Linux was never particularly short of programs because there was all the x11 stuff from the 80s and 90s that you could run, and of course all the Unix stuff.
I have two systems for the feeling of early Linux: Haiku and FreeBSD. On FreeBSD you also have to know nearly everything just to make the system work with your hardware. Sure, FreeBSD supports more than Haiku does, but it's still far behind of what Linux supports today.
Please donate to the development of Haiku if u want to donate Haiku /BeOS was actually intended and engineered from *_day one_* to become a home desktop OS…. *UNLIKE LINUX*
It has one paid and a lot of folks that help out on their own time. And some Linux people do help out. And the user base it do have is really active an help out way more than Linux users do with linux, there are just not that many users.
Yellow Dog Linux was my first introduction to Linux around 2004. There were compatibility lists all over the website which (PowerPC) macs were supported, and what parts were supported. WLAN didn't work, sound might not have worked, on some models graphical environments didn't even work. Linux might have been in a better state in the pc area back then, but PowerPC Linux was a struggle, but still enjoyable. I still have an mSATA (harddrive replacement) for my G3 clamshell iBook so I can run Yellow Dog Linux on it, as it used to be.
I had yellowdog Linux running on a powermac 7200. It didn't have WLAN, but everything worked on my 7200. You could even run macos in linux with maconlinux. But in these days you also could have Beos running on powrmacs.
I remember that time. I don't know that I would call it the good ole days of Linux though. Things were too complicated for the average Joe. You had to WANT to run Linux. Things are really good now. I don't know if I really want to go back to that, but I do have a PC that I could load Haiku on and try it.
Well, with distros dropping X11 support Linux is on a fast-track back to the days of nothing working and having to vet your hardware, so I guess we're all gonna get a taste of those "good ole days" whether we want to or not.
@@crylune a system that actually fucking works > a system that is incrementally more secure, hypothetically. If you want absolute security, go use Windows S with no internet connection.
the thing with linux is that it gives you the tools to build your own OS. you can basically build anything with it and still have the vast library of linux software to use on it. these last year, i considered linux a viable operating system for the first time. something that can be a windows alternative. i ran it almost exclusively for several months and missed very little from windows... and in another couple of years, it may finally have reached a point where i can abandon windows. it just needs to make those final little hardware support hurdles.
I still build or buy computers to run Linux. If you don't, you'll be fucked. Example, Lenovo was talking about some point in having all their computers Linux compatible. Took a chance and bought a cheap thinkpad. I forget the problem now, i think keys didn't work because of some bios bug. This sort of thing happens all the time
Previously, I commented that a lot of open source software is too buggy. There I also mentioned haiku. I do think haiku is too buggy to be really usable. Of course, it's beta, so that is to be expected. What irritates me about haiku is that the programs developed on their own often times don't just work. I encounter quite a lot of freezing issues there for whatever reason. Also, I'm not able to install all the packages from haiku depots because of some crashes or freezing issues. The update system of haiku depots is not reliable as well. Quite often, the packages are more than 5 years outdated. I reported a lot of lua stuff to haikuports repo (the repo for haiku depots packages) to improve lua support in haiku. I also saw python 2 be the default python in haiku depots. There was a developer saying in haikuports that python 2 is dead. Well, if python 2 is dead, then why is it default. Stuff like that quite present in haiku. If you make a quick demo then these bugs are not immediately apparent. I get the impression that haiku ports a lot of other open source software to get additional functionality like youtube in web positive. That worries me. I much rather prefer that the programs developed on their own just work without any issues to get the BeOS experience. I really don't care about the youtube support in web positive and I don't praise it like everyone else. I also don't really care about hardware support, driver support, gaming support, more resolutions in virtualbox etc. To get an idea, the youtube functionality in a web browser is very complex. The web browser needs to be really advanced. Haiku has ported webkit engine to web positive to get an advanced web browser. Porting foreign open source software to your system which hasn't been tested for it is risky. Almost always if ported software gets compiles it won't just work out of the box. Only under heavy modification and testing that software will properly work. Integrating foreign software is extremely hard work and to a certain extent is as hard as to write the software from scratch. Porting too much foreign software can make the system buggy and unreliable. I'm also not a fan of porting stuff like X windowing system to haiku. Haiku has already a much better designed GUI system than the X garbage in unix. It makes little sense to support X other than compatibility. Sometimes, adding new features subtract the actual value of the system. I wish the haiku developers would focus more on improving their own programs than porting foreign open source software.
