DraculaCronqvist And then she wants to destroy the Force so she can break herself free (and possibly everyone) from being bound to its omnipotent ability to decide fate for everything. She's such a great and in depth character.
Exactly, but it seems not enough people appreciated her. But I think that's more telling of the intellect of the average gamer, rather than the writers.
best star wars storyline ever, out of all the universes. and possibly my favorite storyline ever. pisses me off real bad that it never got a necessary third sequel...i'm not going to count that MMO...
yea man, we true kotor 2 players are out there and when swtor comes out as the kotor 1.2.3.4.5 onward apparently it does just piss me off. i think we could push for obsidian to work on a third. man i love this story and all the characters, kreia teachings are awesome
silentsmokeNIN If you like the writing you might want to see Chris Avellons latest works, like pillars of eternity, or the upcoming Torment:tides of numera, if you can play games that complex. Pillars had some faaaaantastic characters.
Kreia is the single best and most deep character I've seen in games, and hell, most movies too. It's a damn pity she's more or less non-canon, I mean she's said to have existed and played a role in the Exile's life, but all of her philosophy and unique perspective was thrown out completely when the Revan book and TOR came about, making the exile little more than a Revan fangirl with little of what made her unique in the game evident in the sequels. Ah well, crumbling cookies and all that stuff.
+dreadrath KOTOR 1 and TOR are also non-canon now. Right now, the only canon stories are the movies, the CGI cartoons, and a few comics and novels that have come out since April of last year.
"I? Do you think I seek the death of all living things? There is no victory in such things, I do not want to win our war like this, little jedi..." Always loved that line...
From what it seems, Kreia talks about Kae the same way Obi-Wan (i.e. Old Ben) talks about who Vader and Luke's father are. While what they say is true, it's just a perspective of what things are... And to understand it fully, you need contrast..
I always thought Arren Kae was the lie made by the Council to lie to themselves. The Council actually regarded Revan a figure of bravery, kinda like Atris loves the Exile. So they couldn't accept that he was taught by a Sith, therefore claiming that another unexistent master that just "was exiled".
***** An interesting way of looking at it. And it certainly has merit. However I do remember one of the masters in the council recording saying that the Jedi must accept responsibility for what happened with Revan. Atris was the only one who objected and tried to shift blame. I was surprised that Vrook didn't support her, though. Although a closer look at Vrook would say that he is man enough to accept his own wrongings, but is harsh about the actions of others he disagrees with. Jedi are confusing. :P
I sincerely hope that Kreia's voice-actress is proud. :D She had the privilege of voicing one of the best-written Star Wars characters _of all time_, if not *_THE_* best-written character. *(Edit):* She honestly deserved to be paid more money than she probably earned for the role. I can say that for sure.
Ask Mical about Revan's last Jedi Master while Kreia is in the party, Kreia will mess with his head and make him forget. I really should have put that scene in this video, now that you mention it.
Chris Avellone was asked if this was true, he said "Can't comment, but good catch. Sorry." In other resources like the Fallout bible he uses "good catch" as a way to say he likes the idea, but it wasn't what he had intended. It wasn't what he wrote, but still, it's a really cool theory.
Both games were a weird perfect storm. KOTOR was the best-written game ever, and then they gave it to Obsidian for KOTOR 2 and they were like "we liked the first one but we're gonna write it categorically better." "Mass Effect" is good but they're still probably both the two best-written, voice-acted games ever.
gibberconfirm Actually, KOTOR was a typical "hero wins the day" story surrounded by one-dimensional characters and a most shallow "either-black-or-white" approach. Only you people couldn't notice it because of the famous plot-twist the whole game was entirely built around.
Kenneth Donnelly Agreed. But then again, the whole universe of Star Wars is pretty one-dimensional and kind of childish. Obsidian tried to give it some more depth in Kotor 2, but let's face it - they mostly failed. The game has been released unfinished, and it wasn't good enough overall. It's basically looks like some rushed low-budget indi project, which could be considered an oversized Kotor 1 DLC. Furthermore, both Kotor 1 and 2 are full of severe bugs. And worst of all, both games have "T" certification, which pretty much means the content is adjusted for children. Damn, they couldn't even show a simple kiss! No doubt, ME series (and DE for that matter) are way more developed and mature. The only major problem I have with ME is that it's hardly an RPG.
Once again, I agree. The conception was good indeed, but overall quality of the resulting product was limited. Apart from the "shades of gray" and some elaborate dialogues, it has too many weaknesses to be considered a great game. Not to mention the gameplay, which is virtually identical to Kotor 1. Both games also use the same massively outdated engine (even by the standards of the time). Don't forget that Kotor 2 was released in 2004, the same year as Half Life 2 and Far Cry 1 - the games that look decent even by today's standards. Those aren't RPGs, but when some supposedly A-class game looks like it was released in 2000, it couldn't be justified.
OH SHIT I just want EA to change their minds and include Obsidian in their line of Star Wars games. It is just necessary for this to happen We want Kotor 3 done by Obsidian. Even though BioWare is excellent, I want to see Kotor 2's mysteries resolved
This is how you hide as a Sith Lord infront of everybody *khm Palpatine khm*. Lucas should have taken notes and wait with making the prequels. Kreia is one of my favorites.
It's amazing, how much more fascinating and thought-provoking Kotor and it's sequel are, compared to the movies. I enjoy the movies, but Darth Vader's rise and fall seem so insignificant, compared to Darth Revan's story. Darth Traya is fascinating to me because her goals and her ways of achieving them are so unique, and she's definetly a sympathetic villain, who you feel sorry for rather than hating.
