I can relate being homeless for a bit in the early 2000s and then in the military for five years! I’m still rediscovering books and media from the 2000s.
While you make outstanding points about work-life balance, I must confess the "Britney Spears" anecdote had me rolling! Be well and all the best, Tim! Thank you for sharing.
This was difficult, but valuable, to watch. You see, I too lost time - half a decade, in my case - but rather than being to overwork, it was to poverty. I'd skip out on movie nights with my friends because I couldn't afford the ticket; I'd avoid having friends over because my house was a den of broke misery. In the end, this left me losing friendships I should've kept - and the cultural moments they should have provided. So I too, have the disconnect... it's gotten better over time (and now I have a job, so there's that), but there's still a notable hole where a whole lot of cultural connection 'should' have been. It's tough. I feel ya.
Hey Tim, a few words. I've noticed you've been mentioning your "lost decade" for a few videos now. And I got to say that even if you understandably feel that you "lost" a decade, you gained something that most won't ever have: you added beloved creations to the colective conciousness of the western world, and, most importantly, you made and still make millions of people happy. As one can gather from your daily videos, your workaholism was integral to that result. Who knows how history would've looked at those legendary IPs if not for that? And maybe it wasn't the best lifestyle, but you live and learn, nobody is born knowing really how to live, and I might even say that is because of what we lived that we tend to do the things we do. So long story short, to many of us your lost decade gave us joy, like an indirect sacrifice if you will. So if you ask if it was worth it, maybe to you it wasn't, only you know what you transpired, but for the rest of us, oh boy, it was. And all the good that came from your sacrifice is never going away. So all in all, you have my wholeheartedly thanks for that.
That's an extremely selfish take. "Sure, you lost an extremely large amount of time from your life that you will never get back, but you had an impact in gaming!"
@@daytonode No, it's just gratitude for what he's done. Incidentally, this degree of commitment isn't out of the ordinary for "greats" in various fields of human endeavour. Van Gogh starved and drove himself to a psychotic break. At least Tim still has both ears.
Workaholics fascinate me. I simply can’t function that way, I get depressed and burn out quickly. I’m envious of those that are passionate to the point of obsession, and I have those tendencies, but I need more than that to feel at all fulfilled.
I am glad you are talking about this. I too had a lost decade, though it was in business software rather than games. Worked 60-80 hours a week for that decade. I had no hobbies, I didn't associate with any other people, similarly have no memory of movies or music, and I ruined my body by forcing myself to stay awake with energy drinks and soda. The effects of that on my body and my life were permanent. I never realized that I was ruining myself until after it was too late, after the damage had already been done. That's why I am so glad when I see young people come to our company rather than another software company. We try to not let people do that to themselves, and it is easy when you are passionate about what you do to fall into that, and you dont know how much harm you have done to yourself until years later.
Your point about ruining your body by pushing it too hard is definitely a good one, I'm glad your current company is cognisant of the dangers inherent in working too much to the detriment of your health!
That's a great thing to do for your younger employees. I have no idea how you managed to do 60-80 for 10 years. (Some) Work culture has a lot to answer for. My sanity took severe strain during the few months I worked 100+ hour weeks doing games QA just to afford rent - I picked up every single shift I could get, including overnight ones. It took many years for my brain to recover, along with my poor eating habits to sustain that amount of uptime. It ultimately put my body out of whack (and then my mind) so much that I lost the past 9 or so years of my life from health issues. Even now I'm finding it really tough to pick up the pieces after physical -- but not entirely mental, and certainly not career -- recovery.
@@atheosmachina yeah, it really messed me up bad. Got type 2 diabetes from the decade of eating shitty food so I could get right back to work and energy drinks/sodas to stay awake. Got chronic back problems. Lost lots of relationships including my first marriage. Bad times, but I hope young folks can learn from it. Times are better now but only because I got over my work addiction, and I feel like I only did because it was either that or an early grave. Particularly once I got that diabetes diagnosis.
@@EdgarVerona Glad you've turned things around at least. There's something to be said for work in general. As humans, many/most of us like to keep busy, but we've been sucked into a false sense of value in 20th/21st century life in my opinion.
Exactly. He actually accomplished something with his talent and made a lot of people happy. The FO franchise has its own tv-show now. I get what he's saying here, but from our perspective it was more than worth it. He kind of reached celebrity status.
I had a similar experience, having to learn things in my early adulthood that other people took for granted knowing. It can be a strugle, but looking back, you just had other experiences that "normal" people didnt have. You created a very significant piece of culture that have had an effect on many peoples lives. So im glad you dont regret those years! It meant a lot to me at least. Greetings from Norway by the way 👋
To think you hardly experienced it, but helped make one of the best period pieces of that time (VTM:B) is awesome. Love your work dude, you've given me thousands of hours of entertainment.
I'm glad you have reconciled with your lost decade. Everyone is different and will have their own perspective. Speaking for myself, I could never accept such a lopsided work/life balance but coming from Europe with a healthy work/life balance that is enforced by EU laws naturally Europeans are inclined to think and live differently. I've also never been as passionate about any job as you are with making videogames so it's difficult for me and I'm sure many others to see it the way you do. Thanks for sharing!
Some year ago I was listening to a "best songs of the last 10 years" list on youtube when I realized I didn't know the last 5 years artists. A weird feeling of being left behind. After high school this happens so easely while you focus on college/work/family.
My issue is not with losing whatever the cultural zeitgeist is "now". My issue is with stress and lack of rest. I already have problems with depression and anxiety. Stress and not getting enough rest massively compound them. I respect people who can work in such conditions without becoming suicidal, but I'm not one of them.
And for every success story in this kind of a work environment, there are dozens of people who come out of it much worse off, where it was unambiguously bad in all aspects in retrospect.
@@JustGrowingUp84 yeah, agreed that in general that's a good thing to have. But you can also get that without having to risk your long term well being - it's tough because in the moment it is almost an addiction. I was totally there. My job was business software, but I had a lot of leeway and ownership over what I made and why. That ownership itself in some ways pushed me even harder, it became an issue of personal pride. And pride in your work is also good - just as long as you aren't destroying yourself for it.
