Secret to Precision Target Shooting - Crazy Pellets Measuring
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ม.ค. 2014
- Precision target shooting is not something you might know about, but when it comes to precision airguns, crazy pellets measuring is involved to achieve crazy results. Here we will show you how it works and explain some 101 of pellets sorting, showing you the difference between a cheap can of pellets and an expensive box of pellets.
There are other measuring devices that the PRO gunners will use such as a digital measuring device for measuring pellet's head size, and other things like that. The key is, the more your pellets are identical to each others, the better and more consistent result you will get with a precision airgun.
Enjoy shooting! Shoot safe!
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Satori Moniaga Thanks a lot for your precious knowledge and comment, I love it! Learned a lot from some REAL shooters is priceless. I am not and did not shoot any matches, but I am indeed trying to learn more about these stuff at home for fun. Yes I know a tiny difference DOES matter for the pellets, and smaller the caliber, the bigger difference in microscopic measurements. I do agree with what you say, R10 unsort is okay enough for most case. I will try your tips and maybe even make a vid on cheap vs good pellets and do some PCP shooting test. I know, not all guns like R10 too but R10 is always better than a RWS diabolo or Crosman crappy pellets. LOL! I can see the big difference.
Thank you my friend! This was exactly the video i was looking for about the subject!
You just showed that effort is worth more than the money on the R10 plus pellets!
+Johan Eendenburg Van hahahahaha surely yes!
great video. weighing pellets is very good to get good grouping on your shots
Thank you for the Post. There are lots of good comments. I do not buy expensive for the reason you just showed.There are more factors involved...like diameter ,etc.But your vid is very useful.Yea, A good barrel is the Ace in the hole! And they come at a cost.And if you value accuracy,they are worth the extra bucks! I know this is a few years after the post but had to chime in.Thanks again.
Bro i love you . your videos are awesome
Thank you 🙏🏻
Two thumbs up!! For normal backyard shooters like myself I think any old pellets that the hobby store will have will do but for you precision shooters I think the more high end pellets make a big diiference
Actually all you need is a scale like this, sort your box or can of pellets out, and you will have a huge difference too. Not about money all the time, but if you sort it by weight, it does make a difference even with cheap pellets! Not to forget, I love my Crosman pellets that come in a box of 1250-ct and they do a good job if you sort it too!
Spent an evening sorting my 4000+ pellets by weight. It was a very educational experience :P
- Crosman Destroyers EX and Premier Ultra Magnums had 5 groups over a .5 grain range. Lightest an heaviest group only had 10 or less pellets. SSPs had 3 groups spread evenly at 3.5, 3.7, an 3.9 grains.
- Gamo Red Fire had 2 groups at 7.7 an 7.9 but I do not have enough pellets to come to a conclusion
- Winchester Hollowpoints was bad. 8 groups over a 1 grain spread. Cut the lightest group (20 pellets out of ~2200 left) and it's only a .6 grain spread. Biggest concentration at 9.6 and 9.5 grains, 1 tin at 9.4, two groups of 1/4 tin at 9.7 and 9.3, two groups less than 40 pellets at 9.2 an 9.8. Lightest group was 20 pellets between 8.8 - 9.1 grains.
Ironically the unsorted Winchesters was my most accurate pellet so far! A lot of work for cheap pellets being shot from cheap guns but I hope the effort was worth it
Great video but have seen comments on here suggesting weighing to 1 100th of a grain this is true the cheap digi scales are not good enough for comp shooters you should wiegh a batch zero to that batch and shoot them then you know what weight you are shooting you can go further by head size diameter for your particular barrels not all are the same please look into this as it counts when the shooter can actually shoot cheers buddy for your insights to this issue👍👌
I bet the Knicks and dents are from differences in packaging. In a tin as compared to a nice tray
Another great video thanks!!! Is there any place that sells the empty 100 container boes for the hand selected pellets?? Just the empty box. I would like to but 10 to start with. Thanks
hello, i have learn soo much watching your pellet videos. i live a non-free state and have plenty of firearms but i have been getting back into airguns again cause i can shoot in my basement. i have a 1377 with 18" barrel all modded out. also have a 2240 stock barrel modded out. what pellets should i buy for each. 1377 i shoot out to 40 yd.'s outside and 2240 i shoot inside at 25 feet. thank you, i value your opinion.
