Thanks for the great feedback everybody! Glad you enjoyed the video - it was all for a bit of fun. A lot of you asked about the hybrid support car. It was carrying a stack of gear and spare wheels - it used 7.8L/100km over 1429km. Total cost for fuel was $211, which was around $.147/km.
@@ScottMcDonald-ck6qn Definitely was fun! As we said in the video - realistically, the diesel would have just fuelled within 4 minutes and not stopped, which would have made for a boring video.
@@ScottMcDonald-ck6qn You think that makes a difference? Even if it doubled the consumption it would have taken less than a five minute top up to refill. How about next time they get driven at the same speeds so we can see the real difference?
Most people don't know that in really good turbo diesel engine, the fuel economy at 55 mph is same as at 85mph ! So going slow doesn't make much difference. Going slow does make a difference in petrol engine cars .... Ex Diesel BMW 320D driver
That’s on their own lack of self control isn’t it, though? I’m always surprised at the number of people that pay servo/vending machine prices for a single chocolate bar or drink that will get you a multipack at Coles to last you the whole week. But nah they don’t think that far ahead and MUST have it now.
I'm not sure the results were surprising - long trip with highway driving puts the combustion car in its most efficient scenario against an EV in its least efficient scenario - 1400km in city driving would be interesting. It was an enjoyable video and good to see there is actually enough chargers to do the trip albeit the infrastructure still has a long way to go. Maybe a Sydney to Brisbane run up the Pacific Highway where charger accessibility should be a bit better......
The urban test wouldn't have to based on the trip distance though, just run around until the deisel stops from lack of fuel, then compare the cost. EV is going piss all over ICE and take. Dump on the bonnet.
65mpg in a midsize SUV is pretty good. There aren’t many hatchbacks that can manage that and fewer that can beat it. A tonne of hybrids won’t manage that.
@@adammcallister2260 i'm guessing those 65mpg equates to those 4.8l/100km shown in the video for us europeans, and i don't really know many cars, not even hatchbacks or small sized suvs that can do that. I can barely do that on my Hyundai Tucson or Toyota Verso or a friends Seat Ibiza
Thanks boys, that looked like a lot of fun but I would like to see you do a similar run without traveling at reduced speed to save fuel or battery range in those vehicles. Give us a real life comparison of them at normal highway speed and without trying to better each other.
@@CarExpertAus Sure, that’s a given, but what about the cost comparison when you are trying to get from A to B in the shortest amount of time and you are not trying to save fuel or extend battery mileage in the two cars? Would the costs still be as close as they were? I would have thought the EV would be cheaper to run under those circumstances?
@@F1Tragic Yes I thought this was a quite dishonest test designed to come up with a particular conclusion. Get a very efficient ICE car and hypermile it. Drive an EV as inefficiently as possible (i.e. fast) so that you need to charge more often (and yes, slipstreaming DOES significantly reduce energy consumption - more so in an EV than an ICE car since most of the energy in the fuel used by an ICE car goes into the atmosphere as wasted heat). Energy required to overcome wind resistance is proportional to the square of the frontal area of the vehicle, requring about 80% more energy at 120kph than at 90 kph (and I bet the Kia has a bigger frontal area than the little Audi). I just looked at the charging network along the trip route (ABRP and PlugShare) and there seems to be pretty good supply of fast (or fastish) chargers on the way. If you were planning the trip, you would find a place to stay overnight that had a charger (e.g. there are many motels with Tesla destination chargers, and many of these are not restricted to Tesla vehicles only). So a 1400 km trip over 2 days is 700 km per day, so can do this with 1 (maybe 2) stops per day plus an overnight charge at the motel.
@@CarExpertAus Maybe. But by how much? If it's a difference of 2 hours, then who cares? If it's a difference of 20 though... That's a whole other story. I think it's a valid question to ask, and a test awaiting!
A similar experiment was done in the UK by a journalist on his TH-cam channel. It turned out that the electric was even more expensive by £5 compared to the diesel. So with fuel prices and electric costs, buying an ev doesn't make economical sense. As for me I will stick with combustion engines until the foreseeable future
Yeah depending on your daily usage of the car you might not like to need to charge all the time because a single full tank of diesel is good for 1000km+
Surely had you gone the more popular main route you'd have had to wait for other EV drivers to charge their cars and you'd have lost by a long, long way.
But going from Adelaide to Sydney via hay (which many stay the night at on such a trip) is the most common, shortest and direct route. Oh that's right go via broken Hill and carry a Jerry can of extra electricity
@@alanmay7929 Diesel is at the top of the price mountain, which means it may go down in the future, while the electric charging price may go up subject to the market demand and subsidy decrease.
When I got my ev charging cost about £13 for 200 miles on the road and about £3 at home. Now though, prices have gone through the roof on the road. It’s only £4-5 at home still though.
@A CDE the 209.9 that was quoted for diesel is nowhere near the current price for diesel in Sydney though. The last month or so, diesel has been in the 235 region
Charging at home would be $50 on a standard tariff, or as little as $10 charging on solar. You pay a premium for fast chargers die to their charging speed, but but most EV owners only use them a few times a year.
Would've liked if both of them are doing representative method of comparison. If one is trying to save as much fuel compared to how they normally would, and the other trying to go as far as the battery level would allow, it's not representative. We won't know how much fuel it really takes, or how much longer do they need to stay to charge relatively comfortably. I mean, there's a lot to do in long distance driving besides just driving.
Agreed. Would have been good to see how much longer it may have taken if the IC car was going at regular speeds and stopping for fuel. Nobody drives at 90km on the highway so it isn't a representative experience of actual life. Please re-do the challenge going however you would normally following whatever route you like. (Typically shortest / fastest).
Fact is, if you adhere to the recommended rest periods of all Australian state road/traffic authorities of 15-20 minutes rest per 2 hours of driving...the EV and the diesel will take the exact same amount of time to make just about any trip This was literally a worst case scenario for EV vs a best case scenario for turbo diesel. EV's shine around the suburbs in stop-start driving where they charge at home at ~15c/kwh.....they are their most inefficient at highway speeds, then paying 50-60c/kwh at fast charge stations tilts the odd further in the turbo diesels favour....the fact that the EV still came out ontop is a testament to how great they are really
@@harleyjones5200 "But I drive 1000 miles every day without stopping for rest or food..." - Average EV opponent explaining why stopping for charging even for 10 minutes is totally unacceptable. I wish I was joking... someone actually suggested they can just pee in a bottle so they don't need to take breaks... So, yeah, last I heard not taking breaks is actually illegal in most countries, at least for professional drivers. And nobody drives that long or often unless it is for work. So the number of legal reasons why anyone would drive like that is pretty low, even lower when we consider that these people are not talking about vans or semis but cars like Teslas...
@@harleyjones5200 Then buy plug in hybrid. It's EV that always overblown its advantages. If I need to take a rest while road trip I want to stop and eat in the place I want to go, not resting in charging station and eating rubbish food around it. Not to mention there always worry in the back of my mind if the nest charging station broke or not.
Next one should be an urban challenge between these cars. It'd be interesting to quantify the difference between a diesel and an EV when stop start driving is involved.
Yeah, this scenario was pretty much designed for a diesel car to do well. However, most people buy Diesel cars and drive around the city 95% of the time, doing school drop offs, leaving the engine running in carparks for the aircon (Brisbane), etc. Diesel consumption would be at least double of that on the highway, and if you happen to have solar power at home, like many people do these days, you get FREE fuel for your EV. Also, car servicing is basically nothing for EVs.
and taking in account the oil changes, brake pads, and the number of times my modern Audi engine displayed en error and the limp modes, and the cost of diagnostic.. and the time it takes for the heater to work in winter... and the fact that I average 6 to 10l/100 on a good day... whilst my EV manages 12KW at 90Kmh and even less in city traffic and I do not get ripped off at highway chargers.
@@cai0 Who drives diesel in city? That is not bright idea by any stretch of imagination. I hated to drive my diesel when i drove between 2 cities (17km) and swapped to petrol (now back in diesel because 214km on highway every day). Diesel is for truck or highways, petrol ...depends what kind of petrol. Hybrids are for city and at least some out of city driving
Enjoyed this video. One thing to remember is that Alborz probably paid $50 in road tax with the fuel cost that supposedly goes towards maintaining the roads we use. Nothing from EV’s as yet. Still to come 😁
This video highlights some of the issues you can run into with an EV. Unplanned problems like, closed roads, detours, traffic jams and lack of fast charging etc. Ive had an EV but i sold it, went back to Diesel. I planned a trip where i always had 5-10% range spare. At the first charger, none of the 6 fast chargers worked due software problems/connection to the internet or whatever the heck it was. I therefore had to detour to a small town with a super slow 22kW AC charger to get enough juice for the next stop. When i reach the 2nd charge stop, there was a 1 hour queue as all the stalls where taken with a large queue expanding by the minute. Last charge stop was the worst, the planned charger had been removed and was not updated as been removed, i searched all over town for a charger but all of them where either offline or having connection issue/app issues - after an hour searching i found a motel that had mercy on me and let my charge without staying at the motal. I have never been so frustrated in my entire life and after 1 year i could not take it anymore and sold it. I would split the blame into these categories - 10% buggy car software, 20% bad range and 70% terrible/unreliable chargers and lack there of.
Wow! The EV6 was still cheaper than the Q5 even though the most expensive fast-chargers were used and the Q5 was driven at a snail's pace. Plus the EV6 would be cleaner, quieter, safer, more performance and better tech 😁
Really great comparison Paul. I have owned diesel vehicles since 2006 purely as I love the grunt of the Torque in the Diesel engines and the range in fuel that is achieved compared to petrol vehicles. I would eventually like to upgrade to an EV SUV in time, but I think our governments need to invest in better infrastructure especially regionally. Living in Bendigo and doing a lot of country driving, there is not enough stability yet with various options with some towns only having 1 charger….I bet it would suck if you had to recharge in a town and the one and only charger wasn’t working. It was great to see your comparison that highlights an efficient Diesel engine driven for ‘range’ compared to ‘performance’ will give you a comparable price margin on the 2 vehicles. Given the diesel was on par to the EV without the need to wait around for the car to recharge and the need to have to plan your trip based on where you can recharge, it seems the diesel was the winner for the day. Given the price differential between an EV and a Diesel SUV, I reckon it will be at least 5-10 years before I buy an EV and I hope in that time their is a boost to the infrastructure regionally. Thanks for doing this review in real time. I will be hoping to see more EV improvements in the future. Jeff
Exactly well said and my thoughts are the same. This test shows EVs at this moment are great around the big cities, regional areas will have to wait to catch up with infrastructure before EVs become mainstream.
Same thoughts here. Eventually will upgrade to EV, but will most likely wait for at least 5 years to set a much more reliable infrastructure across Australia. And perhaps during that time with improvements in technology will even have better and more efficient batteries to accommodate for more range and even faster charging.
Encourage Ampol to invest in your area - they are rolling out EV charging throughout the country as we speak. Hopefully this will put pressure on BP & Shell to do likewise
@@Hindsight_2020__1 Good point, but don't forget that all Caltex-branded servos are actually owned by Ampol and are in the process of being rebranded back to Ampol as Caltex exits the servo business.
Yes charging infrastructure is key. But also don't forget that if you have a powerpoint in your carport or garage at home then you can charge your car there (and for much less than at a public charger). A 16 amp socket should get you at least 50% charge (200+ kms range) overnight for $10 or less.