This resonates with me. It strongly brings to mind the years I did long haul trucking. Lived in the cab, got home for the weekend and played some videogames, then off again for another week. I still do long haul occasionally, but having a mostly reliable internet connection everywhere is an absolute game changer.
I guess this is the difference between the US and EU. In Europe, we don't see this as romantic or idealistic, in fact quite the opposite, we see it as dystopian. It's great to have passion, it's also great to work beyond the 9 to 5, but if you're ever in circumstances where you have to work like this (even if it's self-imposed), something's not quite right.
Neither do we. It just happens, largely depending on circumstances. Tim was working in a fledgling medium. Probably anyone who picked up a career in IT, web design and development during roughly the same time period -- and probably had it fall in their lap as opposed to going looking for it -- can relate to most of what he's saying. They were new fields; they were different; no one knew what they were doing, per se, and just kind of winging it and learning from each other as well as "the hard way" as they went. There were no classes; no degrees; no structured educational programs whatsoever, as there are now. People were coming from established careers, e.g. print (and bringing a lot of habits with them that weren't suitable for the Web, btw), and as many of the "lost" hours were actually spent learning and researching new techniques for doing things, new languages and what have you. I doubt my employers had any idea that my day never ended when I left their offices. I got home and booted up my computer and just kept learning and working and creating demos (of sorts) to show the project manager for his approval, etc. I loved what I was doing and was a little devastated to have so much of what I was doing taken away from me as areas of expertise began to emerge and split off into specializations of one kind or another. That was actually a way more difficult time for me than the "lost" years, which I don't consider at all lost myself. In fact, they were the best years of my life.
@@lrinfiI don’t know. There is a huge hustle/grind culture in the U.S. Some people cite Benjamin Franklin’s autobiography as being the first instance of a self made man mythology. It definitely had a lasting effect on the U.S
@@dogecoin1692 The ubiquitous hustle/grind culture of which you speak is different than the time period of fledgling fields to which I refer, which was predominated by startups and small businesses which may have had to wrestle with entities far larger and more powerful, e.g. publishers, but were generally independently owned and operated. Such fledgling fields were a joy to work in at the time, but not so much for a great many people now due to the industrialization of them over the past few decades. Now, they're part and parcel of the Megamachine, which is why we're seeing "crunch" issues and the like rearing their heads in the video game industry. It's inherited such issues from the industries that came before it and is no longer as creative a field as it once was. Once a field becomes industrialized, production takes precedence over creation very nearly to the exclusion of it.
It’s not lost one bit! Your legacy will persevere. You’ve changed the world for better or worse. Most people’s lifetimes combined wouldn’t dream to achieve such a feat while it took you only a decade.
Funny, because I feel like my whole life I was trying to chase something to grind, since guitar was my first passion and it taught be how driven life can be if you find that one thing. For a long time since then, I've been trying to find it and obviously societal milestones are expected to be fulfilled, so I just did them because that was what was expected of me. So I went to parties, got a retail job, killed whole days with friends going from place to place, vacations, fancy restaurants, college, clubs, extracurriculars, an internship, couple girls were interested in me, grinded academics etc. The only thing I felt was worth it was learning that I don't value those things as much as other people - there are other things, but that was the main thing. I envy people like you who found their grind, at my age that obstacle is already past them and they're fulfilling much further milestones by now while I haven't even gotten anything off the ground.
This sums up my experience at Illinois Institute of Art when it comes to not recommending it but not regretting attending. I still look at my severely outdated student work and yet it still fascinates me that I created it. Working with programs such as Maya, Photoshop, and After Effects to create images and edit them was a whole new world that opened for me. Noone can take the history you created Tim regardless of the sacrifice.
Of all videos you've made Tim, this one hits hard I won't get into details why but let me just say... I'm a concept artist working in game dev for the past 10 years... I haven't been on ANY holidays/vacations etc. in all those years... Anyway - Thx for all the content
Please take the time for yourself. For every story of someone who made Fallout in their lost decade there are dozens of people who - instead of seeing a huge payout from it - just get permanent harm to their relationships and their personal health. I promise you, the work will still be there if you also take time for yourself. There has to be a balance. Take it from me, a 40 year old who ruined myself with a similar "lost decade" in my 20's. I didn't learn the harm I did until I was in my 30's, when it was too late to undo. Don't end up in the same place, claim your time back.
You should still consider yourself lucky to have done all that work on something you were passionate about. During a period of my life I had to work 12hs a day weekends included, we only got 5 days a month off and we had to take them all together, so that meant it could be an entire month without a single day off, and on top of that rotating schedules, and it was doing something I hated. So if you ask me what I'd prefer, yeah, I'd totally prefer to have no life doing something I'm passionate about rather than the same but with something I hate. So yeah, even your lost decade makes me envious XD
First time I relate so much to somebody in this kind of topic. I am 31, started working at 24 in a lab. Since then, I feel I've dedicated my life to work and has stopped doing other things. I love my job, but people say I need to go out more and I think they are right. 😅 thanks for this video, it really made me think about my current work-life balance.. situation! 😊
It might be difficult to judge if it was all worth it, but because of your commitment we got to play your awesome games, that can easily be called masterpieces. Are they perfect? No. But they made an enourmous impact on the industry. You guys were shaping history, I am extremely grateful for what you have done.
"Hit me with a genie bottle" "Baby One More Time" was released on October 23, 1998. (Bspears) "Genie in a bottle" the song was released on 22 June 1999 I love when you put two things together. My favorite is "We will burn that bridge when we get to it"
Where I live it's in our constitution as one of the guidelines that work hours should leave the worker enough time for his self improvement, his family, his society and politics. This video specifically shows how important that is.
