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@Great White my thoughts exactly. Leave it to those in control to reverse what makes sense so we still stay under their thumb buying some kind of fuel. Also why would we want to drive around with so much explosive fuel when we could use water and produce much smaller amounts of hydrogen as needed by the motor.
Yes it is not a new thing , There was a 20 or 15 year old BMW ,cant remember the Model exactly that was powered by hydrogen but it failed due to the engine was not reliable, also at le mans 2020 there was a prototype hydrogen powered super car that was done by Toyota Gazoo racing team
@Jesse Pinkman I always wondered about that in case of fire. Like if it is a battery fire, does that like disable all functions in car? like doors being electric etc. I just fear being trapped in a Y series lol
@@payperboii8477 I didn't even think about that...I guess the buyers will have to find out when the battery catches on fire 😆. The gov keeps mentioning potential emp strikes(them)or hackers(them) that could shut down the power grids. I almost guarantee it'll happen Especially with climate lockdowns will be happening here soon.
This was an explanation that the average person can understand. Well done, Scotty. I am not a young man. Will I see this in widespread use in my lifetime? I expect not.
Didnt finish video yet. But yeah the cost per gallon might be more, but if hydrogen powered cars can get 2x-4xs more life out of a full tank than a gas powered car can, sign me up. What if you only need 2 gallons to get you lets say like 200-400 miles.
Maybe. When i was in auto school back in 2007 i remember learning about them even though there was only 1 or 2 cars with this tech. fuel cell technology predates gas powered cars. In my opinion we will be seeing widespread use of fuel cells in cars in the next 10 years. Uk is looking to stop the sale of petroleum cars by 2030. With The democratic party in power in the usa we will find a strong push in the same direction, aka the green new deal. I myself have invested in stocks of fuel cell, battery, electric vehicles, and green power companies.
As usual, Scotty, your presentations are most interesting, informative and never boring. I'm glad those of us who are motorists, are fortunate to have you as our virtual mechanic.
For many years I have been convinced that the hydrogen fuel cell car has it all over the electric car. Why? Because hydrogen is the single most abundant element in the universe. The reason so many dirigibles were filled with hydrogen rather than helium was because hydrogen is so much easier to produce, and so much less expensive. I believe that the only thing standing in the way of hydrogen-powered vehicles is the oil industry.
The problem is that hydrogen has to be obtained from water electrolysis which is pointless as you may as well just use the electricity in a battery. Hydrogen is just too dangerous to use and transport, it will never become mainstream.
@@Slash1066 Not to mention that Tesla is able to put superchargers up everywhere because the electricity grid is everywhere. They also don't require refueling. Ever. Imagine having to keep track of a fleet of hydrogen tanker trunks in order to supply all of your fueling stations. Plus you can charge your EV anywhere. I charge mine in my driveway. At home. Yes, the battery tech needs improvement, but with enough research it will get better.
@@valkhorn Agree completely, hydrogen is just another liquid fuel and all the same problems of storage and transportation apply. Electricity is so much easier to deal with.
@@valkhorn I think the electric car works just fine for most people on a day to day basis. I am a contractor by trade and might empty a battery before I get home some days. A hydrogen cell would be clean and give you some more range.
Hydrogen efficiency is les more than electricity in car (45% for Hydrogen compare to about 95% for electric car, by memory). So Tesla and other electric car company don't have to worry!!😀 Simple like that! Be careful of desinformation!
Hydrogen cars has this same problem than ICE cars. You can't refill the tank at home. With BEV I could charge the battery over night and in the morning I could have full battery. I could do my daily driving without need to worry about refilling. And then again charge the battery at home during the night. I'd say it's very convenient to not need to worry about filling the tank, ever.
Scott thank you for this video, I learned a lot about H fuel cars . Your presentation was excellent and I appreciated that you were not shouting at us. More of this please.
This has been a thing for decades. Went to Epcot Center in early 2000s. There was a GM pavilion there and they had a display of hydrogen cars. It was already old. Had a construction engineering firm working on a project for me around 2005. They were working on a hydrogen fueling station concept (nothing to with my project, but many of the engineers we also working on that). It is a nightmare. And forget producing enough hydrogen to fuel our vehicles. We have 300M cars in the US today. Think about that.
I totally agree Scotty, thing is they've been talking hydrogen for years and they claimed back then it was so sensitive and the vehicles could blow up easy was the excuse not to do it. I'm 63 and doubt I will own one but love the concept better than electric because on a cold rainy day with a fan, wipers, lights, radio, heater, etc. would use up a battery pretty quick.
Would've been nice to have a Plugin hydrogen hybrid, basically a fuelcell car with a large enough battery to do short commutes with. Having the car charge overnight is very convienient since you would never have to stop at any fuel station for the normal commute.
You really upped the price because of duplicate technology. Now, you need the battery bank and fuel cell. I see your point but you need to think about space, weight and cost.
Instead of using a battery, capture the dihydrogen monoxide exhaust and let the owner plug the car in to separate it back into hydrogen and oxygen to refill the tank. There will be some losses this way so you will still need to refuel every once in a while, but it does let you stretch a single tank of hydrogen, or even refuel using purified, distilled water.
@@theragingplatypus4743 No, basically every hydrogen powered fuel cell car is a hybrid already. To make it a plug in, it just takes the plugs, some electronics and a bigger battery.
glad to see a real hydrogen tech video showcasing the actual reality of the tech instead of giving a negative opinion of its future and shutting it down completely as impossible
Producing hydrogen requiere so much electrical energy. Any conversion from any form of energy to another requiere loss of energy. So the best way its using electricity by simple el motor, instead of a complex and dangerous equipment for stocking hydrogen
This isn't even close to the 'actual reality of the tech', it's just hydrogen pitched in almost the most positive way possible, ignoring any of the real negatives. If Hydrogen was better than BEVs, they would be winning.
Stanley Allen Meyer died suspiciously after he developed patents to power a dune buggy with water. His last words were supposedly “they poisoned me.” They have been working on a water powered engine since the 1800’s. A good exploration is the book; “Water Car” by James Robert.
I would love to buy one of these, but the fact that it costs twice as much to go down the road as my 2009 Charger R/T...and the fact that they cost $10-15k more is just not feasible. It's a toy for the rich right now.
@@The_Gallowglass "It's a toy for the rich right now." This was true also for the first Teslas but now they are becoming quite common. My neighbor who lives in an inexpensive tiny house has one in the driveway.
@@robertl.fallin7062 I guess I got lucky mine runs like a top. It burns/leaks oil but not bad. That's the only problem I've had with it. I do want something newer though.
One thing all CNG cars failed to do. :. Instead of installing a pressure regulator right on the tank they runned high pressure 1000+ psi lines throughout the car and installed a pressure regulator next to the engine. That's why during accidents those lines break and things blow up. Hopefully Toyota installed the step down pressure regulator right on the tank and runned a low pressure line from the regulator to the fuel cell. . 😊
The people who believe that EV's including the batteries are not efficient/cost effective to manufacture and operate are simply idiots. Period. You can't fix S T U P I D......
There’s a huge problem with electric cars and meds so I’m out of time does it takes to charge the battery Have to get it to under 5 minutes otherwise..... Electric vehicles don’t have a long future
@Car Freaknatic there are plenty of people that drive more than 200-300 miles per day. You may not know them but it doesn't mean they don't exist. The Holiday charging debacle in California is proof that more needs to be done to expand EV charging availability. It's a great start but it is nowhere near ready to overtake the ICE. There are problems now with the limited number of EVs on the road now. Compare it to the total number of ICE vehicles on the road. The tide will turn but so will the amount of pollution that EVs will cause. Every technology has its downside even if they have not been realized yet.
I think the main reasons why it wasn't available was because what would happen to Saudi Arabia and Syria and Libya etc. Also there is the ability to tax oil. Now saving the planet has caught on and is fashionable.
I work in the field. This was a nice video. A couple of things that might interest your and others: 1. The US DOE has just launched a program called the Hydrogen Shot that has the goal of making "green" hydrogen at $1/kg by the end of the decade. "Green" means made without fossil fuels and usually means electrolysis (splitting water with electricity). 2. Total emissions from a hydrogen vehicle using hydrogen from natural gas are less than those for gasoline because the hydrogen fuel cell and electric power train are so efficient. It's not what we want, but it is a place to start and as the hydrogen gets cleaner, the car gets better while if you buy a gasoline ICE vehicle, you are committed to 10 or more years of emissions. 3. It takes a lot of energy to transport and dispense hydrogen. That's not necessarily a problem because we have huge amounts of renewable resources (sun and wind). It is purely a matter of cost. 4. In the US, the focus may be shifting to hydrogen for heavy and medium duty trucks. They have the volume to store the hydrogen more easily and the economics of a truck run is totally different from the economics of a light duty vehicle. If I recall correctly, if you could make hydrogen at $5/kg, you'd be able to beat diesel for long haul trucking. We think we're close to that now. 5. It's hard to make electric vehicles go further than we see right now. Let me say that differently....there is a cost for having battery capacity or hydrogen capacity on the vehicle. For low capacity, like typical commuting, it is cheaper to provision with batteries. As the energy capacity goes up, it becomes cheaper to provision with hydrogen storage and fuel cell. This is the other reason why we're looking at heavy duty trucks, delivery trucks, and so forth. Decarbonizing them with batteries doesn't seem to make economic sense. Some things seem to _need_ hydrogen to decarbonize. For all of these technologies, there are huge savings if we could build at scale. We can't build at scale until people want them. They don't want them until we get prices down....which requires them to buy more. This is where government research comes in. We help clarify and reduce risk in the technology so that business and finance feel confident enough to take the needed risks.