The conversations with Kreia are my favs in this game...seriously, is an remarkable display of wisdom that you can apply on every single field in live. This game should be a trilogy
Here is my analysis of the Kreia=Kae subject - *BEWARE: WALL OF TEXT BELOW* I think she was, and there are many points in favour of this. It is highly likely it was at some point intended for them to be the same, but time constraints forced Obsidian to cut things and change the plot somewhat. Most points lend credence to them being the same, but some also go against this. *In favour of them being the same person:* • Both Kreia and Arren Kae are mentioned as being the first and last master to Revan (main evidence) - Revan was the Padawan to both of them: Mical: *As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae* before she was exiled. Kreia: At one time, *Revan was my Padawan*, in times past, long ago. • To further add on this, the Jedi Council during the Exile’s trial all mention Revan’s master as ‘she’. If he had two female masters, it wouldn’t make sense to refer to his master as ‘she’…unless they were the same - maybe? (this is a weak point, I know) • When Kreia speaks of Kae, she says “And she was… *said to be* …a skilled warrior. Beautiful. And strong in the Force.” The way she says the bolded line…like, why would she hesitate? She used to know her! Surely, she would know what her skills were and what she looked like? Also, Jedi can usually feel the strength of the Force in other Force sensitives. In the light of this, it makes sense if she was actually talking about herself. Additionally, Atton mentions that Kreia at some point must’ve been quite good-looking. • Kreia and Arren Kae were both exiled, but apparently for different reasons: Kreia for training Revan, and Kae for having a child. But lines in-game from Kreia and Mical implies that the former was exiled not for Revan’s fall, but something else: -Kreia: But in the end, he (Revan) turned back to me. When he realized there was nothing more to be *learned* from the Jedi - *except how one could leave them forever.* -Mical: And it is said that he went to his first and final master to *learn how to leave the order entirely, like she had.* These lines imply that Revan came to Kreia shortly before he joined the Mandalorian Wars - thus Kreia could not have been exiled because of her role in training Revan, as it implies that she had already left the order (although having left the Order doesn’t have to mean she had been exiled - not sure about this one: Can they really exile Jedi that have left the Order?). They do use the words ‘forever’ and ‘entirely’, which implies something permanent. Also, Mical also says that Kae ‘left’ the Order, but he also says she was exiled - so are the two words being used interchangeably here (i.e. leave=exiled)? Highly likely if you ask me. So yes, the Council blamed Kreia for Revan’s fall, but she was most likely already exiled. • Both Kreia and Kae were less committed to the Jedi Code compared to many other Masters. We don’t really know much about Kreia’s teachings before she left the Order, but she most likely adhered to some of the teachings that she did when the Exile travelled with her (minus very dark side ideals). I would also guess that she was quite pragmatic, just as she was post-fall and post-Sith exile. She most likely taught her pupils to face the darkness within themselves, rather than flee from it. Thus, her pupils became more susceptible to the Dark Side, but those who didn’t fall, became much stronger for it (like Revan, but also the ‘True Jedi’ - the ones who followed the light, waged war to save others, and whom Mical says died on Malachor V, having been intentionally placed there by Revan). Kreia’s unorthodox views of the Force most likely also gave her a curious resistance to the dark side still (most likely one of the reasons Revan placed her in low-orbit or on the ground of Malachor 5 when MSG was activated - also, Revan had Kae’s husband killed later, so he would definitely fear her, thus he tried to have her killed) - she was corrupted by a combination of the trauma caused by the MSG and the Trayus Academy (mostly the last though). • A line also somewhat implies that Kae joined the Wars at an earlier point (maybe even before the Revanchists joined). Mical says this: “Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, *Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars."* Thus, it is possible that she was with Yusanis earlier in the Wars, and when the Revanchists joined the Wars, Revan welcomed her to them. This can also explain why the Exile (eventually a high-ranking General near the end of the Wars) didn’t recognize Kreia from earlier; she fought more independently of the other Jedi and wasn’t specifically assigned to them. Also, since she had been exiled earlier, she wasn’t ‘officially’ a Jedi anymore - so she likely wasn’t tied to the other Jedi as much. • Jedi are forbidden to have children, and Kae birthed a child (Brianna) some 25 years before KOTOR 2. Her birth was revealed almost a decade later, and Kae was exiled. Kreia’s age is probably around 55 by KOTOR 2 (use of the Dark Side makes her look older); she would be in her early thirties when she birthed Brianna, and in her early forties when she was exiled. Consequently, she joined the Mandalorian Wars, where Revan welcomed her. She was presumed killed when the MSG was activated at Malachor 5 - but the body was never found (the mention of this specifically is very much intentional). Kreia had also apparently joined the war and was presumed dead by the Jedi Order (Kavar stated this specifically in the Enclave Scene). She doesn’t deny her involvement in the War to Kavar; in fact, she says it made her stronger. • Also, it seems that not every Jedi on the Council blamed Revan’s master, so they were split on this subject: Atris: We are not the ones who taught him! Vash: *We take responsibility, Atris, not cast blame!* Kavar: *The choice of one was the choice of us all. Revan’s teacher intended no harm.* And Revan had many teachers since. Atris: Yet they all stem from the same source. Her teachings violated the Jedi Code and all who listen to the dark side, as they did the exile.
I think one additional (weaker point), is that When Mical lists Revan's masters, he lastly lists Master Kae, saying "Master Kae, before Kae left for the wars". Then It's stated Revan returned to the first master (now last) to learn how to leave them forever. I guess I don't know if when Revan sought her ought to leave the order, if this was after he was redeemed and defeated Malak. If so, it would be the end of his "2nd" training, in a sense. It wouldn't make much sense as he had just been redeemed/aligned back with them, and left because he recalled the Sith Empire threat, though I guess it's possible. Perhaps then also, Disciple didn't know for certain who was his first master, only the rumor and the fact that he had many masters. However, if it is not the 2nd training under Jedi on Dantooine, Bastilla/masters etc., and it's the end of his "1st training" referred to there, then he would have done this just before leaving for the wars. I don't think the timeline allows for Kae to have left before Revan. In which case Kae would have to have been the last person who trained him. I'm pretty curious now.
Also forgot to mention this conversation on Nar Shaddaa: "There have been so many failures, by teachers who believed in the Code with all their being - Master Arca failed Ulic, as Master Baas failed Exar Kun, as Kae and Zhar and the others of the Council failed Revan... and Malak." -Zez-Kai Ell. This could be perceived 2 ways. If Zez-Kai Ell believes that despite (Kreia's?-campaign guide) Conundrums, she was still dedicated to the code/jedi, then he is citing her as having failed Revan. He mention Zhar as well, though Kreia and or Kae get a lot of the blame. If not, then this might point to another inconsistency they didn't remove, if they wanted them the same character, as it would seem to exclude Kreia's unique lack of commitment to the code as not matching the issue that Kae's commitment to it may have brought.
Yeah, it's pretty much confirmed that Kreia is Arren Kae. You're pretty much right, a good clue is when the crew escape from Peragus II, in the way Atton describes Kreia yet the Exile does not notice because the Exile is sensing Kreia's true age (it happens again when the Exile is tasked in looking for a dancer for Boga the Hutt and the Exile suggests Kreia).
Arren Kae and Kriea are the same person. There are too many clues that give it away just look at the contrast. An Enchani Sith Lady who made all us Star Wars fans look at good and evil for what it truly was.
There is also third option for me at least, that kreia is arren kae's older sister. Because mical and zez-kai ell were saying master Kae, so that doesn't mean that it was arren kae.
My best kortor playthrough was a kreia and drone run where i seriously listened to her as her student and learned all i could. Realoding when ever she disliked my choices. The ending i got was stellar
This game is somewhere between masterpiece and clusterfuck with all its intricacies. You really can't get the full scope of everything without replaying the game several times and paying attention to every little detail.
He doesn't need to remember :) it's all in the vid. Brianna says her mother's body was never recovered, which is not that strange since we're talking about Malachor V, there was no need to mention it. It's one of those things that writers add to make sure you get what they're getting at, and there are many such hints throughout the game. I'm sure when people played the first game, most didn't notice that conversations were filled with clues of the player's big secret.
Kreia was most likely Arren Kae. The name Kreia is just Kae and Traya combined. Atris said that Kreia wasn't her real name, she was presumed dead in the Mandalorian wars just like Kae was, Kae was Revan's first and last master of which Kreia also said she was, Sion said she wants to train one as great as her first referring to Revan, Kae was said to be beautiful and Atton said Kreia must've been beautiful once, and they both even look alike. Who else could it be?