I get it completely. Im currently in my lost decades. In my late 20s I got a job as a steel worker. 16 hour days 6 days a week for 8 years until the day the plant closed its doors. I got a job at a convience store imediately afterwards where I worked 12-16 hours a day 6-7 days a week for 12 years. I finally left that job as I was extremely miserable there to work with/for my brother at another business where Ive spent the past year again living at my job. Working there Ive met a lot of the people in my subdivision which had no idea who I was or that Ive been living in this house for 22 years. I dont have a tv, never owned a cell phone, and I have no idea what people are talking about half the time. My only outlet all these years has been video games. When I get home from work I have a drink play a game for about 2 hours, get something to eat, and then watch youtube videos that are related the the games Im playing until I cant keep my eyes open anymore. Which usually results in 5 or less hours of sleep a day. Im at a point where Im just completely miserable with work. I no longer enjoy what I do, I cant stand the company I work for, and I cant stand the clientele. However leaving means being out of work for an extended period of time(the economy is very bad where I am) and when I do get something else Id be making roughly half of what I do now, which is already a financial struggle.
Thanks for another cool story. I also had lost years here and there. They add up to a decade. One time I cancelled a family event because I was busy at work. I pretty much lived in the office. Sometimes I left hours after midnight. I saved a LOT of multi-million $ contracts for the company. A few days later I got a call from my mother. I was in the office, working. She was crying - her mother died. Well, that family event I cancelled due to work could have been the last time I saw my grandma. Who knows, if I'm there maybe she could have lived longer. Her last words were asking where I am. Many years later I still have sleepless nights about it and sometimes cry for having been a shitty grandson to a grandmother who loved me dearly. Anyways, don't be married to your work. Oh, the company I worked for back then? I found out leadership was stealing a lot of money. I mean, amounts most people would kill for. They realized I might know about their shady shit. They fired me. I was never compensated for my work properly. I was never valued properly. In fact I was treated like a criminal during the exit procedures.
I can relate to being buried in work for a time and coming out of it feeling like the world has changed. I still find myself getting acquainted with tv shows and movies my friends quote that I have never seen. Thank you for sharing these videos and for all the time you spent creating games. I am glad you are still doing that. Games are the foundation of culture for many guys these days. People like you and the Bioware doctors did/do work that matters more than you know.
Thanks for posting this one. And you don't realize it until after the project is over. It's hard to imagine games getting made in just 40 hours work a week once you understand the productivity of the 'all-in' mentality.
its crazy to think how much we lose to fulfill the requirement to make the things we care. As long as you don't regret losing that time I think its worth it
I just came out of the exact same thing. For the last ten years all I've done is code for school/work and play video games. Had a mental breakdown after 10 years of that (triggered by watching Highlander of all things) then ended up getting diagnosed with OCD, getting medicated and now its like my brain has turned on for a second time.
Yea it's hard to really come to terms with lost time. I had to deal with cancer and an "unsuccessful" college experience that cost me nearly a decade of professional progress in my 20s. But even though I lost time I could've spent on game development, I can't fully say I regret it, since I was able to take more time to think and refine my designs and design philosophy. If I had made a game back then, it would've probably been shit, so I understand a bit why you might not regret how things went. However life goes, there's always ups and downs to it.
What an amazing story, thanks for sharing! It makes me think of my own experience, I'm not in the gaming industry but I'm coming up on a decade working in IT, I've had a few seasons in my life with the same work life balance pace you describe. Now I have a better balance, but I'm starting to feel tired and that it's time to move on, or at least work on a more meaningful project, so I can feel like I'm not wasting another decade.
You are a huge inspiration tim! i grew up playing your games and i learned a good amount of english from your games, i feel bad for what you went through but know that you achieved A LOT from that decade and you have left your mark on the industry. Im really happy to see that you made this channel and i hope you continue making these videos!
I think the question you have to ask is whether your games would have been worse if they had been allowed to take longer, so that the people working on them didn't have to choose between either making a great game or sacrificing their health. If it truly is an either/or situation (and I don't think it necessarily has to be), I choose health. Have games take longer and cost more to make, if that's what it takes to develop them sustainably and ethically.
Agreed, having been someone who had a very similar "lost decade" but ended up with type 2 diabetes and chronic back problems from the lack of care I took for myself during that decade. And many friendships as well as my first marriage that fell apart because I was just plain never there. If folks make the choice to devote themselves to something they are making in this way, they need to understand that the health risks they are taking may be undetected until it is too late to reverse them. And similarly with their relationships. For every story of someone who made great art by sacrificing some portion of their life and came out ahead in the end, there are dozens of people who made a similar sacrifice and only ended up with permanent harm from the attempt. And that is the real reason why we need our passion to be contained in an 8 hour a day window whenever possible. Those risks are real and the success stories are few but glamorous compared to the larger pool of people who end up hurt by it.
Not that I am upset with Tim for his perspective. I am glad it worked out for him in the long run! But I don't want young people to walk away with the impression that this sort of thing is what leads to success. It often doesn't, and success doesn't have to come from such a risky road. We can and must find ways to have a balance, to avoid the "all in" lost decade.
You are loved and respected by many people because of your "lost decade".😉 Btw, I will turn 40 in a few months and I lost two decades of my life.. not because of work, but other things. Going forward I'm determined not to lose a single day.
This actually resonates a lot with the experience of the 'rona happenings sweeping the world during your college years. Kinda reminds us how it's just generally important to remember that commonalities can be shared between such discretely specific circumstances.
I can somewhat relate, if only from the media aspect. I haven't watched tv for over three decades now, so doing the TV Guide crossword puzzles is no longer a thing, nor do I get many memes involving movies from the early-90s 'til now. But, I am a retiree so I have lots of time to see enough memes to get the gist of it all. I did watch the first two seasons of Stranger Things. Someday I might go watch the rest.
Just wanted to personally mention that I too relate. I don't want to go into any details, but my retrospect is that I needed that to be where I am today. I wouldn't be as successful, nor as happy. One thing always leads to another. The butterfly effect. However, while I'm reaping the benefits today, in a sense I never really stopped. Just started to prioritize other things as highly. Things like family, friends, hobbies etc. At least that's how I choose to see it. I don't know if this made any sense, but can't be more specific without mentioning details.
