One thing I think almost no one talks about in this scene is how it's probably the one, single time except for the very end that we get a totally unfiltered view of Kreia's feelings towards The Exile. The way she tells the Masters, "You will not harm her, you will not harm her *ever again* " feels like a mother protecting her child from an abuser. It's something I wish I could have had in my dark moments.
@@willroyful I totally missed your response, yet some "force" wanted me to read it one year later at 3:30 AM. Your words are familiar to me, but sometimes you need someone to remind them to you. The importance of not being afraid and letting the story grow. I'm actually writing something that has grown quite a lot, and I will keep nurturing it until one day - that I know will come - it will be finished. Thanks a lot for the encouragement.
darkanguiel I feel the same. I recently got accepted into my dream school where I’ll get to write for games at an industry standard and I’m so hopeful that it will pan out. I hope your story is going well, if you’re still working on it or if you’ve finished.
@@daddydevito. That's great man, always happy to hear about other people pursuing their dreams!! I am still working on it, but getting very, very close to finishing. It's amazing how the whole thing has grown over the last 3 years. Hope to see your name in some big game's credits in the future! Best of luck!
Anyone who ever hit some serious traumatic low point in their lives can relate to this game. This game is very much about trauma and being broken and how you can go on from there and make it source of strength. When I hit that point in my life the worst depression came over me for years, feeling like there is nothing left to do but wait to die. What happens is you wait to somehow snap out of it, to be the old you again. To be the same person you are used to being. Process of growth and healing starts with acceptance. This is what this game helped me to learn. At one point it hit me that I will never be the old me again. That whatever the trauma did to me is not temporary change but that THIS IS ME NOW for better or worse. And how embracing that can lead you to new strengths. KOTOR 2 is about that. While Jedi Masters here look at exile and they see nothing but broken diminished person, Kreia saw someone who's lack of connection to force can be source of new strength by itself.
@@daviddavidson9923 a beautiful thing to realize is when you are at your lowest, in the darkest spot, is you have nothing left but to rise. Once you experience your darkest day every other day must be brighter than then.
Thank you for that comment, it is an enlightening realisation indeed. I have also been doing this for quite a long time, comparing myself to the past, idealised version of me, a version that will never exist again. So the only way is forward, to reimagine and recreate ourselves.
I love this comment so much. Rewatching KOTOR 2 gameplay, esp the Tomb of Ludo Kressh, is making me want to load up another round ASAP. I feel like playing this at an older age has allowed me to appreciate it more because I relate to it now, as opposed to just thinking it's cool and cinematic and impressive when I was young. This scene carries a different weight for me now and this comment has shown me that it's a universal experience across fans. Thank you.
@@crim1188 the end of the force is the end of the jedi council, the reason they died when kreia used the power to take the force from them was because they relied on it they couldn't let it go the way Meetra Surik(the exile) did, the same thing would've happened if the force died, either way she would go "ham" on the jedi, and she is in a way about their deaths, when she wins she wanted it to be because she was right, her teachings right and when she did what she did to the jedi she was proving herself right about how the jedi relied and wouldn't let go of the force
Kreia and the Exile's character taught me to count my blessings, and cut my losses. When I find myself at the bottom of the pit of my depression, there is no shame in being afraid, I need only remember to breathe, and get back up and start over. What KOTOR 2, and this scene especially, is to me is all about triumph and rebirth.
I actually saw a way out through the example of Sion. Even tho pain was a curse to him. It was also his strenght. Thats what i understood. To use pain to my advantage. And when it became enslaved to me. There was no pain at all. And it brought lots of progress.
"You were - You were deafened - At last, you could hear - You were broken - You were whole - You were blinded - And, at last, you saw I finally understand what this means. It's because, by cutting herself off from the Force, the Exile finally heard and saw the universe for what it truly was, not how it looks through the lenses of the Force. It was like being pulled from the Matrix, being awakened from the dream and brought back to reality.
"You must've noticed as you fought across all these planets, killing hundreds, only to become more and more powerful. Why do you think that was?" That's not my fault! I thought I was just leveling up! For Force's sake, do you even know how many bounty hunters tried to kill me because they thought I was the last of the Jedi? All those Gand... and the Zhugs.
@@mikaelantonkurki True but it's still cute. You do level up from killing enemies, so it's still true what Zez says. KOTOR and KOTOR 2 are two games you can't get through without killing some enemies.
I noticed the troubles with the game aspect of KoToR2 when I tried to play following Kreias philosophy. You wanna just do that little thing to get EXP? "WHY ARE YOU WEAKENING OTHERS?!"
@@makara4615 The problem with the game is that it suggests following a grey path, but gameplay-wise it rewards you for going full light or dark side. Still love the game though.
@@michalk.9174 Probably my favorite aspect of that is in the bonus you get from being a Jedi or a Sith. If you choose the light side bonus is an extra 3 wisdom, while the dark side bonus is an extra 50 FP. Since the Exile gets the alignment mastery bonus twice, once for the base class and once for the prestige class, that means the Consular>Jedi Master gets an extra 6 wisdom, while the Consular>Sith Lord gets an extra 100 FP. The Sith Lord's benefit is obvious immediately, they can use their force powers a lot more often. By comparison, a level 15:1 Jedi Master only has an extra 48 FP, and their greater resistance to force powers and the greater effectiveness to their own isn't worth much at that point. But what about at level 50? The Sith Lord still has that same extra 100 FP, while the Jedi Master's additional plus 3 to their wisdom modifier translates to an extra 150 FP, plus a greater resistance to offensive force powers, plus their own force powers are more effective across the board. The dark side gives a more obvious immediate benefit, but a patient master of the light side will eventually be equal, or even superior to the dark side master. It mirrors Luke&Yoda's coversation. Is the dark side stronger? No, quicker, easier, more seductive.
My favorite moment of this is when the Jedi Masters are cut off from the Force. They do not die from a lightsaber blow, Force lighting or choke, but just from an absence of the Force. They relied on it for too long and when they lose it they go into shock. Their greatest strength was turned into their greatest weakness
"In you, we saw a wound in the Force." "In you, we saw the end of the Force." "You are a cipher, forming bonds. Leaching off of the life of others. Siphoning their will and dominating them."
Nihilus: *eeeeeeehhhhaaaanuuuvaaaa* (sneezes) Sith soldier: What? Nihilus: *NNNaaaaaasiiiivaaaasooootttaaaavvvaaayyyyaaaa! (Somebody talking about me without wanting to.) Sith trooper: Should we go kill them, my lord? Nihilus: Lllloooollllniiiivaaaayooooraaaannnnaaa (Nevermind, just a bunch of old dumbass f**ks.)
They were wrong about that as well, at least on LS playthrough, the bond with the followers was symbiotic, the exile was healing the wounds of the past from them, while they were also helping the exile heal it's wounds as well
All of them had traumatic backgrounds and even atton making horrible things, but only through the exile they were able to heal from their past, every single one of them Canderous got abandoned by Revan, same as the droids, and don't you think that you slowly repairing the droids is just a plot device, even that is a clue to the fact that you're healing everybody, Atton got hurt and traumatized by his experience with the Sith, Mical and Brianna have this kind of not being traumatized but losing their paths, both were force sensitives that couldn't become Jedi because of circumstances, and you're there to heal that too, think of it like their destinies got healed Visas:..... Obvious.... She is a lost child with no family, no place to return to, broken women sodomized by an eldritch being Mira being able to grant Hanharr mercy and killing him and then living her last year's doing what she was supposed to do, she was a spirit made to help others, and she took pleasure on that, and the exile is the one who can take her off her life as a bounty hunter and set her into a path where she can help others. Hanharr died LMAO, but that was his wish, and what was wrong about his life anyway. Bao dur finally came into terms with the war by having Canderous on the party and reactivating the mass shadow generator this time to help heal the exile, in a sense healing others is also a way to heal yourself I guess the only one I'm not sure is G0T0, I didn't really care about him except for the fat droid jokes HK made, but he was trying to heal the republic or whatever And well if I'm gonna say anything about Kreia would take a long time, as Kreia was the one who was manipulating the exile into being healed
dude people don’t realize how on point the writing in this scene is. vrook says “what you carry could mean the death of the force, and the death of the jedi!” notice how his most important point in that statement is the end of the jedi, in front of the force. he is blinded by dogma, he would sooner protect the jedi, over the force itself.
