Toyota's Developing A Hydrogen Combustion Engine!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- Could Toyota's hydrogen engine save combustion by converting engines?
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Toyota has developed a hydrogen combustion engine with nearly negligible harmful emissions. The project involved a Toyota Corolla Sport which participated in a 24 hour endurance race, using a 1.6L turbo inline three-cylinder out of the GR Yaris. The idea was to convert a gasoline engine to a hydrogen engine, as an alternative to creating new electric cars. With hydrogen combustion, oxygen and hydrogen are burned, providing useful work, with water as the only main emissions.
Naoaki Ito, one of the lead engineers on the project, puts it well: “For this hydrogen-powered engine, the engine itself remains the same as before. Our concept for this project was to create a hydrogen engine by using as much of the existing internal combustion technology as possible. We thought that achieving this would enable the conversion of existing car engines to hydrogen, providing a powerful weapon in the quest for carbon neutrality.”
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References:
Toyota Hydrogen Press Release - global.toyota/en/newsroom/cor...
Toyota Hydrogen Conversion - toyotatimes.jp/en/insidetoyot...
Toyota 24 Hour Race Results - toyotatimes.jp/en/insidetoyot...
Hydrogen Combustion Methods - www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/9/22/4842
Hydrogen Carbon Emissions - www.avl.com/documents/4053291...
Gas Carbon Emissions - climatekids.nasa.gov/review/c...
JRC Well-To-Wheels Report - publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu...
Hydrogen Production Costs - doi.org/10.1016/j.rser.2016.0...
Mirai Fuel Tank Weight - insideevs.com/news/323973/toy...
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“25% load, meaning you would need very large engines to make good power” sooo another 8.0L v10 hydrogen viper?
with all the power of a 4 cylinder corolla!!
@@bigbones916 if your really lucky. Strap a turbo to that viper. Let it rev to 10k and you'll start getting closer to an impreza
Or we could just use gasoline engines. Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel?
@Benjamin Smith dude koenigsegg makes 600hp from three cylinder engine
@@danielsatko- he’s not wrong tho, the most powerful “4cyl” in the world, while the gemera is a 3cyl engine @,@
"Lets say you have a car that burns a quart of oil every 3000 miles"
Me with an Audi 2.0TFSI: So you mean good oil economy
Does 2.0 FSI still burns oil ? I know 2009-2011TFSI burned it but after that they changed piston rings.
@@Thevol40k Subaru FB20 engine burns 1 litre of oil every 2000km on my car.
@@vulpes122 is that a rotary
New engine: Audi should do about 10,000 miles. BMW practically 'zero' both in my experience.
So it's practically a diesel?
Electric cars are not the ultimate gift to humanity.
Yes the Ultimate gift is the banana 😂
Banana powered cars
Edit: water tank -> HHO generator -> air compressor -> engine
This was really good Jason. People don´t seem to realize how difficult Hydrogen power can be.
Stan Meyer made a hydrogen car in the 80s and was coincidentally killed by the gov
Lets say you burn oil every 3k miles... *Me a AP1 owner* "right right..."
What is an AP1 ?
@@rimckd825 it’s a honda s2k
As the previous owner of a 1998 Corolla, "That's nothing, man!"
Don’t hate on Hondas self-replenishing oil system!
I'm a subaru owner with a blown head gasket... my oil goes below the dip stick about 250 miles after filling it up
I remember reading about hydrogen powered vehicles in 11th grade chemistry... Im 38 now, 22 years later. Really feels like this technology went into stasis for 2 decades.
Hydrogen was always just a distraction by the oil lobby to slow down progress
GM introduced its electric car back in the mid 80! Was killed off by the big gasoline Co's
Just because something can be done does not make it economically viable I put this hydrogen car stuff in the same category as asteroid mining. This stuff sounds impressive at Starbucks over coffee but its always the implementation and economics in the end that wins.
@@GeraldPUR Electric car was first invented in the 1840's, first one to market beat the Benz Patentwagen by 2 years.
@@redbandanacat6206 EXACTLY
I think the tank weight is still lighter than battery weight. Be interesting to see the weight difference and possible environment impacts.
With a 500Wh per 1 kg battery (CATL) coming out, a 100 kWh battery would weigh 200kg. BEV batteries are developing very fast. There's no real hope for hydrogen to win in small vehicles. Ships, trains, and maybe trucks, could have some use. But that 500Wh is the level where the game is also over for long-range trucks. A Freightliner consumes about 150 kW per 100km. That would be 300 kg. A 3 000 kg battery would give a 1 000 km range for that truck. 3 000 kg is not that much extra weight when you consider all the other tech you don't need anymore like a huge combustion engine, fuel tank, emissions systems, etc.
@@timogronroos4642 non-sense…
@@timogronroos4642 lol ice vehicles weigh on average 200kg less than evs. That battery is heavier than the entire power train
@@sigmamale4147 Whats funny? Weight is not a issue for weighter as it can tow several TONS weight behind. And eu is giving electric trucks to carry 5 tons more so batterywights is not a issue.
@@ViihdeJukat HAHAHAHA weight isnt an issue ? Guess what they could have done with that extra 3 tons ? Haul merchandise and actual products !
All other videos out there briefly touch the surface of the topic.
This is an outstanding work supported by scientific research papers.
Really awesome work
Very interesting. But I think Toyota needs a lot of respect for trying all these different options, they seem to really care about ICE fans. I appreciate that.
Battery production capacity is the problem. Huge amount of investments needed and a big cut over their profits because of the battery cost in each car. Hydrogen combustion engines would maintain a bigger piece of the pie.
Money is always what they care about.
@@MuitoDaora It's not what "they" care about.
Hydrogen ICE simply makes more sense and is way better for the environment if you take into account the whole process chain of regular EVs.
Plus the ICE has been developed and optimized for decades now, it would be a total waste to throw it all away and start fresh.
Reinventing the wheel never works.
@@MuitoDaora if you're correct, why don't they simply take the money they're investing in hydrogen power and channel it into battery production so they get all the pie?
@@vinigretzky97 I'm not defending EVs, just saying that money in their pocket is what matters.
EVs are being pushed by regulators for their efficiency and possibility of not polluting the atmosphere by using renewable energy for the whole process but the mining problem persist.
@@pjay3028 Because this experiment is dwarfed in comparison to build battery factories over the world. Even tesla has to use suppliers for their batteries.
Going to the 24h race Toyota was actually trying to find out the issues that the engine was having. It was much easier for them to find out.
I could have tested that out on the street.... They don't own a single track?
@@dylantroutman4363 It seems they don't have a track for properly testing the cars
@@dylantroutman4363 fuji speedway is their track
@@kressy and didn't toyota just built Japan's own Nürburgring recently?
@@kressy That´s their racetrack, yes. Testing cars however is done at the new Toyota Technical Center Shimoyama.
James May from Top Gear said it best: "the problem is that hydrogen is attached to other stuff." A very understated remark because it is indeed, and takes a lot of energy to split it off by itself. This is what everyone's ignoring. It's like someone saying that they're building flying saucers, counting on someone to hand them an anti-gravity devices to make it all work. The devil's in the details.
I write for sustainability publications and I just needed the science on this engine and I needed it quickly - thank you so much for this brilliant video!
My son is an engineer and was involved in the development of the Toyota Mirai fuel cell. He is currently working on next generation solid-state battery technology for EVs. I'm really proud of him.
That is Exactly what is Holding back EV's Right now, The Batteries. Solid State Batteries would be a Revolution in EV Tech as it would make them Lighter, Faster to Charge and give them a MUCH higher Range.
I wish your son the best of luck in his research because I am absolutely Impatient to see Solid State Batteries become Mainstream
Except all methods of producing solid state batteries takes huge amounts of power and mining....which leads you back to not really making a difference
Respect
@@imdrunken Those are the very issues he's working to solve - along with eliminating dendrite formation in solid state batteries. He has a PhD from the Colorado School of Mines, and he works in Golden at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory.
