People do not talk about this show enough. It was beautiful. The episode called “A life in the Day” where Q and Elliot raised a family made my jaw drop. It changed my entire perception of how I live my life - that hasn’t happened to me since I watched The Good Place on NBC. The show is not perfect and veers away from the books in many ways but the world building is so enthralling. I met Lev Grossman once when he came to visit my university back in 2014. He was so chill and told me all about the different ideas he had used versus those he had dropped for the book. His process of creating a consistent magic system is top tier. Also this convo in the show will NEVER not be hilarious: “Why are you locked up?” “Because I killed all their trees.” “That’s it?” “They were magical talking trees.” “Wait, Fillory has talking trees?!” “Not anymore.” 🤣🤣🤣
Audiobooks on audible unabridged. If your a fan of the show and never dabled in the books complete the experience. Not a advertisement I got the books on audible after the beast nearly killed everybody the first time and the contrast and character fusions are interesting.
They are, literally, the only reason I kept watching past S3. This is the only show I've watched (at least in a very long time) where all of the main characters are just unlikeable, and seem to have no growth. Margot and Eliot though - beyond entertaining.
Sure, but they also suck and are always up their own asses. Look at how they treat their rule, and you see what's up, specifically how awful they behave with their subjects
“I am the hero of this goddamned story, Ember! Remember? And the hero gets the reward!” “No, Quentin,” the Ram said. “The hero pays the price.” -The Magician King
My pitch for most people who I think would actually enjoy the series is "Imagine if those desperate childhood yearnings of yours were true, magic was real and you were one of the special chosen few...but it didn't fix you. You were still you, and you were still miserable, and you still had to find your way through it." It might sound like a miserable way to recommend something, but when I was a teenager it was honestly comforting to have a book say "It's turtles all the way down, kid. People with magic would just have magic problems. You just deal with the hand you're dealt and take care of the people you can take care of." Also in the same line I actually like the show better than the book series, I like the direction they took with it.
"You were still you, and you were still miserable." Wow. That hurt. But probably the reason why it's so appealing to me yet so hard to watch. The fantasy SHOULD help but it doesn't because the reality of it all keeps slapping me in the face.
See, this was always my thing with fantasy - I was diagnosed as a type 1 diabetic at 7 years old, so my first question was (and still is) always 'But am I still diabetic?'
This show was everything for me, I hated how it ended 😔 but I'm still grateful for it. It mixed magic and school and relationships and fantasy in a way that i haven't seen ever, thank you for this.
The 3rd season of this show is genuinely one of the best seasons of TV I have ever watched and it will always hurt to know that the show couldn't manage to maintain that quality going forward.
Get woke, go broke. Season 4 and 5 went to $hit because they turned the injection of identity politics and intersectional feminism up to 11. It was always there, but they just couldn't help themselves. You can ignore it to some extent, but once you notice it, you can't un-notice it, and it becomes jarring to the point of unwatchability. This is a familiar pattern, and unfortunately, The Magicians was not immune.
I always felt that mounting the tension for a big epic reveal who turn out as very mundane and anticlimatic was perfectly in tune with the story, it break the mystic of magic, the old god, the librarian, showing them as dysfunctonal and whimsical as the human side.
I feel like you are assuming that Jane Chatwin was omnipotent, implying that she knew exactly what would happen to Julia and essentially had control over each loop when that is pretty explicitly not the case. Also younger Jane did know that her brother needed help and she was seeking answers and ways to help him for many years unsuccessfully and eventually was forced to choose prioritizing the world over him.
Similarly, I always assumed that the reason why she leaves them in the dark this time around is that in previous attempts, she HAS let them know what was going on (to different degrees), and they still failed.
Exactly. This is Timeline 40. FOURTY. I'm sure she tried big changes at first, and when Q and co kept 'stepping up' in a lot of timelines, she started changing things specifically with the group to see how the changes affected the timeline. I'm going on the basis that the time powers and the loop works like this: she can't change anything that's already happened, as shown by how she is actually an antagonist to her younger self, presumably to make herself stronger to become the Watcher Woman she needs to be; sort of a self fulfilling prophecy/paradox. She created the time loop that goes back to the same time every reset, and she can't go back further and create a different loop, only in her current time, hence why she can't go back and save her brother from the abuse. Now, my biggest point: The time loop canonically doesn't end the previous timeline, all of those worlds still exist and we get to see some. We see that in at least one, they DO defeat the Beast, but the fallout was so bad that Jane reset the loop anyway. Meaning, that if Jane hadn't been finally killed by the Beast in this timeline, she probably would've reset it after learning what her change this loop did to the group and Julia specifically. THAT'S my biggest sticking point on this narrative of Jane as an antagonist. She died in this loop, leaving no one left to reset it when, despite winning against the Beast, it still being a 'bad ending' which I fully believe she would've done.
The big secret could be suffering didn't exist. Pain. Hatred all that greed. A fight between the gods brought it fourth and the monster is a manifestation of that pain. So they locked it up but it still leaked into the world. The monster hates the gods because it can never feel joy, happiness or the absence of suffering. For it is suffering itself. And hopes that by killing the gods it will get something close to peace.
@@LukaWukaWatcherthank you for this comment. That makes the most sense. I had forgotten about there being a timeline where they defeated the beast and she still reset it.
This is an excellent video and I think you're right on with your analysis. The only thing you missed was how Julia had to earn magic where Quentin was just given access because misogyny. That wasn't it at all. The reason why Julia was given the boot and Quinton was allowed to enroll is because Julia was so ridiculously strong and so ridiculously good at Magic that Quintin ended up leaning on her as a crutch and never developed because she just acted as his sword and shield and brain and brawn. She was a genius, so much so that everyone leaned on her for a crutch and became stagnant. By denying Julia access to brake bills she was put in a situation that actually challenged her where she had to overcome adversity and things didn't come to her so easily and Quinton had to learn magic without his genius best friend carrying him on her back the entire time so it was her excellence not her gender that resulted in the circumstances she found herself in during the first season
@@casstom um no the reason why Julia was given the boot cause they were stuck in a time loop and the common denominator for the reset was Julia. Did you miss this part in the show cause even the principal explained this to her with an apology cause he had tried literally everything to stop the end each and every time but Julia's path always caused something go wrong BECAUSE she was so powerful
I don't think the auidence is supposed to laugh at Fen or this different culture. It's to show that the characters never consider Fillory and it's people as real. To them it is a story. Even when they are living in it it's not real to them, not fully. It's to show how they aren't really good people / self centered.
agree I think this creater would benefit from studying story, theme and narrative a bit more it would benefit their content and I think they’re good at it but they missed some nuance here
For real. I thought it was interesting that the Kings are never really good, just self-serving. To continue that for so long is a brave choice, I think, which keeps the characters in constant conflict... I both love it and hate it.
i was so pissed at the end of s4 when it aired that it took me like 3 years to get over it and finish the show. with distance, i wasn't as pissed at the death of quentin, although it still hurts
Honestly, though, Quentin was kinda just there. Like i never really grew to care for him. The show really didn't need him. Plus, im pretty sure that they killed him off because the actor wanted to leave.
@@aeas09 that’s fair, i liked him a lot, even more so on rewatches, he’s a different kind of protagonist, messy and often wrong, i liked that about him.
I still havent gone back. The absolute betrayal of his character was entirely too much. And then the gall to sing fucking take on me while burning his shit, and making no attempt to bring him back. Penny? Oh well have multiple episodes focused around his return from the dead. Quinton tho? Nah he can stay dead
Wow, you're so right about Fen. I didn't notice just how much she's gone through because I kept seeing it from the leads' perspective. Really makes you think
I just got done binging it night before last, and seeing it all so close together, it's very jarring. Fen began as a real, sympathetic character, then turned into a walking joke. Among my problems with the writing is this. Fen's development should have been important, but was shoved in the closet and only brought back as a plot point in a s5.
This is one of my favorite series of all time and it’s such a shame not many have seen it. Very grateful it went on for as many seasons as it did just with the smaller fan base. Bring it back!!
i found these books in middle school and was so grateful to face some harsh topics that i needed to see people work through at that time in my life. this show i learned to love as a separate entity from the books, and im so glad people are talking about it! i find that the show is like someone read the three books then ran with the idea. i could rant about this world and concept for hours ahhhh. would love to see a conversation about the books vs show and about the subverted tropes, like how que tin is kind of an inverse chosen one concept where he’s just kind of mid or bad at everything while all his friends are highly skilled in something
I just consider the show as one of the many timelines that exist as result of the loops. I personally find it comforting, imagining there are many other versions of the characters from the books and the show that somewhere out there found a happy ending
You're being way too hard on Jane. Remember, this is a time loop. She tried ALL of it, she confronted the Beast, she had Quentin not join Brakebills, she gave them all the informations at the start... all of it. She's also working against an opponent that knows what she's doing, and at this point it's a game of cat and mouse. She's trowing anything at the wall in the hope something sticks, and you gotta assume the Beast just kills everyone if she interferes too much - but if she only makes minor changes, it's entertaining enough for the Beast to witness what's changed this time that he plays along, and this is Jane's best chance to defeat him. She hurries the plot along just enough to not bore him, and makes just enough changes each time to keep him entertained.
Also blaming Jane for what happened to Julia doesn't make sense. If I remember right Jane pushed Julia out in this one time loop. But even if it was more than one, Jane didn't set up how Jullia became stronger.
Yeah. I was mostly with him up until that point. The sheer number of time loops shows that Jane has been trying to help her brother and the world in any way she could. And that Q just ALWAYS found his way to the center of the chaos. I also feel like that's why his death was earned, he ALWAYS died TRYING to perform a heroic act.