Jakub Yeah, because when I read Romeo and Juliet, I totally felt a deep resonance when I heard that bs excuse that Fate was responsible for the death of Romeo and Juliet. Because it wasn’t their fault that they were reckless, irrational, and rash. It wasn’t their fault that they made their decisions based on emotional whims and fanciful ideas of love. Please, don’t be so ridiculous as to take what he said literally. Obviously there are better scenes in fiction, however it does not make this “okay”. It is still great, and what a shock it was. All this time, you were fighting Sith who would consume the Force around them, and then you realize you are the same way; you are a gaping hole in the Force. The betrayal of the Jedi Masters, who you saved, helped, and brought together. They tried to strip you of your connection to the Force, and still be complacent about the rising Sith Empire. And then to learn that your master, your mentor and grandmother figure, was the Sith Lord behind all of it all along. You had to travel to Malachor, the place that made you such a wound in the Force and face her. You found Kreia, the one who guided you, cradled you back into the Force, and was forced to kill her. She told you hat she loved you, and you were forced to let her die in the depths of Malachor V. This scene is among the best writing in video game storytelling anyone could ever see. It is a wonderful story, and I’d read such a tragedy like this again, if it were literature.
This scene is so bittersweet to me. I love it, I return to it constantly, but I cry at "It is because you were, afraid" every time because deep down I know we are never going to get writing of this quality ever again.
RIP Ed Asner, the voice behind Vrook Lamar Lamar was a dogmatic Jedi played to perfection and easily definable by BioWare and Asner himself farewell, and be sure to send us a postcard from Paradise Falls
The theme of pain opening your eyes to reality of things is something I've rarely seen in media in general. Truly a Star Wars milk bucket worth praising.
I usually don't use rude language but, in this scene, Chris Avellone made videogame's storytelling his bitch. He has some of the best scripts in the industry and has proven again and again that he has great talent. But this scene... Jesus Christ on a monocycle, this may be the best written scene in game history.
KoTOR 2 is such a unique study of extremity, duality, and consequentialism. You know what quality is when you can still form nostalgic memories about it way after childhood. Would love to see a KoTOR 3 with a story of deconstruction on technology or something. This was from a time where graphics were just as important if not less than content and boy I miss it.
I love the sad, paranoic and depressing vibe of the game. The lessons about fear and the world after destruction along with the harsh 2004 graphic and sad, depressing soundtrack with little hope and various character voices made it truly a very memorable experience.
It just occurred to me the simplicity of what's happening here when the Jedi Masters blame you for your 'force bond power'. They state it as something that happens "between a Master and apprentice", and that you can find that bond so much more easily that it is a problem. The great power that these Jedi Masters are so afraid of in you is just untempered EMPATHY. They've trained so hard to seal away their emotions, and approach others with an understanding that relies on calculation. They see the shadows and echos of emotion, but are so far 'advanced in the Jedi way' that they no longer understand the basics of it directly. They suck at truly understanding people, and you, with your force powers and ability to empathize, frighten them. And because fear is an emotion too, instead of seeing things for what they are, you are just a danger to existence to them. It could be pretty dang meta too, when I think about it. We see the story through the eyes of the Exile, and we control the Exile... We see every character's story as a player audience, it is the point of those stories even existing, and we don't have a lifetime of Jedi training tainting us from it, or from what we make the Exile do in response to it. The Jedi Masters are, in a way, afraid of the player's investment in the story.
That was not why they were afraid. They were afraid for she was a wound in the force, she would/could mean the end of the force, and that was frightening to them. Since unlike Kreia, they did not see the consequences of it, they did not see that the death of the force was necessary. And THAT is why they're afraid, they're afraid not because of strength or power, but because they didn't know, they couldn't understand, the death of the force was necessary.
@@edvindenbeste2587 That existed, in the details, but I'm still convinced the overall fear they had revolved around how bad they are at empathy. They refused to realize it, and fell upon the excuse of Meetra being a wound in the force to justify themselves. Meetra had to push them to care about the galaxy at all first, because they didn't, they were split doing their own casual things. Darth Nihilus was already the epitome of the threat they worried about, but she had to push them to do anything... And when they did, they focused on Meetra first, instead of understanding and prioritizing threats. That takes a severe lack of empathy to weigh things as they did. They didn't die because Meetra's a wound in the force, they died because they lumped a potential ally in as being just as much a problem as the Sith Lord of the void hunting them. It didn't matter how 'force wound' stuff could have gone anyways, their fear of empathy got them killed first.
@@Heimdal001 The thing is, the galaxy wasn't under such a big threat from Nihilus, he didn't do anything against it, it was fought through the force. So by hiding and waiting on the threat to show itself, they didn't really "Hide when the galaxy died around them" it was they who were hiding to be able to defeat the threat. They didn't know Meetra had met Sion. They though she had just met some of the assassins, some of the crude matter sent after them.
@@edvindenbeste2587 Nihilus had drained the planet Katarr of the force, killing just about everyone, specifically because of the Jedi Conclave there. The Jedi masters knew the threat, and hid in wait for a time to strike. During that hiding time, they searched for no answers or understanding of the threat while it grew, or they thought they already understood. Though it is true, they could never have beaten Nihilus themselves anyways... But when the time came, they chose to deal with Meetra first, because of her situation, despite it being what makes her the only solution to the Nihilus problem. They did see Meetra have the potential to doom the galaxy as well, but a total failure at empathy lead them to consider which doom they wanted for the galaxy, rather than see how one 'potential doom' could choose to be savior instead. They unwittingly almost saved Nihilus from his only threat.
@@Heimdal001 The thing is Katarr died because the Jedi gathered. The Jedi masters tried understanding the threat, but hid for the fear that more worlds would die. They did it out of empathy. They saw the threats, but the threats were stronger and more strategic. Meetra couldn't have won alone. The only reason she won was that Kreia wanted her to. Saying the masters couldn't have beaten them is a null point since the Jedi masters would have better chances of it than Meetra would, unless Kreia saw that Meetra could kill the force.
It’s funny how before revealing herself one of her last lines to you is that she needs to “center” herself. A play on words to keep herself Balanced between Light and Darkness.
Zez Kai El represents a man who knows that he and his teachings are flawed, but is too afraid to walk a different path. Is even afraid at the mere possibility of there being a different choice. Kavar is like a hypocrite because he tasted the call of war and yet still turned away from the truth, still abandoned the Exile when he of all of them knew what she experienced and understood why she did what she did. Vrook is too prideful and driven by the belief that everything the Jedi do is so right that there cannot be any fault. He views that the fall of a Jedi is not due of the Order’s failings, but because of a person’s character. Atris is in a way like Vrook, but only because she is so blinded by the supposed betrayal of her idol that she twists the realisation that her Order is flawed into something far worse. When in actuality, she envies the choice the Exile made but will deny it until her dying breath. It would have been interesting to see Vash’s flaws had she not been cut/killed.
"Do you wish to feel the teachings born of the Mandalorian Wars, of all wars, of all the tragedies that scream across the galaxy?! Let me show you...the galaxy...through the eyes of the Exile!" (My personal take) Kreia does not strip the Jedi Masters of the Force. She merely shows them, - causes them - to personally experience all of the pain and suffering that the Exile suffered during the Mandalorian Wars, and specifically the events of Malachor V. And, the pain is so unimaginably traumatic that, in that moment, they do what the Exile did, which was to cut themselves off from the Force. However, as they are so completely reliant on the Force, they are unable to survive. The Exile's connection to others, her ability to form bonds, is what made her pain so much the greater when she ordered the activation of the Mass Shadow Generator, which killed her friends and comrades, and it is THIS pain that the Masters too, experienced in their final moments. However, reading the comments section makes me realize that other people are so much smarter than I am.
It might be a bit more nuanced than that. I think that they could, if they had the strength that Exile had to cut themselves off from the force as the Exile did but they were not willing or able to do it.
This is why I say this is when the Jedi started losing their way. They refuse to help a person in need. The Exile is really a ironic character; she and Kreia is helping me get out of my depression. They show that there are hope.
Indeed, always watch this video every time i have bad times. Always, the inner voices tried to make me down every time i have bad time. And this scene, help me to remember my will, way of life. --- You're deafened, At last, you're heard... You're broken You whole... You're blinded At last, you saw... --- Such knowledge lies in every words in this scene... No, in this masterpiece lies secret knowledge of life. I'm not regret playing this game, and i always appreciate every time i repeat this game again.
This scene makes me wanna play DS just because of these thickheaded so called "masters" who always relied on others like Revan, Malak and the Exile to solve their problems for them. It almost feels like they are jealous that they cannot fight the Sith like the Exile can, and punishes her for it.
Not accepting fear means they you will never acknowledge it and overcome it. In the end, it could be argued that they were ill-prepared to control their fear despite a lifetime of avoiding it.
I still remember this ever since playing it on the original xbox in elementary. Now my laat year of school is practically over. A lot of emotions in something so simple
20 years later and I am still furious about the ignorance of the "Jedi Masters"... I dunno why but the soundtrack of Kotor2 is giving me the chills although there is always this sense of a greater danger lying ahead.
These Jedi were a waste of air. They're better off dead for taking little to no action when the galaxy was in trouble. That and how they tried killing the Jedi exile when she wanted to rally the remaining Jedi to fight the Sith. The Sith that these same Jedi denied existed.