Thank you for these insightful videos and your hard work and dedication to your craft, all the above is greatly appreciated by many many folk (myself included if that’s not clear)
Wow you are amazing Tim. I feel a little sad to learn that one of my favorite RPGs of all time (Arcanum) was made under such intense work conditions for you (this seems beyond regular crunch). I'm glad you don't regret this lost decade. Did you get a chance to play Morrowind and/or Neverwinter nights at the time? If so what did you think of them?
Between your lost decade and recent video where you say sometimes you gotta sacrifice your life for work (but never mention sacrificing work for life), I have to ask a question. What did you retire/semi-retire to? It's something many approaching retirement or recently retired deal with. So many make work the focus of their life, they retire from something (work) but don't retire to something. Their entire adult life has been defined by their work and when asked who they are, they answer by what they do for work. Then when they retire, they are lost. Work was who and what they were, and they find retirement difficult because they have no identity outside of their job. I'd rather be remembered as a good man/person/friend that what I produced at work.
I mean, there are always "lost decades" in a person's life. I consider my lost decade from 28 to not 38. I conentrated to finish my degree and started as an programmer. I have done things according to plan, but haven't achieved a lot just experienced this massive social isolation. Of course I tried to actively change it, but it wouldn't work out. My social circle would have "wise lines" how to change things, but were vanishing in the background themselves. So, you can not control life. Your lost decade though is one of conscious action and "agency" (if I may use your game design terms Tim :-) ) and from that also came legendary titles. You now know better how to organize your life. But for some people life has a "hidden decade" around which is not by chosen workoholism and even if wouldn't yield anything worthwhile :-) But you did say that worklife balance and workoholism is a fine balance with no clear answer to whether it's worth it.
It was not lost, it was recharging. I can relate since I spent all my 20s trying to recover from early trauma. And now I'm more motivated than ever to pursue my passion! No regrets! Thank you for sharing your story!
I’m going to ask on a few of your videos. Hopefully you will see this if it becomes annoying please let me know. I would love to hear you speak on Todd, Howard, as well as other game developers like Michael Kirkbride You have already made it clear you don’t review things. But if you could just talk about how they work compared to you. Or ideas they have that you really love as a developer. I would be so happy! It would be especially great if you could get Todd or someone like that on a video call you’ve had your other friends here and they are just swell. I love them and their work. I can’t tell you how thankful I am for you and all the people you worked with.
I can totally relate, though I usually do it for months to a couple years at a time. Sometimes though I even stayed at work for months sleeping on the floor using a sleeping bag (they had a bathroom with a shower). A lot of top performe4s spend at least some time working insane amounts.
These kinds of stories frighten me, but I'm glad you shared it, and I have to admit I feel a similar workaholic urge. I wonder whether you would regret it had your creations not been successful/well-received? I'm just thinking about all the game devs and other creators who spent years toiling away, and when they finally released their work to the public it just did not land. Would love to hear your perspective on this.
God I relate to this. I'm 33. If it wasn't for my wife, I'd just work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. She drags my arse out of my cave a few times a month so I don't become a complete hermit lol. Never had a holiday since university, just been working nonstop. I think for some of us, we're just naturally obsessive about the things we care about. It's in our NATURE to feel comfortable being all-consumed. It feels authentic. Like I said, I'm happy I have my wife to save my from my own nature.
Yeah, you've definitely earned yourself a retirement after a career like this. Much sacrifice was made, but you churned out some great classic games that brightened the world just a bit for a lot of people. There's good in that.
"He wandered out of the Wasteland, it was here, in this blighted place, that he learned to live again."
I can relate being homeless for a bit in the early 2000s and then in the military for five years! I’m still rediscovering books and media from the 2000s.
Holy shit, that sure is extreme. Hope all is well now!
I'll need honest, your thing sounds worse.
While you make outstanding points about work-life balance, I must confess the "Britney Spears" anecdote had me rolling! Be well and all the best, Tim! Thank you for sharing.
I named my spear in Fallout 76 Spear-o Agnew but I might have to change it now
@@rrrrthats4rs Ha ha.
Tbf, missing out on trash pop culture is a bonus.
"Britney Spears? Is that a new weapon in the game?" lmao! I can't!
In that time, the world also went from fully-formed sentences to "I can't" ;)
@@paulie-g 😂
Britney's Spear hits one more time and also does 'toxic' damage.
Haha.
And 'Genie in a bottle' is Christine Aguilera. 3:33 "Hit me with your genie bottle." LMAO
Yes, but anyway, Oasis casts Wonderwall to protect against the next attack or criticism.
@@Nobody-df4isit's like a 90s music version of that meme of how to piss off three types of fantasy fans at once.
I probably also lost a decade.... playing the awesome games you made :D
This was difficult, but valuable, to watch. You see, I too lost time - half a decade, in my case - but rather than being to overwork, it was to poverty. I'd skip out on movie nights with my friends because I couldn't afford the ticket; I'd avoid having friends over because my house was a den of broke misery.
In the end, this left me losing friendships I should've kept - and the cultural moments they should have provided. So I too, have the disconnect... it's gotten better over time (and now I have a job, so there's that), but there's still a notable hole where a whole lot of cultural connection 'should' have been. It's tough. I feel ya.
Hey Tim, a few words. I've noticed you've been mentioning your "lost decade" for a few videos now. And I got to say that even if you understandably feel that you "lost" a decade, you gained something that most won't ever have: you added beloved creations to the colective conciousness of the western world, and, most importantly, you made and still make millions of people happy.
As one can gather from your daily videos, your workaholism was integral to that result. Who knows how history would've looked at those legendary IPs if not for that? And maybe it wasn't the best lifestyle, but you live and learn, nobody is born knowing really how to live, and I might even say that is because of what we lived that we tend to do the things we do.
