Like i said, you cannot defend this trash ending. Eren isn't some psychopath. He doesn't want to destroy the world for no reason. When people say he was a slave to freedom and he's a psychopath, it make him look like a one dimensional villain with no motivations or goals.
That and it completely undermines the strength of his conviction by stripping away his conflict with his own conscience. in 131, when we see him walking through the streets of Marley thinking about what he's about to do to all these innocent people and crying his eyes out in front of Ramzi saying he's sorry for what he's going to do, it makes his decision to go through with the Rumbling so much more impactful because it shows his conviction finally winning over his conscience so he can do what he needs to do to protect his home and his people. Unfortunately, Isayama completely dropped the ball and threw all of Eren's conviction out the window so now, we're left with a pathetic and absolutely worthless bastardization of Eren whining about the thought of his adopted sister (who he's shown no romantic interest in up to this point) ending up with another man.
@@teamtx1578couldnt agree more. The fact that he was so sorry for what he was about to do and still he was going throu with it, that shows how strong his principles were. That conflict was the beauty of Eren and made him a complex and tragic character. With what happens in 139 this gets completly nullified. In one chapter Isayama menaged to destroy the best thing about Aot it's crazy
The cruel beauty if the rumbling was that it was only a response to 2000 years of pain. The millennia long suffering of Ymir, the eons of oppression and conflict, the agony that was brought upon the world by the first Karl Fritz. It is an atrocity, but one brought upon the world to bury this history into the ground.
Imagine saying Eren did not care about Eldia without an ounce of irony. There were a gajillion scenes of him absolutely despising himself for allowing people to die due to the titans no matter how much it was his fault or not. Fucking hell, he breaks down crying in Uprising because he was led to believe all those deaths up to that point were solely his and his dad's fault for stealing the founding titan when it couldn't be further from the truth.
But in the ending he literally stated that HE wanted it Yes at the beginning he killed those titans because he wanted to save paradise and his friends (but still like he said sasha and Hange still died ) and all and in the end just like Walter white he realised that HE wanted it
@@AM17titan If he wanted it so bad then why didn't he finish it? The author was too scared of the backlash to actually have Eren kill his friends, that's why
@@SuperBadadan it’s because his friends would have died If eren had completed 100% and killed his friends then titan powers would have been still active and historia’s cannibalism would have continued on After he gained the full control of the founding titan convincing ymir Armin said in the paths scene that killing 100% would not annihilate wars also hizuru mentioned it that eradicating the world would just shrink it Wars won’t stop
@@SuperBadadan he had the other choice Follow euthanasia plan so that his people will be at peace and the new born babies would not have to suffer the war they were in Because like hizuru or armin said that rumbling would just shrink the world and still war would not stop then why even follow the rumbling and kill innocents as a result ? Even eren had that same ideology like you genocide supporters but armin quickly corrected him that wars would not be over In the end eren realised that like Walter white HE wanted it HE liked it HE wanted to see the sight HE was free while doing it Because when he says that he did the rumbling to protect his friends but in the result his friends itself died he realised that is because he wanted it (Sasha ,Hange and floch)
Nah it actually doesn't. He totally misunderstood a lot of Invaderzz video points, especially the whole concept of "freedom desire" of Eren character, but I give one point to ending haters: ending was so cahotic and confusing and rushed that is very difficult place in order the puzzles of the story and understand Eren actions. But when you make it, it does have sense
@@mp7015 well you're right. AoT had a lot of problems even before final arc. The story itself and his concept was incredibily courageus and ambitious, probably by far (since uprising arc) the most entertaining I've ever seen. But it was really far from perfect, it had a lot of defects and trivial plot solutions, but childish fanboys only wakes up at the end to scream against Eren final character development wich was actually one the best thing of the entire manga, and one of the things that makes AoT much different and much more interesting from other series. Still my favorite series, and probably will always be for the rest of my life
@@alm3368 a nice experiment i would say, its better to try something different than to have fear of the critics. Maybe isayama is not a genous but at least he is an interesting guy i think what do u thing about the love thing, eren-mikasa, ymir-fritzm, eren-historia. In my opinion eren- historia baby could have close the story so much better, to me (with the baby and some relation with her) this could have been the definitive SHONNEN (in many senses), why isayama prefered EM? didnt he waste EH relation, Historia development?
@@mp7015 Eren being in love with Mikasa never bothered or interested me, I think was ok. I've always seen THAT scene in 139 like a normal emotional outburst, a way to put out repressed feelings for years in the last moment he talks with his best friend. I find it ok, but I can understand some ending haters if they were shocked by that and couldn't accept it. The fact that bother me is that a lot of them couldn't accept that scene because they seriously believed Eren-Historia was a real thing. No, it wasn't at all and EH would have been way terrible especially for Historia character. The fact that Historia makes a child with someone useless and unknown like farmer kun is extremely important for her character: it represents her tossic emancipation from the queen role has been assigned to her, and she's been forced to do (I'm not saying she doesn't like be a queen, pay attention). During all the story she has always been Christa, a girl who was terribly affected by the opinion other people had of her and always tried to satisfy people expectations about her, and the fact that she became queen demonstrate that she kept doing that even after his Ymir relationship. By becoming the queen she kept giving the people the image they want to see of her. But she stopped to do that the moment she choosed useless farmer kun to make a child (and next king/queen) instead of the popular founding titan possessor and hero of all paradisians Eren Yeager: she stopped to satisfy people expectations about her, she really stopped to give a shit of what people think of her and finally became to really live for herself and only for that, just like Ymir has always said to her. I mean I didn't like the fact that Historia character was totally ignored in the final arc where she basically does nothing, but her becoming in love with Eren would have been a way more terrible thing than what we got, and a dogshit way to use Historia character. The Ymir-Fritz thing was the main thing I didn't like of the ending, the only important. I mean I understand what Isayama was trying to tell, and at the and it kinda works, but it just seemed forced to me, the only way to justify the fact that Eren would have been stopped, and stopped by Mikasa. I mean AoT never have been a story that put romance and love relationship at the center, it always almost ignored that all the time, and make the Ymir and Mikasa toxic love for Fritz and Eren suddenly the base of the all story right at the end was absolutely too strange and so bad written. I mean he could do that, but he needed to do much more better, deepening way more the Ymir-Fritz relationship and building-up a true parallelism between Ymir and Mikasa (thing that he instead did with Historia during the uprising arc)
It also makes every other characters who loved Eren looking like complete morons if you think about it. Because it is like loving a psycho serial killer for YEARS and still keep loving them after knowing they are psycho killers. Heck, even in breaking bad Walter's family stopped caring for him and rejected him when he became a nutcase even when he had cancer and he was dying and they lived together as a family for years ! But it has been shown that the reason why people love Eren so much is because he cares about other people and saves them or inspires them when he can ( like saving Mikasa and giving her a reason to keep living and protecting Armin from bullies and giving him his confidence back and share a dream with him). A lot of the cadets decided to join the scouts just because how Eren inspired them to care about humanity and not only for themselves (Jean specially). In my opinion if Eren was just a selfish asshole from the beginning, it also reflects badly on other characters and just a lot of scenes stop making sense all together (like sacrificing himself without hesitating for Armin with one leg, or suggesting that Historia eats him in the cave and when he remembered everyone that has died up until then, he also pushed himself to the limits with his hardening abilities to help his people, in court he defended Mikasa and did not really care about himself, in Trost he ONLY stayed because he found out that if he stays he might be able to help military /humanity and he risked his life by staying). Sure, he can have selfish desires like every other human beings, but to destroy the whole world just because he wanted to??? That was not shown in the series.
@@kinin4400 I agree dude! I am saying that IF Eren is a psychopath that just wants to destroy the world a lot of scenes and themes that we saw doesn't make sense.
They have one chance to make everything right, anime is almost upon us, its the last ditch effort to make AOT for what it should have been from the start.
Ah yes its simply in his nature to want to destroy what he hates, the wanting freedom and protecting his freedom part? was just an excuse.. just misunderstood that. Yea, that moment when Eren was stabbing an adult in the throat as an 8 year old and screamed: ''you're animals, its only natural that this is what you deserve!'' that wasn't him proclaiming his honest, deep rage at the terrible fact that the guy was objectively taking someone's freedom away violently and permanently. No no he actually did it just cuz he wanted to so badly! That face of rage? was actually a face of excitement/desire to destroy that which happens to piss him off. I just misunderstood 8 year old Eren like that? silly me, no wonder I got the ending all wrong when being criticial of Eren in it.
Amazing video. You're quickly improving as a content creator. Unlike that 1.5 hr long "Eren Defense" video that drags its feet ("forget what you know", "this video is timeless", "blah blah"), you get right to the point. That rat analogy is SPOT ON! P.S. Love the AnR background music
I still cant believe people watched that 1h30 pretentious video and claim it as gospel. Its so pseudo intellectual its insane. It reeks of elitism and shit. ''Youre wrong I'm right'' and saying everyone who disagrees ''just didnt udnerstand the story''
dude thank you so making this video because im sick of this notion that Eren killed all those people just because as if the whole world wasnt a threat. the final battle against the world before the Alliance came in one of the commanders stated in ch 134 that the world pushed all thier hate onto Paradis and now that evil came back with equal hate and power.
I dont like the idea that eren had no other option but to commit mass genocide it disturbs me because it seems like people are trying to justify eren choice but genocide should never seem like an acceptable option no matter the situation thats why i like this theory because it shows eren as a clear villain that is selfish and greedy it doesn't try to put eren in a good light or as justfied in his actions the way i think it should be
It makes even less sense when you think back to season 1, Pixis asked Eren if he thought humanity would throw aside their differences and unite together against a common threat, and Eren himself said no, Iseyama just didn't care at all anymore.
@@ohsupdom there's irony in a good way and bad way this is done the bad way. If Eren didn't believe that before why does he believe it now? Can that be explained? No it can't because it's an ass pull. Eren could have changed his mind due to character development. But literally everything that happens after he says that actually proves his point correct.
Awesome video, chief. Man, I had never thought about Eren that way, it never even crossed my mind that he could be that kind of monster so thank you for arguing this theory is bs.
There's no such thing as a "Eren did it all for himself" theory. Saying so would be ignoring the layers upon layers of complexity that make up Eren's character. Every major analysis on Eren comes to the same conclusion: That Eren had multiple goals, some of them contradictory, some of the incompatible with the other. He wanted to protect his friends and give them long lives and he also wanted to achieve absolute freedom by reaching the sights he had dreamed of, the sights in Armin's book (Anyone who had seen those things, would be the freest person in the world), and he also wanted the Eldian race to keep existing, as one of his core ideals is that everyone is special from the moment they're born, which is why he rejects Zeke's plan, and he also wanted to eliminate the 13 year curse and all titans from existence. Eren's plan was flawed, as was everyone else's, he started the rumbling with the full intent of exterminating the outside world, but when his friends decided to stop him, he had to compromise one goal to achieve the other. If he completes the rumbling, his friends die and the curse is not lifted, so he decided to sacrifice his own personal freedom to achieve his other goals. Yes, he was dissapointed that humanity still existed beyond the walls, and achieving his own twisted ideal of freedom was a big driving force for him, but it wasn't his only motivation.
@@evanpowers6045 no he wanted to do it for his own selfish reasons was the main point of the video. How is that going over yall heads? Did you miss the entire Reiner segment?????
@@evanpowers6045 no? he couldn't care less about the paradis people, he only cares about his friends. that was made abundantly clear in invaderzz video. invaderzz also argues that eren, like many complex characters, has layers of reasonings for doing what he did, but just that eren's primary reason for doing what he did was his inherent nature. I feel like saintitchief missed a lot of the points presented in invaderzz video. it's not competely one way or another. selfishness exists on a scale. eren's definitely somewhere on the heavier side.
Isayama in an interview told that he didn't like Eren, he liked Jean. So in the end, he took a big dump on Eren, making readers cry from pain, just as he promised... Isayama is lowkey an evil troll, but worse than Tite Kubo.
@@minorka2 Nope, she don't like him like that anyways, that why she's taking him to Eren's grave everyday (continuing to remind him he's second place), and she screams Eren's name while Jean is "allegedly" hitting it from the back. Horseface didn't win shit.
