I talk about making good factions for RPGs, using examples from Fallout. I specifically talk about DESIGNING good factions, not WRITING them, since I am not qualified to talk about the latter.
"If I played a game that didn't have any sarcastic characters I'd be happy" This. There are a few games I've bought and wanted to play because they looked gorgeous and interesting, taking place in fantastical and interesting worlds that you'd want to explore... but then you get slapped in the face by smarmy characters brimming with sarcasm, because the writer(s) weren't confident in delivering a serious or at the very least, sincere narrative.
I hate that so much. I hate that every setting in video games nowadays are filled to the brim with sarcastic dialogue. It's one thing to parody a specific thing (even that's getting old real quick), but it's just so uncreative and bland to have the same type of character deliver some lines in that same "sarcastic" tone that the likes of MCU are known for. I don't know which came first (the horrid MCU/modern versions of Star Wars/other franchise sarcasm one-liners) or the cringey sarcastic dialogue in games, but it's got to stop!
@@desertdude540 worked pretty well in firefly a good actor can make that work too Nathan Fillion would transition really well the character of Malcolm Reynolds would seem like he's trying to mess around to avoid his own problems Chris Evans on the other hand captain America quipping is a little forced from him
@@anton6686 to be fair the characters themselves arent too sarcastic from what I recall except the doctor and the priest kinda even Phineas doesn't take it too over the top imo
Tim is here talking about making video games but all of his tips on design have leveled-up my game as a D&D dungeon master. The exact same principles apply.
incorrect, he talks about making rpgs and his experience with that, so the fact that u can extrapolate that to DnD the grand daddy of rpgs is not odd. However its a good tip for new DM, always watch a pro at world building, u can learn tons
The brotherhood of steel was also interesting to me in that sometimes it's actions as a conclave seemed like a collective PTSD response, how a large group of people with ptsd would behave to ensure their safety, and since fallouts take place after nuclear events, it makes sense to behave that way.
So they were always reactionary to a degree. Couple of generations down the line, they are full blown homophobes, to try to discourage same sex couples. Contrast that with the east coast chapters, who actually recruit locals when needed, don't really have that same issue.
I couldn't agree more about the sarcastic character trope. It worked for Handsome Jack in Borderlands 2, but the majority of the time, I find that games are funnier when absurd beliefs/situations are played straight. The "next of kin" policy in the Outer Worlds, the guy who thinks he's a ghoul in New Vegas, Measure Head from Disco Elysium, that kind of thing.
I don't know if I'd count Measure Head as being absurd, necessarily. There were LARGE numbers of actual people who believed in exactly the same things he did, Disco Elysium just changed who had those beliefs. Hell, there's real world people with his beliefs today. That's kind of the point of Disco Elysium.
@@matthewgagnon9426 i mean his beliefs are absurd tho, it isn't grounded in reality at all. But the same is true of countless real world beliefs, just because a belief exists doesn't mean it's not absurd. And there's a fundamental absurdity to bigotry, fascism and authoritarianism. These kinds of worldviews fundamentally do not engage with fact, only the emotions of those who hold them.
There is only one use of sarcasm in media that I've seen lately that I actually enjoyed. In Spider-Man: No Way Home, they really played up the sarcastic MCU writing, and centered it around Aunt May. The characters from the other universes seemed impervious to it, like shoving a big mirror in the MCU's face and saying, "You see how dumb this sounds?" When Aunt May died, it was as if the immaturity of the MCU and Tom Holland's Spider-Man died with her. Things finally became serious and meaningful.
Probably my least favourite trend in recent years is making all of the factions seem bad to make picking one to side with difficult. Rather than making all the factions compelling with different perspectives
I liked the factions in Gothic/Gothic II a lot. Each of them has people who think they are doing the right thing, others who just want some profit, or security, or who were just swept into them because their house happened to be in the region they established themselves in. Some are assholes exploiting the lower ranks, some are helpful, some might cooperate with other factions if they deem them a good person, and others will just kick your shit in. Opportunists, procrastinators, or maybe people who just joined because a faction had the best weed. But all of them had a few who I really liked, who made sense, and whose motivations I understood and wanted to support. The type that makes you feel bad not to help them out, and makes picking one faction really hard. I love that moment in games.
I agree with making memorable characters with different personalities within the faction. This is actually what can save an average story, because players might not remember a game for it's story but they always remember memorable characters.
No the GM controls non-playable characters. However, I still don't necessarily agree with Kotor610 because one can never consistently determine the reactions of player characters.@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799
Maybe a little off-topic but game called Stalker is good example of how fractions need to be made. You not choose which one is less bad/shit, but one that you like more. Sadly not every game understands that.
Checked the comments first so see if anyone had mentioned Stalker, so thank you! The situation in that universe is so terrible that there's not really a good solution, so it makes sense that there's all sorts of competing ideas around what should be done with the zone. And any given faction isn't a monolithic entity, but have sub-factions within them as well, that all have their nuanced ideas.
For example: >Duty: Wants to destroy the Zone >Freedom: Wants to make peace with the Zone >Army: Wants to keep people out and monsters in >Scientists: Want to study the Zone And so on
I finally started playing fallout 1, the first two games were on sale and I figured it’s about time I play them. I thought they would be hard to get into but they honestly hold up surprisingly well, the AP system reminds me of newer games such as divinity. I’m currently on a personal quest to shoot every major villain in the groin… idk if I can shoot the master in the groin but I’ll cross that bridge when I get there. Anyways this game is a blast and it’s inspired me to homebrew a fallout tabletop RPG. So these videos are really helpful right now, thanks Tim!
Thank you for the great advice. I would ve very interested in your thoughts on how to build relationships between factions (and characters), mostly from the setting and mechanics perspective. Thanks again. Have a great day!
Great points! also I don't know if this is intentional but the original factions also support the general themes of fallout. Most have some kind of fascination with the future or the past
I found them a bit too static, next improvement over them would be if they actually did more of cross factions interactions that were player influenced. Like in a 4x game where each faction has set tolerance towards other factions beliefs.
@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799 pretty great for 18 months in dev with a foreign engine following a game with terribly shallow writing/"factions" and essentially 0 real reputation mechanics.
@@brennanmcdonnell9343 I'm not knocking down fallout nv factions, it's more about the general state of affairs in games with factions. Yeah if there is some cross faction interaction it's more or less hard coded based on the will of the "god". Some systemic diplomacy would be nice, that's all.
@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799I like the dynamics of factions in Warband (and to a lesser extent, Bannerlord), although arguably 90% of it happens in my head and not the actual game. I still think it's great design to use the player's mind if you can pull that off (like Dwarf fortress does).