What I know of her: Kreia trained Revan, and was exiled from the Order because her studends went to war against the Council's command (even though she didn't). So she turned to the Dark Side, taking the name of Darth Traya, and formed the Sith Triumvirate, alongside with Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus, her new aprentices. Her goal was, of course, to destroy the Jedi for what they did to her. As always happens in the dark side, the apprentices surpassed their Master, and both the Darths "ceased Kreia's connection with the Force", banishing her from the Triumvirate and from the Force. I don't know how they did this to her... But we have to admit, it was a classy way to destroy your Master. Anyway, when she was no longer a Jedi or a Sith, she decided to strip the world from the Force itself, because she believed it was the reason of all the wars, plots, deaths and suffering (can't say I blame her). She was not good or evil. She just had her reasons to do what she wanted to, and even though she wasn't connected to the Force anymore, she was still a woman trained in the light and in the dark ways of the Force. She knew how to manipulate and get what she wanted. She was smart and cunning, cold and wise. And, if her connection were to be restablished somehow, she would have the light and dark side knowledge at her side. That is when she met the Exile from KOTOR-II (canonically Meetra Surik, a female Jedi), and the fact that she had her own goals apart from the always present Jedi-Sith dichotomy is the reason she is always neutral in her position towards the light and dark during the game. I don't remember why Kreia had that Force connection with Meetra (if one were to die, so would the other). But she manipulates Meetra all over the game just to get her ties to the Force back, and in the end, when she is at Malacor-V, ready to fulfill her plan, Meetra defeats her. Basically, Kreia is a very, very interesting character in the series, and her story is tangled, directly or indirectly, to most of the main characters of this Era. I just love her.
Hmm... too bad we (i think) never get full conclusion of the KOTOR story in form of KOTOR 3 because of EA's idiotic decision to turn the franchise in to MMO (and NO WAY i will consider Revan's arc in ToR as anything even CLOSE to canon)... unless someone (yeah i known... faster Romulus will become member of the United Nations >:) ) will took away KOTOR IP from EA's claws and create final part of the trilogy.
I know this is late, but I find it interesting that Disciple and Kreia pronounce Kae differently. Disciple pronounces it "Kay", which fits into the whole "Kay-Treya = Kreia" theme, whereas Kreia pronounces it "Kai", which doesn't.
Every story needs a villain. Kreia is one of the few villains in fiction to ever truly understand and lament over her destiny though. To be the villain means she and everything she believes is wrong. She is destined to fail and die accomplishing nothing. She is not the bad guy by choice, but because fate has made her so. The Force is cruel like that and she resents it. All that she can do is begrudgingly accept her role and do what she can to break the cycle for the limited time that she has on the stage.
She started to follow Revan's footsteps right after he was redeemed to the Light Side. When Revan departed into the Unknown Regions in search for the Sith Emperor, Kreia arrived at the ravaged planet of Malachor V. The moment she set foot on the ground, she was corrupted by its dark essence. The Trayus Academy was built by the Sith who survived the Great Hyperspace War. It is, though, unknown whether it was founded by the Sith who followed Vitiate or by the Sith who did not follow him.
Although I think that part of what made KOTOR so amazing is the fact that the story WAS a bit rushed, all of the characters were well fleshed out but also shrouded in mystery especially Kreia who is one of the most developed characters that we still have such little definfate knowledge about. I think thats partly what makes her such a good character.
Shes my favourite :), nihilus had power over force,sion had power over might, and they both were probably directly stronger than her. But her power was none of those sorts. She could set things into motion, too large on scale for normal person to understand, and in the end, everything would fill into its place, just as she has always planned.A true mastermind. I think if she actually decided to travel with revan at the end, true sith would get generally screwed :) "Mind over matter".
I love these games so much. KOTOR 1 &2 are the best and most philosophical games. Games where characters that are not real actually affect your emotions with what they say.
I think we need someone like Kreia on our world. People are to blinded by beliefs, doctrines and politics. Pre-established and old-fashioned orders have done nothing but damage to society, and it's long past the time they were abandoned entirely.
"Do you wish to feel the teachings of the Mandalorian wars, of all wars, of all trageties that scream across the galaxy? Let me show you, you who have forever seen the galaxy through the force. Seeit through the eyes of the exile..."(Force drain)
You gotta give Obsidian credits for making one of the best and deepest plots in RPG history... if not THE best. I've never played a game which dialogues are so full of questions and wisdom. And characters like Kreia and Nihilus are beyond any cliché of the typical villain. Aww damn i love this game.
This was very cool - I liked the way you pieced all this together. It's such a shame that this game was never completed in its intended form. Kreia kicks ass and I think it would be nice if there were at least a few references of her in the upcoming 'Old Republic' game. Thanks for posting this.
Words can't describe this video... Amazing Story writing is simply the obvious. It is a pity KOTOR 2 did not earn the respect it deserves. The Character Kreia is one of the most amazing characters I have ever seen.
Love it. Also, Atton makes a comment early in the game like "She (Kreia) might have been beautiful once...." I always thought this was a reference to this, since you wouldn't be able to tell how Kreia and Brianna look alike.
@AzurePrower time by her own two Sith apprentices, Sion and Nihilus. I think you know the reasons why they did this (their ambition, their impatience to slaughter the remaining Jedi etc etc). Then, stripped by her power and cast out again, the former Jedi Master Arren Kae, who became a Sith called Darth Traya, chose to definetly hide her persona and changed her name to Kreia, realizing that the art of betraying both the Sith and Jedi could bring the end of the Force, what she
@Kahiara Yes, the game hints several times at Kreia and Jedi Master Arren Kae being one and the same, but unfortunately no canon source as of yet outright states that it is true.
MIND = BLOWN. KotOR 2 has always been one of my favorite games, and this just now dawned upon me. Especially considering how much I enjoy Brianna (the handmaiden). Its pretty weird to think that that woman in KotOR 2 I found the most appealing for a romance option is the daughter of the witch!
over three hundred comments all really fucking surprised. Great catch, I loved Kreia as a character she is my all time favourite in star wars lore and you have made her ever deeper I my eyes.
Come to think of it, training your companions in the force is the worst thing you can do. You make them reliant on something that has, time and time again, proven to kill more than it saves.
Thank you for this excellent summary video. It's amazing to realize, if you look around the net or at the discussions on Wookieepedia, that there are so many people who claim there is not sufficient evidence for this. It makes one wonder if they'd understand that Kreia was Darth Traya if she hadn't had the name floating over her head at the end.
@AzurePrower but she began training Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus during the Jedi Civil War and after, you know... Revan was redempted two or three years after the beginning of the Jedi Civil War, killed Malak, married Bastilla in secret, spent a year or two more in the Republic , then left into the Unknown Regions, leaving all those he cared about and loved behind to face the evil Sith Empire. Then... a year or two before the events from KotOR 2, Darth Traya was AGAIN exiled, this
The only things I tampered with are the braids of the Handmaiden, which aren't normally visible in that model, and the Disciple's lines, that just needed bug-fixing. The rest can be accessed in-game without any mods.
@ninjawest12 Yes, Atris took over her role as Jedi Historian and Keeper of the Archives, and later she is meant to take over her role as Darth Traya as well (in the cut content)
Didnt realize this even i have played it several times. (maybe i am stupid :) ) But there are hints. Hints that Kreila is Arren Kae. Hints that you didnt show but its there if i think of it. Lots of time passed and i still cant forget this game.
