I think the problem is that nobody is going to make Haiku-native software if there is no userbase... but users aren't going to flock to the OS if they can't do the things they need/want to do.
@@twocatsyelling723 Linux has been ready for the desktop for over a decade I've been daily driving Linux for much longer than that, but in the 90s it used to be a lot of work and now it's all just plug and play I don't know what the % is, but it's clearly enough because it's been a long time I have any real problems that I wouldn't have with Windows or Mac in one way or the other - perhaps less, generally speaking
I definitely agree. What started out as "we need to have a modern web browser" turned into "we need to port over, basically, everything that Linux/BSD has." The 1.0 release was simply supposed to be a drop in replacement for BeOS, and after that was supposed to be a focus on becoming more general purpose. At some point those goals got flipped and now they are adding features that they don't have the manpower for.
was an old time BeOS user since 3.0 .. in the later years i remember the only safe/updated browsers were either firefox compiled from source or Opera binaries.. unless there are people commited to writing core applications for Haiku a safer option for users will ultimately be third party software
I have always been very attracted to the BEOS design. I have not tried Haiku, mostly because I don't have time to load up an OS that I won't be able to get work done on. So it's one of those "I don't see the point of trying this" sort of thing.
Another thing it needs is a Web browser that can play videos (and in sync)…non streamed media has gotten better recently, but Web positive still won’t play videos on TH-cam or Rumble (or any other site)…didn’t it used to called the Media OS?
@@buttcube6085 apparently there is both a ARM and RISC-V port, but they are not finnished. I think the RISC-V port is more important because RISC-V is still slower than ARM so a lightweight OS like Haiku would be perfect for it, also less competition on RISC-V.
@@SkepticalCavemanin terms of commercially available CPUs RISC-V is slower but last I checked the fastest CPU on earth by a huge margin was a RISC-V one.
The politics issue is really disappointing. As far as the software goes, I actually think it's the right move to offer ports of LibreOffice etc. on day one, otherwise you end up with a version 1.0 that cannot be used for daily tasks, so nobody except developers would be able to make good use of it. Familiar software makes the transition easier, special optimized software can always come later. Then again, I see you point that Haiku loses its specialness, its reason for being if it's just another platform for all the things we already use elsewhere, except with a different UI and worse hardware support. What I personally would like to see from Haiku is a single killer app, something that showcases why such a massively multithreaded system is needed/better than what we currently have. If Haiku can't make that case for itself, then it will be hard to convince anyone to switch permanently.
@@helios8459 Live audio production with super low latency is easier and makes a bigger impact. Video editing is a huge can of worms and needs good GPU support and licensed codecs.
All the issues you note come down to one thing: Haiku doesn’t have a parent corporation behind it with deep pockets like main Linux distros do. Developers don’t want to spend time working for a niche os on which they will never see a real return. Haiku has come a long way in twenty years bud don’t expect it to become a premium os like Ubuntu, Fedora or openSUSE. The money and the resources aren’t there to make it happen.
Upvoting for passionate speech, but judging from watching Haiku history for last 15 years, I think they won't change anything and will slowly ship 1.0 somewhere in 2030
While I agree with a lot of what you say, I was unable to find any relevant content regarding HaikuOS on your media platforms; at least the ones that were not behind a pay/account wall which I have no intention of joining. It may be true that you have created the most journalistic Haiku content in the history of the world, but I can't find it. Would you mind offering a link to that content?
I find content in free forums and on sites (including "paywalls" dismissed simply by hitting "Continue") going back 10 years by simply Googling for "Bryan Lunduke Haiku".
The points 5, 6, 7 in your list are key for succeed or fail, if they dont start talking with mayor applications developers, like 3D, Architecture, Video editing, Photography and promote in social media, youtube, its going to fail, this OS is the "Crown Jewel" of the OS, its light, efficient, impressive performance, but no applications, I used it as BeOS ina my first MAC a lot of years ago and at that time was a lot better than original Mac OS as is today, its a lot better than any other OS, commercial OS of course, they must hir someone to take care of those points on your list to succeed, in my opinion. Excellent video!!!
On the issue of politics: "We are in this together." The project at the workplace might be seen as a metaphor: We have common problems, and in order to succeed we need to work out solutions together to which most of us can mostly agree - most often without regard in which place of the political spectrum we might be. Of course there are always differences in all places - but one cannot afford to alienate half of the department in the process. Some candidate in some current election actually said that in his or her closing address 😃.
True words! The tech world is in increasing need of a new secularization. A separation of politics and tech! I personally experienced this in the Rust language. This has to stop! Or potentially amazing tech will rot itself from the inside.
for better or worse, open source has largely become synonymous with expanded ecosystem, make everything work with everything else, implement all possible features. If someone takes this, makes it into a commercial product offering support, then it can be streamlined and can get focus, otherwise it is another attempt at ecosystem building, and for opensource that is linux today
I agree on your points, although I have not interacted with the Haiku community so I cannot attest for how they stand. I have listen to your podcasts for years (The Linux Action Show days) and I have no idea of your politics. I assume by the titles of the group mentioned you are considering yourself conservative. I would not of known that until you mentioning it. I still have no ideas on your political positions, because I haven't looked. I would bet we wouldn't see eye to eye. But the fact that I don't know and only have listened to your Linux and open source content, I appreciate. I agree that politics and jobs never work well. Perhaps philosophies can be argued regarding the goals of a project. But as long as everyone is open minded, that's fine. I don't know the details of the Haiku OS situation. I will certainly agree that I loved BeOS and wish the best for Haiku OS. BeOS was a beautiful thing and I want it to grow. IIRC it was famous for extremely efficient MP3 playback. I think I ran it on a Pentium MMX. Being a laymen I think if GTK and QT can function on Haiku, even with reduced performance, I think that is a good thing. Programming is always iterative. I mean remember how bad GTK app ports to Windows use to be? Function comes first. Feature creep is always an issue and does need leadership to keep down. It is usually more fun to make new things than fix the old problems.
I wish some of this was in article format. My views of interactions with the community have been positive. But both accounts of mine and Bryan are anecdotal. Citations needed man. I mean you have been around open source enough to know the way to fix things is to say something sucks. Please document what you think is feature creep and other issues.
Tried Haiku on the relatively old bear metal computer that runs Linux on dual boot without a single problem. Haiku froze on me a couple of times, so if I were doing some serious stuff, I would lose all my data. It's nice, and the core OS with the utilities it is shipped with is snappy and well-designed. But basic functionality is missing, such as proper control of sound and display. With the multitude of complex hardware, it is tough to see how Haiku will keep up with the basic expectations of the modern OS. Even much more popular, FreeBSD is struggling to provide a consistent desktop experience, with a very limited hardware base that it can utilize as a full desktop OS.