Thanks for your comment; I for one appreciate your perspective and am grateful that you're mentioning these issues. Still, it is a beta, as you're well aware, and it could be quite some time yet before Haiku finally reaches 1.0. And isn't it usually wise to wait for 1.0.1, or even 1.1? It seems we're in for a long wait indeed.
@@bcarr1122 Well, as you just mentioned, I'm aware that haiku is beta now and that there is still a lot to do for it. Definitely, it takes time. What I mostly criticize about haiku is the direction it follows. Haiku focuses a lot on porting existing open source software. That is probably where the most of the development time goes into. The porting of existing software is the part where I dislike the most about haiku and alternative operating systems in general. Haiku has a massive potential to be a successor of BeOS. But because of porting software the OS is slowly going to be perceived the same as any other. So, porting existing legacy software constantly devaluates the system. It strips off its characteristics. Additionally, as previously mentioned, it makes it bug prone too as well as hard to maintain. Once haiku reaches 1.0, it's not going to be exiting for me. There is not much to see from the OS itself, because too much of the development time went into porting legacy software. Previously, I made an example with the youtube functionality in web positive. There, I mentioned the port of webkit into web positive. In my opinion, web positive would be better off if its browser engine is being written from scratch. That sounds insane in the modern web days and would be way too much work. The browser engine doesn't have to be advanced. Rendering and parsing of HTML and CSS with a basic javascript interpreter and dom as well as https and image support suffices for the beginning. With that, haiku shows that it has a lot to offer on its own. Also there, is room for improvements and os specific optimizations and design, which is certainly not the case with the webkit port, in which there is only room for making it properly work. In my observation, a lot of alternative OSes, including haiku, have a tendency to become a unix-like OS. As such, attractive for hardcore nerds, but meaningless for everyone else. Those nerds like to tinker around and make random stuff barely work but have little capability in design and clear thinking. They have a strong influence on haiku because haiku is like unix and has a posix compatible API. They like the porting of open source software, especially the ones written for linux. In my opinion, as explained above, this devaluates haiku. I mean really, porting of linux software and X stuff has the only purpose for nerds to have a giant boner. For anyone who just wants to have a BeOS experience, this is mostly pointless.
Fun Fact: if u play this video at 2x speed your accent becomes asian!
ปีที่แล้ว +1
Haiku has come a long way already, but it needs donations to help pay developers. So for those of you who want to see it flourish, please donate to the project.
Haiku/BeOS feels nothing like Linux, or how Linux used to feel back in the day. So I really don't know what you're talking here, apart from an abstract feeling of "not well supported hardware or software". I first tried BeOS in 1998, and Linux in 1999 I believe. Night and day in terms of usability. BeOS might not have supported much hardware, but it was EXTREMELY easy to use and install. Linux was a total nightmare at the same era. What BeOS didn't have was hoards of developers making apps for it. The two OSes have nothing in common.
I mailed BeOS from 98 to 2000. have ran linux since 96. and what I am talking about is now the codebase, or how it's coded, run or the ideas of it. I know this is hard to understand for a lot of people, but I am talking about it's essence, the community feel, the over all state and support Haiku OS get's and so on. Haiku OS a small, hubby OS that is done and maintained by a small set of people, just like linux was back be fore massive money took it over, and corporate politics ruined in along side GNU. That's what I mean but Haiku OS if what Linux used to be. And that gives is a servant "feel" Ho it's setup, run and configured is how it is on a technically side! Those two are not the same!
