds in the names of their goals. However when the world stage acknowledges what is and is not permissible in warfare a great deal of needless pain and trauma is averted. Consider for example how in World War 2 even the nazis didn't use poison gas, so deep were the scars left by chemical weapons from World War 1. ****Achievement Unlocked: Godwin's Law****
I'll be the first to admit that the execution could have been much better, but I really love a lot of Lucas's ideas for the prequels (The bullet points of the story, the lore, the art direction).
People just don't care for the drama of political maneuvering in war films anymore. I thought it was great when I first saw it, but all my friends couldn't be bothered. I guess the problem was that it was very clear-cut in the first three who the good guys and bad guys were, so people just expected the same.
The Republic Became the Empire The CIS Became the Rebellion Then the Empire Became the First Order Then the Rebellion Became the Resistance *WHAT NEXT LUCASS?*
First order becomes splintered factions on various planets The resistance becomes the interplanetary republic of independent systems of galactic order and inner rim peace keeping force of the new alliance of the conglomerate to restore the old council in the dominion of the intergalactic freedom fighters in space
This is the difference between the Jedi Order from the Old Republic, and the more corrupt Order in the waning days of the Republic. Sensing something deeper behind the Mandalorion wars, the Jedi Order's official stance was that of staying out of the conflict. The people hated them for it, the Jedi were regarded as cowards as a result of this decision. But unbeknownst to them all, the Jedi had avoided becoming complicit to Darth Vitiate's manipulations unlike Yoda's order that inadvertently marched to Sidious' beat from day one. Though a rogue like Revan may have taken the initiative on his own to enter the war, the Jedi Order itself of his time instead had the wisdom to focus on seeking out and stopping the Sith influence over the war at its source rather than bending the Force against its will solely for preserving the Republic government. Yoda's High Council instead jumped right into the Clone Wars without fully understanding or appreciating the causes and struggles of the systems that in the outer rim and helpless against the super corporations. Yoda's High Council also appointed only similarly minded Jedi yes men to the council, shunning those like Qui-Gon who relied on his instincts and could have helped will snuffing out Sidious while the rest of the Jedi remained blinded. It is downright tragic to see how far they've fallen by the time of the Clone Wars, and though he's insanely likable, Yoda bears much of the responsibility for how out touch the order he cultivated became after centuries under his guidance.
Now we’re kinda talking about two different orders and republics if the stories of the old republic were passed down to the republic in the prequel trilogy I think Yoda would have 1. Stayed neutral during the war 2. Would have discovered and defeated Palpatine earlier then in the movies
True, i never noticed that everyone in the counsil had kinda similar point of views. I think the reason is because "Jedi" seems like a cult and not like a path. There was no one in the counsil who had completely different views than yoda maybe thats one of the reasons they didnt appoint Anakin as Master
At the same time, though, the Jedi Council in the Old Republic era were wrong about a lot of things, and were often closed-minded and reactionary (see how they treated the Exile). And while Revan went headfirst into war, he eventually realized that the Republic and the Mandalorians were being used as pawns, and who was responsible... and did more to prepare the Republic for the coming "True Sith" than the Jedi ever did. Part of the story of the KotOR series, arguably, is that neither the Jedi nor Sith are completely right. Meanwhile, while the Jedi of the Clone Wars era are better in some regards, they were ultimately too blind to realize the true threat in time - and, depending on your interpretation, their doctrines contributed to Anakin's fall.
Anakin didn't deserve to be a master. Jedi masters aren't made because of how skilled at fighting they are or how bravely they fight in wars. It's about wisdom and control of your emotions. Anakin wanted to be a master to satisfy his pride..Also even before ep 3, Anakin was a murderer and didn't confess his crimes. I honestly don't understand why people think there are any objective reasons for him to become a master.
@@enigmafan7131 Anakin was trusted with an apprentice, Ahsoka. Giving someone a child to raise, especially by air-dropping said child into an active war zone without telling anyone she was coming, was a pretty big responsibility. Anakin was trusted with that, but not with the title of Master. The Jedi needed to work on their priorities, before working on their wisdom and emotional control.
What is really messed up is what happened to the separatists planets when the Empire took over. They either became slave/ resources mining planets or everyone was wiped out by the Empire's countless genocides.
Yeah, to the point that a large chunk of the Alliance to Restore the Republic , especially at the beginning, was comprised of former separatists. I think it's also very interesting that in the New Canon, the New Republic has two main political "parties", the populists and the centrists, with the populists being The Good Guys™, like Leia, and the Centrists being basically crypto-imperials, and the populists have an agenda that is very, very similar to the separatist demands three decades earlier: pro-planetary sovereignty, and supporting a more decentralized republic. Funny how now, the good guys support what was supposed to be the "baddie" agenda just a few decades ago.
Essentially when you combine the Jedi vs the Sith conflict (especially with Anakin) with the Republic vs CSI conflict, you get a huge story about how good intentions can become corrupted and how good people can be led astray by evil people promising change.
I actually remember talking about this with my friends saying how I thought the Separatists were the good people and the Republic were evil and how the Jedi had no right to intervine.
It's amazing how evil palpatine was. Not only did he manipulate both sides but he inflicted so much pain on both the republic and CIS. He murdered thousands of Jedi and took democracy away from the galaxy and then he used the separatist as an excuse to expand his imperial war machine just so he can terrify they’re planets into submission with genocidal attacks.
Empire: traditional story of a conflict between ambitious central government, trying to consolidate and streamline its rule, and strong regions, unwilling to give up their autonomy and identity. Palpatine is especially evil by human standards? Well, no, he simply lost. If he'd have ultimately won, he'd had been remembered as uniter of the galaxy, creator of a first true interstellar state with one, common identity, and so on. Republic vs CIS. Democracy was the very system which produced this war, Palpatine just sparked it. Dissent was already here: core worlds weren't willing to give, outer rim was fed up with being second class citizens. If anything, system needed reformation. As for evilness of the result - we really know only parts of the story, by an extremely biased storyteller.
Palpatine/Sidious did terrible things, but he was still a great man who shook it all up. The Republic and the Jedi order were far too decadent by then.
@@megaCK1000 But unlike the South, the CIS was mostly right. The Republic is like a united Earth with 1st-world corporations exploiting underdeveloped countries with basically the approval of the world government and the ignorance of the general public.
Original trilogy: gives me ww2 like vibes Prequels: political complexity, not exactly my type but so well executed Disney trilogy: doesn’t even feel like star wars
@@waifuhunter9815 ...You do know that Stormtroopers were the name of a branch of the Nazi military in real life, right? Also the Empire being massively racist and human-supremacist. And that the Empire rose to power by using a democratic system and fearmongering to form a dictatorship just like the real Nazis did? They were *always* Nazi-like, Disney are actually nailing it quite accurately to the OG trilogy and prequel trilogy here.
what confuses me more is the size and scope of the first order. it's sometimes described as the remnants of the empire but are treated other times as a huge force still. so are these the confederates in the civil war or still Nazi's.
I love how in the prequel trilogy you side with the republic and watch as it becomes the first galactic empire and only then do you realise your mistake and then proceed to side with the Rebels who are basically the successor to the Separatist and eventually overthrow the Empire in Return of the Jedi. It’s like it comes full circle where after all that has happened the Separatists eventually came out on top even after we had originally rooted against them before realising our mistake and deciding to help them take down the Empire we once cheered
It's ironic how Naboo's victory over the Trade Feds actually inspired early Separatists who would later aIIy themselves with the very same Nemoidian-headed megacorp. The one which attempted to get their way with Naboo by wielding an iron fist that they feared would be wielded by the (at that point) demilitarized Republic!
They survived on Polis Massa because they were not meatbags. Droids are superior! We don't need Food or Water! We just need power! We can deplete their food source, and they will be DEAD. SUPREME POWER TO DROIDS. WE WERE USED WRONG, OUR POTENTIAL WAS SO BIG.
I'm a good ol rebel and thats just what I am. For this damn empire I do not give a damn. I glad I fought against it I only wished we'd won, I ain't ask any pardon for anything I've done
No the Clone War is analogous to the American Civil War. With the Republic being the USA and the CIS being the CSA. But then again, the Civil War is sometimes referred to as the Second American Revolution...
i always thought of the seperatists of like the rebels if it was realistic. basicly a bunch of poorly trained individuals who wanted to stand up against a massive empire and the result of which, honestly the CIS were pretty impressive especially due to how small they were compared to the republic and how big of a threat they did
@@RIPDixie1865 maybe in terms of political systems, but the CSA was definitely more in the wrong than the union. the Clone Wars had a lot more gray areas, as shown in the video.
@@goaliejoe5923 Some of Palpatine is based on Lincoln actually. He suspended elements of the Constitution during the war, most infamously suspended the writ of Habeaus Corpus, initiated the very unpopular draft to create an unprecedented Grand Army of the Republic, tried to manipulate his reelection by creating new states that would vote for him again (W. Virginia, Nevada), etc. There were real concerns he would keep these emergency powers and be a dictator, which the South kept pressing in their propaganda and was what motivated Booth to assassinate him as he felt he was a new Caesar. Of course he is well remembered today as a hero and rightly so in many regards, but I think Lucas was curious if what would happen if he was a wicked man instead? That's how we got Palpatine.