If anyone can chose for Julia either to become human or a goddess. It should’ve been Quentin because Quentin is her best/childhood friend. He knows her and he would know that she wanted magic and he would chose to her to become a goddess again
They definitely gave it to Penny 40 so they could develop their “relationship bond” and use jt as a plot for when Penny lost his ability’s in the last season. Quinten had that plot whit her back in season one when he didn’t fight for her to get into Breakbils or come share what he was learning with her. It was the binder that explained to her that she had to “choose” if she were a goddess or human and it was after Quintin died when she discovered that she had magic again which she spent the last season fighting to deserve. Her story arc is miserable but interesting & tough to watch imo. Even this video points out that she always had to fight for magic and it was always in someone else’s hands so she kept searching and trying to prove she deserved it. *Penny 23
I got really excited seeing this video cuz I never hear anyone talk about this show! The Magicians was really important to me in high school & going into college, cuz there are tons of stories with heroic or otherwise virtuous heroes, but Quentin Coldwater was one of the few main characters I could relate to on grounds of his introverted nature. I also just loved their approach to magic, gods & other fantasy things! Such a great show!
very thankful for the video essay and how amazingly put together this is, I do disagree with your opinion on Quentin's death though. I believe it was a necessity in order to show light to other characters in depth. One of my personal favorite scene's are when Alice and Eliot hike up to The Mountain of Ghosts to grieve and say "goodbye" to Quentin, we get a huge emotional moment between the two as Eliot reveals that him and Q were more than friends, or how other cast members to go to extreme lengths or just the vast, out of place character choices that take place due to the grief put on them from Q's death. I watched this whole thing it was amazing! Great work!
This show is kind of my life, it somehow was a huge influence in my life’s Quentin was definitely someone who resonated with me. As did Elliot, this series was really bold and out there, but it’s an actual ‘adult’ in a modern fantasy series and the dark realities that comes with the whimsical and how the two can either co exist or we see the seams fray
Damn, Eliot Waugh is in my top 3 of all time favourite tv characters. Shame that i cannot go back to the show since I'm still super bitter about how things ended up with it.
I think the ability for us to bond with the characters and be hurt by any character(s) is a form of testament to the world building and character writing. I feel like I really understood the characters motivations and feelings.
This show was a huge part of why I became a writer. It really isn't a perfect show, and this review makes it even more painfully obvious. But it is always nice to go back to those fond memories of a show like this with a critical lens, in order to build something better and worthwhile for the future generation.
Reading the comments, it would seem I'm in the minority, but I actually liked Quentin's death. I had not seen anything about the writers' interviews and I don't much care what they said in them. I liked that the character who knew they were maybe the least competent magician of his group, yet who was once told he was chosen and had been proven wrong, was given the chance to choose to be a hero, and he made that difficult choice even as the love he had lost with Alice had just come back. And I enjoyed that it came not from a grand magical feat but from the humble "minor mending" specialty that had once punctuated just how out of his depth he was. In a way, they are almost subverting the earlier subversion of the "chosen one" not being the actual driver of the plot or the savior/warrior, for whatever importance there is to discussing the subversion angle of things. I don't disagree with some of the other takes, but I just don't see how this death was bad for the show; it felt appropriate and meaningful to me.
I agree as well. I feel his death made a real and lasting difference for the return of magic having an ultimate price. As it’s said “Magic comes from pain” and what a more beautiful and hurtful thing to do than to kill the one person who always and unwaveringly believed in magic.
Glad there are other people of taste. Quentin's death is so powerful. Still can't listen to take on me the same 😢 Also think it paved more room for the other protagonists that did get more room without the "main" character.
Yeah, I definitely agree with this. To add, I also found Quentin to be slightly annoying so his death really didn't phase me. My only critique, however, was that his death fell into the "lowkey suicidal character sacrifices themselves to save their friends" trope which I've always found problematic due to the message it may send to people actually struggling with suicidal ideation. But I think this also falls in line with a larger critique I have about the show's main message of "magic comes from pain" which is definitely subversive but also falls into the trap of almost glamorizing the characters' suffering, which again has real world implications for viewers who may also be in a dark place.
I loved this show when I first discovered it. It provided a completely detached escapist fantasy that initially worked for me. What really captivated me was the portrayal of a lifestyle I desired: living in a major walkable city, having a large apartment, being part of a great group of friends, attending parties, and feeling attractive. I was emotionally invested in the story because Julia mirrored my life. Like her, I work hard, have talent, and often find myself unable to break into those "elite" circles, forcing me to take the less desirable path to achieve my goals. The escapism was powerful because it felt real enough to be inspiring, and the outcomes were realistic yet comforting. However, the "woke" elements introduced at the very end were jarring for me. By "woke," I don’t mean liberal, progressive, or egalitarian themes. I mean the insertion of girl boss feminist slogans stated deadpan. It felt out of place, especially when the main character isn't Quentin, despite his perspective being the dominant one for the first few seasons. Julia and Quentin were always going to be seen as the main characters because they were the primary viewpoints for the audience. Moreover, having to directly state any values statement, particularly at the end of a work, felt forced and unnecessary. As a general rule, I believe a show should convey its messages naturally. Every work "says something," but doing a good job means those messages don't need to be explicitly stated. I would highly recommend the show and Ill probably be rewatching it (for a third time) now that Ive been reminded
36:30 "This isn't the first time The Magicians has thrown out ideas that could have been good." That's the perfect summary of the "The Magicians" viewing experience. I am told by other TV shows that Sera Gamble writes for does exactly this: lays a bunch of small threads that she has no intention of picking up in the future, but wants them there just in case she comes up with some idea for them later. It's maddening for anyone who is a close reader/viewer and looking for trace evidence of what's to come. This form of writing makes so much of how these seasons resolve feel like an ass-pull.
I didn't have that. To me it felt like just another show ruined by a liberal just like Starwars and every other property they touch. I was half right on that.
@@TempoLOOKING😂 that's hilarious. clearly you didn't understand the book or the show. "liberals" didn't ruin anything, your weird view on politics warps your understanding of media.
Though I think you missed the mark on some things, ultimately missing the unintentional genius of certain parts, I get where you're coming from. Happy to see this show getting discussed more.
Magic is pain..... But magic as you watch the series can be bitterly sweet and beautiful. Though Quentin death broke me in never understood how people used the phrase to show and characters till this death happened. And its sincerely an understatement. Also julia into arc will break anyone whose been sa though she doesn't get the amount of spotlight as the others.
What are the odds that I literally just picked up the book series because I couldn't stop thinking about this show. I just re-watched the whole series and I needed more the fact that this is crossing my feed one day later is wild
Love the video. Just one thing. You forgot the volunteer tomato conversation. It kind of explains a lot of the stuff you said didnt make sense about Jane Chatwin 'choosing' Quentin (and the fact that she did try to handle her brother herself, and couldnt do it.)
Thank you! No, I didn't forget about that conversation. In hindsight, I should have conveyed this more concretely, but I very consciously brought up this point even with the context of that conversation. The term that I use, "choosing", is not me describing the situation in that way, I am not putting words in the show's mouth in this instance. In 4x07, a.k.a. "The Side Effect", a character says in reference to Quentin that "He's the one the little British girl picked to save the world". Yes, Jane does say that he keeps coming back, but the show still points to the fact that Jane *did* choose. Now as to why I have an issue with it - the show very explicitly points out how inept Quentin is in comparison to the entire cast. Quentin even himself says in 1x13 that he understands how magic works and that Alice is a better magician than him. I think the show uses this to point out that magic in "The Magicians" doesn't simply run on the belief in it, but actually requires skill that Quentin doesn't have. So it really just seems like Jane choosing Quentin - the one magician who is one of the least talented within the cast - over and over again is just a stupid choice. Yes, I get what they are going for with the chosen one narrative, but it doesn't really make sense in that particular world where magic is run on hard skill. This is an issue for me in the first place because the show makes Julia - a character who is shown to actually be talented - earn her place. Quentin - a not talented magician - is simply handed it. And why does that happen? Jane. Her choices simply don't make sense within the world that she is in, because they are not practical choices at all. I would assume she knows how magic works at that point. To repeat what I already said - it is fine that the show conveys this. What is not fine is how the show ultimately frames it.
@@andrewreviews i always interpreted her 'chosing' him because he isn't the best at it, but if he tries to get rid of the beast he won't be alone. Like a power of friendship kind of thing. If it was alice i fully believe she'd do it alone and Julia wouldn't ask for help much either as that's not her strong suit until her and kady are friends. I also interpreted the volunteer tomato conversation as the first time he fought the beast jane didn't prompt him at all and felt bad about him dying for her cause so she started the loop to see if he could accomplish it, but unfortunately since it's her time loop she couldn't fight the beast since it would be over if she died. And that since it's timeline 40 she's guiding him (albiet vaguely) because of something she learned in the other 39 timelines. As for what was going on in the writers room concerning her being vague, i think it was just so it would be cool and mysterious But anyway that's just my takes on that
@@andrewreviewsafter the first few episodes, I quickly stopped thinking of Quentin as the "super strong hero type". He was outclassed by almost everyone at Brakebills, much less his friends. But he did the one thing that no one else could, and Jane knew it. He improbably brought together the biggest group of cluster fucked people that would have either killed each other or never been on each other's radar at all. He was the heart and soul of the group and Jane realized that they were the only way to kill the beast. Q had to be there to keep them together, Julia had to earn her way to not only gain the power required for the task, but to keep Q from getting stuck in her shadow so he felt like he mattered and was necessary. As someone with depression and suicidal thoughts, the one thing that can help break through all that sadness and emptiness is feeling truly needed and useful. Think of it like a grand game of wordle. Jane was making guesses on what combination gave the correct outcome, and each reset she found another piece that fit the puzzle a little better until the timeline we get where everything fits together and spells out the word. Just like the word and it's letters, every instance had to be in the correct order before it worked.
I think the 50 odd previous timelines had been about Jane trying to promote the more talented other kids but regardless of circumstance she always ended up with a Quentin, so after 50 fails she give Quentin a try and then died, so she couldn’t try a new combo. If she’d tried centering Q 50 times and failed every time I think the idea of misogynist Jane would hold more water.