@@KentsTechWorld The two projects couldn't be more different in terms of code, philosophy and usability. I used to run OSNews and before that, BeNews (the main news site for beos). I also ended up getting married with a Be, Inc. engineer... BeOS and Haiku couldn't be more different than Linux in almost all dimensions. What drove Linux users in the 90s was ideology. BeOS didn't have an ideology base, it had a usability fan base.
You are not getting the point. I am not talking about the tech I am talking about the feel, the community, they feel of a hobby os etc. You talking about the tech. And I am not compering BeOS to Linux, I am compering Haiku OS to Linux, than the way Haiku OS is run, used and developed are not the same, and the users are mostly not the same. So you talk about the tech background. I talk about the community feel and things like that! one talk apples, one talk bananas lol
I run Ubuntu 4.10 in a VM and that is a far as I'm prepared to go back with Linux. Say 2002 my son did buy a system with Linux and he asked me for help. After 5 minutes with an unknown command line I decided to install Windows XP for him. Afterwards everybody was very happy :) :) In 2005 I tried Ubuntu 5.04 on a surplus Pentium II and I was impressed :) In 2008 I bought a laptop with Windows Vista and I remembered Ubuntu :)
I tried to install Ubuntu on my old pc in 2013. It was in the live environment and I thought it was installed. I rebooted and Windows was back. I had no idea what happened. I never touched Linux again until 2020 when I made a fake Mac OS to fool my friends, it was actually Linux Mint. If it was this bad like haiku I would have ran and never looked back.
Another Non-Programer talks about Haiku, means he just playing around with now clue what and how to do it! Fukz At least he knew that you can program C++ and GCC13 with Haiku!
Sorry I am a programmer 😂😂😂 and I been using haiku since it started and beos before that, beos was my main driver in 2000. And if you had a little amount of brain you would understand that the video is not about showcasing haiku, but just a little talk about what it represents and how it has that yearly years of Linux feeling. So you are sadly the one that have no clue, and I doubt you are a programmer yourself 😜 but again it’s easy to play smart when you don’t know what you talk about I guess
Linux is not special, in how it was in the past. Many other OS-es out there, each of them "strugling" depending on how popular they are. More people use => more develpers use them => better software and hardware support. That's pretty much it. For me, Linux is already too popular, manifested in too much choice, too much fragmentation, too much overlap or inconsistencies etc. In the end: you try an OS (be it Haiku or some BSD flavor or other): if it works on your HW, good, not - move on and try next.
well, i think this shit about politics ect. become problem with accecible internet. oldar days concentration of nerds was much higher so they solved problems. nowdays kids, swj etc in descussion about systemd, gnu\mit\otheshit linux, "this year will be greatest to linux" after lunch win11 :) ... imho
It's relly amazing how far linux has come since those days. I m always the type of person to wish I was there from the start of things to see how they have evolved to the point they are at now. But with linux? nah lol. I been a full time linux user for maybe 8 or 9 months now and a year ago alone I would of never imagined that especially since I play games so much. I was really surprised at how much of the work I did on windows was easy to do on to do on linux and with all the games I played (for the most part) worked on linux it just made it easy to go full time on it. But to think of the early days when things weren't so simple to get it working? nah, definitely would never be me lol.
Linux was never particularly short of programs because there was all the x11 stuff from the 80s and 90s that you could run, and of course all the Unix stuff.
I have two systems for the feeling of early Linux: Haiku and FreeBSD. On FreeBSD you also have to know nearly everything just to make the system work with your hardware. Sure, FreeBSD supports more than Haiku does, but it's still far behind of what Linux supports today.
have you tried NetBsd? they say it supports more HW
Please donate to the development of Haiku if u want to donate
Haiku /BeOS was actually intended and engineered from *_day one_* to become a home desktop OS….
*UNLIKE LINUX*
I remember when the Linux Kernel turned 1.0...
Haiku OS has ONE developer. I think that someone from the Linux community should lend a hand. I used BeOS 5 back in the day and I loved it.
It has one paid and a lot of folks that help out on their own time. And some Linux people do help out.
And the user base it do have is really active an help out way more than Linux users do with linux, there are just not that many users.
Why don't you do it?