You make very amazing and valid points to counter this theory, honestly at this point I’m so confused as to who Eren’s character really is, because so many arguments support so many theories and it just seems like there are a vast number of different ways it could go, but I think the reason for all the confusion is like you said, poor writing on Isayama’s part, we don’t really get a clear picture as to what Eren’s goals really are, it’s very vague. Plus with how the story ended with the destruction of paradis anyways, it just adds insult to injury. I do believe Eren had reasons for doing what he did besides simply wanting to do it out of nature, I just don’t really know what his main drives were, was it freedom, was it to save his friends, was he being controlled by the founder and attack titans? I also feel like his character had a lot of contradictions, especially towards the end, and I know Isayama is a great writer so he must have intended for Eren to end up a certain person, I just don’t really understand his clear goal the way he wrote it. I may have not been paying close enough attention or am looking in the wrong place or maybe everyone else is kinda confused, but I do want to come to a conclusion that satisfies me. If you or anyone can give your opinions to maybe shed some light on Eren’s character and also the ending of the story including the added pages, I’d love to hear what you have to say. AoT/SnK is by far my favourite anime/manga and I really want a conclusion that sits well with me.
he did it because he was born this way...and born into this world...whatever that means. I swear it's like a cup out to say "he was just born violent deal with it"
You guys really need to stop coz the ending we got is the only logical yet complex ending aot can have,the ending you guys want just reduce eren's character to a "nationalistic psychopath"
In short Eren of chapter 139 was not Eren. He is like a completely different character (Aaron Yogurt lol) and Chapters 138 and 139 look like a Fanfic made by Mikasa.
@@lilmupp875 No you see Isayama only cares about money, So he goes with the shippers because they are the majority of the fandom. Going with the EMtards to see their ships sail and Isayama would get more money.
Eren is selfish but definitely cares about his friends greatly and is an emotional person. That doesn’t kill the theory because he can be selfish in numerous ways but still be protective of his friends. It’s not like he isn’t emotional.
@@basedku1326 Why are you assuming that I am saying that he is a psychopath/sociopath? I don't agree with that view. I would argue that he is selfish in multiple ways and also incredibly protective of his friends' and his freedom. He can still do selfish actions for his idea of freedom and not be a "psychopath"
Excellent analysis, yeah eren was always freedom loving guy he always wanted to be free he remained the same until the end when he just switched his character and became another person,it’s ,like eren Yeager becoming Aron Iceberg in a moment
No, Eren never become another person. He just showed who he really is. Eren was not Eren from the day he knows the future. Eren is at the and completely himself. Leave him show his true emotions.
I don’t understand how you can say Eren is a good character when he himself says he doesn’t know why he’d do what he did but, simply because he wanted to kill everyone really? A great villain has to have a REASON why he wanted to do this. Walter White did because it made him happy, Joker did it because he wanted to spread his ideology, Thanos did because he thinks it’s better for the universe. Now with 139 in mind Eren did it out of pleasure, which is disgusting and it’s bad writing. It also doesn’t make Eren stand out as a character because it makes him like Ted Bundy or any other serial killer Eren didn’t have traumatic events to where it made him want to destroy humanity. Eren apparently was born evil but from this logic Eren simple psychopath. In my opinion Eren’s dialogue on why he would’ve destroyed the earth anyway it should’ve been “I Desired freedom my whole life, I had it in my hands. I didn’t care what was in my way” Chapter 1-131 we were told he had no choice to do this 139 says we’re stupid for believing what the author was telling us, and that Eren was a coward psychopath mass Murderer and we’re somehow supposed to think this is genius? I’m sorry but a villain who doesn’t know why they’d do this other than because he wanted to kill people isn’t good writing for your stories Protagonist/ Villain.
The reason why he doesn't know why he did what he did is 'cause he did it under the influence of Ymir. Eren is a good character, not good, one of the best main characters of all time. Where did you see that Eren did what he did out of pleasure? He was literally crying out loud that he never wanted this. He said himself, if people knew that this is gonna happen, nobody would go to war. Eren is not a psychopath 'cause he did everything that he did out of fear. You firstly do not understand the theory of the future. It says, future cannot be changed. If you see the future and you know what is gonna happen, you will actually do the exact thing that will lead to what you have seen in your vision of future. Everything leads to one point no matter what you do. Eren is not a coward, he had courage to do all this and you say that he was a coward? Man, you could never do the 1% of what he did. He had to kill innocent people, kids, even babies. He didn't want to, but he had to. Understand that. Once more, he did all this under the influcend of Ymir and that is why he said that he didn't know why he did all that. It is what he purely meant. He even accepted his death 'cause he knew what kind of a sin was to kill 80% of the world population. Eren was a person who had a responsibility that he maybe never wanted. He had a duty and he acomplished what he had to acomplish.
@@rambooo1771 Watch Invaderzz his point suggests Eren was a psychopath who did out of pleasure, Eren isn’t one of the best main characters after the ending. He was simply a psychopathic slave who doesn’t know why he did other than he wanted too it’s not well written.
@@rambooo1771 so eren is a fool and Ymir is the evil guy is what I’m getting so eren is now giving the excuse that he was influenced by Ymir that’s dumb because Ymir hasn’t spoke and didn’t have any free will so how did she influence eren makes no sense
Let’s play devils advocate here. I mean pre retcon eren did the rumbling because he wanted to. He does say even if all this was what I wanted. He also apologises to ramzi because when he learned humanity lived outside the walls he was dissapointed and wanted to wipe it all away and create the free world in armins book. Ofc eren also did the rumbling to save paridise too. I mean even in that terrible ch139 eren says he still would have flattened the world if he’s friends didn’t stop him. But oh well. So this theory makes a tiny bit sense it’s 50/50 . Ch 139 eren seems like he did the rumbling because he felt like it and he lost because he was just following the path Ymir set out for him. But most importantly the full 100 percent rumbling was literally the only option for paridise to survive. Isayama wrote the story that literally the only way for paridise to survive was to wipe out the entire outside world.
Fuck me if they release the same manga rumbling arc with all that garbage writing I m gonna go insane. You got some good points saintitchief but its fucking Isayama he gonna finish ruining his own masterperpiece via anime and thats it.
"I'm destroying the world because I want to, am I? Now feel sorry for me, Ramzi 😭😭😭" In trying to defend Eren, this theory only makes Eren look 10,000x worse 🤮
Bruh even if Isayama went on an interview to say that this interpretation of Eren is exactly what he intended to tell with Eren's character in the ending that would not make him a great, complex MC worthy of getting so much praise over at all
I think you guys are missing the point this theory is clearly not trying to portray eren in a good light they are saying eren is selfish and evil you don't put genocide in a good light
@@yutaoGOATsu236 Genocide is bad and a lot of Eren fans acknowledge that too (not all of them are crazy hardcore Yeagerist believe it or not). When they want to see Eren complete the Rumbling with complete conciousness it isn't because they think thats a good thing. Its because this is the natural result caused by generations of hatred so intense that it blocks out any option towards diplomacy for the rest of time. Remember that Eren didn't attack until Willy Tybur got the entire world on his side to see Eldians as devils and proclaimed war on Paradis. Its all framed as a cautionary tale, not as something that should be strived for. However this theory frames it less nuanced than that, as more simple and thats something AOT used to criticize and discredit in its earlier story beats.
@@islandboy9381 i was responding to the first guy saying this theory was trying to defend eren and made him look worse my point was that thats that they aren't trying to make him look good
@@islandboy9381 i understand that most fans know that genocide is bad its the way they frame it that i dont agree with they make it seem like eren had no choice but to do it and had good reason but genocide should never be put in a way where it seems like an option this theory makes it clear that eren is a villain not a good person put in a bad spot and that he chose this option for selfish reasons thats the only acceptable way you should put mass genocide in a story where you make it so its not justfied in any way and the person doing it is clearly evil and selfish it makes it very clear that this is not acceptable it may not be as complex but in my eyes its more acceptable
the fan base is so split on the ending. Everyone agrees AoT was a good series before S4. Some people just cant admit the writing took a huge hit. It’s the author’s job to convey to the reader the feelings of the main character! how does it take multiple 1hr videos to dissect eren’s character?
theories defending eren 9 Months after the ending are based on the hope that people forgot important manga details and characterisations, so that more viewers can eat it up. None of these clowns dropped a video back at chapter 131, 123, 100 and so on, analysing Eren as a character that "never changed" or "genocides the world just for himself". Even if we didn't have all details about Eren's motivations, the fact that no one was describing Eren like ending defenders do now, proves the lack of foreshadowing and poor writing on Isayama's part
All these clowns understood eren just like us when 131 dropped, now people like shash and invaderzz make some mental gymnastics to recontextualize everything of erens development and. Core characteristics pre 131
@@meawiyaothman7872 ,nah that was the only shit moment so powerful that it feels like a joke,the rest of the story is connected ,not the eren Mika ship
@@evanpowers6045 that's one hell of dumb assumption,there are people who hate both side and agree that ending is overhated just coz of clowns like you,I do hate some aspects of it but you guys look like aot is the only piece of literature you've read,coz there are stories with way worse ending than this and i still somewhat like them and aot ending wasn't even that bad,you guys just ruined it for yourself with headcanons, just look at this comment section,it's miserable
At the end of the day Walter Remains one of the most legendary protagonist and antagonist while Eren is now and forever will be known as a cry baby grown man who doesn’t know why he wanted to destroy the whole world.
Eren was presented with multiple options though... 1. Euthanasia plan 2. Let the military police take control of the founding titan 3. Try to broker peace with the outside world somehow, as he summarily rejected in that scene at the shooting range there were probably more that I'm forgetting
I'm not seeing why it would be hard to believe that Eren would struggle at a crossroads between two very conflicting ideals. Reiner had a similar internal conflict, which he 'resolved' by developing a split personality. By contrast, Eren didn't need to split his personality or anything of the sort because he ultimately was, unlike Reiner, capable of committing to one final route. And so what if his final decision makes him more loathsome to you than any other protagonist ever? That sounds like pretty successful writing if that was the intent!
1. Island could still be destroyed 2. Historia sacrificed 3. He did try, and he knew it wouldn't happen. When I said "options" I also said "options that would solve his problems". None of these options solve his problems. Yeah I really love watching a show that makes me hate a character I loved more than any character in history, even purely evil ones, in 1 chapter. Great writing for sure!
@@saintitchief Is a good story obligated to have a utilitarian resolution? Did anyone truly expect anything but an utterly haunting ending to a story with such a disturbing premise and repeated mockery of the audience's attachments throughout?? I know I'd much prefer to have believable characters push toward believable goals, warts and all. Take for instance, Zeke's euthanasia plan, which irl would be bonkers and beyond yikes but works perfectly with his character given the supernaturally gruesome conflict he was born at the center of. His childhood was loveless as a means to an end for Eldians, he had to eat his favorite person in the world in a sense because they were both Eldians. He was even shown to be capable of betraying his own people, specifically his parents, in the past. The predictable self-loathing resulting from Zeke's traumatic upbringing plays perfectly into him advocating for such a nihilistic and self-defeating plan in the end. Unfortunately for Zeke, he didn't secure the power to win. Winning is usually the job of the protagonist, so as expected Eren did just that. And he executed his own fucked up plan, in the stead of several other fucked up or downright impractical plans presented to Eren nearing the end of the story, each reflecting other characters' motives, characters who were ultimately powerless to execute them. Idk man I wouldn't advise having a rule against disconcerting endings. Those really do make some of the best stories. Despite the internal conflicts and contradictions in Eren's thought process, I'd say as long as there's at least one thread of consistency throughout the story, his final decision checks out. Eren was always rather impulsive and sadistic with a heavy in-group bias, and the ending is rather consistent with that.
@@hangukhiphop impulsive and sadistic? lol if you say so man. you and I just see Eren differently, if he was meant to be seen the way you see him then Isayama failed miserably.
@@saintitchief impulsive and sadistic were one of Eren's sides, yes. He's a multifaceted character with internally competing motivations, as any good character has! But don't you remember those times when Eren got carried away with the psycho bloodlust (the times he fought Annie's Titan and the time he told Reiner and Bertholdt he would make sure they die in the most brutal way possible)? He had it in him the whole time and that's the side that won in the end. Favorable? Maybe not, but totally believable.
You invalidated everything invaderzz said in this simple video. I thought invaderzz was just making up his head canon. Love your videos man, they stay to the point and keep things simple and logical instead of just saying bunch of confusing philosophical stuff.
I'm very mixed on both sides. I do like some parts of this theory but understand that even if they were true Isayama is expecting way too much from his readers with giving them such little time to process such big scenes in such short chapters. I just hope the anime either helps establish what Isayama is trying to say or change the ending if Isayama wants to.
Whatever it is, I think we can all agree that too much was left to interpretation and that is not good writing. Leaving a key detail or two to interpretation makes the story more interesting. Leaving the main plot line to be about either nature or nurture up to the interpretation of the reader is bullshit. Needs to be ironed out more
I have no problem with the Jegaerberg theory but we need the god damn thought process where Eren understand he has to die because he's fucked up lol, instead of YmirxFritz bullshit, the AOE needs to address Eren's moment of realisation, but again, the fact that Eren said "I don't know" makes me think Yams don't know what Eren's realisation was supposed to be
Why didn't you mention the cave scene and medal ceremony? If this guy is such a selfish piece of shit, then why would he tell historia to eat him and save everyone with the power of the founder? Why would he punch himself in the face when he realized he can't be a "useless brat" anymore since people's lives depend on him? Why would he say "i would gladly give my life if it could change something" in the medal ceremony? Ofc he has selfish sides to him, but isn't nearly as much as this theory describes him. Either that or isayama changed his writing of eren at the last arc. Which is not far fetched. He already did that prior to the final arc. Look at the difference between hobo eren and man bun eren. Almost 2 completely different characters...