BTW: I'm VERY interested in what someone in the industry thinks of our present energy situation and how we will meet the challenge of climate change or be obliterated by it.
@@JohnSmith-pn2vl you better get off the internet or your parents are going to find out you been on the internet commenting on TH-cam again. You know how you get when you don't agree with other comments.
Scotty, Thank you for your review of Hydrogen vehicles and their use and value in the automotive market. I have a Honda Clarity FCV 2020/21. I did a lot of studying and searching for the best FCV value. The Honda clarity is hands down the best value. I drive very conservatively both on the streets and the freeways of Southern California. It may look a little "quirky" but when driving it is a pleasure. This is my 4th electric assist car. It is indeed an experimental car because of all the "perks" they give you. So, if you do have any problems remember the $15K in free Hydrogen, the California $4,500 rebate and the low downpayment and lease payment. I am a business man and have to drive part of the time to keep my business going. I am a life insurance agent with New York Life for the past 40 years. Based on the tax credits for mileage, the IRS is practically paying me to drive the car. I leased the FCV in late October 2020 and only have 3840 miles on the car. While the EV and FCV market only constitutes a very small proportion of the running ICE cars in California, it is the future. I agree that the cars will get cheaper in the future and the infrastructure will grow and bring the price of fuel down. In fact Shell Hydrogen station in Torrance Ca. sells H2 between 10AM and 2PM for $12.99. And now has extended the time for the reduced price from 8PM to 6AM every weekday. So, based on my wallet, the Honda FCV is the best value over the competition.
The Honda FCX Clarity Hydrogen Fuell Cell Car first came out in 2005 with Jamie Lee Curtis as the first celebrity to lease the vehicle. You could only lease it and it was only in California. Problem was it was poorly market and by time the patent was up, Toyota released the Mirai for both lease and buy. Honda screwed up on this big time as it was a great car too. They later came out the hybrid and electric car to test the market.
There are 2 ways to get hydrogen: - hydrocarbons (usually methane) which creates lots of pollution (no matter where the methane comes from, ground or cow manure) - water through electrolysis which is very inefficient - you're better off putting the electricity directly into the battery, even taking into consideration the losses from the battery weight and if we consider the electricity to come from renewables. The only place where the hydrogen is better is at refuel time and at the range per fill-up. I highly support hydrogen for medium and short range freight transport with clean hydrogen generation at the ends of the run... for small cars BEVs are better and if the energy density may not seem satisfactory, there are promising technologies that can reduce the "recharge/refuel" time - flow cell batteries, supercapacitors and others I can name. For our sake, I wish hydrogen not be the fuel of the future.
In a future with an overabundance of clean energy, I could see the high energy density being useful for clean air travel and freight. For consumer vehicles, I don't see any way that they will ever be better than batteries just due to the inefficiency of electrolysis, unless of course the hydrogen is generated by refining hydrocarbons as it currently is, in which case literally what's the point.
I don’t know the details, but it’s entirely possible that even if generating hydrogen from hydrocarbons creates pollution, that it still creates less pollution than ICEs. Thermal losses in ICEs are massive, and at the very least by processing the hydrocarbons en masse instead of on the go, it’s likely you can increase the energy yields
@@alienturtle1946 it's similar (ICEs have a slight edge). The only way hydrogen is cleaner than gasoline or diesel is if it's made by electrolysis and even that depends on the way electricity is generated. There are multiple studies, but this is AFAIK their conclusion so far... just keep in mind hydrogen for mobility is not as widely used so there is nothing definite yet. I will try to find some studies I read and link them here... don't have them on hand now 🙂 Also, I would like not to choose the lesser evil if I can choose an even lesser one that's already more widely available (BEVs).
Whatever full electric EV are better for long term. There is a lot to improve in full EV technology, long-term i all bet all may money on Full EV. In 2040 we all may get are energy of Nuclear Fusion , long term electricity will become shipper and olso Full EV are less pollution long term, because in a Full EV you can charge the battery anywhere and olso you can change the old battery and practically get a better new battery with more range.
Not true at all. Most people do not live in a single dwelling house. Many people live in apartments or condos or park on streets that are not set up for convenient charging.
@@gkprivate433 while not perfect, the electric infrastructure is far, far, far more established than hydrogen. Street lights or other sidewalk adjacent charging stations are easier to install than hundreds of thousands of hydrogen filling stations.
And that's the issue. Based on what I've seen, it's six times the cost to set up a hydrogen station v regular petrol. And that's the rub. Not many operators are going to set one up when there are so few hydrogen cars.
@@Bruh-jt3xq difference is electricity is already ubiquitous. Not hard to wire charging stations to the local electric grid. Hydrogen needs unique storage and delivery systems, totally different
Hey Scotty I just learned about compressed hydrogen disk technology that much lighter and easier to get soon than waiting to charge batteries. Each disk can be recycled 150 times at a recycle plant. What do you think?
Plasma Technoligies is the company , it's still proivate but rumblings are it's going to be bought out & likely it's tech put in the proverbial lock box, just too good & the big money can't make money on it.
Ammonia is the better Hydrogen fuel source. Ammonia Fuel Cells are as powerful as Hydrogen Fuel cell with the added benefit that Ammonia is easier to handle because you don't need to highly compress it like Hydrogen.
@@kongstrong1938 They have some new tech that is suppose to take water and air to make ammonia. Some electricity is required, but if they can mass produce it, it would solve a lot of problems.
Unfortunately the production of hydrogen is still much less efficient than charging and discharging batteries. Maybe that will improve in the future. Oh and fuel cell vehicles will never be as cheap to produce as battery EV’s.
@@Axesent77 In Fact, Japan has already moved all their Public Transit to Hydro and are banking on Hydro to be their main source of energy, having the most Hydrogen Storage of any country on Earth
I started working with Toyota in 1986 and they had hydrogen prototypes running around then, I’m surprised it’s taken then this long to finally appear (think Honda had one called the clarity too) JCB (like a British Caterpillar plant /Agriculture and Construction vehicle manufacturer) have been working on their own hydrogen engine because they also realised that for commercial uses plug in isn’t practical. It also makes sense to have to stop say 200 miles to plug in a car is just silly
I remember those. I have one. In my back 40! In Oregon. I’m a Toyota collector. They tried Diesel too. Which the USA Government shut that down . Ford had them to ‘84-87. I have the Prototype diesel ranger and fiesta.
Hydrogen infrastructure (manufacturing and distribution) today is not efficient as per some studies, there is loss of efficiency to the tune of 50%, this makes hydrogen extremely expensive at the moment. Manufacturing and storage both aspects need a revolutionary breakthrough in next few years or consider hydrogen fuel dead.
Thanks Scotty! I remember hearing about Hydrogen as a fuel source back in the 70's. I thought it would power an internal combustion engine. I see it is being used a bit differently now. Stay safe Scotty, Merry Christmas.
Saw a 35 second video of the rear of a hydrogen corolla. It sounded really good when it drove off. I believe it was manual too! The future of cars can be more fun than I anticipated.
I don't know about a manual tranny for these (although I didn't watch the video that you are talking about). From this video it looks like the car uses electrons from hydrogen gas to get it's energy, therefore I would presume that a hydrogen car would also use the same type of engine that a Tesla uses which can produce so many RPM's that there is no need to shift between different Drive gears. I definitely wish that in the future we can preserve the things that make driving fun like gasoline engines and shifting tho
The Honda FCX Clarity Hydrogen Fuell Cell Car first came out in 2005 with Jamie Lee Curtis as the first celebrity to lease the vehicle. You could only lease it and it was only in California. Problem was it was poorly market and by time the patent was up, Toyota released the Mirai for both lease and buy. Honda screwed up on this big time as it was a great car too. They later came out the hybrid and electric car to test the market.
-Neither does it have enough cobalt for all the li-ion batteries.- So we better start mastering some carbon nano tube / graphite technology soon. EDIT: cobalt already being replaced. Still can't wait for a carbon future.
.....there is an asteroid rich in noble metals and yes there's been talk of mining it one day. It can be looked up on the toob . I might look it up myself . A talk about the technical difficulties for hydrogen storage is what I was hoping to see.