A more useful comparison would be based on how people actually use their vehicles (vast majority of distance covered is not on 800 road trips) and using hone as well as commercial charging. The results would be more useful
I was a bit annoyed that you guys were supposed to be doing a comparison, yet ran lower tyre pressures in the EV, and drove much faster overall (I do realise to make up time). Both economy killing things. I was surprised at how much the DC fast charging cost added up. I'm a bit spoilt with an early Tesla with free Supercharging and almost exclusively charge at home, so I've only needed to use a paid public DC once. So far I've spent $15 in fast charging in 5 years.
Good video team. EVs, at this point in time, are most suitable for short-distance urban driving, not traversing the vast expanse that is Australia's regions. As car markets evolve overtime to incorporate more and more EVs, it will be the cities where it is more pronounced.
given that most people don't really drive to the other side of the continent on a weekly basis and EVs can still do it that one time a year, why exactly aren't they suitable? sure, the fact that they had to use 2 50kW chargers means the charging infrastructure needs an update. but they can do it.
I mean we have better tech in Formula E and longer range in Lucid. We definitely can make a car that can drive for long range and charge in under 5 minutes, it’s just expensive at the moment. It will definitely come to our smaller EVs. Kinda like how Mercedes brought some tech from Formula 1 into cheaper cars over time.
The average daily distance driven by an Australian is only 33km. This extreme 1400km exercise is just not representative with how Australians go about their daily lives. In Norway, EVs took the commanding 78% share of new car sales for November 2022, with Norwegians driving further than Aussies do in any given year. This thinking that EVs are ‘not yet suitable’ for Australian drivers is totally false.
Try this in Canada. There is a 1,000 kilometer stretch of the TransCanada Highway, the only continuous road from east to west, with zero cell service. How much EV infrastructure is there going to be? Also, when the sign says "Last Gas for 400 kilometers", believe it. In that 400 kilometers you will see nothing but "rocks, lakes, and bloody Christmas trees" as Northern Ontario was described by an English war bride. Where my brother lives there are two chargers in town and two in the next town on the way to Whitehorse. Trouble is there is no EV that can make it from Faro to Carcross without a stop. Oops. Plus electricity is expensive up there. $0.42 per kilowatt hour gets expensive in a hurry. Plus, as a bonus, when the electric grid suffers a break the town resorts to a massive diesel generator of limited capacity for a town of 250 households. Charging an EV would cause the whole backup system to fail.
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b I'd be one of those with a low daily average. I garage my car for about 6 months per year and go sailing. But when I'm back, I frequently do trips of about 800 to 1300 km to visit family. These trips are usually done either non stop or with just one fuel/lunch stop in my diesel car. For me, there's still no EV that would suit.
Paul, I just used ABRP for the old shits and giggles - here's a plan I did using the AWD version of the Kia EV6 Long Range . Trip starting in Dubbo, NSW and ending in Brisbane. QLD. Route is Dubbo to Brisbane - a distance of 885km. With a starting SoC of 100%, this trip would require 2 charging stops, both of which are at NRMA chargers. Charging stop 1 is in Tamworth - arrival SoC is 25%. Time to charge from 25% to 90% is one hour. Charge rate 47.3kWh . Charging stop 2 is at Tenterfield - arrival SoC is 10%. Time to charge from 10% to 70% is 56 minutes. Charge rate 44.1kWh. Arrival at Brisbane with 10% charge left..... in all fairness, no real range anxiety on this trip!
Unless you wish to explore off the route on your way and leaving 25% and 10% at each charger isn’t enough. EVs don’t allow anything but a fairly direct route. As soon as you want to go off the route on the way and explore - you’ll run out of battery. And we always explore on trips.
Love the video, the banter, the format, more of these please :) And shocked at the recharge prices of EV's. Perhaps an every day, one month around the home and the city comparison costs video. EV vs Petrol vs Deisel. Let's find the true cost of EV.
Far cheaper running an EV in the city (given regen). I also believe statistically a good percentage are home solar charged. Supercharger costs are also more expensive than council or Chargefox supplied chargers
I loved the two of you working together. Would love to see more videos like this. I think you really could have made it with more details as you went. The time cost etc. Thanks
I enjoyed this video. I was surprised to see the cost of the EV was almost the same as the diesel, even with the diesel at the high price its at. I would've assumed it would have been cheaper.
@@jonathanparle8429 a lot of us already have solar at home, and battery prices are going down, not up. I don’t think it’s that far of a stretch for most suburban families to have 1 EV as their smaller secondary car for the daily commute and a bigger PHEV SUV to cart the kids around or go for long weekend trips while the EV charges on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Far cheaper in the long run than $2/litre with two standard petrol cars.
@@jonathanparle8429 maybe worth it for better air quality in cities, no engine vibration/noise, less points of mechanical failure, semi-self driving cars
Diesel high price? It’s been over $2.38/ℓ here not long ago and is still around $2.33/ℓ. What they paid was cheap. I have solar and a Tesla Powerwall at home. Need the Powerwall to run the house overnight (and during an outage) and 13.5kWh won’t put Jack all into an EV. You’d need a massive solar array and 100kWh battery at home to fully support your house and 1 EV off grid.
@@jerrymyahzcat I'm not off grid, but have a 10kW solar system that is easily able to keep my car charged from excess solar. Worst case is that it costs me 8 cents per kWh for lost feed-in tariff (about $6 for a full charge). Even if I could only charge from the grid, it would cost me less than $20 for a full charge (500+ kms range).
Next - what would it be like stopping at charging points during peak holiday seasons? I wonder how long the overall travel time will be if there are many people in the qeue for a charge up?
Honestly for people that do long interstate trips, I think a PHEV or even a standard hybrid would be a much better bet as the main family car. Then an EV as the second smaller commuter car. It doesn’t really need to be all or nothing IMO.
@@User-cb4jm Funny you say that, cause whilst you are correct like Toyotas Hybrid philosophy… the EV crap being forced down many peoples gullets is far from real life!!
And how long are the queues during fossil fuel crises? When there isn’t any fuel available and people block roads for hours? That would be a fair comparison using your example.
I've done several trips in an EV from the Sunshine Coast to Melbourne during xmas holiday season and long weekends. This is in a Tesla, but the Tesla charger network will be opened up to all EVs before too long (it's already started in Europe and announced for USA). Charger locations were sometimes more that 50% occupied but never 100%, so no queueing. As in an ICE car, it's normal to stop regularly for a toilet and snack break in addition to topping up charge or fuel. A 20 minute charging break should add around 200km of range (and you don't have to hold the hose while you're charging 🙂). No need to charge to 100% - just enough to get to your next toilet-and-snack stop with a bit to spare. I should add that even at around 70 cents per kWh at Tesla chargers, Noosa to Melbourne only set us back around $80 for charging. And don't forget there are many motels with EV chargers you can stay at with complimentary charging. My daughter and I stayed in a cabin in a caravan park in Geelong. Each cabin had a van/trailer parking space with a 16 amp socket that could add 50% charge to your EV overnight at no cost. That's 250km range - not an insignificant fuel cost in an ICE car (even if you're hypermiling in a small diesel car like the Audi 🙂). That's for a road trip. If you have a parking space with a power point where you live, and pay 25c per kWh for energy, $20 will get you 300-500 kms driving range (or much more if you have solar panels and can charge at home during the day).
Fast chargers are expensive, but useful for the occasional long trip, for the vast majority of people for the vast majority of journeys you will charge your car at home whilst you’re asleep for a fraction of the price.
Great video clearly demonstrates in simple stats that ice and ev vehicles excel in different ways it's hard to beat an ice on the hwy, but ev will dominate in stop start city commutes. So buy in line with what U do most often and I'll be happy! This video shows the penalty for an ev in hwy use, which is still not quite ideal yet.
Also, I imagine it would be a lot cheaper if you have somewhere to charge overnight at home such as a garage, to charge in off peak electricity if you mostly stay local and only do local trips.
Fast charging on trips is expensive (excluding free 50kw DC chargers). A Tesla M3 LR is about 10.3c a kilometer on AU highways. If you plan ahead and stay where there's destination chargers (free) you're better off.
As someone who's not commuting to work everyday, doesn't have solar panels, loves long road trips and likes to go off the beaten path, EVs don't make much sense as a daily driver. But if I had solar panels, and had to commute daily, a cheaper/smaller ev as a second car would probably be cheaper. I'm just not sure about the long term costs, and if there is an expensive battery replacement a few years down the line. Or the cheaper regular running costs will balance it out in the long run.
The main issues here are the cost (EV isn’t cheap enough yet in Australia - needs to be half the cost that it was) and due to range and charging options, you can’t take side roads or back roads and go exploring off the main roads which I always like to do. On a trip we don’t often just drive the shortest or fastest route. Also that trip would have cost me about $230 of premium 95 petrol in my 4cyl Turbo SUV. A detour in an EV could easily be disastrous too depending how far you have to detour and how much you charged it. Like fuel - it’s never sensible to only put in “just enough” which the EV route planners seem to offer.
@@ritarumihaela543 Where do you live? Alice Springs? There is petrol stations everywhere. Since when plug in for 4-12 hours is a good thing? Just watch bjorn video where he have to rescue alot of EV driver in highway and wait for 45 min using backup batteries or his car just to make them survived to the next charging stations. You can call road side assistance if you run out of fuel, I doubt they want to wait for 1 hour charging your empty EV. They just tow your car.
I note that the costs of charging were frequently 60c/kWh or 40c/kWh which is much more than is paid for charging at home, particularly for people charging from their own solar. So the cost of a long trip is comparable with a very fuel efficient diesel. However, diesels are acknowledged to be environmentally damaging due to their non-CO2 emissions. Driving around town which is where most driving is done by most people is much cheaper with EVs. My EV costs me about $3 per 100km compared with $14 for my 2017 Corolla when petrol is cheap up to $18 when petrol is more expensive.
They are showing road trip conditions which evs are not as good for in australia and the infrastructure of charging points, lithium mining is environmentally damaging. And the time chargeing is rubbish
I used to have a plugin hybrid with 50km (35-40 real) range and a 2500km trip I could do in 20-22hrs. Which is doable in one go. Over this year I've been chatting with EV users whilst travelling because I wanted to replace it with an EV. Given current infrastructure, using something like the EV6 I would have to add anything between 3hrs (if only fast charging) to 7hrs (more realistic as the routes don't always have fast charging). This would turn a trip into almost 30hrs and a not very feasible endeavour to do in one go. In the end I went for another plugin hybrid with 100km of range, which so far looks like the best of both worlds for my use case.
Impressive video, thank you so much for the production. 1. EVs can perform long distance driving. 2. EVs aren't necessarily cheaper to run, assuming charging isn't free. If you think it's better for the environment, please take how the electricity is produced in the country into consideration as well. 3. EVs can actually be charged anywhere even from a wall plug! If EVs really run out of juice, knock on a household and hope for the best.
The original primary rationale for EVs was the lower emissions (daily use) impact to the environment. This test demonstrates the importance of unbiased and fact-based cradle to grave information to assess the true value of transitioning to EV vehicles. I am a strong proponent of no banning of petrol vehicles but allowing both to exist as options. Over time cost savings and other factors will determine the best option. Great review.
@Chris I totally agree. there is so much BS without real world data on how much it costs to produce these batteries, how are thet being mined? where are they being mined? what is the environmental cost to produce? what is the cost when the batteries reach end of life? How is the governent going to make up the shortfall in revenues from fuel duties and tax? I really think we need to take a step back and look ay a proper mixed strategy rather than running headlong into EV's. By mixed I mean, Petrol, Hybrid, EV's, Hydrogen and even the new synthetic fuels being developed.
