Roof wind damage insurance claim denied - Should this qualify?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Roof wind damage. This homeowner's insurance denied their claim for wind damage. Does this seem like enough wind damage to justify an insurance claim? Unfortunately TH-cam just removed the poll feature, so comment below.
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Here is my opinion as an insurance adjuster. At first glance the damage doesn’t look that bad. However a good adjuster should do exactly as you did, a THOROUGH inspection. A thorough inspection would reveal the true state of this roof and the adjuster should have no problem buying the roof.
You stated the the customer said they had an adjuster out and the keep denying their claim. This leads to some questions. How many prior claims on the roof are there? How many times were they out before? What did they find then? What is new damage? Who repaired the prior damage? Etc. The answers to these questions may determine what is and is not covered. Each claim covers a single event, so if the damage occurred over multiple events, then the carrier my not cover the entire roof.
Most people that do not work in the insurance industry do not take the time to fully understand the policy they bought. So when some people have their claim denied, they always cry the big bad insurance company is stealing my money. While in some cases this may be true, the majority of denials are correct according to the policy provisions.
In the end, I think you are going about the the correct and HONEST way by pointing out factual evidence that no one can disagree on. Keep doing what you’re doing, you are one of the few honest ones out there. 😎
Thank you I really appreciate that and the time to leave a comment with your experience!
Very helpful. From both of you. Thank you for post and reply.
Nice explanation Jason. There is one thing I would like to add. With a major wind event, such as the one described in the video, an insurance company may consider the storm a catastrophe. Put simply, lots of people were effected. I’m my region (Inland Northwest) we have about 2-3 of these a year that effect different areas in the region and my company does not have enough adjusters to spend that much time on every roof. Unfortunately that means it is often based on a review from the ground and the debris in the yard.
Worn seals isn't wind damage, and you lifting tabs manipulating them like crazy shows your inexperience no wonder Allstate told you to suck the sack. That roof is a simple repair all day long. "East slope i dont see any missing tabs but let me manipulate all these rakes and this slope to simulate wind🤣" haha good luck.
Gently lifting to see if it is sealed or not is not manipulating the shingles. When the shingle has lifted and pulled the granules up with the seal strip the seal strip is not worn out. It pulled the granules off the mat. The shingles were blown loose and pulled the nails through the mat. Just about every house in that neighborhood got a new roof due to wind damage. You must work for Allstate.
Once a shingle loses its thermal seal I think it’s compromised and will continue to be a problem . I agree about Allstate your definitely not in good hands
The CEO of allstate went to state farm and the CEO of statefarm went to allstate. Allstate is way better this year. And statefarm kinda sucks now lol
Wow, insurance is a scam? Shocking
Scamfarm and Allstate suck.
I have All State and will be switching after all of theses videos of schiesty adjusters!
@@808hanky no statefarm sucks that's why you see all these videos of statefarm adjusters no buying anything
Man, how in the world did you move around that like a mountain goat? I had to close my eyes.... lol
He was giving me a mad case of vertigo!!
Haha. Me too
Been roofing40 yrs find very few roofers that have my knowledge and understanding you pass my test
Just spent a nice penny to have my roof stripped of 3 tab and upgraded. But man was it worth it! Huge difference!
Should be covered, three slopes look like they need replaced, substantial damage because you have whole sections where the wind got up and under the shingles and started lifting whole sections, probably a lot of wind.
Goal of insurance is to make you whole.
So, here's the real question, would a roof have this type of damage if it were just sitting there? Without wind and weather? Nope, damage to this rood is obviously caused by weather and substantial weather.
We will see what you say when someone slaps a quick roof on your house one day and it starts coming apart early... if they installed it correctly the first time, they would be fine.
I like buying insurance that never pays for damage covered by the insurance because in some arbitrary way, they always find a reason it's not covered. It would be like policy holders not paying for insurance since the insurance doesn't ever pay for the damage.
I'd suggest that insurance companies certify installers, and if said installers were certified when the roof was installed, that accusation could be removed from the equation. Insurance should certify materials as well. Use of this product or that product that met the requirements extant when the roof was installed should stop adjusters from saying a roof was constructed with inferior techniques or materials, yet, if that was the case, the kickback industry would suffer.
I bought a home, an Electrician provided an estimate for grounding receptacles, and when I moved in, he refused to reply to my calls to have the work done according to the estimate. Just absolutely refused to reply. What was in it for him? Likely the Realtor floated him work elsewhere, because I wouldn't have bought the house otherwise.
I've been an adjuster for years. Wanted to point out a few things. First, I doubt they got denied on those previous claims. They probably had covered wind damages in the past but they didn't get above the deductible. Happens all the time where a customer said, "Y'all denied my claim last time". I look in the old claim . . . . Nope. You just didn't have enough damage to get above deductible. And them filing all those previous claims that were under deductible will hurt them. Insurance covers one time incidents. It doesn't cover cumulative damage. If I have photos of damage from before, on a different storm, I can't use that in consideration of total loss for this one. So they file a claim here, file a claim there, and there is now documentation showing not all this wind is from one storm. I see it on 3 tab mostly. People see missing shingles, then file a claim. Better to have a competent roofer look at it and see if it's worth filing first. Also, different states have different rules. In some states the whole brittle test or reparability doesn't matter. Direct physical damage is the only thing that counts. Honestly I avoid wind damage and go straight for hail. In my area it's really common and soooo much easier to pay for a roof that way.
Also, if you're going to do insurance work make sure you sit down with a licensed adjuster and pick their brain. What are the standards in the area? How they do their estimates? Another very important thing to discuss is the law in regards to what you can and can't discuss. In my area contractors CANNOT discuss policy and what that policy covers. They can talk about things like "I have to install Ice and water on the perimeter to meet code" but can't try and argue "Well the customer's policy says they get overhead and profit". So they get shut down immediately if the words "You owe . . . " is mentioned to an adjuster. It can be a fine line sometimes.
Thanks!