@@zzanatos2001 good luck to him, but I doubt he will be breaking the laws of thermodynamics or conservation of energy any time soon. All solutions come with a whole new set of problems....none of which have ever negated the problems. Just spread them out or separated them by multiple manufacturing processes or other necessary thing to make these new "solutions" work.
I've been waiting, since 1978, for hydrogen combustion vehicles, thanks to an over-enthusiastic high school physics teacher.
Merkel had a hydrogen internal combustion Presidential BMW for years.
But its only for her, nobody else...
Tom Cavanaugh
He must have been such a good guy to know!
They always say that you never forget a good teacher!
Lucky you! He/she will have inspired you with the same enthusiasm. Mine came from a guy with a little corner electrical and radio repair shop who recognised my teenage interest in radio and fired me up. ...
If YOU get the chance..put something back. It's VERY rewarding.
@Terry Winter Who (i.e. what's the source) says that electrical vehicles are more expensive and pollute more than conventional internal combustion vehicles ? Especially when evaluated over vehicle lifetime ?
Would very much like to "read up" on that but have not seen any reliable and credible material... No lack of opinions and speculations though!
Best regards
@Terry Winter
Which type of batteries are worse than what, and under which presumed circumstances ?
General "declarations" whitout more precise specifications are unfortunately of no use when one wants to investigate and understand factual problems and their circumstances...
Short (and often blusterous) simplifications might appear to be great soundbites and might even be in accordance with current findings. But they might just as well be mere slogans minted by some "interested party", and due to their brief and nebulous nature there is no proper way to determine which is the case, which renders them totally useless to anyone who is looking to actually inform them selves on an issue.
Best regards
@@mpadlite2925 it looks like you are blindfolding yourself. The most common batteries used in EVs are totally reliant on RARE minerals. 80% suppled by China. Prices will NOT fall as the clue is in the word RARE. Not to mention the appalling condition that some people are experiencing mining Cobalt. Before sounding off at others please share your ‘expert’ knowledge and explain what YOU think is a win win battery.
If we don't get a breakthrough in battery technology soon, hydrogen is going to be our savior regarding mobile applications such as airplanes. We just need cheap electricity to produce it cost-effectively.
"Burns a quart of oil every 3000 miles"
Subaru owners: Those are rookie numbers!
Yep. Bout a quart per 1000, but she has moods.
None of the three subies I had burned really any oil, the modded WRX aspirated a little if I drove it like i stole it but that's it.
difference between burning and consumption
I owned a 2.5 gt and a sti at the same time. Wife had a 2.5i legacy. We were the darling customers of Rotella T6 😬
My rotary burns less… lol
"Let's say you burn 1 quart of oil every three thousand miles..."
"Yep that's me with my 25 year old Honda B series engine"
"... And my fellow enthusiasts of old Hondas and Subarus you know what this life is like"
This was a magical and painful moment in the video
25yr. old Honda's ass! Honda continued this fine legacy in the 2012 (Gen 2) Acura MDX.
@@pw9021 uhhh he didn’t say that was the only engine that ate oil…
Laughs in 2az-fe
Hehe,98 corolla here 1 qt every 400 miles
Vq's have entered the chat 😗
With the amount of research you do for these video's do you actually have time to sleep? I'm in awe of the amount of work you put into your video's. Thank you.
early days, consider what we had for when the batteries (lead acid) and electric motors were at the time. using H2 in a car is still pretty new
normal Carb engines will run hydergen out of the box only needs minor mods to fix backfires
The double bonds between the C and Os are a nice touch.
Not tryna brag but I might have taken chem 101. 💁♂️
@@EngineeringExplained I took Chem back in grade 11. I love Chem, but man I nearly failed! It got way more difficult than I expected it to.
@@EngineeringExplained damn Jason leave some knowledge for the rest of us!
@@EngineeringExplained You left out one big issue, as Hydrogen slowly weakens the metals by bonding with them in a similar way that Oxygen does to steel. Which makes the pistons, cylinder head & block brittle over time. There was a test Mail Jeep [DJ series] that was built to burn Hydrogen but the engine lasted something like 10K miles and the pistons lasted even less. Unfortunately, this wasn't on the web, despite being in the newspapers in the pre-internet days...
@@davidhollenshead4892 Hadn't thought about that in spite of my time as an industrial welder. Hydrogen embrittlement is a pretty big deal.
It’ll be a great day when engineering explained starts using the metric system
Let’s hope not
Why?
@@hubster4477 because the metric system is simply better
@@houseking9211 well how much better, and why. Look at all the huge buildings, dams, bridges, engines, etc that we've built using our system. Would the metric system make those things better, built in a shorter time, more sound design? Just asking, I would have been used to the metric system by now if around for the last 15 years. But I don't really care if I buy 2 liters of milk or a half gallon.
Haha totally! But American education system prevents that!
Both Mercedes Benz and BMW had working ICE engines during the 70-ties as well as there were some converted ICEs in US for test purposes. One thing, not mentioned is that stoichometric combustion of hydrogen and air will result in such high temperatures that the nitrogen oxides are produced in large quantities (order of 5 - 10 000 ppm) since there is no carbon source it can not be catalyzed away as in peterol engines. The solution is to use lean fuel mixtures (approx 50%) in purpose to reduce the combustion temperature in purpose to avoid NOx formation. This results in a much lower specific power which can, in turn, be overcome by supercharging and/or an increase of engine rpm. An alternative tested was water injection into the combustion chamber in purpose to reduce the temperature. MB had both hydrogen fueled small buses and traditional sedan cars. To my knowledge most of these projects has been terminated.
Finally someone pointed it out!
I think reformed methanol is probably the best way to solve the storage issue for hydrogen vehicles. Methanol has more hydrogen per unit volume than liquid hydrogen does, and you get the choice of autothermal reforming, or steam reforming using water (which, incidentally, both h2 fuel cells and ICEs produce). For combustion engines, you can also play games with the mixture, since methanol is itself a perfectly good fuel. I don't think the way hydrogen is currently produced is a particularly relevant argument, since green hydrogen is already cheaper under certain circumstances than even grey. And the key point in the article you quoted is "usable electricity". The trick is that to run grids on stochastic generation, much of the electricity we generate won't be usable, because the robustness of the system is determined at the extremes. A grid that functions on the 5th percentile day where you just aren't generating anything will, by definition, produce massive excess on the average day.
I experimented a little with converting my 4L inline petrol car to HHO, I was converting the water to gas in the car.
The two biggest hurdles I had was spare electricity, and upper cylinder lube.
I estimate about 130amps @ 12V to make a steady flow of hydrogen and run on average 2000rpm.
Upper cylinder lube could be solved by using an engine converted to LPG only.
Also if you only partial supply (I only ran 20amps@12V) to get better fuel efficiency you will need to spoof your oxygen sensor in exhaust. The cleaner exhaust will make the ECU think it running lean and enrich the tuning and won't use less fuel.
You should make a video about that.
that sounds like a headache
I'd love to hear more about this
@@willg125 I also found that I only got about 10,000km out of my plates before they had oxidized to much. I used stainless 3.16, marine grade steel. Also my water got dirty and had to replace it about every 1,500km. I had 4 litre reservoir.
I used a teaspoon of baking soda mixed in my distilled water.
hope this helps.
@@tomkeegan3782 Random af question: Want some science-channel to check out, cause the
learning never ends? I got some.
Does this mean that hydrogen combustion spinning doritos are remotely theoretically possible now? 🤔
Mazda actually made a hydrogen powered RX8 available to Japan at one point
@@rzyao64 crap you're right, I thought for some reason that his video 2 years ago concluded that hydrogen rotaries weren't really possible. Thanks for correcting me
Wouldn't you need multiple Doritos per rotor? Jason mentioned some pretty high compression ratios, the easiest I've heard is using a big rotor for initial compression and final expansion and a smaller one for final compression and initial expansion.