@@godnyx117 Because I'm not a programmer that experienced. I programmed line interpreted BASIC and i8085A and that's it.
@@Ensue85A Well, I find this as a great excuse to learn and have fun!
Compiling winmodem modules for the linux kernel. Ah! Good times!
I can still remember waiting a whole day for my internet connection to download SuSE Linux 9.0
Yellow Dog Linux was my first introduction to Linux around 2004. There were compatibility lists all over the website which (PowerPC) macs were supported, and what parts were supported. WLAN didn't work, sound might not have worked, on some models graphical environments didn't even work. Linux might have been in a better state in the pc area back then, but PowerPC Linux was a struggle, but still enjoyable. I still have an mSATA (harddrive replacement) for my G3 clamshell iBook so I can run Yellow Dog Linux on it, as it used to be.
I had yellowdog Linux running on a powermac 7200. It didn't have WLAN, but everything worked on my 7200. You could even run macos in linux with maconlinux.
But in these days you also could have Beos running on powrmacs.
BeOS was my daily driver 20 years ago. It's very nostalgic.
I remember that time. I don't know that I would call it the good ole days of Linux though. Things were too complicated for the average Joe. You had to WANT to run Linux. Things are really good now. I don't know if I really want to go back to that, but I do have a PC that I could load Haiku on and try it.
“The good old days” refers to the memories and not so much how useful it was. It’s a reflection statement more than a fact
Well, with distros dropping X11 support Linux is on a fast-track back to the days of nothing working and having to vet your hardware, so I guess we're all gonna get a taste of those "good ole days" whether we want to or not.
@@RunePonyRamblings good, x11 is trash for security anyway
@@crylune a system that actually fucking works > a system that is incrementally more secure, hypothetically.
If you want absolute security, go use Windows S with no internet connection.
the thing with linux is that it gives you the tools to build your own OS. you can basically build anything with it and still have the vast library of linux software to use on it.
these last year, i considered linux a viable operating system for the first time. something that can be a windows alternative. i ran it almost exclusively for several months and missed very little from windows... and in another couple of years, it may finally have reached a point where i can abandon windows. it just needs to make those final little hardware support hurdles.
i arleady abandoned windows.
@crylune things going on in the linux kernel recently, and Linux world in general have cast doubts on the whole enterprise for me.
I still build or buy computers to run Linux. If you don't, you'll be fucked. Example, Lenovo was talking about some point in having all their computers Linux compatible. Took a chance and bought a cheap thinkpad. I forget the problem now, i think keys didn't work because of some bios bug. This sort of thing happens all the time
Is it available on an extreme amount of architectures?!
Previously, I commented that a lot of open source software is too buggy. There I also mentioned haiku. I do think haiku is too buggy to be really usable. Of course, it's beta, so that is to be expected. What irritates me about haiku is that the programs developed on their own often times don't just work. I encounter quite a lot of freezing issues there for whatever reason. Also, I'm not able to install all the packages from haiku depots because of some crashes or freezing issues. The update system of haiku depots is not reliable as well. Quite often, the packages are more than 5 years outdated. I reported a lot of lua stuff to haikuports repo (the repo for haiku depots packages) to improve lua support in haiku. I also saw python 2 be the default python in haiku depots. There was a developer saying in haikuports that python 2 is dead. Well, if python 2 is dead, then why is it default. Stuff like that quite present in haiku. If you make a quick demo then these bugs are not immediately apparent.
I get the impression that haiku ports a lot of other open source software to get additional functionality like youtube in web positive. That worries me. I much rather prefer that the programs developed on their own just work without any issues to get the BeOS experience. I really don't care about the youtube support in web positive and I don't praise it like everyone else. I also don't really care about hardware support, driver support, gaming support, more resolutions in virtualbox etc. To get an idea, the youtube functionality in a web browser is very complex. The web browser needs to be really advanced. Haiku has ported webkit engine to web positive to get an advanced web browser. Porting foreign open source software to your system which hasn't been tested for it is risky. Almost always if ported software gets compiles it won't just work out of the box. Only under heavy modification and testing that software will properly work. Integrating foreign software is extremely hard work and to a certain extent is as hard as to write the software from scratch. Porting too much foreign software can make the system buggy and unreliable.