I was so excited when React OS, Haiku OS, and AROS all came out. I followed, tested, and donated to all the projects. I shared them with my friends as well. I was so happy that competitors appeared to challenge the norm. They all eventually fizzled out. On a side note, I wonder if one of the reasons why you receive so much hate, aside from exposing bad actors moving in bad faith, is because you refuse to engage in political debates. There is a very strange phenomenon where some people will actively target you if you _don't_ cover/talk about the things they are passionate about. They tend to view silence as either compliance or support.
Great message! Many industries could learn from your last point. All of tech, table top games, and comics... they all have become obsessed with polotics and the "correct" side lol.
All the problems of Haiku OS boil down to the fact it is a REAL open source operating system, made by TRUE grass roots hackers...and not a government and international corporation front company masquerading as a non-profit organization such is the case of the linux foundation..
I may be confused. I don't really recall any multi-threaded, multi-CPU, desktop systems back in the late 90s? By the late 90s, my home computer was rocking an AMD K6-II overclocked to just over 425 MHz and it was a beast compared to most other systems. I even had 512 MB of RAM (assuming I remember the system properly). I don't recall any multi-threaded/multi-CPU machines as desktops then. So, I'm not sure how you'd know the speed of such. It's safe to assume that I'm missing something. That happens often.
HI, in 99, the compagny ABit sold a motherboard called Abit BP6. it was a dual cpu motherboard. I had one with 2 celerons CPU. In fact, Beos is the reason I bought this motherboard. I wanred to experience Beos to the fullest with those dual CPU.And it was great. Beos remains my N°1 OS. Not saying it's better than modern OS. Just that at that time, it was so great, that it made an impression on me, that last till this day.
There were definitely plenty of multi-CPU machines back in the 90's. The Pentium Pro could be used in 2- and 4-processor configurations, and even the original Pentium supported dual-processor configurations. The Pentium was also superscalar, meaning it had twin data pipelines, meaning it could execute two instructions at the same time. But I think you're also misunderstanding that a multi-threaded OS and a multi-threaded processor are two different things. A multi-threaded OS running programs will coordinate many, many threads regardless of how many cores or threads that the CPU itself can process.
I totally forgot about haiku because the last good news was getting wifi drivers from freebsd but still pretty nearly non-existent laptop support so I can't daily drive it.
I went back to look at the forum post in question, and I think you've strongly overstated their rejection of your involvement. They totally crossed a line, yes, by suggesting that they could control who developers speak to, but I see nothing about preventing you from contributing in any way. What did I miss?
A year later, I guess they didn't listen to what you said, not even a newer beta release, when you mention issues with the current beta you get told the beta is years out of date and use the nightly's, that's not the way to get people interested in your os or willing to contribute........ I'd be happy with a 6-12 monthly update to the "stable" beta release rather than being expected to use a potentially very unstable night;y build (how does someone work out which night;y build is a stable one?)
Honestly, Haiku is nothing more than a novelty. I try it once or twice a year, just to see if it has gotten better. It hasnt. For 99.999999% of the people out there, a lightweight Linux distro is infinitely better.
I think it has gotten closer? It is still something to run in a VM in most cases. Yeah it is not prod ready, I think we all agree on that. The driver set is limited. No usable modern browser. But I still appreciate the work going into it trying to get it to Be better and different (pun intended).
I do see the point you are making about the political discrimination. But my counterargument is that what may be "political" views to you or some other people, may not be political to someone else. Like if they see something as a (human) right for example. I very much try to seperate the art from the artist. That's why I am still here watching your content. Even though I am aware of at least a portion of your political views. Disliking someone because of their political views is not really that common here in Germany. Except for literally na*i people. Everyone hates those. Not everyone is able to distinguish art from the artist though, i would guess the majority cant. So while I mostly agree politics and tech/work in general should be seperate, I can also see why they would not want you to reprensent this project.That's just an outcome of there being too many idiots in the world that just see a person and get pissed off. Rather than listening first, thinking, and then judging and taking action if needed.
Politics have never been about rights. A bunch of rich, powerful people get together and make decisions for you, and they tell you it's about your rights or prosperity, but it isn't. To me, activists are inherently dangerous because they basically exist to take politics at face.
Yeah, "politics" vs philosophic views. Again I really don't think I would probably agree with Bryan on politics but again I have no idea what his ideas are. Church and state separation should always be managed. Like any job, all projects should leave politics, religion and such at the door to entry. Maybe there are some exceptions, but I don't think like what God you do or do not pray to should have an impact on the memory management of an application.
Some of the behaviors are "tone policing", some are that they are completely unaware that they are fundamentally leftist, so any view point that is not aligned with that, is categorized as "incorrect think". I doubt this is unique to haiku, Linux has a similar issue with radical idealogically barricaded people, pretending to be apolitical, when they clearly aren't. There was a influx of younger developers that came in around 2010, who now heavily run the project, who are very much, political and hide behind "specious" arguments. I've been a supporter and user since 2006, this new group of developers has destroyed the community.
Calling your politics 'human rights' is a formula for totalitarianism, a means of making your belief system unquestionable and demonizing disagreement.
I wonder. Threads might be okay, but afaik there is no multi-core-support? At least it didnt follow optimizations of hardware, otherwise it would be still competititve 🤔
not sure how it can ever be classed a success if it is not commercial.. where is the money to pay for leadrship/marketing etc going to come from ?.. big business isnt going to use it to run on their servers. so it will always be a cool but very hobbyest OS
If they discriminate based on politics then they are limiting not only it's progress but also it's usage. The Founder needs to get the project org structure in order.