Thank you. I went all out for this one. Be sure to check out my version of the scene "passing judgement". It's very similar, but I added some missing scenes. You can find it here: th-cam.com/video/v416Ri38O7g/w-d-xo.html
one of my favorite videos on TH-cam haha. I'm glad this inspired you. I used to only use TH-cam for music but every now and then I wanted a bit of thinking and to hear Sara Kessleman's powerful performance. It was the scene I would turn to
I didn't understand this until I replayed Korriban in this game again earlier today, in bloody 2020, but the Jedi Masters are wrong about something important here- The Exile wouldn't nessecarily have died at Malachor if they hadn't cut themselves off from the force. They might've just become another Scion, or another Nihilus. That's the point of the Dark Side version of this scene- in that version of the game, the exile belongs among the Sith Triumvirate, but when she gazed into the abyss, where Scion and Nihilus and Kreia and even Revan all grabbed out for power, the Exile was afraid, and cut themselves off from it. Shit, I need to actually go back and do a Dark Side playthrough now, don't I? I haven't since I was a kid and didn't get any of this nonsense.
You're close, but the thing is. The exile would fit with Sion and Nihilus, but not Kreia and Revan. Kreia and Revan did not succumb to power, to apathy for the sake of power. Revan wanted to save the republic, ironically, by defeating it and mobilising it against the Sith lurking in the uknown regions. Kreia wanted to destroy the force. You cannot really say that Kreia and Revan succumbed to power, they used it as a tool. But if the exile did not cut themselves off from the force, and as you said, go DS. They would succumb to apathy.
I saw this video before I played KOTOR 2 myself, and although I found the video pleasing, I didn't fully understand the gravity of the situation until I reached that moment through my own journey. The days of exploration, growth, and character development all hinted towards this, yet without the understanding of what the exile is the weight of the scene isn't as heavy. I felt cold after this revelation, realizing that despite my efforts to restore the galaxy that I was the threat unknowingly consuming it out of habit.
If Nihilus and Exile are different sides of the same coin as rumored throughout this game, why they chose different paths instinctively? Both became wounds, one that leeches on life and force of others, one that shut herself off not to do the same. If they are placed in the same situation again, will they choose the same paths again? Are they inherently good or bad, do they have free will or force, like Kreia hated, tried to balance things out again? If it was the force's doing, then Kreia was an unknowing pawn and like all sith, hate, hate of the force fuelled her. The ending of the game was rushed and controversial but, I believe Kreia knew her position as a pawn, at least instinctively. She protected, taught and pushed Exile to defeat the Nihilus, bring the balance to the force and at the end, what she wanted to hear was that she could be redeemed. Of course, all these questions and connections are rhetorical but shows how much this rabbit hole of a game can go deeper and deeper.
I think that a lot of people assume that Kreia is always right, and that everything she says throughout the game is meant to be taken as the correct opinion, but I don't think that's true. Kreia presents herself as the Exile's teacher, but we know from this scene that this whole time she was the one who wanted to learn from the Exile. Kreia isn't just a medium to push some kind of a philosophy, she's a character with her own past, and with her own flaws. In a way, she's the Exile's opposite: she was thrown out of the Jedi order, then thrown out of the Sith, and then had the Force stripped from her, while the Exile defied the Jedi, rejected the dark side, and even rejected the Force itself. It's easy to see why Kreia, who would come to hate the Jedi, the Sith, and the Force ,would see her as an ideal: someone who was capable of avoiding all the mistakes Kreia herself had made. Kreia seems to expect to find that the Exile is similar to herself, with Kreia being stoic, rational, and prejudiced against everyone she considers beneath her, or unworthy of her respect. With lightside Exile as the most canon version she finds someone whom she considers to display acts of weakness, especially when it comes to mercy and helping others. Kreia even scoffs at the idea of the Exile having friends rather than servants. The Exile's kindness confuses Kreia, but I think that this trait is the explaining factor behind everything that happened to her. The Exile's ability to form Force Bonds is not some kind of special talent,(like Bastila and her Battle Meditation) the Exile simply never took the Jedi Code to heart. She refused to shut herself off from forming connections to others, to feel empathy, to feel emotion, and to do what she feels is right. The Jedi teach that you have to shut yourself off from others and your own feelings. The Exile confused them with her ability to form Force bonds because she could form connections to others while remaining on the light side, which to them seemed an impossible contradiction(It’s funny to think about how the Jedi are so terrified of this Force freak who can control people’s minds and draw on their strength when she’s just a charismatic person that shows basic empathy to people around her, something alien to Jedi). This is also related to why the Exile defied the council and went to go fight in the Mandalorian Wars. This is why Kreia says "You were afraid", almost with contempt, to the Exile. Kreia expected the Exile to be a Messiah, and a stoic sage capable of acting rationally in the most desperate of circumstances. But the reason the Exile survived wasn't through strength per se, but because of vulnerability. While other Jedi would either break and turn to the dark side, or break and die from the shock during Malachor 5, the Exile was still open to her own emotions. We're told that her decision to cut herself off from the Force was almost subconscious, and that is because it was because of fear, and fear is something that neither the Sith nor Jedi consider to be strength, because fear weakens their connection to the Force. This is hinted at by conversations with Atton and HK-47, who both talk about techniques that weaken both Jedi and Sith by using guilt, lust, and fear. Her connection to her fellow Jedi created a massive echo, and her own fear of the pain that was to come deafened her to the Force. In a lot of ways Kreia was right about the Exile: she confronted her emotions rather than hide from them, and she followed her own moral compass rather than those imposed on her, and she was truly capable of rejecting the Force instead of letting it corrupt her. But I think part of the reason why Kreia turns so violent near the end is because, on a personal level, she sees the Exile as soft and has a hard time believing that her vulnerability is a source of such personal strength. She has to test if the Exile is truly as strong as she initially believed. I really wish we could create a character like the Exile in Star Wars somewhere again. Specifically, a Force user that is not special in any silly way like being part of this or that bloodline, but someone who is special because of who they are as a person. The Exile, and KOTOR 2, really dug into exactly how toxic both the Jedi and the Sith are, and how important our connections to others are, and how both the Jedi and the Sith work to destroy them.
I don't actually think Kreia's being contemptuous at the end of this clip, I think her pointing towards the Exile's fear is a compliment because the Exile's instinctual capacity to persevere, to maintain her sense of self, was stronger than her spiritual connection to the force. None of the Jedi masters, not even Kreia, have the force of will to so cleanly sever their ties to the force, she says as much. Even on a purely instinctual level, the Exile is more of a *person* than any other force user we meet because she simply doesn't *need* the Force. I think Kreia's contempt near the end of the game is in itself another test for the Exile, not because she views the Exile as soft, but because she wishes to force the Exile to self-actualize into her new self. Kreia wishes to deny the exile ANY chance to settle into her old patterns, to return to the life of a proper Jedi, and so she forces the Exile's hand in slaying her, even if the Exile does so with only compassion in their heart. Kreia's hate for the exile is a new test of the Exile's strength, not because she views the Exile as soft, or weak, but because she now sees the Exile as one sees a butterfly about to burst from its shell, an entirely new creature. She just needs to push you one last time so that you finally bloom.
Been playing this game since before I have cohesive memories. I only just now, some 15 years later, realized how much playing dark side effects dialogue.
Kreaia knew I was in no position to go fight inn the mandalorian wars was my choice but the Jedi didn’t understand what was really going on I love you Kreaia but you know I was right in a lot of ways my teacher we cradle one another forever we will have this bond, I’m no longer reven but I still will be so much more but thank you Kreaia for being my teacher I will always love you your student Papatia Quinn forever
This game with this scene proves one point, not learning from what you have done dooms you to make the same mistakes. Like the jedi they refused to learn and see that they were leading their students astray, that it was their teaching that led their student to fall, while the exile learned from the events that transpired in her past , the bad choices , all the death that she caused and followed her only to give up the force in order to understand and move on with her life. Even if she rediscovered this power later she understood one thing, the force is life and the journey you share with those close to you is the most important. While her dogmatic counterparts believed that self isolation and teaching other to do the same only to serve but not live is the only thing that the force wants, never understanding the force as they should have. Wish we had KOTOR 3 and more background on the life of these characters.
I was 15 when i played this... And can't understand the deeper meanings... But i'm 30 now and starting to understand few things but i feel that i'm not even scratching the surface...
It's theorized Kreia used to be Arren Kae. It's possible she sees in the Exile a second chance at motherhood, while also furthering her agenda. That's why her voice is like ice.
I would actually say they are not, they were wrong. But you cannot really expect them to see what Kreia saw, or rather, see it the same way. The council saw danger in the exile, Kreia saw hope in her, for the same reason. The end if the force.