Ok, when it comes to Quentin getting accepted and Julia getting rejected have more to do with what happens in the books. Julia becomes obsessed with magic to the point where it ruins her life but she trucks through it joins every hedge wizard organization across the USA and becomes one of the most powerful and most well versed magicians. She then joins an organization seeking higher power tries to get it through this French God. However the group is deceived accidentally summons a jackal God instead. The jackal God grants her request for higher power by raping her taking her soul as a human and putting his seed in her so that she will become a dryad. Then over years she slowly loses more and more for humanity until she transforms. She actually had nothing to do with fighting the beast in the book series. In the books Alice sacrifices herself to kill the beast. Janet Chatwin explains to Quintin about her time travel powers and how she's not very skilled with them. Quintin begs her to use her power bring back Alice but she says she doesn't want to risk it because she doesn't know if they could be the beast again. What does this have to do with Julia? Absolutely nothing which is what makes what happened to her such a tragedy. That was a bit of an underlying theme throughout the books, what good is all this power if there's no meeting to your life.
The Order is another that was surprisingly good, largely because of the cast having a great balance of individual charisma and chemistry with literally everyone else (much like The Magicians). Not the same magical vibe though, think ceremonial magick but extra bloody
I _love_ the Order. Really and truly. It felt like it tried to take a note or two from The Magicians (and some of the cast, LOL) but it was overall an incredible show.
I think there is an issue with the earlier thesis... magic does solve problems, a lot, a LOT of them, and is a powerful source of well-being. Of course the show doesn't focus on this because it's not dramatic enough, but that's the point. There's a ton of middle-class magicians who live their small little life away from grand cosmic things, while still having the level of life comforts of a real-life multi-billionaire. Alice parents are a good example of this, but many other tertiary characters are shown, and much more are implied. The plot and story of The Magicians is a tragedy fueled by fear, hope, loss, ego, and pain. But those also toy with the source and control of all magic, killing gods, a much more. So yeah in that context, the reflex of "let's meet a challenge with raw power and technique and just blast past it" often, maybe only lead to more pain. But that's not magic itself, that's ambition, and cruel fate (or the necessity to sell some books or a tv show).
I dont hate the quentin thing , but it was unnessesary. , and it potentially having his depression and unaliving question, is the real , not great. And in season one he had straight to his face accepted that he isnt the main character its around, hell his discipline and him trusting alice is all about that. Also it had to be julia, because as much creative liberty there is, they still take from the books as source, and julia is there, even if its doing itzs own thingsa .
They do address this in the show tho. “Did i do something brave to save my friends or did i finally find a way to kill myself. ” The funeral scene is one of the handful times i have actually shed a tear while watching something. Yeah it might have been unnecessary but i feel the key takeaway from this show is things happen in life and you have to get through them.
I really liked the first season or so of the show, but I felt like it got a little too vindictive towards certain characters and almost relished in tormenting them. That’s not a bad thing, but it turned me off of it enough that I stopped watching either towards the end of season 3 or just after starting season 4
Hi, loved your video. But I think you're wrong about Quinn he is the main character/chosen one. He is not the smartest or the strongest or wins all the fights. He is the intersecting point through him everyone comes together. Elliot and Margot are involved because of Quinn. Alice only finds herself involved because of Quinn, the same as for Julia and Penny. You can argue it was the Beast that brought Penny, but we're thinking of future events, the Beast only targeted Penny because of his future connection to Quinn. Quinn is the character that brings everyone to the table. Without him, it doesn't work. That is why I think he is still the chosen one.
I'm with you on almost everything, but when you start getting into the idea of the timelines, and pushing Julia out and such, you act like pushing her out, and what she goes through, is known or forced, but the entire point was that other things HAD been tried, this hadn't (pushing her away), and it was what amounted to a last ditch effort. She had already tried the obvious stuff, and she didn't know exactly what would happen to Julia. You ask what would happen if it was Quintin pushed out, but, that was most likely another timeline. He died 39 times along those timelines, and most likely everyone, or almost everyone from his little group along with him. No one ever gained enough power, enough foresight, enough gusto, to take out the beast, they just die. I also assumed she had tried to interfere when he was younger, if/when she was able, but they make it clear she doesn't just have full and utter control over time, or the timeline. She's not a god, but a person working within timelines to shift them. Jane's explanation does make sense, she isn't omniscient, she is trying to calculate the butterfly effect of her actions through literal time, to see the defeat of someone far stronger than herself, without dying herself. I thought they even mentioned how amazing Julia was in the other loops, which is why pushing her away wasn't done earlier. They don't "consider" her "creating" these situations, because as Fogg says (with truth serum), they keep getting involved. She isn't CAUSING the situation, she isn't orchestrating their involvement, she's editing it, out of desperation to fix things. In the original timeline, they die, and even with edits, they've died 39 times more, so it doesn't make much sense to somehow blame or target Jane as CREATING these situations any more than they do. You don't really target the only reason you're alive and go "how dare you mess with my fate of losing and dying a horrible death!" In my mind the characters all try to accept that this was the only time they won, and as horrible as some things had been, the alternative was losing it all. Her dying also means we don't get to know (of course, for the story to take place, it had to be this way) what she might have tried to fix, alter, correct, if she was alive. Maybe she was willing to keep editing down the timeline as much as she could once they found a way, to have the cleanest nicest timeline possible, but she can't do that now. Again, the book and show would have just not worked if she could keep going, so for the narrative, she has to die. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been nice to hear her explain that the obvious routes made him stronger, or didn't work for x y z, or have her explain more limitations of her abilities or something, but I also feel like we were given more than enough to understand that she couldn't just walk up to him and say "hey, don't do that, bad" and he would magically be a good person, and that all of the main characters die in nice timelines. In the end someone had to be pushed well past reasonable, and that someone turned out to be Julia. Also nothing you said about misogyny or white male protagonist is reasonable given what we see/hear. It's like you want to see it that way when it's anything but. You just didn't understand the time loops, how long she had been doing this, and the obvious idea that telling them didn't work. Then about Fen, you see it as joking AT her, or treating her poorly, when it's more played as the absurdity of it all. This is all crazy, crappy, shitty, no one is where they WANT to be, and you seem to think characters like Margo are seen in a good light, they're not. Margo's redemption over time is in SPITE of her ways. She's thrust into trying/doing, when she doesn't want to or want to care, and when she finally starts to take things into her own hands and get things done, she's finally not being selfish.... Do you really not see that?
I particularly loved the first and third season. Killing of Quentin was really the death blow of the show - he maybe wasn't the main person narratively - but he was the emotional center holding bonds to all others. Without him something was clearly missing
It felt like a show that was written like fan fiction: serialized and constantly changing to fit the audience and not always the plot (I did still like it though, of course)
when i first read the books, i wanted it to be a movie. then years later talks of it being a series came up and i was so hyped. and although the budget from syfy isnt that big, it did bring the book justice.
Stopped once when Alice died. Then stopped again when Q died. Tried again and just started to hate if after a while. Cool to see something about it cause I knew I'd never finish.
Quinton was never the main character. He was the perspective character. Killing him off to subvert the straight white male lead was so misplaced. Q was never the most important character nor the main character, he was just the audiences point of perspective into this world. The writers took that away and the show suffered greatly for it.
They very explicitly pointed out that he wasn't the perspective character, nor did they kill him off to "subvert the straight white male lead." He wasn't a straight white male to begin with. He was very much in love with Eliot. He wasn't the audience's point of perspective. There were lots of things that never had anything to do with Quentin.
@@Venjamin No, he was straight to begin with. There was zero hinting towards him being anything else up until the whole Elliot/Quentin and they only brought that storyline back after a very vocal part of the fan base lost their shit over it and wanted more.
ive been looking for a good deep dive into this show and youve delivered! I fell in love with the show during the pandemic and was going trying to cope with how season 5 ended.
Unfortunately, the whole power transfer via sex fluid is not unheard of across mythology. So in keeping with taking the fictional and giving it a darker lense, it actually made a lot of sense to me.
I read these as they were coming out and was so excited for the show. Then I watched a few episodes and couldn't stand it. It wasn’t until a friend told me things got better in season 2 that i suffered through it. And season 2 was good, not great. Season 3 actually had me wanting to watch more, but there wasn’t any yet. I honestly thought it got cancelled or something lol. If anything, thanks for the reminder to watch the rest.
This is a really good video essay on The Magicians! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and perception on all it, you really hit on the head what bothered me about how the show treated Fen.
I loved the dark fantasy of this show, but I personally found so many of the characters (namely Quinton) absolutely infuriating. I just couldn't get past season 2 because I spent more time yelling than enjoying. This is coming from someone that really enjoys dark fantasy, from Warhammer fantasy to Dragon Age to Song of Ice and Fire, etc. I love fantasy stories that exclusively aren't sunshine and rainbows... But the most interesting worlds can't overcome an annoying main character.
This show was my everything while it aired, and I still carry it in my heart today. Under Pressure always makes me smile, and Margo will forever be one of my favorite characters in… any piece of media. Thanks for making this video :)
I've watched the entire series from beginning to end over 25 times. Each time, I learn something new. There are layers and layers of meaning, metaphor, parallelism, psychology, simile, and comparison. Move beyond the superficiality of a plot and storyline. "Magic comes from pain" is why Dean Fogg yells at Quentin "Do some God Damn magic!" The entire series is this way. Everything is something of a message with deep meaning and purpose.
I think the fall down in season 4 is where they too the biggest step away from the books, and it seems like they fumbled it. Im guessing without having it plotted out as well things fell off the rails.