At that point he didn't know who his enemies were. He thought it was titans and was open to give his life to kill them. But when he found out who his enemies were... "When I found out that humanity lived beyond the walls... I... was so dissapointed. I wanted to wipe them all out" (something like that is in chapter 131) He was dissapointed that the world beyond the walls wasn't like in Armin's book and that humans were his enemies. He wanted to kill them all.
True Hobo Eren and Man-bun Eren, as long as Paths Eren all behave differently. It seems that Isayama couldn't decide between writing a matured, stoic main character or a hot-blooded, selfish man-child who sought to flatten the world because "he was dissapointed with the outside world".
@@Kita-zj9zi No He was disappointing they are against letting the eldians be free. At the end of scene three eren said "If we kill all the enemies beyond the see will we finally be free ?"
@Saintitchief I heard rumours that the anime will end at 131; if that is true do you think it would be a at least decent ending or do you think there would be a lot of stuff unresolved?
I don't think he only did it for himself, but he did value himself above his friends in the final decision to do the rumbling, before he sees the entire future
After they adapt 123, only 130 and 131 will be watchable. The rumbling arc was so awful and confusing, that not even altering things in the Anime can make the ending better.
What am I to you was not romantic. Eren asked mikasa that because as we saw in ch138 dream or timeline 1: he was looking for any excuse to run away and not do the rumbling, As he didn’t want to kill everyone and take away their dreams and freedom. If mikasa answered properly and the old man didn’t interrupt he would have ran away with her. Now ch139 heavily infers everything eren did was too get to the future he saw when he kissed historias hand. He was just following the path that was set out for him so mikasa could kill him. He acknowledges in ch131 the future can’t change when he saves ramzi from the bullies almost like the future is set in stone. Whether it’s a retcon or not that’s what ch139 heavily infers. If we don’t get this aoe I’ll never watch or mention aot again
exactly to many people misinterpret that scene as Eren being in love with Mikasa same thing with him running away with her he never did that out of love rather out of a desire to not commit a genocide, however I believe in the anime timeline even if Mikasa tells Eren how she truly feels he still wouldn't run away as his determination to complete the rumbling is far stronger now that he knows it is 100% truly the only way to save Paradis even getting rid of titan powers wouldn't end the outside worlds hatred as we see in the extra pages
While I get the rebuttal, I feel like you missed or misinterpreted a lot of the points of the theory itself. From even the topic. For most of the video you compare eren to Walter, and while I have not watched breaking bad, the way you described it. Walter did it because it was fun and he liked it. This is not what the theory is trying to say, that eren killed everyone because he liked or had fun doing it. He did it because he values his pursuit of freedom more than them. I feel like you definitely misinterpreted what the theory is trying to say about eren. Let me go point by point. Walter vs Eren comparison Your whole first point hinges on the fact that the theory does not work because unlike Walter who had a way out and choose not to take it, eren didn’t have a way out at all. What you were wrong about is the fact that eren DID have a way out. It’s just that throughout the whole point you are assuming that the goal is to save his island when the entire point of the theory is that, saving the island wasn’t the goal. The theory goes that eren goal, other than the corrupted pursuit of freedom is saving his friends and letting them have a happy life. If you think of his goals as that, from the beginning than you can see the many ways he had a way out. From leaving with mikasa, to helping armin and hange make up a plan. To even having the wall titans come out and just scare everyone so they don’t come back for another thousand years. If the goal was just to save his friends, than you can see the fact that he refuses to do these things over and over, why? Not because he had fun doing it, but because it’s in his nature to go after that corrupted pursuit of freedom. he cannot stop himself. Do I think it could be foreshadowed better? Yeah absolutely, but saying all of these other reasons are not enough the only way I would accept it is if isayama wrote this specific thing that I want that needs to happen or else it’s not acceptable is also not a good argument. “Why would he kneel and weep” Because he has empathy. This is the same reason of why Reiner and Bert does it? He knows that he is doing a bad thing, he knows that he shouldn’t go through with it but just like reiner is he going through with it anyway. “Why would he walks on the streets of his future victims, why would he go to Marley at all?” He went to Marley because at that point in the story he still thought as them as enemies. The whole point of this theory is that eren does not have all the answers until the very very end right when he gained the founding titans power. At that point in the story he only saw grisha memories and a few moments of eren memories up until the point of the freedom scene. “Why would he take the time to learn about these people when all he cared about is killing them.” Again a misconception on what the theory is trying to say. The theory isn’t trying to say that eren is a unfeeling monster. The theory is saying that he values his pursuit of freedom more than anything else besides his family period. It does not mean he doesn’t care about everything else. He cares about all of the people that he’s about to kill, he feels bad about it! He values them, he just values his pursuit of freedom MORE. He’s not killing people just for shits and giggles like the joker, he’s doing it to reach his ideas of freedom. The theory IS NOT saying that eren is killing him just because. Eren admits he left 20% alive topic. So your main counter point to this is the fact that “why would eren give up on his primary objective simply because the future said so?” Basically right? That’s simple, there’s two reasons. One is because at THAT point in the story the theory goes that he knew ALL of the future now up to that point. At that, he knew specifically all of it. The second is that he already lived through ALL of the past and the sight basically confirmed that everything was predestined. Can you imagine that? It’s basically someone handing you a script of literally EVERYTHING you did and what you are going to do. There is no fighting against that fact, eren just had to accept it. The points of where you said that it was contradictory to his character, are points in time where the theory goes EREN DID NOT KNOW. He did not know if mikasa would go with him. He did not know if he would truly go with the rumbling which is why he was considering it. That’s the POINT of the theory. That because eren only saw the future through grisha he didn’t actually know every thing that happened until it was too late. So at that point, when he finally gets to read all of it, read the entire script and see that he followed exactly what the script said to a tee and than read the ending, what else can you do but follow it? “It’s not as if he didn’t have the power from killing them.” No, he didn’t have the power to stop them from kill him. Because there is only one thing that he values more than his pursuit of freedom. His friends. Basically at the end of the day he was NEVER going to kill his friends, he was never going to go all the way, because he valued them more. So he would have died because they would have kept fighting until eren would be forced to hold back so they wouldn’t die. Plain and simple. “Why did he celebrate when he destroyed the world?” Because again, he didn’t know the future yet, the theory goes that he got the script after that scene. “He doesn’t know why he just had to do it.” This is good writing. This plays into the nature vs nurture argument that eren and Zeke represents. Eren at birth was ingrained with the constant hunger for the pursuit of freedom. It’s just is, that’s just his nature. He doesn’t know why, or better. The reason why is because he was born into this world. If you don’t like that, that’s fine. But to say it’s bad writing because it’s a commentary on a part of a personality being purely natural and being a slave to that natural will is wrong. It’s good writing. “Eren always acts out of violence as a means to an end.” Like the time where he head butted armin as a kid? Like the time he grabbed mikasa wrist and forced her to the wall and screamed at her. Like the time he immediately went to fight Jean over a argument Like the time where he said he was gonna destroy the world as a titan for no reason while fighting Annie Like the time in the fight with Annie he acted like a a wild animal and almost ate her instinctively instead of a person fighting just for “a means to an end” Like the time where even when he tried to keep calm he couldn’t help but scream and yell at reiner and Bert even though it was the wrong thing to do at the time, he even admitted it. And said he was gonna make them die the worst way possible Like the time where he thought he was useless so he was punching himself over and over Like I’m the school manga which the author specifically said it was their true nature, eren though about causing a world wide apocalypse. Etc, there’s many times where eren was violent just to be violent. Sure, did he direct most of his violent energy to where it was justifiable? Yeah, but there was still many moments where he was just violent. Besides the theory isn’t even trying to say that that he simply did it because he was violent. The theory is saying that he did it because he was born with the nature of constantly pursuing freedom. If people try to take his freedom he won’t hesitate to take there’s. Mikasa confession You are absolutely right, it sucked. At the very least tho, it goes with the theory that eren just learned about the future meaning he didn’t know he was gonna die. So it supports the fact that he’s whinney about the fact that he’s literally about to die and not be with mikasa. But it was severely tone death, out of place, didn’t have a lot of foreshadowing with the relationship and overall bad writing I agree with you. Overall I feel like a majority of your points was you just missing the subject of the theory. You think the theory is about eren being a monster who did everything for shits and giggles. The theory truly is about free will and being a slave to your natural instincts. That eren choose to destroy the world because he was born into this world as someone with a natural drive to pursue this corrupted freedom. That In the end, eren never became free of that will and was forced to die from it.
whether it be “for eren” or “for eren’s nature” its still the same point. the story did not give us enough to believe that eren had other options, and thus, i can never believe he did it for anything other than self preservation. “eren always uses violence as a means to an end” yeah like how he literally did not want to fight the warriors after finding out who they were? the theory does not say eren got the “script” after the freedom panel, he got it way before, when he first teamed up with ymir. ironic how you say im the one who misunderstood things.
@@saintitchief I think that’s subjective. I think that it could have been made better but after looking at all of the evidence it’s enough to believe he did it because it was in his nature. A few cases where eren used violence as a means to an end does not mean that he’s the type of character that ALWAYS uses violence as a means to an end. I’m not trying to say that he never uses it as a means to an end as well I’m just saying that the argument that eren isn’t violent just to be violence is untrue. Anyways as I said before, that wasn’t even the point of the theory. Also you’re correct, my bad about the freedom panel thing. What actually happened was that he gained the memories when he got the founding titan and worked together with ymir like you said. That doesn’t actually change anything since that’s still after all of the “contradictions” that you brought up. My points still stands. Just a little note tho, I watched your other longer video of you reacting to the entire video and I think your point about why didn’t eren try at all to convince mikasa and armin makes more sense than anything this video said. While I still think this is the best theory yet of the actual story, that part doesn’t make a lot of sense.
The story felt like it seltled it's thoughts regarding nature vs nurture and freewill (determinism and such) during the path chapters. The chapters really felt as if it was isayamas climax on the ideals and the best part was that it felt like it was all just him reinforcing what he had already implied about how he feels about these ideals (shown through Erens whole character beforehand basically). It made it all feel sooo incredibly powerful and climatic to me as a result (and I'm sure many other readers as well).
11:55 Maybe we can say Eren is not a rat he is intelligent, he could have decided the less worst option even if it meant giving up who he is. But eren is eren and he couldnt do this.
All the eramika defender and the fans defender of the Manga ending they always Said: Eren do the rumbling because he want to protect his friends and he want his friends to be a heros and he want to his friends to live Long live and Eren Kruger he said protect Armin and Mikasa) let's say Eren in the Manga timeline perspective he protect Armin and Mikasa and his friends to live Long live but why he didn't Love someone inside the walls and paradise island get destroyed and the history repeat it self and the mistake repeat it self this Eren from the manga Timeline perspective and eramika defender and the defender of the Manga ending they Love him so much But Eren in the anime time line perspective he will love someone inside the walls and not repeat the same history and the same mistake and a achieve a true freedom and broke the titan course and hellucgiena and a achieve a true freedom for his own self for the people of paradise island
The story gives him no OPTION due to the situation...presented to him, the Mikasa confession is fine, ..but it does not work if eren hasn't accomplished anything, the story does not show what eren has accomplished , no side gives a definite answer The Mikasa confession would have worked if Eren was shown some PROOF like accomplish something Hense the Yeagerburg theory makes a lot more sence But it does retcon season 3 part 1 major events
"Eren is a crazy psycho who killed people for the lulz and because he just wanted no people." isn't the claim that is being made with the Jaegerberg theory/comparison. The idea is that Eren is fundamentally obsessed with the base idea of an incredibly deranged idea of freedom, and when he sees that people have freedom and he doesn't, he willingly takes theirs for his own, even if that extends to the entire world. He was so emotionally broken and enraged by seeing that the sea he had desired to see his entire life was just another wall in the way of his pursuit of freedom that he was willing to annihilate people to achieve freedom, even if it was ultimately a false, ephemeral version of it. Eren is not operating for teh lulz and because he's just a naturally crazy psychopath, he wants to destroy the world because he wasn't free in it, and this drives him as opposed to Paradis or his friends. He allowed his friends to stop him because he refused to take their freedom in the process. I don't agree or disagree with this theory, I think it's a valid way to view the character but not one that I fully agree with.
Walter did regret killing people or people dying from his work. He just grew more numb to it and regretted it less as he went on. And I think you could argue like Walter, Eren hasn’t admitted his true drive to himself.