I like hydrogen over battery power. Real world math here. Pass zero emission electricity through water and put hydrogen in storage tank. Drive car to fuel station and fill up tank in car with hydrogen. When driving hydrogen passes through fuel cell producing electricity for motor without greenhouse gases. They even work in cold weather because Montreal (which gets winter) runs hydrogen fuel cell buses and they work just fine on the coldest days.
They already have boats (well a demonstrator proving it) that can run on hydrogen. They extract hydrogen from the water using wind and solar power then powers the vessel itself forward. They also added sails which doubles as a propellant (obviously not useful on a car). So there are ways to use non-fossil fuel production to make hydrogen even without using a vast source such as poop, but just wind and solar (and nuclear, for that matter).
@@brianospina4387 If viable alternatives existed, I would fully support them. Unfortunately, it seems like every proposed alternative to fossil fuels is much like the cure being worse than the disease. Subsidizing the implementation and operation of wind/solar is worse than doing nothing, for example. Same too with carbon taxes which only induce people to make poorer economic choices, a process that can only lead to more waste.
Hydrogen technology is amazing. We could theoretically make massive hydrogen batteries to store renewable energy instead of expensive and wasteful lithium ion batteries, and turn them on in the day to provide power to cities.
@@jhindson88 Lion batteries are 80-90% efficient. Hydrogen fuel cells, 83%. Once the electricity leaves the battery or cell the efficiency is the same as they both go to the same electric motors.
@@protonneutron9046 squeky dint mean the fuel cell tech. He was comparing the hydrogen gas as a storage vs the lithium battery storage for renewable power generation.
@@marcohangman5312 Still wrong. It takes more electricity to PRODUCE the hydrogen than is produced by the solar cells. Another reason why solar isn't viable unless you are FAR off the base load grid
Thing is hydrogen will be produced by excess energy from wind and solar and also the energy change for the fossil free heavy industry will rely on huge amounts of hydrogen. Heavy long range vehicles and ships for sure will be powered by fuel cells. EU is launching it’s greatest project ever on hydrogen energy and the cost is calculated to go down to less than a third today. Fuel cells are really a thing. All can’t run on battery. Only 10% of the cost of long haul companies are fuel. Battery in Tesla semi is close to 7tons that are then taken from the net load capacity which is fatal for cost.
Just need electricity and water, there is excess electricity and an abundance of water. Your car can charge with compressed hydrogen in 2-3 min. Combined with a BEV is a good suit for heavy trucks like semi's. The weight to power ratio for a semi truck with just batteries plus carrying or pulling a load does not make sense in a BEV.
Problem is the oil industry controls half the world and they will never allow this to become full scale. A guy in the 50s invented a car that ran on water and did 50 mph. He ended up dead soon after. MAKES YOU THINK.
@@markcrawford1982 The good ol' USA is under the right latitude for people to have photovoltaic and battery storage. No need for more coal burning plants.
were do you think the electricity comes from, not always quote clean energy. that quote clean energy is not so clean, nothing is free there is always negative consequences to all fuel sources.
Scott, hydrogen fuel cells have been used for years in forklifts. The BMW plant in Greer , SC uses hydrogen fuel cells in most of its forklifts. The hydrogen fuel cells require lot of maintenance as well as forklifts using them. It was discovered that hydrogen fuel cells do not work well in dirty environments
My only question is how quickly do fuel cells fade in efficiency as compared to the standard lithium-ion battery commonly used in electric vehicles today. (I know Tesla has unveiled a new 4600 series battery patent, which uses silicone and a new tab-less design, but we don't know how they compare yet to the traditional lithium-ion battery.)
That's right. It struck me as unfortunate that this wasn't mentioned in this otherwise very interesting video. As well as the fact that Toyota has just released its first pure BEV, the Lexus 300e, with a 10 year or one million kilometer warranty for the battery. Hydrogen will probably be a viable solution for planes, traines and trucks.
@@dennydeckerful 1000 other reasons NOT to "invest in Nikola" as if that was even possible. You can trade anything but that was a pure reckless naïve *gamble* not an investment.
My understanding is that a hydrogen "gas" tank would take up a LOT of space to get a reasonable range and that pressurized refills can not be done very quickly. That said? I love the technology. It does have a commercial future
The only way to get hydrogen industrially though is to use electricity to split water. of which you inevitably loose some energy. So it’s an extra step. Total net carbon emissions are higher.
I think you guys are forgeting that electricity is every were and hydrogen pipelines are not.... and the fact that fast charging for the daily use is about 5-10min.... and free
Also hydrogen is only faster if someone wasn’t using it within the past 30 minutes, as it takes about 30 minutes for the stations to compress enough hydrogen for the next vehicle.
@@Rio-by1eh except for the fact that producing hydrogen through electrolysis will always be more expensive than just good old fashioned electricity. Sure! Only time may tell, but I’ve got a pretty good idea of what she’s going to say
Crazy how Scotty makes so many videos . He must work really hard. How does he possibly think of ideas to post 2-3 videos everyday ? Pretty crazy when u think about it
as of now hydrogen has no future and won't have a future until they find a clean and efficient way to produce it. right now it costs 3 times the price of gas and is more dangerous than any other types of fuel / electric cars
I have been a fan of hydrogen power for yonks - I am pleased that Governments are now looking seriously at the mass production of Hydrogen so that the technology, which is quite simple, can be further developed.
@@kevinloving3141 lol and the ammonia was produced from Hydrogen and Nitrogen via Bosch Haber process and thus extra energy spend to go that detour route
Recently drove from Cleveland Ohio to Miami Florida. At each fueling stop we made 4 of them (every 300 miles at Pilot stations) not one or any of the adjacent refueling stations were there any charging stations for electric cars.
@@edl617 I believe setting up charging station is easier than petrol station. Once the demand grows, there will more entrepreneur who will rush to provide the service.
@@edl617 It would be even worse for Hydrogen Cars,the logistics,storage,and production of hydrogen already killed it any chance of hydrogen being viable for a car.
@@foxhound4218 yea it’s not just about “setting up a charging station”. That thing needs A LOT of power to charge the average car in that “quick” 30 minutes. Basic match will tell you that the traditional power production does not have the capacity to charge an EV for everyone. Without nuclear power, the grid will never be able to replace every gas car with an EV. The current setup only works because there are few EV’s. Hybrid is the way to go at this point…i enjoy my 52-60mpg and it only cost 20k brand new.
Scotty did not even mention existing technology that is being held back....super conductive motors and wires which increase either range,or, horsepower by up to TEN TIMES current numbers.
Ordered a Tesla Y for my daily driver. Can park it in the garage at the end of the day and be ready to go in the morning. Hanging on to my Silverado for pulling the RV. Hopefully H+ tech becomes more mainstream, that way I can replace my trusty Chevy. Unfortunately GM doesn’t make em like they used to.
its not fuel, its a storage medium, electricity is the fuel because it has electric motors. Electrical engineer here. Hydrogen is NOT the answer. horribly inefficient to create, compress, store and transport, not to mention the safety issues
@@leonsam84 thank you! Finally! Someone else is saying it. Like, don’t these people know that Hydrogen vehicles are just EV’s with extra steps? Extra steps = lower efficiencies, more overhead, and more often than not more labor. AKA, unless if you crack for the stuff, it ain’t going to be cheaper than electricity, and if you do frack for the stuff you’re probably doing more harm than good.
@@leonsam84 but potentually much easier, faster to fuel in a society that values time.... most ppl don't live in houses either, so recharging becomes even more of a hassle
@@zachgrall6543 ice popularity shows America isn't too concerned with overall efficiency. Redundant nuclear could potentially make efficiency less of an issue down the road. Personally I like that I wouldn't have to plug in every night too (and one needs to have a garage for that)
There is a significant shift globally towards Green Hydrogen (search youtube) production. Country(ies) wide adoption will bring the price down. The target by the enthusiast countries is to achieve $2.0 per KG.
The problem with hydrogen is it's very expensive/power hungry to make. That is why efficiency wise hydrogen cars are so low compared to most electric cars.
A station that has to be outside the city limits due to its blast zone when things go wrong! As they tend to do with Hydrogen. It's the single most difficult gas to store next to Fluorine.
@@williamarmstrong7199 I've never heard of petrol or propane exploding, have you? This is the exact argument they had about petrol engines 120 years ago.
Some things I learned reading the comments here: 1) People need to take physics/chemistry classes 2) People prefer conspiracy theories over reality 3) People prefer conspiracy theories over reality because they need to take physics/chemistry classes
Except he has it all wrong as usual sorry. Hydrogen and cars will never happen. Ships and trains yes no problem but small cars? No overly expensive (uses a LOT of Platinum) need constant frequent servicing (filters are extremely sensitive & expensive) and can only be refuelled outside a city limit.
Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars are the future of the automotive industry!! It would be the most sensible replacement for electric battery driven vehicles. Current gas stations could use their current facilities. One storage tank could contain hydrogen instead of gasoline making the switch over to hydrogen cells the cheapest since we would already have the infrastructure in place!!!