Another great video thanks!!! Is there any place that sells the empty 100 container boxes for the hand selected pellets?? Just the empty box. I would like to buy 10 to start with. Thanks
hi chiin do still use tin pellets than the pro tray are they ok.great vid mate
When you shoot the different weight RWS pellets how much group variation do you see. Do you only weight the pellets?
I weighed two 250 count tins of the cheapest Crosman pointed pellets a while back. Had a pile of 7.4 and a pile of 7.5 grains. As a check I reweighed some pellets halfway and they were reading .1 grain low consistently until I restarted my digital gunpowder scale :(
I may try again when I get a better (and mechanical) powder scale. It's a lot of work though! I think I have about 4000 pellets left in my stash :S
You had the same weight range between the $5.00 pellets and the $35.00 pellets, you should test pellets to get the best peelllet for your gun, not by price.
You need to get a scale that is 2 decimal points to the right...... (8.41 for example)...... that makes this type of measurement more accurate and you will know whether that 8.5 was actually 8.47 or 8.54
What about head size in conjunction with weight?
what is the weight rules for the pellets bro.
+Benedict Benito - why can't people invent a MACHINE that sorts the pellets eh? That will make life MUCH easier man. LOL!!! I like how you really did the sorting and tried it out! Fun evening and great findings!!
very good video, i don't understand why so many dislikes
Diamond scale is what I would use if I bothered to measure my pellets I train 10m shooting with an anschutz, but I am not really steady enough to bother sorting pellets, I go with unsorted r10's and I notice very little difference using meisterkugeln, I attribute this to me being a poor shot, since the rifle is well, better than me heh.
In Flanders Belgium we have this expression: Kind of f*cking ants.
I found so many hn pellets had bits of slag hanging off them
great video mate, after watching it i got my scale and caliper out. i tested 3 types of pellets .22 rws meisterkugeln 14gn. .22 crosman premier hollowpoint 14.3gn and .177 crosman premier super match 7.9gn. the rws had the best weight consistency ranging from 14-14.2gn the crosmans weight both types had a difference of .4gn but the interesting thing is the rws had the most inconsistent pellet head size ranging from 5.44-5.56mm. the crosman match came in best with head size from 4.45-4.50. and the h point were second best with a head size ranging from 5.48-5.56. the skirt size on the other hand on the rws was ranging from 5.71-5.75 the h point were 5.60-5.65 and the match were 5.62-5.67. all pellets tested were brand new, i tested 30 of each. the most interesting thing for me was that the head size on the better quality rws pellets had the worst consistency out of them all. for the skirt size it was more a less the same consistency from all 3 types. the rws are the best pellets i have access to atm. out of pellet head size and pellet weight what do you think has more of an affect on the accuracy?. i know both play a big role but i myself was thinking the head size would be more imported then the weight, or am i wrong.
Shooter4829 I would say the head size matters more than the skirt. Since it's the head that push thru the air first, that determines the air flow at the back even more. Ya the RWS is actually pretty good. If you are into precision airguns, then I am sure this trick will help a lot to get the pellets sorted before shooting. Fun eh
Chiinnature i might try and re-size the head on the pellets with a pellet sizer to see if i can get more accuracy from them after sizing the head and weighing them out as well. cheers
Shooter4829 wow that is hardcore stuff, LOL!!
am i been cheeky ask if you can send me empty box no pellets so i can put my pellets in i shoot hft or where can i find pellet box cheers .?
Mr chiinnature if you watch from 17.01 ur scales were at 0.2 grain they were set wrong.
Interesting. I did a few tries at my H&N Sport Baracuda Match .177 .69 gram pellets. They all consistently measured .6876 to .6886 grams. I was using my precision digital scale that I used to weigh the gold I would pull out of the ground. Some of that gold needed a scale that measured in the thousandths of a gram.