Wow you are really eloquent!! Ngl, I had a bias against you cuz you supported Aotnr and I believe it is abysmally written (an ending where Eren completes the Rumbling can still be fantastic but that fic wasn't it, imo) Anyways, I think only think common between Eren and Walt is a selfish desire (Eren's is more innane- the chapter in which he plugs the wall and thinks about the outside World is legit called 'primitive desire') that doesn't undermine the fact that they had other reasons. Walt did care for his family and Eren did care for his friends and Paradis. Also, I don't think the assumption that there were NO other options to protect Paradis is correct. There was one. Eren went out of his way to close it off-the 50 year plan. Is sacrificing Historia that bad a deal if it ensures that Threat of Rumbling remains as a deterrent and Paradis is given a window space of around 50 years to develop and forge alliances with nations like Hizuru (And other nations that Marley crushed, whose volunteers helped Paradis develop from a primitive state to a pseudo-modern nation in around 5 years). Ofcourse the hatred won't go away, ofcourse most of the world would still be terrified....but it would be a North Korea like situation for Paradis, a presence of world ending weapon would've kept the enemies at bay. But it just isn't in Eren's nature to accept this solution because this is a begrudging compromise. This isn't freedom. There would still be walls. The status quo would still exists and more than that, he would die in 5 years passing down the burden of His Titan to one of his friends and Historia would continue the tradition of the royal blood line being used as 'weapon of war', from which he SAW Hisu break away and greatly admired her for it. Imo, it's micro vs macro perspective...being in Eren's position, maybe I too wouldn't have accepted a deal that while protected my 'people' came at the cost of lives of my friends.
The 50 year plan was another option, so was the euthanasia plan. What I meant was, there was no other option that would have definitely made 100% sure that his friends (including Historia) were safe. For Walter, he was given multiple options that would have 100% made sure his family was taken care of, and he declined them. This proves that this was not his primary motivation. Eren never got this opportunity, therefore, it makes it hard for me to believe that he did what he did primarily for himself.
@@saintitchief But looking it at that way too, he's still pretty selfish. He prioritized the lives of his friends over a solution that practically made the most sense for the Island (eventhough it came at the cost of Hisu and him passing down his Titan after what he believed, was doing nothing) I think apart from the 'I wanted it' aspect a layer to Eren's character is that he wants to be the one to bring change and seeing so many people sacrifice themselves for him (Humanity's hope), really exaggerated this burden. Anyways, all of this would've been clearer if Isayama just gave him more povs in the Rumbling arc. The prioritization in that arc is a mess. But Yeah, the Walter comparisons don't make much sense since he didn't relish the power, a sense of control, wasn't narcissistic and didn't try to excuse his actions. He was also very self loathing.
@@kritikasrivastava530 How can you call that selfish just because he doesn’t want to subject one of his closest friends to certain death and being a breeding cow? That’s not selfish at all. Eren “wanting” to be the one to bring change is not true either, he was openly willing to give his Titan to Historia and die in that cave. This is not his character either.
@@saintitchief idk man, choosing your friends over the World is selfish. People in position of power are expected to make personal sacrifices, be used as tool; Historia either by her choice or forced doesn't matter- was the queen of the country- a selfless decision on both her and Eren's part would be to concede to a role made for her. But AoT has always been a story of people defying the norms, being selfish even when the world goes to shit because of it. Being selfish when the world demands personal sacrifices isn't bad-I dunno why people hate the term. Eren was suicidal in the cave because he just learned his father slaughtered a family including little children- had more to do with his self earth being shattered that he isn't 'special' or the 'chosen one'. This was never meant to show us how self sacrificial Eren could be, just that how a wallowing guilt deviated him from the person he was. He legit says 'I hated the Titans but I subconsciously accepted being one because I thought I was chosen for this. So many people died for me and I accepted it because I thought it's how it us meant to be' His self worth, pride in being 'chosen' as the hope of humanity is shattered. This leads to the Bystander chapter and Carla's words resonate to him, restoring his self worth and conviction in being 'born to this world' and hence not needing to be special for any other reason.
@Manvëru Yeah if I needed to see a raving nationalist doing a Genocide solely for his homeland, I'd revisit Floch's arc. Eren was not Eren in Aotnr, he was just the Paradis hero, y'all want him to be. His freedom, the way he's explored in the story is so unique and I don't want to see a cardboard cutout 'no choice but to do this for mah people' guy when I have an unhinged, freedom seeking 'I had many choices but I chose this path because I wanted it' Eren. Thank You.
Guys, I have a question. How can you blame Eren for anything? He did what he did 'cause he had no other choice and also 'cause there was actually no other solution. But, how can anybody say that he is a bad person? You can say whatever you want, Eren is for a reason one of the best main characters of all time and no one can prove different.
@@rickrossstagedive3490 It is easy to take it out of the context. What you just said is just stupid. So, your logic, if the world is threatening my homeland, I should sit and watch, 'cause if I have power to kill them and I do, I'm a bad person. Who the fuck gives a fuck if you are a bad person if you defend your people? You are the hero for them, your people and that is the only thing that matters. Grow up, learn how the war works and then post stupid comments with no sense.
Yo if anyone wants another Isayama clue, in the trailer Eren and zeke touch foreheads and they are switched sides from the manga. I find it it really weird as hell.If there is a chance for third timeline ending in the anime its fucking now
@@InsaniaTHEGREATONE I think the actual reason why they are stopping at chapter 131 is obviously due to the workload of what's to come but also for isayama to step in and guide them through his final product ( aoe )
i will try to refuse u, i hope u read its as u say at the beginning EREN DO IT BECAUSE HE WANTED ('something'), but your forgotten that what he wanted was freedom for himself and his friends. 5:25 (- 6:40) EREN WAS NOT GIVEN OTHER CHOICE ????? try any other option besides rumbling its of course a gamble and need hard choices, u may could say a bad gamble but u cant say there isnt other options. - historia was doomed, the most likely is that historia and her children would have to be sacrified, eren had to renounce to historia -why it seems like if eren didnt have another choice? cause in those chapters the show was testing us, in this point the show can close well -Eren cant know if the island will survive after his death, eldia destroyed is not his fault in the sense that he doesnt know for sure nothing about events after his dead An important difference here that ur not considering is that walter had easy ways to do what is moral rigth, for eren was TOO HARD, there werent 'easy' solutions. I LOVE UR WORK but ur the wrong in these arguments, in some arguments ur being a little simplistic
10:22 Eren was not pretending, it was real. He put his freedoom over the world but not over his friends freedom. Eren just stop because he knew his friends were going to fight him and they arrived before he ends the rumnling. So to achieve his goal (freedom for himself and his friends) the only choice left was to loose and do his friends heroes.
@@tejaybee4737 very likely they lived almost all their life without a direct war conflict. The other options left were to live waiting the attack of the whole world because they refused to rumbling
@@tejaybee4737 their friends decide and choice to stop rumbling so its their decision to live with 20 per, eren 'd have end it if they'd have stay on the island. At least at the end eren gave them a more realistic opportunity to survive but the world never found peace.
I dont like the idea that eren had no other option but to commit mass genocide it disturbs me because it seems like people are trying to justify eren choice but genocide should never seem like an acceptable option no matter the situation thats why i like this theory because it shows eren as a clear villain that is selfish and greedy it doesn't try to put eren in a good light or as justfied in his actions the way i think it should be
That's how the story was presented, and it was logical for what Isayama had built. Changing the ending to make Eren worse than he was and shoehorning a love plot at the last minute isn't good writing. You could make the argument that Eren was selfish for choosing his friends and freedom over the world, but would you let everyone you care about die for some people you don't know?
"jaegerberg theory bad because its psychotic and disgusting" oh well ok buddy. nobody said you had to actually like the villains character on a personal level because that's literally how villains operate. if you're disgusted by eren's actions and view them as psychotic then i think that isayama did a good job at making him a compelling villain in the post timeskip. almost like how griffith is still a good villain despite being a "psychotic and disgusting" character and just because his character is like that doesn't really make a story bad at least in my eyes.
yeah but then he tries to have us mourn someone so disgusting and feel bad for him? no. “to the boy who sought freedom, goodbye “ more like the boy who sought to destroy the earth for no fucking reason lol trash
The music tho 💥, please where did you get it??
th-cam.com/video/67Kh2K83HAQ/w-d-xo.html
@@saintitchief yo
I think all this would have been avoided if eren just had not to cry about mikasa
@@mackmenezes4912 It still would be shit
@@shinixgamitm8315 nope it wouldn't becoz atleast eren's character dosent change
@@mackmenezes4912 So eren straight up giving up without any reason doesn't change his character ?
Like i said, you cannot defend this trash ending. Eren isn't some psychopath. He doesn't want to destroy the world for no reason. When people say he was a slave to freedom and he's a psychopath, it make him look like a one dimensional villain with no motivations or goals.
That and it completely undermines the strength of his conviction by stripping away his conflict with his own conscience. in 131, when we see him walking through the streets of Marley thinking about what he's about to do to all these innocent people and crying his eyes out in front of Ramzi saying he's sorry for what he's going to do, it makes his decision to go through with the Rumbling so much more impactful because it shows his conviction finally winning over his conscience so he can do what he needs to do to protect his home and his people. Unfortunately, Isayama completely dropped the ball and threw all of Eren's conviction out the window so now, we're left with a pathetic and absolutely worthless bastardization of Eren whining about the thought of his adopted sister (who he's shown no romantic interest in up to this point) ending up with another man.
@@teamtx1578couldnt agree more. The fact that he was so sorry for what he was about to do and still he was going throu with it, that shows how strong his principles were. That conflict was the beauty of Eren and made him a complex and tragic character. With what happens in 139 this gets completly nullified. In one chapter Isayama menaged to destroy the best thing about Aot it's crazy
episode 77
The cruel beauty if the rumbling was that it was only a response to 2000 years of pain.
The millennia long suffering of Ymir, the eons of oppression and conflict, the agony that was brought upon the world by the first Karl Fritz.
It is an atrocity, but one brought upon the world to bury this history into the ground.
Imagine saying Eren did not care about Eldia without an ounce of irony. There were a gajillion scenes of him absolutely despising himself for allowing people to die due to the titans no matter how much it was his fault or not. Fucking hell, he breaks down crying in Uprising because he was led to believe all those deaths up to that point were solely his and his dad's fault for stealing the founding titan when it couldn't be further from the truth.
But in the ending he literally stated that HE wanted it
Yes at the beginning he killed those titans because he wanted to save paradise and his friends (but still like he said sasha and Hange still died ) and all and in the end just like Walter white he realised that HE wanted it
@@AM17titan If he wanted it so bad then why didn't he finish it? The author was too scared of the backlash to actually have Eren kill his friends, that's why
@@SuperBadadan it’s because his friends would have died
If eren had completed 100% and killed his friends then titan powers would have been still active and historia’s cannibalism would have continued on
After he gained the full control of the founding titan convincing ymir
Armin said in the paths scene that killing 100% would not annihilate wars also hizuru mentioned it that eradicating the world would just shrink it
Wars won’t stop
@@AM17titanYou proved yourself wrong. Eren had no other choice than to go through with the rumbling.
@@SuperBadadan he had the other choice
Follow euthanasia plan so that his people will be at peace and the new born babies would not have to suffer the war they were in
Because like hizuru or armin said that rumbling would just shrink the world and still war would not stop then why even follow the rumbling and kill innocents as a result ?
Even eren had that same ideology like you genocide supporters but armin quickly corrected him that wars would not be over
In the end eren realised that like Walter white
HE wanted it
HE liked it
HE wanted to see the sight
HE was free while doing it
Because when he says that he did the rumbling to protect his friends but in the result his friends itself died he realised that is because he wanted it (Sasha ,Hange and floch)
Finally an Eren analysis video that is less than 1 1/2 hr and gets to the point
Nah it actually doesn't. He totally misunderstood a lot of Invaderzz video points, especially the whole concept of "freedom desire" of Eren character, but I give one point to ending haters: ending was so cahotic and confusing and rushed that is very difficult place in order the puzzles of the story and understand Eren actions. But when you make it, it does have sense
@@alm3368 isayama always had this kind of problem, the way he tells a story always was strange, sométimes not nice or kind storytelling
@@mp7015 well you're right. AoT had a lot of problems even before final arc. The story itself and his concept was incredibily courageus and ambitious, probably by far (since uprising arc) the most entertaining I've ever seen. But it was really far from perfect, it had a lot of defects and trivial plot solutions, but childish fanboys only wakes up at the end to scream against Eren final character development wich was actually one the best thing of the entire manga, and one of the things that makes AoT much different and much more interesting from other series. Still my favorite series, and probably will always be for the rest of my life
@@alm3368 a nice experiment i would say, its better to try something different than to have fear of the critics. Maybe isayama is not a genous but at least he is an interesting guy i think
what do u thing about the love thing, eren-mikasa, ymir-fritzm, eren-historia. In my opinion eren- historia baby could have close the story so much better, to me (with the baby and some relation with her) this could have been the definitive SHONNEN (in many senses), why isayama prefered EM? didnt he waste EH relation, Historia development?