Holy %$#@ Even after all these years I NEVER put two and two together until this video! I never played as a Female so I never got the Disciple stuff, but still!! That was mindblowing and put a lot of stuff into context and made certain things make a lot more sense!! Thanks for for sharing!! (For those who missed it: The Handmaiden is Krea's Daughter)
Kreia followed Revan's footsteps, but did not follow him into war. She followed him to Malachor V eventually, where she discovered the Trayus Academy. There she became corrupted by its dark alignment. In lack of any direct proof, I consulted Wookieepedia, the best source there is when you don't have any books/comics/games/etc to consult.
Indeed, the way Vader's story has been written and told doesn't do justice to a character that has fascinated millions of fans spanning multiple generations.
That would be awesome :) As for the Knights of the Old Republic comic book, it ended at #50 in 2010. I loved it, it was really good, you should totally take a look at it.
Wow... and to think that when we first saw her she was just an old, dead-looking woman, which we didn't know nothing about. And at the end she turned out to be one the most interesting characters in the whole Star Wars Universe
@inneedofakiss It would be interesting if they were to elaborate more on Kreia's role and history. In both games, Revan has such an impact on the Republic's and Jedi's history. Kreia's role in the creation of Revan and her interpretation of the Jedi code would make a great comic or novel even!
@Silkoo10 Have you seen Chris Avellone's blog about character backstory? Kreia appears between 40-80 years old, but the truth is that her wrinkles are a result of her days as a Sith. She merely passes it off as simply being old. Granted not all of the material listed there made it into the game, and some things were changed. But Mical says it himself: he recognized Kreia and not even "the markings of the dark side" could hide her identity
It was said that Revan went to find out how to best save the jedi. I think he did indeed go to Kreia about this. But i'll bet he went to Kae as well and asked of she how to best leave the Jedi order.
If you are to truly understand then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single idea. It is to surrender yourself, to make yourself a slave to a teaching or belief, that makes it so belief will always rule you.----Kreia
@darthmaultest I really cannot agree with that. Kreia is so unique as a character, teacher, and villain. But the way how the plot reveals Kae's past and the way how Kreia speaks of her as a third person, leads me to believe that they are two different people.
@AzurePrower And more... Kreia isn't even her true name. Her real name was in fact Arren Kae, of course. After Arren Kae was exiled from the Jedi Order, she went to war with Revan, ended up on Malachor V and then she turned to the Dark Side after she found the Trayus Academy and studied the ancient Sith teachings that were hidden within it. Kae became a Sith, Darth Traya. After the Battle of Malachor V, all thought Arren Kae died during that final battle of the Mandalorian Wars,
I love these games and wish for a remastered version, basically updated graphics and extended stories with some more missions. Well, for one and two, the both of them can make a comeback, but they are fun to play, and if you have them through Steam, there are mods to help it. Plus, some mods for the 2nd to complete the game in a way.
Arren Kae/ Traya / Kreia - the force certainly had it’s way with her. She became a Jedi, she found love, she became a mother, she became a Sith, she was stripped of her connection to the force and she is still miserable but wise nonetheless.
For all its technical flaws, and there were a lot, KotoR II deserves a special place in the Star Wars universe because it's the only one that I know of that dares to deviate from the movies. Here, the Jedi are not right, the force isn't light and dark or even necessarily good. There is only uncertain growth and consequences.
Another (small) clue to this is that when you ask Kreia for lightsaber combat (TSLRCM i think), Kreia says, (This is not exact, btw), "You have wanted to strike me down since you saw the bond me and the exile posses.", and Visas says, (about her lightsassber), "I shall die before it passes into your hands.". This clearly means they don't like eachother, much like how Brianna and Visas hate each other.
Who is Kreia? The best goddamn character to have ever been in Star Wars, that's who.
She also stands against the entire concept of Light and Dark side, thus perpetually making Lucas butthurt.
Which is an added bonus. Light and Dark side? BS, it's how you use it that makes the difference, there is no inherent good or evil.
DraculaCronqvist And then she wants to destroy the Force so she can break herself free (and possibly everyone) from being bound to its omnipotent ability to decide fate for everything.
She's such a great and in depth character.
Exactly, but it seems not enough people appreciated her. But I think that's more telling of the intellect of the average gamer, rather than the writers.
DraculaCronqvist I've never heard of a guy who played all of KOTOR 2 and disliked Kreia.
A storyline from a more civilised era
Nothing but woke Disney crap now.
best star wars storyline ever, out of all the universes. and possibly my favorite storyline ever. pisses me off real bad that it never got a necessary third sequel...i'm not going to count that MMO...
yea man, we true kotor 2 players are out there and when swtor comes out as the kotor 1.2.3.4.5 onward apparently it does just piss me off. i think we could push for obsidian to work on a third. man i love this story and all the characters, kreia teachings are awesome
silentsmokeNIN
If you like the writing you might want to see Chris Avellons latest works, like pillars of eternity, or the upcoming Torment:tides of numera, if you can play games that complex.
Pillars had some faaaaantastic characters.
haha, so lets see what ea can do....
silentsmokeNIN swtor is pretty good
I enjoy the MMO
I've played this game like 10 times and it can still be complex af lol
From a time when games weren't crap.
Mike D so glad I'm not the only one who sees that games have gone from excellent plot to no plot masked by better graphics
Back when a game wasn't just a game, but an "experience" too.
I am from the future. It is so much worse than you could believe.
@@daviddavidson9923from a further future I concur
Kreia is the single best and most deep character I've seen in games, and hell, most movies too. It's a damn pity she's more or less non-canon, I mean she's said to have existed and played a role in the Exile's life, but all of her philosophy and unique perspective was thrown out completely when the Revan book and TOR came about, making the exile little more than a Revan fangirl with little of what made her unique in the game evident in the sequels. Ah well, crumbling cookies and all that stuff.
+dreadrath KOTOR 1 and TOR are also non-canon now. Right now, the only canon stories are the movies, the CGI cartoons, and a few comics and novels that have come out since April of last year.
***** The characters themselves are, but the books about them are not
@@BroadwayRonMexico Disney can kiss my ass this is Cannon I can feel it in the force
"I? Do you think I seek the death of all living things? There is no victory in such things, I do not want to win our war like this, little jedi..."
Always loved that line...
From what it seems, Kreia talks about Kae the same way Obi-Wan (i.e. Old Ben) talks about who Vader and Luke's father are. While what they say is true, it's just a perspective of what things are... And to understand it fully, you need contrast..
Nice one, never thought of that :)
I always thought Arren Kae was the lie made by the Council to lie to themselves. The Council actually regarded Revan a figure of bravery, kinda like Atris loves the Exile. So they couldn't accept that he was taught by a Sith, therefore claiming that another unexistent master that just "was exiled".
***** An interesting way of looking at it. And it certainly has merit. However I do remember one of the masters in the council recording saying that the Jedi must accept responsibility for what happened with Revan. Atris was the only one who objected and tried to shift blame. I was surprised that Vrook didn't support her, though. Although a closer look at Vrook would say that he is man enough to accept his own wrongings, but is harsh about the actions of others he disagrees with.