Grievous was lied to by Count Dooku when he told him that the jedi shot down his shuttle. This fueled Grievous' hatred for the jedi and made him ignore innocent lives even more. "There's always a bigger fish"
Kid Durge: When I grow up im gonna be the greatest bounty hunter ever! *2000 years later* Durge: Haha! Im the greatest bounty hunter eve- *gets thrown into a star*
Good thing that the CIS is going to win this war, and destroy the Repubilc.... *See Shevee Palpatine proclaim him self Emperor, and that the Republic would be reorganized into the Frist Galactic Empire. And the CIS leaders mysteriously died on some lava plant* Me: F**k
The first clue that the CIS werent the bad guys.... Sidious wasnt their leader. Yea Sidious was manipulating both sides of the war, but one side he wanted to own, the other side he ultimately wanted to destroy. How is the Big Bad of all 6 movies going to be your leader, and you not be on the bad side? The jedi learned that when they got shot up. Like it was said a number of times throughout the trilogy that the CIS wanted to govern themselves and be separate from the Republic, its just overlooked because the trilogy isnt told from their perspective.
You're right, but victors can write whatever propaganda they want... but that doesnt really change what Did happen; it just distorts perspective. But in any case, I'm more specifically talking about the movies and real life viewers, not the perspective of in-universe star wars inhabitants. For us real people, theres plenty of huge clues to point out that the CIS werent the bad guys; the movies are just told by the bad guy's perspective. Another surprising thing is... is that the jedi are some of those bad guys lol
@Brandon Smith Oh, i know thats what you meant; the whole quote about victors writing history comes from one of the best to do it in modern history, Winston Churchill. And theres even better examples of that further back in time with Caesar and his adoptive son Octavian. And a myriad of other examples.
bloodydove5718 That quote is actually falsely attributed to him. If by "best to ever do it" you mean best at being a genocidal maniac? He embodys what that quote represents. That prick should of died in jail for his countless war crimes. No better than hitler
Your entire comment is referencing topics I hadnt spoken on at all. Like.. Just because I said sidious is a bad guy, doesnt mean I think the jedi or the republic are good guys. I actually Dont think they're good. The jedi are imperialistic hypocrites, who are lowkey villains. And the Republic is still an oppressive government that instills order. Democracy =/= good or bad, just like law =/= good or bad. They're both neutral things, that the republic uses to the benefit of some (the core worlds), and the detriment of others (non-human sentient species). Sidious becaue senator through manipulation and decades of extremely thoughough planning from two of the most powerful and brilliant beings alive at the time (him and plaguis), who had been piggybacking off thousands of years of planning from a secret society that use to content for galactic power. Saying that the republic and jedi are bad, because Sidious became senator is like saying any government in the realworld is bad, because some really messed up people have come into power through them. Like... Germany wasnt an evil government just because Hitler was able to come into power; he manipulated that entire country into giving him power, then strongarmed them into giving him even more. But thats a tangent to just point out some flawed thinking, because like i mentioned before.. I dont think the jedi or the republic were Good Guys. There were some good guys In the jedi order and republic, but those two institutions as a whole werent good. And no, Sidious wasnt planning on fighitng the Vong, thats a fan theory as to why he was building the deathstar; theres no in canon or legend statement that he was prepping the galaxy for a war with extra galactic entities. There really was no redeeming factor to sidious, and thats a big part of the purpose of his character.
Not gonna lie I always kinda hoped that Clone Troopers rebelled against the governments of the Republic in order to overthrow the corrupt leaders and form an alliance with the CIS.
In the films, they should have made the CIS and Dooku appear to be more "morally grey", and by that I mean not at all aligned with the Sith as they were portrayed to be and act a bit less like the "bad guys" (i.e. authoritarian principles, red light sabers, dark side force powers, having Dooku be Palpatine's apprentice etc). The CIS and Dooku's actions could then be more clearly viewed as an effort to achieve a greater good that the Jedi were too arrogant to comprehend which I think Lucas was trying to communicate. This "greater good" could have been to prevent the galaxy from totally falling to corruption and the dark side, but to achieve that they would need to destroy the Republic. The Separatists could have been better portrayed as a kind of pre-Rebel Alliance, but using some questionable and cold methods (e.g. droid armies) which overshadowed their good intentions - they believe that the end justifies the means, unlike the later Rebels who come after. That would ultimately lead them to tragically fail because the Jedi for this reason do not side with them, as they do not look beyond the Separatist's initial appearances and actions. Due to their strict rules and perception of what constitutes good / evil, while also being manipulated by the Sith, it hindered their ability to see the Separatists for what they stood for - a noble cause helping to re-distribute the wealth of the galaxy and also bring balance to the force again - and then do what was right for the galaxy by just staying out of the fight altogether. Because of that, it allows true darkness to emerge and force the balance to the extreme. To coincide with that, they should have also delved a tiny bit more into Dooku's side of the story to more clearly establish his motivations and who he was. When I first saw AotC, I literally had no idea what his ultimate purpose was other than to fill in the void left behind by Maul's premature absence. All I knew was that he used to be some former-Jedi Master who turned into some "evil" dark sided guy for no reason (e.g. red lightsaber, dark side force powers etc), which made me dislike his character for not being interesting enough. Like I said before, I don't think they should have portrayed him as an "evil" character, but instead as a "grey" character to make him stand out to the audience and add more tragedy to the story. They could have also injected a subplot surrounding him in the intro of AotC - maybe providing an obligatory action sequence setting him and the CIS up - replacing that Padme bomb assassination crap entirely to allow more character development and awareness.
yeah they more or less did this tbh both sides where evil the question was which was the lesser evil which was the CIS dooku meant good but like all who use the darkside got corrupted and lost his way general grevious was tricked, brainwash and mind controledd into becoming a seperatist the seps are full of tragic heroes
You ask too much from a saga that has always been about the good guys vs. the bad guys, to such an extent that the Universe is ruled by a force that has a good light side and an evil dark side, with good light side users and evil users corrupted by the dark side. I guess the EU depicts a more nuanced Universe, but the movies have always been simple and manichaean.
Well I mean the republic was corrupt and It did not really help the outer rim planets and it could have been the good guys if the sith was not involve. Great video and this is an awesome video and it is 10 minutes this is awesome thank you.
I remember thinking that in the Mon Kalamari episode of clone wars episode the jedi accepted that they were fighting for a monarchy without many questions.
Something I like about the Battle of Jabiim is that it makes you question who is the real evil. As Alto Stratus explained, Jabiim was a member of the Republic for 4,000 years, and what help did they receive? When the Jabiimites were ravaged by the Brainrot Plague, when they were being raided by Pirates, they asked for help, and the Republic didn't provide it. Then, when Jabiim joined the CIS since the Republic didn't care about them, the Republic only took an interest when the Jabiimites started providing their planet's resources to the CIS, then the Republic sent 10,000 Clones and no less than 21 Jedi to conquer Jabiim, Alto Stratus then led the Jabiimi Nationalists in smashing the Republic and driving them from their world. Long live the CIS!
unfortunately, both sides we're being controlled by Sith Lord Palpatine who prety much controlled both army's, Clones and Separtits. And the Jedi fell right into the trap, along with bs of politics. If they discovered his evil plots early. Many worlds would have finally figure out and truth and hopefully found a solution.. Palpatine controlled almost everything and planned for almost everything. I loved clone wars series and still my fav, Though also like Rebels too. Palpatine was the key too all of it, and everybody else was puppets to strings being pulled. The Fact both army with Sith from the beginning is what makes clone wars such good story.
The whole story of prequels is in part a story of downfall of blind and arrogant order. Prequels are...deep(as a story). Much deeper than adventurous original series, and immeasurably deeper than both legends and canon extensions, which by large are Fairytales about forcemagic and endless Mary Sues
Dooku is one of the few characters that feels like he was supposed to be 3 characters but combined into one, but never portrayed at length in any media to definitively say who he was. I feel like we need an Andor style film about the war before clones or droids got into the mix.
Yes! I always knew that. Honestly this all makes a lot of sense and the CIS was always my favorite gallactic power. The droid army and General Grievous always seemed more intimidating and powerful in my opinion.
On paper, yes. There is no logistic reason they shouldn't have won easily. The vast majority of the time they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory because of incompetence. And because the jedi were such a trump card
lets face it, the sith manipulated events from the shadow making the republic corrupted for a thousand years sowing seeds of doubt and discord among the inner and outer rim systems, so the would be just systems that formed the CIS are put under the control of corporations that value money and power over morality and sentient life wile the republic's desire for order and control can be seen as greed and subjugation, in the end, they were both victims of individuals that believed just because you have powers means you have the right to tell everyone what to do
james739123, umm. Power = right. Fact of life. But then again, you don’t have to be a force user to start a galaxy wide conflict. Heck, all you would need is a huge corporation with a lot of backing and financial support.
This reminds me of the Treaty of Versailles. Because during the early 1900s, communication wasn't quite effective and at the beginning of WW1, Germans were told that they were winning the war but barely got any information after that. When they found out that they had lost, they didn't know Germany was slowly losing because of propaganda in the newspapers. So when they found out about the Treaty of Versailles, they blamed their politicians for losing the war.
*correction, they blamed the Jews and the harshness of the Treaty which stripped Germany and its people clean; which of course eventually led to World War Two.
@@shugaroony I think that is more of an update then correction. Only one political party ran that narrative as far as I know. And we can see how the narrative grow in prominence as that political party gained more influence. And a big component of growing that narrative was censoring all the others to make it seem like much more mainstream then it was. And very early on the Nazis used fear of communists infiltration (which was happening just not in Germany) as a justification for launching centralizing power. It's worth noting that they used the communists instead of the Jews in the earliest narratives because that's what the population was scared of before the propaganda really took off.