Jason also made a video on why it isn't happening (Doritos in general, not multiple tricks or h2).
You can put the spinning Dorito on LPG... That will pass emissions
Liquid Piston engine. New rotary that can and does run on hydrogen. The channel Warped Perception just did a video on it.
This is an amazing presentation! I was much more hopeful for hydrogen . . .
Anyway, thank you for this insightful and thorough video!
I saw Toyota/Yamaha created a 455hp hydrogen engine. Totally reminded me of your channel.
*"Let's say you burn 1 quart of oil every three thousand miles..."*
Legacy GT Owners: "Woah, really?"
BMW Owners... 1 quart per 3K... Hold my beer.
my impreza goes through a 1 quart at most every 1k miles lol
@@briandavis7226 My friend's old impreza did the same.
Really, I have a WRX with mods (e.g. bigger turbo, injectors, I/C...) with 290k miles and doesn't burn oil. (acutally, I lost maybe not even half a quart in 3k miles.)
I think it's about the weight of oil you put in it. I use Rotella T6 5W-40 year around for years and no problems, beside some coolant leaks...
Wait till you hear about electric vehicles!
Im so happy that you include NOx, as many oversee this.
Don't u ruin my one hope of driving a V8 in my old age days.
Thats why gas cars have a catalytic converters wonder how they use a catalytic converter on this type of fuel
@@captainnavi6546 - Spoken like a person that has never driven a performance electric. If you like big V8s then you're almost certainly attracted to it because of its huge torque numbers and the fact that it can generate that torque low in the RPM band. Well, if you love loads of torque that comes on quick then you need to experience something with typically twice the torque of the average V8. You owe it to yourself to test drive a Tesla Model "S" or a Porsche Taycan (just to be able to objectively critique them if for no other reason). The instant levels of MASSIVE torque created at virtually zero RPM is absolutely intoxicating. You won't be able to keep your foot out of it.
Aint a problem if you make the einge two-stroke.
@@Tron-Jockey There's no sound tho
Sign me on! If it means it has a manual gearbox, I’m sold!
Large engine required? I’ll happily swap my petrol V8 to hydrogen V12 😁👍
One thing you didn't consider is that there are such huge surpluses in solar energy production, at times, that they have to shut down the solar plants. They could generate an enormous amount of hydrogen, and it would cost practically nothing, since they would be tapping surplus (unused) energy.
man this is excactly the video i wanted to see
46km per stop is crazy. 35 stops is not good.
It has to be green hydrogen in the 1st place and only 5% of current hydrogen production is green the rest is via Gas reforming.
YESSS
So do i
Also not mentioned is the enormous amount of energy required to compress the hydrogen to 10,000 psi, none of which is recovered during vehicle operation.
Offset with nuclear or renewable energy
Hydrogen is another pipe dream.
that is a good point, so don't do that
@@Brandon_letsgo then how would you solve Japan's energy problems?
Being a small country located in a spot with the highest incidents of earthquakes and tsunamis on the planet, makes nuclear, wind, solar, etc less viable or more expensive or just flat out dangerous than in other countries.
One of their solutions is to import energy. Electricity can't be imported from far away...and frequencies and voltages differ between countries. (Japan can't even move electricity between north and south because of frequency differences)
If not imported hydrogen to suppliment their energy needs, what would you propose?
@@tylerdurden3722 The point here is that hydrogen is less efficient than almost any alternative. So actually the answer to your question is pretty easy; do almost anything other than burning hydrogen! Battery powered cars, for example, will move more people more miles and at a cheaper cost than doing it with hydrogen. It doesn't matter how the electricity gets made. Also, Japan has a lot of nuclear reactors and doesn't seem to be slowing down much on nuclear.
I have aquired a eficiency level of 50% a 60% with best reactors. We Have (I and my group) 50% consum reduction of gasoline, and more than 90% reducing emissions. The blind peoples say this is not possible, they say that we are crazy. Crazy is anyone that not makes HHO use, then we make a silent revolution. I like your explantion. Congratulations
First of all, the high efficiency of the fuel cell comes from a long R&D process which took place over the course of several decades. I would not be surprised if the HCCI engine (which already is at 45% efficiency) could go through the same process, perhaps even with a better efficiency than the fuel cell at the end of it.
Then, the hydrogen can probably be produced using solar-powered thermal reactions in countries with high temperatures; I imagine a future in which countries which now produce oil instead produce hydrogen, which has the advantage of being able to be shipped to other nations as an energy source. (Note that the U. S. and China would be some of these countries, as would be Spain.)
Thirdly, the large tank size, as well as the 4h refilling time, can be remedied by exchanging the entire tank at refilling stations. This will reduce the total refilling time 7-fold.
Well said. From what it sounds like formula one will be almost zero emission by 2030, and in order to do that there needs to be an abundance of wind and solar energy to pull hydrogen from water and then to store and ship.
Solar lmao
@@mikebunting847 not really they found a way to make hydrogen by using gallium and tin in water
Battery production may be limited by shortage of raw materials. Green hydrogen could be a more sustainable source of energy for vehicles.
You use 48 kwh of electric energy to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. With that energy, you can drive 200 miles or 300 km in a Tesla. It's not enough efficient yet. Maximum ideal efficiency is 39 kwh/1 kg of Hydrogen, but not yet reached. For up to 500 km range, I believe that electric is the best option. Plus I can produce my own electricity. Hydrogen is just too much of a hassle. Unless, is really cheap. Probably in 15 years, will be different.
@@gordesmihaela4635 You are assuming right now that windmills or solar panels arent going to get really expensive. We need to have a lot of options on energy, and honestly Hydrogen is just in the beginning phase of creation. EV's make sense for a commuter car. They do not make sense in freight, boating or airplanes. On a larger scale Hydrogen is honestly our best option in fueling the future and also keeping our same lifestyle.
@@gordesmihaela4635 no it isn't they found an easier way they use gallium and tin with room temperature and made hydrogen
You're making a few important assumptions, and missing a few steps. As the video illustrated, hydrogen combustion itself is a dead horse, even with much higher pressure you can't bring enough hydrogen with you for it to be practical, and even at 700bar refilling is already so impractical that for every 7 minute refill, the station has to re-pressurise at least 15 minutes, meaining you can do at most 3 cars/hour/station. Which is less than a fast charger, which has a net higher energy efficiency to boot (not just the hydrogen takes a lot of energy, the infrastructure as well, like compressors, whereas that kind of stuff is minimal on electric). Purely on the rarity of energy alone hydrogen makes little sense.
Another assumption you make is that the material shortage isn't an issue for hydrogen. It is an issue. FCEV's use a boatload. Not only because they essentially are EV's (the fuelcell can't "spike" as hard as a battery can, so every FCEV has a battery to boot, which albeit smaller, is still sizeable), but also because the fuel cell has a lot of rare, expensive materials in it. Heck, it has platina as a frigging consumable.
Considering you can't get 700 bar of hydrogen on your driveway, but you can get AC current which you can easily load balance on top of it, and battery chemistries are not only diverse but constantly evolving (energy density doubled, and LFP is a no-cobalt viable technology already), and considering "vroom" even for hydrogen makes no sense... I'd say hydrogen and sustainable have no mix in personal vehicles.
Toyota: WE MUST BURN SOMETHING !
Funny!! I think the engine development teams are feeling the heat from the electric powertrain teams, No pistons, No catalytic converters, No valves, No fuel pumps or injectors, some with no transmissions…, The winner is electric!
Wrong. Toyota: we are trying 3 different routes at the same time because no one else is exploring them!