Oh boy. OK, first .. this reads like a sermon, or a motivational seminar. Lots of words, not a whole lot _said._ I'm not the kind of person that wants everything condensed to a Tweet, but really, unless you just love the sound of the host's voice, this really should've been a 5 min video. There isn't anything in this that couldn't have been stated thoroughly by the end of the intro, where our host is still impressing upon us his bona fides. You don't have to fill for time here. Moving on... You're missing the entire point of Haiku. It isn't _supposed_ to be the next dominant OS. That makes most of this whole topic kind of moot. It doesn't need to be run like a business. It's isn't a business. It's a passion project. I do believe that it's ultimately a _doomed_ project, but it's not because they aren't marketing enough. It's because their MO is based upon the love of something that existed for a short time, 25 years ago. I witnessed a spirited debate a while back on whether to accept that software has moved on, and include a more modern build chain and runtime, or hold fast on maintaining binary compatibility with legacy applications. That rather neatly sums up the whole concept of Haiku. What is it? Is it an open-source recreation of BeOS? Or is the spiritual successor to BeOS? The problem with the former is that its time has come and gone. The problem with the latter is that it has no identity -- if it's not "THE BeOS" then what is it? What's the point? Why not just use Linux, or Windows, or MacOS? And look, it can be whatever it wants to be. If you want an OS stuck in time because you love BeOS that much, great.. be that. You don't need anyone's permission or approval. If you want to take a shot at being a great OS in its own right, fine -- godspeed. But it can't really be both, and the window where those overlap existed for about 6 months after we all stopped using the term "Internet Appliance." As far as "political discrimination"... I don't know your politics, I don't know theirs. I don't care, it's completely irrelevant. But I can _totally_ understand if, as you say, you have made your politics public, and they want nothing to do with that. It's not discrimination on "your" politics necessarily as much as not wanting to be associated with a name that is prominently involved _in_ political debate. We all have freedom to say what we want, but that has never meant there aren't consequences. Just the inferred association of "this person is a spokesman for this product, and is known for holding these beliefs" would make them guilty by association, and that's not something they need. They're not losing "free publicity" -- they're avoiding a stigma. That's just good sense. Look at how Tesla has been politicized, or Bud Light. You can't win. It doesn't matter _what_ your politics are, you're going to offend _someone_ unless you steer clear of it entirely, and let people assume what they want -- which can, and hopefully is, nothing at all. And remember, they don't _need_ publicity. Everyone who knows what BeOS is, is familiar with their project. They have nearly 100% mindshare of the demographic that matters. And to the normies, what does this offer them anyway? Why would they use this instead of something with a far more vibrant ecosystem? So they can run Gobe Productive? C'mon. So, if you're honest with yourself, what do they need you for? I don't mean that to be rude, just straight to the point. You obviously aren't aligned with their vision of the product anyway, so it doesn't strike me as a good fit regardless of politics.
Brian runs Conservative Nerds, a whole right wing activist platform about politics and tech. He’s a vocal political activist, not just posted his opinion somewhere once. Otherwise, I fully agree with your post.
This 'guilt by association' idea has to be dropped. It ought to be possible to accept people so long as they leave their politics at the door, as one would leave shoes.
@@Ubu987 Yeah, well, it ought to be possible to accept people regardless of their politics -- not just if you're blissfully unaware of them. But, for one, that isn't the current reality. We've gotten too tribal for that. ... Well, I mean, we've always _been_ tribal, but now one's politics is one's identity, so that informs one's tribe. Second, politics have gotten hopelessly intertwined with morality. This is where the real problem with association comes in. Because so many really awful people have claimed the flag of one political party or another, being a member of that party suggests that you also subscribe to those notions -- whether that means racism, fascism, nationalism, sexism, whatever... No company wants to get mixed up in that. It would be one thing if your party just meant you had opinions on fiscal policy. It's a whole other if it conceivably means you endorse white supremacy. Even if you personally agree with the undercurrent, that means, off the bat, you're alienating 1/2 of your potential customer base. Whereas, if you kept your distance and let people assume whatever they prefer, then you're viable to 100% of the population. At least, the portion who is interested in whatever you peddle. So yes -- we need to kick the otherism of politics. But first, we probably need to evict the extremists and move the discussion back to the center. If you have any ideas, I welcome them wholeheartedly.
I don't understand one thing. Who started the project? Who's the person with the original vision? Are they still around? Why don't they drive the project? Haiku needs a Linus type of figure.
I try not to bring up politics when discussing linux, but since it seems to be part of the topic; why would you be disappointed he's conservative? Conservative normally means smaller government, less intrusion, more personal responsibility, while liberal means socialism, more government, offices of D.E.I. and E.S.G. scores.
That's as very naive way of looking at things. Conservatives a generally pro huge government when it comes to implementing conservative policies. Look at the U.S. and how so many conservatives want to make freedoms for people who are not Christian illegal, how they want to marry government with religion. Also, in the context of the U.S., liberalism is capitalism with social inclusion, keep the status quo as long as minorities are included. They are not pro socialism. If you go proper left wing, then you start seeing more socialism and if you go further left you get to communism and so on. What I don't understand is conservatives/right-wingers being in favor of open source when it's a philosophy that aligns much more with left wing ideals. The right is generally in favor of ownership, capitalism, profit and individualism. Open-source is the opposite of that, it's free software, with no real ownership, not for profit with multiple people contributing their labor and free time for the greater good. If anything it's the software version of communism, where people who contribute put their labor in so everyone, even people who never contributed in any way can use that software for free. That Marx quote applies perfectly to Open Source: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" From the software engineers who have the ability to the people who need the software to do their tasks even if they haven't been able to contribute in any way. Btw, I'm not saying this as a criticism, the "communism" approach of open source is great!
@@ericmackrodt9441Free software aligns well with Christian values according to Richard Stallman at least. Don't confuse political conservatism with Christianity, they are two different concepts with wildly different scopes. You can find many Christian values on the left too.
@@retronoby Maybe if you look at the words of Jesus alone, in fact Jesus said a lot of things that would align more with socialism/comunism if they were said today. But we can't ignore the politics of most people who call themselves Christian, which does not align with Jesus' words a lot of the time. It's true they are separate things, but I'm practice Most Christians are politically conservative.
Why! If a group of people have a hobby, and are willing to share their baby, there is no need. There is no hurry. You just have to love Haiku, or not love Haiku.
As a mostly left-wing person, I do think that politics should stay away from software projects, especially considering that open-source is the only thing that makes everyone regardless of political inclination to agree to act in a communistic way. It's one of the few things that makes us all work together and have the same goals, and it's an incredible thing because it's the people who have the ability contributing their time and labor for the benefit of everyone else, even the people who can't or don't want to contribute. Politics only hurt these projects. When it comes to my projects (which are nothing compared the vast majority of open source projects), I'm not interested in your politics, the only thing I care about is if you are interested in the project and if you can and how you can help. So don't even mention it. ALSO, if you like a project but you stop helping or using it because you disagree with their politics, you are a wimp. Because it's still an open source project and those people that you disagree with are making no money out of it. That goes for both left-wingers and right-wingers who stop using projects because the developers are from the other team. NOW, having said that, we need to be helpful and respectful of everyone, especially the people who contribute their labor and time to your favorite projects. If you are going to be disrespectful towards the people in a project that you use because of your politics, like if a contributor is transgender and you use the product of their labor while misgendering them and stuff like that, or you attack them for being christian or something, then you suck.