100% always call out a qualified insurance restoration specified roofing contractor with good reviews to take a look at the roof before filing a claim. There’s many reasons why this is one of the best first steps in the claims process before filing a claim, if the damage is not likely to warrant a payout higher than the deductible and the existing shingles are of the quality to be repaired ( in my area brittleness is taken into consideration) the contractor can write up an out of pocket quote for the work and the policy holder and carrier won’t have to waste their time on an adjustment that won’t warrant a payout, the policy holder can learn some valuable information from the restoration contractor who should have experience with claims, such as the need to list multiple types of damage if they have occurred to the property to ensure the claim can be covered under one deductible, and if the damage to the property warrants a claim the restoration contractor can represent the policyholder so that they have an advocate not only from the carrier but also from the contractor to meet at the adjustment and assist through the supplement to give the policy holder the best chance of getting minimum state required code items covered upon initial inspection or during supplementation if needed, ensure that all damages are inspected during the adjustment ( some adjusters are more thorough than others ), educate the homeowner on what is and is not being covered in the line items on the estimate from the carrier and how the project will be funded explaining what the hell acv rcv depreciation O&P and all that other shit means. Calling out a qualified restoration contractor to inspect and give a recommendation based off their experience representing policy holders in claims from start to finish will save time and money for the carrier and most importantly the homeowner.
^ great post/advice👍
Excellent comment.
sounds like an insurance scam rather than an issue with the customers tbh
I was first a roofer (about 700 roofs), then an adjuster (9years) and now a contractor (8 years). First of all, you said that 3 tab shingles inherently have poor tar strips. That is a fact on older shingles. That being said if the shingles are not adhering as designed then a 30 mile an hour wind can flop the shingles repeatedly and cause creases as you pointed out. Secondly, no legitimate roofer should face nail any shingle. As you know, when you first install a shingle roof it takes time for the shingles to seal to one another. The sun needs to heat the roof to complete the seal. When I would repair a roof, I always added a little wet tar to expedite the seal process as it is usually weather dependent to get a proper seal. The roofer who face nailed the shingles voided any warranty. Most roofers do not follow through and help the homeowner get a warranty certificate from the manufacturer or advise the homeowners to keep their invoices to prove when the roof was bought and installed. If I were the roofer on this inspection, I would have first raised a warranty issue due to the shingles not holding a seal that obviously can lead to creases and subsequent shingle loss to even slight winds. Most roofers don't want to do that because it can be a fight with the manufacturer. So, what do they do? They claim wind damage and push insurance companies to pay for questionable claims. Its sad that most insurance companies do actually pay for claims that are not clear cut and that manufacturers get away with defective products. To prove my point, how many roofers do you know that have pursued a warranty claim and succeeded?
Although I'm sure you are probably right. Homeowners and roofers prefer making a roof claim because making a warranty claim means even if you get the warranty granted. It still doesn't pay the roofer because labor doesn't get reimbursed just the product. Which means the roofer will have to bill the homeowner and most homeowners would rather not pay so they take the insurance route.
I was a roofer for about 20 all kind the face nailing of a shingle will make warranty absolute the home owner bares responsibility
Here is what happens when you add extra sealant: th-cam.com/video/0ZdKL9Z2BIw/w-d-xo.html
When a roof has damage you'll need to completely replace it since you can no longer separate the shingles as designed.
@@jwonz2054 that was a very old roof and very brittle. The bonding agent did its job, but the aged roof needs to be replaced now.
@$tickBoy you don’t have a clue. I’ve been doing it all my life. Not forcing a seal. Resealing the tab with a light layer is all it takes.
I’m more impressed how you walk around that roof with ease. Damn
I was researching the haag certification and they say that wind is missing or creased shingles while others think that lifted shingles are enough .. Once we settle that argument I think we'll have the answer .....
Loose tabs can be seald down and the few missing tabs that shingle can be replaced easily. If you pay someone to do it it would probably be about the same as your deductable on a claim plus increased rates that would happen.
seriously. people don't realize that you're likely to be dropped entirely for putting a claim as large as asking for a new roof, nevermind at minimum having hugely increased insurance rates if they keep you.
@@aaromon43 To be completely honest, there’s a lot of states that have laws against this for storm damage and even if it happens, switching carriers can usually mitigate nearly all the rise in premium. Insuring a new roof is a boon for an insurance company and a great time to offer discounted rates to steal a customer.
I worked as a storm damage adjuster for over 20 years and based on what you showed us...i would opine that since this particular windstorm came from the west and you found very similar "damage" to the east slope as well... most of the damage is from bad installation as well as maybe some manufacturing defect on the shingles. You have nails popping out but the shingles are in place...if the winds caused the nails to pop out that would be extremely strong winds and would have blown off some tabs especially on the east side. Winds come from one direction...unless it is a tornado. This was a bad roofing job, many nails not hammered in completely. 3 tabs are poor quality and many times the tar under the strips is not enough. I did see some wind blown tabs on the west slope which would qualify as wind damage. But we don't get the claim history of the insured as to how many times they have made this claim. Pretty sure those claims may have photos exactly of what you are seeing now. Maybe some of these wind blown tabs were documented in the prior claims and so were not considered on this claim. An adjuster needs to review past claims and photos to see what is new damage. If claim was denied, then apparently they did see the same shingles damaged before. I believe the biggest problem on this roof are defective shingles and sloppy installation. One thing about the nails protruding from the surface, if a roofer leaves even just a slight bit of the head exposed, the weather with hot and cold will cause the plywood to expand and contract and slowly squeeze the nail up even more. Thus making matters worse. Insured will have to wait for a hail storm or major windstorm to completely blow off the tabs before an insurance company will cover the damage. Sad but true.
Most insurance companies require the roof to be inspected before they agree to coverage. To me it just sounds like they have a shitty insurance company.
I had a storm completely blow my tabs off and they still try to not cover it. Insurance is a scam and adjusters are con artists that should see jail time. Hopefully we get some legal reform in the future going to try the state govt complaint and lawsuit route now.
So tired of hearing that it is bad installation. Cop out from adjusters that work for insurance companies. This is clearly wind damage!
It's irrelevant if it's bad installation or manufacturer defect. The carrier extended coverage on the roof when they wrote the policy and collected the premium. The claimed cause of loss is WIND damage, not bad installation.
You’re exactly right, the roof is compromised and not because of improper installation.
A good insurance company threshold is 20% wind damage on a slope, three slopes, damaged for total replacement
This roof is trashed. insurance company is indemnified, if they refuse to pay, they are acting in bad faith, and opening themselves up to litigation.