Such great timing! I literally just finish re-reading the first book so that I can start the second and have slowly started re-binging the series. I never finished the final season (for the same reason as many other people), but I’m going to push through this time.
at the time s4 aired my partner (who reminded me a lot of Quentin) had recently died by suicide so it was an extra blow to see one of my favorite characters die in such a hollow way. The show basically sent the message that suicide is the answer to feeling lost and purposeless and that self sacrifice is the ultimate conclusion to mental health struggles. A super messed up message to send. I used to love the Magicians but I think the show runners misunderstood their own show/ story. Yes it’s subversive and a story of struggle but it felt like trauma p*rn at times and virtue signaling at others. It was “wink wink, nudge nudge” but not in a way that, retrospectively, was fully enjoyable, warranted, or made narrative sense. Subversive media like the 1st Scream movie works because while it subverts expectations, it’s not just going for shock value- there’s narrative purpose. I wanted to keep my love for the Magicians alive but s4 tainted all the positives for me. It did many things right and interesting but it also did many questionable things that send harmful messages. Despite trying to subvert tropes the show runners fell into traps they tried to avoid and then went: look were progressive because we have a diverse cast/ female characters aren’t 100% pure, etc. But it was hollow and often came across as misogynistic or at the expense of a character’s identity or personal struggles which is arguably not progressive at all. Thank you for making this video. I’m glad to know others feel similarly all this time later
I feel like the biggest mistake was making their fantasy world so absurd and annoying. They seemed to forget that if it was really underwhelming and foolish it would seem weird for two adults to be obsessed with the book series.
Damn, this show hasn’t been on my mind since I shared the last episode with my since divorced wife. Brings back so many good and bad memories. Thanks for this video❤. I won’t watch it because it hurts, but thank you for making it ❤
Watched this show when it came out years ago and rewatched it this year. I looked hard to find an in-depth analysis on it but couldn't find one. Imagine my surprise when the algorithm gods presented this to me. Exactly what I was hoping to see. The show is honestly very decent and I really grew attached to the characters. Thank you for giving it the attention it deserves.
I would argue that season 4 was the dichotomy of chaos vs order and how they can look like and how they can both be boring and mundane and unpredictable. On how antagonists looking for order doesn't have to be flashy or cool - it can be as sinister as being boring.
1:08 bear with me, I hope this makes sense. I've never liked Jane so I'm not defending her but I think it's like a bell that can't be unrung. In the first timeline, Martin is abused so Martin becomes the beast. She creates the second timeline and best case scenario she figures out how to stop the abuse in timeline 2 - beast martin is already strong enough to remember the other timeline, so even if she stops the abuse, the trauma that led him to want to be strong enough to never be abused again is still there, so he still pursues the beast path. The fact that she's strong enough to create new timelines happens because he's already strong enough to remember discarded timelines. Like a snake eating its tail
Honestly very well could be! Not a bad theory at all. I wish the show elaborated on her efforts more, in this particular or any other way - would have made her more justified in her actions
@andrewreviews yeah I like the alternate timeline because we got Penny 23 but the show could have made Jane a stronger character by showing more of her efforts. Instead we got psycho Dean Fogg 😂
Great video! I randomly remembered this show - I loved it, flaws and all - and decided to look up if it was still being talked about! So happy it is. Going to subscribe. You set this whole video up very well. Thanks for the content!
This is my favorite show of all time. I've watched it 14 times already. It's so good. It's dramatic, it's funny, it's sad, it's inspiring, it's comforting, it's everything.
Finally! Thank you for this, I was wondering/hoping if I'd end up being the first to do a big ol' essay on one of my (almost) favorite shows on here or if someone would beat me to it - and I'm grateful you did
To me it felt like the shows thesis' was that every person is in some way a main character. They show it by making each "side" character hint to having a life just as rich and complex as the protagonists. Killing Quentin (after giving him a really good end to his arc imho) forces focus on every other character which again was the point. The last season wasnt about saving the world. Its the characters coping with the death of a friend which feels like the end of the world. But just like the show aludes to at the end, thw world keeps going on to the next adventure.
Lol, this has not faded in my life. I just keep making new friends rewatch it with me. I know I need to make new friends when I’ve finished Magicians with the most recent ones 😂
Thank you for such detailed and well thought out critiqué, It’s always wonderful to see someone else’s perspective and discover new things. I have a few pointers. 1. Second season is not “disjointed” in my opinion it is an exploration of life after coming of age. You graduate - you move on with your life. It’s only fitting for the ensemble to lead their own stories which might have little to nothing in common. From that perspective it is coherent. Perfect execution of a concept in my opinion. 2. You’ve spent half of your theses praising show for subversion of the tropes, yet you expect The Order to be revealed as a secret powerful entity with nefarious agenda? That’s a trope show supposed to follow for some reason? No, librarians are exactly what their supposed to be. An ancient superpower which were hogging knowledge and expertise for so long it became overly bureaucratic, rusted to the core and conforming to the point of incompetence. Once a leading power and a beacon of calmness in turbulent ocean of magic becoming a swamp of rotted ideas and decomposing principles is a perfectly suited addition to the world of “Magicians”. And a reflection on how corporations and/or governments seemingly invincible turned out to be an empty husk existing for the sole purpose of desperately clinging onto status quo. 3. In my opinion show is masterfully navigates the art of building up to a logical and often mundane resolution deeply rooted in reflection on reality while banging on all bells and blowing on all whistles it could get it hands on in order to lure you into false feeling that you know what’s coming. So yeah I’ve also fall its victim and hated some choices or reveals or plot dead ends or just the general feeling about the season, but watching for the second or third time I’ve started to see more and more depths. Was it put in intentionally or comes naturally matters not. That’s how art works. I personally see this series not as an entertainment but rather as a piece of art.
This was my ALL TIME favorite show and I was devastated when it ended. Like I lost my best friend 😢 which is weird cuz I never feel that way from a show. But after the show ended, I got the books and read them lmao. I still miss this group.
I loved this show, it has flaws, of course, but at least it tries and that was always a breath of fresh air. But, one of my biggest disappointments was that they didn't allow Quentin and Eliot to end up together Which I think was the natural progression for them. I also think they wasted the penny and Kady relationship. While forcing a relationship on Julia did nothing for her story, which would have been much better left as a battle of self-improvement.
I agree. It felt like everyone needed a romantic relationship and it was Julia’s turn especially since they killed off Richard so abruptly. She had a partner that introduced her to healthy magic but the whole power from pain thing helped ruin that. It’s like they didn’t want to introduce a new character so they brought back Josh for Margo and had Richard serve two characters. Not to mention the friendship she built with Kady, I hate how they kept throwing her away and that she’s never seen filory outside of that music number for Margo and that was in the desert. Penny 40 could’ve spent more them learning about this timeline not just lying that he didn’t just replace the Julia from his timeline because they sound exactly the same. It’s like the writers realized they painted a corner for Penny in the end. Julia was always going to choose the next challenge and Penny in any timeline has kinda been over the magic but from the jump when he was always pushing to leave breakbills. The control force was always Quinton and definitely the beast.
I really enjoyed watching The Magicians during 2020. I think seasons 1 and 2 were interesting in setting up the world and connections but couldn't really get into how dark it was, but I stayed watching because of how much I enjoyed the margo and elliot hijinks in fillory. S3 was a lot more fun to watch and s4 was like a gut punch but in a 'sad but beautiful' sort of way. I also enjoyed both the s3 and s4 in how they felt more structured and character driven, the increased introduction of fillory which allowed for a lighter vibe to contrast the human world, as well as their respective musical episodes. I'm glad to see somebody do such an in-depth review of this series that I greatly enjoy (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*.✧
Here is a fun game for you - take a shot every time I say "magic" [and its variations if you feel daring today]
Oh and also, #JusticeForFen
👀 What the... 4 days ago? The magicians? Video essay? Subscribed!
i'm having a cocktail for every time you change the thumbnail lol!
@@smooveayy cheers to that
SAME!
Kn@@NK-dt1kp
People do not talk about this show enough. It was beautiful. The episode called “A life in the Day” where Q and Elliot raised a family made my jaw drop. It changed my entire perception of how I live my life - that hasn’t happened to me since I watched The Good Place on NBC.
The show is not perfect and veers away from the books in many ways but the world building is so enthralling. I met Lev Grossman once when he came to visit my university back in 2014. He was so chill and told me all about the different ideas he had used versus those he had dropped for the book. His process of creating a consistent magic system is top tier.
Also this convo in the show will NEVER not be hilarious:
“Why are you locked up?”
“Because I killed all their trees.”
“That’s it?”
“They were magical talking trees.”
“Wait, Fillory has talking trees?!”
“Not anymore.”
🤣🤣🤣
Peaches and plums ❤
If you read the books first, you would have thrown a brick at your tv
@@AddictiveSin I read the books after and I half-agree. But the show was riveting in its own right.
Audiobooks on audible unabridged. If your a fan of the show and never dabled in the books complete the experience.
Not a advertisement I got the books on audible after the beast nearly killed everybody the first time and the contrast and character fusions are interesting.
A day in a life is a comfort episode for me. I love everything about that episode 😍
Lets face it Margot and Elliot absolutely steals the whole show they are the best comic reliefs turned main characters that i have ever seen
They are, literally, the only reason I kept watching past S3. This is the only show I've watched (at least in a very long time) where all of the main characters are just unlikeable, and seem to have no growth. Margot and Eliot though - beyond entertaining.
Sure, but they also suck and are always up their own asses.
Look at how they treat their rule, and you see what's up, specifically how awful they behave with their subjects
“I am the hero of this goddamned story, Ember! Remember? And the hero gets the reward!” “No, Quentin,” the Ram said. “The hero pays the price.”
-The Magician King
Is this a horror story? :O
The horror or thriller elements are definitely there, but it's more sad than scary, you know? 🫠@@Dulkh4n
@@Dulkh4nA little bit. Magic and people are treated as real users. Some antagonists are almost godlike. One I believe can pause time.
@@thomascromwell6840 the perfect Magic for stealing from the rich
My pitch for most people who I think would actually enjoy the series is "Imagine if those desperate childhood yearnings of yours were true, magic was real and you were one of the special chosen few...but it didn't fix you. You were still you, and you were still miserable, and you still had to find your way through it." It might sound like a miserable way to recommend something, but when I was a teenager it was honestly comforting to have a book say "It's turtles all the way down, kid. People with magic would just have magic problems. You just deal with the hand you're dealt and take care of the people you can take care of." Also in the same line I actually like the show better than the book series, I like the direction they took with it.
I've described it as "Imagine Harry Potter but all the characters are already adults and they're all damaged."