@@fauzanabdulkahfi957 they didn't accuse the exile of being a sith lord, the only one who had even accused her of straying from the light was Atris, and she was herself only a Jedi in name. They saw that she was a threat to the force, that she could not feel the force and that she was a wound in it. Of course, the force can be argued deserved to die, but that's for another time
2:57 so the death of the force * what makes them special * is worse than the teachings of the sith...hmmm I wonder if sith would feel the same way about jedi
I think this scene is better as a male exile because for some reason kreia seems like she cares a lot more about what’s going on through her voice than female exile
Oh they will take your millions and still not give you what you want... They will only give you what they think they want... Really disney is far more evil than the sith...
It’s a shame I couldn’t get this scene. I sided with General Vaklu because I didn’t think it mattered as long as I got to speak with Kavar. Sadly, he left me with no choice but to kill him, thus resulting in the game thinking my mission was to eliminate the Jedi despite already sparing the other two. I was light side too!
Just food for thought, maybe you could post the seld-trodden paths of a dark side character who spared the masters, and a light side character who killed them? The dialogue is apparently different in such situations.
Look up KOTOR Aperion, its an offical remake of the original Kotor game being completely overseen by Disney, their twitter uploads new images and updates on it all the time.
So much false info in once sentence. It's not an official remake nor is it overseen by Disney. It's a fan project and Disney hasn't commented on it yet and so far it's looking very promising.
this is not as powerful revelation as player revealed to be Darth Revan in KOTOR 1, but still this moment gives me chills in my bones, and some goose bumps..
I will never get this cutscene. I don't keep Vrook or Kavar alive, as I want the galaxy to see they can make it without the Order. It's a shame. But perhaps Atris and her servants can be made to see the truth...I wished there was an option for her to be cut off from the Force as well...
Please excuse my ignorance, but what was it that the Exile was "afraid" of? Was the fear of death, the pain of death, or was she afraid of the moment before death when you don't know what'll happen next and your desperately clutching at life?
Xo is close when saying the death around her. She is afraid of feeling the death around her at Malachor V and moving past it. Think of the death of a loved one or the pain of loss KOTOR2 is really about healing the trauma that comes after. For a more direct comparison the exile and force relationship is akin nuances to trauma and mental health. Basically she is afraid of pain and loss in a real life sense. KOTOR2 is obviously after that using the present to show the healing using Kreia as a narrator of sorts to view the healing process of trauma. One other key point is the idea of Jedi in practice versus lore reality. The ideas of the Jedi and emotion being evil is that emotion should not guide your decisions as anger and hate will never lead to a good outcome, and fear should be overcome not acted upon because if you do not face the fear then it will lead to animosity that controls your life and very easily leads to anger. The trauma comes into play when looking at the grieving process and how those emotions are easy to act on such as fear of loss, or anger.
@@St0ne69 Thanks a lot. I think your explanation also explains to me what Revan wanted the Jedi Counsel to see when Meetra returned to them. HK mentions that Malek wanted her killed for not joining them, but Revan belayed the order. If what you say is true, then the Exile truly does prove the hypocrisy in the Jedi's teaching of detachment
Today it was announced that the Game of Thrones showrunners are going to make ‘a series of films’ in the Star Wars universe. “Focusing on a certain point in time” many have speculated that these films will be based on the Kotor games. Given how the showrunners used the ASOIAF books and adapted them to television. I, for one, hope that Disney/Lucasfilm don’t try to adapt these games to film. I do not believe they will do the themes, characters, and conflicts any justice.
In film? It would be pretty difficult to adapt properly. In television? That'd be more reasonable. But hey, worst case scenario they fail and we ignore their existence.
@MemesAreDreams only because GOT split from the source material in season 5, after that the whole thing goes downhill pretty quick, this was partly because the books were not finished yet. This wouldn't be a problem for KOTOR as it is already completely written, it should, in theory, be a simple matter of adapting it and not having to write the stories and the ending themselves.
@@ABFan-bj2uj Well from a more abstract viewpoint, they might as well be. But that's not what I mean. I explain in this video I made: th-cam.com/video/RPU0HdOnOKQ/w-d-xo.html
Could of swore there was another line Kreia instead says "Because you Had no Choice" instead of "Because you were afraid". Almost positive it was because I was either Darkside or Neutral Darksided, (Did bad things but choose not to kill the Jedi and we still meet on Dantooine).
I appreciate that KOTOR 2 acknowledge that the death of an entire planet is super traumatizing, especially for people who are literally connected to the universe and life. In the new movies an entire STAR SYSTEM was destroyed and not a single force user(or any other person who might have had family or friends in that sector) reacts in any way. Its the equivalent of couple nukes dropping in a populated city and nobody gives a shit. In a new hope they at least have Obi Wan and Lea react, even though Lea gets over her home getting vaporized pretty fast. Since the Star Wars money machine has no sign of slowing down, I am really hoping somebody does something with the post-war-PTSD concept
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
One thing I think almost no one talks about in this scene is how it's probably the one, single time except for the very end that we get a totally unfiltered view of Kreia's feelings towards The Exile.
The way she tells the Masters, "You will not harm her, you will not harm her *ever again* " feels like a mother protecting her child from an abuser. It's something I wish I could have had in my dark moments.
"In you, we saw a wound in the force."
"In you, we saw the end of the force."
Star Wars has never been better than this.
I dream about, some day, writing something as good as this.
Waw people actually know how to write story's the right way.
@@willroyful I totally missed your response, yet some "force" wanted me to read it one year later at 3:30 AM.
Your words are familiar to me, but sometimes you need someone to remind them to you. The importance of not being afraid and letting the story grow. I'm actually writing something that has grown quite a lot, and I will keep nurturing it until one day - that I know will come - it will be finished.
Thanks a lot for the encouragement.
Imagine owning this property to even share this story to more people who haven't played this game. And ignoring it. Thanks disney.
darkanguiel I feel the same. I recently got accepted into my dream school where I’ll get to write for games at an industry standard and I’m so hopeful that it will pan out.
I hope your story is going well, if you’re still working on it or if you’ve finished.
@@daddydevito. That's great man, always happy to hear about other people pursuing their dreams!! I am still working on it, but getting very, very close to finishing. It's amazing how the whole thing has grown over the last 3 years.
Hope to see your name in some big game's credits in the future! Best of luck!
Anyone who ever hit some serious traumatic low point in their lives can relate to this game. This game is very much about trauma and being broken and how you can go on from there and make it source of strength.
When I hit that point in my life the worst depression came over me for years, feeling like there is nothing left to do but wait to die. What happens is you wait to somehow snap out of it, to be the old you again. To be the same person you are used to being.
Process of growth and healing starts with acceptance. This is what this game helped me to learn. At one point it hit me that I will never be the old me again. That whatever the trauma did to me is not temporary change but that THIS IS ME NOW for better or worse. And how embracing that can lead you to new strengths.
KOTOR 2 is about that. While Jedi Masters here look at exile and they see nothing but broken diminished person, Kreia saw someone who's lack of connection to force can be source of new strength by itself.
Always good to see someone who has learned one of the *right* lessons.
@@daviddavidson9923 a beautiful thing to realize is when you are at your lowest, in the darkest spot, is you have nothing left but to rise. Once you experience your darkest day every other day must be brighter than then.
Thank you for that comment, it is an enlightening realisation indeed. I have also been doing this for quite a long time, comparing myself to the past, idealised version of me, a version that will never exist again. So the only way is forward, to reimagine and recreate ourselves.
I love this comment so much. Rewatching KOTOR 2 gameplay, esp the Tomb of Ludo Kressh, is making me want to load up another round ASAP. I feel like playing this at an older age has allowed me to appreciate it more because I relate to it now, as opposed to just thinking it's cool and cinematic and impressive when I was young. This scene carries a different weight for me now and this comment has shown me that it's a universal experience across fans. Thank you.
Yes... this game is all about PTSD
- You were deafened
- At last, you could hear
- You were broken
- You were whole
- You were blinded
- And, at last, you saw
kreia is about enough of the jedis. she's going HAM!
Shows her wisdom in comparison to the arrogance of the Jedi council
@@keithfoester7326 Kreia isn't about the end of jedi. She means to end the force as a whole
Philosophy in a nutshell. I LOVE IT!
@@crim1188 the end of the force is the end of the jedi council, the reason they died when kreia used the power to take the force from them was because they relied on it they couldn't let it go the way Meetra Surik(the exile) did, the same thing would've happened if the force died, either way she would go "ham" on the jedi, and she is in a way about their deaths, when she wins she wanted it to be because she was right, her teachings right and when she did what she did to the jedi she was proving herself right about how the jedi relied and wouldn't let go of the force
Kreia and the Exile's character taught me to count my blessings, and cut my losses. When I find myself at the bottom of the pit of my depression, there is no shame in being afraid, I need only remember to breathe, and get back up and start over. What KOTOR 2, and this scene especially, is to me is all about triumph and rebirth.