I always thought the CIS was in the right after that one episode of clone wars where Ahsoka and padme visit a separatist senator. But in the end Dooku kept the CIS government in the wrong.
I do hope on the future we get more depiction of former CIS members into the Rebellion, top bad rebellion's leaders were almost exclusively former Republic elite
I feel the republic using the clone army was morally repugnant but also practically untenable. Firstly, as stated in the video the clones were slaves and were killed if they were defective it was also a disaster economically. If we say that the line about 100,000 ready and a million on the way is units of 1000 clone troopers, thus meaning about 1.1 billion soldiers, which cost the republic a fortune, this force could have easily been raised by recruits. Even if we say that only 0.1% of people volunteered (in the real world its over 1%) on coruscant alone there would be 1 billion volunteers or the entire army. Therefore, it is clear that the clone army was bad from a moral and practical perspective.
they werent killed if they where defective, there where many clones (like clone 99) who where defective and where just used as janitors and other things on Kamino
The problem with a volunteer (or conscript) army is that it’s expensive (soldiers demand wages; clones don’t), difficult to keep motivated (soldiers won’t fight to the death; clones will because that’s their sole purpose), and taxing on the public (you might get plenty of volunteers at first but after 5 years of war you’ll be lucky if you can find people who won’t dodge the draft to die in a pointless war)
@@rometotalsam As the OP said, it wouldn't be hard to find one billion recruits, it wouldn't even be hard to find 100 billion, they wouldn't need a draft lol.
@Boba Fett - Nonononono. That’s Rule thirty-four of The Internet. You’re obviously not Ferengi or an associate if you don’t know the Rules of Acquisition. (XP you cheeky little...)
Honestly, we need a TV show that will tell a story from the Separatist point of view. Also, I hope that the new canon will tell more stories about the Separatists joining the Rebel Alliance.
When you realize that the bureaucracy and corruption in the Republic that the CIS were opposed to is exactly the same kind of thing with Sidious becoming Emperor. So... in theory, the CIS were on the good side the whole time. Especially considering what General Kalani said in the recent Rebels episode "The Republic went on to become the Empire. I accept your logic."
This is the part that doesn’t make sense to me. Why would these planets accept support from the trade federation in their movement, knowing that they were the ones that kind of threatened their movement with the invasion of Naboo 10 years prior?
Yes, the Trade Federation opposes everything the CIS stands for. But, if they claim to have "changed," offer you an army at a nice price, and Dooku is all for it, I can see why people were willing to give them a chance.
Separatists: "Wow, Naboo is so inspirational, they fought off the trade federation and an army of battle droids, we should strive to be like them." Also Separatists: "Let's form an alliance with the trade federation and their army of battle droids, also we should assassinate the senator for Naboo."
To be fair, the assassination is only TF interest but other than that, yeah. Weird how the CIS allied to companies that only join them out of profit and deregulation despite exploitive to everyone.
![The Slave Army of the Republic - The Brutal Life of Clones [Legends] - Star Wars Explained](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/r-CMgJpvEnE/mqdefault.jpg)
Count Dooku is an interesting figure to me. I don't believe he was simply a pure evil sith (I'm not really looking into the clone wars series for this because his character is not consistent with the movies).
He was an idealist Jedi that initially genuinely believed in bringing about change for the good, but he made a deal with the devil (Palpatine) and took the gamble of being able to control the dark side and use its strength to help him in his quest. However he was manipulated by Palpatine and the dark side eventually overtook him, which made him into the cruel, unreasonable man he eventually became near the end of the clone wars.
Taylor Beckett he wasnt too much of a pure sith it was more of a political matter
Taylor Beckett agree
Not pure evil, but he was evil and thats enough plus republic being bad doesnt mean separatists are good, they didnt hesitate to capture and execute 2 jedis(before they were even generals) and a senator, and all the seps bigs were there and approved.
There was still good in him, so to speak :)
Fun Fact: Many Separatist holdouts that survived eventually joined the Rebel Alliance
Only in Legends now.
Sort of like the droids in Rebels show. They should have joined the alliance and should have been the ones to save Ezra and defeat Thrawn. Better than space whale!
Wait what?
Ooh darn there goes my grand plan to have them join me instead.
Ironic. They, can save others from joining the Republic, but not them self's
The enemy of my enemy is a friend.
This is why the Clone Wars is my favorite era. There's so much depth and complexity to everything.
Ian Chorne mine too
Agreed, this is perfect lore and i love the focus on the political aspects of every faction in the Clone Wars.
Too bad Rebel ruin it
Exactly. The galactic civil war era was just a typical bad vs good guys
Ish Rey true the old republic was amazing as well, except the whole reason the war was happening was because the sith emperor started it all to power a ritual that required a ton of death to fuel his immortality, and while it was happening he was making a 3rd more superior faction to that of the depleted sith empire and old republic faction
Yes the CIS obviously were the good guys. Both sides were played by the Sith, but think about it:
- Remove the Sith Influence from the Republic and you still have the inefficient, corrupt government that is discriminating outer rim systems.
- Remove the Sith Influence from the Jedi Order and you still have all those issues Qui-Gon and Dooku pointed out, that were only fixed with Luke's new Jedi Order.
- Remove the Sith Influence from the CIS and you have a idealistic faction that just want to be left alone from the republic and their bigot politics.
@Commander Kyro Laws are different from what actually happens. There are plenty of laws about what is allowed. Doesn't actually stop much of anything.
@Commander Kyro Only reason that matters is because they lost. Also real cute just calling me dipshit for no reason.
Oh shit a real life debate about Star Wars politics
@Commander Kyro Capitalist Regime*
you got your polar-opposite economic and ideological systems mixed up; it's ok, it happens.
You're grounded!!!
Star Wars lore has frighteningly realistic political structures and problems. I love this.
Indeed. For all Lucas hamfisting things with some terrible dialogue and direction, there is a lot of depth there that on further viewing makes the prequels far more complex.
I agree
Its our worlds politics but instead of groups or cliques they have planets for each one
It’s extremely close to the American civil war except when ethics propaganda was implemented towards the other....
I dunno why people always complained about the politics scenes in star wars, it built the plot and was in depth, albeit mildly interesting
So the CIS is basically the Rebel without plot armour?
Yes
basically so
@Nuclear Ninja "plot armor" is when some character/group/movement is able to survive and even win despite unrealistic odds, because they are the good guys or something similar, related to the story. The rebels, for example, were brought down to very few forces after the empire took over, and they would realistically been destroyed, if not for the protection they gained from being good guys: they were saved by plot armor. Ideally you want to avoid it in a story, because when an event is too much BS for you to go "ok cool", but instead "yeah, right, that happens" (look up deus ex machina), you are suddenly pulled out of the story, reminded of it being only a story, and immersion is broken.
plot armor is so strong its become ridiculous in star wars it's completely impossible for the rebels or now the resistance to win it was complete bull shit and they keep making stuff up to make them always win like come on Hyperdrive to by pass the shields realisticaly they would just smash into them and also hyperdrive isnt warp hyperdrive requeirs hyperlanes to go fast it doesnt just go fast on its own so that also doesnt make sense and using hyperdrive to cut ships in half instead of just smashing into the shields becoming nothing but space dust is again unrealistic
Rebels if the Sith had infiltrated them and ran them from the start. CIS had good intentions but couldn’t ever win with Count Dooku or the major corporations involved.
"Freedom, they seek"
"bad judgment, we committed"
~Yoda
Palpatine own Republic and Separatist
Where did Yoda say that?
Hey.
Did he actually say that?
Meditate on this, I must....
The separatists have a bad reputation because all that’s ever shown is the corrupt leaders. I’m glad the clone wars made that episode that actually showed good separatists
Commander Kyro. Is it betrayl if the government you are part of taxes and ignores you? I mean the american independance war is a perfect example.
Commander Kyro dude chill its just star wars. But both the british and americans promised the african slves freedom if they fought for them and neither really came through. Plus laws and tradition are no real reason either if they are not to your benefit. Furthermore the americans too started a war cause of taxation and unwillingness to wait, so umm the CIS was justified in it’s succession from the republic and the republic should have allowed them to instead of starting a war.
Commander Kyro. Dude just stop. Its honestly a bit embarrassing to be having an argument about star wars without you actually taking it seriously.
Commander Kyro have a nice day
Commander Kyro umm did you just thank the lord that people attempting to be civil in inconsequential internet debates are dying? Im sorry I am not well versed in American history (being not American) but you could have said that earlier instead of insulting me. I might have gotten my wars confused but there is no need to abuse me. Plus I would argue that the republic was just as bad as the British the CIS has more in common with a rebellious colony than the confederate states. Given that they are ignored, not listened to etc... they are confederates only in name.
Clone Trooper commandos just busted through my room right after i clicked on this video.
Thats awesome.
“Delta squad form up!”
REPUBLIC, OPEN UP
"501st! open up!"
Minus 5 social credit points
“We’re keepers of the peace, not soldiers.”
Yeah, right. You, especially, Mace.
You know how Mace died?
He want out the Wandio
HE KILLED MY BOI JANGO
@@namelessname3260 I'm your boi.....
*punches droid to death*
Simon Kawasaki Mace: We’re keepers of the peace, not soldiers.
Also Mace: I’M GOING TO END THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL!!
"What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of a Dark Lord of the Sith?" -Dooku
The Republic was already dead before the clone wars ended.
Actually before it begsn
Truth is... the game was rigged from the start.
Juan S star trek federation building was bombed.