So long story short, to many of us your lost decade gave us joy, like an indirect sacrifice if you will. So if you ask if it was worth it, maybe to you it wasn't, only you know what you transpired, but for the rest of us, oh boy, it was. And all the good that came from your sacrifice is never going away. So all in all, you have my wholeheartedly thanks for that.
That's an extremely selfish take. "Sure, you lost an extremely large amount of time from your life that you will never get back, but you had an impact in gaming!"
@@daytonode ok
Hey man, workahol is no joke
@@gallow_ That is true
@@daytonode No, it's just gratitude for what he's done. Incidentally, this degree of commitment isn't out of the ordinary for "greats" in various fields of human endeavour. Van Gogh starved and drove himself to a psychotic break. At least Tim still has both ears.
Workaholics fascinate me. I simply can’t function that way, I get depressed and burn out quickly.
I’m envious of those that are passionate to the point of obsession, and I have those tendencies, but I need more than that to feel at all fulfilled.
You may feel you have lost a decade, but you have given thousands years of happiness to others. It's the opposite of losing time.
I am glad you are talking about this. I too had a lost decade, though it was in business software rather than games.
Worked 60-80 hours a week for that decade. I had no hobbies, I didn't associate with any other people, similarly have no memory of movies or music, and I ruined my body by forcing myself to stay awake with energy drinks and soda.
The effects of that on my body and my life were permanent. I never realized that I was ruining myself until after it was too late, after the damage had already been done.
That's why I am so glad when I see young people come to our company rather than another software company. We try to not let people do that to themselves, and it is easy when you are passionate about what you do to fall into that, and you dont know how much harm you have done to yourself until years later.
Your point about ruining your body by pushing it too hard is definitely a good one, I'm glad your current company is cognisant of the dangers inherent in working too much to the detriment of your health!
That's a great thing to do for your younger employees. I have no idea how you managed to do 60-80 for 10 years. (Some) Work culture has a lot to answer for. My sanity took severe strain during the few months I worked 100+ hour weeks doing games QA just to afford rent - I picked up every single shift I could get, including overnight ones. It took many years for my brain to recover, along with my poor eating habits to sustain that amount of uptime. It ultimately put my body out of whack (and then my mind) so much that I lost the past 9 or so years of my life from health issues. Even now I'm finding it really tough to pick up the pieces after physical -- but not entirely mental, and certainly not career -- recovery.
@@atheosmachina yeah, it really messed me up bad. Got type 2 diabetes from the decade of eating shitty food so I could get right back to work and energy drinks/sodas to stay awake. Got chronic back problems. Lost lots of relationships including my first marriage. Bad times, but I hope young folks can learn from it. Times are better now but only because I got over my work addiction, and I feel like I only did because it was either that or an early grave. Particularly once I got that diabetes diagnosis.
@@EdgarVerona Glad you've turned things around at least. There's something to be said for work in general. As humans, many/most of us like to keep busy, but we've been sucked into a false sense of value in 20th/21st century life in my opinion.
My childhood would not be the same without Fallout. So for each day that you lost, millions fondly remember days your games enriched their lives.
Exactly. He actually accomplished something with his talent and made a lot of people happy. The FO franchise has its own tv-show now.
I get what he's saying here, but from our perspective it was more than worth it. He kind of reached celebrity status.
I wouldn't have mental energy to play games after work. You must be gifted with lots
He's like a gynecologist who still attracted to his wife...
I had a similar experience, having to learn things in my early adulthood that other people took for granted knowing. It can be a strugle, but looking back, you just had other experiences that "normal" people didnt have. You created a very significant piece of culture that have had an effect on many peoples lives. So im glad you dont regret those years! It meant a lot to me at least. Greetings from Norway by the way 👋
To think you hardly experienced it, but helped make one of the best period pieces of that time (VTM:B) is awesome. Love your work dude, you've given me thousands of hours of entertainment.
I'm glad you have reconciled with your lost decade. Everyone is different and will have their own perspective. Speaking for myself, I could never accept such a lopsided work/life balance but coming from Europe with a healthy work/life balance that is enforced by EU laws naturally Europeans are inclined to think and live differently. I've also never been as passionate about any job as you are with making videogames so it's difficult for me and I'm sure many others to see it the way you do. Thanks for sharing!
Some year ago I was listening to a "best songs of the last 10 years" list on youtube when I realized I didn't know the last 5 years artists. A weird feeling of being left behind. After high school this happens so easely while you focus on college/work/family.
My issue is not with losing whatever the cultural zeitgeist is "now".
My issue is with stress and lack of rest.
I already have problems with depression and anxiety.
Stress and not getting enough rest massively compound them.
I respect people who can work in such conditions without becoming suicidal, but I'm not one of them.
And for every success story in this kind of a work environment, there are dozens of people who come out of it much worse off, where it was unambiguously bad in all aspects in retrospect.
@@EdgarVerona Yeah, at least Tim got to work on his own projects, without a lot of interference from the higher-ups.
@@JustGrowingUp84 yeah, agreed that in general that's a good thing to have. But you can also get that without having to risk your long term well being - it's tough because in the moment it is almost an addiction. I was totally there. My job was business software, but I had a lot of leeway and ownership over what I made and why. That ownership itself in some ways pushed me even harder, it became an issue of personal pride.
And pride in your work is also good - just as long as you aren't destroying yourself for it.
@@EdgarVerona Yeah, I know what you mean.
And "almost addiction" is a good description.
You feel the need to work, even if you don't have to.
This resonates with me. It strongly brings to mind the years I did long haul trucking. Lived in the cab, got home for the weekend and played some videogames, then off again for another week.
I still do long haul occasionally, but having a mostly reliable internet connection everywhere is an absolute game changer.
It's particularly soul crushing when you live like that but the project is a failure and you have nothing to show for it but personal experience.
I guess this is the difference between the US and EU. In Europe, we don't see this as romantic or idealistic, in fact quite the opposite, we see it as dystopian. It's great to have passion, it's also great to work beyond the 9 to 5, but if you're ever in circumstances where you have to work like this (even if it's self-imposed), something's not quite right.