Toyota already has hybrids and it's pushing battery chemistry forward that will eventually result in solid state batteries, something that it, unlike Tesla, will be able to disseminate widely. It's also one of the few automakers working on fuel cells, which will arguably supersede both batteries and internal combustion engines even when taking emissions into account.
Due to embodied emissions of production, battery EVs have higher life cycle emissions unless they charge from electric grids served primarily by nuclear or hydroelectic power. Even with so-called "renewable" grids, the emissions are produced by backup gas turbines. The end result is that unless a BEV is charged from a low emission grid it will also have a lifetime that is high emission eventually. It's one of the reasons why an electric car is greener when running in one of the Scandinavian countries, because that cross-country grid has a backbone of hydroelectricity from Norway, nuclear power from Sweden and wind power from Denmark. But it's not so green when running in California which burns and fracks gas for most of its energy.
Arguably, the lowest emission vehicle possible is an ammonia fuel cell vehicle using ammonia produced by electricity from a nuclear and hydroelectric grid. That vehicle will be low emissions in operation and embodied in production and disposal. And it would be more fully recyclable, than the carbon fibre composite fuel tanks a hydrogen fuelled vehicle would be. Right now composites are just dumped in landfill, something that Denmark and its kilotons (and in a decade, a megaton) of wind turbine blades are finding out to be a bit of an issue.
MONEY 🤣🤣
@@SyntheticFuture They're too late tbh, the worlds set on electrification by 2030. They and other manufacturers got too comfortable and lazy to innovate when there was still time
that gasoline idea sound pretty cool, not heavy, a lot of energy in small space
the power curve on gas vs hydrogen is totally different, i really am just guessing a hydrogen would make insane power at insane RPM, so push that engine to 14,000 RPM on a dyno ?
You can't just decide to push an engine to 14,000 rpm. Go turn a wrench
That pollution though. And the stink is bad, plus that obnoxious starting sound, rough feel when driving, and not all functions available unless the engine is running, oh yeah and you can't drive or run the engine indoors either. Hmm. Maybe not so good.
@@Walkeranz it is a small displacement 3 cylinder, right? almost a motorcycle engine . shorten the stroke too
@@benjamind7290 Nah doesn't smell, pollution is NBD, sound is great, rough feel only if you drive a shitbox, and why would you want to run functions indoors or when the car isn't on.
I think we all know companies will find a way around all these problems and challenges
Great video as always..
Thanks for sharing
i hope mazda tries to make a hydrogen rotary race car. that would be so cool to see
I believe there is research done that showed hydrogen combined with gasoline EDIT:(2-10% combined). It is the most beneficial air- dual fuel ratio that had least amount emissions while getting an evened out and faster burn to ignite all of the fuel before it exhausts. I believe this was done In a rotary.
Are you saying that because you just thought it would be a good idea and do not know about H2 rotary engines, or because you know that Mazda has made rotaries that run on H2 before?
Mazda did make a hydrogen powered RX8 race back when RX8's where new. You could buy in Japan only a duel fuel rx8 and it worked really well actually
Woahhhhhhhh. SO THERE'S HOPE?
The rotary engine works really well with hydrogen because the inlet combustion and exhaust all occur in different areas of the chamber unlike a piston engine which all occurs in the same place in the cylinder
Had to read the JEURC paper for my dissertation, I feel that pain.
This is Excellent news. I have always wondered why no-one was trying to run Hydrogen in a combustion engine. Thanks for the info.
Peter Ross the impediments which the oil giants have been putting on hydrogen...and electric...vehicles over the last 100 years is absolutely mind-blowing.
In an interview on of the Toyota’s engineer mentioned the whole thing can be scrapped but they wanted to give it a try at the endurance race, Toyota opened the door so it’ll be interesting where it goes from here
Toyota had prepared lean-burn engines as an alternative to catalytic convertors….the precious metals market ensured govts ignored them and introduced the legislation that guaranteed them a huge income and a superb technology got buried. Battery industry are doing the same right now to petroleum products and will destroy their main green competitor hydrogen too.
@Alfred Wedmore Lean burn spark ignition is great for economy and mitigating HC and CO but it does nothing good for NOx. Back when those engines were developed this was ok because the NOx emissions limits were relatively high. Once the requirements for NOx emissions became more strict it became impossible to meet them with lean burn engines, stoichiometric mixture and a 3-way cat was the best approach. As an aside, some modern automotive engines do use lean burn under certain conditions, it's just not applicable across the entire load/speed range.
Just to prove the point, diesels are intrinsically lean burn and thus can't use a 3-way cat. Initially this was allowed for by giving them looser NOx limits (and tighter HC and CO limits, which could be met using an oxidation catalyst) but these days they need the much maligned EGR and SCR systems to meet their NOx limits. A lean burn spark ignition engine would need the same equipment, though depending on the design it might be able to dispense with the DPF that diesels need to prevent soot emissions.
@@nerd1000ify This person spreads truth instead of conspiracy theories. There are plenty of real live conspiracies, no need to go looking so hard for them.
@Alfred Wedmore Wrong. The cats are there to protect the environment. All the sensors and the computers in your car are there to protect your cats! Why? Because the catalytic converter is your last line of defense against the harmful gasses that will destroy your planet.
@Alfred Wedmore Sorry buddy, between you and the environmental nuts out there, I'll stick with them.
Hydrogen ICE:
-Vroom sounds
-Manual trans
-fast refuel
-powered by explosions
Electric
- silent
-no manual
-slow charging
-not powered by explosions
I hope the downsides of hydrogen ICE get sorted
Hydrogen refueling as it exists now is not fast
You mean the tendency to explode? 🤔
@@thewoode1050 Compressing takes time. My CNG car used to "charging" 30-40 minutes if compressor on filling station was weak. And CNG have only 200 bar, not 700.
Vroom sounds and heat is energy escaping from your ICE without doing any usable work.
@@GgDBXS No, I was referring to the tendency of Hydrogen to form very explosive mixtures with air. So a small leak and very tiny spark can lead to a proper explosion
That was awesome. Well done!
Bill Wilhem a mechanical engineer in Wollongong, NSW, Australia has already accomplished this. He has a car that is powered by hydrogen!
I recently saw a video about JCB in England, they have been experimenting with hydrogen combustion engines in their construction vehicles. From what I saw , they have basically redesigned the cylinder heads for their Diesel engines, and they can now run on hydrogen!
Well I spoke to a JCB engineer in the beginning of Nov 2021 directly involved in the battery section of JCB and stated their hydrogen direct injection engine isn't real viable due to the huge amount of fuel required, however their Fuel Cell is very efficient, using 80ltr of hydrogen for 8 hours of work on a 16 tonne excavator but that's not JCB system and the cost of the system was huge, at least the cost of the excavator! So they are actually going down the battery route but cant tell anyone as they get huge grants from the UK government
That was a uncritical puff piece for JCB.
JCB also make battery powered diggers that make sense. Incresingly, these quiet diggers will be required for night works in residential areas.
@@tatradak JCB has had a battery digger for a year now.
@@nordic5490 JCB said that small excavators are a better fit for batteries because most of the small excavators are not used for more than 4 hours in a day. The use of batteries in large excavators is not cost-effective or even feasible at this time.
The 20 ton excavator it's not viable in it's presentation , behind it there is a £150.000 container ( the with the same colours as the excavator) filled with hydrogen and a built in pump that is barely able to sustain the refill for that single excavator for half a day work.
The developing of that engine is just free publicity as it's 100% funded by the government.