Why not? The professor in "Back to the Future" ended up putting a Black & Decker Fusion processor on his DeLorean, and it burned beer cans & banana peels, right?
I worked for Delphi on their solid oxide fuel cell research program from 2000 to 2012. Believe me, there's no H2 device that's going to change anything. Ours was cool because it ran so hot, 850°C, that we created H2 onboard by cracking any fossil fuel. The reformer would partially oxidize the fuel stream and the output contained a bunch of crap, but it contained free H2. The pox reformate it was called, gets pumped to the anode side of the fuel cells and atmospheric air was on the cathode side. The H2 is very unstable and needy, like my girlfriends, and attracts oxygen ions through the nickel membrane where they're collected and directed out to do whatever work you need them to do. It was a 5KW auxiliary power supply that worked best running natural gas but could run gasoline or diesel. Running diesel was the worst because it's so dirty. So all you're doing on converting fossil fuel to electricity. It was more efficient than a generator because it had no moving parts. However..they cost about a million bucks due to all the high nickel alloys needed to work at those temps. I also worked closely with the guys at GM on their PEM fuel cell, proton exchange membrane. Theirs was meant to replace the internal combustion engines so it was much higher voltage. The fuel needed to run this device is lab grade H2, super expensive and SUPER DANGEROUS STUFF!! Gasoline is flammable, H2 is EXPLOSIVE. Huge difference there. At Delphi we had a huge Praxair H2 tank feeding our labs..and a very close relationship with the fire house due to hydrogen being plumbed into a building. The cost of the SOFC device and the cost of the fuel (H2) for the PEM device killed their viability. Both needed a step function (new invention) in their development curve to meet cost requirements. I believe both projects have cell scrapped. What we need is anti gravity! Whatever happened to the dream of anti gravity cars like the jetsons??
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@Great White my thoughts exactly. Leave it to those in control to reverse what makes sense so we still stay under their thumb buying some kind of fuel. Also why would we want to drive around with so much explosive fuel when we could use water and produce much smaller amounts of hydrogen as needed by the motor.
@Great White The numbers don't work with onboard electrolysis. It's really not a conspiracy it's well understood physics.
Scotty Kilmer another good one Scotty.
Good info never knew that rolling pos existed.
you missed a detail, hydrogen can be produced using renewable energy sources
I'm 60 and they were talking about hydrogen cars back when I was in grade school!
Yes it is not a new thing , There was a 20 or 15 year old BMW ,cant remember the Model exactly that was powered by hydrogen but it failed due to the engine was not reliable,
also at le mans 2020
there was a prototype hydrogen powered super car that was done by Toyota Gazoo racing team
i wonder how many programs and patents got snuffed by the gas industry.
@@catlikemeteor why would the "gas industry " snuff products? They are the ones that create and transport gasses, like hydrogen.
I remember a reading magazine about it 1993 and showing something similar to this car.
Jack Nicholson was *advertising* hydrogen powered ICE cars in the 60's
I was glad that Scottie discussed how safe hydrogen would be in the case of an accident or storage tank puncture.
I am too, but I don't believe it. Call me skeptical, but I'll believe it after a few millions H2 cars are on the road with no explosions.
Its that rare you would be amazed
Look at LPG gas tanks they said all the same things about them
@Jesse Pinkman batteries that use clays instead of lithium are nearly hear
Lithium Ion is just a stepping stone
@Jesse Pinkman I always wondered about that in case of fire. Like if it is a battery fire, does that like disable all functions in car? like doors being electric etc. I just fear being trapped in a Y series lol
@@payperboii8477 I didn't even think about that...I guess the buyers will have to find out when the battery catches on fire 😆. The gov keeps mentioning potential emp strikes(them)or hackers(them) that could shut down the power grids. I almost guarantee it'll happen Especially with climate lockdowns will be happening here soon.
Is anybody else imagining Scotty's hands gesticulating wildly during this video?
Trademark...
One of the things we love about him. 😊
Not so much; I'm guessing his hand movement probably corresponds with the intensity of his voice.
By having a large moving pattern it grabs the attention. He wants you to keep watching. Parlor trick as old as time.
Probably because even his voice was calmer. And no laughing horses appearing in the corner!
Car manufacturers were working on fuel cell technology decades ago and it looked as if it wasn't going to make it. Good on Toyota for figuring it out.
Rev up your electrons! 😎
😂😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Please let this be his new slogan in 2035
@Buster Scruggs I think that's the problem a lot of people see hydrogen fuel cells with is the image of the Hindenburg engulfing in flames
@Buster Scruggs didn't you watch the video? They don't explode..
More like warm up your fuel cells
This was an explanation that the average person can understand. Well done, Scotty. I am not a young man. Will I see this in widespread use in my lifetime? I expect not.
I hope you live to see many more beautiful years!
Hydrogen costs $16.50/gal equivalent gasoline (1kg = 1 gal) when gas is $2/gal. If Hydrogen is the future, I'm glad I won't see it widespread.
Glad you understood it. Not me.
Didnt finish video yet. But yeah the cost per gallon might be more, but if hydrogen powered cars can get 2x-4xs more life out of a full tank than a gas powered car can, sign me up. What if you only need 2 gallons to get you lets say like 200-400 miles.
Maybe. When i was in auto school back in 2007 i remember learning about them even though there was only 1 or 2 cars with this tech. fuel cell technology predates gas powered cars. In my opinion we will be seeing widespread use of fuel cells in cars in the next 10 years. Uk is looking to stop the sale of petroleum cars by 2030. With The democratic party in power in the usa we will find a strong push in the same direction, aka the green new deal. I myself have invested in stocks of fuel cell, battery, electric vehicles, and green power companies.
As usual, Scotty, your presentations are most interesting, informative and never boring. I'm glad those of us who are motorists, are fortunate to have you as our virtual mechanic.
Are you being sarcastic?
For many years I have been convinced that the hydrogen fuel cell car has it all over the electric car. Why? Because hydrogen is the single most abundant element in the universe. The reason so many dirigibles were filled with hydrogen rather than helium was because hydrogen is so much easier to produce, and so much less expensive. I believe that the only thing standing in the way of hydrogen-powered vehicles is the oil industry.
The problem is that hydrogen has to be obtained from water electrolysis which is pointless as you may as well just use the electricity in a battery. Hydrogen is just too dangerous to use and transport, it will never become mainstream.
@@Slash1066 Not to mention that Tesla is able to put superchargers up everywhere because the electricity grid is everywhere. They also don't require refueling. Ever. Imagine having to keep track of a fleet of hydrogen tanker trunks in order to supply all of your fueling stations. Plus you can charge your EV anywhere. I charge mine in my driveway. At home. Yes, the battery tech needs improvement, but with enough research it will get better.
@@valkhorn Agree completely, hydrogen is just another liquid fuel and all the same problems of storage and transportation apply. Electricity is so much easier to deal with.
@@valkhorn I think the electric car works just fine for most people on a day to day basis. I am a contractor by trade and might empty a battery before I get home some days. A hydrogen cell would be clean and give you some more range.
Hydrogen is extracted from natural gas . Separating it from water takes energy not releases it.
sorry, I thought this was supposed to show me why hydrogen vehicles are going to replace tesla.. is there a part 2 or something?
Haha
@@ElmerGLue Musk has backed the wrong horse with batteries. Ahead at the first bend but left for dead at the finish line. Toyota will see to that.
Hydrogen efficiency is les more than electricity in car (45% for Hydrogen compare to about 95% for electric car, by memory). So Tesla and other electric car company don't have to worry!!😀
Simple like that!
Be careful of desinformation!
@@manuelkorivu3966 Efficient? Depends if you have a few hours to spare to charge up batteries or fill up and go with hydrogen.
@@impeachapeach9311 your choice ! Efficiency is efficiency and it will be what will win in the futur of electric car
wow first time i hear scotty's normal calm voice
He's got a great voice when he's doing these! I'd like to hear him narrate some audio books!
Hydrogen cars has this same problem than ICE cars. You can't refill the tank at home. With BEV I could charge the battery over night and in the morning I could have full battery. I could do my daily driving without need to worry about refilling. And then again charge the battery at home during the night. I'd say it's very convenient to not need to worry about filling the tank, ever.
Scott thank you for this video, I learned a lot about H fuel cars . Your presentation was excellent and I appreciated that you were not shouting at us. More of this please.
Lol “shouting at us” He does hugh 😂 its all good Scotty 👊🏼
Thanks for supporting our troops. 🇺🇸👍
👨👩👧 ❤ 🖥 Scotty Kilmer
This has been a thing for decades. Went to Epcot Center in early 2000s. There was a GM pavilion there and they had a display of hydrogen cars. It was already old. Had a construction engineering firm working on a project for me around 2005. They were working on a hydrogen fueling station concept (nothing to with my project, but many of the engineers we also working on that). It is a nightmare. And forget producing enough hydrogen to fuel our vehicles. We have 300M cars in the US today. Think about that.