Good report CarExpert, Alborz is a natural and Paul is a gifted presenter. It's more costly to charge an EV off EVIE, Chargefox, Tesla than it is from home. Much more (around 4 x times more) so if you're not doing long road trips EVs are vastly cheaper to run. No mention of emissions as a metric of performance. As the planet warms up due to greenhouse gasses this needs be part of the narrative IMHO.
EVs are good for slow driving. City and dense area driving. While diesel is good for long journey. That's why EVs are very popular in crowded country like China
Lets be honest, that distance is a one stop for most current cars. Plus 2 1/2hrs quicker. But if you're on holidays, then not a biggie. Says a lot that current EV networks still need investment. Nice work guys.
Yay! Greyhound! ❤ Oh, yeah, great video too guys, very helpful. While ICEs are on their way out, it seems diesel still remains viable option for longer runs, for now at least! I guess around home the EV would be better cost wise.
This was an interesting one guys, but highlights differences between countries. The Audi Q5 achieved 60.5mpg (imperial) which is remarkable but what would the results have been with a more economic vehicle? For comparison, here in the UK I have achieved a best figure of 83.3mpg in my Octavia 2.0TDI at 110kph which equates to 3.39lt/100km so your journey would have taken 48.13lt at a cost of A$101.02. There are only 14 350kw charging stations in the UK at present, the rest are mainly 50kw so you can see that charging is a much slower process for now, your 70kw charge at 350 in theory takes 12 minutes, but on a 50kw charge would take 85 minutes.
In regards to time spent charging, on this trip can you list out the charge locations, time spent charging and $ spent at each stop? Maybe even with your charge % from start and end of each charge.
Also, the problem with charging is having to fuck around with apps and activating sessions, provided they work ok ( Except Tesla). Then, worrying is those chargers work properly or at all. By the time you fuck around activating a charger, I already pumped gas and I'm gone.
That was an interesting challenge, however, if we are just talking about cost then drive a common car at normal speeds and see what the cost is. On another note, the internal combustion engine has had far more development over the last 100 years whereas the EV is still very new. Batteries will improve and and electric motors will become more efficient. I don't think EV's are ready for Australian conditions yet as if you were towing or had a bigger load, the range is seriously compromised. It'd be interesting to do this challenge again in 5 or 10 years time.
Amazing video again Paul! Thanks for that as always! The next one I reckon you should show us is an everyday driving in city in peak hour commuting, school drop offs & pick ups, etc. It would be a good comparison as ev seems to perform better in a heavy traffic environment.
You asked! This was only entertainment, not really useful... Please do a proper real-world test: Optimal route (fastest), both cars going the speed limit/following traffic, aircon on etc. All of the things we use while actually driving, and LIKE we drive. Then the question is: How much time is it still faster to use ICE compared to new charging options (350 kW) and then you can also add cost.
Don't need a video, just use the ABRP app as mentioned in the video, it is extremely accurate. For instance putting my Tesla M3 LR details into the app there is 1hr and 56mins of charging time involved driving from centre of Adelaide to the centre of Sydney allowing for a 10% buffer arriving in Sydney. How much of that 1hr 56mins you want to save driving an ICE car is up to the individual.
I enjoyed the banter more than anything, very entertaining! When you factor in maintenance costs between the 2 along with all of the info from this test, it seems like a wash at the moment. As EV's continue to evolve I won't be surprised to see them overtake ICE. Either way, I am seriously considering an EV for my next vehicle because they will inevitably become the norm.
There is a reason trucks use diesel. It's incredibly efficient at highway speeds. Ev are the opposite. Efficient in city driving and inefficient at highway driving. It really depends how often you do long trips. I personally enjoy long trips in an ev. Charging breaks up the trip and super charging is fast. I have done a few long road trips using the tesla network and it is confidence inspiring. Unfortunately I can't say the same for the other charging networks. However, if you live in nsw you will be pleased to hear a massive investment in an open charging network.. coming soon... it's impressive.
Okay, this was the video the world was waiting for. Even though this was made in Australia, this video is going to spark debates world over. Great job dude. Liked & Subscribed!
@@admol73 what comparison you want? Typical I work 10 min from my house, and free charging at home because I have solar panels plus battery type of comparison? Oh wait how about buying plug in hybrid. Or even better electric bike?
Just my estimate based on my RAV4 I usually get around 5.5L/100km at 110kmh, that would be around 77L for 1400km trip. With cheap U91 around 60c cheaper than Diesel that would be around $112.42. Last month I did a trip Sydney -> Wagga Wagga -> Canberra -> Sydney 1,200 km and ends up with 6.09L/100km but at full load (4 adults + 1 toddler + pram + heaps of luggage, boot filled to the brim). 5.5L/100km with only me in the RAV4 is easy.
@@bobateacuber7646 Hybrid is still approx 5-10% more efficient on highway compared to petrol with similar performance. The battery is there to capture wasted power from inverter to run AC for example, and Toyota Hybrid can occasionally coast on EV on highway. Not ground breaking but yes it's still more efficient.
No surprise for me. Diesel is still the cheapest, more reliable, and faster way to travel. And, I would also say, the cleanest and more environmental frendly.
Hi I'm going to be a bit of a Karen on this one. First its a great comparison if you are after one of these cars and only want to drive a 90km/h on our national highways getting up everybody's nose i.e the Audi. In real life the Audi would be doing 120 km/h and using more fuel and the overall cost would be more, also the cost of the diesel you quote at 2.03 seems very cheap to what i see in Canberra/South coast which is more like 2.34 which again would make the Audi more expensive. I don't know if i am missing the point of the comparison but if most people are going to buy a EV they are replacing a older car that they own, for the real world cheaper running costs. For me personally i have replaced my 2.0L turbo petrol engine car with a Tesla model Y. In this comparison the fuel bill for my ICE car would have been double to what you state as my ICE car gets 9l/100km and have only ever used 98 octane in it. The other item you don't mention is time, how long was the trip, how long did you stop for charging at each charge point. Again real world, the ICE car would be much quicker in time as is wouldn't have to fill up as often but would cost more in fuel whereas the EV car would take longer due to the charging spots but defiantly cheaper Yes it a bit of a rant but I don't think this comparison is anywhere near a real world scenario To me every time someone does a ICE car to EV car comparison they always get the most modern fuel efficient ICE car they can, where is the comparison with a Mercedes AMG, Holden Commodore, Ford Falcon and Kia EV 6 or any EV car???
yep wish the guy in the audi just didnt stop unless he had to for food or to go to the toilet so we could see how many hours ahead he would be of the ev and they probably shouldnt have jacked up the pressures as much and i wish the actually did the same distance instead of the audi doing 20 more k's
Then compare your model y performance to Lexus NX 450. It can charge in you big mansion with solar panels and batteries. It can run most of you commute in batteries only, it can be fill within min in petrol stations. Similar price, and most of all Toyota /lexus quality.
1,400 km/870 miles is a single day, single fuel/rest room stop, drive in the Ram 2500 diesel (6.7L with 35 us gallon tank) that I recently sold. It's replacement, coming until later this year, has a 48 gallon diesel tank (also 6.7L diesel). Diesel is expensive for us right now at $4.50 per US gallon/3.78L.
It's true that charging on road trips can add up, but you can charge at home for very little (essentially nothing, other than forgoing a pittance for the feed in tariff, for half the year if you have solar panels) but you can't have an oil rig and refinery at home. I have clocked up 42,201 km in my Model 3 Performance, including plenty of country trips (back and forth between Melbourne and Mildura multiple times, road trip in Tassie etc) but have only paid $387.38 on charging away from home. I try to pick accommodation that has a charger or at least a power plug outside so that I can fill up overnight for free.
So the Q5 managed 4.4L/100km - great result. What was the average speed over that distance for the audi? ~80km/h? Do you know perhaps how much would it would burn at 110km/h?
@@Cashewnutter112 I haven't been more than three hours yet but it is such a quieter and more blissful space in an EV and it chargers 10-80% in under 20 min. Both commented on the better option to do it in given the choice was the EV. All that experience they had on a long trip and you have shown no knowledge by such exaggerated time quotes make you worthless to come back and talk with so no thanks. You can stay in the past while others around you may move forward. Good luck.
@Anubizz slayer I partly agree and tried to order one for my tow vehicle but can't get hold of one at the moment. The main issue with them is not only do you have the best of both, you also have the worst of both, meaning heavy and still having engines and gearboxes to service. Can't wait until we have a whole country system that has transitioned, but until then, no matter what way you go, you are compromising and sacrificing something. For me, it will be a foot in both camps for a while with a diesel and a BEV.
Definitely want to see a real world comparison where there is no trying to conserve fuel or energy and then see how it works out in terms of cost and time to complete the journey. No unnecessary pity stops.
Great video guys, I think it’s worth saying that most people do a trip on this scale fairly infrequently with the bulk of ev charging normally being done in peoples homes at a much lower $ rate or even free from solar. This is where the real cost savings come versus petrol or diesel.
I couldn't get the numbers to add up, with charging being so expensive. Then I just realized that Australia just has insanely cheap diesel and expensive electricity. In Finland that same trip would have cost 126 euro in the diesel and 75 euros in the EV. The difference would be 75-80 in AUD. And that is with all public charging - You would save about 25 euro more if you assume that half of the charging (1/4 at beginning and end) is at home. So in Finland that would mean that the cost of the EV is only 2/5 of the diesel. But this was specific to Australia of course... just a bit weird pricing on the diesel and electricity.
I think this is a little misleading. Certainly EV fast charging on the highways isn't cheap, but there doesn't seem to be an acknowledgement that charging at home is MUCH cheaper, which if you owned an EV is likely what you'd be doing most - not relevant specifically for the highway test, but since EVs copped a sledge at the end about being more expensive to buy and run, it might've been nice to mention the equation changes substantially when you don't need to rely on the public chargers, which for many will be most of the time.
So, how much TIME did you spend charging the EV? The ICE car spent NO time refuelling until the end, when it would take maybe 5 minutes to fill up? I drive Melbourne/Sydney/Melbourne and fuel up in Sydney and when I get back to Melbourne. No need to stop along the way so it is an 8 hour trip each way. In an EV, how long would it take, including maybe waiting to use a recharger?
Why? It’s not like a petrol car. It doesn’t idle. It doesn’t draw power unless ac is on. Even then probably less that 1% battery an hour to power that. Unless you’re stuck in traffic for days and days it won’t be an issue.
@@The123Orion123 they do have low idle but if I’m stuck somewhere in the summer heat requiring the aircon and maybe some other conveniences, then it’s an issue for me. True petrol or diesel engines are a problem if low on fuel but they never seem to be critically low as often as EV’s so I’m less anxious in that regard.
Interesting comparison. Thing is, my 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis withe the 351 (5.8 litre) Windsor V8 would have required one fuel stop on the way. That car could do 1,000 kilometers on a single fill. Even my 1990 Volvo 240 wagon would have needed 2 stops. I have driven that distance in a single day between breakfast and dinner. In a 79 Ford Thunderbird, and with one fuel stop to top up the 80 litre tank. The time spent recharging is nuts, as is the whole idea of only carrying enough power to get to the next charging point. What happens if the next one is broken and the nearest is another 100 km away? A realistic comparison is charging to 100% every time, because that is how a normal vehicle is refueled and adds a significant margin of safety. That is very important here in Ontario. The distances are by far too vast to be taking chances.