Neither do we. It just happens, largely depending on circumstances. Tim was working in a fledgling medium. Probably anyone who picked up a career in IT, web design and development during roughly the same time period -- and probably had it fall in their lap as opposed to going looking for it -- can relate to most of what he's saying. They were new fields; they were different; no one knew what they were doing, per se, and just kind of winging it and learning from each other as well as "the hard way" as they went. There were no classes; no degrees; no structured educational programs whatsoever, as there are now. People were coming from established careers, e.g. print (and bringing a lot of habits with them that weren't suitable for the Web, btw), and as many of the "lost" hours were actually spent learning and researching new techniques for doing things, new languages and what have you.
I doubt my employers had any idea that my day never ended when I left their offices. I got home and booted up my computer and just kept learning and working and creating demos (of sorts) to show the project manager for his approval, etc.
I loved what I was doing and was a little devastated to have so much of what I was doing taken away from me as areas of expertise began to emerge and split off into specializations of one kind or another. That was actually a way more difficult time for me than the "lost" years, which I don't consider at all lost myself. In fact, they were the best years of my life.
@@lrinfiI don’t know. There is a huge hustle/grind culture in the U.S. Some people cite Benjamin Franklin’s autobiography as being the first instance of a self made man mythology. It definitely had a lasting effect on the U.S
@@dogecoin1692 The ubiquitous hustle/grind culture of which you speak is different than the time period of fledgling fields to which I refer, which was predominated by startups and small businesses which may have had to wrestle with entities far larger and more powerful, e.g. publishers, but were generally independently owned and operated.
Such fledgling fields were a joy to work in at the time, but not so much for a great many people now due to the industrialization of them over the past few decades. Now, they're part and parcel of the Megamachine, which is why we're seeing "crunch" issues and the like rearing their heads in the video game industry. It's inherited such issues from the industries that came before it and is no longer as creative a field as it once was. Once a field becomes industrialized, production takes precedence over creation very nearly to the exclusion of it.
It’s not lost one bit! Your legacy will persevere. You’ve changed the world for better or worse. Most people’s lifetimes combined wouldn’t dream to achieve such a feat while it took you only a decade.
Funny, because I feel like my whole life I was trying to chase something to grind, since guitar was my first passion and it taught be how driven life can be if you find that one thing. For a long time since then, I've been trying to find it and obviously societal milestones are expected to be fulfilled, so I just did them because that was what was expected of me. So I went to parties, got a retail job, killed whole days with friends going from place to place, vacations, fancy restaurants, college, clubs, extracurriculars, an internship, couple girls were interested in me, grinded academics etc. The only thing I felt was worth it was learning that I don't value those things as much as other people - there are other things, but that was the main thing.
I envy people like you who found their grind, at my age that obstacle is already past them and they're fulfilling much further milestones by now while I haven't even gotten anything off the ground.
This sums up my experience at Illinois Institute of Art when it comes to not recommending it but not regretting attending. I still look at my severely outdated student work and yet it still fascinates me that I created it. Working with programs such as Maya, Photoshop, and After Effects to create images and edit them was a whole new world that opened for me. Noone can take the history you created Tim regardless of the sacrifice.
That Britney Spears one killed me. I have nothing more to say, I'm dead. ...
Of all videos you've made Tim, this one hits hard
I won't get into details why but let me just say... I'm a concept artist working in game dev for the past 10 years... I haven't been on ANY holidays/vacations etc. in all those years...
Anyway - Thx for all the content
Please take the time for yourself. For every story of someone who made Fallout in their lost decade there are dozens of people who - instead of seeing a huge payout from it - just get permanent harm to their relationships and their personal health.
I promise you, the work will still be there if you also take time for yourself. There has to be a balance. Take it from me, a 40 year old who ruined myself with a similar "lost decade" in my 20's. I didn't learn the harm I did until I was in my 30's, when it was too late to undo. Don't end up in the same place, claim your time back.
Man that decade has probably the most influential entertainment of my entire life. Big thanks for the contribution!
You should still consider yourself lucky to have done all that work on something you were passionate about. During a period of my life I had to work 12hs a day weekends included, we only got 5 days a month off and we had to take them all together, so that meant it could be an entire month without a single day off, and on top of that rotating schedules, and it was doing something I hated. So if you ask me what I'd prefer, yeah, I'd totally prefer to have no life doing something I'm passionate about rather than the same but with something I hate. So yeah, even your lost decade makes me envious XD
So glad you got your life back in the end Tim.
First time I relate so much to somebody in this kind of topic. I am 31, started working at 24 in a lab. Since then, I feel I've dedicated my life to work and has stopped doing other things. I love my job, but people say I need to go out more and I think they are right. 😅 thanks for this video, it really made me think about my current work-life balance.. situation! 😊
That final expression is priceless!!
As a Canadian, I am incredibly honoured to hear that you all watched a lot of ReBoot.
As a 20 year old this is incredibly valuable wisdom, thank you for sharing it.
It might be difficult to judge if it was all worth it, but because of your commitment we got to play your awesome games, that can easily be called masterpieces. Are they perfect? No. But they made an enourmous impact on the industry. You guys were shaping history, I am extremely grateful for what you have done.
OMG Chips challenge! Thank you so much for bringing that up you just unlocked a buried memory. Time to play that game again.
This channel is amazing, cant stop watching
There are some virtues to living like a monk.
We thank you for your sacrifice!
I love seeing Tims shirts every video
"Hit me with a genie bottle"
"Baby One More Time" was released on October 23, 1998. (Bspears)
"Genie in a bottle" the song was released on 22 June 1999
I love when you put two things together. My favorite is "We will burn that bridge when we get to it"
Where I live it's in our constitution as one of the guidelines that work hours should leave the worker enough time for his self improvement, his family, his society and politics. This video specifically shows how important that is.
OMG mate, I've been watching Community a lot lately and I just paused my binge to watch this video and have you reference Community. Amazing.