If Japanese are working on this, this is absolutely a future..
@@ravenclawgamer6367 Hydrogen car makes more sense in Asia lol. Not everyone has a garage lmao
no BEVs make more sense, hydrogen way less efficient. And BTW Hydrogen fuel cells are also electric vehicles
@@ravenclawgamer6367 comparable batteries to what? They are also working on li-ion battery recycling
@@ccpmustfall6445 You dont need a garage, there are outdoor charging stations everywhere.
@@ravenclawgamer6367 Very few people travel 500km in one day (full charge). You can charge overnight.
I totally agree Scotty, thing is they've been talking hydrogen for years and they claimed back then it was so sensitive and the vehicles could blow up easy was the excuse not to do it. I'm 63 and doubt I will own one but love the concept better than electric because on a cold rainy day with a fan, wipers, lights, radio, heater, etc. would use up a battery pretty quick.
Lol I guess this is one way to say you have no idea what you're talking about.
I drive 2 teslas in cold. Nothing what you say is true.
Scotty! You have saved my life before when my car wouldn’t start, I can’t thank you enough!
Are you talking about those super capacitor, battery-less car jump starters?
@@Bruce_Wayne35 yup, bought one, left it in my truck for 3 months, never used it, started my car in 25 F weather
@@Bruce_Wayne35 There's buses using super capacitors instead of batteries, in Belgrade, Serbia, noone mentions it.
Would've been nice to have a Plugin hydrogen hybrid, basically a fuelcell car with a large enough battery to do short commutes with. Having the car charge overnight is very convienient since you would never have to stop at any fuel station for the normal commute.
So basically you can charge like a normal electric car but also use Hydrogen fuel as well?
You really upped the price because of duplicate technology. Now, you need the battery bank and fuel cell. I see your point but you need to think about space, weight and cost.
@@theragingplatypus4743 Higher price, and lower mileage due to the weight of the batteries.
Instead of using a battery, capture the dihydrogen monoxide exhaust and let the owner plug the car in to separate it back into hydrogen and oxygen to refill the tank. There will be some losses this way so you will still need to refuel every once in a while, but it does let you stretch a single tank of hydrogen, or even refuel using purified, distilled water.
@@theragingplatypus4743 No, basically every hydrogen powered fuel cell car is a hybrid already. To make it a plug in, it just takes the plugs, some electronics and a bigger battery.
glad to see a real hydrogen tech video showcasing the actual reality of the tech instead of giving a negative opinion of its future and shutting it down completely as impossible
Producing hydrogen requiere so much electrical energy. Any conversion from any form of energy to another requiere loss of energy. So the best way its using electricity by simple el motor, instead of a complex and dangerous equipment for stocking hydrogen
This isn't even close to the 'actual reality of the tech', it's just hydrogen pitched in almost the most positive way possible, ignoring any of the real negatives. If Hydrogen was better than BEVs, they would be winning.
Stanley Allen Meyer died suspiciously after he developed patents to power a dune buggy with water. His last words were supposedly “they poisoned me.” They have been working on a water powered engine since the 1800’s. A good exploration is the book; “Water Car” by James Robert.
Great video Scotty. They’ve had 50 years to figure this out, but instead they were so busy making trillions and terraforming the planet.
Reverse-Terraforming*
@@TheSpiralProgression that would depend on who,. Or what was doing the teraforming. 🤔👽?
E85 from Corn? Yeah oil pigs love $$$
Figured out long ago and buried. Hint look at old encyclopedias.
They could power cars with water if they wanted.
Hydrogen is relatively expensive to produce, so it remains a poor electric storage medium until cost of production drops an order.
But in Greece it may be a lot cheaper than gasoline
@@carmoto-ky5lv vrika ellina se tosa sxolia😂
@@euaggelou1305 γενικά βρισκόμαστε εκεί που δεν το περιμενεις😂
I would love to buy one of these, but the fact that it costs twice as much to go down the road as my 2009 Charger R/T...and the fact that they cost $10-15k more is just not feasible. It's a toy for the rich right now.
@@The_Gallowglass "It's a toy for the rich right now."
This was true also for the first Teslas but now they are becoming quite common. My neighbor who lives in an inexpensive tiny house has one in the driveway.
"What does cow manure have to do with an automotive engine?" ... Well Scotty all new "modern" day cars are shitty
That's why I'm still driving a 05 Malibu with 160,000 miles.
@@tanman7879 06's was a cross over year....from bad to worse!
@@robertl.fallin7062 I guess I got lucky mine runs like a top. It burns/leaks oil but not bad. That's the only problem I've had with it. I do want something newer though.
@@tanman7879 well dang i cant live like that i like cars too much i only keep them for eight years and buy something new lol
@@ttamcc.4674 Yeah I hear ya
One thing all CNG cars failed to do. :. Instead of installing a pressure regulator right on the tank they runned high pressure 1000+ psi lines throughout the car and installed a pressure regulator next to the engine. That's why during accidents those lines break and things blow up. Hopefully Toyota installed the step down pressure regulator right on the tank and runned a low pressure line from the regulator to the fuel cell. . 😊
just found this, I've been watching your vids for ages, Very different to your normal style of video, great job Scottie, very informative. Cheers,
it's a nice change from his usual animated conversation style and rapid-fire speech
@@ircimager
Yes as long as it's a very temporary!! I watch him after a long day of seriousness, & still gain :)
From an Energy point-of-view, BEV cars win over Hydrogen cars. EVs are way more efficient.
You ever investigated the battery manufacturing process and the toxic waste it produces?
The people who believe that EV's including the batteries are not efficient/cost effective to manufacture and operate are simply idiots.
Period. You can't fix S T U P I D......
There’s a huge problem with electric cars and meds so I’m out of time does it takes to charge the battery
Have to get it to under 5 minutes otherwise.....
Electric vehicles don’t have a long future
@Car Freaknatic Yes not to mention nio battery swapping in under 5 minutes. tesla nio li auto xpeng heavily invested lets go !!
@Car Freaknatic there are plenty of people that drive more than 200-300 miles per day. You may not know them but it doesn't mean they don't exist. The Holiday charging debacle in California is proof that more needs to be done to expand EV charging availability. It's a great start but it is nowhere near ready to overtake the ICE. There are problems now with the limited number of EVs on the road now. Compare it to the total number of ICE vehicles on the road. The tide will turn but so will the amount of pollution that EVs will cause. Every technology has its downside even if they have not been realized yet.
my dad touted this tech in the 70's during the gas shortage.
My dad too except we were thinking of using electricity to split water and harness the hydrogen.
I think the main reasons why it wasn't available was because what would happen to Saudi Arabia and Syria and Libya etc. Also there is the ability to tax oil. Now saving the planet has caught on and is fashionable.
I work in the field. This was a nice video. A couple of things that might interest your and others:
1. The US DOE has just launched a program called the Hydrogen Shot that has the goal of making "green" hydrogen at $1/kg by the end of the decade. "Green" means made without fossil fuels and usually means electrolysis (splitting water with electricity).
2. Total emissions from a hydrogen vehicle using hydrogen from natural gas are less than those for gasoline because the hydrogen fuel cell and electric power train are so efficient. It's not what we want, but it is a place to start and as the hydrogen gets cleaner, the car gets better while if you buy a gasoline ICE vehicle, you are committed to 10 or more years of emissions.
3. It takes a lot of energy to transport and dispense hydrogen. That's not necessarily a problem because we have huge amounts of renewable resources (sun and wind). It is purely a matter of cost.
4. In the US, the focus may be shifting to hydrogen for heavy and medium duty trucks. They have the volume to store the hydrogen more easily and the economics of a truck run is totally different from the economics of a light duty vehicle. If I recall correctly, if you could make hydrogen at $5/kg, you'd be able to beat diesel for long haul trucking. We think we're close to that now.
5. It's hard to make electric vehicles go further than we see right now. Let me say that differently....there is a cost for having battery capacity or hydrogen capacity on the vehicle. For low capacity, like typical commuting, it is cheaper to provision with batteries. As the energy capacity goes up, it becomes cheaper to provision with hydrogen storage and fuel cell. This is the other reason why we're looking at heavy duty trucks, delivery trucks, and so forth. Decarbonizing them with batteries doesn't seem to make economic sense. Some things seem to _need_ hydrogen to decarbonize.
For all of these technologies, there are huge savings if we could build at scale. We can't build at scale until people want them. They don't want them until we get prices down....which requires them to buy more. This is where government research comes in. We help clarify and reduce risk in the technology so that business and finance feel confident enough to take the needed risks.
BTW: I'm VERY interested in what someone in the industry thinks of our present energy situation and how we will meet the challenge of climate change or be obliterated by it.
@@jamesvandamme7786 yeah it's probably battery for SUV and smaller, and hydrogen for things like trains and ships and airliners. :)
Hydrogen combustion is in the works.
@@napoleonbonaparte1260 for aicraft yeah. For small cars battery is probably better.