Interesting test. It really highlights that in Australia we should be promoting plugin hybrids to allow hassle free travels anywhere outside city's. Untill EV’s can travel at least 500 to 600km at highway speeds in all conditions, they are not really an option for travelling in Australia. Great in the city but then they should be a much smaller vehicle to save all that extra energy. We really have lost the plot on this issue.
@@bazza2540 Those who push EV’s so hard. At the moment they really only have about half the range of an ICE when travelling on the open road. As I see it EV’s have three very big disadvantages. Firstly charging times are far to slow and there are not enough charging points outside major centers, as highlighted here. Secondly they need a tow truck when they run out of energy which can happen because of diversions caused by flood, fire or an accident, as was the case in this test. Thirdly if a high percentage of people take up EV’s, our grids are not designed to handle the extra demand thats going to be placed on them. I think Hybrids are a great option but then the plugin hybrid offers the added advantage of operating as an EV in daily commutes. Toyota offers the RAV4 as a plugin overseas, but because we are so stupid here, they don’t import them. There is no doubt, long term EV’s will be the go, but only when they can travel a greater distance and be charged more quickly,which I think should happen this decade.
Seems 60 cents per kWh is pretty normal for paid fast chargers. That Kia was using 20 kWh per 100, so $12 per 100km. The diesel was getting 4.8 litre/100km, but he was driving slower than normal. At similar speeds to the Kia he might get 6/100 @ $2.10 a litre that's $12.60 per 100km.
Real world comparison: I drove this exact same route in a Mazda CX-5 diesel (fully loaded with passengers and luggage) earlier this year, driven at the speed limit. The cost of diesel at the time was $2.10. the cost of fuel for my trip was $186.84. Paul's empty EV6 was $125.56.
Great video. I'd love to see a similar video, but measuring the cost comparison for a young family picking up kids from school, going to woolies, driving to work. Lots of short trips around the city or town. Thanks Paul & team
Will be an easy win for an EV. A diesel or petrol car won’t get anywhere near 4.5lt/100ks. While EV’s are more efficient with that sort of driving compared to long distance
Exactly what I was thinking! What you described is 95% of the driving that most people do! Almost feels like this video was sponsored by fossil fuel companies and/or ICE car manufacturers that can't scale EV production as fast as Tesla.
@@cai0 :D yeah. I think we know the EV would win, but it would be nice to see how it performs. Could expand the series into comparing how other EVs perform against each other.
Good call. The vast majority of people make trips such as this very, very infrequently. If the channel were genuinely interested in helping people make an informed choice they would set up tests that more closely matched the driving that people actually do.
Love the comparison and would like to see more of them between petrol efficiency and EV's I drive from Orange to Port Macquarie nonstop in my ancient petrol 2019 2.5ltr manual Mazda 3 Astina hatch averaging 5.8l/100k in 6hr45min and have more fun than a crappy EV
@@timorum actually I have driven a few and not having an engine note is one 🙅🏻♂️ having to stop and plug in is bloody annoying. The costs aren’t an issue for me, maybe my stubbornness of I don’t give a 🤬 stops me from buying one. I prefer a manual and YES before you trumpet 🎺 your response with they are becoming obsolete I’m aware of that. I have no issue with the 3 the 2.5ltr propels the car along quite well and it has plenty of safety tech. Enjoy your power point and most of them aren’t wonderful to look at. In a few years when the things have a decent range and regionally we have more infrastructure I might consider one. Turning up to a charging station and you have to wait In a queue no thanks 🙅🏻♂️ I’d rather take my normal seat in business class ✈️
Our 10 year old Audi Q5 (2 litre) between Sydney & Brisbane did 6.6litres/100km last week.(less than 1 tank of fuel). This included Aircon and 2 people with cruise control at the speed limit usually 110km. (Engine had been adjusted since Audi emissions scandal). You guys got 4.8litres/100km. I wonder how much we'd save if we had driven slower ?
The newer Audi Q5s are equipped with DSG and Quattro Ultra, while the old Q5 has an AT and Quattro Thorsen, and it is actually expected to see you on 6.6/100km. The old Q5 is considered to have a better and realiable transmission and AWD system and is also heavier than the new ones.
Keen to see this again, but about travel duration. If Alborz had done the speed limit and taken a direct route, would have been good to see how much time difference there would be between the ICE and the EV.
It costs more to run, it takes longer to fill and you pay more for the car? How is that the future. We people here in a third world country are doomed. Back to horses and bicycles I guess, not too bad now that I mentioned it. 👍👌
Majority of Ev’s are charged at home from solar. So first tank from Adelaide should have been free and the arrival at Sydney should have had you arriving at a friends for a free charge. Be interesting to see the Audi consumption at the speed limit? I drove from Broadbeach to Melbourne for just over $50 charging at the resort fully before I left and using NRMA chargers and over night stays to top up for free.. When you are not in a hurry you can find many power points. Great video.. public charger rates will come down when competition kicks in..I see many Tesla’s chasing cheaper rates than the super. Charges. More video’s like this please.
NO, the 1st charge from home is not free, even many houses have solar system but hardly any has battery system, you would be still charging your EV over night from power of the grid. You may not be paying for charging at a friend's house, but it does not mean that it is free. It's surprising that for long trip driving, an EV costs similar to an efficient diesel car. There is still a lot to improve for EVs as well as the charging system, but now petrol/diesel cars are still the way to go. Great video to show these facts of the real world driving.
This shows the problem with EVs here in Straya. We have less charging stations and expensive charging stations. With no rebates buying an electric car, people will not choose EVs any time soon.
Very interesting, but I won’t be going electric any time soon in regional AUS. Electric is a con in any case if you look at the true environmental impact of building an E car
Nice video Paul, with very surprising results. Now will be liter harder for pro electric car. In my opinion, electric car is it a pleasure to drive: quiet, instant torque, very easy to over take , one pedal drive and very cheap to run if you charge at home, perfect for work commuter and pleasure trips. But for business trips , always I use the diesel one, is no stress about charging infrastructure. I was a diesel man and now I own one electric car together with a diesel car.
What is the average income of EV buyers compared to the rest of society? Should those be getting subsidies? How many humans or working class people own a house with a garage? How are they gonna charge their EVs after coming home from work? How much more expensive to buy are EVs compared to normal cars? What is the average price of the private vehicles purchased in your (any) country? What effects do higher prices have on the sales of the vehicles? What effects does cheap and convenient transport have on the working class's ability to find (well paid) jobs? Is there any public transport going to the industrial zones placed outside of cities very early in the morning to get there before 07.00 ? What are "subsidies" and who pays for them ? What is an Ice age or Milankovich cycle? Are mRNA vaccines with Lipid nanoparticles "safe" and how "effective" they are considering the numbers of australian covid fatalities compared to another countries in 2020 before any vacc. ? Do you know what means "proportionaly"?
Thanks for the vid guys, I think the one thing to mention which would have made the EV trip cost way cheaper. The normal EV owner such as myself would have charged to capacity at home before leaving and when arriving back. So those two costs should actually be removed from your total cost. I have never yet, gone to a supercharger to charge before leaving for a road trip. The normal procedure for me is, charge the car over night before leaving in the morning.
Thanks for the great feedback everybody! Glad you enjoyed the video - it was all for a bit of fun. A lot of you asked about the hybrid support car. It was carrying a stack of gear and spare wheels - it used 7.8L/100km over 1429km. Total cost for fuel was $211, which was around $.147/km.
Hope it was 'fun', because it wasn't a travel cost comparison (tire pressure should have both been at recommended)
@@ScottMcDonald-ck6qn Definitely was fun! As we said in the video - realistically, the diesel would have just fuelled within 4 minutes and not stopped, which would have made for a boring video.
@@ScottMcDonald-ck6qn You think that makes a difference? Even if it doubled the consumption it would have taken less than a five minute top up to refill.
How about next time they get driven at the same speeds so we can see the real difference?
Most people don't know that in really good turbo diesel engine, the fuel economy at 55 mph is same as at 85mph ! So going slow doesn't make much difference. Going slow does make a difference in petrol engine cars ....
Ex Diesel BMW 320D driver
Perth to Sydney next!!
I feel a lot of people will unnecessarily spend a lot more on food whilst waiting longer at charge up stations with an EV.
That’s on their own lack of self control isn’t it, though? I’m always surprised at the number of people that pay servo/vending machine prices for a single chocolate bar or drink that will get you a multipack at Coles to last you the whole week. But nah they don’t think that far ahead and MUST have it now.
Which is actually bad for their health if they don’t eat good food tbh!
It’s a 870 mile long trip. They both should be stopping to eat and drink.
And boredom
Good one, guys. Interesting
Every diesel car owner I talked with love their diesols. great MPG, longevity, and low cost. To bad they are sold in CA anymore.
I'm not sure the results were surprising - long trip with highway driving puts the combustion car in its most efficient scenario against an EV in its least efficient scenario - 1400km in city driving would be interesting. It was an enjoyable video and good to see there is actually enough chargers to do the trip albeit the infrastructure still has a long way to go. Maybe a Sydney to Brisbane run up the Pacific Highway where charger accessibility should be a bit better......
The urban test wouldn't have to based on the trip distance though, just run around until the deisel stops from lack of fuel, then compare the cost. EV is going piss all over ICE and take. Dump on the bonnet.
@@stevelloyd5785 and then compare the the cost Vs charging at home on cheap off peak rates
So people don't do highway driving then... Of course they do.
Highway driving is so bad on electric vehicles lol
Highway driving is so bad on electric vehicles lol
The Q5 managed to do 1429km on a single fuel tank? That's remarkable, even if we take into account the slow speed. Great comparison vid guys
yeah, that was the most impressive part of the video tbh.
65mpg in a midsize SUV is pretty good. There aren’t many hatchbacks that can manage that and fewer that can beat it. A tonne of hybrids won’t manage that.
@@adammcallister2260 i'm guessing those 65mpg equates to those 4.8l/100km shown in the video for us europeans, and i don't really know many cars, not even hatchbacks or small sized suvs that can do that. I can barely do that on my Hyundai Tucson or Toyota Verso or a friends Seat Ibiza
@@iarnedo18 And the real calculated was a tad under 4.4l/100km! That's really good.
@@iarnedo18 I'm doing 4-4.5 l/100km on my 2016 diesel Jetta, so 4.8 is impressive for an SUV, but quite normal for mid size diesel car.
Thanks boys, that looked like a lot of fun but I would like to see you do a similar run without traveling at reduced speed to save fuel or battery range in those vehicles. Give us a real life comparison of them at normal highway speed and without trying to better each other.
I enjoyed the hyper miling. 4.4l/100km is amazing for that size car and mountainous terrain
I'd say if we did that it'd be a pretty quick conclusion - don't buy an EV for long distance drives if you want to arrive on time!
@@CarExpertAus Sure, that’s a given, but what about the cost comparison when you are trying to get from A to B in the shortest amount of time and you are not trying to save fuel or extend battery mileage in the two cars? Would the costs still be as close as they were? I would have thought the EV would be cheaper to run under those circumstances?
@@F1Tragic Yes I thought this was a quite dishonest test designed to come up with a particular conclusion. Get a very efficient ICE car and hypermile it. Drive an EV as inefficiently as possible (i.e. fast) so that you need to charge more often (and yes, slipstreaming DOES significantly reduce energy consumption - more so in an EV than an ICE car since most of the energy in the fuel used by an ICE car goes into the atmosphere as wasted heat). Energy required to overcome wind resistance is proportional to the square of the frontal area of the vehicle, requring about 80% more energy at 120kph than at 90 kph (and I bet the Kia has a bigger frontal area than the little Audi). I just looked at the charging network along the trip route (ABRP and PlugShare) and there seems to be pretty good supply of fast (or fastish) chargers on the way. If you were planning the trip, you would find a place to stay overnight that had a charger (e.g. there are many motels with Tesla destination chargers, and many of these are not restricted to Tesla vehicles only). So a 1400 km trip over 2 days is 700 km per day, so can do this with 1 (maybe 2) stops per day plus an overnight charge at the motel.