I get it completely. Im currently in my lost decades. In my late 20s I got a job as a steel worker. 16 hour days 6 days a week for 8 years until the day the plant closed its doors. I got a job at a convience store imediately afterwards where I worked 12-16 hours a day 6-7 days a week for 12 years. I finally left that job as I was extremely miserable there to work with/for my brother at another business where Ive spent the past year again living at my job. Working there Ive met a lot of the people in my subdivision which had no idea who I was or that Ive been living in this house for 22 years. I dont have a tv, never owned a cell phone, and I have no idea what people are talking about half the time. My only outlet all these years has been video games. When I get home from work I have a drink play a game for about 2 hours, get something to eat, and then watch youtube videos that are related the the games Im playing until I cant keep my eyes open anymore. Which usually results in 5 or less hours of sleep a day. Im at a point where Im just completely miserable with work. I no longer enjoy what I do, I cant stand the company I work for, and I cant stand the clientele. However leaving means being out of work for an extended period of time(the economy is very bad where I am) and when I do get something else Id be making roughly half of what I do now, which is already a financial struggle.
That Community reference! Yet another reason you're the best!
I love so much that you make Community references from time to time 😁
Thanks for another cool story.
I also had lost years here and there. They add up to a decade. One time I cancelled a family event because I was busy at work. I pretty much lived in the office. Sometimes I left hours after midnight. I saved a LOT of multi-million $ contracts for the company. A few days later I got a call from my mother. I was in the office, working. She was crying - her mother died. Well, that family event I cancelled due to work could have been the last time I saw my grandma. Who knows, if I'm there maybe she could have lived longer. Her last words were asking where I am. Many years later I still have sleepless nights about it and sometimes cry for having been a shitty grandson to a grandmother who loved me dearly.
Anyways, don't be married to your work. Oh, the company I worked for back then? I found out leadership was stealing a lot of money. I mean, amounts most people would kill for. They realized I might know about their shady shit. They fired me. I was never compensated for my work properly. I was never valued properly. In fact I was treated like a criminal during the exit procedures.
Watching this video as I get home from work, throw clothes in the wash, make food, and then watch tv....
The dream is alive
I can relate to being buried in work for a time and coming out of it feeling like the world has changed. I still find myself getting acquainted with tv shows and movies my friends quote that I have never seen. Thank you for sharing these videos and for all the time you spent creating games. I am glad you are still doing that. Games are the foundation of culture for many guys these days. People like you and the Bioware doctors did/do work that matters more than you know.
You should have added Britney Spears to the game, Just hit it, baby, one more time and get extra damage.
Thank you for sharing this Tim. I can imagine how hard it must have been to literally just live for your work.
Thanks for posting this one. And you don't realize it until after the project is over. It's hard to imagine games getting made in just 40 hours work a week once you understand the productivity of the 'all-in' mentality.
Lost 2, coming up on 3 decades now. And I couldn't be happier.
🎵Hit me with your genie bottle 🎶
its crazy to think how much we lose to fulfill the requirement to make the things we care. As long as you don't regret losing that time I think its worth it
Britney Spears joke almost killed me..gud one Tim
The story was so interesting that I put aside my notebook in which I wrote plans for the day and began to listen carefully.
This is much relatable.
This video is so important. Thanks.
I just came out of the exact same thing. For the last ten years all I've done is code for school/work and play video games. Had a mental breakdown after 10 years of that (triggered by watching Highlander of all things) then ended up getting diagnosed with OCD, getting medicated and now its like my brain has turned on for a second time.
Yea it's hard to really come to terms with lost time. I had to deal with cancer and an "unsuccessful" college experience that cost me nearly a decade of professional progress in my 20s.
But even though I lost time I could've spent on game development, I can't fully say I regret it, since I was able to take more time to think and refine my designs and design philosophy.
If I had made a game back then, it would've probably been shit, so I understand a bit why you might not regret how things went. However life goes, there's always ups and downs to it.
Chip's Challenge mentioned!! The first computer game I remember playing
Okay, I'm absolutely dying at "hit me with your genie bottle"
What an amazing story, thanks for sharing! It makes me think of my own experience, I'm not in the gaming industry but I'm coming up on a decade working in IT, I've had a few seasons in my life with the same work life balance pace you describe. Now I have a better balance, but I'm starting to feel tired and that it's time to move on, or at least work on a more meaningful project, so I can feel like I'm not wasting another decade.
You are a huge inspiration tim! i grew up playing your games and i learned a good amount of english from your games, i feel bad for what you went through but know that you achieved A LOT from that decade and you have left your mark on the industry. Im really happy to see that you made this channel and i hope you continue making these videos!
I think the question you have to ask is whether your games would have been worse if they had been allowed to take longer, so that the people working on them didn't have to choose between either making a great game or sacrificing their health. If it truly is an either/or situation (and I don't think it necessarily has to be), I choose health. Have games take longer and cost more to make, if that's what it takes to develop them sustainably and ethically.
Agreed, having been someone who had a very similar "lost decade" but ended up with type 2 diabetes and chronic back problems from the lack of care I took for myself during that decade. And many friendships as well as my first marriage that fell apart because I was just plain never there.
If folks make the choice to devote themselves to something they are making in this way, they need to understand that the health risks they are taking may be undetected until it is too late to reverse them. And similarly with their relationships.
For every story of someone who made great art by sacrificing some portion of their life and came out ahead in the end, there are dozens of people who made a similar sacrifice and only ended up with permanent harm from the attempt. And that is the real reason why we need our passion to be contained in an 8 hour a day window whenever possible. Those risks are real and the success stories are few but glamorous compared to the larger pool of people who end up hurt by it.
Not that I am upset with Tim for his perspective. I am glad it worked out for him in the long run! But I don't want young people to walk away with the impression that this sort of thing is what leads to success. It often doesn't, and success doesn't have to come from such a risky road. We can and must find ways to have a balance, to avoid the "all in" lost decade.