I'm also not a fan of porting stuff like X windowing system to haiku. Haiku has already a much better designed GUI system than the X garbage in unix. It makes little sense to support X other than compatibility. Sometimes, adding new features subtract the actual value of the system.
I wish the haiku developers would focus more on improving their own programs than porting foreign open source software.
Thanks for your comment; I for one appreciate your perspective and am grateful that you're mentioning these issues. Still, it is a beta, as you're well aware, and it could be quite some time yet before Haiku finally reaches 1.0. And isn't it usually wise to wait for 1.0.1, or even 1.1? It seems we're in for a long wait indeed.
@@bcarr1122 Well, as you just mentioned, I'm aware that haiku is beta now and that there is still a lot to do for it. Definitely, it takes time. What I mostly criticize about haiku is the direction it follows. Haiku focuses a lot on porting existing open source software. That is probably where the most of the development time goes into. The porting of existing software is the part where I dislike the most about haiku and alternative operating systems in general. Haiku has a massive potential to be a successor of BeOS. But because of porting software the OS is slowly going to be perceived the same as any other. So, porting existing legacy software constantly devaluates the system. It strips off its characteristics. Additionally, as previously mentioned, it makes it bug prone too as well as hard to maintain. Once haiku reaches 1.0, it's not going to be exiting for me. There is not much to see from the OS itself, because too much of the development time went into porting legacy software.
Previously, I made an example with the youtube functionality in web positive. There, I mentioned the port of webkit into web positive. In my opinion, web positive would be better off if its browser engine is being written from scratch. That sounds insane in the modern web days and would be way too much work. The browser engine doesn't have to be advanced. Rendering and parsing of HTML and CSS with a basic javascript interpreter and dom as well as https and image support suffices for the beginning. With that, haiku shows that it has a lot to offer on its own. Also there, is room for improvements and os specific optimizations and design, which is certainly not the case with the webkit port, in which there is only room for making it properly work.
In my observation, a lot of alternative OSes, including haiku, have a tendency to become a unix-like OS. As such, attractive for hardcore nerds, but meaningless for everyone else. Those nerds like to tinker around and make random stuff barely work but have little capability in design and clear thinking. They have a strong influence on haiku because haiku is like unix and has a posix compatible API. They like the porting of open source software, especially the ones written for linux. In my opinion, as explained above, this devaluates haiku. I mean really, porting of linux software and X stuff has the only purpose for nerds to have a giant boner. For anyone who just wants to have a BeOS experience, this is mostly pointless.
Fun Fact: if u play this video at 2x speed your accent becomes asian!
Haiku has come a long way already, but it needs donations to help pay developers. So for those of you who want to see it flourish, please donate to the project.
I think the term you're looking for is esprit d corps (forgive my horrid french). That died in Linux some decades ago.
Haiku feels more consistent than Linux. In some ways, I've enjoyed it more than Linux.
i actually used BeOS back in the 90s
Bees for life
Haiku/BeOS feels nothing like Linux, or how Linux used to feel back in the day. So I really don't know what you're talking here, apart from an abstract feeling of "not well supported hardware or software". I first tried BeOS in 1998, and Linux in 1999 I believe. Night and day in terms of usability. BeOS might not have supported much hardware, but it was EXTREMELY easy to use and install. Linux was a total nightmare at the same era. What BeOS didn't have was hoards of developers making apps for it. The two OSes have nothing in common.
I mailed BeOS from 98 to 2000. have ran linux since 96.
and what I am talking about is now the codebase, or how it's coded, run or the ideas of it.
I know this is hard to understand for a lot of people, but I am talking about it's essence, the community feel, the over all state and support Haiku OS get's and so on.
Haiku OS a small, hubby OS that is done and maintained by a small set of people, just like linux was back be fore massive money took it over, and corporate politics ruined in along side GNU.
That's what I mean but Haiku OS if what Linux used to be.