@@CarExpertAus Maybe. But by how much? If it's a difference of 2 hours, then who cares? If it's a difference of 20 though... That's a whole other story. I think it's a valid question to ask, and a test awaiting!
A similar experiment was done in the UK by a journalist on his TH-cam channel. It turned out that the electric was even more expensive by £5 compared to the diesel. So with fuel prices and electric costs, buying an ev doesn't make economical sense. As for me I will stick with combustion engines until the foreseeable future
Yeah depending on your daily usage of the car you might not like to need to charge all the time because a single full tank of diesel is good for 1000km+
It's not a great comparison, you are paying a huge premium to fast charge. You don't buy an EV to do long, motorway driving. That's common sense.
@@beno9966 Electricity prices have gone up through the roof in the UK so you can't dare take your ev on long trips
@@alanmay7929 I agree
Surely had you gone the more popular main route you'd have had to wait for other EV drivers to charge their cars and you'd have lost by a long, long way.
Not really - on popular roads it's usually large charging hubs, with 4, 6, 8 chargers in one location.
@@wojciechmuras553 not really - there's usually only a couple more hubs but many more people
But going from Adelaide to Sydney via hay (which many stay the night at on such a trip) is the most common, shortest and direct route.
Oh that's right go via broken Hill and carry a Jerry can of extra electricity
I have to admit I was stunned at the cost of charging. Almost the same as the diesel. I expected $30-50.
And diesel is super expensive
@@alanmay7929 Diesel is at the top of the price mountain, which means it may go down in the future, while the electric charging price may go up subject to the market demand and subsidy decrease.
When I got my ev charging cost about £13 for 200 miles on the road and about £3 at home. Now though, prices have gone through the roof on the road. It’s only £4-5 at home still though.
@A CDE the 209.9 that was quoted for diesel is nowhere near the current price for diesel in Sydney though. The last month or so, diesel has been in the 235 region
Charging at home would be $50 on a standard tariff, or as little as $10 charging on solar. You pay a premium for fast chargers die to their charging speed, but but most EV owners only use them a few times a year.
Would've liked if both of them are doing representative method of comparison.
If one is trying to save as much fuel compared to how they normally would, and the other trying to go as far as the battery level would allow, it's not representative.
We won't know how much fuel it really takes, or how much longer do they need to stay to charge relatively comfortably. I mean, there's a lot to do in long distance driving besides just driving.
Agreed. Would have been good to see how much longer it may have taken if the IC car was going at regular speeds and stopping for fuel. Nobody drives at 90km on the highway so it isn't a representative experience of actual life. Please re-do the challenge going however you would normally following whatever route you like. (Typically shortest / fastest).
Fact is, if you adhere to the recommended rest periods of all Australian state road/traffic authorities of 15-20 minutes rest per 2 hours of driving...the EV and the diesel will take the exact same amount of time to make just about any trip
This was literally a worst case scenario for EV vs a best case scenario for turbo diesel.
EV's shine around the suburbs in stop-start driving where they charge at home at ~15c/kwh.....they are their most inefficient at highway speeds, then paying 50-60c/kwh at fast charge stations tilts the odd further in the turbo diesels favour....the fact that the EV still came out ontop is a testament to how great they are really
@@harleyjones5200 "But I drive 1000 miles every day without stopping for rest or food..." - Average EV opponent explaining why stopping for charging even for 10 minutes is totally unacceptable. I wish I was joking... someone actually suggested they can just pee in a bottle so they don't need to take breaks...
So, yeah, last I heard not taking breaks is actually illegal in most countries, at least for professional drivers. And nobody drives that long or often unless it is for work. So the number of legal reasons why anyone would drive like that is pretty low, even lower when we consider that these people are not talking about vans or semis but cars like Teslas...
@@harleyjones5200 Then buy plug in hybrid. It's EV that always overblown its advantages. If I need to take a rest while road trip I want to stop and eat in the place I want to go, not resting in charging station and eating rubbish food around it. Not to mention there always worry in the back of my mind if the nest charging station broke or not.
Next one should be an urban challenge between these cars. It'd be interesting to quantify the difference between a diesel and an EV when stop start driving is involved.
Yeah, this scenario was pretty much designed for a diesel car to do well.
However, most people buy Diesel cars and drive around the city 95% of the time, doing school drop offs, leaving the engine running in carparks for the aircon (Brisbane), etc.
Diesel consumption would be at least double of that on the highway, and if you happen to have solar power at home, like many people do these days, you get FREE fuel for your EV.
Also, car servicing is basically nothing for EVs.
Include at home charging at the lowest night rate as well
and taking in account the oil changes, brake pads, and the number of times my modern Audi engine displayed en error and the limp modes, and the cost of diagnostic.. and the time it takes for the heater to work in winter... and the fact that I average 6 to 10l/100 on a good day... whilst my EV manages 12KW at 90Kmh and even less in city traffic and I do not get ripped off at highway chargers.
@@cai0 Who drives diesel in city? That is not bright idea by any stretch of imagination. I hated to drive my diesel when i drove between 2 cities (17km) and swapped to petrol (now back in diesel because 214km on highway every day). Diesel is for truck or highways, petrol ...depends what kind of petrol. Hybrids are for city and at least some out of city driving
@@cronuscronus forget about night rates, the whole point of an ev (for me) is that I'm generating a ton of solar
Enjoyed this video. One thing to remember is that Alborz probably paid $50 in road tax with the fuel cost that supposedly goes towards maintaining the roads we use. Nothing from EV’s as yet. Still to come 😁
Unless you're in Victoria! I pay an EV tax for our Model Y to help support roads, infrastructure and government spend.
2.6c/km for EVs in VIC, and 2.1c/km for PHEVs
Fuel excise does not go to road maintenance, it goes into general revenue and the full amount is nowhere near used on roads
@@bofty Yep. It sure does. Nobody said the full amount does - but fuel excise absolutely supports road infrastructure.
This video highlights some of the issues you can run into with an EV. Unplanned problems like, closed roads, detours, traffic jams and lack of fast charging etc. Ive had an EV but i sold it, went back to Diesel. I planned a trip where i always had 5-10% range spare. At the first charger, none of the 6 fast chargers worked due software problems/connection to the internet or whatever the heck it was. I therefore had to detour to a small town with a super slow 22kW AC charger to get enough juice for the next stop. When i reach the 2nd charge stop, there was a 1 hour queue as all the stalls where taken with a large queue expanding by the minute. Last charge stop was the worst, the planned charger had been removed and was not updated as been removed, i searched all over town for a charger but all of them where either offline or having connection issue/app issues - after an hour searching i found a motel that had mercy on me and let my charge without staying at the motal. I have never been so frustrated in my entire life and after 1 year i could not take it anymore and sold it. I would split the blame into these categories - 10% buggy car software, 20% bad range and 70% terrible/unreliable chargers and lack there of.
Wow! The EV6 was still cheaper than the Q5 even though the most expensive fast-chargers were used and the Q5 was driven at a snail's pace. Plus the EV6 would be cleaner, quieter, safer, more performance and better tech 😁
Really great comparison Paul. I have owned diesel vehicles since 2006 purely as I love the grunt of the Torque in the Diesel engines and the range in fuel that is achieved compared to petrol vehicles. I would eventually like to upgrade to an EV SUV in time, but I think our governments need to invest in better infrastructure especially regionally. Living in Bendigo and doing a lot of country driving, there is not enough stability yet with various options with some towns only having 1 charger….I bet it would suck if you had to recharge in a town and the one and only charger wasn’t working. It was great to see your comparison that highlights an efficient Diesel engine driven for ‘range’ compared to ‘performance’ will give you a comparable price margin on the 2 vehicles. Given the diesel was on par to the EV without the need to wait around for the car to recharge and the need to have to plan your trip based on where you can recharge, it seems the diesel was the winner for the day. Given the price differential between an EV and a Diesel SUV, I reckon it will be at least 5-10 years before I buy an EV and I hope in that time their is a boost to the infrastructure regionally. Thanks for doing this review in real time. I will be hoping to see more EV improvements in the future. Jeff
Exactly well said and my thoughts are the same. This test shows EVs at this moment are great around the big cities, regional areas will have to wait to catch up with infrastructure before EVs become mainstream.
Same thoughts here. Eventually will upgrade to EV, but will most likely wait for at least 5 years to set a much more reliable infrastructure across Australia. And perhaps during that time with improvements in technology will even have better and more efficient batteries to accommodate for more range and even faster charging.
Encourage Ampol to invest in your area - they are rolling out EV charging throughout the country as we speak. Hopefully this will put pressure on BP & Shell to do likewise
@@Hindsight_2020__1 Good point, but don't forget that all Caltex-branded servos are actually owned by Ampol and are in the process of being rebranded back to Ampol as Caltex exits the servo business.
Yes charging infrastructure is key. But also don't forget that if you have a powerpoint in your carport or garage at home then you can charge your car there (and for much less than at a public charger). A 16 amp socket should get you at least 50% charge (200+ kms range) overnight for $10 or less.
A more useful comparison would be based on how people actually use their vehicles (vast majority of distance covered is not on 800 road trips) and using hone as well as commercial charging. The results would be more useful
I was a bit annoyed that you guys were supposed to be doing a comparison, yet ran lower tyre pressures in the EV, and drove much faster overall (I do realise to make up time). Both economy killing things.
I was surprised at how much the DC fast charging cost added up. I'm a bit spoilt with an early Tesla with free Supercharging and almost exclusively charge at home, so I've only needed to use a paid public DC once. So far I've spent $15 in fast charging in 5 years.
This is a real world example. Thank you
@cai0 no its not. Nothing is real world or fair playing field
Well I assume at home is free to because you have big house with big solar panels and batteries?
@@anubizz3 No home batteries, but enough solar capacity to produce more than the car consumes for our needs.
Good video team. EVs, at this point in time, are most suitable for short-distance urban driving, not traversing the vast expanse that is Australia's regions.
As car markets evolve overtime to incorporate more and more EVs, it will be the cities where it is more pronounced.
given that most people don't really drive to the other side of the continent on a weekly basis and EVs can still do it that one time a year, why exactly aren't they suitable? sure, the fact that they had to use 2 50kW chargers means the charging infrastructure needs an update. but they can do it.
I mean we have better tech in Formula E and longer range in Lucid. We definitely can make a car that can drive for long range and charge in under 5 minutes, it’s just expensive at the moment. It will definitely come to our smaller EVs. Kinda like how Mercedes brought some tech from Formula 1 into cheaper cars over time.
The average daily distance driven by an Australian is only 33km. This extreme 1400km exercise is just not representative with how Australians go about their daily lives. In Norway, EVs took the commanding 78% share of new car sales for November 2022, with Norwegians driving further than Aussies do in any given year. This thinking that EVs are ‘not yet suitable’ for Australian drivers is totally false.