You are loved and respected by many people because of your "lost decade".😉 Btw, I will turn 40 in a few months and I lost two decades of my life.. not because of work, but other things. Going forward I'm determined not to lose a single day.
This actually resonates a lot with the experience of the 'rona happenings sweeping the world during your college years.
Kinda reminds us how it's just generally important to remember that commonalities can be shared between such discretely specific circumstances.
Community is a great show!
I can somewhat relate, if only from the media aspect. I haven't watched tv for over three decades now, so doing the TV Guide crossword puzzles is no longer a thing, nor do I get many memes involving movies from the early-90s 'til now. But, I am a retiree so I have lots of time to see enough memes to get the gist of it all. I did watch the first two seasons of Stranger Things. Someday I might go watch the rest.
in all fairness, Spears was in fact the newest weapon in the game at that time
Thanks for the insights, and the video Tim.
Just wanted to personally mention that I too relate. I don't want to go into any details, but my retrospect is that I needed that to be where I am today. I wouldn't be as successful, nor as happy. One thing always leads to another. The butterfly effect.
However, while I'm reaping the benefits today, in a sense I never really stopped. Just started to prioritize other things as highly. Things like family, friends, hobbies etc. At least that's how I choose to see it.
I don't know if this made any sense, but can't be more specific without mentioning details.
Feeling a bit like this stuck working from home since the pandemic.
wild story!
but, thank you for your work!
> i dont regret it
> i also refer to it as my lost decade
the crunch talk hits home
Britney Spears definitely needs to be a weapon in a game!
Good morning Tim, 안녕 from South Korea!😉The Land of Morning Calm
Thank you for these insightful videos and your hard work and dedication to your craft, all the above is greatly appreciated by many many folk (myself included if that’s not clear)
it wasnt quite a full decade, but due to mental illness i went through a time in my life just like this.
Chips Challenge!!! I thought I dreamed that up! I miss that game!
Wow you are amazing Tim. I feel a little sad to learn that one of my favorite RPGs of all time (Arcanum) was made under such intense work conditions for you (this seems beyond regular crunch).
I'm glad you don't regret this lost decade. Did you get a chance to play Morrowind and/or Neverwinter nights at the time? If so what did you think of them?
I also wonder this about those two specific games
Between your lost decade and recent video where you say sometimes you gotta sacrifice your life for work (but never mention sacrificing work for life), I have to ask a question. What did you retire/semi-retire to? It's something many approaching retirement or recently retired deal with. So many make work the focus of their life, they retire from something (work) but don't retire to something. Their entire adult life has been defined by their work and when asked who they are, they answer by what they do for work. Then when they retire, they are lost. Work was who and what they were, and they find retirement difficult because they have no identity outside of their job. I'd rather be remembered as a good man/person/friend that what I produced at work.
I mean, there are always "lost decades" in a person's life. I consider my lost decade from 28 to not 38. I conentrated to finish my degree and started as an programmer. I have done things according to plan, but haven't achieved a lot just experienced this massive social isolation. Of course I tried to actively change it, but it wouldn't work out. My social circle would have "wise lines" how to change things, but were vanishing in the background themselves. So, you can not control life. Your lost decade though is one of conscious action and "agency" (if I may use your game design terms Tim :-) ) and from that also came legendary titles. You now know better how to organize your life. But for some people life has a "hidden decade" around which is not by chosen workoholism and even if wouldn't yield anything worthwhile :-) But you did say that worklife balance and workoholism is a fine balance with no clear answer to whether it's worth it.
It was not lost, it was recharging.
I can relate since I spent all my 20s trying to recover from early trauma. And now I'm more motivated than ever to pursue my passion! No regrets!
Thank you for sharing your story!
I’m going to ask on a few of your videos. Hopefully you will see this if it becomes annoying please let me know.
I would love to hear you speak on Todd, Howard, as well as other game developers like Michael Kirkbride You have already made it clear you don’t review things. But if you could just talk about how they work compared to you. Or ideas they have that you really love as a developer. I would be so happy!
It would be especially great if you could get Todd or someone like that on a video call you’ve had your other friends here and they are just swell. I love them and their work. I can’t tell you how thankful I am for you and all the people you worked with.
I can totally relate, though I usually do it for months to a couple years at a time. Sometimes though I even stayed at work for months sleeping on the floor using a sleeping bag (they had a bathroom with a shower). A lot of top performe4s spend at least some time working insane amounts.
I did that schedule for 2 months and it wrecked me
10 years 😣
I relate to this too much.
These kinds of stories frighten me, but I'm glad you shared it, and I have to admit I feel a similar workaholic urge. I wonder whether you would regret it had your creations not been successful/well-received? I'm just thinking about all the game devs and other creators who spent years toiling away, and when they finally released their work to the public it just did not land. Would love to hear your perspective on this.
It’s a good way to land yourself in an existential crisis, even if you do succeed.
Nothing has changed, he confused Brittney Spears and Christina Aguilera and still didn't know.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone else talk about playing chip's challenge. That game was my childhood.
I really liked hearing about you meeting the Architect and having fun traveling together. Are you guys still together?
"Hit me with your genie bottle" classic tune
I spent more of my time in Everquest casting "Spirit of Wolf" on passerby's for donations than anything.
THE COMMUNITY REFERENCE I LOVE THAT
God I relate to this.
I'm 33. If it wasn't for my wife, I'd just work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. She drags my arse out of my cave a few times a month so I don't become a complete hermit lol. Never had a holiday since university, just been working nonstop.
I think for some of us, we're just naturally obsessive about the things we care about. It's in our NATURE to feel comfortable being all-consumed. It feels authentic. Like I said, I'm happy I have my wife to save my from my own nature.
Oh baby baby,how was I supposed to know... something wasn't riiiiight
You might have "lost" a decade in terms of pop culture consumption but on the other hand you created lots of things that people enjoyed.
Yeah, you've definitely earned yourself a retirement after a career like this. Much sacrifice was made, but you churned out some great classic games that brightened the world just a bit for a lot of people. There's good in that.