C'mon, we're only pretending if we say Haiku is anything more than a toy by today's standards. It would need major investments to make it progress beyond that status. Advanced graphics (Vulkan,OpenGL,VAAPI), audio drivers and frameworks, UEFI, ACPI, security systems, containers, virtulisation, file systems and advanced networking stacks don't just write themselves. NetBSD which is tiny is already more sophisticated in most of these regards, and like the other BSDs they've had to port the whole gnarly mess that is DRM/KMS with MESA etc from Linux to even keep up with what anyone would regard "modern". It will remain stuck, since OSes in the 90s were at least a factor of 100 simpler than today. Can it rival Windows NT 4.0? Yes. That's about it.
Would it be something worth forking in the hopes to maintain a version without the growing issues? Edit: read through the comments, realized others have asked this. I can't say I'd be great for this, but it would be interesting to be part of and learn.
Insanity. If it was actually that good, they should implement it as a Linux window manager, and port the apps to X11, then it could coexist with an actual viable environment.
First I have to say, I disagree with your analysis of Haiku’s development strategy. These ports fill gaps in Haiku’s software ecosystem and make using it as a daily OS actually possible in the first place. The allegations of bloat and slowdowns is completely unfounded. GTK and Qt applications aren’t running in a default install. The user can choose if they want to use them. Every beta release of Haiku has increased performance as I remember it. If you could provide examples, that would help. Haiku is doing really well at the moment, the next beta release is close. It has never been more stable or had more applications than ever. They must be doing something ring. Your doomerism caused by rejection is childish and detached from reality. The whole political stuff are whiny emotional based arguments with a persecution complex. You’re not someone, who is a political activist with a platform on Conservative Nerds. That explicitly links tech and politics. So your argument about tech and politics should be separate is hypocritical. You then go on to suggest how Haiku should be lead. That’s a discussion of power, which is pure politics. A PR person is important for the public image of an organization. Hiring a political activist is contrary to political neutrality. If you decide to become politically vocal, not everyone will want to associate with you. Simply wanting to avoid drama and controversy is a valid enough reason to reject you. It just comes with the territory. Haiku was very accommodating to you. They answered in private at length and even went on a call with you. What do you give back? A whiny rant on TH-cam. They were wise to reject the drama you like to bring everywhere you go. Controversy creates clicks, but it ruins communities. Haiku will do just fine by not following any of your advice.
The “it’s all easy fixes” is hilarious and shows you have not worked in volunteer projects like that. Developers will work on things they find interesting or useful in their free time. A community that has existed for 20 years and can even pay some developers sometimes is a far above average healthy open source project. Brian would love to become Haiku’s dictator apparently, but that would be an instant disaster.
@@knorze1777 overall i think the only good idea is to talk more publicly about the added features/bug fixes. I'm thinking about serenity OS monthly updates
If you won't bother with a project just because of their political views when they are literally making no money out of it and they are giving it away for free, then the problem is you. That's the same as a left-winger saying "I'm not gonna support that open source project because the developers are right-wing", which you'd probably is a silly thing to do.
Damn! I was a Beos Fan but Haiku never get somewhere to prefer it over linux. Since I am even annoyd by childish parols atthe ANTIX page I don´t need a nother Witchhunter community on my pc. Maybe its a good time to go offline, internet´s getting lame.
What politics in specific? That kinda matters. Disagreements about policy are one thing, but when you repeatedly deadname someone and misgender them, that's just plain bigotry, not politics.
So, your entire argument for censorship is actually political progressivism, and compelled speech. You're so far into your beliefs that you can't see that others disagree, only that they are incorrect. .smmfh
I think the user interface is ugly af and dated. I also like symmetry which it lacks. sure maybe you don't like windows but it has the best user interface.
@@uweburger beauty is not in the eye of the beholder, beauty is standard and scientifically defined as symmetrical which humans enjoy. you can gaslight your modern art as "beauty" and "art" but its not.
I think the problem is that nobody is going to make Haiku-native software if there is no userbase... but users aren't going to flock to the OS if they can't do the things they need/want to do.
so after 10+ years there are still no App Developer Docs, or App Porting Docs?
Ouroboros
@@twocatsyelling723 Linux has been ready for the desktop for over a decade
I've been daily driving Linux for much longer than that, but in the 90s it used to be a lot of work and now it's all just plug and play
I don't know what the % is, but it's clearly enough because it's been a long time I have any real problems that I wouldn't have with Windows or Mac in one way or the other - perhaps less, generally speaking
I definitely agree. What started out as "we need to have a modern web browser" turned into "we need to port over, basically, everything that Linux/BSD has." The 1.0 release was simply supposed to be a drop in replacement for BeOS, and after that was supposed to be a focus on becoming more general purpose. At some point those goals got flipped and now they are adding features that they don't have the manpower for.
The idea of an OS being a killer desktop os and nothing else is a great idea, too bad all this is happening to the BeOS successor.
was an old time BeOS user since 3.0 .. in the later years i remember the only safe/updated browsers were either firefox compiled from source or Opera binaries.. unless there are people commited to writing core applications for Haiku a safer option for users will ultimately be third party software
I have always been very attracted to the BEOS design.
I have not tried Haiku, mostly because I don't have time to load up an OS that I won't be able to get work done on.
So it's one of those "I don't see the point of trying this" sort of thing.
So what you're saying is that Haiku needs a multi-talented, diverse and experienced professional shaman at its helm? 😁
Another thing it needs is a Web browser that can play videos (and in sync)…non streamed media has gotten better recently, but Web positive still won’t play videos on TH-cam or Rumble (or any other site)…didn’t it used to called the Media OS?
great video dude. could you make a "ReactOS - what's going wrong and how to fix it" video? it feels like another project in a similar situation
Haiku has active devs wheras ReactOS is moribund. Very few people still working on it and poor morale
Haiku/BeOS is my favorite OS by far. I hope the stable release arrives soon. I hope also they finnish the ARM port and also make a RISC V port.
@@buttcube6085 apparently there is both a ARM and RISC-V port, but they are not finnished. I think the RISC-V port is more important because RISC-V is still slower than ARM so a lightweight OS like Haiku would be perfect for it, also less competition on RISC-V.