I've been required to only count shingles if the shingle is torn around the nail. The theory is the nail was over driven and never really was attaching it, when it's a deep nail and the hole is perfectly round.
I will bet that the installers put the shingles on in the winter. With that said all new home buyers should beware of any cold weather installation with no sun for 3days after install.
im terrified of heights.. the way u walk around this roof has me sweating hard lmfao
I’m an IA and currently an estimator for roofing company . We receive a bunch of our assignments from insurances carriers. That would be a new roof for sure .
Do you get paid salary or based off what you write/damages?
You need 50% of slope missing to qualify for replacement. If you can freely lift them up they are repairable .usually for 3 tab roof they need to be broken or heavily creased. Different policies different rules.
I would like to know how old the roof is. In my experience if it’s a 25 year shingle and your 12 to 15 years in then the seal is drying and more prone to blow off. If that is the case then I say get a new roof at home owners expense. People that leave their roof till the end of its life then call insurance are hurting us all for our premiums. This roof is showing no exposed felt and loss of granular so I don’t know. Back in the day I used BP shingles then IKO. You were getting 80 to 90 percent out of them. Then after awhile I was seeing IKO shingles lasting 50 to 60 percent. I don’t know if it’s a quality issue or stronger sun or a combination of both. In Canada there is a shingle called landmark and even the 3 tab seal like crazy. They say advanced sealing technology. Let me tell you it’s true. I once went to do a repair on a 3 tab landmark shingle in October so nice and cool and do you think I could break the seal with a pry bar. No way. I was hammering a putty knife along the seal. It took me like 2 hours to change one shingle. I don’t know if you can get landmark shingles in the states but they are awesome and backed by a better prorated warrenty than IKO.
Well said. You can hear how brittle the seal strips are in the video. This roof has probably had flapping shingles for years. How anyone could push for a full replacement due to a single event in this example is beyond me.
Makes me nervous watching some get close too the edge of the roof lol
same here. He's fearless
Insurance will take your money all day but when you need something it's a fucking battle. Incredible.
I think the last bit you mentioned of insurance fraud is what is making it harder now for full replacements.
As a roof adjuster I do not care about other roofs I didn’t look at. Having seen roofs ripped off I can say that the nails stay in the wood and the shingles get ripped off. Yes some nails may come out but not many. Nails coming loose is nail pop. This can be caused by a few things but wind is not one of them. I have seen the nail holding the plywood come all the way out through the shingle. Did the wind pick up the plywood and only pull one nail loose? I go from major wind events straight to another all over the country. I love it when I am standing on a 10/12 and the contractor crab crawls up the roof and thinks he knows more about roofs. I really enjoy a contractor that points out all damage and knows what wind damage is and is not. I can work with that. Without seeing the roof in person it is hard to say what I would do. First measure the shingle. It may not even be made anymore. Then check to see if the manufacturer still makes that shingle. Why should an adjuster do your job too. Know that before the adjuster shows up. That way I can make a decision, I might make a phone call, then I can have a check in the homeowner’s hand before I leave. I can say that denying a claim is more paperwork than paying. Also realize that insurance is a contract and adjusters are bound by it and the laws. We also work very long hours and some of us don’t get to go home at night to see our loved ones. So be nice and honest because it goes a long way. But I had a guy cussing at me. He still got a new roof. Because I am a professional and will always do my best for the policy holder that I can. The contractor is the one that gets the money in the end. So it is funny to me when they act like the adjuster is the bad guy. I just smile and stay nice. See you on a roof sometime.
Those shingles appear to be 20 years old. As shingles age they will have issues and at some point repairs aren't possible. Because a roof is not repairable due to the age of the shingles doesn't entitle the homeowner to an entire new roof.
I love watching these videos but as someone who hates heights it literally scares the shit out of my watching you walk that freely on the roof lol
My opinion, Id report as minor wind damage to the creased and missing shingle tabs at isolated locations. Old roof, age-related wear mostly, pre-disposed to wind damage so wind damage really isn't bad, any real storm would rip that roof covering to shreds. I would think there is some depreciation on any coverage but I'm not on the insurance side. No hail damage to roof that I saw; however, it's a business obviously the roof has been hit by hail so at that point it's a game and it depends on who your client is on what you say and how you say it. Not fraud to say hit by hail. There are some gray areas in research and studies as far as functional damage or decrease in service life so you can use that to your advantage on negotiating. just my $0.02
I'll add if the age of the roof is newer and there is a noted major storm event in area to coincide, and I can find any signs of creasing where shingles are loose...then I would go conservative and say loose shingles due to wind and call wind damage to large percentage of roof more than likely. If its an older roof where 3 tab shingles are generally loose...then I expect wind damage to be more clearly evident. Also the nails condition is important to note on exposure to environmental elements and/or corrosion to show how long the tabs have been loose...to also coincide with storm event.
Consider front running the insurance company and hire an engineer on the contractor/homeowner side.
A house that nice and expensive and you go with 3 tab. Probably original though put on by the cheap skate builders that built all them houses. Btw I’m a little scared of heights so this video had me moving all over the place. Stay safe. Really enjoy the videos
Thank you!
3 tabs are just as good
3 tabs are garbage......rated for like 50-60 mph winds.....
We had some hellish winds come through where I live not long ago.
5 -6 houses on my same street all in a row got hit and all 3 tabs. Rhe 3 dimensional/architectural shingled houses had no problem.
They are rated up to like 130 mph.
But luckily most of us having no problem with our insurance companies.
I was first to start claim and I made sure the inspector noted the other houses in his report.
I did make a crucial error of letting him do inspection without my contractor here so that has slowed me down but insurance company is doing right thing now.
Best advice I can give is to definitely have your contractor present and make sure they don't miss anything on first inspection cause it can be difficult to get a 2nd inspection.
I'm going back with architectural shingles. I have an excellent roofing company that is going to do. Also going to give up to $ 500 in referrals since I talked my neighbors into letting them do theirs/file claim for them.
Most didn't think wind damage could be covered.
Most policies I know of they are.
But we also had hail damage so nobody having problems so far.
This is great content!! I live in GA and it’s unbelievable how many companies eat deductibles. So glad that you mentioned that at the end of the video because most of those companies aren’t around anymore than a few years
Live in Texas and they passed the deductible law in 2019. Plenty of large established companies ,
20-30y+ still waiving deductible and doctoring paperwork. But I found that by collecting the deductible, I'm working half as much and making the same of more. Less work more $.