I'm not sure what how much a few hundredths to thousandths of a gram have on the pellet flight. I imagine that when you are shooting at a target the size of a pencil eraser at 10 meters, those tiny bits of weight can mean the difference between a 10.6 or getting a 9.6. Of course, the primary reason for not hitting the bulls eye is the human factor. Humans can perfect tools that are super accurate, but the human factor is still the ultimate factor in the end.
Good to know mate !
Good to know mate. Thanks. 17:11
+Benedict Benito - Well you only weigh the pellet you use for the day, and that's much less work to do than doing 4000 in a row! LOL! Only weigh the pellets for good guns though, don't waste time on the cheapos, they don't shoot hole to hole no matter what pellet you use anyway
just a little pointer if you are weighing them for the extreme spot on importance, wear gloves or use tweezers as you can add 0.001 of a grain in greece off of your hands
i noticed your scales were showing 0.2 without pellet on scale at 10.40 mins
.
me also so the spread isn't that bad just needs a better scale
This was funny the higher grade pellets were off more than the basic's lol The pro line's are just rejects off the r10 line .
Try zeroing your scales every time you way eatch pellet for a more accurate reading that's what is done in competition 👍
Your digital scales won't be accurate enough at those small weights. Try a precision balance scale.
+DepakoteMeister What are you talking about? Precision balance scale is far less accurate.
Most consumer digital scales are accurate down to the milligram.
For pellet sorting, you want to be able to weigh to 0.01 grains, that's 0.000648 grams ( 0.648 milligrams). Most consumer digital scales I've seen are not accurate down to 1 milligrams anyway, probably because there is absolutely no need for them to be. Now, I have seen consumer scales claiming to be accurate to 10 milligrams, but that's 0.15 grains, so nowhere near accurate enough for pellet weighing! My home-made (not very precision) balance scale can separate a tin of pellets into 10 different weight groups very reliably (which if we take .1 grains as an upper variation of pellet weight in a tin, is 0.01 grains or 0.000648 grams ( 0.648 milligrams). I can then weight a batch of same weight pellets on a consumer digital scale and then divide the result by the number of pellets weighed to reduce the error factor from using inaccurate consumer scales.
+DepakoteMeister Hmm, Ok thanks for correcting and informing me..
No problem buddy.
He no dwug dealer! Coke dangewous high stake game! No use airpistols either!
Dam it.... Now i need a scale
Scale's like this are much more acurate when you place a weight on it, reset to zero and then use with the weight on...
Please try this people and let me know if i'm right or wrong about this ...
Accuwacy of impwessive magnitude! This no chawade!
Hey bro nice videos...... I was always wondering that can u give me only 1 spare pellet box that you use to store 100 R10s....... Even a empty box will do the job....... I want to store the pellets but cannot spend 34 bucks for the box........ Please reply if you want to give away the box of r10s.....
Thx
If one were in need of the slight bump the difference likely made, then the expensive pellets would be the choice.
for the rest of us who don't compete in national events, the cheaper pellets would do well enough for plinking, pesting, hunting or punching paper with friends.
thank you for the review of the expensive pellets !
+Geoffrey Kr 100% correct and thanks for watching!
Seems like the expensive pellets are not that consistent, and balance of the pellets would be hard to measure , meaning the pellets might weigh more one side than the other depending on density, and that would affect how accurate it would be to the target , while spinning after leaving the barrel , humidity of the air the pellets flying through on route to the target ,,, the temperature of the barrel,, when fired ,,, there is a lot of factors to consider in this equation, I won’t go to deep into this , I’m only a thick Englishman with a poor education,, cheers Shane uk 🇬🇧
Maybe your scale needs recalibrated
Looks like weight isn' much a consideration if we trust the expensive claim. Might it be that the expensive box were all resized thr same? Or pellets with same weight are placed next to each other. It wilk help make tighter groups per card.
Gino Punsalan lol, well I have tested a few boxes and they are pretty much accurate to +/- about 0.1 to max 0.2grains difference.. so it's quite good actually.
Chiinnature You have an enviable gun collection there. Do you deal with air rifles or simply collect them?