@@mp7015 Eren being in love with Mikasa never bothered or interested me, I think was ok. I've always seen THAT scene in 139 like a normal emotional outburst, a way to put out repressed feelings for years in the last moment he talks with his best friend. I find it ok, but I can understand some ending haters if they were shocked by that and couldn't accept it. The fact that bother me is that a lot of them couldn't accept that scene because they seriously believed Eren-Historia was a real thing. No, it wasn't at all and EH would have been way terrible especially for Historia character. The fact that Historia makes a child with someone useless and unknown like farmer kun is extremely important for her character: it represents her tossic emancipation from the queen role has been assigned to her, and she's been forced to do (I'm not saying she doesn't like be a queen, pay attention). During all the story she has always been Christa, a girl who was terribly affected by the opinion other people had of her and always tried to satisfy people expectations about her, and the fact that she became queen demonstrate that she kept doing that even after his Ymir relationship. By becoming the queen she kept giving the people the image they want to see of her. But she stopped to do that the moment she choosed useless farmer kun to make a child (and next king/queen) instead of the popular founding titan possessor and hero of all paradisians Eren Yeager: she stopped to satisfy people expectations about her, she really stopped to give a shit of what people think of her and finally became to really live for herself and only for that, just like Ymir has always said to her. I mean I didn't like the fact that Historia character was totally ignored in the final arc where she basically does nothing, but her becoming in love with Eren would have been a way more terrible thing than what we got, and a dogshit way to use Historia character. The Ymir-Fritz thing was the main thing I didn't like of the ending, the only important. I mean I understand what Isayama was trying to tell, and at the and it kinda works, but it just seemed forced to me, the only way to justify the fact that Eren would have been stopped, and stopped by Mikasa. I mean AoT never have been a story that put romance and love relationship at the center, it always almost ignored that all the time, and make the Ymir and Mikasa toxic love for Fritz and Eren suddenly the base of the all story right at the end was absolutely too strange and so bad written. I mean he could do that, but he needed to do much more better, deepening way more the Ymir-Fritz relationship and building-up a true parallelism between Ymir and Mikasa (thing that he instead did with Historia during the uprising arc)
Eren couldn't decide whether to pull a Lelouch or pull a Walter. In the end, he pulled a Mordecai!!
Spot on😂
That rat analogy was spot on holy fuck
And the whining/crying points amen
agreed!!
It also makes every other characters who loved Eren looking like complete morons if you think about it. Because it is like loving a psycho serial killer for YEARS and still keep loving them after knowing they are psycho killers. Heck, even in breaking bad Walter's family stopped caring for him and rejected him when he became a nutcase even when he had cancer and he was dying and they lived together as a family for years ! But it has been shown that the reason why people love Eren so much is because he cares about other people and saves them or inspires them when he can ( like saving Mikasa and giving her a reason to keep living and protecting Armin from bullies and giving him his confidence back and share a dream with him). A lot of the cadets decided to join the scouts just because how Eren inspired them to care about humanity and not only for themselves (Jean specially). In my opinion if Eren was just a selfish asshole from the beginning, it also reflects badly on other characters and just a lot of scenes stop making sense all together (like sacrificing himself without hesitating for Armin with one leg, or suggesting that Historia eats him in the cave and when he remembered everyone that has died up until then, he also pushed himself to the limits with his hardening abilities to help his people, in court he defended Mikasa and did not really care about himself, in Trost he ONLY stayed because he found out that if he stays he might be able to help military /humanity and he risked his life by staying). Sure, he can have selfish desires like every other human beings, but to destroy the whole world just because he wanted to??? That was not shown in the series.
eren isnt a psychopath did u even read the manga
@@kinin4400 I agree dude! I am saying that IF Eren is a psychopath that just wants to destroy the world a lot of scenes and themes that we saw doesn't make sense.
Yeah I agree, Eren was not a selfish person, he was just put into an extremely difficult series of situations, in which there were no perfect choices.
Which is why the final arc becoming a shōnen, "genocide baad!", arc is fucking bollocks!
ALMOST NEVER THERE ARE PERFECT CHOICES, Eren was selfish in the sense that he put his freedom and his friends over the world
@@alexvaughan1013 im not saying eren could have solve the eldian problem but the correct was to giving up on his dream, and pass the titan in 4 years
People that say eren wasn’t selfish are deluded closeted weirdos.
@@Musashi139 Sounds like projection.
They have one chance to make everything right, anime is almost upon us, its the last ditch effort to make AOT for what it should have been from the start.
Mappa please serve us right. Isayama has 1 chance and that's the anime if he follows chapter by chapter ain't no one gonna be watching that shit.
@@dripmonke6112
nah they already butchered the show before the final chapter dropped… its called “Halfbaked CGI”
@@marshalsoult3860 The CGI in part 2 will be alot better as shown in the trailer. Part 1 was bonk but it will definitely be better.
@@dripmonke6112
so they butchered it already…
no amount of god tier animation will save this series reputation
@@marshalsoult3860 They butchered the manga but the anime has a chance to be different.
Ah yes its simply in his nature to want to destroy what he hates, the wanting freedom and protecting his freedom part? was just an excuse.. just misunderstood that. Yea, that moment when Eren was stabbing an adult in the throat as an 8 year old and screamed: ''you're animals, its only natural that this is what you deserve!'' that wasn't him proclaiming his honest, deep rage at the terrible fact that the guy was objectively taking someone's freedom away violently and permanently.
No no he actually did it just cuz he wanted to so badly! That face of rage? was actually a face of excitement/desire to destroy that which happens to piss him off. I just misunderstood 8 year old Eren like that? silly me, no wonder I got the ending all wrong when being criticial of Eren in it.
Amazing video. You're quickly improving as a content creator. Unlike that 1.5 hr long "Eren Defense" video that drags its feet ("forget what you know", "this video is timeless", "blah blah"), you get right to the point. That rat analogy is SPOT ON!
P.S. Love the AnR background music
I still cant believe people watched that 1h30 pretentious video and claim it as gospel. Its so pseudo intellectual its insane. It reeks of elitism and shit. ''Youre wrong I'm right'' and saying everyone who disagrees ''just didnt udnerstand the story''
love these analyses. i feel less alone in my confusion about the ending while still loving the world and characters.
dude thank you so making this video because im sick of this notion that Eren killed all those people just because as if the whole world wasnt a threat. the final battle against the world before the Alliance came in one of the commanders stated in ch 134 that the world pushed all thier hate onto Paradis and now that evil came back with equal hate and power.
I dont like the idea that eren had no other option but to commit mass genocide it disturbs me because it seems like people are trying to justify eren choice but genocide should never seem like an acceptable option no matter the situation thats why i like this theory because it shows eren as a clear villain that is selfish and greedy it doesn't try to put eren in a good light or as justfied in his actions the way i think it should be
@@yutaoGOATsu236 the manga did a bad job at showing that he had other options.
Missed your videos, your arguments are still the best I see when it concerns Attack on titan
It makes even less sense when you think back to season 1, Pixis asked Eren if he thought humanity would throw aside their differences and unite together against a common threat, and Eren himself said no, Iseyama just didn't care at all anymore.
No that's literally the point. It's irony...
Armin also fails to "prove he is not a devil" immediately before that scene with Pixis
@@ohsupdom there's irony in a good way and bad way this is done the bad way. If Eren didn't believe that before why does he believe it now? Can that be explained? No it can't because it's an ass pull. Eren could have changed his mind due to character development. But literally everything that happens after he says that actually proves his point correct.
Awesome video, chief. Man, I had never thought about Eren that way, it never even crossed my mind that he could be that kind of monster so thank you for arguing this theory is bs.
There's no such thing as a "Eren did it all for himself" theory. Saying so would be ignoring the layers upon layers of complexity that make up Eren's character. Every major analysis on Eren comes to the same conclusion: That Eren had multiple goals, some of them contradictory, some of the incompatible with the other. He wanted to protect his friends and give them long lives and he also wanted to achieve absolute freedom by reaching the sights he had dreamed of, the sights in Armin's book (Anyone who had seen those things, would be the freest person in the world), and he also wanted the Eldian race to keep existing, as one of his core ideals is that everyone is special from the moment they're born, which is why he rejects Zeke's plan, and he also wanted to eliminate the 13 year curse and all titans from existence. Eren's plan was flawed, as was everyone else's, he started the rumbling with the full intent of exterminating the outside world, but when his friends decided to stop him, he had to compromise one goal to achieve the other. If he completes the rumbling, his friends die and the curse is not lifted, so he decided to sacrifice his own personal freedom to achieve his other goals.
Yes, he was dissapointed that humanity still existed beyond the walls, and achieving his own twisted ideal of freedom was a big driving force for him, but it wasn't his only motivation.
Eren only had 2 goals Invaderzz video is saying Eren destroyed the earth simply because he wanted to kill people.
Eren didn’t have to kill his friends to complete the rumbling he could’ve simply sent them into paths
@@evanpowers6045 no he wanted to do it for his own selfish reasons was the main point of the video. How is that going over yall heads? Did you miss the entire Reiner segment?????
@@Musashi139 Is that why he told all the Eldians that his goal was to protect the people of Paradise but I guess that was a lie too 😂
@@evanpowers6045 no? he couldn't care less about the paradis people, he only cares about his friends. that was made abundantly clear in invaderzz video. invaderzz also argues that eren, like many complex characters, has layers of reasonings for doing what he did, but just that eren's primary reason for doing what he did was his inherent nature. I feel like saintitchief missed a lot of the points presented in invaderzz video. it's not competely one way or another. selfishness exists on a scale. eren's definitely somewhere on the heavier side.
If the yeagerburg theory is true Eren is a terrible character and person while Walter remains as a legendary character
Isayama in an interview told that he didn't like Eren, he liked Jean. So in the end, he took a big dump on Eren, making readers cry from pain, just as he promised... Isayama is lowkey an evil troll, but worse than Tite Kubo.
@@subarusama5673 in the end Jean got the girl anyways
yeah pretty much. still a good villain though at least.
Walter White and Lelouch be laughing so hard right now.
@@minorka2 Nope, she don't like him like that anyways, that why she's taking him to Eren's grave everyday (continuing to remind him he's second place), and she screams Eren's name while Jean is "allegedly" hitting it from the back. Horseface didn't win shit.
You make very amazing and valid points to counter this theory, honestly at this point I’m so confused as to who Eren’s character really is, because so many arguments support so many theories and it just seems like there are a vast number of different ways it could go, but I think the reason for all the confusion is like you said, poor writing on Isayama’s part, we don’t really get a clear picture as to what Eren’s goals really are, it’s very vague. Plus with how the story ended with the destruction of paradis anyways, it just adds insult to injury. I do believe Eren had reasons for doing what he did besides simply wanting to do it out of nature, I just don’t really know what his main drives were, was it freedom, was it to save his friends, was he being controlled by the founder and attack titans? I also feel like his character had a lot of contradictions, especially towards the end, and I know Isayama is a great writer so he must have intended for Eren to end up a certain person, I just don’t really understand his clear goal the way he wrote it. I may have not been paying close enough attention or am looking in the wrong place or maybe everyone else is kinda confused, but I do want to come to a conclusion that satisfies me. If you or anyone can give your opinions to maybe shed some light on Eren’s character and also the ending of the story including the added pages, I’d love to hear what you have to say. AoT/SnK is by far my favourite anime/manga and I really want a conclusion that sits well with me.
It'd easier just to forget about chapter 139 when you do that Erens goals is a lot clearer and makes sense for the rest of story.
he did it because he was born this way...and born into this world...whatever that means. I swear it's like a cup out to say "he was just born violent deal with it"
Eren was down to have historia eat him so that she could end the titans. Why do people say he doesn't care about people outside of his friends?
Hopefully we get an anime only ending that can shut these theories up
Hopefully not if its like any of the fanmade endings 💀
You guys really need to stop coz the ending we got is the only logical yet complex ending aot can have,the ending you guys want just reduce eren's character to a "nationalistic psychopath"
@@Sanguinnius Invaderzz video says Eren is a psychopath due to his own nature
@@Sanguinnius this ending and dumb explanation of dumb people , reduces his character to a coward psychopath mass Murderer ....
@@Sanguinnius fr
In short Eren of chapter 139 was not Eren. He is like a completely different character (Aaron Yogurt lol) and Chapters 138 and 139 look like a Fanfic made by Mikasa.
It's is made by EMtards.
You guys are beyond help seriously
@@Sanguinnius So you think 138 and 139 fit perfectly in the story? Eren has not shown any feelings for Mikasa in all the chapters before.
@@dripmonke6112 emtards wrote 138 and had it published for isyama?
@@lilmupp875 No you see Isayama only cares about money, So he goes with the shippers because they are the majority of the fandom. Going with the EMtards to see their ships sail and Isayama would get more money.
I still think this ending is shit. It doesn't matter if its more well explained, I wouldn't have been satisfied with this.
uh... he pretty much shits on the theory though...
@@jeffpenus9201 im not disagreeing with saint, though the theory is a solid one, its just not one i'd be satisfied with. this is my personal take.