Technically, you always default to the HAAG manual (rarely happens). This one would depend on the application process according to the manufacturers specifications (ie. high nailing and amount of nails 5-6)... It also basically depends on the adjuster, quite honestly.
I would agree. Especially being three tab, which depends so much on proper fastening and installation. One could also call into question the age of the shingles. Those could easily be between 15-25 years old. Never three tab. Maybe on a shed or playhouse.
@@daveo211 Not even. No point using something that fails so easily when infinitely better products are available for just a couple dollars more a bundle
Finally wise words.
Interlocking metal shingles are looking like a good choice for my home build after watching this.
It goes without saying if you live by an open field and have a 2nd story home do not use 3tab shingles. Check to see if the nail gun pressure was set to high and if they aren't nailing to high
My opinion as an insurance adjuster who does do thorough inspections. The brittle test would indicate that those shingles are non-repairable (even though they can be repaired by any good roofer). When I do my inspections I mark each shingle that has lost adhesion (takes quite a bit of time) and will mark all shingles where wind caused nails to pull through on the windward edge of the shingles. Because the carriers (insurance companies) have started determining replace v.s. repair based on what saves them money on most claims it is important to have overwhelming numbers of damaged shingles on each slope. Some companies are requiring adjusters to only count shingles that are missing or torn that can be photographed without manipulation. This is an unfair practice in my opinion and if I was the homeowner I would be switching companies or calling a public adjuster if the roof was inspected this way. The weird thing is on the carriers that do this idiotic practice quite often the desk adjuster will overturn the findings and replace the whole roof after the field adjuster puts a good description in his notes. So if you meet with the adjuster and he tells you that he is required to include only obviously damaged shingles ask him to discuss the other damage you both saw together in his narrative notes.
Be patient with the field adjusters, a lot of them are trying to total the roof but are held up by the guidelines.
I’ve been an insurance restoration contractor (sales side) for a year now and I don’t understand why so many adjusters want to buy roofs. I mean it makes perfect sense for IAs but even a lot of staff adjusters are super cool about it. Is it just because it’s cool to help some one out like that?
After the 1997 Mayfest hail storm in Ft, Worth, Texas we filed a claim, an insurance adjuster came to the property to look at our roofs and said the roof needs to be replaced. However, because there were so many claims the insurance company hired a third-party adjuster to lesson claims so a couple weeks later the first adjuster comes back with the third-party adjuster and the second adjuster attempted to deny my claim and told me my roofs looked "10 years old and is repairable," to which I replied " it's 1 month old " we literally just replaced the roofs just weeks earlier and proved documentation and proceeded to show him the softball size hail stones I collected from that storm and stored in the freezer. That was the clincher but I took it a step further to assure our claim would not be denied so I genitally reminded him of the multi-million dollar accounts we had with them for several rental properties spanning across the south and southwest regions of the united states from Texas to California. Long story short, they paid our claim but not before twisting their arm first. My advice when dealing with insurance adjusters is to document everything to support your insurance claim, get on the roof with the adjuster so they understand the full scope of damage. Know your property and understand your insurance policy, otherwise they will take advantage of your absence and ignorance.
Loss of adhesive or (lifted) is not considered wind damaged by any insurance company. A partial replacement is actually pretty generous. You even said you could repair it.
Adjuster here. Those fractures are not wind creases but thermal cracks. Wind will not crease only a few inches in the middle of a shingle. Whoever installed those shingles sucked, their exposure is random. Laminated tabs do not seal better than 3-tabs, really has nothing to do with it, but cheap/junk shingles do not seal well and a roof installed in cold weather wont seal well and is prone to damage if a wind event occurs before hot weather. Lastly, you cannot take multiple wind events and add them together to make one good 'worthy' claim. HOWEVER, I would have wrote this roof due to the volume of lifted areas that pulled the nails out of the decking or through the shingles in combination with the missing tabs. Chances are you had some wet behind the ears gimp of an adjuster that was afraid to get on that roof and they judged it from the ground. As for gaining knowledge on damage, I suggest you get HAAG certified and keep your CE's up.
How can you determine where the wind will or will not crease a shingle they will bend and crease at the weakest point at that will differ with every shingle your not an adjuster your a denier
Great video, I'm just now getting into roofing and this was an excellent and informative video
Last year we had a storm in our area with similar wind gusts (70 mph). My roof was damaged in a very similar way to what you are showing here. At the time my roof which had 3 tab shingles was 19 years old. The insurance adjuster approved a complete re-roof of my house.
Interesting, the wind test ASTM D 3161 says the shingle tabs can come loose and the shingles flap as long as they don't break or crack its a pass. BUT, if you have loose or lifting tabs its an underwriting concern and can affect your ability to qualify for coverage. Also in the test standard is a requirement for the roof decking to be a minimum of 15/32" plywood or wood plank decking or any other system that will will not vibrate during the testing. Yet shingles are being applied over 7/16" OSB every day.
I'm just trying to not die here by falling off the roof.
Awesome work guy! You are just calling it like it is. Either it’s damaged or it isn’t. The truth is in the video. I would hire you on a drop of a dime, no question. Integrity and honesty, that should be your name.
Why are shingles designed to easily damage? Seems like any upward force would crease the shingle.
Hey can you do more videos on hail/wind damage and insurance claims? Just recently, a roofer said I might be able to qualify for hail damage and showed me a few spots on the roof. Just trying to learn more and decide if I should go that route and file a claim. We decided to look at at our roof/chimney due to evidence of water damage/leak on an interior ceiling. We know something is wrong, but where the water is coming from or what exactly we need to fix has been confusing. Different ppl come out n say different things. I've heard my roof is good, i've also heard my roof is bad and needs to be replaced. Also heard just sections need to be fixed. Just recently heard that I can try to make a hail damage claim lol. Got sorta hopeful when heard that I might be able to get a whole new roof thru an insurance claim for hail damage.
One thing we think we do have to fix, is our chimney. Seems like it needs some work around the flashing and also the top section of the chimney, the bricks and mortar are not doing so well. So perhaps some tuckpointing or rebuilding of that section and flashing work. What exactly, if anything, we need to fix on our roof remains a mystery.