At last you saw ...
I actually saw a way out through the example of Sion. Even tho pain was a curse to him. It was also his strenght. Thats what i understood. To use pain to my advantage. And when it became enslaved to me. There was no pain at all. And it brought lots of progress.
Replaying Kotor2 over and over got me through one of the worst times in my life and motivated me to buy a house.
Dude this game shaped my philosophical outlook on life.
I commend you for taking the teachings of this game on, good on you man!
"You were - You were deafened
- At last, you could hear
- You were broken
- You were whole
- You were blinded
- And, at last, you saw
I finally understand what this means. It's because, by cutting herself off from the Force, the Exile finally heard and saw the universe for what it truly was, not how it looks through the lenses of the Force. It was like being pulled from the Matrix, being awakened from the dream and brought back to reality.
3:06 I love how they explain the leveling system in the game as part of the story.
"You must've noticed as you fought across all these planets, killing hundreds, only to become more and more powerful. Why do you think that was?"
That's not my fault! I thought I was just leveling up! For Force's sake, do you even know how many bounty hunters tried to kill me because they thought I was the last of the Jedi? All those Gand... and the Zhugs.
This kind of falls apart when it becomes clear that you get XP from peaceful outcomes as well (kotor is not unique from other rpgs in this regard).
@@mikaelantonkurki True but it's still cute. You do level up from killing enemies, so it's still true what Zez says. KOTOR and KOTOR 2 are two games you can't get through without killing some enemies.
I noticed the troubles with the game aspect of KoToR2 when I tried to play following Kreias philosophy. You wanna just do that little thing to get EXP? "WHY ARE YOU WEAKENING OTHERS?!"
@@makara4615 The problem with the game is that it suggests following a grey path, but gameplay-wise it rewards you for going full light or dark side. Still love the game though.
@@michalk.9174 Probably my favorite aspect of that is in the bonus you get from being a Jedi or a Sith.
If you choose the light side bonus is an extra 3 wisdom, while the dark side bonus is an extra 50 FP. Since the Exile gets the alignment mastery bonus twice, once for the base class and once for the prestige class, that means the Consular>Jedi Master gets an extra 6 wisdom, while the Consular>Sith Lord gets an extra 100 FP. The Sith Lord's benefit is obvious immediately, they can use their force powers a lot more often. By comparison, a level 15:1 Jedi Master only has an extra 48 FP, and their greater resistance to force powers and the greater effectiveness to their own isn't worth much at that point. But what about at level 50? The Sith Lord still has that same extra 100 FP, while the Jedi Master's additional plus 3 to their wisdom modifier translates to an extra 150 FP, plus a greater resistance to offensive force powers, plus their own force powers are more effective across the board. The dark side gives a more obvious immediate benefit, but a patient master of the light side will eventually be equal, or even superior to the dark side master.
It mirrors Luke&Yoda's coversation.
Is the dark side stronger?
No, quicker, easier, more seductive.
My favorite moment of this is when the Jedi Masters are cut off from the Force. They do not die from a lightsaber blow, Force lighting or choke, but just from an absence of the Force. They relied on it for too long and when they lose it they go into shock. Their greatest strength was turned into their greatest weakness
The Force is both the greatest asset of those who understand and use it as well as their greatest weakness.
"In you, we saw a wound in the Force."
"In you, we saw the end of the Force."
"You are a cipher, forming bonds. Leaching off of the life of others. Siphoning their will and dominating them."
Nihilus: *eeeeeeehhhhaaaanuuuvaaaa* (sneezes)
Sith soldier: What?
Nihilus: *NNNaaaaaasiiiivaaaasooootttaaaavvvaaayyyyaaaa! (Somebody talking about me without wanting to.)
Sith trooper: Should we go kill them, my lord?
Nihilus: Lllloooollllniiiivaaaayooooraaaannnnaaa
(Nevermind, just a bunch of old dumbass f**ks.)
They were wrong about that as well, at least on LS playthrough, the bond with the followers was symbiotic, the exile was healing the wounds of the past from them, while they were also helping the exile heal it's wounds as well
All of them had traumatic backgrounds and even atton making horrible things, but only through the exile they were able to heal from their past, every single one of them
Canderous got abandoned by Revan, same as the droids, and don't you think that you slowly repairing the droids is just a plot device, even that is a clue to the fact that you're healing everybody,
Atton got hurt and traumatized by his experience with the Sith,
Mical and Brianna have this kind of not being traumatized but losing their paths, both were force sensitives that couldn't become Jedi because of circumstances, and you're there to heal that too, think of it like their destinies got healed
Visas:..... Obvious.... She is a lost child with no family, no place to return to, broken women sodomized by an eldritch being
Mira being able to grant Hanharr mercy and killing him and then living her last year's doing what she was supposed to do, she was a spirit made to help others, and she took pleasure on that, and the exile is the one who can take her off her life as a bounty hunter and set her into a path where she can help others.
Hanharr died LMAO, but that was his wish, and what was wrong about his life anyway.
Bao dur finally came into terms with the war by having Canderous on the party and reactivating the mass shadow generator this time to help heal the exile, in a sense healing others is also a way to heal yourself
I guess the only one I'm not sure is G0T0, I didn't really care about him except for the fat droid jokes HK made, but he was trying to heal the republic or whatever
And well if I'm gonna say anything about Kreia would take a long time, as Kreia was the one who was manipulating the exile into being healed
dude people don’t realize how on point the writing in this scene is. vrook says “what you carry could mean the death of the force, and the death of the jedi!” notice how his most important point in that statement is the end of the jedi, in front of the force. he is blinded by dogma, he would sooner protect the jedi, over the force itself.
still the best scene in fiction
*Tips fedora*
I yearn to play games as well written as this story was.
Jakub
Yeah, because when I read Romeo and Juliet, I totally felt a deep resonance when I heard that bs excuse that Fate was responsible for the death of Romeo and Juliet. Because it wasn’t their fault that they were reckless, irrational, and rash. It wasn’t their fault that they made their decisions based on emotional whims and fanciful ideas of love.
Please, don’t be so ridiculous as to take what he said literally. Obviously there are better scenes in fiction, however it does not make this “okay”. It is still great, and what a shock it was. All this time, you were fighting Sith who would consume the Force around them, and then you realize you are the same way; you are a gaping hole in the Force. The betrayal of the Jedi Masters, who you saved, helped, and brought together. They tried to strip you of your connection to the Force, and still be complacent about the rising Sith Empire. And then to learn that your master, your mentor and grandmother figure, was the Sith Lord behind all of it all along. You had to travel to Malachor, the place that made you such a wound in the Force and face her. You found Kreia, the one who guided you, cradled you back into the Force, and was forced to kill her. She told you hat she loved you, and you were forced to let her die in the depths of Malachor V. This scene is among the best writing in video game storytelling anyone could ever see. It is a wonderful story, and I’d read such a tragedy like this again, if it were literature.
She's the most reasonable bad guy
It may not be the best Science in Fiction, but it is some of the best Science Fiction ;)
This scene is so bittersweet to me. I love it, I return to it constantly, but I cry at "It is because you were, afraid" every time because deep down I know we are never going to get writing of this quality ever again.
RIP Ed Asner, the voice behind Vrook Lamar
Lamar was a dogmatic Jedi played to perfection and easily definable by BioWare and Asner himself
farewell, and be sure to send us a postcard from Paradise Falls
the enclave music is one of my favorite pieces
The theme of pain opening your eyes to reality of things is something I've rarely seen in media in general. Truly a Star Wars milk bucket worth praising.
Indeed. Visas Marr.
The writing in these two games was better than 9 movies combined
I get chills every time Kreia says, “It is because you were… afraid”
I’ve heard her say it was because you were afraid and it was because you had no choice
I usually don't use rude language but, in this scene, Chris Avellone made videogame's storytelling his bitch. He has some of the best scripts in the industry and has proven again and again that he has great talent. But this scene... Jesus Christ on a monocycle, this may be the best written scene in game history.
This
The old jedi order was soooo zealous and dealt in absolutes. Very sith like.
A cult, which got exposed in the EU and especially these games, rather than the movies
That is exactly what the Jedi Order as it is portrayed in the movies and stuff like this is all about.
And why it had to die for the New Order to rise just in time for the Great Galactic Wars and the later New Sith Wars
RIP Ed Asner. May the force be with you.
KoTOR 2 is such a unique study of extremity, duality, and consequentialism. You know what quality is when you can still form nostalgic memories about it way after childhood. Would love to see a KoTOR 3 with a story of deconstruction on technology or something. This was from a time where graphics were just as important if not less than content and boy I miss it.
I love the sad, paranoic and depressing vibe of the game. The lessons about fear and the world after destruction along with the harsh
2004 graphic and sad, depressing soundtrack with little hope and various character voices made it truly a very memorable experience.