100% well said. Eren being able to make friends & loving others also kill there theorie
Eren is selfish but definitely cares about his friends greatly and is an emotional person. That doesn’t kill the theory because he can be selfish in numerous ways but still be protective of his friends. It’s not like he isn’t emotional.
@@red.4712 psychopaths/sociopaths can't form genuine bonds, only relationship for manipulation, which betrays his entire "freedom" persona.
@@basedku1326 Why are you assuming that I am saying that he is a psychopath/sociopath? I don't agree with that view. I would argue that he is selfish in multiple ways and also incredibly protective of his friends' and his freedom. He can still do selfish actions for his idea of freedom and not be a "psychopath"
You had me at Jeagerberg!
Excellent analysis, yeah eren was always freedom loving guy he always wanted to be free he remained the same until the end when he just switched his character and became another person,it’s ,like eren Yeager becoming Aron Iceberg in a moment
No, Eren never become another person. He just showed who he really is. Eren was not Eren from the day he knows the future. Eren is at the and completely himself. Leave him show his true emotions.
This channel gives me life.
This is so true, if this theory is right then I wuld hate Eren and 139 even more than I do now and I don't get the point of it
I don’t understand how you can say Eren is a good character when he himself says he doesn’t know why he’d do what he did but, simply because he wanted to kill everyone really? A great villain has to have a REASON why he wanted to do this. Walter White did because it made him happy, Joker did it because he wanted to spread his ideology, Thanos did because he thinks it’s better for the universe. Now with 139 in mind Eren did it out of pleasure, which is disgusting and it’s bad writing. It also doesn’t make Eren stand out as a character because it makes him like Ted Bundy or any other serial killer Eren didn’t have traumatic events to where it made him want to destroy humanity. Eren apparently was born evil but from this logic Eren simple psychopath. In my opinion Eren’s dialogue on why he would’ve destroyed the earth anyway it should’ve been “I Desired freedom my whole life, I had it in my hands. I didn’t care what was in my way” Chapter 1-131 we were told he had no choice to do this 139 says we’re stupid for believing what the author was telling us, and that Eren was a coward psychopath mass Murderer and we’re somehow supposed to think this is genius? I’m sorry but a villain who doesn’t know why they’d do this other than because he wanted to kill people isn’t good writing for your stories Protagonist/ Villain.
The reason why he doesn't know why he did what he did is 'cause he did it under the influence of Ymir. Eren is a good character, not good, one of the best main characters of all time. Where did you see that Eren did what he did out of pleasure? He was literally crying out loud that he never wanted this. He said himself, if people knew that this is gonna happen, nobody would go to war. Eren is not a psychopath 'cause he did everything that he did out of fear. You firstly do not understand the theory of the future. It says, future cannot be changed. If you see the future and you know what is gonna happen, you will actually do the exact thing that will lead to what you have seen in your vision of future. Everything leads to one point no matter what you do. Eren is not a coward, he had courage to do all this and you say that he was a coward? Man, you could never do the 1% of what he did. He had to kill innocent people, kids, even babies. He didn't want to, but he had to. Understand that. Once more, he did all this under the influcend of Ymir and that is why he said that he didn't know why he did all that. It is what he purely meant. He even accepted his death 'cause he knew what kind of a sin was to kill 80% of the world population. Eren was a person who had a responsibility that he maybe never wanted. He had a duty and he acomplished what he had to acomplish.
@@rambooo1771 Watch Invaderzz his point suggests Eren was a psychopath who did out of pleasure, Eren isn’t one of the best main characters after the ending. He was simply a psychopathic slave who doesn’t know why he did other than he wanted too it’s not well written.
@@rambooo1771 Also I believe Eren did out of protection of his people and himself but apparently that wasn’t the case.
@@rambooo1771 so eren is a fool and Ymir is the evil guy is what I’m getting so eren is now giving the excuse that he was influenced by Ymir that’s dumb because Ymir hasn’t spoke and didn’t have any free will so how did she influence eren makes no sense
@@rambooo1771 eren is a coward for the fact he doesn’t know why he did it he had no goal and became a plot device
Let’s play devils advocate here. I mean pre retcon eren did the rumbling because he wanted to. He does say even if all this was what I wanted. He also apologises to ramzi because when he learned humanity lived outside the walls he was dissapointed and wanted to wipe it all away and create the free world in armins book. Ofc eren also did the rumbling to save paridise too. I mean even in that terrible ch139 eren says he still would have flattened the world if he’s friends didn’t stop him. But oh well. So this theory makes a tiny bit sense it’s 50/50 . Ch 139 eren seems like he did the rumbling because he felt like it and he lost because he was just following the path Ymir set out for him. But most importantly the full 100 percent rumbling was literally the only option for paridise to survive. Isayama wrote the story that literally the only way for paridise to survive was to wipe out the entire outside world.
Say it like it is, chief!💯
Nice video chief
Eren did have not other choice. He had to keep going. He had to move forward, until all his enemies are destroyed and Paradis Island be free.
80%*
Fuck me if they release the same manga rumbling arc with all that garbage writing I m gonna go insane. You got some good points saintitchief but its fucking Isayama he gonna finish ruining his own masterperpiece via anime and thats it.
I was hyped for the rumbling arc but it turn out to be so boring and dissapointed with probably one of the worst chapters I ever read (chapter 126)
@@diegomlg4670 Yeah its a fucking mess.
This video convinced me to watch breaking bad
breaking bad slaps and won't leave you dissapointed like aot ending, guaranteed xD
hopefully isayama wakes up and decides to fix this ending in the anime because he dropped the ball and he knows it
Yes ,let's hope
"I'm destroying the world because I want to, am I? Now feel sorry for me, Ramzi 😭😭😭"
In trying to defend Eren, this theory only makes Eren look 10,000x worse 🤮
Bruh even if Isayama went on an interview to say that this interpretation of Eren is exactly what he intended to tell with Eren's character in the ending that would not make him a great, complex MC worthy of getting so much praise over at all
I think you guys are missing the point this theory is clearly not trying to portray eren in a good light they are saying eren is selfish and evil you don't put genocide in a good light
@@yutaoGOATsu236 Genocide is bad and a lot of Eren fans acknowledge that too (not all of them are crazy hardcore Yeagerist believe it or not). When they want to see Eren complete the Rumbling with complete conciousness it isn't because they think thats a good thing. Its because this is the natural result caused by generations of hatred so intense that it blocks out any option towards diplomacy for the rest of time. Remember that Eren didn't attack until Willy Tybur got the entire world on his side to see Eldians as devils and proclaimed war on Paradis. Its all framed as a cautionary tale, not as something that should be strived for. However this theory frames it less nuanced than that, as more simple and thats something AOT used to criticize and discredit in its earlier story beats.
@@islandboy9381 i was responding to the first guy saying this theory was trying to defend eren and made him look worse my point was that thats that they aren't trying to make him look good
@@islandboy9381 i understand that most fans know that genocide is bad its the way they frame it that i dont agree with they make it seem like eren had no choice but to do it and had good reason but genocide should never be put in a way where it seems like an option this theory makes it clear that eren is a villain not a good person put in a bad spot and that he chose this option for selfish reasons thats the only acceptable way you should put mass genocide in a story where you make it so its not justfied in any way and the person doing it is clearly evil and selfish it makes it very clear that this is not acceptable it may not be as complex but in my eyes its more acceptable
the rat analogy made me die laughing lmfao shows how dumb that theory really is
the fan base is so split on the ending. Everyone agrees AoT was a good series before S4. Some people just cant admit the writing took a huge hit. It’s the author’s job to convey to the reader the feelings of the main character! how does it take multiple 1hr videos to dissect eren’s character?
Amazing vid Saint. Broke it down perfectly. Thank you for defending Eren.
theories defending eren 9 Months after the ending are based on the hope that people forgot important manga details and characterisations, so that more viewers can eat it up. None of these clowns dropped a video back at chapter 131, 123, 100 and so on, analysing Eren as a character that "never changed" or "genocides the world just for himself". Even if we didn't have all details about Eren's motivations, the fact that no one was describing Eren like ending defenders do now, proves the lack of foreshadowing and poor writing on Isayama's part
All these clowns understood eren just like us when 131 dropped, now people like shash and invaderzz make some mental gymnastics to recontextualize everything of erens development and. Core characteristics pre 131
@@meawiyaothman7872 all this story would have made perfect sence if that stupid panel of eren bitching over Mikasa was not canon
@@mackmenezes4912 nah That wasn’t the only shit moment
@@meawiyaothman7872 .
@@meawiyaothman7872 ,nah that was the only shit moment so powerful that it feels like a joke,the rest of the story is connected ,not the eren Mika ship
Bro chapter 131 was peak...
If u think ch131 was peak and eren did all of this just for the sake of eldia you're a hypocrite
@@Sanguinnius so he did it bc he enjoys killing? Lmao
This is one of the worst theories i've ever heard😂 Who in they right mind thought this was good?
Walter White the GOAT🐐
Speculating is fine, but this theory just doesn't work cause Isayama butchered the writing so bad its beyond theories
@@InsaniaTHEGREATONE This writing can never be redeemed. It's like trying to untoast-toast.
Just accept it youre dumb fucks and move on,y'all ending haters are more annoying than those EM retards
@@Sanguinnius That’s funny because usually it’s EM tards who defend the ending
@@evanpowers6045 that's one hell of dumb assumption,there are people who hate both side and agree that ending is overhated just coz of clowns like you,I do hate some aspects of it but you guys look like aot is the only piece of literature you've read,coz there are stories with way worse ending than this and i still somewhat like them and aot ending wasn't even that bad,you guys just ruined it for yourself with headcanons, just look at this comment section,it's miserable
DUDE!
How can one man be SO FUCKING BASED!?
At the end of the day Walter Remains one of the most legendary protagonist and antagonist while Eren is now and forever will be known as a cry baby grown man who doesn’t know why he wanted to destroy the whole world.
Eren was presented with multiple options though...
1. Euthanasia plan
2. Let the military police take control of the founding titan
3. Try to broker peace with the outside world somehow, as he summarily rejected in that scene at the shooting range
there were probably more that I'm forgetting
I'm not seeing why it would be hard to believe that Eren would struggle at a crossroads between two very conflicting ideals. Reiner had a similar internal conflict, which he 'resolved' by developing a split personality. By contrast, Eren didn't need to split his personality or anything of the sort because he ultimately was, unlike Reiner, capable of committing to one final route. And so what if his final decision makes him more loathsome to you than any other protagonist ever? That sounds like pretty successful writing if that was the intent!
1. Island could still be destroyed
2. Historia sacrificed
3. He did try, and he knew it wouldn't happen.
When I said "options" I also said "options that would solve his problems". None of these options solve his problems.
Yeah I really love watching a show that makes me hate a character I loved more than any character in history, even purely evil ones, in 1 chapter. Great writing for sure!
@@saintitchief
Is a good story obligated to have a utilitarian resolution? Did anyone truly expect anything but an utterly haunting ending to a story with such a disturbing premise and repeated mockery of the audience's attachments throughout??
I know I'd much prefer to have believable characters push toward believable goals, warts and all. Take for instance, Zeke's euthanasia plan, which irl would be bonkers and beyond yikes but works perfectly with his character given the supernaturally gruesome conflict he was born at the center of. His childhood was loveless as a means to an end for Eldians, he had to eat his favorite person in the world in a sense because they were both Eldians. He was even shown to be capable of betraying his own people, specifically his parents, in the past. The predictable self-loathing resulting from Zeke's traumatic upbringing plays perfectly into him advocating for such a nihilistic and self-defeating plan in the end.
Unfortunately for Zeke, he didn't secure the power to win. Winning is usually the job of the protagonist, so as expected Eren did just that. And he executed his own fucked up plan, in the stead of several other fucked up or downright impractical plans presented to Eren nearing the end of the story, each reflecting other characters' motives, characters who were ultimately powerless to execute them.
Idk man I wouldn't advise having a rule against disconcerting endings. Those really do make some of the best stories. Despite the internal conflicts and contradictions in Eren's thought process, I'd say as long as there's at least one thread of consistency throughout the story, his final decision checks out. Eren was always rather impulsive and sadistic with a heavy in-group bias, and the ending is rather consistent with that.
@@hangukhiphop impulsive and sadistic? lol if you say so man. you and I just see Eren differently, if he was meant to be seen the way you see him then Isayama failed miserably.
@@saintitchief impulsive and sadistic were one of Eren's sides, yes. He's a multifaceted character with internally competing motivations, as any good character has! But don't you remember those times when Eren got carried away with the psycho bloodlust (the times he fought Annie's Titan and the time he told Reiner and Bertholdt he would make sure they die in the most brutal way possible)? He had it in him the whole time and that's the side that won in the end. Favorable? Maybe not, but totally believable.
Thank you! Wonderful vid as always
Amazing video keep it up 🙏🏾👏🏾
you said everything i wanted to say, thank you
You invalidated everything invaderzz said in this simple video. I thought invaderzz was just making up his head canon. Love your videos man, they stay to the point and keep things simple and logical instead of just saying bunch of confusing philosophical stuff.