Right now I’m putting all my faith on Toyota more than any other thing in existence
Isnt audi working on a special fuel too. Not hydrogen, but some kind of special gasoline
Bad idea
And Porsche
@@whynot1749 Porsche is building a Efuel production in Chile
@@whynot1749 isn’t Porche too
Thank you for in detail data ,the math and clear easy understand explanation. Keep up the good work. 👍 🙂
I have a Ph.D in Mech.E and have worked for a big 3 automaker. The issue with H2 isn't what goes on in a system confined to a vehicle. The main issue is the thermodynamic and economic challenge of producing, distributing, and safely storing H2. Only the production of low emissions energy with a net cost benefit will enable mass adoption of H2 for transportation.
Can’t you just use water in a tank?
@@isaacmattz204 Thermodynamically if the idea is to reduce carbon emissions, no. The energy required to produce H2 on board a vehicle would be far more useful than using the H2 through a fuel cell or ICE. Google the 2nd law of thermodynamics, it's one of the "best hits" of human understanding.
Great explanation. The drawbacks of hydrogen were looked into years ago. The fuel cost alone will deter people from buying a hydrogen car. Then you have the massive infrastructure cost.
Hydrogen use with fuel cell engines is the only absolute solution though. It may be expensive right now; but much better choice than ruining the atmosphere and ruining the Earth. Its emission is water !
@@gokcan83 It is better but better doesn't mean it is viable. Do you think people will be motivated to buy a hydrogen powered car when they learn about the expenses involved? Unless something can be done to reduce cost to a reasonable level this won't take off.
@@abinmmj the US Govt, federal and state, subsidizes the oil and gas industry to the tune of over US$20 BILLION per year. Transfer those subsidies to the hydrogen infrastructure instead, and hydrogen becomes a viable fuel option.....
@@abinmmj Hydrogen will be use for all of Transportation, including semi-trucks, airplanes, cruise ships and powering houses. Don't worry Hydrogen is not going anywhere now
@@ianchandley So you say. Devil's in the details (and line items).
For old cars, the best option is LNG or LPG. That would lower Co2 emissions by 20%-50%, relatively cheap installation, and proven technology. I drive on LPG for decades. Driving is 50% cheaper ROI for installation is from 8-18 months.
cng is dirt cheap on the markets. As low as 10c per kg. But that low price for now doesnt reflect low price on the pump stations.
It comes with its own issues. If you simply convert a petrol car to CNG, it's only a matter of time until the valves/seats get toasted. Factory converted CNG cars all have hardened valves/seats. CNG was also heavily subsidized in my area, but once that stopped, CNG cars just faded away after a while (I drove CNG cars for years, btw).
@@prerunnerwannabe With modern (last ten years) installations that are not an issue, they can be programmed with a few percent of petrol added in the mixture for protecting injectors, and valves. For very sensitive and complex motors lubrication is added in intake. In my country is very popular almost every station has LPG.
Converting to CNG is actually a super popular option in India, there are a bunch of companies that will convert your car to also have a CNG tank, and it's pretty convenient because we have a lot of CNG stations as well since most autos also run on CNG (auto: tuk-tuks or rickshaws, basically a three-wheeled vehicle, that is a common mode of public transportation).
The valves/seats problems comes from keeping gasoline as additional fuel ( Bi-fuel option) . The gasoline has much lower octane rating than LPG and CNG so it do not allow increasing of compression ratios which increase the speed of burning . In South Korea pure LPG cars are used with liquid injection of LPG which even increase the power if compared to equivalent gasoline engine .
The measures to convert gasoline to pure LPG or CNG engines are :
1 . Increasing the compression ratio 12:1 14:1
2. Using high energy ignition systems 100mJ and up per spark discharge and use of double tips iridium spark plugs .
3. Remapping the ignition and fuel maps of the ECU .
4. Replacing the exhaust valves seats with tool steel made ones and if possible use of sodium filled exhaust valves .
There was experimental fuel mix mainly CNG with small amount of hydrogen. Hydrogen burns very fast , ignites by much lower energy spark discharge and accelerate the rate of burning of the mixture so it is another way to solve the problem with slower CNG burning speed.
Well Done, Thank You! This was a Great Presentation. A lot of valuable information in a short concise overview/class. Yes, sometimes like getting a drink of water through a Firehose. I am subscribed and will be coming back to your channel.
In the eighties high school I went to converted Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engines to run on propane, butane, hydrogen we even ran one off of acetylene.
This is the most concise explanation of the use of hydrogen in engines and in fuel cells I've ever seen. I've had a vague concept of this topic but this video brings it sharply in focus. Thanks!
One problem though... This is not fuel cell technology. 🙂 This is just the classic, barbarian way of exploding things inside an internal combustion engine in order to produce mechanical energy. It "just" replaces gasoline/diesel/ethanol/whatever with hydrogen.
Fuel cell technology is about reacting hydrogen and oxygen in an elegant, controlled manner, in order to produce electricity on demand which, in turn, powers an electric engine.
@@prafuitu barbaric?. If the goal is to avoid burning fossil fuels this is the best solution. Barbaric is the mining used to get Lithium to produce batteries.
@@rnp9876 I was referring to the method used to convert fuel into energy, be it diesel, hydrogen or whatever.
"Exploding" hydrogen in an ICE to produce mechanical power has roughly 30% efficiency while converting that same hydrogen into electricity in a fuel cell vehicle is, again, roughly, 60% efficient.
That's why I called ICEs barbaric in comparison to fuel cells. BEVs (battery electric vehicles) were never mentioned by me, so your argument about lithium mining is irrelevant to this discussion.
It's barbaric in the same way frantically hitting the drums is barbaric compared to gently drawing the bow across a violin's strings in order to produce sounds.
@@prafuitu EVs are not the solution. Fuel cell, probably and they are much better than battery only car, in my opinion.
@@rnp9876 Fuel cell vehicles *are* EVs, but again, you're missing the point that hydrogen ICE (presented in this video) is not the same as hydrogen fuel cells, what the top comment claims.
Anyway, to play your game:
It looks to me that you read somewhere that Li mining is bad and from that you derived that EVs are bad when you clearly don't know what an EV is.
To claim right now that EVs are bad just because the batteries technology is not optimal (when we're clearly in its early days and it has already hugely improved compared to just a few years back) is as shortsighted as saying that the ICE was bad compared to a steam engine because its efficiency was horrendous in the beginning.
Things are improving at a rapid pace, motors are becoming more efficient, alternative ways of electricity production are in development or deployed every day (check the ITER project to see the mother of all energy plants), new energy storage solutions are researched all over the globe, including alternative battery chemistries like Iron oxide or Aluminium/air ...
EVs might not be the present, but they sure are the future in either BEV form, FCEV form or any other form that we haven't even dreamt of yet!
Ever since I saw and heard that racecar hydrogen powered corolla I started waiting for your video
I always thought the only bi-product would be water. Very interesting vid dude!
It's insane to think that it's only been like 4 ish months since this video and Mercedes is already making a prototype for a hydrogen semi truck.
Hydrogen might make more sense in a semi-truck because you have so much more available space to store hydrogen.
Also, the added weight is much less of an issue in a large vehicle.
MB already had this but as mentioned, where's the fuel infrastructure? Not that this should inhibit ownership.
The Mercedes hydrogen truck is using a fuel cell to power electric motors, not an ICE engine as in this video. They have gone for liquid hydrogen to get more in the tank and are using double skinned tanks with vacuum between them to keep the hydrogen at cryogenic temperatures.
@@franklinblunt69 I believe the more relevant question is will there be a hydrogen infrastructure? If there will be then that's fine. The current power grid would need to be revamped in order to support an overhaul of the transit system to fully electric.
@@silo3com there could easily be. I feel like this TH-cam channel fanboys over EVs
At least they’re trying. ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’.
Good luck ‘trying’ against the laws of physics.
@@duffgaryduff Hydrogen engine doesn't need physic law to win. People need to expose the fact that electric car is dangerous and doesn't make sense on a massive scale. Hydrogen engine doesn't win on science alone. Media and acceptance of petrolhead win hydrogen engine
just make an EV….