"You were still you, and you were still miserable." Wow. That hurt. But probably the reason why it's so appealing to me yet so hard to watch. The fantasy SHOULD help but it doesn't because the reality of it all keeps slapping me in the face.
hey, i loved the show and want to start reading the books. do you think its worth it?
@@Noname72105no it's a post modern antihuman joke.
See, this was always my thing with fantasy - I was diagnosed as a type 1 diabetic at 7 years old, so my first question was (and still is) always 'But am I still diabetic?'
This show was everything for me, I hated how it ended 😔 but I'm still grateful for it. It mixed magic and school and relationships and fantasy in a way that i haven't seen ever, thank you for this.
The books end completely differently!! They also explore more of the college and Fillory, 100% would recommend
If Harry Potter is classical music this is rock and roll with splashes of pop. I fkn love this show ❤❤
@@ladyhotep5189no it's crack cocaine.
The 3rd season of this show is genuinely one of the best seasons of TV I have ever watched and it will always hurt to know that the show couldn't manage to maintain that quality going forward.
yup and that scene of Margot and Elliot's conversation in pop culture code is the main reason
I love the 3rd season so much! I rewatch it all the time. Though S4+5 aren't as good, I still like S4.
s3>>>>>
The writing in that season reached peak levels!
Get woke, go broke. Season 4 and 5 went to $hit because they turned the injection of identity politics and intersectional feminism up to 11. It was always there, but they just couldn't help themselves. You can ignore it to some extent, but once you notice it, you can't un-notice it, and it becomes jarring to the point of unwatchability. This is a familiar pattern, and unfortunately, The Magicians was not immune.
Magician's content?? In 2024?? Yes please???
I always felt that mounting the tension for a big epic reveal who turn out as very mundane and anticlimatic was perfectly in tune with the story, it break the mystic of magic, the old god, the librarian, showing them as dysfunctonal and whimsical as the human side.
I feel like you are assuming that Jane Chatwin was omnipotent, implying that she knew exactly what would happen to Julia and essentially had control over each loop when that is pretty explicitly not the case. Also younger Jane did know that her brother needed help and she was seeking answers and ways to help him for many years unsuccessfully and eventually was forced to choose prioritizing the world over him.
Similarly, I always assumed that the reason why she leaves them in the dark this time around is that in previous attempts, she HAS let them know what was going on (to different degrees), and they still failed.
Exactly. This is Timeline 40. FOURTY. I'm sure she tried big changes at first, and when Q and co kept 'stepping up' in a lot of timelines, she started changing things specifically with the group to see how the changes affected the timeline. I'm going on the basis that the time powers and the loop works like this: she can't change anything that's already happened, as shown by how she is actually an antagonist to her younger self, presumably to make herself stronger to become the Watcher Woman she needs to be; sort of a self fulfilling prophecy/paradox. She created the time loop that goes back to the same time every reset, and she can't go back further and create a different loop, only in her current time, hence why she can't go back and save her brother from the abuse.
Now, my biggest point: The time loop canonically doesn't end the previous timeline, all of those worlds still exist and we get to see some. We see that in at least one, they DO defeat the Beast, but the fallout was so bad that Jane reset the loop anyway. Meaning, that if Jane hadn't been finally killed by the Beast in this timeline, she probably would've reset it after learning what her change this loop did to the group and Julia specifically. THAT'S my biggest sticking point on this narrative of Jane as an antagonist. She died in this loop, leaving no one left to reset it when, despite winning against the Beast, it still being a 'bad ending' which I fully believe she would've done.
The big secret could be suffering didn't exist. Pain. Hatred all that greed. A fight between the gods brought it fourth and the monster is a manifestation of that pain. So they locked it up but it still leaked into the world. The monster hates the gods because it can never feel joy, happiness or the absence of suffering. For it is suffering itself. And hopes that by killing the gods it will get something close to peace.
@@LukaWukaWatcherthank you for this comment. That makes the most sense. I had forgotten about there being a timeline where they defeated the beast and she still reset it.
This is an excellent video and I think you're right on with your analysis. The only thing you missed was how Julia had to earn magic where Quentin was just given access because misogyny. That wasn't it at all. The reason why Julia was given the boot and Quinton was allowed to enroll is because Julia was so ridiculously strong and so ridiculously good at Magic that Quintin ended up leaning on her as a crutch and never developed because she just acted as his sword and shield and brain and brawn. She was a genius, so much so that everyone leaned on her for a crutch and became stagnant. By denying Julia access to brake bills she was put in a situation that actually challenged her where she had to overcome adversity and things didn't come to her so easily and Quinton had to learn magic without his genius best friend carrying him on her back the entire time so it was her excellence not her gender that resulted in the circumstances she found herself in during the first season
Yes, exactly!
@@casstom um no the reason why Julia was given the boot cause they were stuck in a time loop and the common denominator for the reset was Julia. Did you miss this part in the show cause even the principal explained this to her with an apology cause he had tried literally everything to stop the end each and every time but Julia's path always caused something go wrong BECAUSE she was so powerful
Spot on!
I don't think the auidence is supposed to laugh at Fen or this different culture. It's to show that the characters never consider Fillory and it's people as real. To them it is a story. Even when they are living in it it's not real to them, not fully. It's to show how they aren't really good people / self centered.
🩷💜💙🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼
100000% agree!
I love Fen! ❤
agree I think this creater would benefit from studying story, theme and narrative a bit more it would benefit their content and I think they’re good at it but they missed some nuance here
For real. I thought it was interesting that the Kings are never really good, just self-serving.
To continue that for so long is a brave choice, I think, which keeps the characters in constant conflict... I both love it and hate it.
i was so pissed at the end of s4 when it aired that it took me like 3 years to get over it and finish the show. with distance, i wasn't as pissed at the death of quentin, although it still hurts
Dawww man, I am only on season 2 T_T
Honestly, though, Quentin was kinda just there. Like i never really grew to care for him. The show really didn't need him. Plus, im pretty sure that they killed him off because the actor wanted to leave.
@@iamallaboutfood7242 babe ur watching a retrospective video on the show I don’t know what to tell you
@@aeas09 that’s fair, i liked him a lot, even more so on rewatches, he’s a different kind of protagonist, messy and often wrong, i liked that about him.
I still havent gone back. The absolute betrayal of his character was entirely too much. And then the gall to sing fucking take on me while burning his shit, and making no attempt to bring him back. Penny? Oh well have multiple episodes focused around his return from the dead. Quinton tho? Nah he can stay dead
Wow, you're so right about Fen. I didn't notice just how much she's gone through because I kept seeing it from the leads' perspective. Really makes you think
I just got done binging it night before last, and seeing it all so close together, it's very jarring. Fen began as a real, sympathetic character, then turned into a walking joke.
Among my problems with the writing is this. Fen's development should have been important, but was shoved in the closet and only brought back as a plot point in a s5.
This is one of my favorite series of all time and it’s such a shame not many have seen it. Very grateful it went on for as many seasons as it did just with the smaller fan base. Bring it back!!
i found these books in middle school and was so grateful to face some harsh topics that i needed to see people work through at that time in my life. this show i learned to love as a separate entity from the books, and im so glad people are talking about it! i find that the show is like someone read the three books then ran with the idea. i could rant about this world and concept for hours ahhhh. would love to see a conversation about the books vs show and about the subverted tropes, like how que tin is kind of an inverse chosen one concept where he’s just kind of mid or bad at everything while all his friends are highly skilled in something
I just consider the show as one of the many timelines that exist as result of the loops. I personally find it comforting, imagining there are many other versions of the characters from the books and the show that somewhere out there found a happy ending
OMG someone finally someone talking about this show
It was referenced that Quentin was Jane's focus and she did leave him out of the school and he still some how ended up in Fillory
Okay you’ve forced my hand, I’ll watch The Magicians again.
You have not made that an annual thing yet?
It’s my fall show. Some watch Gilmore girls every fall but this household it’s The magicians season
You're being way too hard on Jane. Remember, this is a time loop. She tried ALL of it, she confronted the Beast, she had Quentin not join Brakebills, she gave them all the informations at the start... all of it. She's also working against an opponent that knows what she's doing, and at this point it's a game of cat and mouse. She's trowing anything at the wall in the hope something sticks, and you gotta assume the Beast just kills everyone if she interferes too much - but if she only makes minor changes, it's entertaining enough for the Beast to witness what's changed this time that he plays along, and this is Jane's best chance to defeat him. She hurries the plot along just enough to not bore him, and makes just enough changes each time to keep him entertained.
Also blaming Jane for what happened to Julia doesn't make sense. If I remember right Jane pushed Julia out in this one time loop. But even if it was more than one, Jane didn't set up how Jullia became stronger.
Yeah. I was mostly with him up until that point. The sheer number of time loops shows that Jane has been trying to help her brother and the world in any way she could. And that Q just ALWAYS found his way to the center of the chaos. I also feel like that's why his death was earned, he ALWAYS died TRYING to perform a heroic act.
@@mzmendyand the writters pissed on the body.
@@TempoLOOKINGhow??
@@mzmendyit was earned for sure
One other thing that i love about the show is that the show is not an adaptation of the books but a different time line
“My name is Margo”
“This time”
If anyone can chose for Julia either to become human or a goddess. It should’ve been Quentin because Quentin is her best/childhood friend. He knows her and he would know that she wanted magic and he would chose to her to become a goddess again
They definitely gave it to Penny 40 so they could develop their “relationship bond” and use jt as a plot for when Penny lost his ability’s in the last season.
Quinten had that plot whit her back in season one when he didn’t fight for her to get into Breakbils or come share what he was learning with her.
It was the binder that explained to her that she had to “choose” if she were a goddess or human and it was after Quintin died when she discovered that she had magic again which she spent the last season fighting to deserve. Her story arc is miserable but interesting & tough to watch imo. Even this video points out that she always had to fight for magic and it was always in someone else’s hands so she kept searching and trying to prove she deserved it.