The best DnD game I ever DMd was a Christmas one shot where the players show up at a town just before its Christmas holiday and discover the town has Robot Santa from Futurama. I did very little specific plot or dialog planning. I created a few factions, and locations, and within each faction I came up with some different motivations and conflicts. When the players talked to an NPC I just picked a faction and some goals, and that made it super easy to improvise the NPC on the spot and give the players a lot of room to take the plot in different directions. It worked fantastically.
The point about humans with less radiation exposure making better mutants (which I didn’t know before, very interesting) makes me wonder what would happen if the mutants were to try dipping a ghoul (feral or non-feral, either/or). Would they just die? Has something like this been mentioned before, in the lore or otherwise? Harold is the closest case that comes to my mind, but if I’m not mistaken, his ghoulish symptoms came about after/as a result of FEV exposure
I appreciate this, i wonder about your thoughts about factions that have conflicting goals. an example would be world of warcrafts alliance and horde factions how they have goals and homes for the different races of peoples, i would like to hear your thoughts about factions that directly oppose each other. in order to promote pvp type play.
Hi Tim, The title of the video made me think this was about "good" factions rather than good factions. But it did make me ponder, what makes a compelling evil choice from your perspective. Edit: and how do you design compelling evil choices. all too often evil feels like a 2nd lesser considered line in games which lessens the game rather than improves it, or its feels half finished.
Hey Tim!! I am a huge fan of yours and the world you and your team created for Fallout. I'm currently working on a book and a music collective based on your story and would love to chat to get your blessing!!
Well I learned "raison d'etre" & know what that means now lol. Great video, building factions is always the most enjoyable part of worldbuilding for myself personally. I could talk about the factions in FNV especially for hours
Thanks for the content Tim! My students and myself find your videos an endless source of knowledge! Here's a question: Do you have any advice for when individuals in a team are too passionate and end up running laps around the rest of the members? Taking on tasks outside of their role and (maybe) worst of all - expects the other members to keep up with their (unhealthy) workload? I've seen it happen on multiple occasions that some individuals gradually starts assuming roles and tasks far beyond what is asked of them. And while they might think themselves as heroes - they foster resentment towards themselves for robbing other members of their tasks.
Does a student on the team assume the producer role? If so, have that person hand out tasks. If the passionate student finishes early, they can either work on tasks that were assigned to students who are taking longer than expected OR work on lower priority tasks that would make the game higher quality.
"they foster resentment towards themselves for robbing other members of their tasks" Are you sure you're not the catalyst for that resentment? If you didn't point it out as an issue would they really resent themselves? Usually people go above and beyond because they are motivated, don't demotivate your exceptionally motivated people. Also maybe the extra fast people should group up and work on a more substantial project in that same timeframe, each learn at their own pace and if they do project at home, they must be so much further than their peers, just based on their effort. Taking tasks outside their role also sounds like a good strategy to learn, so I really don't see where the issue even begins. If you're exceptional students aren't arrogant and they are good teachers/presenters, you could try giving them teachers role on subjects that they truly excel at, I wouldn't force it on them.
@@CainOnGames Thank you for the answer. Unfortunately, the Teams in question, our students, are without Producers. But not necessarily so. Let me offer some context; During 4 separate occasions throughout their education - we run Game Projects. The projects have all of our educations collaborate as we form large teams of students. Team sizes range from 10-16 participants, and are comprised of a healthy mix of: Game Design, Game Programmer, Game Artist, QA, UX, Animation & VFX students. Each team comes to the understanding on how they wish to structure their hierarchy - with some guidance of course. They write up team contracts, which serves to guide both the team and individuals on their respective field of responsibility. At the moment, the roles we require to be filled out in the contract is PO and Scrum Master, the rest is up to the team to decide. They then set out to create a vertical slice based on a theme, much like an extended Game Jam over the span of 4-7 weeks. The intent with our Game Projects is to offer our students a better insight into semi-structured game development and the importance of communication, teamwork, cohesive and unified visions. This being said, there's the possibility of students internally deciding on a producer in their Team contracts, which sort of leads me to a different question entirely. What is the size threshold when a team should start seeing managerial roles such as Directors, Producers, Leads et cetera?
@@henriklindfors931it’s curious that you have the students assume every role except producer. They’re an important part of game development, and I’ve think they should be represented, especially on teams the size of yours,10-16. In fact once you have more than 5 or 6 people, you need some coordination
@@CainOnGames Thanks for the input! I suppose its due to the fact that we do not offer any courses or lectures on the topic of Producers. (what they are, what they do, and how to be an effective one.) We will definitely look into finding some lecturers on the topic in time for our next game project! Thanks again!
I'm always baffled by how much interesting thoughts you can fit in so little time. Would you please explain a bit your trains of thought which help you while actually starting to design the setting itself? Not necessarily in the lens of game design, but in general. You know, how to merge a lot of separate ideas into some clear picture. Do I start with the world or the setting? Are factions more important than plot lines? Do you have or know about a practise to order the chaos in one's head? I'm probably phrasing that very poorly, but I'm very interested in how you actually start to begin or begin to start.
What factions did Arcanum have? All I can remember were the Hand (who *were* a pretty unified monolithic entity), and the Unified Kingdom-Caladon-Cumbria triad (and Cumbria is the only one where I can really think of that had characters who were concretely linked to the faction as a faction, instead of merely in a place, and had their own voice distinct from the others).
Hi Tim, what are some good ways in your opinion to make choices feel like they matter to the player, and is there any tricks to structure a story in the way that make this into an easier job?
@@CainOnGames thanks! I think I missed this one, but along side it do you have any other tips for some good ways (and easy to implement) to show the player their actions had some consequences? Whenever I think about this I remember Tyranny and how the dialogue of that game always keeps bring some choice or action you've made
Hey Tim! What do you think as both a leader and an employee about letting your superiors know your ambitions and career choices that you know they might disagree with? Even though I am pretty high up, I see that my bosses are charting a path for me that I am not excited about, but am 'afraid' of letting them know about that because I may not align with their business needs.
Hi Tim! With all the rumors circulating about the potential Arcanum reboot, if there's any truth to them, I'm keen to throw my hat in the ring. With 10 years of experience, including recent work on Baldur's Gate 3, I'm excited about the possibility of contributing as a lead producer.If you're interested in exploring this further, I'd be happy to discuss it with you. Looking forward to potentially connecting!
I have been wondering if there are even more basic principles of factions, even to the degree that we could consider procedural factions.. or just design principles that establish that our set of factions with often linear content interrelate to be more than just linear content in random orders.. and what sort of diagrams we would use if any.
I have few pet peeves with games but one of them is when I have to join a facion to get through the game, I don't like idiological groups and don't want to join a mob, even not in a game. So there can be factions to trade or do missions for but if I have to join at some point and can't just be a neutral freelancer that does jobs for everyone I won't be able to play through the game.