I also noticed that the peep sights on the Air Arms Biathlon rifle use what appears to be sights used on the Crosman and Daisy Avanti. A beat cheap for a high end rifle don't you think? Hoever, I use the same sights for my 10 meter gun and must admit, they do the job.
Gino Punsalan
Hahaha I just collect and play with them, no business involved. Just purely for enjoyment!
Hi Mak... Jo... Si.... a very revealing video to say the least... it seems the only difference is the protective packaging that prevents dents and dings... the slight weight difference and outrages price disparity..! with some work and sorting on the scale the cheap pellets will do the job... but if you want want micro accuracy just to shoot a flies left nutt the expensive pellets are the way to go... thanks for the informative video....
hahahahaha ya, maybe true for some guns, but when you put it up to a crazy good rifle like the one I will show tonight, price does matter --- or if you are shooting in the Olympic 2014 -- you know, $34 is nothing for 500 shots rewarding a medal, HAHAHAHAHAHA
You need to draw a line from corner to corner of scales to find the centre. Scales like this are not accurate unless you use the same spot on them ..
Nice video Chiinnature, I will say that if you try the Gamo Magnum as the cheap pellet in this comparison you will get better results, I had to buy 2 tins of that pellet because there wasn't anything else at the moment and man if I could use little rocks as pellets could get better results, just in one tin of that crap, there were 4 different diameters, 1st one was so narrow that if you move the barrel vertical the pellet will fall out, the 2nd, well, it will stay in the barrel, the 3rd was tight and the last type was so big that had to push it hard every time, But what about weight? well 5 different weights and differences were at 1.2 grains in some cases. And what about the front shape?, well most of them are pointed at different angles, and the skirt?, no comment. Seriously, get that crap and do another video with the camera close up... Regards.
gino210365 LOL! GAMO is quite well known for their crap pellets. I have tried a few and never buying GAMO pellets again. Sticking to RWS since I am a fan of those. Even the basic diabolo is better than most of the cheaper pellets out there. For price tag, nothing beats Crosman boxes, but they are really dirty, really BLACK!
Hi chii can you sell me a empty box so I can transport my pellets I use r10s get back bud cheers.
first of all, to really measure them you would need to use better scales, those are good enough for measuring are you within the margin of error of the scale, which i guess you did not take into account. Secondly, pretty good? you had almost the same spread with cheap and extra expensive pellets, with no real consistency... so no, this is not good enough, if i am paying premium i expect to get not two groups, but what i actually says that should be in the box. Anyway, i all comes down to the shooter. :) so cheers
+.177shooter Well he didn't measure enough of the cheaper pellets to get a good idea of the spread, but the closeups did show a significant difference in the machining finish quality. But I do agree about the scales, these are good enough to get an indication maybe... but something with more precision would be better to have good confidence. Budget allowing for it I'd opt for one of those fancy ones for chemistry etc with a wind cover that can reliably measure down to a 1 mg (0.001g), nice tools but they kinda start at around 250 euro which is a bit too much for my hobby when I don't care enough and just buy decent pellets instead.
As for what to buy, me personally I've always gone with the good old "have a lot of pellets in storage, shoot a bunch of groups with some of them and see what makes the gun shoot nice groups". If a tin of pellets is highly suspect I'll take some measurements to see if the pellets vary drastically by weight, inspect them visually for damage and if I can really be bothered take some calipers to measure the head and skirt diameters.
Usually though I'm too lazy and if one tin doesn't work I just move on to the rest and set that previous tin aside for other guns that might group nicely with it... or just casual plinking where being a bit off doesn't matter as long as you knock the thing over.
I've found that the digital scales aren't that accurate. I use an RCBS reloading scale and feel a lot more secure when sorting my bullets and pellets
+NotSoDumb um... the digital scale I use is for gunpowder and stuff too, so it is pretty accurate so far
I'm sure your scale is very good and you've been having great luck with it but I'm old school and using a precision powder scale is the only thing I'm comfortable with. I like working to tenths of a grain and every time I've used a digital scale, they are always off. I was just yesterday, weighing a tin of JSB Match Diabolo Jumbo Heavy pellets. The lid said 18.13 gr. My results with the digital scale always said 18 gr. My mechanical scale was giving me 18.05 through 18.18 gr. I made lots of little piles too. I do want you to know how much I love your videos. They've been very good and quite informational. Keep up the good work and thank you for all you do.