Try this in Canada. There is a 1,000 kilometer stretch of the TransCanada Highway, the only continuous road from east to west, with zero cell service. How much EV infrastructure is there going to be? Also, when the sign says "Last Gas for 400 kilometers", believe it. In that 400 kilometers you will see nothing but "rocks, lakes, and bloody Christmas trees" as Northern Ontario was described by an English war bride. Where my brother lives there are two chargers in town and two in the next town on the way to Whitehorse. Trouble is there is no EV that can make it from Faro to Carcross without a stop. Oops. Plus electricity is expensive up there. $0.42 per kilowatt hour gets expensive in a hurry. Plus, as a bonus, when the electric grid suffers a break the town resorts to a massive diesel generator of limited capacity for a town of 250 households. Charging an EV would cause the whole backup system to fail.
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b I'd be one of those with a low daily average. I garage my car for about 6 months per year and go sailing.
But when I'm back, I frequently do trips of about 800 to 1300 km to visit family. These trips are usually done either non stop or with just one fuel/lunch stop in my diesel car.
For me, there's still no EV that would suit.
Paul, I just used ABRP for the old shits and giggles - here's a plan I did using the AWD version of the Kia EV6 Long Range . Trip starting in Dubbo, NSW and ending in Brisbane. QLD. Route is Dubbo to Brisbane - a distance of 885km. With a starting SoC of 100%, this trip would require 2 charging stops, both of which are at NRMA chargers.
Charging stop 1 is in Tamworth - arrival SoC is 25%. Time to charge from 25% to 90% is one hour. Charge rate 47.3kWh . Charging stop 2 is at Tenterfield - arrival SoC is 10%. Time to charge from 10% to 70% is 56 minutes. Charge rate 44.1kWh. Arrival at Brisbane with 10% charge left..... in all fairness, no real range anxiety on this trip!
Unless you wish to explore off the route on your way and leaving 25% and 10% at each charger isn’t enough. EVs don’t allow anything but a fairly direct route. As soon as you want to go off the route on the way and explore - you’ll run out of battery. And we always explore on trips.
Great video and very surprising result. It was a great way to show the price difference if you both take about the same amount of time.
Love the video, the banter, the format, more of these please :) And shocked at the recharge prices of EV's. Perhaps an every day, one month around the home and the city comparison costs video. EV vs Petrol vs Deisel. Let's find the true cost of EV.
Far cheaper running an EV in the city (given regen). I also believe statistically a good percentage are home solar charged. Supercharger costs are also more expensive than council or Chargefox supplied chargers
I loved the two of you working together. Would love to see more videos like this. I think you really could have made it with more details as you went. The time cost etc. Thanks
I enjoyed this video. I was surprised to see the cost of the EV was almost the same as the diesel, even with the diesel at the high price its at.
I would've assumed it would have been cheaper.
@@jonathanparle8429 a lot of us already have solar at home, and battery prices are going down, not up. I don’t think it’s that far of a stretch for most suburban families to have 1 EV as their smaller secondary car for the daily commute and a bigger PHEV SUV to cart the kids around or go for long weekend trips while the EV charges on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Far cheaper in the long run than $2/litre with two standard petrol cars.
@@User-cb4jm some of us don't give a (beep) about battery prices as I'd rather my noisy smelling manual gearbox than a boring no noise ugly powerpoint
@@jonathanparle8429 maybe worth it for better air quality in cities, no engine vibration/noise, less points of mechanical failure, semi-self driving cars
Diesel high price? It’s been over $2.38/ℓ here not long ago and is still around $2.33/ℓ. What they paid was cheap.
I have solar and a Tesla Powerwall at home. Need the Powerwall to run the house overnight (and during an outage) and 13.5kWh won’t put Jack all into an EV. You’d need a massive solar array and 100kWh battery at home to fully support your house and 1 EV off grid.
@@jerrymyahzcat I'm not off grid, but have a 10kW solar system that is easily able to keep my car charged from excess solar. Worst case is that it costs me 8 cents per kWh for lost feed-in tariff (about $6 for a full charge). Even if I could only charge from the grid, it would cost me less than $20 for a full charge (500+ kms range).
Great comparison… would be great to see a Sydney to Brisbane one with both cars filling up/charging whenever they need to.
Next - what would it be like stopping at charging points during peak holiday seasons? I wonder how long the overall travel time will be if there are many people in the qeue for a charge up?
Honestly for people that do long interstate trips, I think a PHEV or even a standard hybrid would be a much better bet as the main family car. Then an EV as the second smaller commuter car. It doesn’t really need to be all or nothing IMO.
@@User-cb4jm Funny you say that, cause whilst you are correct like Toyotas Hybrid philosophy… the EV crap being forced down many peoples gullets is far from real life!!
How many punch-ups? 🤣
And how long are the queues during fossil fuel crises? When there isn’t any fuel available and people block roads for hours? That would be a fair comparison using your example.
I've done several trips in an EV from the Sunshine Coast to Melbourne during xmas holiday season and long weekends. This is in a Tesla, but the Tesla charger network will be opened up to all EVs before too long (it's already started in Europe and announced for USA). Charger locations were sometimes more that 50% occupied but never 100%, so no queueing. As in an ICE car, it's normal to stop regularly for a toilet and snack break in addition to topping up charge or fuel. A 20 minute charging break should add around 200km of range (and you don't have to hold the hose while you're charging 🙂). No need to charge to 100% - just enough to get to your next toilet-and-snack stop with a bit to spare. I should add that even at around 70 cents per kWh at Tesla chargers, Noosa to Melbourne only set us back around $80 for charging. And don't forget there are many motels with EV chargers you can stay at with complimentary charging. My daughter and I stayed in a cabin in a caravan park in Geelong. Each cabin had a van/trailer parking space with a 16 amp socket that could add 50% charge to your EV overnight at no cost. That's 250km range - not an insignificant fuel cost in an ICE car (even if you're hypermiling in a small diesel car like the Audi 🙂).
That's for a road trip. If you have a parking space with a power point where you live, and pay 25c per kWh for energy, $20 will get you 300-500 kms driving range (or much more if you have solar panels and can charge at home during the day).
Fast chargers are expensive, but useful for the occasional long trip, for the vast majority of people for the vast majority of journeys you will charge your car at home whilst you’re asleep for a fraction of the price.
Great video clearly demonstrates in simple stats that ice and ev vehicles excel in different ways it's hard to beat an ice on the hwy, but ev will dominate in stop start city commutes. So buy in line with what U do most often and I'll be happy! This video shows the penalty for an ev in hwy use, which is still not quite ideal yet.
Also, I imagine it would be a lot cheaper if you have somewhere to charge overnight at home such as a garage, to charge in off peak electricity if you mostly stay local and only do local trips.
This test was very specific and does not reflect the vast majority of driving situations
@@johncarmen9963 Then buy plug in hybrid. Best of both world.
You’re right. Which demonstrates very succinctly why a majority EV world beyond the main conurbations is a pipe dream.
This is on another level, highly entertaining. That banana headshot had me in stitches 😂
After watching your stories when you were filming this, I'm very surprised with the results. Great video, guys
Fast charging on trips is expensive (excluding free 50kw DC chargers). A Tesla M3 LR is about 10.3c a kilometer on AU highways. If you plan ahead and stay where there's destination chargers (free) you're better off.
As someone who's not commuting to work everyday, doesn't have solar panels, loves long road trips and likes to go off the beaten path, EVs don't make much sense as a daily driver. But if I had solar panels, and had to commute daily, a cheaper/smaller ev as a second car would probably be cheaper. I'm just not sure about the long term costs, and if there is an expensive battery replacement a few years down the line. Or the cheaper regular running costs will balance it out in the long run.
The main issues here are the cost (EV isn’t cheap enough yet in Australia - needs to be half the cost that it was) and due to range and charging options, you can’t take side roads or back roads and go exploring off the main roads which I always like to do. On a trip we don’t often just drive the shortest or fastest route.
Also that trip would have cost me about $230 of premium 95 petrol in my 4cyl Turbo SUV.
A detour in an EV could easily be disastrous too depending how far you have to detour and how much you charged it. Like fuel - it’s never sensible to only put in “just enough” which the EV route planners seem to offer.
You can charge a ev where there is electrical power, but a diesel would work mostly only ar gas station
@@ritarumihaela543 yes and in the outback there’s no electrical power and in the few places there is - it would take 8-24hrs to charge an EV.
@@ritarumihaela543 Where do you live? Alice Springs? There is petrol stations everywhere. Since when plug in for 4-12 hours is a good thing? Just watch bjorn video where he have to rescue alot of EV driver in highway and wait for 45 min using backup batteries or his car just to make them survived to the next charging stations. You can call road side assistance if you run out of fuel, I doubt they want to wait for 1 hour charging your empty EV. They just tow your car.
I note that the costs of charging were frequently 60c/kWh or 40c/kWh which is much more than is paid for charging at home, particularly for people charging from their own solar. So the cost of a long trip is comparable with a very fuel efficient diesel. However, diesels are acknowledged to be environmentally damaging due to their non-CO2 emissions. Driving around town which is where most driving is done by most people is much cheaper with EVs. My EV costs me about $3 per 100km compared with $14 for my 2017 Corolla when petrol is cheap up to $18 when petrol is more expensive.
They are showing road trip conditions which evs are not as good for in australia and the infrastructure of charging points, lithium mining is environmentally damaging. And the time chargeing is rubbish
Incredible efficiency from the Audi
high tire pressre and no air con
@@ScottMcDonald-ck6qn lucky cars have windows
I used to have a plugin hybrid with 50km (35-40 real) range and a 2500km trip I could do in 20-22hrs. Which is doable in one go. Over this year I've been chatting with EV users whilst travelling because I wanted to replace it with an EV. Given current infrastructure, using something like the EV6 I would have to add anything between 3hrs (if only fast charging) to 7hrs (more realistic as the routes don't always have fast charging). This would turn a trip into almost 30hrs and a not very feasible endeavour to do in one go.
In the end I went for another plugin hybrid with 100km of range, which so far looks like the best of both worlds for my use case.
Great comparison guys. What were the stats on the hybrid?
Just pinned a comment with the details.
Impressive video, thank you so much for the production.
1. EVs can perform long distance driving.
2. EVs aren't necessarily cheaper to run, assuming charging isn't free. If you think it's better for the environment, please take how the electricity is produced in the country into consideration as well.
3. EVs can actually be charged anywhere even from a wall plug! If EVs really run out of juice, knock on a household and hope for the best.
And the mining that goes into producing electric cars compared to "normal" cars lol
How much time was spent charging the EV6?
The original primary rationale for EVs was the lower emissions (daily use) impact to the environment. This test demonstrates the importance of unbiased and fact-based cradle to grave information to assess the true value of transitioning to EV vehicles. I am a strong proponent of no banning of petrol vehicles but allowing both to exist as options. Over time cost savings and other factors will determine the best option. Great review.
@Chris I totally agree. there is so much BS without real world data on how much it costs to produce these batteries, how are thet being mined? where are they being mined? what is the environmental cost to produce? what is the cost when the batteries reach end of life? How is the governent going to make up the shortfall in revenues from fuel duties and tax? I really think we need to take a step back and look ay a proper mixed strategy rather than running headlong into EV's. By mixed I mean, Petrol, Hybrid, EV's, Hydrogen and even the new synthetic fuels being developed.
Diesel is not dying!
Good report CarExpert, Alborz is a natural and Paul is a gifted presenter.
It's more costly to charge an EV off EVIE, Chargefox, Tesla than it is from home. Much more (around 4 x times more) so if you're not doing long road trips EVs are vastly cheaper to run.
No mention of emissions as a metric of performance.
As the planet warms up due to greenhouse gasses this needs be part of the narrative IMHO.
EVs are good for slow driving. City and dense area driving. While diesel is good for long journey. That's why EVs are very popular in crowded country like China
That because governments mandate it. Plug in hybrid is the answer for city dwellers. Expecially if they live in apartments.