Jedi are confusing. :P
Could it be so?
"From a, certain point of view"
I sincerely hope that Kreia's voice-actress is proud. :D
She had the privilege of voicing one of the best-written Star Wars characters _of all time_, if not *_THE_* best-written character.
*(Edit):* She honestly deserved to be paid more money than she probably earned for the role. I can say that for sure.
Hippolyte Barraud Dammit.
Now I believe she deserved to be paid _triple_ her promised amount. :D
HOLY SITH!
KotOR II just received an official update! :D
***** The Steam download is so far the only one I know of. :P
***** Indeed, my friend. *Indeed*.
*_Most indubitably_*, to put more emphasis to it. KotOR III might be a thing yet.
Better this than fucking Zardoz.
Ask Mical about Revan's last Jedi Master while Kreia is in the party, Kreia will mess with his head and make him forget. I really should have put that scene in this video, now that you mention it.
"Die? No. Became stronger? Yes." I love that line
The way she says "stronger" almost sounds like the way Sidious says it in the line "It gives you focus, makes you stronger".
HANDMAIDEN IS KREIA'S DAUGHTER!?! OH MY GOD!!! :O
***** Because it is a taboo subject of Jedi giving birth, why would they talk about it? Right?
Darth Traya but you are Darth Traya not Kreia or Kae.
Darth Traya ah so you admit you’re Arren Kae
Kae + Traya = Kreia
Chris Avellone was asked if this was true, he said "Can't comment, but good catch. Sorry." In other resources like the Fallout bible he uses "good catch" as a way to say he likes the idea, but it wasn't what he had intended. It wasn't what he wrote, but still, it's a really cool theory.
And they ALL tie back to the Mandalorian Wars and Revan. DAMN!!
Because Revan is THAT amazing, he isn't the heart of the force for nothing
JJ Abrams should learn something from the kotor.
Both games were a weird perfect storm. KOTOR was the best-written game ever, and then they gave it to Obsidian for KOTOR 2 and they were like "we liked the first one but we're gonna write it categorically better." "Mass Effect" is good but they're still probably both the two best-written, voice-acted games ever.
gibberconfirm Actually, KOTOR was a typical "hero wins the day" story surrounded by one-dimensional characters and a most shallow "either-black-or-white" approach. Only you people couldn't notice it because of the famous plot-twist the whole game was entirely built around.
Kenneth Donnelly Agreed. But then again, the whole universe of Star Wars is pretty one-dimensional and kind of childish. Obsidian tried to give it some more depth in Kotor 2, but let's face it - they mostly failed. The game has been released unfinished, and it wasn't good enough overall. It's basically looks like some rushed low-budget indi project, which could be considered an oversized Kotor 1 DLC. Furthermore, both Kotor 1 and 2 are full of severe bugs. And worst of all, both games have "T" certification, which pretty much means the content is adjusted for children. Damn, they couldn't even show a simple kiss!
No doubt, ME series (and DE for that matter) are way more developed and mature. The only major problem I have with ME is that it's hardly an RPG.
Pasheg No, KOTOR2 was a succes in adding depth or "gray" to SW universe, the game's failures are not in it's vision, but in it's completion.
Once again, I agree. The conception was good indeed, but overall quality of the resulting product was limited. Apart from the "shades of gray" and some elaborate dialogues, it has too many weaknesses to be considered a great game. Not to mention the gameplay, which is virtually identical to Kotor 1. Both games also use the same massively outdated engine (even by the standards of the time). Don't forget that Kotor 2 was released in 2004, the same year as Half Life 2 and Far Cry 1 - the games that look decent even by today's standards. Those aren't RPGs, but when some supposedly A-class game looks like it was released in 2000, it couldn't be justified.
OH SHIT I just want EA to change their minds and include Obsidian in their line of Star Wars games. It is just necessary for this to happen We want Kotor 3 done by Obsidian. Even though BioWare is excellent, I want to see Kotor 2's mysteries resolved
This is how you hide as a Sith Lord infront of everybody *khm Palpatine khm*. Lucas should have taken notes and wait with making the prequels. Kreia is one of my favorites.
RBATOR1986 This came out during the prequels...
Nah Lucas did a good job with the prequels, it’s not his fault that hollywood avoided him like the plague and he was stuck with only yes-men
I like Kreia; she is the single most interesting character in Kotor. Kind of like the emperor, but Palpatine is just "evil" in a shallow way.
Bryson Gobel Read about EU Palpatine.
Sassy Quokka in philosophy?
It's amazing, how much more fascinating and thought-provoking Kotor and it's sequel are, compared to the movies. I enjoy the movies, but Darth Vader's rise and fall seem so insignificant, compared to Darth Revan's story. Darth Traya is fascinating to me because her goals and her ways of achieving them are so unique, and she's definetly a sympathetic villain, who you feel sorry for rather than hating.
kreia should have a movie with revan.
The conversations with Kreia are my favs in this game...seriously, is an remarkable display of wisdom that you can apply on every single field in live.
This game should be a trilogy
Here is my analysis of the Kreia=Kae subject - *BEWARE: WALL OF TEXT BELOW*
I think she was, and there are many points in favour of this. It is highly likely it was at some point intended for them to be the same, but time constraints forced Obsidian to cut things and change the plot somewhat. Most points lend credence to them being the same, but some also go against this.
*In favour of them being the same person:*
• Both Kreia and Arren Kae are mentioned as being the first and last master to Revan (main evidence) - Revan was the Padawan to both of them:
Mical: *As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae* before she was exiled.
Kreia: At one time, *Revan was my Padawan*, in times past, long ago.
• To further add on this, the Jedi Council during the Exile’s trial all mention Revan’s master as ‘she’. If he had two female masters, it wouldn’t make sense to refer to his master as ‘she’…unless they were the same - maybe? (this is a weak point, I know)
• When Kreia speaks of Kae, she says “And she was… *said to be* …a skilled warrior. Beautiful. And strong in the Force.” The way she says the bolded line…like, why would she hesitate? She used to know her! Surely, she would know what her skills were and what she looked like? Also, Jedi can usually feel the strength of the Force in other Force sensitives. In the light of this, it makes sense if she was actually talking about herself. Additionally, Atton mentions that Kreia at some point must’ve been quite good-looking.
• Kreia and Arren Kae were both exiled, but apparently for different reasons: Kreia for training Revan, and Kae for having a child. But lines in-game from Kreia and Mical implies that the former was exiled not for Revan’s fall, but something else:
-Kreia: But in the end, he (Revan) turned back to me. When he realized there was nothing more to be *learned* from the Jedi - *except how one could leave them forever.*
-Mical: And it is said that he went to his first and final master to *learn how to leave the order entirely, like she had.*
These lines imply that Revan came to Kreia shortly before he joined the Mandalorian Wars - thus Kreia could not have been exiled because of her role in training Revan, as it implies that she had already left the order (although having left the Order doesn’t have to mean she had been exiled - not sure about this one: Can they really exile Jedi that have left the Order?). They do use the words ‘forever’ and ‘entirely’, which implies something permanent.