+NotSoDumb My digital scale also say up to 3 or 4 digits after the decimal. I think you need to try a new digital scale! LOL! Some gunpowder scale (digital) is very accurate too, and they don't cost a lot either. The number on the lid is also a round up average over a bunch of pellets, never trustworthy... just like FPS readings on the box, hahaha I would like to try a non digital scale one day tho, a good experience!
I'm sure they have digital scales that are as accurate but they do rely on batteries and the sensors can't last forever. I'm aware that the numbers given by the manufactures are averages and I've never seen an airgun do what they claim. That's why people like you and I take the sport more seriously and spend a lot of time, weighing and measuring pellets.
It's time consuming but well worth the effort. Take care my friend and keep making videos.
+NotSoDumb ahahahah yes, we are the FREAKS type in the spot. Manufactures gets a lot of promotion from our videos and comments! hahahah
Truthfully, a lot of the differences you mention do not really affect accuracy that much. With any airgun you have to try a range of different pellets to find the most accurate round for the rifle. Expensive does not equal accuracy in any specific airgun. Sometimes an airgun likes the cheap stuff over the expensive pellets. Grouping spread matters, not pellet cost.
depends on what guns you use. If you use cheap guns, it won't show the different, but if you take a good target rifle, the cheap stuff only works IF you sort them nicely by head shape / size and weight. The expensive pellets save you the time for sorting, and gives you better consistant result. People pay for R10 for a reason, and you don't see people using crappy pellets for a competition either. If you are just sticking to a break barrel like the venom, then of course cheap pellets or expensive pellets don't do much difference. I am talking about a target gun....
Chiinnature People pay for R10 because they think it is expensive, so therefore it must be better. Same often goes with tools and guns. Yet, as seen with both the above expensive often means the name, and not necessarily the usability of the item. In your review of the diabolo pellets, you fail to mention accuracy. Some springers will even put those pellets through the same hole at 25 yards. You poo-pooed the cheapies and then made excuses for the expensive ones when they started showing similar deviancy in grain weight. You then went straight to "ohh how pretty" the expensive ones were. Are we playing barbie or shooting pellets? Accuracy matters, not pretty.
not good for 30$ price difference.
+Cetriem Mmmm for serious competitive airgun guys, they can have a $30 bucks investment in that box of ammo for a champ cup with more $ to come , that is what this type of stuff is designed for
Hi chiinnature, Im a national athlete competing both in 10m and 50m rifle. I think instead of making video about "crazy pellets measuring", why not make a video on the difference between cheaper basic pellets compare to good quality match pellets. Test and show the results too, I think that would be more educative and informational.
And btw, just to let you know.. In competitions especially in the 10m air rifle, as you may have known where the 10 is so small, 1mm does matters like a lot!!! So the quality of the pellets does really effect a lot to the result. There are 4 things to look out for when you wanna go "crazy" about this whole pellet sorting;
1. choose finest brand and grade (example RWS r10+, H&N Finale, Qiang Yuan)
2. the pellet size, both head & skirt will matters
3. weight, same thing like what you did in the vid
4. batch, sometimes different batch have different quality, size and weight
(usually only smallbore shooters will do this)
But the most important thing is, choose which pellet does your rifle love most, every single rifle is unique, some prefer this some prefer that. I also read some comments bellow some people complaining on big cost difference thing, just ignore them.. for your defence, yes it will effect your shooting. I've tried using RWS Meisterkugeln (Yellow tin) and R10, and yes the result is significant (well for target shooters).. But if your just shooting for the sake of fun and just plinking.. who gives a sh!t? Just go get any OK quality once and enjoy your day! :)
Hope my information helps, have a nice day Chiinnature!
PS. Do I personally do this? rarely but nahhhh.. unsorted R10 is good enough for me to win in finals.
so is there weight rules for pellets