And that gives is a servant "feel"
Ho it's setup, run and configured is how it is on a technically side!
Those two are not the same!
@@KentsTechWorld The two projects couldn't be more different in terms of code, philosophy and usability. I used to run OSNews and before that, BeNews (the main news site for beos). I also ended up getting married with a Be, Inc. engineer... BeOS and Haiku couldn't be more different than Linux in almost all dimensions. What drove Linux users in the 90s was ideology. BeOS didn't have an ideology base, it had a usability fan base.
You are not getting the point.
I am not talking about the tech I am talking about the feel, the community, they feel of a hobby os etc. You talking about the tech.
And I am not compering BeOS to Linux, I am compering Haiku OS to Linux, than the way Haiku OS is run, used and developed are not the same, and the users are mostly not the same.
So you talk about the tech background.
I talk about the community feel and things like that!
one talk apples, one talk bananas lol
If that how Linux used to be, then I don't want it, I wanna use my operating system not fuck around with it for hours.
I dont like how mainstream linux is becoming more like Microsoft and apple to keylogger you and etc.
Are you braindead
Please never comment again.
Why would I want to use a next to abandoned operating system?
I run Ubuntu 4.10 in a VM and that is a far as I'm prepared to go back with Linux.
Say 2002 my son did buy a system with Linux and he asked me for help. After 5 minutes with an unknown command line I decided to install Windows XP for him. Afterwards everybody was very happy :) :)
In 2005 I tried Ubuntu 5.04 on a surplus Pentium II and I was impressed :) In 2008 I bought a laptop with Windows Vista and I remembered Ubuntu :)
Haiku looks like the ultimate nerd playground 💪😅
I tried to install Ubuntu on my old pc in 2013. It was in the live environment and I thought it was installed. I rebooted and Windows was back. I had no idea what happened. I never touched Linux again until 2020 when I made a fake Mac OS to fool my friends, it was actually Linux Mint. If it was this bad like haiku I would have ran and never looked back.
Do you think FreeBSD is closer to the Linux experience and Haiku?
"HaikuOS is what Linux used to be."
Since when was Linux a Single-User System?
🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
Another Non-Programer talks about Haiku, means he just playing around with now clue what and how to do it! Fukz
At least he knew that you can program C++ and GCC13 with Haiku!
Sorry I am a programmer 😂😂😂 and I been using haiku since it started and beos before that, beos was my main driver in 2000. And if you had a little amount of brain you would understand that the video is not about showcasing haiku, but just a little talk about what it represents and how it has that yearly years of Linux feeling. So you are sadly the one that have no clue, and I doubt you are a programmer yourself 😜 but again it’s easy to play smart when you don’t know what you talk about I guess
I agree. (For a while I was afraid you weren't going to use profanity.)
It comes and goes lol.
Linux is not special, in how it was in the past. Many other OS-es out there, each of them "strugling" depending on how popular they are. More people use => more develpers use them => better software and hardware support. That's pretty much it.
For me, Linux is already too popular, manifested in too much choice, too much fragmentation, too much overlap or inconsistencies etc.
In the end: you try an OS (be it Haiku or some BSD flavor or other): if it works on your HW, good, not - move on and try next.
well, i think this shit about politics ect. become problem with accecible internet. oldar days concentration of nerds was much higher so they solved problems. nowdays kids, swj etc in descussion about systemd, gnu\mit\otheshit linux, "this year will be greatest to linux" after lunch win11 :) ...
imho
It's relly amazing how far linux has come since those days. I m always the type of person to wish I was there from the start of things to see how they have evolved to the point they are at now. But with linux? nah lol. I been a full time linux user for maybe 8 or 9 months now and a year ago alone I would of never imagined that especially since I play games so much. I was really surprised at how much of the work I did on windows was easy to do on to do on linux and with all the games I played (for the most part) worked on linux it just made it easy to go full time on it. But to think of the early days when things weren't so simple to get it working? nah, definitely would never be me lol.
Will this spawn a bunch of Haiku hipsters on Reddit? Stay tuned...
Lmao