I work for Toyota at San Antonio Tx I am so proud to work there
I am very excited and I can wait to see it happen.
you better look for a new job
@@JohnSmith-pn2vl you better get off the internet or your parents are going to find out you been on the internet commenting on TH-cam again. You know how you get when you don't agree with other comments.
From which supplier does come the fueocell? SFC Energy?
Scotty, Thank you for your review of Hydrogen vehicles and their use and value in the automotive market. I have a Honda Clarity FCV 2020/21. I did a lot of studying and searching for the best FCV value. The Honda clarity is hands down the best value. I drive very conservatively both on the streets and the freeways of Southern California. It may look a little "quirky" but when driving it is a pleasure. This is my 4th electric assist car. It is indeed an experimental car because of all the "perks" they give you. So, if you do have any problems remember the $15K in free Hydrogen, the California $4,500 rebate and the low downpayment and lease payment. I am a business man and have to drive part of the time to keep my business going. I am a life insurance agent with New York Life for the past 40 years. Based on the tax credits for mileage, the IRS is practically paying me to drive the car. I leased the FCV in late October 2020 and only have 3840 miles on the car. While the EV and FCV market only constitutes a very small proportion of the running ICE cars in California, it is the future. I agree that the cars will get cheaper in the future and the infrastructure will grow and bring the price of fuel down. In fact Shell Hydrogen station in Torrance Ca. sells H2 between 10AM and 2PM for $12.99. And now has extended the time for the reduced price from 8PM to 6AM every weekday. So, based on my wallet, the Honda FCV is the best value over the competition.
The Honda FCX Clarity Hydrogen Fuell Cell Car first came out in 2005 with Jamie Lee Curtis as the first celebrity to lease the vehicle. You could only lease it and it was only in California. Problem was it was poorly market and by time the patent was up, Toyota released the Mirai for both lease and buy. Honda screwed up on this big time as it was a great car too. They later came out the hybrid and electric car to test the market.
There are 2 ways to get hydrogen:
- hydrocarbons (usually methane) which creates lots of pollution (no matter where the methane comes from, ground or cow manure)
- water through electrolysis which is very inefficient - you're better off putting the electricity directly into the battery, even taking into consideration the losses from the battery weight and if we consider the electricity to come from renewables.
The only place where the hydrogen is better is at refuel time and at the range per fill-up. I highly support hydrogen for medium and short range freight transport with clean hydrogen generation at the ends of the run... for small cars BEVs are better and if the energy density may not seem satisfactory, there are promising technologies that can reduce the "recharge/refuel" time - flow cell batteries, supercapacitors and others I can name. For our sake, I wish hydrogen not be the fuel of the future.
In a future with an overabundance of clean energy, I could see the high energy density being useful for clean air travel and freight. For consumer vehicles, I don't see any way that they will ever be better than batteries just due to the inefficiency of electrolysis, unless of course the hydrogen is generated by refining hydrocarbons as it currently is, in which case literally what's the point.
You catch the right point.
I don’t know the details, but it’s entirely possible that even if generating hydrogen from hydrocarbons creates pollution, that it still creates less pollution than ICEs. Thermal losses in ICEs are massive, and at the very least by processing the hydrocarbons en masse instead of on the go, it’s likely you can increase the energy yields
@@alienturtle1946 it's similar (ICEs have a slight edge). The only way hydrogen is cleaner than gasoline or diesel is if it's made by electrolysis and even that depends on the way electricity is generated. There are multiple studies, but this is AFAIK their conclusion so far... just keep in mind hydrogen for mobility is not as widely used so there is nothing definite yet.
I will try to find some studies I read and link them here... don't have them on hand now 🙂
Also, I would like not to choose the lesser evil if I can choose an even lesser one that's already more widely available (BEVs).
Whatever full electric EV are better for long term. There is a lot to improve in full EV technology, long-term i all bet all may money on Full EV. In 2040 we all may get are energy of Nuclear Fusion , long term electricity will become shipper and olso Full EV are less pollution long term, because in a Full EV you can charge the battery anywhere and olso you can change the old battery and practically get a better new battery with more range.
R.I.P Stanley Meyers and Aaron Salter Jr ❤️
We could never have anything for ourselves!!! This is fucked up!! To the highest!!!
@@godsherrod7 facts
Charging stations also exist at a place most of us are familiar with...it’s called home
I have 2 in my garage.
Not true at all. Most people do not live in a single dwelling house. Many people live in apartments or condos or park on streets that are not set up for convenient charging.
@@gkprivate433 while not perfect, the electric infrastructure is far, far, far more established than hydrogen. Street lights or other sidewalk adjacent charging stations are easier to install than hundreds of thousands of hydrogen filling stations.
@@SodaPopin5ki
Easier because it’s cheaper. Electric cars are subsidized.
A 120 volt plug takes 2 weeks to charge a Tesla!
I like the hydrogen car than ev. But we need infrastructure for filling stations
❤️
And that's the issue. Based on what I've seen, it's six times the cost to set up a hydrogen station v regular petrol. And that's the rub. Not many operators are going to set one up when there are so few hydrogen cars.
It will happen over time, just how the electric car infrastructure has slowly increased over the past decade.
@@Bruh-jt3xq difference is electricity is already ubiquitous. Not hard to wire charging stations to the local electric grid. Hydrogen needs unique storage and delivery systems, totally different
@@reiverdaemon just watch. It will come
I didn’t know you had an indoor voice til now. I always learn a ton from you.
Hey Scotty
I just learned about compressed hydrogen disk technology that
much lighter and easier to
get soon than waiting to charge
batteries. Each disk can be recycled
150 times at a recycle plant.
What do you think?
Plasma Technoligies is the company , it's still proivate but rumblings are it's going to be bought out & likely it's tech put in the proverbial lock box, just too good & the big money can't make money on it.
Hmmm… Sounds almost too good to be true 🤔
Ammonia is the better Hydrogen fuel source. Ammonia Fuel Cells are as powerful as Hydrogen Fuel cell with the added benefit that Ammonia is easier to handle because you don't need to highly compress it like Hydrogen.
Do ammonia fuel cells react the ammonia directly, or do they split the hydrogen out in-line and just react the hydrogen?
Ammonia is harder to come by
@@kongstrong1938 you make it out of the hydrogen you're starting with and ambient nitrogen.
@@kongstrong1938 They have some new tech that is suppose to take water and air to make ammonia. Some electricity is required, but if they can mass produce it, it would solve a lot of problems.
Unfortunately the production of hydrogen is still much less efficient than charging and discharging batteries. Maybe that will improve in the future. Oh and fuel cell vehicles will never be as cheap to produce as battery EV’s.
yeah, the waste of energy during water->hydrogen->water process is too much. Sitting on battery is safer than on Hydrogen tank.
Electrical vehicles still use unrenewable resources such as lithium and vanadium to build batteries with
@@life-engineering-relax3122 watch some videos of failed lithium battery fires. You may have a slightly different perspective afterward.
@@terryhill4732 Even the hydrogen car has battery in it. Did you notice in the video?
@@terryhill4732
Mined by little kids.
Hydrogen cars are like flying cars, promised but never delivered. Don’t bet your life on them.
They already exist. There is a network of Hydrogen stations all over Japan. Also busses, that are able to power hospitals in a power outage.
@@Axesent77 In Fact, Japan has already moved all their Public Transit to Hydro and are banking on Hydro to be their main source of energy, having the most Hydrogen Storage of any country on Earth
I started working with Toyota in 1986 and they had hydrogen prototypes running around then, I’m surprised it’s taken then this long to finally appear (think Honda had one called the clarity too) JCB (like a British Caterpillar plant /Agriculture and Construction vehicle manufacturer) have been working on their own hydrogen engine because they also realised that for commercial uses plug in isn’t practical. It also makes sense to have to stop say 200 miles to plug in a car is just silly
it got to do with the technology. it wasnt advanced yet.
I remember those. I have one. In my back 40! In Oregon. I’m a Toyota collector. They tried Diesel too. Which the USA Government shut that down . Ford had them to ‘84-87. I have the Prototype diesel ranger and fiesta.
Oil Cartel guys! What else
Not commercially viable then from a business prospective plus not enough hydrogen filling stations even today in 2022
‘Shareholders’
Hydrogen infrastructure (manufacturing and distribution) today is not efficient as per some studies, there is loss of efficiency to the tune of 50%, this makes hydrogen extremely expensive at the moment. Manufacturing and storage both aspects need a revolutionary breakthrough in next few years or consider hydrogen fuel dead.
Thanks Scotty! I remember hearing about Hydrogen as a fuel source back in the 70's. I thought it would power an internal combustion engine. I see it is being used a bit differently now. Stay safe Scotty, Merry Christmas.
Saw a 35 second video of the rear of a hydrogen corolla. It sounded really good when it drove off. I believe it was manual too! The future of cars can be more fun than I anticipated.