Mr. Cain, I have a question. If you'll given the opportunity to make a new fallout game with full creative control, what it will be about? what storyline or factions you'll focus on?
@@Kirill-ig6nr Oh sweet! Okay, looking up the video. Also, Fallout Bibles? I'll have to look that up too. And it's talked about in the original games? Huh. I've seen a lot of people act like it was never talked about. Whelp, gotta play the originals now too. Kirill, thank you so much!
@dontcallmesurly6118 Most people haven't played the originals because they're really old. The United States invaded mainland China and was winning heavily, and in desperation, China fired the first nukes. New Vegas has multiple references to the invasion with Old World Blues and the Gobi Campaign Rifle. The Enclave President in Fallout 2 just directly states, "We were winning, too. And then those damn Reds launched everything they had. We barely got our birds up". The Fallout Bibles are a collection of lore and development notes compiled from the original games and Fallout New Vegas.
Another idea is if you think a faction is too monolith is to break it up into sub factions. In New Vegas, House wanted a free Vegas but the strip was more of a federation of tribes he civilized, who each had their own uniqueness to them.
Kinda shocked you didn't mention TOEE. You have the broad Homlett v. Temple conflict, but within those two broad factions, you have subfactions working against one another. So there is the conflict between the Church of St. Cuthbert and Jaroo's nature-based faith. And there at least 5 factions within the temple proper--some cooperate under a misunderstanding of the main faction's real goals.
Factions are so interesting I love the NCR cuz I grew up in Cali I like to take the diplomatic side of things so I went with them u see a lot of parallels to real plights n strengths the state has from the governments insane taxes, they r envoirmentalist providing clean water and power from the hilos station like we invest in solar power, even soldiers like some of my friends who go in but they sign up for the benefits not the action n want desk jobs or bureaucrat positions which doesn’t work very well in the waste, it’s very conflicting which side to choose from but having factions who align with your ideologies and give you fun quests n unique armors/weapons even endings is really what gives the game so much weight having the factions have important deep rooted conflict in everything with the ending slides is super good at making everything you do feel like it has weight. Without the system as you say just mindless killing is senseless I want a game so complex if I go up to any ole NPC n take em out even aggrod ones out the gate 9/10 they’ll be a part of a faction where u do have to pick sides unless like you said u are a master of disguise and very good at sneak & planning your play style that makes a games choices even more compelling and rich & adds this nice level of realism with the weight to your morality it isn’t just for character writing so much as it is for world building truly
Hi, Tim! I wonder if you've seen hbomberguy's videos about Fallout 3 and NV - you and him highlight very similar points, though he speaks from a consumer viewpoint.
Hi, I have questions, and they're all about the same thing. When it comes to fast travel in games, where do you draw the line between 'dumbed down', and tedious? So for instance, in The Outer Worlds, you can fast travel to any discovered area on the local map. But if you want to go to another planet, you need to go back to the ship, and use the star map in the cockpit. So my question is, what difference would it have made, if you just allowed the player to open, and use the star map from anywhere outside the ship? Is there any gameplay-related reason for gating interplanetary travel to the ship, or is it just for added realism? I hope my phrasing was clear enough, and thank you :)
Yeah, starfield did the same thing, and because there were like 3 loading screens in between each planet, you really feel the cost(+ cinematics). I wasn't as annoyed in outer worlds, or kotor, you usually stick to the planet once you arrive, and don't have to zig zag around the universe as much.
I feel like this video boils down to "Populate each faction with varying, interesting characters" but personally I'd be more interested in the macro-level reasons for designing those factions. Why do the mutants, BoS, Children, necro ghouls, etcetera exist? Or maybe, in what order were those factions conceived? And if one was added in relation or response to another, why?
My second biggest gripe(first is organization, their menus are a mess) with modern Bethesda games is their lack of writers. Having their level designers do it has led to similar characters, similar quests, and subpar story telling.
There's something to say about identifying to players what the factions are. These guys are whatever and then the other guys in the other town are the other whatever. And it's displayed so perfectly in the UI, raise points here and there to gain faction points. I think it's so silly to do this. Make it more ambiguous, nuanced. Factions are more fun when there are no points and raising levels, it's very dialogue and interaction based and not every npc should be samey.
The china nuked first thing is not a spoiler its more that its the one thing many people argue about since bethesda never really touched the topic with a clear answer and many people havent played the old ones. And with you saying that its like divine intervention making clear that was the original intention , even tho bethesda might (have) changed it.
So speaking of factions, what about reputation mechanics? I kinda get the feeling that the less monolithic a faction is the more nuanced and complicated any kind of reputation system would be.
Hey Tim, really glad I found your channel (maybe I need to thank Asmongold for that), I love Fallout and it's so interesting to hear these behind the scenes of Fallout & general games development stories. Do you think it would be a good idea for Xbox to form a dedicated Fallout team so we players don't have to wait 10 years between games? Definitely don't want to dilute the franchise, but if we could get something every 2-5 years would be nice I think
BTW, I've put some thoughts into the "inherently evil fantasy race" issues, that could get rid of the stupid trope whilst still keeping some of the sauce. If we treat it as the bad memories of the time said race had an empire, so like the tales of Caligula in the Roman empire, or how Germany was viewed up to and into the 2000s. Atrocities were very real, and the taint sticks, but the people today are not guilty by their own actions, only through association/inheritance. Like modern Drow live their lives scattered and maybe in small enclaves, just living their lives raising their kids, but they still have the stigma, and you can probably find small fragments who still aspire to that old image, maybe even leaning into the evil tropes, because it's a part of the image they know, or because they can use it as an excuse to be their worst. Would love to hear your thoughts
As a mature, sophisticated 30 year old with a full understanding of complex and nuanced morality and a passionate interest the hypothetical ethics and politics that would emerge in a post nuclear wasteland... I support the Brotherhood Of Steel, because Power Armor is awesome 😅
For spoilers I give it a time limit for the first year spoiler free then anytime after that it will diminish after 3 years I will spoil everything cuz it's on you to play that game not on me if you don't make it a priority it's not a priority to me to keep it a secret
I always say sarcasm is a witless way to try and be funny. It takes no real cleverness or sharpness. That's why teenagers do it. "Are you being sarcastic, Dude??" "I don't even know anymore."
@@CainOnGamesso aliens have nothing to do with the great war? then what exactly are they looking for on earth? or bethesda really have no idea what they are doing 😂?
I don't really like it when games have that menu with reputation bars tied to rewards for each faction and eventually you're forced to side with a faction vs another. I would keep the factions for world building or antagonists, but get rid of these systems.
If you cant give good writing advice, do you know anyone who can? Anyone can think of a faction but that doesnt mean they're talented, like you pointed out.