@@davidkaplan5517 they already are making hybrids and are making EVs soon. They just want to find other ways of carbon neutrality which everyone should do instead of hopping on the bandwagon because it’s cool. Lmao
@Duncan Macleod lol yes. Let’s build warehouses full of pressurized hydrogen and put giant tanks of it in cars…. Sounds really safe and efficient.
Oh yes and with all of those hydrogen filling stations in my town I will be set.
😂😂😂😂😂😂 Liberals will tax us higher and pay for it.
Hydrogen tax, wait for it 🚫🌈
@@HondaTrumpAi do you even know what "liberal" means? They can only be against taxes. Maybe you meant leftists or socialists etc.
By your logic we shouldn’t do nothing? Glad you aren’t in control
@@riba2233 Well there's no functional liberal party currently. It seemingly being wholly roped along by the leftists like it's would-be constituents. At the moment, at least to the casual observer and in the pragmatic sense, it seems the terms are interchangeable.
Water .uses water
It's so mind-boggling that Toyota is still researching hydrogen engines while the other major manufacturers are going electric. Does Toyota plan to develop an entire system of hydrogen fueling stations that can only be utilized by it's vehicles?
Electric is better in every way, but the fuel is an absolute deal breaker. I have 2 chargers in my garage. There are zero hydrogen fueling stations in Ohio, so the only way you can get around in a hydrogen fueled vehicle is if you have a towtruck drag you around. And hydrogen fueling station's aren't cheap. Level 2 chargers are.
Toyota really need to wake up and smell the coffee. At the moment they are on a one way trip to dodo-land
Hydrogen 👍👍👍 absolutely no pollution, electric hurts the environment because of battery disposal and coal to produce electric, and yes electric that's produced by nuclear creates nuclear waste. Electric isn't any better 👎👎👎👎.
@@coach2208Hydrogen isn't an energy source, it's an energy carrier. Most hydrogen today is made my natural gas reforming, which is an energy losing process which makes CO2. If you use renewables to make the hydrogen, you will go less than half as far as if you charged a BEV. Big car batteries are getting reused, then recycled. Nobody is disposing of them. Some battery recyclers are even recycling old cell phone and laptop batteries now. Coal is 20% of generation, and dropping. Every year more coal plants are shut down, and none are built. Most new generation in the US is wind and solar now. Still a little gas. Google eia power monthly, the maps, and Chapter 1. 1.1. and 1.1.A
@@fjalics wind energy cost to much to maintain, and there isn't enough of it,, I don't think it's a great source of energy,, The first thing they need to do is update the electric grid if everyone is going to rely on electric.
EXCELLENT VIDEO ABOUT HYDROGEN BURNING IN ICE ENGINE. PROBLEM LIKE NO AND CO2 WERE NEVER TALKED IN OTHER VIDEO. GOOD JOB KEEP IT UP.
The more work goes into every step of the process, the cheaper and more effective it gets.
The early days of gasoline, diesel and even electric were not pretty. Took time to get to where it is today, and be as cost-efficient as it is, at scale.
The important thing is to take steps to make that progress, and innovation will follow.
100%. Scale is the biggest factor in price
well i hope this will help save the planet !!🤣
The efficiency will not change though. These are theoritical maximums. You will never be able to gain more efficiently from combustion. Physics says NO!!
Plus why lose half of all your energy turning a transmission, driveshaft and differential when you have a much more efficient example: a hydrogen fuel cell that powers a motor right at the wheel station.
This technology makes no sense.
It is just a pipe dream being pursued by existing engine manufacturers like Cummins to keep themselves in the game.
The writing is in the wall. They need to embrace change and research sensible technologies that have potential, instead of trying to adapt old technology.
@@bubba842 Why can't all these technologies exists simultaneously and then the consumer can make the decision for themselves regarding which type of car they want to buy? They just completed a 24 hour race with the car so the tech makes sense, its just not what you want in your car. Why do you care where Toyota puts their money anyways? If you want the most efficient vehicle, you can go buy that vehicle. Enough with this holier than thou stuff about sensibility and embracing change though, its too cliche.
@@collinhruschka8441 it's called business pal no holier than thou sensibilities. All these technologies will exist to an extent, but for the purpose they are required in.
We will not have multiple technologies competing. Hydrogen fuel cells are cheaper and a lot more efficient than this technology. The vast majority of people will go with what's cheaper and is more efficient. Unfortunately neither of those technologies have an edge on Battery EVs. Yes hydrogen fuel cells will have their place in long distance and off road technologies, but every day people who commute will be driving EVs.
There is room for this in the future in very niche areas, but those areas will not produce the revenue for a mass rollout of this technology to the mainstream, as it's just recycled old technology that will never get past the physics and downsides of combustion.
The infrastructure is not in place for this technology and probably never will be. It will use twice as much hydrogen compared to a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle and will have a tank twice the size of today's gasoline fuel tanks. With that it will cost twice as much to fill up.
I don't see any positives for the average person in using this technology. The only positives will be for legacy engine manufacturers, trying to hold on to a dying industry, hence why they are pushing it.
The nature of the business environment will not allow multiple different technologies to exist all at once.
There are many examples of this in the past. AC vs DC electricity, VHS vs Betamax and HD DVD vs Blu Ray.
A standalone entity will survive, but unfortunately it will not be this hydrogen combustion.
I mean, there’s even more problems with storage: Hydrogen is such a small molecule it diffuses through _anything,_ so while you’re just sitting there, your car is leaking fuel. Also, filling it up is a huge issue, because of multiple reasons:
• it‘s hard to get such a high pressure connection system both reliable, safe and easy enough for regular people to use (the part that is the nozzle on the fuel hose today-in a hydrogen car, it has to be a leak proof interconnect that can hold the 10k PSI, have high pressure valves on both ends of the connection and can still be easily connected/disconnected hundreds of thousands of times),
• it‘s hard to store for the station (needs huge tanks and they are, again, leaky),
• and on top of it all, it‘s ridiculously easy to ignite compared to gas or diesel, so if there IS a leak somewhere, the smallest spark can make your station into a Hindenburg reenactment.
Because of those problems, scientists are working on trying to store it as easy to divide molecules which will make it a bit denser but safer and easier to store.
We have hydrogen tanks that do no leak. Not sure where your getting that
Hydrogen is not exactly terribly dangerous. Diesel and gasoline they are at leaking point. LPG butane is kinda heavy and sticking around in corners.
Hydrogen is lite and really wants to escape upwards. So if you have small continues leak hydrogen is nowhere to be found, let alone burn. If you have big sudden leak than few seconds later it's all gone. It's climbing at few meters per second rate. Just don't have trapping area and no worries.
While H2 Permeation is an issue, it is very time dependent; unless you're trying to store a fixed volume of gas for a long time, the amount lost to permeation would be miniscule when compared to the volume which is used. E10 gasoline suffers from similar long-term storage issues due to water absorption, so the permeation issue is less of a concern than you might think. The bigger issue is closely related, which is maintaining a leak-tight H2 management system (since H2 is far more prone to leaks in fittings and pumps than other compressed gasses).
As for your other issues with the gas handling challenges, there is actually good news: most of those issues have already been addressed by previous compressed gas handling solutions. Compressed natural gas in particular has set most of the engineering standards for dealing with safe and repeatable solutions for the transfer and storage of a compressed flammable gas, so most of the engineering best practices and standard operating procedures for users are already mature.
@@KendallPhillips89 He is just trying to show how big of a nerd he is.
I work at a Cl2 plant. H2 is a by product of CL2 production. Most of it gets compressed and vented to atmosphere because there is such a small market for it.
I also saw a video, Harry of Harry’s Garage visited the JCB R&D facility and they claimed combustion hydrogen engines and fuel as extremely viable. Obviously infrastructure and making it work on cars are real issues but it sure sounded a lot better then EV to me!!