*Penny 23
@@chanoy._v8758 I think you meant Penny 23. He is the one in relationship with Julia. Not Penny 40
I got really excited seeing this video cuz I never hear anyone talk about this show! The Magicians was really important to me in high school & going into college, cuz there are tons of stories with heroic or otherwise virtuous heroes, but Quentin Coldwater was one of the few main characters I could relate to on grounds of his introverted nature. I also just loved their approach to magic, gods & other fantasy things! Such a great show!
very thankful for the video essay and how amazingly put together this is, I do disagree with your opinion on Quentin's death though. I believe it was a necessity in order to show light to other characters in depth. One of my personal favorite scene's are when Alice and Eliot hike up to The Mountain of Ghosts to grieve and say "goodbye" to Quentin, we get a huge emotional moment between the two as Eliot reveals that him and Q were more than friends, or how other cast members to go to extreme lengths or just the vast, out of place character choices that take place due to the grief put on them from Q's death. I watched this whole thing it was amazing! Great work!
This show is kind of my life, it somehow was a huge influence in my life’s Quentin was definitely someone who resonated with me. As did Elliot, this series was really bold and out there, but it’s an actual ‘adult’ in a modern fantasy series and the dark realities that comes with the whimsical and how the two can either co exist or we see the seams fray
the first scene of the beast gets me everytime, its absolutely horrifying
Still my favorite scene.
Damn, Eliot Waugh is in my top 3 of all time favourite tv characters. Shame that i cannot go back to the show since I'm still super bitter about how things ended up with it.
Genuinely curious if I should just watch this vid or finish the last season because i was fine letting it end at s4
@@Tuskbumperthe show is so good, just watch it, you may not like every thing about it but it's still one of the best shows ever made.
he was so incredible in this show I often think about going back for his performance even if the show was kind of a mess.
I think the ability for us to bond with the characters and be hurt by any character(s) is a form of testament to the world building and character writing. I feel like I really understood the characters motivations and feelings.
This show was a huge part of why I became a writer. It really isn't a perfect show, and this review makes it even more painfully obvious. But it is always nice to go back to those fond memories of a show like this with a critical lens, in order to build something better and worthwhile for the future generation.
A Magicians video! A proper Magicians video! Oh wow!! I'm saving this to watch once I wake up tomorrow. Damn! Yesssss!
Reading the comments, it would seem I'm in the minority, but I actually liked Quentin's death. I had not seen anything about the writers' interviews and I don't much care what they said in them. I liked that the character who knew they were maybe the least competent magician of his group, yet who was once told he was chosen and had been proven wrong, was given the chance to choose to be a hero, and he made that difficult choice even as the love he had lost with Alice had just come back. And I enjoyed that it came not from a grand magical feat but from the humble "minor mending" specialty that had once punctuated just how out of his depth he was. In a way, they are almost subverting the earlier subversion of the "chosen one" not being the actual driver of the plot or the savior/warrior, for whatever importance there is to discussing the subversion angle of things. I don't disagree with some of the other takes, but I just don't see how this death was bad for the show; it felt appropriate and meaningful to me.
We're definitely a minority in this small fandom, but I agree 💕
I'm also just glad to see people talking about this show
I agree. It was vrry painful but it had so much meaning
I agree as well. I feel his death made a real and lasting difference for the return of magic having an ultimate price.
As it’s said “Magic comes from pain” and what a more beautiful and hurtful thing to do than to kill the one person who always and unwaveringly believed in magic.
Glad there are other people of taste. Quentin's death is so powerful. Still can't listen to take on me the same 😢
Also think it paved more room for the other protagonists that did get more room without the "main" character.
Yeah, I definitely agree with this. To add, I also found Quentin to be slightly annoying so his death really didn't phase me. My only critique, however, was that his death fell into the "lowkey suicidal character sacrifices themselves to save their friends" trope which I've always found problematic due to the message it may send to people actually struggling with suicidal ideation. But I think this also falls in line with a larger critique I have about the show's main message of "magic comes from pain" which is definitely subversive but also falls into the trap of almost glamorizing the characters' suffering, which again has real world implications for viewers who may also be in a dark place.
After years I have finally come across a Magicians analysis video
I loved this show when I first discovered it. It provided a completely detached escapist fantasy that initially worked for me. What really captivated me was the portrayal of a lifestyle I desired: living in a major walkable city, having a large apartment, being part of a great group of friends, attending parties, and feeling attractive.
I was emotionally invested in the story because Julia mirrored my life. Like her, I work hard, have talent, and often find myself unable to break into those "elite" circles, forcing me to take the less desirable path to achieve my goals. The escapism was powerful because it felt real enough to be inspiring, and the outcomes were realistic yet comforting.
However, the "woke" elements introduced at the very end were jarring for me. By "woke," I don’t mean liberal, progressive, or egalitarian themes. I mean the insertion of girl boss feminist slogans stated deadpan. It felt out of place, especially when the main character isn't Quentin, despite his perspective being the dominant one for the first few seasons. Julia and Quentin were always going to be seen as the main characters because they were the primary viewpoints for the audience.
Moreover, having to directly state any values statement, particularly at the end of a work, felt forced and unnecessary. As a general rule, I believe a show should convey its messages naturally. Every work "says something," but doing a good job means those messages don't need to be explicitly stated.
I would highly recommend the show and Ill probably be rewatching it (for a third time) now that Ive been reminded
36:30 "This isn't the first time The Magicians has thrown out ideas that could have been good."
That's the perfect summary of the "The Magicians" viewing experience. I am told by other TV shows that Sera Gamble writes for does exactly this: lays a bunch of small threads that she has no intention of picking up in the future, but wants them there just in case she comes up with some idea for them later. It's maddening for anyone who is a close reader/viewer and looking for trace evidence of what's to come. This form of writing makes so much of how these seasons resolve feel like an ass-pull.
I didn't have that. To me it felt like just another show ruined by a liberal just like Starwars and every other property they touch. I was half right on that.
@@TempoLOOKING😂 that's hilarious. clearly you didn't understand the book or the show. "liberals" didn't ruin anything, your weird view on politics warps your understanding of media.
@@TempoLOOKING Everything about the Magicians was "liberal." It was great through and through, though, you just lack sense and taste.
@@TempoLOOKINGwhat a sad limited view of the world
I finished the show when i it came to Netflix and I have been waiting for this show to be talked about! Im 27 now and really want to do a rewatch
Though I think you missed the mark on some things, ultimately missing the unintentional genius of certain parts, I get where you're coming from. Happy to see this show getting discussed more.
Magic is pain..... But magic as you watch the series can be bitterly sweet and beautiful. Though Quentin death broke me in never understood how people used the phrase to show and characters till this death happened. And its sincerely an understatement. Also julia into arc will break anyone whose been sa though she doesn't get the amount of spotlight as the others.
What are the odds that I literally just picked up the book series because I couldn't stop thinking about this show. I just re-watched the whole series and I needed more the fact that this is crossing my feed one day later is wild
Love the video. Just one thing. You forgot the volunteer tomato conversation. It kind of explains a lot of the stuff you said didnt make sense about Jane Chatwin 'choosing' Quentin (and the fact that she did try to handle her brother herself, and couldnt do it.)
Thank you! No, I didn't forget about that conversation. In hindsight, I should have conveyed this more concretely, but I very consciously brought up this point even with the context of that conversation. The term that I use, "choosing", is not me describing the situation in that way, I am not putting words in the show's mouth in this instance. In 4x07, a.k.a. "The Side Effect", a character says in reference to Quentin that "He's the one the little British girl picked to save the world". Yes, Jane does say that he keeps coming back, but the show still points to the fact that Jane *did* choose. Now as to why I have an issue with it - the show very explicitly points out how inept Quentin is in comparison to the entire cast. Quentin even himself says in 1x13 that he understands how magic works and that Alice is a better magician than him. I think the show uses this to point out that magic in "The Magicians" doesn't simply run on the belief in it, but actually requires skill that Quentin doesn't have. So it really just seems like Jane choosing Quentin - the one magician who is one of the least talented within the cast - over and over again is just a stupid choice. Yes, I get what they are going for with the chosen one narrative, but it doesn't really make sense in that particular world where magic is run on hard skill. This is an issue for me in the first place because the show makes Julia - a character who is shown to actually be talented - earn her place. Quentin - a not talented magician - is simply handed it. And why does that happen? Jane. Her choices simply don't make sense within the world that she is in, because they are not practical choices at all. I would assume she knows how magic works at that point. To repeat what I already said - it is fine that the show conveys this. What is not fine is how the show ultimately frames it.
@@andrewreviews i always interpreted her 'chosing' him because he isn't the best at it, but if he tries to get rid of the beast he won't be alone. Like a power of friendship kind of thing. If it was alice i fully believe she'd do it alone and Julia wouldn't ask for help much either as that's not her strong suit until her and kady are friends.
I also interpreted the volunteer tomato conversation as the first time he fought the beast jane didn't prompt him at all and felt bad about him dying for her cause so she started the loop to see if he could accomplish it, but unfortunately since it's her time loop she couldn't fight the beast since it would be over if she died. And that since it's timeline 40 she's guiding him (albiet vaguely) because of something she learned in the other 39 timelines.
As for what was going on in the writers room concerning her being vague, i think it was just so it would be cool and mysterious
But anyway that's just my takes on that
@@andrewreviewsafter the first few episodes, I quickly stopped thinking of Quentin as the "super strong hero type". He was outclassed by almost everyone at Brakebills, much less his friends. But he did the one thing that no one else could, and Jane knew it. He improbably brought together the biggest group of cluster fucked people that would have either killed each other or never been on each other's radar at all. He was the heart and soul of the group and Jane realized that they were the only way to kill the beast. Q had to be there to keep them together, Julia had to earn her way to not only gain the power required for the task, but to keep Q from getting stuck in her shadow so he felt like he mattered and was necessary. As someone with depression and suicidal thoughts, the one thing that can help break through all that sadness and emptiness is feeling truly needed and useful. Think of it like a grand game of wordle. Jane was making guesses on what combination gave the correct outcome, and each reset she found another piece that fit the puzzle a little better until the timeline we get where everything fits together and spells out the word. Just like the word and it's letters, every instance had to be in the correct order before it worked.