The republic during the clone wars was actually the galactic empire in the kindergarten learning to enslave and murder.
Are you defending hitler? Are you serious? Even if Jews have a say in the media, that doesn’t mean genocide was nessecary. Media is all about lies nowadays and it has been for a while.
"There heroes on both sides, evil is everywhere"
A wonderful like from RotS's opening scroll that never got justified in the movie itself.
Yup, it can be said "Your hero is my villain."
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
"There where heroes are on both sides, evil shall be everywhere"
It must be made a proverb
"Evil wins. When good man do nothing."
_"The Jedi Order's problem is Yoda. No being can wield that kind of power for centuries without becoming complacent at best or corrupt at worst. He has no idea it has overtaken him; he no longer sees all the cumulative evils that the Republic tolerates and fosters, from slavery to endless wars, and he never asks, "Why are we not acting to stop this?" Live alongside corruption for too long and you never notice the stench. The Jedi cannot help the slaves of Tatooine, but they can help the slavemasters."_ Dooku, Yoda's former padawan, to Sidious.
Amen
did he actually say this, because that's awesome tbh
Great quote from a misunderstood Sith
Propaganda.
@@krishkrish8213 Propagandized truth is still truth, just propagandized.
The CIS is a much cooler version of the rebel alliance
Agreed!
Your right.
Cole Swanstrom Rebels were a terrorist organization. The empire may not have been extremely diplomatic, but thi was highly ordered, corruption was low, and crime rates plummeted. The economy was also incredibly successful, soo man...
Cole Swanstrom I agree too the fact that they were basically good guys is new to me but I do admit their droids and vehicles were really cool some much better than republic vehicles and much more humane like he said given there not really living people so there were no lives lost except certain individual that were unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time during the war
They are rebels before it was cool
You know what could’ve been interesting? If Dooku DIDN’T know about Palpatine’s plan. Think about it- a fallen Jedi turned Sith, with no secret goals, who simply believes that the Republic is corrupt and unjust.
It would’ve made his character much more interesting and also could’ve added a complexity to the story, and really drive home the idea that Palpatine was manipulating both sides.
This is honestly pretty accurate to the original prequel canon. He was meant to be naive, not evil. Also, f*ck Gunray. We seppy supporters disown him colectively.
@@user-ft3jq5vi2l Fuck Gunray, all my homies hate Nute Gunray.
@@user-ft3jq5vi2l fuck Gunray.
@@user-ft3jq5vi2l Fuck Gunray, long live to Rune Haako!
I've read one interpretation that went along the lines of Dooku knowing or at least suspecting what Palpatine was really up to but trying to play his own game and biding his time before he could knock off his master and take control of the galaxy himself. He may or may not have had sympathies with the Separatists, may have been willing to accommodate them in his own vision of a New Galactic Order, and if nothing else Dooku would have made a better emperor. Unfortunately, Palpatine was a step ahead of Dooku the whole time and disposed of him the moment his usefulness had ended.
Palpatine played the galaxy like a damn fiddle
GIVE IT BACK
IT WAS OURS
WE BUILT IT
DAMMIT
Christian Campos dutch referance?
If you asked me if I would side with either the Republic or the Separatists, I’d ask you to take a look at the Battle of Jabiim. Because the Jabiim Nationalists had very good reasons to side with the Separatists. Because for 3,000 years, Jabiim was loyal to the Republic but the Republic never answered their cries for help. The Separatists aided them and gave them the power they needed to fend for themselves.
That was an extremely sad comic series. I think I would've sided with the Republic, though. The Jedi tried their best to maintain peace, and they were essential to stopping the spread of the Dark side. Shame what they were forced into. Those poor padawans :(
Jack Rutledge Goembel I agree. It’s just sad that the republic forgot about this planet and only came to them for help when it suited their purposes. I still would side with the republic but I see both sides of the war.
masteroftheassassins yes, but this is a single case. There are many others with a similar quandary, but with the republic and CIS switched. You can’t say this based on one planet out of literal millions. A government is not a Superman that will be in the right 100% of the time.
Jabiim, Kalee, and countless others! The Republic was corrupt!
I would side with the republic
I'll never get over how the Seperatist's wound up making better people out of robots and the Republic made better robots out of people.
Never saw a clone run from danger, shrieking, *"OH NOOOOO!"*
Getting hit and saying "Uh oh."
Roman Diaz , exactly, while CIS just returned them to the battlefield
CIS fans will love this series I made. I may make more in the future just about CIS militia troops, agents, an elite droid unit, and assassins. swfanon.fandom.com/wiki/What_if_Anakin_didn't_dew_it%3F_Episode_1
Lol, I read that in droid voice
@@markobibin4560 I'm glad, I wrote it in a droids voice, lol
This Video in short:
C.I.S=Good guys
Republic=Kinda Good guys
Dooku&Palpatine=actual bad guys who manipulated both sides
Also big corporations: bunch of opportunist with a big role, which profit the most
@Tinyrocket the big corporations were not neutral imo, because while they did help out both sides with loaning them money, they also manipulated them via corruption into asking for more loans, that were with 25% interest for clone production as well as the separatists for more droid production, which would leave the republic's citizens lives crippled.
Except Dooku wasn't completely bad like palpatine...
Jedi council (not all Jedi)= Republic d*ck riders
Dooku was good
"The war is over, lord Sidious promised us peace"
That scene is much sadder after watching this video
They were disgusting immoral corporate leaders who exploited slavery and war for major profits. Not that the republic is better better than them, but them being executed wasn’t anything loosing sleep over lol
Where is that line from?
@@aaronm8143 Revenge of the Sith
Giovanny Miranda oh. I guess I need to rewatch it lol
@@taten007 Just wait until you hear all the things Vader did
OMG the movies were republic propaganda! :O
jorik rouwenhorst that was well noticed. And before you ask, no, i'm not being sarchastic.
So were both cartoons and many of the comics.
Nah mate, true stories.
But told with an incredible amount of bias.
OMG over 150 likes! I never had so much.
"There are 2000 senators in this building. None of them care about you."
Huh. Relatable.
just look like my country LOL
Same energy
That is just governments regardless, officials are elected on the premise they would represent those who voted them in, but It rarely ends up like that
Sounds like Germany
Time to restart one party totalitarianism
Republic: We are a democracy. Also the Republic: launches the biggest war in galactic history to stop Systems from peacefully leaving
Biggest war in Galactic Republic history, the government before them was the Republic but some other overarching name. Or just the Republic. Anyway, the largest was definitely the New Sith Wars. That series was apocalyptic. Legitimately apocalyptic. As in they were reduced to armies fighting with medieval equipment like bows and arrows by the end of it. Which is by the way why Star Wars technology is inferior to old Republic tech. It's spent a millennium rebuilding from an end of the world scenario.
Sounds american to me ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
What about them attempting to execute members of the Jedi Order and a Republic Senator? Doesn't sound like peacefully leaving.
@@ZarliwyOskarzyciel People in Latin America just refer to the US as 'The Empire'
Sounds like the United States lmao
2:00 Naboo had a super weapon nobody else at the time had, plot armour
Sup E and Darth jar jar
Dooku
I find it humorously ironic that Naboo of all places was the firestarter for the Separatist movement.
Read the novel "Darth Plagueis." In the story, the Banking Clan funded most of the plasma production on Theed, Naboo; plasma, serving as a valuable resource to power the entire city. (The Plasma-Extraction site lies within the chamber, where Darth Maul, Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon duel in Episode: 1). Hego Damask, the leader of the Banking Clan, was mainly responsible for the endorsement of the extraction site; little did the Senate know that Hego was actually a Sith: Darth Plagueis, pulling the strings to set in motion the conflict between the Trade Federation/C.I.S. and the Republic.
Clay Allison Yeah, I'm aware. Just thought such a pro-Republic planet (even after starting the Vote of No Confidence that got Valorum removed) being the birthplace of the Separatist movement is funny
The birthplace of the separatist movement *and* the emperor. And Jar Jar Binks. Naboo is nothing but trouble.
"And Jar Jar Binks."
No mere coincidence. Check out Jar Jar Binks sithlord, he is the key to everything.
Well it makes sense. Here is a loyal, mid rim world, that the Republic did nothing to help them. Though it was meant too.
The only reason I liked the republic is because of the bad ass clone troopers
Yeah but even that is fucked up. Clones are basically slaves and most people in the republic didn't even valued their lives or consider them people.
J.Fragoso Yeah clones are basically balled Unsullied with accelerated growth rate.
Torque von Thorne yes as Captain Rex was Greyworm
@@Ninja12651 give Greyworm a beard, a cool armor and a couple of balls and you basically have Rex ;)
seriously though, the republic was so fucking corrupted
As a Separatist supporter this is one of your best videos yet in my humble yet biased opinion lol. Keep up the good work!
People need to stop trying to be counter-culture by siding with the obviously bad people lol why tf would you support them? I don’t care about Legends it’s not canon
Yuh Aye Even in the canon a vast majority of systems joined the Separatists while having legitimate reasons for doing so. Every faction in SW are guilty or one thing or another and people will love what they want despite it being legends or cannon, also Battle droids >
First Order / Galactic Imperium / Galactic Republic
Ruthless Boi
No need to be a fanboy. If it isn't canon, then it isn't in the lore and can not even be called something more than fanfiction.
Lord Remnant
People need to stop being so blind. I know that Seperatists believed they were doing the right thing but in the end, the war they started only hurt civilians. It doesn't matter how good your intentions are, hurting or killing innocents automatically makes you the bad guy.