When I was 7/8 years old in the 90's I still remember my technology teacher talking about the possibility of using H1 as fuel source in engines. Amazing.
you were learning technology in the 1st/2nd grade?
@@arianitonline8748 3rd grade, we learned to use tools and build/make things mostly (like recycled paper).
You probably meant H2 I'm assuming; hydrogen is diatomic
I love next gen technologies that involve even more moving parts!
Only thing missing is fuses placed in the center of the engine.
Right. I just did a timing job on my Ford 281ci. A lot of work and moving parts. How about a cylinder and some spark with electronic timing?
More moving parts = more jobs 😄
And also use a fuel which isn't actually renewable (electrolysis isn't cost effective, almost all hydrogen is made from oil), green (still has emissions) and in general is just a campaign by fossil fuel and engine manufacturers to avoid becoming irrelevant.
@@squelchedotter that’s nice, thank you for sharing how you feel Thomas
The combustion engine must live on !
As i'm sure you are aware electrolysis produces both oxygen and hydrogen, I wonder if its possible to make an engine that runs by combusting the mixture directly. For example you have an O2 and H tank in the car and mix them in the cylinder at the correct ratio. Chances are I'm talking nonsense but just a wild idea.
What about hydrogen combustion for HGVs, trains, boats and tractors etc. I can see small cars going the electric route but not heavy vehicles. I am impressed by the work JCB are doing here.
I had the same thought - JCB is on the forefront of Hydrogen-Combustion engines for use in heavy machinery
@@Kezenmacher J C Backwards 😁
Double the cost for an EV Car? Very funny!
@@Kezenmacher JCB is garbage.
Kawasaki has marine hydrogen engine for ships. In fact, they have 2 operational liquified hydrogen carrier so far. Their target is 80 ships.
I'm not letting "HCCI is difficult to control" count, because people have been cursing common rail injection as well, and now it's a staple in diesels. It's all a matter of development. I'm proud of Toyota for trying stuff here.
I think it's because the properties of hydrogen are very different from diesel fuel.
@@UnnamedThe Ah, I see your angle now. Good point.
That's fair, but this stuff has been researched for decades, and still not really any commercial applications. Lots of companies (VW, Mercedes, Nissan, Mazda, Honda, Hyundai, GM, and on and on) have put effort into research/development, but decades later still not large scale applications. Mazda seems closest with their SPCCI engines, but even that has been delayed for US release.
@@EngineeringExplained BEV's where also developed for decades before they became viable. And i'm sure we all know how long safe nuclear power plants too to develop. Long development time does not necessarily mean the potential can't be reached.
Thanks for ruining my day? I was all excited at how wonderful hydrogen powered IC cars would be
The reason why we need such a high pressure with hydrogen is because hydrogen's critical point is just 33K and therefore cannot be liquid at room temperature.
Wonder how come and we do not use water at 700 Bar and when needed, heating it up at room temperature to allow a high pressure thermolysis to take place, and then through a separation membrane using hydrogen and oxygen to a fuel cell to get the power we need. That should be much less complicate.
See “Harry’s Garage” interview with JCB & development of hydrogen engines 👍🏻
Yes, great. I can always commute in a 25 ton excavator. Not sure how long it would take but what an entrance and you can make your own parking space.
They left out all disadvantages. Fuel Cell equals less parts and maintance, less profits
@@arnefines2356 and a hugely expensive battery which isn’t getting cheaper any time soon due to the rare Earth metal resource constraint
@@baronvonteuchter1412 Not getting cheaper? Rare earth metals are in fewer and fewer batteries.
@@arnefines2356 of course they did they don't know how to make them. All they know is ice so they'll, lose their company chasing it.
It makes sense if you convert the power grid to nuclear power.
Here in the UK, the planned conversion to electric vehicles will require 10 additional power stations. Plans are to build more wind farms.
However, the grid infrastructure is a far more serious problem and will require extensive upgrades. As recharging becomes faster, charging areas will be supplied from the 11'kV high voltage grid, rather than the low voltage sectors.
At the moment, the government are promoting electric vehicles, since the change over to regenerative AC motors on the railways, along with LED lighting and induction cooker hobs has reduced the grid load quite considerably.
In the future, the government expects to slow down the sale of electric vehicles to keep the electricity requirement in balance.
@@wilsjane Sounds like ride sharing, mass transit and reduced car ownership with Uber, Lyft et c will get a boost. As may thorium reactors for electricity. If personal ICE cars were closed course only, humankind will be playing more video games and gain 100 lbs per person. Not to mention noise, electrical leakage, and fire risk from 11kv lines. Yuk.
@@wilsjane The UK had planned on Ireland to offer green energy but that might go to France now. However the hydrogen dream is not over in the UK, they will be injecting hydrogen into the gas supply network and rolling out hydrogen ready gas burners for home heating. How will they make the hydrogen? probably wind farms at sea that convert the sea directly to hydrogen and dont need any expensive batteries.
@@geroutathat That makes a great deal of sense, avoiding the losses of conveying the electricity inland from offshore wind farms. The oxygen produced by splitting the water will be a valuable biproduct.
Prior to the discovery of natural gas in the 1960s, town gas in the UK was mainly hydrogen, with a small percentage of carbon monoxide. It was produced by heating coal in a vertical retort and the coke then went on to fire the power stations.
The one problem is that hydrogen has a lower calorific value than natural gas, so some upgrades may be needed to the distribution pipework. This is because following the changeover to natural gas, the crumbling cast iron Victorian pipework in the cities was used as ducts to install the natural gas pipes, thus reducing their size by up to 50%.
We may also see a return of the famous gas holders that were used to smooth out the peaks in demand. Possibly the hydrogen will be supplied at higher pressure than previously, avoiding pipework upgrades.
Hydrogen to directly power vehicles is a non starter, simply because it does not liquify. This results in huge energy wastage in compressing the gas for distribution. From production to final use in a vehicle, around 70% of the energy is lost as a result of compression for distribution and into the vehicles fuel tanks.
@@wilsjane EV's are the scam of the century.
They could not be more harmful to the environment.
Countless tons of rare, toxic metals must be strip mined and processed with vast quantities of toxic chemicals in order to manufacture batteries which will become yet another source of various toxic waste streams. Even if these waste batteries are "recycled", doing so will require more toxic chemicals and huge quantities of energy.
The mining and processing of these rare, toxic materials requires vast quantities of energy in remote areas with little to no electrical infrastructure.
We currently do not have enough electricity production in places like California to keep up with the current demand that does not include having EV's replacing gasoline and diesel vehicles. Already high electricity prices will skyrocket as more EV's hit the roads.
Hydrogen is a much better path forward.
Solid explanation of why fuel cells are a no brainer over burning the hydrogen in a combustion engine.
Thank you for your video and your quick comparison. However, why don't you talk about costs comparing a fuel cell and a H2ICE?? It is further cheaper to adapt an ICE to work with H2 than using fuel cells currently.
There are a lot of scientific papers researching on H2ICE and it is not difficult. My PhD thesis is based on comparing H2, CH4 and coke oven gas in a port-fuel SI engine, showing good efficiency and low emissions. It's true that there's still much work to do, but with your general comments, you just do a simplified comparison, taking down the work of many people during years. And you only take as a reference the job of a company on a single car, instead of referencing scientific papers.
On the other hand, do you think that taking a single quote of a report is enough to say that H2 has no role in the future energy system? Try to store electricity during months with huge batteries at the same price compared to H2 using salt caverns or think the price of the reinforcement of the electrical grid in the future as the electrical demand increases, compared to using H2 pipelines which is way cheaper, as seen in many papers. Many scientists and countries are investing in H2 for many reasons, not for just a report or a single quote.
I just ask to avoid giving quick general conclusions which influence people, instead of providing information to encourage people to inform and learn more. Technology can develop and improve very quickly, as seen during the last century.