Btw, the videos are great, very helpful for learning. Especially cause we need some work done.
I can't speak to the insurance but I bought a house with a known end of life roof. It failed. I paid out of pocket to have it replaced. The age of roof makes a difference. If you know the roof is old then you should be planning for replacement.
The new roofing stuffs from 20 years ago - today really sucks.
I purchased an older home with lousy looks shingles.
Looks like a little lumpy in some spots and a some edge curls.
Every contractors doing some work for me other than the roof told me watch out for that roof.
You know I don't have much money left after the purchase of the house, but it doesn't leak.
Years goes by contractors doing other carpentry works for me kept reminding me of the same old thing.
You know it's a very old roof.
But dam it's not leaking.
Anyway, it lasted until the mortgage was paid for several years laters then it started to leak.
That's over 20+ years later after who knows who done it decades ago.
But those old roofing shingles are really tough in comparison to the new ones.
The new ones leaks from the gakko in only 2 years .
Onwards to more leaks in later life.
Wind blown out some shingles too.
And landmark shingles are made by Certainteed. I got mine from Spar Roofing supplies. Like I said the seal on these shingles is incredible and has a awesome warrenty.
Roofer in NY 33 years exp,These shingles have lost the seal due to age or just a low wind rated shingle, Looks to be half life Id say on a 25 yr shingle. This would really fall on the manufacturer of the shingle and either case really by now It would be pro rated..Neither would cover much at all. For the insurance company, its standard to deny most claims.Insurance should cover a repair but depending on your deductible coverage will most likely be minuscule.There are many variable to place blame. Past contractor skimping on shingle cost, recent sale without a solid home inspection and or improper initial inspection from the agent selling the property. For instance, My Insurance company told me they would not cover my home after the closing.Due to a window on my garage was not painted and my kitchen fan showed surface rust on the exterior.Ridiculous to say the least, while not noticing that my fuse panel was rusty from a constant leak every time it rained.The main line was leaking right where it enters the meter.I discovered this myself while in my basement on a rainy day.
It's pretty sketchy that this claim is denied, aside from the obvious wind damage, it looks completely hail damaged on the first side you checked out, besides now the roof is covered in chalk so now it needs to be replaced.
The chalk will actually wash away. Primary reason we use chalk to indicate damage. It’s temporary and highly effective for highlighting often difficult to see damage (for showing customers/adjusters)
Now if he were using a crayon (which roofers often use for marking off felt paper) or red chalk he would be damaging the homeowners roof.
The chalk will wash away during their next rain.
Lmfaoooo you are funny
Is this in Iowa? If the tab is creased that is damage. If it is missing that is damage. If it has been pulled through it's faster that's damage. Unsealed is not damage.
In Iowa they have a line of Sight law.
10 year Catastrophe Adjuster, I would have purchased that roof!
Central Indiana. Thanks!
It's an aged 3-tab roof... It's almost never worth filing a claim for storm damage unless the roof is quality product (architectural or higher) less than 5-10 years old. You'll pay more over the next 5-10 years in increased premiums than you saved in cost and interest getting a new roof.
To each their own standards. You are honest, never change.
I have no idea if that’s a valid insurance claim or not, but watching you bounce across that roof as if it was nothing terrified me! Lol! I’m horrible with heights. Guess that’s why I’m not a roofer. Fully enjoy your videos though.
Thanks!
Only takes a shingle to be lose, later's
This roof was tall but not steep thankfully
Thanks for assessment.
Just had one of these “eat the deductible” companies try to hand hold me through a claim to secure the sale. They didn’t go up on the roof or anything, just drone shots and “I get a free roof with no cost to me”. Quickly stopped communicating with them and found someone out of the phone book thats been in business 40 years.
Still haven’t even had the adjuster come by and I already dislike this process... :/
How did it work out?
Should be a full replacement in my area i have had customers get a whole new roof from 3 missing shingles missing.
I just did my roof, the roofer also recommended to not get the 3 tab... besides the other roof style is better. 3 tab just doesn't look as good.
My mother in laws roof had a few years of constant wind damage with missing shingles. the 2nd time the insurance company said that they would pay 3/4 of the cost to replace the entire roof or they would not cover any more damage. So we said sure. So it only cost her around $5000 to do.
I think to put a new roof on by insurance will protect homeowners and insurance agents from later problems
Adjuster should cover the roof here in North Carolina that wouldn't be a problem getting a new ROOF
Great video, but I’ll be honest I don’t think this would warrant a replacement, I guarantee it would be repair “ less then the deductible”. Also some of the shingles that were broke loose but with no creases in my experience have not been counted as wind damage but rather bad install.
Forensic architect here. Roofing/waterproofing/leak analysis specialist. I tell people don’t buy something for the warranty and never expect insurance to pay the little stuff. Use it for catastrophic events.
I like dimensional shingles. Don’t get to specify them much. Mostly do commercial roofing.
good job finding issues..... fix all broken lost stuff--- you seem honest you will find most folks in your business are not (good old boy gets the fixes)
I dont understand US methods. In the UK we use predominantly concrete tiles that weight 40 - 60 kg per m2, and we have what we call tail winds from US storms.
Unsealed tabs. We all know the edge is the weakness point. 3 tab is notorious for lifting also know for over driven nails.
Good vid.
Hope insurance pays up.
Not an expert, but I understand paying premiums and expecting a return when warranted.
The best f’ing roofing company around, your great man. I’m new into the insurance game as well and like yourself, I want to do things the right way. Great job keeping it real. Someone asked me why I wouldn’t eat their deductible the other day, that was funny.
Be well.
And great work being of value and showing the farm what they need to do! Replace!
Let's be honest, most homeowners/insureds don't know what their policy says, how insurance theoretically is meant to work, or what their adjuster/contractor is telling them. As an example, I've adjusted a roof with one-third of a square blown up with no other loose or damaged shingles. You let the insured know and they insist they want an estimate, even though they elected for a higher $5,000 deductible. You write the estimate for the insured and it comes to $400 (minimum labor and whatnot)- under deductible, no payment can be made. Well, that damage is now documented very well in a claim file, along with an estimate addressing the damage. They turn in a claim the very next year because they found 1 shingle blown off on the ground. It turns out the original damage was never repaired- it looks the exact same as last year's photos except for a few extra shingles are damaged now since they weren't part of a full roof system. Insured insists they want an estimate. Estimate comes in at $400 (minimum labor and whatnot) and there's even more roof I can't pay for the next time they turn in a claim. This very same insured may claim we've "denied" their claim- we didn't deny coverage, we just can't pay you until damage exceeds your deductible.