@@SkepticalCavemanin terms of commercially available CPUs RISC-V is slower but last I checked the fastest CPU on earth by a huge margin was a RISC-V one.
The politics issue is really disappointing. As far as the software goes, I actually think it's the right move to offer ports of LibreOffice etc. on day one, otherwise you end up with a version 1.0 that cannot be used for daily tasks, so nobody except developers would be able to make good use of it. Familiar software makes the transition easier, special optimized software can always come later. Then again, I see you point that Haiku loses its specialness, its reason for being if it's just another platform for all the things we already use elsewhere, except with a different UI and worse hardware support. What I personally would like to see from Haiku is a single killer app, something that showcases why such a massively multithreaded system is needed/better than what we currently have. If Haiku can't make that case for itself, then it will be hard to convince anyone to switch permanently.
Surely some kind of video editing/multimedia software would be the best fit for this
@@helios8459 Live audio production with super low latency is easier and makes a bigger impact. Video editing is a huge can of worms and needs good GPU support and licensed codecs.
Just dont do politics at work if you dont want that this shitty nonsense cannibalizes your efforts.
All the issues you note come down to one thing: Haiku doesn’t have a parent corporation behind it with deep pockets like main Linux distros do. Developers don’t want to spend time working for a niche os on which they will never see a real return. Haiku has come a long way in twenty years bud don’t expect it to become a premium os like Ubuntu, Fedora or openSUSE. The money and the resources aren’t there to make it happen.
I remember the university surplus had beos running from the live cd to show that the computers worked
Were they not capable of running anything else? Lol.
Upvoting for passionate speech, but judging from watching Haiku history for last 15 years, I think they won't change anything and will slowly ship 1.0 somewhere in 2030
While I agree with a lot of what you say, I was unable to find any relevant content regarding HaikuOS on your media platforms; at least the ones that were not behind a pay/account wall which I have no intention of joining. It may be true that you have created the most journalistic Haiku content in the history of the world, but I can't find it. Would you mind offering a link to that content?
I find content in free forums and on sites (including "paywalls" dismissed simply by hitting "Continue") going back 10 years by simply Googling for "Bryan Lunduke Haiku".
There's a reply here but I can't see it. I assume the reply would be to the other interviews.
Have you forwarded this to anyone that's actually got a say in whre Haiku goes?
fork Haiku OS?
😂
The points 5, 6, 7 in your list are key for succeed or fail, if they dont start talking with mayor applications developers, like 3D, Architecture, Video editing, Photography and promote in social media, youtube, its going to fail, this OS is the "Crown Jewel" of the OS, its light, efficient, impressive performance, but no applications, I used it as BeOS ina my first MAC a lot of years ago and at that time was a lot better than original Mac OS as is today, its a lot better than any other OS, commercial OS of course, they must hir someone to take care of those points on your list to succeed, in my opinion. Excellent video!!!
On the issue of politics: "We are in this together." The project at the workplace might be seen as a metaphor: We have common problems, and in order to succeed we need to work out solutions together to which most of us can mostly agree - most often without regard in which place of the political spectrum we might be. Of course there are always differences in all places - but one cannot afford to alienate half of the department in the process. Some candidate in some current election actually said that in his or her closing address 😃.
True words!
The tech world is in increasing need of a new secularization. A separation of politics and tech!
I personally experienced this in the Rust language. This has to stop! Or potentially amazing tech will rot itself from the inside.
for better or worse, open source has largely become synonymous with expanded ecosystem, make everything work with everything else, implement all possible features. If someone takes this, makes it into a commercial product offering support, then it can be streamlined and can get focus, otherwise it is another attempt at ecosystem building, and for opensource that is linux today
I agree on your points, although I have not interacted with the Haiku community so I cannot attest for how they stand.
I have listen to your podcasts for years (The Linux Action Show days) and I have no idea of your politics. I assume by the titles of the group mentioned you are considering yourself conservative. I would not of known that until you mentioning it.
I still have no ideas on your political positions, because I haven't looked. I would bet we wouldn't see eye to eye. But the fact that I don't know and only have listened to your Linux and open source content, I appreciate. I agree that politics and jobs never work well. Perhaps philosophies can be argued regarding the goals of a project. But as long as everyone is open minded, that's fine.
I don't know the details of the Haiku OS situation. I will certainly agree that I loved BeOS and wish the best for Haiku OS. BeOS was a beautiful thing and I want it to grow. IIRC it was famous for extremely efficient MP3 playback. I think I ran it on a Pentium MMX.
Being a laymen I think if GTK and QT can function on Haiku, even with reduced performance, I think that is a good thing. Programming is always iterative. I mean remember how bad GTK app ports to Windows use to be? Function comes first.
Feature creep is always an issue and does need leadership to keep down. It is usually more fun to make new things than fix the old problems.
I wish some of this was in article format. My views of interactions with the community have been positive. But both accounts of mine and Bryan are anecdotal.
Citations needed man.
I mean you have been around open source enough to know the way to fix things is to say something sucks. Please document what you think is feature creep and other issues.
I use haiku os everyday and i love it! And yeah i can confirm that everything that is made from linux architecture,
Take away the light out of haiku.
Tried Haiku on the relatively old bear metal computer that runs Linux on dual boot without a single problem. Haiku froze on me a couple of times, so if I were doing some serious stuff, I would lose all my data. It's nice, and the core OS with the utilities it is shipped with is snappy and well-designed. But basic functionality is missing, such as proper control of sound and display. With the multitude of complex hardware, it is tough to see how Haiku will keep up with the basic expectations of the modern OS. Even much more popular, FreeBSD is struggling to provide a consistent desktop experience, with a very limited hardware base that it can utilize as a full desktop OS.
I was so excited when React OS, Haiku OS, and AROS all came out. I followed, tested, and donated to all the projects. I shared them with my friends as well. I was so happy that competitors appeared to challenge the norm.
They all eventually fizzled out.
On a side note, I wonder if one of the reasons why you receive so much hate, aside from exposing bad actors moving in bad faith, is because you refuse to engage in political debates.
There is a very strange phenomenon where some people will actively target you if you _don't_ cover/talk about the things they are passionate about. They tend to view silence as either compliance or support.
Great message! Many industries could learn from your last point. All of tech, table top games, and comics... they all have become obsessed with polotics and the "correct" side lol.
All the problems of Haiku OS boil down to the fact it is a REAL open source operating system, made by TRUE grass roots hackers...and not a government and international corporation front company masquerading as a non-profit organization such is the case of the linux foundation..