I think the 50 odd previous timelines had been about Jane trying to promote the more talented other kids but regardless of circumstance she always ended up with a Quentin, so after 50 fails she give Quentin a try and then died, so she couldn’t try a new combo.
If she’d tried centering Q 50 times and failed every time I think the idea of misogynist Jane would hold more water.
Do you mean misandrist?
Ok, when it comes to Quentin getting accepted and Julia getting rejected have more to do with what happens in the books. Julia becomes obsessed with magic to the point where it ruins her life but she trucks through it joins every hedge wizard organization across the USA and becomes one of the most powerful and most well versed magicians. She then joins an organization seeking higher power tries to get it through this French God. However the group is deceived accidentally summons a jackal God instead. The jackal God grants her request for higher power by raping her taking her soul as a human and putting his seed in her so that she will become a dryad. Then over years she slowly loses more and more for humanity until she transforms. She actually had nothing to do with fighting the beast in the book series. In the books Alice sacrifices herself to kill the beast. Janet Chatwin explains to Quintin about her time travel powers and how she's not very skilled with them. Quintin begs her to use her power bring back Alice but she says she doesn't want to risk it because she doesn't know if they could be the beast again. What does this have to do with Julia? Absolutely nothing which is what makes what happened to her such a tragedy. That was a bit of an underlying theme throughout the books, what good is all this power if there's no meeting to your life.
The Order is another that was surprisingly good, largely because of the cast having a great balance of individual charisma and chemistry with literally everyone else (much like The Magicians). Not the same magical vibe though, think ceremonial magick but extra bloody
I love the order and i hate that they left it at a cliffhanger. Ps. Hate Alyssa too girl was annoying.
I _love_ the Order. Really and truly. It felt like it tried to take a note or two from The Magicians (and some of the cast, LOL) but it was overall an incredible show.
Before I even watch I wanna thank you for making a video on my favorite show, not many know of it and make videos on it. Thank you.
Not sure when, but i got to the point of loathing their "mentors" for constantly withholding vital information.
I think there is an issue with the earlier thesis... magic does solve problems, a lot, a LOT of them, and is a powerful source of well-being. Of course the show doesn't focus on this because it's not dramatic enough, but that's the point. There's a ton of middle-class magicians who live their small little life away from grand cosmic things, while still having the level of life comforts of a real-life multi-billionaire.
Alice parents are a good example of this, but many other tertiary characters are shown, and much more are implied.
The plot and story of The Magicians is a tragedy fueled by fear, hope, loss, ego, and pain. But those also toy with the source and control of all magic, killing gods, a much more. So yeah in that context, the reflex of "let's meet a challenge with raw power and technique and just blast past it" often, maybe only lead to more pain. But that's not magic itself, that's ambition, and cruel fate (or the necessity to sell some books or a tv show).
Attacking while defending. Great essay!
I dont hate the quentin thing , but it was unnessesary. , and it potentially having his depression and unaliving question, is the real , not great.
And in season one he had straight to his face accepted that he isnt the main character its around, hell his discipline and him trusting alice is all about that.
Also it had to be julia, because as much creative liberty there is, they still take from the books as source, and julia is there, even if its doing itzs own thingsa .
They do address this in the show tho. “Did i do something brave to save my friends or did i finally find a way to kill myself. ” The funeral scene is one of the handful times i have actually shed a tear while watching something. Yeah it might have been unnecessary but i feel the key takeaway from this show is things happen in life and you have to get through them.
I really liked the first season or so of the show, but I felt like it got a little too vindictive towards certain characters and almost relished in tormenting them. That’s not a bad thing, but it turned me off of it enough that I stopped watching either towards the end of season 3 or just after starting season 4
Hi, loved your video. But I think you're wrong about Quinn he is the main character/chosen one. He is not the smartest or the strongest or wins all the fights. He is the intersecting point through him everyone comes together. Elliot and Margot are involved because of Quinn. Alice only finds herself involved because of Quinn, the same as for Julia and Penny. You can argue it was the Beast that brought Penny, but we're thinking of future events, the Beast only targeted Penny because of his future connection to Quinn. Quinn is the character that brings everyone to the table. Without him, it doesn't work. That is why I think he is still the chosen one.
I'm with you on almost everything, but when you start getting into the idea of the timelines, and pushing Julia out and such, you act like pushing her out, and what she goes through, is known or forced, but the entire point was that other things HAD been tried, this hadn't (pushing her away), and it was what amounted to a last ditch effort. She had already tried the obvious stuff, and she didn't know exactly what would happen to Julia. You ask what would happen if it was Quintin pushed out, but, that was most likely another timeline. He died 39 times along those timelines, and most likely everyone, or almost everyone from his little group along with him. No one ever gained enough power, enough foresight, enough gusto, to take out the beast, they just die.
I also assumed she had tried to interfere when he was younger, if/when she was able, but they make it clear she doesn't just have full and utter control over time, or the timeline. She's not a god, but a person working within timelines to shift them. Jane's explanation does make sense, she isn't omniscient, she is trying to calculate the butterfly effect of her actions through literal time, to see the defeat of someone far stronger than herself, without dying herself.
I thought they even mentioned how amazing Julia was in the other loops, which is why pushing her away wasn't done earlier.
They don't "consider" her "creating" these situations, because as Fogg says (with truth serum), they keep getting involved. She isn't CAUSING the situation, she isn't orchestrating their involvement, she's editing it, out of desperation to fix things. In the original timeline, they die, and even with edits, they've died 39 times more, so it doesn't make much sense to somehow blame or target Jane as CREATING these situations any more than they do. You don't really target the only reason you're alive and go "how dare you mess with my fate of losing and dying a horrible death!" In my mind the characters all try to accept that this was the only time they won, and as horrible as some things had been, the alternative was losing it all.
Her dying also means we don't get to know (of course, for the story to take place, it had to be this way) what she might have tried to fix, alter, correct, if she was alive. Maybe she was willing to keep editing down the timeline as much as she could once they found a way, to have the cleanest nicest timeline possible, but she can't do that now. Again, the book and show would have just not worked if she could keep going, so for the narrative, she has to die.
I'm not saying it wouldn't have been nice to hear her explain that the obvious routes made him stronger, or didn't work for x y z, or have her explain more limitations of her abilities or something, but I also feel like we were given more than enough to understand that she couldn't just walk up to him and say "hey, don't do that, bad" and he would magically be a good person, and that all of the main characters die in nice timelines. In the end someone had to be pushed well past reasonable, and that someone turned out to be Julia.
Also nothing you said about misogyny or white male protagonist is reasonable given what we see/hear. It's like you want to see it that way when it's anything but. You just didn't understand the time loops, how long she had been doing this, and the obvious idea that telling them didn't work. Then about Fen, you see it as joking AT her, or treating her poorly, when it's more played as the absurdity of it all. This is all crazy, crappy, shitty, no one is where they WANT to be, and you seem to think characters like Margo are seen in a good light, they're not. Margo's redemption over time is in SPITE of her ways. She's thrust into trying/doing, when she doesn't want to or want to care, and when she finally starts to take things into her own hands and get things done, she's finally not being selfish.... Do you really not see that?
I particularly loved the first and third season.
Killing of Quentin was really the death blow of the show - he maybe wasn't the main person narratively - but he was the emotional center holding bonds to all others.
Without him something was clearly missing
Seen the show twice, read the books, and visual novel. Finally a 2 hour long video essay drops
The praise "have you seen my bambi" still gives me goosebumps
It felt like a show that was written like fan fiction: serialized and constantly changing to fit the audience and not always the plot (I did still like it though, of course)
omg i've been waiting for a good Magicians video analysis! thank you for this
when i first read the books, i wanted it to be a movie. then years later talks of it being a series came up and i was so hyped. and although the budget from syfy isnt that big, it did bring the book justice.
Stopped once when Alice died. Then stopped again when Q died. Tried again and just started to hate if after a while. Cool to see something about it cause I knew I'd never finish.
same, when Q died the show dont really feel the same
Quinton was never the main character. He was the perspective character. Killing him off to subvert the straight white male lead was so misplaced. Q was never the most important character nor the main character, he was just the audiences point of perspective into this world. The writers took that away and the show suffered greatly for it.
yeah and also it wasn't the showrunners decision the actor wanted out
@@M24071 It was a depressing role...
They very explicitly pointed out that he wasn't the perspective character, nor did they kill him off to "subvert the straight white male lead."
He wasn't a straight white male to begin with. He was very much in love with Eliot. He wasn't the audience's point of perspective. There were lots of things that never had anything to do with Quentin.
He was a linchpin that held all the other storylines together and without him the show really didn't work.
@@Venjamin No, he was straight to begin with. There was zero hinting towards him being anything else up until the whole Elliot/Quentin and they only brought that storyline back after a very vocal part of the fan base lost their shit over it and wanted more.
ive been looking for a good deep dive into this show and youve delivered! I fell in love with the show during the pandemic and was going trying to cope with how season 5 ended.
Unfortunately, the whole power transfer via sex fluid is not unheard of across mythology. So in keeping with taking the fictional and giving it a darker lense, it actually made a lot of sense to me.
I read these as they were coming out and was so excited for the show. Then I watched a few episodes and couldn't stand it. It wasn’t until a friend told me things got better in season 2 that i suffered through it. And season 2 was good, not great. Season 3 actually had me wanting to watch more, but there wasn’t any yet. I honestly thought it got cancelled or something lol. If anything, thanks for the reminder to watch the rest.
Omg!!! A long magicians video essay. My dreams have come true!!!
This was a very World of Darkness RPG show. Got so many Mage the Ascension and Changeling the Dreaming vibes.
Million percent yes. I loved this vibe about it also
Finally!
This commentary is not for the faint of spirit!
Thank you for tackling this, you-Brave You.
🍿
This is a really good video essay on The Magicians! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and perception on all it, you really hit on the head what bothered me about how the show treated Fen.
I loved the dark fantasy of this show, but I personally found so many of the characters (namely Quinton) absolutely infuriating. I just couldn't get past season 2 because I spent more time yelling than enjoying.