Sorry for the length of my opinion and I don't want to offend anyone!
Thank you again for your videos!
Would you may be have a link to share to have a look to you thesis?
I would also be very interested to read your paper.
How is the metal fatigue issue with hydrogen ?
Please do a video on your research. It sounds very interesting
very cool vid that close to my heart as I am doing a master thesis on an ammonia-based spark-ignition engine.
I would love for this tech to develop enough to overcome these challenges.
Random af question: Want some science-channel to check out, cause the
learning never ends? I got some.
Why? What's so exciting about hydrogen? You can't just stick a hose up in the air and extract it.
@@mjoet731 the attraction to hydrogen is that its the most common element on the planet and we spend our entire life surrounded by it. It presents a 100 percent renewable source of energy that would never be exhausted and could potentially be produced wherever it needs to be used eliminating all the expense of transportation and distribution. Hydrogen on demand.
The way this guy presents everything is made to convince the listener that it looks promising but somehow it’s just not possible, sorry!
The reality is he is a paid detractor as many people on you tube are. There are many technologies that are possible for the betterment of mankind but some people wish to control the world and if a technology creates freedom for others out of their control then they find every way possible to stop it. One of the most effective ways is to hijack a movement or technology and redirect to more controllable circumstances. It allows for the masses to believe something never went anywhere because it was just inefficient or “uneconomical”. When the truth is it allowed to much freedom from the control of those who benefit from manipulating the population.
Now if they could find a way to profit more off of hydrogen than oil or electric then we will be using hydrogen in the future. But until they find the perfect way to keep control while allowing people to use hydrogen. We won’t see anything but misdirection and manipulation of statistics.
Excellent presentation. Very informative, thank you.
Very interesting, but have just one question. With your knowledge, have you ever made or converted an engine to efficiently run?
One quart of oil consumption every 3000 miles?
Me: laughs in toyota
I hate to break it to you
Everyone forgets bmw did this with the E38 7series. It had a hydrogen powered V12.
Exactly my point and I believe angelina jolie had one too 😂
BMW has the best electric cars too, well some say.
Yup. The engine was even capable of running either gasoline, or hydrogen. It's only real issue was that it wasn't really tuned for power. That, and lack of hydrogen infrastructure.
I think the hydrogen storage problem is solved. We can used doped Graphitic Carbon Nitride, in which you can store 10% hydrogen gas by weight. Creating this doped graphitic Carbon Nitride is also quite cheap and easy.
However, your description of the Hydrogen Combustion engine challenge seems quite daunting. Just hope that we can resolve this innovatively in the near future.
Thanks for the education. Good video.
I'd love to see an efficiency comparison between Toyota and Mazda's hydrogen engines
Going to assume Toyota will be better
@@EliteNK same. Unless proven wrong, of course.
The first combustion engines were also extremely inefficient.
Over time, ICE H2 engines will become much more efficient.
ICE engine, due to friction, cannot be as efficient as electric motors, I can't help feeling all this effort is misplaced, if you want powerful cars, work on electric motors.
@@chrisp7839 electric cars catch fire, their batteries wear out and are hazardous waste.
@@livinincalifornia ICE vehicles also catch fire, wear out, and are hazardous waste
@@chrisp7839 ICE fires are easily put out. Battery fires burn hot and fast. The lithium in the batteries is extremely toxic and damaging to the environment way more so than an alumnium engine and gasoline. Electric cars are charged using natural gas and coal so they aren't even environmentally friendly at all
@@livinincalifornia Both Hydrogen and BEV card are electric, so the same is true of both, but 3 times as much electricity is used to power a fuel cell car.
Let’s not forget all the maintenance benefits have in EV’s vs any type of combustion engine. Oil changes. Heat. Wear and tear. Transmissions. NONE of which are an issue with an EV.
JCB are doing it too, Harry's garage made a great video all about it
Damn I’ve never seen someone do so much chemistry calculations with imperial units. I’m not even mad, that’s impressive
Can’t wait to see the tuning potential this hydrogen combustion engine has🔥
Just imagine a car like the bmw hydrogen 7 (6.0L V12 390 Nm, 191 kW) but more performance oriented
@@martini380 To bring back these large N/A engines with Hydrogen combustion would be awesome.
Guys. Don't forget that hydrogen may be clean in the burn, but it's polluting in the making.
So to have a middle way and not be too crazy would be the reasonable way to go.
@@boboutelama5748 everything has some level of pollution. EVs create plenty of environmental issues themselves. The idea is to pollute less than we are now.
@@user-gm4kv2my4u Exactly
Fascinating explanation, really enjoyed this! I used to think hydrogen fuel was a no-brainer for sustainability but it's not quite that easy. As usual, thank you for the awesome video! Nicely executed, well articulated.
It's no brainer if you have no brains. Why waste most of the power produced on an inefficient process that roduces an inefficient fuel which which produces insufficient power? Also, you have to carry around two heavy H2 tanks containing the gas at such high pressures that a smile accident can cause them to both explode due to pressure and ignition. Definite death. Even a simple leak in any of the piping is enough to cause trouble, which is bound to haen due to the excessively corrosive property of H2.
Actually you don't need to store hydrogen in tanks. They have developed technology that is far safer. It's been around for quite a while actually. But yes if you just got out of a time machine from the year 2000, then that would make sense.
@@Berkhoi Apart from the points that you have raised, the real problem is that the energy used to compress the hydrogen alone can exceed the calorific value of the fuel. This makes the whole concept virtually pointless. Needless to say, I would not want to live too near to a filling station and tankers delivering hydrogen compressed to an excess of 10,000'psi would be travelling bombs, even without any fire.
Back in WW2, when fuel was short here in the UK, many delivery vans ran on coal gas (97% hydrogen). However, a large leather bladder was fitted onto their roof, to allow direct filling from the town gas supply only pressurised by the gasometer's.
The natural coal tar mix improved combustion and lubrication, but the bladder was almost as large as the van, with a range of between 20 and 30 miles.
PS, the risk of combustion explosions with hydrogen is fairly low compared with LPG. Propane (which is heavier than air) pools and causes fire balls. while Methane diffuses and explodes. Both of these gasses have caused explosions after leaking into below ground sewers.
@@wilsjane the real problem is too many people and pop growth is rising exponentionally !@
Thanks for a very useful explanation!
What do you think of the viability of using ammonia as fuel as hydrogen can be extracted from this and is relatively easy to store compared to using compressed hydrogen.
MAN Diesel are looking into ammonia-powered engines for ships.
The fallout series solved all this year's ago. BRING ON NUCLEAR CARS
Went well for them, obviously!
@@FuncleChuck ah, you aren't a man of culture.
@@davidweikle9921 I was thinking if this keyboard warrior wanted a class a nuclear reactor built into his car.. Go thorium... He would get what he deserved...
the nuclear power would fuel an electric motor
Technically it would be possible easily. The problem is shielding. If you want it to build it to regulation, you would get a light tank, not a car. But if you only want it to be reasonably safe, it's probably possible.
Don't forget that some decades ago, some said Toyota was shooting their own foot investing in hybrid powertrains. Hydrogen powered cars, could be used in the future as a substitute to Diesel engines, or as a range extender. The Hydrogen combustion engines, could be applied in Motorsports too.
Yamaha and Toyota is also develop naturally aspirated v8 2UR-GSE hydrogen engine and it make 450hp @6,800rpm and 540n•m of torque @3,600rpm so it have same power as gasoline 2UR-GSE at slightly lower rpm with slightly more torque that mean your hydrogen engine is gonna feel stronger and better response, so power is not really problem anymore, So only problem with H2ICE for now is NOx emissions , Fuel consumption ,And reliability.
Aight, now we just gotta strap 2 bottles of NOS to it.