I don't know about a manual tranny for these (although I didn't watch the video that you are talking about). From this video it looks like the car uses electrons from hydrogen gas to get it's energy, therefore I would presume that a hydrogen car would also use the same type of engine that a Tesla uses which can produce so many RPM's that there is no need to shift between different Drive gears. I definitely wish that in the future we can preserve the things that make driving fun like gasoline engines and shifting tho
Can’t wait for Honda’s version of this.
The Honda FCX Clarity Hydrogen Fuell Cell Car first came out in 2005 with Jamie Lee Curtis as the first celebrity to lease the vehicle. You could only lease it and it was only in California. Problem was it was poorly market and by time the patent was up, Toyota released the Mirai for both lease and buy. Honda screwed up on this big time as it was a great car too. They later came out the hybrid and electric car to test the market.
These high production history and tech videos like you used to do on Kilmer’s Garage are a treat
The world doesn’t have enough platinum for millions of potential hydrogen fuel cell vehicles , maybe one of these asteroids we keep landing on haha
-Neither does it have enough cobalt for all the li-ion batteries.-
So we better start mastering some carbon nano tube / graphite technology soon.
EDIT: cobalt already being replaced. Still can't wait for a carbon future.
Whatever keeps fuel prices down, I'm for.
@Great White a guy tried to do that but he got killed
@Great White More like the masters cant profit from this type of car.
.....there is an asteroid rich in noble metals and yes there's been talk of mining it one day. It can be looked up on the toob . I might look it up myself . A talk about the technical difficulties for hydrogen storage is what I was hoping to see.
Scotty U definitely educate very well !
Thank U for All U do my Friend 👊
I like hydrogen over battery power. Real world math here. Pass zero emission electricity through water and put hydrogen in storage tank. Drive car to fuel station and fill up tank in car with hydrogen. When driving hydrogen passes through fuel cell producing electricity for motor without greenhouse gases. They even work in cold weather because Montreal (which gets winter) runs hydrogen fuel cell buses and they work just fine on the coldest days.
They already have boats (well a demonstrator proving it) that can run on hydrogen. They extract hydrogen from the water using wind and solar power then powers the vessel itself forward. They also added sails which doubles as a propellant (obviously not useful on a car). So there are ways to use non-fossil fuel production to make hydrogen even without using a vast source such as poop, but just wind and solar (and nuclear, for that matter).
Just because we can use alternatives doesn't mean that we should. Wind/solar generally have proven to be a failure as an alternative.
@@joemccarthy7120 the thing is that we should use alternatives especially when things like boats are greatly polluting the ocean
@@brianospina4387 If viable alternatives existed, I would fully support them. Unfortunately, it seems like every proposed alternative to fossil fuels is much like the cure being worse than the disease. Subsidizing the implementation and operation of wind/solar is worse than doing nothing, for example. Same too with carbon taxes which only induce people to make poorer economic choices, a process that can only lead to more waste.
you gotta be kiddin' me you go back back in time and put sails on boats because .. you need them lmao
Hydrogen technology is amazing. We could theoretically make massive hydrogen batteries to store renewable energy instead of expensive and wasteful lithium ion batteries, and turn them on in the day to provide power to cities.
No. That isn't how a hydrogen fuel cell works. smh
How are lithium batteries wasteful? and Hydrogen is horribly inefficient with 67% energy losses from source to wheels
@@jhindson88 Lion batteries are 80-90% efficient. Hydrogen fuel cells, 83%. Once the electricity leaves the battery or cell the efficiency is the same as they both go to the same electric motors.
@@protonneutron9046 squeky dint mean the fuel cell tech. He was comparing the hydrogen gas as a storage vs the lithium battery storage for renewable power generation.
@@marcohangman5312 Still wrong. It takes more electricity to PRODUCE the hydrogen than is produced by the solar cells. Another reason why solar isn't viable unless you are FAR off the base load grid
It cost 4 times more electricity to get a fuel cell charged vs a battery, until a fantastic catalyst comes around, the technology is dumb
Thing is hydrogen will be produced by excess energy from wind and solar and also the energy change for the fossil free heavy industry will rely on huge amounts of hydrogen. Heavy long range vehicles and ships for sure will be powered by fuel cells. EU is launching it’s greatest project ever on hydrogen energy and the cost is calculated to go down to less than a third today. Fuel cells are really a thing. All can’t run on battery.
Only 10% of the cost of long haul companies are fuel. Battery in Tesla semi is close to 7tons that are then taken from the net load capacity which is fatal for cost.
Just need electricity and water, there is excess electricity and an abundance of water. Your car can charge with compressed hydrogen in 2-3 min. Combined with a BEV is a good suit for heavy trucks like semi's. The weight to power ratio for a semi truck with just batteries plus carrying or pulling a load does not make sense in a BEV.
Problem is the oil industry controls half the world and they will never allow this to become full scale. A guy in the 50s invented a car that ran on water and did 50 mph. He ended up dead soon after. MAKES YOU THINK.
SunHydrogen is working on that right now
@@jaymabe8633 interesting I will investigate that.👍
I like the idea of the hydrogen cassette. You just store in trailers and exchange like you do propane tanks.
If I was a betting man, id bet on electric!
short term, yes.
All hydrogen cars are electric, but not all electric cars use hydrogen.
@@markcrawford1982 lol...coal
@@markcrawford1982 i wish just for once an engineer wouldnt act like an enviromentalist expert XP
@@markcrawford1982 The good ol' USA is under the right latitude for people to have photovoltaic and battery storage. No need for more coal burning plants.
Dang scottie I really dig this style of video, so informative and detailed, and very well edited. Perfect voice over too
While hydrogen cars are environmentally clean, producing the hydrogen is not.
Well, same applies to EV batteries
@@paralelmind exactly
were do you think the electricity comes from, not always quote clean energy. that quote clean energy is not so clean, nothing is free there is always negative consequences to all fuel sources.
@@paralelmind But electricity has the POTENTIAL to be nearly 100% renewable, whereas hydrogen does not
Wrong. You can use solar cells to split water and into hydrogen and oxygen.
Scott, hydrogen fuel cells have been used for years in forklifts. The BMW plant in Greer , SC uses hydrogen fuel cells in most of its forklifts. The hydrogen fuel cells require lot of maintenance as well as forklifts using them. It was discovered that hydrogen fuel cells do not work well in dirty environments
Then you don't use them in that application. Problem solved.
My only question is how quickly do fuel cells fade in efficiency as compared to the standard lithium-ion battery commonly used in electric vehicles today. (I know Tesla has unveiled a new 4600 series battery patent, which uses silicone and a new tab-less design, but we don't know how they compare yet to the traditional lithium-ion battery.)
The cells don't fade at all I think. The problem is making hydrogen into a liquid.
Hydrogen takes 6 times the energy to travel the same distance as electricity. So it aint gunna happen
Absolutely. H2 is doa.
I heard some environmental guy talking on Adam Carolla podcast, says hydrogen will never work. This was right before I was going to invest in Nikola.
That's right. It struck me as unfortunate that this wasn't mentioned in this otherwise very interesting video. As well as the fact that Toyota has just released its first pure BEV, the Lexus 300e, with a 10 year or one million kilometer warranty for the battery. Hydrogen will probably be a viable solution for planes, traines and trucks.
better off just using the already preexisting electricity to power the car instead of using it to produce hydrogen....wasteful n inefficient.
@@dennydeckerful 1000 other reasons NOT to "invest in Nikola" as if that was even possible. You can trade anything but that was a pure reckless naïve *gamble* not an investment.
This guys youtube done turned into a commercial channel disguised as educational entertainment
Why do you need the word "done" in that sentance?
the problem with Hydrogen is mass production usually requires fossil fuels and CO2 emissions. Need to solve that problem as well
Aren't fossil fuels used to charge the majority of EVs on the road today?
My understanding is that a hydrogen "gas" tank would take up a LOT of space to get a reasonable range and that pressurized refills can not be done very quickly.
That said? I love the technology. It does have a commercial future
Ur narrative was so soothing like ASMR. Oh and also informative! Keep up the great work!
Damn Scotty didn't know you're a scientist too!
The only way to get hydrogen industrially though is to use electricity to split water. of which you inevitably loose some energy. So it’s an extra step. Total net carbon emissions are higher.
I think you guys are forgeting that electricity is every were and hydrogen pipelines are not.... and the fact that fast charging for the daily use is about 5-10min.... and free
Also hydrogen is only faster if someone wasn’t using it within the past 30 minutes, as it takes about 30 minutes for the stations to compress enough hydrogen for the next vehicle.
Time will tell , which tech succeeds, but there will be a tipping point at some point with advancements ...
@@Rio-by1eh except for the fact that producing hydrogen through electrolysis will always be more expensive than just good old fashioned electricity. Sure! Only time may tell, but I’ve got a pretty good idea of what she’s going to say
@@zachgrall6543 m
@@zachgrall6543 it’s more expensive to run cars off of gas than crude oil but people do it anyway
I think Toyota paid for Scotty to read a transcript. Because I never seen him create a video so calm and talk in this manner. 🐴
I couldn't hear him. He wasn't shouting. LOL
It sounds like Scotty is reading a press release:(
Exactly
He is. It’s from Toyota and the new Mirai. I read it to.