It just occurred to me the simplicity of what's happening here when the Jedi Masters blame you for your 'force bond power'. They state it as something that happens "between a Master and apprentice", and that you can find that bond so much more easily that it is a problem. The great power that these Jedi Masters are so afraid of in you is just untempered EMPATHY.
They've trained so hard to seal away their emotions, and approach others with an understanding that relies on calculation. They see the shadows and echos of emotion, but are so far 'advanced in the Jedi way' that they no longer understand the basics of it directly. They suck at truly understanding people, and you, with your force powers and ability to empathize, frighten them. And because fear is an emotion too, instead of seeing things for what they are, you are just a danger to existence to them.
It could be pretty dang meta too, when I think about it. We see the story through the eyes of the Exile, and we control the Exile... We see every character's story as a player audience, it is the point of those stories even existing, and we don't have a lifetime of Jedi training tainting us from it, or from what we make the Exile do in response to it. The Jedi Masters are, in a way, afraid of the player's investment in the story.
That was not why they were afraid. They were afraid for she was a wound in the force, she would/could mean the end of the force, and that was frightening to them. Since unlike Kreia, they did not see the consequences of it, they did not see that the death of the force was necessary. And THAT is why they're afraid, they're afraid not because of strength or power, but because they didn't know, they couldn't understand, the death of the force was necessary.
@@edvindenbeste2587 That existed, in the details, but I'm still convinced the overall fear they had revolved around how bad they are at empathy. They refused to realize it, and fell upon the excuse of Meetra being a wound in the force to justify themselves. Meetra had to push them to care about the galaxy at all first, because they didn't, they were split doing their own casual things. Darth Nihilus was already the epitome of the threat they worried about, but she had to push them to do anything... And when they did, they focused on Meetra first, instead of understanding and prioritizing threats. That takes a severe lack of empathy to weigh things as they did.
They didn't die because Meetra's a wound in the force, they died because they lumped a potential ally in as being just as much a problem as the Sith Lord of the void hunting them. It didn't matter how 'force wound' stuff could have gone anyways, their fear of empathy got them killed first.
@@Heimdal001 The thing is, the galaxy wasn't under such a big threat from Nihilus, he didn't do anything against it, it was fought through the force. So by hiding and waiting on the threat to show itself, they didn't really "Hide when the galaxy died around them" it was they who were hiding to be able to defeat the threat. They didn't know Meetra had met Sion. They though she had just met some of the assassins, some of the crude matter sent after them.
@@edvindenbeste2587 Nihilus had drained the planet Katarr of the force, killing just about everyone, specifically because of the Jedi Conclave there. The Jedi masters knew the threat, and hid in wait for a time to strike. During that hiding time, they searched for no answers or understanding of the threat while it grew, or they thought they already understood.
Though it is true, they could never have beaten Nihilus themselves anyways... But when the time came, they chose to deal with Meetra first, because of her situation, despite it being what makes her the only solution to the Nihilus problem. They did see Meetra have the potential to doom the galaxy as well, but a total failure at empathy lead them to consider which doom they wanted for the galaxy, rather than see how one 'potential doom' could choose to be savior instead. They unwittingly almost saved Nihilus from his only threat.
@@Heimdal001 The thing is Katarr died because the Jedi gathered. The Jedi masters tried understanding the threat, but hid for the fear that more worlds would die. They did it out of empathy. They saw the threats, but the threats were stronger and more strategic. Meetra couldn't have won alone. The only reason she won was that Kreia wanted her to. Saying the masters couldn't have beaten them is a null point since the Jedi masters would have better chances of it than Meetra would, unless Kreia saw that Meetra could kill the force.
DIE? NO! BECAME STRONGAH, YES
This game is a master stroke of writing. It's a shame disney's star wars will not rise to this level. :,(
Disney have no concept of what it is to be sith
LS - Arren Kae
Neutral - Kreia
DS - Darth Traya
It’s funny how before revealing herself one of her last lines to you is that she needs to “center” herself. A play on words to keep herself Balanced between Light and Darkness.
Zez Kai El represents a man who knows that he and his teachings are flawed, but is too afraid to walk a different path. Is even afraid at the mere possibility of there being a different choice.
Kavar is like a hypocrite because he tasted the call of war and yet still turned away from the truth, still abandoned the Exile when he of all of them knew what she experienced and understood why she did what she did.
Vrook is too prideful and driven by the belief that everything the Jedi do is so right that there cannot be any fault. He views that the fall of a Jedi is not due of the Order’s failings, but because of a person’s character.
Atris is in a way like Vrook, but only because she is so blinded by the supposed betrayal of her idol that she twists the realisation that her Order is flawed into something far worse. When in actuality, she envies the choice the Exile made but will deny it until her dying breath.
It would have been interesting to see Vash’s flaws had she not been cut/killed.
"Do you wish to feel the teachings born of the Mandalorian Wars, of all wars, of all the tragedies that scream across the galaxy?! Let me show you...the galaxy...through the eyes of the Exile!"
(My personal take) Kreia does not strip the Jedi Masters of the Force. She merely shows them, - causes them - to personally experience all of the pain and suffering that the Exile suffered during the Mandalorian Wars, and specifically the events of Malachor V. And, the pain is so unimaginably traumatic that, in that moment, they do what the Exile did, which was to cut themselves off from the Force. However, as they are so completely reliant on the Force, they are unable to survive.
The Exile's connection to others, her ability to form bonds, is what made her pain so much the greater when she ordered the activation of the Mass Shadow Generator, which killed her friends and comrades, and it is THIS pain that the Masters too, experienced in their final moments.
However, reading the comments section makes me realize that other people are so much smarter than I am.
It might be a bit more nuanced than that. I think that they could, if they had the strength that Exile had to cut themselves off from the force as the Exile did but they were not willing or able to do it.
This is why I say this is when the Jedi started losing their way. They refuse to help a person in need. The Exile is really a ironic character; she and Kreia is helping me get out of my depression. They show that there are hope.
Yes, this game is about psychotrauma
Imagine playing this and the original "You were Afraid" video side by side
Oh I don't have to, I already did as I was trying to get it as close to the original as possible. I did the best I could.
Eric Graham echo effect, intriguing thought
Daniel Thompson that’s the idea. This whole game emphasizes how the Force works almost like echos or waves that transmit information to one another.
Eric Graham but to literally reverb the audio by playing two clips one ontop of the other? A brilliant thought.
Indeed, always watch this video every time i have bad times. Always, the inner voices tried to make me down every time i have bad time. And this scene, help me to remember my will, way of life.
---
You're deafened,
At last, you're heard...
You're broken
You whole...
You're blinded
At last, you saw...
---
Such knowledge lies in every words in this scene...
No, in this masterpiece lies secret knowledge of life.
I'm not regret playing this game, and i always appreciate every time i repeat this game again.
I loved this and it has to be one of the best (near) ending confrontation scenes in gaming. Plus, Sara Kestelman, that voice just *cannot* be beat!
This video is much better than starwars sequels
"How could you ever hope to know the threat you face?" UGHH kreia just serves the entirety of the jedi order so HARD
"All those who have power are afraid of losing it even the Jedi"-Palatine.
Let's hope they make a series of old republic films, Kreia would be so badass and deserves to be just as known as vader and palpatine.
Well they are, but I fear that they would ruin such good characters like Kreia and Revan. That would be such a travesty.
Would rather have it as a tv series. Either way, I don't have high hopes for it.
Sylvester Kelly honestly, a tv series would be great, too much to get into, a movie cannot do.
Ivan Why not just remaster the games?
They should give her a subplot where she gets a new hand by the time she reaches Dantooine once.
This scene makes me wanna play DS just because of these thickheaded so called "masters" who always relied on others like Revan, Malak and the Exile to solve their problems for them.
It almost feels like they are jealous that they cannot fight the Sith like the Exile can, and punishes her for it.
Well that's kinda how Atris felt.
@@PapitoQinn I think she was no better, hiding on Telos and letting Jedi die on Katarr.
They were afraid.. unable to accept they felt fear, fear leads to the dark side, they pushed that fear onto the exile..
Not accepting fear means they you will never acknowledge it and overcome it. In the end, it could be argued that they were ill-prepared to control their fear despite a lifetime of avoiding it.
I still remember this ever since playing it on the original xbox in elementary. Now my laat year of school is practically over. A lot of emotions in something so simple
Reven taught me from the frist day I saw him and master Kia as well and yoda
6:37-6:45 That's what Revan did, and he found the Sith Emperor.
He was learning. He listened very closely.
Rich Evans really needs to play Kotor 2.
He wouldn't have the mental capacity to understand it.
Who?
@@conormcguire4306 really famous guy who was on the Ellen show one time
sjtyree oh I don’t watch, in my honest opinion, fecal matter?