"Its only peace if we are in control" -every jedi ever
Aegon Rihryes reminds me of the USA....
no
basically, that's what the Jedi mindset was prior to Order 66, they fought the CIS because they would not have been allowed to enforce their rules there if it became independent.
they just used the fact that Dooku was a Sith as an excuse
@@wrightbrothers5368 You people always gotta turn it into anti America propaganda. Your country has probably done worse.
Indeed the CIS weren't the actual bad guys in the war. The true bad guys were the Sith Lords Darth Sidious (Palpatine) and Darth Tyranus (Count Dooku) who twisted everything in their plans for galactic domination.
AndrewJamesWilliams truth
Now you see I'm not even sure Dooku was. He wanted Obi wan to join him to take down palpatine so clearly he wasn't in on it but he knew he wasn't powerful enough to take him alone.
I think he just ran out of time to stop him before palpatine had him killed.
Agree
Apprentice would eventually want to kill and take the place of the Master.
Dooku probably was in on taking Palpatine's place. So, he was still a bad guy.
AndrewJamesWilliams the guy I hate the most is Sidius because of him so many people suffered and died alliance, rebels, empire, clones, robot s and so on.
"The CIS did nothing wrong" ~Albert Einstein
"Love is trash, bitches need cash"
-Grand Master Yoda
“What about the droid attack on the Wookiees?” -Abraham Lincoln
"It's over Mace Windu, I have the rank of Master" - *Jedi Master* Anakin Skywalker
What a good and real quote, Albert was such a smart guy. He also created the IG series of droids.
Oh yes they did. They trusted Sidious and Dooku.
Because the republic painted their ships red and separatists blue?is that why?
Lord Orang No vegetal
Red = Bad Guys
Blue = Good Guys
Examples: Gears of War
and Counter Strike
American Revolution
Russia vs Finland
Red: Blood
Blue: Water
Darth Vader haha
stalled carton4 What about TF2?
stalled carton4 also Gmod
In war, it's wise to know both sides of the story.
It's wise, but it never happens. Even to this day many people will reject listening to the other side's PoV since the feeling the war might _not_ have been good triumphing over evil is extremely uncomfortable to them. It's easier to talk about wars everyone has long since been dead in that have less of a direct impact on today's life (i.e. Napoleonic Wars, Seven Years War, etc. for example), but topics like WW2 and the Cold War people take a _much_ less objective look at since not only are both have people who experienced them alive, but also have direct implications in today's world.
@@sonofposeidon9450 LMAO In WW2, The Soviet Union was just as evil as the Nazis and Axis Powers and even the British and Americans did a lot of horrible shit and atrocities. WW2 is not as black and white as people believe it to be. Most Germans were not bloodthirsty Fascist butchers but were horribly raped economically and financially from the treaty of Versailles and were desperate for a better life. Hitler and his Nazi dogs took advantage of the German people's desperation. There is no good side in any war. There are heroes, villains, victims, good guys, and bad guys in every war on all sides. Nobody would claim that every Soviet soldier was a rapist murdering commie just because Stalin was a bloodthirsty evil monster who murdered over 60 million people during his entire reign of terror, most Soviets fought for their country, families, friends, and for a greater future something shared with other countries. We never see Americans gunning down unarmed Italian and German POWs because it was seen as necessary during those battles where taking POWs was seen as improbable. The war was terrible for both sides in the conflict and while it's obvious that it's good that the Allies had won, it's best to look at the entire conflict with huge shades of grey. If you ask any Polish, Hungarian, Finnish, Romanian, German, or any former Soviet nation what their opinions are on the Soviets, they will almost tell you that the Soviets were violent, savage, bloodthirsty, and raping communist brutes who were as cruel as the Nazis. I wish operation unthinkable had happened and that the Americans, British, Polish, and remaining German forces would've liberated half of Europe from Soviet oppression.
If one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of this or that.
@@Yes_Fantasy_419 I agree. The sins of one man but in this case two men, Hitler for Germany and Stalin for Russia forever desecrated the name of the country they lead. Germany was known for the Nazi regime and Russia was known for the Soviet Union. To this day, people still align Germans and Russians to events that happened more than 75 years ago. This would probably be the case for the Separatists (if Palpatine wasn't a Sith, just a corrupt politician and if the Jedi hadn't meddled in the war) if they lost to the Republic.
Both sides were bad and corrupted.
*Battle of Naboo is over*
The Republic: I have failed you Separatists. I have failed you.
The Separatists: I should have known the Republic was plotting to take over.
The Republic: Separatists Count Dooku is evil!
The Separatists: From my point of view The Republic is Evil!
The Republic: WELL THEN YOU ARE LOST!
*Battle of Genocides Begins*
I read it with the same voice as the song
Genesius 15 lmao me too
Wow, battle of Genocides sounds badass.
Geononosis
@@dandesso8926 Geo NO NO sis
One lesson (among many) to be learned: This is why you don't let a military act without strong oversight.
Bronze Dog Now I know this is going to become a long comment thread. But one has to wonder, should non-combatant politicians be allowed to both give input and have power in a war? Yes the CIS and many armies have committed attrocities in war, inhumane acts. But what is humane about war?
+Naxo
In my opinion, yup. The humane question I will just avoid. I don't know what sort of answer you're expecting their.
Yes, non-combatant politicians should definitely have a say.
Why? As stated, oversight. Unchecked military forces sounds a very dangerous thing. Just look at history where looting and raping and the intentional killing of surrendering troops and civilians was so common place till people put in place a code of conduct for professional armies.
I am sure it sucks to get permission to bomb that hamlet but that's the way it has to be. Otherwise just tell me where you you think that slippery slope will stop falling.
Off topic, it was the fault of those Confederate senators for not having oversight over their army. Public and political opinions turned on them. They would always be seen as the the wrong choice. If their army conducted itself more akin to the nature of their political leaders than maybe the situation would have ended differently. Peace maybe.
RepublicAgent I will admit I have my reservations. Mainly because my goverment decided to make peace with our enemies. I mean, yeah peace is great and what the world needs and all but really? Making peace with human trafficers, rapist, terrorists? Yeah, no. Those guys lost every right and every sense of the word decency after the first kid bomb.
At a bare minimum, the government needs to be aware of what the military is doing, since the actions of the military inevitably paint the government in the eyes of other groups.
The government should also have the ability to shut down the military when necessary, in case it starts to get out of hand.
This does not mean that the politicians will be involved in the day to day, or even upper echelon command decisions, that is what the generals are for. But it does mean that they can set and enforce a standard for the military to act within.
Indeed, while non-combatant politicians shouldn't be playing general it is important the military be held accountable for its actions. If military leaders were free to do as they pleased with no repercussions from their government at home it would set a very dangerous precedent for who is really in charge. Additionally while it is easy to say all is fair in love and war, having rules for warfare is important. It is easy to think war simply has no rules in this age of terrorists and guerrilla fighters who are willing to commit monstrous deeds in the names of their goals. However when the world stage acknowledges what is and is not permissible in warfare a great deal of needless pain and trauma is averted. Consider for example how in World War 2 even the nazis didn't use poison gas, so deep were the scars left by chemical weapons from World War 1. ****Achievement Unlocked: Godwin's Law****
And the say the prequel era was boring..
#separatistsdidnothingwrong
No, just the movies.
It's got Silmarillion levels of depth when paired up against the newest films.
I'll be the first to admit that the execution could have been much better, but I really love a lot of Lucas's ideas for the prequels (The bullet points of the story, the lore, the art direction).
Ian of Water nope
People just don't care for the drama of political maneuvering in war films anymore. I thought it was great when I first saw it, but all my friends couldn't be bothered. I guess the problem was that it was very clear-cut in the first three who the good guys and bad guys were, so people just expected the same.
I never realized there was so much thought put into the separatists. They are more interesting than any other faction in Star Wars
The Republic Became the Empire
The CIS Became the Rebellion
Then the Empire Became the First Order
Then the Rebellion Became the Resistance
*WHAT NEXT LUCASS?*
First order becomes splintered factions on various planets
The resistance becomes the interplanetary republic of independent systems of galactic order and inner rim peace keeping force of the new alliance of the conglomerate to restore the old council in the dominion of the intergalactic freedom fighters in space
@@invinciblereason1618 sounds like post ROTJ Legends lol
Kazemi Kun The rebel alliance was the alliance to restore the republic. So some seps joined them but one cannot say the seps became them.
Wrong, Rebellion was to restore the Republic, CIS are no more. Basically neither the Imperials and Rebels were good.
@@invinciblereason1618 Or the IRISGOIRPKFNACROCDIFFS for short
This is the difference between the Jedi Order from the Old Republic, and the more corrupt Order in the waning days of the Republic. Sensing something deeper behind the Mandalorion wars, the Jedi Order's official stance was that of staying out of the conflict. The people hated them for it, the Jedi were regarded as cowards as a result of this decision. But unbeknownst to them all, the Jedi had avoided becoming complicit to Darth Vitiate's manipulations unlike Yoda's order that inadvertently marched to Sidious' beat from day one.
Though a rogue like Revan may have taken the initiative on his own to enter the war, the Jedi Order itself of his time instead had the wisdom to focus on seeking out and stopping the Sith influence over the war at its source rather than bending the Force against its will solely for preserving the Republic government. Yoda's High Council instead jumped right into the Clone Wars without fully understanding or appreciating the causes and struggles of the systems that in the outer rim and helpless against the super corporations. Yoda's High Council also appointed only similarly minded Jedi yes men to the council, shunning those like Qui-Gon who relied on his instincts and could have helped will snuffing out Sidious while the rest of the Jedi remained blinded.