Also, Mical also says that Kae ‘left’ the Order, but he also says she was exiled - so are the two words being used interchangeably here (i.e. leave=exiled)? Highly likely if you ask me. So yes, the Council blamed Kreia for Revan’s fall, but she was most likely already exiled.
• Both Kreia and Kae were less committed to the Jedi Code compared to many other Masters. We don’t really know much about Kreia’s teachings before she left the Order, but she most likely adhered to some of the teachings that she did when the Exile travelled with her (minus very dark side ideals). I would also guess that she was quite pragmatic, just as she was post-fall and post-Sith exile. She most likely taught her pupils to face the darkness within themselves, rather than flee from it. Thus, her pupils became more susceptible to the Dark Side, but those who didn’t fall, became much stronger for it (like Revan, but also the ‘True Jedi’ - the ones who followed the light, waged war to save others, and whom Mical says died on Malachor V, having been intentionally placed there by Revan).
Kreia’s unorthodox views of the Force most likely also gave her a curious resistance to the dark side still (most likely one of the reasons Revan placed her in low-orbit or on the ground of Malachor 5 when MSG was activated - also, Revan had Kae’s husband killed later, so he would definitely fear her, thus he tried to have her killed) - she was corrupted by a combination of the trauma caused by the MSG and the Trayus Academy (mostly the last though).
• A line also somewhat implies that Kae joined the Wars at an earlier point (maybe even before the Revanchists joined). Mical says this: “Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, *Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars."* Thus, it is possible that she was with Yusanis earlier in the Wars, and when the Revanchists joined the Wars, Revan welcomed her to them. This can also explain why the Exile (eventually a high-ranking General near the end of the Wars) didn’t recognize Kreia from earlier; she fought more independently of the other Jedi and wasn’t specifically assigned to them. Also, since she had been exiled earlier, she wasn’t ‘officially’ a Jedi anymore - so she likely wasn’t tied to the other Jedi as much.
• Jedi are forbidden to have children, and Kae birthed a child (Brianna) some 25 years before KOTOR 2. Her birth was revealed almost a decade later, and Kae was exiled. Kreia’s age is probably around 55 by KOTOR 2 (use of the Dark Side makes her look older); she would be in her early thirties when she birthed Brianna, and in her early forties when she was exiled. Consequently, she joined the Mandalorian Wars, where Revan welcomed her. She was presumed killed when the MSG was activated at Malachor 5 - but the body was never found (the mention of this specifically is very much intentional). Kreia had also apparently joined the war and was presumed dead by the Jedi Order (Kavar stated this specifically in the Enclave Scene). She doesn’t deny her involvement in the War to Kavar; in fact, she says it made her stronger.
• Also, it seems that not every Jedi on the Council blamed Revan’s master, so they were split on this subject:
Atris: We are not the ones who taught him!
Vash: *We take responsibility, Atris, not cast blame!*
Kavar: *The choice of one was the choice of us all. Revan’s teacher intended no harm.* And Revan had many teachers since.
Atris: Yet they all stem from the same source. Her teachings violated the Jedi Code and all who listen to the dark side, as they did the exile.
3 years late, but just wanted to say I loved your breakdown
I think one additional (weaker point), is that When Mical lists Revan's masters, he lastly lists Master Kae, saying "Master Kae, before Kae left for the wars". Then It's stated Revan returned to the first master (now last) to learn how to leave them forever. I guess I don't know if when Revan sought her ought to leave the order, if this was after he was redeemed and defeated Malak. If so, it would be the end of his "2nd" training, in a sense. It wouldn't make much sense as he had just been redeemed/aligned back with them, and left because he recalled the Sith Empire threat, though I guess it's possible. Perhaps then also, Disciple didn't know for certain who was his first master, only the rumor and the fact that he had many masters.
However, if it is not the 2nd training under Jedi on Dantooine, Bastilla/masters etc., and it's the end of his "1st training" referred to there, then he would have done this just before leaving for the wars. I don't think the timeline allows for Kae to have left before Revan. In which case Kae would have to have been the last person who trained him.
I'm pretty curious now.
Also forgot to mention this conversation on Nar Shaddaa: "There have been so many failures, by teachers who believed in the Code with all their being - Master Arca failed Ulic, as Master Baas failed Exar Kun, as Kae and Zhar and the others of the Council failed Revan... and Malak." -Zez-Kai Ell. This could be perceived 2 ways. If Zez-Kai Ell believes that despite (Kreia's?-campaign guide) Conundrums, she was still dedicated to the code/jedi, then he is citing her as having failed Revan. He mention Zhar as well, though Kreia and or Kae get a lot of the blame. If not, then this might point to another inconsistency they didn't remove, if they wanted them the same character, as it would seem to exclude Kreia's unique lack of commitment to the code as not matching the issue that Kae's commitment to it may have brought.
When Chris says "good catch," that's been his way of saying 'Sure, why not?'
So it's (unofficially) canon.
What he meant was that it was an interesting concept, but it wasn't intended, ergo KiNAK.
*Kreia is NOT Arren Kae*
She's such an interesting character. She saw the future but not all out it. (Sequel Trilogy).
Arren Kae and Kreia are one and the same. Kreia is in her 50s and had been aged physically by the Dark Side.
Yeah, it's pretty much confirmed that Kreia is Arren Kae. You're pretty much right, a good clue is when the crew escape from Peragus II, in the way Atton describes Kreia yet the Exile does not notice because the Exile is sensing Kreia's true age (it happens again when the Exile is tasked in looking for a dancer for Boga the Hutt and the Exile suggests Kreia).
The greatest character ever written in Star Wars.
how did they manage to make it so epic ... incredible, I think I will start playing it again :D
Don't forget to install Restoration Project + Droid planet )))
Arren Kae and Kriea are the same person. There are too many clues that give it away just look at the contrast. An Enchani Sith Lady who made all us Star Wars fans look at good and evil for what it truly was.
she was not echani though, Brianna's father was
+Lope So Brianna is half Echani and half human. But the Enchani are near humans anyway.
There is also third option for me at least, that kreia is arren kae's older sister. Because mical and zez-kai ell were saying master Kae, so that doesn't mean that it was arren kae.
@@PhantomWolf7 Z.-K.E. should have said "As Kae, Kenobi, Zhar, Dorak, and the others of the Council…"
My best kortor playthrough was a kreia and drone run where i seriously listened to her as her student and learned all i could. Realoding when ever she disliked my choices. The ending i got was stellar
This game is somewhere between masterpiece and clusterfuck with all its intricacies. You really can't get the full scope of everything without replaying the game several times and paying attention to every little detail.
He doesn't need to remember :) it's all in the vid. Brianna says her mother's body was never recovered, which is not that strange since we're talking about Malachor V, there was no need to mention it. It's one of those things that writers add to make sure you get what they're getting at, and there are many such hints throughout the game. I'm sure when people played the first game, most didn't notice that conversations were filled with clues of the player's big secret.
Are they implying that Kreia is Arren Kae? wouldn't that mean The Handmaiden is Kreia's daughter? woah
my mind was blown at the possibility
Kreia is Arren Kae. I am convinced.