I'm very mixed on both sides. I do like some parts of this theory but understand that even if they were true Isayama is expecting way too much from his readers with giving them such little time to process such big scenes in such short chapters. I just hope the anime either helps establish what Isayama is trying to say or change the ending if Isayama wants to.
Whatever it is, I think we can all agree that too much was left to interpretation and that is not good writing. Leaving a key detail or two to interpretation makes the story more interesting. Leaving the main plot line to be about either nature or nurture up to the interpretation of the reader is bullshit. Needs to be ironed out more
I have no problem with the Jegaerberg theory but we need the god damn thought process where Eren understand he has to die because he's fucked up lol, instead of YmirxFritz bullshit, the AOE needs to address Eren's moment of realisation, but again, the fact that Eren said "I don't know" makes me think Yams don't know what Eren's realisation was supposed to be
Music is great as always
i still cant believe after aot has ended we are debating his goals if aoe doesnt happen we can only hope isayama tell us what erens goals really were
Great video man
This is based, thank you
You are goat! You speak my mind!
What's funny that Falco was inspired by Jesse.
lol , I like how the 1.5h video make me go from disliking the ending to liking it, then you ,making me disliking it again.
sorry bruv
Why didn't you mention the cave scene and medal ceremony? If this guy is such a selfish piece of shit, then why would he tell historia to eat him and save everyone with the power of the founder? Why would he punch himself in the face when he realized he can't be a "useless brat" anymore since people's lives depend on him? Why would he say "i would gladly give my life if it could change something" in the medal ceremony? Ofc he has selfish sides to him, but isn't nearly as much as this theory describes him. Either that or isayama changed his writing of eren at the last arc. Which is not far fetched. He already did that prior to the final arc. Look at the difference between hobo eren and man bun eren. Almost 2 completely different characters...
👏👏
"then why would he tell historia to eat him and save everyone with the power of the founder?" because Eren changes his mind off-screen.
At that point he didn't know who his enemies were. He thought it was titans and was open to give his life to kill them. But when he found out who his enemies were...
"When I found out that humanity lived beyond the walls... I... was so dissapointed. I wanted to wipe them all out" (something like that is in chapter 131)
He was dissapointed that the world beyond the walls wasn't like in Armin's book and that humans were his enemies. He wanted to kill them all.
True Hobo Eren and Man-bun Eren, as long as Paths Eren all behave differently. It seems that Isayama couldn't decide between writing a matured, stoic main character or a hot-blooded, selfish man-child who sought to flatten the world because "he was dissapointed with the outside world".
@@Kita-zj9zi No He was disappointing they are against letting the eldians be free. At the end of scene three eren said "If we kill all the enemies beyond the see will we finally be free ?"
I agree with a lot of your criticism of the theory. I think the ending is good tho, I just think the theory oversimplifies Eren a lot
@Saintitchief I heard rumours that the anime will end at 131; if that is true do you think it would be a at least decent ending or do you think there would be a lot of stuff unresolved?
A story ending incompleted is not a good ending to any story
I don't think he only did it for himself, but he did value himself above his friends in the final decision to do the rumbling, before he sees the entire future
He valued the freedom of his people above his friends
After they adapt 123, only 130 and 131 will be watchable. The rumbling arc was so awful and confusing, that not even altering things in the Anime can make the ending better.
Lemme translate that: Even if they change things for the better in the anime I wouldn’t care simply cus it made me that mad
@@lilmupp875 He right, the Rumbling was poorly written.
@@TheRealLily1 tell me what was bad bout it
Awesome vid
They should have just made Mikasa Eren's real sister I think that would have been better
how do you think isayama will do to awaken mikasa's Ackerman power?
@@kingyeungng1643 no idea what do you think?
@@raysanders2224 Mikasa should have never existed. Should switch her for someone else.
@@dripmonke6112 maybe she can just not exist and let Levi to do her job
@@dripmonke6112 Mikasa alright I just don't like how obsessed she is with Eren
Do you still think Eren and Historia were canon, Saint? :(
don't abandon EH sisters like this...
yes
I wish I could do rumbling to kill all the shippers,you guys really destroyed the way series was meant to be interpreted
What am I to you was not romantic. Eren asked mikasa that because as we saw in ch138 dream or timeline 1: he was looking for any excuse to run away and not do the rumbling, As he didn’t want to kill everyone and take away their dreams and freedom. If mikasa answered properly and the old man didn’t interrupt he would have ran away with her. Now ch139 heavily infers everything eren did was too get to the future he saw when he kissed historias hand. He was just following the path that was set out for him so mikasa could kill him. He acknowledges in ch131 the future can’t change when he saves ramzi from the bullies almost like the future is set in stone. Whether it’s a retcon or not that’s what ch139 heavily infers. If we don’t get this aoe I’ll never watch or mention aot again
As expected of Pieck that is exactly right. 👉
exactly to many people misinterpret that scene as Eren being in love with Mikasa same thing with him running away with her he never did that out of love rather out of a desire to not commit a genocide, however I believe in the anime timeline even if Mikasa tells Eren how she truly feels he still wouldn't run away as his determination to complete the rumbling is far stronger now that he knows it is 100% truly the only way to save Paradis even getting rid of titan powers wouldn't end the outside worlds hatred as we see in the extra pages
@@thelastshartbender758 I feel bad for Aaron's dead body he probably getting smashed by that necrophile. She probably saying it's free real estate
@@dripmonke6112 fr hope one of the Yeagerists recovered it before Necrokasa
@@thelastshartbender758 You already know. Awaken my master.
I agree with most of this w video. Eren was never shown to be some mindless killing monster until post timeskip
A couple minutes into the video and this man says Eren never killed any innocents...... How bout no!
While I get the rebuttal, I feel like you missed or misinterpreted a lot of the points of the theory itself. From even the topic. For most of the video you compare eren to Walter, and while I have not watched breaking bad, the way you described it. Walter did it because it was fun and he liked it. This is not what the theory is trying to say, that eren killed everyone because he liked or had fun doing it. He did it because he values his pursuit of freedom more than them. I feel like you definitely misinterpreted what the theory is trying to say about eren. Let me go point by point.
Walter vs Eren comparison
Your whole first point hinges on the fact that the theory does not work because unlike Walter who had a way out and choose not to take it, eren didn’t have a way out at all. What you were wrong about is the fact that eren DID have a way out. It’s just that throughout the whole point you are assuming that the goal is to save his island when the entire point of the theory is that, saving the island wasn’t the goal.
The theory goes that eren goal, other than the corrupted pursuit of freedom is saving his friends and letting them have a happy life. If you think of his goals as that, from the beginning than you can see the many ways he had a way out. From leaving with mikasa, to helping armin and hange make up a plan. To even having the wall titans come out and just scare everyone so they don’t come back for another thousand years. If the goal was just to save his friends, than you can see the fact that he refuses to do these things over and over, why?
Not because he had fun doing it, but because it’s in his nature to go after that corrupted pursuit of freedom. he cannot stop himself.
Do I think it could be foreshadowed better? Yeah absolutely, but saying all of these other reasons are not enough the only way I would accept it is if isayama wrote this specific thing that I want that needs to happen or else it’s not acceptable is also not a good argument.
“Why would he kneel and weep”
Because he has empathy. This is the same reason of why Reiner and Bert does it? He knows that he is doing a bad thing, he knows that he shouldn’t go through with it but just like reiner is he going through with it anyway.
“Why would he walks on the streets of his future victims, why would he go to Marley at all?”
He went to Marley because at that point in the story he still thought as them as enemies. The whole point of this theory is that eren does not have all the answers until the very very end right when he gained the founding titans power. At that point in the story he only saw grisha memories and a few moments of eren memories up until the point of the freedom scene.
“Why would he take the time to learn about these people when all he cared about is killing them.”
Again a misconception on what the theory is trying to say. The theory isn’t trying to say that eren is a unfeeling monster. The theory is saying that he values his pursuit of freedom more than anything else besides his family period. It does not mean he doesn’t care about everything else.
He cares about all of the people that he’s about to kill, he feels bad about it! He values them, he just values his pursuit of freedom MORE. He’s not killing people just for shits and giggles like the joker, he’s doing it to reach his ideas of freedom. The theory IS NOT saying that eren is killing him just because.
Eren admits he left 20% alive topic.
So your main counter point to this is the fact that “why would eren give up on his primary objective simply because the future said so?”
Basically right? That’s simple, there’s two reasons. One is because at THAT point in the story the theory goes that he knew ALL of the future now up to that point. At that, he knew specifically all of it. The second is that he already lived through ALL of the past and the sight basically confirmed that everything was predestined.
Can you imagine that? It’s basically someone handing you a script of literally EVERYTHING you did and what you are going to do. There is no fighting against that fact, eren just had to accept it.
The points of where you said that it was contradictory to his character, are points in time where the theory goes EREN DID NOT KNOW. He did not know if mikasa would go with him. He did not know if he would truly go with the rumbling which is why he was considering it. That’s the POINT of the theory. That because eren only saw the future through grisha he didn’t actually know every thing that happened until it was too late.
So at that point, when he finally gets to read all of it, read the entire script and see that he followed exactly what the script said to a tee and than read the ending, what else can you do but follow it?
“It’s not as if he didn’t have the power from killing them.”
No, he didn’t have the power to stop them from kill him. Because there is only one thing that he values more than his pursuit of freedom. His friends.
Basically at the end of the day he was NEVER going to kill his friends, he was never going to go all the way, because he valued them more. So he would have died because they would have kept fighting until eren would be forced to hold back so they wouldn’t die. Plain and simple.
“Why did he celebrate when he destroyed the world?”
Because again, he didn’t know the future yet, the theory goes that he got the script after that scene.
“He doesn’t know why he just had to do it.”
This is good writing. This plays into the nature vs nurture argument that eren and Zeke represents.
Eren at birth was ingrained with the constant hunger for the pursuit of freedom. It’s just is, that’s just his nature. He doesn’t know why, or better. The reason why is because he was born into this world. If you don’t like that, that’s fine. But to say it’s bad writing because it’s a commentary on a part of a personality being purely natural and being a slave to that natural will is wrong. It’s good writing.
“Eren always acts out of violence as a means to an end.”
Like the time where he head butted armin as a kid?
Like the time he grabbed mikasa wrist and forced her to the wall and screamed at her.
Like the time he immediately went to fight Jean over a argument
Like the time where he said he was gonna destroy the world as a titan for no reason while fighting Annie
Like the time in the fight with Annie he acted like a a wild animal and almost ate her instinctively instead of a person fighting just for “a means to an end”
Like the time where even when he tried to keep calm he couldn’t help but scream and yell at reiner and Bert even though it was the wrong thing to do at the time, he even admitted it. And said he was gonna make them die the worst way possible
Like the time where he thought he was useless so he was punching himself over and over
Like I’m the school manga which the author specifically said it was their true nature, eren though about causing a world wide apocalypse.
Etc, there’s many times where eren was violent just to be violent. Sure, did he direct most of his violent energy to where it was justifiable? Yeah, but there was still many moments where he was just violent.
Besides the theory isn’t even trying to say that that he simply did it because he was violent. The theory is saying that he did it because he was born with the nature of constantly pursuing freedom. If people try to take his freedom he won’t hesitate to take there’s.
Mikasa confession
You are absolutely right, it sucked. At the very least tho, it goes with the theory that eren just learned about the future meaning he didn’t know he was gonna die. So it supports the fact that he’s whinney about the fact that he’s literally about to die and not be with mikasa.
But it was severely tone death, out of place, didn’t have a lot of foreshadowing with the relationship and overall bad writing I agree with you.
Overall I feel like a majority of your points was you just missing the subject of the theory. You think the theory is about eren being a monster who did everything for shits and giggles.
The theory truly is about free will and being a slave to your natural instincts. That eren choose to destroy the world because he was born into this world as someone with a natural drive to pursue this corrupted freedom. That In the end, eren never became free of that will and was forced to die from it.
whether it be “for eren” or “for eren’s nature” its still the same point. the story did not give us enough to believe that eren had other options, and thus, i can never believe he did it for anything other than self preservation.
“eren always uses violence as a means to an end”
yeah like how he literally did not want to fight the warriors after finding out who they were?
the theory does not say eren got the “script” after the freedom panel, he got it way before, when he first teamed up with ymir.
ironic how you say im the one who misunderstood things.
@@saintitchief
I think that’s subjective. I think that it could have been made better but after looking at all of the evidence it’s enough to believe he did it because it was in his nature.
A few cases where eren used violence as a means to an end does not mean that he’s the type of character that ALWAYS uses violence as a means to an end. I’m not trying to say that he never uses it as a means to an end as well I’m just saying that the argument that eren isn’t violent just to be violence is untrue.
Anyways as I said before, that wasn’t even the point of the theory.