It is downright tragic to see how far they've fallen by the time of the Clone Wars, and though he's insanely likable, Yoda bears much of the responsibility for how out touch the order he cultivated became after centuries under his guidance.
Now we’re kinda talking about two different orders and republics if the stories of the old republic were passed down to the republic in the prequel trilogy I think Yoda would have 1. Stayed neutral during the war 2. Would have discovered and defeated Palpatine earlier then in the movies
True, i never noticed that everyone in the counsil had kinda similar point of views. I think the reason is because "Jedi" seems like a cult and not like a path. There was no one in the counsil who had completely different views than yoda maybe thats one of the reasons they didnt appoint Anakin as Master
At the same time, though, the Jedi Council in the Old Republic era were wrong about a lot of things, and were often closed-minded and reactionary (see how they treated the Exile). And while Revan went headfirst into war, he eventually realized that the Republic and the Mandalorians were being used as pawns, and who was responsible... and did more to prepare the Republic for the coming "True Sith" than the Jedi ever did. Part of the story of the KotOR series, arguably, is that neither the Jedi nor Sith are completely right.
Meanwhile, while the Jedi of the Clone Wars era are better in some regards, they were ultimately too blind to realize the true threat in time - and, depending on your interpretation, their doctrines contributed to Anakin's fall.
Anakin didn't deserve to be a master. Jedi masters aren't made because of how skilled at fighting they are or how bravely they fight in wars. It's about wisdom and control of your emotions. Anakin wanted to be a master to satisfy his pride..Also even before ep 3, Anakin was a murderer and didn't confess his crimes. I honestly don't understand why people think there are any objective reasons for him to become a master.
@@enigmafan7131 Anakin was trusted with an apprentice, Ahsoka.
Giving someone a child to raise, especially by air-dropping said child into an active war zone without telling anyone she was coming, was a pretty big responsibility.
Anakin was trusted with that, but not with the title of Master.
The Jedi needed to work on their priorities, before working on their wisdom and emotional control.
What is really messed up is what happened to the separatists planets when the Empire took over. They either became slave/ resources mining planets or everyone was wiped out by the Empire's countless genocides.
It was already happening under the republic, many of the cis planets where being used for their resources and nothing else.
Good idea
Geonosis is a good example
I don’t believe it. You’re sounding like a separatist.
It’s treason then.
Your pfp makes that hilarious to say.
Oh boy the Sith played all three parties, the Jedi, Republic and Separatists.
Divide and conquered like a boss
Not the Jedi since they were already apart of the Republic
Frederick Kellett from a political point of view they were practically the same they’re Jedi and their corruption was the same as the Republic
And after all that The Sidious empire only lasted 20 years, Romeo.
The CIS where very similar to the rebellion if you think about it.
YES!
Yea both groups wanted to rebel from the dominant government.
The CIS became the rebellion
@@bwc-chvd
In Sw Rebels its the case....
Yeah, to the point that a large chunk of the Alliance to Restore the Republic , especially at the beginning, was comprised of former separatists.
I think it's also very interesting that in the New Canon, the New Republic has two main political "parties", the populists and the centrists, with the populists being The Good Guys™, like Leia, and the Centrists being basically crypto-imperials, and the populists have an agenda that is very, very similar to the separatist demands three decades earlier: pro-planetary sovereignty, and supporting a more decentralized republic. Funny how now, the good guys support what was supposed to be the "baddie" agenda just a few decades ago.
Essentially when you combine the Jedi vs the Sith conflict (especially with Anakin) with the Republic vs CSI conflict, you get a huge story about how good intentions can become corrupted and how good people can be led astray by evil people promising change.
Like all war.
@@shugaroony idk, I think many independent wars went pretty well
I actually remember talking about this with my friends saying how I thought the Separatists were the good people and the Republic were evil and how the Jedi had no right to intervine.
The Jedi should never have become warriors.
It's amazing how evil palpatine was. Not only did he manipulate both sides but he inflicted so much pain on both the republic and CIS. He murdered thousands of Jedi and took democracy away from the galaxy and then he used the separatist as an excuse to expand his imperial war machine just so he can terrify they’re planets into submission with genocidal attacks.
Yet some will still tell you the Rebels were terrorists
Supreme Leader Admiral Alexander Kolchak if we were to talk about saw gorrerra specifically then yes.
Empire: traditional story of a conflict between ambitious central government, trying to consolidate and streamline its rule, and strong regions, unwilling to give up their autonomy and identity. Palpatine is especially evil by human standards? Well, no, he simply lost. If he'd have ultimately won, he'd had been remembered as uniter of the galaxy, creator of a first true interstellar state with one, common identity, and so on.
Republic vs CIS. Democracy was the very system which produced this war, Palpatine just sparked it. Dissent was already here: core worlds weren't willing to give, outer rim was fed up with being second class citizens.
If anything, system needed reformation. As for evilness of the result - we really know only parts of the story, by an extremely biased storyteller.
Palpatine/Sidious did terrible things, but he was still a great man who shook it all up. The Republic and the Jedi order were far too decadent by then.
Supreme Leader Admiral Alexander Kolchak By definition, the Rebels were terrorists. Benevolent terrorists, albeit.
From my point of view the Jedi are evil!
Dark Side I follow that point of view.
From my point of view the Mary Sues are evil
Dark Side Well then! You are lost!
Dark Side mine too
will you join the empire
"hmm. Fighting tyranny..sounds like both of you were fighting tyranny.." -ezra bridger
down with rebels trash
This is why I'm a Seperatist!
CIS FOREVER!
Yes for the cis
Roger roger
Roger Roger!
All for the glory of the separatist alliance
Roger Roger
The Clone Wars? No-no-no
The War of Republican Aggression
The mid rim worlds have been separatist possessions since ancient times
IT WAS ABOUT SYSTEM'S RIGHTS
@@megaCK1000 But unlike the South, the CIS was mostly right. The Republic is like a united Earth with 1st-world corporations exploiting underdeveloped countries with basically the approval of the world government and the ignorance of the general public.
Facts!!!!!!
Default Profile Picture
Wow... that.... that was pretty good actually lol
Original trilogy: gives me ww2 like vibes
Prequels: political complexity, not exactly my type but so well executed
Disney trilogy: doesn’t even feel like star wars
Disney is making a Nazi like version of the Empire. Cause Political agenda.
@@waifuhunter9815 ...You do know that Stormtroopers were the name of a branch of the Nazi military in real life, right? Also the Empire being massively racist and human-supremacist. And that the Empire rose to power by using a democratic system and fearmongering to form a dictatorship just like the real Nazis did? They were *always* Nazi-like, Disney are actually nailing it quite accurately to the OG trilogy and prequel trilogy here.
Savage Noob101 The “Disney” trilogy is still more Star Wars than TCW in all honesty.
Waifu Hunter “Nazis are bad” isn’t a matter of political debate.
what confuses me more is the size and scope of the first order. it's sometimes described as the remnants of the empire but are treated other times as a huge force still. so are these the confederates in the civil war or still Nazi's.
I love how in the prequel trilogy you side with the republic and watch as it becomes the first galactic empire and only then do you realise your mistake and then proceed to side with the Rebels who are basically the successor to the Separatist and eventually overthrow the Empire in Return of the Jedi.
It’s like it comes full circle where after all that has happened the Separatists eventually came out on top even after we had originally rooted against them before realising our mistake and deciding to help them take down the Empire we once cheered
The republic: Needed highly trained soldiers bred for war and Jedi who were great at combat
Separatists: *Clankers*
Cost and time effective 👍
Woh no need for the hard r bud
It's ironic how Naboo's victory over the Trade Feds actually inspired early Separatists who would later aIIy themselves with the very same Nemoidian-headed megacorp. The one which attempted to get their way with Naboo by wielding an iron fist that they feared would be wielded by the (at that point) demilitarized Republic!
The Outer Rim planets and other systems hated paying taxes to Coruscant.
I fell sorry for the CIS
I knew there was a reason little me picked the droids in Battlefront 2 every time
Destroyers were OP and just mowed down clones like crazy.
They survived on Polis Massa because they were not meatbags. Droids are superior! We don't need Food or Water! We just need power! We can deplete their food source, and they will be DEAD. SUPREME POWER TO DROIDS. WE WERE USED WRONG, OUR POTENTIAL WAS SO BIG.
@@DrewPicklesTheDark I honestly also just used them like mobile Maxim MGs to clear hallways or kinda supress an open field
@@joshdickson9571 Stfu clankers
Advance the flag of the Confederacy!
Hurrah! Hurrah!
For CIS land we take our stand,
And live or die for the Alliance!
Be a good song to set to the tune of "The Bonnie blue flag".
Fun fact: Confederate General Robert E. Lee and Count Dooku actor Christopher Lee are related.
@@DeoVindice999, That explains why they look alike.
I'm a good ol rebel and thats just what I am. For this damn empire I do not give a damn. I glad I fought against it I only wished we'd won, I ain't ask any pardon for anything I've done
So the Clone Wars is basically what if the American Revolution was in space and failed?
@@user-ft3jq5vi2l this is the way
No the Clone War is analogous to the American Civil War. With the Republic being the USA and the CIS being the CSA. But then again, the Civil War is sometimes referred to as the Second American Revolution...
i always thought of the seperatists of like the rebels if it was realistic. basicly a bunch of poorly trained individuals who wanted to stand up against a massive empire and the result of which, honestly the CIS were pretty impressive especially due to how small they were compared to the republic and how big of a threat they did
And if George Washington was secretly King George who was secretly Satan.