I may be confused. I don't really recall any multi-threaded, multi-CPU, desktop systems back in the late 90s? By the late 90s, my home computer was rocking an AMD K6-II overclocked to just over 425 MHz and it was a beast compared to most other systems. I even had 512 MB of RAM (assuming I remember the system properly).
I don't recall any multi-threaded/multi-CPU machines as desktops then. So, I'm not sure how you'd know the speed of such.
It's safe to assume that I'm missing something. That happens often.
HI,
in 99, the compagny ABit sold a motherboard called Abit BP6. it was a dual cpu motherboard.
I had one with 2 celerons CPU. In fact, Beos is the reason I bought this motherboard.
I wanred to experience Beos to the fullest with those dual CPU.And it was great.
Beos remains my N°1 OS.
Not saying it's better than modern OS. Just that at that time, it was so great, that it made an impression on me, that last till this day.
@@Hinibiare Thanks! I figured I was missing something. Somehow that escaped my notice - or is something I'd completely forgotten about.
HP also had a dual p60 desktop in the late 90s. We ran WinNT and Linux on them, but of course BeOS blew them away with responsiveness and speed.
There were definitely plenty of multi-CPU machines back in the 90's. The Pentium Pro could be used in 2- and 4-processor configurations, and even the original Pentium supported dual-processor configurations. The Pentium was also superscalar, meaning it had twin data pipelines, meaning it could execute two instructions at the same time.
But I think you're also misunderstanding that a multi-threaded OS and a multi-threaded processor are two different things. A multi-threaded OS running programs will coordinate many, many threads regardless of how many cores or threads that the CPU itself can process.
I had a dual processor SuperMac that I ran BeOS many years back. In fact I still own it.
I don't wanna hear it about Gentoo when you are selling us this BeOS throw back stuff, Bryan. 😏
would love Haiku OS on Apple Silicon, it would be SO fast. Asahi Linux is already amazing with almost no HW accelerating to speak of....
Whenever I think of Haiku, I think they're trying to make a Museum OS.
As much as I love BeOS/Haiku, without a modern browser running smoothly, haiku isn’t going to be widely adopted.
I totally forgot about haiku because the last good news was getting wifi drivers from freebsd but still pretty nearly non-existent laptop support so I can't daily drive it.
Exactly the same case with me.
Sounds like the Haiku people need to consume more raw meat, blood, and wild caught fish to gain more productivity and matureness, and delete politics.
I went back to look at the forum post in question, and I think you've strongly overstated their rejection of your involvement. They totally crossed a line, yes, by suggesting that they could control who developers speak to, but I see nothing about preventing you from contributing in any way. What did I miss?
That forum post represents roughly 1% of the discussion.
@@BryanLunduke Thanks, I suspected as much, that's awful.
A year later, I guess they didn't listen to what you said, not even a newer beta release, when you mention issues with the current beta you get told the beta is years out of date and use the nightly's, that's not the way to get people interested in your os or willing to contribute........ I'd be happy with a 6-12 monthly update to the "stable" beta release rather than being expected to use a potentially very unstable night;y build (how does someone work out which night;y build is a stable one?)
thanks for mirroring on rumble too dude :)
ps - if Google with its infinite resources can't make Fuschia a thing, nobody else even stands a chance.
Honestly, Haiku is nothing more than a novelty. I try it once or twice a year, just to see if it has gotten better. It hasnt. For 99.999999% of the people out there, a lightweight Linux distro is infinitely better.
I think it has gotten closer? It is still something to run in a VM in most cases.
Yeah it is not prod ready, I think we all agree on that. The driver set is limited. No usable modern browser. But I still appreciate the work going into it trying to get it to Be better and different (pun intended).
Without facts to back this up, the politics is directly related to ESG and DEI, guaranteed. You cannot fix that Bryan.
:(
Hit the nail on the head! That’s the crux of the story.
Haiku needs a proper web browser, to begin with.
I do see the point you are making about the political discrimination. But my counterargument is that what may be "political" views to you or some other people, may not be political to someone else. Like if they see something as a (human) right for example.
I very much try to seperate the art from the artist. That's why I am still here watching your content. Even though I am aware of at least a portion of your political views. Disliking someone because of their political views is not really that common here in Germany. Except for literally na*i people. Everyone hates those.
Not everyone is able to distinguish art from the artist though, i would guess the majority cant. So while I mostly agree politics and tech/work in general should be seperate, I can also see why they would not want you to reprensent this project.That's just an outcome of there being too many idiots in the world that just see a person and get pissed off. Rather than listening first, thinking, and then judging and taking action if needed.
Politics have never been about rights. A bunch of rich, powerful people get together and make decisions for you, and they tell you it's about your rights or prosperity, but it isn't. To me, activists are inherently dangerous because they basically exist to take politics at face.
Yeah, "politics" vs philosophic views.
Again I really don't think I would probably agree with Bryan on politics but again I have no idea what his ideas are. Church and state separation should always be managed. Like any job, all projects should leave politics, religion and such at the door to entry. Maybe there are some exceptions, but I don't think like what God you do or do not pray to should have an impact on the memory management of an application.
Some of the behaviors are "tone policing", some are that they are completely unaware that they are fundamentally leftist, so any view point that is not aligned with that, is categorized as "incorrect think". I doubt this is unique to haiku, Linux has a similar issue with radical idealogically barricaded people, pretending to be apolitical, when they clearly aren't. There was a influx of younger developers that came in around 2010, who now heavily run the project, who are very much, political and hide behind "specious" arguments. I've been a supporter and user since 2006, this new group of developers has destroyed the community.
Calling your politics 'human rights' is a formula for totalitarianism, a means of making your belief system unquestionable and demonizing disagreement.
Do you know if anyone is working on HDMI audio from nVidia for The Haiku OS?
I wonder. Threads might be okay, but afaik there is no multi-core-support? At least it didnt follow optimizations of hardware, otherwise it would be still competititve 🤔
not sure how it can ever be classed a success if it is not commercial.. where is the money to pay for leadrship/marketing etc going to come from ?.. big business isnt going to use it to run on their servers. so it will always be a cool but very hobbyest OS
If they discriminate based on politics then they are limiting not only it's progress but also it's usage. The Founder needs to get the project org structure in order.
The founder left the project around 2008 or so if memory serves me
They avoid unnecessary drama and stigma.
You forgot the Nerds and Nerdettes!! hahaha
Oh boy.