As an artist, I find that design comes so naturally to me, but I can't write for shit either. One of the easiest things I tend to think about in the design of a faction is something unifying like a color that visually ties them all together. I start really basic, and then develop from there.
@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799 so when I am using a drawing approach, I'll start conceptualizing with a color pallet I am using. You can use this and bring in some forms of heraldry, what do colors and symbols mean? Start drawing inspiration from cultures around the world, and using unifying pieces. In Fallout, an example of this would be the Legion, and how they all have similar armor, in the same color. The NCR can be identified by their weaponry, their uniforms, and most identifiably, The NCR Ranger outfit. Costumes and colors inspire. Heavy use of red can indicate an inclination to violence, or how purples can be used to instill a sense of wealth.
@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799 think of the contrast of those bright blue vault suits, in a world that is devoid of life and safe drinking water. It creates visual interest, and is a unique form of storytelling within the world that adds layers of depth and identity. You can use something like the color blue and tie it back to the decision to be seeking a water chip.
@@ArtworkByBoneless That draw inspiration.. and using unifying pieces, that sounds very esoteric, it's not exactly an explanation you'd give to a 5 year old. But yeah, you pick a color, you have some associations with that color, and then you find some concrete examples for the inspiration, after that you adapt them into your setting. So for example, i think of "green" then I think "death" then the necrons come to mind, and if I had to adapt necrons to fallout new vegas, I'd probably go with ghouls that have weaponized their glowing brethren as elite soldiers, armored them up, and go around extorting the more civilized people for supplies and power. It doesn't really go into much of depth of what motivates them, but I suppose a half rotten person might have some hatred towards the not so disfigured brethren. Also since ghouls live a very long life, they could in theory be more advanced that regular people, and possible in search for a way to restore their bodies to a more pristine state. But they also start to seem a bit like supermutants. but yeah, I guess I understand your method a bit better once that I've used it. Color still seems like a weird starting point when you want to write, but as long as it works.
I feel basic storytelling is your baseline. Translation to compelling gameplay, not my wheelhouse. But I can guess. Conflict is the spice of any tale. Factions should serve a varying flavor of playthrough. Ethics, morality, bonus whatever, i don't know. But Fallout Uno had a building wtf comprehension of factions. And character/story direction and development. You can get water merchants to buck your... f'ed up water chip. Downside: Other factions are now aware of Vault 13. Faction awareness, great. Impact and exchange, known or wh... I didn't know that was a thing... better. For gameplay. My opinion. Sure. Why not.
Sidenote: Even my first playthroughs of Fallout proper, back before I was ... what's called a "Dotcommer", I avoided that water merchant option, latently getting it'd leave a snail trail to my home.
This is one problem I had with D:OS2; there just weren't any good factions I could support. It was a slew of evil choices and only at most one way to be kinda good, but only if you genocide half the NPCs in each map. The game is way overrated.
The bandit leader in Arcanum that uses words wrong made me laugh sooo much way back in the day. Just thought he was so smart but he's mispronounce big words OFTEN.
Too many sarcastic characters? I honestly couldn’t give you a character who’s whole thing is being sarcastic off the top of my head, maybe it’s because of the type of games I play. Can someone name a couple of characters or games for me? Just out of curiosity. ( I do like the mean-fun characters though, Cavalero from warframe immediately comes to mind when you mention those types. I love it when he says “hell yeah! You’re my favourite little meat grinder!”, he’s a mean guy, but boy is he fun)
i know Morte from Planescape and Zyzyx from Sacrifice, they're voiced by the same guy too! oh and the narrator from Dungeon Keeper that give mission briefings. Another one: HK-47 from KOTOR.
I agree with what you said about sarcastic characters Tim. It's incredibly tiresome when characters are cocky or sarcastic because it's such an over-used trope. And that's not an attractive trait in my opinion, unless they also make the character complex and likeable; don't have a character whose personality is "they're sarcastic", but do if they are that way because they perhaps are insecure or hiding behind a mask.
So aliens have nothing to do with the great war? then what exactly are they looking for on earth? or bethesda really have no idea what they are doing 😂?
"If I played a game that didn't have any sarcastic characters I'd be happy"
This. There are a few games I've bought and wanted to play because they looked gorgeous and interesting, taking place in fantastical and interesting worlds that you'd want to explore... but then you get slapped in the face by smarmy characters brimming with sarcasm, because the writer(s) weren't confident in delivering a serious or at the very least, sincere narrative.
I hate that so much. I hate that every setting in video games nowadays are filled to the brim with sarcastic dialogue. It's one thing to parody a specific thing (even that's getting old real quick), but it's just so uncreative and bland to have the same type of character deliver some lines in that same "sarcastic" tone that the likes of MCU are known for. I don't know which came first (the horrid MCU/modern versions of Star Wars/other franchise sarcasm one-liners) or the cringey sarcastic dialogue in games, but it's got to stop!
Joss Whedon must pay for his crimes against humanity.
@@desertdude540 worked pretty well in firefly a good actor can make that work too Nathan Fillion would transition really well the character of Malcolm Reynolds would seem like he's trying to mess around to avoid his own problems Chris Evans on the other hand captain America quipping is a little forced from him
Really? And he directed the outer worlds?
@@anton6686 to be fair the characters themselves arent too sarcastic from what I recall except the doctor and the priest kinda even Phineas doesn't take it too over the top imo
Tim is here talking about making video games but all of his tips on design have leveled-up my game as a D&D dungeon master. The exact same principles apply.
incorrect, he talks about making rpgs and his experience with that, so the fact that u can extrapolate that to DnD the grand daddy of rpgs is not odd. However its a good tip for new DM, always watch a pro at world building, u can learn tons
Same here as a Cyberpunk GM
that's why I watch his stuff too haha
@@bernardopostogna9921 isnt making rpgs the same as making videogames if the rpgs he is making are videogames
@@bernardopostogna9921 "Incorrect"
Hi Tim! It's me, everyone.
Hey LS, it’s everyone
The brotherhood of steel was also interesting to me in that sometimes it's actions as a conclave seemed like a collective PTSD response, how a large group of people with ptsd would behave to ensure their safety, and since fallouts take place after nuclear events, it makes sense to behave that way.
Considering what the reason Maxson created the Brotherhood as a response too. This honestly isn't too far off in my opinion.
So they were always reactionary to a degree. Couple of generations down the line, they are full blown homophobes, to try to discourage same sex couples. Contrast that with the east coast chapters, who actually recruit locals when needed, don't really have that same issue.
I couldn't agree more about the sarcastic character trope. It worked for Handsome Jack in Borderlands 2, but the majority of the time, I find that games are funnier when absurd beliefs/situations are played straight. The "next of kin" policy in the Outer Worlds, the guy who thinks he's a ghoul in New Vegas, Measure Head from Disco Elysium, that kind of thing.