Also you’re correct, my bad about the freedom panel thing. What actually happened was that he gained the memories when he got the founding titan and worked together with ymir like you said. That doesn’t actually change anything since that’s still after all of the “contradictions” that you brought up. My points still stands.
Just a little note tho, I watched your other longer video of you reacting to the entire video and I think your point about why didn’t eren try at all to convince mikasa and armin makes more sense than anything this video said. While I still think this is the best theory yet of the actual story, that part doesn’t make a lot of sense.
The story felt like it seltled it's thoughts regarding nature vs nurture and freewill (determinism and such) during the path chapters. The chapters really felt as if it was isayamas climax on the ideals and the best part was that it felt like it was all just him reinforcing what he had already implied about how he feels about these ideals (shown through Erens whole character beforehand basically). It made it all feel sooo incredibly powerful and climatic to me as a result (and I'm sure many other readers as well).
@@ken5685 The theory make eren even more pathetic.
thats why chainsaw man is peak
I love the ending. I just think it is poorly told. He should made the chapter double length tbh
This is a good video
Good video btw.
11:55 Maybe we can say Eren is not a rat he is intelligent, he could have decided the less worst option even if it meant giving up who he is. But eren is eren and he couldnt do this.
Bro I fucking wanted the Yeagerburg theory to be real. Anyone claiming the actual ending was anywhere near it is either blind or actively larping.
All the eramika defender and the fans defender of the Manga ending they always Said: Eren do the rumbling because he want to protect his friends and he want his friends to be a heros and he want to his friends to live Long live and Eren Kruger he said protect Armin and Mikasa) let's say Eren in the Manga timeline perspective he protect Armin and Mikasa and his friends to live Long live but why he didn't Love someone inside the walls and paradise island get destroyed and the history repeat it self and the mistake repeat it self this Eren from the manga Timeline perspective and eramika defender and the defender of the Manga ending they Love him so much
But Eren in the anime time line perspective he will love someone inside the walls and not repeat the same history and the same mistake and a achieve a true freedom and broke the titan course and hellucgiena and a achieve a true freedom for his own self for the people of paradise island
Yo can anyone drop the background music? Thanks in advance
W💪🏼
DAHAHA HE KILLED HIMSELF AND HIS OWN MOTHER FOR A FUTURE IN WHERE JEAN HAS TONS OF BABIES WITH MIKASA
The story gives him no OPTION due to the situation...presented to him, the Mikasa confession is fine, ..but it does not work if eren hasn't accomplished anything, the story does not show what eren has accomplished , no side gives a definite answer
The Mikasa confession would have worked if Eren was shown some PROOF like accomplish something
Hense the Yeagerburg theory makes a lot more sence
But it does retcon season 3 part 1 major events
"Eren is a crazy psycho who killed people for the lulz and because he just wanted no people." isn't the claim that is being made with the Jaegerberg theory/comparison.
The idea is that Eren is fundamentally obsessed with the base idea of an incredibly deranged idea of freedom, and when he sees that people have freedom and he doesn't, he willingly takes theirs for his own, even if that extends to the entire world. He was so emotionally broken and enraged by seeing that the sea he had desired to see his entire life was just another wall in the way of his pursuit of freedom that he was willing to annihilate people to achieve freedom, even if it was ultimately a false, ephemeral version of it. Eren is not operating for teh lulz and because he's just a naturally crazy psychopath, he wants to destroy the world because he wasn't free in it, and this drives him as opposed to Paradis or his friends. He allowed his friends to stop him because he refused to take their freedom in the process.
I don't agree or disagree with this theory, I think it's a valid way to view the character but not one that I fully agree with.
Walter did regret killing people or people dying from his work. He just grew more numb to it and regretted it less as he went on. And I think you could argue like Walter, Eren hasn’t admitted his true drive to himself.
Should be Jägerberg not Yeagerburg
Wow you are really eloquent!!
Ngl, I had a bias against you cuz you supported Aotnr and I believe it is abysmally written (an ending where Eren completes the Rumbling can still be fantastic but that fic wasn't it, imo)
Anyways, I think only think common between Eren and Walt is a selfish desire (Eren's is more innane- the chapter in which he plugs the wall and thinks about the outside World is legit called 'primitive desire') that doesn't undermine the fact that they had other reasons. Walt did care for his family and Eren did care for his friends and Paradis.
Also, I don't think the assumption that there were NO other options to protect Paradis is correct. There was one. Eren went out of his way to close it off-the 50 year plan.
Is sacrificing Historia that bad a deal if it ensures that Threat of Rumbling remains as a deterrent and Paradis is given a window space of around 50 years to develop and forge alliances with nations like Hizuru (And other nations that Marley crushed, whose volunteers helped Paradis develop from a primitive state to a pseudo-modern nation in around 5 years). Ofcourse the hatred won't go away, ofcourse most of the world would still be terrified....but it would be a North Korea like situation for Paradis, a presence of world ending weapon would've kept the enemies at bay.
But it just isn't in Eren's nature to accept this solution because this is a begrudging compromise. This isn't freedom. There would still be walls. The status quo would still exists and more than that, he would die in 5 years passing down the burden of His Titan to one of his friends and Historia would continue the tradition of the royal blood line being used as 'weapon of war', from which he SAW Hisu break away and greatly admired her for it.
Imo, it's micro vs macro perspective...being in Eren's position, maybe I too wouldn't have accepted a deal that while protected my 'people' came at the cost of lives of my friends.
The 50 year plan was another option, so was the euthanasia plan. What I meant was, there was no other option that would have definitely made 100% sure that his friends (including Historia) were safe.
For Walter, he was given multiple options that would have 100% made sure his family was taken care of, and he declined them. This proves that this was not his primary motivation.
Eren never got this opportunity, therefore, it makes it hard for me to believe that he did what he did primarily for himself.
@@saintitchief But looking it at that way too, he's still pretty selfish.
He prioritized the lives of his friends over a solution that practically made the most sense for the Island (eventhough it came at the cost of Hisu and him passing down his Titan after what he believed, was doing nothing)
I think apart from the 'I wanted it' aspect a layer to Eren's character is that he wants to be the one to bring change and seeing so many people sacrifice themselves for him (Humanity's hope), really exaggerated this burden.
Anyways, all of this would've been clearer if Isayama just gave him more povs in the Rumbling arc. The prioritization in that arc is a mess.
But Yeah, the Walter comparisons don't make much sense since he didn't relish the power, a sense of control, wasn't narcissistic and didn't try to excuse his actions. He was also very self loathing.
@@kritikasrivastava530 How can you call that selfish just because he doesn’t want to subject one of his closest friends to certain death and being a breeding cow?
That’s not selfish at all.
Eren “wanting” to be the one to bring change is not true either, he was openly willing to give his Titan to Historia and die in that cave. This is not his character either.
@@saintitchief idk man, choosing your friends over the World is selfish. People in position of power are expected to make personal sacrifices, be used as tool; Historia either by her choice or forced doesn't matter- was the queen of the country- a selfless decision on both her and Eren's part would be to concede to a role made for her. But AoT has always been a story of people defying the norms, being selfish even when the world goes to shit because of it. Being selfish when the world demands personal sacrifices isn't bad-I dunno why people hate the term.
Eren was suicidal in the cave because he just learned his father slaughtered a family including little children- had more to do with his self earth being shattered that he isn't 'special' or the 'chosen one'. This was never meant to show us how self sacrificial Eren could be, just that how a wallowing guilt deviated him from the person he was.
He legit says 'I hated the Titans but I subconsciously accepted being one because I thought I was chosen for this. So many people died for me and I accepted it because I thought it's how it us meant to be'
His self worth, pride in being 'chosen' as the hope of humanity is shattered. This leads to the Bystander chapter and Carla's words resonate to him, restoring his self worth and conviction in being 'born to this world' and hence not needing to be special for any other reason.
@Manvëru Yeah if I needed to see a raving nationalist doing a Genocide solely for his homeland, I'd revisit Floch's arc.
Eren was not Eren in Aotnr, he was just the Paradis hero, y'all want him to be.
His freedom, the way he's explored in the story is so unique and I don't want to see a cardboard cutout 'no choice but to do this for mah people' guy when I have an unhinged, freedom seeking 'I had many choices but I chose this path because I wanted it' Eren. Thank You.
Guys, I have a question. How can you blame Eren for anything? He did what he did 'cause he had no other choice and also 'cause there was actually no other solution. But, how can anybody say that he is a bad person? You can say whatever you want, Eren is for a reason one of the best main characters of all time and no one can prove different.
@@rickrossstagedive3490 It is easy to take it out of the context. What you just said is just stupid. So, your logic, if the world is threatening my homeland, I should sit and watch, 'cause if I have power to kill them and I do, I'm a bad person. Who the fuck gives a fuck if you are a bad person if you defend your people? You are the hero for them, your people and that is the only thing that matters. Grow up, learn how the war works and then post stupid comments with no sense.
BUT THE PROBLEM IS IN AOT EREN HAS CONTROL OVER THE FOUNDER AND HE IS THE LAST TITAN SHIFTER, THE LAST ATTACK TITAN
W
Yo if anyone wants another Isayama clue, in the trailer Eren and zeke touch foreheads and they are switched sides from the manga. I find it it really weird as hell.If there is a chance for third timeline ending in the anime its fucking now
and young mikasa turns the opposite way / black scarf
@@maniekan Yeah if they dont fuck it up we might actually get a proper ending for AOT
@@InsaniaTHEGREATONE I think the actual reason why they are stopping at chapter 131 is obviously due to the workload of what's to come but also for isayama to step in and guide them through his final product ( aoe )
@@maniekan Interesting take, possible
BUT THE PROBLEM IS WHERE IS THE PUNCH LINE IN THE STORY THAT MAKES SENCE
139 Eren is a retcon, it doesn't make sense to think of it otherwise, unless Isayama is literally the worst writer in history.
i will try to refuse u, i hope u read
its as u say at the beginning EREN DO IT BECAUSE HE WANTED ('something'), but your forgotten that what he wanted was freedom for himself and his friends.
5:25 (- 6:40) EREN WAS NOT GIVEN OTHER CHOICE ?????
try any other option besides rumbling its of course a gamble and need hard choices, u may could say a bad gamble but u cant say there isnt other options.
- historia was doomed, the most likely is that historia and her children would have to be sacrified, eren had to renounce to historia
-why it seems like if eren didnt have another choice?
cause in those chapters the show was testing us, in this point the show can close well
-Eren cant know if the island will survive after his death, eldia destroyed is not his fault in the sense that he doesnt know for sure nothing about events after his dead
An important difference here that ur not considering is that walter had easy ways to do what is moral rigth, for eren was TOO HARD, there werent 'easy' solutions.
I LOVE UR WORK
but ur the wrong in these arguments, in some arguments ur being a little simplistic
And i dont know if u can say self-gain, he wants something: FREEDOM FOR HIMSELF AND HIS FRIENDS
facts only
a lot of your "points" were completely subjective
How so?
10:22 Eren was not pretending, it was real.
He put his freedoom over the world but not over his friends freedom.
Eren just stop because he knew his friends were going to fight him and they arrived before he ends the rumnling. So to achieve his goal (freedom for himself and his friends) the only choice left was to loose and do his friends heroes.
I wouldn’t call his friends situation freedom considering they had to live the rest of their lives in fear of retaliation from the remaining 20%
@@tejaybee4737 very likely they lived almost all their life without a direct war conflict.
The other options left were to live waiting the attack of the whole world because they refused to rumbling
@@tejaybee4737 their friends decide and choice to stop rumbling so its their decision to live with 20 per, eren 'd have end it if they'd have stay on the island.
At least at the end eren gave them a more realistic opportunity to survive but the world never found peace.
@@tejaybee4737 the choose and rush of their friends concluded in 20 per, eren didnt choose the number, he didnt wait
I dont like the idea that eren had no other option but to commit mass genocide it disturbs me because it seems like people are trying to justify eren choice but genocide should never seem like an acceptable option no matter the situation thats why i like this theory because it shows eren as a clear villain that is selfish and greedy it doesn't try to put eren in a good light or as justfied in his actions the way i think it should be
That's how the story was presented, and it was logical for what Isayama had built. Changing the ending to make Eren worse than he was and shoehorning a love plot at the last minute isn't good writing. You could make the argument that Eren was selfish for choosing his friends and freedom over the world, but would you let everyone you care about die for some people you don't know?
"jaegerberg theory bad because its psychotic and disgusting" oh well ok buddy. nobody said you had to actually like the villains character on a personal level because that's literally how villains operate. if you're disgusted by eren's actions and view them as psychotic then i think that isayama did a good job at making him a compelling villain in the post timeskip. almost like how griffith is still a good villain despite being a "psychotic and disgusting" character and just because his character is like that doesn't really make a story bad at least in my eyes.
yeah but then he tries to have us mourn someone so disgusting and feel bad for him? no. “to the boy who sought freedom, goodbye “
more like the boy who sought to destroy the earth for no fucking reason lol trash