OK, first .. this reads like a sermon, or a motivational seminar. Lots of words, not a whole lot _said._ I'm not the kind of person that wants everything condensed to a Tweet, but really, unless you just love the sound of the host's voice, this really should've been a 5 min video. There isn't anything in this that couldn't have been stated thoroughly by the end of the intro, where our host is still impressing upon us his bona fides. You don't have to fill for time here. Moving on...
You're missing the entire point of Haiku. It isn't _supposed_ to be the next dominant OS. That makes most of this whole topic kind of moot. It doesn't need to be run like a business. It's isn't a business. It's a passion project.
I do believe that it's ultimately a _doomed_ project, but it's not because they aren't marketing enough. It's because their MO is based upon the love of something that existed for a short time, 25 years ago. I witnessed a spirited debate a while back on whether to accept that software has moved on, and include a more modern build chain and runtime, or hold fast on maintaining binary compatibility with legacy applications. That rather neatly sums up the whole concept of Haiku. What is it? Is it an open-source recreation of BeOS? Or is the spiritual successor to BeOS? The problem with the former is that its time has come and gone. The problem with the latter is that it has no identity -- if it's not "THE BeOS" then what is it? What's the point? Why not just use Linux, or Windows, or MacOS?
And look, it can be whatever it wants to be. If you want an OS stuck in time because you love BeOS that much, great.. be that. You don't need anyone's permission or approval. If you want to take a shot at being a great OS in its own right, fine -- godspeed. But it can't really be both, and the window where those overlap existed for about 6 months after we all stopped using the term "Internet Appliance."
As far as "political discrimination"... I don't know your politics, I don't know theirs. I don't care, it's completely irrelevant. But I can _totally_ understand if, as you say, you have made your politics public, and they want nothing to do with that. It's not discrimination on "your" politics necessarily as much as not wanting to be associated with a name that is prominently involved _in_ political debate. We all have freedom to say what we want, but that has never meant there aren't consequences. Just the inferred association of "this person is a spokesman for this product, and is known for holding these beliefs" would make them guilty by association, and that's not something they need. They're not losing "free publicity" -- they're avoiding a stigma. That's just good sense. Look at how Tesla has been politicized, or Bud Light. You can't win. It doesn't matter _what_ your politics are, you're going to offend _someone_ unless you steer clear of it entirely, and let people assume what they want -- which can, and hopefully is, nothing at all.
And remember, they don't _need_ publicity. Everyone who knows what BeOS is, is familiar with their project. They have nearly 100% mindshare of the demographic that matters. And to the normies, what does this offer them anyway? Why would they use this instead of something with a far more vibrant ecosystem? So they can run Gobe Productive? C'mon. So, if you're honest with yourself, what do they need you for? I don't mean that to be rude, just straight to the point. You obviously aren't aligned with their vision of the product anyway, so it doesn't strike me as a good fit regardless of politics.
Brian runs Conservative Nerds, a whole right wing activist platform about politics and tech. He’s a vocal political activist, not just posted his opinion somewhere once.
Otherwise, I fully agree with your post.
Lol what a moron
This 'guilt by association' idea has to be dropped. It ought to be possible to accept people so long as they leave their politics at the door, as one would leave shoes.
@@Ubu987 Yeah, well, it ought to be possible to accept people regardless of their politics -- not just if you're blissfully unaware of them.
But, for one, that isn't the current reality. We've gotten too tribal for that. ... Well, I mean, we've always _been_ tribal, but now one's politics is one's identity, so that informs one's tribe.
Second, politics have gotten hopelessly intertwined with morality. This is where the real problem with association comes in. Because so many really awful people have claimed the flag of one political party or another, being a member of that party suggests that you also subscribe to those notions -- whether that means racism, fascism, nationalism, sexism, whatever...
No company wants to get mixed up in that. It would be one thing if your party just meant you had opinions on fiscal policy. It's a whole other if it conceivably means you endorse white supremacy. Even if you personally agree with the undercurrent, that means, off the bat, you're alienating 1/2 of your potential customer base. Whereas, if you kept your distance and let people assume whatever they prefer, then you're viable to 100% of the population. At least, the portion who is interested in whatever you peddle.
So yes -- we need to kick the otherism of politics. But first, we probably need to evict the extremists and move the discussion back to the center. If you have any ideas, I welcome them wholeheartedly.
I don't understand one thing. Who started the project? Who's the person with the original vision? Are they still around? Why don't they drive the project?
Haiku needs a Linus type of figure.
I try not to bring up politics when discussing linux, but since it seems to be part of the topic; why would you be disappointed he's conservative? Conservative normally means smaller government, less intrusion, more personal responsibility, while liberal means socialism, more government, offices of D.E.I. and E.S.G. scores.
That's as very naive way of looking at things.
Conservatives a generally pro huge government when it comes to implementing conservative policies. Look at the U.S. and how so many conservatives want to make freedoms for people who are not Christian illegal, how they want to marry government with religion.
Also, in the context of the U.S., liberalism is capitalism with social inclusion, keep the status quo as long as minorities are included. They are not pro socialism.
If you go proper left wing, then you start seeing more socialism and if you go further left you get to communism and so on.
What I don't understand is conservatives/right-wingers being in favor of open source when it's a philosophy that aligns much more with left wing ideals.
The right is generally in favor of ownership, capitalism, profit and individualism. Open-source is the opposite of that, it's free software, with no real ownership, not for profit with multiple people contributing their labor and free time for the greater good. If anything it's the software version of communism, where people who contribute put their labor in so everyone, even people who never contributed in any way can use that software for free.
That Marx quote applies perfectly to Open Source: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
From the software engineers who have the ability to the people who need the software to do their tasks even if they haven't been able to contribute in any way.
Btw, I'm not saying this as a criticism, the "communism" approach of open source is great!
@@ericmackrodt9441yes but then how do we tax open source?
Where do anarchists fit in with open source?
@@ericmackrodt9441Free software aligns well with Christian values according to Richard Stallman at least.
Don't confuse political conservatism with Christianity, they are two different concepts with wildly different scopes. You can find many Christian values on the left too.
@@retronoby Maybe if you look at the words of Jesus alone, in fact Jesus said a lot of things that would align more with socialism/comunism if they were said today.
But we can't ignore the politics of most people who call themselves Christian, which does not align with Jesus' words a lot of the time. It's true they are separate things, but I'm practice Most Christians are politically conservative.
@@DUDEBroHey The whole idea of communal ownership and sharing of Free Software is very much aligned with anarchist ideas.