I don't know if I'd count Measure Head as being absurd, necessarily. There were LARGE numbers of actual people who believed in exactly the same things he did, Disco Elysium just changed who had those beliefs. Hell, there's real world people with his beliefs today. That's kind of the point of Disco Elysium.
@@matthewgagnon9426 i mean his beliefs are absurd tho, it isn't grounded in reality at all. But the same is true of countless real world beliefs, just because a belief exists doesn't mean it's not absurd. And there's a fundamental absurdity to bigotry, fascism and authoritarianism. These kinds of worldviews fundamentally do not engage with fact, only the emotions of those who hold them.
There is only one use of sarcasm in media that I've seen lately that I actually enjoyed. In Spider-Man: No Way Home, they really played up the sarcastic MCU writing, and centered it around Aunt May. The characters from the other universes seemed impervious to it, like shoving a big mirror in the MCU's face and saying, "You see how dumb this sounds?"
When Aunt May died, it was as if the immaturity of the MCU and Tom Holland's Spider-Man died with her. Things finally became serious and meaningful.
Lmao fr, loved that movie because it actually managed to feel like all 3 eras of the Spider-Man films in 1
I always liked how they did factions in the stalker games and fallout 1-2, fallout nv
Probably my least favourite trend in recent years is making all of the factions seem bad to make picking one to side with difficult. Rather than making all the factions compelling with different perspectives
I liked the factions in Gothic/Gothic II a lot. Each of them has people who think they are doing the right thing, others who just want some profit, or security, or who were just swept into them because their house happened to be in the region they established themselves in. Some are assholes exploiting the lower ranks, some are helpful, some might cooperate with other factions if they deem them a good person, and others will just kick your shit in. Opportunists, procrastinators, or maybe people who just joined because a faction had the best weed. But all of them had a few who I really liked, who made sense, and whose motivations I understood and wanted to support. The type that makes you feel bad not to help them out, and makes picking one faction really hard. I love that moment in games.
Exactly. Only a few games do this well, but Piranha Bytes constantly delivered on interesting factions. Be it Gothic, Risen or Elex universes.
I agree with making memorable characters with different personalities within the faction. This is actually what can save an average story, because players might not remember a game for it's story but they always remember memorable characters.
As a GM having goals for npc and factions is a big help as you can derive how the group would react.
isn't every GM controlled character a PC tho?
No the GM controls non-playable characters. However, I still don't necessarily agree with Kotor610 because one can never consistently determine the reactions of player characters.@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799
@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799 We call them npc
Maybe a little off-topic but game called Stalker is good example of how fractions need to be made. You not choose which one is less bad/shit, but one that you like more. Sadly not every game understands that.
I was also thinking of Stalker as a really good example. The factions actually have stories and goals that make sense to them.
Checked the comments first so see if anyone had mentioned Stalker, so thank you!
The situation in that universe is so terrible that there's not really a good solution, so it makes sense that there's all sorts of competing ideas around what should be done with the zone.
And any given faction isn't a monolithic entity, but have sub-factions within them as well, that all have their nuanced ideas.
For example:
>Duty: Wants to destroy the Zone
>Freedom: Wants to make peace with the Zone
>Army: Wants to keep people out and monsters in
>Scientists: Want to study the Zone
And so on
1:14 makes me wonder what his opinion is on the monolith faction
extremely happy to hear your thoughts on overly sarcastic characters
I finally started playing fallout 1, the first two games were on sale and I figured it’s about time I play them. I thought they would be hard to get into but they honestly hold up surprisingly well, the AP system reminds me of newer games such as divinity.
I’m currently on a personal quest to shoot every major villain in the groin… idk if I can shoot the master in the groin but I’ll cross that bridge when I get there.
Anyways this game is a blast and it’s inspired me to homebrew a fallout tabletop RPG. So these videos are really helpful right now, thanks Tim!
10:46 this is exactly how i always do my playthroughs of new vegas, i love it!
Soild advice for writers and DMs as well! One of your best videos Tim. Thank you.
Thank you for the great advice.
I would ve very interested in your thoughts on how to build relationships between factions (and characters), mostly from the setting and mechanics perspective.
Thanks again. Have a great day!
I will probably never design a game myself but I find these videos completely delightful to listen to. Thanks for putting them out there.
Hi Tim! I find your videos thoughtful and well presented. Thanks!
This was quite interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Great points! also I don't know if this is intentional but the original factions also support the general themes of fallout. Most have some kind of fascination with the future or the past
Tim keeping us well fed
I'd like to see a video on deliberate plot-holes and loose ends in game story/lore.
It'd be really cool to see a talk with you and Jason Anderson one of these days
I really like the fisto lore, protectrons are always so goofy
Please assume the position
New Vegas factions were top notch!
I found them a bit too static, next improvement over them would be if they actually did more of cross factions interactions that were player influenced. Like in a 4x game where each faction has set tolerance towards other factions beliefs.
@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799 pretty great for 18 months in dev with a foreign engine following a game with terribly shallow writing/"factions" and essentially 0 real reputation mechanics.
@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799but yes, they kind of went for the illusion of complexity which didn't hold for very long.
@@brennanmcdonnell9343 I'm not knocking down fallout nv factions, it's more about the general state of affairs in games with factions. Yeah if there is some cross faction interaction it's more or less hard coded based on the will of the "god".
Some systemic diplomacy would be nice, that's all.
@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799I like the dynamics of factions in Warband (and to a lesser extent, Bannerlord), although arguably 90% of it happens in my head and not the actual game. I still think it's great design to use the player's mind if you can pull that off (like Dwarf fortress does).
Genuinely Tim's videos make me think deeper about the stories I'm told
The best DnD game I ever DMd was a Christmas one shot where the players show up at a town just before its Christmas holiday and discover the town has Robot Santa from Futurama. I did very little specific plot or dialog planning. I created a few factions, and locations, and within each faction I came up with some different motivations and conflicts. When the players talked to an NPC I just picked a faction and some goals, and that made it super easy to improvise the NPC on the spot and give the players a lot of room to take the plot in different directions. It worked fantastically.
The point about humans with less radiation exposure making better mutants (which I didn’t know before, very interesting) makes me wonder what would happen if the mutants were to try dipping a ghoul (feral or non-feral, either/or). Would they just die? Has something like this been mentioned before, in the lore or otherwise?
Harold is the closest case that comes to my mind, but if I’m not mistaken, his ghoulish symptoms came about after/as a result of FEV exposure
I appreciate this, i wonder about your thoughts about factions that have conflicting goals.
an example would be world of warcrafts alliance and horde factions how they have goals and homes for the different races of peoples, i would like to hear your thoughts about factions that directly oppose each other. in order to promote pvp type play.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom here.