Some adjusters are bad- some companies, supposedly, pay their adjusters for reducing losses; however, there are some bad insureds and contractors as well.
Ideally, the insured and insurance carrier have agreed to a binding contract with each other and the adjuster has no dog in the fight. Ideally, the adjuster wants to hold the insured and the insurance carrier accountable for their ends of the bargain because they naturally feel a moral duty to interpret and apply the mutually binding agreement.
(Also a reminder: your insurance premiums go up if adjusters pay claims out too willy-nilly because every Billy-Bob starts cussing up and down and swearing they'll get a lawyer to file a bad-faith lawsuit. We should all want claims handled appropriately, not too generously.)
Sounds like insurance trying to illegally scam people by telling them wind damage will be covered and then behaving in some very dishonest ways to dodge the claims. I know what you're going to say though and that's fine. At this point the only solution is to participate in local and state govt till we get some local legal reforms done then maybe we can jail some dishonest "adjusters" that behave like this ;) ;) good luck to ya
Looks wind damaged to me, good video and good job, thanks.
Nice video. Thanks for the time spent and good advice on what wind damage really looks like (on a 3tab)
Is this the usual home roofing system they use in the US ? This is similar to what we would put on a garden shed in the UK.
Adjuster here - former contractor project manager - and did roofing sales for a while.
Unsealed shingles DO NOT constitute wind damage... period.
Pulled through nails do not "necessarily" mean its wind damage either. Theres a thing called "over nailing".
Now if i see a bunch of actual wind damage to a roof, i will 100% right up shingle that are pulled through because theres "other evidence"... but if its JUST sections that are pulled through, we have a problem.
Never been a homeowner but I love your channel I'm addicted.
Oh man, 3 tab shingles. Right away that's the problem. I don't even have to watch the video. I do gutters, and 3 tabs and T-locks are the bane of my existence. They always break off at the bottom/curl to the point that they're useless. On top of that they bleed roof rock so bad that it gets to the point that its impossible to walk a steeper pitch on because its like you're standing on marbles. This is particularly bad in the early spring when it's still cold and the shingles don't have any malleability when you're walking on them.
Nobody uses them anymore because they're so bad. 9 times out of 10 if I see a 3 tab roof it doesn't have a starter strip underneath the roof edge (most likely due to home owner installation and ignorance) so the tabs are just exposed holes that leak directly into the substructure of the house and (unfortunately) behind the gutter. If the customer isn't home 9 times out of 10 I'll end up getting a callback because their straight run of trough is "leaking" which is next to impossible to happen. It's going behind. Your roof sucks. Call a roofer.
We stopped offering to do flashing because its 1) not worth it for the cost and labour necessary, and 2) our job isn't to get water into the gutter. Our job is to get water to the ground. We'll do it in certain circumstances that require custom bent flashing, but generally that's not because of the roof itself.
Having said that, roof edge doesn't extend up an entire course of shingles, so its not even effective to stop the 3 tabs from allowing water through in the first place. Surface tension is a bitch. To add insult to injury, the piss-poor design of 3 tabs means that theres a good likelyhood that you'll break the shingle trying to install the flashing in the first place, particularly on an older roof or in colder temperatures. Granted, an older duroid roof also becomes brittle in the cold, but at least you can work with it.
Also I was told if the shingle looks undamaged then State Farm wont pay. They will not try to lift to check. I had architectural shingles that were curled up.
the angle of your camera, is scaring me to death. I am not going up on any roofs. You are a brave man :D
Holding on to my arm chair with all I got , not knocking the video just awkward filming angles maybe
Nothing scary there. The worst that can happen is that you fall down. The ground will always catch you.
@@ShadowManceri falling doesn’t hurt , it’s the sudden stop that’s gonna get ya
Some states have what is called a matching law. Keeps insurance companies from doing half a roof or repairs and roof not matching. We do in Kentucky. Had claim in April with Farm Bureau, just now getting new roof. 8 months!
If a windward nail has backed out due to wind damage, how does a contractor prove that to show the insurance company?
That is wind damage. The event has affected the bond between the shingles by coating the seal with fine dust. I was on a similar claim where the roof was replaced 2 days before a storm event and the ambient temperature was about 80 degrees with cloud cover for the 2 days. The roof didn't get hot enough to activate the seal. Then event hit, which lifted the shingles and coated the seal with sand.
Gonna call BS on that. The “bond” between tar strip and the shingle does not all that long. In the Midwest where temperatures reach both extremes, I would bet more shingles than not are not “sealed.” And this is without any type of wind event. No adjuster worth his salt would allow to repair or replace for unsealed shingles.
@@bdub8522 spoken like a person who didn't know that shingles actually have a recommended installation temperature.
@@conanbear408ok…
Great video! Indiana has some intense pitches. Boggles my mind why in snow climates metal valleys arent a bigger thing. Inflicting damage, I agree, IS the wrong way. Hope you can get preferred contractor status with a few insurance companies off this video. Insurance coverage can be GREAT money. I would try get a chance to walk roof with an inspector (USAA is best I've delt with so far) they'll start helping you on supplemental. Exactimate done properly can add as much as 40% on value of repairs in snow country. You're correct alot of states its illegal for H/O to keep insurance monies, however thats depending on state. I feel like if a company wants to play in insurance leagues ($420/sq+) you should already be in the high end roof/warranty/ventilation so you can maximize your money-for-time ratio. Wow, that was a ramble. Great video, let me know if you want a summer crew😂 az summers suck!
Insurance companies should be held more accountable
I have a buddy who is a storm chaser. He and a crew head to a certain area of the U.S. depending on the type of storm. They canvas neighborhoods carrying their blue tarps and plenty of pens to sign contracts. This particular company paid deductibles when they could, not OOP. This company did the roofing work but I couldn't tell you the quality.