Krljavi Dzo Dude she is unless you're an idiot at connecting things together its VERY obvious lmao
Kreia was most likely Arren Kae. The name Kreia is just Kae and Traya combined. Atris said that Kreia wasn't her real name, she was presumed dead in the Mandalorian wars just like Kae was, Kae was Revan's first and last master of which Kreia also said she was, Sion said she wants to train one as great as her first referring to Revan, Kae was said to be beautiful and Atton said Kreia must've been beautiful once, and they both even look alike. Who else could it be?
im convinced i can't believe ive never even come close to discovering this after all these years
What I know of her:
Kreia trained Revan, and was exiled from the Order because her studends went to war against the Council's command (even though she didn't). So she turned to the Dark Side, taking the name of Darth Traya, and formed the Sith Triumvirate, alongside with Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus, her new aprentices. Her goal was, of course, to destroy the Jedi for what they did to her. As always happens in the dark side, the apprentices surpassed their Master, and both the Darths "ceased Kreia's connection with the Force", banishing her from the Triumvirate and from the Force. I don't know how they did this to her... But we have to admit, it was a classy way to destroy your Master. Anyway, when she was no longer a Jedi or a Sith, she decided to strip the world from the Force itself, because she believed it was the reason of all the wars, plots, deaths and suffering (can't say I blame her). She was not good or evil. She just had her reasons to do what she wanted to, and even though she wasn't connected to the Force anymore, she was still a woman trained in the light and in the dark ways of the Force. She knew how to manipulate and get what she wanted. She was smart and cunning, cold and wise. And, if her connection were to be restablished somehow, she would have the light and dark side knowledge at her side.
That is when she met the Exile from KOTOR-II (canonically Meetra Surik, a female Jedi), and the fact that she had her own goals apart from the always present Jedi-Sith dichotomy is the reason she is always neutral in her position towards the light and dark during the game. I don't remember why Kreia had that Force connection with Meetra (if one were to die, so would the other). But she manipulates Meetra all over the game just to get her ties to the Force back, and in the end, when she is at Malacor-V, ready to fulfill her plan, Meetra defeats her.
Basically, Kreia is a very, very interesting character in the series, and her story is tangled, directly or indirectly, to most of the main characters of this Era. I just love her.
Hmm... too bad we (i think) never get full conclusion of the KOTOR story in form of KOTOR 3 because of EA's idiotic decision to turn the franchise in to MMO (and NO WAY i will consider Revan's arc in ToR as anything even CLOSE to canon)... unless someone (yeah i known... faster Romulus will become member of the United Nations >:) ) will took away KOTOR IP from EA's claws and create final part of the trilogy.
+Asheer ea did not turn this franchise into a mmo it was bioware
I know this is late, but I find it interesting that Disciple and Kreia pronounce Kae differently.
Disciple pronounces it "Kay", which fits into the whole "Kay-Treya = Kreia" theme, whereas Kreia pronounces it "Kai", which doesn't.
well, if kreia is kae, the she is the one pronouncing it correctly
+Runescape12345
"Kai" fits just as well seeing how only the first letter is taken into the "Kreia"
i personally think kreia is just kind of an anagram for kae
the letters k a e are in kriea soooo
And Milo Surik pronounces it "Key", which makes it a more Latinized term.
Kreia's way of teaching the Force would have prevented Anakin's fall to the dark side.
This video still gives me goosebumps
In an alternate universe there was a third Kotor game. Life isn't fair dammit.
i have seen all the videos you have made.. and you make such perfect choices with music! :D
anyways
i love all your videos, thank you so much
Every story needs a villain. Kreia is one of the few villains in fiction to ever truly understand and lament over her destiny though. To be the villain means she and everything she believes is wrong. She is destined to fail and die accomplishing nothing. She is not the bad guy by choice, but because fate has made her so. The Force is cruel like that and she resents it. All that she can do is begrudgingly accept her role and do what she can to break the cycle for the limited time that she has on the stage.
Great character information ive been looking for the origin of Kreia and I found it. thanks. : )
She started to follow Revan's footsteps right after he was redeemed to the Light Side. When Revan departed into the Unknown Regions in search for the Sith Emperor, Kreia arrived at the ravaged planet of Malachor V. The moment she set foot on the ground, she was corrupted by its dark essence.
The Trayus Academy was built by the Sith who survived the Great Hyperspace War. It is, though, unknown whether it was founded by the Sith who followed Vitiate or by the Sith who did not follow him.
Taken separately, if you Google Translate "Arren"; it means "Successfully" and "Kae", means "Change". "Successfully Change"
Although I think that part of what made KOTOR so amazing is the fact that the story WAS a bit rushed, all of the characters were well fleshed out but also shrouded in mystery especially Kreia who is one of the most developed characters that we still have such little definfate knowledge about. I think thats partly what makes her such a good character.
Shes my favourite :), nihilus had power over force,sion had power over might, and they both were probably directly stronger than her. But her power was none of those sorts. She could set things into motion, too large on scale for normal person to understand, and in the end, everything would fill into its place, just as she has always planned.A true mastermind. I think if she actually decided to travel with revan at the end, true sith would get generally screwed :) "Mind over matter".
I love these games so much. KOTOR 1 &2 are the best and most philosophical games. Games where characters that are not real actually affect your emotions with what they say.
im glad i kept the annotations on
I think we need someone like Kreia on our world. People are to blinded by beliefs, doctrines and politics. Pre-established and old-fashioned orders have done nothing but damage to society, and it's long past the time they were abandoned entirely.
"Do you wish to feel the teachings of the Mandalorian wars, of all wars, of all trageties that scream across the galaxy? Let me show you, you who have forever seen the galaxy through the force. Seeit through the eyes of the exile..."(Force drain)
Kreia has to be one of my favourite characters from anything. She's so complex, can never fully figure her out.
You gotta give Obsidian credits for making one of the best and deepest plots in RPG history... if not THE best.
I've never played a game which dialogues are so full of questions and wisdom. And characters like Kreia and Nihilus are beyond any cliché of the typical villain. Aww damn i love this game.
I've only played as a LSF exile, so I never heard some of this dialog. Thanks for posting!
This was very cool - I liked the way you pieced all this together. It's such a shame that this game was never completed in its intended form. Kreia kicks ass and I think it would be nice if there were at least a few references of her in the upcoming 'Old Republic' game. Thanks for posting this.
Words can't describe this video...
Amazing Story writing is simply the obvious. It is a pity KOTOR 2 did not earn the respect it deserves.
The Character Kreia is one of the most amazing characters I have ever seen.
Love it.
Also, Atton makes a comment early in the game like "She (Kreia) might have been beautiful once...." I always thought this was a reference to this, since you wouldn't be able to tell how Kreia and Brianna look alike.
This is a very good video for 2009
Kreia’s voice is just so intoxicating. I could listen to her for hours.
This video kind of reminds me of the Revan Revelation cutscene from the first game, but with Kreia.