Hi Tim,
The title of the video made me think this was about "good" factions rather than good factions.
But it did make me ponder, what makes a compelling evil choice from your perspective.
Edit: and how do you design compelling evil choices.
all too often evil feels like a 2nd lesser considered line in games which lessens the game rather than improves it, or its feels half finished.
Hey Tim!! I am a huge fan of yours and the world you and your team created for Fallout. I'm currently working on a book and a music collective based on your story and would love to chat to get your blessing!!
Well I learned "raison d'etre" & know what that means now lol. Great video, building factions is always the most enjoyable part of worldbuilding for myself personally. I could talk about the factions in FNV especially for hours
I remember reading once that sarcasm is the bottom level of rhetoric. I think it was one of the Monty Python guys.
Thanks for the content Tim!
My students and myself find your videos an endless source of knowledge!
Here's a question: Do you have any advice for when individuals in a team are too passionate and end up running laps around the rest of the members? Taking on tasks outside of their role and (maybe) worst of all - expects the other members to keep up with their (unhealthy) workload?
I've seen it happen on multiple occasions that some individuals gradually starts assuming roles and tasks far beyond what is asked of them. And while they might think themselves as heroes - they foster resentment towards themselves for robbing other members of their tasks.
Does a student on the team assume the producer role? If so, have that person hand out tasks. If the passionate student finishes early, they can either work on tasks that were assigned to students who are taking longer than expected OR work on lower priority tasks that would make the game higher quality.
"they foster resentment towards themselves for robbing other members of their tasks"
Are you sure you're not the catalyst for that resentment? If you didn't point it out as an issue would they really resent themselves?
Usually people go above and beyond because they are motivated, don't demotivate your exceptionally motivated people.
Also maybe the extra fast people should group up and work on a more substantial project in that same timeframe, each learn at their own pace and if they do project at home, they must be so much further than their peers, just based on their effort.
Taking tasks outside their role also sounds like a good strategy to learn, so I really don't see where the issue even begins.
If you're exceptional students aren't arrogant and they are good teachers/presenters, you could try giving them teachers role on subjects that they truly excel at, I wouldn't force it on them.
@@CainOnGames Thank you for the answer. Unfortunately, the Teams in question, our students, are without Producers.
But not necessarily so.
Let me offer some context;
During 4 separate occasions throughout their education - we run Game Projects.
The projects have all of our educations collaborate as we form large teams of students.
Team sizes range from 10-16 participants, and are comprised of a healthy mix of: Game Design, Game Programmer, Game Artist, QA, UX, Animation & VFX students.
Each team comes to the understanding on how they wish to structure their hierarchy - with some guidance of course.
They write up team contracts, which serves to guide both the team and individuals on their respective field of responsibility.
At the moment, the roles we require to be filled out in the contract is PO and Scrum Master, the rest is up to the team to decide.
They then set out to create a vertical slice based on a theme, much like an extended Game Jam over the span of 4-7 weeks.
The intent with our Game Projects is to offer our students a better insight into semi-structured game development and the importance of communication, teamwork, cohesive and unified visions.
This being said, there's the possibility of students internally deciding on a producer in their Team contracts, which sort of leads me to a different question entirely.
What is the size threshold when a team should start seeing managerial roles such as Directors, Producers, Leads et cetera?
@@henriklindfors931it’s curious that you have the students assume every role except producer. They’re an important part of game development, and I’ve think they should be represented, especially on teams the size of yours,10-16. In fact once you have more than 5 or 6 people, you need some coordination
@@CainOnGames Thanks for the input!
I suppose its due to the fact that we do not offer any courses or lectures on the topic of Producers. (what they are, what they do, and how to be an effective one.)
We will definitely look into finding some lecturers on the topic in time for our next game project!
Thanks again!
I'm always baffled by how much interesting thoughts you can fit in so little time.
Would you please explain a bit your trains of thought which help you while actually starting to design the setting itself? Not necessarily in the lens of game design, but in general.
You know, how to merge a lot of separate ideas into some clear picture. Do I start with the world or the setting? Are factions more important than plot lines? Do you have or know about a practise to order the chaos in one's head?
I'm probably phrasing that very poorly, but I'm very interested in how you actually start to begin or begin to start.
What factions did Arcanum have? All I can remember were the Hand (who *were* a pretty unified monolithic entity), and the Unified Kingdom-Caladon-Cumbria triad (and Cumbria is the only one where I can really think of that had characters who were concretely linked to the faction as a faction, instead of merely in a place, and had their own voice distinct from the others).
Hi Tim, what are some good ways in your opinion to make choices feel like they matter to the player, and is there any tricks to structure a story in the way that make this into an easier job?
This video might help, along with the one it links in its description.
How To Gate Non-Linear Stories
th-cam.com/video/qm2qwgVwf1A/w-d-xo.html
@@CainOnGames thanks! I think I missed this one, but along side it do you have any other tips for some good ways (and easy to implement) to show the player their actions had some consequences? Whenever I think about this I remember Tyranny and how the dialogue of that game always keeps bring some choice or action you've made
Hey Tim! What do you think as both a leader and an employee about letting your superiors know your ambitions and career choices that you know they might disagree with?
Even though I am pretty high up, I see that my bosses are charting a path for me that I am not excited about, but am 'afraid' of letting them know about that because I may not align with their business needs.
Literally writing factions for a tabletop rpg I've been developing when this appeared.
I should write a game where there's only one sarcastic character and they're persecuted and scorned by everyone for being annoying and stupid
Hi Tim! With all the rumors circulating about the potential Arcanum reboot, if there's any truth to them, I'm keen to throw my hat in the ring. With 10 years of experience, including recent work on Baldur's Gate 3, I'm excited about the possibility of contributing as a lead producer.If you're interested in exploring this further, I'd be happy to discuss it with you. Looking forward to potentially connecting!
I have been wondering if there are even more basic principles of factions, even to the degree that we could consider procedural factions.. or just design principles that establish that our set of factions with often linear content interrelate to be more than just linear content in random orders.. and what sort of diagrams we would use if any.
I have few pet peeves with games but one of them is when I have to join a facion to get through the game, I don't like idiological groups and don't want to join a mob, even not in a game. So there can be factions to trade or do missions for but if I have to join at some point and can't just be a neutral freelancer that does jobs for everyone I won't be able to play through the game.
Mr. Cain, I have a question. If you'll given the opportunity to make a new fallout game with full creative control, what it will be about? what storyline or factions you'll focus on?
I apologize for this, but can anyone tell me what video Tim mentioned China nuking first? Would LOVE to see him talk about that.