In Colorado AlLL we do are insurance claims. Many adjusterrs will get pissed off if you put big chalk marks over damaged shingles, just put a small 2" mark to identify where YOU think its damaged. Marking the roof as damaged is the adjusters job NOT tje contractor's. If denied, ask for a re-adjustment then a third adjustment and eventually the insurance will give in and pay. I own a roofing company and am a licensed adjuster. Also, stay away from Allstate home owners!! I also do claims whete I am the adjuster and the potential contractor and if I get up and see a ton of chalk marks it makes it harder for my bosses to approve the roof. Don't go crazy with the chalk. Another tip. Send in 20 photos to the insurance companyband say that if this is not resolved quickly you will turn this claim over to your PUBLIC ADJUSTER and usuallly thats enough for them to go ahead and pay for the roof.
How many shingles are wind and how many are unsealed bc they never properly sealed. A lot of 3-Tab systems across the U.S. have unsealed tabs. It’s important to continue education in the industry and learn from multiple sides to master the craft of the inspection.
All manufacturers have UL & Wind uplift test/ratings. U.S. Zones and nail placement, as well as roof pitch/slope will require additional fasteners and sealant. . Age of roof is the key. Most 3 tab shingles either metric or standard. With or without fiberglass asphalt impregnated are 15y to 20y warranty of defects. Workmanship 2y to 5y. You should be aware of what roof system are buying in efforts to mitigate for damages that may occur due to your zoning. Winds of I -- 90 requirements.
Very few adjusters would do that much work doing an inspection. You did a great job/inspection on that roof
Roof or not... well, how many times did the owners open a claim and not close the claim prior. Just once would be enough for company not to cover- unless they had the receipts to show they had the work completed. I was in a auto accident in 2010 and the repair was "covered for life". Farmers was a little pissed when I called them in 2019 and said, "hey you need to fix that repair because the paint is failing". Especially when I did not live anywhere near one of their repair centers. They fought and said "who owns a auto for more than 5 years". I laughed and said "I do, its a 2003 Audi TT with less than 100k". I still have it too...
Honestly that’s more of a manufacture issue they have good flexibility but the tar strip seem to be ineffective agree three tap sucks in general
Unsealed shingles are not necessarily caused by wind. In fact in most cases the problem is caused by prolonged warehouse storage, improper installation, and manufacturing defects.
Most carriers will not cover unsealed shingles with no apparent wind damage to the mat.
Fascinating video, as you have an eagle eye for loose tiles. Insurance Companies are now exposed as highly suspect bordering on pure scamming in denying legit, much needed claims. Ty for sharing and educating the viewers.
In Florida contractors are so shady most insurance companies are leaving. So we will be left with just one state ran company.
The biggest question is: Why are they installing 3 tab in tornado alley?! I bet the product isn’t even rated for the wind speeds in that area. If they are cutting corners there, I’d be willing to bet the install is crap too. Nailing pattern? Nail placement? Overdriven nails? Etc, etc, etc
Unfortunately a lot of builders in our area cut every corner they can in material and quality. They seem to just want to get the job done and go to the bank. Not all the most.
My experience with insurance, and I've spent the majority of 35 years in roofing doing insurance claims, is that wind damage is hard to get bought. The opinion of insurance companies is that wind damage can almost always be repaired instead of a full replacement, whereas hail damage is usually a slope replacement or entire roof since hail damage can be unseen for a few years and then become catastrophic. Add this to the fact that insurance companies have been pressing state governments to roll back regulations on storm damage repairs for at least 10 years. And then there is the difference between companies, with at least one mentioned in the comments that I have had issues with for years. Take all these things together and it explains why I've gotten out of the business.
Wind damage is, by its nature, a direct impact on individual shingles. Usually easy to spot, and fairly simple to repair. This makes insurance companies only want to pay for a repair of directly damaged shingles. This is usually found to be a dollar value that is too low to be above the deductible and/or low enough to turn most roofing companies away since it's not profitable to chase $1200 jobs.
In my state, deductibles have been gutted by state regulations. So called "act of God" claims for weather damage used to be simple and straightforward and standard deductibles applied. Now, insurance companies have the right use sliding scales, percentage calculations, and undisclosed company policies to set deductibles so high that the home owner can't afford a replacement even if granted a full claim. Yes, in my state, if you pay for a policy with a $500 deductible, your hail or wind damage claim could have a deductible as high as $4000 and you wouldn't even be aware of that fact. Here, companies have no legal obligation to disclose that fact until a claim is made.
Add these things together with insurance companies moving more towards the argument that lack of maintenance, poor original install, and usable life of product (depreciation) and getting a claim here is usually not worth the time it takes to make the call.
I've been in this business a long time. I can say that poor original install IS a big part of roof damage. Poor ventilation IS a major factor in storm damage severity. Shingle life expectancy IS usually near its end when damage occurs. Then take modern roof layouts with multiple slope changes(very hard to vent properly) blind valleys (where a valley ends against a sidewall and there is a flat discharge area of varying length) and designs that specifically mix ventilation types(usually an automatic disqualification of product warranty) added to the fact that a big portion of contractors these days do horrible work..... I decided to just wash my hands of it. Over half the contractors in my state use sub contractors entirely. One company I worked for had 215 employees at 16 branches in 11 states, I was the only employee that had the necessary certifications and experience to be called a roofer. I tried to use my connections to industry representatives to raise the bar at this company by setting up tours of facilities, attending seminars and certification classes. Since that did nothing for direct sales, I was shot down immediately.
There are still good contractors out there, and you sir seem to be one. There are still insurance companies that actually provide decent service, but they a few in number.
Thank you for sharing experience. I would be curious as to state those shenanigans are in? I would say usaa been only positive insurance company cosistently.
@@azpatriot4526 my experience has been almost entirely in Kentucky. The DOI in Kentucky is a public commission that is supposed to represent the needs of the public, but my experience was that they are paid representatives of the insurance industry. In one instance, I had a customer that had 5 neighbors around every side of her house that got hail claims, her insurance refused her claim. I asked for an independent adjuster, the state sent an engineer. He agreed with me that hail damage was definitely the issue, and the state allowed the company to still refuse the claim. And USAA is a very good company to work with. I had great experiences with Shelter, Travelers, and several other very reputable companies. I won't say the names of the bad actors publicly, but just suffice it to say that they are some very big national brands.