This is coming from someone that really enjoys dark fantasy, from Warhammer fantasy to Dragon Age to Song of Ice and Fire, etc. I love fantasy stories that exclusively aren't sunshine and rainbows... But the most interesting worlds can't overcome an annoying main character.
This show was my everything while it aired, and I still carry it in my heart today. Under Pressure always makes me smile, and Margo will forever be one of my favorite characters in… any piece of media. Thanks for making this video :)
I've watched the entire series from beginning to end over 25 times. Each time, I learn something new. There are layers and layers of meaning, metaphor, parallelism, psychology, simile, and comparison. Move beyond the superficiality of a plot and storyline. "Magic comes from pain" is why Dean Fogg yells at Quentin "Do some God Damn magic!" The entire series is this way. Everything is something of a message with deep meaning and purpose.
I think the fall down in season 4 is where they too the biggest step away from the books, and it seems like they fumbled it. Im guessing without having it plotted out as well things fell off the rails.
Such great timing! I literally just finish re-reading the first book so that I can start the second and have slowly started re-binging the series. I never finished the final season (for the same reason as many other people), but I’m going to push through this time.
this was such an amazing video!! it's so nice to see this show talked about again after so long
this series has a really special place in my heart, to watch this video essay was a great reminder why I love it so much
at the time s4 aired my partner (who reminded me a lot of Quentin) had recently died by suicide so it was an extra blow to see one of my favorite characters die in such a hollow way. The show basically sent the message that suicide is the answer to feeling lost and purposeless and that self sacrifice is the ultimate conclusion to mental health struggles. A super messed up message to send. I used to love the Magicians but I think the show runners misunderstood their own show/ story. Yes it’s subversive and a story of struggle but it felt like trauma p*rn at times and virtue signaling at others. It was “wink wink, nudge nudge” but not in a way that, retrospectively, was fully enjoyable, warranted, or made narrative sense. Subversive media like the 1st Scream movie works because while it subverts expectations, it’s not just going for shock value- there’s narrative purpose. I wanted to keep my love for the Magicians alive but s4 tainted all the positives for me. It did many things right and interesting but it also did many questionable things that send harmful messages. Despite trying to subvert tropes the show runners fell into traps they tried to avoid and then went: look were progressive because we have a diverse cast/ female characters aren’t 100% pure, etc. But it was hollow and often came across as misogynistic or at the expense of a character’s identity or personal struggles which is arguably not progressive at all. Thank you for making this video. I’m glad to know others feel similarly all this time later
I feel like the biggest mistake was making their fantasy world so absurd and annoying. They seemed to forget that if it was really underwhelming and foolish it would seem weird for two adults to be obsessed with the book series.
1:11 To be fair GOT doesn't really have star power either. If anything that show created stars which are now faded.
Sean bean was already a big star.
Jason momoa wasn't as popular but he also was a familiar and popular face.
I loved The Magicians, it really was something special. I was sad when it ended but the series finale was bittersweet
I really enjoyed these books I had no idea there was a series.
This show was and absolute gem, until the seond last season, when... oh well.
Can you please cover The Librarians series next
😭 that Show became so corny but it was my shit.
@@Zxykary Maaaan I loved it
Damn, this show hasn’t been on my mind since I shared the last episode with my since divorced wife. Brings back so many good and bad memories. Thanks for this video❤. I won’t watch it because it hurts, but thank you for making it ❤
Watched this show when it came out years ago and rewatched it this year. I looked hard to find an in-depth analysis on it but couldn't find one. Imagine my surprise when the algorithm gods presented this to me. Exactly what I was hoping to see. The show is honestly very decent and I really grew attached to the characters. Thank you for giving it the attention it deserves.
I would argue that season 4 was the dichotomy of chaos vs order and how they can look like and how they can both be boring and mundane and unpredictable. On how antagonists looking for order doesn't have to be flashy or cool - it can be as sinister as being boring.
Time for a rewatch binge! I liked how the magic was built in this show, it had a lot of structure and intention.
1:08 bear with me, I hope this makes sense. I've never liked Jane so I'm not defending her but I think it's like a bell that can't be unrung. In the first timeline, Martin is abused so Martin becomes the beast. She creates the second timeline and best case scenario she figures out how to stop the abuse in timeline 2 - beast martin is already strong enough to remember the other timeline, so even if she stops the abuse, the trauma that led him to want to be strong enough to never be abused again is still there, so he still pursues the beast path. The fact that she's strong enough to create new timelines happens because he's already strong enough to remember discarded timelines. Like a snake eating its tail
Honestly very well could be! Not a bad theory at all. I wish the show elaborated on her efforts more, in this particular or any other way - would have made her more justified in her actions
@andrewreviews yeah I like the alternate timeline because we got Penny 23 but the show could have made Jane a stronger character by showing more of her efforts. Instead we got psycho Dean Fogg 😂
"wait, am i dreaming?!" - "if you were...how would asking me help?"
loved it, miss it, but am also happy that it got a planned ending.
Great video! I randomly remembered this show - I loved it, flaws and all - and decided to look up if it was still being talked about! So happy it is.
Going to subscribe. You set this whole video up very well. Thanks for the content!
I beg anyone who liked the show but was dissappinted to read the books. Q lives in the books.
This is my favorite show of all time. I've watched it 14 times already. It's so good. It's dramatic, it's funny, it's sad, it's inspiring, it's comforting, it's everything.
Thanks for putting it into words. That's exactly how i feel when i watch it. On my 5th rewatch
I just learned through this video there is a 5th season. brb i got a season to binge
Finally! Thank you for this, I was wondering/hoping if I'd end up being the first to do a big ol' essay on one of my (almost) favorite shows on here or if someone would beat me to it - and I'm grateful you did
To me it felt like the shows thesis' was that every person is in some way a main character. They show it by making each "side" character hint to having a life just as rich and complex as the protagonists. Killing Quentin (after giving him a really good end to his arc imho) forces focus on every other character which again was the point. The last season wasnt about saving the world. Its the characters coping with the death of a friend which feels like the end of the world. But just like the show aludes to at the end, thw world keeps going on to the next adventure.
Lol, this has not faded in my life. I just keep making new friends rewatch it with me. I know I need to make new friends when I’ve finished Magicians with the most recent ones 😂
This is an excellent deconstruction of the show. Truly eye opening and intriguing to watch.
Thank you for such detailed and well thought out critiqué, It’s always wonderful to see someone else’s perspective and discover new things.
I have a few pointers.
1. Second season is not “disjointed” in my opinion it is an exploration of life after coming of age. You graduate - you move on with your life. It’s only fitting for the ensemble to lead their own stories which might have little to nothing in common. From that perspective it is coherent. Perfect execution of a concept in my opinion.
2. You’ve spent half of your theses praising show for subversion of the tropes, yet you expect The Order to be revealed as a secret powerful entity with nefarious agenda? That’s a trope show supposed to follow for some reason? No, librarians are exactly what their supposed to be. An ancient superpower which were hogging knowledge and expertise for so long it became overly bureaucratic, rusted to the core and conforming to the point of incompetence. Once a leading power and a beacon of calmness in turbulent ocean of magic becoming a swamp of rotted ideas and decomposing principles is a perfectly suited addition to the world of “Magicians”. And a reflection on how corporations and/or governments seemingly invincible turned out to be an empty husk existing for the sole purpose of desperately clinging onto status quo.
3. In my opinion show is masterfully navigates the art of building up to a logical and often mundane resolution deeply rooted in reflection on reality while banging on all bells and blowing on all whistles it could get it hands on in order to lure you into false feeling that you know what’s coming. So yeah I’ve also fall its victim and hated some choices or reveals or plot dead ends or just the general feeling about the season, but watching for the second or third time I’ve started to see more and more depths. Was it put in intentionally or comes naturally matters not. That’s how art works. I personally see this series not as an entertainment but rather as a piece of art.
been waiting for someone to truly WAKE IT when it comes to this show
This was my ALL TIME favorite show and I was devastated when it ended. Like I lost my best friend 😢 which is weird cuz I never feel that way from a show. But after the show ended, I got the books and read them lmao. I still miss this group.
I loved this show, it has flaws, of course, but at least it tries and that was always a breath of fresh air. But, one of my biggest disappointments was that they didn't allow Quentin and Eliot to end up together Which I think was the natural progression for them. I also think they wasted the penny and Kady relationship. While forcing a relationship on Julia did nothing for her story, which would have been much better left as a battle of self-improvement.
I agree. It felt like everyone needed a romantic relationship and it was Julia’s turn especially since they killed off Richard so abruptly. She had a partner that introduced her to healthy magic but the whole power from pain thing helped ruin that. It’s like they didn’t want to introduce a new character so they brought back Josh for Margo and had Richard serve two characters. Not to mention the friendship she built with Kady, I hate how they kept throwing her away and that she’s never seen filory outside of that music number for Margo and that was in the desert. Penny 40 could’ve spent more them learning about this timeline not just lying that he didn’t just replace the Julia from his timeline because they sound exactly the same. It’s like the writers realized they painted a corner for Penny in the end. Julia was always going to choose the next challenge and Penny in any timeline has kinda been over the magic but from the jump when he was always pushing to leave breakbills. The control force was always Quinton and definitely the beast.
I really enjoyed watching The Magicians during 2020. I think seasons 1 and 2 were interesting in setting up the world and connections but couldn't really get into how dark it was, but I stayed watching because of how much I enjoyed the margo and elliot hijinks in fillory. S3 was a lot more fun to watch and s4 was like a gut punch but in a 'sad but beautiful' sort of way. I also enjoyed both the s3 and s4 in how they felt more structured and character driven, the increased introduction of fillory which allowed for a lighter vibe to contrast the human world, as well as their respective musical episodes. I'm glad to see somebody do such an in-depth review of this series that I greatly enjoy (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*.✧
that's really funny cause i was just talking to someone about how much I loved this show and boom this pops up
I have a hedge witch tattoo. The show makes my heart so happy as messy as it can be. I hope one day I can make or get replicas of the keys