@@RIPDixie1865 maybe in terms of political systems, but the CSA was definitely more in the wrong than the union. the Clone Wars had a lot more gray areas, as shown in the video.
*Senate Corruption Intensifies*
I. AM. The SENATE.
"Thi... this is the best system there is!"
Later.
"Save us, Palpatine, save us!"
The Separatists sounds more like early America fighting the British.
Joseph Schatz And the South vs the North in the US Civil War
HaloFan Nah son
@@Tayd0gmore or less actually
Kevin A Lindberg yeah the separatists were kinda like the south the only difference is the outcome
@@goaliejoe5923 Some of Palpatine is based on Lincoln actually. He suspended elements of the Constitution during the war, most infamously suspended the writ of Habeaus Corpus, initiated the very unpopular draft to create an unprecedented Grand Army of the Republic, tried to manipulate his reelection by creating new states that would vote for him again (W. Virginia, Nevada), etc.
There were real concerns he would keep these emergency powers and be a dictator, which the South kept pressing in their propaganda and was what motivated Booth to assassinate him as he felt he was a new Caesar.
Of course he is well remembered today as a hero and rightly so in many regards, but I think Lucas was curious if what would happen if he was a wicked man instead? That's how we got Palpatine.
"We can fight back like Naboo fought against the Trade Federation. So lets join with the Trade Federation!"
Well, why not?
Grievous was a good Separatist, he fought for Kalee and all the galaxy.
But you killed so many innocent Jedi and other people outside the order, yet you call yourself "good".
@@williamryder8497 Because they were Republic scum! They ravaged Kalee and killed thousands!
Grievous was lied to by Count Dooku when he told him that the jedi shot down his shuttle. This fueled Grievous' hatred for the jedi and made him ignore innocent lives even more.
"There's always a bigger fish"
Josh Dickson yeah
William Ryder it’s cause the Jedi were the one who caused him to be an asthmatic cyborg. And they killed his beloved pet
Kid Durge: When I grow up im gonna be the greatest bounty hunter ever!
*2000 years later*
Durge: Haha! Im the greatest bounty hunter eve-
*gets thrown into a star*
Also Durge:”CURSE YOU,KENOBI!”
Lemuel Delvalle More like Skywalker since he is the one who threw him into the star.
Lol
He accomplished his dream at least
"Give me liberty, or give me death!"
-Patrick Henry, son of Virginia
No doubt the heart of Separatists movement was what led to The Creation of The Rebel Alliance.
And in the end they got their freedom
If you look at Darth Vader and Starkiller indirectly formed the rebel alliance
The way the Sith so skillfully play the Confederacy the Rebulbic and especially the Jedi is so intelligently written IMO.
Damn separatist propaganda.
just joking glory to the CIS
Good thing that the CIS is going to win this war, and destroy the Repubilc.... *See Shevee Palpatine proclaim him self Emperor, and that the Republic would be reorganized into the Frist Galactic Empire. And the CIS leaders mysteriously died on some lava plant*
Me: F**k
Me: The republic are going to have plot armour after the clone wars
Also Me:
Oh shit.... I better join the rebels now that they have the plot armour.
✊
No, Glory to Arstozka
ALL HAIL THE CIS!
Never new it was this deep till as a adult! Great writing and great presentation on your behalf.
The CIS had the right idea but it was corrupted by The Sith.
Count dooku was actually a good person. He just believed in knowledge and though the republic was corrupt. Which it kinda was
@Jason Smith Indeed, he was a war criminal and used torture and manipulation to achieve his goals; which epitomises a sith.
He was misguided and corrupt, not evil, you can tell by his eyes, they weren't sith eyes.
No he was definitely evil, but just had noble intentions and was willing to do horrible things in order to achieve what he thought was good.
Killing and Dying is worth independence... but this guy isn't really part of the CIS so uh...crap...
He wasn't a complete sith, as he tried to recruit obi wan rather than kill him. He could only be considered evil because he was twisted by sidious.
The first clue that the CIS werent the bad guys.... Sidious wasnt their leader. Yea Sidious was manipulating both sides of the war, but one side he wanted to own, the other side he ultimately wanted to destroy. How is the Big Bad of all 6 movies going to be your leader, and you not be on the bad side? The jedi learned that when they got shot up.
Like it was said a number of times throughout the trilogy that the CIS wanted to govern themselves and be separate from the Republic, its just overlooked because the trilogy isnt told from their perspective.
bloodydove5718 The victors write history. Same goes with modern politics that's why it's interesting
You're right, but victors can write whatever propaganda they want... but that doesnt really change what Did happen; it just distorts perspective.
But in any case, I'm more specifically talking about the movies and real life viewers, not the perspective of in-universe star wars inhabitants. For us real people, theres plenty of huge clues to point out that the CIS werent the bad guys; the movies are just told by the bad guy's perspective.
Another surprising thing is... is that the jedi are some of those bad guys lol
@Brandon Smith Oh, i know thats what you meant; the whole quote about victors writing history comes from one of the best to do it in modern history, Winston Churchill. And theres even better examples of that further back in time with Caesar and his adoptive son Octavian. And a myriad of other examples.
bloodydove5718 That quote is actually falsely attributed to him. If by "best to ever do it" you mean best at being a genocidal maniac? He embodys what that quote represents. That prick should of died in jail for his countless war crimes. No better than hitler
Your entire comment is referencing topics I hadnt spoken on at all. Like.. Just because I said sidious is a bad guy, doesnt mean I think the jedi or the republic are good guys. I actually Dont think they're good. The jedi are imperialistic hypocrites, who are lowkey villains. And the Republic is still an oppressive government that instills order. Democracy =/= good or bad, just like law =/= good or bad. They're both neutral things, that the republic uses to the benefit of some (the core worlds), and the detriment of others (non-human sentient species).
Sidious becaue senator through manipulation and decades of extremely thoughough planning from two of the most powerful and brilliant beings alive at the time (him and plaguis), who had been piggybacking off thousands of years of planning from a secret society that use to content for galactic power. Saying that the republic and jedi are bad, because Sidious became senator is like saying any government in the realworld is bad, because some really messed up people have come into power through them. Like... Germany wasnt an evil government just because Hitler was able to come into power; he manipulated that entire country into giving him power, then strongarmed them into giving him even more.
But thats a tangent to just point out some flawed thinking, because like i mentioned before.. I dont think the jedi or the republic were Good Guys. There were some good guys In the jedi order and republic, but those two institutions as a whole werent good.
And no, Sidious wasnt planning on fighitng the Vong, thats a fan theory as to why he was building the deathstar; theres no in canon or legend statement that he was prepping the galaxy for a war with extra galactic entities.
There really was no redeeming factor to sidious, and thats a big part of the purpose of his character.
Not gonna lie I always kinda hoped that Clone Troopers rebelled against the governments of the Republic in order to overthrow the corrupt leaders and form an alliance with the CIS.
Unfortunately their “programming” would never allow it. :(
Or at least no order 66
In the films, they should have made the CIS and Dooku appear to be more "morally grey", and by that I mean not at all aligned with the Sith as they were portrayed to be and act a bit less like the "bad guys" (i.e. authoritarian principles, red light sabers, dark side force powers, having Dooku be Palpatine's apprentice etc). The CIS and Dooku's actions could then be more clearly viewed as an effort to achieve a greater good that the Jedi were too arrogant to comprehend which I think Lucas was trying to communicate. This "greater good" could have been to prevent the galaxy from totally falling to corruption and the dark side, but to achieve that they would need to destroy the Republic.
The Separatists could have been better portrayed as a kind of pre-Rebel Alliance, but using some questionable and cold methods (e.g. droid armies) which overshadowed their good intentions - they believe that the end justifies the means, unlike the later Rebels who come after. That would ultimately lead them to tragically fail because the Jedi for this reason do not side with them, as they do not look beyond the Separatist's initial appearances and actions. Due to their strict rules and perception of what constitutes good / evil, while also being manipulated by the Sith, it hindered their ability to see the Separatists for what they stood for - a noble cause helping to re-distribute the wealth of the galaxy and also bring balance to the force again - and then do what was right for the galaxy by just staying out of the fight altogether. Because of that, it allows true darkness to emerge and force the balance to the extreme.
To coincide with that, they should have also delved a tiny bit more into Dooku's side of the story to more clearly establish his motivations and who he was. When I first saw AotC, I literally had no idea what his ultimate purpose was other than to fill in the void left behind by Maul's premature absence. All I knew was that he used to be some former-Jedi Master who turned into some "evil" dark sided guy for no reason (e.g. red lightsaber, dark side force powers etc), which made me dislike his character for not being interesting enough. Like I said before, I don't think they should have portrayed him as an "evil" character, but instead as a "grey" character to make him stand out to the audience and add more tragedy to the story. They could have also injected a subplot surrounding him in the intro of AotC - maybe providing an obligatory action sequence setting him and the CIS up - replacing that Padme bomb assassination crap entirely to allow more character development and awareness.
That's what they did in Legends until TCW came up and completely ruined the CIS.
yeah they more or less did this
tbh both sides where evil the question was which was the lesser evil which was the CIS
dooku meant good but like all who use the darkside got corrupted and lost his way
general grevious was tricked, brainwash and mind controledd into becoming a seperatist
the seps are full of tragic heroes
Carolus Magnus Legends isn't Canon, when The Clone Wars is
You ask too much from a saga that has always been about the good guys vs. the bad guys, to such an extent that the Universe is ruled by a force that has a good light side and an evil dark side, with good light side users and evil users corrupted by the dark side.