@AzurePrower time by her own two Sith apprentices, Sion and Nihilus. I think you know the reasons why they did this (their ambition, their impatience to slaughter the remaining Jedi etc etc). Then, stripped by her power and cast out again, the former Jedi Master Arren Kae, who became a Sith called Darth Traya, chose to definetly hide her persona and changed her name to Kreia, realizing that the art of betraying both the Sith and Jedi could bring the end of the Force, what she
KOTR is Back
IM HOPING FOR KREIA'S VOICE ACTRESS TO RETURN TOO
IM SO HYPED FOR KOTR 2 ALREADY AFTER KOTR 1 REMAKE
@Kahiara Yes, the game hints several times at Kreia and Jedi Master Arren Kae being one and the same, but unfortunately no canon source as of yet outright states that it is true.
MIND = BLOWN. KotOR 2 has always been one of my favorite games, and this just now dawned upon me. Especially considering how much I enjoy Brianna (the handmaiden). Its pretty weird to think that that woman in KotOR 2 I found the most appealing for a romance option is the daughter of the witch!
Thanks... It was one of the losing ends that i really would love to see a littel better...
I like her personality. She is the woman of great wisdom. True neutral.
Kreia is one of the best video game character I've ever seen. Much more advanced than the average in terms of work on dialogues and scenario.
over three hundred comments all really fucking surprised. Great catch, I loved Kreia as a character she is my all time favourite in star wars lore and you have made her ever deeper I my eyes.
I feel like this game is more about humanity’s imperfection than the force itself. The force doesn’t cause all these conflicts but human nature!
Come to think of it, training your companions in the force is the worst thing you can do. You make them reliant on something that has, time and time again, proven to kill more than it saves.
Thank you for this excellent summary video. It's amazing to realize, if you look around the net or at the discussions on Wookieepedia, that there are so many people who claim there is not sufficient evidence for this. It makes one wonder if they'd understand that Kreia was Darth Traya if she hadn't had the name floating over her head at the end.
@AzurePrower but she began training Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus during the Jedi Civil War and after, you know... Revan was redempted two or three years after the beginning of the Jedi Civil War, killed Malak, married Bastilla in secret, spent a year or two more in the Republic , then left into the Unknown Regions, leaving all those he cared about and loved behind to face the evil Sith Empire. Then... a year or two before the events from KotOR 2, Darth Traya was AGAIN exiled, this
The only things I tampered with are the braids of the Handmaiden, which aren't normally visible in that model, and the Disciple's lines, that just needed bug-fixing. The rest can be accessed in-game without any mods.
this is very well put together.
@ninjawest12
Yes, Atris took over her role as Jedi Historian and Keeper of the Archives, and later she is meant to take over her role as Darth Traya as well (in the cut content)
Didnt realize this even i have played it several times. (maybe i am stupid :) ) But there are hints. Hints that Kreila is Arren Kae. Hints that you didnt show but its there if i think of it. Lots of time passed and i still cant forget this game.
Holy %$#@ Even after all these years I NEVER put two and two together until this video! I never played as a Female so I never got the Disciple stuff, but still!! That was mindblowing and put a lot of stuff into context and made certain things make a lot more sense!! Thanks for for sharing!! (For those who missed it: The Handmaiden is Krea's Daughter)
Kreia for president 2016
No it’s for 2020
@@dar-nakkallig don't you realize this comment is from 2015-2016?😑
Best Star Wars Game Ever
And best Star Wars female character ever
Kreia followed Revan's footsteps, but did not follow him into war. She followed him to Malachor V eventually, where she discovered the Trayus Academy. There she became corrupted by its dark alignment.
In lack of any direct proof, I consulted Wookieepedia, the best source there is when you don't have any books/comics/games/etc to consult.
Indeed, the way Vader's story has been written and told doesn't do justice to a character that has fascinated millions of fans spanning multiple generations.
That would be awesome :)
As for the Knights of the Old Republic comic book, it ended at #50 in 2010. I loved it, it was really good, you should totally take a look at it.
Wow... and to think that when we first saw her she was just an old, dead-looking woman, which we didn't know nothing about. And at the end she turned out to be one the most interesting characters in the whole Star Wars Universe
Also: Kae + Traya = Kreia
Yeah, and Arren Kae is Kreia, or at least, that is what some believe.
Changed the thumbnail I see? Looks cool!
@inneedofakiss It would be interesting if they were to elaborate more on Kreia's role and history. In both games, Revan has such an impact on the Republic's and Jedi's history. Kreia's role in the creation of Revan and her interpretation of the Jedi code would make a great comic or novel even!
@Silkoo10 Have you seen Chris Avellone's blog about character backstory? Kreia appears between 40-80 years old, but the truth is that her wrinkles are a result of her days as a Sith. She merely passes it off as simply being old. Granted not all of the material listed there made it into the game, and some things were changed. But Mical says it himself: he recognized Kreia and not even "the markings of the dark side" could hide her identity
The dialogue in this game was very well written.
It was said that Revan went to find out how to best save the jedi. I think he did indeed go to Kreia about this. But i'll bet he went to Kae as well and asked of she how to best leave the Jedi order.
Damn,that brings tears to my eyes for reasons unknown to me.
If you are to truly understand then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single idea. It is to surrender yourself, to make yourself a slave to a teaching or belief, that makes it so belief will always rule you.----Kreia
@darthmaultest I really cannot agree with that. Kreia is so unique as a character, teacher, and villain. But the way how the plot reveals Kae's past and the way how Kreia speaks of her as a third person, leads me to believe that they are two different people.
this vid should have tons of views. nice job!!!!!!!
Wow, now the next time if I play this game I'll definitely be male and do a, Mom-Daughter reunion
This is an awesome theory - I actually believe it now. Wow.
Kreia is just so influential.
Everyone in this game when they're talking acts like someone is tickling them below.
@AzurePrower And more... Kreia isn't even her true name. Her real name was in fact Arren Kae, of course. After Arren Kae was exiled from the Jedi Order, she went to war with Revan, ended up on Malachor V and then she turned to the Dark Side after she found the Trayus Academy and studied the ancient Sith teachings that were hidden within it. Kae became a Sith, Darth Traya. After the Battle of Malachor V, all thought Arren Kae died during that final battle of the Mandalorian Wars,
I love these games and wish for a remastered version, basically updated graphics and extended stories with some more missions. Well, for one and two, the both of them can make a comeback, but they are fun to play, and if you have them through Steam, there are mods to help it. Plus, some mods for the 2nd to complete the game in a way.
Arren Kae/ Traya / Kreia - the force certainly had it’s way with her. She became a Jedi, she found love, she became a mother, she became a Sith, she was stripped of her connection to the force and she is still miserable but wise nonetheless.
Well, if you pay attention it's kind of obvious. Anyway I have added a few annotations to comment on each convo.
For all its technical flaws, and there were a lot, KotoR II deserves a special place in the Star Wars universe because it's the only one that I know of that dares to deviate from the movies. Here, the Jedi are not right, the force isn't light and dark or even necessarily good. There is only uncertain growth and consequences.
Another (small) clue to this is that when you ask Kreia for lightsaber combat (TSLRCM i think), Kreia says, (This is not exact, btw), "You have wanted to strike me down since you saw the bond me and the exile posses.", and Visas says, (about her lightsassber), "I shall die before it passes into your hands.". This clearly means they don't like eachother, much like how Brianna and Visas hate each other.