Same
I'm pretty sure it's the "A conversation with Fallout Creator Tim Cain" by Tks-Mantis. It's also stated in the Fallout Bibles and the original games.
@@Kirill-ig6nr Oh sweet! Okay, looking up the video. Also, Fallout Bibles? I'll have to look that up too.
And it's talked about in the original games? Huh. I've seen a lot of people act like it was never talked about. Whelp, gotta play the originals now too.
Kirill, thank you so much!
@dontcallmesurly6118 Most people haven't played the originals because they're really old. The United States invaded mainland China and was winning heavily, and in desperation, China fired the first nukes.
New Vegas has multiple references to the invasion with Old World Blues and the Gobi Campaign Rifle.
The Enclave President in Fallout 2 just directly states, "We were winning, too. And then those damn Reds launched everything they had. We barely got our birds up".
The Fallout Bibles are a collection of lore and development notes compiled from the original games and Fallout New Vegas.
Another idea is if you think a faction is too monolith is to break it up into sub factions. In New Vegas, House wanted a free Vegas but the strip was more of a federation of tribes he civilized, who each had their own uniqueness to them.
Kinda shocked you didn't mention TOEE. You have the broad Homlett v. Temple conflict, but within those two broad factions, you have subfactions working against one another. So there is the conflict between the Church of St. Cuthbert and Jaroo's nature-based faith. And there at least 5 factions within the temple proper--some cooperate under a misunderstanding of the main faction's real goals.
Likely because those were in the original module.
Factions are so interesting I love the NCR cuz I grew up in Cali I like to take the diplomatic side of things so I went with them u see a lot of parallels to real plights n strengths the state has from the governments insane taxes, they r envoirmentalist providing clean water and power from the hilos station like we invest in solar power, even soldiers like some of my friends who go in but they sign up for the benefits not the action n want desk jobs or bureaucrat positions which doesn’t work very well in the waste, it’s very conflicting which side to choose from but having factions who align with your ideologies and give you fun quests n unique armors/weapons even endings is really what gives the game so much weight having the factions have important deep rooted conflict in everything with the ending slides is super good at making everything you do feel like it has weight. Without the system as you say just mindless killing is senseless I want a game so complex if I go up to any ole NPC n take em out even aggrod ones out the gate 9/10 they’ll be a part of a faction where u do have to pick sides unless like you said u are a master of disguise and very good at sneak & planning your play style that makes a games choices even more compelling and rich & adds this nice level of realism with the weight to your morality it isn’t just for character writing so much as it is for world building truly
Hi, Tim! I wonder if you've seen hbomberguy's videos about Fallout 3 and NV - you and him highlight very similar points, though he speaks from a consumer viewpoint.
Whats your opinion on Stalker factions.
Hi, I have questions, and they're all about the same thing.
When it comes to fast travel in games, where do you draw the line between 'dumbed down', and tedious?
So for instance, in The Outer Worlds, you can fast travel to any discovered area on the local map. But if you want to go to another planet, you need to go back to the ship, and use the star map in the cockpit.
So my question is, what difference would it have made, if you just allowed the player to open, and use the star map from anywhere outside the ship?
Is there any gameplay-related reason for gating interplanetary travel to the ship, or is it just for added realism?
I hope my phrasing was clear enough, and thank you :)
Yeah, starfield did the same thing, and because there were like 3 loading screens in between each planet, you really feel the cost(+ cinematics).
I wasn't as annoyed in outer worlds, or kotor, you usually stick to the planet once you arrive, and don't have to zig zag around the universe as much.
pretty sure this was done for immersion, you associating your ship with physical traveling and not "magic"
I feel like this video boils down to "Populate each faction with varying, interesting characters" but personally I'd be more interested in the macro-level reasons for designing those factions. Why do the mutants, BoS, Children, necro ghouls, etcetera exist? Or maybe, in what order were those factions conceived? And if one was added in relation or response to another, why?
Tldw: “too long” “don’t whine”
I agree with everything you said in the video.
Tim Cain in the membraaaaaaane
My second biggest gripe(first is organization, their menus are a mess) with modern Bethesda games is their lack of writers. Having their level designers do it has led to similar characters, similar quests, and subpar story telling.
There's something to say about identifying to players what the factions are. These guys are whatever and then the other guys in the other town are the other whatever. And it's displayed so perfectly in the UI, raise points here and there to gain faction points. I think it's so silly to do this. Make it more ambiguous, nuanced. Factions are more fun when there are no points and raising levels, it's very dialogue and interaction based and not every npc should be samey.
Do Stormcloaks and Imperials count as factions? Or is that more a Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood thing?
thank you for the spoiler alert! i grew up with fallout 2 and watching your videos here has made me excited to play the original lol
The china nuked first thing is not a spoiler its more that its the one thing many people argue about since bethesda never really touched the topic with a clear answer and many people havent played the old ones.
And with you saying that its like divine intervention making clear that was the original intention , even tho bethesda might (have) changed it.
Bethesda doesn't know what fallout is...
@@wesss9353 regardless, they own it so its up to them to decide who nuked first now...
@@malik740 Vault Tec shot first then.
@@malik740Bethesda owns the IP but still has no idea what it is or what to do with it.
Brb imagining good factions 😊
So speaking of factions, what about reputation mechanics? I kinda get the feeling that the less monolithic a faction is the more nuanced and complicated any kind of reputation system would be.
Hey Tim, really glad I found your channel (maybe I need to thank Asmongold for that), I love Fallout and it's so interesting to hear these behind the scenes of Fallout & general games development stories. Do you think it would be a good idea for Xbox to form a dedicated Fallout team so we players don't have to wait 10 years between games? Definitely don't want to dilute the franchise, but if we could get something every 2-5 years would be nice I think
BTW, I've put some thoughts into the "inherently evil fantasy race" issues, that could get rid of the stupid trope whilst still keeping some of the sauce.
If we treat it as the bad memories of the time said race had an empire, so like the tales of Caligula in the Roman empire, or how Germany was viewed up to and into the 2000s. Atrocities were very real, and the taint sticks, but the people today are not guilty by their own actions, only through association/inheritance.
Like modern Drow live their lives scattered and maybe in small enclaves, just living their lives raising their kids, but they still have the stigma, and you can probably find small fragments who still aspire to that old image, maybe even leaning into the evil tropes, because it's a part of the image they know, or because they can use it as an excuse to be their worst.
Would love to hear your thoughts
The reds launching first was a spoiler? I think it was mentioned in ww2 at least
As a mature, sophisticated 30 year old with a full understanding of complex and nuanced morality and a passionate interest the hypothetical ethics and politics that would emerge in a post nuclear wasteland... I support the Brotherhood Of Steel, because Power Armor is awesome 😅
Sarcasm is a reaction or a tactic, not a character trait. Good characters deploy sarcasm as a tool or coping mechanism.