Lets be honest, that distance is a one stop for most current cars. Plus 2 1/2hrs quicker. But if you're on holidays, then not a biggie. Says a lot that current EV networks still need investment. Nice work guys.
Yay! Greyhound! ❤ Oh, yeah, great video too guys, very helpful. While ICEs are on their way out, it seems diesel still remains viable option for longer runs, for now at least! I guess around home the EV would be better cost wise.
The best of ICE diesel on highway vs the worst of EV's ev on highway. If road trips are a common thing. Ice is still the way.
Great video. Would like to see a video between Kia and model 3 or y with supercharger network comparison. Did the Kia kw/100 improve?
This was an interesting one guys, but highlights differences between countries. The Audi Q5 achieved 60.5mpg (imperial) which is remarkable but what would the results have been with a more economic vehicle?
For comparison, here in the UK I have achieved a best figure of 83.3mpg in my Octavia 2.0TDI at 110kph which equates to 3.39lt/100km so your journey would have taken 48.13lt at a cost of A$101.02.
There are only 14 350kw charging stations in the UK at present, the rest are mainly 50kw so you can see that charging is a much slower process for now, your 70kw charge at 350 in theory takes 12 minutes, but on a 50kw charge would take 85 minutes.
In regards to time spent charging, on this trip can you list out the charge locations, time spent charging and $ spent at each stop? Maybe even with your charge % from start and end of each charge.
Also, the problem with charging is having to fuck around with apps and activating sessions, provided they work ok ( Except Tesla). Then, worrying is those chargers work properly or at all. By the time you fuck around activating a charger, I already pumped gas and I'm gone.
well at home you might pay 22cents /KWH but when you are on the road at these chargers i believe they cost 60cents /KWH so yeah more expensive
this is the best real world drive comparison. Absolutely loved it
Not at all. Majority of ppl don't do 800m road trips regularly
That was an interesting challenge, however, if we are just talking about cost then drive a common car at normal speeds and see what the cost is. On another note, the internal combustion engine has had far more development over the last 100 years whereas the EV is still very new. Batteries will improve and and electric motors will become more efficient. I don't think EV's are ready for Australian conditions yet as if you were towing or had a bigger load, the range is seriously compromised. It'd be interesting to do this challenge again in 5 or 10 years time.
Amazing video again Paul! Thanks for that as always! The next one I reckon you should show us is an everyday driving in city in peak hour commuting, school drop offs & pick ups, etc. It would be a good comparison as ev seems to perform better in a heavy traffic environment.
Well said
You asked!
This was only entertainment, not really useful...
Please do a proper real-world test:
Optimal route (fastest), both cars going the speed limit/following traffic, aircon on etc. All of the things we use while actually driving, and LIKE we drive.
Then the question is: How much time is it still faster to use ICE compared to new charging options (350 kW) and then you can also add cost.
Don't need a video, just use the ABRP app as mentioned in the video, it is extremely accurate.
For instance putting my Tesla M3 LR details into the app there is 1hr and 56mins of charging time involved driving from centre of Adelaide to the centre of Sydney allowing for a 10% buffer arriving in Sydney.
How much of that 1hr 56mins you want to save driving an ICE car is up to the individual.
I enjoyed the banter more than anything, very entertaining!
When you factor in maintenance costs between the 2 along with all of the info from this test, it seems like a wash at the moment. As EV's continue to evolve I won't be surprised to see them overtake ICE. Either way, I am seriously considering an EV for my next vehicle because they will inevitably become the norm.
There is a reason trucks use diesel. It's incredibly efficient at highway speeds. Ev are the opposite. Efficient in city driving and inefficient at highway driving. It really depends how often you do long trips. I personally enjoy long trips in an ev. Charging breaks up the trip and super charging is fast. I have done a few long road trips using the tesla network and it is confidence inspiring. Unfortunately I can't say the same for the other charging networks. However, if you live in nsw you will be pleased to hear a massive investment in an open charging network.. coming soon... it's impressive.
Okay, this was the video the world was waiting for.
Even though this was made in Australia, this video is going to spark debates world over.
Great job dude.
Liked & Subscribed!
No debate needed. 95% of ev users don't do long distances. This was a false comparison
@@admol73 what comparison you want? Typical I work 10 min from my house, and free charging at home because I have solar panels plus battery type of comparison? Oh wait how about buying plug in hybrid. Or even better electric bike?
You guys should do same but with an Hybrid (ie. RAV4s) vs full Petrol vehicle, Sydney to Adelaide..
like to see how much will the cost..😊
Just my estimate based on my RAV4 I usually get around 5.5L/100km at 110kmh, that would be around 77L for 1400km trip. With cheap U91 around 60c cheaper than Diesel that would be around $112.42. Last month I did a trip Sydney -> Wagga Wagga -> Canberra -> Sydney 1,200 km and ends up with 6.09L/100km but at full load (4 adults + 1 toddler + pram + heaps of luggage, boot filled to the brim). 5.5L/100km with only me in the RAV4 is easy.
Hybrids don’t help that much on highways
@@bobateacuber7646 Hybrid is still approx 5-10% more efficient on highway compared to petrol with similar performance. The battery is there to capture wasted power from inverter to run AC for example, and Toyota Hybrid can occasionally coast on EV on highway. Not ground breaking but yes it's still more efficient.
No surprise for me. Diesel is still the cheapest, more reliable, and faster way to travel. And, I would also say, the cleanest and more environmental frendly.
Hi I'm going to be a bit of a Karen on this one. First its a great comparison if you are after one of these cars and only want to drive a 90km/h on our national highways getting up everybody's nose i.e the Audi. In real life the Audi would be doing 120 km/h and using more fuel and the overall cost would be more, also the cost of the diesel you quote at 2.03 seems very cheap to what i see in Canberra/South coast which is more like 2.34 which again would make the Audi more expensive. I don't know if i am missing the point of the comparison but if most people are going to buy a EV they are replacing a older car that they own, for the real world cheaper running costs. For me personally i have replaced my 2.0L turbo petrol engine car with a Tesla model Y. In this comparison the fuel bill for my ICE car would have been double to what you state as my ICE car gets 9l/100km and have only ever used 98 octane in it. The other item you don't mention is time, how long was the trip, how long did you stop for charging at each charge point. Again real world, the ICE car would be much quicker in time as is wouldn't have to fill up as often but would cost more in fuel whereas the EV car would take longer due to the charging spots but defiantly cheaper
Yes it a bit of a rant but I don't think this comparison is anywhere near a real world scenario
To me every time someone does a ICE car to EV car comparison they always get the most modern fuel efficient ICE car they can, where is the comparison with a Mercedes AMG, Holden Commodore, Ford Falcon and Kia EV 6 or any EV car???
Thank you! I posted a similar rant too. Lol
yep wish the guy in the audi just didnt stop unless he had to for food or to go to the toilet so we could see how many hours ahead he would be of the ev and they probably shouldnt have jacked up the pressures as much and i wish the actually did the same distance instead of the audi doing 20 more k's
Then compare your model y performance to Lexus NX 450. It can charge in you big mansion with solar panels and batteries. It can run most of you commute in batteries only, it can be fill within min in petrol stations. Similar price, and most of all Toyota /lexus quality.
1,400 km/870 miles is a single day, single fuel/rest room stop, drive in the Ram 2500 diesel (6.7L with 35 us gallon tank) that I recently sold. It's replacement, coming until later this year, has a 48 gallon diesel tank (also 6.7L diesel). Diesel is expensive for us right now at $4.50 per US gallon/3.78L.
Maybe the rivian ev truck is better
Both cars should have been made to use recommended tyre pressures, real world test should mean real world driving conditions..
Yes and driven at similar speeds, so the diesel would've cost more.
This video, brought to you by Exxon and Audi.
@@cai0 Yeah sadly not sponsored by Elon fanboy.
It's true that charging on road trips can add up, but you can charge at home for very little (essentially nothing, other than forgoing a pittance for the feed in tariff, for half the year if you have solar panels) but you can't have an oil rig and refinery at home. I have clocked up 42,201 km in my Model 3 Performance, including plenty of country trips (back and forth between Melbourne and Mildura multiple times, road trip in Tassie etc) but have only paid $387.38 on charging away from home. I try to pick accommodation that has a charger or at least a power plug outside so that I can fill up overnight for free.
I would like to see a hybrid VS Tesla mainly because I would like to see if having the tesla superchargers is more convenient. Love the content!
A hybrid is inefficient on highways.
They're not designed for it.
@@Robert-cu9bm Thats why i would like to see what happens?
So the Q5 managed 4.4L/100km - great result.
What was the average speed over that distance for the audi? ~80km/h?
Do you know perhaps how much would it would burn at 110km/h?
What was the consumption of the camera car for comparison?
Yes how did the hybrid do on cost very interested also paul
Range anxiety plays a massive factor on my decision to orchard an EV. For that distance you would require and additional 5-6 hrs for charging
You don't seem to understand how to operate and charge an EV. I don't even have one and I'm not that nieve
@@robertsfamily4 ignorance is bliss. Come back when you do a long trip in an ev then we ll talk.
@@Cashewnutter112 I haven't been more than three hours yet but it is such a quieter and more blissful space in an EV and it chargers 10-80% in under 20 min. Both commented on the better option to do it in given the choice was the EV. All that experience they had on a long trip and you have shown no knowledge by such exaggerated time quotes make you worthless to come back and talk with so no thanks. You can stay in the past while others around you may move forward. Good luck.
@@robertsfamily4 The problem is plug in hybrid. It's combine the past convenient and future tech.
@Anubizz slayer I partly agree and tried to order one for my tow vehicle but can't get hold of one at the moment. The main issue with them is not only do you have the best of both, you also have the worst of both, meaning heavy and still having engines and gearboxes to service. Can't wait until we have a whole country system that has transitioned, but until then, no matter what way you go, you are compromising and sacrificing something. For me, it will be a foot in both camps for a while with a diesel and a BEV.
Definitely want to see a real world comparison where there is no trying to conserve fuel or energy and then see how it works out in terms of cost and time to complete the journey. No unnecessary pity stops.
Great video guys, I think it’s worth saying that most people do a trip on this scale fairly infrequently with the bulk of ev charging normally being done in peoples homes at a much lower $ rate or even free from solar. This is where the real cost savings come versus petrol or diesel.
Evs are taxed extra in Victoria, other states may follow. based on kms travelled every year.
Solar is not free. There are no energy sources that are FREE !!
How much it cost to buy your big house plus the solar panel plus the battery?
Great video. Highlights that the result somewhat depends how you set things up at the start and that 50kW chargers just don't cut it.
Good luck doing Adelaide to Perth in an EV!
Can be done..probably only take a month. Lol
I couldn't get the numbers to add up, with charging being so expensive. Then I just realized that Australia just has insanely cheap diesel and expensive electricity. In Finland that same trip would have cost 126 euro in the diesel and 75 euros in the EV. The difference would be 75-80 in AUD. And that is with all public charging - You would save about 25 euro more if you assume that half of the charging (1/4 at beginning and end) is at home.
So in Finland that would mean that the cost of the EV is only 2/5 of the diesel. But this was specific to Australia of course... just a bit weird pricing on the diesel and electricity.
I think this is a little misleading. Certainly EV fast charging on the highways isn't cheap, but there doesn't seem to be an acknowledgement that charging at home is MUCH cheaper, which if you owned an EV is likely what you'd be doing most - not relevant specifically for the highway test, but since EVs copped a sledge at the end about being more expensive to buy and run, it might've been nice to mention the equation changes substantially when you don't need to rely on the public chargers, which for many will be most of the time.