He was also in the classic film "never been kissed"
...... This is my favorite RPG of all time.
20 years later and I am still furious about the ignorance of the "Jedi Masters"...
I dunno why but the soundtrack of Kotor2 is giving me the chills although there is always this sense of a greater danger lying ahead.
These Jedi were a waste of air. They're better off dead for taking little to no action when the galaxy was in trouble. That and how they tried killing the Jedi exile when she wanted to rally the remaining Jedi to fight the Sith. The Sith that these same Jedi denied existed.
Great remake buddy. Good framerate and resolution, canon exile and everything!
Thank you. I went all out for this one. Be sure to check out my version of the scene "passing judgement". It's very similar, but I added some missing scenes. You can find it here: th-cam.com/video/v416Ri38O7g/w-d-xo.html
one of my favorite videos on TH-cam haha. I'm glad this inspired you. I used to only use TH-cam for music but every now and then I wanted a bit of thinking and to hear Sara Kessleman's powerful performance.
It was the scene I would turn to
I didn't understand this until I replayed Korriban in this game again earlier today, in bloody 2020, but the Jedi Masters are wrong about something important here- The Exile wouldn't nessecarily have died at Malachor if they hadn't cut themselves off from the force.
They might've just become another Scion, or another Nihilus. That's the point of the Dark Side version of this scene- in that version of the game, the exile belongs among the Sith Triumvirate, but when she gazed into the abyss, where Scion and Nihilus and Kreia and even Revan all grabbed out for power, the Exile was afraid, and cut themselves off from it.
Shit, I need to actually go back and do a Dark Side playthrough now, don't I? I haven't since I was a kid and didn't get any of this nonsense.
You're close, but the thing is. The exile would fit with Sion and Nihilus, but not Kreia and Revan. Kreia and Revan did not succumb to power, to apathy for the sake of power. Revan wanted to save the republic, ironically, by defeating it and mobilising it against the Sith lurking in the uknown regions. Kreia wanted to destroy the force. You cannot really say that Kreia and Revan succumbed to power, they used it as a tool. But if the exile did not cut themselves off from the force, and as you said, go DS. They would succumb to apathy.
I can see how this inspired you to pursue putting these kinds of videos of. Thought provoking, indeed.
Kreia is the master of gaslighting
I saw this video before I played KOTOR 2 myself, and although I found the video pleasing, I didn't fully understand the gravity of the situation until I reached that moment through my own journey. The days of exploration, growth, and character development all hinted towards this, yet without the understanding of what the exile is the weight of the scene isn't as heavy. I felt cold after this revelation, realizing that despite my efforts to restore the galaxy that I was the threat unknowingly consuming it out of habit.
This speech was epic then and still is now
One of my favorite games ❤❤
Heh. Mine too!
If Nihilus and Exile are different sides of the same coin as rumored throughout this game, why they chose different paths instinctively? Both became wounds, one that leeches on life and force of others, one that shut herself off not to do the same. If they are placed in the same situation again, will they choose the same paths again? Are they inherently good or bad, do they have free will or force, like Kreia hated, tried to balance things out again? If it was the force's doing, then Kreia was an unknowing pawn and like all sith, hate, hate of the force fuelled her. The ending of the game was rushed and controversial but, I believe Kreia knew her position as a pawn, at least instinctively. She protected, taught and pushed Exile to defeat the Nihilus, bring the balance to the force and at the end, what she wanted to hear was that she could be redeemed. Of course, all these questions and connections are rhetorical but shows how much this rabbit hole of a game can go deeper and deeper.
I think that a lot of people assume that Kreia is always right, and that everything she says throughout the game is meant to be taken as the correct opinion, but I don't think that's true. Kreia presents herself as the Exile's teacher, but we know from this scene that this whole time she was the one who wanted to learn from the Exile. Kreia isn't just a medium to push some kind of a philosophy, she's a character with her own past, and with her own flaws. In a way, she's the Exile's opposite: she was thrown out of the Jedi order, then thrown out of the Sith, and then had the Force stripped from her, while the Exile defied the Jedi, rejected the dark side, and even rejected the Force itself. It's easy to see why Kreia, who would come to hate the Jedi, the Sith, and the Force ,would see her as an ideal: someone who was capable of avoiding all the mistakes Kreia herself had made.
Kreia seems to expect to find that the Exile is similar to herself, with Kreia being stoic, rational, and prejudiced against everyone she considers beneath her, or unworthy of her respect. With lightside Exile as the most canon version she finds someone whom she considers to display acts of weakness, especially when it comes to mercy and helping others. Kreia even scoffs at the idea of the Exile having friends rather than servants.
The Exile's kindness confuses Kreia, but I think that this trait is the explaining factor behind everything that happened to her. The Exile's ability to form Force Bonds is not some kind of special talent,(like Bastila and her Battle Meditation) the Exile simply never took the Jedi Code to heart. She refused to shut herself off from forming connections to others, to feel empathy, to feel emotion, and to do what she feels is right. The Jedi teach that you have to shut yourself off from others and your own feelings. The Exile confused them with her ability to form Force bonds because she could form connections to others while remaining on the light side, which to them seemed an impossible contradiction(It’s funny to think about how the Jedi are so terrified of this Force freak who can control people’s minds and draw on their strength when she’s just a charismatic person that shows basic empathy to people around her, something alien to Jedi). This is also related to why the Exile defied the council and went to go fight in the Mandalorian Wars.
This is why Kreia says "You were afraid", almost with contempt, to the Exile. Kreia expected the Exile to be a Messiah, and a stoic sage capable of acting rationally in the most desperate of circumstances. But the reason the Exile survived wasn't through strength per se, but because of vulnerability. While other Jedi would either break and turn to the dark side, or break and die from the shock during Malachor 5, the Exile was still open to her own emotions. We're told that her decision to cut herself off from the Force was almost subconscious, and that is because it was because of fear, and fear is something that neither the Sith nor Jedi consider to be strength, because fear weakens their connection to the Force. This is hinted at by conversations with Atton and HK-47, who both talk about techniques that weaken both Jedi and Sith by using guilt, lust, and fear. Her connection to her fellow Jedi created a massive echo, and her own fear of the pain that was to come deafened her to the Force.
In a lot of ways Kreia was right about the Exile: she confronted her emotions rather than hide from them, and she followed her own moral compass rather than those imposed on her, and she was truly capable of rejecting the Force instead of letting it corrupt her. But I think part of the reason why Kreia turns so violent near the end is because, on a personal level, she sees the Exile as soft and has a hard time believing that her vulnerability is a source of such personal strength. She has to test if the Exile is truly as strong as she initially believed.
I really wish we could create a character like the Exile in Star Wars somewhere again. Specifically, a Force user that is not special in any silly way like being part of this or that bloodline, but someone who is special because of who they are as a person. The Exile, and KOTOR 2, really dug into exactly how toxic both the Jedi and the Sith are, and how important our connections to others are, and how both the Jedi and the Sith work to destroy them.
What an amazing analysis. I had always thought of Kreia not being completely correct but could never really explain why
I don't actually think Kreia's being contemptuous at the end of this clip, I think her pointing towards the Exile's fear is a compliment because the Exile's instinctual capacity to persevere, to maintain her sense of self, was stronger than her spiritual connection to the force. None of the Jedi masters, not even Kreia, have the force of will to so cleanly sever their ties to the force, she says as much. Even on a purely instinctual level, the Exile is more of a *person* than any other force user we meet because she simply doesn't *need* the Force. I think Kreia's contempt near the end of the game is in itself another test for the Exile, not because she views the Exile as soft, but because she wishes to force the Exile to self-actualize into her new self. Kreia wishes to deny the exile ANY chance to settle into her old patterns, to return to the life of a proper Jedi, and so she forces the Exile's hand in slaying her, even if the Exile does so with only compassion in their heart. Kreia's hate for the exile is a new test of the Exile's strength, not because she views the Exile as soft, or weak, but because she now sees the Exile as one sees a butterfly about to burst from its shell, an entirely new creature. She just needs to push you one last time so that you finally bloom.
Been playing this game since before I have cohesive memories. I only just now, some 15 years later, realized how much playing dark side effects dialogue.
The Force is my religion. And this a sacred scene.
Kreaia knew I was in no position to go fight inn the mandalorian wars was my choice but the Jedi didn’t understand what was really going on I love you Kreaia but you know I was right in a lot of ways my teacher we cradle one another forever we will have this bond, I’m no longer reven but I still will be so much more but thank you Kreaia for being my teacher I will always love you your student Papatia Quinn forever
I come here when I lose hope and want to give up on the new KOTOR remake.
This game with this scene proves one point, not learning from what you have done dooms you to make the same mistakes.