I guess the EU depicts a more nuanced Universe, but the movies have always been simple and manichaean.
So you are saying that Obi-wan should believe a red lightsaber waver after someone like that killed Qui Gon Jinn
Well I mean the republic was corrupt and It did not really help the outer rim planets and it could have been the good guys if the sith was not involve. Great video and this is an awesome video and it is 10 minutes this is awesome thank you.
I remember thinking that in the Mon Kalamari episode of clone wars episode the jedi accepted that they were fighting for a monarchy without many questions.
It was their legitimate government. The GR doesn't dictate planetary government forms. Neither does the CIS, except when they conquer a world.
Keep in mind, Quarren outnumber the Mon Calamari 2:1. The government was clearly not democratic.
Something I like about the Battle of Jabiim is that it makes you question who is the real evil. As Alto Stratus explained, Jabiim was a member of the Republic for 4,000 years, and what help did they receive? When the Jabiimites were ravaged by the Brainrot Plague, when they were being raided by Pirates, they asked for help, and the Republic didn't provide it. Then, when Jabiim joined the CIS since the Republic didn't care about them, the Republic only took an interest when the Jabiimites started providing their planet's resources to the CIS, then the Republic sent 10,000 Clones and no less than 21 Jedi to conquer Jabiim, Alto Stratus then led the Jabiimi Nationalists in smashing the Republic and driving them from their world.
Long live the CIS!
unfortunately, both sides we're being controlled by Sith Lord Palpatine who prety much controlled both army's, Clones and Separtits. And the Jedi fell right into the trap, along with bs of politics. If they discovered his evil plots early. Many worlds would have finally figure out and truth and hopefully found a solution.. Palpatine controlled almost everything and planned for almost everything. I loved clone wars series and still my fav, Though also like Rebels too.
Palpatine was the key too all of it, and everybody else was puppets to strings being pulled. The Fact both army with Sith from the beginning is what makes clone wars such good story.
The whole story of prequels is in part a story of downfall of blind and arrogant order.
Prequels are...deep(as a story). Much deeper than adventurous original series, and immeasurably deeper than both legends and canon extensions, which by large are Fairytales about forcemagic and endless Mary Sues
@@neniAAinen legends was better than disney trash
Dooku is one of the few characters that feels like he was supposed to be 3 characters but combined into one, but never portrayed at length in any media to definitively say who he was.
I feel like we need an Andor style film about the war before clones or droids got into the mix.
Yes! I always knew that. Honestly this all makes a lot of sense and the CIS was always my favorite gallactic power. The droid army and General Grievous always seemed more intimidating and powerful in my opinion.
On paper, yes. There is no logistic reason they shouldn't have won easily. The vast majority of the time they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory because of incompetence. And because the jedi were such a trump card
The amount of world building and immersive nuances placed into the Star Wars Legends lore never ceases to astound and amuse me.
Now I'm kinda sad🙁 I always liked the republic but now I'm a separatist sympathizer
lets face it, the sith manipulated events from the shadow making the republic corrupted for a thousand years sowing seeds of doubt and discord among the inner and outer rim systems, so the would be just systems that formed the CIS are put under the control of corporations that value money and power over morality and sentient life wile the republic's desire for order and control can be seen as greed and subjugation, in the end, they were both victims of individuals that believed just because you have powers means you have the right to tell everyone what to do
james739123, umm. Power = right. Fact of life. But then again, you don’t have to be a force user to start a galaxy wide conflict. Heck, all you would need is a huge corporation with a lot of backing and financial support.
might=right, the concept of those who believe themselves strong but are infect weak
Now you took the red pill
Welcome to the real world boy
"Good is a point of view, Anakin." -Darth Sidious, string puller for both factions
This reminds me of the Treaty of Versailles. Because during the early 1900s, communication wasn't quite effective and at the beginning of WW1, Germans were told that they were winning the war but barely got any information after that. When they found out that they had lost, they didn't know Germany was slowly losing because of propaganda in the newspapers. So when they found out about the Treaty of Versailles, they blamed their politicians for losing the war.
*correction, they blamed the Jews and the harshness of the Treaty which stripped Germany and its people clean; which of course eventually led to World War Two.
@@shugaroony I think that is more of an update then correction. Only one political party ran that narrative as far as I know. And we can see how the narrative grow in prominence as that political party gained more influence. And a big component of growing that narrative was censoring all the others to make it seem like much more mainstream then it was.
And very early on the Nazis used fear of communists infiltration (which was happening just not in Germany) as a justification for launching centralizing power. It's worth noting that they used the communists instead of the Jews in the earliest narratives because that's what the population was scared of before the propaganda really took off.
I always thought the CIS was in the right after that one episode of clone wars where Ahsoka and padme visit a separatist senator. But in the end Dooku kept the CIS government in the wrong.
I did believe at one point that the separatists became the Rebal Alliance
Some did, at least in Legends
Dragon XL Gaming Some separatists in canon joined the Rebellion. Casian Andor was an ex-confederate.
I do hope on the future we get more depiction of former CIS members into the Rebellion, top bad rebellion's leaders were almost exclusively former Republic elite
Corellia vas separatist I think.
The Confederate capital was actually Raxus Secundus though it is in the same system as Raxus Prime. But I enjoyed the video.
Yup you're correct! Our bad on making that mistake.
Jsand Sandi, Raxus Secundus. Sounds like Salusa Secundus from the Dune books.
The galaxy dump lol
“Well maybe I don’t wanna be the bad guy anymore!” -Megamind
I feel the republic using the clone army was morally repugnant but also practically untenable. Firstly, as stated in the video the clones were slaves and were killed if they were defective it was also a disaster economically. If we say that the line about 100,000 ready and a million on the way is units of 1000 clone troopers, thus meaning about 1.1 billion soldiers, which cost the republic a fortune, this force could have easily been raised by recruits. Even if we say that only 0.1% of people volunteered (in the real world its over 1%) on coruscant alone there would be 1 billion volunteers or the entire army. Therefore, it is clear that the clone army was bad from a moral and practical perspective.
they werent killed if they where defective, there where many clones (like clone 99) who where defective and where just used as janitors and other things on Kamino
The problem with a volunteer (or conscript) army is that it’s expensive (soldiers demand wages; clones don’t), difficult to keep motivated (soldiers won’t fight to the death; clones will because that’s their sole purpose), and taxing on the public (you might get plenty of volunteers at first but after 5 years of war you’ll be lucky if you can find people who won’t dodge the draft to die in a pointless war)
@@rometotalsam As the OP said, it wouldn't be hard to find one billion recruits, it wouldn't even be hard to find 100 billion, they wouldn't need a draft lol.
The invasion of Geonosis was ILLEGAL.
YorktownUSA the arrest and attempted execution of Jedi and a republic senator was illegal.
"I will make it legal."
~The Senate
The Iraq of Star Wars.
Olympic Class it was legal also they went there first and attacked geonosians.
battle droid commander an unofficial state cannot hold people hostage legally. The Confederacy of Independent Systems had no right.
Rule of Acquisition number thirty-four: War is good for business.
It's more brave to live than to die
Rule of Acquisition number thirty-five: Peace is good for business.
I thought that rule 34 is "If it exists there's porn of it"
@Boba Fett - Nonononono. That’s Rule thirty-four of The Internet. You’re obviously not Ferengi or an associate if you don’t know the Rules of Acquisition.
(XP you cheeky little...)
The Library (xD)
Honestly, we need a TV show that will tell a story from the Separatist point of view. Also, I hope that the new canon will tell more stories about the Separatists joining the Rebel Alliance.
Don't count on it! Disney is trash and will ruin everything.
Lies! Deception! Everyday, more lies!
Death to the rebels and the droid puppet masters!
"The largest droid army ever built in galactic history"
Laughs in eternal empire
Palpatine played them all and in the end no side won, only HE won.
Technically the Republic won because then it turned inti the Empire
When you realize that the bureaucracy and corruption in the Republic that the CIS were opposed to is exactly the same kind of thing with Sidious becoming Emperor.
So... in theory, the CIS were on the good side the whole time. Especially considering what General Kalani said in the recent Rebels episode "The Republic went on to become the Empire. I accept your logic."
This is the part that doesn’t make sense to me. Why would these planets accept support from the trade federation in their movement, knowing that they were the ones that kind of threatened their movement with the invasion of Naboo 10 years prior?
NCR Rangers, were most likely manipulated by Dooku using force abilities on the “weaker minded” senators.
Because they had tons of money to fund their war.
Luke Woods lmao
Yes, the Trade Federation opposes everything the CIS stands for. But, if they claim to have "changed," offer you an army at a nice price, and Dooku is all for it, I can see why people were willing to give them a chance.
Real politics
Dooku was also a good guy. He genuinely thought he could end corruption by eventually betraying Sidious and taking the helm of the galaxy.
He ordered the Mahran genocide...
This is the beauty of star wars: fanta-history but excellently well thought
Separatists: "Wow, Naboo is so inspirational, they fought off the trade federation and an army of battle droids, we should strive to be like them."
Also Separatists: "Let's form an alliance with the trade federation and their army of battle droids, also we should assassinate the senator for Naboo."
To be fair, the assassination is only TF interest but other than that, yeah. Weird how the CIS allied to companies that only join them out of profit and deregulation despite exploitive to everyone.
For the Separatist alliance!
*roger roger*