He is. This is called an infomercial.
I heard of fuel cell technology over a decade ago. Glad to see it becomming a reality.
Crazy how Scotty makes so many videos . He must work really hard. How does he possibly think of ideas to post 2-3 videos everyday ? Pretty crazy when u think about it
He is a droid. Compare his wild gesticulations with Robot
because many of his videos make over $500 each in revenue
@@CincyPhotography oh wow, $500.
You think Scotty made this?
using hydrogen to store energy can never be as efficient as storing electricity in a battery
as of now hydrogen has no future and won't have a future until they find a clean and efficient way to produce it. right now it costs 3 times the price of gas and is more dangerous than any other types of fuel / electric cars
😱 Great Scott! 1.21 jiggawatts (gigawatts) is produced
I have been a fan of hydrogen power for yonks - I am pleased that Governments are now looking seriously at the mass production of Hydrogen so that the technology, which is quite simple, can be further developed.
Scotty sounds more laid back since moving out of the high stress environment in Houston.
Where he go - florida?
@@iotaxi tennessee
I like hydrogen better but the infrastructure if harder to build!
That was said about BEVs but that problem was solved
And with a catalyst that makes hydrogen out of ammonia you could buy ammonia at any grocery store
@@kevinloving3141 lol and the ammonia was produced from Hydrogen and Nitrogen via Bosch Haber process and thus extra energy spend to go that detour route
From the looks of things, I believe the Pure EV cars are having all the edges.
Recently drove from Cleveland Ohio to Miami Florida. At each fueling stop we made 4 of them (every 300 miles at Pilot stations) not one or any of the adjacent refueling stations were there any charging stations for electric cars.
@@edl617 I believe setting up charging station is easier than petrol station. Once the demand grows, there will more entrepreneur who will rush to provide the service.
@@edl617 It would be even worse for Hydrogen Cars,the logistics,storage,and production of hydrogen already killed it any chance of hydrogen being viable for a car.
@@edl617 I'm guessing you were driving a gas vehicle, why would you expect to see a charging station..........
@@foxhound4218 yea it’s not just about “setting up a charging station”. That thing needs A LOT of power to charge the average car in that “quick” 30 minutes. Basic match will tell you that the traditional power production does not have the capacity to charge an EV for everyone. Without nuclear power, the grid will never be able to replace every gas car with an EV. The current setup only works because there are few EV’s. Hybrid is the way to go at this point…i enjoy my 52-60mpg and it only cost 20k brand new.
Scotty did not even mention existing technology that is being held back....super conductive motors and wires which increase either range,or, horsepower by up to TEN TIMES current numbers.
Damn Scotty you sound like a scientist instead of a mechanic great job
Interesting assessment. Mechanics is a subset of applied science, so this makes sense.
@@davidanalyst671 ??? are you stupid?
I really like this format. Keep'em coming. I also like the other but this show "your stuff".
That was an awesome video. Great content and animation with very clear descriptions 👍🏾
Ordered a Tesla Y for my daily driver. Can park it in the garage at the end of the day and be ready to go in the morning. Hanging on to my Silverado for pulling the RV. Hopefully H+ tech becomes more mainstream, that way I can replace my trusty Chevy. Unfortunately GM doesn’t make em like they used to.
H2 is the lightest and carries less energy per cubic foot of any fuel.
its not fuel, its a storage medium, electricity is the fuel because it has electric motors. Electrical engineer here. Hydrogen is NOT the answer. horribly inefficient to create, compress, store and transport, not to mention the safety issues
@@leonsam84 thank you! Finally! Someone else is saying it. Like, don’t these people know that Hydrogen vehicles are just EV’s with extra steps? Extra steps = lower efficiencies, more overhead, and more often than not more labor. AKA, unless if you crack for the stuff, it ain’t going to be cheaper than electricity, and if you do frack for the stuff you’re probably doing more harm than good.
Fuel cell should be used as alternatives means to electricity production. Not as transport.
@@leonsam84 but potentually much easier, faster to fuel in a society that values time.... most ppl don't live in houses either, so recharging becomes even more of a hassle
@@zachgrall6543 ice popularity shows America isn't too concerned with overall efficiency. Redundant nuclear could potentially make efficiency less of an issue down the road. Personally I like that I wouldn't have to plug in every night too (and one needs to have a garage for that)
Hydrogen for small cars is a massive scam. Efficiencies along the procurement route, from generation to distribution , are atrocious. Do your math.
Rubbish
Trash
There is a significant shift globally towards Green Hydrogen (search youtube) production. Country(ies) wide adoption will bring the price down. The target by the enthusiast countries is to achieve $2.0 per KG.
I like your voice. Unusual tenor for a documentary-style educational video but super effective!
The problem with hydrogen is it's very expensive/power hungry to make. That is why efficiency wise hydrogen cars are so low compared to most electric cars.
Short answer: it uses gas to make and they can sell it at a station
A station that has to be outside the city limits due to its blast zone when things go wrong! As they tend to do with Hydrogen. It's the single most difficult gas to store next to Fluorine.
@@williamarmstrong7199 I've never heard of petrol or propane exploding, have you?
This is the exact argument they had about petrol engines 120 years ago.
@@phillipmorgenthaler It isn't nearly as much as Hydrogen.
@@lordanonimmo7699 i can even fine one real world example of a hydrogen car exploding so what ever
I can give even a shorter answer : Hydrogen car is a inefficient Electric car !
“Electric cars struggle to travel half the distance of a gas car on a full tank” is wildly inaccurate.
no its accurate
Scotty is making toyota infomercials now! Hahaha!
Some things I learned reading the comments here:
1) People need to take physics/chemistry classes
2) People prefer conspiracy theories over reality
3) People prefer conspiracy theories over reality because they need to take physics/chemistry classes
Scotty you speak well and easy to understand, thank you for the info
Except he has it all wrong as usual sorry. Hydrogen and cars will never happen. Ships and trains yes no problem but small cars? No overly expensive (uses a LOT of Platinum) need constant frequent servicing (filters are extremely sensitive & expensive) and can only be refuelled outside a city limit.
Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars are the future of the automotive industry!! It would be the most sensible replacement for electric battery driven vehicles. Current gas stations could use their current facilities. One storage tank could contain hydrogen instead of gasoline making the switch over to hydrogen cells the cheapest since we would already have the infrastructure in place!!!
You have to think outside your box. With EV you won't need gas stations. Especially when EV gives 1-2000 miles per charge.
Or just get rid of gas stations and have a full "tank" every morning when you step into your vehicle.
Hey Scotty are you now a rocket scientist? Good job!
That's pretty interesting, maybe someday they will build a car that runs on just oxygen or water
Why not? The professor in "Back to the Future" ended up putting a Black & Decker Fusion processor on his DeLorean, and it burned beer cans & banana peels, right?
Lol good old Dr Emmit Brown inspiration for the future.
Congratulations Scotty to start with 4K videos
I worked for Delphi on their solid oxide fuel cell research program from 2000 to 2012. Believe me, there's no H2 device that's going to change anything. Ours was cool because it ran so hot, 850°C, that we created H2 onboard by cracking any fossil fuel. The reformer would partially oxidize the fuel stream and the output contained a bunch of crap, but it contained free H2. The pox reformate it was called, gets pumped to the anode side of the fuel cells and atmospheric air was on the cathode side. The H2 is very unstable and needy, like my girlfriends, and attracts oxygen ions through the nickel membrane where they're collected and directed out to do whatever work you need them to do. It was a 5KW auxiliary power supply that worked best running natural gas but could run gasoline or diesel. Running diesel was the worst because it's so dirty. So all you're doing on converting fossil fuel to electricity. It was more efficient than a generator because it had no moving parts. However..they cost about a million bucks due to all the high nickel alloys needed to work at those temps.
I also worked closely with the guys at GM on their PEM fuel cell, proton exchange membrane. Theirs was meant to replace the internal combustion engines so it was much higher voltage.
The fuel needed to run this device is lab grade H2, super expensive and SUPER DANGEROUS STUFF!! Gasoline is flammable, H2 is EXPLOSIVE. Huge difference there. At Delphi we had a huge Praxair H2 tank feeding our labs..and a very close relationship with the fire house due to hydrogen being plumbed into a building.
The cost of the SOFC device and the cost of the fuel (H2) for the PEM device killed their viability. Both needed a step function (new invention) in their development curve to meet cost requirements. I believe both projects have cell scrapped.
What we need is anti gravity! Whatever happened to the dream of anti gravity cars like the jetsons??
Definitely the future! Good explanation!
Scotty Good Old Scotty......Most Reliable online Mechanic ever
Another great video!! Thanks Scotty! Merry Christmas!
i will say this is one of the best videos you have ever made.
Scottys narrations are so relaxing