Like the jedi they refused to learn and see that they were leading their students astray, that it was their teaching that led their student to fall, while the exile learned from the events that transpired in her past , the bad choices , all the death that she caused and followed her only to give up the force in order to understand and move on with her life.
Even if she rediscovered this power later she understood one thing, the force is life and the journey you share with those close to you is the most important. While her dogmatic counterparts believed that self isolation and teaching other to do the same only to serve but not live is the only thing that the force wants, never understanding the force as they should have.
Wish we had KOTOR 3 and more background on the life of these characters.
Imagine if Kreia had been there to train Anakin.
I cant lie, I still play this on Xbox One.
Me 2
I’m playing 1 right now, im going onto this one next!
no problem with that
Vrook: NO NO! YOU ARE SITH!!!
This was too deep for my 11 year old self to appreciate.
I was 15 when i played this... And can't understand the deeper meanings... But i'm 30 now and starting to understand few things but i feel that i'm not even scratching the surface...
Vrook’s dialogue is so powerful 2:35
Anyone notice. When she steps in for the male exile, kreia is enraged. But for the female. Her voice just goes ice cold ...
It's theorized Kreia used to be Arren Kae. It's possible she sees in the Exile a second chance at motherhood, while also furthering her agenda. That's why her voice is like ice.
@@JabamiLain theory is all but confirmed at this point. But yeah, I like your thinking.
Absolutely brilliant scene, brilliant game
The jedi masters are way to blind here
I would actually say they are not, they were wrong. But you cannot really expect them to see what Kreia saw, or rather, see it the same way. The council saw danger in the exile, Kreia saw hope in her, for the same reason. The end if the force.
@@edvindenbeste2587 exile is the only one who can defeat nihilus yes they are blind they accused exile as sithlord
@@fauzanabdulkahfi957 they didn't accuse the exile of being a sith lord, the only one who had even accused her of straying from the light was Atris, and she was herself only a Jedi in name. They saw that she was a threat to the force, that she could not feel the force and that she was a wound in it. Of course, the force can be argued deserved to die, but that's for another time
5:47 me when Kotor III was cancelled
"In order to kill a jedi, you must be human"
8:48 So it would seem you have chosen...death.
kreia was right, maybe those on top need to see the galaxy through our eyes as exiles
2:57 so the death of the force * what makes them special * is worse than the teachings of the sith...hmmm I wonder if sith would feel the same way about jedi
Vortex she is a wound in the Force, much worse than any normal Sith.
@@MelodyofCelts The problem is that it's not worse, if she would have killed the force. Then the galaxy would be a better place.
I think this scene is better as a male exile because for some reason kreia seems like she cares a lot more about what’s going on through her voice than female exile
@disney I would pay millions for this type of Star Wars sequel
Oh they will take your millions and still not give you what you want... They will only give you what they think they want... Really disney is far more evil than the sith...
The masters died when cut off from the force because they relied on it.
It’s a shame I couldn’t get this scene. I sided with General Vaklu because I didn’t think it mattered as long as I got to speak with Kavar. Sadly, he left me with no choice but to kill him, thus resulting in the game thinking my mission was to eliminate the Jedi despite already sparing the other two. I was light side too!
Well hey, that's why I'm here. But don't feel too bad. They had to go in one way or another regardless.
Just food for thought, maybe you could post the seld-trodden paths of a dark side character who spared the masters, and a light side character who killed them? The dialogue is apparently different in such situations.
Yes, from what I understand they are different. Rest assured that I am working on it.
th-cam.com/video/8VvS5MLnG0Y/w-d-xo.html
it's here and it is no less brilliant. :-)
@@PapitoQinn Is it possible to spare only certain masters?
@@elitehonor117 When you meet them one by one, yes. But if you kill one you'll always have to kill the rest at the enclave.
3:07 bringing rpg logic into the story
My masters all fell to the dark side....
I need a remake/remaster of both KOTOR or a sequel or both
Look up KOTOR Aperion, its an offical remake of the original Kotor game being completely overseen by Disney, their twitter uploads new images and updates on it all the time.
someone modded KOTOR II to unlock content that was cut from the final game, content that is critical for the plot to make sense no less
So much false info in once sentence. It's not an official remake nor is it overseen by Disney. It's a fan project and Disney hasn't commented on it yet and so far it's looking very promising.
@@Stripes__ so much for this, it got shutdown =[
this is not as powerful revelation as player revealed to be Darth Revan in KOTOR 1, but still this moment gives me chills in my bones, and some goose bumps..
1:59
I will never get this cutscene. I don't keep Vrook or Kavar alive, as I want the galaxy to see they can make it without the Order. It's a shame.
But perhaps Atris and her servants can be made to see the truth...I wished there was an option for her to be cut off from the Force as well...
woo yay!
Please excuse my ignorance, but what was it that the Exile was "afraid" of? Was the fear of death, the pain of death, or was she afraid of the moment before death when you don't know what'll happen next and your desperately clutching at life?
As I Understand it. None. She was not afraid of her own death, but of the death around her.
@@xo4260 Okay
Xo is close when saying the death around her. She is afraid of feeling the death around her at Malachor V and moving past it. Think of the death of a loved one or the pain of loss KOTOR2 is really about healing the trauma that comes after. For a more direct comparison the exile and force relationship is akin nuances to trauma and mental health. Basically she is afraid of pain and loss in a real life sense. KOTOR2 is obviously after that using the present to show the healing using Kreia as a narrator of sorts to view the healing process of trauma. One other key point is the idea of Jedi in practice versus lore reality. The ideas of the Jedi and emotion being evil is that emotion should not guide your decisions as anger and hate will never lead to a good outcome, and fear should be overcome not acted upon because if you do not face the fear then it will lead to animosity that controls your life and very easily leads to anger. The trauma comes into play when looking at the grieving process and how those emotions are easy to act on such as fear of loss, or anger.
@@St0ne69 Thanks a lot. I think your explanation also explains to me what Revan wanted the Jedi Counsel to see when Meetra returned to them. HK mentions that Malek wanted her killed for not joining them, but Revan belayed the order. If what you say is true, then the Exile truly does prove the hypocrisy in the Jedi's teaching of detachment
Today it was announced that the Game of Thrones showrunners are going to make ‘a series of films’ in the Star Wars universe. “Focusing on a certain point in time” many have speculated that these films will be based on the Kotor games. Given how the showrunners used the ASOIAF books and adapted them to television. I, for one, hope that Disney/Lucasfilm don’t try to adapt these games to film. I do not believe they will do the themes, characters, and conflicts any justice.
In film? It would be pretty difficult to adapt properly. In television? That'd be more reasonable. But hey, worst case scenario they fail and we ignore their existence.
@MemesAreDreams only because GOT split from the source material in season 5, after that the whole thing goes downhill pretty quick, this was partly because the books were not finished yet. This wouldn't be a problem for KOTOR as it is already completely written, it should, in theory, be a simple matter of adapting it and not having to write the stories and the ending themselves.
YES! :D
Can you please make the “No choice” version? I’d like to see it.
th-cam.com/video/2YqLvHxhFrg/w-d-xo.html
@@PapitoQinn I meant with your music. I also meant a remake.
@@ABFan-bj2uj That's the only difference in the dark side version though. To make the entire thing over for that one line is kinda heavy.
@@PapitoQinn I also meant with the response “Killing… your answer to everything.” and “The first one who touches me dies!”
Well It’s their own fault. They were arrogant and blind. But why did Kreia kill the council?
I don't think Kreia killed them exactly.
Papito Qinn Do you even know what would happen if Kreia and Darth Traya were two different people?
@@ABFan-bj2uj Well from a more abstract viewpoint, they might as well be. But that's not what I mean. I explain in this video I made: th-cam.com/video/RPU0HdOnOKQ/w-d-xo.html
Could of swore there was another line Kreia instead says "Because you Had no Choice" instead of "Because you were afraid". Almost positive it was because I was either Darkside or Neutral Darksided, (Did bad things but choose not to kill the Jedi and we still meet on Dantooine).
You're right, it does happen.
I like the original more
I appreciate that KOTOR 2 acknowledge that the death of an entire planet is super traumatizing, especially for people who are literally connected to the universe and life.
In the new movies an entire STAR SYSTEM was destroyed and not a single force user(or any other person who might have had family or friends in that sector) reacts in any way. Its the equivalent of couple nukes dropping in a populated city and nobody gives a shit.
In a new hope they at least have Obi Wan and Lea react, even though Lea gets over her home getting vaporized pretty fast.
Since the Star Wars money machine has no sign of slowing down, I am really hoping somebody does something with the post-war-PTSD concept
What if the force is just a person who became more, able to control and effect all ripples..
>not a bearded exile
Thumbdown, report, swat team on the way.
Meetra and a beard 👎
Never mistake death for stasis
Or #visversa
5:45 lmao
Hey Kathleen Kennedy! I found your source material right here!