He did say the vid was abt road trips and range anxiety, not daily commutes or errands
And petrol price anxiety!
@@jonathanparle8429 source : trust be bro.
So, how much TIME did you spend charging the EV? The ICE car spent NO time refuelling until the end, when it would take maybe 5 minutes to fill up? I drive Melbourne/Sydney/Melbourne and fuel up in Sydney and when I get back to Melbourne. No need to stop along the way so it is an 8 hour trip each way. In an EV, how long would it take, including maybe waiting to use a recharger?
Imagine turning up to a charging station and there was 10 people waiting in line 😂🤣.
Audi Q5 did 4,8l/100 km on this trip? That is actually fairly impressive, considering the size and weight of the car.
he was only averageing around 50mph and favourable warm conditions in Australia allows the diesel to show its best.
I’d hate to ever be gridlocked on a motorway in an EV.
Why? It’s not like a petrol car. It doesn’t idle. It doesn’t draw power unless ac is on. Even then probably less that 1% battery an hour to power that. Unless you’re stuck in traffic for days and days it won’t be an issue.
Maybe he meant when it's in a critically low state. I think he'd know about the low idle of EVs since he's watching videos like this
@@ednis32 same problem with petrol car being low on gas though.
Rather be in EV than a fuel car in traffic
@@The123Orion123 they do have low idle but if I’m stuck somewhere in the summer heat requiring the aircon and maybe some other conveniences, then it’s an issue for me.
True petrol or diesel engines are a problem if low on fuel but they never seem to be critically low as often as EV’s so I’m less anxious in that regard.
Interesting comparison. Thing is, my 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis withe the 351 (5.8 litre) Windsor V8 would have required one fuel stop on the way. That car could do 1,000 kilometers on a single fill. Even my 1990 Volvo 240 wagon would have needed 2 stops. I have driven that distance in a single day between breakfast and dinner. In a 79 Ford Thunderbird, and with one fuel stop to top up the 80 litre tank. The time spent recharging is nuts, as is the whole idea of only carrying enough power to get to the next charging point. What happens if the next one is broken and the nearest is another 100 km away? A realistic comparison is charging to 100% every time, because that is how a normal vehicle is refueled and adds a significant margin of safety. That is very important here in Ontario. The distances are by far too vast to be taking chances.
Interesting test. It really highlights that in Australia we should be promoting plugin hybrids to allow hassle free travels anywhere outside city's. Untill EV’s can travel at least 500 to 600km at highway speeds in all conditions, they are not really an option for travelling in Australia. Great in the city but then they should be a much smaller vehicle to save all that extra energy. We really have lost the plot on this issue.
who has lost the plot? 30% of all toyotas sold are hybrids in aus. They will get there but battery tech needs another iteration
@@bazza2540
Those who push EV’s so hard. At the moment they really only have about half the range of an ICE when travelling on the open road.
As I see it EV’s have three very big disadvantages. Firstly charging times are far to slow and there are not enough charging points outside major centers, as highlighted here. Secondly they need a tow truck when they run out of energy which can happen because of diversions caused by flood, fire or an accident, as was the case in this test. Thirdly if a high percentage of people take up EV’s, our grids are not designed to handle the extra demand thats going to be placed on them.
I think Hybrids are a great option but then the plugin hybrid offers the added advantage of operating as an EV in daily commutes.
Toyota offers the RAV4 as a plugin overseas, but because we are so stupid here, they don’t import them. There is no doubt, long term EV’s will be the go, but only when they can travel a greater distance and be charged more quickly,which I think should happen this decade.
I'm a long drive addict, rally loving this second by second, Thanks.
I had no idea charging an EV was so costly. At least it is if you want it charged at the faster rate.
Seems 60 cents per kWh is pretty normal for paid fast chargers. That Kia was using 20 kWh per 100, so $12 per 100km. The diesel was getting 4.8 litre/100km, but he was driving slower than normal. At similar speeds to the Kia he might get 6/100 @ $2.10 a litre that's $12.60 per 100km.
Throwing a banana through the window of a moving car, the funniest thing I've seen for a long time.
Again, amazing content guys!
I'd like to have seen some type of emissions savings/output totals as another type of comparison
Especially if they take into account the 1kWh of electricity a refinery consumes to produce a litre of fuel.
Real world comparison: I drove this exact same route in a Mazda CX-5 diesel (fully loaded with passengers and luggage) earlier this year, driven at the speed limit. The cost of diesel at the time was $2.10. the cost of fuel for my trip was $186.84. Paul's empty EV6 was $125.56.
Great video. I'd love to see a similar video, but measuring the cost comparison for a young family picking up kids from school, going to woolies, driving to work. Lots of short trips around the city or town. Thanks Paul & team
Will be an easy win for an EV. A diesel or petrol car won’t get anywhere near 4.5lt/100ks. While EV’s are more efficient with that sort of driving compared to long distance
Exactly what I was thinking! What you described is 95% of the driving that most people do!
Almost feels like this video was sponsored by fossil fuel companies and/or ICE car manufacturers that can't scale EV production as fast as Tesla.
@@cai0 :D yeah. I think we know the EV would win, but it would be nice to see how it performs. Could expand the series into comparing how other EVs perform against each other.
Good call. The vast majority of people make trips such as this very, very infrequently. If the channel were genuinely interested in helping people make an informed choice they would set up tests that more closely matched the driving that people actually do.
Keeping your old car is the most cost effective.
The 350kw chargers are at least $0.60 per kWh so you got stung there, you pay for the convenience of super fast charging.
More Alborz
Yea nice bloke 👌
Road trips represent about 1% of my car usage. Can you do daily city traffic next?
Love the comparison and would like to see more of them between petrol efficiency and EV's
I drive from Orange to Port Macquarie nonstop in my ancient petrol 2019 2.5ltr manual Mazda 3 Astina hatch averaging 5.8l/100k in 6hr45min and have more fun than a crappy EV
You obviously haven't driven an modern EV if you think its crappy compared to a shitty old Mazda 3.
@@timorum actually I have driven a few and not having an engine note is one 🙅🏻♂️ having to stop and plug in is bloody annoying. The costs aren’t an issue for me, maybe my stubbornness of I don’t give a 🤬 stops me from buying one. I prefer a manual and YES before you trumpet 🎺 your response with they are becoming obsolete I’m aware of that. I have no issue with the 3 the 2.5ltr propels the car along quite well and it has plenty of safety tech. Enjoy your power point and most of them aren’t wonderful to look at. In a few years when the things have a decent range and regionally we have more infrastructure I might consider one. Turning up to a charging station and you have to wait In a queue no thanks 🙅🏻♂️ I’d rather take my normal seat in business class ✈️
@@davidrome6066 And that's your choice.... for now a least. Perhaps avoid EV videos if it all upsets you.
Our 10 year old Audi Q5 (2 litre) between Sydney & Brisbane did 6.6litres/100km last week.(less than 1 tank of fuel). This included Aircon and 2 people with cruise control at the speed limit usually 110km. (Engine had been adjusted since Audi emissions scandal). You guys got 4.8litres/100km. I wonder how much we'd save if we had driven slower ?
The newer Audi Q5s are equipped with DSG and Quattro Ultra, while the old Q5 has an AT and Quattro Thorsen, and it is actually expected to see you on 6.6/100km. The old Q5 is considered to have a better and realiable transmission and AWD system and is also heavier than the new ones.
Cost saving of ev is daily driving and charging at home
Depends !
If you have a private home charger, something many won't have access to, and if you don't ever plan to take long trips.
@@AkioWasRight not many people have a 240v socket?
@@AkioWasRight Home chargers are pretty easy to install. Most people can install one unless they live in an apartment or something.
@@rdmz135 Many people live in apartments or something. What is your plan for them???
Keen to see this again, but about travel duration. If Alborz had done the speed limit and taken a direct route, would have been good to see how much time difference there would be between the ICE and the EV.
It costs more to run, it takes longer to fill and you pay more for the car? How is that the future.
We people here in a third world country are doomed.
Back to horses and bicycles I guess, not too bad now that I mentioned it. 👍👌
Look at EVs in China. Nothing you said applies there. It will be similar in 3rd world countries.
It all depends on the engine If you used like a 1.6tdi engine it would be a lot cheaper
Thanks Paul, great to see another video debunking the EV hyper status. Curious nonetheless to see the figures from the hybrid vehicle??
Just pinned a comment on the hybrid's consumption 🙂
The real benefit of EVs is home charging. Using an EV day to day for work and school runs, it should be way cheaper than an ICE vehicle
It is. Traded in our Diesel for a Leaf for around town driving. Work, dropping kids off. The savings are huge.
Majority of Ev’s are charged at home from solar. So first tank from Adelaide should have been free and the arrival at Sydney should have had you arriving at a friends for a free charge. Be interesting to see the Audi consumption at the speed limit? I drove from Broadbeach to Melbourne for just over $50 charging at the resort fully before I left and using NRMA chargers and over night stays to top up for free.. When you are not in a hurry you can find many power points. Great video.. public charger rates will come down when competition kicks in..I see many Tesla’s chasing cheaper rates than the super. Charges. More video’s like this please.
NO, the 1st charge from home is not free, even many houses have solar system but hardly any has battery system, you would be still charging your EV over night from power of the grid. You may not be paying for charging at a friend's house, but it does not mean that it is free.
It's surprising that for long trip driving, an EV costs similar to an efficient diesel car. There is still a lot to improve for EVs as well as the charging system, but now petrol/diesel cars are still the way to go.
Great video to show these facts of the real world driving.
This shows the problem with EVs here in Straya. We have less charging stations and expensive charging stations. With no rebates buying an electric car, people will not choose EVs any time soon.
Very interesting, but I won’t be going electric any time soon in regional AUS. Electric is a con in any case if you look at the true environmental impact of building an E car
How so? Look at LFP batteries. Which is what the vast majority of current EV’s use. There are no precious metals involved in their manufacture.
Nice video Paul, with very surprising results. Now will be liter harder for pro electric car. In my opinion, electric car is it a pleasure to drive: quiet, instant torque, very easy to over take , one pedal drive and very cheap to run if you charge at home, perfect for work commuter and pleasure trips. But for business trips , always I use the diesel one, is no stress about charging infrastructure. I was a diesel man and now I own one electric car together with a diesel car.
What is the average income of EV buyers compared to the rest of society? Should those be getting subsidies?
How many humans or working class people own a house with a garage?
How are they gonna charge their EVs after coming home from work?
How much more expensive to buy are EVs compared to normal cars?
What is the average price of the private vehicles purchased in your (any) country?
What effects do higher prices have on the sales of the vehicles?
What effects does cheap and convenient transport have on the working class's ability to find (well paid) jobs?
Is there any public transport going to the industrial zones placed outside of cities very early in the morning to get there before 07.00 ?
What are "subsidies" and who pays for them ?
What is an Ice age or Milankovich cycle?
Are mRNA vaccines with Lipid nanoparticles "safe" and how "effective" they are considering the numbers of australian covid fatalities compared to another countries in 2020 before any vacc. ? Do you know what means "proportionaly"?
Not a true test
Thanks for the vid guys, I think the one thing to mention which would have made the EV trip cost way cheaper. The normal EV owner such as myself would have charged to capacity at home before leaving and when arriving back. So those two costs should actually be removed from your total cost. I have never yet, gone to a supercharger to charge before leaving for a road trip. The normal procedure for me is, charge the car over night before leaving in the morning.