Hi Everyone Its me Tim
For spoilers I give it a time limit for the first year spoiler free then anytime after that it will diminish after 3 years I will spoil everything cuz it's on you to play that game not on me if you don't make it a priority it's not a priority to me to keep it a secret
I always say sarcasm is a witless way to try and be funny. It takes no real cleverness or sharpness.
That's why teenagers do it.
"Are you being sarcastic, Dude??"
"I don't even know anymore."
When did Tim mention China nuking first?
www.pcgamer.com/fallout-co-creator-settles-over-two-decades-of-fan-debate-about-who-nuked-who-with-a-single-off-hand-comment-on-a-podcast/
@@CainOnGames Hey thanks for the personal response!
@@CainOnGamesso aliens have nothing to do with the great war? then what exactly are they looking for on earth? or bethesda really have no idea what they are doing 😂?
Still gets me every time people get upset over the Brotherhood in Fallout 4. Nothing says ‘I started with fallout 3D’ like that anger.
Dude you’re so cool
Wow bro love your content mmmmhh not monolític mmmh ok 😅 more customization?
Hey Tim could you do a video about Retcons in fallout
I don't really like it when games have that menu with reputation bars tied to rewards for each faction and eventually you're forced to side with a faction vs another.
I would keep the factions for world building or antagonists, but get rid of these systems.
If you cant give good writing advice, do you know anyone who can? Anyone can think of a faction but that doesnt mean they're talented, like you pointed out.
Man is he gonna be mad about the fallout show coming
many writers seem to be unaware of the common adage: "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit."
As an artist, I find that design comes so naturally to me, but I can't write for shit either. One of the easiest things I tend to think about in the design of a faction is something unifying like a color that visually ties them all together. I start really basic, and then develop from there.
Can you elaborate in detail?
@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799 so when I am using a drawing approach, I'll start conceptualizing with a color pallet I am using. You can use this and bring in some forms of heraldry, what do colors and symbols mean? Start drawing inspiration from cultures around the world, and using unifying pieces.
In Fallout, an example of this would be the Legion, and how they all have similar armor, in the same color. The NCR can be identified by their weaponry, their uniforms, and most identifiably, The NCR Ranger outfit.
Costumes and colors inspire. Heavy use of red can indicate an inclination to violence, or how purples can be used to instill a sense of wealth.
@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799 think of the contrast of those bright blue vault suits, in a world that is devoid of life and safe drinking water. It creates visual interest, and is a unique form of storytelling within the world that adds layers of depth and identity.
You can use something like the color blue and tie it back to the decision to be seeking a water chip.
@@ArtworkByBoneless That draw inspiration.. and using unifying pieces, that sounds very esoteric, it's not exactly an explanation you'd give to a 5 year old.
But yeah, you pick a color, you have some associations with that color, and then you find some concrete examples for the inspiration, after that you adapt them into your setting.
So for example, i think of "green" then I think "death" then the necrons come to mind, and if I had to adapt necrons to fallout new vegas, I'd probably go with ghouls that have weaponized their glowing brethren as elite soldiers, armored them up, and go around extorting the more civilized people for supplies and power. It doesn't really go into much of depth of what motivates them, but I suppose a half rotten person might have some hatred towards the not so disfigured brethren. Also since ghouls live a very long life, they could in theory be more advanced that regular people, and possible in search for a way to restore their bodies to a more pristine state.
But they also start to seem a bit like supermutants.
but yeah, I guess I understand your method a bit better once that I've used it.
Color still seems like a weird starting point when you want to write, but as long as it works.
@@bezceljudzelzceljsh5799 I'm not a writer. I do concept art
I feel basic storytelling is your baseline. Translation to compelling gameplay, not my wheelhouse.
But I can guess.
Conflict is the spice of any tale. Factions should serve a varying flavor of playthrough.
Ethics, morality, bonus whatever, i don't know. But Fallout Uno had a building wtf comprehension of factions. And character/story direction and development.
You can get water merchants to buck your... f'ed up water chip. Downside: Other factions are now aware of Vault 13.
Faction awareness, great. Impact and exchange, known or wh... I didn't know that was a thing... better. For gameplay. My opinion. Sure. Why not.
Sidenote: Even my first playthroughs of Fallout proper, back before I was ... what's called a "Dotcommer", I avoided that water merchant option, latently getting it'd leave a snail trail to my home.
He Flower pushing weirdos of The Master, by proxy were an IMMEDIATE red flag of WTF, back 1998.
Bethesda should take some notes.
Great advice for Starfield writers...6 years too late. 😆. Wonderful content though, thank you!
Edgy and sarcastic are the characteristics of 90% characters in the modern AAA games... 😅
This is one problem I had with D:OS2; there just weren't any good factions I could support. It was a slew of evil choices and only at most one way to be kinda good, but only if you genocide half the NPCs in each map. The game is way overrated.
The bandit leader in Arcanum that uses words wrong made me laugh sooo much way back in the day. Just thought he was so smart but he's mispronounce big words OFTEN.
Uh? Mom?
Too many sarcastic characters? I honestly couldn’t give you a character who’s whole thing is being sarcastic off the top of my head, maybe it’s because of the type of games I play. Can someone name a couple of characters or games for me? Just out of curiosity.
( I do like the mean-fun characters though, Cavalero from warframe immediately comes to mind when you mention those types. I love it when he says “hell yeah! You’re my favourite little meat grinder!”, he’s a mean guy, but boy is he fun)
i know Morte from Planescape and Zyzyx from Sacrifice, they're voiced by the same guy too! oh and the narrator from Dungeon Keeper that give mission briefings. Another one: HK-47 from KOTOR.
Sans from Undertale
Glados from Portal and the narrator from Stanley Parable(never played it but from what i've seen it fits)
Every character in There is No Game Wrong Dimension.
@@boi9842that is actually a really good example, I can’t believe I didn’t remember sans XD I can see how some people tire from that
I think you can make a faction that's an outright monolith, but you need to make a very overt point about it in the story.
Factions in tyranny worked great. In pillars tho...
you want identities not cliché
I agree with what you said about sarcastic characters Tim. It's incredibly tiresome when characters are cocky or sarcastic because it's such an over-used trope. And that's not an attractive trait in my opinion, unless they also make the character complex and likeable; don't have a character whose personality is "they're sarcastic", but do if they are that way because they perhaps are insecure or hiding behind a mask.
ceaser's legion best faction
tim
I prefer nuanced and grey factions.
Future is evil
I genuinely hope Bethesda writers are listening
So aliens have nothing to do with the great war? then what exactly are they looking for on earth? or bethesda really have no idea what they are doing 😂?