Why! If a group of people have a hobby, and are willing to share their baby, there is no need. There is no hurry. You just have to love Haiku, or not love Haiku.
As a mostly left-wing person, I do think that politics should stay away from software projects, especially considering that open-source is the only thing that makes everyone regardless of political inclination to agree to act in a communistic way.
It's one of the few things that makes us all work together and have the same goals, and it's an incredible thing because it's the people who have the ability contributing their time and labor for the benefit of everyone else, even the people who can't or don't want to contribute.
Politics only hurt these projects.
When it comes to my projects (which are nothing compared the vast majority of open source projects), I'm not interested in your politics, the only thing I care about is if you are interested in the project and if you can and how you can help. So don't even mention it.
ALSO, if you like a project but you stop helping or using it because you disagree with their politics, you are a wimp. Because it's still an open source project and those people that you disagree with are making no money out of it.
That goes for both left-wingers and right-wingers who stop using projects because the developers are from the other team.
NOW, having said that, we need to be helpful and respectful of everyone, especially the people who contribute their labor and time to your favorite projects. If you are going to be disrespectful towards the people in a project that you use because of your politics, like if a contributor is transgender and you use the product of their labor while misgendering them and stuff like that, or you attack them for being christian or something, then you suck.
Sit , how to know the algorithms used in this OS for example in time management?
C'mon, we're only pretending if we say Haiku is anything more than a toy by today's standards. It would need major investments to make it progress beyond that status. Advanced graphics (Vulkan,OpenGL,VAAPI), audio drivers and frameworks, UEFI, ACPI, security systems, containers, virtulisation, file systems and advanced networking stacks don't just write themselves.
NetBSD which is tiny is already more sophisticated in most of these regards, and like the other BSDs they've had to port the whole gnarly mess that is DRM/KMS with MESA etc from Linux to even keep up with what anyone would regard "modern".
It will remain stuck, since OSes in the 90s were at least a factor of 100 simpler than today. Can it rival Windows NT 4.0? Yes. That's about it.
Genuinely, why would someone want to use or contribute to this instead of Linux?
Would it be something worth forking in the hopes to maintain a version without the growing issues?
Edit: read through the comments, realized others have asked this.
I can't say I'd be great for this, but it would be interesting to be part of and learn.
I fully agree with you, Bryan!
Insanity. If it was actually that good, they should implement it as a Linux window manager, and port the apps to X11, then it could coexist with an actual viable environment.
First I have to say, I disagree with your analysis of Haiku’s development strategy. These ports fill gaps in Haiku’s software ecosystem and make using it as a daily OS actually possible in the first place. The allegations of bloat and slowdowns is completely unfounded. GTK and Qt applications aren’t running in a default install. The user can choose if they want to use them. Every beta release of Haiku has increased performance as I remember it. If you could provide examples, that would help.
Haiku is doing really well at the moment, the next beta release is close. It has never been more stable or had more applications than ever. They must be doing something ring. Your doomerism caused by rejection is childish and detached from reality.
The whole political stuff are whiny emotional based arguments with a persecution complex. You’re not someone, who is a political activist with a platform on Conservative Nerds. That explicitly links tech and politics. So your argument about tech and politics should be separate is hypocritical.
You then go on to suggest how Haiku should be lead. That’s a discussion of power, which is pure politics.
A PR person is important for the public image of an organization. Hiring a political activist is contrary to political neutrality. If you decide to become politically vocal, not everyone will want to associate with you. Simply wanting to avoid drama and controversy is a valid enough reason to reject you. It just comes with the territory.
Haiku was very accommodating to you. They answered in private at length and even went on a call with you. What do you give back? A whiny rant on TH-cam. They were wise to reject the drama you like to bring everywhere you go. Controversy creates clicks, but it ruins communities.
Haiku will do just fine by not following any of your advice.
The “it’s all easy fixes” is hilarious and shows you have not worked in volunteer projects like that. Developers will work on things they find interesting or useful in their free time. A community that has existed for 20 years and can even pay some developers sometimes is a far above average healthy open source project.
Brian would love to become Haiku’s dictator apparently, but that would be an instant disaster.
@@knorze1777 overall i think the only good idea is to talk more publicly about the added features/bug fixes. I'm thinking about serenity OS monthly updates
Haiku kept on getting bloated by bureaucracy and never really went anywhere, just like the political systems they believe in
I was going to install Haiku but will wait for this org pulls their heads out of their collective a** and start acting like adults.
Don’t let silly spats like this dissuade you from trying it.
Fork it
nice burn
IF THEY GO WOKE THEY GO BROKE
It's not about wokeness.
Silly comment, there's a lot more nuance to it.
Most of these idiots don’t have a clue what woke even means.
haiku os is very good, but their political views are enough not to even bother with.
I've been around Haiku since before they had a name. Never knew the community had a political view. 🤷
If you won't bother with a project just because of their political views when they are literally making no money out of it and they are giving it away for free, then the problem is you.
That's the same as a left-winger saying "I'm not gonna support that open source project because the developers are right-wing", which you'd probably is a silly thing to do.
What political views do you mean?
Damn! I was a Beos Fan but Haiku never get somewhere to prefer it over linux. Since I am even annoyd by childish parols atthe ANTIX page I don´t need a nother Witchhunter community on my pc. Maybe its a good time to go offline, internet´s getting lame.
Let this thing die already.
I'd rather have a conservative then crazy socialist liberal anyday of the week.
I'd rather have a liberal then a crazy fascist conservative anyday of the week.
The qualifications are a bit crazy here.
What politics in specific? That kinda matters.
Disagreements about policy are one thing, but when you repeatedly deadname someone and misgender them, that's just plain bigotry, not politics.
Good one 🤣Could you rephrase that in the form of a haiku?
So, your entire argument for censorship is actually political progressivism, and compelled speech.
You're so far into your beliefs that you can't see that others disagree, only that they are incorrect.
.smmfh
Lol. "Bigotry" is when you don't want to play pretend with them?
Brian runs a conservative activist site called Conservative Nerds about politics in tech.
I think the user interface is ugly af and dated.
I also like symmetry which it lacks.
sure maybe you don't like windows but it has the best user interface.
@@uweburger beauty is not in the eye of the beholder, beauty is standard and scientifically defined as symmetrical which humans enjoy.
you can gaslight your modern art as "beauty" and "art" but its not.
Extremely subjective
I didn't know you were conservative. I am dissapointed.
Go cry if you want
Orange man bad
What's the point of haiku? There's no reason for it. There's project hoarding in open source.