I had hail damage a year ago. After months and months of fighting with insurance I just gave up. Well today a wind storm hit our house and this is now about 1 year 6 months after the hail and a bunch of shingles ripped off and I think it's all related to the hail damage weakening the shingles. What you you recommend?
@@shawnzilla83 Depends on which state you live in. In Kentucky, you might have luck filing a claim on the wind damage, but since you didn't succeed with hail, I'd say it's a 50/50 shot at best. Since you filed a claim on hail, some companies here in Kentucky would waive your roof even though no money was paid (that's fraud, but I've seen it happen). So, I recommend finding a quality roofer to inspect your roof, and go with his suggestion. Most likely, you will end up replacing your roof out of pocket. Another thing to consider is if you incur water damage from the roof at this point, your insurance company can(not saying they will, it's just a possibility) refuse a claim by stating that you failed to maintain the roof properly.
i'm an adjuster too.... majority of these are wind damages and warrant a replacement especially on 3-tabs
I don't care for 3 tab either, but I've seen multiple roofs where architectural shingles had pieces of them falling apart at the 17 to 20 year mark, and you can't find ANY with a 30 year guarantee. We put 3 tab shingles on a roof on our apartment house back in 1984 and they are still holding. I believe they were 50 year guarantee shingles and they are super thick 3 tabs, I wish I could still buy them over these new shingles that they claim to give you a lifetime warranty, the manufacturer will always find a way to deny you that lifetime guarantee...
There is going to be wind damage everywhere it isn't sealed down, you could argue the manufacturer or the installer is at fault but maybe the insurer should inspect the previous instalation or accept the responsibility for cheap work and products.
I'm an adjuster and I would only approve to replace the missing shingles contingent prior claims. Where is the wind damage warranting a slope and or full roof? Policies do not cover manufacturing defects, installation defects, granule loss, and or deterioration caused by age. Those nail heads popped up over time. The seals breaking that easily is not the result of mild wind event. Brittle shingles is also caused by long term exposure. 99% of what you stated is exactly why a replacement is to be denied.
Fighting state farm on my roof right now because of this same issues, hail, wind, missing shingles and two tarps on my roof. And they think they should only pay for 50 shingles on a 42 sq roof
Stay honest, maintain integrity, no matter what ALWAYS!
My opinion, that roof has been nursed along for YEARS and most of the damage you cite is looks like an aggregation of damage from moderate wind events over a period of YEARS because the seal strips are cooked. If there was a recent 50mph+ wind event, yea, there's probably on the order of a dozen damaged shingles attributable to that event that warrants spot replacement, but in no way should you convey that this roof was pristine prior to the event. Why should I have to pay higher insurance premiums for my neighbor's poor maintenance of his roof??
Oh believe me I totally understand you, I've been a retail roofer. Not an insurance chaser. I was just curious to see what others thought of the damage. We did have some really strong 80 mile an hour winds in the area earlier this year though.
@@GrandRoofingInc Ok then, my opinion based on this video is that the homeowner deserves a "repair" option unless they have a policy that says they get cosmetic matching. Doubtful the repair exceeds any deductible. I think it would be fair that the property be referred to insurance underwriting due to the condition of the shingles. Anyone arguing a full roof or full slope replacement is just using insurance as a maintenance plan to address damage from multiple events over YEARS. At the end of the day, a properly installed and maintained roof should be able to get through an 80mph wind event without damage requiring a full replacement.
@@logitech2072 how do i maintain a roof properly? I'd like to know more as a homeowner.
@@Twomps If you see lots of damaged shingles, or a leak you call a roofer that knows what they are doing. Maybe call a few so you can find a good one. And keep your gutters clean!
@@Twomps You fix things immediately after they get messed up. You don't wait for years of damage to accumulate and then try to get insurance to buy the entire roof blaming it on 1 event. Also budget a roof inspection once every year or two.
So, first of all, I got a new roof put in paid for by my insurance company. I even opted for dimensional to replace the three tab and they covered the difference. I was very lucky and I had a very good insurance company (Amica) and I truly did have storm damage (wind and hail).
But... Should I have gotten a new roof? The roof was probably 15-20 years old. Shouldn't the coverage be pro-rated based on the expected life of the material? Wouldn't wind damage be higher on an old roof vs a new one? I think this "Insurance replace roof after storm" thing is causing homeowners insurance to skyrocket. I think even if the roof is damaged by a storm that it should, at the very least, be pro-rated based on the age. New roof=100%, 10 year old=50%, 15 year old=25%, 20 or more=0%. Just my .02.
But that roof is definitely damaged (although I think the installation was also subpar) and should be covered to some extent. I'd say 100% for the bad slope and maybe 50% for the so-so slope.
As far as your insurance covering your roof when it was 20 years old and completely paying for a new one comes down to ACV and RCV. Actual cash value/replacement costs. RCV reflects a higher premium which is what you're paying for. I'm not saying be scamming with the insurance company but just expect to get the service I'm paying for when there is indeed legitimate storm damage. Typically the problem we see is homeowners having an ACV policy and mad because they're not getting a brand new roof on the insurance dime.
didn't have time to watch beyond the west slope, but as an adjuster I would replace the west slope for wind damage. FYI, anytime a roofer starts talking about wind/hail damage on other houses in the area, they've lost some credibility with me. The adjuster's opinion should be based on the roof he's inspecting and has nothing to do with how many other roofs in the neighborhood the roofer has found damage on.
This guy : it’s a brittle oxidized asphalt shingle
Insurance adjuster: what the fuck did you call me !
🤦♂️😂
I always patch up the areas with missing shingles and leave one or two missing shingles unpatched. I’ve always found that the insurance company likes to see that for some reason. I’ve only had two wind damaged claims that did not get approved out of probably close to 100 in my career so far And those that didn’t I never did patch work on the roof I left it as is and they got denied. I’m pretty sure that wasn’t just a coincidence!
my roof is damaged much more than this and my insurance company denied the claim outright. and Allstate sucks, never ever go with them.
Get a public adjuster to work with you.
He's right.....don't let them screw you! You you legit have damage a good roofing contractor or company that specializes in storm damage can be very beneficial.
You definitely need them to be present when the insurance inspector comes out.
It's your rifht to request and they have to allow ( at least in my state and most states around me)